I divorced him because that stuff sends me into a rage in order to protect my kids but then I became the bad and mean person who can’t just be nice to him. Its totally ridiculous.
@@patriciaviles4033 exactly and his every failure in life including being a terrible parent is my fault. At this point I have resigned because defending myself was robbing me of my peace.
@@vanessadrew-branch5321 Just keep reminding yourself, “grey rock, grey rock, grey rock.” Ignore any insults, threats, or lies, as if he never said them. Only respond to relevant questions or information. Be like a pane of glass on which they keep trying to find a handhold. They’ll make an awful racket, but they won’t be able to hook their claws in you when there is no purchase to be had. It’s so hard though!
@@vanessadrew-branch5321 same here... I was always the one who is yelling... After quite a while I've realized that I was channeling his anger. He was always unsatisfied and unpleased with something and wasn't able to express that and then I - as a hypersensitive person with poor boundaries - picked up everything he felt and was angry at something that didn't bother me at all. And then he was like: "See, I told you. You're always pissed of." 🤬🤦🏼♀️
As I was young and very naive, exactly the constant complaining of the narcissits about his unfair life attracted me. The helper in me wanted to fix all the unhapiness. I thought a lot of unconditional love I was ready to give to him would fix the bad things and we would live happily ever after. After a few years I was the one crying for help. But he was cold and indifferent. I was depressed a few years, I past depression, I even gave a new chance to the narcissist: a new beginnning, me trying again to do everything perfectly. Because first time maybe I was the one who did a mistake and that's why the narcissist was still unhappy. I worked myself to exhaustion to please him: job, clean house, homecooked meals, taking care of the children alone, to give time and space to the narcissist to relax, take care of his hobbies and be happy. Nothing helped. He is still grumpy, unthankful, hateful, full of resentment and mean. I will concentrate my energy now to the children. They really need my help to deal with all kind of ugly situations their father puts them into. Helping the narcissist is pointless. He will never be happy anyway. Nothing is ever enough.
I have been dealing with this for 23 years. It never gets better. You just get better at expecting nothing. My list of responsibilities grew exponentially. I finally am burnt all the way out. I do not even recognize myself. The damage to my children was so horrific and so severe...it was not worth it. I stayed out of fear of them being alone with him without me. Constant ups and downs. But whenever he feels bad about himself he lashes out. Never ever satisfied. Always the victim. Screaming " You don't care about me!" Calling us every name in the book. Pushing away his family and my family and being in competition with his own kids to the point of sabotaging the family. It is so tragic. And I am burnt out from trying to " prove" I love him. I am depleted, trying to heal from all of these ailments, and he doesn't care.
Oh my gosh. The seething resentment for just asking for help. This is my ex husband exactly. He also passively aggressively did everything that I asked him to do wrong on purpose.
That was my raging narcissist father. He absolutely hated having to do ANYTHING around the house that men usually take care of. He didn't want to do anything period. So if he had to he not only made it hell for us, screaming, raging, throwing and breaking things, but he also began purposely doing all of those things wrong. My brother and I starting at a very young age learned to do the things he was supposed to do and did them just to keep from having to deal him in that state.
My mom was just as abused as us kids if not more. But as for her as a parent, she was a wonderful mom. Very loving and caring. We (my brother and I) were also trying to protect her from his wrath in our attempts to try to make sure the creap didn't have to do anything. But you know how it is with extreme narcissists, they always find excuses to blow up about anything and everything.
You just recounted the story of my married life. Your description of living with oppression "like a wet, stinky blanket" is so accurate. Thank God I survived and I'm well on my way thriving. Not looking back.
I'm living with an older vulnerable narcissist and it gets harder every day. He has no relationship with his daughter, nor her children. He won't talk about anything and gets defensive if it's brought up. He is a sullen brooder, and plays the victim to the hilt. Thanks to you, and others Dr. Ramani, I know what I'm dealing with and I don't take it personal. I'm looking for a way out because my patience has run out and I want my sanity back.
Consider him to be a plant. Every now and then he needs some food and water. The rest of the time you can have your healthy life on your own. It's so much easier said then done, but it might be worth considering when you want or have to to stay together.
Good for you. Don't waste your health and sanity. Get out. ASAP. Whatever it takes. No matter how much you try to ignore a person like that it does gradually harm you regardless. It wears down your sympathetic nervous system. Your subconscious starts behaving as if you are always unsafe, and that is too much for anyone's body mind or soul to deal with for very long. Just leave. Sooner the better.
@@Picca65 you have good intentions, but that's only the last resort solution. Getting away from them & out from under their poisonous cloud is absolutely critically necessary.
Oh god this is so true! Me and 4 children carefully tip toeing around this man, avoiding his rages, manipulations and self pity. It’s draining and so lonely to have to manage an infantile person like this. He’s not a partner, but an extra child. It really wasn’t apparent when I first met him, although I knew there was something wrong, but misunderstood it all, being so young and naive at the time. Only when children came into the picture, did it start to really come out, and it continues to get worse, year by year. It breaks my heart to see how adept my kids are managing these personalities, at their ages. Dr Ramini really knows her stuff, people, because I am living this nightmare.
@@meetbirdie thank you so much for your kindness. You really do get it. I think ordinary people just can’t, unless they have been through it, a world of distortion. Yes, love and pity for him is the reason I stay, for the brief moments when the sun comes out...
This video and your comment were the beginning of the end of my marriage. I could no longer ignore my partner's behaviors. Dr. Ramani opened my eyes and gave me language to describe my life. The awakening has taken me through the depths of despair and I am walking tall out the other side. If you're reading this and think you; 're stuck and can never escape -- yes, you can and you're worth it. The hard is the way.
This really hits home for me. It’s always about him and the rage is crazy! My son even tells me that daddy has anger issues, but he already knows he can’t tell his dad this.
This is exactly, my number one struggle in life right now. I have to try to protect and nurture my children while divorcing and co-parenting with a vulnerable & covert Narcissist.
So much of this resonates. So much whining about not being included with the child because "you're trying to keep my from having a relationship with my own kids"- then not showing up for the school's halloween parade, despite everything from the costume to locating the schedule being handled. Complaining that the local rec softball, which the child has begged to participate in, is "going to have parents who act like jerks" because he feels intimidated. Complaining that BoyScouts should be between him and the child but being "super busy at work and being attacked by my clients" when it comes to actually attending the meetings. It feels like some sort of life-long prison sentence having to coparent with a vulnerable narcissist.
Sounds so familiar!! He wanted me to get the kids into sports, swim lessons, dance etc. I'd be the 1 running them around like crazy & he'd be bitching that dinner was not on the table at 5:30 sharp, just like his dad. He yelled at our son when he was in grade school, playing basketball, in the middle of a game. Guess who never played basketball again?! Told the daughter in 4th grade she couldn't join basketball because she lost her glasses at school. He told me once about how his father wouldn't let him try out for the basketball team in hs for whatever reason. Just a few small examples of an 18+ year sh*t show. Once when our daughter was a teen, he hid her car at the neighbor's house & when I put my foot down, he took all the keys & hid them. She didn't do anything that bad, I think she yelled at him. I was always in the middle, feeling they needed discipline but not revenge. I wish you well & hope you are done with all that!
Mine is still mad I didn’t make our thirteen year old call him on my nex’s birthday, even though I arranged for an extra visit the day before the birthday… During which I BROKE MY LEG. I didn’t “make” our son call his dad that day BECAUSE I WAS UNCONSCIOUS HAVING A TITANIUM ROD INSERTED IN MY LEG. I’m such a b***h!
Mom is the VNarc here...and Dad was, unfortunately very unavailable. I barely recall him. He went off to work, or hunting or fishing...and mowed the lawn. He wasn't available emotionally at all to me, and not sure if he was to my sisters, except the one he was closer to as an adult. It was like an emotional vacuum where I could not share any of my feelings with anyone. Mom wouldn't allow it and Dad just wasn't there, even when he was at home. I'm doing what I can to heal now. I appreciate these videos. They remind me I am not alone. They remind me it is an actual thing that happened, and it's not at all crazy that I have CPTSD...it's just the fallout, and not my fault. For a long time I have believed it was ME, and they were all normal. It's taken a long time to see that isn't true.
It was same with me, my mother ist vulnerable narcissist and my father is an alcoholic. All I have been doing for year was trying to make my mom happy and I have never succeeded. Since I was 11 the roles have switched so I was mother to her. And I was always blamed for every little inconvenience. On the other side my father didn’t care for my brother and me. I have been struggling for years with feeling of shame and guilt. I hate that I have lost myself into serving my mother and others. I became people pleaser because I believed that thats the only way to keep peace in relationships.
My 2 cents: If you have to co-parent with an abuser, please teach your children that the abuser's behavior is not normal. Support and love the heck out of your children. You can also demonstrate to your kids on how to deal with bullies. And as Dr. Ramani said, please seek help for yourself as well. ❤️
@@poofurgone78 Yes!!! Coming from being raised with 2 parents like this, i wish i would have had atleast one parent or somebody growing up that could have been my north star. It may have made a difference in my life instead of blaming myself. But anyways, I’m grateful that i did get to eventually see things clearly when i moved out and work on changing my life around.
I am in tears because this has been my life. My heart is breaking for my adult children. How could I have let them suffer through this? If only someone had told me these things 3 years ago
@@ramonatolles2316 I went to a lot of therapists & Alanon too. They never picked up on it, idk why not. Was I ever shocked when I found out! I had no idea there were people just like him & that there was a name for what I had been going through for so long. Aside from his drinking, I really thought there was something so wrong with me, that our life was so chaotic!
@@sahdogwrangler5594 Sadly narcissists are pros at lying to them and hiding their true nature. Couples therapy unfortunately almost never works (for narcs specifically, I mean - they use it to further manipulate).
My ex husband's "If only" moment, the one where he excuses himself from being a parent to our daughter would have to be, "I never have and never will have any say in anything. It's always what you want." So the "If only" would be, I would have a better relationship with my daughter if only I had more say in raising her. This is his passive aggressive stab at me because I have confronted him when he was being unreasonable and too harsh with our daughter. This was the biggest weapon in his gaslighting arsenal. It really had me stuck for a long time. Asking myself if I was really being so overbearing in the relationship and doing damage to his and our daughter's relationship. Over the years I came to realize that he actually dumped all of the responsibility of everything into my shoulders. He forced me into the role of being his mother as well. So, yes, I was in charge, completely. Therefore ANYTHING that went wrong, any conflict in the home, anything and everything was somehow my fault. He absolved himself of all adult responsibility. There was so much conflict between him and our daughter that she was so relieved when he left. I keep checking in with her to see if she is OK. It seems like she's never been happier..🤷♀️
I don't know you, but if your daughter says she's fine....she probably is. I've been waiting for years for my mom to finally divorce my dad. When she finally did, years after I was ready, I was thrilled. She was so confused, but having that piece of shit out of my life was the best thing that ever happened to me. I was 15 when we left, now I'm 22. Best decision I ever made was blocking him entirely out of my life.
I swear they are one of the same species! I get blamed for every single thing... You didn't teach the boys to do chores, you didn't set boundaries, they turned out this way because you were too lenient etc. My response;-- sounds like you didn't even exist! where the hell were you over the last 22 years! I swear I saw you hanging around here! Was that not you?? He was lost for words..
Yes!!! I noticed this when we moved into a new home (I thought a new house would be a new life; bigger house, bigger problems) and he kept saying, “it’s your house, do what you want.” Translation: your house, your responsibility, just make sure I have a man cave so I can play Xbox without children bothering me.
Yup. You protect your child from obviously dangerous negligence or abusive rage, and now you are "undermining" them, or "won't LET them help", or "I have no say"..... there is no logic here.
My vulnerable narc is a bit different. While the children are telling their story he will just take over the conversation by talking about himself, not acknowledging them. It doesn’t matter what the conversation is about he always has a story to tell about his life and how great he is. Recently my daughter asked us to send her some funny baby pictures OF HER for a school project. The pictures he sent HAD HIM in the them! He always inserts himself into every nook and cranny🤮🤒
Is he vulnerable or grandiose ….? If he’s vulnerable, then he is the same as this video describes in that Dr Ramani explains that the “drama🤣” is all about the narc and everyone else gets excluded and suffocated out of the conversation. A vulnerable narc might say “poor me”. But a grandiose narc will ignore everyone else to say “only look at me. “. ….. it’s the same black hole of insecurity, either way.
This is a very sad situation that I know well. Constant blame shifting for everything. You hit the nail on the head in many respects here. The divorce was costly as he did try for custody (a joke) and a lot more. Kids are thriving now that we have gotten free of him for the most part.
Never, ever, try to reason with a covert narc. It's like talking to a wall. It's best to just get a lawyer and get out. I call them covert instead of vulnerable because they are anything but vulnerable.
Exactly. They are the most dangerous. Calling them vulnerable makes people think they are harmless. I am in the process of divorcing a sociopathic covert narc and even I cannot believe what he was prepared to do to destroy me.
@@sylviaking8866 I hear you. I think the a better term would be insidious. My ex bad mouthed me to everyone she could while I was literally on my knees begging her to tell me what the problem was. Every time I tried to reason with her, she would just shut down. Unbelievable. Best wishes.
@@meetbirdie I don't think you understand this but I could be wrong. Every single "vulnerable" narcissist I've ever met has no problem being a "doormat" to a grandiose narcissist. I'm not calling you one but it is my experience they actually like being abused to give them more "ammunition" to use as a cross to bear. In other words they like being victims for some crazy reason.
They will often try to use the kid as a tool to avoid the abandonment and get a partner back or to lure in another partner by painting the coparent as an abuser or themselves as a victim. Look out.
He recked meals dinners showing off getting loud. The day I did it to him he played like I was the one crazy apologizing and one person at restaurant stood up and said you deserved that I finally felt like I was not losing it Thank you for all you do
Doctor Ramani wake up thinking "if I don't keep talking they will listen the narcissist" - thank you Dr Ramani you and your content are very important!
I stayed in the marriage "for" my son, you know: every child, especially a boy must have a father, bla, bla.. but YES, I feel like a single parent. The financial issues were a nightmare, to the point that now I am the only one who pays the child s needs, thank God I am able to. His father always find a way to avoid it, he waits for the child to beg him, how absurd this can be ? "His inability to accept he is wrong"...so well said !
Im still hanging in and this is one thing that really stops me from leaving. That my son needs a father... And i don't want to screw things up between them... Its so hard..... Despite the fact that my husband makes EVERYTHING in these relationships about HIM. My son doesn't even call him daddy or dad. Calls him by name only, and he's only 3yo. Its tough tough decision to make.
@@sabat8068 yes, teriblly hard ! When my son was 3 or 4 yo, seeing me upset one day, he asked : "mamy, but we love daddy, don t we?". That broke my heart in two and kept me staying for years. Now , my son doesn t want to speak with his father, he tells me he can t wait to move out ( in 2 years he will be 18), bc he has endured the tipical narc abuse, I was at work and my husband jobless in the last 5 years. If only I had known how it will degenerate. I couldn t imagine that he won t be able to be friends with his own child. After my son leaves, I will decide for myself, God give me strenght !
I left my narc ex husband when our kid was 12 months old. I didn't even know what he was doing was called narcissism and gaslighting at the time. I just knew trying to hold him accountable for the mental gymnastics and emotional abuse never got anywhere. He would always say he didn't do anthing wrong and would turn it around on me. I couldn't stay in that marriage for my kid, because I knew my sanity, happiness, and emotional health was in jeopardy because of the person I married. I never wanted our kid growing up to think that being treated that way was healthy or normal. That's what made it easy to leave.
@@avatoast you did good, so brave ! I came to the conclusion that the best time to leave is when the child is very young, later is much more complicated, when he already developed his relation with the father. In my case, there was also cultural and religious issues, the death of my mother 2 weeks after I gave birth to my son..so..
This was so needed! In the middle of a separation/divorce with mine. The interaction is genuinely exhausting. So glad I don’t have to walk on eggshells all day. Anything I was is fought! 🤦♀️ sees everything as an attack! But the qualities you say match verbatim. Gonna just support my 3 yr old and support her. It’s such an exhausting process
Same. Our 2nd court date is this month. He is so victimized by the fact that I'm divorcing him that every single conversation comes back to that. So exhausting trying to communicate about our 5 and 9 year old sons. Sending love and support. We're just doing our best for ourselves and our precious children.
I’m sending love to you all! This is genuinely exhausting! 7 months into separation, he wants out but doesn’t want to pay or fill out paperwork 🙄🤣 I’m free though so I’m at peace! Loving and supporting my daughter through this! We got this!🙌
My Narcissistic husband was predominantly a Grandiose type in his younger years, but as he slowly unraveled his success, he became more of a vulnerable type. His father was an alcoholic, recovered for 15 years when he passed, and alcohol became mine 's best friend although he denied it. I often " joked", of course for me not happily, that I didn't have 3 kids, I had 4 kids. And yes it was exhausting. I finally gave up and filed for divorce after 45 years. Devastating.
Machiavellian! He would wine about his job and life but never do anything to make it change. He excelled at the sport of chopping me off at the knees. He criticized his son to infinity and not constructively. Stealing my personal powerand teaching our son that he doesn't have any doesn't equate with actual power. Especially once I realized I could take that power back. That took divorce, time and outcomes..our son got to see a happy, well adjusted mother instead of a bitter neurotic marriage where I was a single mother anyway. Lesson learned! Our son is better off knowing that there are different ways to be in this world.
I recall being in trouble for weeks (!!) due to regular things as i grew up (getting a job, getting a boyfriend, moving out). Every life event was tainted by my mother’s jealousy.
Spot on. Competition! Yes, this is exactly what has happened in our family. Thank you Dr. Ramani. You just nailed so many of the thoughts and experiences that I have had coparenting with my vulnerable narc husband. Most dinners are a disaster, every holiday and vacation his feelings get hurt for some ridiculous reason, he sucks the joy out of a room. I have become very good at the gray rock approach. But I am really worried about what this is doing to our kids.
When I first saw the title, I thought it was referring to “parenting” the vulnerable narcissist as a child or partner because it really does feel that way sometimes. I was my mom’s mom, and it was exhausting. Everythinf was always about her, and she was the one that always needed help, comforting, and assurance while I got nothing. I’m glad I can finally view my experiences from afar as I parent myself and look after myself in my new life away from her
Thank you Dr R! You are spot on! I always felt that husband of 25 yrs resented how he was treated during childhood. He was middle of three sons , older brother was golden child and could do no wrong and the younger was always the baby. Husband felt “passed over” by parents, now carries over to adulthood. He blames everyone else for his unhappiness, and doesn’t own up to his shortcomings like raging anger , thinks others have an agenda, is judgemental, misinterprets . He is not wired to provide the “emotional” parenting that kids need . Yes, he feels he needs to compete for my attention for our boys . Younger son suffers from anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation for past 2yrs. My energy has been focused on his mental/physical safety. But now husband is saying he cant feel empathy for son. And complains of all the $ we’ve spent on hospitalization and therapy, private school. He doesn’t realize the struggle son is fighting thru. He brings up divorce. I dont have the strength to deal with him when all he has done is blame others .
Yes! Yes! Yes! If only I knew this 27 years age. This is your most importent video to me ever. Thank you so much! I am healed now. I am looking forward to the day, when my two grown up children starts their healing proces. If they ask me for advice, I will show them this one, and they will understand everything! From a very difficult childhood from a divorced home. This is truly an amazing video!
the more I listen to all those narcissitic people things . I aknowledge that they have been hurt or neglect or whatever... and instead of turning down toward the personne who hurt them they vomit all their rage, sadness, hate , .... toward the ones who love them . >They are not at peace and good chance they never will . It is sad for all the people around them.
Maybe it's some kind of extreme form of self hatred? That they believe they should be treated bad not good. And when people love them, they actually hate it and resent them.
This feels like a custom made video, if only my grown up children would be willing to listen to this… Thanks for such validating information Dr. Ramani!
I was raised by a mother stumped by not living up to her father's demands. I cheered and smiled on standby. She needed me. When I married, I found myself in another relationship with an ultimate vulnerable narcissist (and suspect myself of it, too) who manipulated and controlled me, plus claimed ownership over me "under God." Our children were often confused by our different personalities. He was very negative and fearful I am (thru programming) ever-searching for a silver lining (otherwise I'll die, I'll lose hope). The kids and I are on our own now and in therapy. ♡ The wet stinky blanket is a good comparison.
You are not kidding. My children and I have lived it. Fortunately, they have grown up to be very productive members of society. They are pretty well adjusted from my encouraging and showing them a lot of love, but they all wish their had been more available.
I can attest almost all of the things you said. Small snapshots from our family life and now thankfully divorced state. I feel so sorry for my son and I work very hard on undoing the damage his father is causing and at the same time trying not to cause damage myself with the overcompensation. It is damn hard...
This is me too. I've been comparenting for 8 years. My son is 10. My pathetic ex husband has been slowly poisoning my son against me, and I can feel a wedge has formed. Tells him things that kids shouldn't be involved in, including that we were talking to a judge (at age 7), that i am trying to do him harm with ADHD meds (also at 7), too many other things to name. Makes me want to cry. I don't know what else to do.
Yes, my ex-wife was so toxically envious of others, and it never occurred to me she was also envious of me. Anytime we’d have a holiday party she’d get very bitter and resentful of my daughter coming over (daughter never liked to come over because of her).
Thank you Dr. Ramani, I finally understand and can put into words my experiences and constant negative cycles of back and forth with my ex-husband and co-parent. Everything you mentioned is 💯 accurate. Grey Rocking Grey Rocking, Grey Rocking, I refuse to be sucked in anymore.
Thank you for bringing up with this segment. I could go on a cleansing rant here talking of red flags and the devaluation experiences with the vulnerable covert narcissistic partner, but Dr. R has summed up the story of my life :( It's extremely triggering, yet validating. Thank you as always 🌟💛
My wet and smelly blanket vulnerable narcissist of an adopted mother died about 7 years ago. She adopted 5 out of her 6 kids and messed them all up pretty good. Thankfully I remember the love of my birth mother, and so that saved me from a lot of heartache that my other adopted siblings went through, due to not having anyone genuinely loving in their childhood. Two scapegoats, two ignored ones, and two golden children. Both golden children became narcissists (this includes her one bio kid). Take a guess which one I was (hint: Golden child turned scapegoat, truth teller forever). 💕💕
I am so grateful for all your work, Dr Ramani, but for this video and subject in particular. We all knew my father, a successful lawyer & politician, was a narcissist but I didn't realise my mother was a vulnerable narcissist. As a young child I became her therapist & cheerleader. By adolescence she was suicidal and "depressed." Before I left for school I would get her dressed and off to work while she wept. I was afraid she would be dead from suicide when I came home which had the added of toxicity of not inviting friends home in case she was dead. I spent my entire life, til she died, worrying about her, rescuing her emotionally while she ignored me, my inner life and ALL my struggles. She would, literally, immediately change the subject when I began to talk about me, lol! I always thought she was just suffering from major depression. But, now I understand the damage she did to me and how she (with the aid of my father) set me up for a LIFETIME (!) of catering to abusive & toxic narcissists. Oh my! I am about to be 60! Although, I am grieving the years I spent with toxic narcissists who didn't deserve me, at least now I understand these patterns. Thank-you, Dr Ramani, for giving me the transformational gift and 20/20 vision about narcissism and how it has impacted me. You are a wonder! You have set me free! #setfree
So much of this hit home for me. I raised four children with a vulnerable narcissist. Money was a huge issue, even when seeking medical attention. I would take my kids if I felt they needed it and face their angry father afterwards. My kids grew up feeling guilty for being sick. I still feel guilt over raising them in such a toxic environment. He also demanded my time and complained when I put my babies needs above him. I would have left him but financially couldn’t afford it. I also struggled with depression that made me think I couldn’t survive with out my husband.
I am gobsmacked. I've been trying to figure out specifically which type of NPD my husband is . . . just 10 minutes into this episode and it's crystal clear.
God I can't imagine my father's level of pain... therapist to his narcissistic mother, narcissistic wife, and children with CPTSD. He could never relax, he had to constantly deal with putting fires at home while being the exhausted breadwinner with his own serious health issues, being hit with everyone's traumas and various states of dysregulation, and the only thing he knew how to do was to keep trying to fix everything. He really tried hard. I wish he could slow down and realize he doesn't deserve this --- watching how he was treated in his marriage was and is heartbreaking. No human being deserves this. It doesn't mean I forgive the enabling, lack of dealbreakers, toxic positivity, or his choice to be a flying monkey now, and it doesn’t mean I enable him to avoid his own accountability and growth, but I cannot wait for the day he wakes up and realize he doesn't deserve this shit.
100% ACCURATE! I was having trouble figuring out the type of narcissist that my ex is but I'm now positive he is a vulnerable narcissist. He really didn't fight that hard for custody... it was just too much work for him, since our little one is still only 2.
Im the only child outta 5 living with Narcissistic father in his early 70s and sane normal mother in her early 60s. Im torn between them two and my own issues in life. There's no way outta this situation for me right now. Im praying everyday for my life to change and get better.
Ohmygosh! My dad totally picked up partners with his sob story about being a single father. Never mind the road he took to get there. He was always looking for the next replacement to discipline the kids so he could be the “fun parent”. I intentionally looked for a partner that was the opposite of my dad in many ways. Yet here I sit realizing that I fell for another vulnerable narcissist and married him. But he never complained, or was passive aggressive until after we tied the knot. (Only 6 months later!) 🤦♀️ 18 years later….. Indeed to learn to coparent. Thank you for making this video.
living with mine it was always “poor me..my childhood was bad….”. i was so sick of it trying to constantly to talk him into snapping out of it. he was jealous of our kids. while and after leaving him he has gone to extraordinary lengths to get the kids favor by being the best dad out there. so much fun. their best friend. planting seeds to them constantly about me. it’s been really hard getting my children back. always 2 steps forward, 3 back, 1 forward. etc. he bought a house 2 blocks from me. he just won’t ever go away. it’s like i still have to deal with him everyday. “will i ever be free?”.
My dad wasn’t a narcissist like this but my mother treated him like he was. She would always talk about how hard he works and how he’s built all he has without any help like “most people get”, and that’s why we needed to essentially serve him and then get out of his way when he wanted us to leave him alone when he was home. She was always making excuses for his poor behavior and acting like we should be so grateful for all he does for us, especially since his childhood was so bad. 🤦🏼♀️
Oh my... what was she projecting??? Sounds a bit like my parents, some weird codependency-dance AROUND eachother whithout really honestly and safe discussing their needs WHITH eachother or something like that. My mum is a vulnerable mostly covert narc though.
My son is only 4.5 yrs old but my covert narc ex, his father, recently turned the facts that his dad only answered 12/23 days of my daily “ordered calls.” I told him, when I got him back that I called him daily & it wasn’t that I didn’t live him that I barely got to talk to him. I didn’t tell him who’s fault it was. But when my son brought it up with his dad, his dad turned it around in me & blamed it all on me… something my 4.5 year old did not understand, my son told his dad what he wanted Him to hear. Something kids do… he turned it around on me. The narc became the victim & I became the perpetrator. Classic & sad that my 4.5 year old got caught in between & I was put to blame.
I first thought that my father was more of a vulnerable narc. That is certainly how he presented in his coparenting style and in his relationnships with other adults in general. But watching this series makes me realise that he was actually very malignant with his children. He certainly made me feel a lot of pity and guilt growing up, but fear was the dominating emotion for me. And he used the vulnerable facade with other adults to better hide the abuse he was putting us through. When my parents separated, my mother just couldn't believe the memories we told her. She really had convinced herself that she was protecting us by staying. Talk about manipulation and denial!
This IS my life… it’s so frustrating and overwhelming.. I find My experience co-parenting with my vulnerable narcissistic parent because I myself have difficulty with empathy/sympathy (I have been diagnosed, also with complex ptsd) but for some reason I have all the empathy and sympathy for my son (but not so much others) so I find it super hard because i struggle empathizing with my ex because he has these meltdowns and I just can’t nurture them.. and I seem cold and harsh which makes them that much more difficult to “deal with” and then I’m to blame for all sorts of other reasons., My child is able to feel all the things he wants with me/and walks on egg shells with my ex husband in the same ways I did. I find it easier just to do everything on my own… good luck to all the other parents out there co parenting in similar situations..
Yep, this is soo true, I’ve been a single -married parent for 9 years now! I stopped falling into his traps. I don’t coddle , I don’t react when he’s having a tantrum. My oldest sees it and he’s only 8! I don’t excuse their dads behavior , but I don’t put him down either. When he’s having a tantrum, we keep doing what we are doing and ignore him. We don’t depend on him to go on outings , we don’t even plan on him coming ( he’ll make it unpleasant anyway.) He will usually fake an illness not to go anyway. Finding the right kind of therapy is very difficult .
OMG I've noticed that I've done/said some of that stuff to my kids 😓 so far I only focused on what he's done wrong. Apart from healing from the narcisstic relationship and abuse I clearly have to work on my own behaviour especially towards my kids. They deserve so much better from me.
Spot on!! Co parented with a vulnerable narrcist way before people knew about or or talked about it. He still thinks "if only" We both grew up poor but he really does think he could win the lottery or pick the right stock or wouldn't have sold XYZ stock. Everybody else had advantages he didn't, inheritances etc I tried to pacify him for years, pointing out what we did have, 2 intelligence wonderful children, a nice house etc. but of course, like you said, only made him angry. He can't be happy himself or for anyone else, like my nephew who just purchased a very expensive house, I could tell that really stuck a bee in his bonnet. He had to go look it up online! Everyday I'm learning, thanks to this videos & a great therapist who gets it. The dinner scene was so spot on, brought back memories of those tense dinner times, say or do the wrong thing & the gates of hell would be thrown open.
Parenting with a vulnerable narcissist is very, very, very lonely. This beginning scenario sounds like where I might be someday. Our three kids are all under 5. My husband was an orphan from Russia and adopted into “a family that didn’t love him” so he’s like the poster child victim. He ignores our kids a lot..or yells at them. I wanted to point this out because I find it so ridiculous. He acts like the kids even injure him. Even our 5 month old baby head butts him and pulls his beard so he rarely holds her unless I ask him too. He was on board with me homeschooling but then he cheated on me one of the first weeks I was trying to homeschool 😅 so that shows you how much he think of me/us. The thing that’s got me through is God. I was not a Christian before I met him and now I am & my help comes from the Lord. Thank you so much for making these videos 💗
Out of the 100s of videos and books and resources I have read THIS is the first one - including everyone’s comments to really connect the dots and give a full picture of who I am dealing with. Everything else just comes very close - even though he scored 20 on Dr Rs narc quiz.
My co-parent spouse would get SO upset if I even looked at them "wrong" when they would cross the line and begin speaking to our child in an abusive tone. I would be accused if undermining their authority and not having their back. The saddest thing... he was channeling his own parents way of communicating and speaking to *his* child in the same manner that *he* despised as a kid. The underhanded comments about our child's achievements... the passive/aggressive coercive control... this video is sooooo on point. I'd love to see another one focused on adult children and divorce/separation.
The self-righteous, authoritative communication style is disgusting beyond words. I am mourning 30 lost yrs of my life to such a parasite and, exposing my children to a loveless and disrespectful environment. Towards the end of the relationship, when you can't take it anymore, you will be a piece of rag to them. If you think they treated you like crap during the relationship, it gets ten times worse when you want to leave, then you truly see the person that you have given your whole self to. I had no clue at all about narcissism, I lost my passion for life, I have mental and physical illness. I've seen psychologists over the years for depression but not one mentioned that I could be in an emotionally abusive marriage, It was all about building my self-esteem and getting physically active to overcome depression. My advice is to GET OUT asap! 3 steps are; self-education, acceptance and action. Don't waste your life!
Thank you. Succinctly describes my co-parenting experience perfectly in every single way. Hit every nail on the head …. Alienating and passive aggressive. … My mind boggles at their lack of insight.
My wife is a vulnerable narcissist, and she definitely is an abuser. Mostly she uses emotional abuse, but sometimes, once or twice a year happens that her rage is so furious that she physically assaults me. The worst episodes were when I attempted to leave her. She menaced to commit a suicide if I leave her, but never really attempted to commit it. Want to divorce her, but problem is we have a small child born this year. I'm planning to wait at least until our baby will be one year old, and not dependent on breast feeding. And I'm really worried if she wouldn't try to prevent me spending time with our child in future.
I never wanted to be seen anywhere with my narc mother; it was like being with an embarrassing child who never learned social skills. I remember many nights I would pray that her and my father would just get a divorce so I could have some peace.
Jesus Christ is SO REAL. AMEN???? Dr- I am battling a panic attack as I type however THANK YOU THANKYOUTJAKUOJ FOR PUTTING SO MANY OF OUR WORDS INTO THOUGHTS. I TRULY HAVE FAITH THAT THIS VERY VIDEO WILL BREAK MY CLOSEST LOVED ONES DENIAL. BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK TOO. AND THE GUILT- bc we understand….we brought that devil HERE. But shit. We need you. WE LOVE YOU, respect you, always wanted to protect you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. To you DR- & to God as well bc I did turn my back & PROVED YOURSELF LORD IN A WAY THAT STILL IS CONTINUING TO MAKE MY JAW DROP. PLEASE TAKE THIS AS YOUR SIGN. DO IT. HANDLE SHIT LATER. GOD TRULY DOES GOT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US 🤍🤍🤍🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I think a much needed conversation is how many if not all picks a child they have a unhealthy fascination with..I notice it tends to be the one that looks like them/ opposite sex to them…My dad would speak badly against my mum and spoil me. We would even watch adult scenes together from when I was six to desensitise me and confide in me waaay too much. He would date women who looked just like me..I ended up dating the same kind of man who was doing the same to his daughter, having her sit literally on his groin all the time. I eventually found inappropriate pictures of her on his phone and then hundreds of child pornography on computer. Narcissists and pedophilia is a conversation that really needs to had as it is usually guised as good parenting with a narcissist.It is very very common and I dont really hear this conversation much 😞
Yes, I think the physical similarity fascination is very common with narc parents. I have a vulnerable narc mother and I also look more like her than my sister. My 'role' in life w
Your analogy around the dinner table really rang true with me. In the year or two before my X left, she would more often than not turn the table into a battlefield at dinner time. I was always the target, quickly my three kids got involved and it was 4 against one. The topic was always about something I wasn’t good enough at, or something I didn’t do. This methodology has continued even after separation, when I have custody of the kids, it’s terrible to hear the things they say (they sound just like their Mum). How shall I deal with this?? James from Queensland Australia
Every word is so accurate, it hurts. If only I had these insights ages ago, before I was 16 years married, 2 years divorced and coparenting with my vulnerable narc. All I can do now is try to move on while our teen bears the brunt of the rages and silent treatments. Thank goodness we have a good therapist on our team.
Thank you Dr Ramani xx Being raised by a vulnerable narcissistic mother to then co parent with a separated vulnerable narcissistic father to my children, is exactly what you said... tiring, hard work and may I add, damaging 😪 Your advice & support is always appreciated. Thank you x
I never realized how competitive my parents were with me. I remember hearing "oh, government and big business are dismantling benefits, you'll be lucky to have any when you grow up" as a balance to "we never had the opportunities you had." I guess I tried to show my own balance by being equally worried/apologetic for each.
OMG I wish I found you earlier narcissistic didn’t always explain my ex’s personality but this vulnerable narcissist is totally him…now to work on helping my two sons deal with being co parented by him…one has Down Syndrome so a little more of a struggle
In my experience, they are just as concerned with their kids achieving and appearing very successful. They just want to delegate all of the parenting that goes into such achievements. And when something goes awry, then they just try to parent by directive. “You should have done this, said that, etc.” They don’t parent in the trenches. They just look from on high and then do the blame game.
😳 - poor anger regulation, lack of genuine empathy, entitlement, grandiosity, need to control, need for their needs to hold the spotlight, need to be emotionally rescued even by children - Manage to ruin most special moments and occasions - emotionally competitive (with partners and children) - assign responsibility to others including kids for their happiness - oppositional - resent handing “their” money (withholding agreed-to support), over spend on themselves but - having the funds - choose mostly low quality items for the children - children feel the pressure to be their cheerleader It can be more subtle and the narcissistic vulnerability (fragility, envy, passive aggression, etc) can manifest differently. It’s more of a spectrum, so there are some who fall more towards the center (fragility + preening + image crafting rather than outwardly sullen/depressed). Hero-victims.
When the kids would mess up and make mistakes the narcissist, their mother, often would "explain" to them the nature of their mistakes and simply spoil any possibility that the children could grow from there life experiences! This happened during meals or afterwords when the kids were "required" to sit down and listen to her pontificate and explain just how everything was supposed to be or even in some cases how it was when she was growing up.... it was really awful for us, myself and my children to be subjected to this kind of "bully behavior" by their mother! 😱
As a mother I need to hear this. Thank you. I was raised by Narcissists, I have propensity to lean that way, too when I'm unaware: tired, anxious, worried, or sick. ♡
Same situation here squire. Always saying how things were in their day, and she is very strict with them! Which in and of itself isn't so bad, but it's unreasonably strict sometimes. I'm still trying to keep the ship afloat!
Doctor Ramani! Every one of your videos is extraordinary. Well explained, clear, exact. Helping to find the right balance between the mind numbing frustration and anger and the deep shame caused by narcissism. Some of your videos are so spot on that they are too difficult to be heard in one sitting. This was one of them for me. Enlightening and elucidating, giving words to all the craziness i have experienced in my life. But so sad... You are a master at this and i am deeply grateful for the wealth of your knowledge that you share. Thank you!
My dad is a vulnerable narcissist, but perhaps I don't relate with this so much because I knew to just shut up when he started his "poor me" charade and just finish eating and go lock myself in my room. He rarely ever noticed anyway, he'd just pester my mom for the rest of the night.
Wow, this is so accurate and so helpful. Although it’s been years, I finally can put a name to this relationship and get validation for my feelings. Helps me believe in my way even more and know for sure that I should keep taking steps to protect my kids and help them not personalize the narc attitude they need to deal with. Thank you!
Being in a marriage with a person like this literally feels like being in a circus . However running the circus successfully leads to insult , attack and mockery . It’s impossible to live this way . I’ve never heard anyone speak about this until you Dr.Ramani. Thank you for your insight . Please share more about the competitiveness a narcissist feels towards their children and the abusive toll it takes on them. This aspect in our lives feels suffocating and cruel and backwards and it makes me cry . If I feel this way I cannot even imagine how my kids feel in their own skin . Perhaps with some more of your wisdom I can offer my kids a real chance at feeling worthy and unashamed for the truly fantastic little people they really are . Thank you and bless your ❤️
Omg. This happened with my kids and my ex. And still with my kids in college. It's was so tense at dinner when they were growing up. And now as young adult i feel sorry for them. Im glad i dont have to share the table with him.
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I divorced him because that stuff sends me into a rage in order to protect my kids but then I became the bad and mean person who can’t just be nice to him. Its totally ridiculous.
Same here! Oh my goodness, his life is SO HARD, and NOBODY IS HELPING HIM.
🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
@@patriciaviles4033 exactly and his every failure in life including being a terrible parent is my fault. At this point I have resigned because defending myself was robbing me of my peace.
@@vanessadrew-branch5321 Just keep reminding yourself, “grey rock, grey rock, grey rock.” Ignore any insults, threats, or lies, as if he never said them. Only respond to relevant questions or information. Be like a pane of glass on which they keep trying to find a handhold. They’ll make an awful racket, but they won’t be able to hook their claws in you when there is no purchase to be had.
It’s so hard though!
Reading this makes me so angry... Where these stupid jerks are coming from!
@@vanessadrew-branch5321 same here... I was always the one who is yelling... After quite a while I've realized that I was channeling his anger. He was always unsatisfied and unpleased with something and wasn't able to express that and then I - as a hypersensitive person with poor boundaries - picked up everything he felt and was angry at something that didn't bother me at all.
And then he was like: "See, I told you. You're always pissed of." 🤬🤦🏼♀️
As I was young and very naive, exactly the constant complaining of the narcissits about his unfair life attracted me. The helper in me wanted to fix all the unhapiness. I thought a lot of unconditional love I was ready to give to him would fix the bad things and we would live happily ever after. After a few years I was the one crying for help. But he was cold and indifferent. I was depressed a few years, I past depression, I even gave a new chance to the narcissist: a new beginnning, me trying again to do everything perfectly. Because first time maybe I was the one who did a mistake and that's why the narcissist was still unhappy. I worked myself to exhaustion to please him: job, clean house, homecooked meals, taking care of the children alone, to give time and space to the narcissist to relax, take care of his hobbies and be happy. Nothing helped. He is still grumpy, unthankful, hateful, full of resentment and mean. I will concentrate my energy now to the children. They really need my help to deal with all kind of ugly situations their father puts them into. Helping the narcissist is pointless. He will never be happy anyway. Nothing is ever enough.
Yes, and when you stop doing all the things they enjoyed and got use to, they really turn on the victim mode. They are miserable people.
Sounds like exactly what I did! I’m narc free for almost 4 years!
I have been dealing with this for 23 years. It never gets better. You just get better at expecting nothing. My list of responsibilities grew exponentially. I finally am burnt all the way out. I do not even recognize myself. The damage to my children was so horrific and so severe...it was not worth it. I stayed out of fear of them being alone with him without me. Constant ups and downs. But whenever he feels bad about himself he lashes out. Never ever satisfied. Always the victim. Screaming " You don't care about me!" Calling us every name in the book. Pushing away his family and my family and being in competition with his own kids to the point of sabotaging the family. It is so tragic. And I am burnt out from trying to " prove" I love him. I am depleted, trying to heal from all of these ailments, and he doesn't care.
OMG same!
Spot on
Oh my gosh. The seething resentment for just asking for help. This is my ex husband exactly. He also passively aggressively did everything that I asked him to do wrong on purpose.
That was my raging narcissist father. He absolutely hated having to do ANYTHING around the house that men usually take care of. He didn't want to do anything period. So if he had to he not only made it hell for us, screaming, raging, throwing and breaking things, but he also began purposely doing all of those things wrong. My brother and I starting at a very young age learned to do the things he was supposed to do and did them just to keep from having to deal him in that state.
My mom was just as abused as us kids if not more. But as for her as a parent, she was a wonderful mom. Very loving and caring. We (my brother and I) were also trying to protect her from his wrath in our attempts to try to make sure the creap didn't have to do anything. But you know how it is with extreme narcissists, they always find excuses to blow up about anything and everything.
Yep, that's weaponized incompetence!
yes, yes, yes. And his "need" to DIY rather than hire a trained expert always ends up often needing redone and costing more time, effort and money.
Oh lord, the seething resentment! Ever present in my former marriage.
She said, “It’s like living with a wet and smelly blanket all the time!” Classic!
lol...so true.
Once I heard someone say” Narcs always have untreated foot fungus” and this reminded me of that😂
@@kjen1516
... the violent narc that I'm with , literally has a foot fungus infection and that azzhol* blames me for his lack of hygiene 😂
Who is boring and no longer wears makeup or goes out Friday night. 😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂 ew
You just recounted the story of my married life. Your description of living with oppression "like a wet, stinky blanket" is so accurate. Thank God I survived and I'm well on my way thriving. Not looking back.
I'm living with an older vulnerable narcissist and it gets harder every day. He has no relationship with his daughter, nor her children. He won't talk about anything and gets defensive if it's brought up. He is a sullen brooder, and plays the victim to the hilt. Thanks to you, and others Dr. Ramani, I know what I'm dealing with and I don't take it personal. I'm looking for a way out because my patience has run out and I want my sanity back.
Consider him to be a plant. Every now and then he needs some food and water. The rest of the time you can have your healthy life on your own. It's so much easier said then done, but it might be worth considering when you want or have to to stay together.
Just let him sullenly brood. Let him sulk in silence. He will gather dust while you go out and have fun.
Good for you. Don't waste your health and sanity. Get out. ASAP. Whatever it takes. No matter how much you try to ignore a person like that it does gradually harm you regardless. It wears down your sympathetic nervous system. Your subconscious starts behaving as if you are always unsafe, and that is too much for anyone's body mind or soul to deal with for very long. Just leave. Sooner the better.
@@Picca65 you have good intentions, but that's only the last resort solution. Getting away from them & out from under their poisonous cloud is absolutely critically necessary.
@@MellowBellow1 you also have good intentions, but that's only the last resort solution. Getting away is most critical.
Oh god this is so true! Me and 4 children carefully tip toeing around this man, avoiding his rages, manipulations and self pity. It’s draining and so lonely to have to manage an infantile person like this. He’s not a partner, but an extra child. It really wasn’t apparent when I first met him, although I knew there was something wrong, but misunderstood it all, being so young and naive at the time. Only when children came into the picture, did it start to really come out, and it continues to get worse, year by year. It breaks my heart to see how adept my kids are managing these personalities, at their ages. Dr Ramini really knows her stuff, people, because I am living this nightmare.
Same here
@@meetbirdie thank you so much for your kindness. You really do get it. I think ordinary people just can’t, unless they have been through it, a world of distortion. Yes, love and pity for him is the reason I stay, for the brief moments when the sun comes out...
My same experience for over 20 years. I deeply feel your pain.
This video and your comment were the beginning of the end of my marriage. I could no longer ignore my partner's behaviors. Dr. Ramani opened my eyes and gave me language to describe my life. The awakening has taken me through the depths of despair and I am walking tall out the other side. If you're reading this and think you; 're stuck and can never escape -- yes, you can and you're worth it. The hard is the way.
You are describing my situation. I also have 4 children. I'm in the process of divorcing this person.😊
This really hits home for me. It’s always about him and the rage is crazy! My son even tells me that daddy has anger issues, but he already knows he can’t tell his dad this.
This is exactly, my number one struggle in life right now. I have to try to protect and nurture my children while divorcing and co-parenting with a vulnerable & covert Narcissist.
So much of this resonates. So much whining about not being included with the child because "you're trying to keep my from having a relationship with my own kids"- then not showing up for the school's halloween parade, despite everything from the costume to locating the schedule being handled. Complaining that the local rec softball, which the child has begged to participate in, is "going to have parents who act like jerks" because he feels intimidated. Complaining that BoyScouts should be between him and the child but being "super busy at work and being attacked by my clients" when it comes to actually attending the meetings.
It feels like some sort of life-long prison sentence having to coparent with a vulnerable narcissist.
Sounds so familiar!! He wanted me to get the kids into sports, swim lessons, dance etc. I'd be the 1 running them around like crazy & he'd be bitching that dinner was not on the table at 5:30 sharp, just like his dad. He yelled at our son when he was in grade school, playing basketball, in the middle of a game. Guess who never played basketball again?! Told the daughter in 4th grade she couldn't join basketball because she lost her glasses at school. He told me once about how his father wouldn't let him try out for the basketball team in hs for whatever reason. Just a few small examples of an 18+ year sh*t show. Once when our daughter was a teen, he hid her car at the neighbor's house & when I put my foot down, he took all the keys & hid them. She didn't do anything that bad, I think she yelled at him. I was always in the middle, feeling they needed discipline but not revenge. I wish you well & hope you are done with all that!
Mine is still mad I didn’t make our thirteen year old call him on my nex’s birthday, even though I arranged for an extra visit the day before the birthday…
During which I BROKE MY LEG.
I didn’t “make” our son call his dad that day BECAUSE I WAS UNCONSCIOUS HAVING A TITANIUM ROD INSERTED IN MY LEG.
I’m such a b***h!
Mom is the VNarc here...and Dad was, unfortunately very unavailable. I barely recall him. He went off to work, or hunting or fishing...and mowed the lawn. He wasn't available emotionally at all to me, and not sure if he was to my sisters, except the one he was closer to as an adult. It was like an emotional vacuum where I could not share any of my feelings with anyone. Mom wouldn't allow it and Dad just wasn't there, even when he was at home.
I'm doing what I can to heal now. I appreciate these videos. They remind me I am not alone. They remind me it is an actual thing that happened, and it's not at all crazy that I have CPTSD...it's just the fallout, and not my fault. For a long time I have believed it was ME, and they were all normal. It's taken a long time to see that isn't true.
I wish all the best for you on your path to healing. It was NOT and never was your fault. Define, find and keep YOUR happiness.💞💯
It was same with me, my mother ist vulnerable narcissist and my father is an alcoholic. All I have been doing for year was trying to make my mom happy and I have never succeeded. Since I was 11 the roles have switched so I was mother to her. And I was always blamed for every little inconvenience. On the other side my father didn’t care for my brother and me. I have been struggling for years with feeling of shame and guilt. I hate that I have lost myself into serving my mother and others. I became people pleaser because I believed that thats the only way to keep peace in relationships.
Wow this is my brother
Can't thank you enough for your knowledge sharing.. it's like feeling the rain when dying lonely in a desert
Thank you for your kind words and for supporting this channel!!
I got away from the “vulnerable narc” I was in a relationship with and I’m so glad that I did and I mean states away!
I did the same thing 2 weeks ago. Best thing I ever did for myself.
W
My 2 cents: If you have to co-parent with an abuser, please teach your children that the abuser's behavior is not normal. Support and love the heck out of your children. You can also demonstrate to your kids on how to deal with bullies. And as Dr. Ramani said, please seek help for yourself as well. ❤️
Exactly, we can't gaslight our kids and let them think all is well when everyone is suffering.
@@poofurgone78 Yes!!! Coming from being raised with 2 parents like this, i wish i would have had atleast one parent or somebody growing up that could have been my north star. It may have made a difference in my life instead of blaming myself. But anyways, I’m grateful that i did get to eventually see things clearly when i moved out and work on changing my life around.
I am in tears because this has been my life. My heart is breaking for my adult children. How could I have let them suffer through this? If only someone had told me these things 3 years ago
I meant to say if only someone had told me these things 33 years ago. I knew something was wrong, but the therapists I consulted never told me this.
@@ramonatolles2316 I went to a lot of therapists & Alanon too. They never picked up on it, idk why not. Was I ever shocked when I found out! I had no idea there were people just like him & that there was a name for what I had been going through for so long. Aside from his drinking, I really thought there was something so wrong with me, that our life was so chaotic!
@@sahdogwrangler5594 it is so sad. It's so chaotic. The gaslighting and manipulation have us where we don't know what to believe.
@Nicole Colwell my children and I have talked about it.
@@sahdogwrangler5594 Sadly narcissists are pros at lying to them and hiding their true nature. Couples therapy unfortunately almost never works (for narcs specifically, I mean - they use it to further manipulate).
My ex husband's "If only" moment, the one where he excuses himself from being a parent to our daughter would have to be, "I never have and never will have any say in anything. It's always what you want." So the "If only" would be, I would have a better relationship with my daughter if only I had more say in raising her. This is his passive aggressive stab at me because I have confronted him when he was being unreasonable and too harsh with our daughter. This was the biggest weapon in his gaslighting arsenal. It really had me stuck for a long time. Asking myself if I was really being so overbearing in the relationship and doing damage to his and our daughter's relationship. Over the years I came to realize that he actually dumped all of the responsibility of everything into my shoulders. He forced me into the role of being his mother as well. So, yes, I was in charge, completely. Therefore ANYTHING that went wrong, any conflict in the home, anything and everything was somehow my fault. He absolved himself of all adult responsibility. There was so much conflict between him and our daughter that she was so relieved when he left. I keep checking in with her to see if she is OK. It seems like she's never been happier..🤷♀️
I don't know you, but if your daughter says she's fine....she probably is. I've been waiting for years for my mom to finally divorce my dad. When she finally did, years after I was ready, I was thrilled. She was so confused, but having that piece of shit out of my life was the best thing that ever happened to me. I was 15 when we left, now I'm 22. Best decision I ever made was blocking him entirely out of my life.
I swear they are one of the same species! I get blamed for every single thing... You didn't teach the boys to do chores, you didn't set boundaries, they turned out this way because you were too lenient etc. My response;-- sounds like you didn't even exist! where the hell were you over the last 22 years! I swear I saw you hanging around here! Was that not you?? He was lost for words..
Yes!!! I noticed this when we moved into a new home (I thought a new house would be a new life; bigger house, bigger problems) and he kept saying, “it’s your house, do what you want.”
Translation: your house, your responsibility, just make sure I have a man cave so I can play Xbox without children bothering me.
Yup. You protect your child from obviously dangerous negligence or abusive rage, and now you are "undermining" them, or "won't LET them help", or "I have no say"..... there is no logic here.
My vulnerable narc is a bit different. While the children are telling their story he will just take over the conversation by talking about himself, not acknowledging them. It doesn’t matter what the conversation is about he always has a story to tell about his life and how great he is. Recently my daughter asked us to send her some funny baby pictures OF HER for a school project. The pictures he sent HAD HIM in the them! He always inserts himself into every nook and cranny🤮🤒
Lol pathetic right?
Is he vulnerable or grandiose ….? If he’s vulnerable, then he is the same as this video describes in that Dr Ramani explains that the “drama🤣” is all about the narc and everyone else gets excluded and suffocated out of the conversation. A vulnerable narc might say “poor me”. But a grandiose narc will ignore everyone else to say “only look at me. “. ….. it’s the same black hole of insecurity, either way.
Amazing, isn’t it?
I was gonna write "stupid i*iot" when a window popped up asking "are you sure you wanna post tbis inappropriate comment? :D yeah.....
This is my vul-narc too. And he would seethe when I told him not to talk over our 5yo
This is a very sad situation that I know well. Constant blame shifting for everything. You hit the nail on the head in many respects here. The divorce was costly as he did try for custody (a joke) and a lot more. Kids are thriving now that we have gotten free of him for the most part.
Never, ever, try to reason with a covert narc. It's like talking to a wall. It's best to just get a lawyer and get out. I call them covert instead of vulnerable because they are anything but vulnerable.
Exactly. They are the most dangerous. Calling them vulnerable makes people think they are harmless. I am in the process of divorcing a sociopathic covert narc and even I cannot believe what he was prepared to do to destroy me.
Ya our problem is Nobody Else sees what our Covert Narcs do. Everybody Else sees their Vulnerability, not their Narcissism.
@@sylviaking8866 I hear you. I think the a better term would be insidious. My ex bad mouthed me to everyone she could while I was literally on my knees begging her to tell me what the problem was. Every time I tried to reason with her, she would just shut down. Unbelievable. Best wishes.
@@sparkygump guilty of low key loving the term insidious for this.
@@meetbirdie I don't think you understand this but I could be wrong. Every single "vulnerable" narcissist I've ever met has no problem being a "doormat" to a grandiose narcissist. I'm not calling you one but it is my experience they actually like being abused to give them more "ammunition" to use as a cross to bear. In other words they like being victims for some crazy reason.
They will often try to use the kid as a tool to avoid the abandonment and get a partner back or to lure in another partner by painting the coparent as an abuser or themselves as a victim. Look out.
He recked meals dinners showing off getting loud. The day I did it to him he played like I was the one crazy apologizing and one person at restaurant stood up and said you deserved that
I finally felt like I was not losing it
Thank you for all you do
Hooray for divine intervention and a good person who was paying attention and willing to say it aloud. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Doctor Ramani wake up thinking "if I don't keep talking they will listen the narcissist" - thank you Dr Ramani you and your content are very important!
I stayed in the marriage "for" my son, you know: every child, especially a boy must have a father, bla, bla.. but YES, I feel like a single parent. The financial issues were a nightmare, to the point that now I am the only one who pays the child s needs, thank God I am able to. His father always find a way to avoid it, he waits for the child to beg him, how absurd this can be ?
"His inability to accept he is wrong"...so well said !
Im still hanging in and this is one thing that really stops me from leaving. That my son needs a father... And i don't want to screw things up between them... Its so hard..... Despite the fact that my husband makes EVERYTHING in these relationships about HIM. My son doesn't even call him daddy or dad. Calls him by name only, and he's only 3yo. Its tough tough decision to make.
@@sabat8068 yes, teriblly hard ! When my son was 3 or 4 yo, seeing me upset one day, he asked : "mamy, but we love daddy, don t we?". That broke my heart in two and kept me staying for years. Now , my son doesn t want to speak with his father, he tells me he can t wait to move out ( in 2 years he will be 18), bc he has endured the tipical narc abuse, I was at work and my husband jobless in the last 5 years. If only I had known how it will degenerate. I couldn t imagine that he won t be able to be friends with his own child.
After my son leaves, I will decide for myself, God give me strenght !
I left my narc ex husband when our kid was 12 months old. I didn't even know what he was doing was called narcissism and gaslighting at the time. I just knew trying to hold him accountable for the mental gymnastics and emotional abuse never got anywhere. He would always say he didn't do anthing wrong and would turn it around on me. I couldn't stay in that marriage for my kid, because I knew my sanity, happiness, and emotional health was in jeopardy because of the person I married. I never wanted our kid growing up to think that being treated that way was healthy or normal. That's what made it easy to leave.
@@avatoast you did good, so brave !
I came to the conclusion that the best time to leave is when the child is very young, later is much more complicated, when he already developed his relation with the father. In my case, there was also cultural and religious issues, the death of my mother 2 weeks after I gave birth to my son..so..
Thank you! I am in the middle of the divorce now. For many years, I thought I was crazy. You're describing my situation.
This was so needed! In the middle of a separation/divorce with mine. The interaction is genuinely exhausting. So glad I don’t have to walk on eggshells all day. Anything I was is fought! 🤦♀️ sees everything as an attack! But the qualities you say match verbatim. Gonna just support my 3 yr old and support her. It’s such an exhausting process
I'm going through the same....I'm exhausted after just a conversation. I also have a 3 year daughter
Same. Our 2nd court date is this month. He is so victimized by the fact that I'm divorcing him that every single conversation comes back to that. So exhausting trying to communicate about our 5 and 9 year old sons. Sending love and support. We're just doing our best for ourselves and our precious children.
We haven't made it to court yet. I'm so ready to be done with all of this. I wish you luck. Because we all need it smh
I’m sending love to you all! This is genuinely exhausting! 7 months into separation, he wants out but doesn’t want to pay or fill out paperwork 🙄🤣 I’m free though so I’m at peace! Loving and supporting my daughter through this! We got this!🙌
@@chichibonita How sweet of you to wish everyone well! These NARCS try to SUCK the BEAUTIFUL qualities in "US"all.
My Narcissistic husband was predominantly a Grandiose type in his younger years, but as he slowly unraveled his success, he became more of a vulnerable type. His father was an alcoholic, recovered for 15 years when he passed, and alcohol became mine 's best friend although he denied it. I often " joked", of course for me not happily, that I didn't have 3 kids, I had 4 kids. And yes it was exhausting. I finally gave up and filed for divorce after 45 years. Devastating.
Machiavellian! He would wine about his job and life but never do anything to make it change. He excelled at the sport of chopping me off at the knees. He criticized his son to infinity and not constructively.
Stealing my personal powerand teaching our son that he doesn't have any doesn't equate with actual power. Especially once I realized I could take that power back. That took divorce, time and outcomes..our son got to see a happy, well adjusted mother instead of a bitter neurotic marriage where I was a single mother anyway. Lesson learned!
Our son is better off knowing that there are different ways to be in this world.
I recall being in trouble for weeks (!!) due to regular things as i grew up (getting a job, getting a boyfriend, moving out). Every life event was tainted by my mother’s jealousy.
Spot on. Competition! Yes, this is exactly what has happened in our family.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. You just nailed so many of the thoughts and experiences that I have had coparenting with my vulnerable narc husband.
Most dinners are a disaster, every holiday and vacation his feelings get hurt for some ridiculous reason, he sucks the joy out of a room.
I have become very good at the gray rock approach. But I am really worried about what this is doing to our kids.
When I first saw the title, I thought it was referring to “parenting” the vulnerable narcissist as a child or partner because it really does feel that way sometimes. I was my mom’s mom, and it was exhausting. Everythinf was always about her, and she was the one that always needed help, comforting, and assurance while I got nothing. I’m glad I can finally view my experiences from afar as I parent myself and look after myself in my new life away from her
Thank you Dr R! You are spot on! I always felt that husband of 25 yrs resented how he was treated during childhood. He was middle of three sons , older brother was golden child and could do no wrong and the younger was always the baby. Husband felt “passed over” by parents, now carries over to adulthood. He blames everyone else for his unhappiness, and doesn’t own up to his shortcomings like raging anger , thinks others have an agenda, is judgemental, misinterprets .
He is not wired to provide the “emotional” parenting that kids need . Yes, he feels he needs to compete for my attention for our boys . Younger son suffers from anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation for past 2yrs. My energy has been focused on his mental/physical safety. But now husband is saying he cant feel empathy for son. And complains of all the $ we’ve spent on hospitalization and therapy, private school. He doesn’t realize the struggle son is fighting thru. He brings up divorce. I dont have the strength to deal with him when all he has done is blame others .
Yes! Yes! Yes! If only I knew this 27 years age. This is your most importent video to me ever. Thank you so much!
I am healed now. I am looking forward to the day, when my two grown up children starts their healing proces. If they ask me for advice, I will show them this one, and they will understand everything!
From a very difficult childhood from a divorced home.
This is truly an amazing video!
the more I listen to all those narcissitic people things . I aknowledge that they have been hurt or neglect or whatever... and instead of turning down toward the personne who hurt them they vomit all their rage, sadness, hate , .... toward the ones who love them . >They are not at peace and good chance they never will . It is sad for all the people around them.
Maybe it's some kind of extreme form of self hatred? That they believe they should be treated bad not good. And when people love them, they actually hate it and resent them.
This feels like a custom made video, if only my grown up children would be willing to listen to this…
Thanks for such validating information Dr. Ramani!
I was raised by a mother stumped by not living up to her father's demands.
I cheered and smiled on standby. She needed me.
When I married, I found myself in another relationship with an ultimate vulnerable narcissist (and suspect myself of it, too) who manipulated and controlled me, plus claimed ownership over me "under God."
Our children were often confused by our different personalities. He was very negative and fearful I am (thru programming) ever-searching for a silver lining (otherwise I'll die, I'll lose hope).
The kids and I are on our own now and in therapy. ♡
The wet stinky blanket is a good comparison.
You are not kidding. My children and I have lived it. Fortunately, they have grown up to be very productive members of society. They are pretty well adjusted from my encouraging and showing them a lot of love, but they all wish their had been more available.
I can attest almost all of the things you said. Small snapshots from our family life and now thankfully divorced state. I feel so sorry for my son and I work very hard on undoing the damage his father is causing and at the same time trying not to cause damage myself with the overcompensation. It is damn hard...
This is me too. I've been comparenting for 8 years. My son is 10. My pathetic ex husband has been slowly poisoning my son against me, and I can feel a wedge has formed. Tells him things that kids shouldn't be involved in, including that we were talking to a judge (at age 7), that i am trying to do him harm with ADHD meds (also at 7), too many other things to name. Makes me want to cry. I don't know what else to do.
Yes! I'm married to a vulnerable narcissist and he ruins holidays right on schedule.
Yes, my ex-wife was so toxically envious of others, and it never occurred to me she was also envious of me. Anytime we’d have a holiday party she’d get very bitter and resentful of my daughter coming over (daughter never liked to come over because of her).
The need to CONSTANTLY have to validate them is EXHAUSTING!!!!!
Thank you Dr. Ramani, I finally understand and can put into words my experiences and constant negative cycles of back and forth with my ex-husband and co-parent. Everything you mentioned is 💯 accurate. Grey Rocking Grey Rocking, Grey Rocking, I refuse to be sucked in anymore.
Thank you for bringing up with this segment. I could go on a cleansing rant here talking of red flags and the devaluation experiences with the vulnerable covert narcissistic partner, but Dr. R has summed up the story of my life :( It's extremely triggering, yet validating. Thank you as always 🌟💛
My wet and smelly blanket vulnerable narcissist of an adopted mother died about 7 years ago. She adopted 5 out of her 6 kids and messed them all up pretty good. Thankfully I remember the love of my birth mother, and so that saved me from a lot of heartache that my other adopted siblings went through, due to not having anyone genuinely loving in their childhood. Two scapegoats, two ignored ones, and two golden children. Both golden children became narcissists (this includes her one bio kid). Take a guess which one I was (hint: Golden child turned scapegoat, truth teller forever). 💕💕
I am so grateful for all your work, Dr Ramani, but for this video and subject in particular. We all knew my father, a successful lawyer & politician, was a narcissist but I didn't realise my mother was a vulnerable narcissist. As a young child I became her therapist & cheerleader. By adolescence she was suicidal and "depressed." Before I left for school I would get her dressed and off to work while she wept. I was afraid she would be dead from suicide when I came home which had the added of toxicity of not inviting friends home in case she was dead. I spent my entire life, til she died, worrying about her, rescuing her emotionally while she ignored me, my inner life and ALL my struggles. She would, literally, immediately change the subject when I began to talk about me, lol! I always thought she was just suffering from major depression. But, now I understand the damage she did to me and how she (with the aid of my father) set me up for a LIFETIME (!) of catering to abusive & toxic narcissists. Oh my! I am about to be 60! Although, I am grieving the years I spent with toxic narcissists who didn't deserve me, at least now I understand these patterns. Thank-you, Dr Ramani, for giving me the transformational gift and 20/20 vision about narcissism and how it has impacted me. You are a wonder! You have set me free! #setfree
So much of this hit home for me. I raised four children with a vulnerable narcissist. Money was a huge issue, even when seeking medical attention. I would take my kids if I felt they needed it and face their angry father afterwards. My kids grew up feeling guilty for being sick. I still feel guilt over raising them in such a toxic environment. He also demanded my time and complained when I put my babies needs above him.
I would have left him but financially couldn’t afford it. I also struggled with depression that made me think I couldn’t survive with out my husband.
I spent 13 years trying to fix. Help them feel better. Everyone is against him. No one understands him. Blah blah.
I am gobsmacked. I've been trying to figure out specifically which type of NPD my husband is . . . just 10 minutes into this episode and it's crystal clear.
God I can't imagine my father's level of pain... therapist to his narcissistic mother, narcissistic wife, and children with CPTSD. He could never relax, he had to constantly deal with putting fires at home while being the exhausted breadwinner with his own serious health issues, being hit with everyone's traumas and various states of dysregulation, and the only thing he knew how to do was to keep trying to fix everything. He really tried hard.
I wish he could slow down and realize he doesn't deserve this --- watching how he was treated in his marriage was and is heartbreaking. No human being deserves this.
It doesn't mean I forgive the enabling, lack of dealbreakers, toxic positivity, or his choice to be a flying monkey now, and it doesn’t mean I enable him to avoid his own accountability and growth, but I cannot wait for the day he wakes up and realize he doesn't deserve this shit.
100% ACCURATE! I was having trouble figuring out the type of narcissist that my ex is but I'm now positive he is a vulnerable narcissist. He really didn't fight that hard for custody... it was just too much work for him, since our little one is still only 2.
Listening to you
, made me understand more of muy childhood, my marriage and now my sons actitudes towards me.
Your style is the best
Thank you
Im the only child outta 5 living with Narcissistic father in his early 70s and sane normal mother in her early 60s. Im torn between them two and my own issues in life. There's no way outta this situation for me right now. Im praying everyday for my life to change and get better.
Ohmygosh! My dad totally picked up partners with his sob story about being a single father. Never mind the road he took to get there. He was always looking for the next replacement to discipline the kids so he could be the “fun parent”.
I intentionally looked for a partner that was the opposite of my dad in many ways. Yet here I sit realizing that I fell for another vulnerable narcissist and married him. But he never complained, or was passive aggressive until after we tied the knot. (Only 6 months later!) 🤦♀️ 18 years later….. Indeed to learn to coparent. Thank you for making this video.
living with mine it was always “poor me..my childhood was bad….”. i was so sick of it trying to constantly to talk him into snapping out of it. he was jealous of our kids. while and after leaving him he has gone to extraordinary lengths to get the kids favor by being the best dad out there. so much fun. their best friend. planting seeds to them constantly about me. it’s been really hard getting my children back. always 2 steps forward, 3 back, 1 forward. etc. he bought a house 2 blocks from me. he just won’t ever go away. it’s like i still have to deal with him everyday. “will i ever be free?”.
Seriously, this videos have help me so much. I really appreciate you and your teams Dr. Ramani. Y'all are saving lives.
My dad wasn’t a narcissist like this but my mother treated him like he was. She would always talk about how hard he works and how he’s built all he has without any help like “most people get”, and that’s why we needed to essentially serve him and then get out of his way when he wanted us to leave him alone when he was home. She was always making excuses for his poor behavior and acting like we should be so grateful for all he does for us, especially since his childhood was so bad. 🤦🏼♀️
Oh my... what was she projecting??? Sounds a bit like my parents, some weird codependency-dance AROUND eachother whithout really honestly and safe discussing their needs WHITH eachother or something like that. My mum is a vulnerable mostly covert narc though.
My son is only 4.5 yrs old but my covert narc ex, his father, recently turned the facts that his dad only answered 12/23 days of my daily “ordered calls.” I told him, when I got him back that I called him daily & it wasn’t that I didn’t live him that I barely got to talk to him. I didn’t tell him who’s fault it was. But when my son brought it up with his dad, his dad turned it around in me & blamed it all on me… something my 4.5 year old did not understand, my son told his dad what he wanted Him to hear. Something kids do… he turned it around on me. The narc became the victim & I became the perpetrator. Classic & sad that my 4.5 year old got caught in between & I was put to blame.
I first thought that my father was more of a vulnerable narc. That is certainly how he presented in his coparenting style and in his relationnships with other adults in general. But watching this series makes me realise that he was actually very malignant with his children. He certainly made me feel a lot of pity and guilt growing up, but fear was the dominating emotion for me. And he used the vulnerable facade with other adults to better hide the abuse he was putting us through. When my parents separated, my mother just couldn't believe the memories we told her. She really had convinced herself that she was protecting us by staying. Talk about manipulation and denial!
I could write a PhD thesis of similar stories, you are on point to the tee again
This is registering on so many different levels
Dr. Ramani, you look so fierce with your hair coming in grey and your makeup ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥 thank you for the excellent content
Thank you so much Ramani, you are doing God’s work. Saving so many lives. I thought I was crazy and there was no way out. Kudos
This IS my life… it’s so frustrating and overwhelming.. I find My experience co-parenting with my vulnerable narcissistic parent because I myself have difficulty with empathy/sympathy (I have been diagnosed, also with complex ptsd) but for some reason I have all the empathy and sympathy for my son (but not so much others) so I find it super hard because i struggle empathizing with my ex because he has these meltdowns and I just can’t nurture them.. and I seem cold and harsh which makes them that much more difficult to “deal with” and then I’m to blame for all sorts of other reasons., My child is able to feel all the things he wants with me/and walks on egg shells with my ex husband in the same ways I did. I find it easier just to do everything on my own… good luck to all the other parents out there co parenting in similar situations..
Yep, this is soo true, I’ve been a single -married parent for 9 years now! I stopped falling into his traps. I don’t coddle , I don’t react when he’s having a tantrum. My oldest sees it and he’s only 8! I don’t excuse their dads behavior , but I don’t put him down either. When he’s having a tantrum, we keep doing what we are doing and ignore him. We don’t depend on him to go on outings , we don’t even plan on him coming ( he’ll make it unpleasant anyway.) He will usually fake an illness not to go anyway. Finding the right kind of therapy is very difficult .
OMG I've noticed that I've done/said some of that stuff to my kids 😓 so far I only focused on what he's done wrong.
Apart from healing from the narcisstic relationship and abuse I clearly have to work on my own behaviour especially towards my kids. They deserve so much better from me.
Your telling my story..Everything you said is what I’m living
Spot on!! Co parented with a vulnerable narrcist way before people knew about or or talked about it. He still thinks "if only"
We both grew up poor but he really does think he could win the lottery or pick the right stock or wouldn't have sold XYZ stock. Everybody else had advantages he didn't, inheritances etc
I tried to pacify him for years, pointing out what we did have, 2 intelligence wonderful children, a nice house etc. but of course, like you said, only made him angry. He can't be happy himself or for anyone else, like my nephew who just purchased a very expensive house, I could tell that really stuck a bee in his bonnet. He had to go look it up online!
Everyday I'm learning, thanks to this videos & a great therapist who gets it. The dinner scene was so spot on, brought back memories of those tense dinner times, say or do the wrong thing & the gates of hell would be thrown open.
Parenting with a vulnerable narcissist is very, very, very lonely. This beginning scenario sounds like where I might be someday. Our three kids are all under 5. My husband was an orphan from Russia and adopted into “a family that didn’t love him” so he’s like the poster child victim. He ignores our kids a lot..or yells at them. I wanted to point this out because I find it so ridiculous. He acts like the kids even injure him. Even our 5 month old baby head butts him and pulls his beard so he rarely holds her unless I ask him too. He was on board with me homeschooling but then he cheated on me one of the first weeks I was trying to homeschool 😅 so that shows you how much he think of me/us. The thing that’s got me through is God. I was not a Christian before I met him and now I am & my help comes from the Lord. Thank you so much for making these videos 💗
Out of the 100s of videos and books and resources I have read THIS is the first one - including everyone’s comments to really connect the dots and give a full picture of who I am dealing with. Everything else just comes very close - even though he scored 20 on Dr Rs narc quiz.
My baby my poor baby boy- omg this is genuine SOS
My co-parent spouse would get SO upset if I even looked at them "wrong" when they would cross the line and begin speaking to our child in an abusive tone. I would be accused if undermining their authority and not having their back. The saddest thing... he was channeling his own parents way of communicating and speaking to *his* child in the same manner that *he* despised as a kid.
The underhanded comments about our child's achievements... the passive/aggressive coercive control... this video is sooooo on point. I'd love to see another one focused on adult children and divorce/separation.
The self-righteous, authoritative communication style is disgusting beyond words. I am mourning 30 lost yrs of my life to such a parasite and, exposing my children to a loveless and disrespectful environment. Towards the end of the relationship, when you can't take it anymore, you will be a piece of rag to them. If you think they treated you like crap during the relationship, it gets ten times worse when you want to leave, then you truly see the person that you have given your whole self to. I had no clue at all about narcissism, I lost my passion for life, I have mental and physical illness. I've seen psychologists over the years for depression but not one mentioned that I could be in an emotionally abusive marriage, It was all about building my self-esteem and getting physically active to overcome depression. My advice is to GET OUT asap! 3 steps are; self-education, acceptance and action. Don't waste your life!
Thank you. Succinctly describes my co-parenting experience perfectly in every single way. Hit every nail on the head …. Alienating and passive aggressive. … My mind boggles at their lack of insight.
I'm excited about the coparenting series!
Goddess wise one- bless you- you’re an angel I’ve been praying for thank you thank you thank you
OMG I can so completely relate to all of this..... Thank you, Dr.Ramani.🙏
My wife is a vulnerable narcissist, and she definitely is an abuser. Mostly she uses emotional abuse, but sometimes, once or twice a year happens that her rage is so furious that she physically assaults me. The worst episodes were when I attempted to leave her. She menaced to commit a suicide if I leave her, but never really attempted to commit it. Want to divorce her, but problem is we have a small child born this year. I'm planning to wait at least until our baby will be one year old, and not dependent on breast feeding. And I'm really worried if she wouldn't try to prevent me spending time with our child in future.
Document everything.
There is court to assist u and u seem to be procrastinating leaving...
Thank you for sharing. I am learning so much and I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel
The work you do is very important. I truly appreciate I'm more sane now that I know all this
I never wanted to be seen anywhere with my narc mother; it was like being with an embarrassing child who never learned social skills. I remember many nights I would pray that her and my father would just get a divorce so I could have some peace.
Jesus Christ is SO REAL. AMEN????
Dr- I am battling a panic attack as I type however THANK YOU THANKYOUTJAKUOJ FOR PUTTING SO MANY OF OUR WORDS INTO THOUGHTS. I TRULY HAVE FAITH THAT THIS VERY VIDEO WILL BREAK MY CLOSEST LOVED ONES DENIAL. BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK TOO. AND THE GUILT- bc we understand….we brought that devil HERE. But shit. We need you. WE LOVE YOU, respect you, always wanted to protect you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. To you DR- & to God as well bc I did turn my back & PROVED YOURSELF LORD IN A WAY THAT STILL IS CONTINUING TO MAKE MY JAW DROP.
PLEASE TAKE THIS AS YOUR SIGN.
DO IT. HANDLE SHIT LATER.
GOD TRULY DOES GOT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US 🤍🤍🤍🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I think a much needed conversation is how many if not all picks a child they have a unhealthy fascination with..I notice it tends to be the one that looks like them/ opposite sex to them…My dad would speak badly against my mum and spoil me. We would even watch adult scenes together from when I was six to desensitise me and confide in me waaay too much. He would date women who looked just like me..I ended up dating the same kind of man who was doing the same to his daughter, having her sit literally on his groin all the time. I eventually found inappropriate pictures of her on his phone and then hundreds of child pornography on computer. Narcissists and pedophilia is a conversation that really needs to had as it is usually guised as good parenting with a narcissist.It is very very common and I dont really hear this conversation much 😞
Yes, I think the physical similarity fascination is very common with narc parents. I have a vulnerable narc mother and I also look more like her than my sister. My 'role' in life w
My 'role' in life was always to be a bit of a 'loser' like her. If I wasn't, she would get envious and competitive.
Holy moly its like you know my husband (separated) the separation has been ROUGH and now I know why...
Your analogy around the dinner table really rang true with me. In the year or two before my X left, she would more often than not turn the table into a battlefield at dinner time. I was always the target, quickly my three kids got involved and it was 4 against one. The topic was always about something I wasn’t good enough at, or something I didn’t do. This methodology has continued even after separation, when I have custody of the kids, it’s terrible to hear the things they say (they sound just like their Mum). How shall I deal with this?? James from Queensland Australia
Every word is so accurate, it hurts. If only I had these insights ages ago, before I was 16 years married, 2 years divorced and coparenting with my vulnerable narc. All I can do now is try to move on while our teen bears the brunt of the rages and silent treatments. Thank goodness we have a good therapist on our team.
I like the music at the start of the video;)
Thank you for everything.
Thank you Dr Ramani xx
Being raised by a vulnerable narcissistic mother to then co parent with a separated vulnerable narcissistic father to my children, is exactly what you said... tiring, hard work and may I add, damaging 😪 Your advice & support is always appreciated. Thank you x
This is my life. I'll have to watch this one later on. Thanks Dr Ramani!
Perfect timing. Need this.
I never realized how competitive my parents were with me. I remember hearing "oh, government and big business are dismantling benefits, you'll be lucky to have any when you grow up" as a balance to "we never had the opportunities you had."
I guess I tried to show my own balance by being equally worried/apologetic for each.
OMG I wish I found you earlier narcissistic didn’t always explain my ex’s personality but this vulnerable narcissist is totally him…now to work on helping my two sons deal with being co parented by him…one has Down Syndrome so a little more of a struggle
In my experience, they are just as concerned with their kids achieving and appearing very successful. They just want to delegate all of the parenting that goes into such achievements. And when something goes awry, then they just try to parent by directive. “You should have done this, said that, etc.” They don’t parent in the trenches. They just look from on high and then do the blame game.
😳 - poor anger regulation, lack of genuine empathy, entitlement, grandiosity, need to control, need for their needs to hold the spotlight, need to be emotionally rescued even by children
- Manage to ruin most special moments and occasions
- emotionally competitive (with partners and children)
- assign responsibility to others including kids for their happiness
- oppositional
- resent handing “their” money (withholding agreed-to support), over spend on themselves but - having the funds - choose mostly low quality items for the children
- children feel the pressure to be their cheerleader
It can be more subtle and the narcissistic vulnerability (fragility, envy, passive aggression, etc) can manifest differently. It’s more of a spectrum, so there are some who fall more towards the center (fragility + preening + image crafting rather than outwardly sullen/depressed). Hero-victims.
When the kids would mess up and make mistakes the narcissist, their mother, often would "explain" to them the nature of their mistakes and simply spoil any possibility that the children could grow from there life experiences! This happened during meals or afterwords when the kids were "required" to sit down and listen to her pontificate and explain just how everything was supposed to be or even in some cases how it was when she was growing up.... it was really awful for us, myself and my children to be subjected to this kind of "bully behavior" by their mother! 😱
As a mother I need to hear this. Thank you. I was raised by Narcissists, I have propensity to lean that way, too when I'm unaware: tired, anxious, worried, or sick. ♡
Same situation here squire. Always saying how things were in their day, and she is very strict with them! Which in and of itself isn't so bad, but it's unreasonably strict sometimes. I'm still trying to keep the ship afloat!
Doctor Ramani! Every one of your videos is extraordinary. Well explained, clear, exact. Helping to find the right balance between the mind numbing frustration and anger and the deep shame caused by narcissism. Some of your videos are so spot on that they are too difficult to be heard in one sitting. This was one of them for me. Enlightening and elucidating, giving words to all the craziness i have experienced in my life. But so sad... You are a master at this and i am deeply grateful for the wealth of your knowledge that you share. Thank you!
My dad is a vulnerable narcissist, but perhaps I don't relate with this so much because I knew to just shut up when he started his "poor me" charade and just finish eating and go lock myself in my room. He rarely ever noticed anyway, he'd just pester my mom for the rest of the night.
Wow, this is so accurate and so helpful. Although it’s been years, I finally can put a name to this relationship and get validation for my feelings. Helps me believe in my way even more and know for sure that I should keep taking steps to protect my kids and help them not personalize the narc attitude they need to deal with. Thank you!
I've just left mine and it's been hell. Worse than when we were together
My 18 yr old son has finally chosen to seek counseling. He lives with his father as the easier path even though his father is a vulnerable narc.
Being in a marriage with a person like this literally feels like being in a circus . However running the circus successfully leads to insult , attack and mockery . It’s impossible to live this way . I’ve never heard anyone speak about this until you Dr.Ramani. Thank you for your insight . Please share more about the competitiveness a narcissist feels towards their children and the abusive toll it takes on them. This aspect in our lives feels suffocating and cruel and backwards and it makes me cry . If I feel this way I cannot even imagine how my kids feel in their own skin . Perhaps with some more of your wisdom I can offer my kids a real chance at feeling worthy and unashamed for the truly fantastic little people they really are .
Thank you and bless your ❤️
The final thought, I so needed to hear. I question my reality all the time and wonder if this is narcissism at all
Omg. This happened with my kids and my ex. And still with my kids in college. It's was so tense at dinner when they were growing up. And now as young adult i feel sorry for them. Im glad i dont have to share the table with him.
My relationship exactly. Thank you.