Thanks for watching folks! Check out my last 3 videos as well!: Why Didn't Dumbledore HUNT Voldemort Down?: ruclips.net/video/h2xlzYvDtR8/видео.html The Story of Voldemort's Daughter: ruclips.net/video/HKSLBD3wRZo/видео.html How Harry Resisted EVERY Unforgivable Curse: ruclips.net/video/Z-YzYHlcZ4U/видео.html
Note: Dumbledore had zero say in whether or not Tom Riddle attended Hogwarts - he wasn’t even the headmaster. And not even the headmaster gets a say. That is up to the Quill of Acceptance and the Book of Admittance with the Book of Admittance getting the final say.
I'm just thinking that this probably wasn't the case. Because if Dumbledore had put that book about Horcruxes for Tom Riddle to find, then why at a later point would have needed to search for Horace Slughorn's true memory of the encounter?
lets not forget dumbleedore had other thing on hand tobeside riddle jr like help newt scamander and friends and hendry potters dealing with his from lover gallert grindelwald who had start revolution army call alliance was also add power durring those times 1942 until 1945 add world war 2
Dumbledore probably did not want to kill anyone. Knew too much of what it would do to his own soul. So this theory makes sense. It's also possible that there was some hope that the child would change for the better in the new school environment. But if not, then the plan was always to (mis)guide him to his fate.
@@rahullak So instead, Dumbledore let a multitude of other people die by allowing Voldemort to murder them, or his followers to murder them. In the real world, you go to jail if you have the opportunity to stop a capital crime but don't.
@@rikk319 It isn't the real world is it? You don't have people able to do incredible dark stuff with immortality in the real world. Central to this theory is that Voldemort was so irredeemable that the only way to end him was to (mis)guide him to final death. Or face the prospect of his immortal self killing many many more and never dying.
The first problem that I see with this theory is that it maintains that Dumbledore wouldn't kill a young Tom Riddle. However, he would stand aside and let Tom Riddle kill six other people. At least one of them, Myrtle, a child herself. Anyone capable of doing the second would have been capable of doing the first.
I agree. Dumbledore wasn’t headmaster when Tom was learning about Horcruxes. I think this is a very important fact J.K. shows us. I don’t think there would have been such information in the library with Dumbledore as headmaster. I also don’t think there’s any way he plants a book called ‘Secrets of the Darkest Art’ for a student to find.
Dumbledore didn't have enough evidence against riddle at the time. Plus he had already made Horcruxes. And when Voldemort started wrecking havoc, Tom Riddle basically dropped off the face of the Earth. Dumbledore knew almost everything from the beginning, but due to not fully knowing how many Horcruxes Riddle might've made, killing him wouldn't be very helpful, would it? Dumbledore wasn't a killer, he defeated Grindelwald, but Dumbledore didn't kill him.
Dumbledore didn't tell Harry much because Dumbledore was afraid certain knowledge would corrupt Harry. Kinda like Riddle. Plus Dumbledore noticed that Harry shared a core with Voldemort, most likely in the second book, when he learned Harry could speak to snakes. So he was also trying to keep secrets from Voldemort.
@@sandro5535 actually, Dumbledore hired Lockhart to hopefully get him exposed. Because several things Lockhart claimed to have done, Dumbledore knew who actually did them, thus knowing Lockhart was a fraud. After all, the defense against the dark arts job was cursed, I'm guessing Dumbledore was going to use that to expose him. But Harry and Ron ended up doing it for him 🤣
@@Larka661also, Harry does have a dark side. Think about him mutilating Malfoy or using the cruciatus curse on multiple occasions. Dumbledore didn't want to tempt him in any way.
No, I don’t believe that Dumbledore planted the book in restricted section. The book was already there. Slughorn was aware of this dark magic before only and mentioned that Dumbledore was against the very subject of Horcrux. When Dumbledore becamethe headmaster, one of the first steps he took was removing those books from the restricted section and keeping them in his office.
Dumbledore would have had no final say over the library content as Dippit was the hm at the time. He was suspicious of Harry being a horcrux from birth. Hence why there were no books left in the library.. he was already trying to figure out what riddle had did incase he returned
If Dumbledore had that level of Precognition then Ariana would have never died and he and Grindelwald would have succeeded in overthrowing the Ministry of Magic.
@@LeoVS44 also the fact that Dumbledore wasn’t able to remove the books until he became headmaster, meaning until then, several books, including secrets of the darkest art were left in the restricted section available to anyone with authorization to go there
Its likely he was keeping a close eye on Tom and hoping to find any excuse to get him sent to Azkaban. However Tom Riddle turned out to be far more slippery than he could imagine.
Come on riddle was already a fledgling sociopath fits right there in his dorm in wools all he really needed was a teensy tiny little boost a nudge in the right direction riddle was a genius all the teachers fell under his spell and with his good grades and his silver tongue he could get away with anything think for a moment he could have channeled that into anything he wanted the world was his for the taking he could have became a member of society he could have worked under the government to become a high ranking member he could have discovered numerous things either forgotten or lost look at how he found the cup he sweet talked the old lady and conned her elf to take her out of the picture and poofed the cup away imagine how he could have used that tongue to sweet talk any owner to part with their relic he could have done who knows what but the display by Dumbledore on his dresser on his letter day of his few things that were exclusively his alone turned him away from positively channeling his illness into twisted hate for all and any other bumps and nudges the old man gave him set him on the destructive path that we know and understand
@@jayduffy5532 The question is why?? Are you saying that Dumbledore was bored after defeating Grindelwald and he was like" lemme manipulate this weird teenager to become the next dark lord, it has been so boring in the wizard World without a great villain. I can then play the saviour again, who cares if Innumerable people die "😂😂 P.S: Actually on his dresser, many of the items belonged to other students and Dumbledore only asked to return what did not belong to Riddle
@@Hari-kx2er good question. Why? Let's say Dumbledore did set the clock into motion. What if some part of him (a tiny residual darkness) was curious about horcruxes and planned this whole experiment. Around that time, it was probably him or big G who can attempt such a thing, but why risk his own life for an experiment. This is where Tom comes in. Although this theory is quite off canon, it's fun to think about.
One point that weakens this theory is Dumbledore's strong insistence that Harry retrieve the Horcrux memory from Slughorn. If this theory is correct he wouldn't have really needed that and he could have tested Harry in some other way.
@@shadow-lr8xg yes, Dumbledore knew Voldemort had made Horcruxes basically from the beginning. He just needed Slughorn's memory to know how many Voldemort made. Hell, Dumbledore knew Voldemort could and would return at the very beginning. His killing curse may have rebounded, but his soul was safe, if he had no Horcruxes, Voldemort would've died and there would be no story.
@@Larka661 eh, I don't buy that. The memory they retrieved was from before Voldemort had made any horcruxes, there's little reason to believe that just because Tom mentioned making 7 back then that that's how many he was going to make, he could have later decided to make more or fewer than that. Case in point, as far as Voldemort was aware he only made 6, as Harry being one was an accident. Further, there's no reason that Dumbledore would know or think that Voldemort would have told Slughorn how many he was eventually going to create.
I will have to say, Dumbledore definitely was manipulative, he's not a bad person so to say, but rather seems to try to do it for either the greater good, or knowledge.
Until Harry’s 4th year, there was no scenario where Harry would be able to live if Voldemort would be destroyed. It’s harsh, but that was the reality. It was Voldemort’s foolish idea to use Lilly Potter’s blood that gave Harry a chance to live in the end. If you had been Dumbledore, what would you have done? Keep Harry safe while tons of people are killed by Riddle?
Wasn't the whole premise of the last two books that it was supposed to be super difficult to kill Voldemort because you had to find his horcruxes and destroy them before you actually kill Voldemort and his body? How would setting Voldemort up to make 7 horcruxes make it easier to defeat him?
because the more horcruxes you make, the weaker your soul becomes. Or that’s what this theory suggested, that Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to become as fragil in his soul as possible
@@danielleos3593 of course the fling all of this is that no matter how fragile your soul becomes in that scenario, it’s still anchored to this world, making him harder to kill somebody with a completely pure soul like Harry (apart from the sacrificial protection)
Yes, Dumbledore didn't tell Harry everything, just like he didn't tell anyone else everything (just ask Aberforth). But there is an even better reason that this theory does not work out: It would require a *lot* of knowledge about the upcoming decades, it might even require Dumbledore knowing that there might be a prophecy coming to help put Voldemort away (it's not as if Dumbledore and the Order of the Phoenix were anywhere close to dealing with this problem on their own). Voldemort got far too close to winning that war, if it was all planned ahead there should have been some kind of fail-safe.
Which is weird since he’s the strongest wizard in the world plus has the elder wand. Big D could’ve soloed groups of death eaters at a time so I don’t understand how they were having a tough time of it.
@@gargoyles9999 Dumbledore is a teacher, first and foremost. The Ministry was the "other side" of the war, and with Barty Crouch Jr., they had infiltrated the very family of the one who had to organize the fight. Whatever the aurors were planning, Voldemort would get informed in advance. And the Death Eaters would have been stronger if Voldemort had ever been willing to fight together with his Death Eaters, instead of either the Death Eaters fighting or him.
I find the theory interesting, but I am not convinced by it. Firstly, I don't think it was really Dumbledore's decision to offer Tom a place at Hogwarts. There are a quill and a book who choose the candidates and Dumbledore was not headmaster yet. Could he really just come back and say: "I didn't like the kid, so I chose not to offer him a place at Hogwarts."? Secondly the idea of manipulating Voldemort into making Horcruxes would only make sense if Dumbledore kept a close enough eye on Voldemort to find the Horcruxes and destroy them. If Voldemort believed to be immortal but wasn't, then it would be a weakness. But this is not what happened. When Dumbledore died years after Voldemort made the Horcruxes four of them (five if you include Harry) were still intact. Thirdly when he discusses Horcruxes with Tom Slughorn says that they are a banned subject at Hogwarts and Dumbledore is particularly fierce about it. This makes sense if several teachers knew about them and Dumbledore didn't want the students to know about them. But it doesn't make sense if teachers didn't know about them. How would this happen? Did Dumbledore approach one day Slughorn and tell him: "Don't tell students about Horcruxes." Slughorn: "I don't even know what a Horcrux is." Dumbledore: "I will explain it to you in detail, so you know exactly what you shouldn't teach the students."? If Horcruxes were a banned subject and Dumbledore was responsibble for the ban and I don't see why Slughorn would lie to Tom about this, then it would be very suspiscous for him to explain them to Slughorn.
100% agree with you plus If Dumbledore set Slughorn to give info to Tom about horcruxes then why he needed the memory and why even Slughorn had to modify it in the first place it doesn't make sense.
Agreed. Also, why would Dumbledore spend so long gathering the memories to figure things out, if he was the mastermind all along? He didn't need them to persuade Harry either, as he could've just told Harry who blindly would follow his orders regardless
@@annavafeiadou4420 IIRC Dumbledore wanted to know how many horcruxes Tom intended to make. And Slughorn modified his memory because of shame. If Dumbledore explained to Slughorn about horcrux and told him not to teach it to students, and Slughorn did just that because he liked Tom --> Then it's understandable Slughorn would deny everything when Dumbledore asked him.
Couldn't have put it better myself. The whole of Slytherin house wouldn't have attended Harry and co's 7 years at Hogwarts save one, Malfoy, if Dumbledore had been in a position to choose who went to Hogwarts and who did not.
Also, creating a horcrux invovled murder, so I don't think Dumbledore would purposely place a path for Tom Riddle that required him to murder others. Plus, if he made Slughorn give the info to Tom Riddle, he would have conversed with Slughorn about Sluggy's conversation with Tom Riddle way back when Tom was still in school.
Yeah - this one is really out there. I am no fan of Dumbledore. However, I think the time when Dumbledore visited Riddle in the orphanage he figured out he was a trouble kid but I don't think he had any clue how far it would go. I can't imagine that any teacher (he was not yet the headmaster) would willingly invite someone they knew was destined to be a dark wizard to a school for children. I believe he thought the school could help the young orphan and direct him to a better life.
My issue with this theory is: what's the point of the entire The Half-Blood Prince book/movie then, if not to retrieve Slughorn's unaltered memory for the pensieve? How does that play in?
Dumbledore knew about the Horcruxes, but he needed Slughorn's memory to have an idea of how many Voldemort made. Plus, since Harry was (unknowingly) a Horcrux, he could Sense the others. Harry got more information in the 6th book than any of the others. That's why he basically sent Harry to find and destroy them.
@@Larka661 I've been rereading the series, and when I got through Half-Blood Prince I realized this is true. I've watched the movies far more so what I was remembering was how the fake memory in the movie muffles the word "Horcrux." I was just assuming it was the same in the book. As for this theory, I do still question why Dumbledore would intentionally allow any student, especially one he thought would grow up to become a dark wizard, to learn about Horcruxes.
While I love your videos and applaud you for coming up with this theory, I just don't seen how it's "easier" to eliminate Voldemort after letting him get horcruxes. It seems it would have been way WAY easier to remove Voldemort if he never had horcruxes. Still, I love your channel!
@@djb9267 there are more ways to "eliminate" than just imprisonment also i imagine in a world of magic and prophecies, there is a way to check the probability of the future.
@@LycaonsMemories Forgive me if i am wrong, but Mcgonagall said that Deviation is one of the most unexplored Branches of magic. I don't remember the exact quote, I believe it was in Half blood prince.
@@djb9267 i think mcgonagall said it was worthless lol, and whatever its teacher said that. so yes i imagine that was said. but that still doesnt change my comment
@@LycaonsMemories we have seen in trelawney's classes that there are ways to tell the future. But it's very open to speculation, it wouldn't be enough to just expell one of the best students of hogwarts.
Tom riddle already new everything about making a horcrux before he talked to professor slughorn because Dumbledore wasn't headmaster yet and didn't have the power to remove the books on horcruxes until after voldemort left the school. He only wanted professor slughorn to answer what would happen if someone split his soul more then once or more specifically split it 7 times
That. All Riddle wanted to know from Slughorn was whether or not creating multiple horcruxes was possible. Proving this point, it was only after this chat that Riddle created the second one.
I would like to see a video about when Dumbledore became interested in Tom Riddle's story? I think he may have found out about the Gaunt family when Riddle was a student. He could read the cases of Morfin, Marvol, and the house elf in the files of the Wizengamot. But where did he meet Bob Odgen and find those children who were with little Riddle in the cave? And how quickly did he think he needed to question Slughorn when he found out about the Horcruxes?
I don’t see Dumble getting bored since Grin went to Azkaban so as to create this situation for fun. He wanted everything for the greater good. Killing hundreds of magical folks doesn’t mix with his morals. His sister died and grew empathy for love and life. Muggle or magic. Plotting evil seems to be far fetched. Especially if it leads to his own death. It would be the most dramatic death taking as many as he could, without it being him.
Dumbeldore invited Riddle to school because it was his job. Boy was a wizard and it was their job to send a teacher to every muggle born to explain and invite. Dumbeldore hid books when he became headmaster. Slughorn was a knowledgeable capable wizard probably also knowledge in dark arts. After all, he was a slithering head.
Nothing makes sense in this video. Dumbledore never was a dark wizard. He was an over talented wizard who crossed paths with Grindelwald and fell in love with him at a time when he was quite bored of his life and felt like his talents were wasted. He got excited to meet someone as intelligent and talented as him. For sure, he was seduced by Grindelwald and the prospect of gaining more power. But he was drived by love more than he was drived by darkness. He never took the plunge. He never became a dark wizard. We were told that the tragedy surrounding the death of his sister led him to give up all that greater good madness but I think that he would have gave it up anyway. And as he once told Harry, everybody has a bit of darkness inside but at the end, your choices define who you are. And Dumbledore chose to protect people. He didn't try to manipulate Riddle while he was at Hogwarts. It just doesn't make sense. He didn't teach Slughorn about Horcruxes or he wouldn't have needed Harry to collect his memory. He did knew something was off with Riddle but he couldn't have guessed that he would become Voldemort. Even if he did, leading Voldemort towards immortality would have been completely stupid and useless. Rowling never wrote that creating Horcruxes had a weakening effect. Anyway, please if you're running out of content for your videos, just stop making them instead of spreading incorrect facts that could mislead people who never read the books.
Dumbledore did keep the idea that Harry would have to sacrifice his life from both Snape and Harry. Seems like it was necessary though. Also he kept that Harry might live if he martyred himself. Once again that was probably necessary, Harry had to believe he was sacrificing himself in order to survive potentially?
More likely that if Dumbledore knew Tom was Evil enough to want to create a Horcrux he would manipulate events so that Tom would try and die in the attempt like so many other dark wizards throughout history but underestimated him.
I think the thing about Dumbledore is that he never truly left the ideology that him and Grindelwald started, he just rerouted himself but still working "for the greater good"
Do keep in mind that in order to create a horcruxes, one also has to murder someone. With that being said, Dumbledore in the end condemned 7 people to death.
idk if you noticed but I saw your old video of you explaining how Ms Weasley killed Bellatrix Lestrange, and I think I know what "spell" Ms Weasley used in the new Hogwarts legacy game your character can weald an "ancient magic" and in one of the start boss fights you use that magic to do a "finisher" that looks just how Bellatrix Lestrange died.
Dumbledore was fiercely against horcruxes, as Slughorn said it was not a subject permitted to be talked about. And there were no books even in the Restricted Section of the library on them except one book which said it will not give instruction on them. Slughorn himself couldn't have been totally naive of shady things when he knew the prices parts from magical creatures could fetch. He could easily have had his own personal education, tho I'd say probably from a book than IRL. He's older than a naive high schooler. There were 2 books on horcruxes, and after Dumbledore died, Hermione summoned them easily from his tower. She was very surprised they existed and that she could retrieve them so easily. IIRC, she was horrified by them. So, no, I don't think Dumbledore manipulated Voldemort. In fact, when manipulating Harry, much of it might easily have been damage control than proactive maneuvering. Dumbledore kept "an annoyingly close watch" on Voldemort in effort to protect the students, Hogwarts, and the Wizarding World. He refused the DADA job to Voldemort after Prof Dippet refuse Voldemort. Dumbledore said in their interview that it had been a long time since he could frighten Tom with a burning wardrobe: "But I wish I could, Tom. I wish I could." Dumbledore was not a fool thinking he could force Tom even in the beginning to be a benign person. All he could do was try to protect the world from him. And Harry played the ultimate part of that plan.
This was pretty epic. I like to lay in bed, with my eyes closed, whenever I listen to your theories. Sometimes I see the action of your theories unfold like the story of the deathly hallows. Today it was clearer than ever. Thank you 👌🏽
Well... I have a few things to say. I'm going to start with this, something I've never uttered in person before. No matter what Dumbledore said to Snape, I think he knew all along that Harry wasn't going to die. He knew there was a horcrux inside Harry, and there wasn't anything written that said when someone broke open a horcrux that if it was something alive that it would die. We've had multiple stories of people who said they felt like they were in limbo before coming back; that's where I think Harry was, and since he was able to answer every question he asked Dumbledore while he was in there, I think it was his imagination that figured everything out before he awakened. Second, I have multiple problems with this current theory. True, Dumbledore could have manipulated Riddle in some way, and possibly also Slughorn, but it would have taken a bunch of coincidences for any of those later events to come to fruition. He didn't seem to know about the diary until Harry gave it to him after killing the spirit of a young Voldemort. I have the feeling that it wasn't until after that situation is when Dumbledore decided to study up on how horcruxes were created, at which time Slughorn would have already been gone... and we have to add that the book on horcruxes never mentioned what would happen after one was cracked open, since the guy who created the first one never had an opportunity open his, which means Dumbledore was actually the first person to crack one open and that's when he learned what had to be done. In general, not a bad theory; I just can't see it happening that way.
I don’t think you really can say Dumbledore was a former dark wizard. He has an ideology that could have lead him down a dark path, but I don’t think he practiced any dark magic or actually moved to rule by force
So, why he didn't manipulate Tom to a lesser evil way than the most evil way? Why he would create an almost immortal enemy than a weaker enemy when he could make him a lesser controlled enemy?
There is a theory that says He is actually Just His mothers obscurial Born in flesh because of the Love Potion meaning He was Born Evil and parasitic unsaveable by anyone but His mother according to JK Rowling.
Why it is kind of short sighted to claim Dumbledore “always planned to use Harry to solve Voldemort problem by killing Harry”, a thread with examples (therefore a bit long): The depth of Dumbledore character and intelligence is too vast for normal people to comprehend him and his actions-motivations correctly, in both the book reality and for us readers too haha It cannot be done upon jumping to a conclusion for what appears to be in this one individual episode or another, it needs to be understood in its totality, from the timeline that runs for decades and that would reveal new information as he investigated into the situations presenting themselves. He knew more than others about magic as well as human behaviour but he wasn’t omniscient. The book makes that clear however not obvious - it requires attention to notice how, even though his plans are carefully calculated to prevent as much damage as possible in the present moment while still ensuring the main goal (stopping voldermort) happens in the future in the least destructive way - he is constantly paying attention to what is happening so he can adjust his plans as people independent and unpredictable actions influence the present events. There are many: prophecies, personal choice for good and evil, betrayals from both sides, unveiling of unknown/little know but highly powerful magic etc. He ALWAYS knew Voldemort would be back and had an idea of action plan on how to respond when that happened, but he didn’t know how or when. Hence, he never sat on the comforting idea that they were all fine and they could rest from the threat. Which was a burden that he basically carried alone because no one else wanted to accept that, therefore, prepare for it with him. For me it is clear he never manipulated Harry to die. He noticed that what could stop Voldemort darkness was ancient magic activated by love in order to protect. As horcruxes were progressively revealed to him (and to us the readers), he eventually came to the conclusion that Harry was one and that was a problem apparently without solution because Voldemort could not be truly stopped unless all horcruxes were destroyed and for that Harry needed to be destroyed; plus there was the prophecy about the two that made clear “one cannot live while the other survives”, proving that Harry was NEVER safe to begin with, the target for death was upon him since birth and Voldemort (or his minions) would come to him sooner or late. Realising this, Dumbledore put all his efforts in protecting AND training Harry for what he believed would come (and it did) since the very start: from the muggle family raising - that was bad to him, however it shielded Harry from the weight of his heavy backstory as much as possible AND developed in him resilience, empathy and an able mindset for hardship, which he absolutely needed to improve his chances of survival for the hard times Dumbledore knew Harry would have to face. The books showed how Dumbledore was grieved by the understanding of how life was tragic for Harry, having lost so much as a baby and yet would face worse in his future, things no other child had to worry about and where there was no escape - the only hope was strategy to prepare him and not burden him beyond necessary, allowing him to enjoy normalcy where possible. As it turned out, Dumbledore predictions were right: Voldemort was alive, trying to come back and leaving a trace of destruction in his attempts, that were closer and closer to Harry each time. When he did manage to fully return by finally getting his hands on Harry REGARDLESS of all Dumbledore best attempts (another proof he doesn’t know it all and wasn’t in control like a God, his calculations were genius but not infallible - which he knew it and worked under that awareness) Voldemort was OBSESSED with the idea of killing Harry and it had to be him to do it - just like Dumbledore expected. It was necessary not only for his survival but also to his ego/image because a great dark wizard that can be defeated by a child cannot be that great, right? So Harry being alive was not only a threat to his life but to this idealisation of his superiority, the very core of the reign of terror he intended to create. ANYWAY, the whole scenario seemed quite hopeless for Harry in a realistic perspective- he was no match in terms of skills, knowledge, power, structure against Voldemort. Dumbledore tried to compensate that as much as possible but he couldn’t fight the fight that would put an end to Voldemort, no one else could, just Harry. HOWEVER being the mastermind he is, Dumbledore realised that Harry never needed any of those things when he 1st defeated Voldemort. All he needed was ancient magic, which was still protecting him btw. Even better: Tom looked down upon this “power of love magic”, making it easier to use it against him - he didn’t understand it and wouldn’t be able to predict it if Dumbledore plans were based in it. And that is exactly what Dumbledore did: from all that he observed and study, he came to the conclusion that if Harry willingly surrendered himself to Voldemort for the purpose of stopping him so people could be saved, it would tap to the power of this ancient magic that honoured sacrificial love - neutralising the power of Avada K. against Harry BUT NOT against the Horcrux in him, that would take the full blow and be destroyed. And just like before, this magic was not only effective for one isolated situation, but it was an everlasting type of power, which is why none of Vold next curses could affect Harry. Unlike Dumbledore, Voldemort assumed he possessed the encompassing knowledge of all that was important and powerful, therefore he didn’t even mind to check if Harry truly died, so confident he was in himself about his planning being flawless. He didn’t study wand bonding. He didn’t study ancient magic and love powered spells, and kept falling into the same mistake repeatedly - as Dumbledore predicted he would. Now that was all Dumbledore deduction, I can’t tell he knew for sure this would be exactly what would happen . But he believed in it enough to put his own life at risk if that was necessary to ensure the right (and the only) circumstances that could save Harry and destroy Voldemort were in place. He didn’t do it alone, but he was the biggest planner, investigator and executor of it. I don’t think any other wizard would have the same dedication, ability and intelligence (mind and emotional) to do it. And he carried all that alone, he never shared it all to a single person and all the while he knew that there was a big chance of him being misunderstood (like Snape did and MANY other reader/movie watchers still do, even though they got the whole picture haha). Yet he made that decision because his priority wasn’t his own life or reputation but the greater good. He also bet it all that Harry shared the same philosophy, since it was necessary that Harry believed he was walking to his death when he made the decision to surrender because that was precisely self sacrifice nobility that would trigger the mysterious ancient magic that would save him and end Vold in a single (but final )move. Once more, his analytical predictions skills were right and even from his grave Dumbledore still lived through his plans that accomplished what he intended and by the people they saved. Yes, Dumbledore was an exceptional human and wizard, problem the best of his time and superior to Tom R. But he wasn’t an all knowing and powerful God that knew the whole picture and its details all along. He worked with his own limitations, doing his best but still leaving room for failure and, ultimately, risks - for him and for those that decided to join him. He was fatally injured by those risks himself when he managed the ring horcrux in the wrong way, reason being: he didn’t know enough about this type of dark magic. But they all decided to take this life risk because they all agreed it would be an even higher risk to let Vold run lose. It wasn’t manipulation but shared sense of importance and urgency over a very real evil, where each member brought their best to the fight.
For this to make any sense, Dumbledore would have needed to know about Voldemort's horcruxes. But its clear that Dumbledore didn't know that they were horcruxes.
It's all very interesting. The theory also sounds plausible. But I question if Dumbledore was that much of a gambler, a risk taker. There seems to me to be too many turns of events that could have turned the tables against Dumbledore. For instance what if Draco Malfoy had succeeded in murdering Dumbledore? What if Riddle/Voldemort had decided to mark Neville Longbottom instead? What if Voldemort had decided not to murder James & Lily Potter, but to bide his time instead?
i like to think that dumbledores plan with tom was to create a new strong ally like he had with grindelwald. in order to pursue dumbledores former ideology of beeing supreme to muggle born . But tom as grindelwald before took it way to far so dumbledore had to screw that plan . So late on he needed harry to make up for his mistake of creating lord voldemort
was Dumbledore a manipulator yes, did he manipulate tom.. most likely. did he set tom on the way of horcruxes, i dont think so. when we find out that voldy is doing horcruxes, it is expressed that Dumbledore was also surprised. why would he act surprised if it was part of his plan from the start? it does nothing if harry knew dumbldeore knew or didnt.
You always post intriguing, thought provoking videos. Thank you! I believe Dumbledore could have helped Tom, but he didn't care at all about this child. Didn't attempt to emphasize with him, to understand him. Wrote him off as 'evil' from the first meeting. Believed the words of the Muggle caretaker without questions. Dumbledore set his wardrobe on fire to scare the young boy! Great first impression, eh? /s Imho there's no need to theorize that Dumbledore purposefully planned to turn Tom into the next dark lord - in 1938 his dear old friend Gellert Grindelwald was still going strong, after all, or that he planted any books on Horcruxes. These books were already there in the Hogwarts library. Only for academic purposes, of course! It's damming enough that Dumbledore didn't do anything at all to stop Tom's spiralling decent into darkness. As the Transfigurations teacher and Deputy headmaster Dumbledore personally knew hundreds or possibly even thousands of magical people. He could have discussed it with Headmaster Dippet and Tom's Head of House, Professor Slughorn. Explain that Tom Riddle is an orphan stuck in a bad situation in the Muggle world. The responsible adults could - imho - have found another home in Hogsmeade or somewhere else for Tom (and the handful of other Muggleborn or half-blood students in a similar dire situation like Tom, or those keen to escape from abusive family or guardians) to stay temporarily over the summer. If Dumbledore can conjure hundreds of sleeping bags like in book 3 in an instant, he should be able to conjure basic furniture and bedding sets in some simple cottage, or transfer some stuff from Hogwarts, to make it fit to live in for two summer months for a small group of children and teens. (Thousands of Muggles children were evacuated during WW2 from the south of England towards the north, because of the German attacks, after all!) Instead they (I don't blame only Dumbledore for this cruel negligence, this 'oversight', but also Slughorn, Dippet and the whole Ministry of Magic) sent this already troubled child - and presumably other students too - back into an orphanage in Muggle London after first year, and continued to do this even after the outbreak of WW2. At a time when the Blitz and later the V2 attacks were destroying plenty of buildings in London, Coventry and many other British cities and towns, killing or maiming tens of thousands of people... Ships crossing the North Sea or Atlantic Ocean were sunk, attacked with torpedoes by German U-Boots. Air planes defending Britain were shot down. Many soldiers were wounded or killed in battle daily. Tom would have seen plenty of destruction, the devastating effects of the Muggles weapons, smelled the rotten stink of the river Thames, heard terrifying tales told by adults and children, heard the radio broadcasts and probably also read newspapers each time he returned to London. But adult fully trained wizards apparently are able to shield, to ward their homes against such destructive forces, the Ministry of Magic, Diagon Alley, Hogwarts and Hogsmeade... otherwise more wizard folk would have been worried about and bothered by this Muggles war. This is something that baffles me still. Why did JKR write it this way?! It's so outrageous, so illogical! How can the teachers and students at Hogwarts and their families at home, scattered all over the British isles, NOT have heard at least rumours of the ongoing Muggles war?! Nazi Germany? Battle of Britain? And later, about Pearl harbor? Nagasaki, Hiroshima?! When at the same time Grindelwald was supposedly terrorising Germany and mainland Europe? In any case, Tom was a very talented young wizard who fiercely hated, loathed Muggles - for a reason. Please, take a moment to wonder why? Plenty of fanfic have explored what might have happened to him in the eleven years before Dumbledore arrived, that shaped Tom's twisted character. Consider nobody ever cared for this boy. He was an orphan, a nobody, a burden on the system, the unwanted son of an unknown destitute tramp woman, who died in childbirth. No father or other relatives ever showed up to claim Tom. He was worthless in the eyes of society. But he himself felt different, special. Not the same as the others. Tom had to constantly fight to survive in this environment. Soon, possibly even in his first year of life, some unexplained, weird stuff began to happen at the orphanage. The other kids and the caretakers were confused, scared, the kids ganged up on him, he defended himself, the staff was punishing Tom to get him under their control... In return Tom's accidental magic is lashing out, again, a vicious cycle. Until he learns to use his weird supernatural powers with purpose to scare the Muggles, to strike back at them... In the memory scene in the book HBP it's pretty clear that Tom feared at first that Dumbledore was a doctor, a person planning to take him away to Bedlam, an insane asylum, because the Muggles in charge of the orphanage - and probably some clerical people who knew of Tom too - or had probably already attempted an exorcism!? - thought of him as a freak, someone abnormal, a disturbed, possessed, devil's child. We are told that Tom was scared of death. No wonder. During summer holidays Tom, like any other Muggleborn or half-blood child living with Muggles wasn't allowed to use any magic. No way to defend himself from any Muggle attacks, to shield from bomb or rocket blasts. At the orphanage young Tom surely witnessed several kids dieing from malnutrition and common diseases like Measles or tuberculosis year after year. Not long ago, the Great War, WW1, plus the Spanish Flu had killed many millions of people. He would have heard about this too as a child. Is it a wonder that he researched his heritage - who an I? who were my parents? is there an opportunity to get power to escape this life for me? and Dark magic methods of immortality as soon as he could?
Dumbledore turned to the Dursley's once more: "As you will no doubt be aware, Harry comes of age in a year's time. It is therefore essential that you will do everything in your power to prevent him from succumbing to alcohol" Harry: "Sir, what are you-" "To prevent him from becoming an alcoholic at all cost", Dumbledore repeated. "But sir-" But Dumbledore held his hand up in polite refusal to discuss the matter further.
WOW! I love that theory or at least parts of it. No doubt Albus Dumbledore was a master manipulator but I don't think he intended to make Tom evil on purpose. Yes I know Tom was already evil but I think that in the beginning Dumbledore hoped to give the boy a chance for better life. Only when he saw in what direction Tom is marching he manipulated and annoyed him a lot. And if your theory is true that means he also manipulated Slughorn in the process. But I think Slughorn may had dark wizards in his family and therefore knew about dark magic and decided to be different.
Dumbledore probably did not want to kill anyone. Knew too much of what it would do to his own soul. So this theory makes sense. It's also possible that there was some hope that the child would change for the better in the new school environment. But if not, then the plan was always to (mis)guide him to his fate.
I know killing a child is distasteful, but Voldemort filled literal graveyards with the people he killed. From a cursory look on the internet, he killed at _LEAST_ 170 people, and that's just confirmed kills. I absolutely think Dumbledore should have executed Tom Riddle the moment it became apparent that was the kind of path he was on. Sure, he wouldn't have known right in the orphanage, but given Voldemort's complete lack of empathy, it was likely fairly clear quite early on that he was going to be a horrible dark wizard.
@@mlpfanboy1701 No, but once his first murder came to light, Dumbledore should have hunted him down and executed him. To be fair, though, that's a whole other discussion. If you could prevent a tragedy, should you? That's hard to answer, because what if the prevention of one tragedy allows for an even greater tragedy to happen? So yeah, it's possible that without a Lord Voldemort, an even more evil witch or wizard would have risen.
Quite the interesting theory. But a few things do seem out of place! I get that Dumbledore set it all for an undoing in the long run, but why let so much destruction happen? Knowing that people would be killed. To make the horcruxes, and why he would let that happen? I like the idea of him trying to give him a better chance in life by offering him a place in hogwarts, but the flip side of only giving him a place for him to be killed later on genius, but cruel! He could have just abliviated him at the orphanage, and given him something that would have permanently kept him under an imperious curse. However I do love what you came out with, and not painting Dumbledore as a villain, but someone who is willing to wipe out evil no matter the cost then I do see why he'd have let such devastating things happen, and I see how that would have played on his mind. It does also kind of play into the time travelling Dumbledore theory as well where Dumbledore might have gone to the future, and seen how things played out, and then gone back to put measures in place to bring forth Voldemorts down fall. I love what you have done, and do please for your next video give a theory on how Dumbledore knew about the eventual return of Lord Voldemort fitting into this current theory. I'd love to hear what you have to say! ❤
Nah Dumbledore is not this cleaver, neither this cruel. He might have had his suspicions about Tom from the start. But hope he would be proven wrong by Tom. Like of his friend Grindelwald. But it is interesting he would put so much stock in the prophecy about Harry. That might be a fault in D character, It make him free of responsibility in his inaction and action he would do with Harry and distance himself from things as it was with Grindelwald and death of his sister.
the only flaw i see in this…why did slughorn not blame dumbledore when harry wanted the memory in half blood prince if dumbledore told him everything about horcruxes
Love it🙏 Dumbledore the ultimate puppetmaster of the whole series. When I first encountered Dumbledore, I thought he was simply a lovely, wise, elderly wizard. That's the pure genius of Joanne Rowling's writing and how layered it is. We obviously find out later that Dumbledore isn't afraid of Voldemort for the following reasons : 1.He had Tom Riddle's / Voldemort's number the day he met him in the orphanage 2. Dumbledore could have continued down his path of dark magic with his friend/lover Grindlewald but he ultimately chose not. Thus, the famous quote that Dumbledore told Harry (just paraphrase) : it's our choices not our capabilities that's takes us to our destiny (words to that effect, obviously not the exact quote). 3.If we go with this theory that Dumbledore did point Tom Riddle into the direction of Horcruxes, Dumbledore knew exactly what he done, where as, had Dumbledore not played a hand in this, Dumbledore wouldn't have had any control over what Voldemort was doing. Has there been a previous video on Professor Slughorn on this channel? I would love to know more about him please. 🙏
dumbledore was an Alchemist at heart. He didn't do things for "good" as we first understood as pre-teens and teens. He did EVERYTHING from little TR to little HP simply to watch, document, analyse and resolve things as they unfold. A great example of this is the aftermath of harry's name appearing on the goblet of fire.
Well, regardless of however much point there is in theorizing about the content of a fantasy novel, I cannot help but consider the idea of a wise man being content with having so many lives destroyed just to put an end to a single, potential adversary, albeit the embodiment of evil, to be far fetched. To say the least.
I never saw anywhere that he did that. On the contrary, he hid the book in his office. It was not in the restricted section. You are right. He would not have planted a book so Tom Ridle could become so evil and kill lots of people so that more than one of him had to be killed. I don’t get it.
Lets accept for a moment that this theory has some truth then it's "I'm going to take this untrained wizard who if stays in a muggle world will be able to do some nasty things but will stay untrained and his magical abilities will be dull compared to an educated wizard , then educate him perfectly well giving him all access to the most powerful normal and dark magic, refine his abilities , socialise him with fellow wizards which can manipulate , make him prefect so he can have even more influence to others ,let him roam the school open the chamber of secrets set up Hagrid , then roam the magical world set up his network of nazi-wizards let him gain immense power terrorise torture and murder for years, have magical items hidden who knows where that keeps him in this world which he murdered real people to create just because one day I might have managed to manipulate another underage wizard to destroy his horcruxes if he finds them and finds how too do so and then after all those horrible years and stuff the soul of the dark wizard will be fractured and weak." ain't that completely stupid an uneducated Tom might have become a dangerous thug maybe even a serial killer but the educated one was a dark lord a dictator who terrorised a whole country and this because of those things he learned and the socialising he did in magical school. A good "manipulation" tactic for avoiding dark lords would be better guarding the restricted session in school library , not allowing prejudiced ideas as "pureblood" ideas are to be spread at school and having a curiculum to oppose them and also keeping an eye on students antisocial behavior and act to correct it p.e. like not let them bully or curse one another for fan or any reason those would be a good start. What I would consider possible is that Dumbledore saw Tom as a troubled youth but not evil , and wanted to reform Tom , make him good and manipulate Tom to use him against Grindelwald whom he didn't want to duel himself , maybe even teach him about horcruxes in the fear that Grindelwald had already made one himself so that Tom would manage to destroy it but when he saw that Tom became more evil the more magic he learned, and also was so intrigued by horcruxes in the bad way then Dumbledore saw how evil Tom was and abandoned the plan and faced Grindelwald himself but as about giving Tom the tools to become a new dictator the harm had already been done and there wasn't a way to undo that, like a failed manipulation effort that gone bad (and proves why manipulation is a bad strategy)
Creating a horcrux invovled murder, so I don't think Dumbledore would purposely place a path for Tom Riddle that required him to murder others. Plus, if he made Slughorn give the info to Tom Riddle, he would have conversed with Slughorn about Sluggy's conversation with Tom Riddle way back when Tom was still in school.
This theory makes a lot of sense. Specially knowing how Dumbledore manipulated Harry as well. Maybe Voldemort was a failed case that went out of his control and he carried on with Harry to achieve glory for himself, but ultimately his remorse for Ariana's death made him commit a deadly mistake and he didn't have any other choice than to change plans and let Harry be victorious.
If only Dumbledor had been a posiive role model in Tom's life then Tom may not have become so evil. Tom could have just become a wizard like Sirus Black. I know. Let's leave the restricted section unguarded and allow the most powerful wizard of that time to be tempted and coruppted. This is bad for Dumbledor.
If even half of the rumored theories are remotely true about Dumbledore and harry it may have been a good thing he got the killing curse from Snape it's really disturbing that Dumbledore had no quims about sacrificing numerous members of the order and civilians to achieve his designs sacrificing the potter's and the longbottoms for his gains who is to say that he didn't just take the cloak from James potter's corpse then returned to school and ordered hagrid to get baby harry so his machinations to start I like to wonder if the reason for the order to start the first time was to purposely handicap the nation for willing stooges and toadies cause he is a great man who can deny his wisdom he may have had thoughts to take out riddle and harry members of the da and install whoever was left for his ultimate regime possibly pardon the death esters that lived and put them somewhere he could keep and eye on them and go about on his mercy way to do whatever he wanted here's a question even if he was truly in love with gellert Grindelwald why did he take so long to get either around the blood pact or destroy it till Grindelwald was almost at full power on the mainland to take action that is curious indeed
Love it! Not sure dumbly knew it was horcruxes though. Not sure WHY there WOULD be a book on them at all but it makes more sense that it was planted than it was JUST THERE. but manipulation of harry to manipulate slughorn JUST to find out they were infact horcruxes after he destroyed one seems far fetched. And him destroying one not knowing what it was leading to his death kinda disproves he planted the book. But, i do buy he setup Tom, not to make him easier to kill but bc Dumbledore wanted fame before his death. he recruited Tom before he knew his lover was gonna be his biggest opponent so my guess was he was constantly recruiting potential opponents so that he could make a name for himself before his own death, which he did. So i think his entire tenure at Hogwarts, including harry, was all to recruit potential opponents for him to famously duel with his secret Elder wand
He could have also walked inside the orphanage and bombard Tom Riddle with Avada Kedavra a bit. Just a few dozen times to make sure he is dead. Problem solved.
It is a fair point about inviting Riddle to Hogwarts to keep an eye on him. Grindelwald was still about in those days, away from Hogwarts he might have been found by Grindelwald and trained by him.
I watched the video three times. As a scholar, I am used to dissection arguments. The first time I thought, 'pff, this is rubbish.' The second time I thought, 'this is pure genius; things must have happened thusly.' The third time I was able to see that this is an excellent, very refined, but ultimately unconvincing, intellectual exercise. Shout out to you, my friend!!! I give you my take on it: every theory, every explanation (especially in literary studies and criticism) has to be grounded on one principle, economy. This is clear in Umberto Eco 'Lector in Fabula" (but also 'Six Walks in the Fictional Woods'). This is where your theory fails, in my modest opinion. Why not go for something more manageable, say obliviate him in the orphanage? Why do not frame him after the opening of the Chamber of Secrets (veritaserum or other methods) to prevent a massive murder from taking over the Wizarding World? If his ultimate goal was stopping him, then your theory falls short in explaining why he did take the longest, most perilous, and uncertain way to do so. I offer a slightly different take on Dumbledore's intentions that fits with and would make perfect sense of your theory: Dumbledore did not want to stop Riddle. He wanted to amuse himself with the Wizarding World and see how it reacted with a chaotic element like Riddle in it. The world was Dumbledore's playground, and that's why he behaved as you hypothesize in your video: he wanted to see how far Dark Magic could go in such a talented example as Riddle. Then, when Riddle overlooked Lily's Ancient Magic and defeated himself, Dumbledore was disappointed and decided that the experiment was over. He started playing with another puppet (Harry) to destroy his former amusement (Riddle). What do you think? In any case, one of your best videos, from an affectionate viewer (and recently member) of your channel!
I had the same thought whilst watching the video that dumbledore wanted to play with these ppl bt then cld he do that he wasn’t a person that would do that,as been described,bt i see that ur point of ‘amusing himself’ cld b valid as we know the story through Harry’s perspective and we don’t know much abt dumbledore either
"Raised like a pig for slaughter" is always taken out of context. Those were Snape's words, not Dumbledore's and Dumbledore didn't correct Snape because Harry needed to believe he was going to die. The look of triumph Dumbledore gets at the end of book 4 when he finds out Voldemort used Harry's blood to complete the spell only makes sense if Dumbledore wanted a way for Harry, the "pig", to survive the slaughter.
Slughorn's "memory" of telling Riddle about horcruces was manipulated. It was Dumbledore who told Riddle and then put the fake memory in Slughorn's mind
Tom riddle was a troubled child from the beginning, and Dumbledore knew that. That's why Dumbledore kept an eye on Riddle. As Riddle learned about his past and heritage, he basically grew angrier and angrier. His father, being a muggle and wanting nothing to do with Tom, probably added to his Hatred of muggles.
Dumbledore was certainly manipulative, there is no questioning that. To have secretly guided Tom Riddle to making Horcruxes though? That's a very interesting idea. To believe that, you would have to accept the idea that Dumbledore knew Riddle was both capable of and willing to comit murder and that Dumbledore was willing to accept those murders. For the greater good is a phrase that haunts Dumbledore and this theory sounds like a perfect example of that. Dumbledore accepts that Riddle will not only murder people to achieve his goals, but he will do so in ways that he is able to get away with. That's a pretty big leap of faith by Dumbledore that allowing Riddle to get away with murder would make him easier to defeat in the longrun.
Its theorized that the horcrux books were already in the restricted section when armondo dipit was the headmaster. Dumbledore took it out when he took office
My biggest issue with this theory is that he wouldn't have done nothing once Myrtle died. Plus if he was really keeping that close an eye on him, even if he didn't notice Myrtle was his victim, he would have noticed when all of his family dies. This means either we give Dumbledore too much credit or he let's lots of people die for just the right moment to strike. I don't think he would have hesitated to subdue Tom if he had actual evidence and really knew.
I think there’s a couple of problems, first your dates are off, Tom didn’t open the chamber until his fifth year, but even aside from that, Wasn’t headmaster until well after Tom graduated, in the books make clear that Dumbledore was not in a position to remove the four books from the library until he was headmaster, further if Dumbledore guided Slughorn into the Horrix conversation already know Dumbledore you Slughorn help Tom in that conversation in which case he would have no reason to make the false memory where he didn’t help
I think your theory is correct. In 'the half blood Prince' Dumbledore tasks Harry to find out Slughorns secret. When they do, Dumbledore seems shocked to learn Voldemort made horcruxes. But in 'Deathly Hallows' we see in Snapes memory that Dumbledore knew all along that Harry was a horcrux. Now it's possible that he thought that it was basically an accident and Voldemort didn't even know about horcruxes. But in 'chamber of secrets' he says Tom Riddles diary held apart of him, (a horcrux) and he knew enough to destroy the ring, and look for the locket. If Dumbledore did indeed know about the horcruxes and only feigned ignorance then he had Harry "discover" the secret and set him on the mission to find and destroy the rest so when Harry realizes that he is a horcrux he'll be more able to accept that he has to die. It would also mean that he knew from the beginning that Voldemort was using horcruxes but he sent Harry to find out /how many/ he had created and Slughorn confirms this with his memory in the pensive when Tom asks about how many times the soul could be split and he gives the "theoretical" number seven to Slughorn, who is rightfully horrified at the thought.
Yeah, but there is one thing that pokes a hole into this theory. "Did I know that I had just met the most dangerous dark wizard in the world? No." Dumbledore admits that he had no idea of how dangerous Voldemort was going to be. Besides, how does leading him to create horcruxes make him easier to defeat? It actually just makes the process more difficult because before the final battle, all the horcruxes need to be destroyed. Unless you wanna go as far as to say that Dumbledore predicted the birth of the Chosen One and the entire plot of the books was his plan from the day he met Riddle, which would be very far-fetched, not to say impossible.
idk if you've done a video on this or anything but do you think that if either Tom's father actually loved his mother or if tom stayed with his mom or other family rather than at the orphanage, that tom would have turned out differently? or maybe he'd just be a slightly smaller scale of what he turned out to be?
There are many mistakes here! Albus Dumbledore is not a manipulative man, he is a good wizard and very wise by nature and had a wise mind. in the head. He was the headmaster of the school of witchcraft and wizardry in the castle "Hogwarts". He had the Vulcan (bird) Phoenix. And the hat that chooses houses. And the Sword of Gryffindor. His best friend is Professor of Dark Arts (the half-blood prince) Severus Snape (Slytherin). And all the teachers liked Albus very much. The only one who didn't like him is: Tom Riddle Junior (Marvolo) a family member of the Gaunt family (full blood witches). Like, for example, his birth mother (biologically) Menrope. His Father a Muggle blood born. Tom Junior who changes his name to Prince Voldemort (evil wizard) Also known as the Dark Lord. With the help of a drop of blood from Harry Potter, Tom Riddle Senior bone(scaly bones). Under the direction of his help assistant (loyal) Peter Pettigrew also known as worm tail (Vormtail). (Gryffindor). Tom Jr. (Riddle) is the true Manipulator by nature. Because he has no empathy and care for others (those he naturally hates and dislikes). Especially Muggles. He also knew Parseltongue (snake language). Hear them and understand them. (Which are the abilities in the Gaunt family). The only thing Albus Dumbledore did was visit him as a young boy at the Orphanage he was born in (birth home to Tom Jr. (Riddle)). And welcomed him as a student at Hogwarts. Everything else that happened, Tom Jr. (Riddle) did all by himself out of free will. Because he wanted to eliminate everyone he hated and didn't like. By Nature.
This theory would indicate that Dumbledore was always a dark wizard; manipulating Riddle to learn about horcruxes guarantees at least one murder by him, and the possibility of several. Everything about Dumbledore indicates a person who has made mistakes in the past and has firmly rejected the philosophy that caused those errors. I agree that Dumbledore was keeping an eye on Riddle, but I don't believe he would deliberately make him a worse person.
I think some people in the comments may have the wrong idea. From a few i read i get the impression that they think op is implying that Big D pulled the strings that made tom riddle into voldy. However i think what op is getting at is Big D knew tom would become evil and get immortality regardless of what he did, so he put the book there so that when the time came he would know what kind of immortality voldy had. Magic is very hard to defend against if you have absolutly 0 clue about how and what that magic is. He purposfully gave him this book(put in library) so he COULD be defeated.
Well, firstly, that makes sense. Slughorn told Tom that Dumbledore was fiercely against knowledge of horcuxes not be even discussed at Hogwarts. How would Horace know that? He would know it if he had had a conversation with Dumbledore previously. Secondly, Merlin's saggy boxers! Have you ever heard of a long term "plan" where more things could go wrong? What if Voldemort',s horcuxes couldn't be found and destroyed? Like if he made an empty Coke can a horcrux and then dropped it into the middle of the Atlantic ocean? If Dumbledore was playing a long game of manipulation with either TR or HP he was willing to accept an almost astronomical number of things that could and probably would go wrong. Not a good plan at all.
This would fit well with the theory the Dumbledore is Death from the Three Brothers. Create a wizard that brings about a LOT of death during his rise to power and subsequent downfall....
The timeline in which Voldemort makes his horcrux makes no sense to me. Because whenever he kills Myrtle he makes a horcrux from the diary. When he got the ring he used morfin to kill the father and grandparents. Voldemort had the ring when he was talking to slughorn about making horcruxes. So I think he had already made two and then wanted to know if he could make more if it was safe or if he should stop there
Its possible that Dumbledore being the visionary that he was, saw that the Wizarding World needed some drastic changes. After all the MOM was corrupt and ineffectual, most wizards were racist towards muggle-borns and non human magicians. And then we have to consider that Hogwarts itself was pretty backwards and stuck in tradition. Things needed to change. And while Dumbledore might have been able to make sweeping reforms as minister, I think even he realized it would take more than him stepping up into a position of authority to bring lasting changes to Britain's wizarding society. Something drastic had to be done, that was to create a great enemy the Wizarding World can unite behind and defeat.
Thanks for watching folks! Check out my last 3 videos as well!:
Why Didn't Dumbledore HUNT Voldemort Down?: ruclips.net/video/h2xlzYvDtR8/видео.html
The Story of Voldemort's Daughter: ruclips.net/video/HKSLBD3wRZo/видео.html
How Harry Resisted EVERY Unforgivable Curse: ruclips.net/video/Z-YzYHlcZ4U/видео.html
Note: Dumbledore had zero say in whether or not Tom Riddle attended Hogwarts - he wasn’t even the headmaster. And not even the headmaster gets a say. That is up to the Quill of Acceptance and the Book of Admittance with the Book of Admittance getting the final say.
I'm just thinking that this probably wasn't the case. Because if Dumbledore had put that book about Horcruxes for Tom Riddle to find, then why at a later point would have needed to search for Horace Slughorn's true memory of the encounter?
Hey can you please tell me the name of the background music you used in this video ?
lets not forget dumbleedore had other thing on hand tobeside riddle jr like help newt scamander and friends and hendry potters dealing with his from lover gallert grindelwald who had start revolution army call alliance was also add power durring those times 1942 until 1945 add world war 2
I think it’s way easier to just kill someone than guide them to near immortality to kill them later
But didnt it have to be Voldemort who killed him to fulfill the prophecy?
Dumbledore could not and would not kill a child or anyone else for that matter.
Dumbledore probably did not want to kill anyone. Knew too much of what it would do to his own soul. So this theory makes sense. It's also possible that there was some hope that the child would change for the better in the new school environment. But if not, then the plan was always to (mis)guide him to his fate.
@@rahullak So instead, Dumbledore let a multitude of other people die by allowing Voldemort to murder them, or his followers to murder them. In the real world, you go to jail if you have the opportunity to stop a capital crime but don't.
@@rikk319 It isn't the real world is it? You don't have people able to do incredible dark stuff with immortality in the real world. Central to this theory is that Voldemort was so irredeemable that the only way to end him was to (mis)guide him to final death. Or face the prospect of his immortal self killing many many more and never dying.
The first problem that I see with this theory is that it maintains that Dumbledore wouldn't kill a young Tom Riddle. However, he would stand aside and let Tom Riddle kill six other people. At least one of them, Myrtle, a child herself. Anyone capable of doing the second would have been capable of doing the first.
Myrtle was Riddle's first kill
I agree. Dumbledore wasn’t headmaster when Tom was learning about Horcruxes. I think this is a very important fact J.K. shows us. I don’t think there would have been such information in the library with Dumbledore as headmaster. I also don’t think there’s any way he plants a book called ‘Secrets of the Darkest Art’ for a student to find.
Dumbledore didn't have enough evidence against riddle at the time. Plus he had already made Horcruxes. And when Voldemort started wrecking havoc, Tom Riddle basically dropped off the face of the Earth. Dumbledore knew almost everything from the beginning, but due to not fully knowing how many Horcruxes Riddle might've made, killing him wouldn't be very helpful, would it? Dumbledore wasn't a killer, he defeated Grindelwald, but Dumbledore didn't kill him.
The theory of dumbledore raising Harry and controlling his life isn’t really a theory, it’s the entire plot of the story
Dumbledore didn't tell Harry much because Dumbledore was afraid certain knowledge would corrupt Harry. Kinda like Riddle. Plus Dumbledore noticed that Harry shared a core with Voldemort, most likely in the second book, when he learned Harry could speak to snakes. So he was also trying to keep secrets from Voldemort.
Hired Lockhard just to teach Harry a lesson. Screw every other student and their learning.
@@sandro5535 actually, Dumbledore hired Lockhart to hopefully get him exposed. Because several things Lockhart claimed to have done, Dumbledore knew who actually did them, thus knowing Lockhart was a fraud. After all, the defense against the dark arts job was cursed, I'm guessing Dumbledore was going to use that to expose him. But Harry and Ron ended up doing it for him 🤣
@@Larka661 Guess thats kinda fair. Also why Snape was finally allowed once his use was over.
@@Larka661also, Harry does have a dark side. Think about him mutilating Malfoy or using the cruciatus curse on multiple occasions. Dumbledore didn't want to tempt him in any way.
No, I don’t believe that Dumbledore planted the book in restricted section. The book was already there. Slughorn was aware of this dark magic before only and mentioned that Dumbledore was against the very subject of Horcrux. When Dumbledore becamethe headmaster, one of the first steps he took was removing those books from the restricted section and keeping them in his office.
Dumbledore would have had no final say over the library content as Dippit was the hm at the time. He was suspicious of Harry being a horcrux from birth. Hence why there were no books left in the library.. he was already trying to figure out what riddle had did incase he returned
If Dumbledore had that level of Precognition then Ariana would have never died and he and Grindelwald would have succeeded in overthrowing the Ministry of Magic.
If Dumbledore manipulated Tom to use horcruxes. Why would he need Harry to extract that knowledge from Slughorn? Doesn't make sense.
He didn't need it.
It was to manipulate Harry!
😂
He didn't want to tell Harry.. He wanted him to know it by himself
@@navis_6383 This wouldn't explain why Dumbledore was after the memory even before Harry was born...
So many comments with complex args against this theory, but this is the #1 simple flaw of it
@@LeoVS44 also the fact that Dumbledore wasn’t able to remove the books until he became headmaster, meaning until then, several books, including secrets of the darkest art were left in the restricted section available to anyone with authorization to go there
I know Dumbledore was a good manipulator, but i dont see Dumbledore setting Tom Riddle up to become lord Voldemort.
Its likely he was keeping a close eye on Tom and hoping to find any excuse to get him sent to Azkaban. However Tom Riddle turned out to be far more slippery than he could imagine.
I mean I know he was trying to get tom caught
Come on riddle was already a fledgling sociopath fits right there in his dorm in wools all he really needed was a teensy tiny little boost a nudge in the right direction riddle was a genius all the teachers fell under his spell and with his good grades and his silver tongue he could get away with anything think for a moment he could have channeled that into anything he wanted the world was his for the taking he could have became a member of society he could have worked under the government to become a high ranking member he could have discovered numerous things either forgotten or lost look at how he found the cup he sweet talked the old lady and conned her elf to take her out of the picture and poofed the cup away imagine how he could have used that tongue to sweet talk any owner to part with their relic he could have done who knows what but the display by Dumbledore on his dresser on his letter day of his few things that were exclusively his alone turned him away from positively channeling his illness into twisted hate for all and any other bumps and nudges the old man gave him set him on the destructive path that we know and understand
@@jayduffy5532 The question is why?? Are you saying that Dumbledore was bored after defeating Grindelwald and he was like" lemme manipulate this weird teenager to become the next dark lord, it has been so boring in the wizard World without a great villain. I can then play the saviour again, who cares if Innumerable people die "😂😂
P.S: Actually on his dresser, many of the items belonged to other students and Dumbledore only asked to return what did not belong to Riddle
@@Hari-kx2er good question. Why? Let's say Dumbledore did set the clock into motion. What if some part of him (a tiny residual darkness) was curious about horcruxes and planned this whole experiment. Around that time, it was probably him or big G who can attempt such a thing, but why risk his own life for an experiment. This is where Tom comes in. Although this theory is quite off canon, it's fun to think about.
One point that weakens this theory is Dumbledore's strong insistence that Harry retrieve the Horcrux memory from Slughorn. If this theory is correct he wouldn't have really needed that and he could have tested Harry in some other way.
It could be that he needed to know how many horcruxes Voldemort has made, and with that, he can plan accordingly
@@shadow-lr8xg yes, Dumbledore knew Voldemort had made Horcruxes basically from the beginning. He just needed Slughorn's memory to know how many Voldemort made. Hell, Dumbledore knew Voldemort could and would return at the very beginning. His killing curse may have rebounded, but his soul was safe, if he had no Horcruxes, Voldemort would've died and there would be no story.
He knew Harry held the Felix potion.
@@Larka661 eh, I don't buy that. The memory they retrieved was from before Voldemort had made any horcruxes, there's little reason to believe that just because Tom mentioned making 7 back then that that's how many he was going to make, he could have later decided to make more or fewer than that. Case in point, as far as Voldemort was aware he only made 6, as Harry being one was an accident. Further, there's no reason that Dumbledore would know or think that Voldemort would have told Slughorn how many he was eventually going to create.
Yes. Dumbledore wouldn't go through all this trouble of puppeteering Voldemort to not knowing how many horcruxces he would make
I will have to say, Dumbledore definitely was manipulative, he's not a bad person so to say, but rather seems to try to do it for either the greater good, or knowledge.
An that verry thing say all villain to him selff😂
This speaks volumes
Yeah he's neutral good I guess?
Until Harry’s 4th year, there was no scenario where Harry would be able to live if Voldemort would be destroyed. It’s harsh, but that was the reality. It was Voldemort’s foolish idea to use Lilly Potter’s blood that gave Harry a chance to live in the end.
If you had been Dumbledore, what would you have done? Keep Harry safe while tons of people are killed by Riddle?
@@Zeke_O3773 they used Harry's blood
Wasn't the whole premise of the last two books that it was supposed to be super difficult to kill Voldemort because you had to find his horcruxes and destroy them before you actually kill Voldemort and his body?
How would setting Voldemort up to make 7 horcruxes make it easier to defeat him?
because the more horcruxes you make, the weaker your soul becomes. Or that’s what this theory suggested, that Dumbledore wanted Voldemort to become as fragil in his soul as possible
@@danielleos3593 of course the fling all of this is that no matter how fragile your soul becomes in that scenario, it’s still anchored to this world, making him harder to kill somebody with a completely pure soul like Harry (apart from the sacrificial protection)
Yes, Dumbledore didn't tell Harry everything, just like he didn't tell anyone else everything (just ask Aberforth). But there is an even better reason that this theory does not work out:
It would require a *lot* of knowledge about the upcoming decades, it might even require Dumbledore knowing that there might be a prophecy coming to help put Voldemort away (it's not as if Dumbledore and the Order of the Phoenix were anywhere close to dealing with this problem on their own). Voldemort got far too close to winning that war, if it was all planned ahead there should have been some kind of fail-safe.
Which is weird since he’s the strongest wizard in the world plus has the elder wand. Big D could’ve soloed groups of death eaters at a time so I don’t understand how they were having a tough time of it.
@@gargoyles9999 Dumbledore is a teacher, first and foremost. The Ministry was the "other side" of the war, and with Barty Crouch Jr., they had infiltrated the very family of the one who had to organize the fight. Whatever the aurors were planning, Voldemort would get informed in advance.
And the Death Eaters would have been stronger if Voldemort had ever been willing to fight together with his Death Eaters, instead of either the Death Eaters fighting or him.
I find the theory interesting, but I am not convinced by it. Firstly, I don't think it was really Dumbledore's decision to offer Tom a place at Hogwarts. There are a quill and a book who choose the candidates and Dumbledore was not headmaster yet. Could he really just come back and say: "I didn't like the kid, so I chose not to offer him a place at Hogwarts."? Secondly the idea of manipulating Voldemort into making Horcruxes would only make sense if Dumbledore kept a close enough eye on Voldemort to find the Horcruxes and destroy them. If Voldemort believed to be immortal but wasn't, then it would be a weakness. But this is not what happened. When Dumbledore died years after Voldemort made the Horcruxes four of them (five if you include Harry) were still intact. Thirdly when he discusses Horcruxes with Tom Slughorn says that they are a banned subject at Hogwarts and Dumbledore is particularly fierce about it. This makes sense if several teachers knew about them and Dumbledore didn't want the students to know about them. But it doesn't make sense if teachers didn't know about them. How would this happen? Did Dumbledore approach one day Slughorn and tell him: "Don't tell students about Horcruxes." Slughorn: "I don't even know what a Horcrux is." Dumbledore: "I will explain it to you in detail, so you know exactly what you shouldn't teach the students."? If Horcruxes were a banned subject and Dumbledore was responsibble for the ban and I don't see why Slughorn would lie to Tom about this, then it would be very suspiscous for him to explain them to Slughorn.
100% agree with you plus If Dumbledore set Slughorn to give info to Tom about horcruxes then why he needed the memory and why even Slughorn had to modify it in the first place it doesn't make sense.
Agreed. Also, why would Dumbledore spend so long gathering the memories to figure things out, if he was the mastermind all along? He didn't need them to persuade Harry either, as he could've just told Harry who blindly would follow his orders regardless
@@annavafeiadou4420 IIRC Dumbledore wanted to know how many horcruxes Tom intended to make. And Slughorn modified his memory because of shame. If Dumbledore explained to Slughorn about horcrux and told him not to teach it to students, and Slughorn did just that because he liked Tom --> Then it's understandable Slughorn would deny everything when Dumbledore asked him.
Couldn't have put it better myself. The whole of Slytherin house wouldn't have attended Harry and co's 7 years at Hogwarts save one, Malfoy, if Dumbledore had been in a position to choose who went to Hogwarts and who did not.
Also, creating a horcrux invovled murder, so I don't think Dumbledore would purposely place a path for Tom Riddle that required him to murder others. Plus, if he made Slughorn give the info to Tom Riddle, he would have conversed with Slughorn about Sluggy's conversation with Tom Riddle way back when Tom was still in school.
Yeah - this one is really out there. I am no fan of Dumbledore. However, I think the time when Dumbledore visited Riddle in the orphanage he figured out he was a trouble kid but I don't think he had any clue how far it would go. I can't imagine that any teacher (he was not yet the headmaster) would willingly invite someone they knew was destined to be a dark wizard to a school for children. I believe he thought the school could help the young orphan and direct him to a better life.
My issue with this theory is: what's the point of the entire The Half-Blood Prince book/movie then, if not to retrieve Slughorn's unaltered memory for the pensieve? How does that play in?
Dumbledore knew about the Horcruxes, but he needed Slughorn's memory to have an idea of how many Voldemort made. Plus, since Harry was (unknowingly) a Horcrux, he could Sense the others. Harry got more information in the 6th book than any of the others. That's why he basically sent Harry to find and destroy them.
@@Larka661 I've been rereading the series, and when I got through Half-Blood Prince I realized this is true. I've watched the movies far more so what I was remembering was how the fake memory in the movie muffles the word "Horcrux." I was just assuming it was the same in the book. As for this theory, I do still question why Dumbledore would intentionally allow any student, especially one he thought would grow up to become a dark wizard, to learn about Horcruxes.
While I love your videos and applaud you for coming up with this theory, I just don't seen how it's "easier" to eliminate Voldemort after letting him get horcruxes. It seems it would have been way WAY easier to remove Voldemort if he never had horcruxes. Still, I love your channel!
Dumbledore didn't have evidence to lock him up.
@@djb9267 there are more ways to "eliminate" than just imprisonment
also i imagine in a world of magic and prophecies, there is a way to check the probability of the future.
@@LycaonsMemories Forgive me if i am wrong, but Mcgonagall said that Deviation is one of the most unexplored Branches of magic. I don't remember the exact quote, I believe it was in Half blood prince.
@@djb9267 i think mcgonagall said it was worthless lol, and whatever its teacher said that. so yes i imagine that was said.
but that still doesnt change my comment
@@LycaonsMemories we have seen in trelawney's classes that there are ways to tell the future. But it's very open to speculation, it wouldn't be enough to just expell one of the best students of hogwarts.
I never thought about that... Albus pulling the strings from the beginning... Then again he saw Tom for what he was... A monster
he became a monster due to Dumbledore manipulating the puppet strings , who know he may have become a decent person if not for that .
@@melphina2720 he was already a monster in the orphanage, stealing and beating the other children. physically and mentally.
@@melphina2720he was born from a love potion was evil in the orphanage and cannot be good
@@melphina2720tom riddle showed every sign of a psychopath already before ever meeting Dumbledore.
Tom riddle already new everything about making a horcrux before he talked to professor slughorn because Dumbledore wasn't headmaster yet and didn't have the power to remove the books on horcruxes until after voldemort left the school. He only wanted professor slughorn to answer what would happen if someone split his soul more then once or more specifically split it 7 times
That. All Riddle wanted to know from Slughorn was whether or not creating multiple horcruxes was possible. Proving this point, it was only after this chat that Riddle created the second one.
I would like to see a video about when Dumbledore became interested in Tom Riddle's story? I think he may have found out about the Gaunt family when Riddle was a student. He could read the cases of Morfin, Marvol, and the house elf in the files of the Wizengamot. But where did he meet Bob Odgen and find those children who were with little Riddle in the cave? And how quickly did he think he needed to question Slughorn when he found out about the Horcruxes?
I don’t see Dumble getting bored since Grin went to Azkaban so as to create this situation for fun. He wanted everything for the greater good. Killing hundreds of magical folks doesn’t mix with his morals. His sister died and grew empathy for love and life. Muggle or magic. Plotting evil seems to be far fetched. Especially if it leads to his own death. It would be the most dramatic death taking as many as he could, without it being him.
Dumbeldore invited Riddle to school because it was his job. Boy was a wizard and it was their job to send a teacher to every muggle born to explain and invite. Dumbeldore hid books when he became headmaster. Slughorn was a knowledgeable capable wizard probably also knowledge in dark arts. After all, he was a slithering head.
Nothing makes sense in this video. Dumbledore never was a dark wizard. He was an over talented wizard who crossed paths with Grindelwald and fell in love with him at a time when he was quite bored of his life and felt like his talents were wasted. He got excited to meet someone as intelligent and talented as him. For sure, he was seduced by Grindelwald and the prospect of gaining more power. But he was drived by love more than he was drived by darkness. He never took the plunge. He never became a dark wizard. We were told that the tragedy surrounding the death of his sister led him to give up all that greater good madness but I think that he would have gave it up anyway. And as he once told Harry, everybody has a bit of darkness inside but at the end, your choices define who you are. And Dumbledore chose to protect people.
He didn't try to manipulate Riddle while he was at Hogwarts. It just doesn't make sense. He didn't teach Slughorn about Horcruxes or he wouldn't have needed Harry to collect his memory. He did knew something was off with Riddle but he couldn't have guessed that he would become Voldemort. Even if he did, leading Voldemort towards immortality would have been completely stupid and useless. Rowling never wrote that creating Horcruxes had a weakening effect.
Anyway, please if you're running out of content for your videos, just stop making them instead of spreading incorrect facts that could mislead people who never read the books.
It’s not a “theory” that Dumbledore manipulated Harry and Snape, He did do that.
Dumbledore did keep the idea that Harry would have to sacrifice his life from both Snape and Harry. Seems like it was necessary though. Also he kept that Harry might live if he martyred himself. Once again that was probably necessary, Harry had to believe he was sacrificing himself in order to survive potentially?
More likely that if Dumbledore knew Tom was Evil enough to want to create a Horcrux he would manipulate events so that Tom would try and die in the attempt like so many other dark wizards throughout history but underestimated him.
I think the thing about Dumbledore is that he never truly left the ideology that him and Grindelwald started, he just rerouted himself but still working "for the greater good"
Was there ever a prophecy about Tom becoming an evil dark wizard?
OMGG that is a TOTALL must-know
Do keep in mind that in order to create a horcruxes, one also has to murder someone. With that being said, Dumbledore in the end condemned 7 people to death.
idk if you noticed but I saw your old video of you explaining how Ms Weasley killed Bellatrix Lestrange, and I think I know what "spell" Ms Weasley used
in the new Hogwarts legacy game your character can weald an "ancient magic" and in one of the start boss fights you use that magic to do a "finisher" that looks just how Bellatrix Lestrange died.
Dumbledore was fiercely against horcruxes, as Slughorn said it was not a subject permitted to be talked about. And there were no books even in the Restricted Section of the library on them except one book which said it will not give instruction on them.
Slughorn himself couldn't have been totally naive of shady things when he knew the prices parts from magical creatures could fetch. He could easily have had his own personal education, tho I'd say probably from a book than IRL. He's older than a naive high schooler.
There were 2 books on horcruxes, and after Dumbledore died, Hermione summoned them easily from his tower. She was very surprised they existed and that she could retrieve them so easily. IIRC, she was horrified by them.
So, no, I don't think Dumbledore manipulated Voldemort. In fact, when manipulating Harry, much of it might easily have been damage control than proactive maneuvering.
Dumbledore kept "an annoyingly close watch" on Voldemort in effort to protect the students, Hogwarts, and the Wizarding World. He refused the DADA job to Voldemort after Prof Dippet refuse Voldemort.
Dumbledore said in their interview that it had been a long time since he could frighten Tom with a burning wardrobe: "But I wish I could, Tom. I wish I could."
Dumbledore was not a fool thinking he could force Tom even in the beginning to be a benign person. All he could do was try to protect the world from him. And Harry played the ultimate part of that plan.
This was pretty epic.
I like to lay in bed, with my eyes closed, whenever I listen to your theories. Sometimes I see the action of your theories unfold like the story of the deathly hallows. Today it was clearer than ever.
Thank you 👌🏽
Well... I have a few things to say. I'm going to start with this, something I've never uttered in person before. No matter what Dumbledore said to Snape, I think he knew all along that Harry wasn't going to die. He knew there was a horcrux inside Harry, and there wasn't anything written that said when someone broke open a horcrux that if it was something alive that it would die. We've had multiple stories of people who said they felt like they were in limbo before coming back; that's where I think Harry was, and since he was able to answer every question he asked Dumbledore while he was in there, I think it was his imagination that figured everything out before he awakened.
Second, I have multiple problems with this current theory. True, Dumbledore could have manipulated Riddle in some way, and possibly also Slughorn, but it would have taken a bunch of coincidences for any of those later events to come to fruition. He didn't seem to know about the diary until Harry gave it to him after killing the spirit of a young Voldemort. I have the feeling that it wasn't until after that situation is when Dumbledore decided to study up on how horcruxes were created, at which time Slughorn would have already been gone... and we have to add that the book on horcruxes never mentioned what would happen after one was cracked open, since the guy who created the first one never had an opportunity open his, which means Dumbledore was actually the first person to crack one open and that's when he learned what had to be done.
In general, not a bad theory; I just can't see it happening that way.
I don’t think you really can say Dumbledore was a former dark wizard. He has an ideology that could have lead him down a dark path, but I don’t think he practiced any dark magic or actually moved to rule by force
I mean his original plan was to marry wizard Hitler and rule of over Muggles
Love your videos please keep them coming
So, why he didn't manipulate Tom to a lesser evil way than the most evil way? Why he would create an almost immortal enemy than a weaker enemy when he could make him a lesser controlled enemy?
Could Tom Riddle have become an obscurial if he hadn't been taught how to control his magic?
There is a theory that says He is actually Just His mothers obscurial Born in flesh because of the Love Potion meaning He was Born Evil and parasitic unsaveable by anyone but His mother according to JK Rowling.
Yes.
Why it is kind of short sighted to claim Dumbledore “always planned to use Harry to solve Voldemort problem by killing Harry”, a thread with examples (therefore a bit long):
The depth of Dumbledore character and intelligence is too vast for normal people to comprehend him and his actions-motivations correctly, in both the book reality and for us readers too haha
It cannot be done upon jumping to a conclusion for what appears to be in this one individual episode or another, it needs to be understood in its totality, from the timeline that runs for decades and that would reveal new information as he investigated into the situations presenting themselves. He knew more than others about magic as well as human behaviour but he wasn’t omniscient. The book makes that clear however not obvious - it requires attention to notice how, even though his plans are carefully calculated to prevent as much damage as possible in the present moment while still ensuring the main goal (stopping voldermort) happens in the future in the least destructive way - he is constantly paying attention to what is happening so he can adjust his plans as people independent and unpredictable actions influence the present events. There are many: prophecies, personal choice for good and evil, betrayals from both sides, unveiling of unknown/little know but highly powerful magic etc.
He ALWAYS knew Voldemort would be back and had an idea of action plan on how to respond when that happened, but he didn’t know how or when. Hence, he never sat on the comforting idea that they were all fine and they could rest from the threat. Which was a burden that he basically carried alone because no one else wanted to accept that, therefore, prepare for it with him.
For me it is clear he never manipulated Harry to die. He noticed that what could stop Voldemort darkness was ancient magic activated by love in order to protect. As horcruxes were progressively revealed to him (and to us the readers), he eventually came to the conclusion that Harry was one and that was a problem apparently without solution because Voldemort could not be truly stopped unless all horcruxes were destroyed and for that Harry needed to be destroyed; plus there was the prophecy about the two that made clear “one cannot live while the other survives”, proving that Harry was NEVER safe to begin with, the target for death was upon him since birth and Voldemort (or his minions) would come to him sooner or late. Realising this, Dumbledore put all his efforts in protecting AND training Harry for what he believed would come (and it did) since the very start: from the muggle family raising - that was bad to him, however it shielded Harry from the weight of his heavy backstory as much as possible AND developed in him resilience, empathy and an able mindset for hardship, which he absolutely needed to improve his chances of survival for the hard times Dumbledore knew Harry would have to face. The books showed how Dumbledore was grieved by the understanding of how life was tragic for Harry, having lost so much as a baby and yet would face worse in his future, things no other child had to worry about and where there was no escape - the only hope was strategy to prepare him and not burden him beyond necessary, allowing him to enjoy normalcy where possible.
As it turned out, Dumbledore predictions were right: Voldemort was alive, trying to come back and leaving a trace of destruction in his attempts, that were closer and closer to Harry each time. When he did manage to fully return by finally getting his hands on Harry REGARDLESS of all Dumbledore best attempts (another proof he doesn’t know it all and wasn’t in control like a God, his calculations were genius but not infallible - which he knew it and worked under that awareness) Voldemort was OBSESSED with the idea of killing Harry and it had to be him to do it - just like Dumbledore expected. It was necessary not only for his survival but also to his ego/image because a great dark wizard that can be defeated by a child cannot be that great, right? So Harry being alive was not only a threat to his life but to this idealisation of his superiority, the very core of the reign of terror he intended to create.
ANYWAY, the whole scenario seemed quite hopeless for Harry in a realistic perspective- he was no match in terms of skills, knowledge, power, structure against Voldemort. Dumbledore tried to compensate that as much as possible but he couldn’t fight the fight that would put an end to Voldemort, no one else could, just Harry.
HOWEVER being the mastermind he is, Dumbledore realised that Harry never needed any of those things when he 1st defeated Voldemort. All he needed was ancient magic, which was still protecting him btw. Even better: Tom looked down upon this “power of love magic”, making it easier to use it against him - he didn’t understand it and wouldn’t be able to predict it if Dumbledore plans were based in it.
And that is exactly what Dumbledore did: from all that he observed and study, he came to the conclusion that if Harry willingly surrendered himself to Voldemort for the purpose of stopping him so people could be saved, it would tap to the power of this ancient magic that honoured sacrificial love - neutralising the power of Avada K. against Harry BUT NOT against the Horcrux in him, that would take the full blow and be destroyed. And just like before, this magic was not only effective for one isolated situation, but it was an everlasting type of power, which is why none of Vold next curses could affect Harry.
Unlike Dumbledore, Voldemort assumed he possessed the encompassing knowledge of all that was important and powerful, therefore he didn’t even mind to check if Harry truly died, so confident he was in himself about his planning being flawless. He didn’t study wand bonding. He didn’t study ancient magic and love powered spells, and kept falling into the same mistake repeatedly - as Dumbledore predicted he would.
Now that was all Dumbledore deduction, I can’t tell he knew for sure this would be exactly what would happen . But he believed in it enough to put his own life at risk if that was necessary to ensure the right (and the only) circumstances that could save Harry and destroy Voldemort were in place.
He didn’t do it alone, but he was the biggest planner, investigator and executor of it. I don’t think any other wizard would have the same dedication, ability and intelligence (mind and emotional) to do it. And he carried all that alone, he never shared it all to a single person and all the while he knew that there was a big chance of him being misunderstood (like Snape did and MANY other reader/movie watchers still do, even though they got the whole picture haha). Yet he made that decision because his priority wasn’t his own life or reputation but the greater good. He also bet it all that Harry shared the same philosophy, since it was necessary that Harry believed he was walking to his death when he made the decision to surrender because that was precisely self sacrifice nobility that would trigger the mysterious ancient magic that would save him and end Vold in a single (but final )move.
Once more, his analytical predictions skills were right and even from his grave Dumbledore still lived through his plans that accomplished what he intended and by the people they saved.
Yes, Dumbledore was an exceptional human and wizard, problem the best of his time and superior to Tom R.
But he wasn’t an all knowing and powerful God that knew the whole picture and its details all along. He worked with his own limitations, doing his best but still leaving room for failure and, ultimately, risks - for him and for those that decided to join him. He was fatally injured by those risks himself when he managed the ring horcrux in the wrong way, reason being: he didn’t know enough about this type of dark magic. But they all decided to take this life risk because they all agreed it would be an even higher risk to let Vold run lose. It wasn’t manipulation but shared sense of importance and urgency over a very real evil, where each member brought their best to the fight.
For this to make any sense, Dumbledore would have needed to know about Voldemort's horcruxes. But its clear that Dumbledore didn't know that they were horcruxes.
It's all very interesting. The theory also sounds plausible. But I question if Dumbledore was that much of a gambler, a risk taker. There seems to me to be too many turns of events that could have turned the tables against Dumbledore. For instance what if Draco Malfoy had succeeded in murdering Dumbledore? What if Riddle/Voldemort had decided to mark Neville Longbottom instead? What if Voldemort had decided not to murder James & Lily Potter, but to bide his time instead?
i like to think that dumbledores plan with tom was to create a new strong ally like he had with grindelwald. in order to pursue dumbledores former ideology of beeing supreme to muggle born . But tom as grindelwald before took it way to far so dumbledore had to screw that plan . So late on he needed harry to make up for his mistake of creating lord voldemort
was Dumbledore a manipulator yes, did he manipulate tom.. most likely. did he set tom on the way of horcruxes, i dont think so. when we find out that voldy is doing horcruxes, it is expressed that Dumbledore was also surprised. why would he act surprised if it was part of his plan from the start? it does nothing if harry knew dumbldeore knew or didnt.
You always post intriguing, thought provoking videos. Thank you!
I believe Dumbledore could have helped Tom, but he didn't care at all about this child.
Didn't attempt to emphasize with him, to understand him. Wrote him off as 'evil' from the first meeting. Believed the words of the Muggle caretaker without questions. Dumbledore set his wardrobe on fire to scare the young boy! Great first impression, eh? /s
Imho there's no need to theorize that Dumbledore purposefully planned to turn Tom into the next dark lord - in 1938 his dear old friend Gellert Grindelwald was still going strong, after all, or that he planted any books on Horcruxes. These books were already there in the Hogwarts library. Only for academic purposes, of course!
It's damming enough that Dumbledore didn't do anything at all to stop Tom's spiralling decent into darkness.
As the Transfigurations teacher and Deputy headmaster Dumbledore personally knew hundreds or possibly even thousands of magical people. He could have discussed it with Headmaster Dippet and Tom's Head of House, Professor Slughorn. Explain that Tom Riddle is an orphan stuck in a bad situation in the Muggle world.
The responsible adults could - imho - have found another home in Hogsmeade or somewhere else for Tom (and the handful of other Muggleborn or half-blood students in a similar dire situation like Tom, or those keen to escape from abusive family or guardians) to stay temporarily over the summer.
If Dumbledore can conjure hundreds of sleeping bags like in book 3 in an instant, he should be able to conjure basic furniture and bedding sets in some simple cottage, or transfer some stuff from Hogwarts, to make it fit to live in for two summer months for a small group of children and teens.
(Thousands of Muggles children were evacuated during WW2 from the south of England towards the north, because of the German attacks, after all!)
Instead they
(I don't blame only Dumbledore for this cruel negligence, this 'oversight', but also Slughorn, Dippet and the whole Ministry of Magic)
sent this already troubled child
- and presumably other students too -
back into an orphanage in Muggle London after first year, and continued to do this even after the outbreak of WW2.
At a time when the Blitz and later the V2 attacks were destroying plenty of buildings in London, Coventry and many other British cities and towns, killing or maiming tens of thousands of people... Ships crossing the North Sea or Atlantic Ocean were sunk, attacked with torpedoes by German U-Boots. Air planes defending Britain were shot down. Many soldiers were wounded or killed in battle daily.
Tom would have seen plenty of destruction, the devastating effects of the Muggles weapons, smelled the rotten stink of the river Thames, heard terrifying tales told by adults and children, heard the radio broadcasts and probably also read newspapers each time he returned to London.
But adult fully trained wizards apparently are able to shield, to ward their homes against such destructive forces, the Ministry of Magic, Diagon Alley, Hogwarts and Hogsmeade... otherwise more wizard folk would have been worried about and bothered by this Muggles war.
This is something that baffles me still. Why did JKR write it this way?! It's so outrageous, so illogical!
How can the teachers and students at Hogwarts and their families at home, scattered all over the British isles, NOT have heard at least rumours of the ongoing Muggles war?! Nazi Germany?
Battle of Britain? And later, about Pearl harbor? Nagasaki, Hiroshima?!
When at the same time Grindelwald was supposedly terrorising Germany and mainland Europe?
In any case, Tom was a very talented young wizard who fiercely hated, loathed Muggles - for a reason.
Please, take a moment to wonder why?
Plenty of fanfic have explored what might have happened to him in the eleven years before Dumbledore arrived, that shaped Tom's twisted character.
Consider nobody ever cared for this boy. He was an orphan, a nobody, a burden on the system, the unwanted son of an unknown destitute tramp woman, who died in childbirth. No father or other relatives ever showed up to claim Tom. He was worthless in the eyes of society.
But he himself felt different, special. Not the same as the others.
Tom had to constantly fight to survive in this environment. Soon, possibly even in his first year of life, some unexplained, weird stuff began to happen at the orphanage. The other kids and the caretakers were confused, scared, the kids ganged up on him, he defended himself, the staff was punishing Tom to get him under their control...
In return Tom's accidental magic is lashing out, again, a vicious cycle. Until he learns to use his weird supernatural powers with purpose to scare the Muggles, to strike back at them...
In the memory scene in the book HBP it's pretty clear that Tom feared at first that Dumbledore was a doctor, a person planning to take him away to Bedlam, an insane asylum, because the Muggles in charge of the orphanage - and probably some clerical people who knew of Tom too - or had probably already attempted an exorcism!? - thought of him as a freak, someone abnormal, a disturbed, possessed, devil's child.
We are told that Tom was scared of death.
No wonder.
During summer holidays Tom, like any other Muggleborn or half-blood child living with Muggles wasn't allowed to use any magic.
No way to defend himself from any Muggle attacks, to shield from bomb or rocket blasts.
At the orphanage young Tom surely witnessed several kids dieing from malnutrition and common diseases like Measles or tuberculosis year after year. Not long ago, the Great War, WW1, plus the Spanish Flu had killed many millions of people. He would have heard about this too as a child.
Is it a wonder that he researched his heritage - who an I? who were my parents? is there an opportunity to get power to escape this life for me?
and Dark magic methods of immortality as soon as he could?
One question I’ve always had…if Voldemort intended to make 7 horcruxes, why did he stop at 6? He did make 7, but one of them unknowingly.
Isn't it 8 with Harry?
@@Dilmahkana book, ring, locket, diadem, cup, Nagini. I can’t think of any more. I could be wrong though.
Dumbledore turned to the Dursley's once more: "As you will no doubt be aware, Harry comes of age in a year's time. It is therefore essential that you will do everything in your power to prevent him from succumbing to alcohol"
Harry: "Sir, what are you-"
"To prevent him from becoming an alcoholic at all cost", Dumbledore repeated.
"But sir-"
But Dumbledore held his hand up in polite refusal to discuss the matter further.
WOW! I love that theory or at least parts of it. No doubt Albus Dumbledore was a master manipulator but I don't think he intended to make Tom evil on purpose. Yes I know Tom was already evil but I think that in the beginning Dumbledore hoped to give the boy a chance for better life. Only when he saw in what direction Tom is marching he manipulated and annoyed him a lot. And if your theory is true that means he also manipulated Slughorn in the process. But I think Slughorn may had dark wizards in his family and therefore knew about dark magic and decided to be different.
Thanks Eran! Bit of a stretch but it was fun to think about
@@HarryPotterTheory You are a brilliant man. And I am surprised you never run out of ideas.
Dumbledore probably did not want to kill anyone. Knew too much of what it would do to his own soul. So this theory makes sense. It's also possible that there was some hope that the child would change for the better in the new school environment. But if not, then the plan was always to (mis)guide him to his fate.
Very interesting theory, almost being told like it is fact. Very well made.
I know killing a child is distasteful, but Voldemort filled literal graveyards with the people he killed. From a cursory look on the internet, he killed at _LEAST_ 170 people, and that's just confirmed kills. I absolutely think Dumbledore should have executed Tom Riddle the moment it became apparent that was the kind of path he was on. Sure, he wouldn't have known right in the orphanage, but given Voldemort's complete lack of empathy, it was likely fairly clear quite early on that he was going to be a horrible dark wizard.
You cant kill someone strictly on what they might do.
@@mlpfanboy1701 No, but once his first murder came to light, Dumbledore should have hunted him down and executed him.
To be fair, though, that's a whole other discussion. If you could prevent a tragedy, should you? That's hard to answer, because what if the prevention of one tragedy allows for an even greater tragedy to happen? So yeah, it's possible that without a Lord Voldemort, an even more evil witch or wizard would have risen.
6:32 and 7:40 Hi what is the music you have used here and where I can find it?
Please answer! I would appreciate
Quite the interesting theory. But a few things do seem out of place! I get that Dumbledore set it all for an undoing in the long run, but why let so much destruction happen? Knowing that people would be killed. To make the horcruxes, and why he would let that happen? I like the idea of him trying to give him a better chance in life by offering him a place in hogwarts, but the flip side of only giving him a place for him to be killed later on genius, but cruel! He could have just abliviated him at the orphanage, and given him something that would have permanently kept him under an imperious curse. However I do love what you came out with, and not painting Dumbledore as a villain, but someone who is willing to wipe out evil no matter the cost then I do see why he'd have let such devastating things happen, and I see how that would have played on his mind. It does also kind of play into the time travelling Dumbledore theory as well where Dumbledore might have gone to the future, and seen how things played out, and then gone back to put measures in place to bring forth Voldemorts down fall. I love what you have done, and do please for your next video give a theory on how Dumbledore knew about the eventual return of Lord Voldemort fitting into this current theory. I'd love to hear what you have to say! ❤
Nah Dumbledore is not this cleaver, neither this cruel. He might have had his suspicions about Tom from the start. But hope he would be proven wrong by Tom. Like of his friend Grindelwald. But it is interesting he would put so much stock in the prophecy about Harry. That might be a fault in D character, It make him free of responsibility in his inaction and action he would do with Harry and distance himself from things as it was with Grindelwald and death of his sister.
But if Dumbledore planted the idea of Horcruxes why would he need to get Slughorn’s correct memory :|
the only flaw i see in this…why did slughorn not blame dumbledore when harry wanted the memory in half blood prince if dumbledore told him everything about horcruxes
Love it🙏
Dumbledore the ultimate puppetmaster of the whole series.
When I first encountered Dumbledore, I thought he was simply a lovely, wise, elderly wizard. That's the pure genius of Joanne Rowling's writing and how layered it is. We obviously find out later that Dumbledore isn't afraid of Voldemort for the following reasons :
1.He had Tom Riddle's / Voldemort's number the day he met him in the orphanage
2. Dumbledore could have continued down his path of dark magic with his friend/lover Grindlewald but he ultimately chose not. Thus, the famous quote that Dumbledore told Harry (just paraphrase) : it's our choices not our capabilities that's takes us to our destiny (words to that effect, obviously not the exact quote).
3.If we go with this theory that Dumbledore did point Tom Riddle into the direction of Horcruxes, Dumbledore knew exactly what he done, where as, had Dumbledore not played a hand in this, Dumbledore wouldn't have had any control over what Voldemort was doing.
Has there been a previous video on Professor Slughorn on this channel? I would love to know more about him please. 🙏
I believe it could work. If somehow Dumbledore had knowledge of the future events like the seer prophecy for harry.
dumbledore was an Alchemist at heart. He didn't do things for "good" as we first understood as pre-teens and teens. He did EVERYTHING from little TR to little HP simply to watch, document, analyse and resolve things as they unfold. A great example of this is the aftermath of harry's name appearing on the goblet of fire.
"Ha! Just wait till Tom gets to the part where he kills Lily and James. He'll realize his error all to late, all according to keikaku."
Why do people have such a need to discredit Voldemort and make Dumbledore as a villain?
Well, regardless of however much point there is in theorizing about the content of a fantasy novel, I cannot help but consider the idea of a wise man being content with having so many lives destroyed just to put an end to a single, potential adversary, albeit the embodiment of evil, to be far fetched. To say the least.
Very interesting! Well done!
Did Dumbledore actually place a book about horcruxes for Tom to find? That means Dumbledore was fine with Tom killing others before he is defeated
I never saw anywhere that he did that. On the contrary, he hid the book in his office. It was not in the restricted section. You are right. He would not have planted a book so Tom Ridle could become so evil and kill lots of people so that more than one of him had to be killed. I don’t get it.
Lets accept for a moment that this theory has some truth then it's "I'm going to take this untrained wizard who if stays in a muggle world will be able to do some nasty things but will stay untrained and his magical abilities will be dull compared to an educated wizard , then educate him perfectly well giving him all access to the most powerful normal and dark magic, refine his abilities , socialise him with fellow wizards which can manipulate , make him prefect so he can have even more influence to others ,let him roam the school open the chamber of secrets set up Hagrid , then roam the magical world set up his network of nazi-wizards let him gain immense power terrorise torture and murder for years, have magical items hidden who knows where that keeps him in this world which he murdered real people to create just because one day I might have managed to manipulate another underage wizard to destroy his horcruxes if he finds them and finds how too do so and then after all those horrible years and stuff the soul of the dark wizard will be fractured and weak." ain't that completely stupid an uneducated Tom might have become a dangerous thug maybe even a serial killer but the educated one was a dark lord a dictator who terrorised a whole country and this because of those things he learned and the socialising he did in magical school. A good "manipulation" tactic for avoiding dark lords would be better guarding the restricted session in school library , not allowing prejudiced ideas as "pureblood" ideas are to be spread at school and having a curiculum to oppose them and also keeping an eye on students antisocial behavior and act to correct it p.e. like not let them bully or curse one another for fan or any reason those would be a good start.
What I would consider possible is that Dumbledore saw Tom as a troubled youth but not evil , and wanted to reform Tom , make him good and manipulate Tom to use him against Grindelwald whom he didn't want to duel himself , maybe even teach him about horcruxes in the fear that Grindelwald had already made one himself so that Tom would manage to destroy it but when he saw that Tom became more evil the more magic he learned, and also was so intrigued by horcruxes in the bad way then Dumbledore saw how evil Tom was and abandoned the plan and faced Grindelwald himself but as about giving Tom the tools to become a new dictator the harm had already been done and there wasn't a way to undo that, like a failed manipulation effort that gone bad (and proves why manipulation is a bad strategy)
Creating a horcrux invovled murder, so I don't think Dumbledore would purposely place a path for Tom Riddle that required him to murder others. Plus, if he made Slughorn give the info to Tom Riddle, he would have conversed with Slughorn about Sluggy's conversation with Tom Riddle way back when Tom was still in school.
This theory makes a lot of sense. Specially knowing how Dumbledore manipulated Harry as well. Maybe Voldemort was a failed case that went out of his control and he carried on with Harry to achieve glory for himself, but ultimately his remorse for Ariana's death made him commit a deadly mistake and he didn't have any other choice than to change plans and let Harry be victorious.
If only Dumbledor had been a posiive role model in Tom's life then Tom may not have become so evil. Tom could have just become a wizard like Sirus Black. I know. Let's leave the restricted section unguarded and allow the most powerful wizard of that time to be tempted and coruppted. This is bad for Dumbledor.
If even half of the rumored theories are remotely true about Dumbledore and harry it may have been a good thing he got the killing curse from Snape it's really disturbing that Dumbledore had no quims about sacrificing numerous members of the order and civilians to achieve his designs sacrificing the potter's and the longbottoms for his gains who is to say that he didn't just take the cloak from James potter's corpse then returned to school and ordered hagrid to get baby harry so his machinations to start I like to wonder if the reason for the order to start the first time was to purposely handicap the nation for willing stooges and toadies cause he is a great man who can deny his wisdom he may have had thoughts to take out riddle and harry members of the da and install whoever was left for his ultimate regime possibly pardon the death esters that lived and put them somewhere he could keep and eye on them and go about on his mercy way to do whatever he wanted here's a question even if he was truly in love with gellert Grindelwald why did he take so long to get either around the blood pact or destroy it till Grindelwald was almost at full power on the mainland to take action that is curious indeed
Love it! Not sure dumbly knew it was horcruxes though. Not sure WHY there WOULD be a book on them at all but it makes more sense that it was planted than it was JUST THERE. but manipulation of harry to manipulate slughorn JUST to find out they were infact horcruxes after he destroyed one seems far fetched. And him destroying one not knowing what it was leading to his death kinda disproves he planted the book. But, i do buy he setup Tom, not to make him easier to kill but bc Dumbledore wanted fame before his death. he recruited Tom before he knew his lover was gonna be his biggest opponent so my guess was he was constantly recruiting potential opponents so that he could make a name for himself before his own death, which he did. So i think his entire tenure at Hogwarts, including harry, was all to recruit potential opponents for him to famously duel with his secret Elder wand
He could have also walked inside the orphanage and bombard Tom Riddle with Avada Kedavra a bit. Just a few dozen times to make sure he is dead.
Problem solved.
It is a fair point about inviting Riddle to Hogwarts to keep an eye on him. Grindelwald was still about in those days, away from Hogwarts he might have been found by Grindelwald and trained by him.
Ahh yes, Albus Percival Wolfrick Brian Dumbledore. The Benevolent Machiavellian..
I watched the video three times. As a scholar, I am used to dissection arguments. The first time I thought, 'pff, this is rubbish.' The second time I thought, 'this is pure genius; things must have happened thusly.' The third time I was able to see that this is an excellent, very refined, but ultimately unconvincing, intellectual exercise. Shout out to you, my friend!!!
I give you my take on it: every theory, every explanation (especially in literary studies and criticism) has to be grounded on one principle, economy. This is clear in Umberto Eco 'Lector in Fabula" (but also 'Six Walks in the Fictional Woods'). This is where your theory fails, in my modest opinion. Why not go for something more manageable, say obliviate him in the orphanage? Why do not frame him after the opening of the Chamber of Secrets (veritaserum or other methods) to prevent a massive murder from taking over the Wizarding World? If his ultimate goal was stopping him, then your theory falls short in explaining why he did take the longest, most perilous, and uncertain way to do so.
I offer a slightly different take on Dumbledore's intentions that fits with and would make perfect sense of your theory: Dumbledore did not want to stop Riddle. He wanted to amuse himself with the Wizarding World and see how it reacted with a chaotic element like Riddle in it. The world was Dumbledore's playground, and that's why he behaved as you hypothesize in your video: he wanted to see how far Dark Magic could go in such a talented example as Riddle. Then, when Riddle overlooked Lily's Ancient Magic and defeated himself, Dumbledore was disappointed and decided that the experiment was over. He started playing with another puppet (Harry) to destroy his former amusement (Riddle). What do you think? In any case, one of your best videos, from an affectionate viewer (and recently member) of your channel!
I had the same thought whilst watching the video that dumbledore wanted to play with these ppl bt then cld he do that he wasn’t a person that would do that,as been described,bt i see that ur point of ‘amusing himself’ cld b valid as we know the story through Harry’s perspective and we don’t know much abt dumbledore either
Also this seems far fetched,dumbledore isn’t the only source of knowledge upon horcruxes for slughorn to learn about them
"Raised like a pig for slaughter" is always taken out of context. Those were Snape's words, not Dumbledore's and Dumbledore didn't correct Snape because Harry needed to believe he was going to die. The look of triumph Dumbledore gets at the end of book 4 when he finds out Voldemort used Harry's blood to complete the spell only makes sense if Dumbledore wanted a way for Harry, the "pig", to survive the slaughter.
I really can't see Dumbledore doing anything as evil and cruel as this.
Slughorn's "memory" of telling Riddle about horcruces was manipulated. It was Dumbledore who told Riddle and then put the fake memory in Slughorn's mind
Tom riddle was a troubled child from the beginning, and Dumbledore knew that. That's why Dumbledore kept an eye on Riddle. As Riddle learned about his past and heritage, he basically grew angrier and angrier. His father, being a muggle and wanting nothing to do with Tom, probably added to his Hatred of muggles.
Dumbledore was certainly manipulative, there is no questioning that. To have secretly guided Tom Riddle to making Horcruxes though? That's a very interesting idea.
To believe that, you would have to accept the idea that Dumbledore knew Riddle was both capable of and willing to comit murder and that Dumbledore was willing to accept those murders.
For the greater good is a phrase that haunts Dumbledore and this theory sounds like a perfect example of that.
Dumbledore accepts that Riddle will not only murder people to achieve his goals, but he will do so in ways that he is able to get away with.
That's a pretty big leap of faith by Dumbledore that allowing Riddle to get away with murder would make him easier to defeat in the longrun.
Its theorized that the horcrux books were already in the restricted section when armondo dipit was the headmaster. Dumbledore took it out when he took office
To be fair, Tom Riddle didn't say: "I like hurting other children" he said: "I can make bad things happen to those who were mean to me."
My biggest issue with this theory is that he wouldn't have done nothing once Myrtle died. Plus if he was really keeping that close an eye on him, even if he didn't notice Myrtle was his victim, he would have noticed when all of his family dies.
This means either we give Dumbledore too much credit or he let's lots of people die for just the right moment to strike. I don't think he would have hesitated to subdue Tom if he had actual evidence and really knew.
I think there’s a couple of problems, first your dates are off, Tom didn’t open the chamber until his fifth year, but even aside from that, Wasn’t headmaster until well after Tom graduated, in the books make clear that Dumbledore was not in a position to remove the four books from the library until he was headmaster, further if Dumbledore guided Slughorn into the Horrix conversation already know Dumbledore you Slughorn help Tom in that conversation in which case he would have no reason to make the false memory where he didn’t help
This would be actually pretty cool they should make a game where you play as Dumbledore as a kid throughout his life you see what actually happened
A Very Good Video 👌🏻👍🏻
I think your theory is correct. In 'the half blood Prince' Dumbledore tasks Harry to find out Slughorns secret. When they do, Dumbledore seems shocked to learn Voldemort made horcruxes. But in 'Deathly Hallows' we see in Snapes memory that Dumbledore knew all along that Harry was a horcrux. Now it's possible that he thought that it was basically an accident and Voldemort didn't even know about horcruxes. But in 'chamber of secrets' he says Tom Riddles diary held apart of him, (a horcrux) and he knew enough to destroy the ring, and look for the locket.
If Dumbledore did indeed know about the horcruxes and only feigned ignorance then he had Harry "discover" the secret and set him on the mission to find and destroy the rest so when Harry realizes that he is a horcrux he'll be more able to accept that he has to die. It would also mean that he knew from the beginning that Voldemort was using horcruxes but he sent Harry to find out /how many/ he had created and Slughorn confirms this with his memory in the pensive when Tom asks about how many times the soul could be split and he gives the "theoretical" number seven to Slughorn, who is rightfully horrified at the thought.
Yeah, but there is one thing that pokes a hole into this theory.
"Did I know that I had just met the most dangerous dark wizard in the world? No." Dumbledore admits that he had no idea of how dangerous Voldemort was going to be. Besides, how does leading him to create horcruxes make him easier to defeat? It actually just makes the process more difficult because before the final battle, all the horcruxes need to be destroyed. Unless you wanna go as far as to say that Dumbledore predicted the birth of the Chosen One and the entire plot of the books was his plan from the day he met Riddle, which would be very far-fetched, not to say impossible.
idk if you've done a video on this or anything but do you think that if either Tom's father actually loved his mother or if tom stayed with his mom or other family rather than at the orphanage, that tom would have turned out differently? or maybe he'd just be a slightly smaller scale of what he turned out to be?
It's a good theory. I had a thought that Dumbledore set up the meeting of Harry and Ron on the Platform.
Sorry, case closed, the bird thing in fantastic beasts literally confirmed that Dumbledore was pure of heart. Try again.
There are many mistakes here! Albus Dumbledore is not a manipulative man, he is a good wizard and very wise by nature and had a wise mind. in the head. He was the headmaster of the school of witchcraft and wizardry in the castle "Hogwarts".
He had the Vulcan (bird) Phoenix.
And the hat that chooses houses.
And the Sword of Gryffindor.
His best friend is Professor of Dark Arts (the half-blood prince) Severus Snape (Slytherin). And all the teachers liked Albus very much.
The only one who didn't like him is: Tom Riddle Junior (Marvolo) a family member of the Gaunt family (full blood witches). Like, for example, his birth mother (biologically) Menrope.
His Father a Muggle blood born.
Tom Junior who changes his name to Prince Voldemort (evil wizard) Also known as the Dark Lord.
With the help of a drop of blood from Harry Potter, Tom Riddle Senior bone(scaly bones). Under the direction of his help assistant (loyal) Peter Pettigrew also known as worm tail (Vormtail).
(Gryffindor). Tom Jr. (Riddle) is the true Manipulator by nature.
Because he has no empathy and care for others (those he naturally hates and dislikes). Especially Muggles. He also knew Parseltongue (snake language). Hear them and understand them. (Which are the abilities in the Gaunt family). The only thing Albus Dumbledore did was visit him as a young boy at the Orphanage he was born in (birth home to Tom Jr. (Riddle)). And welcomed him as a student at Hogwarts. Everything else that happened, Tom Jr. (Riddle) did all by himself out of free will. Because he wanted to eliminate everyone he hated and didn't like. By Nature.
U know how many people Dumbledore would have purposely let die for this to be true he would be worse than Voldemort if that's the case
I like the theory, but the fact that in book 6, Dumbledore didnt know about the Horcruxes.
Final battle Dumbledore, Voldemort, Snape vs. Harry, Ron, Hermione
This theory would indicate that Dumbledore was always a dark wizard; manipulating Riddle to learn about horcruxes guarantees at least one murder by him, and the possibility of several. Everything about Dumbledore indicates a person who has made mistakes in the past and has firmly rejected the philosophy that caused those errors. I agree that Dumbledore was keeping an eye on Riddle, but I don't believe he would deliberately make him a worse person.
I think some people in the comments may have the wrong idea. From a few i read i get the impression that they think op is implying that Big D pulled the strings that made tom riddle into voldy. However i think what op is getting at is Big D knew tom would become evil and get immortality regardless of what he did, so he put the book there so that when the time came he would know what kind of immortality voldy had. Magic is very hard to defend against if you have absolutly 0 clue about how and what that magic is. He purposfully gave him this book(put in library) so he COULD be defeated.
Well, firstly, that makes sense. Slughorn told Tom that Dumbledore was fiercely against knowledge of horcuxes not be even discussed at Hogwarts. How would Horace know that? He would know it if he had had a conversation with Dumbledore previously.
Secondly, Merlin's saggy boxers! Have you ever heard of a long term "plan" where more things could go wrong? What if Voldemort',s horcuxes couldn't be found and destroyed? Like if he made an empty Coke can a horcrux and then dropped it into the middle of the Atlantic ocean? If Dumbledore was playing a long game of manipulation with either TR or HP he was willing to accept an almost astronomical number of things that could and probably would go wrong. Not a good plan at all.
This would fit well with the theory the Dumbledore is Death from the Three Brothers. Create a wizard that brings about a LOT of death during his rise to power and subsequent downfall....
Why would dumbledore need slighorns memory so bad if he already knew about the horcruxes
The timeline in which Voldemort makes his horcrux makes no sense to me. Because whenever he kills Myrtle he makes a horcrux from the diary. When he got the ring he used morfin to kill the father and grandparents. Voldemort had the ring when he was talking to slughorn about making horcruxes. So I think he had already made two and then wanted to know if he could make more if it was safe or if he should stop there
It makes no sense to lead Voldemort through all the Horcruxes thing and then let someone else destroy all of them.
Wow, this is really dark. I know Dumbledore was manipulative and shady but this is next level.
Your voice is relaxing
Its possible that Dumbledore being the visionary that he was, saw that the Wizarding World needed some drastic changes. After all the MOM was corrupt and ineffectual, most wizards were racist towards muggle-borns and non human magicians. And then we have to consider that Hogwarts itself was pretty backwards and stuck in tradition. Things needed to change. And while Dumbledore might have been able to make sweeping reforms as minister, I think even he realized it would take more than him stepping up into a position of authority to bring lasting changes to Britain's wizarding society. Something drastic had to be done, that was to create a great enemy the Wizarding World can unite behind and defeat.