nintendo released the wii shop channel theme (along with the mii plaza theme) on the Touch! Generations soundtrack CD all the way back in 2008. Those songs had the same amount of reverb there as it does in the new app. i feel like maybe this extra reverby sound could be intentional.
I think they must have sourced as much music as they could from official soundtrack releases like that. That's definitely where they got the Star Allies and Breath of the Wild tracks.
@@Evilgrapez 100%, tomodachi collection's soundtrack on nintendo music is literally just ripped from the soundtrack release they did in 2011, sadly i think that release seems to be missing some tracks so sourcing from their already released soundtrack releases might not always be the best move
@@Evilgrapez I don't think it's quite that, because there are many songs here that never got an official release in any way and yet have this different sound to them. (in regards to the Wii music)
Well this is a solid app to officially listen to Nintendo based songs, I honestly wished the app would go the extra mile by crediting the artist and composers that made the song, which is what those RUclips ripped channels had done prior.
@@mia_2043Sure is, I don't make much music at all (mostly for fun and myself) and I can hardly call myself a composer, but it's a job deserving of a lot more respect than people usually give, and they, like any artist, deserve credit for it.
@@piyushmenon4987 Even outside of giving proper credit it’s just a useful feature that’s completely missing, if I want to listen to the Pokémon Music made by Toby Fox, I can’t just go to one of the songs and press an artist tab, I have to go and google it or go on RUclips and use a playlist that people completely unassociated with Nintendo made.
composers aren’t credited bc of japanese copyright laws. I’m not entirely familiar but iirc when the music is written and put in a game, the copyright ownership is transferred to the publisher
@@mia_2043I believe the reason why they don't is a weird difference in japanese laws. It sucks, but its a lot more normal for composers to only be credited in game, the one time, and otherwise remain more or less anonymous
I don't think Nintendo would be ripping music from the game files directly. These are probably straight out of the DAW - which would mean these versions are actually closer to what the composers made in the first place. Getting sequenced music into a game/software naturally makes it sound different to the original intent, no matter how close the composer is able to get (I've recently been having this issue with a project I'm working on). So if anything, what you hear _in-game_ is the "inaccurate" versions. Bonus fact: if you want music that's _even more_ different between the game and the soundtrack, check out Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. They drown those soundtrack versions in reverb and the release on the strings is much longer, among other things.
Yes, but also no. There is an argument to be made about, whilst it is inaccurate to the artist's intent, it was how we played and experienced these games, how we remembered them, which makes it accurate according to OUR lived memories/experiences. To claim otherwise would be to deny these experiences. And so that makes it valid, in a roundabout way. The pursuit of quality at all costs might have its drawbacks. The trend of lo-fi is basically founded on this. By removing something you actually add a certain character to it. And that thing is the identity of the hardware tasked with reproducing that track. To see what I'm talking about take for example the many restoration projects made on youtube for SNES osts, let's take Donkey Kong country for example. It sounds cool and impressive, but by removing the compression artifacts you actually make it sound less nostalgic, and the feeling is overall different. Same with the GBA compressed tracks, an even stronger case, remove the limitations and it just won't feel the same. No longer lovely scratchy GBA track to its fullest. That is not to say one most reign above the other tough, both are valid. I would argue you can chase the original masters for musical interest, and the og compressed tracks with their limitations for a nostalgic and historicaly accurate experience.
Just putting it out here. Nintendo is notorious for "stealing" derivative works. I say steal cuz it's taking something without asking for permission. Here's a vid that took note of Nintendo's actions. ruclips.net/video/0BMKAH8iliE/видео.htmlsi=J_DGKINhV3u5fq5Q Btw before anyone gets angry, this is normal. An IP holder can use Derivative works..
@@mlfc1950 It's like looking at games on a CRT vs a high definition flat screen. The blurriness of the CRT gave the art the intended effect, but the output on the CRT is technically inaccurate to the source material. The same applies to the music situation. The music you hear is the original source, and the console was inaccurate in its output. So you have a choice to make. Do you release music that is accurate to the original source, or only accurate to the original console it was released on? Even old games archived cannot always be reproduced with CRT effects. You're basically asking to reintroduce the distortion of the originals to match the distortion of the hardware. Like the ship of theseus, which one is truly the "real" one?
the wii music was VERY compressed. these are the files directly from the DAW which is the reason that they dont sound the same. all the compression is removed. which means better quality music. assuming nintendo doesnt want to rip directly from the wii or other consoles.
Sequenced music is not compressed lol Maybe some samples are but the entire point of using sequenced music is so you can have good quality without wasting space
In this case, I feel like that only really explains the clap in the Wii Shop Channel theme It seems like they're also using CD OST versions of songs when available which, in many cases, have a lot of added reverb.
@@WalnutOW Agreed. There is an argument to be made about, whilst it is inaccurate to the artist's intent, it was how we played and experienced these games, how we remembered them, which makes it accurate according to OUR lived memories/experiences. To claim otherwise would be to deny these experiences. And so that makes it valid, in a roundabout way. The pursuit of quality at all costs might have its drawbacks. The trend of lo-fi is basically founded on this. By removing something you actually add a certain character to it. And that thing is the identity of the hardware tasked with reproducing that track. To see what I'm talking about take for example the many restoration projects made on youtube for SNES osts, let's take Donkey Kong country for example. It sounds cool and impressive, but by removing the compression artifacts you actually make it sound less nostalgic, and the feeling is overall different. Same with the GBA compressed tracks, an even stronger case, remove the limitations and it just won't feel the same. No longer lovely scratchy GBA track to its fullest. That is not to say one most reign above the other tough, both are valid. I would argue you can chase the original masters for musical interest, and the og compressed tracks with their limitations for a nostalgic and historicaly accurate experience.
@WalnutOW The Wii/Gamecube hardware cannot output uncompressed CD quality audio (44.1kHz), only a heavily compressed version of the samples or streamed audio (32kHz). It's a hardware limitation. Any sound a GC/Wii outputs is compressed to a lower quality. The only source for the uncompressed versions are the ones Nintendo take from the source material directly. If you like the compressed versions, that's a subjective opinion. It isn't the highest quality, but if you find it the best quality, that's fine. Some people prefer cassete tapes over CDs.
You are entering a philosophical discussion about what the 'source' material is. Maybe, as others have suggested in the comments, we are listening to uncompressed re-encodes, and these align more with the actual masters. Then, what is the original? Time to bust out the spectrograms.
I get your point, but let's take what he said about the console itself playing the midi files, if we were to listen to that song like we've done last 18 years of Wii Channel Music without an official streaming service, then that's, by logic, the original, and not only that but what he said about NM service playing the midi differently gives the point to the console version being the original, since it was made for the console to play and use the midi as it sounds and was designed specifically for it. You cannot say the NM version nor the Smash Bros Version is the original since it isn't what came out first nor the music itself was made for Smash Bros or NM to play, but for the channel itself
Yes this. Audio compression in nintendo titles was always bad to moderately ok. Even when they started using DVD's on the Wii it was still shit. Just sound like the less compressed master from the same source probably.
No no no it's not always. Mario Kart 8 is lower quality than the OST, it caps out at 32000 Hz (like the game files!) compared to full 44100 Hz on the OST
The DS nintendogs soundtrack has some really hard compression though, not sure if that’s how the original sounds were or what, but the RUclips uploads of some of them are perfectly cleaned up so…
Wait it’s intentional?? I hadn’t used my Wii in years until recently when I hacked it to play a bunch of games, thought the disc drive broke over the years for some reason and made noise when turning on
The app's music quality is absolutely amazing if you're a Zelda and/or Splatoon fan cause their BotW and Splatoon 3 tracks are straight from the CDs. The Splatoon 3 music for the band C-Side are actual proper studio tracks that finish properly and a few of them have their extra verses. The tracks from both of these games that have several phases have had them included as well and gives a special little attention to detail to them. I can't wait for their Splatoon 2 additions and whenever they add the Splatoon 3 Ordertune tracks to the app (Ordertune isn't out yet until 11th December so it's understandable why it's not there)
The looping made me think that it would have been really cool if standard audio container formats like ogg and mp3 had support for looping points in their metadata for perfect looping.
@@StarbitLightthey do, but I've never been able to figure out how it is stored, I've only ever seen it used when exporting music from mario kart 8 dx and importing it into mario kart wii.
Actually, there is one song that they may have recorded off the console. The song “Voter Data” from the Everybody Votes Channel has the sound effect of a Mii running in at the beginning, which other rips of the song on RUclips don’t have
I wonder if the reason why it sounds different as these are the raw samples not being compressed in order to fit on a disc or cartridge or a low data use menu? Because it’s being streamed over the Internet, they can offer from much higher audio quality? They did also specify that songs won’t always sound as they do in game
I bring this up as from my own listening experience some of the songs in Splatoon 3’s soundtrack sound a little different than how I remember them either in game or when listening to on RUclips
@@titanic_monarch796 interesting. Perhaps with some of the tracks Nintendo is either having a team re- master the tracks. Or just making ones they feel more suitable for a steaming app?
@Bowser_Plush The changes were made some time ago so I'm not sure. I personally don't like them, so I still favour the fanmade gamerip-based set from the year before the cd release. The prior games didn't do this except for multilayered tracks.
I think Nintendo should add a quality toggle option in future updates of the music app (similar to the extend function). Just so people can choose whether they want to listen to a song with it's default/raw mix or in-game mix.
I doubt it takes a musician to notice them, but I've been making edm music for a LONG time, and yeah these differences are definitely very noticable. Thanks for pointing them out!
they're actually ripped from the cd version of these games splatoon 3 ost (eg) is slightly different from the main game cuz they used the splatoon cd verison "splatune 3" of the song
Not in every case. Mario Kart 8 is very much not and I can promise that. It's quality is worse than the OST being capped at 32 kHz compared to the OST 44100 Hz
Another thing that I know they're doing is having no dead air at the beginning and ends of various pieces. In the case of BOTW all songs are about 2-4 seconds shorter than the rips of the CDs I have. Haven't actually scrutinized things beyond that.
@@halfhydra7280i can't really verify this, but i did notice some songs sounding a little off when i listened to them. actually-and this might just be my brain making stuff up-they have waluigi pinball and wario stadium separately, despite being the same song, however, i feel like i did notice a slight difference in quality between the two, and i have no idea if this wss the case for the original game as well, or if it's even the case here.
Not in every case. As brought up before, there was a Mario Kart 8 soundtrack released, and I can tell you, they did not use that. You can tell, because many variants of tracks were merged into the same song, whereas in nintendo music, they are in their own songs, which I find better in most cases, since there's usually intro music that is never heard in-game. However, I don't like it in some cases. The biggest example is Dolphin Shoals. The soundtrack merged the underwater and deep sea variants were merged in the soundtrack, whereas here, they're not. I don't like this, because the deep sea version is probably the only variant that doesn't have an intro, it just goes straight into the loop. You can actually hear this in the mk8dx audio player, you just have to start the song, then quickly switch to the variant, and you can hear nothing at the beginning, then it starts playing at the loop. I'm also pretty sure that the game stores the music in 32k Hz, which is also the same as nintendo music, so you're not losing anything in the bcp songs, you are only losing quality for the songs that were released in the original soundtrack.
@@buttersddragonIt's not the case for the game, since the game literally uses the same audio file for both tracks. My guess is that they might've used the soundtrack release for wario stadium, but then the game rip for waluigi pinball.
I like accurate rips directly from the sequenced music files (Like .spc and .nsf) because they tend to be the highest quality available while also sounding accurate to what it sounded like in the game. I hate these remastered soundtrack uploads because they drown the track in way too much reverb that it sounds worse and nothing like how you remember it
6:14 is there information what codec Nintendo Music uses? Because Opus at 192kbps should sound similar to MP3 at 320kbps (obvious variations as it's not direct apples to apples). At least 320kbps with any codec should be essentially brute forcing as high quality out of lossy codec as possible, but at some point switching to lossless codecs would be more viable.
i'm just excited for them to add more music, but your video is very interesting. i also hope they add composer credits - i remember hearing someone say there were no composer credits or bios for the songs. i really want them.
unfortunately i don't think that will happen. most companies in japan make you write off an agreement to not have your work credited outside of a credits screen. most of those people aren't even allowed to have a public presence online because of it. ofc things are slowly changing and some companies are getting better at this like sega, but don't expect this to happen with nintendo anytime soon sadly
at 2:55 id like to point out that its not JUST the reverb being changed, the samples used are their original quality source. i suspect nintendo didnt record the music from the hardware (at least for the wii) and instead rendered it through a DAW using the original quality samples, or maybe this is just the case for the everybody votes channel theme?
I think this is confusing the attempt to master/mix tracks for listening purposes as inaccuracy of the mixing meant for use on a console, with sound effects. I dare say Everybody Votes Channel music sounds better in the service than the original.
You make a good point! I later found out that some of the Wii music is actually sourced from the "Touch! Generations SOUND TRACK" CD, which has this mixing. That's obviously meant for a CD player. I think it's up to preference whichever version someone might prefer, and don't entirely mind how it sounds on the app.
That actually makes me wonder whether or not the in-game playback of sequenced tracks are actually the inacurate one. Maybe the software they used to render these tracks is actually closer to what the composers used to make the sequenced music, after all I'd imagine that for live playback on a console, both the samples and the processing may be lower quality than what the composers heard while mixing
Typically when you have a composer on a game they have the system and are playing back their music on the system to see how it sounds. Same for all the artists. The visual artists are working on higher end computers with nice screens but will play it on the system looking at a crt and compensating for it back in the day.
I just have no hope Super Paper Mario will be higher quality than it's initial game version, but I would love to be proven wrong. The way Nintendo handled DS game music on the service shows they're more interested in capturing the "quality" of playing the game itself than enhancing the music in any way. The Nintendogs soundtrack, for instance, seems to be artificially compressed down to the bitrate of the DS speakers, where a standard gamerip is higher quality. I wonder if this added reverb to the Wii tracks is a similar attempt to artificially adjust the music to sound more like "original hardware", which in the case of Wii music would be the speakers on an old early LCD TV
To be fair, the DS is basically an upgraded GBA, so the sound quality, while better than a GBA, still doesn’t sound the best. Seemingly, the SPM music has the sample rate cut in half in the original game due to the music speeding up when using certain items. Nintendo has the clean versions, but only a small clip has been released through their Japanese Mario timeline website
@@BomberDuck It doesn't excuse the fact that the source material is higher quality. This is *the Nintendo music app* so it should only be the highest quality, otherwise illegitimate ways of getting the music are superior. DS music was sampled for the most part yes, but there is no reason that they can't use the higher quality samples. It's been shown that in some of the previous Nintendo Sound Collection soundtracks that DS tracks like MKDS Luigi's Mansion do exist with full quality, so let's hope they do add it with a better sample rate.
@@halfhydra7280 yeah I agree that it should definitely be higher quality. What I’m saying is that there’s still a good chance for the SPM ost to be released in high quality
Most of it just sounds better. If it doesn’t sound how you remember it’s largely due to the games/wii menu music being super compressed. Saying the Wii music is an “inaccurate rip” isn’t accurate. When you compress down the bitrate and sample rate heavily, you can just lose details like reverb and bass and the mids just become more prominent. These are closer to the master recordings, and I’m glad they’re giving us high quality versions of these recordings finally. The drums in some of the Wii Music sound excellent now and some of the sounds are clearly high quality 808 and other drum machine samples and they sound as they always should’ve if they weren’t compressed below 100kbps like they were originally presented to us. The dynamic range
Well, yes and no. Most of these that sound diffrent are from pre-existing soundtrack releases. That is why for example the 1.0 version of the Void theme from Kirby Star Allies is featured, because the soundtrack release was before the updated version came out.
The composer could have made their music knowing the limitations of the system. They probably listened to the music on the wii and compensated for it and maybe even designed the whole song around what it was good at. Think of 8bit music, the composer had to work around what they had, they didn't just make something. This goes for all the artists on the project, not just the audio.
Your anti-clickbait thumbnail giving me all the information I was after tempted me to not click it but you deserve my watch time for doing it like this. Turned out an interesting video worth watching.
Great video. I can’t say I’m surprised there are sequence mix inaccuracies. I wonder how true to life they would be with Wii Sports. The music in bowling sounded like it was from speakers inside a bowling alley; not just pure music
1:24 It would have been cool if they replaced the finger snap with the modern Switch "click" sound effect that accompanies the Switch's branding and logo. It would have been a nice touch, I think, as a form of subliminal advertising.
When Pokemon Co released the Pokemon Red/Green soundtracks last year, there was reverb on every track. These are probably new mixes, from newer versions of the songs for soundtrack releases.
Related: Apparently the version of "The Birth of Hope" from Kirby Star Allies used on Nintendo Music is the pre-2.0.0 version, much like the physical soundtrack. -Other updated tracks kept their up-to-date versions on both soundtracks, but "The Birth of Hope" did not.- [incorrect, see edit note] I suspect that Nintendo sourced Kirby Star Allies' soundtrack from its physical release rather than the game itself, causing this mistake to be repeated. Hopefully this time it gets fixed. *Edit:* I've just found out that the old version of *"Chop Champs"* was also included on the physical soundtrack in place of the new version, and likely also the Nintendo Music soundtrack. This means there are probably two tracks that should be fixed. "The Star-Conquering Traveler", a medley that includes "The Birth of Hope", still retains its updated version.
@@LuigiBlood I'm sure it is a mistake. If it was on purpose, surely there would at least be some sort of acknowledgement of the old version being used. Only including the version with improved mixing as part of two longer tracks as a way of "including both" just makes no sense to me.
7:53 Yes, it is cheaper than a Spotify or any kind of music subscription but cmon. What if I'd like to listen to regular music and Nintendo's music as well? Do I really need 2 subscriptions for that? I understand that this way they have a lot more control over how they present their music but they could've released all their music on other platforms, while having their own platform with these neat features so there's a reason for you to use their app but not forced to. Sell with quality and customer service rather than with brute force. But ofc. It's just Nintendo. What did we honestly expect?
From what I've noticed(being a self proclaimed audiophile), it seems like they've either tried to make some songs pop more as they just don't have the same impact as some of the other music on the app, for example comparing the Wii shop theme to Rainbow Inkantation from Splat-3. There's just a fundamental difference in the people who are gonna be listening to both. Although, a lot of songs do sound pretty much untouched, I think they've just given us the real genuine files on how this music should be played. Thanks for reading my Yapathon Hope you have an amazing rest of your week :)
It's a different master. You can tell the original version is more dynamic and punchy, while the Nintendo music version feels louder and more compressed. It's not that there's more reverb added, it's that it's so compressed that the initial hit is just as loud as the reverb tail. I would assume they did this due to the different way you would be listening to the track. Game music is generally mixed more dynamically than music you hear on the radio. On the Wii, it's meant as background music in combination with other sound effects like menu sounds. Without those other sounds taking up room in the mix, the sole focus is now on the song itself. So it makes sense to mix it how a song would traditionally be mastered. I personally would have liked the original mix as an option, but I can see why they did it that way.
The Donkey Kong Country soundtrack on Nintendo Music also sounds different. It has a weird echo effect. This is because it was taken from the official 1995 soundtrack release, DK Jamz.
6:17 I do want to nitpick the RUclips audio quality comparison a little bit - high quality YT Opus streams (format 251) are in fact encoded at 128Kbps, and this is being compared against 320Kbps of what I assume is Mp3, implying the lower bitrate is worse even though Mp3 is a far inferior format. Hydrogenaudio listening tests have rated 128Kbps Opus to be indistinguishable from the original source in the vast majority of audio samples, so while it's true that YT will reencode the original audio once on video upload, I don't think it would be fair to call its 128Kbps audio stream "inferior quality"
It is bad when you consider the fact that most people uploading these songs don't upload lossless copies - this would be fine if that were the case but re-encoding even just 2 or 3 times at lossy formats causes a much larger loss buildup that makes 128kbps not that great when it comes to Nintendo music in particular
Lol you say "Opus 128kbps its the same thing than original source". If you talk about source like adpcm it's a little bit yes. But if you talk about CD releases totally not. And obvoously for Hi-Res releases (hi totk) nope Hi-Res sound really really better.
This is actually promising. Holding out hope for Super Paper Mario, it may be our only chance to hear it at something greater than 22KHz. I hope as the word gets out that these get ripped because.. you know.
The everybody votes channel music baffles me, some of them are completely rerendered with a multi sample saxophone, but Voter Data is a hardware recording with sfx at the start?
I noticed some songs have slightly different mixing, its a super small difference but there is sounds from the background of the songs that I can hear now, that I couldn't before But i think this is the intended way the composer wants you to listen to the track without hardware compression
One of my favorite examples of some tracks getting an english title for the first time is how the alarm that plays before fighting a King Salmonid in Splatoon is now titled "go off, king!"
Hot take: I care more about the high quality of the raw music file than it sounding accurate to the bad software and speakers of the original hardware.
I'd still want them to just use distributors so apps like Spotify, RUclips (& RUclips Music), Apple Music etc. can easily access them and ask app developers to add these extendability features right into their apps by providing them those loop time codes. Also since we are adding additional data we can just add game title name and some other information as well as a nice cover art for that said music/album. This way people who enjoyed the music but don't have a hardware to benefit a Nintendo subscription and already has a subscription on these platforms enjoy it as well as their own in-house app (which is this) can give the same benefits for users who don't have other subscriptions aside from themselves.
Idk where to put these but here are a few weird things i find interesting about the app: 1. In Mario Kart 8's OST, Wario Stadium and Waluigi pinball are listed as sepparate songs despite being the same song. 2. A few songs from Super Mario Bros 3, Super Mario World and Super Mario Sunshine are availible through the super mario bros wonder ost's breaktime songs Also go listen to that fire emblem gba game's OST. Never played any fire emblem game but the songs are fire ❤
Nostalgia aside, the tracks being different and most likely the raw original source files is the best outcome. In what other occasion we would have access to those? I will gladly take this route of them releasing those versions.
My JP friends and myself thought we were going mad when we heard the Wii Channel music being werid and off, an had the exact same thought as this. Thank you for putting this together, and helping us feel not insane.
I really hope we get a desktop client. I actually quite like the fact we are getting more value for our subscription. It's not something I'd pay for on its own, however because I already subscribe to Nintendo online it's definitely something I'm going to get some good use out of.
When I was asking for Nintendo to release soundtracks this app isn’t what I had in mind. I’d rather just buy specific soundtracks and not need to get the garbage online service just for the music. I can’t be the only one who pessimistically thinks this only exists to give Nintendo more leverage over people who post soundtracks to youtube
Nintendo music is very revolutionary for that repeat for __ minutes at certain looping pointa idea. It's very immersion breaking to hear a song fade out before repeating at the start again if you want to repeat. I would probably actually use it if they added more of the songs i actually like.
They sound much higher quality, it was immediately noticeable. It's like the tracks aren't as compressed anymore. It's clear, crisp and exactly what I've been wanting from Nintendo.
My biggest problem with the app is the extreme cherry picking they have done on what game tracks are on the app. I don’t need or expect them to have added everything on day one, but at the same time, they have to have all the audio files stored somewhere, so I’ll still be using RUclips rips for most of the Nintendo game soundtracks
Back in the day I experienced the same thing with games that had official soundtracks released on CD. The Nights into Dreams soundtrack CD used different samples for each instrument which made the tracks as a whole sound different. Most likely the CD represented what the composer actually wanted because the console had limited memory space to store each instrument sample. Either way it's interesting that Nintendo took the time to change the samples. Though it would have been more ideal if they offered both versions in the app whenever they did, just as an extra for the purists out there.
yep they've been mixed for stereo on the app while the wii is actually mixed in Dolby Pro Logic II, made to be decoded by a surround receiver. If you listen to your wii and wii games through any kind of stereo speakers system you're not actually listening to it accurately
@@delarageaz Pro Logic II isn't a mixing standard. It's software that takes normal stereo audio and uses an algorithm to spread the image out to the speakers behind you. Imagine a piece of paper; while flat, that would be your stereo image, all the sound wrapped from left to right and everything in between. Pro Logic, Dolby Headphone, DTS Neo, they use their software to essentially roll that piece of paper into a circle. Same paper, same stereo signal, just "wrapped" around you.
@ yep but as audio engineers when we know that it's likely that the device we mix the music for will process the audio like that, well we will mix into a decoder instead of mixing in standards stereo. So the songs are still likely optimized to be played that way.
It’s also important to remember that when played in-game, the music has to share space with sound effects and whatnot, which places so constraints on how it can be played.
It is believed that the music Nintendo has always released sounds with that reverberation and is slightly different from what we can hear in the games, as it seems Nintendo thinks that the music heard in the games is of lower quality than what they want to release. The same applies to the soundtrack of Super Mario 64 when we compare the CD version with the one that can be heard in the game.
Twilight Princess HD soundtrack on CD also has some extra reverb applied compared to the in-game files. And I think it sounds better than the in-game files as a result.
this is super neat, that they're re-recording all of the sequenced songs. i think the best way to go about this is to have two versions of the songs, game rips and these new re-recordings
its all ost album music, a good example is splatoon 3's opening, the "dun dun dudu-dun dun dudu-dun dun dudu-" should be on loop after the main riff, but they made it louder and more intense at the end to give the song a proper ending
I know for older games when releasing the soundtrack on CD Nintendo wouldn't just record the game audio but remastered it specifically for the soundtrack. I'd bet when making this app they grabbed the audio they once released on CD instead of grabbing in-game audio. The differences you're hearing might be because of this.
I think the reason is because it's not that easy to work with sequences outside of the games they're in. As someone who likes to rip sequenced music from various games, they're pretty hard to make sound exactly the same
These tracks appear to not be direct game rips, but are dumped from other sources. The fire temple theme has the same problem as the original CD release where the second half is cut entirely. Since these are the highest quality versions from a technical standpoint, it makes sense that these versions get used. They might go back in later to fix some of the issues this process introduces, but I won't get my hopes up.
I really hope they add an option to switch between different versions of songs, like how there are different versions of madrid Drive for the normal track, the museum, and the football stadium, but you can only listen to the normal version in the app (the gonna need to add something like this when they add the sword/shield ost bc of the gym leader theme)
I remember opening the shop on the dsi for the first time while wearing headphones, and there was just a whole layer to the music that you just couldn't hear over the speakers
Only way they can make me consider getting this music app is if they released the whole Smash Bros Ultimate completely decompressed and with the composer's original quality intent. Galeem and Dharkon themes, Id Purpose and many others sound quite lacking with the compromises they did to make the soundtrack fit on the game card, this Music App is the perfect chance to have them with their true original quality. And Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 music please.
Interesting video! I had listened to the everybody votes channel menu theme and it was definitely different from what I remembered but I thought that it just had been a while since I heard it. Hearing them side by side and they're definitely different! Honestly, just for listening to while commuting I don't mind the extra reverb, but it is unfortunate for archival purposes. Like you said, I really appreciate Nintendo giving this app to us but I don't think it's worth it to subscribe to NSO just for this. Still super happy with the app! I hope more music gets added soon.
The first thing I did before watching the video was double check if this was the same channel that inspected Nintendo music a few months earlier. Glad that it is, and I am now subscribed so I don't forget next time. Lol
well the Wii's original soundtrack is actually meant to be listened to in 5.1 Surround, they've converted it down to stereo for the app and it's likely that it's actually more accurate in the app compared to the down to stereo version you're listening to on your wii (or emulator) without a Dolby processor
Ok but you know what does have an issue? Most games. "320 kbps" is not 320 kbps in a way. For example, Mario Kart 8's (NON BCP) songs are still capped at 32 kHz (as you can tell via spectrogram) despite the source material being much higher quality (as we can tell because most of these games actually have OST releases). I was really hoping that the Nintendo app SPECIFICALLY FOR MUSIC would have only the highest quality available because there's no other legal source. It's worth noting that the Wiis music files from the console is capped at 32000 Hz and the Nintendo Music versions are not - they go to a full 44100 Hz which is probably also part of why it sounds a little off. More MK8 specific notes: some if not all of the BCP songs were actually given different mastering, and I think it's actually an improvement. Actually, Mario Kart 8 is just a weird scenario in general because in the game about 1 minute of Super Bell Subway's main theme is cut compared to the OST, but that OST segment is also present here - so clearly it isn't a direct rip from the game files but it's also still just as compressed? This is really sad.
@@Jonas-tc8qt I did yes. Also, I might've just thought of a legitimate reason why they cannot just use the OST versions. Each of the tracks has variations, and for soundtracks like this which has multiple tracks for a song, the OST might not have those parts separated. One specific case of that for MK8DX is Electrodome: the OST song has a crossfade between the two versions whereas the game has the full intro and loop - which is what they hosted on the app. Dang, this is actually really complicated but I still wish they had put the originals before compression. I guess I'm just gonna keep my expectations low and hope for the best we get low sample rate stuff at a higher one for the first time
@@squiddu I didnt do ABX an that yet, and I didnt listen to the music on my good equipment yet. I'll See if it affects my listening. But for an music app, i think we can expect more.
The thing I find interesting is that games with DLC like Breath Of The Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Pokémon ScarVi have the songs from their DLCs present in Nintendo Music - except for the songs in the Happy Home Paradise DLC for New Horizons.
I thought that it might’ve been different but I absolutely paid no mind to it since I think the reverb and the different instrumentals sound very nice, makes it feel updated almost.
So, from an audio engineer standpoint, I feel like they basically made the tracks louder. The thing is that when you try to put music louder you have to compress the highest levels of the sound so the lower ones get louder (which is why there's more reverb). According to a comment by @samcandles, apparently they come from the 2008 CD version, which makes sense considering loudness wars (which is making the song as loud as possible, by compressing it) were at its peak at 2008. So, I think that's why there's more reverb. And to clarify, audio loudness compression is different to audio quality compression. The first one, is just reducing the peaks of the audio to make the lows louder while quality compression is making the sound quality to sound less clear and the thing is that when you reduce quality, you reduce file size, which is very important when you have limited space.
I think I may prefer the extra reverb the Wii music has in the app, feels more like… the Wii. Now there is one song I’ve noted that has something crucial missing in its rip. The marching in breath of the wild’s hyrule castle theme. It loses something special without them
If you listen to the song "Voter Data", at the beginning, you can hear Mii footsteps. And also for the song "Suggest a Question", you can hear a sound effect.
Iirc, older Nintendo consoles had lower sampling rate, so low pass filter had to be applied to avoid aliasing. That cut higher frequencies (evident in clap sound) and probably had effect on reverbs. It might be interesting to play with the Nintendo Music fules to see, if lowering the quality is going to make the same effect.
@@LetThereBeLight-26 another one comes from Save Theme Tomodachi Collection. It sounds so compressed but that's because the other instruments aside from the lead melody were toned down on intensity for some reason
Theory: On the Wii, they optimized the mixing for built in TV speakers. But for a dedicated music app, they could go back and optimize it for headphones based listening. Also the Wii used a lot of Live MIDI stuff, and the reverb is an effect, rather than a prebaked render, hence the differences.
Nintendo had previously done this on RUclips when they have uploaded the Twilight Princess Hyrule Field theme and Midna's Lament. They are much higher quality than the music files in the game. This is not a mixing problem nor is it an inaccuracy. This is simply us being exposed to the compressed version of music first, because of the hardware limitations.
This is the problem, people prefer the altered versions they hear all the time. These are probably actually the "real" versions, but we never heard them, so they sound wrong
nintendo released the wii shop channel theme (along with the mii plaza theme) on the Touch! Generations soundtrack CD all the way back in 2008. Those songs had the same amount of reverb there as it does in the new app. i feel like maybe this extra reverby sound could be intentional.
I think they must have sourced as much music as they could from official soundtrack releases like that. That's definitely where they got the Star Allies and Breath of the Wild tracks.
@@Evilgrapez 100%, tomodachi collection's soundtrack on nintendo music is literally just ripped from the soundtrack release they did in 2011, sadly i think that release seems to be missing some tracks so sourcing from their already released soundtrack releases might not always be the best move
@@inopmusicis Nintendogs from a CD or is it straight from the game?
@@Evilgrapez I don't think it's quite that, because there are many songs here that never got an official release in any way and yet have this different sound to them. (in regards to the Wii music)
The Donkey Kong Country music was also taken from the official 1995 soundtrack release, DK Jamz, explaining the echo effect.
Well this is a solid app to officially listen to Nintendo based songs, I honestly wished the app would go the extra mile by crediting the artist and composers that made the song, which is what those RUclips ripped channels had done prior.
That's not the extra mile that's the bare minimum 😭
@@mia_2043Sure is, I don't make much music at all (mostly for fun and myself) and I can hardly call myself a composer, but it's a job deserving of a lot more respect than people usually give, and they, like any artist, deserve credit for it.
@@piyushmenon4987 Even outside of giving proper credit it’s just a useful feature that’s completely missing, if I want to listen to the Pokémon Music made by Toby Fox, I can’t just go to one of the songs and press an artist tab, I have to go and google it or go on RUclips and use a playlist that people completely unassociated with Nintendo made.
composers aren’t credited bc of japanese copyright laws. I’m not entirely familiar but iirc when the music is written and put in a game, the copyright ownership is transferred to the publisher
@@mia_2043I believe the reason why they don't is a weird difference in japanese laws. It sucks, but its a lot more normal for composers to only be credited in game, the one time, and otherwise remain more or less anonymous
I mean, I doubt the differences are a mistake; they're more likely to be intentional tweaks like with a lot of their old CD soundtracks
And new ones. There’s a big EQ difference between the in game and OST music for the recent Pokémon games.
The recent pokemon games OST are completly remastered. like, best example to experience it is how Battle! Calyrex sounds ingame and on soundtrack
It probably is the exact same OST tracks
Idk why they would do that, that just defeats the entire purpose of it
Might CD the same files as the CDs
the only channel I trust for quality rips with my life is SilvaGunner
Real
you spelled it wrong 💔
SiIvaGunner*
GilvaSunner legitimately uploaded amazing high quality rips
@@terdik36nuh uh, SiIvagunner my GOAT
I don't think Nintendo would be ripping music from the game files directly. These are probably straight out of the DAW - which would mean these versions are actually closer to what the composers made in the first place. Getting sequenced music into a game/software naturally makes it sound different to the original intent, no matter how close the composer is able to get (I've recently been having this issue with a project I'm working on). So if anything, what you hear _in-game_ is the "inaccurate" versions.
Bonus fact: if you want music that's _even more_ different between the game and the soundtrack, check out Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time. They drown those soundtrack versions in reverb and the release on the strings is much longer, among other things.
Yes, but also no. There is an argument to be made about, whilst it is inaccurate to the artist's intent, it was how we played and experienced these games, how we remembered them, which makes it accurate according to OUR lived memories/experiences. To claim otherwise would be to deny these experiences. And so that makes it valid, in a roundabout way. The pursuit of quality at all costs might have its drawbacks. The trend of lo-fi is basically founded on this. By removing something you actually add a certain character to it. And that thing is the identity of the hardware tasked with reproducing that track. To see what I'm talking about take for example the many restoration projects made on youtube for SNES osts, let's take Donkey Kong country for example. It sounds cool and impressive, but by removing the compression artifacts you actually make it sound less nostalgic, and the feeling is overall different. Same with the GBA compressed tracks, an even stronger case, remove the limitations and it just won't feel the same. No longer lovely scratchy GBA track to its fullest. That is not to say one most reign above the other tough, both are valid. I would argue you can chase the original masters for musical interest, and the og compressed tracks with their limitations for a nostalgic and historicaly accurate experience.
Oh hey!
Just putting it out here. Nintendo is notorious for "stealing" derivative works. I say steal cuz it's taking something without asking for permission.
Here's a vid that took note of Nintendo's actions.
ruclips.net/video/0BMKAH8iliE/видео.htmlsi=J_DGKINhV3u5fq5Q
Btw before anyone gets angry, this is normal. An IP holder can use Derivative works..
@@mlfc1950there is something to be said about artists intent. And if anything it's cool we can see a version of that released to the public.
@@mlfc1950 It's like looking at games on a CRT vs a high definition flat screen. The blurriness of the CRT gave the art the intended effect, but the output on the CRT is technically inaccurate to the source material.
The same applies to the music situation. The music you hear is the original source, and the console was inaccurate in its output. So you have a choice to make. Do you release music that is accurate to the original source, or only accurate to the original console it was released on? Even old games archived cannot always be reproduced with CRT effects. You're basically asking to reintroduce the distortion of the originals to match the distortion of the hardware. Like the ship of theseus, which one is truly the "real" one?
the wii music was VERY compressed. these are the files directly from the DAW which is the reason that they dont sound the same. all the compression is removed. which means better quality music. assuming nintendo doesnt want to rip directly from the wii or other consoles.
Sequenced music is not compressed lol
Maybe some samples are but the entire point of using sequenced music is so you can have good quality without wasting space
In this case, I feel like that only really explains the clap in the Wii Shop Channel theme
It seems like they're also using CD OST versions of songs when available which, in many cases, have a lot of added reverb.
“Better quality” is subjective. It’s possible that whatever the Wii did to the music made it sound subjectively better.
@@WalnutOW Agreed. There is an argument to be made about, whilst it is inaccurate to the artist's intent, it was how we played and experienced these games, how we remembered them, which makes it accurate according to OUR lived memories/experiences. To claim otherwise would be to deny these experiences. And so that makes it valid, in a roundabout way. The pursuit of quality at all costs might have its drawbacks. The trend of lo-fi is basically founded on this. By removing something you actually add a certain character to it. And that thing is the identity of the hardware tasked with reproducing that track. To see what I'm talking about take for example the many restoration projects made on youtube for SNES osts, let's take Donkey Kong country for example. It sounds cool and impressive, but by removing the compression artifacts you actually make it sound less nostalgic, and the feeling is overall different. Same with the GBA compressed tracks, an even stronger case, remove the limitations and it just won't feel the same. No longer lovely scratchy GBA track to its fullest. That is not to say one most reign above the other tough, both are valid. I would argue you can chase the original masters for musical interest, and the og compressed tracks with their limitations for a nostalgic and historicaly accurate experience.
@WalnutOW The Wii/Gamecube hardware cannot output uncompressed CD quality audio (44.1kHz), only a heavily compressed version of the samples or streamed audio (32kHz). It's a hardware limitation. Any sound a GC/Wii outputs is compressed to a lower quality. The only source for the uncompressed versions are the ones Nintendo take from the source material directly.
If you like the compressed versions, that's a subjective opinion. It isn't the highest quality, but if you find it the best quality, that's fine. Some people prefer cassete tapes over CDs.
You are entering a philosophical discussion about what the 'source' material is. Maybe, as others have suggested in the comments, we are listening to uncompressed re-encodes, and these align more with the actual masters. Then, what is the original? Time to bust out the spectrograms.
The Version from the original source files is the real Version in my opinion. Or at least i want it to be. I want the best audio Quality
I get your point, but let's take what he said about the console itself playing the midi files, if we were to listen to that song like we've done last 18 years of Wii Channel Music without an official streaming service, then that's, by logic, the original, and not only that but what he said about NM service playing the midi differently gives the point to the console version being the original, since it was made for the console to play and use the midi as it sounds and was designed specifically for it. You cannot say the NM version nor the Smash Bros Version is the original since it isn't what came out first nor the music itself was made for Smash Bros or NM to play, but for the channel itself
bro the ones that we grew up with on the console is what most people would call the "original"
could just separate them as original and remasters
@@Ozides You could also argue, that we never heard the original - until now.
Its certainly not obvious which interpretation is the "correct" one.
I think the audio files on NM are the originals files dropped out from the studios, the Wii's BGM are very compressed at 32Khz and 256kbps or less
Yes this. Audio compression in nintendo titles was always bad to moderately ok. Even when they started using DVD's on the Wii it was still shit.
Just sound like the less compressed master from the same source probably.
No no no it's not always. Mario Kart 8 is lower quality than the OST, it caps out at 32000 Hz (like the game files!) compared to full 44100 Hz on the OST
The DS nintendogs soundtrack has some really hard compression though, not sure if that’s how the original sounds were or what, but the RUclips uploads of some of them are perfectly cleaned up so…
Isn't the music from the Wii Menu and Channels sequenced though?
I can agree with this.
The difference between the app and the "original" versions is GOOD!!
I appreciate you including the wii's startup buzz sounds, I find them really cool and nostalgic :)
Power button: *gets pressed*
PCB: WAKE UP EVERYBODY!
all the other parts but the disc drive: ok
the disc drive: buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Wait it’s intentional?? I hadn’t used my Wii in years until recently when I hacked it to play a bunch of games, thought the disc drive broke over the years for some reason and made noise when turning on
@@ceumacaco5044it's normal
@@ceumacaco5044it's supposed to make that noise because it's the DVD drive checking if there is a disc inserted
The app's music quality is absolutely amazing if you're a Zelda and/or Splatoon fan cause their BotW and Splatoon 3 tracks are straight from the CDs. The Splatoon 3 music for the band C-Side are actual proper studio tracks that finish properly and a few of them have their extra verses. The tracks from both of these games that have several phases have had them included as well and gives a special little attention to detail to them. I can't wait for their Splatoon 2 additions and whenever they add the Splatoon 3 Ordertune tracks to the app (Ordertune isn't out yet until 11th December so it's understandable why it's not there)
I need aquasonic and big betrayal in my life so bad, can't believe I have to wait till Dec 11th smh
If they're including songs with phases I can't wait until we get the Xenoblade 3 chain attack theme on Nintendo Music.
I need my sashimori songs
Will be waiting for the tears of the kingdom release
The looping made me think that it would have been really cool if standard audio container formats like ogg and mp3 had support for looping points in their metadata for perfect looping.
wav format does support some looping points metadata 👀
idk, I just use .Nus3audio
@@StarbitLightthey do, but I've never been able to figure out how it is stored, I've only ever seen it used when exporting music from mario kart 8 dx and importing it into mario kart wii.
OGG does, but it's non-standard...
Oh, I hope they're not using mp3 here lol
Actually, there is one song that they may have recorded off the console. The song “Voter Data” from the Everybody Votes Channel has the sound effect of a Mii running in at the beginning, which other rips of the song on RUclips don’t have
Oh god...
I hate that
I wonder if the reason why it sounds different as these are the raw samples not being compressed in order to fit on a disc or cartridge or a low data use menu? Because it’s being streamed over the Internet, they can offer from much higher audio quality?
They did also specify that songs won’t always sound as they do in game
I bring this up as from my own listening experience some of the songs in Splatoon 3’s soundtrack sound a little different than how I remember them either in game or when listening to on RUclips
@@Bowser_Plush The tracks in splatoon 3 are different on the cd release to the game, down to different intstruments and sequencies in some
@@titanic_monarch796 interesting. Perhaps with some of the tracks Nintendo is either having a team re- master the tracks. Or just making ones they feel more suitable for a steaming app?
@Bowser_Plush The changes were made some time ago so I'm not sure. I personally don't like them, so I still favour the fanmade gamerip-based set from the year before the cd release. The prior games didn't do this except for multilayered tracks.
@@Bowser_Plush To be clear, a disk is likely to have higher quality than a streaming service (depending, but for the most part)
I think Nintendo should add a quality toggle option in future updates of the music app (similar to the extend function). Just so people can choose whether they want to listen to a song with it's default/raw mix or in-game mix.
I doubt it takes a musician to notice them, but I've been making edm music for a LONG time, and yeah these differences are definitely very noticable. Thanks for pointing them out!
they're actually ripped from the cd version of these games
splatoon 3 ost (eg) is slightly different from the main game cuz they used the splatoon cd verison "splatune 3" of the song
Not in every case. Mario Kart 8 is very much not and I can promise that. It's quality is worse than the OST being capped at 32 kHz compared to the OST 44100 Hz
Another thing that I know they're doing is having no dead air at the beginning and ends of various pieces. In the case of BOTW all songs are about 2-4 seconds shorter than the rips of the CDs I have. Haven't actually scrutinized things beyond that.
@@halfhydra7280i can't really verify this, but i did notice some songs sounding a little off when i listened to them. actually-and this might just be my brain making stuff up-they have waluigi pinball and wario stadium separately, despite being the same song, however, i feel like i did notice a slight difference in quality between the two, and i have no idea if this wss the case for the original game as well, or if it's even the case here.
Not in every case. As brought up before, there was a Mario Kart 8 soundtrack released, and I can tell you, they did not use that. You can tell, because many variants of tracks were merged into the same song, whereas in nintendo music, they are in their own songs, which I find better in most cases, since there's usually intro music that is never heard in-game. However, I don't like it in some cases. The biggest example is Dolphin Shoals. The soundtrack merged the underwater and deep sea variants were merged in the soundtrack, whereas here, they're not. I don't like this, because the deep sea version is probably the only variant that doesn't have an intro, it just goes straight into the loop. You can actually hear this in the mk8dx audio player, you just have to start the song, then quickly switch to the variant, and you can hear nothing at the beginning, then it starts playing at the loop.
I'm also pretty sure that the game stores the music in 32k Hz, which is also the same as nintendo music, so you're not losing anything in the bcp songs, you are only losing quality for the songs that were released in the original soundtrack.
@@buttersddragonIt's not the case for the game, since the game literally uses the same audio file for both tracks. My guess is that they might've used the soundtrack release for wario stadium, but then the game rip for waluigi pinball.
Noo, I dont want "accurate" rips. I want High Quality versions!
This is all I wanted for years. These 32khz 4 Bit ADPCM songs are sh*t
[Confused HCS sounds]
You want high quality rips? Better check out siivagunner, they release high quality rips every day.
Church of Kondo
I like accurate rips directly from the sequenced music files (Like .spc and .nsf) because they tend to be the highest quality available while also sounding accurate to what it sounded like in the game.
I hate these remastered soundtrack uploads because they drown the track in way too much reverb that it sounds worse and nothing like how you remember it
@SPCOOKIE
Omg I hate the reverb
The moment they add New Leaf’s soundtrack to the Nintendo Music, my study and work sessions will change forever
Does it come with KK songs though?
@@YujiUedaFan i would think so as they added ALL of the kk songs and variants to the new horizons soundtrack
6:14 is there information what codec Nintendo Music uses? Because Opus at 192kbps should sound similar to MP3 at 320kbps (obvious variations as it's not direct apples to apples). At least 320kbps with any codec should be essentially brute forcing as high quality out of lossy codec as possible, but at some point switching to lossless codecs would be more viable.
i'm just excited for them to add more music, but your video is very interesting. i also hope they add composer credits - i remember hearing someone say there were no composer credits or bios for the songs. i really want them.
unfortunately i don't think that will happen. most companies in japan make you write off an agreement to not have your work credited outside of a credits screen. most of those people aren't even allowed to have a public presence online because of it. ofc things are slowly changing and some companies are getting better at this like sega, but don't expect this to happen with nintendo anytime soon sadly
What’s weird is that the fake bands for splatoon are credited to their songs???
at 2:55 id like to point out that its not JUST the reverb being changed, the samples used are their original quality source. i suspect nintendo didnt record the music from the hardware (at least for the wii) and instead rendered it through a DAW using the original quality samples, or maybe this is just the case for the everybody votes channel theme?
I feel like they said exactly that in the video
I think this is confusing the attempt to master/mix tracks for listening purposes as inaccuracy of the mixing meant for use on a console, with sound effects.
I dare say Everybody Votes Channel music sounds better in the service than the original.
yeah it sounds different
You make a good point! I later found out that some of the Wii music is actually sourced from the "Touch! Generations SOUND TRACK" CD, which has this mixing. That's obviously meant for a CD player. I think it's up to preference whichever version someone might prefer, and don't entirely mind how it sounds on the app.
Except for the fact they left the running noise in.
@JamesMoney I kind of wish they had both
That actually makes me wonder whether or not the in-game playback of sequenced tracks are actually the inacurate one. Maybe the software they used to render these tracks is actually closer to what the composers used to make the sequenced music, after all I'd imagine that for live playback on a console, both the samples and the processing may be lower quality than what the composers heard while mixing
Typically when you have a composer on a game they have the system and are playing back their music on the system to see how it sounds. Same for all the artists. The visual artists are working on higher end computers with nice screens but will play it on the system looking at a crt and compensating for it back in the day.
I just have no hope Super Paper Mario will be higher quality than it's initial game version, but I would love to be proven wrong. The way Nintendo handled DS game music on the service shows they're more interested in capturing the "quality" of playing the game itself than enhancing the music in any way. The Nintendogs soundtrack, for instance, seems to be artificially compressed down to the bitrate of the DS speakers, where a standard gamerip is higher quality. I wonder if this added reverb to the Wii tracks is a similar attempt to artificially adjust the music to sound more like "original hardware", which in the case of Wii music would be the speakers on an old early LCD TV
To be fair, the DS is basically an upgraded GBA, so the sound quality, while better than a GBA, still doesn’t sound the best. Seemingly, the SPM music has the sample rate cut in half in the original game due to the music speeding up when using certain items. Nintendo has the clean versions, but only a small clip has been released through their Japanese Mario timeline website
@@BomberDuck It doesn't excuse the fact that the source material is higher quality. This is *the Nintendo music app* so it should only be the highest quality, otherwise illegitimate ways of getting the music are superior. DS music was sampled for the most part yes, but there is no reason that they can't use the higher quality samples. It's been shown that in some of the previous Nintendo Sound Collection soundtracks that DS tracks like MKDS Luigi's Mansion do exist with full quality, so let's hope they do add it with a better sample rate.
I'd say old CRT and Plasma TVs were still pretty common when the Wii was current, in combination with LCDs
@@halfhydra7280 yeah I agree that it should definitely be higher quality. What I’m saying is that there’s still a good chance for the SPM ost to be released in high quality
@@BomberDuck Where can I find this clip? Interested to listen!
Most of it just sounds better. If it doesn’t sound how you remember it’s largely due to the games/wii menu music being super compressed.
Saying the Wii music is an “inaccurate rip” isn’t accurate. When you compress down the bitrate and sample rate heavily, you can just lose details like reverb and bass and the mids just become more prominent. These are closer to the master recordings, and I’m glad they’re giving us high quality versions of these recordings finally. The drums in some of the Wii Music sound excellent now and some of the sounds are clearly high quality 808 and other drum machine samples and they sound as they always should’ve if they weren’t compressed below 100kbps like they were originally presented to us.
The dynamic range
Well, yes and no. Most of these that sound diffrent are from pre-existing soundtrack releases. That is why for example the 1.0 version of the Void theme from Kirby Star Allies is featured, because the soundtrack release was before the updated version came out.
The composer could have made their music knowing the limitations of the system. They probably listened to the music on the wii and compensated for it and maybe even designed the whole song around what it was good at. Think of 8bit music, the composer had to work around what they had, they didn't just make something. This goes for all the artists on the project, not just the audio.
Your anti-clickbait thumbnail giving me all the information I was after tempted me to not click it but you deserve my watch time for doing it like this. Turned out an interesting video worth watching.
Great video. I can’t say I’m surprised there are sequence mix inaccuracies. I wonder how true to life they would be with Wii Sports. The music in bowling sounded like it was from speakers inside a bowling alley; not just pure music
1:24 It would have been cool if they replaced the finger snap with the modern Switch "click" sound effect that accompanies the Switch's branding and logo. It would have been a nice touch, I think, as a form of subliminal advertising.
THANK YOU SO MUCH THIS IS LITERALLY SO IMPORTANT AND THE QUALITY IS NOT MENTIONED???!?!?!?
When Pokemon Co released the Pokemon Red/Green soundtracks last year, there was reverb on every track.
These are probably new mixes, from newer versions of the songs for soundtrack releases.
Related: Apparently the version of "The Birth of Hope" from Kirby Star Allies used on Nintendo Music is the pre-2.0.0 version, much like the physical soundtrack. -Other updated tracks kept their up-to-date versions on both soundtracks, but "The Birth of Hope" did not.- [incorrect, see edit note]
I suspect that Nintendo sourced Kirby Star Allies' soundtrack from its physical release rather than the game itself, causing this mistake to be repeated. Hopefully this time it gets fixed.
*Edit:* I've just found out that the old version of *"Chop Champs"* was also included on the physical soundtrack in place of the new version, and likely also the Nintendo Music soundtrack. This means there are probably two tracks that should be fixed.
"The Star-Conquering Traveler", a medley that includes "The Birth of Hope", still retains its updated version.
This is not a mistake. They wanted to include both. You can listen to the updated version through the medley or through the Final Movement version
@@LuigiBlood I'm sure it is a mistake. If it was on purpose, surely there would at least be some sort of acknowledgement of the old version being used. Only including the version with improved mixing as part of two longer tracks as a way of "including both" just makes no sense to me.
7:53 Yes, it is cheaper than a Spotify or any kind of music subscription but cmon. What if I'd like to listen to regular music and Nintendo's music as well? Do I really need 2 subscriptions for that? I understand that this way they have a lot more control over how they present their music but they could've released all their music on other platforms, while having their own platform with these neat features so there's a reason for you to use their app but not forced to.
Sell with quality and customer service rather than with brute force.
But ofc. It's just Nintendo. What did we honestly expect?
From what I've noticed(being a self proclaimed audiophile), it seems like they've either tried to make some songs pop more as they just don't have the same impact as some of the other music on the app, for example comparing the Wii shop theme to Rainbow Inkantation from Splat-3. There's just a fundamental difference in the people who are gonna be listening to both. Although, a lot of songs do sound pretty much untouched, I think they've just given us the real genuine files on how this music should be played.
Thanks for reading my Yapathon
Hope you have an amazing rest of your week :)
It's a different master. You can tell the original version is more dynamic and punchy, while the Nintendo music version feels louder and more compressed. It's not that there's more reverb added, it's that it's so compressed that the initial hit is just as loud as the reverb tail. I would assume they did this due to the different way you would be listening to the track. Game music is generally mixed more dynamically than music you hear on the radio. On the Wii, it's meant as background music in combination with other sound effects like menu sounds. Without those other sounds taking up room in the mix, the sole focus is now on the song itself. So it makes sense to mix it how a song would traditionally be mastered. I personally would have liked the original mix as an option, but I can see why they did it that way.
The Donkey Kong Country soundtrack on Nintendo Music also sounds different. It has a weird echo effect. This is because it was taken from the official 1995 soundtrack release, DK Jamz.
6:17 I do want to nitpick the RUclips audio quality comparison a little bit - high quality YT Opus streams (format 251) are in fact encoded at 128Kbps, and this is being compared against 320Kbps of what I assume is Mp3, implying the lower bitrate is worse even though Mp3 is a far inferior format. Hydrogenaudio listening tests have rated 128Kbps Opus to be indistinguishable from the original source in the vast majority of audio samples, so while it's true that YT will reencode the original audio once on video upload, I don't think it would be fair to call its 128Kbps audio stream "inferior quality"
It is bad when you consider the fact that most people uploading these songs don't upload lossless copies - this would be fine if that were the case but re-encoding even just 2 or 3 times at lossy formats causes a much larger loss buildup that makes 128kbps not that great when it comes to Nintendo music in particular
Do we know if nintendo is using MP3?
Lol you say "Opus 128kbps its the same thing than original source". If you talk about source like adpcm it's a little bit yes. But if you talk about CD releases totally not. And obvoously for Hi-Res releases (hi totk) nope Hi-Res sound really really better.
It is like MPEG vs AV1?
@@lena8028 high res audio is all placebo marketing bullcrap anyway
1:48 I was JUST THINKING THAT
This is actually promising. Holding out hope for Super Paper Mario, it may be our only chance to hear it at something greater than 22KHz. I hope as the word gets out that these get ripped because.. you know.
i also hope that they start crediting their composers
The everybody votes channel music baffles me, some of them are completely rerendered with a multi sample saxophone, but Voter Data is a hardware recording with sfx at the start?
love it when the captions recongnize the wii dvd drive as music
I noticed some songs have slightly different mixing, its a super small difference but there is sounds from the background of the songs that I can hear now, that I couldn't before
But i think this is the intended way the composer wants you to listen to the track without hardware compression
Just like how we have a feature on RUclips to turn up the quality to 4K, it should be the same to turn it up to 1,411 kbps if we wanted to
I don’t care if it’s ‘inaccurate’ to the original version, that louder clap in the Wii Shop Channel is wonderful.
I hope Nintendo decides to add more Pokemon in than just Scarlet and Violet
I really hope they'll release the music from the Mario and Luigi RPGs from 3DS (Dream Team and Paper Jam). Those games' tracks were so compressed!
One of my favorite examples of some tracks getting an english title for the first time is how the alarm that plays before fighting a King Salmonid in Splatoon is now titled "go off, king!"
Me with only one side of my headphones working: "I see"
Me listening with no earphones:
Sound _bank_ , not SoundFont. The latter can very easily get confused for the branded file format made specifically for playing back MIDI files.
Hot take:
I care more about the high quality of the raw music file than it sounding accurate to the bad software and speakers of the original hardware.
I'd still want them to just use distributors so apps like Spotify, RUclips (& RUclips Music), Apple Music etc. can easily access them and ask app developers to add these extendability features right into their apps by providing them those loop time codes. Also since we are adding additional data we can just add game title name and some other information as well as a nice cover art for that said music/album. This way people who enjoyed the music but don't have a hardware to benefit a Nintendo subscription and already has a subscription on these platforms enjoy it as well as their own in-house app (which is this) can give the same benefits for users who don't have other subscriptions aside from themselves.
why isn't this app ported to the switch? you could use this on the tv
That'd be so cool
Idk where to put these but here are a few weird things i find interesting about the app:
1. In Mario Kart 8's OST, Wario Stadium and Waluigi pinball are listed as sepparate songs despite being the same song.
2. A few songs from Super Mario Bros 3, Super Mario World and Super Mario Sunshine are availible through the super mario bros wonder ost's breaktime songs
Also go listen to that fire emblem gba game's OST. Never played any fire emblem game but the songs are fire ❤
Nice video
Its cool to see the specific details like data usage and sound quality like that since i wasnt aware of them
Nostalgia aside, the tracks being different and most likely the raw original source files is the best outcome. In what other occasion we would have access to those? I will gladly take this route of them releasing those versions.
My JP friends and myself thought we were going mad when we heard the Wii Channel music being werid and off, an had the exact same thought as this. Thank you for putting this together, and helping us feel not insane.
I really hope we get a desktop client. I actually quite like the fact we are getting more value for our subscription. It's not something I'd pay for on its own, however because I already subscribe to Nintendo online it's definitely something I'm going to get some good use out of.
This might be what gets me to subscribe to NSO again.
When I was asking for Nintendo to release soundtracks this app isn’t what I had in mind. I’d rather just buy specific soundtracks and not need to get the garbage online service just for the music. I can’t be the only one who pessimistically thinks this only exists to give Nintendo more leverage over people who post soundtracks to youtube
Nintendo music is very revolutionary for that repeat for __ minutes at certain looping pointa idea. It's very immersion breaking to hear a song fade out before repeating at the start again if you want to repeat. I would probably actually use it if they added more of the songs i actually like.
They sound much higher quality, it was immediately noticeable. It's like the tracks aren't as compressed anymore. It's clear, crisp and exactly what I've been wanting from Nintendo.
My biggest problem with the app is the extreme cherry picking they have done on what game tracks are on the app. I don’t need or expect them to have added everything on day one, but at the same time, they have to have all the audio files stored somewhere, so I’ll still be using RUclips rips for most of the Nintendo game soundtracks
Back in the day I experienced the same thing with games that had official soundtracks released on CD. The Nights into Dreams soundtrack CD used different samples for each instrument which made the tracks as a whole sound different. Most likely the CD represented what the composer actually wanted because the console had limited memory space to store each instrument sample. Either way it's interesting that Nintendo took the time to change the samples. Though it would have been more ideal if they offered both versions in the app whenever they did, just as an extra for the purists out there.
All the tracks are using the same stems from the original songs. They’re mixed to sound more clean and crisp for modern speakers and earphones
yep they've been mixed for stereo on the app while the wii is actually mixed in Dolby Pro Logic II, made to be decoded by a surround receiver. If you listen to your wii and wii games through any kind of stereo speakers system you're not actually listening to it accurately
@@delarageaz Pro Logic II isn't a mixing standard. It's software that takes normal stereo audio and uses an algorithm to spread the image out to the speakers behind you. Imagine a piece of paper; while flat, that would be your stereo image, all the sound wrapped from left to right and everything in between. Pro Logic, Dolby Headphone, DTS Neo, they use their software to essentially roll that piece of paper into a circle. Same paper, same stereo signal, just "wrapped" around you.
@ yep but as audio engineers when we know that it's likely that the device we mix the music for will process the audio like that, well we will mix into a decoder instead of mixing in standards stereo. So the songs are still likely optimized to be played that way.
It’s also important to remember that when played in-game, the music has to share space with sound effects and whatnot, which places so constraints on how it can be played.
It is believed that the music Nintendo has always released sounds with that reverberation and is slightly different from what we can hear in the games, as it seems Nintendo thinks that the music heard in the games is of lower quality than what they want to release. The same applies to the soundtrack of Super Mario 64 when we compare the CD version with the one that can be heard in the game.
Twilight Princess HD soundtrack on CD also has some extra reverb applied compared to the in-game files. And I think it sounds better than the in-game files as a result.
Just I really hope they’ll release F-Zero GX’s cutscene music on the service.
I really hope they add the soundtrack overall
this is super neat, that they're re-recording all of the sequenced songs. i think the best way to go about this is to have two versions of the songs, game rips and these new re-recordings
its all ost album music, a good example is splatoon 3's opening, the "dun dun dudu-dun dun dudu-dun dun dudu-" should be on loop after the main riff, but they made it louder and more intense at the end to give the song a proper ending
I know for older games when releasing the soundtrack on CD Nintendo wouldn't just record the game audio but remastered it specifically for the soundtrack. I'd bet when making this app they grabbed the audio they once released on CD instead of grabbing in-game audio. The differences you're hearing might be because of this.
I think the reason is because it's not that easy to work with sequences outside of the games they're in. As someone who likes to rip sequenced music from various games, they're pretty hard to make sound exactly the same
These tracks appear to not be direct game rips, but are dumped from other sources. The fire temple theme has the same problem as the original CD release where the second half is cut entirely. Since these are the highest quality versions from a technical standpoint, it makes sense that these versions get used. They might go back in later to fix some of the issues this process introduces, but I won't get my hopes up.
I really hope they add an option to switch between different versions of songs, like how there are different versions of madrid Drive for the normal track, the museum, and the football stadium, but you can only listen to the normal version in the app (the gonna need to add something like this when they add the sword/shield ost bc of the gym leader theme)
I remember opening the shop on the dsi for the first time while wearing headphones, and there was just a whole layer to the music that you just couldn't hear over the speakers
Only way they can make me consider getting this music app is if they released the whole Smash Bros Ultimate completely decompressed and with the composer's original quality intent.
Galeem and Dharkon themes, Id Purpose and many others sound quite lacking with the compromises they did to make the soundtrack fit on the game card, this Music App is the perfect chance to have them with their true original quality.
And Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 music please.
Interesting video! I had listened to the everybody votes channel menu theme and it was definitely different from what I remembered but I thought that it just had been a while since I heard it. Hearing them side by side and they're definitely different! Honestly, just for listening to while commuting I don't mind the extra reverb, but it is unfortunate for archival purposes. Like you said, I really appreciate Nintendo giving this app to us but I don't think it's worth it to subscribe to NSO just for this. Still super happy with the app! I hope more music gets added soon.
I’m actually loving this app, I just really hope they put most of the N64/GameCube/Wii library!
The first thing I did before watching the video was double check if this was the same channel that inspected Nintendo music a few months earlier. Glad that it is, and I am now subscribed so I don't forget next time. Lol
As a (new) music producer, it sounds to me that they're trying to upscale the song, or they're remixing thr song to suit todays consumer audience.
well the Wii's original soundtrack is actually meant to be listened to in 5.1 Surround, they've converted it down to stereo for the app and it's likely that it's actually more accurate in the app compared to the down to stereo version you're listening to on your wii (or emulator) without a Dolby processor
The songs sound awesome, and the app is slick.
Same goes for Stickerbush Symphony that they recently released. It's very.... different
Ok but you know what does have an issue? Most games. "320 kbps" is not 320 kbps in a way. For example, Mario Kart 8's (NON BCP) songs are still capped at 32 kHz (as you can tell via spectrogram) despite the source material being much higher quality (as we can tell because most of these games actually have OST releases). I was really hoping that the Nintendo app SPECIFICALLY FOR MUSIC would have only the highest quality available because there's no other legal source. It's worth noting that the Wiis music files from the console is capped at 32000 Hz and the Nintendo Music versions are not - they go to a full 44100 Hz which is probably also part of why it sounds a little off.
More MK8 specific notes: some if not all of the BCP songs were actually given different mastering, and I think it's actually an improvement. Actually, Mario Kart 8 is just a weird scenario in general because in the game about 1 minute of Super Bell Subway's main theme is cut compared to the OST, but that OST segment is also present here - so clearly it isn't a direct rip from the game files but it's also still just as compressed? This is really sad.
Wait what?
The MK8 Songs from Nintendo Music are 32kHz??
For real???
Did you check this yourself? Are there discussions about this, if yes: where?
If that is true im beyond dissapointed.
@@Jonas-tc8qt i wonder if it actually affects your listening experience or you're just disappointed it isn't the highest avaliable quality
@@Jonas-tc8qt I did yes. Also, I might've just thought of a legitimate reason why they cannot just use the OST versions. Each of the tracks has variations, and for soundtracks like this which has multiple tracks for a song, the OST might not have those parts separated. One specific case of that for MK8DX is Electrodome: the OST song has a crossfade between the two versions whereas the game has the full intro and loop - which is what they hosted on the app. Dang, this is actually really complicated but I still wish they had put the originals before compression.
I guess I'm just gonna keep my expectations low and hope for the best we get low sample rate stuff at a higher one for the first time
@@squiddu I didnt do ABX an that yet, and I didnt listen to the music on my good equipment yet.
I'll See if it affects my listening. But for an music app, i think we can expect more.
Nintendo actually doing something that makes sense and is to some extent convenient
"cheaper than youtube" is assuming people aren't either dealing with ads or using ad blockers.
RUclips compression is a bitch, though.
The thing I find interesting is that games with DLC like Breath Of The Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Pokémon ScarVi have the songs from their DLCs present in Nintendo Music - except for the songs in the Happy Home Paradise DLC for New Horizons.
I thought that it might’ve been different but I absolutely paid no mind to it since I think the reverb and the different instrumentals sound very nice, makes it feel updated almost.
So, from an audio engineer standpoint, I feel like they basically made the tracks louder. The thing is that when you try to put music louder you have to compress the highest levels of the sound so the lower ones get louder (which is why there's more reverb). According to a comment by @samcandles, apparently they come from the 2008 CD version, which makes sense considering loudness wars (which is making the song as loud as possible, by compressing it) were at its peak at 2008. So, I think that's why there's more reverb.
And to clarify, audio loudness compression is different to audio quality compression. The first one, is just reducing the peaks of the audio to make the lows louder while quality compression is making the sound quality to sound less clear and the thing is that when you reduce quality, you reduce file size, which is very important when you have limited space.
Great video!! I didn't know about the sequenced music inaccuracies at all, so I will keep this in mind while using the app
and you made points about choosing spotify and youtube premium over nintendo music lol yearly or monthly Nintendo is actually more affordable!
I think I may prefer the extra reverb the Wii music has in the app, feels more like… the Wii.
Now there is one song I’ve noted that has something crucial missing in its rip.
The marching in breath of the wild’s hyrule castle theme.
It loses something special without them
It's a wasted opportunity that they don't give lossless quality. But I guess almost anyone (except me) wouldn't notice.
I am a musician and I can't tell the difference between 320 and lossless.
nintendo on bandcamp when
If you listen to the song "Voter Data", at the beginning, you can hear Mii footsteps. And also for the song "Suggest a Question", you can hear a sound effect.
*sound of WII disk being inserted* oh yeah now THERE'S the song I remember from my childhood.
Incredible video, please continue to make more
The loops and the ammount of data used it sooo cool though! You get hours of music for so little data!
Iirc, older Nintendo consoles had lower sampling rate, so low pass filter had to be applied to avoid aliasing. That cut higher frequencies (evident in clap sound) and probably had effect on reverbs. It might be interesting to play with the Nintendo Music fules to see, if lowering the quality is going to make the same effect.
I realised that many songs sound like they were remade
So, Nintendo actually put effort in the app, but slightly
an example is the Hyrule Castle theme from BOTW, instead of marching they have a normal drumset
@@LetThereBeLight-26 another one comes from Save Theme Tomodachi Collection. It sounds so compressed but that's because the other instruments aside from the lead melody were toned down on intensity for some reason
Theory: On the Wii, they optimized the mixing for built in TV speakers. But for a dedicated music app, they could go back and optimize it for headphones based listening.
Also the Wii used a lot of Live MIDI stuff, and the reverb is an effect, rather than a prebaked render, hence the differences.
Nintendo had previously done this on RUclips when they have uploaded the Twilight Princess Hyrule Field theme and Midna's Lament. They are much higher quality than the music files in the game.
This is not a mixing problem nor is it an inaccuracy. This is simply us being exposed to the compressed version of music first, because of the hardware limitations.
This is the problem, people prefer the altered versions they hear all the time. These are probably actually the "real" versions, but we never heard them, so they sound wrong