Just so it's clear, what Rabbi Manis is presenting is not the Jewish view of sex and marriage; it is Rabbi Manis's view of sex and marriage. Granted, he bases his views on the Torah, and much of what he teaches is taken from the Torah, but there is more than one opinion about sex and marriage according to the Torah. Some of what he says would not be disputed, but some of what he says is controversial. By no means are his views unanimous.
I agree, well said. For the uninitiated it may seem rude or arrogant for someone to present his views as the Torah's views when they're hardly unanimous. But it has been a part of our culture for many centuries that when one does form his views based on his reading of the Torah as informed by the sages, He would then say the Torah says even when what he is saying is subject to dispute. And although this may seem like a very post- modern idea, He may be entirely correct even when others are arguing because it is an ancient proverb that there are 70 facets to the Torah. In other words there can be legitimate views that are in direct contradiction to each other and they are all Torah. ( The idea of multiple truths or multifaceted truths really does seem completely post-modern but it's all there in the original sources.)
Convenience breeds familiarity which breeds contempt :) He's not saying they're intentionally being disrespectful, but by putting in the extra effort to be respectful you maintain the intimacy
Remember these are guidelines from a relationship consultant. Some of it sounds extreme, but you can build up toward the goal and see how you adapt things into your daily life.
@6:00 it's totally fine! Attaining that level of true intimacy is a good goal but won't always happen. A husband and wife can totally just have fun and do it wild and kinky, whatever they both want 😄
I think his main point is that relationships require intention-meaning, yes you can scream Across the house to get ur wife’s attention bc it’s more convenient , but if you have intention, you will get up and go to her because that’s more respectful. Yes you can give her a peck on the cheek without thought, but when you have intention, your actions won’t be meaningless but rather will constantly be building your relationship. Also, divorce is allowed in Judaism, even if the couple is just unhappy with each other (meaning no abuse) but it’s definitely viewed as a sad thing, so I think many couples try to make it work before giving up on it (again, as long as there is no abuse)
17:00 an answer to your question about why the divorce rate is lower. A lot of it has to do with the family value system. Think Shabbos table and the importance of togetherness and family. They're still social pressure to remain together, (which is not a bad thing necessarily) definitely if there is abuse etc that's a different story
- 9:10 - in most Hasidic comunities, a husband never call his wife by her name, at least in front of the kids, out of respect. I never heard my dad call my mom by her name, he always called her "mother", at least not when we, the kids, were at home and I suspect not even when they were alone. - 15:30 - I don't think the numbers are low because of the reasearch before the marriage, but beacuase the relationships are build from the beginning without intimacy or even touching each other. We take the physical aspect completely out of the considerations, but focusing on the manners, the charachterisics of the man/woman we're dating. And yes, people change but you always know that there is no "happily ever after", that you have to work on that consistently, and devorcing is not the first option, you do try to work it out. For many people, the instance that we are used to these days - having everything here and now, no need to wait, makes them treat marriage the same way - if it doesn't work - let's replace it, kind of like changing you socks...
I don’t agree… By my in laws and in my parents home, they call each other by their first names when talking to each other And I come from a ultra orthodox chassidic home
So I found two of your comments/questions so interesting together. You asked if sex always has to be intimate and if it could just be fun. And then you also said when there’s no separation, the passion can fizzle out. Both of those are correct, and can be improved. One of the big benefits of the monthly separation is that renewed excitement, but “fun and crazy” can renew that excitement as well. Remember-during pregnancy and/or nursing, on certain contraceptives, or during menopause, there is no period so there’s no separation for a while. There are ways to reignite that spark without having a two week separation.
You say that we get married young and people change as a reason why divorce rates should be higher. I would argue though that the exact opposite is true. When your both young and changing together your kind of molding into one personality causing the bond to be much stronger. Whereas when you each mature and change in your own individual ways, and the try to conjoin those two personalities the bond may not be as strong. Just my thought, feel free to disagree. I appreciate you using your platform to create a healthy discourse on an otherwise ambiguous subject.
There's no argument from me there. I definitely agree that if you've already got to an age where you're "set in your ways" it can definitely be harder to find someone to grow with who also shares those values. And seeing a lot of people from my parents generation who got married at a very young age as well prosper and are still together. On the flip side, I also know a lot of people who got married earlier on, and are also divorced now, or separate. As time goes on, that person isn't who "they thought they were", and regardless of them both wanting to be married, their values or views on things changed. I can see your point about growing together and molding as one, but I also think people don't fully know what they really want at such a young age. Now you do have the benefit of the research aspect of the dating world, which I can see would eliminate a lot of the "unknown/what ifs". But even research can only go so far correct? Hence why researchers also do tests to see if the research is right. Not everything on paper is concrete. And yes, I understand that if marriage is the goal in mind, and the other "little things" can be worked on, then you could still make it. But I think that the goal/idea of marriage could also change as you get older. Now by no means, am I saying that love would solve all these issues, and I agree that love shouldn't be the driving factor for marriage. I think I was just not a fan of the way he dismissed love even being part of the equation. Again as I said, I don't think love is the icing on the cake, but rather an ingredient. But if I'm going off the way the Jewish/indian communities value marriage/dating, then love can never really be an initial factor since love takes time usually. Thanks for the comment! Really love the thought provoking Convo. As I've mentioned, I'm sure if I re-watched/listened to the video again I could come up with another 5 parts of things to bring up 😅.
@@PortuguesePai Agreed and I think your right the vetting process is helpful in this regard. What also helps is that a majority of the matches brought forth are of people with the same background/upbringing so usually the values will be similar to yours. So obviously there are upsides to both but the divorce rates among the Chassidim indicate that getting married young is ls pretty effective.
I've heard an interesting formulation from my rabbi. Sometimes you can have somebody who is with other people and hes certainly not alone but hes lonely. At other times you can have someone who is actually sitting at home alone and isn't lonely at all. So when you think about it the 2 words are lonely and lonely are often used quite differently...... Alone is about physically actually being with somebody, But lonely is used to Describe the feeling of not being connected to anybody even if you technically are in their presence....
When you need something from your spouse, go to them. They also have limited amount of energy, they may be busy or tired. In most cases, you need something, go to them, don’t call them to come to you. I think that’s what he was talking about.
Another reason why divorces are lower is the segregation of the sexes… Lots of divorces In the world aren’t cuz you’re not happy with each other it’s cuz you see someone better If let’s say a man is happily married and then sees an even more kinder,beautiful girl… he will then feel like his wife isn’t enough but if he wouldn’tve had any contact with any girls outside his family this problem would’ve never existed in first place…. Dunno if I was clear enough…
10:17 Most orthodox Jews are trained to think this way. That's why we go to these lessons. Its all accumulative respect, and its a buildup of being extra cautious with these small gestures and behaviors that are described as minuet or not important. They train their minds from a young age to speak respectfully and act with extra respect so that when you it comes down to it, every situation, conversation or intimate moment is sooo much more meaningful.
Hes not saying in most cases its meant to be disrespect. Hes just saying that if it becomes a habit it LEADS to less sensitivity in the respect even inadvertently NOT purposely. Once again, ill say, its not the norm. These are concepts that are important to keep in mind but not nec practiced literally by most people....each to their own degree.
Interesting fact: In the coved lock in time the Chasiddic divorce rate was much higher than usual. The reason might be what the Rabbi explained, when you get to familiar it might cause you to lose respect and Intimacy.
So I'm just speculating but it also is plausible that specifically people who weren't used to spending very much time together didn't really know how to relate to each other well when they were forced to spend all that time together. In other words it may be that it wasn't because they lost respect with each other due to familiarity but the fact that culturally they were ill-equipped to be together for long periods..... As they never learned the skill of being together for long period of time and enjoying each other's company. This may have been a very small percentage of the population but it could still cause a large uptick.
Marriage isn’t disposable. No one should stay in an abusive marriage. But barring abuse or major disfunction, couples usually try to stay together and work out their differences
When this first came out… I didn’t have patience to watch the entire thing…
But with you, it’s so enjoyable!!!
Rabbi Manis once said "divorce is only an option when it's the only option"
Just so it's clear, what Rabbi Manis is presenting is not the Jewish view of sex and marriage; it is Rabbi Manis's view of sex and marriage. Granted, he bases his views on the Torah, and much of what he teaches is taken from the Torah, but there is more than one opinion about sex and marriage according to the Torah. Some of what he says would not be disputed, but some of what he says is controversial. By no means are his views unanimous.
Well said
I agree, well said. For the uninitiated it may seem rude or arrogant for someone to present his views as the Torah's views when they're hardly unanimous. But it has been a part of our culture for many centuries that when one does form his views based on his reading of the Torah as informed by the sages, He would then say the Torah says even when what he is saying is subject to dispute. And although this may seem like a very post- modern idea, He may be entirely correct even when others are arguing because it is an ancient proverb that there are 70 facets to the Torah. In other words there can be legitimate views that are in direct contradiction to each other and they are all Torah. ( The idea of multiple truths or multifaceted truths really does seem completely post-modern but it's all there in the original sources.)
Convenience breeds familiarity which breeds contempt :)
He's not saying they're intentionally being disrespectful, but by putting in the extra effort to be respectful you maintain the intimacy
Remember these are guidelines from a relationship consultant. Some of it sounds extreme, but you can build up toward the goal and see how you adapt things into your daily life.
@6:00 it's totally fine! Attaining that level of true intimacy is a good goal but won't always happen. A husband and wife can totally just have fun and do it wild and kinky, whatever they both want 😄
I think his main point is that relationships require intention-meaning, yes you can scream
Across the house to get ur wife’s attention bc it’s more convenient , but if you have intention, you will get up and go to her because that’s more respectful. Yes you can give her a peck on the cheek without thought, but when you have intention, your actions won’t be meaningless but rather will constantly be building your relationship.
Also, divorce is allowed in Judaism, even if the couple is just unhappy with each other (meaning no abuse) but it’s definitely viewed as a sad thing, so I think many couples try to make it work before giving up on it (again, as long as there is no abuse)
17:00 an answer to your question about why the divorce rate is lower. A lot of it has to do with the family value system. Think Shabbos table and the importance of togetherness and family. They're still social pressure to remain together, (which is not a bad thing necessarily) definitely if there is abuse etc that's a different story
Fun fact: Bob Dylan used to hang out and study with Rabbi Manis when Rabbi Manis was rabbi in Minnesota.
Thank you for your reaction! Rabbi Manis Friedman is the older brother of Avraham Fried and the father of Benny Friedman!
- 9:10 - in most Hasidic comunities, a husband never call his wife by her name, at least in front of the kids, out of respect. I never heard my dad call my mom by her name, he always called her "mother", at least not when we, the kids, were at home and I suspect not even when they were alone.
- 15:30 - I don't think the numbers are low because of the reasearch before the marriage, but beacuase the relationships are build from the beginning without intimacy or even touching each other. We take the physical aspect completely out of the considerations, but focusing on the manners, the charachterisics of the man/woman we're dating. And yes, people change but you always know that there is no "happily ever after", that you have to work on that consistently, and devorcing is not the first option, you do try to work it out. For many people, the instance that we are used to these days - having everything here and now, no need to wait, makes them treat marriage the same way - if it doesn't work - let's replace it, kind of like changing you socks...
Beautiful response!
I don’t agree…
By my in laws and in my parents home, they call each other by their first names when talking to each other
And I come from a ultra orthodox chassidic home
So I found two of your comments/questions so interesting together. You asked if sex always has to be intimate and if it could just be fun. And then you also said when there’s no separation, the passion can fizzle out. Both of those are correct, and can be improved. One of the big benefits of the monthly separation is that renewed excitement, but “fun and crazy” can renew that excitement as well. Remember-during pregnancy and/or nursing, on certain contraceptives, or during menopause, there is no period so there’s no separation for a while. There are ways to reignite that spark without having a two week separation.
You say that we get married young and people change as a reason why divorce rates should be higher.
I would argue though that the exact opposite is true. When your both young and changing together your kind of molding into one personality causing the bond to be much stronger.
Whereas when you each mature and change in your own individual ways, and the try to conjoin those two personalities the bond may not be as strong.
Just my thought, feel free to disagree.
I appreciate you using your platform to create a healthy discourse on an otherwise ambiguous subject.
There's no argument from me there. I definitely agree that if you've already got to an age where you're "set in your ways" it can definitely be harder to find someone to grow with who also shares those values. And seeing a lot of people from my parents generation who got married at a very young age as well prosper and are still together.
On the flip side, I also know a lot of people who got married earlier on, and are also divorced now, or separate. As time goes on, that person isn't who "they thought they were", and regardless of them both wanting to be married, their values or views on things changed.
I can see your point about growing together and molding as one, but I also think people don't fully know what they really want at such a young age. Now you do have the benefit of the research aspect of the dating world, which I can see would eliminate a lot of the "unknown/what ifs". But even research can only go so far correct? Hence why researchers also do tests to see if the research is right. Not everything on paper is concrete.
And yes, I understand that if marriage is the goal in mind, and the other "little things" can be worked on, then you could still make it. But I think that the goal/idea of marriage could also change as you get older.
Now by no means, am I saying that love would solve all these issues, and I agree that love shouldn't be the driving factor for marriage. I think I was just not a fan of the way he dismissed love even being part of the equation. Again as I said, I don't think love is the icing on the cake, but rather an ingredient. But if I'm going off the way the Jewish/indian communities value marriage/dating, then love can never really be an initial factor since love takes time usually.
Thanks for the comment! Really love the thought provoking Convo. As I've mentioned, I'm sure if I re-watched/listened to the video again I could come up with another 5 parts of things to bring up 😅.
@@PortuguesePai Agreed and I think your right the vetting process is helpful in this regard. What also helps is that a majority of the matches brought forth are of people with the same background/upbringing so usually the values will be similar to yours. So obviously there are upsides to both but the divorce rates among the Chassidim indicate that getting married young is ls pretty effective.
I've heard an interesting formulation from my rabbi. Sometimes you can have somebody who is with other people and hes certainly not alone but hes lonely. At other times you can have someone who is actually sitting at home alone and isn't lonely at all. So when you think about it the 2 words are lonely and lonely are often used quite differently...... Alone is about physically actually being with somebody, But lonely is used to Describe the feeling of not being connected to anybody even if you technically are in their presence....
Love the vids
When you need something from your spouse, go to them. They also have limited amount of energy, they may be busy or tired. In most cases, you need something, go to them, don’t call them to come to you. I think that’s what he was talking about.
Another reason why divorces are lower is the segregation of the sexes…
Lots of divorces In the world aren’t cuz you’re not happy with each other it’s cuz you see someone better
If let’s say a man is happily married and then sees an even more kinder,beautiful girl… he will then feel like his wife isn’t enough but if he wouldn’tve had any contact with any girls outside his family this problem would’ve never existed in first place….
Dunno if I was clear enough…
10:17 Most orthodox Jews are trained to think this way. That's why we go to these lessons. Its all accumulative respect, and its a buildup of being extra cautious with these small gestures and behaviors that are described as minuet or not important. They train their minds from a young age to speak respectfully and act with extra respect so that when you it comes down to it, every situation, conversation or intimate moment is sooo much more meaningful.
Hes not saying in most cases its meant to be disrespect. Hes just saying that if it becomes a habit it LEADS to less sensitivity in the respect even inadvertently NOT purposely. Once again, ill say, its not the norm. These are concepts that are important to keep in mind but not nec practiced literally by most people....each to their own degree.
I love your work!!!
You should check out Skulen Medley, it has a few of the best voices of Jewish music, trust me, you won't regret it
Interesting fact: In the coved lock in time the Chasiddic divorce rate was much higher than usual.
The reason might be what the Rabbi explained, when you get to familiar it might cause you to lose respect and Intimacy.
So I'm just speculating but it also is plausible that specifically people who weren't used to spending very much time together didn't really know how to relate to each other well when they were forced to spend all that time together.
In other words it may be that it wasn't because they lost respect with each other due to familiarity but the fact that culturally they were ill-equipped to be together for long periods..... As they never learned the skill of being together for long period of time and enjoying each other's company. This may have been a very small percentage of the population but it could still cause a large uptick.
Marriage isn’t disposable. No one should stay in an abusive marriage. But barring abuse or major disfunction, couples usually try to stay together and work out their differences
We will try to keep a marriage together that’s true but if it’s abuse…. Absolutely not!!!
Even if most people don't mean it to yell in a bad way still the wife doesn't like it
So funny that he mentioned TikTok and the only reason you're reacting to this video is because of Jewish boys choir on TikTok.