#9 Lithium Batteries on a Narrowboat
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- This video is about why we chose Lithium Batteries for our narrowboat, Briny Marlin. It's mainly a fascinating (and serendipitous) interview with Stuart from the Battery Store in Market Harborough.
DBS Energy Ltd. Unit 5B, Welland Business Park, Market Harborough LE16 7PS Tel: 01858 433330 www.dbs.energy/
ReLion Batteries - www.relionbattery.co.uk/index.php
Gone with the Wynns - www.gonewiththewynns.com/sailb...
CruisingTheCut - / @cruisingthecut
Gongoozler TV - / @shevanigans
The Narrow Boat to the Deep North -www.thenarrowboattothedeepnort...
I just got a replacement car battery from the battery store . the best customer service I have ever had. Lewis thank you
Nice people, thanks for watching. Best Martin
That was one hell of an education for a 30 minute video! Thanks!
Thanks so much. Wait till we talk about composting toilets! :D
Many thanks for the information - I am sure that Stuart will be getting plenty of visitors on his stand as we are looking at buying our boat to live on we were not even aware of the issues relating to lithium batteries v lead acid etc. so your video has just added another question into the pot!!! Thanks again for taking the time.
Hi Henry & Min, there was a little bit that we had to cut out of the vid where Stuart spoke about the 'build' checklist, he said that Lithium batteries should be added to that list like bow thruster and other add-ons or up-grades so that people can at least have the choice. He also said that Lithium battery banks are starting to be used in homes charging at night at a low cost and power the home (or used totally off-grid). Storing electricity has always been difficult but maybe these kinds of batteries will make that possible in a much wide sense.
Interesting video. You mention Gone With The Wynns, you might want to have a look at Technomadia, they had a bank of lithium ion batteries on their vintage bus that they turned into a motorhome/RV. (They are now moving onto a boat)
Ooooh, yes, we'll definitely go and have a look at them. Thanks for the suggestion. :). - J.
Really really enjoyable video:) learnt so much from this:)
Am currently in the same stages of build so really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Keep up with the great videos. Thanks
Thanks for leaving a comment and letting us know that it's helped, it means a lot. Best, Martin
Amazing interview. Thanks for making it. Very informative.
Thanks, glad you found it helpful. Best, Martin
Thanks, glad you found it helpful. Best, Martin
Awesome information.thank you 👍
Hi Anthony, thank you for watching! Best, Martin
Very informative. enjoyed very much.
Hi Roberta, thanks for watching and for commenting, glad you found it interesting :) best, Martin
What a wonderfull insight into lithium batteries, i use the (18650) single cells in models as they will give all they have at the flick of a switch and can be recharged much quicker than standard cells. But now the big packs are out there to replace the old pb's lithium is the future.
Thank you for your great video. First one I have seen on Lithium that makes sense. The explanation was a bit lacking and some areas inaccurate. I have been using solar since 1984 and with a good SLA battery you can make them last roughly 7yrs. However that aside he did a great, no to technical, explanation of Lithium. So not only was he "selling" but at the same time putting many folks fears at rest. As he says this is the future of the portable battery. I have subbed on the strength of this video and us motorhomers/caravanners and boaters share many of the same problems. I am a retired Electronics Engineer and Radio Ham so could spend hours spouting on about portable power. Thank you again and I will certainly be pointing folk to this video.
Hi Desmond, we did have more footage but there's a limit to how long people will keep on watching (I also didn't bring a tripod because i thought it was only going to be a short 5-10mins of talking, the very basics, by the end my arms where so stiff). We wanted it to be an introduction for people like us who doen't know anything or very much about Lithium and feedback has been good. There is certainly a lot of mixed information out there.
Sounds to me that you should be joining in the vlogging or even podcasting revolution - it amazes me what people will share with us; knowledge, workarounds, tips, hacks etc. with your experience, lets see something on solar for mobile homes and the best set up or maintainance?
Thanks for commentin and good to hear from you. Best Martin
Good information, thank you.
Thank you. We hope it's useful. :) - J.
Really good informative and yes interesting vlog, didn't think learning about batteries could be so interesting, all of this is now in my list of must have's for when we are ready to start looking for our own boat. Hope you give an update on how you get on with them. X
Lynne Evans thank you. Glad it was helpful and yes we'll definitely being doing an update when we're ready. 😊
First of all it was great to see you'd posted another video today. I didn't expect to see you so soon! Second, this was a really interesting video and I didn't expect that. When I saw it was 29 minutes I thought I won't make it to the end but we have a build slot booked with Aintree at the end of the year and haven't really thought about batteries. We're considering a bow thruster, 2 pack epoxy and even a hunt for a red hot sofa but batteries have not entered our radar. This was so informative and to be honest it flew over so well done. I will certainly have a chat with him when I visit Crick later this month. When that narrowboat came into view at the start of the video I thought wouldn't it be funny if it was Cruising the Cut on his spring trip! Many thanks for this and I look forward to the next installment.
Sylvia Page I know! We're like a number 7 bus. It would have been hilarious if it was Cruising the Cut! 😆 but lovely Morwenna and Molly were just lovely. 😊
What size boat are having? Because it was a long vid we wanted to keep the intro short but when the boat came by we couldn't really edited out, it was very funny, we just picked a watery quiet spot. Thanks for watching - Martin
We think we want a 57 foot reverse layout semi-trad but we're going to Crick at the end of the month so goodness knows what we'll want after we've been there!
YEEEEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! Good choice!!! Cheers I actually want to create a narrow boat for the US that runs exclusively on electric....I also have the idea of creating it out of 70/30 Copper/Nickel but on the batteries... And the Wynns helped me decide this....
That sounds like a brilliant idea. There are some excellent hybrids over here, but I'm not sure about a total electric boat. We love the Wynns - so helpful and fun to watch. :)
interesting, so how many lithium batteries would I need to replace a bank of 4x115ah leisure batteries?
You might want to google fighting a lithium fire. And while not wanting to belittle the efficiency of lithium batteries the 20 year life might be a bit optimistic when you consider how much life your phone or laptop battery would still have after 20 years. I have a 4 year old phone and it still works but I estimate the battery has less than 30% of the capacity it had when new. I'm considering exactly this question for my own electric narrowboat which is being built in June. Speed of charging and depth of discharge a very valid points. Hidden in the figures he quotes is even worse news for lead acid because as he says most people will never charge to more than 80% because it takes forever so you are getting at best 50% of 80% of 100AH or 40AH out of a lead acid battery. Context: I have been an Electrician and electronics engineer for 40 years. Lived previously on a boat for 15 years. Loving the videos. All the best with the project :)
Hi Gilly, thanks so much for your comments, really useful. We know the batteries aren't going to last at 100% for 20years (but then, neither will we! 😆). Good luck with your boatbuild, we'd love to hear how it goes. :).
Just wondering if your vendor had Lead Crystal Batteries for sale and did you consider them? They easily out-perform normal lead acid and deep cycle gel batteries and have a far superior charge cycle life span. Not as much as Lithium ion but they are a fraction of the price, being some 25% more expensive than your average deep cycle gel. Plus they operate and charge in -40 degrees to +60 degrees celcius. They are commonly used by Military.
Hi KM Mining, we'd already decided on Lithium before contacting The Battery Store, luckily, they were close to where we lived and so could just pop over and collect them. Having emailed Stuart a few times I asked him if we could have a quick chat about them, he was obviously more knowledgable than we knew having a whole history/family in batteries.
I don't know Lead Crystal but they do sound interesting, maybe The Battery Store would know about them as they do stock batteries for all kinds of vehicles. They do know their stuff and no hard sell either. Best, Martin
Very educational. One question I would have is would it be necessary to modify my charging system and could i keep my led acid battery as a starting battery or would that also to be lithium?
Our starter battery is an AGM which is one up from Lead Acid and so yes, your starter is fine, and we were advised to use Lead Acid for this purpose. Thanks for watching, best, Martin
Interesting; and thanks for the mention and link, too. I'll be interested to hear how you get on with the batteries once you're up and running. Cheers :-)
CruisingTheCut you're welcome. We're very excited about them, and have already connected one to our lights to test it. It's the little things... 😊 cheers.
Is there any thought, of using solar panels, on the narrowboat? Having the panels connected through a solar charge controller, would help with topping off the batteries, while away from any hook-ups on shore. Also the panels would keep the batteries from full discharge, during the day, of heavy use.
That is the most informative video on batteries we have ever watched and we have watched alot. Made our minds up which way to go thanks very much. Just found your channel watching from the start love it. Cheers
Thank you, you're very kind. Glad you found the video interesting and informative, Stewart is, in my opinion, one of the good guys and knows his stuff, we were very lucky to have the chance to speak to him and share it. Good luck with your battery choices! Best, Martin
Two comments...
1. Deep discharging any battery, also Lithium batteries, even just once, means that you can shortly throw them away. Lithium batteries should only be discharged to max. 30%, better would be 40%.
2. Lithium batteries CAN burst into flames if the charging is not properly regulated. This kind of fire is very difficult to extinguish as the temperatures reach 600°C. Google 'lithium battery "thermal runaway"' and have a look at the videos!
Nevertheless, Lithium batteries are the correct solution as long as you don't deep discharge them and you use a quality charging system.
THis isn't correct. LifePo4 or LFP (there are many types of Lithium) can be taken safely to pretty much 0 (SOC is a bit mute in LFP terms, you really measure each cells voltage not the battery), I go between about 20%-85% but that's purely to get the most cycles. They are the opposite to LA in that they prefer a lower SOC rather than being 'full'. The fire scenario does not apply to LFP. Keep Googling! You are referring to Lithium IoN. There is a YT video of someone throwing an LFP cell into a burning oil barrel with no ill effects! Finally, the charging system doesn't matter, multi stage charging is a solution for LA. The basic rules for a LFP BMS are Temperature, no over V and no under V - that's it! I built my current LFP bank as DIY, and I'm shortly doing it again for a new boat. As a liveaboard they were 'life changing'. Cheers
A very good video,
I have a question which seem to be on the edge but never quite got asked or answered.
Can you just take out your old lead-acid btteries and replace them with Lithium batteries? or is there some other changes that need to be made?
Andrew Walton hi, thanks so much. Yes, you can just swap them over but you may need thicker cable (depending on what you have already). It also might depend on what amp hourage you go for and what battery you choose - check with the supplier to be certain. (We're still learning about them as well). ReLion are designed to swap over. Hope this helps. :)
Yes, that is very helpful. I will definitely be talking to your battery guy at Crick.
Andrew Walton go for it - he's a lovely bloke. 😊
With Relion they use the same basic battery size so they should just swap over. You may need thicker cable though depending onwhat you have already (for better conductively) but Stuart will know the ins and outs. Thanks for watching and for the comment. - Martin
The Tesla electric car uses a battery management system which after 100,000 miles looses approximately 3 percent of it capacity using a 85 kilowatt battery. Tesla states their battery will last at least 25 years.
Now do you have solar power? If you don't please get a system installed with a mph controller. By getting a good solar system preferably 2x480 watt panels.
Speak with Journey with Jono's channel. He recently changed over to lithium ion batteries and with his solar system he loves it as it maintains the battery state rather easily.
Thank you for posting and making this video.
There is an electric component called an battery isolator which feeds the power from one alternator to which ever battery needs the power the most without connecting the two batteries. The isolator has three terminals, the center post is where the output from the alternator connects then the other two are the primary ( starter battery ) and the house battery post to charge the house batteries aka your lithium ion batteries.
Actually lithium ion batteries slow down the charge rate as the near a full charge which is perfect for solar power.
Solar power will pay for itself by allowing you to not use diesel fuel to run your engine to charge your battery's.
Cheers
Hi James, thanks for the indepth comment, it is interesting and helpful. I'm not caught up on Jono's channel but having spoken to him a few times I know he had problems with led acid and changed to lithium having seen this video and his own research. He also warned us about low tempature charging with lithium which we did know about but we have decided to move the batteries slightly in light of that.
We will have solar eventually and I'll look into the mph controller when we're a bit closer to getting the system, why is the controller a good thing? Best, Martin
Outstanding video. Great interview. Concise & to the point info.
Thanks, glad you liked it. Thanks f watching and commenting. Best, Martin
Thank you, that's very kind. We thought Stuart was really interesting and we wanted to share him with the boaty community. :)
Hello Martin, can you give any advice on replacing LA with Lithium batteries? Is it a case or one out one in?
Hi Dale, unfortunately not and depends on your set-up, inverter size and power needs.
Our Lithium batteries needed other 'blue' boxes to make them work, charge and maintain the right way. We have a victron multiplus 12/3000 so needed 5x 80ah batteries (originally bought 3 but it didn't cover VMP 12/3000. 110ah back then were much more expensive and we had room for 3).
Victron batteries have a certain amount of additional tech inside and maybe why they're much more expensive and bigger, but helps in monitoring/charging etc. So it is about cost in general, cost of Lithium, wiring, and the blue boxes: Victron Battery Management System BMS 12/200, Victron -VE.Bus BMS to BMS 12-200 alternator control cable, Victron BatteryProtect 12/24V-100A as well as double poss/neg cables on the inverter, and the batteries star wired not in series or parallel. The are lots of fuses along the way.
It's very expensive and complicated unless you know what you're doing (I didn't and now know the principle but not how to). Have a look at the "12 Volts Boating Group" on Facebook, there are 2 groups the other 'Volt' without the 's'. Graham who runs it helped us and there are things in the 'file' section you can read about Lithium and wiring. His preference is the Victron Battery because it's a bit simpler but we bough ours in 2017 and things change, Victron Battery were out of our price range and we thought it was a simple to just use Lithium without all the other gubbins and not LA.
Though it took some time to get things right, lots of time and expense, I'm happy with it but it is a question of weighing up the pros and cons for your situation, your set-up now, space, money... what was right for me might not be for you but it is still worth considering. Hope that helps. Best, Martin
@@TheNarrowBoatToTheDeepNorth Thank you Martin, Graham has been in touch already through FB and has given me lots of advice, I think that costs and life expectancy’s the key figure, we have booked a New Build slot with Braidbar so the investment in our current Narrowboat would not be returned. But it has given me ideas for the next one! Thank you fir getting back to me. Regards Dale
Very informative, Thank you, all the advantages are awsome. Plus you don't add the excess weight of lead acid batterys to your boat, car, motorcycle saving energy moving them. Those Li-on battery pack are way safer, with there protective management circuitry.
Thanks so much. Do you use them yourself?
Thank you for your answer. No not i don't use them in those package, but in smaller arrangement for an e-Bike.
@@eFSpiderGuy It's actually LifePo4 on boats not Lithium Ion. Much safer but not as efficient.
I don't get how they can justify the price. It's not new technology, it's been around for a long time. Laptop cells are Lithium ion and are exactly the same as these, a pack made up of 3.7v 18650 batteries. These are just bigger packs of 18650 cells. Like laptop batteries, one of the cells in the pack goes down, the battery starts to decrease capacity in a big way.
Hi Chris, thanks for yuor comment, they are expensive and in some ways old tech., but with a good understanding of issue and good treatment of the batteries over time, I'm hoping they'll last and do a good job but we'll be doing an up-date once we've had a chance to put them through a few miles cos at the moment the boats still on chocks. Also see my comment about 4 down from here. Thanks again, best Martin
Thanks for the informative video, in regards to some comments received unless it is relevant or you can be constructive take your negativity elsewhere and fester with other like minded people.
28:00 that's a new one, a Lead Acid Lithium battery? Do I detect a misspeak?
Mostly likely as this was an on the hoof interview that I imagined would only be a few minutes long but it was very interesting and Stuart was very knowledgeable, there were no prepared questions as such, just a few things we wanted to know. Thanks for watching and for commenting! Best, Martin
subbed
Hi Cruising the Waterways, thanks for watching, I'm not sure I understand your comment? Best, Martin
Hi guys, havn't seen a video for a while. Hope everything is ok.Best wishes Ed
Hi Ed, we've been moving house and relocating to Nottinghamshire and my office is now based in Arnold Nottingham. It's taken us longer than we thought as we had/have too much stuff and although we've give loadds away to charity, sold a few things and generally tried hard to minimise out life in boxes it's not possible all in one go. We ahve now settled a little and we'll be back on the boat this weekend for the first time a month (seems such a long time away) and we'll be up-loading a vid soon. As we've been without homeand office we're a little out of the loop so we're looking forward to catching up with your vloggs as they've certainly helped us. Best Martin
Are all Lithium Batteries the same no matter what you pay for them?
Stacieod Stacieod that's a good question, thank you for asking it. From our research and the discussion with Stuart we've found there are a few lithium batteries on the market designed for leisure and electric vehicle use. Some of them are cheaper than others, have fewer cells and need extra charging units - but all lithium batteries are much more expensive than lead acid. We went for ReLion because the reviews were all excellent and people recommended them. We hope this helps. :)
Thank
More could have been made of the fact that with lead/acid etc,one needs a charging regime to keep them in good condition,just getting it wrong ONCE can massively shorten their life.
Hi Stephen, thanks for the comment. Really good idea. I think Stuart is hoping to do some videos so it might be a nice suggestion for him. :) Thanks - J. :)
Four minutes in. When are we going to get started on the information?
Hi I don't want to be a damp squib upon your enthusiasm but my advice to you would do more research on temperature control using lithium cells, because most boats have their batteries in the engine compartment, this area gets extremely hot and heat is the biggest killer of lithium cells. There are many technical discussions on utube to get your research started not just relying upon a salesmans pitch. However I do agree a long term investment by buying lithium is by far your best choice, just a shame they are pricey.
Peter Huddleston hi, peter thanks for your comments. We've been researching the batteries since November so we had a good idea of some of the difficulties already before we went to speak to Stuart but it's always good to hear others' thoughts. We're hoping where we've put them will be fine, but we'll let you all know how it goes. :)
Amp hours per £ wet lead acid flooded still the most economical by quite some way.. especially if supported by a half decent solar array( some of the information here is incorrect and biased)...just my opinion.. good luck in the future..
Hi Chevy, if you have batteries already then it's not an issue but when we looked for what was best for us we found Lithium would serve us well. Stewart sells all kinds of batteries and has been in the biz for a long time, I know he prefers electic boats so I'm not suprised he prefers Lithium as well as some of the new tech batteries like GEL tubular, why do you think some of the info was incorrect? (I'm just interested) Thanks for watching and for commenting. Best, Martin
Why not answer the question on price ?
Hi Abraham dance, this video is already 2 years old and therefore prices would already be out of date. Lithium is much more common now than even 2 years ago with more boaters opting for lithium, though we just wanted to show what we choose and why, we're not selling anything. Thanks for watching, best, Martin
@@TheNarrowBoatToTheDeepNorth Bollocks
What that guy was saying was flawed in many ways, I've got a bank of 2volt lead acid batteries which are entering their 15th year and still as good as new. Its all about how much you discharge them, with the right solar set up and engine charging that can provide nearly you daily usage so that you are not discharging the batteries more then about 25%, then with correct maintenance they can and will last as long as lithium batteries.
Anyone going to Crick this weekend (27-29th), pop over to the Battery Store on stand Q40 found on the quayside and get 20% on all marine batteries - I'm sure you won't have to carry them - tell them you've seen the video :) www.crickboatshow.com - tickets on the day.
Lithium, at least the Lifepo4 type are good - Here are 2 disadvantages:
1/ The impact on the Alternator - it will without additional current limiting be working flat out as the battery sucks all it can deliver and when the BMS cuts out the surge will blow the diodes - this explains: ruclips.net/video/jgoIocPgOug/видео.html
2/ Lithium cannot be charged sub-zero temperatures - they may need relocating or insulating or possibly a heat mat.
There are ways around both issues however these issues mean it is not simply a plug and play upgrade - for max life cycle Lifepo4 between 20% - 80% - one reason lithium laptop and phone batteries die prematurely is they use 100% duty cycles
Hi Trev S, thank you for the link, it's good to see Victron thinking about these things. We've become ware of the issues mostly since we first did this video which is now some time ago. We'll be fitting our batteries in December within the engine bay (trad stern) so they're not to cold and there'll be a various gadgets to limit the alternators and batteries. Luckily someone with the expertise will be helping us with the install. The Balmar alternator and regulator are a bit pricy and together with the price of the batteries and all the gubbins is not, as you say, a simply plug and play upgrade, though that was not clear to us at the time. Best, Martin
@@TheNarrowBoatToTheDeepNorth Martin there are some cheap solutions eg You can put a large Capacitor or even an old lead-acid battery in parallel but before the lithium BMS on your Lithiums to catch the surge as the BMS cuts. You could consider using a high capacity water-cooled alternator from one of the bigger modern cars that can be had for under £100 from eBay - they can better cope with sustained high current charging - do check the wires can cope with the higher output - I have a motor home, not a canal boat through the issues are much the same - do look at Will Prowse channel he does some great posts on this evolving subject.
Thanks for the advice. Our 12v Electrician had a few ideas including a second battery for the over charge but I think he's going down the restrict/limit the charge and monitor them. We may end up needing a new alternator as one of the looks a bit iffy. I'll have a look at Will's vloggs, thanks for that. Best, Martin
@@TheNarrowBoatToTheDeepNorth
Hi Martin, I've also just bought some Relion lithium batteries for my sailaway narrowboat.
They've not yet installed as I have become aware of the problems regarding the alternator as highlighted in this thread.
Have you now fitted your batteries ? If so I'd welcome your feedback on how you overcame the issues, and also whether you're happy with your choice of Relion ?
Thanks
Martin too ...
@@martinalma_azul4262 Where are you based? Best, Martin
One big downside of Lithium batteries is they dont like being charged below 5c and cant be charged at all if it is frezing !
Hi Trev S, that does seem to be the case though I'm not sure I'd be venturing out on the cannal on such days but it is a consideration if anyone is buying a new set of batteries, espcially if they have a semi or crusher stern as the batteries are outside, practically. Thanks for watching and for commenting. Best, Martin
Badly explained C rating at 10:05. A lithium battery's C rating tells you how much maximum amp discharge is safe with the battery. The C figure is multiplied with the battery's amp hour capacity to tell you the safe amp draw limit. eg. a 100Ah battery rated at C1 means you can only safely discharge it at 100amps max. The same battery with a C10 rating means you can safely discharge it at 1000amps. If you draw more current than a lithium battery's rated C capacity you will damage the battery and in the worst case it may set on fire. You need to know what your max inverter amperage load could be (microwave or washing machine on) to then buy the correctly sized battery using the C ratings.
Hi MikeB, this is in terms of lithium batteries and tech., quite an old video (2017) and we've leaned a lot since then but thanks for watching and for your comments. Best, Martin.
Was just trying to help any other late watchers clear some of the confusion around the whole battery specs thing. This area is complicated for new people but didn't ought to be. Also meant to say that I appreciate you both sharing what you are doing and the effort that creating the videos must take. Your content is really great. Keep up the good work. Regards, Mike.
Thank you for putting this up. I have to confess I found Stuart's knowledge to be typical of the sales person community. For all the years Stuart has been in the industry and based on this video I would assess his technical knowledge to be superficial at best or maybe he was dumbing it all down for our benefit. Gone with the Wynn's presentation was 100% superior.
Norman Boyes thank you for your comment. We're sorry you didn't like the video, but thank you for watching.
The Narrow Boat To The Deep North I did like the video and said my thanks - just not that impressed with Stuart. Once again thanks for putting the video up.👍
My idea of Hell. A half-hour advert. I wanted to know the price, but, I admit I fell asleep before the end.
1954 FA Cup It appears you can use the internet - perhaps search for the price?
I was searching for the price, when I saw "Lithium batteries on a narrowboat".
Hi 1954 FA Cup, we did say it was a long video and to get comfy but at least you managed to get a nap :) best, Martin
I was interested until the “vice chairman of the electric boat association” comment at 8.30. This is nothing but a ploy to convince “green” boaters to spend a lot of money on eco credentials. Only if weight is an issue can the cost be justified, ask why did Boeing use them on the 787 aircraft and the car manufactures know about weight and charge time ratios. So to keep the fridge and WiFi running on a 15ish tonne diesel powered narrow boat I don’t think the weight/recharge time criteria are met.
Suppose it will make a change from the usual narrow boater talk about what do you shit in to, to my new batteries are wonderful.
Thank you for commenting. It is a subject that does gets lots of people going but as diesel is the new demon and on it's way out, electric powered boats will soon be the norm for a sailaway especially for something that goes 4mph. How that affects the rest of us I don't know. Though we want to be off-grid as much as possible using our engine, solar and batteries to achieve this. Best, Martin
The Narrow Boat To The Deep North Most narrow boaters are working to fixed budgets and until battery/accumulator technology leaps forward at affordable prices I still don’t see the Diesel engine been retired any day soon.
If someone, somewhere can provide a workable solution to energy storage then we might see vast improvements but somehow don’t think it will be in our life times.
Good luck in your quest for energy utopia 👍
Well it's clear to see which chemistry the salesman is pushing this Month with his biased Positive views of Li-Fe v over his Negative opinions of most other Battery Chemistries! :-) I hope you'll forgive the pun! Yes, Li-Fe batteries are the future, but they need just as much particular and specific special care as any other battery chemistry/technology, if you abuse any battery you will damage it and to suggest that you can simply 'Plug 'n' Play' differing technology batteries into an existing environment is misleading to say the least. He successfully side-stepped the financial discussion because (I believe) he knows Li-iON are still an expensive option with eye watering ROI estimates when compared with more established tech batteries. The only genuine Sealed for Life battery is a Gel battery which when it fails, is unrecoverable and I wouldn't touch one of those with your bargepole let alone mine :-), so whether you let your heart or your wallet decide is personal choice, they all work at the end of the day, personally, my AGM batteries are still going strong in their 10th Year of ownership indicating a resting voltage of > 12.5V after 4/5 days of standing idle without a charge, I have however converted them to a maintained version from the outset of ownership and regularly top them up, they are after all STILL a lead acid battery.
Alot of this information is incorrect. And quite frankly a little bad for any narrowboater to watch.
Hi, this video is informative and very useful, it's up to the individual if they want to go down the Lithium route, I don't understand why you think it is incorrect or bad, I know at least 2 other narrowboaters that have bought Lithium after whatching this vid and are very happy with there set-up. Best, Martin
jigglestumps if you're going to comment like that at least specify what you have a problem with so others can do their own research on the points you dispute. Otherwise you risk just sounding like a nutter...
This comment is irrelevant without some form of qualification. Why is it incorrect?
no, i am sorry but way way too simplistic. batteryuniversity.com quotes cycles v dod of lithium. as being 300-600 cycles at 100% depth of discharge. versus 10,000-15,000 at 10%. so fully discharging them has no effect. errrrrrrr. NO. i am totally cool with. a 12v 100ah li-ion battery being smaller than a lead based. BUT. prices i have seen are to the tune £800 per 100ah li-ion battery. now i am totally cool with the description. of 100% dod of a lead based battery is going to kill it very quickly. BUT. if we take a 60% dod figure as a working deal. batteryuniversity quotes cycles as being 600-1500 for li-ion. i equate that to being 3 to 5 years of use. pop yourself to ebay for a second and type in agm 100ah deep cycle...... i am seeing hits for £80 shipped......... i am also finding 60% dod cycles quoted on battery manufacturers sites to the tune of 800 cycles.
i am sure i am simplifying this a lot. but agm being 1/10th the cost and half the lifespan of li-ion.... oh and your li-ion charge controller isnt a cheap toy either.
They are expensive you're right, and I don't have a good answer to help either. They have been around for ages in smaller devices but if you look at the cost of a lithium battery for a power tool such as a 4ah (four amp hours which I bought) is around £80 for something reputable you soon see that the price would go up accordingly: 8ha = £160, 16ah = £320 and so on, simplified yes but you get the point. I think with battery technology the enphasis has been on reducing the size/cost for the mass market of smart phones rather than going the other way and might also be why the price for the bigger versions are still so high. If they were more affordable we might have them in houses to save electricity at cheeper times and use it when we want. Thanks for commenting and for watching, best Martin
you can't run Lithium batteries 100 % empty
They won't last that long if you do that
I'm intrigued by your comment; on mobil devices and computors, and power tools, it's better to run the batteries down to nothing as you then use the whole battery rather than just part of it and therefore not wearing it in one place, why would bigger and more advanced lithium batteries be any different? - Martin
@@TheNarrowBoatToTheDeepNorth He is sort of correct. Most LFT cells go terminal at 2.0V which you really dont want. Common wisdom seem to be something like 20-85% SOC for the most life. I run mine about 20-80% as they seem to like a lower V over a higher one. Ideally your BMS will allow you to set a per cell voltage. Mine run up to 3.45 max and I can't recall the lower figure but my BMS (I did DIY) allows very precise control and I have different BMS setting for Solar/Alternator and Mains Charger. Just about to do it again and can't decide this time whether to have the same setting (cheaper) or individual ones... either way LFP is amazing. Two years living aboard worrying about batteries, change to LFP and really I never think about them now :)
The cost of Lithium batteries keeps them away from the more minimalist narrowboaters.
Narrowboating is not a platform for the rich and famous it's for the bloke and girl in the street.
And don't even mention electric boats, they are a toy. Believe me, we had an electric ferry on our harbour and it failed very badly. Never to be seen again.