Is there conjecture that the hill forts - with their outer ditches - were re-enactments of the multilevel dams they logically formed around Doggerland farmsteads as the seas rose? i.e. as fear rose with the sea, smaller dams protected them temporarily but as they eventually fled they took to the highest places to get them ready if the sea rose this high again? Hmmm...
It would be interesting to do a bit of research on mainland Europe to see if there's any evidence that it continued on that side. After all, when Doggerland was land, maybe that path went all the way to Denmark or even Sweden or Norway. It would have all been part of the same contiguous
Paul, being from the 'States I am not very conversant with the ancient history of Britain but a statement that caught my interest at about @4:16 in this video spoke of 440,000 years back. Is that true? I guess I'm just trying to ensure I didn't mishear the speaker. I can imagine that the subject of this video is anywhere near "complete" so am looking forward to hearing more.
@@clarencetaylor7455 We all curious what happened. I haven't seen Mary on telly for ages. Telly is so dumbed down these days that is why i am making my own telly on RUclips.
From Gatlinburg, Tennessee and love this Channel. It allows me to visit the geography and history of Southern England without leaving the beauty of the Smokies. I appreciate the way Paul and Rebecca keep the videos short and concise and "flash" pictures of informational park signs which can be paused and read in full as if you were entering that historic area for a day hike. Thank you!
@@vsvnrg3263 At 4.46 he goes to see Barbara Castle, the Minister of Transport who couldn't drive a car. On another note I know that on parts of the Kerry Ridgeway on the Welsh/ English border with the magic of GPS it is possible for each partner in a dogging situation can be in a different country assuming the doggy position is used. So a bloke my mate met in a pub said.
Oh man, three videos on Doggerland dropping on the same day?! You, History with Kayleigh and Miniminuteman! Amazing. I'd love to see you link up with the other two in some way.
I live on the ridgeway near the White Horse pub and I’ve always wondered where the path started and where it could ended up. Makes sense if it’s that old it could have been a longer path connecting us with mainland Europe. Great video always.
I first learned about doggerland in timeteam many years ago, and still I find it the most fascinating episode, and I still find doggerland one the most interesting historical stories I’m always fascinated when some new stuff appears
The last real remaining bit of Doggerland is in my opinion the Netherlands, which has always fought the sea and only exists because of hundreds of years of building dikes and polders. Half the country would be under water, if not for them. The 'fight' continues to this day and it will never end.
Another great video, I think not being formally trained in history has the advantage of looking at things in a different way, coming up with alternative theories and points of view.
Paul, that was a wonderful way to remind everyone, when we are walking, we are walking on the ground, that those that came before us did....wouldn't it be glorious for other " great finds " along the way.......such enthusiasm by all involved....I'm NY 1962 Toms very British/Brazilian future wife MD, Veteran, Middle East & Cont. of Africa
This excellent snapshot of a British prehistory journey way and possible migration route out of Doggerland during the final phase of the last Ice Age ties that long-lost territory to some of our ancestors whose DNA we probably still carry today! The Great Chalk Way is not only a journey across the UK, it is a passageway from 6,200 BCE to the present. Brilliant!
it's very silly to think those Mesolithic people would use 1 route to go from Doggerland to England or the Netherlands, they obviously used hundreds of routes over an area that spans 18,000 square miles
@Blackadder75 if you look at older maps with far fewer roads than we have today, you will see that the best routes between key places such as London-York-Edinburgh or London-Manchester-Chester or Lancaster or London-Lands End have many joining places. These existed before the Romans gave them their modern names. Locally, you would use the nearest path. Longer routes you would head for the known routes for safety and wayfinding in unfamiliar places. So of course people moved along locally. Plenty would have moved as planned groups looking for unused places at a distance. That kind of migration still existed from Europe to America in the last century.
@@Blackadder75 Except that Doggerland was a plain and maybe wet & marshy in places like a lot of areas on the coast, so the popular route would be one that follows a natural ridge of higher land. That's what the Ridgeway is, a path that follows the natural ridge of chalk that crosses England diagonally all the way to Lincolnshire.
As ever, interesting, but I think you are being a little romantic Paul. A more prosaic explanation is that the chalk ridge had one enormous advantage over routes along the valleys beneath. Being on porous rock it was passible for much longer than a route along clay vales (which also would have had many more river crossings too) and river valleys. So it was an obvious route for all longer distance traffic, especially livestock. Its wide margins also point to it being a livestock movement route, where drovers could graze their flocks as they moved them. As a major artery of communication, it would have attracted the construction of significant sites, just as road, canal and rail routes do elsewhere. Any use as a refugee route might have been incidental, not lasting long, but its beyond my knowledge whether this happened before or after the routes were established. Still a fascinating route and full of a sense of history notwithstanding - the designation of a Great Chalk Way is long overdue.
@@tednruth453 Elephants migrate vast distances and remove trees from established routes and waterholes. The mammoths and other migrating species swept off Doggerland by the wave, would also have found ridges an obvious route. Their predators would follow.
I hate the way people try to bring refugees and diversity into every darn last thing now - it's almost like brian washing or something.......... (Yes brain is spelled wrong cos RUclips removes comment for some strange reason otherwise?????.....).
Any deep archaeology must connect with the land down to 300 feet underwater, much of which was occupied, hunted, where caves were used, including the connecting lost area of Doggerland. IMHO, true scientific and geographical inquiry seeks what is, theorizes, then adds new data and fresh discoveries. You do a lot of that primary searching, which is why I enjoy this channel so much. 👏🏻
I don’t know my ice ages.. how many times since c. 500K BC might Doggerland have emerged & sunk, & the ridgeways been used? Cheers from Nova Scotia. 🇨🇦
@@BinkyTheElf1 There were 5 known about or major ice ages, the last one beginning about 2.6 million years ago, and including a time when the equator was close to where Britain is, so it was also a desert, here.. 125,000 years ago a melting ice cap source of rising sea level was at 10 Metres higher than the present level, and there are places in the UK where there is visible evidence in the features that were once under water, consistent to this. Interesting question, remains: was 'Doggerland' above sea level at other times, before it's final sinking some 8,500 years ago.. The 'Norwegian' tsunami mentioned was found by scientists / etc to have been 3 mega tsunamis, and the millions and billions of years ago volcanic and earthquake / upheavals sort of events also shaped the features of the British landscape as it is now.
When I used to manage Dunstable Downs I often thought of walking to either the North Norfolk Coast or Avebury or both. I really should have.... Great video.
Having walked the current Ridgeway, it's obvious it originally extended further east and west so this new project linking it to Doggerland is fascinating. Excellent video as always, loving the channel from Alberta Canada
@@pwhitewick We did it over a couple of long weekends, not in one go, leisurely rather than record breaking. I was born in Wiltshire, grew up in Hampshire, emigrated 8 years ago. Your channel makes me home sick as I recognise so many views!
I used to run along the Wiltshire Ridgeway with my Welsh Border Collie most Sundays. Lovely views, especially looking down on Avebury and along the Ridgeway towards Banbury Castle. We, as a family, would explore the more unvisited historical places in Wiltshire and Oxfordshire, fantastic history governing all these places. Good post 👍
Thanks for bringing this together Paul. Fascinating, what a time of change they saw in the time of Doggerland and the coming of the wave. Ivinghoe Beacon was my childhood stomping ground.
Just brilliant Paul. You have come a long way from documenting lost railway stations. Some one mentioned that your content is worthy of being broadcast. I can only agree with that sentiment 😊
It's not even a Sunday if I don't get my Whitewick fix. Thanks for another fascinating video. Your voice is becoming the Attenborough narration of British cultural history.
Your theory holds much water! It is interesting to speculate that the Storegga diaspora may have also been northward, that trade links were maintained and a common culture grew between the southern coast of England and the Orkneys hence Skara Brae and Stone Henge. Since Doggerland had shrunk because of rising sea levels, migration likely had already established trade routes to these locations, which became sites of cultural significance.
You are great at taking a sideways look at things, Paul. This video has made me consider the idea of a "flood myth" on our shores relating to the submersion of Doggerland and that's something I've never thought about before. YouTubing at its best.
Cheers Mr WC21. Yup I was very concious I didn't want to jump on the mud flood rubbish with this, but for sure if you survived a 30m high tsunami, that won't be forgotten for generation after generation.
@@pwhitewick We do have flood myths in Wales, one of them being Cantre'r Gwaelod, telling of the lost lands in Cardigan Bay. Even today, at low tides, there are remnants of forests long submerged. I suggest that the graphic that you have used only shows the land lost on the east coast. whereas the whole map would have looked very different to the west as well. Anyway, a very interesting video Thanks!
That was a very interesting video. The theory that the old still existing pathes were also used as migration routes for those fleeing the flooding of Doggerland are plausible. I wish we could explore the remains at the bottom of the sea far more than we already did. Imagining athriving community where now the North Sea is has always been intriguing. This should be longer though. And thanks for the full speech!
@@pwhitewick It took about 3,000 years for Doggerland to go underwater, islands forming first in the process.. "The impact of the tsunami generated by the Storega underwater landslide 8,200 years ago on Doggerland is controversial" ..This probably includes the dates involved showing Doggerland was already underwater when the tsunami / tsunamis occured..
If story's of the tsunami were passed down it would explain the ridgeway having more meaning to our ancestors. It would also explain why some of the hill forts were built where they were and only used in times of seeking refuge. Our ancestors weren't daft after all!
@@pwhitewick In cultures without writing, stories are passed down reliably for thousands of years. I live on Wadawurrung country in SE Australia. The land is basalt over Ordovician sedimentary rocks. The Dreaming stories tell of the volcanic eruptions as the warring gods moved back and forth across the landscape, the changes in the patterns of migration, and so on. The stories tell the sequence, 30,000 to 40,000 years later. For a long time they were dismissed as fanciful, but the geology proves them true. Additionally, the songlines guided the people through the seasonal migration from the beaches in summer to the swamps, forests, and plains up in the hills in winter where it was cold but food was plentiful.
Flood myths exist in most cultures around the world. It is suggested that they may reflect a collective memory of the end of the last ice age, when vast amounts of inhabited land around he world were gradually submerged. Dogger Bank (formally island and prior to that hills) today is only 13 metres below sea level at its shallowest point. A huge windfarm is currently being built on the bank, and there is a proposal to create an artificial island in the future. Doggerland reborn.
My mother was born on the coast of Norfolk. I heard of Doggerland far earlier in the 50's and 60's than many. Her people were trawler captains and crew. I always figured that the stone circles were a sort of Spiritual reaction to the flood, and rising waters. To hear of the Ridgeway now, it makes a lot of sense. Pathways from the Norfolk Coast and other East Coast areas, would have been a natural escape route into the interior and safety. I think it will be found that like a series of river deltas to the sea, they will flow West to connect to the Megalithic Monuments of Stonehenge, Avebury, etc. It is likely not to be one single route from the North Sea. Happy hunting...
That was excellent. I’ve visited parts of The Ridgeway many times and ‘am fascinated by the story of Doggerland and had wondered if databale finds either ‘side’ could suggest deep trade routes in and out of southern Britain to Continental Europe via Doggerland. So whether your theory is right or not, and I suspect it has truth, this was eye opening.
I watched today someone suggest the river near Avebury was 25 metres higher around 5000bc , so water , marshes , forest , rivers would have been a major obstacle. The ridgeway would have been used I imagine almost certainly by every generation of human or older species as long as the ridgeway existed . There's some amazing views looking accross the lands below . An excellent place to transfer knowledge , gossip
5000 bc, I think the sea levels were perhaps 30m or so lower. Maybe a tad less. So I am not sure where this Avebury theory keeps proping up. In facr around 2500 - 3000 bc evedence suggests the landscape around Avebury was largely scrub land.
@@pwhitewick There's a video somewhere that illustrates the higher water level around Avebury, and there's no question there was quite a lot of England under water in relatively recent times, inland to the south from The Wash / Doggerland, for example. But this does not include a timetable, research, when exactly was it higher, and when was it lower?
@@pwhitewick Regarding the 1607 Severn estuary flood... This article was adapted from the findings of a Bath Spa University College study issued by Dr Simon Haslett FGS, FRGS. The fact that the floodwaters reached further inland in places, such as to the foot of Glastonbury Tor (14 miles inland) is due to the fact that the landsurface actually slopes landward in many of the coastal wetland areas, such as the Somerset Levels, so once the wave collapsed the water flowed landward under gravity rather than back to the sea. Might help explain something??!!
Well, there was a warm period for several thousand years during the Bronze Ages, about 5000-2000BC, during which time temperatures were about 2 degrees C higher in the latitudes of Britain and 7 degrees C higher around the Arctic. This must be the time that you're talking about, when the sea levels were higher. (I know we're all meant to pretend that the climate hasn't changed since the Ice Age but it's tiresome to keep ignoring all the evidence, that was known and not under debate a few years ago! I got this information from one of the papers of the International Panel on Climate Change, by the way ! And there's constantly more evidence being published all the time supporting this. The 'fact' hasn't changed, it's just that this topic is being totally ignored in public ... for some reason).
@gaz8891 I assumed the rivers , high water areas, marshes etc were the resulting remnants of the ice age retreating . There is no doubt co2 is contributing to warmer climate, though certainly some variation over the years since last ice age
Very enjoyable episode Mr Whitewick, reasonable thinking - when the sea keeps ruining your sandcastle; no matter how many ditches, you'll just move to safe higher ground. Any trouble really - go to the hills. Always found Doggerland facinating, then DNA & Eddie Izzard's Dutch "Broon Coow" made sense, plus reading the comments, drovers' HIGHways are very credible.
Really interesting. I didn't know about the new work on the Ridgeway, though I live close to Dunstable Downs and have been there often. I don't see a particular reason to see the route specifically as a retreat, but it certainly does make sense to say if it extended to today's coast, and that wasn't the coast at the time, then it surely extended further.
You don't need the Ridgeway to be a 'safe route for refugees'. It was a traderoute in later ages, and will have been exactly that even if it stretched into Doggerland. It also went past Avebury et al, down south to henistbury Head, where it connected to trade with what is now France. maybe the NE part went up all the way to Denmark and Scandivania? Fascinating stuff.
Yes, I love the topic but the idea that it was a refugee route doesn't work for me. The sea levels would have been rising far too gradually to require a single emergency route out from Doggerland. The people of that time would also already have been living in parts of mainland Britain and been familiar with various routes in and out. Conversely, for the Storegga landslide & tsunami event(s), well that would have happened far too quickly to allow all the people to trek or canoe away along a single route. They would either have died immediately or survived as they were already on higher land or their canoe was washed ashore, no time for all treking along a path. I think ! Nevertheless, the idea that the flood/submergence of Doggerland could have created some long-lasting flood myths is good and valid. (Personally, I think this explains the lost land of Atlantis ...) As you say, it was a major trade route for regular traffic from the Bronze Ages onwards (Britain was the source of tin). The 'high way' along the chalk ridge of England is the obvious practical route for crossing southern England.
The Peddars Way and The Icknield Way both lead to the coast near Holme Norfolk. It's been suggested that there was perhaps a ferry in ancient times, crossing the Wash thereby avoiding the marshy Fens. However, at low tide near there and at neighbouring Old Hunstanton, you can walk out miles.....
I’m late here but I loved this video, the History and The Ancient World of Britain. I never knew about The Ridgeway until you told its story. Thank you Paul
A few years ago a young lad was walking down the beach at Spurn Point on the east coast, & picked up what he thought was a piece of wood. It turned out that it was actually a length of focilised mammoth tusk that had washed up.
The tsunami event may have contributed to the use of hill forts, not just defensible againt aggressors but also pretty handy against big coastal waves. Interested in what was the cause behind the tsunami?
Excellent concise video, It's inspired me to look into any research around whether the propensity of settlements on top of hills is more due to this flood event in dogger land and not necessarily just for military defence. It could well be that like you mentioned that social memory lingered on so they built accordingly.
Hi Paul, Back then when the sea levels were 300' lower the Ridgeway must have been really high. What an amazing find from dogger bank. Excellent video, well done, all the best!!
Sea levels have not risen 300 feet in the last 8000 years. Current estimates are between 18 to 20 metres - 54 feet to 60 feet. Think about it. Dogger Bank was at the surface around that time. It is now about 20 metres below the surface.
@@thedogfather5445 You make a very good point. I suppose the prominence would be the same as it was back then anyway. A NASA report on sea level rise makes interesting reading: After temperatures reached their maximum the ice sheets continued to melt for 8000 years until reaching equilibrium!!
Isostatic rebound should not be ignored - elevations of regions is not the same now as it would have been closer to the glacial maximum, of which both ice loss and the weight of new seas will contribute
That was excellent. I’ve visited parts of The Ridgeway many times and ‘am fascinated by the story of Doggerland and had wondered if databale finds either ‘side’ could suggest deep trade routes in and out of southern Britain to Continental Europe via Doggerland. So whether your theory is right or not, and I suspect it has truth, this was eye opening.
Well put together video and very informative. I was about to some to the same conclusion before you said it. It’s a good possibility that they took to higher ground to protect themselves
I live in a City, that is now considered the Edge of the Fenlands, of Anglia, Our local Historic site, has historic Round Houses, but also wooden walkways across the wet lands, left by the ancient Tsunami, Thank You Paul for bringing us this Knowledge,
Ridgeway Path goes twice in Buckinghamshire, the Ridgeway Path is next Icknield Way. I was born and lived in Wendover and the highest of Chilterns Hills the Haddingtom Hill which in Halton and next to RAF Halton.
Very interesting video linking possible patterns of migration and human settlement when what is now called, 'Britain' really was part of what is now called, 'Europe'.
I like your theory, Paul… let’s not forget that that tsunami may well have had seismic changes - just think what damage was done in February 1287 in East Sussex and Kent with rivers changing course and old Winchelsea being lost under the waves…
People move back and establish farms on volcano slopes after a couple of generations of an explosive eruption. The flooding of the Black Sea didn't cause a depopulation of the surrounding lands. Traumas make great legends, but I suspect that people moved on that route because it was comparatively easy to traverse.
9:10 there is a Time Team Special that looks at the tsunami. Tony said that the wave went to North America and broke the ice wall holding back that freshwater inland sea. This fresh water came rushing back, and is what completely covered Doggerland. The ocean currents did not stop. That fresh water sea must have been huge, as it covered parts of what is now Manitoba and Saskatchewan.
If you consider the Icknield way to be the extended Ridgeway then it already goes to Royston. You were hinting that it may have ended at Dunstable at 3:12 ?
@@pwhitewick I'd only traced the Icknield way as far as Royston, mainly driving on business trips, but I see from the field alignment that it probably carried on past Duxford even though it's well inside the land of the Iceni by then.
I came upon this from a different angle: having observed that there has been a large brick making industry ( which requires clay and sand) in bedfordshire and curious to know why woburn SANDS is so called, i did some googling ( well duck duck going actually) and discovered a geological band extending from the wash to the dorset coast which relates to this huge swathe of land being under sea. So it seems to me the ridgeway was originally a coastal walk.
Brilliant, I've been wondering about this - was there once a water channel (or even a temporary flood) that flowed diagonally south-west from the Wash, dividing England into two ?! It looks that way on the map and you've confirmed it ! (Though I was thinking that it ran from the Wash to the Bristol Channel.) Is this the official academic explanation for the band of clay & sand running from Dorset to The Wash?
Probably 25 years ago I bought a book on cycling the Chalk Way. It is a slightly different route of today’s version. We did the southern part of it. Started at Weymouth . Headed up through Dorchester, Shaftesbury, Salisbury, Marlborough ended in Wallingford before heading home. We had to divert a few times and hit tarmac due to time constraints. I’d like to give it another go now it’s an official route.
I agree that these pathways may have been used as an escape route. However, they must have been already known, and used for the people fleeing the water to know about them and take them. It could be that they were as much of the ceremonial landscape and connectivity of the peoples as Avebury and Stonehenge were. Perhaps they were pilgrimage routes or trade routes? It is know that trading existed, by the goods that have been found from European areas during archaeological studies. Thank you for sharing your theories and understanding of events. I look forward to seeing your videos every week.
Thanks Sarah. Yup, I guess in truth this would have gone south not just to Doggerland, but perhaps the southern end existed long before and continued into France
Fascinating. Apologies if repeating other comments, but the theory suggests the Chalk Way (now called) was an escape route from sinking lands to the north east. The people ever moving further south west believing the lands behind them could go under (even including East Anglia and South Midlands), so always looking over their shoulders. Perhaps making primitive sacred sites along the way as offerings to the gods in the hope these would save them, these sites later developing into larger more complex sites (?). Thanks!
Go find the route and details here: greatchalkway.org.uk/
and: icknieldwaypath.co.uk
Is there conjecture that the hill forts - with their outer ditches - were re-enactments of the multilevel dams they logically formed around Doggerland farmsteads as the seas rose? i.e. as fear rose with the sea, smaller dams protected them temporarily but as they eventually fled they took to the highest places to get them ready if the sea rose this high again? Hmmm...
It would be interesting to do a bit of research on mainland Europe to see if there's any evidence that it continued on that side. After all, when
Doggerland was land, maybe that path went all the way to Denmark or even Sweden or Norway. It would have all been part of the same contiguous
Paul, being from the 'States I am not very conversant with the ancient history of Britain but a statement that caught my interest at about @4:16 in this video spoke of 440,000 years back. Is that true? I guess I'm just trying to ensure I didn't mishear the speaker. I can imagine that the subject of this video is anywhere near "complete" so am looking forward to hearing more.
SLIGHT PROBLEM: Beacon Hill is not in Hertfordshire...
@@gijgij4541 Yuuuup. I always mess that up!
thank you for capturing the launch event! here's to 400 miles of wandering and wondering about who walked first, and why...
Thats Mary-Ann. Eloquent and articulate as ever!
Hope your arm gets better
@@clarencetaylor7455 We all curious what happened. I haven't seen Mary on telly for ages. Telly is so dumbed down these days that is why i am making my own telly on RUclips.
The magic of England is the 1000s of years of following each other's footprints
Great to see you Mary-Ann, and a great opening speech for this wonderful new route.
From Gatlinburg, Tennessee and love this Channel. It allows me to visit the geography and history of Southern England without leaving the beauty of the Smokies. I appreciate the way Paul and Rebecca keep the videos short and concise and "flash" pictures of informational park signs which can be paused and read in full as if you were entering that historic area for a day hike. Thank you!
Awesome, thank you!
Gatlinburg! Where a boy named Sue fought his Pa.
You keep posting content about Doggerland, and I'll keep watching it.
I do have a bigger video planned actually... specifically on DL.
@@pwhitewick , i'm not sure but i think jonnoplays is taking the piss out of you.
@@vsvnrg3263 I'm not so sure. He comments regularly. But either way, all good.
@@vsvnrg3263 At 4.46 he goes to see Barbara Castle, the Minister of Transport who couldn't drive a car.
On another note I know that on parts of the Kerry Ridgeway on the Welsh/ English border with the magic of GPS it is possible for each partner in a dogging situation can be in a different country assuming the doggy position is used. So a bloke my mate met in a pub said.
@@pwhitewick , the comment section is for laughs as well as information. he beat me to making jokes about doggerland.
Oh man, three videos on Doggerland dropping on the same day?! You, History with Kayleigh and Miniminuteman! Amazing. I'd love to see you link up with the other two in some way.
And a guest appearance by Mary-Ann Ochota of Time Team.
It was not so much Doggerland dropping as the sea level rising. Same end result, though.
@@B_Ruphe I assume the reference is to the videos "dropping," (i.e. being posted) not to Doggerland itself.
@@CharlesStearman Yes, this is not videos dropping, it's RUclips quality rising. 😀
Was thinking the same thing.
I live on the ridgeway near the White Horse pub and I’ve always wondered where the path started and where it could ended up.
Makes sense if it’s that old it could have been a longer path connecting us with mainland Europe.
Great video always.
Cheers. You are a lucky man!
How very Bilbo-esque! Cheers from the states!
I live in Avebury and can see the Ridgeway from my window. I have just discovered your videos and am loving them xx
Wonderful. I am very jealous! Welcome to the channel.
@@pwhitewick Keep on doing what you are doing x
I first learned about doggerland in timeteam many years ago, and still I find it the most fascinating episode, and I still find doggerland one the most interesting historical stories I’m always fascinated when some new stuff appears
The last real remaining bit of Doggerland is in my opinion the Netherlands, which has always fought the sea and only exists because of hundreds of years of building dikes and polders. Half the country would be under water, if not for them. The 'fight' continues to this day and it will never end.
The Dutch also came to East Anglia to help stop those low lands flooding as well
Windmills where used as water pumps unreal what they have done
The fight won't end until the Netherlands 🇳🇱 reach UK 🇬🇧, lol.
@@mrbaab5932 indeed. Reclaiming Doggerland (and elsewhere, protecting New Orleans as a side project) is important and long-running work.
A lot, but not half. Sea levels need to rise a bit to get that far.
Your broadcasts make Sunday evenings so enjoyable. Thanks.
Very kind. Thanks
Another great video, I think not being formally trained in history has the advantage of looking at things in a different way, coming up with alternative theories and points of view.
Paul, that was a wonderful way to remind everyone, when we are walking, we are walking on the ground, that those that came before us did....wouldn't it be glorious for other " great finds " along the way.......such enthusiasm by all involved....I'm NY 1962 Toms very British/Brazilian future wife MD, Veteran, Middle East & Cont. of Africa
This excellent snapshot of a British prehistory journey way and possible migration route out of Doggerland during the final phase of the last Ice Age ties that long-lost territory to some of our ancestors whose DNA we probably still carry today! The Great Chalk Way is not only a journey across the UK, it is a passageway from 6,200 BCE to the present. Brilliant!
it's very silly to think those Mesolithic people would use 1 route to go from Doggerland to England or the Netherlands, they obviously used hundreds of routes over an area that spans 18,000 square miles
@Blackadder75 if you look at older maps with far fewer roads than we have today, you will see that the best routes between key places such as London-York-Edinburgh or London-Manchester-Chester or Lancaster or London-Lands End have many joining places. These existed before the Romans gave them their modern names. Locally, you would use the nearest path. Longer routes you would head for the known routes for safety and wayfinding in unfamiliar places. So of course people moved along locally. Plenty would have moved as planned groups looking for unused places at a distance. That kind of migration still existed from Europe to America in the last century.
@@Blackadder75 Except that Doggerland was a plain and maybe wet & marshy in places like a lot of areas on the coast, so the popular route would be one that follows a natural ridge of higher land. That's what the Ridgeway is, a path that follows the natural ridge of chalk that crosses England diagonally all the way to Lincolnshire.
As ever, interesting, but I think you are being a little romantic Paul.
A more prosaic explanation is that the chalk ridge had one enormous advantage over routes along the valleys beneath. Being on porous rock it was passible for much longer than a route along clay vales (which also would have had many more river crossings too) and river valleys. So it was an obvious route for all longer distance traffic, especially livestock. Its wide margins also point to it being a livestock movement route, where drovers could graze their flocks as they moved them. As a major artery of communication, it would have attracted the construction of significant sites, just as road, canal and rail routes do elsewhere. Any use as a refugee route might have been incidental, not lasting long, but its beyond my knowledge whether this happened before or after the routes were established. Still a fascinating route and full of a sense of history notwithstanding - the designation of a Great Chalk Way is long overdue.
@@neilbucknell9564 most watersheds were the safer and most obvious routes, goes without saying.
@@tednruth453 Elephants migrate vast distances and remove trees from established routes and waterholes. The mammoths and other migrating species swept off Doggerland by the wave, would also have found ridges an obvious route. Their predators would follow.
that's fair
@@differous01 that's a good point too
I hate the way people try to bring refugees and diversity into every darn last thing now - it's almost like brian washing or something..........
(Yes brain is spelled wrong cos RUclips removes comment for some strange reason otherwise?????.....).
I love the enthusiasm with which you present this. So glad I subscribed !
Any deep archaeology must connect with the land down to 300 feet underwater, much of which was occupied, hunted, where caves were used, including the connecting lost area of Doggerland. IMHO, true scientific and geographical inquiry seeks what is, theorizes, then adds new data and fresh discoveries.
You do a lot of that primary searching, which is why I enjoy this channel so much. 👏🏻
Thanks Binky. Means a lot.
I don’t know my ice ages.. how many times since c. 500K BC might Doggerland have emerged & sunk, & the ridgeways been used? Cheers from Nova Scotia. 🇨🇦
@@BinkyTheElf1 There were 5 known about or major ice ages, the last one beginning about 2.6 million years ago, and including a time when the equator was close to where Britain is, so it was also a desert, here..
125,000 years ago a melting ice cap source of rising sea level was at 10 Metres higher than the present level, and there are places in the UK where there is visible evidence in the features that were once under water, consistent to this.
Interesting question, remains: was 'Doggerland' above sea level at other times, before it's final sinking some 8,500 years ago.. The 'Norwegian' tsunami mentioned was found by scientists / etc to have been 3 mega tsunamis, and the millions and billions of years ago volcanic and earthquake / upheavals sort of events also shaped the features of the British landscape as it is now.
@@BinkyTheElf1 about 4 times.
And each time the population had left the area of modern day britain. And after each they returned.
When I used to manage Dunstable Downs I often thought of walking to either the North Norfolk Coast or Avebury or both. I really should have.... Great video.
Having walked the current Ridgeway, it's obvious it originally extended further east and west so this new project linking it to Doggerland is fascinating. Excellent video as always, loving the channel from Alberta Canada
How long did it take you?
@@pwhitewick We did it over a couple of long weekends, not in one go, leisurely rather than record breaking. I was born in Wiltshire, grew up in Hampshire, emigrated 8 years ago. Your channel makes me home sick as I recognise so many views!
I used to run along the Wiltshire Ridgeway with my Welsh Border Collie most Sundays. Lovely views, especially looking down on Avebury and along the Ridgeway towards Banbury Castle. We, as a family, would explore the more unvisited historical places in Wiltshire and Oxfordshire, fantastic history governing all these places. Good post 👍
Both you and Miniminuteman publish a video about Doggerland the same day! What a treat!
History with Kayleigh did too. Must be doggerland day! Lol
Paul thus channel never fails to deliver new information and suggestions for more research. Thank you. This was particularly interesting.
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Thanks for bringing this together Paul. Fascinating, what a time of change they saw in the time of Doggerland and the coming of the wave. Ivinghoe Beacon was my childhood stomping ground.
I really look forward to these Sunday broadcasts and they've never disappointed. Thank you both for all the hard work you put into making your videos.
Our pleasure! Thanks
I absolutely love your enthusiasm for the stories you tell.
Just brilliant Paul. You have come a long way from documenting lost railway stations. Some one mentioned that your content is worthy of being broadcast. I can only agree with that sentiment 😊
Many thanks!
I agree! His narration voice is very reminiscent of Bill Oddy
It's not even a Sunday if I don't get my Whitewick fix.
Thanks for another fascinating video. Your voice is becoming the Attenborough narration of British cultural history.
Ah thanks, very kind.
"Doug Landman" - with that name, he should've become an archeologist.
Brilliant right!
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I kneel before your genius, brilliant mate
Or a surveyor or civil engineer, or miner.
@@fionaanderson5796yeah surveyor was my first thought lol
Thanks, the Ridgeway is one of the tracks i used to so much enjoy when i could.
Your theory holds much water! It is interesting to speculate that the Storegga diaspora may have also been northward, that trade links were maintained and a common culture grew between the southern coast of England and the Orkneys hence Skara Brae and Stone Henge. Since Doggerland had shrunk because of rising sea levels, migration likely had already established trade routes to these locations, which became sites of cultural significance.
You are great at taking a sideways look at things, Paul. This video has made me consider the idea of a "flood myth" on our shores relating to the submersion of Doggerland and that's something I've never thought about before. YouTubing at its best.
Cheers Mr WC21. Yup I was very concious I didn't want to jump on the mud flood rubbish with this, but for sure if you survived a 30m high tsunami, that won't be forgotten for generation after generation.
@@pwhitewick We do have flood myths in Wales, one of them being Cantre'r Gwaelod, telling of the lost lands in Cardigan Bay. Even today, at low tides, there are remnants of forests long submerged. I suggest that the graphic that you have used only shows the land lost on the east coast. whereas the whole map would have looked very different to the west as well. Anyway, a very interesting video Thanks!
Love the Ridgeway.
Have walked the parts between Ivinghoe Beacon (Beacon Hill), Wendover and Princes Risborough many times :)
I am envious. It looks amazing.
Superb Paul. Enjoyed our opening event too
Great fun wasn't it.
That was a very interesting video.
The theory that the old still existing pathes were also used as migration routes for those fleeing the flooding of Doggerland are plausible. I wish we could explore the remains at the bottom of the sea far more than we already did.
Imagining athriving community where now the North Sea is has always been intriguing.
This should be longer though.
And thanks for the full speech!
Thank you. Oh indeed for a time machine!... and a decent submarine.
@@pwhitewick
It took about 3,000 years for Doggerland to go underwater, islands forming first in the process..
"The impact of the tsunami generated by the Storega underwater landslide 8,200 years ago on Doggerland is controversial" ..This probably includes the dates involved showing Doggerland was already underwater when the tsunami / tsunamis occured..
... when the Storega tsunamis occurred.
Don't we think that any archaeological remains under the North Sea will have been utterly destroyed by 20th Century dragnet trawling?
Great to see Marie doing well and still a great speaker after her stint on Time Team.
Yup Mary-Ann is a legend.
Yeah, not so much. Her racism comes out too strongly sometimes.
@ziggurat-builder8755 yeah this is the first time I've heard her speak and my spidey senses started tingling when we started playing diversity bingo
Many thanks. I've been interested in the Ridgeway for some time now, but I've never visited it. All makes sense to me.
Very interesting! We love sharing your walk and learning along the way! Thank you!
Our pleasure!
Great episode Paul and Rebecca (production) love every week ⚔️⚔️⚔️👏👍⭐️
If story's of the tsunami were passed down it would explain the ridgeway having more meaning to our ancestors.
It would also explain why some of the hill forts were built where they were and only used in times of seeking refuge.
Our ancestors weren't daft after all!
I have this notion, that even if the stories were lost, maybe that in built fear lasted in the genes!
@@pwhitewick In cultures without writing, stories are passed down reliably for thousands of years.
I live on Wadawurrung country in SE Australia. The land is basalt over Ordovician sedimentary rocks. The Dreaming stories tell of the volcanic eruptions as the warring gods moved back and forth across the landscape, the changes in the patterns of migration, and so on. The stories tell the sequence, 30,000 to 40,000 years later. For a long time they were dismissed as fanciful, but the geology proves them true.
Additionally, the songlines guided the people through the seasonal migration from the beaches in summer to the swamps, forests, and plains up in the hills in winter where it was cold but food was plentiful.
Seeking high ground in troubled times doesn’t seem daft at all. Particularly on an island ….
I've long been fascinated by Doggerland and will add the Great Chalk Way to my endless list of things to do should I ever get to visit the UK.
Flood myths exist in most cultures around the world. It is suggested that they may reflect a collective memory of the end of the last ice age, when vast amounts of inhabited land around he world were gradually submerged. Dogger Bank (formally island and prior to that hills) today is only 13 metres below sea level at its shallowest point. A huge windfarm is currently being built on the bank, and there is a proposal to create an artificial island in the future. Doggerland reborn.
Love this channel….always something interesting to watch 👍
My mother was born on the coast of Norfolk. I heard of Doggerland far earlier in the 50's and 60's than many. Her people were trawler captains and crew. I always figured that the stone circles were a sort of Spiritual reaction to the flood, and rising waters.
To hear of the Ridgeway now, it makes a lot of sense. Pathways from the Norfolk Coast and other East Coast areas, would have been a natural escape route into the interior and safety.
I think it will be found that like a series of river deltas to the sea, they will flow West to connect to the Megalithic Monuments of Stonehenge, Avebury, etc. It is likely not to be one single route from the North Sea.
Happy hunting...
better than anything on TV , thanks 🙂
Thanks Paul and Rebecca. Amazing production and real food for thought.
That was excellent. I’ve visited parts of The Ridgeway many times and ‘am fascinated by the story of Doggerland and had wondered if databale finds either ‘side’ could suggest deep trade routes in and out of southern Britain to Continental Europe via Doggerland. So whether your theory is right or not, and I suspect it has truth, this was eye opening.
I watched today someone suggest the river near Avebury was 25 metres higher around 5000bc , so water , marshes , forest , rivers would have been a major obstacle. The ridgeway would have been used I imagine almost certainly by every generation of human or older species as long as the ridgeway existed . There's some amazing views looking accross the lands below . An excellent place to transfer knowledge , gossip
5000 bc, I think the sea levels were perhaps 30m or so lower. Maybe a tad less. So I am not sure where this Avebury theory keeps proping up. In facr around 2500 - 3000 bc evedence suggests the landscape around Avebury was largely scrub land.
@@pwhitewick
There's a video somewhere that illustrates the higher water level around Avebury, and there's no question there was quite a lot of England under water in relatively recent times, inland to the south from The Wash / Doggerland, for example.
But this does not include a timetable, research, when exactly was it higher, and when was it lower?
@@pwhitewick
Regarding the 1607 Severn estuary flood...
This article was adapted from the findings of a Bath Spa University College study issued by Dr Simon Haslett FGS, FRGS.
The fact that the floodwaters reached further inland in places, such as to the foot of Glastonbury Tor (14 miles inland) is due to the fact that the landsurface actually slopes landward in many of the coastal wetland areas, such as the Somerset Levels, so once the wave collapsed the water flowed landward under gravity rather than back to the sea.
Might help explain something??!!
Well, there was a warm period for several thousand years during the Bronze Ages, about 5000-2000BC, during which time temperatures were about 2 degrees C higher in the latitudes of Britain and 7 degrees C higher around the Arctic. This must be the time that you're talking about, when the sea levels were higher.
(I know we're all meant to pretend that the climate hasn't changed since the Ice Age but it's tiresome to keep ignoring all the evidence, that was known and not under debate a few years ago! I got this information from one of the papers of the International Panel on Climate Change, by the way ! And there's constantly more evidence being published all the time supporting this. The 'fact' hasn't changed, it's just that this topic is being totally ignored in public ... for some reason).
@gaz8891 I assumed the rivers , high water areas, marshes etc were the resulting remnants of the ice age retreating . There is no doubt co2 is contributing to warmer climate, though certainly some variation over the years since last ice age
Very enjoyable episode Mr Whitewick, reasonable thinking - when the sea keeps ruining your sandcastle; no matter how many ditches, you'll just move to safe higher ground. Any trouble really - go to the hills. Always found Doggerland facinating, then DNA & Eddie Izzard's Dutch "Broon Coow" made sense, plus reading the comments, drovers' HIGHways are very credible.
Another lovely instalment, Paul. Fascinating cinematogrophy, fantastic storytelling (this as ever).
I finished the second half this year and used to live on it. It’s a bit of a life long obsession. This is fascinating thank you
Really interesting. I didn't know about the new work on the Ridgeway, though I live close to Dunstable Downs and have been there often.
I don't see a particular reason to see the route specifically as a retreat, but it certainly does make sense to say if it extended to today's coast, and that wasn't the coast at the time, then it surely extended further.
crazy how so many content creators put out doggerland content on the same day! im loving watching all these
Odd isn't it!
@@pwhitewick some would say it's a coincidence, others a conspiracy....me, i'm just happy to have interesting stuff to watch:)
Paul, what a great talk and open thinking.
Thank you
Absolutely fascinating. I love your enthusiasm and knowledge, thankyou
You don't need the Ridgeway to be a 'safe route for refugees'. It was a traderoute in later ages, and will have been exactly that even if it stretched into Doggerland. It also went past Avebury et al, down south to henistbury Head, where it connected to trade with what is now France. maybe the NE part went up all the way to Denmark and Scandivania?
Fascinating stuff.
Yes, I love the topic but the idea that it was a refugee route doesn't work for me. The sea levels would have been rising far too gradually to require a single emergency route out from Doggerland. The people of that time would also already have been living in parts of mainland Britain and been familiar with various routes in and out. Conversely, for the Storegga landslide & tsunami event(s), well that would have happened far too quickly to allow all the people to trek or canoe away along a single route. They would either have died immediately or survived as they were already on higher land or their canoe was washed ashore, no time for all treking along a path. I think !
Nevertheless, the idea that the flood/submergence of Doggerland could have created some long-lasting flood myths is good and valid. (Personally, I think this explains the lost land of Atlantis ...)
As you say, it was a major trade route for regular traffic from the Bronze Ages onwards (Britain was the source of tin). The 'high way' along the chalk ridge of England is the obvious practical route for crossing southern England.
nice hypothesis Paul ...makes a lot of sense to me too
Really great video. I really enjoyed learning more about Doggerland. Many thanks.
A fantastic Ridgeway Mystery video there Paul
Truly brilliant channel! And a brilliant theory that makes sense. Fascinating
From watching old episodes of "Time Team", it's amazing how much of England's landscape was changed by humans.
The Peddars Way and The Icknield Way both lead to the coast near Holme Norfolk. It's been suggested that there was perhaps a ferry in ancient times, crossing the Wash thereby avoiding the marshy Fens. However, at low tide near there and at neighbouring Old Hunstanton, you can walk out miles.....
Maybe Seahenge was an ancient ferry terminal 🤔
Fascinating ideas. Thanks for a very interesting video!
I’m late here but I loved this video, the History and The Ancient World of Britain. I never knew about The Ridgeway until you told its story. Thank you Paul
Nothing late here my dude. Allllll good
A few years ago a young lad was walking down the beach at Spurn Point on the east coast, & picked up what he thought was a piece of wood. It turned out that it was actually a length of focilised mammoth tusk that had washed up.
Fascinating theory,and makes for a great story,much truth to this and an obsession with high places,it fits
The tsunami event may have contributed to the use of hill forts, not just defensible againt aggressors but also pretty handy against big coastal waves.
Interested in what was the cause behind the tsunami?
Thanks for the well made video mini-documentary presented with a good dollop of enthusiasm.
My favourite subject - the change in the coast line. Excellent video Paul.
Thanks, more to come!
Excellent concise video, It's inspired me to look into any research around whether the propensity of settlements on top of hills is more due to this flood event in dogger land and not necessarily just for military defence. It could well be that like you mentioned that social memory lingered on so they built accordingly.
Hi Paul,
Back then when the sea levels were 300' lower the Ridgeway must have been really high.
What an amazing find from dogger bank.
Excellent video, well done, all the best!!
Thanks David.
Sea levels have not risen 300 feet in the last 8000 years. Current estimates are between 18 to 20 metres - 54 feet to 60 feet. Think about it. Dogger Bank was at the surface around that time. It is now about 20 metres below the surface.
@@thedogfather5445 You make a very good point. I suppose the prominence would be the same as it was back then anyway.
A NASA report on sea level rise makes interesting reading: After temperatures reached their maximum the ice sheets continued to melt for 8000 years until reaching equilibrium!!
Isostatic rebound should not be ignored - elevations of regions is not the same now as it would have been closer to the glacial maximum, of which both ice loss and the weight of new seas will contribute
Excellent stuff Paul, thanks! Doggerland history and geography interests me greatly.
Really enjoyed that Paul. Please take care
Super episode, especially nice to see Mary-Ann Ochota involved in this project
That was excellent. I’ve visited parts of The Ridgeway many times and ‘am fascinated by the story of Doggerland and had wondered if databale finds either ‘side’ could suggest deep trade routes in and out of southern Britain to Continental Europe via Doggerland. So whether your theory is right or not, and I suspect it has truth, this was eye opening.
R
Such an interesting story and your interpretation makes sense. It also explains why it is littered with monuments over the eons.
Well put together video and very informative. I was about to some to the same conclusion before you said it. It’s a good possibility that they took to higher ground to protect themselves
I live in a City, that is now considered the Edge of the Fenlands, of Anglia, Our local Historic site, has historic Round Houses, but also wooden walkways across the wet lands, left by the ancient Tsunami, Thank You Paul for bringing us this Knowledge,
Wow what a video. So,interesting.thank you again Paul For telling us about all these little gems.
Thanks Shirley
Your videos are always superb. Better than some expensive commercial productions. Well done.
Thank You Paul. Excellent research and a lot of work to put together.
Ridgeway Path goes twice in Buckinghamshire, the Ridgeway Path is next Icknield Way. I was born and lived in Wendover and the highest of Chilterns Hills the Haddingtom Hill which in Halton and next to RAF Halton.
Very interesting video linking possible patterns of migration and human settlement when what is now called, 'Britain' really was part of what is now called, 'Europe'.
Sunday's are my favourite RUclips day and Mr P. Whitewick is top of the pops 🎉
I like your theory, Paul… let’s not forget that that tsunami may well have had seismic changes - just think what damage was done in February 1287 in East Sussex and Kent with rivers changing course and old Winchelsea being lost under the waves…
People move back and establish farms on volcano slopes after a couple of generations of an explosive eruption. The flooding of the Black Sea didn't cause a depopulation of the surrounding lands. Traumas make great legends, but I suspect that people moved on that route because it was comparatively easy to traverse.
I'm sure you're right. I like a little romance once in a while though
9:10 there is a Time Team Special that looks at the tsunami. Tony said that the wave went to North America and broke the ice wall holding back that freshwater inland sea. This fresh water came rushing back, and is what completely covered Doggerland. The ocean currents did not stop.
That fresh water sea must have been huge, as it covered parts of what is now Manitoba and Saskatchewan.
If you consider the Icknield way to be the extended Ridgeway then it already goes to Royston. You were hinting that it may have ended at Dunstable at 3:12 ?
Yep very true. Not specifically but I'm sure it went through it. If that's what you mean?
@@pwhitewick I'd only traced the Icknield way as far as Royston, mainly driving on business trips, but I see from the field alignment that it probably carried on past Duxford even though it's well inside the land of the Iceni by then.
this is a really cool documentary changes the way I see this middle bit of south england
I came upon this from a different angle: having observed that there has been a large brick making industry ( which requires clay and sand) in bedfordshire and curious to know why woburn SANDS is so called, i did some googling ( well duck duck going actually) and discovered a geological band extending from the wash to the dorset coast which relates to this huge swathe of land being under sea. So it seems to me the ridgeway was originally a coastal walk.
Brilliant, I've been wondering about this - was there once a water channel (or even a temporary flood) that flowed diagonally south-west from the Wash, dividing England into two ?! It looks that way on the map and you've confirmed it ! (Though I was thinking that it ran from the Wash to the Bristol Channel.) Is this the official academic explanation for the band of clay & sand running from Dorset to The Wash?
Thank you for another great video, look forward to each update.
Cheers Paul
Thank you for making absolutely brilliant 😊
All very beautifully put.... I'm convinced! Makes total sense!
Probably 25 years ago I bought a book on cycling the Chalk Way. It is a slightly different route of today’s version. We did the southern part of it. Started at Weymouth . Headed up through Dorchester, Shaftesbury, Salisbury, Marlborough ended in Wallingford before heading home. We had to divert a few times and hit tarmac due to time constraints. I’d like to give it another go now it’s an official route.
Very interesting! I must climb Hadrian's Wall and visit the Great Chalk Way some time. Great video.👍
Thanks,mate! Totally intriguing!
History with Kayleigh & Miniminutman have their trifecta 🤩🙌
I agree that these pathways may have been used as an escape route. However, they must have been already known, and used for the people fleeing the water to know about them and take them. It could be that they were as much of the ceremonial landscape and connectivity of the peoples as Avebury and Stonehenge were. Perhaps they were pilgrimage routes or trade routes? It is know that trading existed, by the goods that have been found from European areas during archaeological studies.
Thank you for sharing your theories and understanding of events. I look forward to seeing your videos every week.
Thanks Sarah. Yup, I guess in truth this would have gone south not just to Doggerland, but perhaps the southern end existed long before and continued into France
In Doggerland, the River Thames was a tributary of the River Rhine (not shown!). The Rhine flowed north into the infant North Sea south of Norway.
My graphics need attention, I know, I know.
@@pwhitewick For migrations (to higher land), rivers are very important!
Really enjoyed this. Very interesting stuff. 😊
Awesome, thank you!
@pwhitewick actually that comment was wrong...I enjoy all your vlogs .. haven't watched a bad one so you are doing all right 😊
Fascinating. Apologies if repeating other comments, but the theory suggests the Chalk Way (now called) was an escape route from sinking lands to the north east. The people ever moving further south west believing the lands behind them could go under (even including East Anglia and South Midlands), so always looking over their shoulders. Perhaps making primitive sacred sites along the way as offerings to the gods in the hope these would save them, these sites later developing into larger more complex sites (?). Thanks!
Excellent. Thoroughly enjoyable and interesting.
channel , progress amazing, Paul you must be proud of the quality of content.
Thanks, thats very kind. Yup, definately proud and keen to keep learning.