This is so true that this being a top comment is becoming cliché lol dude's a legend. In the us, especially, where all the coverage is pretty sparse and mostly behind streaming pay walls.
ODD MAN RUSH IS THE BEST HOCKEY RUclipsR! SHANNON IS JUST THE MOST PROLIFIC!... See what I did tharharhar?... I even managed to be completely unoriginal just like most yammering RUclips/Twitter combatants, I almost literally just copy-pasted their names over "Lemieux" and "Gretzky" in the classic "Penguins fan" response to the "greatest player" debate... (In all seriousness, though, I love both channels. The only reason I'm not subscribed to this one is because my subscription page is already an unbearable mess mostly because of two channels I follow that post more-or-less daily, and another that posts on alternating days. Adding a channel that posts several times a day would make it impossible to sort through.)
@@WaddickLawnCare OK. A) That's incalculable to me. I've always kept my sub feed small, and except for those three I mentioned, they drop vids between once a month and once a week, including livestreams. B) How many of those do you actually watch in a day? C) Do you have the kind of job where you can get away with watching RUclips while pretending to work? Because I don't. Not even close.
When I think of "choked", I think of a team where the pressure is clearly getting to them, and it's affecting how they would normally play. For example, Marner shooting the puck over the glass multiple times, causing many playoff penalties. He was very scared to get hit, despite having a lot of time to aim that clear. Or I think of a team that is just making lots of stupid mistakes at critical times in the game and collapsing after getting scored on rather than brushing it off and sticking to the gameplan. However, I don't think Matthews having low scoring is a choke because Danault really is that good at shutting down top players, and he did it all playoffs. In this case, I'd say the depth on Toronto was just not good enough to overcome this, and missing Tavares and having the lines all screwed up and having too many rookies without NHL experience playing on those lines was the real factor in them losing. I'd also put a lot blame on Keefe for not adjusting well.
@@Just_a_Man780 It's pretty easy to imagine how that would have changed things though - Toronto was getting their asses handed them in the face-off circle and they only needed 1 goal in games 5 or 6. He was a point per game player and one of the best at taking face-offs in the entire NHL. Even in this season, he is #7 in faceoff wins and has the 2nd best face-off percentage in the entire league. He was also on the top player play unit. On top of this, the bottom 3 lines all got changed around as a result, which meant an injured Foligno or Spezza or Kerfoot had to play 2nd line center, which basically mean the bottom 2 lines were screwed and unpracticed. Make no mistake, it IS Toronto's fault for not solving this depth problem, but it would have been less of an issue if Tavares was there. Notice that Toronto has 6 centers and 8 defensemen and better scoring depth this season. Dubas learned.
You are the future Hockey Guy. I don't agree with everything you say, but heck, your coverage is above and beyond the mainstream money pits that promote one narrative over another. Saying this, Go leaf Go!
I know a guy who got fired on his first day: underground miner (operator); got lost, twice, on his first shift and ignored every safety regulation you can think of trying to get himself back to the surface. Sometimes the boss can tell that you're not in the right place.
Now that one makes sense Phillip. Anyone in St Louis remembers though when we acquired Pronger for Shanahan the people were in revolt for years. Chris got pretty damn good I think we did okay there. What sucked was we offered them Joseph and Brind'amour. Hall of famers everywhere and idiot arb judge has to take shanny.
@@WaddickLawnCare definitely a bit greedy to go for Stevens then shanahan. You got to admit if Detroit did that we'd have been annoyed. The punishment for Stevens was way overboard though can you imagine getting five number one picks right now for anything?
@@daftelf yes if you offer sheet a player over certain value it’s 4 first round picks? What other punishment can they get for doing it so close together that they didn’t even have the picks they offered sheeted. Seems logical to just take more picks considering St. Louis didn’t want the picks anyway lol
Or were they a dynasty is another debate one could argue. I think you can have more then one dynasty at a time. Look at avs n Detroit n New Jersey in the late 90’s to early 2000’s
Gretzky wouldn't be able to hang in this era, thats why we can't compare that stuff. a lot of the stars from back in the day would get dusted in this era, lets just be real for a second lol.
Best RUclipsr: THG definitely in my top five! Mostly because he's not afraid of a hockey conversation. Thanks again for another good video popping up exactly when we needed a mental break.
"Goals should be disallowed only if: (1) an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper's ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal." Ha... I was expecting more like 8 pages of rules...
Goaltender Interference Rules 1) You can't just be up there and just doin' an interference like that. 1a. Interference is when you 1b. Okay well listen. An interference is when you interfere the 1c. Let me start over 1c-a. The skater is not allowed to do a block to the, uh, goalie, that prohibits the goalie from doing, you know, just trying to save the puck. You can't do that. 1c-b. Once the skater is in the offensive zone, he can't be over here and say to the goalie, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna block your view! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that. 1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to make a goal and then don't leave the crease, you have to still leave the crease. You cannot not avoid the goaltender. Does that make any sense? 1c-b(2). You gotta be, skating motion out of the crease, and then, until you just leave it. 1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have your stick up here, like this, but then there's the interference you gotta think about. 1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Interference hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X. 1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse. 1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic... 1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. An interference is when the skater makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the goalie and the crease... 2) Do not do an interference please.
@@jeffreym.8957 would a screen count as interference according to that then? because with a players ‘positioning’ they are impairing the goalies ability to ‘defend his goal’ am i interpreting that wrong?
@@goavs7438 only if the goalie is in the crease, and so is the screening player. Wich is why if the skater is in the crease the goalie will bump the player to get the refs attention
The "when is a player a bust?" debate I think it also has something to do with expectations. You won't hear people discuss players being a bust for those drafted after the 3rd round for example.
Fantastic idea for a video Shannon! Really love to hear your takes on all of these common hockey talking points. Wishing you and yours health and happiness.
In terms of how to call a game, I agree that it SHOULD be by the book, but I also recognize there's some subjectivity. So long as it's consistent, I'm usually fine with it. The things I look for: if it's a call in the first period, it's a call in the last 5 minutes of the 3rd or OT, if it' a call in November, it's a call in the playoffs. Consistent and don't let situations change the definition.
Agreed with pretty much all except one point. You absolutely, 100%, no doubt in my mind compare players across eras. I HATE when people say "its a different era you cant compare". To me it shows a lack of intelligence or willingness to do the hard thinking that is involved. Sure comparing across eras is definitely harder, but its 100000% possible and I think isn't done enough.
But they aren’t even the same sport? You had goons in the 70-80’s who only suited up to protect players. And to say the skill level hasn’t changed is kind of immature seeing as Gretzky has said that!
Growing up I always had fun discussions about Hockey. It wasn't until the internet and coming into contact with "fan bases" that I started to see some of the horrible toxicity in discussions. It's off putting and honestly probably bad for the sport. That said. yes, Hull's skate was in the crease.
In regards to the Best Ever Anything, one of the funniest experiments ever done was trying to find out what the smallest thing that could create an Us vs Them reaction in people and the answer was "Literally Anything"
I was on the edge of my seat, thinking you wern't going to mention Jágr in goal scorer argument, i'm shure I'm not the only kid who remembers him as goliath.
You deserve a lot of credit for not bumping teams up or down for injuries and such. It has been shown over and over again that such manual corrections are wildly inaccurate. Psychologist Paul E. Meehl coined "a broken leg rule" where only something really catastrophic and decisive (like a broken leg) should be taken into account.
On the whole “is this player a bust” I initially thought to wait after 5 years, I supposed 3 years is enough for some. I will be willing to stretch it “anywhere between 3-5 years, depending on the team’s situation, maybe.” Like, a rookie trying to make a team that’s already loaded for a cup run, maybe a shorter leash of 3 years. Or trade the player after that window to another team where the player will have more opportunity to show their talents. For a team rebuilding, give them 5 years. The young player on a rebuilding team will have more opportunities to prove they can be positively consistent to the team.
I have never heard the term "dynasty" be given any objective qualifiers such as your 3 cups in 5 years. It's simply a word that means long reign of power. Regardless of whether the Lightning win another cup, they're just unequivocally a dynasty.
If you do another one of these videos, do a topic on how awards are. Should there be a off/def defenseman award? Should there be a best overall player awards aside from the Hart(MVP)?
People just want to think that have inside knowledge on the best ever ice cleaners, its embarrassing. That being said, the one in Montreal is siiiiiiick
For all the questions where there are "right now" and "all time" answers, Nolan Ryan is perhaps the best example in all of sports. Yes, he set the single-season strikeout record, but he never won a Cy Young because he was never really close to being the best pitcher in his league, eclipsed by guys like Palmer and Valenzuela. But an argument could definitely be made that he's one of the best to ever play the game because he was so consistently good for so long.
Good vid as usual . Because you are wise (risk aversive ) you have not gone through the hell Alyssa Hope has recently gone through . Your content is great ! (I don't watch the previews/ reviews ) keep doing what makes you the most amount of money . I give your 4 cats and bunny rabbits a thumbs up ! Yvonne is great , and I think you made a smart choice including her ! GOOD HEALTH TO YOUR FAMILY .
As a Leafs fan I feel like any discussion about the Leafs with a fan of another team is just a waste of time because they think the Leafs will never accomplish anything til the end of time. I'm sure this applies to other teams as well, but it feels like everybody either loves or hates the Leafs these days
It’s largely due to the medias, making them unbearable to play against. Matthews matthews matthews marner marner nylander matthews matthews matthews marner marner nylander “random player doing well on the opposing team” matthews matthews matthews etc etc, that’s all you hear when your team plays them. Makes you wanna blow your brains out. And often times you hear about them even when you aren’t even playing them, like cmon
As a non-leafs fan, I think a lot of it has to do with a portion of your fan base, that just boggles my mind. Like when Shannon wore a Florida jersey in a news video becuse however you spell his name set a record for highest assists total ever and dude left a nasty comment becuse he didn't wear a Mathews jersey. But hopefully for your sake and especially Steve Dangle's sanity, I hope Toronto goes on a run this year.
'Has their Cup Window opened or closed' For me, it's the same as asking 'Can they make it to the Conference Finals?' More often than not, the East is stronger than the West or vice versa. Being able to make it to the third round is the least I expect a team with their wondow 'open' to do.
The one thing is with divisional playoff setups, you can have the two best teams meet in the first 2 rds( or 3) I like your thinking of conference final , but even then say, TB meets Fla in 2nd rd , with a strong contender in Tor, two solid teams maybe even three don't make it out of rd 2
In the current climate of online discussion, where everything is THE worst or THE best and people's view are either pitchblack or angelic white, hearing someone with a logical greyscale is always refreshing to me. THG, keep up the good work!
It’s always fun to pick your favorite / best scorers, hitters, d-men, goalies, etc. I’m enjoying the hype around the top goal scorers this season. Coming back to hockey after a long absence, it’s been a fun season.
Blues cup window closed after Petro left. But opened this season after Kyrou’s strong performance last year and him following it up this year with an even better one, along with Thomas elevating his playmaking abilities
Choke vs outplayed In the playoffs , each round becomes a game of inches, that extra puck battle win , that extra save, that timely goal I remember High powered Montreal playing North Stars and a hot goalie Melouche, (numerous injuries Mon) deny them a chance at 5 SC in a row Det dominates Anaheim but can't solve J.S. Giguere Van upsets Cgy in tough 7 gm series, goes to cup finals It's so tight in playoffs, both teams fighting hard
IGreat video! think a rebuild is over when a team becomes competitive year in and year out. They are a threat to make the playoffs every season, or do damage in the playoffs. For trading a 1st, I think its either when a team feels ready to go deep in the playoffs or if a stud player suddenly becomes available that no one expected.
The Capitals last 2 GM’s have always seemed to draft best available BUT the best player available then gets traded for Erat and a hot dog cart because GMGM think’s he can’t skate. 🤦🏼
One debate you can use that gets really intense is "Gary Bettman is great/ bad for hockey" I think he has made the game better. Fan friendly rule changes. Salary cap. Getting more eyes on the sport expanding into markets etc
A players’ greatness has to be assessed using only his own era as the metric. Comparing eras can have some relevance but speculating how a dude would do in some other era is pointless.
The debate about drafting the best player available often misses a crucial factor: Determining who the BPA is a lot easier with the 1st pick than the 71st. The later you go in the draft, the harder it is to determine the BPA.
Absolutely agree with your take on "he's a bust". Saw a stupid amount of comments saying this about Jack Hughes and now he's developed into a potential franchise guy. Not every player is going to be McDavid
I disagree with the point in power rankings. There is already something to measure the sum of game results. It is called standings table. Power rankings should focus in the potential of the team and the likelyhood of the potential coming true. Then the question of it is reactive to the recent times, or longer term.
Love your California Golden Seals jersey and hat! We had Seals season tickets. Sat in section 108 at the Coliseum Arena. That's how I got into hockey. Yes, the Seals never had good teams, but we did have some good players. Charlie Finley never should have owned the Seals. Yes, Charlie knew how to build a championship team in baseball, but knew nothing about hockey. However, had the Seals not traded that first-round pick, and selected Guy Lafleur, might have been the turning point. Also, the Seals never had good radio/TV coverage. Very few road games were televised in the early years. Many good players left the Seals, to sign with teams in the WHA. The Seals never did too well after that. But still, wish the Seals were still playing in the Bay Area.
@@mikewalters3048 that is true, but those are a fraction of newer teams. I would say Nashville is in rebuild status because they made it to a cup final fairly recently. Toronto is actually not in a rebuild because they have been consistently bad for decades prior to their current good team, so they kind of just became a good team. Also any team with a core, like Washington, Pittsburg and Tampa, have a different set of rule when "rebuilding" because they are guaranteed to keep their stars. Shout out to Buffalo.
I’ve seen “dynasty” defined as “three or more championships with the same core players”. Of course this opens up discussions of who is and isn’t a “core” player. By that definition I’d say the 2010-2015 Blackhawks are a dynasty (as much as I loathe to admit it). What about the 2009-2017 Penguins? It’s a pretty long span of time but all three teams had Crosby, Malkin and Letang (and Fleury, sort of).
Call it by the book; rebuild is a success if you consistently win and go deep in the playoffs; best defensemen need to be good on D and score goals, tilt the ice; comparing across eras is too hard; no good reason to trade away first round picks unless you've already won the Cup and are still a top contender, maybe; draft best player available; choke is when you are far better and don't win because of how you played, not them; basketball is far, far worse in trying to determine 'best ever', it's embarrassing;
I like your thought on best goalie, Shersterkin is hands the best goalie in the league this year. Vasy is still the best in the world due to tying together incredible seasons back to back to back. If Shersterkin plays like this for another 2 years then you can have the debate on best in the world.
3 Cups in 5 years is not what the HHOF qualifies as a dynasty. You look at all those years and all those rosters, the most spread apart has been 8 years, and the minimum has been 4. Now, the THG HOF.. that's a whole different animal.;)
when to trade 1st round draft picks: tampa bay's gm JBB provided a masterclass example in taking calculated risks. traded a 1st rd pick each for blake coleman and barclay goodrow in 2020. TBL ended up winning two cups. ⚡
As a Sharks fan.. Losing Goodrow sucked, he was really trending upward and he was one of the few Sharks that wasn't on a horrible contract, in fact I think his cheap contract was a major reason he was worth the first. If Doug Wilson hadn't screwed up the Karlsson trade and lost our first rounder that year I doubt Goodrow gets traded, Wilson just did it to "redeem" himself and get SJ back in the first round (as if the 31st pick is in the same realm as 3rd overall).
@@JesterRace139 i'll echo the same sentiment you felt then, as i feel now. it sucks losing goodrow. it sucks losing him, gourde and coleman. that was TBL's entire 3rd line. this was his basically last chance to get a big contract with term and $. so for that, i'll never hold it against him. no team can afford to pay everyone top dollar. i really appreciated what those guys contributed, and i hope that TBL can win it again with a revamped 3rd line.
If the Sharks wore the Seals jerseys that would be cool and hilarious. Sharks…seals…ah ha ha… Should get Columbus to wear Cleveland Barons jerseys too. Those were pretty nice threads actually!
@@rockybalboa1847 Yes. The Scouts came into the NHL in 1974 (the same year as the Capitals), moved to Colorado in 1976, and then moved to New Jersey in 1982.
What are your favorite rule changes? I love the delay of game penalty for the puck over the glass! Remember when the defensive players would blatantly clear the puck over the glass to get a stoppage, but if a goalie does that OH MY! its a delay of game! Also how many carriers have been saved by blowing the whistle early on the icing calls, it was and still is so tragic to see guys injured going into the boards. What changes over the era's do you like the best?
If it helps the relationship with the fans, does that help the team enough to overcome the disadvantage of having a smaller talent pool? For someone expected to have a lot of media availability it does kind of make sense, but I think the GMs speak to fans (via media) less often, so hire the best candidate for that and hire a translator to work closely with them to release statements.
Hot take: being a dynasty implies dominance, meaning they are ending their championship rounds in 6 games or less and a good amount of sweeps/gentlemen's sweeps before that
Not a topic but on my mind, I HATE HATE HATE 3 on 3 overtime. It does not resemble hockey and is just bad to watch. I'm stunned it still is happening. 4 on 4 was fine and definetly increases scoring chances. They should go back to 4 on 4 and eliminate offsides like in roller hockey. Tons of hockey fans play and enjoy roller and ice, it makes the sport more accesible to lower income families while still using basically all the same skills
When comparing players across eras just compare how they dominated there era. Trophies scoring titles all star years and so on. Dont look at the stats head to head but look how there stats stacked up against there own era and then how the other guys stats looked against his own era and compare that.
Easy answer for everything. Patrick Maroon. The one man dynasty.
when is a rebuild over? patrick maroon.
how should games be called by officials? patrick maroon
what makes a great defensemen? patrick
m a r o o n
Has the cup window closed?
Patrick maroon
Could you imagine if Tampa wins 5 straight?! Pat Maroon, 6 cups in a row... HoF?
@@lonelycake4114 As long as you have Pat Maroon, your cup window is not closed. In fact, it's so open that you are guaranteed a cup XD
And Corey Perry has a chance this year to be the new Marion Hossa, 2 Cup finals back to back, no wins.
There is no debate for this one: Shannon is the best hockey RUclipsr hands down.
THG is a bust…….lol jk.
This is so true that this being a top comment is becoming cliché lol dude's a legend. In the us, especially, where all the coverage is pretty sparse and mostly behind streaming pay walls.
ODD MAN RUSH IS THE BEST HOCKEY RUclipsR! SHANNON IS JUST THE MOST PROLIFIC!...
See what I did tharharhar?...
I even managed to be completely unoriginal just like most yammering RUclips/Twitter combatants, I almost literally just copy-pasted their names over "Lemieux" and "Gretzky" in the classic "Penguins fan" response to the "greatest player" debate...
(In all seriousness, though, I love both channels. The only reason I'm not subscribed to this one is because my subscription page is already an unbearable mess mostly because of two channels I follow that post more-or-less daily, and another that posts on alternating days. Adding a channel that posts several times a day would make it impossible to sort through.)
@@BeastOfMetal1989 lol I get like 30-40 new videos in my sub box everyday
@@WaddickLawnCare OK.
A) That's incalculable to me. I've always kept my sub feed small, and except for those three I mentioned, they drop vids between once a month and once a week, including livestreams.
B) How many of those do you actually watch in a day?
C) Do you have the kind of job where you can get away with watching RUclips while pretending to work? Because I don't. Not even close.
Nice of you to wear a Golden Seals jersey, Shannon. Best example of when NOT to trade your 1st round pick.
@Jeff Talbot Crazy thing was how good some of those players became after they left Oakland.
@Jeff Talbot I swear it wouldn't have been if they sold the franchise to Jerry Seltzer
My buddy played for the California golden seals 🦭…..in the 70’s .
When I think of "choked", I think of a team where the pressure is clearly getting to them, and it's affecting how they would normally play. For example, Marner shooting the puck over the glass multiple times, causing many playoff penalties. He was very scared to get hit, despite having a lot of time to aim that clear. Or I think of a team that is just making lots of stupid mistakes at critical times in the game and collapsing after getting scored on rather than brushing it off and sticking to the gameplan.
However, I don't think Matthews having low scoring is a choke because Danault really is that good at shutting down top players, and he did it all playoffs. In this case, I'd say the depth on Toronto was just not good enough to overcome this, and missing Tavares and having the lines all screwed up and having too many rookies without NHL experience playing on those lines was the real factor in them losing. I'd also put a lot blame on Keefe for not adjusting well.
If Taveres was there it would have been a win for Toronto, Danault would have to divide his time against the 2.
2000 St. Louis Blues. Lost to San Jose when they should have gone much further
@@Dr.Frankensteen Canucks 2003 where our Captain Naslund told the media "we choked" against Minnesota.
@@Just_a_Man780 what does that even mean? You thought u said something smart
@@Just_a_Man780 It's pretty easy to imagine how that would have changed things though - Toronto was getting their asses handed them in the face-off circle and they only needed 1 goal in games 5 or 6. He was a point per game player and one of the best at taking face-offs in the entire NHL. Even in this season, he is #7 in faceoff wins and has the 2nd best face-off percentage in the entire league. He was also on the top player play unit. On top of this, the bottom 3 lines all got changed around as a result, which meant an injured Foligno or Spezza or Kerfoot had to play 2nd line center, which basically mean the bottom 2 lines were screwed and unpracticed.
Make no mistake, it IS Toronto's fault for not solving this depth problem, but it would have been less of an issue if Tavares was there. Notice that Toronto has 6 centers and 8 defensemen and better scoring depth this season. Dubas learned.
You are the future Hockey Guy. I don't agree with everything you say, but heck, your coverage is above and beyond the mainstream money pits that promote one narrative over another.
Saying this, Go leaf Go!
I know a guy who got fired on his first day: underground miner (operator); got lost, twice, on his first shift and ignored every safety regulation you can think of trying to get himself back to the surface.
Sometimes the boss can tell that you're not in the right place.
Now that one makes sense Phillip. Anyone in St Louis remembers though when we acquired Pronger for Shanahan the people were in revolt for years. Chris got pretty damn good I think we did okay there.
What sucked was we offered them Joseph and Brind'amour. Hall of famers everywhere and idiot arb judge has to take shanny.
@@daftelf If Hartford KNEW how Shanny felt they should have told the Blues to stuff it
@@daftelf maybe they shouldn’t offered sheet every player that has any potential lol
@@WaddickLawnCare definitely a bit greedy to go for Stevens then shanahan. You got to admit if Detroit did that we'd have been annoyed. The punishment for Stevens was way overboard though can you imagine getting five number one picks right now for anything?
@@daftelf yes if you offer sheet a player over certain value it’s 4 first round picks? What other punishment can they get for doing it so close together that they didn’t even have the picks they offered sheeted. Seems logical to just take more picks considering St. Louis didn’t want the picks anyway lol
Who was the best ever "future consideration"
14:57 David Ayres, get you a zamboni driver who can do both lol
As long as you’re in the playoffs, your cup window is open. Kings proved that
Or were they a dynasty is another debate one could argue. I think you can have more then one dynasty at a time. Look at avs n Detroit n New Jersey in the late 90’s to early 2000’s
I've visited Buffalo recently as this past summer and have seen 'NO GOAL' signs posted.
Gretzky wouldn't be able to hang in this era, thats why we can't compare that stuff. a lot of the stars from back in the day would get dusted in this era, lets just be real for a second lol.
Best RUclipsr: THG definitely in my top five! Mostly because he's not afraid of a hockey conversation.
Thanks again for another good video popping up exactly when we needed a mental break.
All your points can be summed up in one old saying "opinions are like a certain part of the human anatomy.... everybody's got one."
Lol I love how you censored yourself!
"Best Hockey rivalry"
again, best, is subjective, but still a fun question!
Another topic to be discussed: What is goalie interference?
"Goals should be disallowed only if: (1) an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper's ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal."
Ha... I was expecting more like 8 pages of rules...
Goaltender Interference Rules
1) You can't just be up there and just doin' an interference like that.
1a. Interference is when you
1b. Okay well listen. An interference is when you interfere the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The skater is not allowed to do a block to the, uh, goalie, that prohibits the goalie from doing, you know, just trying to save the puck. You can't do that.
1c-b. Once the skater is in the offensive zone, he can't be over here and say to the goalie, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna block your view! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to make a goal and then don't leave the crease, you have to still leave the crease. You cannot not avoid the goaltender. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, skating motion out of the crease, and then, until you just leave it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have your stick up here, like this, but then there's the interference you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Interference hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse.
1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic...
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. An interference is when the skater makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the goalie and the crease...
2) Do not do an interference please.
@@jeffreym.8957 would a screen count as interference according to that then? because with a players ‘positioning’ they are impairing the goalies ability to ‘defend his goal’
am i interpreting that wrong?
We should just go back to the days where if you enter the crease the goalie can brain you, easy solution
@@goavs7438 only if the goalie is in the crease, and so is the screening player. Wich is why if the skater is in the crease the goalie will bump the player to get the refs attention
Outplayed everytime. There's a wonderful video of Mark Cuban destroying Skip Bayless about this. He just crushes everything Skippy says.
A video topic I find similar to this would be: the public identity of every team. How does the public view each franchise.
Call the book! The players will adapt!
This should absolutely be a recurring segment on your channel!
GOALS SAVED ABOVE EXPECTED!!! That is the best goalie stat
Honest question, but do you know how that stat is calculated?
The "when is a player a bust?" debate I think it also has something to do with expectations. You won't hear people discuss players being a bust for those drafted after the 3rd round for example.
Fantastic idea for a video Shannon! Really love to hear your takes on all of these common hockey talking points. Wishing you and yours health and happiness.
I love your approach to videos.
Guy Lafleur scored 29, 28 and 21 goals in his first three seasons, before scoring 50+ goals in his six following seasons !!!!!
Different time! Not saying it isn’t true then or now but that goes in the era debate as much as it goes in the bust debate IMO
I think in the cap era it’s fair to call back to back or 2 in 3-4 years a dynasty or mini dynasty. It’s just so tough in the salary cap era.
I agree and wonder if it’s possible to have more then one dynasties at once! Like look at New Jersey, Detroit avs in the late 90’s to early 2000’s
In terms of how to call a game, I agree that it SHOULD be by the book, but I also recognize there's some subjectivity. So long as it's consistent, I'm usually fine with it. The things I look for: if it's a call in the first period, it's a call in the last 5 minutes of the 3rd or OT, if it' a call in November, it's a call in the playoffs. Consistent and don't let situations change the definition.
Agreed with pretty much all except one point.
You absolutely, 100%, no doubt in my mind compare players across eras. I HATE when people say "its a different era you cant compare". To me it shows a lack of intelligence or willingness to do the hard thinking that is involved. Sure comparing across eras is definitely harder, but its 100000% possible and I think isn't done enough.
Ok Einstein go figure it out then lol
But they aren’t even the same sport? You had goons in the 70-80’s who only suited up to protect players. And to say the skill level hasn’t changed is kind of immature seeing as Gretzky has said that!
Q: when is it safe to say a player is a bust?
A: When he misses an empty net on a break away.
Growing up I always had fun discussions about Hockey.
It wasn't until the internet and coming into contact with "fan bases" that I started to see some of the horrible toxicity in discussions.
It's off putting and honestly probably bad for the sport.
That said. yes, Hull's skate was in the crease.
In regards to the Best Ever Anything, one of the funniest experiments ever done was trying to find out what the smallest thing that could create an Us vs Them reaction in people and the answer was "Literally Anything"
I was on the edge of my seat, thinking you wern't going to mention Jágr in goal scorer argument, i'm shure I'm not the only kid who remembers him as goliath.
I hope this video does really well! Love hearing your takes about general hockey stuffs
You deserve a lot of credit for not bumping teams up or down for injuries and such. It has been shown over and over again that such manual corrections are wildly inaccurate. Psychologist Paul E. Meehl coined "a broken leg rule" where only something really catastrophic and decisive (like a broken leg) should be taken into account.
On the whole “is this player a bust” I initially thought to wait after 5 years, I supposed 3 years is enough for some. I will be willing to stretch it “anywhere between 3-5 years, depending on the team’s situation, maybe.”
Like, a rookie trying to make a team that’s already loaded for a cup run, maybe a shorter leash of 3 years. Or trade the player after that window to another team where the player will have more opportunity to show their talents.
For a team rebuilding, give them 5 years. The young player on a rebuilding team will have more opportunities to prove they can be positively consistent to the team.
Victor Rask is a bust for sure.
Nichushkin used to be a bust.
Colin White is a Bust! 28 Million Dollar BUST!
@@ralphyboy3636 he’s a second round pick. Busts is for high picks that don’t become decent players
The subtle shade Canucks shade hahaha
“..the era of every cup is either hawks or LA, except in 2011 when the Bruins were ‘allowed’ to have it” @17m03s
I have never heard the term "dynasty" be given any objective qualifiers such as your 3 cups in 5 years. It's simply a word that means long reign of power. Regardless of whether the Lightning win another cup, they're just unequivocally a dynasty.
If you do another one of these videos, do a topic on how awards are.
Should there be a off/def defenseman award?
Should there be a best overall player awards aside from the Hart(MVP)?
People just want to think that have inside knowledge on the best ever ice cleaners, its embarrassing. That being said, the one in Montreal is siiiiiiick
I feel like the Norris trophy is just whatever defenseman gets the most points so they should have separate trophies
The Orr and the Norris
Discussing the reffing during Boston's games in the 2011 playoffs will always bring lively debate
For all the questions where there are "right now" and "all time" answers, Nolan Ryan is perhaps the best example in all of sports. Yes, he set the single-season strikeout record, but he never won a Cy Young because he was never really close to being the best pitcher in his league, eclipsed by guys like Palmer and Valenzuela. But an argument could definitely be made that he's one of the best to ever play the game because he was so consistently good for so long.
Good vid as usual . Because you are wise (risk aversive ) you have not gone through the hell Alyssa Hope has recently gone through . Your content is great ! (I don't watch the previews/ reviews ) keep doing what makes you the most amount of money . I give your 4 cats and bunny rabbits a thumbs up ! Yvonne is great , and I think you made a smart choice including her ! GOOD HEALTH TO YOUR FAMILY .
How should games be called by the officials? Right down the middle, per the rules, the same way from first drop to final horn, and for every player.
As a Leafs fan I feel like any discussion about the Leafs with a fan of another team is just a waste of time because they think the Leafs will never accomplish anything til the end of time. I'm sure this applies to other teams as well, but it feels like everybody either loves or hates the Leafs these days
It’s largely due to the medias, making them unbearable to play against. Matthews matthews matthews marner marner nylander matthews matthews matthews marner marner nylander “random player doing well on the opposing team” matthews matthews matthews etc etc, that’s all you hear when your team plays them. Makes you wanna blow your brains out. And often times you hear about them even when you aren’t even playing them, like cmon
As a non-leafs fan, I think a lot of it has to do with a portion of your fan base, that just boggles my mind. Like when Shannon wore a Florida jersey in a news video becuse however you spell his name set a record for highest assists total ever and dude left a nasty comment becuse he didn't wear a Mathews jersey. But hopefully for your sake and especially Steve Dangle's sanity, I hope Toronto goes on a run this year.
'Has their Cup Window opened or closed' For me, it's the same as asking 'Can they make it to the Conference Finals?' More often than not, the East is stronger than the West or vice versa. Being able to make it to the third round is the least I expect a team with their wondow 'open' to do.
The one thing is with divisional playoff setups, you can have the two best teams meet in the first 2 rds( or 3)
I like your thinking of conference final , but even then say, TB meets Fla in 2nd rd , with a strong contender in Tor, two solid teams maybe even three don't make it out of rd 2
I am a simple man I see a new THG video I click play and hit like 👍
that's what I do as well
Me too! THG is the only channel I give 👍 every vid. Go Avs!! Joe Sakic for Prez! 😂 🍻
Another highly debated topic:
Championships with possible asterisks.
(shortened seasons, lockouts, changed formats, injuries, bad officiating)
100%
Best ever.....Montreal Canadiens '76-'77. 60-8-12 132 points and Stanley Cup.
In the current climate of online discussion, where everything is THE worst or THE best and people's view are either pitchblack or angelic white, hearing someone with a logical greyscale is always refreshing to me. THG, keep up the good work!
Glad to see your seeing things properly to tho! Give yourself credit!
I think it would be a cool video to do a time-line tracking the end of 1 era of hockey and where the next begins when it comes to comparing them
It’s always fun to pick your favorite / best scorers, hitters, d-men, goalies, etc. I’m enjoying the hype around the top goal scorers this season. Coming back to hockey after a long absence, it’s been a fun season.
Blues cup window closed after Petro left. But opened this season after Kyrou’s strong performance last year and him following it up this year with an even better one, along with Thomas elevating his playmaking abilities
Choke vs outplayed
In the playoffs , each round becomes a game of inches, that extra puck battle win , that extra save, that timely goal
I remember High powered Montreal playing North Stars and a hot goalie Melouche, (numerous injuries Mon) deny them a chance at 5 SC in a row
Det dominates Anaheim but can't solve J.S. Giguere
Van upsets Cgy in tough 7 gm series, goes to cup finals
It's so tight in playoffs, both teams fighting hard
Very interesting video. Thank you for what you're doing!
IGreat video! think a rebuild is over when a team becomes competitive year in and year out. They are a threat to make the playoffs every season, or do damage in the playoffs. For trading a 1st, I think its either when a team feels ready to go deep in the playoffs or if a stud player suddenly becomes available that no one expected.
"when should teams trade 1st roung picks?" -> See Tampa. When they do it, it some how works.
Most high level goalies are marginally better than each other and the rest of your team's ability dictates whether your stats are low or high
Shannon
Love these types of discussions. Keep up the good work.
The Capitals last 2 GM’s have always seemed to draft best available BUT the best player available then gets traded for Erat and a hot dog cart because GMGM think’s he can’t skate. 🤦🏼
I love these topics, can we get more video's like this?
One debate you can use that gets really intense is "Gary Bettman is great/ bad for hockey" I think he has made the game better. Fan friendly rule changes. Salary cap. Getting more eyes on the sport expanding into markets etc
100% but everyone’s time comes and goes!
Miracle on Ice: Did Russia choke? Or did Team USA play above their level?
And why is the answer to both of these questions "Yes"?
I think the San Jose Sharks are a team you can define as chokers. Beast teams that got to one Cup finals in more than a decade.
A players’ greatness has to be assessed using only his own era as the metric. Comparing eras can have some relevance but speculating how a dude would do in some other era is pointless.
Ian curious if legal sports betting has an effect on officiating. People losing money on a blown call could result in game fixing accusations.
Norris trophy voting has always been unfairly skewed towards points totals.
Thanks for another great video! Keep on going!
I can't stop staring at Question 2, "When "isis" safe...."
The only thing your channel is missing is a detailed discussion on fancy stats. Especially since GMs are hiring fancy stat specialists.
Some people want to argue whether water is wet or the sky is blue. I don't play that game.
YYAAAAAYYYYY!! Bring back the California Golden Seals! Magnificent jersey, Shannon. Where's Gilles Meloche?
The debate about drafting the best player available often misses a crucial factor: Determining who the BPA is a lot easier with the 1st pick than the 71st. The later you go in the draft, the harder it is to determine the BPA.
Absolutely agree with your take on "he's a bust". Saw a stupid amount of comments saying this about Jack Hughes and now he's developed into a potential franchise guy. Not every player is going to be McDavid
I disagree with the point in power rankings. There is already something to measure the sum of game results. It is called standings table. Power rankings should focus in the potential of the team and the likelyhood of the potential coming true. Then the question of it is reactive to the recent times, or longer term.
"imagine you just started a job and your boss says you're not gonna make it there" the way this has happened to me bc i have social anxiety 💀
Love your California Golden Seals jersey and hat! We had Seals season tickets. Sat in section 108 at the Coliseum Arena. That's how I got into hockey. Yes, the Seals never had good teams, but we did have some good players. Charlie Finley never should have owned the Seals. Yes, Charlie knew how to build a championship team in baseball, but knew nothing about hockey. However, had the Seals not traded that first-round pick, and selected Guy Lafleur, might have been the turning point. Also, the Seals never had good radio/TV coverage. Very few road games were televised in the early years. Many good players left the Seals, to sign with teams in the WHA. The Seals never did too well after that. But still, wish the Seals were still playing in the Bay Area.
Teams have successfully rebuilt if their team makes it to a conference final.
I get it and I do not disagree but by your standards there are some teams that cannot be *_re_* built because they have never had a first built.
@@mikewalters3048 that is true, but those are a fraction of newer teams. I would say Nashville is in rebuild status because they made it to a cup final fairly recently. Toronto is actually not in a rebuild because they have been consistently bad for decades prior to their current good team, so they kind of just became a good team. Also any team with a core, like Washington, Pittsburg and Tampa, have a different set of rule when "rebuilding" because they are guaranteed to keep their stars. Shout out to Buffalo.
One thing that I know for sure: Quinn Hughes is the best defenseman the Canucks have ever had! All due respect to Edler!
I’ve seen “dynasty” defined as “three or more championships with the same core players”. Of course this opens up discussions of who is and isn’t a “core” player. By that definition I’d say the 2010-2015 Blackhawks are a dynasty (as much as I loathe to admit it). What about the 2009-2017 Penguins? It’s a pretty long span of time but all three teams had Crosby, Malkin and Letang (and Fleury, sort of).
Call it by the book; rebuild is a success if you consistently win and go deep in the playoffs; best defensemen need to be good on D and score goals, tilt the ice; comparing across eras is too hard; no good reason to trade away first round picks unless you've already won the Cup and are still a top contender, maybe; draft best player available; choke is when you are far better and don't win because of how you played, not them; basketball is far, far worse in trying to determine 'best ever', it's embarrassing;
The answer, of course, is all of my team's players (if it's good) and, of course, all of my rival team's players (if it's bad).
What is your take on Tim Stutzle and Gallagher situation. I thought Stutzle dove a bit, but he missed 2 games due to the hit. It’s a little puzzling..
I like your thought on best goalie, Shersterkin is hands the best goalie in the league this year. Vasy is still the best in the world due to tying together incredible seasons back to back to back. If Shersterkin plays like this for another 2 years then you can have the debate on best in the world.
great video!! one of the best yet!!
3 Cups in 5 years is not what the HHOF qualifies as a dynasty. You look at all those years and all those rosters, the most spread apart has been 8 years, and the minimum has been 4. Now, the THG HOF.. that's a whole different animal.;)
when to trade 1st round draft picks:
tampa bay's gm JBB provided a masterclass example in taking calculated risks. traded a 1st rd pick each for blake coleman and barclay goodrow in 2020.
TBL ended up winning two cups. ⚡
As a Sharks fan.. Losing Goodrow sucked, he was really trending upward and he was one of the few Sharks that wasn't on a horrible contract, in fact I think his cheap contract was a major reason he was worth the first. If Doug Wilson hadn't screwed up the Karlsson trade and lost our first rounder that year I doubt Goodrow gets traded, Wilson just did it to "redeem" himself and get SJ back in the first round (as if the 31st pick is in the same realm as 3rd overall).
@@JesterRace139 i'll echo the same sentiment you felt then, as i feel now. it sucks losing goodrow. it sucks losing him, gourde and coleman. that was TBL's entire 3rd line. this was his basically last chance to get a big contract with term and $. so for that, i'll never hold it against him. no team can afford to pay everyone top dollar. i really appreciated what those guys contributed, and i hope that TBL can win it again with a revamped 3rd line.
If the Sharks wore the Seals jerseys that would be cool and hilarious. Sharks…seals…ah ha ha…
Should get Columbus to wear Cleveland Barons jerseys too. Those were pretty nice threads actually!
Who is gonna wear the Kansas City Scouts jersey ... man that one was badass ... lol
@@rockybalboa1847 New Jersey.
@@blackenedmagic888 did the Scouts become the Rockies who became the Devils
@@rockybalboa1847 Yes. The Scouts came into the NHL in 1974 (the same year as the Capitals), moved to Colorado in 1976, and then moved to New Jersey in 1982.
What are your favorite rule changes? I love the delay of game penalty for the puck over the glass! Remember when the defensive players would blatantly clear the puck over the glass to get a stoppage, but if a goalie does that OH MY! its a delay of game! Also how many carriers have been saved by blowing the whistle early on the icing calls, it was and still is so tragic to see guys injured going into the boards. What changes over the era's do you like the best?
I remember when CBJ with Torts beat out Tampa in 4 games 3 stanely cups ago and it was my favorite series to watch.
Devils, Avs and Wings won 8 of 9 cups from 1995 to 2003. I think of that as a "Dynastic Era" even if no team was technically a dynasty.
Blackhawks and Red Wings is what you classify as modern-era dynasty years. I wouldn’t call Kings or Avs those, but they had amazing teams though.
Debate topic: Does the (apparent) requirement that Canadiens GMs and coaches be francophones help or hurt the team?
If it helps the relationship with the fans, does that help the team enough to overcome the disadvantage of having a smaller talent pool? For someone expected to have a lot of media availability it does kind of make sense, but I think the GMs speak to fans (via media) less often, so hire the best candidate for that and hire a translator to work closely with them to release statements.
I think the Bust conversation can happen at the end of a players ELC
THG: never draft off the board..
Yzerman: Hold my beer..
Rope Hintz is perfect example of a successful reach.
Al Sobotka in Detroit is the best ice cleaner in the NHL-by far! Not even close. He’s also the best octopus twirler. Put his name on the cup.
😬
after game 1 of his career: "Ryan Poehling is gonna be a superstar!" now? not even close
The hill I’ll die on. Draft best overall. If your team has a need address it in free agency or trade.
Hot take: being a dynasty implies dominance, meaning they are ending their championship rounds in 6 games or less and a good amount of sweeps/gentlemen's sweeps before that
Not a topic but on my mind, I HATE HATE HATE 3 on 3 overtime. It does not resemble hockey and is just bad to watch. I'm stunned it still is happening. 4 on 4 was fine and definetly increases scoring chances. They should go back to 4 on 4 and eliminate offsides like in roller hockey. Tons of hockey fans play and enjoy roller and ice, it makes the sport more accesible to lower income families while still using basically all the same skills
When comparing players across eras just compare how they dominated there era. Trophies scoring titles all star years and so on. Dont look at the stats head to head but look how there stats stacked up against there own era and then how the other guys stats looked against his own era and compare that.
Ah I see THG woke up and chose violence today