I discovered my mother-in-law was a vulnerable narcissist when my first-born daughter passed away shortly after birth. She had already shown herself to be mean and unstable when she threatened to shoot herself when I was wedding planning and she didn’t get her way. But when she showed up unexpectedly to our daughters funeral (from out-of-state) and became angry we didn’t pay enough attention to her, that was when I realized she truly didn’t love anyone but herself. All of the other problems became clear when I studied narcissistic personality disorder, and saw clearly that she would compare herself to me and others and always “compliment” me by putting herself down, or put me down by comparing me to others. It took the devastating death of my child for me to understand that she couldn’t be reasoned with.
Sincere condolences you had such a deeply troubling revelation at the worst point in life one can possibly imagine. I hope I do not offend by expressing my confidence your beautiful baby is in God's loving arms 🙏
This is why I am afraid to ever date again. They seem like normal people at first. If I hear a victim story it's a big red flag now. Healed people talk about how they are fixing it and how they have healed and how they took responsibility. This is such important knowledge.
I am in the same boat as you, mate. It’s so scary out there. I will always ask a potential date about their experience with therapy. Their reaction is quite telling. If they’re on a healing journey themselves, then I see that as a real potential.
That’s a great point! I’ve never thought about it that way. Hearing how someone is healing is so much more conducive to an actual conversation than listening to someone speak of how victimized they’ve been.
First red flag: You will witness/experience the passive aggressive behavior. They make it harder to leave because they will weaponize your empathy against you. Their "Vulnerability" is actually repressed anger. That was another red flag: anger issues.
Yep, I've learned an early red flag is that weaponization of empathy. They find ways to make you feel guilty really early on. Even if they're "just joking" when you question it, that's a red flag.
First dates: staring alot at me and not speaking/conversing much. Buying expensive gifts, trips and restaurant outings. Testing to see what my limits were: example, saying I’m at the restaurant close by watching soccer. Then when you ask why wouldn’t you invite me, says: you know you’re always invited! The staring was to observe me in order to mimic me and create the perfect character especially made for me. 👺
Agree. I saw my narcissist was so rude and disrespectful with waitress and it was eye opening and awakening. How this saint and perfect person, who is mocking me for being not spiritual enough, can be so angry and arrogant with a waitress?
My experience with vulnerable narcissists is that contempt rolls off them in waves. They can't hide their bitterness and their hate. Listening to their negativity is exhausting.
I witnessed one attempt to light a candle in front of me and perform some kind of prayer to whatever new age deity she worshiped. It was such a joke of a performance! Her need for moral superiority, no matter how over the top, is pretty sad.
@Mary Carroll That's what baffles me! How do they think that! I just want to scream "You are not smart lady, you are an idiot! I can see what you are doing!"
Absolutely. After my curiosity finally got the better of me, I asked why our wall calendar had been marked almost daily for months with "C", "W" OR "CW". He was noting the days it was windy, cloudy or both. The constant negativity and self depreciating remarks had a huge affect on my own neural pathways and I went from a positive person to the opposite. I'm trying so hard to get back an attitude of gratitude but feel I'm failing miserably. 30 years of exposure to a litany of negative comments about virtually everything in the world around us is indeed truly exhausting.
The idea of "not leaving or giving up on someone when they are down" really hits home. I thought I could save him. I thought I could love him enough to change his life and shine a light on him. I ended up losing my friends, family and self worth in the process.
The narcs played the whole time. It’s an awful feeling to realize what you lost for someone that doesn’t matter now because you never mattered to them.
I grew up in a family of vulnerable narcissists, and I did a lot of therapy to get past it. These videos are so helpful because they show me where I've still got traces of narcissism to work through. It's hard to look back through my life and realize that even though I thought I was fine, I was still carrying on the family tradition with a victim mentality and being really self-absorbed. But I'm determined to get every last speck of these traits out of me. Being healthy enough to face the truth makes a big difference.
This is bad ass….this is what i like to call gangster ass real healing!!!! Self reflection and changing our behaviors to free ourselves from the self inflicted prison of childhood trauma….great job!!! Keeeeep Going!!!!❤🎉❤
This comment made me feel a lot better. I come from a family of narcissists where I was the truth-teller, but in learning more about narcissism, I can also see those behaviors in myself at times and it is mortifying- particularly in retrospect. I'd rather be mortified and working on it than just blindly or self-righteously getting away with harm I do not want or intend to force others to experience. I want to break the cycle of trauma and abuse, and stop seeing myself as a victim; I want to take accountability for my part in this. I think that you spend so long telling yourself that survival was enough, that it can become second-nature to lie in order to keep yourself safe and/or in the good standing of people you care about... and you can end up mimicking the narcissistic behaviors you tried more than anything to avoid repeating. It was a devastating realization that I wasn't entirely free from that which I hated so much about my parents. I don't want to be them. I never want another person to feel that way, especially not because of me being entitled or bitter or reactive or whatever it is and not even realizing it. Dr. Ramani speaks so hopelessly about narcissists that I didn't want to admit it to myself that I might be much closer to one than I thought; however, I am determined to change and rid myself of those behaviors. I don't think I was always like this; I think if you have to lie to protect yourself from an extremely early age, you can even hide those flaws you know are there from yourself, because you know you'll be harmed if they're in any way visible to your abusers. They've got to go. I still think and hope I'm the empathetic truth-teller that got me into such deep shit as a kid. I became so enmeshed with my family, it feels like I was angrily defending the person they'd cornered me into being over the course of a lifetime of abuse, lies and all. Fuck that. If I can quit drinking for three years and counting, I can quit them, quit being a victim, help myself, and stop fearing what will happen to me without them, and stop blaming them entirely for shit that actually IS innately my problem- sometimes, I just don't know where mine stop and theirs begin! It can't be worse than this; it can't be worse than losing integral parts of myself and becoming a monster like them. Narcissism is a disease. It metastasizes. I want to stop blaming them and accept I need to address a lot about myself as well.
This is SO validating! They act humble, and like they are so altruistic. But the truth only becomes clear later...after so much manipulation. And it doesn't stop. Even at the end. They still see themselves as the "good" one...and no matter how badly you were treated...its still turned into.."I did so much for you!". Covert narcissists are just so emotionally damaging. Thank you, Dr. Ramini!
Yes, it's amazing how they think they have done so much for us, right? My sibling goes back to my birth and talks about how they're not complaining, but they fed me and changed me and had to work when they were a teenager. Gag. It's disgusting getting cards talking about my birth from a sibling when I'm several decades old!
There is a difference between 1) helping someone who truly needs help in the moment and 2) taking on a “project” to transform someone else’s life or attitudes for them. We cannot change others; they have to want to change and put forth the effort to change themselves, to find better ways of coping and living. “Fixers” need to stop trying to fix others, and instead focus on fixing their own boundaries and seriously slow down in bonding with anyone who they feel drawn to fix.
@@learningenglishthroughtran8540 that sounds more like a narcissist preying upon a weak, vulnerable person, as opposed to someone who truly wants to encourage, support, and help others lovingly and without “keeping score”. You are speaking more of verbal criticism/abuse as “help”, opposed to a non-narcissist falling into a trap with a vulnerable narcissist.
@Mary Carroll careful, your gynocentrism is showing. Instead of complaining on here, what have you done about it? Refer to OP on forcing change. Realize you cannot fix a broken system singlehandedly, that includes the medical system. Either get on board, or get out of the way, your stress is contributing to the health problems.
@Mary Carroll you posted that purely for female validation. You either support your husband, or you don't. This is not a fefail board. How many men just shake their head and keep reading, while the hens cackle. The gig is up.
Narcissist label gets thrown around a lot these days. There are people who actually do need help and fail to launch because of undiagnosed ADHD, anxiety/depressive disorders, codependency, learned helplessness and OCD/religious trauma. These people do not help themselves because they do not know how. They have low self worth and self sabatoge. The sob story is often trauma dumping which is an unhealthy coping mechanism. You must be able to decipher covert narcissism from someone with other types of problems. Also, most people do not take on people as projects, because that type of person is probably people pleasing or looking for validation. The best way to avoid getting sucked in is to offer help in small doses, encourage and then pull back. Reward when they level up and stick to your boundaries. A narcissist will suck you dry but someone who needs help and support will benefit from it.
Because more and more people are looking up too narcs and accidently enabling it so more and more people turn too their self centered egos. I blame the lockdown from covid and lazy people.
Real narcissists do not accept help. It is as simple as that. They see themselves as perfect and they even tell you that they are perfect and you have a problem. If you have ever lived with one, you know it for sure. They destroy you. And it is more than time that the therm narcissist gets out in public. I have no empathy for them anymore.
I'm copying this post and will use it as guidance, for those of us who want to help but not want to be sucked in. I also devised a test - I ask these covert narcs to help me with something, too. Not something they offer, but something I ask that will cost them a little trouble. If the angrily refuse and then start attacking you for asking and insisting - you can compare your ask to their much larger asks and then you got your answer.
I married a vulnerable narcissist. I thought he was a smart safe person who just wasn’t assertive enough to achieve their goals. After 15 years, I didn’t understand what was happening to me, but I knew that living with him was killing me. I was a shell of a person. 5 years later and I’m finally starting to recover.
What you said describes exactly how I felt watching my friend start dating my other (albeit fairly newer) friend. After 2 years she was at the lowest I've ever seen her. To this day she doesn't really get what was happening to her, just like you described. Luckily what snapped her out was him crossing a boundary (a physical one; although not with her, but himself, he tried hitting himself in front of her while driving a car) and she simply got scared enough to wake up from his numbing poison and run. I'm so thankful it was enough, because she was slipping continuously, and she KNEW that, but the numbing just kept going. I was so afraid I'd lose her but was unable to help her. It felt like she was dying.
I'm so sorry. After 15 years divorced, I struck up a new friendship with mine, thinking we had both grown, matured, learned. It started GREAT, felt real, true, etc. Then he asked to get back together, then abruptly discarded me at xmas. Now I"m the scapegoat being gaslighted again. WTF. Why didn't I learn about vulnerable narcissism years ago??!! This is all making so much sense. The defeated vulnerability, the fragile ego, the constant complaining, the all-too-intense connection in the beginning.
Same, but I was married 12 years. But his narcissistic rages were getting worst, scary. Every time he picked up drinking again it got unbearable. I had to put a restraining order on him, but he kept swinging back by the house. I had to flee my home, sneak back to clean it up and rent it out. We’re separated. After I refused to be a resource, he disappeared on to the next resource. I don’t know if I could get a divorce… I feel like it’ll hurt me way more financially, emotionally, spiritually… because I know he’ll use my faith against me to justify himself and to insult my decision to leave him.
Dr Ramani is speaking about my story. I met a person many years ago, who in very beginning was so different- humble and shy, who understood me and respected all my efforts in life, but later made me believe that all my success, everything I accomplished, all my dreams and beliefs are garbage. My education is nothing. My experience is nothing. I felt the worst guilt for myself and everything I do. This person was disgusted by my financial success and in the same time accepted my financial help. I started seeking psychological help because I believed that I’m arrogant, materialistic, horrible person. And it was the best decision- I found out that the problem is not me. And now, after many years of recovery from self-hate, guilt and shame I’m listening Dr Ramani and I’m crying inside of my heart because this wound is still hurting. Thank you doctor Ramani. You are speaking my truth and my story. Thank you.
I can empathise. This particular video resonates with my person story, too, more than any of the others, right down to minute details. Glad to know you have improved. Best wishes.
Exactly my story. I didn’t know he was a narcissist until after I got discarded and started looking at videos on RUclips. He would put down my accomplishment like it was nothing. Mine you I am a physician and I met him in medical school. He didn’t complete medical school and I think he was angry with me for that. I think he was just jealous. It’s not my fault he didn’t finish. These people need help
I bet that for all the contempt and lack of empathy he showed for you, your achievements and efforts, he would nevertheless accept any offer of financial help from you without a moment's hesitation.
The uniqueness of this situation is that for many years I didn’t see “love bombing” phase from the covert narcissist. I thought that I’m the one who is “love-bombing”. I felt that I need to help them emotionally, financially, psychologically - I gave them all my resources. Love bombing from covert narcissist- is their story in very beginning , when they represent themselves as almost saint human, who didn’t succeed in life because of their humbleness. This was the most seductive and exquisite love bombing.
You are right, it feels we are lovebombing them instead because we put so much effert in making them feel better, heal them, reçue them...to the point of exhaustation and heartbreak💔. This is a great comment, thank you❤
You’ should love these type of people that’s the sick thing about a narcissist they steal the lives of real people that go through or have actually experienced that sadness while attempting to remain a good person. Don’t be mad for loving be mad at the narcissist for switching up on u
Early in the relationship I shared that my first husband had devastated me by telling me he was no longer physically attracted to me. After a 25 year marriage to my second husband who is a fragile narcissist, I finally left him. During the divorce, he started crying and said to me, “I’ve never been physically attracted to you.“ They remember for decades and store it up to hurt you. He was crying when he said it. Always playing the victim when covertly he was being most toxic to me.
Had my narc telling me that in the end of the relationship. I laughed it off as he is really overweight. But I would never say that to somebody. They are so cruel.
Ugh. I am so sorry he said that to you, but so glad you saw it for what it was. You’ve also reminded me why I’m so terrified to tell people the bad things I’ve gone through or are going through. I’m sitting here, low-key concerned that I sound like I’m “confessing” my hurts in order to leverage them when in reality, I’m just afraid of them being weaponized against me.
@@michellebaker793 May I suggest you read the book CPTSD by Pete Walker. It gave me so much insight into why I chose a Narcissist in the first place. It sounds crazy but it really is based in childhood trauma. Emotional trauma. Thank you for sharing and I feel a connection to you because I’m not judging you, I’m looking for common connection. You are a beautiful person and you did not deserve any of it and if you would’ve known what was going on you would’ve left. Please give yourself a hug for me.
@@tinnitusisnotmusic6807 this was a really insightful understanding of how he manipulates through crying. After reading your response I gave it a lot of thought and you are absolutely correct! He actually would make himself cry when he was saying things to hurt me the most. Thank you so much for sharing this with me! Give yourself a hug for me!
A rule of thumb I came up with during recovery from a deep but poisonous friendship with one of these people: Grandiose narcissists love-bomb, vulnerable narcissists need-bomb. Maybe oversimplified but it's kept me out of trouble since. Thanks for this vid. Much needed imo
"And then you look up and realize you're doing all the ...work in the relationship." Yup, that sums it up! Anything you ask them about gets scoffed at, treated with contempt.
Exactly - I realized that I was doing all the problem solving, empathizing - while the friend did a lot of nothing except complain without any intention of solving any of her issues. They also offer up very little to you while they expect you to bend over backwards for them - the relationship, whether it's with an ex partner or a friend - it's always unbalanced - always.
@@MissSandyC this is exactly what I went through with my ex-friend. I was putting in all the effort, whilst she did nothing except moan about how terrible her life was (it isn't). I was even expected to provide emotional support when I was having a hard time, like when I had emergency surgery and was in too much pain to move, or on the anniversary of my mum's death. It was all about her 24/7 and I was exhausted
@@phippskat I'm so sorry that you went through all of that - it's VERY draining and leaves us feeling like nothing we do or say even matters. They just aren't there for anyone else even when we have terrible things happen to us - surgery, a death in the family - they minimize that because, in their mind, THEIR issues are paramount even when common sense says otherwise. They are true energy vampires. xoxox
They will lovebomb you to begin with. Nice gifts. Nice dates. Charming. Funny. Affectionate. Compliments. They will tell you that they have strong feelings early on. All of this is fake!! Done to lure you in. They cant love anything or anyone (appart from themselves). I felt there was something off at the start. My gut was screaming at me to leave but i didnt listen. You will see the red flags. But choose to ignore them. When everything goes there way everything is good. But if they’ve had a stressful day at work or something happens to p*** them off they will be moody and misserable. They will play hot and cold. One day they are lovely other days they are cold and distant so you never know where you stand with them. Leaving you feeling confused, hurt and not good enough. Dont ever pull them up on their bad behaviour. If you do they will end the “relationship”. They manipulate and gaslight you into taking their bad behaviour and disrespect. How dare you stand up for yourself! You should bow down to them and be a door mat because they are the best thing since sliced bread and you should be greatful that they chose you! They will blame everything that goes wrong in the relationship on you. They are never to blame. They will never appologize. They will manipulate you into thinking its your fault and you will end up appologizing for your reaction to their bad behaviour. Everything will always be on their terms! You will do whatever they want to do when they want to do it. If its not something they enjoy doing they will not do it. And on the off chance that they will they will be misserable the whole time. They will see you when it suits them. They will never plan things in advance or make future plans. They will never fully commit. If your going through a hard time in life they will never be there to support you. They will avoid everything that involves emotional connection. Dont ever cry in front of them because they will think that your crazy for having feelings. They cant even give to a hug if you were to cry in front of them, they will just look at you blankly. They have no empathy what so ever. They are very selfish and only care about their own needs. Your needs mean nothing to them. They are dead on the inside. No feelings. No emotions. Just an empty soul. They are addicts. They drink too much. They gamble too much. They are stuck in their ways. They will never change. They will lie. They will cheat (mine had been a serial cheater in past relationships and i though that he wouldnt be the same with me. I have no proof that he cheated but from his past its very likely). They will use you. All of this will have a negative effect on your mental health. You will loose so much of yourself with a narcissist. They will drain the life out of you. Save yourself. Love yourself. Leave these toxic human beings. Moreover, I could've gotten hurt from the impact of been cheated on. I'm glad that i got to know ASAP, through METASPYCLUBLLC@GMAIL. COM and I appreciate the content you put out for us .
they dont love themselves either. they have no sense of self. its all a facade there is nothing to love. they live quite miserable lives themselves while making everyone else miserable. they can never form real connection
@@surfreadjumpsleep based on my research, its because of emotional neglect or abuse as a kid, they form a false self to protect their self esteem. That false self is very fragile, insecure, and in turn makes people act in very weird ways. I would highly recommend researching top experts in the field and reading literature on it to both identify and protect yourself.
@@fart5923 very true. My love bomber , which I’ve now found out, was already talking to another woman, whilst still with me. Child abuse from another male, 2 ex wives, and looking back only 4 weeks ago. His eyes are dead inside him and so is his soul. He likes the chase but once caught you are then thrown away like a used toy. I’d been speaking to him several times per day, and would say it’s ok relax, if your too tired at the moment ring later. Oh I’m so lucky to have you 🤢🤢🤢🤢lying A/Ho..
My vulnerable narcissist ex told me “you’re incapable of love because you were never loved as a child” weaponising my childhood experiences against me to explain why I, in their view, was “incapable of loving them”, basically because I wouldn’t take their s*** anymore
i thought i was reading my comment . My ex said the same exact words to me . said i wasn’t capable of love because of my chidhood . Told me there weren’t many like him around . it’s been 3 months . im feeling great now
My last ex was the vulnerable narcissistic. I couldn't believe it when he said he didnt grow up wealthy like me (excuse me?!) and his parents had to scrape by. I knew his mother had been in a nursing home only wealthy people could afford, I saw the big house he grew up in, knew about his trust fund, and he was an only child and both parents had good jobs. I couldn't believe he said that, to me of all people! Amazing. Just amazing. I guess it was a line he was used to using on people not from around here, or he just met.
I've experienced this pseudo-intimacy with my exhusband. Took me years to figure out wtf happened and how I got so bamboozled. Recently I met another covert narcissist and had a chance to observe his scheming and how he created this "intimacy" and if I didnt know any better, I'd fall for it. They are literally the best actors and masters at deceit.
Same. I am sure, in my case, it took so long to realize, because I simply didn't know what intimacy was. No concept. Never had the experience. Our mother flat out rejected us, me and my siblings. Shaming us insistantly for existing (and, God forbid, having needs). How could I know what I don't know?
Not me but a dear friend who is SUCH a giver and helper and doer. She’s been taken in by at least TWO of these people (one her husband’s sister). It doesn’t help she was raised by a malignant narcissist herself. She’s in therapy and learning boundaries. It’s hard, but she has cut them out of her life. I’m so proud of her.
I feel for her. That’s what I’m working on too. It’s such a blow to the sense of whatever self I knew to realize how often I’ve been sucked in by predatory people and left feeling empty and broken. I’m glad she has a friend who gets it. 🙂
Any time you hear “How bad the world has treated me”. It’s a red flag! Run….I have learned the hard way. This is many people’s identity in which they gain attention….
I made the change , when I made the connection that saying narcissists was dating my mother . It was ‘home ‘ ‘familiar ‘ .. once I realised it , I’ve never seen one again. Saying ‘no’ weeds then out in minutes
I’m divorcing a vulnerable narcissist. They are always the victim and nothing is ever their fault. During arguments she would use everything you’ve shared as a weapon, but the minute you mention theirs they play the victim to make you feel bad and say this is why they never open up to people. Whatever she fails to get done becomes my fault because I didn’t help her get them done. Also when they want their way or want to get out of something then they will become emotional and cry as a way to manipulate to get what they wanted. They hold you to a standard as a partner that they can never give you in return. Lastly, they take control over the argument to express their emotions and you never get a turn to express yours. You’re left being upset while they’re already behaving like everything is okay again.
That last point! Oh my god… I would bring up a frustration or upset and he would talk for hours, cut me off if I tried to interject, tell me to stop talking so he could *finally* get his point out and the argument was only ever done when HE decided WE weren’t upset anymore. He would then go on to say how proud he was of us that we could handle our upset so well. That only fostered my willingness to let him dictate what was happening and how I should see our relationship and him. I had 4.5 years with my narc, I left him almost 7 weeks ago. Hardest 7 weeks of my life but every day I watch Dr. Ramani I feel a little more committed because I see him so clearly now ♥️
@@NewNameNaomi God blesses you, Lyndsey! Keep fighting the devil energy/doubt that he programmed in your brain (as did mine!). WE GOT THIS & GOD'S GOT OUR BACKS! ❤️🙏❤️
Every single word in this video applies to the situation I had. I gave him a place to live, lent him money, took him to every single medical examination he needed, any school or office he needed to go, prepared food, and after 8 months, I found myself jobless, sleeping 4 hours a day but still so busy doing his tasks, and he is still unsatisfied and expects me to do more.
"No matter how much empathy, or no matter how many caring ears you offer them, they will forever seem stuck in a victimized place, and can't seem to move forward from that mindset." This is... someone I'm close to in my family right now. I thought she just needed to get things off her chest, but now I'm realizing, after 2 years of listening to her complain, that it will never come off her chest. In fact, I'm beginning to think she likes it this way.
My ex was highly competitive in very subtle ways with me. He pretended to be my ally and on my team, all the while sabotaging my successes. In my opinion, there is no room for competition in intimate relationships. You are either on the same team and working for common goals or you’re not in an intimate relationship at all.
Dr. Ramani is spot on. My vulnerable Narcissistic ex bf was the shy type with a recovering addict backstory. He would often say, he believes he is autistic because he felt the world couldn't understand him and vice versa. He struggled to get a job, and couldn't hold a job because he felt it was beneath him. He opened up to me pretty fast and I felt really admired and loved by him at first. Early in the relationship he couldn't afford his apartment and I let him live with me. It totally drained me, he wouldn't try to get a job and just used me. On top of it all, he would dismiss feedback and validate my emotions, gaslight me and never reassured me that he wasn't speaking to other women romantically. He totally used all my insecurities and my past traumas against me. Two years later I had to evict him because he threaten to grab a knife from my kitchen and kill me. Currently, trying to get a restraining order and then I realized all his backstories were white lies. Our relationship was all based on lies and he manipulated me into believing he was a good, caring, and sensitive person. Coincidentally, he has a "Giving Tree" tattoo, he's the little boy and the whole world is the tree. Vulnerable narcissist are absolutely the worst, any sympathy for them will come back and literally try to kill you.
Your experience is so close to mine that my stomach turned at the thought that your ex is my ex. Every detail. I’m sorry you experienced so much. Thanks for sharing. I feel less alone.
It's devastating to realize that you have been sucked in by a manipulative selfish man child. Not Easy to get away from after commitments are made. Turns out, they live litigation. Just waking up to realizing this urge to rescue is a serious problem. Seeing it in lots of places.
You are not alone in being compassionate. Some will take advantage. But keep an eye out, with the help of Dr. Ramani. Your situation will eventually change for the better. Happy '22!
This perfectly depicts why it took me a decade to acknowledge and ACCEPT what I was truly dealing with.. The "intense humility" is how they get everyone else to believe they are so great and their significant other is the real problem. Takes quite a while observing to really see the face behind all the mask - because it is VERY deceiving
as the same thing as you don't saw how abusive this family behind the curtains..... people will always judge, no matter how kind you are, and it saddens me as unhealed Empath seeing people hate each other and suspicious to people intentions.... i know im one of those rare kind, having dark alters as result of several trauma, but no matter how hard i'll explain, people still gonna judge right? still, it saddens me to know how harsh people this day to the mentally people out there.... Empaths and deep sadness, it might be my identity, until God takes all of me, and facing death right before my eyes
It took me 5 years to leave and almost 1 year to fully understand what I was dealing with. And a part of me still won’t actually believe this is what he truly is. I think I just need more time. Courage to everyone! Be brave.
@@chriswyma145 man, there's many guys out there having mental issues, i saw how bad some musicians dealing with addictions and depression, although they might sound self centered and hating on their song, they just human and they also suffers, cmon man, why would we always judge mentally ill people, they already suffer enough, be kind to them...
@@learningenglishthroughtran8540 yes. you read me in everywords you say, as some guy who like to criticize others for the sake of being morally superior, i hate that honestly..... people do make mistakes, and you can deal of people mistakes and just judge they for their past mistake, you will and eventually make people leave.... is that how people live this day? judge people behind accounts, and try to be morally superior to people? I don't think good people do that way honestly, social media just make everything sucks dude.... yeah, i know those social construct and hierarchy, but again, be kind to people living with bad situations man, kindness make people living in harmony... that's why i kinda hate some of western culture and modernity, about free will and free critics, some of it are dark and into hate speech and death threats, man, people this day are too harsh to something.... like they never believed in kindness and God Grace...
I started a business with a vulnerable narcissist. I wanted to 'unlock her potential' and I felt deep sympathy for her tragic back story. It did feel intimate at the beginning....then the bullshit started. I ended up drained, depressed, and stuck. It's been about a year since I've gone DEEP, severely limited contact (silver lining to COVID), and began to build a healthier life for myself. Vulnerable narcs are incredibly manipulative. Also, the guilt is real. In my early recovery, taking care of myself first instead of them (she was truly confused when she realized that meeting her needs was not my 1st priority), sometimes I still feel like I'm kicking a puppy, but the feeling passes.
And you have been made to, or programmed to feel like that, because looking after you first, is never equivalent to kicking a puppy. Self care is not selfishness, it's your responsibility. It's so hard to reprogram this stuff. It feels counter intuitive, turbo charged.
I am glad you are away from her and that lockdown has given you the opportunity to focus on your own needs and life. I made the mistake a few months ago of not setting clear boundaries and sticking to them. I wanted to help one friend out on a project they got involved with. However I realised that they would complain quietly in the corner to me about problems and concerns they had, but when it came to meetings they said nothing. This is not a Narcissistic person, but someone with low self-esteem who is struggling with their self confidence. I have tried to help, but when I heard the words 'I can't do this without you!' and 'I just need you to be there, you don't need to do anything.' Alarm bells went off in my mind. I may want to help someone until they learn a skill or complete a task that needs multiple hands/ minds to complete, but then I want to step away and get on with my own stuff and life. I have made the mistake of trying to rescue people before who were adults and capable of learning to look after themselves. Like you it drain me so much that I had no enthusiasm and energy for my own life. You have probably helped a lot of other people who really appreciated your help and support, also it was good and kind of you to try to help her. However you have not been born to be someone's slave. Your existence is not about being there to support and enhance their existence and life. Good Luck to you kind Soul!
"Nobody falls in love faster than a narcissist who needs a place to live." He left our 35 year marriage and moved in with a woman he recently met online. Based on his last words to me he left because i was hostile and an angry women.I now recall my subtle lovebombing almost 50 years ago. His last girlfriend was an angry woman (gee, is there a pattern here?) He came across as friendly, naive and vulnerable. I felt like I was offering my friendship to someone who seemed lonely.
I had a narcissist “friend” move into my house and refuse to get a job or pay rent. When I tried to talk to them about how I couldn’t afford to be supporting her, she would cry and talk about how hard life has been to her and how if it weren’t for me she’d be dead. She manipulated me for years with that routine but I finally lost it when she came home with new hair and nails that she had bought on a credit card (AFTER I PAID OFF HER LAST SECRET CARD and she swore she would never ever do that again since I was feeding her and she had no need to be spending money when she had no job) I dumped her shit in plastic bags and moved. She does not know where I live and never will. And I will never rent a room out again. (Makes me think - there’s a housing crisis right now and narcissists kind of destroy the market by traumatising renters into never renting rooms again)
Yes listen to the date who tells you all his prior relationships were " crazy", "needy" or any other vague word, the hint is every past partner has the same label. That is the same label you will get when the Narcissist is done with you!
' Being someone who feels like always helping and ' fixing ' people's problems to help them - can encourage a vunerable narcissist ' - WOW . Absolutely true
Excellently put. My vulnerable adult narc stepson has been having problems for several years, and we've tried so hard to help.... he's now totally ghosted me, citing imaginary instances from his childhood when I supposedly treated him badly. The truth is he refuses help, because what he wants is his parents and grandparents hovering around him, while he plays the victim. My husband is finally getting tired of it, but still accepts too much responsibility for everything that's going on. As for me, I can breathe a sigh of relief now he's finally ghosted me permanently, as it was hard work walking on egg shells all the time.
After escaping a nearly 8yr malignant Narc, I took a year off to heal. The very next relationship I walked into was a vulnerable/Covert Narc. It's been more difficult to recover from this relationship, which was 2yrs long. I'm upset I didn't see any of the normal love bombing signs, even though they weren't flashy and the same. I felt I'd done so much work and research to protect myself from this happening again, only for it to happen again. Trauma on top of more trauma has really set me back.
- take heart - you are doing the best that you can, and that's enough - that's all you need to do - ask God to help you, and if you find yourself starting to get involved with someone, ask them what their goals are in life, what are their values, and what are their interests. then go home and write down your own answers to those questions - if they don't match up, don't get close to that person :)
Don't give up Christine. The vulnerable type is way harder to detect. They seem to be humble, understanding, helpful and altruistic in the beginning. Their fragility make you believe they are different and that they won't ever hurt you. Plus they seem to be open and honest, but only in the first place. The dissapointment is bigger because the reality is far far away from what you've expected. What do we expect from a grandios narcissist? Well, we kind of know or at least feel that he is a liar, a show, a mascerade. We also kind of know he will cheat on us, right? But in the case of the vulnerable counterpart? Well, in my case I really thought he finally is the one I will spend my life with. He made me believe so by saying "wouldn't it be nice, if we could stop searching (for the right one)!?" Wow, those words blew my mind. But then reality hits you hard and you are already trapped in this cognitive dissonance. You find out, it's all fake. The humble, friendly guy you met in the beginning turns out to be a manipulator, an opportunist, a cold-hearted being who's only interest lies in himself. So obviously it's harder to recover from such an encounter, it's simply the bigger fraud!
The love bombing with a vulnerable narc is more like emotional gifts. Sharing a lot, making you care for them and sympathize with them, and the biggest….understanding. Or rather giving you the feeling of understanding. They understand how your sibling abused you emotionally, they understand that you have a past, they understand. But then one day they don’t, and they use all the things you confessed against you to avoid accountability for their actions. They use the “understanding” they gave you in the beginning of the relationship to trap you into understanding their behavior AKA excusing their behavior. Example; “it’s not my fault Im abusive, I grew up mentally I’ll in a family who didn’t understand” or “it’s not my fault I hit you, I am still learning how to be a person , you know I have a history of drug abuse”
This is why it is so important to have strong boundaries. To have a stiff back and not comply with every demand. To be able to say "This far, but not further"
My parents. Absolutely resistant to therapy, change, the hard work of raising their emotional IQ. I was the rescuer child, the emotional regulator, the emotional caregiver, the verbal piss pot for the whole family. I'm ashamed of how long it took me to realize that allowing myself to be emotionally drained by people like that robbed my children of a fully functioning mother. The amazing thing about covert narcissists is that they manage to delude people into thinking that goodness lies in pandering to their pathology rather than giving to those who truly need it.
I feel you - I’m (hopefully) on the verge of moving out again and I’m getting all the guilt trips from both parents that I’ll be leaving them (to resume my own adult life). I’m ashamed too of how I’ve let them affect my mental and physical health as the rescuer/marriage counsellor/comforter/servant
I knew a covert narcissist and their favorite word was "stupid." This was stupid, that was stupid, I'm so stupid, etc. It was only a matter of time before I realized that "stupid"- when applied to themselves- was false humility. When applying the word "stupid" to others, it was a way to elevate themselves above the rest.
My sister, a highly successful professional, to out utter dismay, met up with this guy who is EXACTLY what you described him to be. She went on this rescue mission for him, allwed him to stay in her house, let him use her car (which he smashed the first time he drove it- and instead of being apologetic blames the other guy) writes and edits his emails, his resumes ( while he looks over her shoulder and criticizes her editing!) She has taken on this mission of championing him and his quest thinking that she is lifting up the father of her child. He has finally found a stedy full time job and even BEFORE they had moved in was dropping hints about how the job was beneath him and laying the foundation for her to expect to move again. I find myself in a continuous state of mourning as i watch her being mistreated and twisting herself into a pretzel to accommodate the wasteful useless creature. What is even more gut wrenching is that if we dare say anything she attacks us with viciousness while he slouches back with a smirk on his face. I know this has turned into a novella instead of a comment but once those gates open up it's hard to put the cap back on.
Wasteful useless creature smirking. This describes exactly the man who stepped on my back to lift himself up and now that his mess is fixed for the moment, I am garbage and not worth even common civility. It's amazing how they mow through other people's resources like a locust in a crop.
I briefly dated a vulnerable narcissist. Luckily, I saw the red flags early on. What initially seemed like deep, intimate sharing quickly transformed into me having to listen to endless sad stories from his past. I caught on to this, along with his passive aggressive behavior. When I confronted him about it, he became defensive and started blaming me. He even said that his trust in me was betrayed! I believe your work helped me see these toxic patterns quickly, so I removed this person from my life. Many thanks! Gratitude and appreciation!
The same stories ;; usually made up and from their unverifiable "youth".... aggressively "shared".. over and over and over... at nauseum .... and your fully expected to "hold court"... like your hearing it for the first time..every time;; and if you have say for example ;; ... brain surgery coming up, they will MAYBE acknowledge it MAYBE, , if so ..... with something flippant that doesn't properly acknowledge the seriousness of the victims health issue like" Man that's tuff eh?.. I can imagine... because this one time, I had this really bad headache once ..ect ect... and at LENGTH , in minute detail . As the victim sits there truly confused and wondering "did they just not HEAR me! ? Then you realize that EVERY single topic comes back to THEM. .....and you begin to walk away or even bother voicing your own serious health problems ... then YOU are blamed for not putting up with the verbal barbs and "jokes".and guilted or raged at for not listening intently in awe. it wears thin after awhile even for a victim .
How does vulnerable narcs behave in the beginnig with texting, did he write the first message or initiate contact, did he text alot, did he respond to text fast or slow and one more thing do they use alot of emojis when texting
I’ve known many of these types of narcissists in my life, especially in my family. These narcissists thrive on pity. They love pity because it allows them to get what they want from the people around them. They’re perfectly okay with looking desperate and pathetic, as long as you are giving in to them
I met the covert narcissist 38 yrs ago. He came off as incredibly shy. He was so in tuned to me and the conversations we had. After about 6 months there were red flags that I was no longer a priority. I was being devalued. When I began pulling away he came back “hot and heavy”. This cycle went on and on long after I married him. It took me 3 yrs to understand his personality type and to successfully divorce him.
I think I was in a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist. Almost straight after the first date, I heard his stories explaining how difficult a childhood he'd had, how he was bullied at school and at home. A few months into the relationship, I realised he didn't want help healing from those things. It was like it gave him a sense of feeling special in how uniquely he'd suffered - exactly like Dr Ramani said in this video.
The love bombing I received looked like this: -poor Eeyore, he’s so sad and mopey -a lot of future faking. We’d talk about vacations we wanted to take, the house we wanted to build… when xyz happened (which it never did) -his roommate sucked, his parents sucked, there was always that supervisor that didn’t recognize his expertise, and they sucked too -everyone he’d been with had cheated on him, he decided to trust me anyway and take a leap of faith
@@TwinkTwankTwonk omg yes. All of that too. would also take advantage of minor illnesses/aches and pains and way over exaggerate to gain sympathy. I remember actually being angry that he had caught another cold/kept getting sick
A long time ago I had a best friend who I codependently did too much for. One time I said no and they told me I had "abandoned [them] in their hour of need." But it was always their hour of need. It didn't go both ways. Great video, thank you!
I was a single mom when I met him. I was doing really well and I thought he was such a good guy. He triangulated my relationship with my daughter and made it all about him. I neglected her and it is horrible to admit now. I divorced him and have been focusing on healing my relationship with my adult daughter. She learned from me what dysfunctional marriages look like and she has always attracted narcissist into her life. We’re both divorced and focusing on her children and loving them now and I’m grateful.
I felt that something was wrong with him since the very beginning. Had no idea about narcissism back then, but the red flags were all over, so I kept my distance...however he managed to mess with my head even during the short time I actually spent with him. It can be really intoxicating when someone presents himself as everything you ever wanted but in this passive way, as if asking you to be his hero. I craved emotional connection and he mirrored me with such an intensity that a couple of days spent together were enough for me to assume that this person could be my soulmate if only he were healed. The problem was....he never wanted to heal...I felt like he was indulging himself in the past traumas.
My ex was literally the snake from the following story: Girl and the Snake A young girl walking along a mountain path to her grandmother's house heard a rustle at her feet. Looking down, she saw a snake, but before she could react, the snake spoke to her. "I am about to die," he said. "It's too cold for me up here, and I am freezing. There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving. Please put me under your coat and take me with you." "No," the girl replied. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. And if I pick you up, you will bite me and your bite is poisonous." "No, no," the snake said. "If you help me, you will be my best friend. I will treat you differently." The young girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over. She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and she had to admit he was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen. Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you. All living things deserve to be treated with kindness." She then reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and continued toward her grandmother's house. Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side. The snake had bitten her! "How could you do this to me?" she cried. "You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!" "You knew what I was when you picked me up," he hissed as he slithered away. I saw all the bad things but he he seemed so eager to be better than from where he came. Now he has slithered off to bite another
This is the dynamic between my mother and father. She’s dedicated her entire life to helping him and pleasing him and it’s never enough. She’s taken his side when I went no contact after his final straw insane behavior against my husband, so now I have zero contact with my family. He isolated her from her family, I’m an only child. So now it is the two of them all alone. And they are in late 70s and I am the villain. It is so supremely sad.
You are not the only orphan on here for sure, I have two living siblings that are worthless creatures and parents are gone now. Mom was a trip and dad let her do it. In the end you are so much better off now, Don't be sad, you had no choice and nothing you could fix or do about it.
I am sorry for that, I think it is really though and sad once you probably love them even to they are not able to love you back. I couldn't do zero contact, it was so hard and I decide to do gray rock.
I knew something was off as soon as I moved out with him. He was sullen, distant, sad. He felt used, abused, taken for granted. "Nice guys finish last" he said. 16 years later we were still not achieving the dream I thought we had dreamed together. I had achieved everything I had set out for. I had a career, a child , a home, stability , a social life. He was recluse, closed off, unapproachable, angry and arrogant. He hadn't achieved anything. He had lost all his friends, he was without a job, we didnt see his family, we barely spoke. And somehow, it wasn't his fault, and he couldn't be happy. He wasn't appreciated. A retail job, or anything that paid less than his worth was beneath him. His friends had crossed him somehow. His family, he avoided. My family he fought with and belittled behind their back and did so as if he was doing me some kind of favour. As if he was sticking up for me. Every argument about unfinished projects, failure to do small tasks, about money, trips or events turned into a poor me session that I was expected to heal him from. When I stopped participating in consoling him and asked him to seek professional help I was called cold. He would push my buttons, twist my words until I had emotional outbursts and became defensive. He went there all the time. So I felt like I was the bad guy and he could act beaten and excuse himself from responsibilities, because he was too sad, too upset. It wasn't until I felt ashamed of my own behaviour that I finally told him to leave and meant it.
Every time I see one of Dr Ramani's videos, I'm sad I didn't find her 10 years ago. She could have saved me the biggest pain and heartbreak of my life. My ex was exactly like this and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. His lack of a materialistic lifestyle was actually a cover for his inability to even balance a checkbook, much less have any kind of financial responsibility. It quickly turned into a way to control everything I did, from how long I left the lights on, how many days a week I would do laundry or vacuum...even down to what kind of cheese or bread I bought. It was a horrible time in my life when it ended, but I'm also grateful for the lessons.
I am speechless. This is the story of my last relationship. And it is exactly because it feels like true intimacy that this kind of love bombing is not suspect at all. He did care at the beginning, he listened, he made an effort for me and anticipated my needs. It did not feel too good to be true - it felt exactly how a normal relationship should. Until the mask fell off, and my head started spinning. And of course, you are a "rescuer" if you were raised in a narcissistic family system with vulnerable narcissists who made you responsible for their feelings and other aspects of their lives. Thus, this is the only way your system can understand connecting to anybody - by you attending to their needs, and abandoning yours.
My son is a rescuer and this is how he got sucked into the relationship he's in now. The other love bomb technique she used was her constant need for contact. She would face time with him every waking moment that they couldn't be together. She is the pure definition of a vulnerable narcissist.
They can be quite seductive!! That’s how a former friend of mine lost her father to divorce! He, a minister and rescuer, got seduced and eventually had an affair by a vulnerable narcissist who was going through “trauma”. It’s the most vicious kind because he would defend his behavior and make his wife feel guilty in the name of “rescuing” this poor soul…
I started going to Therapy this year because of their relationship. I have been rescuing my son his entire life and recognize that I am a big part why he fell into her trap. The worst part is that she has isolated him from all of his friends, mostly because they don't want to be around her. She actually told him to cut off contact with me because I'm the toxic one. I'm trying to moved toward indifference now but it's very hard.
My husband goes all blamey if I did not respond to his messages or forget my cell at home 🙄 I am supposed to take all his calls, read all his messages and respond to them ASAP. He is a skillful manipulator. "I am making you tea! Which one do you want?" - while I am shopping, going for a walk or exercise outside. Seems like love, right? Or rather his way of controlling me. It took me years to recognize the difference.
My mother is a vulnerable narcissist, so I was programmed from birth. I never really chose my friends. They always chose me, until I woke up. At the end of all that, it's so painful to see, all your longest friendships were actually competitions. 😔 It's taken much work, but I'm free to be who I was born to be now. I've released 60lbs from my physical body. I'm able to trust myself to honor my boundaries. I trust myself to never be anyone's fuel again. I love you all! Never ever quit before the miracles! Your next breakthrough could be today!
Why do you say your early friendships turned out to actually be competitions?I suspect my mother displays a few more vulnerable narcissist traits than I'd like, and I've been working to identify/correct competitive trends in my early friendships... Definitely would appreciate your thoughts.
@@gumbo45100 my mother devalued me to the point that I was a leaf blowing in the wind, looking for love. Problem is, my definition of love was wrong because my mother modeled it wrong. She abused me in every way and called it love. Of course I looked for that love/hate going forward. I'm 45 now. I now know what she is and no longer befriend people like her. I now recoil from these demons. Once I allowed myself to see the truth, that most of my friends were secretly hating me and competing with me, just like she always did. I don't enjoy competing like that. I prefer the basketball court, lol. But I'm so beyond tired of competing in these competitions that I never signed up for, and am unaware I'm participating in, until I accidentally win and some"friend" gets narcissistic injury.... hope that made sense.
As someone who just realized at 37 that his mother was a convert narcissist all along, but never wanted to see it before, your story resonates with me and to hear you are so far down the road of self love recovery made my day. Thanks for sharing, all the best, and I love you too.
@@humanityhealthyself4430 It's like a horror movie. You escape the bad upbringing into what you think is a safe new chosen family, only to discover they're soul-suckers too! I held onto the last narc friend for far too long, in part because I hated what it would "say about me" if I had no lifelong friends anymore and was truly alone in the world. Turns out it says I love myself and am worth standing up for! ❤🤩 You're so right: *"Never ever quit before the miracles!"* 🌈🌿😃💐❤🍀
This is my story! Help with a job, give them a place to stay, give them transportation until the big personality reveal a year later. Thank you Dr Ramani for helping this rescuer understand what happened, how to avoid a future trap - and do some personal work as well.
This is exactly it!! From day one. I could only see the potential in him. I thought he might grow out of it at some point and finally see the world wasn’t so bad. It went from one tragedy to the next for 12 years so I never felt like it was the right time to speak up for myself. Until he finally cheated and left. I feel like this is so close to bpd it’s hard to tell the difference. You literally feel guilty for wanting to leave this fragile child like person. At the end you learn they are not as vulnerable as you think. And they will certainly have 0 empathy for you.
I am so glad you mentioned the bpd confusion. I am currently trying to heal from a hurtful break-up. Spending time trying to learn from what harm I caused/improve imperfections and also trying to identify the red-flags, mistreatment I also conveniently ignored in the name of “love”. I feel like there was some covert mental abuse and narcissism in my last relationship but then I start to wonder if I am just playing the victim. It’s gotten messy because I also do identify with the symptoms of bpd. It can be so difficult to distinguish the two. When it comes to mental health it seems virtually impossible to decipher what came first the chicken or the egg. I do think as a result it can be a little of both. Practicing intuition and listening versus being overwhelmed by those feelings helps make the line a tad bit clearer. Thanks for your comment.
@@megoriold4166 Mine gave me a book about bpd, indicating I could have it. Now two years and one therapy after I can tell you, that he was the one oscillating between covert narcissm and bpd. Both disorders have quite a few similiarities. He kind of transferred it to me by the time while I was actually trapped in a ptsd. But I was not never diagnosed with bpd! So the relationship to such a person make you feel like having bpd. Maybe you also act the way, but it's induced to you. This was at least my own experience. What you truly get from those kind of relationships is a ptsd.
Yes all of the tragedies!! It took me a year and a half to realize those tragedies were being milked to keep me quiet about and excuse their bad behavior. That is, if the tragedies all happened. I'm still not sure. It took another year of me calling them out on inconsistencies and getting all the rage, victim playing, blame shifting and gaslighting for the blinders to come off, and another year after that for me to end the relationship. I was trying to be thoughtful and allow them to have as much potential of landing on their feet as possible. They repaid me by trying to destroy my reputation. They didn't succeed. But I do worry that I will be more skeptical of people who need my empathy as a result of this experience.
Its called the narcissistic pityplay, I was in the same mess for 4 years before I went fully no contact. Expect them to come back and try to hoover years later aswell. Narcissism and BPD is *very* similar so you made a good observation there, we get good at these things from self educating online.
With a grandiose narcissist, they keep you wanting and coming back for more….you can’t get enough. With the vulnerable narcissist, you feel drained and exhausted, and can’t wait to leave them to recharge your soul. You literally feel like you’ve had the life sucked out of you, but keep coming back to help them because of your empathy.
I had never heard of a covert "vulnerable" narcissist until I had been divorced from my ex-husband for 2 years. I was married to him for 40 years and just thought he was immature and stupid! I only knew about the overt type of narcissist, and he definitely wasn't that. He was always too humble. He was always such a penny pincher. He was afraid of money and would say things like, "Why do we have to buy birthday presents for the kids?", or, "Why do we have to buy Christmas presents for the kids?". He would always take my gifts back to get the money. I hardly ever got anything from him, and if I did, it would be so random and thoughtless. He worked 7 days a week at his business, and we barely ever made ends meet. He would let the bills pile up and wouldn't pay them until the utilities were going to be shut off, or something just as drastic. We had 5 children together, but I had to be father and mother to them. He just wanted to be their "friend". My kids, as they got older and where tired of him always telling them "No!" for anything and everything, would say that he was so tight, you couldn't run a credit card through his butt cheeks! I eventually became the breadwinner while he played tennis every day with a group of old retired guys, ones he knew he would look good playing against because he was much younger than them. He played a lot of mind games over the years. I thought this to be due to immaturity. I divorced him because I was tired of his games and him punishing me if I didn't respond the way he had planned, and he ALWAYS had a plan. He would say " If you would have sex with me every day, I would be happy!" I realized that he didn't care about my happiness, only his own. He would say things to belittle me. Early in our marriage, after giving birth to two children back-to-back 1 year apart, he told me I was fat! I only weighed 130lbs at the time, and I'm 5'-7" tall!! I'd put a total of10lbs on after my pregnancies and he was disgusted by me. I was only 23 at the time. I can now clearly see his type of "love bombing" because we would talk long into the night, laugh, feel wonderful, and then I'd realize that he was just mining me. He had very little personality of his own, but he seemed to blossom because as he took from me, and I began to lose myself esteem and my sense of myself, he seemed to become more friendly with people and enjoyed their attention. It was like we'd traded personalities. I lost my power and he seemed to gain power. It was very strange. In my mid 40's I seemed to have made the decision that I could say and do whatever I pleased, and I began to put it into action. He hated that version of me! By the time I hit 60, I was done! I'd put all of my energy into our marriage and family, and he had put in enough effort to pretend that it was meaningful. Being the only person in your marriage sucked but coming to that realization was so freeing! So, I divorced him and haven't looked back. I just feel sorry for his next victim. When the kids mention that he has a new victim, I always think to myself, "BUYER BEWARE!" It's now 5 years later and I'm doing great, and my children are doing great. They hardly want anything to do with him by their own choices. His visits are always "mercy" visits because it's always about something or someone else and not them. Their ages are 25 to 43, so the divorce happened when they were all adults. Thank you for listening. FREEDOM FEELS GOOD!!!
"Yet I had not forgotten his faults…He was proud, sardonic, harsh to inferiority of every description…He was moody, too…But I believe that his moodiness, his harshness, and his former faults of morality…had their source in some cruel cross of fate. I believed he was naturally a man of better tendencies…I thought there were excellent materials in him, though, for the present, they hung together somewhat spoiled and tangled." Jane Eyre 👀
I dated a guy who texted me incessantly every day and night. His ex wife abused him for 6 years, all his ex are psychos or cheaters. His family is so poor, his cat died, his mom died, his brothers are abusers, his boss picked on him, he is on depression med, has anxiety disorder, has to drink a lot to feel better. My heart sunk when I heard his stories. I helped him out in any way I could. After 6 months, he moved far away with his “female best friend” and won’t allow me to visit him. This video answered all my questions and solved the puzzles! Thank you Dr. Ramani! ❤️
This is literally how every relationship has started for me, and I can say firsthand that these type of relationships are definitely not easy to walk away from.
After a 20 year friendship with a vulnerable narcissist and the 2 years of recovering from the abuse, one thing i see so clearly is how they manipulated the narrative of any conflict to look like the victim. This happened right off the bat as 11 year old's. I didn't want to be her friend but then "those girls stopped being my friends so i have no one to come to my bday party" so i went, it was how she got me to hang out with her the first time. This repeated over and over in a million different ways and it wasn't until i had serious crisis of my own that i saw these problems as fake. I had a family death, traumatic head injury and amputation in a week but somehow the biggest crisis was a guy she wanted to date that wasn't treating her right? Life sure is strange.
At 11 she was already a narc? How horrible and sad that this personality disorder can set in so early in children… I am recovering from my toxic relationship - and I am seeing his imprint on my young kids, hoping to mitigate some of these damaging effects so that they don‘t grow up with narcissism/codependency.
A vulnerable narcissist (i.e. perpetual victim) often has an entire staff of rescuers. These rescuers may not necessarily know about each other. They think they are the only person helping the narc. Meanwhile, the narc rotates the rescuers who work in shifts. One takes care of the kids, another one gives the narc a ride, a third one fixes the house. The list of chores and needs is endless! While the rescuers labor, the narc may get her nails done, go to a wedding party, and never, ever reveal she actually has a good chunk of money hidden away.
After learning with you I realized that I'm the fixer, the wanting to make people feel better, rescue them, celebrate them so I fall for the vulnerable narcissists easily. After learning with you, I can catch myself in this pattern and not fall for it. I'm still working on it though. Being aware of our vulnerabilities is crucial to avoid getting into a narcissistic relationship. They behave exactly as you describe it, everything. Also, everytime I hear the "stupid" word is a red flag💔 Thank you Dr. Ramani, this is very much helpful💖💖💖
The vulnerable narc I last had a relationship with 'made me feel' very special. The relationship felt deep and meaningful. I truly thought I'd met a soul mate. I thought 'this guy actually sees me, knows me'. Of course it didn't last long. He went from apparently seeing me to making me feel invisible.🙄 I then spent the rest of the time trying to get him to see me again until I decided it was toxic and ended it. I gave him everything I had, physically and emotionally (I am a rescuer 🤦♀️) and he gave nothing back. He still thinks what we had was special. He's in a fantasy world..!
This is my experience. I do see my father has more of the contempt and negativity with entitlement to be served as most people are taking away from the video. But your description is my experience with my not really BF. I'm taken but he was always single. I think the difference between authenticity is the durability of a trait. If you cannot remain stable it was a shallow mirage. Fantasy is a huge coping mechanism for a monster of insecurity lurking in their system. It's been said, difference between whether an abused or neglected child becomes a narcissist or a codependent is their resilience. The more resilient become codependent but the more fragile become narcissistic. Now, that's only in the cases of dysfunction but it still seems accurate.
Same happened to me. I thought I had met the most loving, kind, romantic guy ever. The minute he got comfortable in the relationship ( took one year for me to present him to my children), the put downs started.
Yes! In the love bombing stage they make you feel so unique because they “feel seen finally” but after a while the neglect sets in you are basically invisible and when you bring up your concerns, you’re a nag like everyone else ruining their existence. So spot on.
I was lonely & "advertised myself" (created a profile) on a dating site... BIG MISTAKE! He said he was a quiet person & liked to listen... He acted nerdy - so I thought he was an intelligent introvert. I swear he was taking notes for later exploitation, manipulation & trauma bonding/grooming! It was my 1st adult experience with a (covert) NARCISSIST & I AM ON A MISSION to be sure it is my last! Empaths deserve SO MUCH MORE than the breadcrumbing of ANY NARCISSIST! WE DESERVE RECIPROCITY in our relationships with others. I didn't know my worth going into this relationship, but learned WHO I AM/"WHAT I BRING" TO A RELATIONSHIP dearly/THE HARD WAY coming out of it! Thank you God! Thank you Jesus! ❤️🙏❤️
Reciprocity is my relationship litmus test. In more naive days, I believed it was "keeping score," but now I realize it works well to establish healthy boundaries for relationships and assures I don't get too far downstream before realizing it's unhealthy
Lorraine, it sounds like I had a similar experience. I too am thankful for the lessons and I'm much more secure in myself and setting boundaries after working through all the damage he caused.
Sounds like an experience I had. Online dating and all. I’m so sorry that happened to you. What’s really difficult is no one around you can truly understand what you are going through unless it’s happened to them. But the positive here is we can let it make us better people and learn from it.
I've fallen way too many times to love bombing narcs. It's late in life but it will never happen again thanks to you, Dr. Ramani. I really don't know what I'd do without you. I can't thank you enough. I wish I could travel back in time 27 years ago and play THIS video to myself. You just described the beginning of my odyssey to a T.
Yes, not a romantic relationship but definitely relate to this. They were never satisfied and definitely a one way street, even when I experienced a tragedy, they made it all about them. I stepped away years ago, life is calm, easy and energizing😊 thankyou so much for being so brilliant x
“When I experienced tragedy, they made it about them.” My brother took his life, and I dropped to the garage floor with the news. My narc-simply walked around me and unloaded groceries. And he was a pastor-where a death in the congregation trumped everything!
On my way home after finding my dad deceased in his home. My soon to be but not soon enough Full Fledged Covert ex husband continued to dose off when I was telling him the details of that life changing moment but not of course before saying "if your dad had any guns I would like to have one" 😳 My husband is a gun enthusiast. But apparently that was more important than comforting me.
Vurnerably narcissistic people: 1. Guilt-light. Gaslighting you into feeling guilty for something that never happened. 2. 'Never' have money, whenever it suits them. Going to the pub with them, means you're paying. 3. Triangulate, by letting you know how much nicer someone else is, or by complaining to their friends about how you wouldn't cook for them, so now they're starving. 4. Might punish you, by suddenly doing worse whenever you're trying to lay down some kind of boundary with them. Are you trying to look for work? Now they're suddenly in a lot of anguish of some sort. 5. Might shun conventional medicine like the plauge, because if they could get on some kind of anti-depressant medication, their suffering wouldn't be unique. 6. They tend to give a lot of bad advice, or to play into your own insecurities, by 'sharing' their own experience. 'I wouldn't try losing weight if I were you, I've tried for fifteen years, and if I can't, then it's definitely too hard for you.' 7. You can definitely be too intelligent, too good looking, or too good at something for your own best. According to them. Delivered a pretty damn good speech? It caused them to get so anxious they ended up vomiting. 8. They might have the worst hygiene ever, but make you feel incredibly guilty for not wanting to have sex with them because of it. 9. They can break stuff, as a way of letting people know that they're very unhappy that they can't have everything their way. 10. Are two-faced. They can be trying to gain your trust, only to fish for blackmail material to use against you. 11. They love to gossip. Especially about how terrible people are being to them. They might even go to the lengths of filing slanderous police reports. 12. They can 'brag' about how fucked up they are. Getting the drunkest/highest is a competition. You're sad, well now let's 'cheer you up' (project their substance use disorder onto you). 13. Accuse other people of faking their disability/chronic illness/mental health problems. 14. If one of their friends doesn't seem to be doing well, they can talk trash about them to other people, and accuse them of just doing it for attention. 15. They're complaining about how broke they are, but it's always due to their own bad decisions. They're poor, becasue they spent all of their money on a shopping spree/going to the pub. 16. They get incredibly envious of everyone who's doing better than them. They might even try to convince other people that this person isn't as talented as people think they are. 17. They are the only ones with good taste. Do you like the wrong band/video game/TV-series? You're a bad person/they now need to re-educate you. 18. They feel victimised by misunderstandings. It's always your fault, whenever they misinterpret something, or just assume something to be the case. 19. They are incredibly easy to offend, and quite offensive, at the same time. They play it tough, but they definitely can't take it. Whatever they say and do is just a joke, but you might as well make them cry for 'bullying' them. 20. They blame others for their own problems. You're the reason why I'm feeling like shit now.
This is very accurate to my situation. I am a rescuer and a helper type. She has had a rough childhood in which she ties her current state of anxiety and use of anxiety medication to. I felt deeply connected and compassion for her was at the highest level. During the devaluation phase I made every excuse in support of her and tried to explain away certain behaviors as related to her past. Even though I noticed several instances of gaslighting I only was aware of grandiose narcissism so I ruled her out as a narcissist. Boy was I wrong because in the Discard phase I’m now legally fighting for my life. Things I shared have been weaponized. Small events have been blown way out of proportion and some completely fabricated. The smear campaign is unreal. I’m devastated, I’m confused but I never could have imagined that as much attention love and catering as I’ve shown her, she could turn as vicious as she has just because I caught HER cheating. I was even willing to except it and work it out and signed up for a relationship coach. Now I’m aware of Vulnerable narcissism. I’m still in pain but at least aware. Thank you Dr. Ramani. Your videos and others are helping me understand who I was with for the last 3 years. Now I have to heal.
My ex-husband. I adored him for his vulnerability and undercurrent strength and uniqueness . Took many painful years to see that his vulnerability was mainly resentment and his seemingly inner treasure was shallow and treacherous and altogether a construction of lies.
I was engaged to who I think is a vulnerable narcissist… or BPD ill never know. Very sensitive and emotional. Picks at skin..reported stress eating. Super helpful suggestion for all of us: create a voice memo upon interaction after a date. I created one intuitively after our first date so I can analyze him logically without being emotional. In my memo I noted his insecure walk, complaining about how hard he works and everyone abuses his hard work, and how his family adores his older brother and he’s basically ignored. I think I felt deep sympathy for him and went on to say yes (even though it was too fast for me and HE KNEW and still refused to slow down for me even though I had told him I had a tough Dad). MY LESSON LEARNED: make a voice memo after a date. assess my intuition. then proceed. Also my lovely empathetic folks my sister shared: “find a partner NOT a project” 💖
I still wonder that myself, I don't know what he is, but it doesn't matter, what matters is what I learned from this relationship. and what NOT to do in future relationships.
This is brilliant. A lot of African-American women are experiencing this. The failure to launch prevalent among our counterparts is leading to a lot of jealousy, resentment and violence against women. The femicide rates among us is extremely high, with one of us being killed every 5-6 hours in a day.
My ex was a VN. All his exes were crazy, his parents loved his brother more, rich people were to blame, his boss wanted to get him fired, the teachers hated him, everyone bullied him… etc etc and so on. So basically the whole world was against him or so he loved to declare.
Best decision you can make as an empath: NEVER ever again save, rescue, give free or discounted resources like a place to live, a car, phone, etc. It’s is NOT your job to BABYSIT emotionally or financially another capable adult. If an adult can’t take care of their basic needs, walk away. Let them struggle. Let them figure it out. Don’t rob them of the opportunity to grow the F up and get their own life together. Get your own life together and let others do the same for theirs. Save your own self. That’s enough of a project.
@@heartspacerelaxations6924 I would not. I learned the hard way. A yr after a discard an ex friend reached out to me saying she was suicidal. She needed a place to stay. It was intolerable and told her she had to leave after 2 months. I think she played up being suicidal to get free room and board. She wanted to stay for 6 months. Ya no. It was really stupid for me to take in a supposedly suicidal ex friend.
I was in a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist for a year and a half. it was the worst time in my life; everything Dr. Ramani said here is spot on. I'm still trying to work out my trauma from that relationship. I do appreciate this video because it is validating and lets me know I'm not crazy and not alone.
Love-bombing : yes, the heart-rending backstory : abusive, unsupportive parents, deprived of material goods and money, studying hard to get to university in order to escape childhood home and on and on and on until eventually YOU become part of their awful drama that they will go on to complain about to someone else!
How is that lovebombing? There's nothing loving going on here. If if can be used as a form to pull your heart strings to feel sorry for them, possible but there's no way they are seducing you or loving you. People share their hard life stories on tv, RUclips, that's even a way to get donations but they are not love bombing. Dr. Ramani is completely off in this one. Many of the so called empaths have the same abuse and deprivation backstory. We see people here on comments sharing their sobbing stories of being in narcissistic abusive relationships and this is not the only channel they must be doing it. I had this exactly same backstory and many times i have to talk about it when i don't want because many people assume everyone had same opportunities, had loving parents, paid school and allowance to thrive. As the saying goes "it's easy to hit a home run when you start from the third base". Those are the same people who donate to the starving children in Yemen but won't give a can of baby formula for their single mother neighbor "because they had opportunities and did bad choices". Actually donating to Yemen makes you feel good about yourself and you can even brag about it to others but not you won't even look to the homeless person you see begging everyday. In this example I see the "rescuer" as the narcissist person because they were the ones approaching the person who was indulging in their own misery and decided that person would give them unconditional attention. Rescuer syndrome is pretty much npd grandiose, "I'm the only one who can save this person and they will have eternal gratitude for me and love me".
*"They will share that they're really good at doing something, that they're expert at something, or they're experienced with doing this or doing that, but that they've never had any success, or never really made a lot of money, or never managed to finish school, or never pursued a certain career".* Oh. My. God. All of this. Literally every single thing of these. You just described my ex. I was always confused about him, how he had certain traits I had seen in other narcissists that had previously been in my life, but he didn't really seem to tick all the boxes of narcissism at the same time. This was the piece I was missing, and all the pieces seem to fall into place now. Thank you so much for your videos, Dr. Ramani, you are a blessing to all of us survivors of narcissistic abuse
I'm so glad people are being educated about this. It took me soooo long to catch on, and I'm by no means a stupid person. I was quite literally addicted to the relationship, mostly because of the intensity of the "psedu-intimacy" that I thought was real. It all started at one of the most vulnerable moments in my life, so the trauma-bonding was also severe. What I still can't wrap my head around is this: Are all of these behaviors fully conscious acts of malicious intent strategically woven together for a devious and self-serving purpose? Or are these individuals so supremely self-absorbed and genuinely entitled (in a way that I just can't comprehend) that they lack the ability to see damage they do?
I’m a vulnerable narcissist and I’m just unsure of myself and don’t know what I want. I been in a string of relationships since I was 14, 5 different relationships now 27. I’ve always felt like I had great potential but failed to achieve much after many many failures. Life HAS never been fair to me. I’m good at a few things and kind of just gave up. I’m starting all over again after my last failed relationship which I ruined. I have so much humility and I wear my heart on my sleeves, I came from a bad background but try not to talk about it too often. At the time with my previous relationship I honestly just felt on auto pilot. I’m mostly just depressed, never had time to figure myself out so here goes nothing.
@@igorpisarev1898 I believe you. I know that everyone deserves to be loved the way they are. And this might sound hard to believe, but your heart is good. If you ever need someone to talk to, I'm always here. If not, that's okay too. 💛
Hi Dr. Ramani, Thank you for caring so much to teach us. Every man I was ever with was no good. Now I think everyone is this way. I am teaching myself to move on alone.
I am seriously addicted to your content!! Thank you!!my ex is a Vulnerable Narcissist.... you honestly hit the nail on the head... I felt like the one who will 'stand by him' and not abandon him....I am quite independent financially so I just got a sense that it was becoming a 'problem', he was getting resentful about this but never said anything directly....he devalued my career and when discarded he once told me 'you are too independent to feel hurt'.... what an odd thing to say to someone. That relationship cut me deep.... 11 months on Im still healing.... the love bombing phase was so intense, the way he opened up about what 'struggles' he faced in the past....I honestly thought it was real.....
You’re not alone!!! My BF does this to me. I just have to cut ties with him, but not tell him, just do it. And to think, I felt I was the only person dealing with someone like this.
It took 5 years for relationship to end, I had no idea what I was in until I found Dr. Ramani's videos. It took losing my brother to find out that the person I was dating could not be there for me, always being the solid foundation, being supporting, the cook, the cleaner, the emotional validator, and when it finally came to my turn to be the one who needed the support I got nothing, and the feeling of dread set in that I was completely alone, that this person I loved so deeply, it was all a lie, but also a lie I continued to tell myself. After a year of hard emotional work, and healing, Ive met a new person, someone with empathy and kindness, and new layers are beginning to arise, it feels unusual to receive love, this is just new programming that needs to be learned on my part. Anyone going through the grief of a narcissistic relationship ending, it may feel awful but it'll be the best thing for your growth, health, and understanding of the world. Use the grief to grow and learn about unconscious aspects of your personality, that way when the healing comes your roots will be deep and your light will be bright LOVE to all going through suffering
Sorry for your loss.. Feeling exactly the same. It only took me loosing a close relative to finally realize that my partner was not capable of being there for me. Ever. He even tried to pull the blanket on his side at this period acting “sick” to make me come to his place and take care of him while I was completely devastated. We should all be grateful to them for teaching us a lesson on what to avoid in relationship. Stay strong!
I’m so glad you found life and (sounds like) love!!! I was aware but ignored all the times he just did not care about me, my struggles, my pain. But he did come to my rescue when I was so depressed I couldn’t find another way, when I decided I needed to die. I’m still trying to figure out how it happened, how I wound up on a cycle - about 4 weeks - of feeling hopeful, industrious, moving forward, making plans, to anger and frustration, to catatonic and/or nonstop crying and mulling over the space I do not deserve to take up on this planet. Months of this, worse and worse and worse. Lol, he called me a narcissist so I went looking for the evidence - and found him! Cycle broken, depression gone, time for a new plan.
@@ambergerbuns You were trauma bonded; One of their favorite manipulation techniques! I too, in the end, became suicidal (he knew I was a SUICIDE SURVIVOR from a few years prior & he led me back into HIS black hole)! God blesses you & your children! ❤️🙏❤️
@@lorrainea6177 it just got so much darker. A friend called me last week, someone I haven’t spoken to in months. She had noticed my husband’s fb posts were getting scary and wanted to check on me. This past winter when I was begging again to go to rehab or be checked into psych ward - something, anything, because I was out of options but the only thing left would traumatize my children forever, and he was again giving me all the reasons he wish I could go but it just wasn’t possible, I did something weird and reached out to the few people I still knew around the country (I do not know anyone local) for help. I vaguely remember a stern pep talk from her, not helpful but nice to hear her voice, and that was it. Well, she calls me out of the blue, comments on the angry/pitiful fb activity, and then tells me that she called him after we spoke last winter. She said she was worried about me, and would do anything to help (childcare was the big obstacle to my going away, and she offered to take that on, being a mom of 4 herself with older kids, she was a perfect emergency care provider in this situation. She said she was willing to travel across three states, offered up all the possible scenarios, then started making an argument for why it is important to help, why didn’t he want to help, etc. She said he got downright hostile and basically told her to F off. ………………….. I don’t think I’m done processing this gem yet. I’m in shock, but not totally surprised. Did he want me to die? It would be amazing street cred! His first wife passed away, and that was what he led with when we met. It’s one of his favorite things about himself, tbh. Wtf???? I have preschoolers! How is this not criminal? Meanwhile I’m just gray/yellow rocking in perpetuity until I can find an out. Hard to do when he controls the finances, and my every movement lately. Grrrrrr! I waffle between seeing a broken child and feeling genuinely sad and angry that a baby was denied love, and seeing a monster, an evil thing to be feared, requiring the most careful approach as with an explosive. I’m sorry, that was a lot. I need to find some friends 😅😟
What sucks is, not only do we naturally empathize with vulnerable narcissists, they also take advantage of our empathy. They deliberately make you feel sorry for them so that you will forgive them for their abuse, control, etc. It becomes this internalized defense mechanism that when you're about to realize how abusive they are, you tell yourself "but oh, it's so sad, their childhood was so horrible, neglectful, etc., maybe I just need to give them another chance, love them some more, understand them deeper", and then you get stuck in an abusive cycle, losing more and more of yourself, while they reap the benefits. At the same time, sticking around and supplying them with narcissistic supply becomes a way of enabling their ways, of never looking inwards, of never changing. Sometimes the best you can do for them is to leave. (Not that I believe they can change. They can't. But setting boundaries is healthy.)
It went almost exactly like this for me. Except I started to express that the relationship was one-sided and first he apologized and said that's not his intention. When that didn't change I said it again and again and each time he said I was attacking him. I made the mistake of telling him he seemed to be a vulnerable narcissist (oops), and I stopped talking to him after he told me that I was the narcissist, that I wasn't feminine enough for him, and that j hated men. It's been a very difficult healing period, I miss him a lot lately, but this video bolstered me. I really needed it as I'll be seeing him on Zoom for a group work thing today, we haven't seen each other or spoken to each other since June and I'm feeling a lot of anxiety about it. This validation of my experience makes me feel more equipped to get through the session tonight. Thank you!
I have had such a similar experience! I was also told when I wouldn't "serve" him ecatlybas he wanted that I wasn't feminine enough, that I hated men, that I compared him to my dad, etc.... All allusions to my own past. Things I had worked hard to heal from and was actively making sure it wasn't affecting our relationship. I was made to feel that just asking for basic human decency was "too much" for him and I was an emotional burden to him. Words which were echoed from my childhood. So it has been so hard to extricate the lies from the truth.
mine also told me I hated men after I wouldn't recommit to the relationship even though it was so hard for me to stand my ground to this.. and also haven't seen him since June/july- and def wouldn't be able to do a video call that included him today so good luck and stay strong, maybe try to avoid any direct communication? he also called me the things I suggested he might be when I suggested therapy (thought I was helping at the time) .. crazy how so many situations are exact similar. sending strength 💪
Watching you from Italy, everything is so correct... I divorced from my husband years and years ago, yet it took me ages to realize that the relationship was toxic because he was a pathological narcissist, I was too young. Now that we have more tools to analyze these patterns it's easier to see the red flags, but 30 years ago, whoa, it was an uncharted territory. I think he started in a way like a vulnerable narcissist and ended up like a real black hole of almost undetectable violence, so subtle yet so mean. I found out that my surviving technique is now called the grey stone, but I had to find it all on my own. Sometimes I wish I could tell this story for hours to someone who "knows" what surviving a narcissistic abuse means. And I say "survive" and not "heal" on purpose, because I think that healing from such a deep bruise never stops. It eventually leads to a growth, facing one's demons, accepting one's limits and boundaries, deep digging into one's unacceptable sides, but you'll carry those wounds with you forever. It's up to you to decide whether to make them trophies, tattoos, books to read or stories to tell, or just shut them up into a box of memories, but forgetting is not an option and shouldn't be. Yet, I think they undermine one's self confidence so much that recovering is a really hard task. Thank you for being so accurate in your analysis, Dr. Ramani.
i had a very similar happen to me I suffered the abuse of a narcist and done the hole truth teller gray rock thing but some of that evil ended up in me. it would come out when I was overcome with frustration (something i seen as my worse trait all my life) then the narcistic bullets would fly. the problem was this hurt my loved ones witch only made me feel worse when my sense's come back witch led to more frustration. I think in me it came form I just wanted to feel better and when you don't know why you feel so shit its so hard and defeating. but learning all this stuff has lifted my wee soul back up and it finally got to see some light and everything came so easy to see. the first thing i done was give her the same as we have both been hiding from the world for so long in pain but we got there are love is stronger than ever. best advice I can give is that you are great and you know because after all that pain your still standing. PS the words to the Elton John song I'm still standing is about that moment when it all comes to you and the freedom it brings
What you said really resonated with me. Only married for 2 years but knew him for 3 yrs before that. Now in the throes of divorce & I don’t really have anyone that can understand what I’ve gone through(that I care to share with). Most days I’ll think I’m doing fine then it hits me…all I’ve been through, just seems surreal. Wishing you the best!
I remember him telling me early on that he was a “tortured soul”…totally ignored it thinking awe, poor guy. He would get mad/quiet/passive aggressive with me, and have temper tantrums if he felt I wasn’t giving him enough attention/touch/sex. Everything was his way or no way. Never wanted to watch movies I wanted to, eat at restaurants I suggested. I was easy going to everything but became exhausted/frequent headaches trying to appease him, forgetting about what I wanted/needed. In the height of the pandemic he was so angry about people wearing masks that it prevented us from going anywhere. He stated how stupid it was and how he didn’t want to be around all of these stupid people being brainwashed by government. He would always bring up really strange comments about things in his past relationships. It was like he was fishing for some kind of reaction from me. It was unsettling at times. When he started feeling my exhaustion and got irritated with my decrease in the validation/praise I was providing, he moved on to groom a new victim (while staying in our relationship), and then threw me to the curb like a piece of trash. I was in shock and despair. Two days prior to the cold discard, he called me an angel in his life that he couldn’t imagine making it without my support. Most horrible feeling… like a loved one has died. Thank you for your help to understand this disorder! I was only in this relationship for one year but feel so damaged. I can’t wait for your healing course! I have a great support group and have started daily daimoku chanting to help with anxiety. Have you ever heard of this kind of therapy? I find it so very helpful for trauma. xo
I can totally relate. I was devastated when he coldly discarded me. Only a week after he said the sweetest loving things. When I was ill and lost my father, he found a beter supplier for the praises he needed. Totally ghosted me, not explaining the break up. It's taken me 2 months to realise how much of my energy was drained by him. I didn't know this vulnerable type narcissist existed, but in hindside I have encountered quite a few. Starting with my parents. I wish you speedy recovery
I can definitely relate to your story. I was in a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist for 10 months and I feel completely defeated from being devalued, discard and ghosted. To make matters worse, we were living together and he decided to leave me last Friday while I was at work without any explanation.
Take your time to get to know people before allowing them into your heart space. Say no, and be ok with setting boundaries. U will learn who people are. They depend on us needing their validation
I think the “healing fantasy” from childhood plays such a huge part in caretaking nurturing behaviors in dysfunctional/toxic relationships especially with this type of dynamic too. I loved the chapter from Lindsay Gibson on “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” that talks about recovering internalizers who trauma bond with externalizers. Thank you for your spot on and needed content Dr. Ramani. 💞
@@Caligirl.8630 Yes! It’s a life changer. I had to look up from the book and curse several times while reading it. Lol. I found it easier to read the book a chapter at a time to be able to process all the information emotionally and mentally, then followed by a workout after. There are a lot of hard truths in it but it’s also extremely empowering. 💞
This whole ,,college is stupid“ thing was exactly what my covert narcissist did - this sounds exactly like my story I can never thank dr ramani enough for saving my sanity.
An ex-boss of mine often said "stupid," but actually he was an utterly incompetent manager. He always said board members were stupid, his boss was stupid, coworkers were stupid, and subordinates were stupid. I got away from that workplace.
I was told that material posessions were shallow and pointless after I asked for a biro-drawn card and £1 gift for valentines day.. (I was trying to make it easy for him!). Boy did I get punished for that, I got accused of being a gold digger and week long silent treatment. Apparently he was so talented and intelligent he should have been able to 'flip the board' on the game of life, but it was this nasty society being horrible to him and making him poor and ineffective... It's amazing how striking and similar the patterns of vulnerable narcissism are once you start to see them.
I had an experience with a vulnerable narcist. I met him at a camp and he cried when I first met him. In my head told myself this is a red flag people usually don't open up this quickly. College started and I started seeing more of him we spent hours talking about our childhood and experiences but there was something off-putting with our interactions. At times I felt manipulated and unheard I was giving him my time and patience. Sometimes he literally would sit by himself knowing that I'd sit with him. I would distance myself because he unloaded on me like I was his therapist. (he knew I wanted to be a therapist) and didn't take into consideration my feeling. I was like his insecurity dump. I knew what was going on I knew it wasn't ok but I didn't know how to get out of it I felt like when he first met me he pegged me as an easy target. I felt bad for him his upbringing his constant need for validation but I know I can't be the one to give it to him because it is mentally draining on me.
That "mentally drained" feeling is an excellent indicator in my opinion. With other narcissists I get the "walking on eggshells" feeling, after a conversation with a VN it takes me days to recover, to get my own emotional equilibrium back.
The covert narcissist’s love bomb looked exactly like what you outlined, Dr. Ramani. Thank you for this video. I have been questioning whether he was a narcissist. These relationships leave you feeling sucked dry, confused, and sad. At least, that’s how I am feeling. He discarded me a year and a half ago, but then hoovered me every couple of months. It was confusing and kept me stuck. The last hoover was three months ago. You think that once you know that they’re a narc, it will be easy to let go and heal. It’s not. I know that I can never take them back. I feel sad and I miss him or the fake person he presented to me. I’m working on moving on through self care, yoga, meditation, and doing things I used to enjoy, like, painting.
It sounds exactly like what I went through, was with a vulnerable narcissist for a year, 8 breakups out of thin air and then she'll ask to get back and I'll forgive. I thought she was just a tortured soul with bad history and I gave her an excuse after another. And finally when I started setting boundaries, she met another guy and was flirting with him while she was with me. We moved from making plans to move in together to a breakup within 3 days! It was like nothing I've seen before, and I thought I was good at catching narcissists, but that love bombing was unique. Still healing from it, and from the fact that I truly believed she was my soulmate.... Dr. Ramani, you need to make more videos about this type, listening to this was so validating
"she met another guy and was flirting with him while she was with me. We moved from making plans to move in together to a breakup within 3 days!" Same story here, except with a man. Or shall I say "man" because he isn't a real man for having done that.
I got "dumped" more times than I can count! And at the very end, he said it was my fault I was ensnared in his abuse because I obviously knew he wouldn't change and kept taking him back. He may be right, but it hurt to be told that.
In my case, she started an affair with her upstairs neighbor right after we got back from a wonderful vacation where I thought I could live with this woman.
"You're the only person I can talk to about this". Said the vulnerable narcissist to everyone they talk to.
OMG!!!!! I am 😶.
haha SO TRUE!!!
Yes!!! Same experience I had
😂😤and I actually believed him!!
As well as the related, "I've never told anyone this..."
I discovered my mother-in-law was a vulnerable narcissist when my first-born daughter passed away shortly after birth. She had already shown herself to be mean and unstable when she threatened to shoot herself when I was wedding planning and she didn’t get her way.
But when she showed up unexpectedly to our daughters funeral (from out-of-state) and became angry we didn’t pay enough attention to her, that was when I realized she truly didn’t love anyone but herself. All of the other problems became clear when I studied narcissistic personality disorder, and saw clearly that she would compare herself to me and others and always “compliment” me by putting herself down, or put me down by comparing me to others.
It took the devastating death of my child for me to understand that she couldn’t be reasoned with.
I'm so sorry ❤
So very sorry for your loss, and for the misfortune of having a close relative you can't depend upon.
Sincere condolences you had such a deeply troubling revelation at the worst point in life one can possibly imagine. I hope I do not offend by expressing my confidence your beautiful baby is in God's loving arms 🙏
This is why I am afraid to ever date again. They seem like normal people at first. If I hear a victim story it's a big red flag now. Healed people talk about how they are fixing it and how they have healed and how they took responsibility. This is such important knowledge.
I am in the same boat as you, mate. It’s so scary out there. I will always ask a potential date about their experience with therapy. Their reaction is quite telling. If they’re on a healing journey themselves, then I see that as a real potential.
Was just thinking how do you actually tell the difference between true social anxiety and vulnerable narcissism 😅 accountability. Phew
That’s a great point! I’ve never thought about it that way. Hearing how someone is healing is so much more conducive to an actual conversation than listening to someone speak of how victimized they’ve been.
You nailed it. It's very important to observe what they do to fix it and keep on track. Most of them just do the same things over and over.
It’s not always this simple, my narc totally BS’d me with the healing story. They know exactly what to say. Always.
It's almost creepy how accurate this describes my ex!
Same here. That’s why I had a hard time seeing him that way.
First red flag: You will witness/experience the passive aggressive behavior. They make it harder to leave because they will weaponize your empathy against you. Their "Vulnerability" is actually repressed anger. That was another red flag: anger issues.
Yep, I've learned an early red flag is that weaponization of empathy. They find ways to make you feel guilty really early on. Even if they're "just joking" when you question it, that's a red flag.
First dates: staring alot at me and not speaking/conversing much. Buying expensive gifts, trips and restaurant outings. Testing to see what my limits were: example, saying I’m at the restaurant close by watching soccer. Then when you ask why wouldn’t you invite me, says: you know you’re always invited! The staring was to observe me in order to mimic me and create the perfect character especially made for me. 👺
Agree. I saw my narcissist was so rude and disrespectful with waitress and it was eye opening and awakening. How this saint and perfect person, who is mocking me for being not spiritual enough, can be so angry and arrogant with a waitress?
This!!!
Absolutely! Major anger issues!
My experience with vulnerable narcissists is that contempt rolls off them in waves. They can't hide their bitterness and their hate. Listening to their negativity is exhausting.
🎯
I witnessed one attempt to light a candle in front of me and perform some kind of prayer to whatever new age deity she worshiped. It was such a joke of a performance! Her need for moral superiority, no matter how over the top, is pretty sad.
@Mary Carroll That's what baffles me! How do they think that! I just want to scream "You are not smart lady, you are an idiot! I can see what you are doing!"
Absolutely. After my curiosity finally got the better of me, I asked why our wall calendar had been marked almost daily for months with "C", "W" OR "CW". He was noting the days it was windy, cloudy or both. The constant negativity and self depreciating remarks had a huge affect on my own neural pathways and I went from a positive person to the opposite. I'm trying so hard to get back an attitude of gratitude but feel I'm failing miserably. 30 years of exposure to a litany of negative comments about virtually everything in the world around us is indeed truly exhausting.
Yess. Even when they are quiet, you wanna tell them to shutup. Lol
The idea of "not leaving or giving up on someone when they are down" really hits home. I thought I could save him. I thought I could love him enough to change his life and shine a light on him. I ended up losing my friends, family and self worth in the process.
I thought exactly the same thing. I’m trying to walk away and accept.
100% it’s crazy how so many people feel the same way. And have had so many of the same experiences!
Hey I am walking away too, my case is the same and very painful
Same, but with my family
The narcs played the whole time. It’s an awful feeling to realize what you lost for someone that doesn’t matter now because you never mattered to them.
THE COMPLAINING!!! It is the vampiric sucker of life and all joy.
So true.. all the time… so draining.
Worst thing is they self-sabotage, so in a way have real problems!
@@feanorian21maglor38 I'm not sure they are worse off than those who are forced to be around them.
So true…the constant complaints about EVERYTHING!
I grew up in a family of vulnerable narcissists, and I did a lot of therapy to get past it. These videos are so helpful because they show me where I've still got traces of narcissism to work through. It's hard to look back through my life and realize that even though I thought I was fine, I was still carrying on the family tradition with a victim mentality and being really self-absorbed. But I'm determined to get every last speck of these traits out of me. Being healthy enough to face the truth makes a big difference.
This is bad ass….this is what i like to call gangster ass real healing!!!! Self reflection and changing our behaviors to free ourselves from the self inflicted prison of childhood trauma….great job!!! Keeeeep Going!!!!❤🎉❤
You go!! 🎉🎉❤
This comment made me feel a lot better. I come from a family of narcissists where I was the truth-teller, but in learning more about narcissism, I can also see those behaviors in myself at times and it is mortifying- particularly in retrospect. I'd rather be mortified and working on it than just blindly or self-righteously getting away with harm I do not want or intend to force others to experience. I want to break the cycle of trauma and abuse, and stop seeing myself as a victim; I want to take accountability for my part in this. I think that you spend so long telling yourself that survival was enough, that it can become second-nature to lie in order to keep yourself safe and/or in the good standing of people you care about... and you can end up mimicking the narcissistic behaviors you tried more than anything to avoid repeating. It was a devastating realization that I wasn't entirely free from that which I hated so much about my parents. I don't want to be them. I never want another person to feel that way, especially not because of me being entitled or bitter or reactive or whatever it is and not even realizing it. Dr. Ramani speaks so hopelessly about narcissists that I didn't want to admit it to myself that I might be much closer to one than I thought; however, I am determined to change and rid myself of those behaviors. I don't think I was always like this; I think if you have to lie to protect yourself from an extremely early age, you can even hide those flaws you know are there from yourself, because you know you'll be harmed if they're in any way visible to your abusers. They've got to go. I still think and hope I'm the empathetic truth-teller that got me into such deep shit as a kid. I became so enmeshed with my family, it feels like I was angrily defending the person they'd cornered me into being over the course of a lifetime of abuse, lies and all. Fuck that. If I can quit drinking for three years and counting, I can quit them, quit being a victim, help myself, and stop fearing what will happen to me without them, and stop blaming them entirely for shit that actually IS innately my problem- sometimes, I just don't know where mine stop and theirs begin! It can't be worse than this; it can't be worse than losing integral parts of myself and becoming a monster like them. Narcissism is a disease. It metastasizes. I want to stop blaming them and accept I need to address a lot about myself as well.
@@brendanfoehr5086 That is very courageous! I wish you a succesful healing journey.
This is SO validating! They act humble, and like they are so altruistic. But the truth only becomes clear later...after so much manipulation. And it doesn't stop. Even at the end. They still see themselves as the "good" one...and no matter how badly you were treated...its still turned into.."I did so much for you!".
Covert narcissists are just so emotionally damaging.
Thank you, Dr. Ramini!
Oh. This. You said it so well!
Are you describing the same person I know?
I call this the fake boy scout act.
Very well explained.
Yes, it's amazing how they think they have done so much for us, right? My sibling goes back to my birth and talks about how they're not complaining, but they fed me and changed me and had to work when they were a teenager. Gag. It's disgusting getting cards talking about my birth from a sibling when I'm several decades old!
There is a difference between 1) helping someone who truly needs help in the moment and 2) taking on a “project” to transform someone else’s life or attitudes for them. We cannot change others; they have to want to change and put forth the effort to change themselves, to find better ways of coping and living. “Fixers” need to stop trying to fix others, and instead focus on fixing their own boundaries and seriously slow down in bonding with anyone who they feel drawn to fix.
@@learningenglishthroughtran8540 that sounds more like a narcissist preying upon a weak, vulnerable person, as opposed to someone who truly wants to encourage, support, and help others lovingly and without “keeping score”. You are speaking more of verbal criticism/abuse as “help”, opposed to a non-narcissist falling into a trap with a vulnerable narcissist.
Thank you Sharron I find that really helpful as it makes the distinction really clear.
@Mary Carroll careful, your gynocentrism is showing. Instead of complaining on here, what have you done about it? Refer to OP on forcing change. Realize you cannot fix a broken system singlehandedly, that includes the medical system. Either get on board, or get out of the way, your stress is contributing to the health problems.
@@PBVader ugh boring troll
@Mary Carroll you posted that purely for female validation. You either support your husband, or you don't. This is not a fefail board. How many men just shake their head and keep reading, while the hens cackle. The gig is up.
Narcissist label gets thrown around a lot these days. There are people who actually do need help and fail to launch because of undiagnosed ADHD, anxiety/depressive disorders, codependency, learned helplessness and OCD/religious trauma. These people do not help themselves because they do not know how. They have low self worth and self sabatoge. The sob story is often trauma dumping which is an unhealthy coping mechanism. You must be able to decipher covert narcissism from someone with other types of problems. Also, most people do not take on people as projects, because that type of person is probably people pleasing or looking for validation. The best way to avoid getting sucked in is to offer help in small doses, encourage and then pull back. Reward when they level up and stick to your boundaries. A narcissist will suck you dry but someone who needs help and support will benefit from it.
Because more and more people are looking up too narcs and accidently enabling it so more and more people turn too their self centered egos. I blame the lockdown from covid and lazy people.
Real narcissists do not accept help. It is as simple as that. They see themselves as perfect and they even tell you that they are perfect and you have a problem. If you have ever lived with one, you know it for sure. They destroy you. And it is more than time that the therm narcissist gets out in public. I have no empathy for them anymore.
There are indeed certain people who take on people as projects. These are both men and women.
It's not other people's responsibility to help them no matter they are narc or not. And it's their responsiblity that they hurt others.
I'm copying this post and will use it as guidance, for those of us who want to help but not want to be sucked in.
I also devised a test - I ask these covert narcs to help me with something, too. Not something they offer, but something I ask that will cost them a little trouble. If the angrily refuse and then start attacking you for asking and insisting - you can compare your ask to their much larger asks and then you got your answer.
I married a vulnerable narcissist. I thought he was a smart safe person who just wasn’t assertive enough to achieve their goals. After 15 years, I didn’t understand what was happening to me, but I knew that living with him was killing me. I was a shell of a person. 5 years later and I’m finally starting to recover.
What you said describes exactly how I felt watching my friend start dating my other (albeit fairly newer) friend. After 2 years she was at the lowest I've ever seen her. To this day she doesn't really get what was happening to her, just like you described. Luckily what snapped her out was him crossing a boundary (a physical one; although not with her, but himself, he tried hitting himself in front of her while driving a car) and she simply got scared enough to wake up from his numbing poison and run. I'm so thankful it was enough, because she was slipping continuously, and she KNEW that, but the numbing just kept going. I was so afraid I'd lose her but was unable to help her. It felt like she was dying.
I'm so sorry. After 15 years divorced, I struck up a new friendship with mine, thinking we had both grown, matured, learned. It started GREAT, felt real, true, etc. Then he asked to get back together, then abruptly discarded me at xmas. Now I"m the scapegoat being gaslighted again. WTF. Why didn't I learn about vulnerable narcissism years ago??!! This is all making so much sense. The defeated vulnerability, the fragile ego, the constant complaining, the all-too-intense connection in the beginning.
So glad you had the strength to leave
Are you still married?
Same, but I was married 12 years. But his narcissistic rages were getting worst, scary. Every time he picked up drinking again it got unbearable. I had to put a restraining order on him, but he kept swinging back by the house. I had to flee my home, sneak back to clean it up and rent it out. We’re separated. After I refused to be a resource, he disappeared on to the next resource. I don’t know if I could get a divorce… I feel like it’ll hurt me way more financially, emotionally, spiritually… because I know he’ll use my faith against me to justify himself and to insult my decision to leave him.
Dr Ramani is speaking about my story. I met a person many years ago, who in very beginning was so different- humble and shy, who understood me and respected all my efforts in life, but later made me believe that all my success, everything I accomplished, all my dreams and beliefs are garbage. My education is nothing. My experience is nothing. I felt the worst guilt for myself and everything I do. This person was disgusted by my financial success and in the same time accepted my financial help. I started seeking psychological help because I believed that I’m arrogant, materialistic, horrible person. And it was the best decision- I found out that the problem is not me. And now, after many years of recovery from self-hate, guilt and shame I’m listening Dr Ramani and I’m crying inside of my heart because this wound is still hurting. Thank you doctor Ramani. You are speaking my truth and my story. Thank you.
I can empathise. This particular video resonates with my person story, too, more than any of the others, right down to minute details. Glad to know you have improved. Best wishes.
Exactly my story. I didn’t know he was a narcissist until after I got discarded and started looking at videos on RUclips. He would put down my accomplishment like it was nothing. Mine you I am a physician and I met him in medical school. He didn’t complete medical school and I think he was angry with me for that. I think he was just jealous. It’s not my fault he didn’t finish. These people need help
@@bee12355 You finished, he didn't but he belittled your accomplishment? You can bet your bottom dollar he was jealous! Mean spirited or what.....
I bet that for all the contempt and lack of empathy he showed for you, your achievements and efforts, he would nevertheless accept any offer of financial help from you without a moment's hesitation.
Thank you for sharing!
The uniqueness of this situation is that for many years I didn’t see “love bombing” phase from the covert narcissist. I thought that I’m the one who is “love-bombing”. I felt that I need to help them emotionally, financially, psychologically - I gave them all my resources. Love bombing from covert narcissist- is their story in very beginning , when they represent themselves as almost saint human, who didn’t succeed in life because of their humbleness. This was the most seductive and exquisite love bombing.
This was exactly my experience! I spent 15 years wondering what was going on. I hope you’ve found happiness. I’m on my way to finding it. Good luck!
This is how movie romances start
That was my experience. I didn’t know he was a narcissist until I got discarded without a reason. It was just crazy
You are right, it feels we are lovebombing them instead because we put so much effert in making them feel better, heal them, reçue them...to the point of exhaustation and heartbreak💔. This is a great comment, thank you❤
You’ should love these type of people that’s the sick thing about a narcissist they steal the lives of real people that go through or have actually experienced that sadness while attempting to remain a good person.
Don’t be mad for loving be mad at the narcissist for switching up on u
The circular arguments are what gets me. Recycles the same nonsense month after month year after year.
Early in the relationship I shared that my first husband had devastated me by telling me he was no longer physically attracted to me. After a 25 year marriage to my second husband who is a fragile narcissist, I finally left him. During the divorce, he started crying and said to me, “I’ve never been physically attracted to you.“ They remember for decades and store it up to hurt you. He was crying when he said it. Always playing the victim when covertly he was being most toxic to me.
💔😡
Had my narc telling me that in the end of the relationship.
I laughed it off as he is really overweight. But I would never say that to somebody. They are so cruel.
Ugh. I am so sorry he said that to you, but so glad you saw it for what it was. You’ve also reminded me why I’m so terrified to tell people the bad things I’ve gone through or are going through. I’m sitting here, low-key concerned that I sound like I’m “confessing” my hurts in order to leverage them when in reality, I’m just afraid of them being weaponized against me.
@@michellebaker793 May I suggest you read the book CPTSD by Pete Walker. It gave me so much insight into why I chose a Narcissist in the first place. It sounds crazy but it really is based in childhood trauma. Emotional trauma. Thank you for sharing and I feel a connection to you because I’m not judging you, I’m looking for common connection. You are a beautiful person and you did not deserve any of it and if you would’ve known what was going on you would’ve left. Please give yourself a hug for me.
@@tinnitusisnotmusic6807 this was a really insightful understanding of how he manipulates through crying. After reading your response I gave it a lot of thought and you are absolutely correct! He actually would make himself cry when he was saying things to hurt me the most. Thank you so much for sharing this with me! Give yourself a hug for me!
A rule of thumb I came up with during recovery from a deep but poisonous friendship with one of these people: Grandiose narcissists love-bomb, vulnerable narcissists need-bomb. Maybe oversimplified but it's kept me out of trouble since. Thanks for this vid. Much needed imo
"Need-Bomb" That's IT! That's IT!
« Need-bombing », God that’s it!
Thanks for putting it into simple words!
Omg you’re right! Need bombing - that’s what he did to me, got so much stuff from me and money over his hard luck life 🙄
"need-bombing" -- thats the perfect description! Thanks for the tip!
Need bomb, perfect word.
"And then you look up and realize you're doing all the ...work in the relationship." Yup, that sums it up! Anything you ask them about gets scoffed at, treated with contempt.
Exactly - I realized that I was doing all the problem solving, empathizing - while the friend did a lot of nothing except complain without any intention of solving any of her issues. They also offer up very little to you while they expect you to bend over backwards for them - the relationship, whether it's with an ex partner or a friend - it's always unbalanced - always.
Oh boy this was my reality...his bad parents!
Microexpressions of contempt were my first signs of who I was dealing with.
@@MissSandyC this is exactly what I went through with my ex-friend. I was putting in all the effort, whilst she did nothing except moan about how terrible her life was (it isn't). I was even expected to provide emotional support when I was having a hard time, like when I had emergency surgery and was in too much pain to move, or on the anniversary of my mum's death. It was all about her 24/7 and I was exhausted
@@phippskat I'm so sorry that you went through all of that - it's VERY draining and leaves us feeling like nothing we do or say even matters. They just aren't there for anyone else even when we have terrible things happen to us - surgery, a death in the family - they minimize that because, in their mind, THEIR issues are paramount even when common sense says otherwise. They are true energy vampires. xoxox
They will lovebomb you to begin with. Nice gifts. Nice dates. Charming. Funny. Affectionate. Compliments. They will tell you that they have strong feelings early on. All of this is fake!! Done to lure you in. They cant love anything or anyone (appart from themselves). I felt there was something off at the start. My gut was screaming at me to leave but i didnt listen. You will see the red flags. But choose to ignore them. When everything goes there way everything is good. But if they’ve had a stressful day at work or something happens to p*** them off they will be moody and misserable. They will play hot and cold. One day they are lovely other days they are cold and distant so you never know where you stand with them. Leaving you feeling confused, hurt and not good enough. Dont ever pull them up on their bad behaviour. If you do they will end the “relationship”. They manipulate and gaslight you into taking their bad behaviour and disrespect. How dare you stand up for yourself! You should bow down to them and be a door mat because they are the best thing since sliced bread and you should be greatful that they chose you! They will blame everything that goes wrong in the relationship on you. They are never to blame. They will never appologize. They will manipulate you into thinking its your fault and you will end up appologizing for your reaction to their bad behaviour. Everything will always be on their terms! You will do whatever they want to do when they want to do it. If its not something they enjoy doing they will not do it. And on the off chance that they will they will be misserable the whole time. They will see you when it suits them. They will never plan things in advance or make future plans. They will never fully commit. If your going through a hard time in life they will never be there to support you. They will avoid everything that involves emotional connection. Dont ever cry in front of them because they will think that your crazy for having feelings. They cant even give to a hug if you were to cry in front of them, they will just look at you blankly. They have no empathy what so ever. They are very selfish and only care about their own needs. Your needs mean nothing to them. They are dead on the inside. No feelings. No emotions. Just an empty soul. They are addicts. They drink too much. They gamble too much. They are stuck in their ways. They will never change. They will lie. They will cheat (mine had been a serial cheater in past relationships and i though that he wouldnt be the same with me. I have no proof that he cheated but from his past its very likely). They will use you. All of this will have a negative effect on your mental health. You will loose so much of yourself with a narcissist. They will drain the life out of you. Save yourself. Love yourself. Leave these toxic human beings. Moreover, I could've gotten hurt from the impact of been cheated on. I'm glad that i got to know ASAP, through METASPYCLUBLLC@GMAIL. COM and I appreciate the content you put out for us .
they dont love themselves either. they have no sense of self. its all a facade there is nothing to love. they live quite miserable lives themselves while making everyone else miserable. they can never form real connection
why do these people act this way?
Grateful*
@@surfreadjumpsleep based on my research, its because of emotional neglect or abuse as a kid, they form a false self to protect their self esteem. That false self is very fragile, insecure, and in turn makes people act in very weird ways. I would highly recommend researching top experts in the field and reading literature on it to both identify and protect yourself.
@@fart5923 very true. My love bomber , which I’ve now found out, was already talking to another woman, whilst still with me. Child abuse from another male, 2 ex wives, and looking back only 4 weeks ago. His eyes are dead inside him and so is his soul. He likes the chase but once caught you are then thrown away like a used toy. I’d been speaking to him several times per day, and would say it’s ok relax, if your too tired at the moment ring later. Oh I’m so lucky to have you 🤢🤢🤢🤢lying A/Ho..
My vulnerable narcissist ex told me “you’re incapable of love because you were never loved as a child” weaponising my childhood experiences against me to explain why I, in their view, was “incapable of loving them”, basically because I wouldn’t take their s*** anymore
Sounds soooo familiar
i thought i was reading my comment . My ex said the same exact words to me . said i wasn’t capable of love because of my chidhood . Told me there weren’t many like him around . it’s been 3 months . im feeling great now
Mine said that too!
I got "you don't forgive people because your father never forgave you so you don't know what an apology looks like"
Oh. My. God. Mine said these exact words and did this exact thing. Penny just dropped.
My last ex was the vulnerable narcissistic. I couldn't believe it when he said he didnt grow up wealthy like me (excuse me?!) and his parents had to scrape by. I knew his mother had been in a nursing home only wealthy people could afford, I saw the big house he grew up in, knew about his trust fund, and he was an only child and both parents had good jobs. I couldn't believe he said that, to me of all people! Amazing. Just amazing. I guess it was a line he was used to using on people not from around here, or he just met.
“Pseudo intimacy” is the absolute best phrase to describe what I experienced. It sadly took years to realize that it was never coming.
Heartbreaking
They fake empathy at first and then they discard and treat ya like crap.
I've experienced this pseudo-intimacy with my exhusband. Took me years to figure out wtf happened and how I got so bamboozled. Recently I met another covert narcissist and had a chance to observe his scheming and how he created this "intimacy" and if I didnt know any better, I'd fall for it. They are literally the best actors and masters at deceit.
Same. I am sure, in my case, it took so long to realize, because I simply didn't know what intimacy was. No concept. Never had the experience.
Our mother flat out rejected us, me and my siblings.
Shaming us insistantly for existing (and, God forbid, having needs). How could I know what I don't know?
@@easygii their deceit is absolutely crushing.
They are the most dangerous. You nailed it.
Not me but a dear friend who is SUCH a giver and helper and doer. She’s been taken in by at least TWO of these people (one her husband’s sister). It doesn’t help she was raised by a malignant narcissist herself. She’s in therapy and learning boundaries. It’s hard, but she has cut them out of her life. I’m so proud of her.
I feel for her. That’s what I’m working on too. It’s such a blow to the sense of whatever self I knew to realize how often I’ve been sucked in by predatory people and left feeling empty and broken. I’m glad she has a friend who gets it. 🙂
Who is a malignant narcissist
Any time you hear “How bad the world has treated me”. It’s a red flag! Run….I have learned the hard way. This is many people’s identity in which they gain attention….
I made the change , when I made the connection that saying narcissists was dating my mother . It was ‘home ‘ ‘familiar ‘ .. once I realised it , I’ve never seen one again. Saying ‘no’ weeds then out in minutes
I’m divorcing a vulnerable narcissist. They are always the victim and nothing is ever their fault. During arguments she would use everything you’ve shared as a weapon, but the minute you mention theirs they play the victim to make you feel bad and say this is why they never open up to people. Whatever she fails to get done becomes my fault because I didn’t help her get them done. Also when they want their way or want to get out of something then they will become emotional and cry as a way to manipulate to get what they wanted. They hold you to a standard as a partner that they can never give you in return. Lastly, they take control over the argument to express their emotions and you never get a turn to express yours. You’re left being upset while they’re already behaving like everything is okay again.
Both my parents to a T . Listening to 6oy say this makes me wonder if I have relatives I don't know about 💛
Ugh you read about one, it’s like reading about all of them. Ex husband entirely described here.
That last point! Oh my god… I would bring up a frustration or upset and he would talk for hours, cut me off if I tried to interject, tell me to stop talking so he could *finally* get his point out and the argument was only ever done when HE decided WE weren’t upset anymore. He would then go on to say how proud he was of us that we could handle our upset so well. That only fostered my willingness to let him dictate what was happening and how I should see our relationship and him.
I had 4.5 years with my narc, I left him almost 7 weeks ago. Hardest 7 weeks of my life but every day I watch Dr. Ramani I feel a little more committed because I see him so clearly now
♥️
@@NewNameNaomi God blesses you, Lyndsey! Keep fighting the devil energy/doubt that he programmed in your brain (as did mine!). WE GOT THIS & GOD'S GOT OUR BACKS! ❤️🙏❤️
My ageing, covert parent, to a tee.....thanks for sharing
Every single word in this video applies to the situation I had. I gave him a place to live, lent him money, took him to every single medical examination he needed, any school or office he needed to go, prepared food, and after 8 months, I found myself jobless, sleeping 4 hours a day but still so busy doing his tasks, and he is still unsatisfied and expects me to do more.
"No matter how much empathy, or no matter how many caring ears you offer them, they will forever seem stuck in a victimized place, and can't seem to move forward from that mindset." This is... someone I'm close to in my family right now. I thought she just needed to get things off her chest, but now I'm realizing, after 2 years of listening to her complain, that it will never come off her chest. In fact, I'm beginning to think she likes it this way.
EXACTLY, well said!
We go one wrong to another. We always gotta have a bad guy so we can see the world as unjust.
My ex was highly competitive in very subtle ways with me. He pretended to be my ally and on my team, all the while sabotaging my successes. In my opinion, there is no room for competition in intimate relationships. You are either on the same team and working for common goals or you’re not in an intimate relationship at all.
My experience too 😔
Exactly!
My ex was subtly competitive too. We also worked together and he hated it if I upstaged him.
Hear hear
Well said!
Dr. Ramani is spot on. My vulnerable Narcissistic ex bf was the shy type with a recovering addict backstory. He would often say, he believes he is autistic because he felt the world couldn't understand him and vice versa. He struggled to get a job, and couldn't hold a job because he felt it was beneath him. He opened up to me pretty fast and I felt really admired and loved by him at first. Early in the relationship he couldn't afford his apartment and I let him live with me. It totally drained me, he wouldn't try to get a job and just used me. On top of it all, he would dismiss feedback and validate my emotions, gaslight me and never reassured me that he wasn't speaking to other women romantically. He totally used all my insecurities and my past traumas against me. Two years later I had to evict him because he threaten to grab a knife from my kitchen and kill me. Currently, trying to get a restraining order and then I realized all his backstories were white lies. Our relationship was all based on lies and he manipulated me into believing he was a good, caring, and sensitive person. Coincidentally, he has a "Giving Tree" tattoo, he's the little boy and the whole world is the tree. Vulnerable narcissist are absolutely the worst, any sympathy for them will come back and literally try to kill you.
Just looked up 'The giving tree' - that's a pretty messed up story. Sorry you went through so much.
I’m tempted to ask you his name. You sound like the poor woman my ex latched onto after I kicked him out! I’m glad you’re out!
Your experience is so close to mine that my stomach turned at the thought that your ex is my ex. Every detail. I’m sorry you experienced so much. Thanks for sharing. I feel less alone.
It's devastating to realize that you have been sucked in by a manipulative selfish man child. Not Easy to get away from after commitments are made. Turns out, they live litigation. Just waking up to realizing this urge to rescue is a serious problem. Seeing it in lots of places.
Man child... How perfect
I also want to add an approving nod to the "man-child" description; my abuser was nothing less.
These marriages all need to be annulled in which one partner becomes a different partner once the wedding has taken place.
You are not alone in being compassionate. Some will take advantage. But keep an eye out, with the help of Dr. Ramani. Your situation will eventually change for the better. Happy '22!
"Manipulative selfish man child". I couldn't have said it better. I'm going to remember that.
I don’t like calling any narcissist “vulnerable” they are far from it, they’re extremely dangerous, more so than the in your face narcissists.
This perfectly depicts why it took me a decade to acknowledge and ACCEPT what I was truly dealing with.. The "intense humility" is how they get everyone else to believe they are so great and their significant other is the real problem.
Takes quite a while observing to really see the face behind all the mask - because it is VERY deceiving
as the same thing as you don't saw how abusive this family behind the curtains.....
people will always judge, no matter how kind you are, and it saddens me as unhealed Empath seeing people hate each other and suspicious to people intentions....
i know im one of those rare kind, having dark alters as result of several trauma, but no matter how hard i'll explain, people still gonna judge right?
still, it saddens me to know how harsh people this day to the mentally people out there....
Empaths and deep sadness, it might be my identity, until God takes all of me, and facing death right before my eyes
It took me 5 years to leave and almost 1 year to fully understand what I was dealing with.
And a part of me still won’t actually believe this is what he truly is.
I think I just need more time.
Courage to everyone! Be brave.
@@chriswyma145 man, there's many guys out there having mental issues, i saw how bad some musicians dealing with addictions and depression, although they might sound self centered and hating on their song, they just human and they also suffers, cmon man, why would we always judge mentally ill people, they already suffer enough, be kind to them...
@@chriswyma145 oh wait, that's your girl right? sorry if i come out, out if context, hahahh
@@learningenglishthroughtran8540 yes. you read me in everywords you say, as some guy who like to criticize others for the sake of being morally superior, i hate that honestly.....
people do make mistakes, and you can deal of people mistakes and just judge they for their past mistake, you will and eventually make people leave....
is that how people live this day? judge people behind accounts, and try to be morally superior to people? I don't think good people do that way honestly, social media just make everything sucks dude....
yeah, i know those social construct and hierarchy, but again, be kind to people living with bad situations man, kindness make people living in harmony...
that's why i kinda hate some of western culture and modernity, about free will and free critics, some of it are dark and into hate speech and death threats, man, people this day are too harsh to something....
like they never believed in kindness and God Grace...
I started a business with a vulnerable narcissist. I wanted to 'unlock her potential' and I felt deep sympathy for her tragic back story. It did feel intimate at the beginning....then the bullshit started. I ended up drained, depressed, and stuck. It's been about a year since I've gone DEEP, severely limited contact (silver lining to COVID), and began to build a healthier life for myself. Vulnerable narcs are incredibly manipulative. Also, the guilt is real. In my early recovery, taking care of myself first instead of them (she was truly confused when she realized that meeting her needs was not my 1st priority), sometimes I still feel like I'm kicking a puppy, but the feeling passes.
Guilt and pity... So true :/
And you have been made to, or programmed to feel like that, because looking after you first, is never equivalent to kicking a puppy. Self care is not selfishness, it's your responsibility. It's so hard to reprogram this stuff. It feels counter intuitive, turbo charged.
I can relate, we feel bad for them. So true
I am glad you are away from her and that lockdown has given you the opportunity to focus on your own needs and life.
I made the mistake a few months ago of not setting clear boundaries and sticking to them. I wanted to help one friend out on a project they got involved with. However I realised that they would complain quietly in the corner to me about problems and concerns they had, but when it came to meetings they said nothing. This is not a Narcissistic person, but someone with low self-esteem who is struggling with their self confidence. I have tried to help, but when I heard the words 'I can't do this without you!' and 'I just need you to be there, you don't need to do anything.' Alarm bells went off in my mind.
I may want to help someone until they learn a skill or complete a task that needs multiple hands/ minds to complete, but then I want to step away and get on with my own stuff and life. I have made the mistake of trying to rescue people before who were adults and capable of learning to look after themselves. Like you it drain me so much that I had no enthusiasm and energy for my own life.
You have probably helped a lot of other people who really appreciated your help and support, also it was good and kind of you to try to help her. However you have not been born to be someone's slave. Your existence is not about being there to support and enhance their existence and life.
Good Luck to you kind Soul!
@@maevey3 Hello! Your reply is very helpful to me - you have a way with words. Thank you very much 😊
"Nobody falls in love faster than a narcissist who needs a place to live." He left our 35 year marriage and moved in with a woman he recently met online. Based on his last words to me he left because i was hostile and an angry women.I now recall my subtle lovebombing almost 50 years ago. His last girlfriend was an angry woman (gee, is there a pattern here?) He came across as friendly, naive and vulnerable. I felt like I was offering my friendship to someone who seemed lonely.
HOBOsexual.
I had a narcissist “friend” move into my house and refuse to get a job or pay rent. When I tried to talk to them about how I couldn’t afford to be supporting her, she would cry and talk about how hard life has been to her and how if it weren’t for me she’d be dead.
She manipulated me for years with that routine but I finally lost it when she came home with new hair and nails that she had bought on a credit card (AFTER I PAID OFF HER LAST SECRET CARD and she swore she would never ever do that again since I was feeding her and she had no need to be spending money when she had no job)
I dumped her shit in plastic bags and moved. She does not know where I live and never will. And I will never rent a room out again.
(Makes me think - there’s a housing crisis right now and narcissists kind of destroy the market by traumatising renters into never renting rooms again)
So true!!
a hobo-sexual!
Yes listen to the date who tells you all his prior relationships were " crazy", "needy" or any other vague word, the hint is every past partner has the same label. That is the same label you will get when the Narcissist is done with you!
' Being someone who feels like always helping and ' fixing ' people's problems to help them - can encourage a vunerable narcissist ' - WOW . Absolutely true
If you have been trying to help someone for awhile and they're still not helped, it's because they don't want help; they want attention.
Excellently put. My vulnerable adult narc stepson has been having problems for several years, and we've tried so hard to help.... he's now totally ghosted me, citing imaginary instances from his childhood when I supposedly treated him badly. The truth is he refuses help, because what he wants is his parents and grandparents hovering around him, while he plays the victim. My husband is finally getting tired of it, but still accepts too much responsibility for everything that's going on. As for me, I can breathe a sigh of relief now he's finally ghosted me permanently, as it was hard work walking on egg shells all the time.
After escaping a nearly 8yr malignant Narc, I took a year off to heal. The very next relationship I walked into was a vulnerable/Covert Narc. It's been more difficult to recover from this relationship, which was 2yrs long. I'm upset I didn't see any of the normal love bombing signs, even though they weren't flashy and the same. I felt I'd done so much work and research to protect myself from this happening again, only for it to happen again. Trauma on top of more trauma has really set me back.
Tc
@Back_to_the_nineties 02 thank you for taking care of you
I can totally relate to this.
- take heart - you are doing the best that you can, and that's enough - that's all you need to do - ask God to help you, and if you find yourself starting to get involved with someone, ask them what their goals are in life, what are their values, and what are their interests. then go home and write down your own answers to those questions - if they don't match up, don't get close to that person :)
Don't give up Christine. The vulnerable type is way harder to detect. They seem to be humble, understanding, helpful and altruistic in the beginning. Their fragility make you believe they are different and that they won't ever hurt you. Plus they seem to be open and honest, but only in the first place.
The dissapointment is bigger because the reality is far far away from what you've expected. What do we expect from a grandios narcissist? Well, we kind of know or at least feel that he is a liar, a show, a mascerade. We also kind of know he will cheat on us, right?
But in the case of the vulnerable counterpart? Well, in my case I really thought he finally is the one I will spend my life with. He made me believe so by saying "wouldn't it be nice, if we could stop searching (for the right one)!?" Wow, those words blew my mind. But then reality hits you hard and you are already trapped in this cognitive dissonance. You find out, it's all fake. The humble, friendly guy you met in the beginning turns out to be a manipulator, an opportunist, a cold-hearted being who's only interest lies in himself. So obviously it's harder to recover from such an encounter, it's simply the bigger fraud!
The love bombing with a vulnerable narc is more like emotional gifts. Sharing a lot, making you care for them and sympathize with them, and the biggest….understanding. Or rather giving you the feeling of understanding. They understand how your sibling abused you emotionally, they understand that you have a past, they understand. But then one day they don’t, and they use all the things you confessed against you to avoid accountability for their actions. They use the “understanding” they gave you in the beginning of the relationship to trap you into understanding their behavior AKA excusing their behavior. Example; “it’s not my fault Im abusive, I grew up mentally I’ll in a family who didn’t understand” or “it’s not my fault I hit you, I am still learning how to be a person , you know I have a history of drug abuse”
rationalisations
They are not responsible for the wounds and abuse but yes for her way to cope with it, healing and her own reaction to it
The “using everything you shared against you” is deeply hurtful in more ways than I can put into words.
Realising they never really listened to anything they supported you in too! These weird half bits of information from everything you've told them
Oh god…. This is literally what is happening to me. 😨
This is why it is so important to have strong boundaries. To have a stiff back and not comply with every demand. To be able to say "This far, but not further"
My parents. Absolutely resistant to therapy, change, the hard work of raising their emotional IQ. I was the rescuer child, the emotional regulator, the emotional caregiver, the verbal piss pot for the whole family. I'm ashamed of how long it took me to realize that allowing myself to be emotionally drained by people like that robbed my children of a fully functioning mother. The amazing thing about covert narcissists is that they manage to delude people into thinking that goodness lies in pandering to their pathology rather than giving to those who truly need it.
Your story echos my own. Cheers to healing and no contact!
I feel you - I’m (hopefully) on the verge of moving out again and I’m getting all the guilt trips from both parents that I’ll be leaving them (to resume my own adult life). I’m ashamed too of how I’ve let them affect my mental and physical health as the rescuer/marriage counsellor/comforter/servant
@@KatjaBaby me too
Well said Therese D !
I knew a covert narcissist and their favorite word was "stupid." This was stupid, that was stupid, I'm so stupid, etc. It was only a matter of time before I realized that "stupid"- when applied to themselves- was false humility. When applying the word "stupid" to others, it was a way to elevate themselves above the rest.
Yep! My husbands fav word! Stupid and idiot! He got this “thrill, high” when he would call me those names
@@jasmine3416 Hope you are on the road to healing, you deserve waaaaay better than that!
EXACTLY ! You nailed it.
@@brightbite thank you. We all do!
Yes, my MN does this. Thanks for sharing.
My sister, a highly successful professional, to out utter dismay, met up with this guy who is EXACTLY what you described him to be. She went on this rescue mission for him, allwed him to stay in her house, let him use her car (which he smashed the first time he drove it- and instead of being apologetic blames the other guy) writes and edits his emails, his resumes ( while he looks over her shoulder and criticizes her editing!) She has taken on this mission of championing him and his quest thinking that she is lifting up the father of her child. He has finally found a stedy full time job and even BEFORE they had moved in was dropping hints about how the job was beneath him and laying the foundation for her to expect to move again. I find myself in a continuous state of mourning as i watch her being mistreated and twisting herself into a pretzel to accommodate the wasteful useless creature. What is even more gut wrenching is that if we dare say anything she attacks us with viciousness while he slouches back with a smirk on his face. I know this has turned into a novella instead of a comment but once those gates open up it's hard to put the cap back on.
Like losing a sibling to addiction
@@cairosilver2932 YES!! Thank you!!
Sounds like your sister has to learn the hard way, hopefully before complete damage occurs.
Wasteful useless creature smirking. This describes exactly the man who stepped on my back to lift himself up and now that his mess is fixed for the moment, I am garbage and not worth even common civility. It's amazing how they mow through other people's resources like a locust in a crop.
@@dragonclaws9367 Aye.
I briefly dated a vulnerable narcissist. Luckily, I saw the red flags early on. What initially seemed like deep, intimate sharing quickly transformed into me having to listen to endless sad stories from his past. I caught on to this, along with his passive aggressive behavior. When I confronted him about it, he became defensive and started blaming me. He even said that his trust in me was betrayed! I believe your work helped me see these toxic patterns quickly, so I removed this person from my life. Many thanks! Gratitude and appreciation!
The same stories ;; usually made up and from their unverifiable "youth".... aggressively "shared".. over and over and over... at nauseum .... and your fully expected to "hold court"... like your hearing it for the first time..every time;; and if you have say for example ;; ... brain surgery coming up, they will MAYBE acknowledge it MAYBE, , if so ..... with something flippant that doesn't properly acknowledge the seriousness of the victims health issue like" Man that's tuff eh?.. I can imagine... because this one time, I had this really bad headache once ..ect ect... and at LENGTH , in minute detail . As the victim sits there truly confused and wondering "did they just not HEAR me! ? Then you realize that EVERY single topic comes back to THEM. .....and you begin to walk away or even bother voicing your own serious health problems ... then YOU are blamed for not putting up with the verbal barbs and "jokes".and guilted or raged at for not listening intently in awe. it wears thin after awhile even for a victim .
How does vulnerable narcs behave in the beginnig with texting, did he write the first message or initiate contact, did he text alot, did he respond to text fast or slow and one more thing do they use alot of emojis when texting
I love how you caught this, my spirit picked up on this, but my heart didn't, and got myself entangled with this person. But then I caught on.
I’ve known many of these types of narcissists in my life, especially in my family. These narcissists thrive on pity. They love pity because it allows them to get what they want from the people around them. They’re perfectly okay with looking desperate and pathetic, as long as you are giving in to them
I overheard my ex husband laughing about getting funds saying "yeah... Cry it in lad"
They know exactly what they are doing!
1000000% true
I met the covert narcissist 38 yrs ago. He came off as incredibly shy. He was so in tuned to me and the conversations we had. After about 6 months there were red flags that I was no longer a priority. I was being devalued. When I began pulling away he came back “hot and heavy”. This cycle went on and on long after I married him. It took me 3 yrs to understand his personality type and to successfully divorce him.
I think I was in a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist. Almost straight after the first date, I heard his stories explaining how difficult a childhood he'd had, how he was bullied at school and at home. A few months into the relationship, I realised he didn't want help healing from those things. It was like it gave him a sense of feeling special in how uniquely he'd suffered - exactly like Dr Ramani said in this video.
I believe you! Described this type of behaviour to a flying monkey of my narc and , well, you know how that went over!
The love bombing I received looked like this:
-poor Eeyore, he’s so sad and mopey
-a lot of future faking. We’d talk about vacations we wanted to take, the house we wanted to build… when xyz happened (which it never did)
-his roommate sucked, his parents sucked, there was always that supervisor that didn’t recognize his expertise, and they sucked too
-everyone he’d been with had cheated on him, he decided to trust me anyway and take a leap of faith
Whoa is sounds super familiar.
I’m igor
... oh my god. You might as well describe my ex. I'm honestly shook rn
@@TwinkTwankTwonk omg yes. All of that too. would also take advantage of minor illnesses/aches and pains and way over exaggerate to gain sympathy. I remember actually being angry that he had caught another cold/kept getting sick
@@TwinkTwankTwonk so funny! My sister called my ex Eyore. He is deff. a covert
A long time ago I had a best friend who I codependently did too much for. One time I said no and they told me I had "abandoned [them] in their hour of need." But it was always their hour of need. It didn't go both ways. Great video, thank you!
Hmmmmmm🤔
what happened to the friendship in the end then
"I've never opened up to anyone about this before!" *except I've told every other person I've dated*
10/10
🎯
So true. So true. 👍
I was a single mom when I met him. I was doing really well and I thought he was such a good guy. He triangulated my relationship with my daughter and made it all about him. I neglected her and it is horrible to admit now. I divorced him and have been focusing on healing my relationship with my adult daughter. She learned from me what dysfunctional marriages look like and she has always attracted narcissist into her life. We’re both divorced and focusing on her children and loving them now and I’m grateful.
I felt that something was wrong with him since the very beginning. Had no idea about narcissism back then, but the red flags were all over, so I kept my distance...however he managed to mess with my head even during the short time I actually spent with him. It can be really intoxicating when someone presents himself as everything you ever wanted but in this passive way, as if asking you to be his hero. I craved emotional connection and he mirrored me with such an intensity that a couple of days spent together were enough for me to assume that this person could be my soulmate if only he were healed. The problem was....he never wanted to heal...I felt like he was indulging himself in the past traumas.
absolutely spot on
My ex was literally the snake from the following story:
Girl and the Snake
A young girl walking along a mountain path to her grandmother's house heard a rustle at her feet. Looking down, she saw a snake, but before she could react, the snake spoke to her.
"I am about to die," he said. "It's too cold for me up here, and I am freezing. There is no food in these mountains, and I am starving. Please put me under your coat and take me with you."
"No," the girl replied. "I know your kind. You are a rattlesnake. And if I pick you up, you will bite me and your bite is poisonous."
"No, no," the snake said. "If you help me, you will be my best friend. I will treat you differently."
The young girl sat down on a rock for a moment to rest and think things over. She looked at the beautiful markings on the snake and she had to admit he was the most beautiful snake she had ever seen.
Suddenly, she said, "I believe you. I will save you. All living things deserve to be treated with kindness."
She then reached over, put the snake gently under her coat and continued toward her grandmother's house.
Within a moment, she felt a sharp pain in her side. The snake had bitten her!
"How could you do this to me?" she cried. "You promised that you would not bite me, and I trusted you!"
"You knew what I was when you picked me up," he hissed as he slithered away.
I saw all the bad things but he he seemed so eager to be better than from where he came. Now he has slithered off to bite another
Excellent example
True
Great story
Wow!! Such a compelling story!!!
This is the dynamic between my mother and father. She’s dedicated her entire life to helping him and pleasing him and it’s never enough. She’s taken his side when I went no contact after his final straw insane behavior against my husband, so now I have zero contact with my family. He isolated her from her family, I’m an only child. So now it is the two of them all alone. And they are in late 70s and I am the villain. It is so supremely sad.
You are not the only orphan on here for sure, I have two living siblings that are worthless creatures and parents are gone now. Mom was a trip and dad let her do it.
In the end you are so much better off now, Don't be sad, you had no choice and nothing you could fix or do about it.
I am sorry for that, I think it is really though and sad once you probably love them even to they are not able to love you back. I couldn't do zero contact, it was so hard and I decide to do gray rock.
I’m so sorry to hear this. I hope that you heal & that your Mother gets help.
Kinda same here. I know I'm better off, but it's sad.
This is my story
I knew something was off as soon as I moved out with him. He was sullen, distant, sad. He felt used, abused, taken for granted. "Nice guys finish last" he said. 16 years later we were still not achieving the dream I thought we had dreamed together. I had achieved everything I had set out for. I had a career, a child , a home, stability , a social life. He was recluse, closed off, unapproachable, angry and arrogant. He hadn't achieved anything. He had lost all his friends, he was without a job, we didnt see his family, we barely spoke. And somehow, it wasn't his fault, and he couldn't be happy. He wasn't appreciated. A retail job, or anything that paid less than his worth was beneath him. His friends had crossed him somehow. His family, he avoided. My family he fought with and belittled behind their back and did so as if he was doing me some kind of favour. As if he was sticking up for me. Every argument about unfinished projects, failure to do small tasks, about money, trips or events turned into a poor me session that I was expected to heal him from. When I stopped participating in consoling him and asked him to seek professional help I was called cold. He would push my buttons, twist my words until I had emotional outbursts and became defensive. He went there all the time. So I felt like I was the bad guy and he could act beaten and excuse himself from responsibilities, because he was too sad, too upset. It wasn't until I felt ashamed of my own behaviour that I finally told him to leave and meant it.
They way you described him… why did you even become attracted to him then
Man , this sounds like my ex who was a female. She was estranged from her family.
Never ever trust a "nice guy". Those ones will suck you dry.
Every time I see one of Dr Ramani's videos, I'm sad I didn't find her 10 years ago. She could have saved me the biggest pain and heartbreak of my life. My ex was exactly like this and I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. His lack of a materialistic lifestyle was actually a cover for his inability to even balance a checkbook, much less have any kind of financial responsibility. It quickly turned into a way to control everything I did, from how long I left the lights on, how many days a week I would do laundry or vacuum...even down to what kind of cheese or bread I bought. It was a horrible time in my life when it ended, but I'm also grateful for the lessons.
I am speechless. This is the story of my last relationship. And it is exactly because it feels like true intimacy that this kind of love bombing is not suspect at all. He did care at the beginning, he listened, he made an effort for me and anticipated my needs. It did not feel too good to be true - it felt exactly how a normal relationship should. Until the mask fell off, and my head started spinning.
And of course, you are a "rescuer" if you were raised in a narcissistic family system with vulnerable narcissists who made you responsible for their feelings and other aspects of their lives. Thus, this is the only way your system can understand connecting to anybody - by you attending to their needs, and abandoning yours.
This! All of this!
My son is a rescuer and this is how he got sucked into the relationship he's in now. The other love bomb technique she used was her constant need for contact. She would face time with him every waking moment that they couldn't be together. She is the pure definition of a vulnerable narcissist.
He needs to get out now before it’s too late. Run 🏃♀️
@@bee12355 To do that, he needs to understand what he is dealing with. Otherwise, he is still really vulnerable to her « charms ».
They can be quite seductive!! That’s how a former friend of mine lost her father to divorce! He, a minister and rescuer, got seduced and eventually had an affair by a vulnerable narcissist who was going through “trauma”. It’s the most vicious kind because he would defend his behavior and make his wife feel guilty in the name of “rescuing” this poor soul…
I started going to Therapy this year because of their relationship. I have been rescuing my son his entire life and recognize that I am a big part why he fell into her trap. The worst part is that she has isolated him from all of his friends, mostly because they don't want to be around her. She actually told him to cut off contact with me because I'm the toxic one. I'm trying to moved toward indifference now but it's very hard.
My husband goes all blamey if I did not respond to his messages or forget my cell at home 🙄 I am supposed to take all his calls, read all his messages and respond to them ASAP. He is a skillful manipulator. "I am making you tea! Which one do you want?" - while I am shopping, going for a walk or exercise outside. Seems like love, right? Or rather his way of controlling me. It took me years to recognize the difference.
My mother is a vulnerable narcissist, so I was programmed from birth. I never really chose my friends. They always chose me, until I woke up. At the end of all that, it's so painful to see, all your longest friendships were actually competitions. 😔
It's taken much work, but I'm free to be who I was born to be now. I've released 60lbs from my physical body. I'm able to trust myself to honor my boundaries. I trust myself to never be anyone's fuel again. I love you all! Never ever quit before the miracles! Your next breakthrough could be today!
Why do you say your early friendships turned out to actually be competitions?I suspect my mother displays a few more vulnerable narcissist traits than I'd like, and I've been working to identify/correct competitive trends in my early friendships... Definitely would appreciate your thoughts.
@@gumbo45100 my mother devalued me to the point that I was a leaf blowing in the wind, looking for love. Problem is, my definition of love was wrong because my mother modeled it wrong. She abused me in every way and called it love. Of course I looked for that love/hate going forward. I'm 45 now. I now know what she is and no longer befriend people like her. I now recoil from these demons. Once I allowed myself to see the truth, that most of my friends were secretly hating me and competing with me, just like she always did. I don't enjoy competing like that. I prefer the basketball court, lol. But I'm so beyond tired of competing in these competitions that I never signed up for, and am unaware I'm participating in, until I accidentally win and some"friend" gets narcissistic injury.... hope that made sense.
As someone who just realized at 37 that his mother was a convert narcissist all along, but never wanted to see it before, your story resonates with me and to hear you are so far down the road of self love recovery made my day. Thanks for sharing, all the best, and I love you too.
@@humanityhealthyself4430 It's like a horror movie. You escape the bad upbringing into what you think is a safe new chosen family, only to discover they're soul-suckers too!
I held onto the last narc friend for far too long, in part because I hated what it would "say about me" if I had no lifelong friends anymore and was truly alone in the world.
Turns out it says I love myself and am worth standing up for! ❤🤩
You're so right:
*"Never ever quit before the miracles!"*
🌈🌿😃💐❤🍀
❤❤❤❤❤
This is my story! Help with a job, give them a place to stay, give them transportation until the big personality reveal a year later. Thank you Dr Ramani for helping this rescuer understand what happened, how to avoid a future trap - and do some personal work as well.
This is exactly it!! From day one. I could only see the potential in him. I thought he might grow out of it at some point and finally see the world wasn’t so bad. It went from one tragedy to the next for 12 years so I never felt like it was the right time to speak up for myself. Until he finally cheated and left. I feel like this is so close to bpd it’s hard to tell the difference. You literally feel guilty for wanting to leave this fragile child like person. At the end you learn they are not as vulnerable as you think. And they will certainly have 0 empathy for you.
The last two sentences hit me hard, so true...
I am so glad you mentioned the bpd confusion. I am currently trying to heal from a hurtful break-up. Spending time trying to learn from what harm I caused/improve imperfections and also trying to identify the red-flags, mistreatment I also conveniently ignored in the name of “love”. I feel like there was some covert mental abuse and narcissism in my last relationship but then I start to wonder if I am just playing the victim. It’s gotten messy because I also do identify with the symptoms of bpd. It can be so difficult to distinguish the two. When it comes to mental health it seems virtually impossible to decipher what came first the chicken or the egg. I do think as a result it can be a little of both. Practicing intuition and listening versus being overwhelmed by those feelings helps make the line a tad bit clearer. Thanks for your comment.
@@megoriold4166 Mine gave me a book about bpd, indicating I could have it. Now two years and one therapy after I can tell you, that he was the one oscillating between covert narcissm and bpd. Both disorders have quite a few similiarities.
He kind of transferred it to me by the time while I was actually trapped in a ptsd. But I was not never diagnosed with bpd! So the relationship to such a person make you feel like having bpd. Maybe you also act the way, but it's induced to you. This was at least my own experience. What you truly get from those kind of relationships is a ptsd.
Yes all of the tragedies!! It took me a year and a half to realize those tragedies were being milked to keep me quiet about and excuse their bad behavior. That is, if the tragedies all happened. I'm still not sure. It took another year of me calling them out on inconsistencies and getting all the rage, victim playing, blame shifting and gaslighting for the blinders to come off, and another year after that for me to end the relationship. I was trying to be thoughtful and allow them to have as much potential of landing on their feet as possible. They repaid me by trying to destroy my reputation. They didn't succeed. But I do worry that I will be more skeptical of people who need my empathy as a result of this experience.
Its called the narcissistic pityplay, I was in the same mess for 4 years before I went fully no contact. Expect them to come back and try to hoover years later aswell. Narcissism and BPD is *very* similar so you made a good observation there, we get good at these things from self educating online.
With a grandiose narcissist, they keep you wanting and coming back for more….you can’t get enough. With the vulnerable narcissist, you feel drained and exhausted, and can’t wait to leave them to recharge your soul. You literally feel like you’ve had the life sucked out of you, but keep coming back to help them because of your empathy.
I had never heard of a covert "vulnerable" narcissist until I had been divorced from my ex-husband for 2 years. I was married to him for 40 years and just thought he was immature and stupid! I only knew about the overt type of narcissist, and he definitely wasn't that. He was always too humble. He was always such a penny pincher. He was afraid of money and would say things like, "Why do we have to buy birthday presents for the kids?", or, "Why do we have to buy Christmas presents for the kids?". He would always take my gifts back to get the money. I hardly ever got anything from him, and if I did, it would be so random and thoughtless. He worked 7 days a week at his business, and we barely ever made ends meet. He would let the bills pile up and wouldn't pay them until the utilities were going to be shut off, or something just as drastic. We had 5 children together, but I had to be father and mother to them. He just wanted to be their "friend". My kids, as they got older and where tired of him always telling them "No!" for anything and everything, would say that he was so tight, you couldn't run a credit card through his butt cheeks! I eventually became the breadwinner while he played tennis every day with a group of old retired guys, ones he knew he would look good playing against because he was much younger than them.
He played a lot of mind games over the years. I thought this to be due to immaturity. I divorced him because I was tired of his games and him punishing me if I didn't respond the way he had planned, and he ALWAYS had a plan. He would say " If you would have sex with me every day, I would be happy!" I realized that he didn't care about my happiness, only his own. He would say things to belittle me. Early in our marriage, after giving birth to two children back-to-back 1 year apart, he told me I was fat! I only weighed 130lbs at the time, and I'm 5'-7" tall!! I'd put a total of10lbs on after my pregnancies and he was disgusted by me. I was only 23 at the time.
I can now clearly see his type of "love bombing" because we would talk long into the night, laugh, feel wonderful, and then I'd realize that he was just mining me. He had very little personality of his own, but he seemed to blossom because as he took from me, and I began to lose myself esteem and my sense of myself, he seemed to become more friendly with people and enjoyed their attention. It was like we'd traded personalities. I lost my power and he seemed to gain power. It was very strange. In my mid 40's I seemed to have made the decision that I could say and do whatever I pleased, and I began to put it into action. He hated that version of me! By the time I hit 60, I was done! I'd put all of my energy into our marriage and family, and he had put in enough effort to pretend that it was meaningful. Being the only person in your marriage sucked but coming to that realization was so freeing! So, I divorced him and haven't looked back. I just feel sorry for his next victim. When the kids mention that he has a new victim, I always think to myself, "BUYER BEWARE!" It's now 5 years later and I'm doing great, and my children are doing great. They hardly want anything to do with him by their own choices. His visits are always "mercy" visits because it's always about something or someone else and not them. Their ages are 25 to 43, so the divorce happened when they were all adults. Thank you for listening. FREEDOM FEELS GOOD!!!
They dont want people draining THEIR supply the irony huh?
good for you finding yourself again!
I swear! You married my husband's identical twin right down to the everyday sex! Which he didn't get because I'm just not made that way.
Sounds horrific. Good for you!
"Yet I had not forgotten his faults…He was proud, sardonic, harsh to inferiority of every description…He was moody, too…But I believe that his moodiness, his harshness, and his former faults of morality…had their source in some cruel cross of fate. I believed he was naturally a man of better tendencies…I thought there were excellent materials in him, though, for the present, they hung together somewhat spoiled and tangled." Jane Eyre 👀
I dated a guy who texted me incessantly every day and night. His ex wife abused him for 6 years, all his ex are psychos or cheaters. His family is so poor, his cat died, his mom died, his brothers are abusers, his boss picked on him, he is on depression med, has anxiety disorder, has to drink a lot to feel better. My heart sunk when I heard his stories. I helped him out in any way I could. After 6 months, he moved far away with his “female best friend” and won’t allow me to visit him. This video answered all my questions and solved the puzzles! Thank you Dr. Ramani! ❤️
Sounds like a perpetual victim.
@@mandymore5741 absolutely!
This is literally how every relationship has started for me, and I can say firsthand that these type of relationships are definitely not easy to walk away from.
It’s like an addiction. It’s the soul tie you form with them
My covert narc BF plays on my heart and says we have a “connection”. Oh we sure do, but it’s up to me to cut that connection. It’s slowly coming. 🙏
@@bee12355 yes, exactly... it's letting go of the relationship you thought you had with them
@@MC-cg9xn sending you lots of love, I know how hard that is!
I thought he was my soulmate when we first started dating. We wanted the same things, at least so I thought. I didn’t know he was just mirroring me.
After a 20 year friendship with a vulnerable narcissist and the 2 years of recovering from the abuse, one thing i see so clearly is how they manipulated the narrative of any conflict to look like the victim. This happened right off the bat as 11 year old's. I didn't want to be her friend but then "those girls stopped being my friends so i have no one to come to my bday party" so i went, it was how she got me to hang out with her the first time. This repeated over and over in a million different ways and it wasn't until i had serious crisis of my own that i saw these problems as fake. I had a family death, traumatic head injury and amputation in a week but somehow the biggest crisis was a guy she wanted to date that wasn't treating her right? Life sure is strange.
At 11 she was already a narc? How horrible and sad that this personality disorder can set in so early in children…
I am recovering from my toxic relationship - and I am seeing his imprint on my young kids, hoping to mitigate some of these damaging effects so that they don‘t grow up with narcissism/codependency.
A vulnerable narcissist (i.e. perpetual victim) often has an entire staff of rescuers. These rescuers may not necessarily know about each other. They think they are the only person helping the narc. Meanwhile, the narc rotates the rescuers who work in shifts. One takes care of the kids, another one gives the narc a ride, a third one fixes the house. The list of chores and needs is endless! While the rescuers labor, the narc may get her nails done, go to a wedding party, and never, ever reveal she actually has a good chunk of money hidden away.
🎯
Omg!! You're a seer!!😮..😂😂😂
Invite them all to a surprise party for the N about 2 hrs prior so they can all talk to each other🎉🎉😂😂.
NOW ITS A PARTY!
After learning with you I realized that I'm the fixer, the wanting to make people feel better, rescue them, celebrate them so I fall for the vulnerable narcissists easily. After learning with you, I can catch myself in this pattern and not fall for it. I'm still working on it though. Being aware of our vulnerabilities is crucial to avoid getting into a narcissistic relationship. They behave exactly as you describe it, everything. Also, everytime I hear the "stupid" word is a red flag💔
Thank you Dr. Ramani, this is very much helpful💖💖💖
The vulnerable narc I last had a relationship with 'made me feel' very special. The relationship felt deep and meaningful. I truly thought I'd met a soul mate. I thought 'this guy actually sees me, knows me'. Of course it didn't last long. He went from apparently seeing me to making me feel invisible.🙄 I then spent the rest of the time trying to get him to see me again until I decided it was toxic and ended it. I gave him everything I had, physically and emotionally (I am a rescuer 🤦♀️) and he gave nothing back. He still thinks what we had was special. He's in a fantasy world..!
This is my experience. I do see my father has more of the contempt and negativity with entitlement to be served as most people are taking away from the video. But your description is my experience with my not really BF. I'm taken but he was always single. I think the difference between authenticity is the durability of a trait. If you cannot remain stable it was a shallow mirage. Fantasy is a huge coping mechanism for a monster of insecurity lurking in their system. It's been said, difference between whether an abused or neglected child becomes a narcissist or a codependent is their resilience. The more resilient become codependent but the more fragile become narcissistic. Now, that's only in the cases of dysfunction but it still seems accurate.
Same happened to me. I thought I had met the most loving, kind, romantic guy ever.
The minute he got comfortable in the relationship ( took one year for me to present him to my children), the put downs started.
Yes! In the love bombing stage they make you feel so unique because they “feel seen finally” but after a while the neglect sets in you are basically invisible and when you bring up your concerns, you’re a nag like everyone else ruining their existence. So spot on.
@@KoreaMojo Interesting 🤔
@@roxanne83 😔
I was lonely & "advertised myself" (created a profile) on a dating site... BIG MISTAKE! He said he was a quiet person & liked to listen... He acted nerdy - so I thought he was an intelligent introvert. I swear he was taking notes for later exploitation, manipulation & trauma bonding/grooming! It was my 1st adult experience with a (covert) NARCISSIST & I AM ON A MISSION to be sure it is my last! Empaths deserve SO MUCH MORE than the breadcrumbing of ANY NARCISSIST! WE DESERVE RECIPROCITY in our relationships with others. I didn't know my worth going into this relationship, but learned WHO I AM/"WHAT I BRING" TO A RELATIONSHIP dearly/THE HARD WAY coming out of it! Thank you God! Thank you Jesus! ❤️🙏❤️
Lorraine A,You deserve better 🙏
Reciprocity is my relationship litmus test. In more naive days, I believed it was "keeping score," but now I realize it works well to establish healthy boundaries for relationships and assures I don't get too far downstream before realizing it's unhealthy
Lorraine, it sounds like I had a similar experience. I too am thankful for the lessons and I'm much more secure in myself and setting boundaries after working through all the damage he caused.
Sounds like an experience I had. Online dating and all. I’m so sorry that happened to you. What’s really difficult is no one around you can truly understand what you are going through unless it’s happened to them. But the positive here is we can let it make us better people and learn from it.
👍🏽
I've fallen way too many times to love bombing narcs. It's late in life but it will never happen again thanks to you, Dr. Ramani. I really don't know what I'd do without you. I can't thank you enough.
I wish I could travel back in time 27 years ago and play THIS video to myself. You just described the beginning of my odyssey to a T.
You and me BOTH!!!!
Yes, not a romantic relationship but definitely relate to this. They were never satisfied and definitely a one way street, even when I experienced a tragedy, they made it all about them. I stepped away years ago, life is calm, easy and energizing😊 thankyou so much for being so brilliant x
“When I experienced tragedy, they made it about them.” My brother took his life, and I dropped to the garage floor with the news. My narc-simply walked around me and unloaded groceries. And he was a pastor-where a death in the congregation trumped everything!
Same here
They are attention seekers. Always need admiration
That’s so terrible! CAn relate! Happened to me. Sorry 😞
On my way home after finding my dad deceased in his home. My soon to be but not soon enough Full Fledged Covert ex husband continued to dose off when I was telling him the details of that life changing moment but not of course before saying "if your dad had any guns I would like to have one" 😳 My husband is a gun enthusiast. But apparently that was more important than comforting me.
Vurnerably narcissistic people:
1. Guilt-light. Gaslighting you into feeling guilty for something that never happened.
2. 'Never' have money, whenever it suits them. Going to the pub with them, means you're paying.
3. Triangulate, by letting you know how much nicer someone else is, or by complaining to their friends about how you wouldn't cook for them, so now they're starving.
4. Might punish you, by suddenly doing worse whenever you're trying to lay down some kind of boundary with them. Are you trying to look for work? Now they're suddenly in a lot of anguish of some sort.
5. Might shun conventional medicine like the plauge, because if they could get on some kind of anti-depressant medication, their suffering wouldn't be unique.
6. They tend to give a lot of bad advice, or to play into your own insecurities, by 'sharing' their own experience.
'I wouldn't try losing weight if I were you, I've tried for fifteen years, and if I can't, then it's definitely too hard for you.'
7. You can definitely be too intelligent, too good looking, or too good at something for your own best. According to them.
Delivered a pretty damn good speech? It caused them to get so anxious they ended up vomiting.
8. They might have the worst hygiene ever, but make you feel incredibly guilty for not wanting to have sex with them because of it.
9. They can break stuff, as a way of letting people know that they're very unhappy that they can't have everything their way.
10. Are two-faced. They can be trying to gain your trust, only to fish for blackmail material to use against you.
11. They love to gossip. Especially about how terrible people are being to them. They might even go to the lengths of filing slanderous police reports.
12. They can 'brag' about how fucked up they are. Getting the drunkest/highest is a competition. You're sad, well now let's 'cheer you up' (project their substance use disorder onto you).
13. Accuse other people of faking their disability/chronic illness/mental health problems.
14. If one of their friends doesn't seem to be doing well, they can talk trash about them to other people, and accuse them of just doing it for attention.
15. They're complaining about how broke they are, but it's always due to their own bad decisions. They're poor, becasue they spent all of their money on a shopping spree/going to the pub.
16. They get incredibly envious of everyone who's doing better than them. They might even try to convince other people that this person isn't as talented as people think they are.
17. They are the only ones with good taste. Do you like the wrong band/video game/TV-series? You're a bad person/they now need to re-educate you.
18. They feel victimised by misunderstandings. It's always your fault, whenever they misinterpret something, or just assume something to be the case.
19. They are incredibly easy to offend, and quite offensive, at the same time. They play it tough, but they definitely can't take it. Whatever they say and do is just a joke, but you might as well make them cry for 'bullying' them.
20. They blame others for their own problems. You're the reason why I'm feeling like shit now.
This is very accurate to my situation. I am a rescuer and a helper type. She has had a rough childhood in which she ties her current state of anxiety and use of anxiety medication to. I felt deeply connected and compassion for her was at the highest level. During the devaluation phase I made every excuse in support of her and tried to explain away certain behaviors as related to her past. Even though I noticed several instances of gaslighting I only was aware of grandiose narcissism so I ruled her out as a narcissist. Boy was I wrong because in the Discard phase I’m now legally fighting for my life. Things I shared have been weaponized. Small events have been blown way out of proportion and some completely fabricated. The smear campaign is unreal. I’m devastated, I’m confused but I never could have imagined that as much attention love and catering as I’ve shown her, she could turn as vicious as she has just because I caught HER cheating. I was even willing to except it and work it out and signed up for a relationship coach. Now I’m aware of Vulnerable narcissism. I’m still in pain but at least aware. Thank you Dr. Ramani. Your videos and others are helping me understand who I was with for the last 3 years. Now I have to heal.
I’m sorry. I understand how that feels. Do you feel betrayed when it happened? Or abandoned at all?
My ex-husband. I adored him for his vulnerability and undercurrent strength and uniqueness . Took many painful years to see that his vulnerability was mainly resentment and his seemingly inner treasure was shallow and treacherous and altogether a construction of lies.
I was engaged to who I think is a vulnerable narcissist… or BPD ill never know. Very sensitive and emotional. Picks at skin..reported stress eating. Super helpful suggestion for all of us: create a voice memo upon interaction after a date. I created one intuitively after our first date so I can analyze him logically without being emotional. In my memo I noted his insecure walk, complaining about how hard he works and everyone abuses his hard work, and how his family adores his older brother and he’s basically ignored. I think I felt deep sympathy for him and went on to say yes (even though it was too fast for me and HE KNEW and still refused to slow down for me even though I had told him I had a tough Dad). MY LESSON LEARNED: make a voice memo after a date. assess my intuition. then proceed.
Also my lovely empathetic folks my sister shared: “find a partner NOT a project” 💖
Thank you
I still wonder that myself, I don't know what he is, but it doesn't matter, what matters is what I learned from this relationship. and what NOT to do in future relationships.
Great idea!
It took me 5 years to realize what I was going through. The creature drained me... Now my mission is to rescue myself not others!🙏🏿💛
You have just explained perfectly the narc that tried to ruin my life.
This is brilliant. A lot of African-American women are experiencing this. The failure to launch prevalent among our counterparts is leading to a lot of jealousy, resentment and violence against women. The femicide rates among us is extremely high, with one of us being killed every 5-6 hours in a day.
My ex was a VN. All his exes were crazy, his parents loved his brother more, rich people were to blame, his boss wanted to get him fired, the teachers hated him, everyone bullied him… etc etc and so on. So basically the whole world was against him or so he loved to declare.
Best decision you can make as an empath: NEVER ever again save, rescue, give free or discounted resources like a place to live, a car, phone, etc.
It’s is NOT your job to BABYSIT emotionally or financially another capable adult. If an adult can’t take care of their basic needs, walk away.
Let them struggle. Let them figure it out. Don’t rob them of the opportunity to grow the F up and get their own life together.
Get your own life together and let others do the same for theirs. Save your own self. That’s enough of a project.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼lesson learned
This is the best advise!
Thank you, applicable for both parties, probably both he empathy and the covert narcissists
Any exceptions… like a partner suffering a breakdown ?
@@heartspacerelaxations6924 I would not. I learned the hard way. A yr after a discard an ex friend reached out to me saying she was suicidal. She needed a place to stay. It was intolerable and told her she had to leave after 2 months. I think she played up being suicidal to get free room and board. She wanted to stay for 6 months. Ya no. It was really stupid for me to take in a supposedly suicidal ex friend.
My vulnerable narc would like to tell “no one would ever love me again like he did”.
I was in a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist for a year and a half. it was the worst time in my life; everything Dr. Ramani said here is spot on. I'm still trying to work out my trauma from that relationship. I do appreciate this video because it is validating and lets me know I'm not crazy and not alone.
Hey Wesley, may I ask you how much time you working on it now? I spend one year in such a relationship and now 1,25 yrs on recovery...
Love-bombing : yes, the heart-rending backstory : abusive, unsupportive parents, deprived of material goods and money, studying hard to get to university in order to escape childhood home and on and on and on until eventually YOU become part of their awful drama that they will go on to complain about to someone else!
How is that lovebombing? There's nothing loving going on here. If if can be used as a form to pull your heart strings to feel sorry for them, possible but there's no way they are seducing you or loving you.
People share their hard life stories on tv, RUclips, that's even a way to get donations but they are not love bombing.
Dr. Ramani is completely off in this one.
Many of the so called empaths have the same abuse and deprivation backstory. We see people here on comments sharing their sobbing stories of being in narcissistic abusive relationships and this is not the only channel they must be doing it.
I had this exactly same backstory and many times i have to talk about it when i don't want because many people assume everyone had same opportunities, had loving parents, paid school and allowance to thrive.
As the saying goes "it's easy to hit a home run when you start from the third base".
Those are the same people who donate to the starving children in Yemen but won't give a can of baby formula for their single mother neighbor "because they had opportunities and did bad choices". Actually donating to Yemen makes you feel good about yourself and you can even brag about it to others but not you won't even look to the homeless person you see begging everyday.
In this example I see the "rescuer" as the narcissist person because they were the ones approaching the person who was indulging in their own misery and decided that person would give them unconditional attention. Rescuer syndrome is pretty much npd grandiose, "I'm the only one who can save this person and they will have eternal gratitude for me and love me".
*"They will share that they're really good at doing something, that they're expert at something, or they're experienced with doing this or doing that, but that they've never had any success, or never really made a lot of money, or never managed to finish school, or never pursued a certain career".*
Oh. My. God. All of this. Literally every single thing of these. You just described my ex. I was always confused about him, how he had certain traits I had seen in other narcissists that had previously been in my life, but he didn't really seem to tick all the boxes of narcissism at the same time.
This was the piece I was missing, and all the pieces seem to fall into place now. Thank you so much for your videos, Dr. Ramani, you are a blessing to all of us survivors of narcissistic abuse
I'm so glad people are being educated about this. It took me soooo long to catch on, and I'm by no means a stupid person. I was quite literally addicted to the relationship, mostly because of the intensity of the "psedu-intimacy" that I thought was real. It all started at one of the most vulnerable moments in my life, so the trauma-bonding was also severe. What I still can't wrap my head around is this: Are all of these behaviors fully conscious acts of malicious intent strategically woven together for a devious and self-serving purpose? Or are these individuals so supremely self-absorbed and genuinely entitled (in a way that I just can't comprehend) that they lack the ability to see damage they do?
Both.
I’m a vulnerable narcissist and I’m just unsure of myself and don’t know what I want. I been in a string of relationships since I was 14, 5 different relationships now 27. I’ve always felt like I had great potential but failed to achieve much after many many failures. Life HAS never been fair to me. I’m good at a few things and kind of just gave up. I’m starting all over again after my last failed relationship which I ruined. I have so much humility and I wear my heart on my sleeves, I came from a bad background but try not to talk about it too often. At the time with my previous relationship I honestly just felt on auto pilot. I’m mostly just depressed, never had time to figure myself out so here goes nothing.
@@igorpisarev1898 why do I feel like we need to be friends lol
@@igorpisarev1898 you sound exactly like my ex
@@igorpisarev1898 I believe you. I know that everyone deserves to be loved the way they are. And this might sound hard to believe, but your heart is good. If you ever need someone to talk to, I'm always here. If not, that's okay too. 💛
Hi Dr. Ramani, Thank you for caring so much to teach us. Every man I was ever with was no good. Now I think everyone is this way. I am teaching myself to move on alone.
I am seriously addicted to your content!! Thank you!!my ex is a Vulnerable Narcissist.... you honestly hit the nail on the head... I felt like the one who will 'stand by him' and not abandon him....I am quite independent financially so I just got a sense that it was becoming a 'problem', he was getting resentful about this but never said anything directly....he devalued my career and when discarded he once told me 'you are too independent to feel hurt'.... what an odd thing to say to someone. That relationship cut me deep.... 11 months on Im still healing.... the love bombing phase was so intense, the way he opened up about what 'struggles' he faced in the past....I honestly thought it was real.....
Me too! It’s very helpful!
Me too....
You’re not alone!!! My BF does this to me. I just have to cut ties with him, but not tell him, just do it.
And to think, I felt I was the only person dealing with someone like this.
We all believed it was real! Amazing sex with who we thought was the perfect person!
It took 5 years for relationship to end, I had no idea what I was in until I found Dr. Ramani's videos. It took losing my brother to find out that the person I was dating could not be there for me, always being the solid foundation, being supporting, the cook, the cleaner, the emotional validator, and when it finally came to my turn to be the one who needed the support I got nothing, and the feeling of dread set in that I was completely alone, that this person I loved so deeply, it was all a lie, but also a lie I continued to tell myself.
After a year of hard emotional work, and healing, Ive met a new person, someone with empathy and kindness, and new layers are beginning to arise, it feels unusual to receive love, this is just new programming that needs to be learned on my part.
Anyone going through the grief of a narcissistic relationship ending, it may feel awful but it'll be the best thing for your growth, health, and understanding of the world. Use the grief to grow and learn about unconscious aspects of your personality, that way when the healing comes your roots will be deep and your light will be bright
LOVE to all going through suffering
Sorry for your loss.. Feeling exactly the same. It only took me loosing a close relative to finally realize that my partner was not capable of being there for me. Ever. He even tried to pull the blanket on his side at this period acting “sick” to make me come to his place and take care of him while I was completely devastated.
We should all be grateful to them for teaching us a lesson on what to avoid in relationship.
Stay strong!
Uplifting comment.
I’m so glad you found life and (sounds like) love!!!
I was aware but ignored all the times he just did not care about me, my struggles, my pain. But he did come to my rescue when I was so depressed I couldn’t find another way, when I decided I needed to die. I’m still trying to figure out how it happened, how I wound up on a cycle - about 4 weeks - of feeling hopeful, industrious, moving forward, making plans, to anger and frustration, to catatonic and/or nonstop crying and mulling over the space I do not deserve to take up on this planet. Months of this, worse and worse and worse. Lol, he called me a narcissist so I went looking for the evidence - and found him! Cycle broken, depression gone, time for a new plan.
@@ambergerbuns You were trauma bonded; One of their favorite manipulation techniques! I too, in the end, became suicidal (he knew I was a SUICIDE SURVIVOR from a few years prior & he led me back into HIS black hole)!
God blesses you & your children! ❤️🙏❤️
@@lorrainea6177 it just got so much darker. A friend called me last week, someone I haven’t spoken to in months. She had noticed my husband’s fb posts were getting scary and wanted to check on me. This past winter when I was begging again to go to rehab or be checked into psych ward - something, anything, because I was out of options but the only thing left would traumatize my children forever, and he was again giving me all the reasons he wish I could go but it just wasn’t possible, I did something weird and reached out to the few people I still knew around the country (I do not know anyone local) for help. I vaguely remember a stern pep talk from her, not helpful but nice to hear her voice, and that was it. Well, she calls me out of the blue, comments on the angry/pitiful fb activity, and then tells me that she called him after we spoke last winter. She said she was worried about me, and would do anything to help (childcare was the big obstacle to my going away, and she offered to take that on, being a mom of 4 herself with older kids, she was a perfect emergency care provider in this situation. She said she was willing to travel across three states, offered up all the possible scenarios, then started making an argument for why it is important to help, why didn’t he want to help, etc. She said he got downright hostile and basically told her to F off.
…………………..
I don’t think I’m done processing this gem yet. I’m in shock, but not totally surprised. Did he want me to die? It would be amazing street cred! His first wife passed away, and that was what he led with when we met. It’s one of his favorite things about himself, tbh. Wtf???? I have preschoolers! How is this not criminal? Meanwhile I’m just gray/yellow rocking in perpetuity until I can find an out. Hard to do when he controls the finances, and my every movement lately. Grrrrrr!
I waffle between seeing a broken child and feeling genuinely sad and angry that a baby was denied love, and seeing a monster, an evil thing to be feared, requiring the most careful approach as with an explosive.
I’m sorry, that was a lot. I need to find some friends 😅😟
The problem is I really DO pity him. 😢 He didnt choose his parents, his childhood, a lot of it. I know he's empty and broken deep down.
True, but trauma doesn’t give us licence to treat others badly. Many trauma survivors do their own recovery work.
What sucks is, not only do we naturally empathize with vulnerable narcissists, they also take advantage of our empathy. They deliberately make you feel sorry for them so that you will forgive them for their abuse, control, etc. It becomes this internalized defense mechanism that when you're about to realize how abusive they are, you tell yourself "but oh, it's so sad, their childhood was so horrible, neglectful, etc., maybe I just need to give them another chance, love them some more, understand them deeper", and then you get stuck in an abusive cycle, losing more and more of yourself, while they reap the benefits. At the same time, sticking around and supplying them with narcissistic supply becomes a way of enabling their ways, of never looking inwards, of never changing. Sometimes the best you can do for them is to leave. (Not that I believe they can change. They can't. But setting boundaries is healthy.)
It went almost exactly like this for me. Except I started to express that the relationship was one-sided and first he apologized and said that's not his intention. When that didn't change I said it again and again and each time he said I was attacking him. I made the mistake of telling him he seemed to be a vulnerable narcissist (oops), and I stopped talking to him after he told me that I was the narcissist, that I wasn't feminine enough for him, and that j hated men. It's been a very difficult healing period, I miss him a lot lately, but this video bolstered me. I really needed it as I'll be seeing him on Zoom for a group work thing today, we haven't seen each other or spoken to each other since June and I'm feeling a lot of anxiety about it. This validation of my experience makes me feel more equipped to get through the session tonight. Thank you!
I have had such a similar experience! I was also told when I wouldn't "serve" him ecatlybas he wanted that I wasn't feminine enough, that I hated men, that I compared him to my dad, etc.... All allusions to my own past. Things I had worked hard to heal from and was actively making sure it wasn't affecting our relationship. I was made to feel that just asking for basic human decency was "too much" for him and I was an emotional burden to him. Words which were echoed from my childhood. So it has been so hard to extricate the lies from the truth.
They can be very mean. It’s like Jekyll and Hyde.
mine also told me I hated men after I wouldn't recommit to the relationship even though it was so hard for me to stand my ground to this.. and also haven't seen him since June/july- and def wouldn't be able to do a video call that included him today so good luck and stay strong, maybe try to avoid any direct communication? he also called me the things I suggested he might be when I suggested therapy (thought I was helping at the time) .. crazy how so many situations are exact similar. sending strength 💪
You will get through this, you are stronger and wiser than you think.
My vulnerable narcissist father accused me of hating men! He is extremely misogynistic as is my entire family, so I chalked it up to projection…
Watching you from Italy, everything is so correct... I divorced from my husband years and years ago, yet it took me ages to realize that the relationship was toxic because he was a pathological narcissist, I was too young. Now that we have more tools to analyze these patterns it's easier to see the red flags, but 30 years ago, whoa, it was an uncharted territory. I think he started in a way like a vulnerable narcissist and ended up like a real black hole of almost undetectable violence, so subtle yet so mean. I found out that my surviving technique is now called the grey stone, but I had to find it all on my own. Sometimes I wish I could tell this story for hours to someone who "knows" what surviving a narcissistic abuse means. And I say "survive" and not "heal" on purpose, because I think that healing from such a deep bruise never stops. It eventually leads to a growth, facing one's demons, accepting one's limits and boundaries, deep digging into one's unacceptable sides, but you'll carry those wounds with you forever. It's up to you to decide whether to make them trophies, tattoos, books to read or stories to tell, or just shut them up into a box of memories, but forgetting is not an option and shouldn't be. Yet, I think they undermine one's self confidence so much that recovering is a really hard task. Thank you for being so accurate in your analysis, Dr. Ramani.
i had a very similar happen to me I suffered the abuse of a narcist and done the hole truth teller gray rock thing but some of that evil ended up in me. it would come out when I was overcome with frustration (something i seen as my worse trait all my life) then the narcistic bullets would fly. the problem was this hurt my loved ones witch only made me feel worse when my sense's come back witch led to more frustration. I think in me it came form I just wanted to feel better and when you don't know why you feel so shit its so hard and defeating. but learning all this stuff has lifted my wee soul back up and it finally got to see some light and everything came so easy to see. the first thing i done was give her the same as we have both been hiding from the world for so long in pain but we got there are love is stronger than ever. best advice I can give is that you are great and you know because after all that pain your still standing. PS the words to the Elton John song I'm still standing is about that moment when it all comes to you and the freedom it brings
What you said really resonated with me. Only married for 2 years but knew him for 3 yrs before that. Now in the throes of divorce & I don’t really have anyone that can understand what I’ve gone through(that I care to share with). Most days I’ll think I’m doing fine then it hits me…all I’ve been through, just seems surreal. Wishing you the best!
Same here. Write your stories. Fill the book, empty your soul of the poison. Then meditate, dance and live. It helps the healing.
I remember him telling me early on that he was a “tortured soul”…totally ignored it thinking awe, poor guy. He would get mad/quiet/passive aggressive with me, and have temper tantrums if he felt I wasn’t giving him enough attention/touch/sex. Everything was his way or no way. Never wanted to watch movies I wanted to, eat at restaurants I suggested. I was easy going to everything but became exhausted/frequent headaches trying to appease him, forgetting about what I wanted/needed. In the height of the pandemic he was so angry about people wearing masks that it prevented us from going anywhere. He stated how stupid it was and how he didn’t want to be around all of these stupid people being brainwashed by government. He would always bring up really strange comments about things in his past relationships. It was like he was fishing for some kind of reaction from me. It was unsettling at times. When he started feeling my exhaustion and got irritated with my decrease in the validation/praise I was providing, he moved on to groom a new victim (while staying in our relationship), and then threw me to the curb like a piece of trash. I was in shock and despair. Two days prior to the cold discard, he called me an angel in his life that he couldn’t imagine making it without my support. Most horrible feeling… like a loved one has died. Thank you for your help to understand this disorder! I was only in this relationship for one year but feel so damaged. I can’t wait for your healing course! I have a great support group and have started daily daimoku chanting to help with anxiety. Have you ever heard of this kind of therapy? I find it so very helpful for trauma. xo
Uuugg the mask wearing sheep people arguments… never 👎 ever again
I was 9 months with a narcissist and feel so damaged. It's difficult to let go and know that none of that stuff was true. I am worthy!
Same story ! It’s a process but thankful to understand where it all comes from.
I can totally relate. I was devastated when he coldly discarded me. Only a week after he said the sweetest loving things. When I was ill and lost my father, he found a beter supplier for the praises he needed. Totally ghosted me, not explaining the break up. It's taken me 2 months to realise how much of my energy was drained by him.
I didn't know this vulnerable type narcissist existed, but in hindside I have encountered quite a few. Starting with my parents.
I wish you speedy recovery
I can definitely relate to your story. I was in a relationship with a vulnerable narcissist for 10 months and I feel completely defeated from being devalued, discard and ghosted. To make matters worse, we were living together and he decided to leave me last Friday while I was at work without any explanation.
Take your time to get to know people before allowing them into your heart space. Say no, and be ok with setting boundaries. U will learn who people are. They depend on us needing their validation
I think the “healing fantasy” from childhood plays such a huge part in caretaking nurturing behaviors in dysfunctional/toxic relationships especially with this type of dynamic too. I loved the chapter from Lindsay Gibson on “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” that talks about recovering internalizers who trauma bond with externalizers. Thank you for your spot on and needed content Dr. Ramani. 💞
@Esther I’m so sorry that you have had to go through these experiences too. 😣 ❤️🩹Thank you for the recommendation. I’ll definitely check it out.
“Recovering internalizers who trauma bond with externalizers” this is spot on! Picking up the book soon!
@@Caligirl.8630 Yes! It’s a life changer. I had to look up from the book and curse several times while reading it. Lol. I found it easier to read the book a chapter at a time to be able to process all the information emotionally and mentally, then followed by a workout after. There are a lot of hard truths in it but it’s also extremely empowering. 💞
@@TheHopefulExistentialist I will try that method, thanks! You know what they say, the truth will set you free but first it’ll piss you off. 😂
This whole ,,college is stupid“ thing was exactly what my covert narcissist did - this sounds exactly like my story
I can never thank dr ramani enough for saving my sanity.
An ex-boss of mine often said "stupid," but actually he was an utterly incompetent manager. He always said board members were stupid, his boss was stupid, coworkers were stupid, and subordinates were stupid. I got away from that workplace.
Same thing--And I teach post-secondary, so he was completely dismissive of my career. Thought college was a "racket"...
I was told that material posessions were shallow and pointless after I asked for a biro-drawn card and £1 gift for valentines day.. (I was trying to make it easy for him!). Boy did I get punished for that, I got accused of being a gold digger and week long silent treatment.
Apparently he was so talented and intelligent he should have been able to 'flip the board' on the game of life, but it was this nasty society being horrible to him and making him poor and ineffective...
It's amazing how striking and similar the patterns of vulnerable narcissism are once you start to see them.
I had an experience with a vulnerable narcist. I met him at a camp and he cried when I first met him. In my head told myself this is a red flag people usually don't open up this quickly. College started and I started seeing more of him we spent hours talking about our childhood and experiences but there was something off-putting with our interactions. At times I felt manipulated and unheard I was giving him my time and patience. Sometimes he literally would sit by himself knowing that I'd sit with him. I would distance myself because he unloaded on me like I was his therapist. (he knew I wanted to be a therapist) and didn't take into consideration my feeling. I was like his insecurity dump. I knew what was going on I knew it wasn't ok but I didn't know how to get out of it I felt like when he first met me he pegged me as an easy target. I felt bad for him his upbringing his constant need for validation but I know I can't be the one to give it to him because it is mentally draining on me.
That "mentally drained" feeling is an excellent indicator in my opinion. With other narcissists I get the "walking on eggshells" feeling, after a conversation with a VN it takes me days to recover, to get my own emotional equilibrium back.
The covert narcissist’s love bomb looked exactly like what you outlined, Dr. Ramani. Thank you for this video. I have been questioning whether he was a narcissist. These relationships leave you feeling sucked dry, confused, and sad. At least, that’s how I am feeling. He discarded me a year and a half ago, but then hoovered me every couple of months. It was confusing and kept me stuck. The last hoover was three months ago. You think that once you know that they’re a narc, it will be easy to let go and heal. It’s not. I know that I can never take them back. I feel sad and I miss him or the fake person he presented to me. I’m working on moving on through self care, yoga, meditation, and doing things I used to enjoy, like, painting.
It sounds exactly like what I went through, was with a vulnerable narcissist for a year, 8 breakups out of thin air and then she'll ask to get back and I'll forgive. I thought she was just a tortured soul with bad history and I gave her an excuse after another. And finally when I started setting boundaries, she met another guy and was flirting with him while she was with me. We moved from making plans to move in together to a breakup within 3 days! It was like nothing I've seen before, and I thought I was good at catching narcissists, but that love bombing was unique. Still healing from it, and from the fact that I truly believed she was my soulmate....
Dr. Ramani, you need to make more videos about this type, listening to this was so validating
"she met another guy and was flirting with him while she was with me. We moved from making plans to move in together to a breakup within 3 days!"
Same story here, except with a man. Or shall I say "man" because he isn't a real man for having done that.
@@anumer897 Same!
I got "dumped" more times than I can count!
And at the very end, he said it was my fault I was ensnared in his abuse because I obviously knew he wouldn't change and kept taking him back.
He may be right, but it hurt to be told that.
This sounds more BPD to me.
In my case, she started an affair with her upstairs neighbor right after we got back from a wonderful vacation where I thought I could live with this woman.