People are gonna argue this one forever. I genuinely don’t think that there is an objective winner in any retrospect. Some day, Mario may get even more ludicrous shit that can pull over and flip this whole debate on it’s head and back and forth.
@Sleepy-Yeah yeah me and Mr.jrizz have been at it for 5 days arguing over who would win, even though I have actual evidence when he’s been just spit bawling false information
He’s arguing for himself because he’s passionate about this argument. I get while people may think this argument is pointless but in the grand scheme of things it’s just another popular what if scenario that catches people’s attention. If you don’t think that means anything to you then by all means do you. As for the people who come for the interest or to share their 2 cents just let them share their thoughts and takes on the matter. You know what I mean?
@ yes I do but I can’t help it I’m just very patient with these things, When someone disrespects my interests and belittles them I can’t help but bite back. You understand that feeling right? (Sonic forces was the last thing my grandfather gave to me before he died so I kind grew attached to the series)
So you said that Mario can counter sonics moves because of the power ups, there is one thing you fail to notice, sonic can move faster than the speed of light in his base form, how is Mario supposed to counter if he can’t even see him? You might think that he’s only faster than the speed of sound, but that isn’t his limit, it’s only how fast he’s willing to go safely. This isn’t biased, I honestly think that Mario had the better games, but in a fight. I think sonic has this one.
Buddy I appreciate you taking a jab at this this debate but I hope you know that I was debunking that power up counter argument because that gets annoying. And I literally said at the end of the video 3 reasons why sonic definitely win against sonic. We on the same team gang 😎
To be honest, I don't think this debate is ever gonna end. DB can make Mario VS Sonic 24534 and people still won't be satisfied, finding "inaccuracies", and "unmentioned feats". The same goes for "the truths" and "debunks" too. People tend to lean toward their favorite characters, making the Mario VS Sonic debate very foggy in general.
Let me let you in on a little secret. These debates are for fun honestly. If people are displeased with one side they look at the other side. You don’t have to think too hard on it. It’s just another reason to yap about scenarios that some people think will go a certain way. We’re never going to agree with each other’s arguments and that’s okay. But hey that’s just the internet for you.
You know i like your debate of mario vs sonic like i said i understand the fight i do believe sonic would definitely win a fight cause of frontiers unleashed SA2 can tell sonic is the real deal sonic have ran out of a black hole whole mario can not he got help from the Lumas and sure mario can very strong the dude pick up a castle and got his buddy cappy can use his weapons like the hammers of mario luigi series so there is some ways that mario could win a fight but cause got more powerful enemies just like perfect chaos or the monster from sonic 06 the time monster and even unleashed and frontiers can tell sonic is not to be wreck with but mario still got hope.
Everyone forgets to mention the Boo Biscuits which make Mario and Luigi completely invulnerable to everything, basically nullifying the use of Super Sonic. Also people don't bring up Hyper Sonic because apparently he isn't canon though he was in Sonic 3&K, ig because he wasn't in Sonic 3 (maybe not in S&K either).
@saltendo2177 I'll use peashooter as an example, he can keep up with beings that can destroy universes, that puts him in universal, but if we use the cosmology, i.e. pvz verse has infinite dimensions, then peashooter would be high hyperversal to low outerversal
@Tari_10_Editz So where does that put Mario and Sonic? I'm guessing Sonic is high hyperversal as he defeated multiple gods that could destroy anything and everything. Though Mario has also defeated Dreamy Bowser, capable of destroying all Dreamy Worlds, which are also universes.
Mario Speed feats: Fought Culex while travelling across several timelines, and Culex is the embodiment of Time, Space, and Matter, and can see into the past and future, so Basically Mario is so fast he defeated a dude who knows he can win because he can see into the future, and that is in Mario RPG. Other speed feats for Mario is that he was moving in a realm where Time stops completely in Mario 64, and Mario dodges Bullets, cannonballs, lightning, in a daily basis, and Mario survived getting launched across space to travel to different planets, that should above light speed in Mario Galaxy, and Mario defeated the Lord of Lightning by buttslamming on his head. Keep in mind Mario did most of these things in his normal form. Note: The reason why Lightning, Bullets, Cannonballs etc are so slow is because of gameplay mechanics, because if they were as fast as their real life counterparts, the games would be pretty unfair for the player.
Listen hear buddy this is closer then you think cause Mario Combat and Reaction speed is comparable to Sonic speed it like putting Usain Bolt against Floyd Mayweather Usage n is faster in foot race their no doubt but Floyd can punch a punching bag 200 times in a few minutes also Sonic can't use hyper or any of his other transformations due them being acudsive to the books and their worlds and the Super emeralds being in another dimension plus Mario never been push to his limits while Sonic on multiple acantion has been shown being tired or run out of stamina like with for like Dark giga the final horizon boss and other plus his power up and not going to help even with Super Sonic if Mario gets a critical hit like Knuckles did in Sonic 3 it's over plus these two would never fight their friendly rivals that compete with each other so it most likely end in a draw plus Mario has bagues and equipment from the RPG which grant him infinite power up allow him to use abilities like high jump and flutter jump and way more while Sonic would run out of stamina and get ko plus Mario dreams are other dimension aka their own worlds and paper Mario are adventures Mario already gone on with the pure heart he can nulifly Sonic invincibility and with the star spirit or star rod he has wish manipulation and his paint hammer from color splash can use to damage the emerald and drain their power like Eggman did in unleashed plus in Sports mix and Super Mario RPG he face final fantasy bosses one being able to know your future past and existing in the present making him omnipresent and this is base Mario plus Sonic when face with omnipresent threats like Soloris time eater infinite and metal overload he needed help from others like Tails Knuckles Shadow Sliver and Classic Sonic stop low balling Mario and making it seem like this fight is a no difficulty for Sonic when it's a extreme for him to face Mr video game aka the jump man himself Mario put some respect on his name
Lil bro do some more research if you gonna be writing these long essay debunks. So riddle me this Batman, where on earth did you get your reasoning for comparing Mario’s decent combat speed vs the same Mf who in Sonic frontiers is shown to be moving around the speed of light while doing combat abilities after a parry move. When Mario gets caught off guard by the parry move Sonic’s combat and reaction speed will already be leagues above Mario’s. If you don’t know what I’m talking about go see what happens when you fight the Master Ninja or Kinoichi. Also I know you got that shit from animation rewind’s video back in 2018. But you realize that in the actual fights that’s exactly how he loses which is hilarious to me. Now check this out dawg. And did not hear me say that I wasn’t going to include Hyper Sonic? Do y’all just not watch the video before y’all comment? Speaking of which, you mentioned that Sonic has been pushed to his limit while Mario hasn’t broken a sweat. And that’s why I said in the video that Mario does light work shit compared to Sonic. I even showed that it took more to knock Sonic out like the time when Sonic survived hits from the time eater in base meanwhile Mario got put into orbit by a fucking hat. If we be real for a second and give this Mf a Sonic villain then it’s wraps. And bring back Sonic 3 super sonic vs knuckles you do realize that knuckles caught a weaker version of super sonic off guard and later in the Sonic and knuckles part of the game in the hidden palace zone, ole buddy can’t even lay a finger on him. Or better yet. The fact that Sonic gets stronger over time meaning that a stronger version of Sonic could be someone like Perfect chaos, metal overlord, or even the time eater in base as it was stated in Sonic Forces that Sonic gets more powerful every second. And in base was fighting Infinite which was at the time Sonic’s strongest opponent. Later fought a death egg robot mech that surpassed infinite and the true abilities of the phantom ruby in base. So basically Mario would not lay a finger on super sonic so try again 🥱 Now next thing you mentioned was Mario using his rpg abilities and run out of stamina. With all the abilities that base sonic has like the cyloop, counter attack, power stomp, spin dash, spin slash, homing shot, multi homing shot, cross slash, phantom rush and a fully charged energy that just makes Sonic faster than he already is. Now that is no where near the amount of abilities that Sonic has is base. Like I could’ve mentioned time break, sonic wind and fucking time travel and dimension hopping but that’s a whole different topic. And you said Sonic runs out of stamina but Brody not only is that cap but even if that were true that wouldn’t matter if your boy Mario can only go faster than the speed of light at the very best. And if you think really Paper Mario is canon I got so much evidence that says otherwise. The star rod, the side characters, the lack of relation to the mainline games, the cast of characters, the fact that paper jam exists take your pick my nigga. And let’s say the abilities that were shown are canon. If we add the star spirits to “nullify Sonic’s invincibility” since there are multiple invincibility shields in Sonic’s world that restores Sonic his og invincibility defense level. And let’s say Mario did drain the power of the emeralds like eggman did. Watch Sonic adventure’s cutscene before the perfect chaos boss fight and the cutscene from SA2 when Sonic got launched into space with a fake emerald. Now this one you need to get your facts straight with this one. You said Sonic needed help fighting omnipresent gods and shit meanwhile in almost every other instance where Mario is fighting a super dimensional entity like Antasma, Culex and even in paper Mario every villain has some form of assistance. And the funny thing is like Mario wasn’t even in base. Either he’d have his friends or he’d have the powers of the star spirits or the pure hearts or the Lumas. Also sorry I forgot to mention the Star rod dear buddy dear pal chum buddy chum pal friend my chummy pal buddy boy amigo, but even if that were shown the fight but like you realize if that’s in the fight then we gotta give Sonic his flowers and give him Shara’s ring. So now they both have wish manipulation. And better yet it wouldn’t even matter because Sonic was in a dimension where nothing existed and escaped that dimension aka Null space if you were confused and then in Sonic and the secret rings, Sonic outruns an infinite space and enters the astral plan, and then Sonic frontiers and Sonic prime confirms that he can dimension hop with just speed alone so in short Mario couldn’t even wish this blue speed demon away. Mario has no way to beat Sonic nor tap in with the same power or even nullify his said infinite power and speed. Mario does have impressive feats but against Sonic they seem so minuscule in comparison. So that’s why it’s no where near close in comparison.
Even if Sonic able to move faster then light Mario avoid laster canon balls and light attacks in his perspective their slow but in cutsense outside of his perspective their normal speed like in Galaxy plus Mario way durable then Sonic being able to take hits from Bowser and survive black holes in MP6 also Sonic Iq in battle and outstarting Eggman does not give him better IQ he takes advantage of his ego and phantom Ruby abilities and hacks are illusions and Mario Wonder flowers effect reality unlike the phantom Ruby plus Mario can use power stars and grand stars to increase his powe further also yes Sonic can use chaos control but Mario has multiple times freeze items and can even use things like plunder chest to rob Sonic of the emeralds and your telling me to do research I been playing these guys games for years and I sure Sonic it multiple galaxy level at least while Mario is Universal and also is Sonic Infinite is and null space he need the rookie to defeat him and get out plus Infinite beat him twice once in the city and in the forest and Sonic in base was grab and thrown into solid rock Knockout Mario this in NSMBU and hit a tree catapulting him into ground and he instantly got up and started making his way to Peach's Castle plus he has elemental manipulation and has far more experience then Sonic does facing way stronger does like Dreamy Bowser Fawful and the dark star along side Bowser and Luigi the smithy gang from Super Mario RPG Dimentio Shadow queen from TTYD and should I go on also Even if we give Sonic his other forms Super his strong then all but hyper and if we give Sonic the super emeralds we must give Mario his white tonooki suit and white cat bell which don't die unless it a instant kill hazard Darkspine is used the only 3 of the world rings bring sadness anger and IDK the last one it's been a while since I play secret rings and Excerburn Sonic Sword may cut through anything but like infinite saying he the strongest Sonic Villain is false due to being stronger then knight and mages from Black night exist like the Titans and many of the Sonic cast and werehog trades Sonic speed for Power and stretching limbs not much needing to be said and finally Hyper has never show anything aside from defeating the death egg In S3NK and yes it's stronger but how strong we can only make assumptions due to Hyper Sonic is never gonna comeback cause it just a bonus feature due to the games being separated so I don't want here you telling me to do my research when I love both series and take both these characters feats very seriously
So I’m assuming you ranted after seeing like half of the video because I specifically said we weren’t going to use hyper sonic in this battle. I already know he’s unscalable so please stop doing extra work for yourself when I already did it for you. And you still need to do your research sorry to say it again but you clearly need to figure out what you’re scaling before doing the scaling in question. So the phantom ruby does have the power to control reality. And yes you’re probably reading this like “Yeah you don’t know what you’re talking about” but bear with me. The phantom ruby does effect the real world as it can control the fabric concept of gravity, matter, and the time where tails mentioned that the phantom ruby messed with different dimensions and timelines which is how classic sonic appeared in forces. And then the Mario party 6 black hole feat is worthless because super Mario galaxy exists showing that the Mf can not escape a black hole anymore and then later in the ending cutscene he had to get saved by Rosalina and her Lumas in order to escape the impact of a black hole. And the wonder flower is only effecting the space within our reality giving less control and manipulation compared to the phantom ruby. Now you said Sonic’s IQ does him no good in this battle due to his ego but you realize that Sonic is a Cocky Character who knows how to back up his words. That’s literally his whole character. So then what else did you say? Oh yeah Mario has many time freeze items but if you look at my 2nd video I mention that Sonic is so much faster than time he’s able to restore an erased timeline. And plus Sonic is the kind of character who knows how to move outside of time without an item unlike Mario. Now if we were to give Mario the grand star it still wouldn’t matter. We can compare this Mf against a weaker Sonic that fought a genie who has rewrote multiple timelines and universes, had wishing manipulation, and manipulated the powers of the 7 world rings all just to play god while Sonic was slowly dying. So imagine Mario fighting a healthy Sonic. Now what I don’t understand is the very first thing you mentioned at that was the speed comparison of both characters. You mentioned Mario being able to dodge canons and bullets like I didn’t mention the feats of Sonic running out of the concept of time itself. And you can numerous enemies in the Mario series they still come no where near what Sonic has faced in his history. And if this ain’t enough Sonic got super sonic. Give me some better evidence
I never said Sonic Iq doesn't help him I said he takes advantage of Eggman ego not his own also the Black hole in Galaxy is a supernova not a normal one plus if Sonic is faster then light and can travel across dimension and time his come he rarely ever use these abilities like chaos control or time stop and both Character move outside of time Mario with the Void in super paper Mario and defeated Dimentio also I not ranting on your video it good showing Sonic best feats but just because Mario fails to escape a black hole in one game doesn't mean he lose that ability in general that like saying Sonic is Slower In Sonic Colors cause he fail to escape the Black hole from. the hyper energy the wisp has both characters can sometimes be inconsistent like a cartoon or anime and yes Sonic always gets Stronger no doubt but same goes for Mario both deal with battle gods time and dimensional level threats and are Rivals that respect each other if it weren't for Mario Sonic would never exist and Sega wouldn't have competed with Nintendo if Mario wasn't a gaming Iron back in 1985 when SMB came out with STH in 1991 6 years afterwards
Ok so first I’m glad you liked the video I just wanted you to stop mentioning something I already brought. Second, sorry I was a little late to respond but I’ll make up for it. So lemme get something straight. You mentioned the rarely used Star rod, Rarely used star spirits, and rarely used Mario RPG abilities but you want to bring up why Sonic rarely uses chaos control or time stop. And then later you mention another rare ability where Mario moved outside of time back in super paper mario when he fought Dimentio and cool feat but by your logic he rarely uses those abilities so that was a terrible point you made. Also moving outside of time sonic still has faster movement than Mario so it wouldn’t matter. Now the black hole feat really speaks for itself but for y’all’s sake please don’t compare that to Sonic especially when Sonic colors was the second time he out ran a black hole when the first time it was in Sonic shuffle and then later in colors out ran a stronger black hole powered by something that’s at least on par with the chaos emeralds. And keep in mind sonic was at his slowest at the time and just got done beating eggman with that same energy. So I find it hard to believe Mario’s black hole experience is on Sonic’s level. Now lemme address the gods mario faces in question. No matter what enemies in Mario we talk about if you compare them to a Sonic enemy the comparison is far inferior than you think. Mario fought gods that can control dimensions while Sonic has done that and more with people who can rewrite and destroy timelines. Like lemme ask you something, what if we were to just put Mario against a villain like Erazor Djinn, The End, Mephiles, Metal Sonic or even Dr.Eggman? And I know there are some villains Mario can beat like perfect chaos and the deadly six but if you have enemies that literally make Sonic weaker like Erazkr Djinn and The End. My nigga Mario is cooked. And Mario never gone through that not because he’s immune or a cartoon physic character but it’s because he’s a light worker. And I’m not trying to be mean but in comparison to Sonic Mario does light work shit as I also said in the video. Mario has never been put in a situation where he was at a disadvantage or rather if his enemy had his life at his disposal and Mario in base finally clutched. That never happens, he’s either having a good fight with bowser or he needs his hax. To end this off you mentioned the fact that without Mario then Sonic would never exist and the console wars would have never happened. But that has nothing to do with this fight. We’re debating on who can come out on top in this battle. So I’m trying to figure out why are you telling me something that I already know and still prove nothing to your argument of Mario beating Sonic. If you like Mario more then just say that but if we arguing who’s winning a fight focus on that. I could just say that Sonic has better storylines and unlike Mario we actually what is and what isn’t canon. I could Sonic has better shows and movies. I could say while Sonic was inspired by Mario he sold more units than Mario (which I’m not joking go look it up) but with that being said this has nothing to do with the og argument. So with that being said do you have any other reasons you think Mario can be Sonic?🤨
Sonic saved the entire Nintendo universe
People are gonna argue this one forever. I genuinely don’t think that there is an objective winner in any retrospect. Some day, Mario may get even more ludicrous shit that can pull over and flip this whole debate on it’s head and back and forth.
@Sleepy-Yeah yeah me and Mr.jrizz have been at it for 5 days arguing over who would win, even though I have actual evidence when he’s been just spit bawling false information
@ Who are you arguing for?
@ sonic I mean he’s got the more interesting world and when I play his games my hands hurt from the intensity of the game play.
He’s arguing for himself because he’s passionate about this argument. I get while people may think this argument is pointless but in the grand scheme of things it’s just another popular what if scenario that catches people’s attention. If you don’t think that means anything to you then by all means do you. As for the people who come for the interest or to share their 2 cents just let them share their thoughts and takes on the matter. You know what I mean?
@ yes I do but I can’t help it I’m just very patient with these things, When someone disrespects my interests and belittles them I can’t help but bite back. You understand that feeling right? (Sonic forces was the last thing my grandfather gave to me before he died so I kind grew attached to the series)
So you said that Mario can counter sonics moves because of the power ups, there is one thing you fail to notice, sonic can move faster than the speed of light in his base form, how is Mario supposed to counter if he can’t even see him?
You might think that he’s only faster than the speed of sound, but that isn’t his limit, it’s only how fast he’s willing to go safely.
This isn’t biased, I honestly think that Mario had the better games, but in a fight. I think sonic has this one.
Buddy I appreciate you taking a jab at this this debate but I hope you know that I was debunking that power up counter argument because that gets annoying. And I literally said at the end of the video 3 reasons why sonic definitely win against sonic.
We on the same team gang 😎
@@TheBlackFelinefromtheend yeah sonic wins against sonic
lol 😂
To be honest, I don't think this debate is ever gonna end. DB can make Mario VS Sonic 24534 and people still won't be satisfied, finding "inaccuracies", and "unmentioned feats".
The same goes for "the truths" and "debunks" too. People tend to lean toward their favorite characters, making the Mario VS Sonic debate very foggy in general.
Let me let you in on a little secret. These debates are for fun honestly. If people are displeased with one side they look at the other side. You don’t have to think too hard on it. It’s just another reason to yap about scenarios that some people think will go a certain way. We’re never going to agree with each other’s arguments and that’s okay. But hey that’s just the internet for you.
You know i like your debate of mario vs sonic like i said i understand the fight i do believe sonic would definitely win a fight cause of frontiers unleashed SA2 can tell sonic is the real deal sonic have ran out of a black hole whole mario can not he got help from the Lumas and sure mario can very strong the dude pick up a castle and got his buddy cappy can use his weapons like the hammers of mario luigi series so there is some ways that mario could win a fight but cause got more powerful enemies just like perfect chaos or the monster from sonic 06 the time monster and even unleashed and frontiers can tell sonic is not to be wreck with but mario still got hope.
1:54 feats that are higher than sonics
That or the feats arent aligned with the each other as games pass on 😐
Everyone forgets to mention the Boo Biscuits which make Mario and Luigi completely invulnerable to everything, basically nullifying the use of Super Sonic.
Also people don't bring up Hyper Sonic because apparently he isn't canon though he was in Sonic 3&K, ig because he wasn't in Sonic 3 (maybe not in S&K either).
1 sentence
it needs cosmology
@Tari_10_Editz That one sentence wasn't enough for me to understand the full context.
What in particular needs cosmology?
@saltendo2177 I'll use peashooter as an example, he can keep up with beings that can destroy universes, that puts him in universal, but if we use the cosmology, i.e. pvz verse has infinite dimensions, then peashooter would be high hyperversal to low outerversal
@Tari_10_Editz So where does that put Mario and Sonic?
I'm guessing Sonic is high hyperversal as he defeated multiple gods that could destroy anything and everything.
Though Mario has also defeated Dreamy Bowser, capable of destroying all Dreamy Worlds, which are also universes.
@saltendo2177 the Mario & Luigi series isn't Canon
Mario vs Sonic isnt close= ❌
Mario vs HYPER/ARCHIE/SUPER sonic isnt close=✅
Bro served us a yappy meal instead of a happy meal💀
@@TheBlackFelinefromtheend
...what?
You ain’t spittin’ 🫵😐
Mario isn't touching Sonic. Nope.
But isn't doctor mario just mario?
Yes, as for the same Mario that’s up for you to decided
You can have your opinion
Mario Speed feats: Fought Culex while travelling across several timelines, and Culex is the embodiment of Time, Space, and Matter, and can see into the past and future, so Basically Mario is so fast he defeated a dude who knows he can win because he can see into the future, and that is in Mario RPG.
Other speed feats for Mario is that he was moving in a realm where Time stops completely in Mario 64, and Mario dodges Bullets, cannonballs, lightning, in a daily basis, and Mario survived getting launched across space to travel to different planets, that should above light speed in Mario Galaxy, and Mario defeated the Lord of Lightning by buttslamming on his head.
Keep in mind Mario did most of these things in his normal form.
Note: The reason why Lightning, Bullets, Cannonballs etc are so slow is because of gameplay mechanics, because if they were as fast as their real life counterparts, the games would be pretty unfair for the player.
So his best reaction speed feat is around light
Base sonic is MFTL+ soo I don't really think he stands a chance
@919X0Sonic's speed doesnt equal reaction speed..Sonic can be hit by this slower than himself which is why Mario can win..He can react to Sonic
@@TTVJOJO41323 Bruh, Sonic has immesurable speed(Sonic Gens).
Mario still wins
Fax
1:36 cause Mario is just stronger
Mhm but he can’t survive universal erasure while Sonic can survive time and space erasure😐
@ tell me when
@@MrJrizz-cv1km sonic 06 sonic generations sonic and the secret rings. Should I keep going or do you feel dumb enough already?
@ wait until you see what happens in Yoshis island
@@MrJrizz-cv1km what you mean I have seen Yoshi island. Universal destruction does not happen at all.
everyone: "mario wins and it's not even close"
also everyone: "sonic wins and it's not even close"
me: so i guess ties don't exist 🤷
I mean we could say they both solo 80% of the gaming verse 😎👍
@TheBlackFelinefromtheend fax 😎
They both tie imo yeah
Unless Sonic uses Super Sonic which one-taps Mario's entire universe
Both beat Goku
Mario can go as fast as sonic
No way buddy🙂↔️
sonic SOLOS mario
That has got to be the most intelligent things said in the versus community because it’s actually true.
faxs
Sonic 🏆 won ez🎉
Listen hear buddy this is closer then you think cause Mario Combat and Reaction speed is comparable to Sonic speed it like putting Usain Bolt against Floyd Mayweather Usage n is faster in foot race their no doubt but Floyd can punch a punching bag 200 times in a few minutes also Sonic can't use hyper or any of his other transformations due them being acudsive to the books and their worlds and the Super emeralds being in another dimension plus Mario never been push to his limits while Sonic on multiple acantion has been shown being tired or run out of stamina like with for like Dark giga the final horizon boss and other plus his power up and not going to help even with Super Sonic if Mario gets a critical hit like Knuckles did in Sonic 3 it's over plus these two would never fight their friendly rivals that compete with each other so it most likely end in a draw plus Mario has bagues and equipment from the RPG which grant him infinite power up allow him to use abilities like high jump and flutter jump and way more while Sonic would run out of stamina and get ko plus Mario dreams are other dimension aka their own worlds and paper Mario are adventures Mario already gone on with the pure heart he can nulifly Sonic invincibility and with the star spirit or star rod he has wish manipulation and his paint hammer from color splash can use to damage the emerald and drain their power like Eggman did in unleashed plus in Sports mix and Super Mario RPG he face final fantasy bosses one being able to know your future past and existing in the present making him omnipresent and this is base Mario plus Sonic when face with omnipresent threats like Soloris time eater infinite and metal overload he needed help from others like Tails Knuckles Shadow Sliver and Classic Sonic stop low balling Mario and making it seem like this fight is a no difficulty for Sonic when it's a extreme for him to face Mr video game aka the jump man himself Mario put some respect on his name
Lil bro do some more research if you gonna be writing these long essay debunks. So riddle me this Batman, where on earth did you get your reasoning for comparing Mario’s decent combat speed vs the same Mf who in Sonic frontiers is shown to be moving around the speed of light while doing combat abilities after a parry move. When Mario gets caught off guard by the parry move Sonic’s combat and reaction speed will already be leagues above Mario’s. If you don’t know what I’m talking about go see what happens when you fight the Master Ninja or Kinoichi. Also I know you got that shit from animation rewind’s video back in 2018. But you realize that in the actual fights that’s exactly how he loses which is hilarious to me. Now check this out dawg. And did not hear me say that I wasn’t going to include Hyper Sonic? Do y’all just not watch the video before y’all comment? Speaking of which, you mentioned that Sonic has been pushed to his limit while Mario hasn’t broken a sweat. And that’s why I said in the video that Mario does light work shit compared to Sonic. I even showed that it took more to knock Sonic out like the time when Sonic survived hits from the time eater in base meanwhile Mario got put into orbit by a fucking hat. If we be real for a second and give this Mf a Sonic villain then it’s wraps. And bring back Sonic 3 super sonic vs knuckles you do realize that knuckles caught a weaker version of super sonic off guard and later in the Sonic and knuckles part of the game in the hidden palace zone, ole buddy can’t even lay a finger on him. Or better yet. The fact that Sonic gets stronger over time meaning that a stronger version of Sonic could be someone like Perfect chaos, metal overlord, or even the time eater in base as it was stated in Sonic Forces that Sonic gets more powerful every second. And in base was fighting Infinite which was at the time Sonic’s strongest opponent. Later fought a death egg robot mech that surpassed infinite and the true abilities of the phantom ruby in base. So basically Mario would not lay a finger on super sonic so try again 🥱
Now next thing you mentioned was Mario using his rpg abilities and run out of stamina. With all the abilities that base sonic has like the cyloop, counter attack, power stomp, spin dash, spin slash, homing shot, multi homing shot, cross slash, phantom rush and a fully charged energy that just makes Sonic faster than he already is. Now that is no where near the amount of abilities that Sonic has is base. Like I could’ve mentioned time break, sonic wind and fucking time travel and dimension hopping but that’s a whole different topic. And you said Sonic runs out of stamina but Brody not only is that cap but even if that were true that wouldn’t matter if your boy Mario can only go faster than the speed of light at the very best. And if you think really Paper Mario is canon I got so much evidence that says otherwise. The star rod, the side characters, the lack of relation to the mainline games, the cast of characters, the fact that paper jam exists take your pick my nigga.
And let’s say the abilities that were shown are canon. If we add the star spirits to “nullify Sonic’s invincibility” since there are multiple invincibility shields in Sonic’s world that restores Sonic his og invincibility defense level. And let’s say Mario did drain the power of the emeralds like eggman did. Watch Sonic adventure’s cutscene before the perfect chaos boss fight and the cutscene from SA2 when Sonic got launched into space with a fake emerald. Now this one you need to get your facts straight with this one. You said Sonic needed help fighting omnipresent gods and shit meanwhile in almost every other instance where Mario is fighting a super dimensional entity like Antasma, Culex and even in paper Mario every villain has some form of assistance. And the funny thing is like Mario wasn’t even in base. Either he’d have his friends or he’d have the powers of the star spirits or the pure hearts or the Lumas. Also sorry I forgot to mention the Star rod dear buddy dear pal chum buddy chum pal friend my chummy pal buddy boy amigo, but even if that were shown the fight but like you realize if that’s in the fight then we gotta give Sonic his flowers and give him Shara’s ring. So now they both have wish manipulation. And better yet it wouldn’t even matter because Sonic was in a dimension where nothing existed and escaped that dimension aka Null space if you were confused and then in Sonic and the secret rings, Sonic outruns an infinite space and enters the astral plan, and then Sonic frontiers and Sonic prime confirms that he can dimension hop with just speed alone so in short Mario couldn’t even wish this blue speed demon away. Mario has no way to beat Sonic nor tap in with the same power or even nullify his said infinite power and speed. Mario does have impressive feats but against Sonic they seem so minuscule in comparison. So that’s why it’s no where near close in comparison.
Even if Sonic able to move faster then light Mario avoid laster canon balls and light attacks in his perspective their slow but in cutsense outside of his perspective their normal speed like in Galaxy plus Mario way durable then Sonic being able to take hits from Bowser and survive black holes in MP6 also Sonic Iq in battle and outstarting Eggman does not give him better IQ he takes advantage of his ego and phantom Ruby abilities and hacks are illusions and Mario Wonder flowers effect reality unlike the phantom Ruby plus Mario can use power stars and grand stars to increase his powe further also yes Sonic can use chaos control but Mario has multiple times freeze items and can even use things like plunder chest to rob Sonic of the emeralds and your telling me to do research I been playing these guys games for years and I sure Sonic it multiple galaxy level at least while Mario is Universal and also is Sonic Infinite is and null space he need the rookie to defeat him and get out plus Infinite beat him twice once in the city and in the forest and Sonic in base was grab and thrown into solid rock Knockout Mario this in NSMBU and hit a tree catapulting him into ground and he instantly got up and started making his way to Peach's Castle plus he has elemental manipulation and has far more experience then Sonic does facing way stronger does like Dreamy Bowser Fawful and the dark star along side Bowser and Luigi the smithy gang from Super Mario RPG Dimentio Shadow queen from TTYD and should I go on also Even if we give Sonic his other forms Super his strong then all but hyper and if we give Sonic the super emeralds we must give Mario his white tonooki suit and white cat bell which don't die unless it a instant kill hazard Darkspine is used the only 3 of the world rings bring sadness anger and IDK the last one it's been a while since I play secret rings and Excerburn Sonic Sword may cut through anything but like infinite saying he the strongest Sonic Villain is false due to being stronger then knight and mages from Black night exist like the Titans and many of the Sonic cast and werehog trades Sonic speed for Power and stretching limbs not much needing to be said and finally Hyper has never show anything aside from defeating the death egg In S3NK and yes it's stronger but how strong we can only make assumptions due to Hyper Sonic is never gonna comeback cause it just a bonus feature due to the games being separated so I don't want here you telling me to do my research when I love both series and take both these characters feats very seriously
So I’m assuming you ranted after seeing like half of the video because I specifically said we weren’t going to use hyper sonic in this battle. I already know he’s unscalable so please stop doing extra work for yourself when I already did it for you. And you still need to do your research sorry to say it again but you clearly need to figure out what you’re scaling before doing the scaling in question. So the phantom ruby does have the power to control reality. And yes you’re probably reading this like “Yeah you don’t know what you’re talking about” but bear with me. The phantom ruby does effect the real world as it can control the fabric concept of gravity, matter, and the time where tails mentioned that the phantom ruby messed with different dimensions and timelines which is how classic sonic appeared in forces. And then the Mario party 6 black hole feat is worthless because super Mario galaxy exists showing that the Mf can not escape a black hole anymore and then later in the ending cutscene he had to get saved by Rosalina and her Lumas in order to escape the impact of a black hole. And the wonder flower is only effecting the space within our reality giving less control and manipulation compared to the phantom ruby. Now you said Sonic’s IQ does him no good in this battle due to his ego but you realize that Sonic is a Cocky Character who knows how to back up his words. That’s literally his whole character. So then what else did you say? Oh yeah Mario has many time freeze items but if you look at my 2nd video I mention that Sonic is so much faster than time he’s able to restore an erased timeline. And plus Sonic is the kind of character who knows how to move outside of time without an item unlike Mario. Now if we were to give Mario the grand star it still wouldn’t matter. We can compare this Mf against a weaker Sonic that fought a genie who has rewrote multiple timelines and universes, had wishing manipulation, and manipulated the powers of the 7 world rings all just to play god while Sonic was slowly dying. So imagine Mario fighting a healthy Sonic. Now what I don’t understand is the very first thing you mentioned at that was the speed comparison of both characters. You mentioned Mario being able to dodge canons and bullets like I didn’t mention the feats of Sonic running out of the concept of time itself. And you can numerous enemies in the Mario series they still come no where near what Sonic has faced in his history. And if this ain’t enough Sonic got super sonic. Give me some better evidence
I never said Sonic Iq doesn't help him I said he takes advantage of Eggman ego not his own also the Black hole in Galaxy is a supernova not a normal one plus if Sonic is faster then light and can travel across dimension and time his come he rarely ever use these abilities like chaos control or time stop and both Character move outside of time Mario with the Void in super paper Mario and defeated Dimentio also I not ranting on your video it good showing Sonic best feats but just because Mario fails to escape a black hole in one game doesn't mean he lose that ability in general that like saying Sonic is Slower In Sonic Colors cause he fail to escape the Black hole from. the hyper energy the wisp has both characters can sometimes be inconsistent like a cartoon or anime and yes Sonic always gets Stronger no doubt but same goes for Mario both deal with battle gods time and dimensional level threats and are Rivals that respect each other if it weren't for Mario Sonic would never exist and Sega wouldn't have competed with Nintendo if Mario wasn't a gaming Iron back in 1985 when SMB came out with STH in 1991 6 years afterwards
Ok so first I’m glad you liked the video I just wanted you to stop mentioning something I already brought. Second, sorry I was a little late to respond but I’ll make up for it.
So lemme get something straight. You mentioned the rarely used Star rod, Rarely used star spirits, and rarely used Mario RPG abilities but you want to bring up why Sonic rarely uses chaos control or time stop. And then later you mention another rare ability where Mario moved outside of time back in super paper mario when he fought Dimentio and cool feat but by your logic he rarely uses those abilities so that was a terrible point you made. Also moving outside of time sonic still has faster movement than Mario so it wouldn’t matter. Now the black hole feat really speaks for itself but for y’all’s sake please don’t compare that to Sonic especially when Sonic colors was the second time he out ran a black hole when the first time it was in Sonic shuffle and then later in colors out ran a stronger black hole powered by something that’s at least on par with the chaos emeralds. And keep in mind sonic was at his slowest at the time and just got done beating eggman with that same energy. So I find it hard to believe Mario’s black hole experience is on Sonic’s level. Now lemme address the gods mario faces in question. No matter what enemies in Mario we talk about if you compare them to a Sonic enemy the comparison is far inferior than you think. Mario fought gods that can control dimensions while Sonic has done that and more with people who can rewrite and destroy timelines. Like lemme ask you something, what if we were to just put Mario against a villain like Erazor Djinn, The End, Mephiles, Metal Sonic or even Dr.Eggman? And I know there are some villains Mario can beat like perfect chaos and the deadly six but if you have enemies that literally make Sonic weaker like Erazkr Djinn and The End. My nigga Mario is cooked. And Mario never gone through that not because he’s immune or a cartoon physic character but it’s because he’s a light worker. And I’m not trying to be mean but in comparison to Sonic Mario does light work shit as I also said in the video. Mario has never been put in a situation where he was at a disadvantage or rather if his enemy had his life at his disposal and Mario in base finally clutched. That never happens, he’s either having a good fight with bowser or he needs his hax. To end this off you mentioned the fact that without Mario then Sonic would never exist and the console wars would have never happened. But that has nothing to do with this fight. We’re debating on who can come out on top in this battle. So I’m trying to figure out why are you telling me something that I already know and still prove nothing to your argument of Mario beating Sonic. If you like Mario more then just say that but if we arguing who’s winning a fight focus on that. I could just say that Sonic has better storylines and unlike Mario we actually what is and what isn’t canon. I could Sonic has better shows and movies. I could say while Sonic was inspired by Mario he sold more units than Mario (which I’m not joking go look it up) but with that being said this has nothing to do with the og argument. So with that being said do you have any other reasons you think Mario can be Sonic?🤨
All i heard is a fanboy crying that his goat hasn't win this time 😂...
And all I read was someone who can’t type🤡 🤡🤡
@TheBlackFelinefromtheend I think lil' bro needs to retake grammar class
And yet you don't have any arguments