Sticks and Controllers | Triple K.O.
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2022
- Welcome to this episode of Triple KO! Triple K.O. is a weekly fighting game podcast featuring Matt McMuscles, Maximilian Dood, and Justin Wong. Justin, Matt, and Max discuss their favorite (and not so favorite) joysticks, pads, and other controllers for fighting games.
Matt McMuscles
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Maximilian Dood
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Justin Wong
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Intro music by Little V Mills
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TripleKO voiceover by Gianni Matragrano
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Logo Design by Lee Mounsey-Smith
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Graphics by Deonte Martin & Brandt Cooley
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Produced by Screenwave Media
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Bruce McMurtrie Jr, Editor
www.brucemcmurtrie.com
Xander Arnot, Thumbnail Graphics
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#TripleKO #FightingGames #FGC
I can relate with Justin in trying to switch to hitbox from stick. Shaving a frame or two off certain inputs is too small of an advantage for me to unlearn 15+ years of muscle memory.
I feel you, I still have a stick but sold my Hitbox due to having to unlearn and being super pricey
I playd on pad, the Hori Fighting commander to be precise.
@@thefgcsensei4482 how is the hori pad?
@@whysosrs5534 oh I love it! the D-pad is soft and rolling motions are much easier on the hands than a regular PS pad (which has isolated d-pads). buttons are nice and clicky, mash-friendly too. its got a nice size too so you can lay it on your lap and piano the buttons, it has 6-face buttons mapped to square, circle, cross, triangle and r1 and r2 so you can get all of your buttons using only the face buttons.
@@thefgcsensei4482 dont they last little time though? Most ppl say they start to break after a few months
@@Dororostan I don't know about the newer models for next gens but I have been using mine for about 18 months and no complains yet. shoulder buttons seem flimsy tho
Max: (shows his old arcade stick) Look how big this thing is.
Matt: I enjoy my women like that but with arcade sticks not so much.
I see Matt is a man of culture.
I like my women to look like they're hiding the donkey kongas in their jeans
What's the time stamp
Poison is one of his favourite characters, after all.
The Tekken 5 cabinet was one of the coolest things I saw as a middle schooler. You could bring your own PS controller to plug into the side and play like home.
The card that could be purchased to save points and rank.
In Japan that's old,but here,,I had never seen that before.
I had tekken 4 at home. So it was really awesome practicing at home and being able to use my controller on the arcade.
Instead of having to fall due to things like,,being a kid and not having money and transportation.
I would practice all week after school, then Saturdayn Friday my brother would drive me to the mall and it felt so bad ass walking in with controller in hand, feeling so confident.
@@jetstreamdefalpha5411 lolz me and my buddies did the same. I remember bringing an original PS controller (no dual shock). The locals were looking at me like, “you still have that?” I did pretty good considering the other good players were in their 20’s.
My hands hurt after playing pad for more than an hour. Stick hurts my wrist thanks to several injuries over time to my wrist. Hitbox for me at this point is more of an accessibility thing since it is the only way I can grind a fighting game and not have pain.
no no its a necessity in your case sounds like
I think hit box started because of emulator players. I learned third strike on keyboard but never pursued it seriously. This was back on winkawawks
Pain is your body saying you're getting Good. That's what I told myself.
Take care of yourself
@BT Grave I made my own like 6 years ago because of that reason. Something like a brooke board makes it pretty easy to do.
The point they made about stick snobbery is so true based on my experience. I own arcade sticks, but I am a pad player at heart. I remember being belittled after beating people that used sticks. The controller misconception is a real thing, as some fgc players think they are getting a handicap by using a stick.
The Mad Catz fight pad for Ps3 and Xbox 360 was so satisfying to use . Just the feeling of a dpad and analog stick in one 👌
I wasn't even into fighting games until 2 years ago. I bought a stick because I saw one by chance. I absolutely don't regret it. Only had to learn fighting games once. I currently have 4 sticks so I recommend them
My first Arcade Stick was the Pelican Universal Stick (PS2, XB & GC) back in 2004. Still have it to this day.
I've been a pad player for 31 years, I have always wanted to jump to use fighting sticks, but I just can't make the conversion yet. I will soon though in a great way, I'm getting the Marvel vs Capcom 2 arcade machine from Arcade1UP. Great episode as always guys!
@@robertmanes9333 jajajaja of course I did! To play every single KOF entry but I sucked at it 😅 I have always been better with the 🎮
Just wanted to say you guys hit a new stride with this podcast!! I'm dying over here laughing crying... my fav of the whole series so far!! That whole section when you guys go in on fake inputs and daigo's wall ;D im just dying its so gooooooooood
calm down
I really enjoyed this one. Awesome as always guys!! I appreciate the content. I played with all of the above getting into hitbox as well the Mpress is pretty dope.
Definitely one of my favorite episodes along with the tournament stories episode. Learned to play on Xbox 360 Controller because of the sturdy joystick. Bought a SFIV stick like Matt did and I got mediocre at it, but the experience of learning stick was one of a kind.
These days, I play Strive on PC with a Switch Pro and I really like it.
Like the Nintendo switch pro controller?
Loving this! I built my first stick around 2002 for MAME emulation. It used HAPP parts and I soldered wires to a PSX game pad breadboard!
Great episode! This is a topic that needs to be discussed more often.
That N64 arcade stick and "Homer's car" controller look nuts xD
Another great podcast!
Brilliant video guys
Listened to this while waiting for my commissioned case for my first custom arcade peripheral to be done. Loved hearing the conversation about different types of arcade sticks. I personally went from pad to stick to hitbox and am now going to be switching to a Shiokenstar all button layout (like hitbox but with 30mm attack buttons like a regular arcade stick). I'd say that each type of peripheral has its distinct advantages and ultimately it's up to what you are comfortable on. I also agree with Justin that every older fighting game I have tried (aside from Marvel 2 coincidentally) feels weird on hitbox and I prefer stick for those.
First arcade like stick I used was a sega genesis one that my uncle had. Literally played every game I could with that thing. Hell I even went to my local retro game store to find one and bought it just to have one again.
I still have my Hori Real Arcade Pro 3 from 2009. Still using it to this day on PC.
Love the channel, I think a good topic for next would be different fighting communities, how the scene has changed, what makes a community successful and what we would like to see in the upcoming future of the sport. Would also love to hear how games like League, dota ETC have such high paying rewards compared to any FG.
Matt's stone-faced "Fuckin' legend" was incredible
Would y’all ever have Brian F on as a guest? He seems pretty down to earth and analytical.
There was a great discussion with RobTV, Brian, Max and a few others a couple weeks back. Would love to see either Brian or Rob join as a guest on TKO.
I have a couple of those 15th Anniversary Sticks! redid the button's and the HAPP stick! still love it.
As someone who grew up with controllers (arcades never been a big thing where I live) I am more inclined giving a hitbox a try. Never felt really confident using a stick but like the heft and size of them.
I bought a stick back in 2021 not because I thought it would make me better, but because I thought I would enjoy it more than pad or keyboard, and I'm so glad I did. Over the years, I've played fighting games on pad, keyboard, and stick (since I have a local arcade my friends and I go to), so the adjustment period when I finally bought my own was almost non-existent, and it made me enjoy fighting games and get invested in them even more. It's like driving a manual sports car versus a dual clutch automatic super car, the newer one might technically be better, but the kinetic experience of the older one is more satisfying. Stick or die, baby, I love it.
I play on keyboard because I had no controller nor fight stick available. So for me, using a hitbox is mostly for comfort. For a VERY long time I only played older, emulated games because that's all I had.
Same here. I mostly moved to PC so I’m getting a hit box for sf6 being my first real fighting game I grind
Keyboard fgers where you at, been playing fgs with keyboard since SFIV and never looked back (outside of Soul Calibur but I never treated SC serious lol)
I started on pad, moved to the fightpad in ssf4, and then I went to stick thinking it would make me better. It did, but only because it motivated me to keep working on my game. I got more into thw game than ever cuz I had this sick ass fightstick. It was the same white one shown earlier haha
the motivation that getting sticks and hitboxes is underrated. while there isn’t any straight advantage to it the controller u use the fun is definitely helpful.
Everyone should use a controller that makes them wanna play the game more
Awesome content
For physically disabled players like myself Hitboxes are a godsend! Thanks to the dude in these comments who recommended them to be a couple months back!
Great video guys ty 🎉
I didn’t play any games on stick, didn’t have an arcade to play at. But back when KOF 13 came out I fell in love with arcade sticks. It’s been freaking tough adjusting from a controller. But man it feels good playing arcade stick.
I've been playing on pad ever since I've started playing fighting games, but whenever I find a machine out in the wild I love using stick, both are really enjoyable.
I was waiting to hear gamecube controllers mentioned for smash and also N64 controllers haha good episode
I’ve been a pad for such a long time. The one time I did try stick, I think I was just too comfortable with pad.. button inputs, directional movement.. things like that. Muscle memory, as all 3 said throughout the vid. But, I still wanna get a stick.
Me too
We are in the weird dimension stuck between Pad, Stick, and hitbox.
I'm a big fan of big circular d-pad controllers. Currently I use the 8bitdo m30 as my main controller, the feeling of rolling my thumb on that is just too satisfying
Thank you Justin, Matt, and Maximillian for this interesting discussion.
Unfortunately I'm an exArcade crawler (much like yourselves) so when my sons friend brought over a hit box and I had a chance to play on it, that experience threw me since it felt so foriegn.
I was lucky in that my first joystick was a custom job (made from wood with a bat stick and cherry switches) that my girlfriend at the time got me for my birthday to play my various fighting games for Sega Saturn on. It was a massive and unweildy behemoth but it completely replicated the arcade experience (which I had grown up on) and I spent hours playing FFRBS, Vampire Savior, and VF2 on for hours.
Was wondering if you ge ntlemen would be interested in discussing the developing discussion of a possible new entry to the CvS/SvC series of games due to the now friendlier than ever attitudes of SNK and Capcom towards one another. Maybe discuss your hopes and dreams as well as who should and should NOT return to these games. Great appreciate taking this under consideration.
Hey! That 15th year SF arcade stick is the one I use! I did change out the board and the stick and the buttons, but that's the body!
I don’t understand people tryna gatekeep what controllers people use or are legal/illegal in tourneys. If whatever advantage a HitBox gives the user was that significant, then every pro player would’ve switched by now.
People acting like a HB is gonna turn you into Daigo or SonicFox or something. The FGC gods would be gods on whatever controller they used. Fighting games go way beyond controllers. People should use whatever feels most comfortable for them.
Seconded, it all takes practice regardless of what you use. I used Dpad for years until just switching to keyboard earlier this year and I ain't ever looking back lol! But does that mean I can scrub a tourney, hell no! I'm still a goober newbie but at least I found something I like that makes the game more enjoyable for me!
loved this discussion. I'm very much an arcade stick fan and always will be, but also because I play shmups and belt scrollers along with fighters. Though I prefer pad with some games like tekken/SC and NRS. I've tried Hitbox and it is fun to mess with, but I rather use my time just developing my intermediate level play to something better as opposed to refocusing all that time into a new set of controls.
Feinting button presses is definitely real even with pad. In competitive smash ppl pretend to tech by tapping the shoulder buttons without pressing them all the way in. Makes a nice big noise that makes players react incorrectly
I had a SF4 stick close to launch for the Xbox and I loved that thing! Wish I still had it so I could put it on the wall in my ghetto game room.
As someone who uses multiple controllers for different games or characters, it is really just a matter of preference. I started on pad, and I wanted to switch to stick because my thumb kept getting torn up on the PS4 controller. Now I play WASD on Tekken, maybe with easy input too, stick for most everything else, and pad for some anime games like DBFZ and UNIST. Enjoy your games, and if you play the game using a literal potato as long as you are playing the game I see nothing wrong with it.
yeah they all have their ups and downs, but nothing major enough to warrant anything being banned or strong enough to carry someone through a tournament because that’s just not how this works
Stick is just fun, reminds of being in the arcade back in the day, plus I prefer the button lay out, smacking the buttons is so fun!
I swapped my stick with an ODIN wasd mod, I really like it. I am way more comfy w a pad but still hop around between stick and wasd mod sometimes.
As someone who grew up on control playing anything but fighting games. I found it hard to use the d pads when I started playing fighting games. It just didn't feel right. I would use the analog. I could do anything but block consistently and I had a hard time finding rhythm with just my thumbs. I switched to an arcade stick and everything became easier for me. It became easier to block and do combos and it cleaned up my inputs. It just made sense to me even though I didn't grow up with arcades. Now that I play mostly on PC with keyboard and mouse I have been thinking of trying a hit box. It really just comes down to whatever is comfortable to you. The fact that you have options now to find what your comfortable with is a good thing
I like how they all say the hit box won’t take you to the next level but go on about how easy it is to do the hardest moves in fighting games with it lol love the podcast, hate the hit box! Keep it up boys
Luckily the top level of almost all fighting games is typically defined by decision-making and not tech skill.
pretty sure they were saying that it doesn’t matter at the highest level, now we all know you aren’t at that level so i’m sure you have a hard time against them, but you probably have a hard time against most people.
It goes to shows how much a group of senior citizens the fgc is that hitbox is being talked about now, when I got a hitbox on my PS3.
My first stick was the super sf4 madcatz stick that I used to play umvc3. That stick has now been defiled into an elphelt stick by a good friend of mine after I gave it to him, and used stick for a while afterwards. Now I'm rocking a hitbox because all my sticks are broken and thought it might be fun to get into a new type of controller.
Copilot on xbox and windows allows for some cool combinations. You can use a controller in your left hand to use analog stick or dpad, and then use arcade stick for button inputs with your right hand. Would be cool to see one of you do a video on it.
I made the switch to hitbox a few years ago and I really like it. As someone who started on stick on street fighter 4 (because I LOVE arcades), I feel like my execution has gotten SO much cleaner. That being said, I will forever use controller for games with block buttons (and no holding back to block) like Mortal Kombat lol.
I enjoyed this episode of My First Stick
Im a pad player, but I wanted the 8 arcade buttons. Thumb-pro is a good option. I end up designing my own and still improving it for better ergonomics.
I always struggled with arcade sticks, so I always used fight pads as I found it easier to do my directional inputs on a d-pad. I was never as good as someone who played with a stick but I was definitely able to put up a better fight than if I was to use a stick. The SF4 (Ryu) fight pad was my sh!t lol.
I did place 8th in a Melee tournament with the chainsaw controller once, but I didn’t get much ass.
i played keyboard for a year before getting a mpress hit box an its a very smooth transition so if ur thinking of getting one start with keybaord
I dont know where it ended, but I remember i had a PS2 Street Fighter Ken Holo Pad. So sick!
New fighting game players also often start on keyboard! I switched from pad to keyboard really quick after hurting my thumbs on my ps2 pad
This was a great episode I want to know matt and Justin's reaction to the optimal potemkin hitbox because I'm just lost in thought looking at it.
Ascii made a teardrop style arcade stick for the Sega Saturn. Sega had a Saturn Fightstick. Both were pretty good for thier time.
Man, i had the Ken PS2 15th anniversary fightpad, it was an amazing controller but somehow the D-Pad made it too hard to slide your finger through it? , i had to get used to it, but once i did it felt like a pretty good one.
It was my preferred controller for CVS2 on Gamecube - using an adaptoid of course - Second preferred was a Logic3 arcade stick for Gamecube
Justin saying "It's so american." was so funny. Also Matt a real one for saying "I enjoy my women like that."
11:33 As a veteran of the Arcade days, hearing it called 'Boomer Shit' reminds me of the Smash Community calling motion inputs for characters like Ryu, Ken and Terry Bogard "Boomer Inputs" and that shit grinds my gears.
Though it also explains why they don't shower, since it requires an input to turn a shower on and off.
lol nice
In this podcast it's being *lovingly* referred to as "boomer shit". Not sure about everyone in the Smash community but competitive players are cool with the FGC character inputs for sure.
As a man born with a deformed hand I find playing on stick far easier for me (cept when it comes to doing two-button inputs like Focus Attacks, then again I could just use macros lol), however I still struggle with doing clean motion inputs consistently, which is something Max pointed out later in the vid. Hopefully me investing in a Hitbox would help mitigate those human errors X3
Amazon sells hitboxes for $150 I use it as my backup. If you get it you might want to change the start/select buttons but it’s very easy to do
So, I'm a total casual, total noob. Only use controllers. Pads. That mechanical dpad Matt had is sick. I never knew those existed. I'm getting one. Thanks guys, super fun and super interesting. You guys should have your own daytime talk show. I'd watch the shit outta that shit. Be well, homies.
You can tell how casual I am about fighting games when this is the first I'm seeing of the Hitbox. Seems neat, at first it seems odd and alien until I remember how much I've had to play fighting games on emulator back in the day and needing to haphazardly use a keyboard as a controller. It was pretty tough to do but still do-able. I had a friend who actually got pretty good at it though he was already seasoned in the genre. I still have the Dictator version of the Fight Pad that I played the hell out of SSFIV with though I haven't had much reason to use it since. I personally have never been good with sticks and find the precision of my thumbs far more reliable than the coordination of my wrists.
Love my original MadCatz Tatsunoko and Akuma SF4 Fight/Arcade sticks, I have the SF4 fight Pad, it's better than what people give it credit for.
I use a Hexagonal Gate, personally, I hate Square.
I still have my Street Fighter 4 Ken fight pad from mad catz. Only used it a few times.
i just bought an snes c&l championship stick that has original happ parts from the 90s. it seems like it was made with off the shelf parts, but its pretty cool having an american setup
I had two 15th aniversary akuma gamepads, i love them, know i use an 8bit do m30. Creat pad
I'm getting arthritis and a repetitive strain injury, definitely gonna look up the ergobox
yeah in my case I recently nabbed a fightstick for my PS5 because I fell in love with the feel while playing at a convention setup for DBFZ that just had sticks permanently plugged in (followed by a fellow con-goer teaching me SamSho via his own stick. This was all pre-COVID) & finally got the budget to nab one this year. Still getting some of the muscle memory down for my games since I grew up on controllers but for 6 button fighters it's so nice not having to rely on L1/R1 for heavies/assists. KI on my Xbox notwithstanding because it's a PS specific stick. Hitboxes are something I get the appeal of & appreciate from an accessibilty standpoint, but after having only keyboard as an option when I first got Skullgirls on PC... yeah no those quarter circle & full circle inputs were hell for me.
My first Fight stick wasn't even really a fight stick, it was the NES Advantage, famously used by the Ghostbusters to pilot the Statue of Liberty.
This is lowkey one of the best podcasts around. I would love Thorgi's Arcade for a cross-over.
Bruh I need to see that clip of the lil mac. Guy gotta be legendary
6:45 I saw what max is talking about with Shanks, Spain’s best dbfz player. He was out of top 8s for over a year because stick caused injuries so he had to switch to pad. People may say pad is better than stick for the “cheats” it offers but you’re still are learning a new input method at the end of the day. I myself have been playing crossup for about 4 months and I rarely ever use the extra buttons in high stakes situations.. the muscle memory is just not there compared to the stick portion
@user-ek9bi8io3z only saw this now
I had 2 NES sticks and a Genesis stick (which I loved). I'm thinking about getting a hit box in the hopes that I can get rid of old, bad habits that I picked up on pad.
Super interesting discussion. As someone who only ever played fighting games at home with my brothers - no friends or tourneys - I was always a button masher.
I recently made my own fightstick and it's actually getting me to learn fighting games properly which is another advantage. Of course I don't have the muscle memory of a pad for decades, but I was never good with pads in fighting games in the first place
I played on the floor when I had that street fighter stick. It was massive.
Mann... Beating Stick snobs in SF4 used to be my hobby, especially when I was studying game design. I personally have preferred pad all my life, but to drill into stick snobs that it isn't the controller that makes you better I'd beat them with my pad, then I'd beat them with a standard USB qwerty keyboard and on the rare chance they'd let me I'd beat them with their own fight stick, but sometimes I'd also bring my friend who is way better than me at most fighting games and lose (not on purpose) just to prove that the controller of choice isn't a deciding factor in who wins
Around 52:00 a similar thing happens in Zelda : A link to the past speedruns where you climb stairs while holding up and down at the same time using a "sawed" d-pad. Since the game is on SNES, it never hit the devs what would happen since it's supposedly one direction at a time.
The problem is to know what is within the limits of the devs' vision of the game in order to ban whatever arcane tech you find with different controllers.
I just want to learn Hitbox ahead of SF6, but my only PS5 options are either expensive or sold out.
Build one yourself with a raspberry pico, its also universal (pc, android, switch, PS and XB).
I just built one on a suitcase format for carrying around and a smaller more ergonomic one.
If you really dont know how to make one, buy from someone who knows but it will most likley be more expensive.
How much PS5 hitbox cost?
@@givemorexpmost go from around like 200 USD (kinda average) and up so they can get a little pricey.
I started playing fighting game competitively during SF4 era, I remember playing it on my iphone and then deciding to try the original game, I downloaded vanilla SF4 on Pc and started playing casually with my friends with keyboard & controller
When I got the chance to get a new gen console I did my research and found that most top players played on Xbox so I went with that just for SF4 (super sf4).
eventually I decided to try arcade sticks because I thought they looked cool and all the pros were using them
Luckily for me I went to a store and there were both madcatz sticks the white one and the red one covered in dust and he was selling it cheap, and that's how my journey started as a competitor..
We were all casuals at one point
Every time I watch this pod, I feel like I'm 7 and I'm back in the Arcade playing SF II Champion Edition
I still think the SEGA Saturn pad is my favourite way to play fighting games.
@1:09:59 -- That was a close one, Max.
I've been wanting to try a hitbox, but I've got carpel tunnel and imagine it'll be hell on my wrists/forearms. It's why I've gome back to pad, it's much less stress on the ligaments.
Justin, I see that Itzy wallpaper back there...
I see you, brother.
KOF is really hard on pad and Hitbox.
for KOF players, I only know ViolentKain that uses Hitbox. I can see the new players use pads, and the old heads fightsticks.
I had a SNES arcade stick. Had the rapid fire switches and slides. That's how I learned to play SFA
Growing up in a broke and strict household, i never got the chance to buy consoles or visit arcades. What fighting games i did play were all played on emulator with a regular ass keyboard with the arrow keys for movement, which is why i never learned how to play with a stick. I can play mixbox just fine, probably will get used to playing hitbox given an hour or two, but i just can't with sticks.
is there a full version of the intro/outro music somewhere? I love it.
Haha, I had an Arcade Shark for KI Gold back in the day!
Man, id like to have a stick for fighters. Love to try it one day. Oh well
I was never able to play fighters well with a controller. I remember buying that Dreamcast stick along with Marvel vs Capcom. I still have the box to it even. For PS2, I got the Shadowblade stick released by Interact (?) to play Tekken 4 at home. It wasn’t a very good stick, but still way better than playing with a controller.
I also have that SF 15th Anniversary stick that Max showed, though I never used it. It’s still in the box. Matt briefly showed the Blanka 6-button controller. I never had that, but I had Ryu, Ken, Akuma, and Chun Li - I’m not even sure what system(s) they worked on since I never opened those. EDIT - ok so Max showed them right after I typed this. So they were also part of the SF 15th Anniversary stuff.
I’ve taken a really long break from fighters, but I last used Qanba sticks. I definitely plan on playing Street Fighter 6 from release day.. so I’ll want to do quite a bit of research to make sure I start with a quality stick.
It's funny when Justin mentions pad players not being noticable about doing a big move. I have a friend who literally can't do a full circle motion with Zangief, he puts his whole palm on the analog stick and just starts spinning it hoping a move comes out! So we always know lol
As long as you can't hold 4+6 and block crossups easy, I have no beef with hitboxes. I play stick, pad and hitbox, but I agree with Max and Justin about bringing back the arcade experience makes sticks special for me.
being able to block has nothing to do with it, and socd cleaning already has that impossible to do
I’d like to add that it’s very well possible that the beginning of the rise of Arcade sticks in the late 90s and early 2000s was because the Dreamcast controller was terrible for Fighting games.
Before that most game controllers were fairly useable.
Snes, Genesis, Saturn, PS1 etc. Then when the DC came along it was the first system to come with a controller that’s painful to use for fighting games. Therefore people began searching for better ways to play them.
I'm a SNES and PlayStation 1-2 pad player. I always wanted to switch to arcade sticks because that's how fighting games were made for in the arcades. Now my left thumb doesn't hurt anymore and I'm happy with my arcade stick. 😂👍🏼 I wasn't an Atari gamer, SNES was my first gaming, therefore I would never play on keyboard, hitbox, etc. And I still have to play pad sometimes because of games like DBZ XenoVerse or so using D-pad plus analog sticks. You don't have both on Arcade sticks.