It kind of seemed like he was just offering up that information to gain trust and keep the conversation going which is common in sales. That’s something I do sometimes to avoid silences
What I love about this scene is how Don dismisses Faye (why do people have the need to talk) when she says “people will say anything to an interested stranger” and then immediately starts talking about his personal life. His character was always full of hypocrisy. Brilliant.
What I love about this scene was that it was created with Filmora Free Plan. Truly a groundbreaking decision by Weiner & Co and one of the greatest moments in television history.
the 'signs' i identified are not so direct in regards to her expressing something but rather in him asserting dominance, or strong male presence, and those are: his noisy entrance that scared her a bit and the fact that he does not ask if she wants to drink saki with him but rather just pours her drink and hands it over
It wasn't really flirting. Just two people having a conversation. If there was flirting it was so subtle as to not even worry about. True flirting is obvious.
@@mrsozekaiser9299 Also interesting the way he completely ignores her comment at 0:42. A way of making people try harder to say something of value around him.
It's a shame he fell for Megan's seductive qualities. I think Faye truly loved him in a mature way hence why she was legitimately sad when they broke up.
I think the Megan we saw in Season 4 wasn't the real Megan. She was an opportunist and knew how to manipulate people to get what she wanted. Once that honeymoon phase ended with Don that relationship was over fast.
@@N4divers typical. Blaming the woman for the failed marriage. It was over when she decided to follow her dreams and be an actress. Don decided to fool around behind her back
Faye Miller represents what Don could never have, happiness and contentment, reveling in the quiet moments of love that Don could never comprehend but always wanted
@@kb4903 it was nothing to do with intelligence. Betty and Megan were fairly smart, and so were most of the women Don was with through the show. The key difference is that Faye was the only one who had a real read on him. She could see through his tough exterior and see the flawed, tortured soul within whenever she wanted to, and even worse for Don, she knew how to truly help him if they got together.
@@vin8754 betty and Megan represented the perfect trophy wife. Pretty but not much depth. Ideal versions of women for 1950s but more about image that he promotes in his work rather than what he needed. That’s why he ended up resenting them both.
What a really nice and normal conversation he had with her. They actually communicated like two adults and when it was done you knew she had touched him inside. I know Mad Men was fiction but I’ve always found myself caring about the characters because they weren’t one dimensional. It’s really too bad Don missed out on Faye.
It's so interesting how willing Don is to unload to strangers (Faye, Dennis from the hospital, PFC Dinkins, etc.) when he keeps such big secrets from the important people in his life. As Faye observes later, he really does "only like the beginnings of things".
To most men, Faye is just another gorgeous woman who throws herself at him. Poor Don! He can't make up his mind which one is the one! But they all are.
Yeah, and a lot of people are like this. Strangers who don't come in judgmentally against you and you are likely to never see them again. They feel safe for a lot of people.
@@Whoopsydayzee the only thing likeable about Don is the image he projects, which doesn't correspond to his inability to love, or to really care for people, or to be as self-assured as tries to portray. People in the show may not know he's a well of mommy issues and insecurity, a black hole of neediness, but people watching -- you --- know that. It's understandable if people don't see him as a likeable person. If people choose to see him as he wants to be seen, he's played a trick on them.
"damn im a bad father" Sort of. He's saying that but also saying "..but I'm trying to figure out how to be a better. Do you have any suggestions?" Recognizing you are not good at something and telling people you are learning how to be better is very relatable in conversations.
Flirting is the wrong word to describe it. It's about self disclosure on both sides. A deeper connection is made and then a subtle invitation to dinner or at least an interest in her. Draper isn't needy or clingy eg "fake dinner plans with your fake husband"? It borders on sarcasm. He puts out his interest. It lets her know he is available.
This reminds me of when Pete met Megan's father. He asked him what Pete did and in an effort to prove his worth, Pete buttered him, and he saw his value. Here Don and Faye talk about Faye's job and Don doubts her value only for him to do exactly what she says he will, and reveal everything to someone he barely knows.
This relationship always felt awkward to me. It never clicked. Faye was so healthy and independent and didn’t need Don to survive, and he knew it. He could never bring himself to love her.
Megan actually likes children whereas Faye doesn’t. Maybe that’s an important trait to have for an invested relationship for Don and why he chose her over Faye. Remember when she got emotional over Sally and having to care for her?
Im not sexist against men, seems like he wanted to brag about women allowing him to have intercourse atleast 3 times, kind of desperate for a man of his outer confidence. Goes to show, if the right woman is in front of you, you may melt down your inner confidence walls just enough to mention kids to her (even experts have a few off days sometimes). Men+women have to dance together. Thats life.
Don was an idiot, let's be real. The one thing Megan had over Faye is she was willing to be a mother. She was at a point in her life where she wasn't sure of what she was going to do next and she came in as the perfect girl for Don before both him and the audience could really learn who she was. He got too rapped up in the honeymoon.
The one who doesn’t like children... She’s confident, beautiful and successful, yes. But she doesn’t have the traits of a mother and therefore wasn’t the best fit for Don’s needs
1:15 -1:25 is what this scene was about. Any element of flirting from either of them was just a distraction. Draper proved her point by opening up during the second half of the discussion, she was just playing along so he would.
I feel like People that say Faye was Don’s chance at happiness didn’t really get his character or the show he would’ve lost interest in her especially since she didn’t like kids and was very career focused like she said “you only like the beginning of things”.
Remember he was dating that young blond...Remember at their date she was like are you seeing anyone..and don't says no..then the next episode he asks Faye on a date..
Exactly, this is what I’ve been thinking, everyone sees Faye as a pretty, confident and intelligent woman, but she doesn’t like kids and that’s a very important trait for a lot of people, particularly Women.
No one lists their kids in reverse order like that. It should be 10, 7, 1.5. Maybe it speaks to how he takes people for granted the longer they are in his life? (Betty, Sally, etc) The opposite of the "what is happiness" speech.
Ironically that was a very mild accent compared to how new yorkers actually talked back then. Historic accents/dialect was something they did quite poorly in Mad Men, most of the characters use a 2000s general american accent with 60s dialogue pasted on top. Pete is a great example of this. I guess they did it that way to make the characters more relatable to a modern audience.
@@lordracula2461 are you kidding? pete is one of the ones who speaks with a very blue blood north eastern accent. he does it very well. the other person who does it well is joan. those two sound period. the others. they sound 2000s.
@@paullim1933 You can watch old newsreels or interviews of the boston brahmins for that upper class accent you're talking about, the actor who played Pete did a poor job of mimicking it. They should've all been coached to use a mixture of NYC (regional) accent + transatlantic (prestige) accent as would've been used during the period among the white collar middle/upper class in NYC. Nowadays people in the U.S/UK speak with a mixture of the accent in education/media with their own regional accent, same as back in those days but it's even more pronounced now. Key point is non-rhoticity as it is in most english accents today ie. pronouncing "er" endings like "uhh" like in "water"
I didn't feel the love between him and Faye at all, especially from his side. He was attracted to her, yes, but not love. How can she be his chance at happiness if he didn't love her. Yes she was a great woman, independent and put together, but she lacked a gentleness and softness that prevented her from getting into Don's heart like Megan did.
When I see them speak, it reminds me of a conversation that could be between a therapist and their client. I wouldn't be surprised if Matthew Weiner had been influenced during his time on the Sopranos.
I agree it's mostly just talking but there is a point where says she wears the wedding ring even though she isn't married, just as a stop sign. But she did tell Don about it. He says this, she doesn't reply, he's like HMMMmmmmmm and pours another drink
@@vlader4273 well that an invitation from her...but Don was nonchalant about it...Don was honestly curious about why she told him. He knows from her answer that she gave the sign but he didnt act on it.
What does Dr Miller mean by 'stop sign' with a fake wedding and engagement ring? Is it to stop men pursuing her or to avoid conversations about why she's single?
That wasn't flirting, it was genuine communication between two adults, neither of whom seem to have ulterior motives, at least not in this scene. Not being able to tell the difference is an incel thing, imo.
they should have kept her in the show, shes SO much better than megan (who i hated and wished they would write her off). plus she's 10x hotter in looks and personality/ambition than megan. faye's the one love interest i think could have 'fixed' him if given a chance. bro probably didnt want to be fixed tho
"Why does everybody need to talk about everything?"
*proceeds to bare his soul*
Think thats what the scenes about, she shows interest in people which makes them instinctively open up
It kind of seemed like he was just offering up that information to gain trust and keep the conversation going which is common in sales. That’s something I do sometimes to avoid silences
These "proceed" jokes are cringe
@@ecstacy2921 ok?
I don’t think it’s a contradiction. I think she convinces him.
What I love about this scene is how Don dismisses Faye (why do people have the need to talk) when she says “people will say anything to an interested stranger” and then immediately starts talking about his personal life. His character was always full of hypocrisy. Brilliant.
I don’t think it’s hypocrisy. She convinced him. That’s why she’s great.
She asked, he answered. He didn't just start talking about personal life + if you want to score with someone you gotta talk about something.
This is a testament of how good she is, not how hypocritical he is. Did you ever see him open up like this to anyone at work, unless very drunk?
What I love about this scene was that it was created with Filmora Free Plan. Truly a groundbreaking decision by Weiner & Co and one of the greatest moments in television history.
Faye was his real shot at a happy, stable relationship.
I think he just wanted a brunette
@@khurramqasir6815 Facts lol
Rachel Menken was
Megan was
@@ortzomr125 he had his shot with megan lmao
If this is flirting, I have missed soooooo many signs over the years.
the 'signs' i identified are not so direct in regards to her expressing something but rather in him asserting dominance, or strong male presence, and those are: his noisy entrance that scared her a bit and the fact that he does not ask if she wants to drink saki with him but rather just pours her drink and hands it over
@@mrsozekaiser9299 and if you notice when she said..you scared me..he didn't even say sorry he just looked at her..and changed the subject
Lol me too 😂
It wasn't really flirting. Just two people having a conversation. If there was flirting it was so subtle as to not even worry about. True flirting is obvious.
@@mrsozekaiser9299 Also interesting the way he completely ignores her comment at 0:42. A way of making people try harder to say something of value around him.
It's a shame he fell for Megan's seductive qualities. I think Faye truly loved him in a mature way hence why she was legitimately sad when they broke up.
Yeah but Faye was terrible with Children…and Don has 3z
@@emmaolivas4005 She would have gotten better
I think the Megan we saw in Season 4 wasn't the real Megan. She was an opportunist and knew how to manipulate people to get what she wanted. Once that honeymoon phase ended with Don that relationship was over fast.
@@N4divers typical. Blaming the woman for the failed marriage. It was over when she decided to follow her dreams and be an actress. Don decided to fool around behind her back
@@N4divers you can’t into a relationship and have the mindset that you can “fix” someone or “make them better”
The way he broke up with Faye showed how dysfunctional and toxic Don really is.
Faye Miller represents what Don could never have, happiness and contentment, reveling in the quiet moments of love that Don could never comprehend but always wanted
As you say Usul, but shouldn’t we be getting back to the sietch?
He was afraid I think. He could be vulnerable with her and she would put him in his place. She was smarter than him and he never had that before.
@@kb4903 it was nothing to do with intelligence. Betty and Megan were fairly smart, and so were most of the women Don was with through the show. The key difference is that Faye was the only one who had a real read on him. She could see through his tough exterior and see the flawed, tortured soul within whenever she wanted to, and even worse for Don, she knew how to truly help him if they got together.
@@vin8754 betty and Megan represented the perfect trophy wife. Pretty but not much depth. Ideal versions of women for 1950s but more about image that he promotes in his work rather than what he needed. That’s why he ended up resenting them both.
What a really nice and normal conversation he had with her. They actually communicated like two adults and when it was done you knew she had touched him inside. I know Mad Men was fiction but I’ve always found myself caring about the characters because they weren’t one dimensional. It’s really too bad Don missed out on Faye.
Suppose it was, though she isn’t one who really likes children which perhaps is the reason why Don didn’t choose her in the end.
He didn't miss out, he passed on Faye
It's so interesting how willing Don is to unload to strangers (Faye, Dennis from the hospital, PFC Dinkins, etc.) when he keeps such big secrets from the important people in his life. As Faye observes later, he really does "only like the beginnings of things".
To most men, Faye is just another gorgeous woman who throws herself at him. Poor Don! He can't make up his mind which one is the one! But they all are.
Because he's living a lie. He turned away his own half brother, and he killed himself. It's a defence mechanism
Everybody is more willing to reveal big secrets about themselves to strangers rather than important people in their life.
Yeah, and a lot of people are like this. Strangers who don't come in judgmentally against you and you are likely to never see them again. They feel safe for a lot of people.
me when i flirt. "damn im a bad father and my ex wife is a hag"
Your problem is you don't look like Don
@@Whoopsydayzee the only thing likeable about Don is the image he projects, which doesn't correspond to his inability to love, or to really care for people, or to be as self-assured as tries to portray. People in the show may not know he's a well of mommy issues and insecurity, a black hole of neediness, but people watching -- you --- know that. It's understandable if people don't see him as a likeable person. If people choose to see him as he wants to be seen, he's played a trick on them.
@@doloresmary13 But the thing is that you know he's a good man at heart and you root for him because you want to see that finally come out.
@@Whoopsydayzee Actually true. Just be good looking and watch how "good" you become at flirting.
"damn im a bad father"
Sort of. He's saying that but also saying "..but I'm trying to figure out how to be a better. Do you have any suggestions?" Recognizing you are not good at something and telling people you are learning how to be better is very relatable in conversations.
“Fake dinner plans with your fake husband?” - rare joke from Don.
More like last ditch attempt to get laid.
Loving him is worst way to get to him.
Flirting is the wrong word to describe it. It's about self disclosure on both sides. A deeper connection is made and then a subtle invitation to dinner or at least an interest in her. Draper isn't needy or clingy eg "fake dinner plans with your fake husband"? It borders on sarcasm. He puts out his interest. It lets her know he is available.
Exactly. This was more of an honest conversation. As honest as you'll get from Draper anyway. True flirting is very obvious.
>Enters room alone with girl
>Suddenly puts on a playful demeanor and starts pouring drinks
This reminds me of when Pete met Megan's father. He asked him what Pete did and in an effort to prove his worth, Pete buttered him, and he saw his value. Here Don and Faye talk about Faye's job and Don doubts her value only for him to do exactly what she says he will, and reveal everything to someone he barely knows.
This relationship always felt awkward to me. It never clicked. Faye was so healthy and independent and didn’t need Don to survive, and he knew it. He could never bring himself to love her.
Rachel and then Faye. You had to shots at happiness Don and you missed them both. Especially Faye, choosing Megan over her.
The women weren’t the problem. He was.
@@ncxbox4379 we all know that, it’s the one of the main points of the series.
The thing is, he doesn’t really choose anybody but himself.
Megan actually likes children whereas Faye doesn’t. Maybe that’s an important trait to have for an invested relationship for Don and why he chose her over Faye. Remember when she got emotional over Sally and having to care for her?
@@laneanderson9433 Don likes children? The same father that was never present in his own son and daughter's life?
As a New England man I am very happy to see a vintage box of Dunkin Doughnuts over Don’s shoulder
I miss being in new england
He should've stayed with Faye. She'd've been a true PARTNER. He blew it.
On my second date with Faye I would say,
"Honey, do you want marble or granite countertops in the kitchen"?
When you realise she played Mrs wheeler in stranger things
Wait....really? Woah 👀
She's shown up in a lot of different things. A real chameleon. A real HOT chameleon.
Heh, Don asks why people need to talk about everything and then proceeds to tell Faye personal details about his kids and his relationship with them
Im not sexist against men, seems like he wanted to brag about women allowing him to have intercourse atleast 3 times, kind of desperate for a man of his outer confidence. Goes to show, if the right woman is in front of you, you may melt down your inner confidence walls just enough to mention kids to her (even experts have a few off days sometimes). Men+women have to dance together. Thats life.
@@stevendalloesingh1214 felling her about how he can’t connect with his children does not seem like bragging
He hates any conversation that’s not about him
Faye was his best girl. Useless Megan ruined what could've been great.
I agree I like Faye, Teacher, Mrs. Macan
Useless, vain Don Draper ruined his own self.
Rachel was the one.
Don was an idiot, let's be real. The one thing Megan had over Faye is she was willing to be a mother. She was at a point in her life where she wasn't sure of what she was going to do next and she came in as the perfect girl for Don before both him and the audience could really learn who she was. He got too rapped up in the honeymoon.
All the women in dons live were amazing and he was a ridiculous fool
I am about to watch this series for the fourth time.
Same!!!!!! It's the best! What was your fav episode?
@@kat35lulu88 I can’t pick a favorite. I just started my 6th watch BTW.😁
That so accurate about dropping them off then missing them
probably has to do with him not having the pressure anymore of coming up with ways to entertain kids that resent him.
Intimacy mistaken for flirting.
She was the one.
The one who doesn’t like children... She’s confident, beautiful and successful, yes. But she doesn’t have the traits of a mother and therefore wasn’t the best fit for Don’s needs
@@laneanderson9433 who fucking cares whats a fit for him. hes obviously meant to be alone and sad
Just curious, what was this created with?
LOL
I don't see them enough. And when I do I don't know what to do. And when I drop them off I feel relieved..And then I miss them.
beginning of things
1:15 -1:25 is what this scene was about. Any element of flirting from either of them was just a distraction. Draper proved her point by opening up during the second half of the discussion, she was just playing along so he would.
Exactly! She played him like a banjo
Man he totally fucked this up
Don fumbled the bag with her big time
Does anyone know what software was used to create this clip?
When they are discussing her ring, he puts his left hand in his pocket to hide his ring finger..nicely done.
Why?
@@SamHusseinibecause he wants to blast her!
I feel like People that say Faye was Don’s chance at happiness didn’t really get his character or the show he would’ve lost interest in her especially since she didn’t like kids and was very career focused like she said “you only like the beginning of things”.
Remember he was dating that young blond...Remember at their date she was like are you seeing anyone..and don't says no..then the next episode he asks Faye on a date..
Exactly, this is what I’ve been thinking, everyone sees Faye as a pretty, confident and intelligent woman, but she doesn’t like kids and that’s a very important trait for a lot of people, particularly Women.
"Fake dinner plans with your fake husband" that's when it became obvious it was a flirtation.
legend says Don Draper is still leaning on that fridge, waiting for Faye to come back.
Lol, the way Don says “Sake” is so funny
To be fair, there were far fewer weeaboos back then than there are now.
@@SergeantExtreme Bert Cooper, the resident weeaboo, would be furious.
Faye always felt so displaced for me, like she's from a modern day show not from the 60's
She was a foreshadow.
I felt exactly the same
If you love her and she knows it, she'll be fine. -- Pretty damn good advice.
If there's a way to watch this clip without the huge, stupid watermark, lemme know.
Buy it on DVD
It is hard to find Mad Men clips in widescreen and 720+ res, but the huge banner across the screen really sucks.
There should be a compilation video about all of Don's women entitled "Mr Draper's boos"
Faye was one of the few Mad Men characters that never really convinced me as 3D flesh and blood human being
1:53 "But you told me". Don knows what's up.
I think Abed did it better.
Out of all the women entangled with Don, Faye was always my favourite.
Megan was a bad choice.
She was a bad choice, but Don needed a wake-up call.
she hit the STOP sign.. but a determined male will circle back..
Pun intended, Don really screwed her over
No one lists their kids in reverse order like that. It should be 10, 7, 1.5.
Maybe it speaks to how he takes people for granted the longer they are in his life? (Betty, Sally, etc)
The opposite of the "what is happiness" speech.
"I only like the beginnings of things."
1:24 Tik Tok in a nutshell.
Ugghh he should have chose her
He should have been with her , she was the best one
1:58 I walk into a laht of awffices
She's been suppressing a Brooklyn accent the whole time. The things you pick up on when you rewatch
Ironically that was a very mild accent compared to how new yorkers actually talked back then. Historic accents/dialect was something they did quite poorly in Mad Men, most of the characters use a 2000s general american accent with 60s dialogue pasted on top. Pete is a great example of this. I guess they did it that way to make the characters more relatable to a modern audience.
@@lordracula2461 are you kidding? pete is one of the ones who speaks with a very blue blood north eastern accent. he does it very well. the other person who does it well is joan. those two sound period. the others. they sound 2000s.
@@paullim1933 You can watch old newsreels or interviews of the boston brahmins for that upper class accent you're talking about, the actor who played Pete did a poor job of mimicking it. They should've all been coached to use a mixture of NYC (regional) accent + transatlantic (prestige) accent as would've been used during the period among the white collar middle/upper class in NYC.
Nowadays people in the U.S/UK speak with a mixture of the accent in education/media with their own regional accent, same as back in those days but it's even more pronounced now.
Key point is non-rhoticity as it is in most english accents today ie. pronouncing "er" endings like "uhh" like in "water"
I didn't feel the love between him and Faye at all, especially from his side. He was attracted to her, yes, but not love. How can she be his chance at happiness if he didn't love her. Yes she was a great woman, independent and put together, but she lacked a gentleness and softness that prevented her from getting into Don's heart like Megan did.
They are looks good together, better than the other ladies
Mrs wheeler
When I see them speak, it reminds me of a conversation that could be between a therapist and their client. I wouldn't be surprised if Matthew Weiner had been influenced during his time on the Sopranos.
Down vote for the massive banner across half the screen.
There wasn't much flirting there that I could see
It was delicate, but potent.
she was his chance of breaking the pattern of the king of relationship that he had up until that point
This is not flirting...this is just a normal conversation.
The way she puts on her shoe and walks out is so hot.
i would barely call this flirting.
From 3:08 on you know that look he gave her made her tummy tingle 😏
How is that even flirting. They were just talking...
I agree it's mostly just talking but there is a point where says she wears the wedding ring even though she isn't married, just as a stop sign. But she did tell Don about it. He says this, she doesn't reply, he's like HMMMmmmmmm and pours another drink
@@vlader4273 well that an invitation from her...but Don was nonchalant about it...Don was honestly curious about why she told him. He knows from her answer that she gave the sign but he didnt act on it.
Don testing the waters.
I don't know what he was thinking when he gave her up.
Anyone know how this was created?
What does Dr Miller mean by 'stop sign' with a fake wedding and engagement ring? Is it to stop men pursuing her or to avoid conversations about why she's single?
I assumed it was to avoid getting hit on all the time, so she wouldn't get distracted from her work
That wasn't flirting. That was just what Faye said - people like to open up and feel better after they do.
At the end of the scene, Faye has Don bent at the hips like a trapeze artist. 🎪
Like her being married would stop Don....
the greatest of them all
That wasn't flirting, it was genuine communication between two adults, neither of whom seem to have ulterior motives, at least not in this scene. Not being able to tell the difference is an incel thing, imo.
Aren't you supposed to light sake on fire before you drink it?
Only if you're crashing a plane later.
Better when consumed warm/hot
Plot twist: she is his daughter
I wonder if Don hooked up with Dr. Faye Miller afterwards.
Banner advertising thru the film very intrusive
Keep forgetting Don has 2 sons too
I really don't remember this scene...
Didn’t love her as kelli montisanti but she’s great here
Kelli wasn’t really a character.
Faye comes from the business world but she diplomatically calls out the BS - all the booze, etc.
I was so disappointed with what Don did to Faye...So much so that I dropped the show for months.
Product placement for sake?
faye was the ONLY woman who was a match for Don. She was smart, and could roll with the punches. i wish they could have stayed together.
That banner across the screen is a piece of CRAP.
they should have kept her in the show, shes SO much better than megan (who i hated and wished they would write her off). plus she's 10x hotter in looks and personality/ambition than megan. faye's the one love interest i think could have 'fixed' him if given a chance. bro probably didnt want to be fixed tho
that wasn't even flirting
Yet it was.
It was, he’s just a master at it. You just don’t realise it
lib22b it wasn’t. Virgin.
Why? Cuz they werent laughing or touching like obvious 16 year olds? This isn't amateur hour, this is don draper bud.
That was pure flirting.
Looks like its the other way around.
MRS WHEELER???
Dr. Faye was hot
Flirting? Come on
Don's an idiot for choosing Megan over Dr. Faye Miller. This is a great scene tho
Her insane bouncy hair….
Faye wanted to get her teeth wet with the entertaining
This aint Flirting
That was him flirting?
Looked more like a therapy session to me
Saki is rank
Wasn’t Faye based on Dr Joyce Brothers?
No, she was based on Joyce Brothers' sister.
@@johnzaccardi526 I see, Joyce Sister