Labour must rejoin single market and tax wealth | Andrew Marr | New Statesman
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2023
- Both Jeremy Hunt and Rachel Reeves agree that economic growth is key for the UK, but they have very different approaches.
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Andrew Marr explains why Labour’s £28 billion pledge on the Green Revolution won’t cost as much as the Tories are making out, and why Rachel Reeves should be bolder on taxation, and consider re-joining the single market.
Read the full article here: www.newstatesman.com/politics...
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Andrew Marr is Political Editor for the New Statesman, and is one of the UK's most senior political journalists. He spent over 20 years at the BBC where he was Political Editor and hosted the wildly successful Andrew Marr show. He is now based in Westminster where he brings his deep experience of political reporting to his analysis of the most important events in UK politics. He also hosts Tonight with Andrew Marr on LBC Radio.
Watch more videos from Andrew Marr in this playlist: • Andrew Marr
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Wouldn’t it be great if politicians focused upon what’s good for the country and their employers (the electorate) rather than themselves and their party? One can wish.
sadly they'll both fail because they both fundamentally misunderstand the powers of the public purse and of the government as the monopoly issuer of our currency. So long as we condemn ourselves to austerity, the country will not grow
Increasing public debt is bad for the country, but often good (in short term) for the electorate, as the personal costs go down, credit is cheep, etc. Doing what's good for the country AND the voters isn't the same thing.
We're not and have never practised austerity. And interest repayments are now the 2nd largest slice of the government spending pie. Next ?@@grimaffiliations3671
The two are interrelated.
I think the error that is so regularly held in politics is that the public inherently hate taxes. It's true nobody likes them, but what we hate is taxes for which we see nothing in return. If Labour raised taxes but it was to pay for something we would see the benefit of, for an energy company and infrastructure owned by the state and benefiting the people then that is a fair trade, we pay for things day to day all the time, what we want is a return on the money we the people are investing in the country. Taxes should be returned to the people in services, opportunities, safety nets etc, when they are taken or raised and we don't feel like anything more is given to us in return then that's where the problem lies.
The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
There does need to be some effort made by Labour to underscore what taxes could do to benefit the wider country and individual people in specific. Unfortunately they are too afraid to because they know that every word will be twisted by the Tories and the right wing media owned by the ultra wealthy. I'd like to think they will be bolder in government but a) that isn't a given, even at this point, and b) I'm not terribly confident they will.
In fact the arithmetic suggests higher taxes need to be paid for fewer/worse services. A government needs to be honest that with increasing dependency (more pensioners taking healthcare and pensions) with no growth and restrained migration can only mean more work for those still in the workforce, with higher taxes. That’s just mathematical reality. Increasing debt is an option but potentially if funded by QE will be inflationary. It’s a real bind. I only see wealth taxes as an option as there is only so far as income taxes can take you. Otherwise this doom loop might be impossible to pull out of.
I would agree for myself. It's a bit like our trains, I have no issue paying £60 for a train to Newcastle. What I take issue with is when that train is late or I have to stand for half the journey cos the train before was cancelled. I don't like paying through the nose for mediocrity.
I do feel that many British people simply don't get taxes though. The number of times I've heard 'why should a pay for the NHS? I'm healthy.'
I feel like the UK is in dire need of infrastructure repair and upgrades on the level not since since those that took place after WW2.
and tax on the banks. why do they only pay 2%? after the ridiculous amounts of extra income from high interest on mortgages.
and stop ALL the tax loopholes. im sick of paying a higher tax rate than the very richest.
Its because the Banks have to compete with other Banks, dumb-balls, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
It's to do with power. Rich have power because of sponsorship and/or investment ability relatively low organisational effort required. Less rich people's only power is collective bargaining, either through voting or protest, which is much harder to organise. Using power is the only way to effect change.
As Mrs Thatcher said, Socialists often start by distributing wealth. They forget it first has to be created.
You only provide new jobs if you generate more wealth and build up more businesses. It's Government's task to see that the citizen is not overtaxed, not over governed. Then private enterprise can get on with the rest.
The truth is, Mr. Chairman, that the creation of wealth is the most fundamental of all social services. For it is the wealth-creator alone who has the enterprise, the resources and the vigour to build the business which will put the unemployed back into work.
You cant tax wealth because it will just move go ask the French they tried it and it didn't work.
Who are these socialists you speak of? Certainly not in the Labour Party!
Investment in the UK is too focused on non-productive assets, like houses and gold. We need to get our money out there working for us, into things like factories and skills.
100%... and both Houses and Gold are static assets, relatively low risk safe havens that do not deliver real value add and cumulative value outside that of speculator type bidding.
Marr is a rejoiner, the UK can not compete with Chinese products (have you not noticed this ?) until AI fully kicks in. The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
There going to be a problem German economy is imploding right now. All their people are retiring. Which means would be France what would have support the EU and they not going to do that so you going see the EU brake up soon.
You could take a trade deal with the United States but it would be totally humiliating deal and your not desperate enough take that deal right now anyway. But if inflation get really bad then we see. Good news is that America is over producing oil to the tune of 14 million barrels of oil per day this force the Saudi to flush the system again which means oil fall to below 50 dollar per barrel of oil which is good news for the United Kingdoms.
@@Madame702 Not really we are doing trade deals with individual U.S states whose economies are bigger than most european countries, don't need a deal with the U.S as a whole.
Marr has really found himself after leaving the BBC. His analysis is first class and now he can speak his mind, he has a lot to say. What he says is absolutely on point, some of the most insightful analysis I’ve ever heard.
Absolutely true. In a world of misinformation, a straight talking and informed personality like Marr is more important than ever.
Sorry, but his analysis is that of a one eyed Keynsian*. We are up to our necks in debt and yet he advocates MORE spending, apparently by taxing those that have been frugal. What needs to happen is a reduction in state spending, concentrating on what we actually need, like infrastructure, rather than just social BS like housing illegals immigrants. *If he’d actually bothered to read Keynes properly he’d understand that spending was supposed to happen in the bad times (covid?) followed by a period of LOWER spending. The politicians always conveniently forget the second part.
@@curryattack8985 yawn, more austerity that hasnt worked eh?
@@kanedNunable Labour aren`t the answer...
@@user-jn1qe9og5n No they are obviously to blame after 13 years in opposition!
Marr absolutely nails it in this one, most insightful analysis I have seen in ages.
He is very good. I like listening to what he says even if I do not always agree and he is definitely a serious figure but it sounds like you need to do more reading around issues if this is all a revelation to you. Others have said similar things for years.
Sir Kier has ruled out rejoining the single market because it would mean free movement of people and possibly joining the Schengen area. It won't happen unless the EU changes the rules of membership.
@@enochpowell27 The tail tries to wag the dog again. Cherry picking even before you come in? The UK expecting to change the EU to accommodate your delusions? Out means out. Stop bothering us in the EU.
Marco, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
@@enochpowell27it will happen and the new generation of British plus the once Brexiteers who have finally come home will happily accept those terms, because they want prosperity and a future for the following generations. The prodigal son will return. It makes sense.
You’ll get no growth under this generation of Tories. We’ve had nothing at all good since 2010. They have no clue.
America is struggling to get buyers to purchase new bonds to increase the debt. The UK can’t borrow its way out of this.
No, but it could do the right thing, as a Real Green Guy in a fake-green Neo World Order, and crash the economy so preferably around 10 million people leave, with a huge Nationalist element involved, so the Mass Immigrants move out en masse instead of in this time. While we're at it we could end the notion of Government and Taxation as organised oppression and robbery are simply sick, warped systems of domination run on FORCE & FEAR.
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Conservatives, The Far Left all demand Powerful Authorities and a criminalised population. These types deserve to be deported, as a Real Green Guy. Governments just add another layer of corruption. Competition and reviewers competing on impartiality, plus independent orgs highlighting issues, VOLUNTARILY FUNDED.... Just as the welfare system should be.
The US isn't having trouble selling bonds, and even if it were, that wouldn't affect the government's ability to fund it's priorities. Bond sales do not finance government spending
What financial news are you reading. US bonds are selling like hotcakes and the US economy is the envy. It’s a 27 trillion dollar economy growing at 5+ % - that’s crazy!
Of course they should tax wealth and claim unpaid tax instead of punishing the sick and disabled.
Joni-condom, Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Max exodus of the wealthy to a friendly place. Would you stay ?
They already do tax wealth, and to record levels. If you've paid stamp duty, and stamp duty surcharge, you've already had a taste of it. A lot of working people have a good chunk of their wealth in their pension funds - which typically they built up through working for decades, and was contributed to, as per the law, by their employer as well as the employee. Would you tax that wealth? Definitely that would cause people to save less for retirement - they divert to other assets that were not taxed (or taxed less). Or would you tax property? There's already a stamp duty surcharge on second homes, but many with serious wealth own property through LTD companies, so how would taxing property work? What would stop people downsizing, and in some cases buying two homes through a LTD company? If you put a wealth tax on investments, people would not invest beyond the ISA (which would discourage people from investing, and that would harm business and the city - one of our main success stories in a rather dismal outlook). A wealth tax is very problematic on almost all levels. Wealth generation is the only show in town really...
A wealth tax is always so attractive - but you end up punishing those that worked hard, saved, and invested. By the way, if you think the money from a wealth tax would go to the sick and disabled, think again. Much more likely to go on politician's hare-brained schemes (HS2 anyone), or putting asylum seekers in hotels at 8 million a day. I wouldn't trust a politician with 50p pocket money...
@@jjefferyworboys8138 - you are correct, but actually the very rich wouldn't even need to leave the country - they have already got a good chunk of their net worth secured in ltd companies, or in offshore trusts managed in secrecy jurisdictions like the Cayman Islands - they don't actually need to move abroad. It's the less wealthy like myself, who don't have enough to justify the cost of the offshore trust. I do have some land and a house in the Philippines, and it was always meant to be a bolt hole for just such emergencies. Let's see what happens...
@@jjefferyworboys8138if one cared for one’s country, for one’s people, for one’s culture. One would pay anything to remain in these sweet isles.
Peasants with money who aren’t sure they can continue to perform well, will think like you.
Remember when the Labour party backed the "diesel economy" with heavy investment, how did that work out?
Always look forward to Andrew Marr and James O' Briens take on politics, they bring facts to their opinions, makes it understandable to anyone who listens. Calm and direct.
Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
JoB was only right on Brexit.
His attacks on Corbyn were apalling biased and full of lies.
His unwavering support of Starmer at all costs also shows his terrible takes.
Now with him excusing or defending Israels genocides people are finally turning on him.
Prefer marr myself
O'Brien doesn't get Brexit still, his arguments are apples and oranges compared to a Leaver like myself. That's poor journalism to not understand both sides.
OBrien on politics😂 that’s the best comedy in a while.
Interestingly, rejoining the single market and taxing wealth more are both existing Green Party policies.
Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
The Green Party ran my local council for years. They presided over an illegal payment of hush money to the outgoing CEO. A ban on blue badge parking which was in breach of the Equalities Act. Allowed a private business to expand their premises blocking off a major road into the city centre making it inaccessible to not only commuters but pedestrians too. Failed to address dangerous levels of air pollution in the city centre and did nothing to drive a green agenda.
Don't see myself voting green anytime soon to be honest.
The Green Party believes in unrestricted immigration; that "all migrants are citizens in waiting". They're therefore the most pro-concrete and asphalt Party in the UK. They're saying that we need to reduce our carbon footprint and consumption levels, but we also need to make it easy for as many consumers and producers to move here as possible.
Reopening Brexit is never going to be a way to harmony
Thing is: SM membership is not for random 3rd countries like little brexitannia. ICYMI.
Greetings from the EU 🇪🇺
It's 2023. Why aren't taxes proportional to the inequality index? Have the super rich invested in building healthy societies.
Not sure but the top 10% pay 90% of the tax. Study history and then you will see that Socialism,Communism or even Maoism (which Marr was a self confessed one) has never succeeded in any economy so why do you think it would now which is what you're suggesting. Happy to be corrected if I've misunderstood your post.
The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
@@AdrianSamstop 10% absolutely so not have 90% tax burden, that is pure lie
@@AdrianSams That may be true for Income Tax, but poorer people pay much more of their money on VAT.
@@AdrianSams yeah, I think you'll find it's the 9% that are paying this much vaunted "90% of all taxes" canard.
1, they are perhaps paying 90% of all PAYE income taxes....because dear boy.....they have all the income.
2, PAYE is not the only type of taxes collected in any given country. The top 10% most certainly do not pay the bulk of the consumption taxes
3, wealth taxes hitting the top 1% are beyond necessary at this point, for the parasite class are contributing sweet FA while having their snouts firmly in the trough. They need to be shaved down to size.
And 4, your dogmatic exclamations about socialism....are of course, nonsense.
I met someone who knew Maynard Keynes. Quentin Bell. Virginia Woolfe's nephew. At Fitzwilliam college Cambridge in the 80s.
The drive, the testing of limits on knowledge and innovation, the entrepreneurship that the British people displayed from the mid 18th century to the late 19th century is all gone. All that seems to be left is the haves wanting to keep even more and the have-nots wanting to tax everybody and everything. No one, whether politicians or business leaders able to provide the drive, direction, goals and determination needed for a successful future for Britain. Just a lot of little people bickering with one another, trying to stay in power and retain the status quo. What a sad future for a declining, decaying Britain.
John, you fundamentally misread the situation. 'and the have-nots wanting to tax everybody and everything' ... twaddle! 1. Yes, everyone needs to pay tax, that is the price of living in a civilised society. The right wing has, since Thatcher, convinced working and middle class people that tax is evil. Why do they do this? Because they don't believe in a workable safety net or a social democracy of any kind. They believe in 'dog eat dog' economics, in which the 'makers' - those smart, risk-taking superior beings - deserve to rake in as much as they can and to making their slice of the cake bigger and bigger. 2. They have convinced the plebs to support cutting off their nose to spite their face with the fairy tale that 'you too can be rich, if you work hard enough'! So keep those taxes down! So what, if you can't get an NHS appointment, your seaside is full of sewage, the roads and bridges are crumbling? We have to make those rich people happy ... in case, one day you find yourself in their ranks! If you are poor it's because you aren't trying hard enough or you want a safe workplace that costs too much, or a living wage. Cheek! Want proof? Check the data on the exponentiallhy growing income and wealth gap and the data on the decrease in social mobility since the destructive days of Maggie and Ronny. Do yourself a favour and ead 'Capital in the 21st Century', by Thomas Piketty.
it all started when we left the teaching of Keynes for the teachings of friedman
Ironic when extolling the benefits of foreign direct investment that you show Manchester City's stadium yet a vast proportion want to do everything possible to punish them for investing in the business rather than loading it with debt and to stop it happening to another club.
First the industry and production lost out to china and recently technology and associated services are being lost to places like India. The government need to ensure that big buisness are not able to offshore jobs at the expense of UK population. Any savings from offshoring goes to shareholders dividends. How can you expect growth if there are not enough well paid jobs ?
Our manufacturing base was wrecked in the 80s before the rise of China. European countries, Japan and Korea had that.
Too complicated, just make people hate people who don't have the same skin colour as them
@@sandran17 not necessarily so. Most offshored jobs are those which require people to be skilled and educated. Not everyone falls into racism and bigotry. Secondly offshoring is a contributor to trickle down economics and only benefits large corporations.
This a dirty secret of big business. Offshoring of every sort of job to mostly to India is endemic. It’s also used to mask uncompetitive offerings to the market.
Labour needs to adopt Georgist economic policy. Scrap council tax, introduce a 1% land value tax (both raise about £40bn, but council tax is paid by the renting class, whereas land value tax is paid by the rentier class). The least bad tax is a land value tax. Land value tax is the only unavoidable tax (you can't hide land).
?? Would simply get passed on to those who rent. No help at all.
@@mrgrumpy771 Even if it were passed on (would take too long to explain why it wouldn't here), renters would still be paying less tax overall bc the passed on lvt would be lower than the council tax they were paying. Read up on it please, it's more viable than it sounds.
100% agree
What about land owned by overseas based shell companies? That will be the dodge.
@@timonsolus They can hide, the land can't. As long as a cheque arrives at HMRC, it doesn't matter how many layers of shell companies are masking the origin of the cheque.
Absolutely. If you want "the fastest growth in the G7" joining the single market and redistributing wealth to invigorate investment and productivity makes sense.
The. EU. Says. No!
EU Rejoiners won't accept it, kills off their chances totally as most things Remainers want are a few areas of the single market.
Keep taking the tablets mate....it ain't going to happen. NO rejoin SM and no redistribution under a Labour Government.
Sto, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
How do you know that re-distributed wealth would be used to "invigorate investment and productivity"? Is it not more likely that the re-distributed money gets spent on benefits for the people who refuse to work and the country sees no actual increase in productivity?
A couple of fundamental issues with the premise of rejoining the EU, first the issues that led to a democratic exercise to determine we left still exist and second, there are countries in the EU that will not agree with the UK rejoining.
Like all the Eurozone countries 🎉 UK will not be allowed to come back. And Brexshit is not even done yet.
As a UK citizen, I totally understand the apprehension. The behaviour of certain members of society towards the EU, combined with the arrogance of the tories displayed during the negotiation process, leaves the UK a lot to be desired for...
Can I just say the behaviour of the tories during the brexit Saga is not condoned by all the British electorate.
Facts are that the question pertained to EU membership. Irrespective of what the campaigners spouted. All leave voters had their individual reason for voting to terminate EU membership. It was not all about reducing immigration as the campaign made it seem. It was fraught with propaganda and dishonesty, anyway.
I even know leave voters that preferred us to be an EEA member, as opposed to EU members. Reason being is that we wouldn't have to be part of the customs union, thus being able to strike trade deals further afield, but remaining part of the crucial single market which is a benchmark of the British economy. That is a rational reason because EEA membership does allow that. Once again, they voted to cease EU membership only.
It was the corrupt tories that wanted the UK to be completely disassociated with all dynamics of the EU. EEA membership was even proposed to Theresa May, but she rejected it. Remember the outspoken brexiter Nigel Farage, he was even in support of the EEA option due to the opportunity to strike further trade deals. He understood that the single market is beneficial for our economy and the opportunity of the youngsters.
The type of EU withdrawal was never put to us. In 1994, Norway (an EEA member) also had a referendum on joining the EU. They narrowly rejected (52/48). They were evidently happy with their EEA agreement because it granted access to the single market.
Boris Johnson delivered a hard bredit which took us out of the single market, customs union, and education related programmes (such as Erasmus)... It didn't have to be this way.
Opinions have drastically shifted within the electorate, primarily towards being part of the single market. Yes, there is still the ideology of British exceptionalism present within the tories and some of the electorate. However, I will assure you that the number is diminishing. A lot has changed in 8 years. A realistic option that I would propose is that we seek to join EFTA and EEA. It would allow us the crucial single market membership. I know that we wouldn't be able to partake in major decision making practices. But I do think that would be in the best interest of the EU to not have us do that. Especially as we were touted as an awkward member.
I'm just a 26 year old, wanting the best outcome for my life and other citizens. I believe EEA would be the most feasible option. It was absurd to leave the single market in the first place.
I wouldn't be so sure about Europe not wanting us back. They have seemed relatively enthusiastic about us getting closer in other ways, and I think this will logically extend to a renewed membership at some point.
Do not tell us in the EU what we will do.
@@fintonmainz7845 Okay mister representative of the entirety of Europe. I could just pay attention to what Ursula Von Der Leyen is saying, but I appreciate I should have consulted Fintonmainz7845 first.
will they let us keep our currency? Always wondered why we were given the huge advantage of keeping our currency and thus being able to carry out our own fiscal objectives
@@grimaffiliations3671 The Euro is not, as much as it may seem, an arbitrary punishment inflicted on European member states. The core idea of the Euro is that a shared currency makes trade between the member states easier, and hence is an advantage for the states in question. It would certainly make our re-ascension much easier if we were to adopt the Euro, but I'm relatively confident that it wouldn't be a barrier to re-entry if we didn't. After all, many of the eastern European states have also opted out of the Euro, and as the UK economy becomes more similar to theirs than that of France or Germany, you can see the justification for doing something similar similar here. Though the ones in eastern Europe are primarily under the assumption that they will eventually join the Euro, so perhaps there will be some contention around it.
@@_xeere Adopting the Euro would be nothing short of a disaster. I get that it has it's trade perks, but we would essentially be forfeiting our ability to conduct our own fiscal policy in ways that align with our domestic objectives. We are in a unique position today, as one of only a handful of nations on the planet that issues our own currency and takes up debt exclusively in that currency. Because we have this super power, we can never lose control of our interest rates or enter a sovereign debt crisis. Our central bank controls our currency, and thus can produce however much of it is necessary to pay for our obligations. We can also overrule any market driven moves in our interest rate.
This is not the case for euro users, since they do not control their own currency, they can literally "run out". And since they can run out, the market is able to jack up their interest rates to account for this added risk. This is why countries like Greece and Spain saw their interest rates explode after 2008, while ours remained pinned to 2%. This is also why those countries remain plagued by high levels of unemployment. They can't produce their own currency so they do not have the fiscal capacity to pursue full employment
Sadly neither of our parties understands our unique powers as a monetarily sovereign nation with the ability to produce our own currency and use it in furtherance of our priorities. We shackle ourselves and act as though we have the same constraints as these monetary dependents because we've bought into decades of fear mongering about "deficits" and the "national debt".
Well done Andrew enjoyed that. Hope Labour can do the 3 card trick and get the economy going again.
So we rejoin under what terms? If we do it must be from a strong negotiating position not cap in hand. This is a incompetent piece by Marr.
Tony_Bollocks, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
@@adrianpyne2272 Better to swallow your pride and fess up to making a massive mistake than burying your head in the sand and letting things get worse
we just fucking rejoin@@adrianpyne2272
A quick question. When and how do you expect Britain to be in that positivo? Because at the looks of it, that's an utopia.
Thatcher and Reagan agreed to remove the top tax rates and fairness has gone downhill from there.
All roads lead back to the huge cuts to the top rate of tax made by Thatcher in early 80's which disproportionately benefited the wealthy, this effectively "baked in" austerity for future generations and has left governments no option but to under invest in public services and infrastructure.
£billions that could have been invested by government has simply disappeared into the Bermuda triangle of overseas tax havens.
it only bakes that austerity in if you believe we need tax revenue to fund our priorities. This isn't the case, anything the government wants to fund can be funded through deficit spending. People don't consider this because of how scary deficits are as a concept, but deficits don't mean the government is spending money it doesn't have. It just means it's leaving more money in the economy than it's taking away. As long as we don't spend beyond our productive capacity, deficit spending is harmless
@@grimaffiliations3671 If you're arguing for Modern Monetary Theory, that means you must oppose the UK joining the Euro.
@@georgesdelatour yeah
Very sensible, balanced as always. Really enjoy your analysis and insight Andrew. Keep it coming!
I miss te arguments for the EU to let you lot back in? You used up all goodwill. Now you have to offer something to be allowed to come in. Besides you have to fulfill Copenhagen criteria. Not a single word on that. No single word how you need to appease the insulted and economically hurt countries in the EU.
The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Do you ever wonder why you feel poorer than you did 10 or 20 years ago ? Its all because of the failure of the EU over decades. Consider how much the EU has already declined relative to the United States. Fifteen years ago, according to the IMF, the GDP of the Eurozone was just under $14 trillion, while the U.S. economy was marginally bigger.Today, the Eurozone’s GDP is just under $15 trillion, a modest rise by any standards. But the U.S.’s GDP has roared ahead to $25 trillion, making its economy 60 per cent bigger than the Eurozone. That’s a lot of relative economic decline for the Euro area in just a decade and a half.The failure of Europe to keep pace with America has taken its toll on living standards. The average EU country is now poorer per head than every state in America bar Idaho and Mississippi. In 1990 America accounted for 25 per cent of global GDP, the EU a little above that. Today, America still accounts for 25 per cent of global GDP but the EU’s share has consistently slipped. It is now just over 14 per cent and falling. America has outperformed the EU on every economic indicator that matters. Since 1990 the U.S. working age population has risen from 127 million to 175 million, a rise of almost 40 per cent, while Europe’s has gone from 94 million to 102 million, a rise of only 9 per cent. We need less EU and a lot more USA
@@RealMashThat's a bit naïve. The UK was a big loss to the EU and would be a big gain if we went back in. Remember also that only a tiny minority were actually insulting to the EU, that those who voted Remain were more strongly motivated towards the EU than most citizens of other EU countries and that rejoining is now a positive choice for the UK through which we can very directly demonstrate our renewed commitment to the EU.
There is nothing balanced about this presentation at all. It clearly has a left agenda and very pro Labour or did I watch another video
Great, balanced interview. Nice not having someone making sense and not being interrupted all the time.
This is pretty well spoken, nice to hear someone well-respected like Andrew Marr repeating some of the calls from a lot of the more sensible wealthy people for a tax on wealth. It's absolutely true that at a time when working people are taxed so heavily (with so little in return given the state of public services) yet those who make their money from ownership and 'investment' (which to be clear, these days is mostly just buying up all the assets and clearly isn't spurring much innovation or growth else the last 4 years would've been fantastic) get off almost completely tax-free and often don't have to pay a penny back to society for sitting on their arses, this isn't sustainable, it isn't fair, and it must change
A simple lie travels faster than a complex truth. The challenge that remaining in the EU had was there'd been 6 years of Tory-caused problems which had been falsely blamed on the EU, e.g. immigration when we needed those migrants and now it's tripled post Brexit. The complexity of the remain argument lost to the simple lies from Boris et al.
The argument to rejoin EU risk being too complex for the average voter, it should not go to a referendum, too divisive. I'd like it to be in a manifesto and the parliament then just passes a rejoin bill, which would begin with rejoining the single market. We should just let the anti-truth leavers just age out of the population.
Don’t forget ATAD, a massive hidden driver behind Brexit.
Geek, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
I don't disagree with the sentiment (and I voted remain, incidentally) but I think you're going to see populism brewing in the younger generation too; whether that convinces hearts and minds across the generations remains to be seen; more so if Labour don't pull out all the stops.
It was said by Farage recently that he was pleased to have met a lot of avid young campaigners. This isn't neo-liberalism any more; this is something maybe worse and it is emerging all over the world just now. Once upon a time, people like Nick Griffin spoke like something out of a bad comedy, now the former home secretary parrots the kind of language he and the BNP used EVERY DAY. And the papers are lining up behind it, lest we forget. The telegraph was never a nice paper but its headlines read like The Daily Mail's these days.
We're seeing the hard-right manifesting in Holland, France could well follow; the United States speaks for itself. Persuading a future generation to engage with the EU may depend heavily on what the EU stands for and for what we stand in relation to it. I dearly wish Brexit hadn't happened, even if it had become a neo-liberal project by the point at which we left; but it's done. If the EU survives and maintains democratic norms, if we avoid WWIII, if the EU will even take us back, if we begin the slow process of re-building our continental relations: we might rejoin. And were that to happen without a referendum, it would likely have to happen beyond the life span of the voters that voted for brexit, so you've - at best - got some waiting to do - at worst - no chance come hell or highwater we will join again within the foreseeable future.
I'm content that freedom of movement undermined UK sovereignty, drove down wages, job training. Numbers put pressure on housing and medical care and housing. EU wanted to ditch vetos, now voted for. They wanted an EU army now happening. They want to take in more poor members now happening. Eurozone is a disaster and will go pop one day. How are those things lies or down to the Tories?
Otherwise known as "If only others were as clever as me they'd have voted the right way. Which, shock horror, happens to be the way I wanted them to".
Over 40% of highest socio-economic classes voted leave.
Do you think we should have an IQ bar for non EU referendum issues? That would mean Tory party in power in perpetuity. Or only on issues where the result goes a way you personally don't like?
If UK wants to join single market than all of their trade deals will be void, cos they will have to abide singe market rules
That would be a good thing, since the previous deals we had under the single market were better.
Andrew,
Yes to rejoining the Single Market ASAP as it will be a tremendous positive to the UK and it's people, especially the young.
No, to wealth taxes of any kind.
Citizens who have invested in businesses (either existing or new ones) or the markets have taken tremendous risk, including losing their investment, and deserve to be rewarded.
Remember this about "Taxing the Rich" it's now quite easy to leave the UK and take your accumulated wealth away to some other smarter country, which is very happy to welcome you!
"Yes to rejoining the Single Market ASAP "
Joining the Single Market is not on the table for the UK.
@marinusvos it depends on what process we seek to do that. EFTA and EEA would allow us that single market membership. We didn't have to leave, in the first place. It was the tories that dragged us out. We were only asked if we wanted to be an EU member. That's it. It's absurd what these tories have done to the country
I really feel like Andrew Marr has his finger on the pulse so much more than any of the current politicians in government. I hope that whatever government wins will follow these points he's made as it's desperately needed.
Stu, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
There is only one government right now. The Conservative one. Labour are not the government because they haven’t won a general election since 2005. At best they are a future government.
Spot on
We need publicly owned power generation. All we do currently is send our money to foreign companies, only paying vat into the uk. EDF abd the like make a fortune and we’re paying so France can have cheap power.
In fairness, this is a Labour policy
Doctors' salaries are too high? Perhaps factor in their unaffordable pensions before you start claiming they are underpaid. My friend's daughter qualified as a GP but took a four day contract so she can have more leisure time safe in the knowledge she will be highly paid and have a great pension. Another GP told my wife that our children should study medicine as it is a 'great job for women who want children and time off'. Value for money the tax payer does not get.
Andrew, I think you've got it right and what you've outlined and suggested are the sanest ways forward for Great Britain.
Thanks so much for posting.
Enjoy these summaries every week. More people should be watching these
Paul, what dogs muck, Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Andrew Marr is so right. Uk, one day, might join the European Economic Area. That would help !
Will not happen, already vetoed by Norway. Reason was simple UK is too big and too troublesome for that select group.
@@abbofun9022 You omitted that the UK as a member stiffed Norway and jumped ship to the EU. Betrayal has its consequences. And you think the EU will forgive you for your actions? Oh Boy...I as an EU ctiizen will not. We have seen your true collars, and you flag the skull and bones. No, thanks, no pirates in our rows.
Robsie, what dogs muck, Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
@@abbofun9022: Yes, the UK would have to break up before that would be feasible. I recommend Irish reunification and the 6 independent states of Scotland, Wales, Northumbria, Mercia, Wessex, and London.
@@abbofun9022It's just sad however you look at it. We didn't even have to leave the single market. It was the tories that dragged us out. We said we didn't want to be a member of the EU, only... that doesn't all leave voters wanted to leave the single market, too.
EEA membership was offered to Theresa May during negotiations, but she and her MP's rejected it because they are corrupt and extremely right wing.
Not sure the EU want us back.
Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Good
You’re absolutely correct about small businesses giving up on exports. We used to send the odd item to Europe. It was a tiny part of the business but it wasn’t rare. Now we just tell them to buy locally as we can’t justify the time doing the paperwork.
Business adapts.
Yep, the customers bought something else, it was easier for them.
Nonsense. @@jimwest7107
But yet the emergent data [ ONS UK Trade Bulletin 12/19 to present ] shows UK exports on a continuous upward trend since its democratically mandated exit from the European Union.
@@thegrandmuftiofwakanda There was a pandemic at the same time which killed exports everywhere. We are still below pre-pandemic levels.
Very insightful and clearly explained. The Swiss have a wealth tax, and it's one of the wealthiest countries in the world.
Shahz, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
I think you might be confusing cause and effect
ALL significant taxpayers in Switzerland negotiate deals with their respective cantons and municipalities. If the local canton isn‘t pliable enough there always is one that is.
@@wjekatmost people never look behind a jazzy soundbite like eat the rich etc.
@@wjekatyou are talking about the "forfait fiscale". And I agree this is offered by several Swiss Cantons. However, there is a Swiss wealth tax paid by "ordinary people" also.
Very well said. The Tories have shanked the economy and their Brexit did nothing to slow immigration. And the economic cost - real money lost -has been many times higher than what we paid for membership. Single market access needs to sooner than 2nd term. We need a grand fudge, maybe Swiss style agreement to give us equivalent access while keeping us outside the political structures. And they need to find a way of locking us in so the Tories cannot reverse it later.
Immigration would be even higher than now, possibly over a million a year if we still had free movement. Much of the increase is students paying for higher education, and the special arrangements for HK and Ukraine. It will only increase over time with the planned EU enlargement to include Moldova, Serbia, Kosovo, Albania and Ukraine. In terms of the economic cost we avoided paying the £100 Billion the UK would have had to raise as a net contribution to the EU Covid fund (given the Netherlands are paying 40 Billion Euro and Ireland 17 Billion Euro with populations a third and a tenth of the UK respectively). No one can predict the future liabilities for contributor countries that the EU Commission can invent.
Going to US-style taxation where people cannot escape UK taxes by going ex-pat would also help. That doesn't mean you get double-taxed, that simply means that if you leave the UK to a lower-tax domicile, you end up paying the difference to the UK. Being a UK tax exile should not be a thing.
And then, the cherry on top would be saying that if you're wealthy and give up your UK citizenship that's treated like dying as far as UK taxation is concerned. I.e. you pay death duties on your estate as you give up your UK citizenship.
@@catinthehat906 what rubbish. it was never anywhere near that number during the EU years. We’re going to have to engineer economic growth somehow otherwise we are fast heading into poverty
@@petersmith6520 That's what the Oxford based The Migration Observatory say.
ONS estimates show three main explanations for this 561,000 increase in non-EU immigration in 2022 compared to 2019.
"International students. The largest single group explaining the rise was international students and their dependants, accounting for 43% of the increase. The UK has an explicit strategy of increasing and diversifying foreign student recruitment, and it is also plausible that the reintroduction of post-study work rights post-Brexit has made the UK more attractive to international students.
Humanitarian visa routes and refugee resettlement accounted for a further 30% of the increase in long-term international migration. This follows the introduction of visa routes for Ukrainians and Hong Kong British Nationals (Overseas) status holders. These two routes make up almost all of the arrivals under the ‘Humanitarian’ category in Figure 3.
Skilled workers: 24% of the increase in long-term immigration from 2019 to the year ending December 2022 resulted from those arriving for work purposes-particularly skilled workers-and their dependants. Health and care was the main industry driving the growth. The increase in skilled workers is not solely the result of the post-Brexit immigration system but also higher demand for workers who were already eligible for visas under the old system, such as doctors and nurses."
Remember people who arrive on work visa's do not have the right to stay permanently (unlike FOM), they have to reapply every 5 years.
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/
Where are you getting it from that Brexit has cost more than several years of membership fees? That's about £60bn.
A sovereign debt crunch is going to seriously disable governments ability to do anything. The public sector won't exist into the 2030s. Welcome to the end of party politics as we have known it. And your precious EU.
I am not embarrassed to have worked hard to buy a house and had the prudence to save for retirement. My generation of “boomers”, ( I’m 70) are not responsible for the current mess. We lived in the time we were born into and worked hard to rise up out of the poverty of the 1950’s.
We haven’t “had it good”; it was bloody hard and our achievements should not be taxed.
Tax Amazon and the corporations making obscene profit. Tax the fat cats, not the people.
Absolutely. I have what I have because I’ve worked 50-60 hour weeks for most of my working life, I’ve paid tax on the money I’ve earned and paid council tax. When I was unemployed my benefits were reduced because I had savings to pay my mortgage. The state has given me very little. I’m putting money aside to save for the future and labour want take that away, they want to stop me using isa more than a certain amount, take away benefits like pension because I’ve put money into a private pension. All while they fail to tax people at the top.
Absolutely right, Labour needs to honest with the electorate and tell uncomfortable truth and that leaving the EU was a gigantic mistake.
Why do you prefer technocracy to democracy?
@@tomtd Don't understand if Starmer states that openly and puts joining the Single Market a manifesto pledge and people vote for it why is that undemocratic. I'll tell you what isn't in our Parliamentary democracy is having referendums and abiding by them, they are by law only advisory having no more legal standing than a poll. It's voting in elections that count.
@@michaeltagg492 Joining the Single Market is not on the table for the UK.
Spot on analysis as always Andrew 👌
Andy-Bollocks, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
As always clearly presented and interesting insights? Thanks Andrew
All Marr has done in this video is prove once again the things he suggests are things that have been tried and tried again and again, and they don't work.
Intelligent perspectives from an informed host.
I think we’ve got a growing shadow economy with very little being done to reduce it. We’ve also got huge corporations taking bigger and bigger slices out of business income e.g. Amazon, Google, etsy, ebay, paypal etc. then paying very little tax.
Bang on here. Look at all the money leaving our shores to Amazon purchases, and the fact that they paid something like 18m in tax to UK based on profit last year. No doubt they made all their profit in the US.... tax the recipient and the problem is solved. What about all the 40m mansions where they only pay circa £250 a month vouncil tax? Should this not be scalable? Change it to tiers which are equivalent of 0.5% of property value for example, maybe have bands too..... so many people in these mansions pay hardly any tax, middle earners on PAYE are propping up the entire country as far as taxation goes!
I agree. But it will never happen. Having said that, ok, after 10 years, to allow a demographic change, then yes, hopefully there will be a louder voice to rejoin
How very democratic of you
Another vote in 2040s would be entirely consistent with the 2016 messaging from both sides.
@@jamiecook8239if a democracy cannot change, then it fails to be a democracy. The 2016 referendum has not set the country on one path forever
@@dunnomate3587 "when demographic change" hoping for less or no more of a demographic????
Or does democracy only work if it goes your way???? You seem to remind me of a man with a funny tash in 1930s Germany, he was voted in
By the time of the next election it will already be 8 years since the referendum. There will be millions of voters in their mid twenties who were unable to vote in 2016, most of whom would no doubt prefer to have remained. Millions of older people will have died since 2016, somewhere in the region of 15% of the electorate, the majority of whom will have voted to leave the EU. Demographic change has happened and continues to happen.
Andrew, you forgot to talk about massive corruption, that is a parasite on a public money, not to mention big energy and water companies who are charging arm and leg for giving a bear minimum....nacionalisation and very strick fight against corruption, would lift peoples hope and believe in fair society and with that cimes optimism for brighter future and growth
Starmer has already said that he will not tax wealth nor join any part of the EU. False hope to think he would, even with his record of lies and backsliding on every promise he ever made.
If he was really bothered about the people of the UK then starting with the electoral system, the house of lords, the role of Monarchy and the Church in state affairs. This would ensure that the Tories could never again be in power and attack the workers, the poor and vulnerable in society for their own gain. No chance of this happening either😢
Edit. Spelling corrections
Couldn’t agree more. If Starmer did a U-Turn on his current position with the EU, the would be obliterated at the next election after their victory. The EU argument is over and is not worth fighting. The EU has got his own problems atm. The House of Lords and the monarchy are definitely up for debate.
I don’t believe a word from KS, but want current Govt out. Little real choice
Insightful and informative. It makes no sense that capital gains tax is not payable at the same marginal rates as income tax from gains made from property other than the primary residence and from investing in quoted stocks and shares without actually providing capital for expansion/new ventures. Rejoining the common market is an essential long term goal if we are to achieve sustainable growth.
Could someone finally grasp the nettle and start properly taxing wealth held in overly complicated secretive tax avoidance companies/trusts based offshore? Much of this is held in British overseas territories/crown dependencies such as Jersey, British Virgin Islands etc. The amount of businesses and property held in this companies is obscene, should be the case that if an asset trades or is based in the UK, it is taxed as a UK concern regardless of where the paperwork says a company is based. If you don’t pay, lose the asset. Will never happen unfortunately - the City of London is heavily involved in creating these tax avoiding/money laundering enterprises
Plain no. It is completely immoral and anyway you cannot even measure wealth let alone tax it. It varies every minute, just think shares values. The concept is mere greed and envy, of the useless and non saver and builder of personal, or family wealth. The spendthrifts who always run out of money. We need to stop spending, or more, stop the constant wanting stuff and services for free, and backing ever more spending, backing the greedy wanting pay rises from the public purse etc.
The problem we have in the uk is the tory media
Ha ha ha. like what?
Guardian, BBC, Channel 4, Mirror and Sky news are all LEFT wing.
Totally agree - well said!
Mar is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Thank you so much for this breakdown Andrew. Made thinks easier to understand
Marr? he seems a bit dense to me.
Spot on as ever Andrew.
Tax those who produce nothing: journalists, lawyers, accountants, bankers, and all of those middlemen that just push paper and charge two hundred pounds an hour or more.
A great deal of wealth,not all wealth, is created by the state. What else but wealth creation was,and is, quantitative easing? Very selective in the creation of wealth. Either to those who already had some and/or ability to receive credit. They need to pay some back to those who had no opportunity.
Keynes was a "free-market" libertarian, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
QE drives inflation. It is good for the haves that get to access the money first and terrible for the have nots that see their wealth eroded because of it. QE drives wealth division. Biden's inflation reduction act is inflationary since all the spending is from borrowed (newly printed money). It is a spending bill with a thin veneer of political spin on top of it.
Spot on Andrew as always. We need a PM who thinks like you!
Not some idiot who gets upset over some marbles most Brits don’t even care about.
We need a politician who puts the country first. Sadly you won't find one in the rabble that are bought and paid for globalists.
Absolutely right. We need a system that we all have to except that make it on your own, is not enough we have to do this collectively
I’m not an economist but in my opinion the problem is that British people simply don’t have enough money to spend. Wages are just awful compared to other developed economies.
About 'rejoining': does the average 'Rejoiner' really understand what a future joining would entail? The UK would not be grandfathered in, like in 1973. Current rules apply, such as meeting all of the Copenhagen Criteria and adopting the euro. The rebates negotiated by Thatcher are off the table now. The UK would need to be full in, for full price. With those facts known, would a majority still want back in?
UK citizens should also be (made) aware that admission is not a run race after voting 'yes'. Applying for membership is the UK's prerogative. Accepting the application is the prerogative of all sovereign (see what I did there?) EU countries and territories. And acceptance means: a unanimous vote. One non/ nein/ nao/ nee/ no/ ochi etc. and the application is denied. EU house, EU rules. Can British constituents swallow their pride and accept the possibility of an 'Application Denied!' scenario?
Which is a very realistic scenario for decades to come, considering the facts that a) it was the UK that chose to leave, b) the UK left in a very unpleasant manner, and c) UK government and media continues to be quite unpleasant and negative towards the EU and all that it stands for. Why on earth would the EU want such a country back in? We have enough unreliable and meddlesome member states to deal with at the moment, there's no reason to add one more.
Brexit is done, and the EU moved on. It's the UK that still struggles with the effects of Brexit, but guess what? That's a *domestic* problem. And not the EU's problem.
How come the UK was allowed to keep it's currency last time and why did other countries not demand the same? That was a huge advantage
Rejoining the Single Market means free movement. There is a reason why Starmer is taking this sensible line. We had a referendum on EU membership and most people voted out on the basis of ending free movement and ending the supremacy of the European court. It would be wrong for UK to be a vassal of the EU. You wouldn’t expect Japan to join the Chinese single market for Canada to join the US single market. This obsession with trying to shackling us to the continent needs to end. Tbh the way the EU is going, it might to last very long with far right parties taking over.
OK, none of us like taxes but we truly hate taxes when the money is not well spent.
One thing about taxing wealth is that if wealth produces income then it is taxed already. If wealth is non income producing then the tax has to be remitted from post tax income, or post tax capital gains. So, income tax at up to 45% the find perhaps 1% tax on £5M of assets, take another £50,000 from the 55% of income remaining. A cash-flow problem arises. Governments need to live within their budgets like the rest of us, and provide only essential services.
People inheriting 1 million pounds for doing absolutely no work, just because they had rich parents. Why is that such a popular policy? Doesnt it go against eveything we claim to believe in? But somehow people will never back wealth and inheritance taxes. So interesting and so tragic.
What about the people Andrew mentions here - Those who refuse to work. They get given huge amounts of money "for doing absolutely no work". How can we ensure that society encourages all to pull their weight and worklessness drops to zero?
That's because the Tory press has tricked them into thinking they will save money, when in fact 99% of people won't inherit because their inheritance has been spent paying care home fees.
Gentlemen, ever heard of:
1) SM membership exclusively being for EU members and SM preferential access only for EFTA members?
Apparently not.
2) as of 2023, the UK barely meets 50% of the accession criteria.
3) the sole decision makers in the UK potentially being permitted to join a 2nd time are the EU27(+). Expect plenty of vetoes from the 27(+) national parliaments and their electorates, some of which have referenda on EU applicants.
4) many an EU member profits from Brexit. Unless vous rosbifs manage to convince the people to deliberately give up on said (economic and political) benefits of Brexit - those will veto little brexitannia.
That simple, really.
Greetings from the EU27🇪🇺
Edit clarification
Indeed, English entitled wishful thinking as usual.
@@maartenaalsmeer Groundhog day, dear Maarten, groundhog day. And these people from a self-declared 'think tank' are supposed to be the experts. God help little brexitannia.
Greetings from Bavaria (40+ cms of snow here, since Saturday 🙄)
I can't see any courage in the Labour front bench. As much as I loathe the current iteration of the Conservative Party, I won't allow that sentiment to be the only reason to vote Labour; it has to demonstrate itself to be worthy and it still has work to do on that issue. I don't want hyperbole or dogma, but I do want an acknowledgement of the dire state of public services (including the military), failing infrastructure, an antiquated tax system that is under-enforced, an overly burdensome welfare state and a complete absence of long term national priorities. That really isn't much to ask of someone who wants to govern! Mr Marr raises important points, and all politicians would do well to THINK about them. The public, for its part, needs to grow up, to engage with politicians and realise that society can't work without them. There are good people in politics, some are even clever, and they need to be supported and encouraged (by all means, root out and expose the shits).
I can't even send presents to my friends in Europe lol
How about they produce some wealth before they tax it?
There's plenty of wealth already. The problem is that the Tories won't tax it. Nor, probably, will Starmer's Labour. The UK economy is hopelessly skewed towards allowing greedy unscrupulous people to profit off the majority and letting the crooks keep what they've stolen.
The wealth has already been produced. There are a record 171 UK billionaires in 2023. How about your next post contains something worth reading?
@gio-oz8gf to be fair they haven't produced any weath, just taken it. So I think the 1st comment has merit 🤷♂️
A decrepit infrastructure and degenerate government do not help productivity.
how about you stop rimming the elite?
I have no intention of voting for any party that allows legitimate immigrant to be paid 20% less than a “native” worker. Fair pay applies to all workers wherever they work.
Abolish the agencies or make them pay everyone the same and this issue goes away. Have you not thought of that?
Janie, stop making up stories, Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Labour has said it would abolish that policy. However, while I understand the argument that it is unfair to domestic workers to pay immigrant workers less, the policy only applies in certain sectors and those sectors are understaffed to the point where they can't serve the needs of our country. In my opinion, the needs of service users more than justifies any unfairness to domestic workers.
I would also point out that, given our rapidly ageing population, this will only become worse. Look at Italy and Japan.
Tax avoidance should be an obligation. Mandated theft from the private sector to pay for the bloated state should be the crime, not avoiding the removal of the fruits of you labour 'because the government needs it and can spend it better than you'.
We're firmly on path to a Soviet economy.
Nobody will do what's necessary. What's necessary will be very painful. Not doing what's necessary will be worse.
The Tories certainly have delivered - Chaos and destruction are easy to deliver. The confidence in Labour will grow.
sadly labour are committed to the same austerity as the tories. None of them understand modern monetary theory or the power of the government as a monopoly issuer of our currency
@andrew I completely agree with you that growth is the key. We do need to invest our pension funds in the UK, EU and America, but growth is faster in teritories like Malaysia, Saudi Arabia and Singapore. These teritories will grow faster over the next 20 years so we need to ensure our investments are relatively well diversified. I would love for UK to rejoin the EU, but it will not happen in my lifetime. How we get a better deal with the EU we need a different government to the one we have now. The entrepenurial spirit neads leadership that encourages that and not leaders who are just looking to win power and stay in power.
"The entrepreneurial spirit needs leadership that encourages that " Yes, I agree 100%, and that is exactly why a wealth tax would not be a good thing...
I wouldn't vote for labour as it stands but the 2 simple policies, join the single market and tax the extremely wealthy, labour would definitely get my vote
Same 👍
Don't worry, you won't be getting those two polices, you can vote green or lib dem and throw away your vote.
That can only lead to disappointment since the UK cannot join the SM.
You can back to single market but you cannot write regulations if you are not member of European Union, so it is better rejoin to European Union.
No, neither is possible. EFTA made clear that they wouldn't want the UK, so no SM access. And EU membership is also not possible because the UK doesn't meet the requirements (Copenhagen Criteria). And even if it would meet them there are several EU members benefitting from Brexit. They would veto an application from the UK. So thrid country status is a given for the next few decades. Remember: you wanted that.
Andrew, God bless you for your analysis.
Another video with english claims of simply joining the EU SM where that is not even an option, followed by a comment section filled with praise for the insight and analysis of the maker of the video.
For the last 3 or 4 years or so it has been made clear in so many ways that there is no option to be part of the SM as a 3rd country for the UK, other than by applying to join the SM that it has become painful to watch these videos and see the widespread delusions at the same level of the leave campaign.
Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
You are assuming a number of things there. One, that the EU won’t let us join the SM, which I believe is wrong. I believe that they would welcome us back, but only when there is a groundswell of opinion that ensures that it won’t be reversed again.
Secondly, there is an assumption that the British will simply tolerate falling standards of living from Brexit ad infinitum. I don’t think we will. There are many of us that think that leaving the EU has been a terrible mistake, and as this becomes more and more apparent, so more will see it.
Most don’t want to face the prospect of becoming poorer and poorer compared to other wealthy counterparts, so when the time comes, they will accept that we need to pivot. It may not be soon, but I believe that by the end of the next decade, we will be back in the EU.
@@andrewcollins7867 no, I'm not assuming a lot of things.
There is no option for the uk as a 3rd country to be part of the SM. That is a fact, not an assumption. A fact always overlooked by arrogant and entitled English with their claims of an EU "welcoming the uk back" based on... assumptions on your side. The word "believe" does a lot of heavy lifting in your post.
Second, I have made no assumptions about what the uk public is willing to swallow because it is of no interest to the position of the uk as a 3rd country, and thus has nothing to do with the topic of my post.
Third, I have made no reference to UK membership of the EU, the comment was only about the SM.
It seems you are the one making assumptions.
@@andrewcollins7867 "You are assuming a number of things there. One, that the EU won’t let us join the SM, which I believe is wrong. I believe that they would welcome us back" Seriously? Accusing others of making false assumptions while believing you would be welcomed back? If you do not know something you have to believe, pretty much the last exit when arguments don't exist. The facts however contradict your belief. The UK does not even meet half of the Copenhagen Criteria to even get candidate status. It would also be obliged to join Schengen area and the Eurozone. But adopting the Euro is not possible since the UK doesn't meet the requirements. Furthermore some EU members benefit from Brexit while on the political side the EU now works much better and faster. Why should the EU and its members be willing to go back to the old sluggish days? No, the UK will not join the EU.
I would love a personal wealth cap. There is no reason to own more than 50 million. It means bussiness owners can own businesses worth more, but when sold, eveything above 50million get 100% taxed.
Frit the Marxist, Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
I couldn't agree more.
Really appreciated that.
“You cannot summon fire from mud” ! Well said Mr Marr
The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Why would the EU care about UK’s economics troubles, it’s all self inflicted. After all the misbehaving of UK inpast decade, why would they come to the rescue. We saved you once in the 70’s, why do it again?
You saved us? 😂 it was france's agri sector that desperately needed us lmao and yeah brexit hurt us but you guys try to act like losing your 2nd biggest economy and 2nd biggest net contributer didn't hurt you... yeah sure... 😂
@@robertjohn6585 no one is "trying to act". it´s simple reality.
@@robertjohn6585 truth hurts doesn’t it? UK is well on its way back to being the sick man of Europe again, just give it another few years.
@@robertjohn6585 Yes, membership in the EEC saved you. And no, the EU hasn't been hurt as much as the UK. The EU adopted very quickly. So no, it doesn't mean anything that the UK once was a net contributor. That was the past. For the EU Brexit is also the past. The only ones complaining about Brexit are the British. Now go out there, go global but go.
There are plenty of Europeans who would love to have UK back. But not in their old spoiler role, of course. I do not think UK would be comfortable as being a Norway-like member. Because then you have no power. Norway literally has to accept what EU does with no say. UK is too powerful and too, well, British for such a role. But being a leader in EU is possible. Now to be a leader in politics you have to have a positive vision. You cannot lead by saying no no no.
Sadly, I think it would mean giving up the pound, and entering the Schengen agreement. I can't really see most English people accepting that.
@@englishtime5327, given the alternative I doubt they are that important. Neither bother me.
@@englishtime5327 agreed.....but not just the English.....i feel many people of the UK will not accept giving up the pound or going into any Schengen agreement......
EU treated us as an enemy during and after brexit and have tried to 'punish' us for leaving the autocratic union ever since, so no thanks we don't want to come back because countries like Hungary, poland and slovakia have crippled the EU and nothing happens now if putin doesn't want it to...
Marr is a rejoiner, The EU is a Dangerous "federal project" which gradually requires the removal of any National Sovereignty from the member states. The EU is hell-bent on creating "a super state" to the cost of National Sovereignty
Yes, yes, yes! Leaving the world's largest and richest trading block on the planet was utterly dumb.
How about a 1% surcharge per year on properties worth more than £500,000? The people owning those properties would be well able to pay that, and it would encoruage productive use of land and property since nobody wants to hold onto an asset that's costing them money.
Taxing wealth on billionaires and stopping the loopholes they use to avoid tax is one thing, but it sounds to me like you’re talking about taxes that would simply *steal* the hard earned savings and wealth accumulated by the middle class for their retirement. The super rich would continue to pay next to nothing.
That would be theft, pure and simple.
To re join the single market we have to re join the EU.
Do you ever wonder why you feel poorer than you did 10 or 20 years ago ? Its all because of the failure of the EU over decades. Consider how much the EU has already declined relative to the United States. Fifteen years ago, according to the IMF, the GDP of the Eurozone was just under $14 trillion, while the U.S. economy was marginally bigger.Today, the Eurozone’s GDP is just under $15 trillion, a modest rise by any standards. But the U.S.’s GDP has roared ahead to $25 trillion, making its economy 60 per cent bigger than the Eurozone. That’s a lot of relative economic decline for the Euro area in just a decade and a half.The failure of Europe to keep pace with America has taken its toll on living standards. The average EU country is now poorer per head than every state in America bar Idaho and Mississippi. In 1990 America accounted for 25 per cent of global GDP, the EU a little above that. Today, America still accounts for 25 per cent of global GDP but the EU’s share has consistently slipped. It is now just over 14 per cent and falling. America has outperformed the EU on every economic indicator that matters. Since 1990 the U.S. working age population has risen from 127 million to 175 million, a rise of almost 40 per cent, while Europe’s has gone from 94 million to 102 million, a rise of only 9 per cent. We need less EU and a lot more USA
@@garyb455 Never been better off
@@garyb455 The only failure of the EU was to give the UK exceptions, opt outs and its rebate. That's gone fortunately. Better off now.
David Cameron, Prime Minister - Immigration Speech
Location:
University Campus Suffolk, Ipswich
Delivered on:
25 March 2013 (Transcript of the speech, exactly as it was delivered)
"As I’ve long‑argued, under the previous government immigration was far too high and the system was badly out of control. Net migration needs to come down radically from hundreds of thousands a year, to just tens of thousands, and as we bring net migration down so we must also make sure that Britain continues to benefit from it".
Well said.
There is no mechanism to get back into the Single Market other than through full EU membership
I was just about to point that out. There are a lot of rejoiners who seem to think the UK can just join the single market and negotiate some bespoke arrangement, and then eventually refoin the EU.
The fact that you have to join the EU first doesn't seem to sink in.
@@maartenvandam344 Yes, it's amazing how widespread that opinion is, constantly repeated even by people as informed as Andrew Marr.
Taxing wealth/ land/ income of the rich ( delete as applicable) is not part of neoliberal ideology. Labour is a neoliberal party under Starmer, on the same page as the Conservatives. It surrendered to this poisonous ideology under Blair and Brown. The whole rationale for neoliberalism is to transfer wealth to the rich, hence the grotesque inequality in Britain. High taxes for the rich are not part of the project at all. The Blairite ascendancy under Starmer is a continuation of this after the Corbyn interregnum. The post war Keynesian consensus is the only blueprint for the future but there will be no Keynesianism under Starmer. Labour has already made it clear that it will be implementing Tory policy. The Tories are obsessed with the fallacy of balanced budgets at all costs, which justifies austerity, also satisfying their need to punish the poor and shrink the state. It is not just about the last 13 years- it is the last 43 years that need to be reversed. Keynes is not even taught in many universities such is the dominance of group think but his ideas hold the key to national revival. But Starmer is not going to deliver anything like the 1945-1951 stimulus required. No vision, no bold policies, ergo no Keynesianism.
Labour has to take that route because almost entire population of England aligns with the Tory Economic and in there spite of socialism, they will never vote for a Corbynite Labour party. The rulers are just the manifestation of the populace.
@@maverickkhan2718No; not almost the entire population. Only 65% of households are owner occupiers. But give it time, and that will shrink.
Everything falls apart with your second sentence. " Labour is a neoliberal party under Starmer, on the same page as the Conservatives". Maybe you should find an accurate definition of neoliberalism.
Wrong. Absolutely wrong. Even more wrong.
@@gio-oz8gf On the contrary. If you had been paying attention you would know that Thatcherism was a deliberate reversal of the post war consensus ( neoliberalism is one and the same thing, in case you are confused). That was its whole point, to reverse the excesses of state power as the right saw it, reduce taxes for the rich, smash the unions to weaken workers' rights, shrink the welfare state, privatise state assets, and let the market decide in most areas of the economy. I have a good understanding of neoliberalism but it sounds to me like you need to work on a better grasp of political and economic history.
The truth is that UK policies have little ability to improve economic growth but an almost unlimited ability to destroy economic growth - the Liz Truss budget fiasco being the most recent example of that.
Inappropriate taxes can quickly destroy economic growth but low and appropriate taxes do not have a matching ability to supercharge economic growth. What UK government policy can do is to improve the underlying infrastructure of the UK economy to encourage investment growth. Infrastructure in this context does not just mean roads and railways but ports, broadband and education/training (labour market infrastructure) and crucially green infrastructure and green power. Sadly that is a long term policy and politicians are very poor at that, they want quick wins even when that is the wrong long term decision - this is not specific to any political party but applies to all parties.
Whilst I agree with Andrew on the need for more tax revenues he has missed a clear issue - there is no evidence that the UK economy will deliver any more tax revenue as a %GDP than it currently does (other countries manage it but the UK never has outside of war times). The only way to get more tax revenues is to grow the economy, but the only way to grow the economy is for govt. to spend more money on infrastructure.
As for capital gains tax, the current system is a mess of incoherence. There are too many exceptions, arguably the wrong rates and the latest changes of eliminating the tax free allowance makes it even less coherent. I would suggest that capital gains be taxed in exactly the same way of income - there is one single tax free allowance which an individual can apply to income, capital gains or any combination of the 2, and thereafter income and capital gains are treated as the same and taxed at the relevant income tax rate.
As a remainer, I am of course in favour of re-joining the single market, I just cannot see it happening in the next 10 years. And Andrew is wrong about one thing, we are not the same as the French or Germans in one critical area - how laws work in the UK is completely different to how they work in France or Germany and that has deep and profound effects for how we, the UK people, consider what type of laws should be passed and how govt. should work.
Low growth is arguably the consequence of an ageing society. You have low growth all over the rich world, including Europe. The US is the exception but they are a younger society driven by immigration. I think the next Labour govt could really struggle. Labour should focus on solving the housing crisis, build council houses.
the US also commits to large amounts of government spending. They understand that growth can only come through government deficits for any nation with a trade deficit. This is because the 3 sectors of the economy (private sector, public sector and foreign sector) can't all be in surplus. The only way for the private sector to run a surplus (which it needs to do to stay out of recession) is to draw that surplus from one of the other sectors. And since it can't draw the surplus from the foreign sector because of our trade deficit, it must draw it from the government
This is one of THE best political channels nowadays. Marr is absolutely crushing it.
If labour take us back into the EU there would be an outrage
Labour cannot take us back into the EU without a referendum. Andrew expressed his view that in the future we will probably be back in the Single Market. That is not the same as being in the EU.
@IanMcKie Thank you! It still blows my mind that after all these years, people don't grasp the operation of the EU... EEA membership grants EU access, for example.
'The same old ideas will work this time!"
Sure ...
The new ones certainly aren't working
This is amazing. Thanks for the explanation
Labour shouldn't put it on the ballot at all. They should enter government, expose the interference and law breaking during the campaign and declare it null and void, blaming the Tories and Vote Leave for throwing away people's vote and ignoring all the wrongdoing that happened. Most people want to rejoin, most of Labour want to rejoin. We should rejoin.
Ah, but does EU want you? Meet the Copenhagen Criteria first, then apply for membership and the 27 will decide.
Speak for yourself buddy. Remain lost the vote. We’ve left the club. Move on.
Things might be bad now. But things will change once we reform the current political party’s. Both are as bad as each other. And you have no other viable choice due to the first past the post system. It’s rigged.
Ultimately, world rather be a sovereign country than part of a socialist club of unelected sociopaths. no matter the cost.
@@abbofun9022 I think we all know the EU does want us and the commission would be more open to negotiation with Labour. I think we all expect the EU to extract a pound of flesh in return, but otherwise, that's the point of a union, we're stronger together
And, thankfully, we haven't even begun to repeal laws and we're still very much in alignment with EU regulations
Whilst I'm vehemently against Brexit, I don't think rejoining the EU is the answer and I think it would result in political turmoil which is the last thing we need right now...Let's just focus on getting the country back on track...