🔴 Leica Users: It's Not ALL Bad News
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Has Leica lost focus on what is important to Leica camera users? Thankfully other ..
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4:00 You look like you're preparing a UFO invasion of Earth!
The purpose of cameras has changed. A small Leica in the '40s was the only way you could take a pocketable camera. Today, everyone was a pocketable camera with them all the time. Now we use 'real cameras' to take photos that you can't reproduce on a smartphone. Obvously a Barnak Lecia isn't comparible to an iPhone, but if the baseline is an iPhone and then taking a 'real camera' is an event, and most people want a big increase in performance.
Good point Josh, yes tele lenses are nice for a non-phone look
I should have looked through the comments section before repeating what you wrote.
I shot 8x10 exclusively for 15 years, so all this talk of heft and weight is a bit funny to me.
I'm absolutely loving the M11M, it's like having five 8x10 cameras in your pocket.
Leica is cranking out some amazing cameras and lenses. Voigtlander offers great alternatives.
Leica was never a pocket camera company, if you want that, a Ricoh GR III is a good choice, but you're stuck with a 28mm.
But it's not all about pocketability, or portability. It's about being able to make good images consistently. So grab what you like and go out and shoot.
Don't worry about the rest.
Thanks! Leica were pocket cameras in the 1930s, the goal of Oscar Barnack but not in recent years certainly. Great to hear you shoot 8x10. I’ll probably get to that too but currently I’m loving my 4x5 Linhof and others!
It’s all about the right tool for the job. I use the SL system for work, the M for personal / vacations.
Size of camera for commercial work doesn’t even really come into my mind. I want the best quality optics for the clients needs.
Thanks John, yes fair points. I carry a 4x5 now for important images so I hear you. (I guess I appreciate the small Leica related gear so I have more space in my bag for lights/ other cool cameras etc).
My SL3 is still smaller than my old 4x5 set up. My M cameras are still smaller than my Hasselblad set up and 4x5 set up. My 40"x60" prints from my SL3 or M kit look better than 40"x40" prints from the Hasselblad and cleaner than the 40"x50" prints from 4X5 kit with Rodenstock lens. Different cameras for different subjects. I remember shooting a lot of portraits with the Hasselblad and the 4x5. The amount of time required to set up and shoot was long. They are brining back retro lenses with new coatings. Cannot want smaller and then carry a 4x5 kit. I do understand what you are saying and it would be nice, however I will not sacrifice my print quality for a smaller set up. Since I print my own work and I print at 40"x60" a lot. the smaller micro 4/3rds do not hold up. I still have my TL and TL2 because they are just cool. Even with the great lenses for this system they are not on par with the SL3 or even the SL2 when printed.
Thanks! I think SL lenses are some of the best for pure image quality which people like you will see if you print big ( good for you!)(I’m finally doing darkroom prints) The former artist in me love the film and darkroom imperfections. I want a small Leica setup so I can carry my Hassy or 4x5 kit :)
Your take is spot on. For me it's all about compromises. However, vintage, Leica glass is so sharp that my film photos often get mistaken for digital with random people asking for lightroom presets. Thanks for your video.
Haha nice! Love that. Yes older lenses stopped down a little are still top performers!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom nobody wants to stop down any more. Wide-open or bust! 😂
I gravitated from Leica Rangefinder to Olympus micro four thirds for the very reason you discussed in this video. My favorite camera is an Olympus EP5, which has much the same size and heft of rangefinder Leicas. I can, of course, adapt rangefinder lenses, which are my favorites due to their size. Some don't like the sensor size of M43, but it hasn't had any negative effect for me. When Leica introduced their original 35mm camera, lots of people said the negative was too small, but we know how that worked out.
At the time the negative was indeed too small for the quality of the 35 mm film produced and that is why until film technology befitted from the WWII effort (Kodak Tri X among others). Press photographers only moved away from 4x5 and 6x6 after WW II except for some war photographers (easily understandable).
@@BrunoChalifour similarly, as sensor technology improves, the need for larger sensors diminishes.
@@dongummphotography Definitely but we are not quite there yet (but close). Which still asks the question of lens quality (and size), the point in Matt's video here.
Quite a few viewers have said the same actually
To be fair to Leica, the black M11 is the lightest M digital maybe ever. The black model is 542 grams. They added and removed video from the M240 which was a wonderful but fat and heavy camera. I think Leica has responded very well to the competitive forces and suspect a CL2 will be released. They are a much smaller company than Rolex and many or most of their products truly are handmade and it's hard to meet demand. I can't say enough good things about my Q3, M11, M11M and now SL2-S an absolute ISO monster. OK, i admit i am a leica fanboy if that wasn't already plainly obvious!
Actually Leica is going in the right direction with the M11-P. I think on my update cycle will be the M12 if Leica gets it right with an integrated arca mount without adding stupid grips as my favourite M cameras of the past are the M4, the M5, the M8 and M9.
@@Funktrainer Well as I stated the black M11 is the lightest M digital including the M9 which weighs 589 grams. I think the M11 grip is brilliant with not only arca mount but with access to the battery and SD card slot but the USB-C charging port. Feels amazing in the hand. Even the new black Thumbgrip is 50% lighter (approx 16 grams) than the M10 identical in size thumbgrip of the M10 (36 grams!) the M11-P, nothing against it but little changed from the M11. Easily the best M digital is the M11/M11-P. although there will always be a special place in my heart for the M9 and M9M. Wish i could post an example of shooting highlight priority, orange filter and -2/3 EV that I did yesterday on my M11M.. These cameras continue to blow me away and impress me. The M11 is the M I always wanted after Leica adding video to the M240 and reversing course and leading us to the lightest best proportioned digital M yet.. Even my M7 is 632 grams! Look, there are some people who greatly miss their sacred bottom plate. No one is every really happy or satisfied other than in retrospect..Reminds me of real actual life! cheers
@@payperview714 Can't get a black one as my personal preference for Leica M cameras is silver and will always be whereas a Nikon F2 has to be black. So I have to carry the heavy load...
I agree, and rumors a saying the M12 might ever so slightly be smaller than the M11, like the SL3 is now more compact than the SL2. That would make the M12 even more attractive.
Yes Leica did great with the black M11. Give it a few years for the prices to reduce and I’ll certainly be keen to get one for that reason.
I was going to purchase an M11 and decided the value just wasn't there for me at the price of it, plus the many issues that plagued its software. I decided to try the m240. I LOVE that camera...but I had TWO of them fail on me in a row (one was the rangefinder arm that connects to the back of the lens and moves as you twist it. The other kept coming out of VF adjustment). I got fed up with it and went the entire opposite direction. Went and bought a Lumix GX80/85 kit with two lenses for $600 USD new. Camera has been absolutely phenomenal and the L.Monochrome setting looks exactly like the BW profile of my Leica TL2. I've read that Leica helped to create that profile for Lumix so it would make sense of the similar look. I absolutely love Leica cameras and lenses, but I believe they don't even know which direction they're going. I was anti-M43 because I was ignorant and thought the photos would just look like a mobile phone picture from 2004. But I was entirely wrong. Now that I've enjoyed the Lumix m43 system for a literal fraction of the cost for a Leica, I'm not sure they'll ever get me back as a customer. Small, rangefinder-ish, and FUN to use...
I have and had 4 M11's (variants) and other than an occasional minor glitch they have been great. Not suggesting your issues with it are minor or not real. That being said, my M8 had the shutter mechanism fail. Leica upgraded and repaired it for free and it was out of warranty. Both my M9's had corrosion on the sensors and were also replaced out of warranty. Finally I had to send m10 in for service twice because it would not startup after long periods of not being used during Covid times. In other word there have always been problems and Leica has stepped up each time to fix them even out of warranty.
Alternatively we can switch to Panasonic like the S1, S1R , s1H or S5 and S5Ii …. These are Leica L mount “ clone cameras “ made in Japan with the alliance of Leica and Panasonic . I sold my Leica SL and buy the S1R , 6 months later the Leica SL2 comes out and for still photography I hardly “ very hard press “ to see the IQ different . More and more every years Panasonic made more cameras that rival to Leica Quality and better in some areas that Leica can’t compete such as video… I’m waiting for the new S1R ii ? Instead buying the SL3 . Soon Panasonic will produce a camera that rival the Leica SL3 .
@@ductritran8637 if you can be happy wit the Lumix menu structure, why not? I personally can't..I just picked up a mint SL2 for $2700, sold it for $2700 days later and got a new in box SL2-S for $2800 and am just in love with this camera..As said if people like Lumix interface, it can't be beat for the money and what it offers.
If you still have any of your M-mount lenses, they work quite well on the Panasonic m4/3 cameras.
Thanks! Yes I have them but I’m a sucker for vintage lenses so ideally need a FF sensor to use them as designed (50=50mm etc)
Hahahaha... 51 comments in the 1st hour. Hope Leica's marketing department is paying attention. Looks like you struck a nerve ! Hope you're well, Matt. Cheers !
Also the fact that it's coming from someone who's personal brand is Leica focused and tbh is one of the biggest Leica resources on RUclips. If he is making a statement, Leica is definitely listening
There is nowadays no other department i leica, then marketing. And they are paying attention About nothing.
Erwin knew as far back as in 2019:
“For more than 35 years I have been intimately involved in the Leica world, encompassing the history of the company, the analysis of the products and the use of the products, all under the umbrella concept of the Leica World.
I have experienced and discussed in detail with relevant persons in Wetzlar (old), Solms and Wetzlar (again, new) the digital turn and how the company evolved and changed while adopting the digitalization of the photographic process and the changing world of the internet based photography. The most recent event is the evolution from a manufacturing company to a software-based company. While a commercial success, this change of heart has accomplished a, perhaps not intended, impact: the soul of Leica products has been eradicated. A renewed interest in classical products is the result. The SL and Q are currently the hopeful products for the future. The ghosts of Huawei and Panasonic can be seen all over the campus and while the M-system is still being promoted as the true heir of the Leica lineage, it is now sidelined. Once upon a time, Leica followed its own path, guided by gifted and pioneering engineers and keen marketeers. Nowadays its products are as mainstream as every other camera manufacture.
The company has sketched a future and follows a path that I am no longer willing to go.”
Thanks George, I’m still replying I got so many comments. Split opinions but I hit a nerve it seems!
Most of us here don’t remember that when the M-series was introduced there were a segment of Leica photographers that felt the company had lost its way, if just because of the size increase. It hasn’t totally happened, but with the prices of used M-series cameras, the old L39/LTM mount with a bargain priced Barnack camera body paired with a new L39/LTM lens is an attractive option.
100% ..and most are smoother than M
Bodies too!
Hi Matt, I generally love your videos. Having said that, comparing the original leica with a feature packed modern digital is in my view beside the point. If I compare my M6 with my M11 the M11 is lighter. The Leica Rangefinders still have the smallest form factor for a full frame camera. Even the SL, when compared to a Nikon Z series is smaller. As to Leica losing its way: They continue to innovate and provide top technology.
Thanks! Yes fair point. As you know I love the early Leicas for their size and the CL was about the same (and the M11 black is light) so they can do it. I support them all the way I it wad just my wish for those that love the classic size of Leica
Its not just cametas and lenses that have grown fat and heavy but also cars. A Mini is now the size of a medium/large family car of the 80s, a VW Polo is bigger, fatter and heavier than a MK IV Golf, and lets not talk about the BMWs, Porsches or Ferraris. They have all grown fat, heavy and ugly. Lets not talk about the latest Leica tne D-Lux 8, or beyter known as a seven year old Lumix LX100 Ii.
All very true.
And people too😅
@@janvirtanen9110cars got better to accommodate fat people.
Fat people got fatter to fit bigger cars.
Re-peat…
Yes! I really dislike how Porsche and Ferrari have gotten so big. I used to like Porsche / Ferrari because they seemed nimble/agile - fun to drive.
Now they just seem nice to look at on a pedestal/museum, but not for driving.
You beat me to it. Mazda was another one with their mx5/miata, though they managed to go back to their roots with their newest model, which played to their advantage. Hopefully Leica recognises this too.
Agreed. You are 100% correct. Working with a smallish budget I have used a lot of vintage lenses which fall into the small but capable category. I have some old Canons, LTM, and KMZ's, LTM, The CV 40mm f/1.2 is a stovepipe and for that reason I use it little. And I use M bodies, old ones.
James Brown was touted as "The Hardest Working Man in Show Business". You have to be the hardest working man in the photo video business, and very possibly the best. Thanks for another well thought out and well presented video.
I think this was not so much about budget (as I do not think Leica is in the low-budget and cutting-corners (although very small corners for some brand, agreed) business) but about size... and failed to mention the summicron 35.
Thanks Sandy!
The current 35mm Summicrons are much bigger than the lenses shown. I focused on the smallest
I think for the M series they have the right balance with some small lenses and some bigger faster lenses so you get a choice. With SL the size is pretty similar to Sony, Canon & Nikon so there isn’t much pressure to get them smaller.
Agreed. Frankly I do not think the M-series is designed for anything beyond 75 mm. The ideal is the 28-50 mm range, beyond that there are DSLRs and the SL series.
Thanks Greg! Yes the M was what pushed me to Leica originally for a smaller setup so what you say makes sense. I then discovered the Leica iii and can’t unsee their awesome size haha
I think the issue overall is Leica is losing its customers. The market Competition is intense, especially in the megapixel wars. Everyone seems just wanting to stick a Sony sensor into the cameras and add their own twist on features. Leica is included.
I don’t think Leica wants to be a boutique brand, they can’t afford to keep their doors open in such scenario. They have already designed their products at certain target premium prices.
I do think if Leica can make a full frame CL in M mount, they may attract some people. A lot of Leica users are older and don’t have very good eye sights for optical rangefinders anymore. I know I would buy one. Or, Leica can make a Q camera with autofocus and with 40 or 50mm lens on it. That should also keep the over size small, with the lens is not removable. Just my two cents.
Simplicity/ pleasure of use and style should be their USP for cameras. People will still pay good money for that. I've used my M lenses for Years on Sony A7Rs, If you know how to set it up it's a killer combination, but Leica could make the who thing much more elegant.
@@angusmackay7281 How come you didn’t use the M bodies over the years?
Look at the numbers in recent years. They have proved Leica's strategy was successful in pulling them out of the red. Now part of it is definitely the cost of the cameras and lenses, agreed, but obviously not losing customers may also account for that, and maybe appealing to a broader audience (with means, which I do not mind as I have bought several Leica Ms used, in pristine condition from such users who keep both Leica and me happy! ;o)
Yes! M12 with EVF for example! Thanks
@@weizhang6979 Like @angusmackay7281, I have used M lenses on Nikon mirrorless cameras. I was always an SLR user, specifically with the split-circle focusing screen, so rangefinders are frustrating for me. And the Nikon Z bodies are less expensive than the Leica M bodies.
Lenses for digital sensors are larger than their older film counterparts because of a physical requirement of the sensors: The incident light has to be closer to perpendicular to the sensor. With film, the angle can be steeper, so the lens can have a simpler design.
Thanks yes great point
I was looking for a lightweight digital Leica setup and was drawn to the CL obviously. My hunt for a too priced used CL continued until I finally decided on a different direction. The problem with the CL is that it’s a dead end ecosystem. There is no plans for a CL2. Leica has abandoned the crop system system. Besides that, the CL in good condition is still around 2K US. And not to mention the high cost of the lenses. I decided to forego the magic of Leica and try the Fuji route. I picked up a Fuji X-E3 and about five lenses for around 1800. I have been extremely happy with this kit. I even bought one of those fancy British camera bags and now have a complete system that fits in a purse sized bag. Being a pilot who loves shooting on the road, this system has brought me some fantastic shots. It’s 24MP which really is plenty and produces great captures when used right. I am still pining for an M10 or M11 one day, more because it’s still fairly small and I want to explore the world of rangefinder cameras. I find that my SL is an amazing camera but a little on the heavy side for travel. I didn’t buy any of the Leica branded L mount lenses or the Panasonic ones. Too heavy. I’m sure they are amazing, especially the Leica L. However the SL works well with adapted manual lenses and I have enjoyed the results when I’ve used it. I carried it all over Berlin one day using a Voigtlander Ultron 35mm F1.7 and the results were fantastic. Would love to pick up some of the lenses you previewed here Matt. Maybe one day I can get a nice M10. But alas, I digress. Great video as usual.
Thanks Pete! Yes the SL is great for everything except travel. M + small lens gives a nice setup and the simplicity is really nice (using the RF etc).
Size over quality is very important for enthusiast photographers. We want to go out with our camera as much as possible. Thank you for this video, I hope Leica and more lens producers listen to your message
Frankly it is the first time I hear that Leica makes fat cameras: compare any M to any other full-frame camera! Same for the the lenses. Which camera manufacturer makes smaller lenses for full-frame cameras than Leica for their M series?!?
@@BrunoChalifour well, other cameras have more features namely ibis and af. The same goes with respective lenses. I’d like a ff camera to be compact and easy to carry
@@erosm4720 Isn't that the case of M camera and M-lenses compared to other ff cameras (with a viewfinder)? One exception being the Sony RX1 ii.
@@BrunoChalifour that’s the point of my comment and the video. Let’s hope the M system won’t get larger
Thanks, me too!
You are right about the weight of modern Leica lenses. I always have second thought in bringing my SL2 for traveling. One vintage lens I like is the relatively inexpensive 35 mm Summaron F2.8 which is quite small but looks good on the M.
yes I love the M lenses on the SL bodies
Hi Matt, I totally agree with you. I like to travelling minimize. Therefore my wishes for the Future is small, Compact, Full-Frame Camera with colour Profiles Like Fuji coupled with intiuative Operation.
Thanks Gino! The S9 looks like there is hope so fingers crossed in the future!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom The S9 has no EVF, what a pitty, otherwise it would be Perfect for Me.
Don’t forget Matt that Leica brought out the Leicaflex SLR cameras in 1964 so the larger Leica is nothing new. Also for those like me who’s eyesight is no longer as good as it was having autofocus on my SL3 is fantastic.
Thanks Tom, yes I have the Leicaflex. Sorry I over simplified by going oldest to newest with the M as a common size comparison. Yes I'm sure many will love the SL3
You put your finger on it when you mentioned the need to resolve high megapixel sensors, Matt. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a moot point. I sold my 24-90 f2.8/4 SL precisely because it was too big and heavy, even though it was a great lens. My walkabout lens now is the Panasonic 20-60 mm f3.5-5.6 which is sharp enough for the 24 Mpx of my SL2-s. It probably isn't good enough for a SL2, though, let alone an SL3, but I don't have either of those. For the SLs, Sigma make a lovely i-series of small, sharp and well built DG DN lenses. Whether they are sharp enough for 47 or 60 Mpx I cannot say. With regard to Leica M lenses, to be fair, they are not huge unless one wants apertures of f1.4 and up.
Thanks yes good points. Yes I couldn’t own that zoom, it’s too big. Agree the Sigma and LUMIX lenses are often a better size and weight. (So good Leica rebadged as few for themselves!)
I think you totally wrong. It is not the question of size with all the different series from Leica. M is differnt use to Q which is different use case to SL. You can choose and pick your sweet spot series!
Strangely you missed the mark completely. No wonder you believe Matt was wrong.
Thanks. I guess I’m
Saying bring the CL line back now they have the FF S9 as a base.
..I use all systems as you probably know
Has over the last 18 months built a Leica M8 kit with the following small lenses; Voigtländer super-wide Heliar 15mm f/4,5 LTM (20mm eq), Voigtländer color-skopar 21mm f/4 (28mm eq), Minolta M-Rokkor 28mm f/2,8 (37mm eq), Voigtländer Nokton classic II 35mm f/1,4 (47mm eq), Industar-61 55mm f/2,8 (73mm eq) and also a Canon 50mm f/1.4 LTM (67mm eq) which is HUGE in comparison to the others. Everything fits in a small bag and are all great fun to use and give great results. I also have a Nikon "full frame" DSLR kit, with HUGE lenses that I use less and less..Thank you for all your advise, inspiration and great down to earth videos!
Great setup. I have many of those nice lenses! Enjoy!
Meaning Leica with its M-series makes smaller bodies and lenses than anyone else. As for M-system compatible lenses from other manufacturers we must acknowledge the fact that they benefit from Leica's sticking to its M-gun, all other manufacturers having failed with time.
It's a bit wry to say Leica has "lost their way" when they've just announced their third straight year of record-setting revenue, and (seriously!) I think the growing size of their lenses is related to their growing success. Like it or not, lenses that aim for absolutely top-tier performance need to be bigger than they used to be: for example, you need a higher element count to minimize aberrations and a larger barrel diameter to avoid "cat's-eye bokeh" and other issues that nobody worried about in the pre-internet era. Meanwhile, Leica has noticed the global economic trend of more and more of the world's wealth passing into the hands of fewer and fewer people, and a big part of their recent success comes from catering to ultra-high-net-worth individuals whose credo is "I'm entitled to the best of everything and I don't have to care about what it costs." For these people, a "good lens" would not be enough; they want to feel confident that they have the "best lens," and if it happens to be humongous that doesn't bother them because they carry it only occasionally. Me? I'll say thank goodness for Cosina/Voigtlander, the feisty Chinese boutique brands, and the global supply chain that makes it possible for any optical designer with an interesting idea to find a contract manufacturer who can build it.
Thanks James, fair point! I guess this was just my wish that they spend some of their big gear profits on small gear too :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Reach into your pocket for the Leitz Phone...
Leitz / Leica today not only produces excellent lenses for the Leica camera system but many other quality optical devices. At some point, they may figure out that customers were quite happy at the 24-36 megapixel level.
Now at 60 MP, the focus seems to have shifted to physically larger, higher-resolving lenses and optical formulas for M-mount lenses.
The point here is if Leica can produce microscopes, rifle scopes, binoculars, rangefinders, and many more small precise accurate optics they should be more than capable of placing this technology in camera lenses.
Consider the optics needed for a Leica rifle scope. High accuracy, high resolving power, precision focusing /optics, small package. You can purchase a top-shelf Leica scope for around $3000 US dollars. So...What's the hold up for downsizing M lenses?
Thanks Alan, this is a refreshing angle to look at this topic. Great points made and yes i'm with you. We don't need more MP.
This is where M43 comes in. Micro four-thirds is capable of superb results and the lenses are far smaller
Yes they are certainly king for a small setup. I have those too
What about the 35mm 1:1.4 Summilux Steel-Rim Reissue? Again in current production and extremely small for a 1.4.
I do show it in the video at the end .
07:58 so which 35mm lens would you recommend for the M6? Something like this lens?
Can you provide a link to what you’d recommend so I can purchase via your link, so my purchase helps your channel?
I have many 35s (8 maybe) that I’ve collected from all brands and my go to is the LLL 35/2 8E *rigid* I plan to perhaps get the same in LTM mount for my Leica iii cameras. I love it! Thanks about using my links, yes it helps me a lot.
I totally agree. This is why I have MFT so I don’t need to carry around a 5DIII all the time.
I was hoping the S9 would be the small form factor FF everyday carry. Without a hotshoe and EVF accessory and weather sealing the S9 won’t cut it unfortunately.
Thanks. Hopefully the S9II!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom yes indeed! I’m therefore hopeful the S9 sells really well to encourage investment by LUMIX in this line of cameras. My preference, however, is probably a GX9 Mark II, given the number of small high quality micro four thirds lenses. The newest sensors are also really capable (esp G9II) such that the only downside of MFT is the bokeh is limited to f2.4 to f2.8 FF equivalent, unless you are shooting in a cave and need the light gathering capability of FF. The G9II is only about 2 stops behind the S5/ S5II/ S5IIX in terms of noise at higher ISOs. The G9II is superior to the G9 (which I own) as the colours hold up well at higher ISOs. So I’d be happy with that sensor in a GX9II body.
On the topic of LUMIX MFT, rumours have it that there will be the announcement of the GH7 tomorrow (5 June 2024)!
I am a huge fan of small cameras with compact lenses. That is what got me to by a M9 back then. And Leica still makes e.g. the 28/2.8 which is very small. But they also introduced the Summarit line and dropped it only a few years later. They were all very compact and even affordable - I wished I had picked up the 50/2.4 - but they didn't seem to sell well enough. So I think Leica knows exactly which lenses sell well and tweaks their offerings to that. I wished though, they would make a 50/2.8 again for the smallest size combined with great quality.
But on the other side, the market of really small lenses, sacrificing the last bit of quality, is well served by Voigtländer and other brands.
On the other side, I really would like a Q with an L mount. Since the S9 is out, this should absolutely be doable. That would give us a more compact package than the M and the option to use both M and L lenses. If you want the most compact L lenses, I think Sigma does make some reasonably sized ones, even if they are larger than M lenses.
The whole 35mm market seems to be rather heading towards larger, better lenses than compactness. On the other side, if size is really the one thing you look for, check out the microFT system. There you get some really tiny lenses and small camers. Which is why I both have M and mFT camers :)
Thanks, yes agree this gives us hope for a smaller FF Leica in the future
..and yes regarding lenses, Leica need to make where in demand
I love my Q2 Monochrom and take it everywhere, however, i've always wished the lens was smaller to get it out of the way. Looking at M10R now and trying to find best options for compact lenses.
Take the Q hood off to reduce the size. Mine had never been on my camera since I got it. Not required for lens flare and adds too much bulk
Matt I love your stuff. But I must say you missed out one important aspects in this video: digital photography. Leica used to make many compact lenses for film. They did not intend it for digital sensors which behaves very differently. With lesser flares and CA issues, film medium allowed these small lenses to pass as the "standard" of its time. If you look at photos taken in that era - they were mostly B&W, shot stopped down sharp corner to corner.
Times have changed though - digital sensors are more demanding. If you adapt those smaller lenses on you can see a lot of imperfections: the leica glow or the leica look which we all love: these are NOT intended by leica engineers, nor foreseen back in the 50s. If anything, Leica is still committed to its original vision of creating great optics, but because we are digital, they have to make lenses larger to arrive at that goal.
I would further point out that their best lenses in the M bloodline are 35 APO and 50 APO : these are very small lenses, even smaller than voigtlander copy, yet optically superior , and almost on par with the mammoth SL (which isnt that much bigger than other mirrorless primes from other brands).
And your point about "sharpness":
these APOs are not sharp- they are transparent. The difference is that Leica makes them so perfect that you could see details like you could in your own eyes. Think microcontrast. There are many brands that are known in creating sharp lenses eg sigma but you never hear them being praised for being transparent. Or being able to capture near to eye details if restricted on a smaller resolution sensor.
And to think they are able to achieve this in a tiny size, for the same mount as the original M3, is no easy feat.
leica has always been making larger camera bodies in history. You forget they made leicaflex, R3-9 with bigger R lenses, then the era of medium format S which they killed. They do this in parallel with M which has remained the same size all these years. Yes Noctilux 0.95 is large. But the first Noc 1.2 werent small either. I dont think any fast lenses are small even in modern third party brands like TTart. And if you want to talk about small lenses Leica do make them at f2.8. It is just that we dont bother in buying them because everyone shoots for thin DOF for the "leica look".
Lastly, if you want to talk about compact pocket cameras, then I am afraid Leica has been making those. The smallest pocket size model that they made is actually the Leica phone.
Hence With a heavy heart but good try.
Thanks and all fair points well made. I have the R cameras too so I know those. I guess I’m happier that most to have imperfect ‘arty’ lenses and I guess as I shoot b&w most ‘issues’ don’t matter to me. CA etc. Their APO lenses are excellent no question.
Thanks Matt like your videos 😊Have just bought a M4 that I carefully cleaned.Ordered a new Voigtl 35mmf2.5.So exited take care small is nice😂
Congrats on you M4 and compact lens! Thanks
Among others I have a Summicron 35mm pre-asph and a Summilux 35mm asph fle. Guess which one is for 99.5% on my camera and which lens is currently on sale?
This is what I mean! Some of us like smaller and more character. Good for you!
Large lenses is unfortunately a problem with all manufacturers atm (looking at you Fuji), the megapixels wars have led to lenses needing to get larger and larger to resolve all those pixels
Yes across the board I think sadly .
Great video Matt. I'll be bringing my small lenses on the trip :)
Thanks Jon! Great to see you here and yes I'll bring mine too!
If you can show me a smaller full-frame camera with a 35mm APO lens that matches the image quality of an M, I'm all ears. I understand your point, but it's important to consider the physics of lenses, which are transmissive optical devices that focus or disperse light using refraction. If you're seeking a different look that is less corrected, there are over 50 years of vintage Leica and other brand lenses made for the M mount that you can choose from, all offering a small form factor.
You can’t lose your way when you created the way. Everything else is paying homage to that legacy.
Thanks fair points, yes I often use the 50s lenses for the size and look (plus modern mentioned third party lenses)
Not sure about this
I recently sold my 35mm voigtlander for a summilux. Reason being that everyone I focused the aperture changed as my hands kept moving the aperture ring
I prefer balance over size . And cameras that are smaller mostly can’t be used professionally as they don’t have a back up. Leica CL a case in point, nice camera but not for a professional gig
Yes some lenses suit us more than others, regardless of brand. I switched from collapsible to rigid LLL with tab and I couldn’t be happier
They need to come back with apsc! I miss the tl and cl series. I have the cl and it’s definitely not for sale. Ricoh sells every camera they make in the GR series for exactly for the small carry size and incredible optics
Thanks, yes the CL had quite a following from the comments I receive. I'm keeping mine!
Did you fix the tear on your M10 or is just that the grip is covering it?
Fixed.. by covering!
Well Sl came to replace leica R line. Leicaflex used to be quite big too. I guess they want to make better optics on Sl because they dont need to compromise on size. And of course you have possiblility to use autofocus. Sensor needs different optical design than film, especially wide angle. Film can tolerate much steeper light hitting its surface than sensor.
Thanks yes good points. I have the R cameras too and my SL is my most used body for portraits. Yes agree if they need to keep improving lenses to keep up with the new sensors the lenses will get bigger.
Yes, isn’t it great that companies like Voigtlander and Light Lens Lab are making compact, new and optically interesting lenses for the L39/LTM cameras. Options are a good thing. Thinking with my limited film use these days and my M9 monochrom given to my son, and my M4 on the chopping block, that I can get by with my IIIb as my only 35mm film camera, but need a wide angle lens to go along with the 5cm Summitar. The Voigtlander 28 Skopar L39 and the LLL 8-element L39 (collapsible or ridged ?) are in the running. LLL has also said they will be doing a 21mm which I hope is in L39/LTM. Compact and small is good, and the Barnack camera may not be as quick to use, and the RF a bit difficult to see compared to the M-series (for me), it still is a nice platform.
Yes 100% agree. I think LLL will make a 28 too
Yes 100% agree. I think LLL will make a 28 too
Actually, the 50mm 1:1.4 Summilux Version I and II are pretty small for such fast fifties but they are heavy.
You gotta carry if you want to be fast 😉!
The great things about the heaviness are that it is a built-in sensor stabilizer in low light plus the best build quality and feel you can get.
Yes they are nice optics and despite my points when I shoot models I carry heavy gear happily if it’s the look I want
It’s funny cause I’ve been so hyped about getting the 28mm summaron 5.6 because of its size. I know it’s an extreme but I’m surprised we haven’t seen anything like that in the 50mm size. That old collapsible could really use a refresh
Yes! It just seems like an obvious gap to fill to me. So obvious other brands are now jumping on it with both Voigtlander and Thypoch making collapsing retro 50s in 2024.
I will be getting that ThyPoch 50mm collapsible, in brass of course.
No, I do not have a Leica camera, but I will adapt it to a mirrorless.
Yes, it comes in brass too. I like lightweight but the brass will likely feel higher quality due to the extra weight.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom that brass version will become available in October, the site said, but you may order it before that time.
I will treat myself in the Summer, to that beauty. I think it'll look great on my blue Nikon Zf.
You are correct. Leica M is one of those things that sits in the back of my mind as a 'nice to have', if I find myself swimming in spare cash with not much else to do with it (heh!). That said, there is something about them that appeals, but I stick with my Fuji X-Pro 3, which is bought and paid for and actually pretty good. With respect to your small lens thesis, the words you speak are true. Currently my Fuji setup includes the Voigtlander Ultron 27mm f2 in Fuji X mount, the TTArtisan 27mm f5.6 Summaron knock off, Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 Nokton Classic (single coater) and the Fuji XF 18mm f2. Yep, they are all small. I should give special mention to the 7Artisans 18mm f6.3 cap lens, which I have in M 4/3 mount for use on a GX800. Its the ultimate low profile street shooter. Optically some would say its garbage (hey, it cost all of £48), but often the results I get from it surprise me.
Thanks, yes I’m a sucker for the small lenses with good enough optics!
Have the same feelings. I have both a Leica CL and Sl2. When I drive to the photo spot I use the SL2. But hiking or biking any distance I take the CL digital. Any anytime I travel by air or rail I take the CL. I have both l mount and m mount lenses. I prefer the M mount. Oscar knew the value of portable.
Nice! Yes I do the same, CL if I can travel without FF, SL is I can carry it for portraits.
Hi Matt, Can I ask.... Just because Leica have moved on from focusing on size and now focus on Optimal quality... How does that suggest they are losing their way? Surely if anything they are finding their way? The M11 and the Q3, their latest compact releases are still in the realm of being the smallest professional cameras on the market really. They have also had the 2 main types of body, M cameras and SL cameras which are very different. Would you say Audi lost their way with the Audi R8 because they now also make a 4x4 Q7? Promise this is all in good faith. Love all your videos and never miss one! Best, Jamie
Thanks Jamie, an excellent point. Yes perhaps I was a little harsh. I know companies need to adapt to survive in the modern world I guess I’m just bias as I like the smaller stuff like they used to make. I should be happy they are still going strong and making nice cameras for us.
Hi Matt
As usual a brilliant, thoughtful video.
My favourite Leica IIIf & 50mm 50mm F/2.8, I've owned & used since the late 1960's.
Along the way I've owned other Leicas in particular R5 + 50mm F/2 Summicron. I've recently purchased a Q,
This latest camera would be so much more useful if it had a Leica IIIf sized body & fixed 28mm F/5.6 lens... but would anybody buy it? (Other than of course, dedicated followers of your channel).
In the real world I use my camera for photographing, dog shows/events, and need an adaptable camera whose focal length is between 100-400mm. The laws of physics of course preclude this from being a small/lightweight lens. A 90mm F/3.5 might have needed to suffice back in the day, and a slow old 135mm Hektor was hardly a better alternative.
However, I do get your point that cameras/lenses have become unacceptably large for the casual (& yes... enthusiast) user. Sadly we all tend to be blinded by the latest, greatest & fastest new alternatives and sadly your ( & my) ideals are possibly relegated to niche backburners of the photographic market.
Thanks! Yes agree the demand is there for the big fast glass so Leica deliver.
Well, I would love a small camera, that's why I put up with the extremely bad rangefinder of my zorki 1. But yeah my digital camera is the Sony zve 10 with two vintage Nikon f lenss, from my grandfather. However I mainly shoot film with a canon 7, fujica st605 and my Mamiya rb67. Everyone of them except the fujica are quite big
Nice! I’ve started using my RZ again, the negs are awesome to print with.
Yes, that's the reason why I bought the Panasonic GM1 and GM5, and later the Olympus Pen-F, beside my big Nikon and Canon. There is a new kid on the block, the new Nikon Zf. Still heavy but nice, and with a TechArt AF adapter it even gives AF with all my old lenses and all those small lenses in Leica M mount. My go to lens for my m43 cameras are the Pana/Leica 15/1.7. The size and weight (and look) is underrated.
Thanks. I have the 15/1.7. I did a video vs the Q as a similar lens at the front.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I saw your video about the Panasonic S9. Great camera, but it will be too "big" for me. If I buy a Nikon Zf, I want to be able to use all the lenses I have with it + Leica M mount with AF. Because there is not yet an AF adapter for it as there is for the Nikon Z mount. The AF thing is a bit important even though I'm an old MF shooter. Imagine getting AF with all my old Zuiko and Nikkor lenses. Nevertheless, Zf is very beautiful and found "nice trousers" for it from Kaza.
What is more important is that with the m43 I also get small, light and affordable telephoto lenses. Also like the 4:3 format better than 3:2. Easier to compose the 1:1 format with it. Have both Mamiya 6MF and 7, so I know that from experience.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I found that video with Q vs m43. As I said, I have both GM1 and GM5. When I take portraits, it's of people who don't like being photographed or aren't used to it. Then I use a GM1 (due to the larger screen than the GM5) and Oly 75mm F/1.8. This becomes so small that I hold it in the palm of my hand and see the model and the screen at the same time, but the model hardly sees the camera and I wait for the moment before I snap. A maximum of five photos, then I have close to a perfect photo.
So I am not sure what is offered in England or Europe but here in the USA you can get the 28mm summaron 5.6 Leica, here in USA it’s build to order. It’s really compact.
Thanks! Sorry yes I thought it was finished but I think I was thinking of the LTM version (from when I was looking). Sorry for my oversight on that one.
Hi thank I wish you were around in the late 90s when I has some money, I would be very happy but I am okay with super sharp lens I was able to get.
Ha I was around in the 90s but hadn't yet discovered photography sadly. I missed Kodachrome :(
If Leica could make some kind of Ricoh GR3 style camera but with instant on and able to be fully manually controlled if desired, I'd jump on it as a second camera for travel etc. It would be nice to see them take that kind of direction of seeing how compact they could make a serious camera and the optics for it. If they could get it to fit in a jeans pocket and have a collapsible lens (doesn't have to be technically perfect but concentrate more on 'character'), then that would be *chefs kiss*.
Like a mini Leica Q!
A Leica D-Lux 8s with a fixed focal length lens, allowing it to be 2cm thinner?
spot on. I am keen for a small high quality manual focus adapted to sony. I worry the infinity isn't calibrated for the more expensive brands... i have a ttartisan 50mm and I corrected infinity stop via tweaking the grub screws. for expensive brands I am hoping they are calibrated correctly out of the box but worry to lay down so much cash to find out.
Thanks! All lenses are calibrated to infinity except some 7A & TTA that give you the tools. If you can’t get it it’s the adapter’s fault
This would have been better if you had Leica side by side... Yes, Leica Summilux and APO lenses are bigger but so are the Typoch equivalents and the Voigtlander APOs. Where I do agree is Leica does not make slower lenses which could be smaller. They need a series of 2.5-2.8 lenses, But from what I have heard they discontinued those as people weren't buying them anymore. If they did, would you buy a new Leica 35mm 2.8 lens for $2000 (an assumption) or buy a Voigtlander at fraction of that cost. Exactly....I think they know that too. So I think the market and cost of development leads them to focusing on higher end lenses which they can sell at a premium.
Yes agreed, I guess the other players have got that part of the market covered
Yes, you are definitely on to something here. Not just lenses but the camera bodies too. I can carry and use a iid with three Russian lenses (20, 28, 35 or 50) all day. With a iiig two lenses. With an M one lens. I want maximum creative potential without back and shoulder pain.
Thanks John, yes once you've experienced a nice compact setup it's hard to carry more (although I do shoot MF and LF so my excuse is wanting a small digital setup so I can carry more interesting cameras - 4x5 etc) :). My 1931 Leica is my daily carry
I use the 28mm tt art on my m8 black and white l nice one mat also Jupiter 8 love small camera s can imagine if they made a xpro 2 type with digital a bit smaller with a😀patch
Nice, yes I do like that little TT28!
The 28MM Leica Elmarit-M f/2.8 is a good size…and let’s not forget…weight.
I also have the Leica 40mm which is not designed for the M but is a cracking lens.
Yes a nice lens, I have that too but it's slightly larger than these crazy small lenses shown. I have the Minolta 40 (similar to the Leica) which is also small (and light)
Great video. I agree completely and add; they have lost their way in cameras also, especially digital. I shoot with a IIIC my father bought in Linz Austria in 1946. The camera has had only one CLA and works perfectly despite heavy use throughout its life. Leica does not make anything today that will be functional in 76 years except for perhaps their non metered MA. They lack the imagination to devise a universal electronics platform that would allow for continuous upgrade of their digital and film cameras. Their service doesn’t have a great reputation either but it is not possible to service cameras for which parts are NLA after 5 years. Very unfortunate. I hope they can turn around and design digital and film cameras worthy of their reputation.
Thanks for sharing your experience and yes I agree, they are not made like they used to be.
Matt I think the Leica 35/1.4 steel rim reissue deserves mention. OK it’s not absolutely as small as some of the other ones you showed, however relatively speaking it is still very small and lightweight. And beyond that it’s character wide-open is just fabulous.
I did! Maybe you skipped the later half and missed it. I show the lens as I’ve used it. Nice size for sure
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom oh my bad, I’ll have to watch it again! Love your channel, love your newsletter!
My Elmar-M 50mm and Summilux 35v2 are sooo good and tiny
Nice combo!
This is why I went away from Nikon mirrorless. But my Z7ii works great with an adapter and Leica M lenses. The Z7 is also a lot less bulky than Leica SL.
Thanks and now Nikon and Sony offer the TechArt adapters for M glass that's another temptation for some people
Nice Matt... That CV 40/2.8 is still of interest to me.....
You'd love that CV-40. It's small, light and just wicked sharp..
The black one is glued to my 1931 Leica it’s that good
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I just picked up a CV 50/1.5 Nokton II and right now shooting the month of June only with it.
Ricoh GR photographers watching this: 🤔🍿📽️
Haha nice :)
They haven’t been released yet but Voigtländer have 2 versions of a 50mm f3.5 APO-Lanthar and 50mm f2.2 Color-Skopar on the way. The upcoming Color-Skopar is very compact and has a focus tab. Really looking to that release.
I agree with you that Leica should do more reissues of their older lenses but not limited edition runs that cost more than the newer models.
Thanks, yes Voigtlander send me the spec sheets as soon as announced. Excited! I’ll be sure to review them when I can.
The Lumix S primes are a near perfect size for the S5. But for the CL, I agree, they are too big. For an auto focusing lens I use the sigma 45mm f2.8. I’d like to get hold of the original Leica 18mm f2.8 pancake just because it’s so small… Lumix could have done with a full frame version of this for the S9… like the 14mm f2.5 they did for their MFT cams.
Yes and yes the 18mm is so light too. I like manual lenses so I sold it but it’s good.
I am waiting for CL2 ❤
Me too!
I don‘t think Leica lost it‘s way. The SL line might seem too big and too heavy, but do you remember the big and ugly DSLRs that defined especially professional photography only some years ago? The SL2/3 are certainly nicer tools. True, if you care about small and light equipment, there‘s a gap in their lineup. I like things being small and portable, too, and that’s why I‘m still using the CL. And I‘d be tempted by a M-styled body with an EVF. But if people want what we call full frame these days, the best possible image quality and autofocus, there‘s a price to be paid, also in terms of size and weight. Cameras like the Nikon Z8 or 9 are not especially small, either. And then there‘s also the Q line. My take is that all the major camera manufacturers have a hard time positioning themselves in the age of the smartphone.
Yes all brands are making bigger kit now. I was kind of hoping Leica would give us something small again too!
It seems like the digital sensor force them to make better lenses. As long as they put the high megapixel Sony sensor into the cameras they have to bring modern, sharp and contrasty lenses because people compare the Leicas to other brands. They lost the track to be an unique camera system with a different look and feel as they had back in the analoge times when every lens was optimized for Kodachrome.
Yes great points Tobi, thanks! (So sad I missed Kodachrome!)
100%. We live in spec hungry times, where superfluous, absolute performance is desired by consumers, even when it's the user experience that matters. It's quite easy to engineer and design 'more;' very hard to design and engineer 'less but better.' The irony for Leica is that people come to the brand primarily for extrinsic benefit - minimalism and creativity (experience); yet the brand is pushing toward intrinsic desire: luxury marketing and 'peeper spec. The next M will be so important to get right, but for me the M11 was a drift too far.
Thanks yes 100% people use Leica for simplicity and minimal (and to me, small too)
It's not just Leica. Nikon, for example, have lost their way, too. Example Nikkor-Z 50mm 1.8S. Stupidly big for a 50mm 1.8. Or Sigma Art lenses...
Yes great point. A student showed me his LUMIX 50 f1.4 S lens a few days ago. It was comically huge!
True 👍🏻 n don’t limit production.👍🏻
Thanks, I think they do this to keep prices high (like Rolex) and because they are handmade in small batches.
Good morning. Can I have a question for you ? You have extensive experience with Leica cameras and Voigtlander lenses. I have such a problem. I bought my first Lecia and was immediately disappointed. The Leica magic was gone. An excellent lens, the Voigtlander Nokton 35/1.2 Aspherical II, attached to the Leica M240 gives very poor results ad the edge of the frame. For example, at f8 only the center of the frame is sharp, the edges and corners are soft and blurry. Additionally, there is a clear vignette. The same lens, attached to the Sony A7RII camera, gives excellent results. At f8 the frame is sharp, from corner to corner. The vignette is small. After all, the lenses were supposed to work better on Leica. What this is about ? My second Voigtlander Nokton 50 mm f/1.5 Asp lens already gives good results attached to the Leica.
Sounds strange. This lenses is good, I have it. Yes it vignetting etc at faster apertures but should be fine stopped down. I don’t buy a 1.2 to stop down so I’ve never seen this
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom The more I research about this problem, the more I am convinced that this is a problem with the lens. This is probably back focusing. It can focus on closer objects, but not on distant ones. Two other lenses that I own, focus to infinity with Leica M240, but this Nokton does not. So the camera is probably fine. I checked this Nokton on my Leica M2 and it doesn't focus at infinity either. So it's probably the lens that requires calibration if something like this is done. Have you ever calibrated your lens? Is something like this being done ?
I agree with your main point (it’d be nice to have more choices in portable lenses), but the moderate size modern M lenses (e.g., APO-Summicron- M 35 mm f/2) are pretty manageable, and might be easier to manipulate their aperture and focus.
Larger manual M-style lenses potentially allow more degrees of freedom to minimize aberrations corner to corner.
Leica does still produce a few petite M lenses. As you later noted, there’s the Summaron-M 28 mm f/5.6. In addition, the Elmarit-M 28 mm f/2.8 and Macro-Elmar-M 90 mm f/4 (collapsible) are reasonably small (the 90’s performance is quite impressive).
They also had made a lovely little 18 mm f/2.8 lens for the TL and CL digital cameras.
I like the compact Elmarit-M 28 mm f/2.8 and the Macro-Elmar-M 90 mm f/4 (collapsible).
Thanks John! Yes sorry I was thinking the Summaron was discontinued but that was only the LTM. I sold the little 18mm and 90 Macro.
@@Hasenvater64 I have both and love using them. The Macro-Elmar-M 90 mm f/4 is a perfect compact travel lens (collapsible), and with the Macro-Adapter- M, you can shoot super close ups and still achieve infinity focus (by collapsing the lens to make up for the backfocus taken up by the Adapter).
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I couldn’t part with my Macro-Elmar-M 90m but you what you need and don’t need. You must have a lot of tiny M mount compatible lenses to choose from.
@@johnkasianowicz6536 I replaced with 90 APO VOIGTLANDER and yes I love small lenses!
If it were physically possible to make a 75mm f/1.2 (glass, 2 5/8" dia.) lens that was collapsible, Leica would have done that, right? All of us who bought this amazing 2.3 pound lens would have good reason to be outraged, right? But we're not. Why? Because we've used it. It's big for good reason.
Yes fair point, it’s awesome, but if you saw my video the half size 75mm Voigtlander came so close to the results.
Many of us want small lenses and gravitated towards Leica for that reason. We should recognise though that not everyone thinks that way and arguably the majority of hobby photographers either don’t care or want to have large lenses as the media coverage says how brilliant they are. Leica needs to follow the market as well as serving its current customer base, many of whom are older (but richer) than average.
Thanks, Yes agree they need to deliver what people want to stay in business. I guess it’s just not wish if it’s possible to go smaller again.
Yes, bring back the small lenses and also the Leica iiif or iiig.
Yes! +1. ..they would sell like hot cakes!
Hi Matt. Can you compare LLL 50mm Elcan vs Thypoch 50mm Eureka ?
Absolutely! I'm already on it. Stay tuned! :)
To be fair, a 35mm film camera is a box with a hole in it. There is not a lot that needs to be stuffed in the box. Not so with a digital camera which needs sensor, electronics, battery etc etc.
I primarily use the Leica 35 Apo Summicron, which I regard as possibly the perfect blend of size and quality. I use that for probably 85% of my images. I have a VM Nokton 21 f1.4 and a 75 Apo Summicron which are not huge but certainly much bigger.
Yes good point on electronics although the S9 just policed it can be small. Yes that 35 APO is a top performer!
It’s eye wateringly expensive - and just went up 15% here in NZ - but it’s an amazingly good lens. The most “transparent” window into the world I’ve ever used in more than 40 years as a photographer.
I still love my Leicas up to an including my 50mm Lux M Mount. But my 90mm APO I'm going to trade becuase I just never use it because it's a bit of a lump. I don't need lenses tio be tiny, just small.
I think Leica should focus on compact and character. Getting into the resolution arms race has been pointless for them, you just can't compete with the likes of Sigma art lenses at the price point, Some of them are absurdly good for the money.
Yes, thankfully LLL are doing the small character lenses so I’m loving their 35mm & 50mm copies. My most used lenses in those FL as they do what Leica could do. Make great small character lenses like they used to.
Everyone wants an all in one feature set, but compact personafied. Something had to give
I think most Leica user are happy with small simple and minimal but if we want the best fastest most perfect optics too that's where it doesn't work
Or bifurcate between 2 lines- one more budget, small lens, CL line and then another with the highest quality possible, SL line
Yes that works for me.. though they tried the Summarit line and killed it off
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Yep, but I think that decision was premature- the Summarits have become very popular in the secondary market now. Even Leica's own stores have videos on RUclips talking about the mistake that decision has turned out to be! I think they could easily bring them back now and they would sell like hotcakes- much better than re-badged Sigma and Panny lenses!
Part of the reason is the customers themselves! People want big heavy Summiluxes and Noctiluxes. Leica's new fast lenses are great optically. But pointless IMHO.
Also, the 28mm Summaron isn't great in the corners. Not on digital cameras anyway.
Thanks, yes Leica need to build what people demand so I get it. Yes the Summaron (and clone) have a softer filmic look
The average user can not use small old camera. Pros need auto focus for various things. They must expand the market to survive.
Yes fair point though I shot weddings with M cameras and all my photoshoots are MF cameras. Depends on the niche I guess. Some pros use M bodies but they don't suit all work.
Just came back from a walk shooting with my Olympus XA and tought why we as customer chassing these big bulky high resolution lenses and cameras.As a apsc and MF shooter I consider my self also guilty about it.If any company would remake digital Olympus.XA or Contax T I would buy that thing in a hart beat.
Nice! I’m glad it’s not just me!
The actual travesty is Leica abandoning the CL format/form factor. And that while the Ricoh GR and Fuxi X100 series are among the most in demand cameras on the market.
I can only hope that they killed it before bringing out a FF version (like the S9 but with features!)
Given the development of smartphones, the pocket camera market is long gone. Leica is more and more like a boutique brand.
And as influencers and celebrities move away from the film trend (the novelty wore off) Leica and their boutique approach will feel a hit.
Yes fair point for smart phones. It'll be interesting to see the market in 5-10 yrs.
I think Leica should make a M43 ILC, maybe a Leica version of the Lumix G9ii. They already make many Leica/Lumix compact lenses for that system.
Yes I'm sure they would sell if they did. I have the Pany-Leica 15mm f1.7
I tried the SL2S and CL, but have now gone back to m43 for everyday carry AF. IMHO the GX80/85 is the best of them with IBIS and RF-like EVF positioning. The G100D has a better EVF but lacks IBIS. Remake a GX80 with the OLED EVF and G9II PDAF sensor and it's a sure winner. The 15/1.7 and 25/1.4 Summiluxes are brilliant; as is the new 9/1.7.
100% correct.
Thanks! Just my 2p!
Nice Polaroid SLR 680/690 that gent has…..
Well spotted. yes it was a nice surprise that Tobi brought that. You'll see it again soon ;)
I agree.
Thanks Jake!
To be fair, why isn't there a Summicron 35 mm on the table?
Do I want a walk-around 28 mm f 5.6 or one whose more shallow depth of field can be of some use (like an f 2).
Do I want lenses whose images show usable details at wide apertures or lenses whose corners show blurry details or even swirly bizarre stuff (Voigtlander 35 mm f 1.4 classic for instance).
Do I want a range-finder body with an easily usable range-finder, or one whose range-finder is just a pain to use or totally inexistant?
For pockets there is the X series or the now new D-lux 8, and personally I am totally happy of the size of the Q series that perfectly fits in my hands and the size of its 28 mm f 1.7 (and of its f 1.7) and would not want a smaller camera. Just a question of ergonomics. Cameras are for hands not pockets ;o)
In conclusion I have a Leica II with a 50mm retractable lens which I will never use unless for fun. Compact body and lens, a lot of "character" for some but only giving images with less quality, thence less versatile (enlargement, information/details...) than my M6 or 10. Remember it is very easy to do worse with good, or even excellent (one can always blur or damage a sharp image that shows the right contrast and resolution in multiple ways. What one cannot do is turn a bad negative or file (low contrast, low resolution, deterioration of image in the corners) into the opposite.
Thanks Bruno, you missed the 35 Cron on the table - the LLL 8E is a v8 Cron clone (near identical as you'll see in a video to come). Yes my 1931 Leica doesn't use all conditions but the f2-2.8 lenses cover most of my walkabout needs.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom So I did not miss any Summicron (especially the recent aspherical versions), there was none out of the 10 lenses shown, just a "clone" (made by Leica with the same glass, grinding, treatment, coating? Assembled and controlled in the very same fashion? [yes, I do know what I am paying for when I buy Leica ;o)]. Imagine why would I want to meet a clone of you (made by someone else) if I could meet you in person? ;o)
I'm waiting for CL2~~!!!
I wish CL2 was FF.
Says the guy travelling with 4x5s in a carry-on 😅 srsly though you're probably right they could reissue some lenses from the past or make new ones in a smaller vintage style but with updated optics (basically like all the other brands you mentioned) and probably make a killing. It's being done in the hifi world with speakers as well...
Haha thanks Thomas.. ssh. Don't mentioned the 4x5.. well actually you can. If my Leica kit is smaller I have more space for my 4x5 setup haha! Yes 100% agree on your points.
Matt I've just got a pergear 25mm f1.7 for my fuji xt 10 / xe2 this gives me a small package with acceptable quality but its apsc and manual focus apart from the 27mm 2.8 pancake from fuji difficult to make autofocus small . Moving back to Leica's full frame m cameras are quite big and heavy compared to apsc . In the 30s 40s 50s people who bought leica 1/11/111s were enthusiasts even adventurous these cameras are hard to use if you even use any camera today film or digital 90% of people will point out you must be mad we take photos with our telephones today so to get a small company to introduce a niche product as you are suggesting is a pipe dream ,leica built the perfect camera(according to them) in 1954 i mean they have hardly moved with the times have they. Any small interchangeable lens camera would have tobe apsc max not full frame the only company i think that could make it a reality is fuji they take chance's think out of the box and have the resources and know how to do it leica build the M everything else comes out of Panasonic japan leicas are rebadged panasonics . New version of pre war leicas forget it man nobody is going to bring out a modern mini 35mm film camera in this day and age of people taking photos with their telephones sorry mate think I'll smoke a pipe and dream😊
Thanks, there is demand for film (from people bored with phones) so never say never. Thanks why so many Instax backs keep coming out for all our various fav cameras - 4x5, RZ, Hassy etc. people want non-digital too
I wonder, if I"m the only person in the world that has finally gotten to the point of saying...
"I have ENOUGH 50mm lenses....no more....no more...."
;)
Give it a week and you’ll be back! :) You need to, the new Thypoch is nice! :)
In your „timeline“ of growing cameras, you completely ignore the R and the S systems, that were even bigger than the SLs. Leica is not losing their way, they are continuing their tradition of acknowledging that there are markets for more than their main line of cameras, aka the M. Kudos to Leica for that!
Yes sorry I was trying to simplify. I own multiple R bodies too and have used the S bodies.