178. Installing Lead Carbon batteries (12V 100Ah) into my canal narrowboat
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2019
- #narrowboat #narrowboats #canal #canals #liveaboard #cruisingthecut
At the time of filming this it was just over a week since the Crick Show where I had bought three new 100 Ah lead carbon batteries for my narrowboat. Having also bought some new wiring and dongle things to plug into my Victron inverter/charger, it was now time to pull out the old batteries and put the new ones in place.
For anyone claiming the order of the wiring on the bank doesn't matter, have a little read of this useful article: www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con....
Buy the batteries: geni.us/CtC_LeochPLC
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Theme music: "Vespers" by Topher Mohr and Alex Alena, from the RUclips music library
"Rather than have you argue about how I did it, I'm just not going to show you at all!"
Genius.
I thought so ;-)
CruisingTheCut 😉 aww, I so enjoy the comments from those basking in tubs of self knowledge. Best read with a shot or two of a favorite beverage 😀. Glad so many chose to comment anyway 👍👍
Just think how the comments would have exploded if I *had* shown how I did it! Hahaha
@@CruisingTheCut The tape on the positive terminals betrays you though .
Absolutely love the solution to internet squabbling of cutting the video feed. Brilliant!
David, I got a real charge out of this video. It was positively electrifying, and has sparked me to look into my wiring also. In fact I am so amped up I am going to outside and fly my great-great-uncle Ben's kite in the next thunderstorm!
Please don't do that!! ;-)
Great video. As I listened to you explain the connection of the solar charger I thought, he doesn't know what he's talking about, right before you said, I don't know what I'm talking about. Perfect timing.
Connecting the solar up diagonally across the pack ensures that battery link resistances between each battery and the solar connection are identical, 2 link cables in each case.
Watching your Vlogs have become a source of relaxation, winding down from a tedeous day, oh and watching whilst sipping a gin and tonic helps too...thank you David. Cheers and happy narrowboating.
That was an exciting nailbiting vlog. I stuck with it until the end, even though I hardly understood a word of what you said. I had to know how it finished, I like a good ending. May your lights never go out, and your food always stays frozen :-) Ilona
My dear CTC, another superlative vlog from you! As I said once before about an 'electrical' type vlog, I didn't understand a single word you said, but I absolutely loved the way you said it!
Blimey, that was impressive. I didn’t understand a word mind, but I’m seriously in awe of your DIY skills.
David. Still binge watching (for the 2nd time), slowly getting to the latest video again. As an ex electrician and an electronics techy (radio, tv, and transmission engineer) I must salute you. It may only be 12V but it can still be dangerous and caution is always a watchword, especially with high current situations. Your disclaimers are amusing but true. There are plenty of RUclipsrs who profess to be experts, having learnt from the comfort of their armchairs, who show terrible examples of "expert knowledge" and send others down rabbit holes or worse, dangerous installations. I and am sure others, look forward to an update on the batteries performance.
Love the “not a tutorial” disclaimers that keep you irreproachable and your OCD over safety and thoroughness!
Sparks: Danger, it was VERY Good that you checked the Voltage, when you connect batteries in in parallel the cells need to balance to the exact same voltage! If they are Not the exact same level you will get a HUGE charge to "catch up" to that balanced state. Also the exact same temperature!
Good news your battery bank was "close" to balanced, and at the same temp. Also NEVER wear a ring!
Everything about this channel is peaceful. Thats the best way I can describe it. The stress of the day just bleeds off after watching just one. Im not physician, but I do recommend a video or two from this channel for hypertension or high stress individuals.
Certainly watch other people lugging heavy lead batteries around makes me feel calm (mainly because I'm thankful it's not me doing it!)
good tip with the spanner !
YES! I have worked around cars all my life and never thought of doing that. Wonder how many times I have grounded a wrench(spanner) removing a battery.
Loved the disclaimer...and the last line you said "I'm just doing it as I understand it" seems quite the metaphor for life in general, we are all doing it (living life) was we understand it! Congrats on getting those batteries changed out without any real drama.
I've never said it before (that I can recall), but I just LOVE the creativity you apply in titling your videos. not everyone has such talent, of course, and I don't want them to feel bad with titles such as "Monday trip up the Avon to a nice pub", for example. but YOUR titles are downright BRILLIANT! I love the word play such as carbonaura, or tweaking song titles to fit a vlog. face it, lad, you're just a bloody genius at it!
Awwww thank you! :-)
I learned at a young age what it means when a battery blows up. My father and I were way back in the wilds of our farm for a Thanksgiving Day rabbit hunt when the solenoid of our late 1950s era pickup would not provide a spark. Dad attempted something I'd seen him do before, he tried to bypass the solenoid with a metal wrench. It sounded like it might work when the battery exploded directly in his chest and face. I had to guide dad a quarter mile down to the Wabash River and wash out his eyes. Luckily, that worked, and further luck was with us when dad's cousin happened to show up and give us a tow about 2 miles to the main road. There, a faster tow actually got the pickup running. The next day dad's jacket he'd been wearing was in shreds. Kinda happy electrical systems have progressed.
Ouch!! Wow.
Good tip on wrapping the spanner . The number of times I've sparked on a car
battery and never thought of doing that. Evidently I'm a complete moron
Great vlog. Anytime I work with electricity I've found that closing eyes and crossing fingers helps tremendously.
I just know when I've watched this my day is going to be much more brighter.
A former colleague of mine once managed to short out a 12V 100AH battery through his wedding ring. Carrying a huge amount of current, the ring got very hot very quickly and burnt his finger very badly indeed. So yes, your tape precaution on the spanner is a good idea and removing jewellery is also highly recommended including anything worn around the neck on chains. The reason for the little spark may be due to inverter stored charge on an input capacitor or small imbalance between batteries. Current will flow between packs to equalise them as you connect up in some cases. These new batteries are interesting, it will be good to see how you get on with them over the course of a year.
Truly David you have missed one of life's most memorable learning experiences, that being the first time you arc across battery terminals with a conductive tool! 24 volt is even more entertaining than 12, don't ask me how I know of course. Love the geeky bits, makes me feel a kindred spirit!
Hahaha
Been there, done that, on a 12V automotive one... with one of those portable work lights/lamps that have a metal cage like surround around an old style bayonet/edison incandescent 60W bulb!
Having worked in mental health for nearly 40 years. I would doubt that the last comment was a trained psychiatrist and even if he was he would not be able to do a personality assessment of someone changing their narrow boat batteries. I think most patients in a mental health environment should look at the doctors and nursing staff and think to themselves “if that lot are normal I’m well pleased with myself”. Very interesting vlog.
Hahahaha thank you, I love that.
Loved your comment about the battery sparking and making you jump.
So funny 😂.
The joy of new batteries! And the wires all in order. Great job, more tea for you. And sandwiches.
Having dealt with electrical things on my sailboat, I can say that the BEST thing you can do to know what is going on with a DC electrical system, is to install a battery monitor that properly measures Ah consumed/charged (through a shunt). Love the channel!
The batteries are not exactly at the same charge level, so when you connect them in parallel you will see a small spark possibly when they equalize so the voltage is the same across all of them.
Nice to see you are cautious. You make me smile when you talk about batteries.
Nice work - you didn't let any of the smoke out of the wires! Everything else is a bonus.
5.43 Arks & Sparks - that's where I get my shorts and shocks
Good to see you doing a current topic.
Not a single misstep in any of this video. No need to apologize at all, you did great. Cheers.
It is a very good and healthy attitude to be wary of everything electric. Keep being wary always.
Saved this video to my email, thank you. Imagine that - the box dimensions printed on the box, not the battery!!
New subscriber here, really enjoying your videos.
On the subject of which battery terminal to disconnect first and re-connect last, the answer is very simple.
It is always good practice to disconnect the negative terminal first. This comes from working on vehicles, where the negative battery terminal is grounded, i.e. connected to the vehicle metalwork. If you were to put a spanner on the positive terminal, and then part of it came into contact with any metallic part of the vehicle, you would effectively short out the battery!
Dis-connecting the negative terminal first, completely removes this danger.
Unless of course you happen to have a positive grounded vehicle...
Disconnect the grounded terminal first (nevermind +/-), then, as stated, your tool can can only cause a short against the other terminal, not any surrounded bodywork/items.
And while working on high current (capable) circuits, Remove metal case/strap watches, rings etc. You DO NOT want any of those being part of a short circuit, as they might end up red hot...
Hi David, I discovered your chanel about 3wks ago and have watched all your videos from the start, What can I say, there is a reason for your numbers being so high and I am completely hooked to see what comes next. Keep up the good work and Fair Winds !!
Thank you
I like your confident approach to life and it's dangers...just like me, check twice and cut once. Carry on like that and you should be absolutely fine. :)
Great job 😃 Enjoy your cruising vlogs but do really like the practical ones too. For me you hit it just right. Good explanations not too geeky and don't treat your audience like idiots a pleasure to watch 😁
Stewart Turner I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Looks like you have been doing your homework, which is a really good idea, with the high current available with these batteries, an inadvertent short can cause a huge mess. It's good you caught the wiring error between batteries as well.
I had never come across Lead/Carbon batteries before so, I went to the Leoch website for information which, was a bit lacking. Looks like the advantages over an AGM battery are increased cycle life, faster recharge, and improved low temperature performance. Series resistance is still quite high with any deep cycle lead-acid battery technology. With that size battery, I don't recommend trying to pull more than 10 amps per battery long term (or 300 watts out of your power inverter). You can go several times this amount for short periods (no more than a few minutes), at the expense of reduced battery voltage and internal battery heating. The lead-acid battery technology does not like heat. The maximum sustained temperature is around 26 degrees Celsius. I know many of the batteries show a higher operating temperature but, it is at the expense of battery life, which erodes quickly as temperatures rise above 26 degrees. In fact, lead-acid batteries should never be mounted in an engine compartment, it really shortens the life, and batteries are expensive. Most people don't know this because, that's the way it is generally done with cars. The car manufactures do this to save money on battery cables, they don't care about battery life. Moving the battery from the engine compartment to normal room temperatures yields double the battery life as a minimum.
The wiring around your batteries looks like it is good for no more than 100 amps. Currents are really high with a 12 volt system. For the amount of power you are trying to pull out of your inverter, I would go with a 24 volt system if I was putting together a new system (I realize this is not practical, you are stuck 12 volts).
As far as the observed spark when connecting the batteries back up. The power inverter, the solar charge controller, and probably your refrigerator, have a large capacitor bank that is connected directly across the 12 volt line. These capacitors are at 1 volt or less with the power disconnected. When you reconnect the 12 volts, thousands of amps flow at the instant the connection is made. This huge surge is very hard on switch contacts and, as you probably have noticed, takes a bite out of the battery terminals. To get around this problem, I temporarily connect a 12 volt incandescent bulb (5 to 25 watts) across the battery terminals, which does 2 things: (1) It greatly limits the surge current and (2) If the bulb does not go out within a few seconds (after it charges up the capacitors), it shows you may have a short in your electrical system.
With Solar Charge Controllers, the battery must always be connected first. Connecting the panels up without battery power can damage the controller. I know these comments were quite lengthy but, I'm hoping these tips will help others with their leisure battery system.
How does putting a bulb across the battery terminals help capacitors in other components when their circuit with the battery is completed? And surely the battery would power a bulb for more than a few seconds on a leisure battery? Can you explain or re-word what you meant about connecting a bulb across the battery terminals
David, you have excellent Victron power equipment aboard. It would be no great stretch to incorporate a battery management device, possibly Victron, to have a positive handle on battery charge, performance and their state of health. These are not big ticket items and my management meter give me extremely useful insight on my system charger, solar, battery, and engine alternator on SV Enough.
Mark Fay US MMC Jr. Engineer QMED AS-E
enjoying all of these videos - cant stop visiting canals and their pubs!!!
It's clear to me you have a very good DC electronics knowledge: more than you want to let on.
;-)
Sparky here (but not a boat or automotive one). Your new positive cable coming back from the solar controller looks *very* thin... this should be an absolute minimum of 4mm, preferably 6 or 10 mm.
You should probably also consider an isolator for the inverter, or running it through the existing isolator.
The spark is to charge the capacitors in the inverter, not discharge them.
It's funny you should mention that because I was idly sitting in the engine bay a few days ago and my gaze fell upon those cables (installed, in the early days, by a boat electrician as it was before I knew anything about solar etc) and I thought "they look a bit small" and it's since been put on my "to do" list to alter. That said, they've been like that for four years and we rarely have sunny enough days that they ever carry much for very long ... however, I do concur they should be thicker.
You do have them properly connected & sorted out so I will suggest a few things to play with for further upgrades.
1) A positive & a negative DC bus. The purpose is to provide a single connection from the battery bank eliminating multiple connections to the terminals. This also facilitates any further connections to the battery bank.*
2) A battery switch or disconnect for the invertor/charger. This is a safety feature that disconnects the invertor. If you are working on the mains, the last thing you want is the inv/ch to start inverting while you are working on something, ouch!
*The positive side of the battery, called the 24 hour side, is for a constant DC feed for pumps etc . & should have a breaker for both protection & disconnection. This would also be for the solar panels & battery monitoring. The main disconnect for the house can also be connected to this bus as well.
*The negative side of the house bank can then be shifted to a shunt with the addition of 1 extra negative cable to the DC - bus when adding the battery monitor kit. Victron does make a nice battery monitor that is quite easy to install.
The reason for doing a connection ACROSS the batteries is to prevent starvation or under charging to the lead battery since electricity flows from + to - and will not charge the preceding battery.
Such a lot of work maintaining a narrow boat. It is essential to be able to do the work yourself to keep the costs down.
Some anxious moments there, but I had every confidence that you would get it done, and done right!! Your vlogs are always interesting. I enjoy the maintenance ones as well as the cruising.
Don't forget a little bit of lithium grease or spray silicone on your battery posts and connectors so they stay nice and clean and oxidation-free. :)
I laughed out loud when you did your disclaimer....
It's all a catch 22 David.... lol... I sure hope they make your life a little bit better.
Cheers,
Chris from Missouri
I would have never thought to cover the solar panels. Thank you David.
you did a very good job
This was your chance to do a video with ElectroBOOM. Sure your boat would have ended up on fire but hilarity would have ensued.
I like your attitude. Good job! I have had a battery blow up in my face, I didn’t learn the tape trick until after. lol!
I admire how thorough you are
HAHAHA!!! what a story!!! HA HA David you should be a stand up comic!!! I enjoyed this to the fullest!!! Thanks greatly!!
David, you are over complicating things. All your three "house" batteries are connected in parallel. All the Red leads (+) are connected together, and all the Black leads (-) are connected together. So all three batteries are connected in "parallel". This means that it makes no difference "electrically" which "positive" leads are connected to external positive leads, and which "negative" leads are connected to external negative leads.
However, this is an excellent Vlog which I thoroughly enjoyed.
Hi. Yes, I know what parallel means, cheers. It does make a difference, see the link in the video description.
@@CruisingTheCut Well in 44 years in the MN this is the first time I've seen this. I'll bet a pound to a pinch of Pig guano that my colleagues have never heard about it either. I can't wait to tell them!
By the way, just before Christmas, I was working on a ship, with an emergency bank of 46 batteries connected in series. The voltage at the output was getting on for 600 volts DC.
I kept my fingers well away from this, as you can imagine!!
@@bigglestheflyboy The idea assumes a voltage drop on the wires connecting the batteries, so if you assume the following 2 battery example with thin wires:
20A charge to 2 batteries, 0.1 Ohm resistance per 'parallel' leg, so battery 1 gets 14V and sucks out say 15A leaving 5A going to battery 2, via 2 x 0.1 ohms = 0.2 ohms, V=1R, so that drops 0.2 x 5 = 1V, so battery 2 voltage is now 14V-1V = 13V (which is why it draws less charge current in our example).
So the first battery gets charged first and fastest, then floats at high voltage while the others catch up. This reduces battery life slightly and blurs the charge states which doesn't help the charger.
If instead you connect up alternate ends then each battery gets an even 0.1 Ohm connection so each loses 1V at 10A so each gets 13V.
The same works for multiple batteries because as go along the bank getting closer to one connection you get further from the other so all batteries see an equal resistance to the main harness.
It also works for drain as well, so it's kinder on batteries when drawing e.g. 100A, if you don't use alternate ends the inverter tends to hammer the first battery far more than the last even with quite thick wires, so any inverter draw is far better using the alternate end connection.
@@G-ra-ha-m 0.1 ohms would actually be a quite poor connection though. 6-gage wire (~16mm²) typically has a resistance of about 0.4 ohms per *1000* feet, 4-gage (~20mm²) is about 0.25 ohms per 1000ft. So for the maybe 2ft between those 3 batteries the resistance in the wire is less than 1 milli-ohm (i.e. zero for all practical purposes, we're not talking about kilo-amp currents here).
Where the resistance creeps in is usually the nuts & bolts, so it is crucial to use the correct torque and some terminal grease to prevent corrosion; then the resistance will be pretty much 0 as well.
Hence, for a handful of batteries it really doesn't matter. It only becomes a problem (potentially) if you have a huge battery bank. But then you want to use bus bars instead of jumper wires anyways.
@@CruisingTheCut With those short meaty cables the practical difference is bugger all.
Great job David...thanks for sharing
Congratulations on achieving the installation of your new batteries. It’s great to see that you’re ready to tackle these jobs. Well done and thanks for the vlog because I’m going to take a look at these batteries for my motorhome.
1200 comments on changing a couple of batteries........impressive.
Recommend you put terminal covers on the positive terminals..........will help prevent your wrench dropping fireworks
Nice channel
About that spark. Yup... the capacitors in the inverter!
An old electronics repairman's trick: make a discharger with a bit of wire, an alligator clip, a dry piece of wood, and a one to ten megohm 1/2 watt resistor. Hook the clip and the resistor to the ends of the wire and fasten the resistor to the end of the wood with the unused lead sticking out as a probe. Fasten the clip to a ground and use the probe to slowly and safely discharge things like power supplies before working on them.
I always look forward to your videos and I'm never disappointed, thank you
These diy vlogs are my favorite, they have a great flow to them, very story like.
The inverter has capacitors in the circuit, so when connecting there will always be sparking. This is mentioned in the inverter documentation.
Not always but it certainly should be...
Not if you use a 10 ohm's resistor touch it to the cable and the batteries then connect when reconnecting always positive first then negative current flow's negative to positive
some really great batteries!! and a g reat installation video. If all are connected, then it makes no matter which end gets the charge, nor which one is the drain connection. All are the same,,connection wiring keeps all from having a voltage difference or spike.....good work my friend!!
Cheers. It does make a difference though, at high current draws, see the article linked in the description.
good to see the old spring loaded poles getting some camera time...we miss you.
Brilliant, thank you. The battery connections article was a fantastic read, thank you!
nicely done! 😊 good idea with the insulation tape! 😊 your becoming quite an expert in diy! first you convert a van into a camper... now electrics... next thing we know you'll be building a boat!!! lol
Haha maybe one day
Good move insulating the terminals for maintenance given the lifts and moves, sure don't want to accidentally drop things across those, an uninsulated wrench across those terminals and its a bad day.. As I understand it, the idea with removing negative first relates to automotive service, take off the negative first and if you accidentally drop the positive lead and it hits the car body then there is no risk of a short. Take the positive first, and accidentally drop a tool so it hits the positive terminal and the car body, you get the big spark. No big grounded car body around your batteries so it probably doesn't matter OTOH consistent methods are preferable. Sounds like your charger circuit is not disconnected by your master switch, so your spark is due to difference of voltage between whats left in the charger device and your battery bank. Would be desirable to put a disconnect on that as well, or switch off its breaker if present.
No big grounded car body round the batteries???????
The entire hull is STEEL & a hell of a lot more than a car body.
Positive short to any part of the boat would result in a very BIG spark indeed. Removing negative first removes the risk of a spark should the positive contact the hull. Yes l have a City & Guilds in electronics.
Well done you for having a go and getting it all sorted yourself. Impressive! x
Good job David glad you were doing it, spanner idea great! Regards John
Your three batteries are connected in parallel. Therefore all the positive terminals are at the same potential from earth. Therefore unless you connect the batteries together with bell wire or something it doesn't matter where you take your positive feed, as far as the electricity is concerned it's one terminal.
Hi. Thanks. Yes, I know they're in parallel but it does matter, as explained in the article linked in the video description. Cheers
@@CruisingTheCut I read the article you referenced. Interesting, and I'm not in a position to dispute the figures provide in it, as it is a specialist area way outside of my experience. What I would point out is that any imbalance in output is dependent on the tiny resistance of the bus jumpers and very high currents. As you don't use these three batteries for starting the boat's engine, the overall current pull won't be anywhere near the extremes needed to develop the illustrated scenario, so it is unlikely in ordinary circumstances to cause damage.
The other point is that the calculations were done many years ago and battery technology has improved somewhat, so there is a possibility they may no longer be valid.
That said, it is all a moot point as the connections have been reconfigured.
Keep up the good work!
@@chrisknight6884 Your 'time' point is not valid but everything else is. A matter of low currents flowing through thick cables - so no issues of imbalance. Had currents been in the thousands of amps, then balancing leads would have been much more important.
Doesn't matter where you connect when the batteries are in parallel as they are. Seeing as each negative pole is connected to the next, that is the equivalent of a long wire and NO battery. As such, for the negative (and also true for the positive), it is each batteries condition which will determine which one charges and discharges.
The only way it could go from the positive terminal in battery "1" and finally out through the negative terminal in battery "3" is if the batteries were connected in series. But, connected in series gives you 36 volts, not what you want.
In fact, you could run everything off one battery if you wanted (as long as your amperage wasn't too high for it - in or out).
Please see the link in the video description, cheers
@@CruisingTheCut Thanks for mentioning the link. I was watching your video on TV and it doesn't show any links :(. Anyway, the article uses a 100 AMP draw as its example. Which is of course, pretty outlandish and isn't real life. Your draw is less than a 10th of that and I'd be interested in seeing them do the math on what your draw actually is.
Still, what they are saying is true, there is "some" resistance in those wire lengths and terminal connections. I just don't think it would make that much of a difference with say a 5 to 7 Amp draw and I suspect that internal battery resistance would be a larger factor.
Having said all that, there is certainly no harm and potential some benefit to hooking up the batteries to eliminate that resistance. I think option 3, using a common terminal and equal length wires to each battery would give you the "most equal" resistance to all batteries but may not be that practical plus you are introducing some resistance at the common terminal. Option 2 is simpler (as you've done) and has most of the benefits of the other options. Good work!
I'm confused as to how you can comment if you're watching on TV but not see the description (genuine query, how does that work?). Anyway, I can easily draw 100A when I run the microwave oven, albeit briefly. Plus the washing machine even on cold wash sucks about 40A. So there are occasions when a heavy draw is made even if most of the time it's just a few LED bulbs which the batteries barely even notice!!
@6sheds I have no means of measuring the discharge and recovery so can't really give you a good answer. All I can say is that they work like new batteries would be expected to - they charge and they run things and they discharge. Sorry, very unscientific but I truly have no way to tell.
@6sheds No idea how fast they charge, sorry. There's been bugger all sunshine for any solar in recent weeks and when the alternator's doing it I'm at the back driving so can't see what's happening, plus I only have a volt meter on them anyway and while the alternator's going this usually sits at 14.4. They do recover voltage swiftly after a load is removed though.
On my boat i learned to disconnect the red positive first. Reason is be cause if the negitive wire is removed first and touches the bulk head it will / can act as a negative post. Just from my experiences . Keep making these they are the best .
You’re not alone, ever since batteries started exploding(yes mostly lithium) I’ve become very nervous about batteries and being around them. All those people getting badly burned and hurt from just little batteries so I’d be crapping bricks being around ones as big as yours. Even though I didn’t understand hardly any of the information that you were discussing near the end I still found it very interesting. Great video! Oh isn’t sad that you cannot freely show everything because some asshole will hurt themselves but instead of taking responsibility for their actions they blame others.
Good show David. What are the PVC poles over your head for?. Are they for laundry? I might ad that I grew up in my business as a fix-it-man. You are doing a great job. We learn by our mistakes. it is a learning process. Safety is paramount in any job. Your research and thought process is commendable.
Yes, laundry!
I was taught many moons ago which ever the earth is, disconnect that first. The reason given was " when you disconnect the earth first, and you accidently touch the frame/chassis/hull, no spark as you are not completing a circuit (earth/ frame, same thing). Therefore when you disconnecting the "live" second, and accidently touch the frame/chassis/hull, there is actually no circuit to complete.
Cheers. As I said on the video, I've also heard equally good reasons why it should be +ve first. Hence my coyness at showing which way I actually did it ;-)
@@CruisingTheCut Is it possible that these equally good reasons are only for AC, where the Hot is sometimes referred to as positive? In AC wiring you do not want to disconnect the ground/neutral first. In 12VDC negative grounded systems, I can think of no benefit to disconnecting positive first.
I appreciate the geeky bits and the reasoning behind what you do. Good vlog episode
You are quite right to be concerned when working with batteries. There is no on / off switch on a battery so it is always live and the current it can supply is only limited by it's internal resistance. As an electronics engineer I used to train customers on battery charging and the most important part of this vlog was to tape the spanner and, as a viewer commented, tape or remove any metallic or carbon items. The other important mention was that of the temperature sensor: if the temperature is high the charge voltage needs to be lowered and vice versa.
I always found the best way to work on any voltage is to have three or four Gin and Tonics and stand in a puddle. The G&T makes it so you don't feel the pain when you touch a live wire and the puddle makes a good ground/earth to drain the electric from your body fast :) :) :)
Hahahaha good advice!
The inverter has condensators that should be shortened with a resistor before connecting the new batteries, but that is expert stuff and almost nobody knows it. Best of luck with the new batteries. Be safe.
condensators = capacitors and shortened = shorted (discharged) GOOD Points, take heed! :)
@@sre331l Thanks.. As a foreigner my language is far from perfect. I stand corrected.
Great detail and enthusiasm!
Excellent job my friend and it didn't take you months to share. Thanks for sharing.
35 years as Electrical Power Generating Facility/Industrial Electrician here. ALWAYS disconnect NEGATIVE side of batteries first, then last when reconnecting. This is not an opinion, it's a fact.
Yes, but only if it's negative earth.
@@kevgermany just like in cars the negative is often connected to the hull. Hence the same rules apply. Disconnecting negative first/reconnecting it last lowers the risk of accidentally creating a short (to the hull or other conductive parts around the battery bay) with your tools when unscrewing the positive terminal.
You where right, You haven't a clue, but you did make it sound like it made sense. Lol !
Very well done for a novice, loved your disclaimer.
Now looking forward to a 'bright' winter season
I quite enjoy the geeking out. The wiring information reminded me of how an old diesel farm tractor we had was wired. We had several but only one, with a 5.0L 6-cylinder, used more than one battery. On each side were parallel cables running to the respective terminal points.
As for disconnection order, I was always taught whichever was the ground first (usually negative but on the farm we had some 6v positive ground machines,) but it was simply for a practical reason of many conductive surfaces nearby that were all connected to ground combined with the battery often being in even less accessible places (tractor designers then had learned to build some mechanically nice machines but didn't think too much about human access for maintenance) and insulating the wrench would have addressed it as well.
"On the side they printed the dimensions of the *box* ... " --- I have never seen a marketing choice like that.
"Me just hunched over a laptop swearing." Haha! that's been pretty much my professional career for the past few decades. Computer things work better if you use language that only dogs can hear.
So fun !! Electricity moves like water (path of least resistance and can spike like a wave when things are turned off and on) ...your videos are a blast !! : ) Thank You !!
Fantastic, always nice to get home from work and get that notification, thanks for sharing
With the batteries in parallel, it really doesn't matter where the wires are connected. If anything, tapping of from the *middle* would be optimal, as you'd get the least possible contact resistance to every single battery (if you connect to the end of the chain, all the contact resistances between the jump leads add up) - but if everything is tightened properly that's negligible.
(Edit: actually connecting to opposite ends does make sense, as then the resistance from the connection through the battery to the opposite connection will be about equal for each path through each of the three batteries. But as I said before, for only 3 batteries this is absolutely negligible, provided the terminal screws are tightened properly - it only becomes a problem for large battery banks.)
If you are really worried about it you could use solid bus bars to connect the positive and negative terminals, instead of short jump leads. But for a few milli-ohms less resistance it usually isn't worth the hassle - unless you run really, really high currents it doesn't make any difference.
Regarding the order of connecting/disconnecting positive and negative: that's usually only an issue if you connect *additional* batteries (e.g. when jump-starting a car). Usually the vehicle body is connected to the negative terminal, so if you connect an additional battery negative-first you have to be very careful to not accidentally touch anything with the positive jump lead, as it would produce a short circuit (which can be very dangerous with large batteries - think "welding machine"). As the battery is usually surrounded by bodywork (=negative terminal) this can happen very easily; therefore it is safer to connect the positive lead first.
But since you are just (dis)connecting a single battery bank this isn't really an issue (provided you use isolated tools, as you should always do when working on batteries!). Just make sure to disconnect the main wires first (before disconnecting the jumpers between the batteries) and re-connect them last (after setting up the battery bank), so that you are actually dealing with a "single" battery from the vehicle's perspective.
It really is the residual charge in the inverter capacitors :)
it shouldnt be, if he turned the master switch off, but you do get a spark when connecting a battery bank due to the different charge leavels in each battery
Ah but for reasons I won't bore you with, the inverter/charger is one of the very few things connected directly to the batteries rather than through the isolation switch.
@@CruisingTheCut interesting..
Not too geeky for me .. I found that really interesting....because you are not an electrician you explain it all in language I can understand. I learned loads......I am not sure I will ever need the information I have learned but I must be wiser for it! Thanks!
This is how we all learn how to manage our boats, by research, making a decision then doing it. Fun with the right attitude! Thanks for sharing your personal path.
David, "sparking" is okay, and rather entertaining. It's the "blowing up" that irritates the neighbors! That "residual spark" is caused by the flux capacitor in the circuit! Your batteries are wired in parallel, so which terminal the red is connected to really doesn't matter, since they're all connected. "No smoke, no worry".
While you've done nothing harmful or even 'wrong', battery banks connected in parallel don't really care where the 'input - output' cables are connected. Putting the pos and neg on the same battery will result in exactly the same performance as placing one on the first battery and the other on the last... (Retired Commercial Electrician and boat wirer). Still doesn't make the damn things any lighter...
The reasoning I believe is that at higher current draws there is a small but non-zero voltage drop in the jumper links and connections. The first/last configuration distributes the current draw evenly between the batteries, in addition to resulting in a slightly smaller voltage drop overall. Probably not a big deal if your connections are all good and proper, but perhaps possibly somewhat significant in the event that they're not?
They do care when the amperage is high. Imagine a bank of ten batteries in series. Connected at the first battery at one end. By the time the tenth battery sees the charge it will have also seen nine interconnecting links each with a voltage drop across them.
@@Hagledesperado if there is a relevant voltage drop then the bolts are not tightened correctly. The cable resistance is negligible on those short links; even if it's only 6-gage wire (it should be more like 4-gage) the resistance is only about 0.4 ohms per 1000ft.
So just tighten the screws to the correct torque and use some terminal grease to prevent corrosion.
Contact resistance only becomes an issue on large battery banks. If you want to be on the safe side use bus bars instead of single wires - but with only 3 batteries this also just removes the contact resistance in the middle.
Thanks, this was very interesting.
Happy Cruising
Well done, David. I'm sure they'll be fine.
Just a remark to anyone doing their own battery installation. Connecting "first" or "last" battery in a group of batteries connected in parallell really doesn't matter as long as the intermediate cables are thick enough to not give any voltage drop.
It's almost certainly negligible but I've always been taught to source from across the bank rather than within it.
Equalisation voltage is that all the batteries should be in the same state the more you have the more important it is. Each cell in a battery with 6 cells is fine and will be the same because they are in the same physical case. if you had an electric car there would be hundreds of individual cells and all need to be the same voltage that's why its good to do a full discharge and charge occasionally to equalize everything. in your 3 battery cases not a big deal at all. In lithium cels applications there is usually a device, a BMS which takes care of the equalization it monitors each cell and makes sure it's charged the same as its neighbor and the level is the same. You get the best from your batteries and they get the best charge and get looked after. Battery need looking after when they are they give their best for a long time. If not they die quickly.
A good job well carried out on your three batteries ,Nice insulation
Excellent vlog. Informative and easily understood. I put new batteries in my caravan and the instructions were not vert clea to a novice. In the end it all worked out. Keith & Helen Australia