⭐️To Center.. or not to Center? _(Z Reviews)_ Home Theater 103
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Upon Re-watch I seem to ramble and lose track of what I am saying a bit more than usual in this one. My apologies. If you guys want a re-do I can make it happen at some point. Try to follow along with Sleep Deprivation Zeos at home!
Why? Tbh this is one of the most in-depth and informative videos you've ever done
how long could you make a video? like we have something better to do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Only question I have, rb 42 or mb-42x? Does the crossover make it worth it?
Well, no one will configure their receiver to have a centre channel and not connect it. Why not compare using fronts for LCR channels and fronts + centre for LCR?
Nahh you’re good man. Already knew all of this from watching your videos for years but still enjoyed the 43 minutes of Zeos chatter as always. Good informative stuff. Stay safe my friend.
I had two ultra towers and the PB3000. My wife just got me the Ultra Center for my Bday and she said its been her favorite upgrade so far. She loves what it did to the sound, she doesn't know why, but she loves it and she knows nothing about audio. Highest praise I can give it is her approval 😉
Do you have off-axis listeners that you care about? If yes, then use a center.
Illegal Summary Detected. Need to stretch this out.
@@ZReviews For 42 minutes?! Using all China Flu gear?!! At least you could have made a steak during for a z-cooks hybrid episode.
Guys can I just do a 4.1 instead of 5.1? I don’t really like to spend a lot on just the center so I was thinking just do the ultras for left and right add a sub then prime satellites for surround.
@@bennya5171 YES - definitaly, please believe me for good (and Z Reviews)
@@bennya5171 Yes as long as you can configure a virtual or phantom center channel. The only downside is a listener off to the side will hear the center channel off-center. If you only care about the one central listening position then it works perfectly fine.
Home Theater 101 INTRO : ruclips.net/video/U-tfoHeA-tY/видео.html
Home Theater 102 RECEIVERS : ruclips.net/video/b01kHaqc-iY/видео.html
Home Theater 103 CENTER CHANNELS : ruclips.net/video/ILFo9zLGqzI/видео.html
Home Theater 104 REAR CHANNELS : ruclips.net/video/Cz2gCFfo2Ho/видео.html
Home Theater 105 SUBWOOFERS : ruclips.net/video/jpUMx3VpFK8/видео.html
Hey Z, link on 102 receiver link above is the same as link to 104 rear channel link. Thanks for all your Videos, I have 4 amps and a house full of speakers thanks to you .. but I love it :)
Do the Surround receiver "know" if the center is not connected? Ie does it filter out sounds in the fronts when the center is not connected?
@@oscarjung5405 You might need to setup it correctly e.g. from 5.1 to 4.1.
Center match for Buchardt S400s?
@@amitdawar1 Sorry, Fixed it.
A friend of mine was running two beastly canton tower speakers and a leftover bose center. He thought he needed it. I came by and pulled out the center. He never heard his speakers sound so good
I gave my father my ELAC debut B5s when I moved out to replace his old, cheap Pioneer floorstanders from the early 90s. It was originally a 5.1 setup but I changed it to 2.1. I came home and he was using the center channel again, claiming it sounded better. The Pioneer center speaker was a big elongated box with one 3" paper woofer with a *sealed* frame, making the entire enclosure useless. I told him NO, and removed it. I may just have to buy a center so he doesn't have to unknowingly suffer!
@@Zircemerald depending on how old he is, the extra volume from that centre (especially since it doesn't add much low-end) probably just made the voices and such more audible for him.
@@DareDevilPhil am i wrong about that the dialogues are recorded mostly in the center channel ?
@@gino3286 yeah typically anything that is the primary focus on-screen is through the center channel
@@DareDevilPhil hi thanks for the kind confirmation I have noticed that all the dialogues come from the center Only the effects are coming from the other channels
I think that 5.1 and more formats have been a disgrace 4 channels are more than enough to provide a complete 360 degrees audio like in quadriphonic recordings
Play this on speed 1.25 and it sounds like Robert Downey Jr. / Tony Stark talking to us about center channels
I always play on 1.75 or 2.0 except when he plays us some movies/ music. :^)
L😂L
Lol nice
Wow I doubted you, but it's so true.
@@troysparks3772 hehe 😜 arrrrr love it 🙏🏻
i abandoned center channel over a decade ago. now run 4.4.2 with matching towers and subs. to my ear, phantom center is much better.
So you run 4 mains, 4 surrounds and 2 subwoofers? That’s gotta be one hell of a sonic assault!
An entire video of Zeos talking about center channel speakers makes me so very, very happy. And is exactly why I'm a patron. But i am also a real sicko.
Real Sicko's should join Princess Pasta's Patreon.
@@ZReviews I will look into it, Z!
I agree the center is the most important in home theater but I can tell from experience that when I swapped out my rear bookshelf's for towers it made a Huge Difference. The sound coming from the rear matched the fullness coming from the front and made the overall experience more immersive and believable.
lol using towers as surrounds
I would love to have towers for all speakers, that would be something!
Hey Z, while some don't use a center speaker and they're happy doing phantom, there are reasons to use a center that can't be accomplished otherwise. A center speaker allows you flexibility - to raise or lower the volume of the center speaker and dialog. Even if you like the flanking fronts for music, they may not be to your taste for movies and dialog. I had this situation and chose a different brand for my center - it blended nicely and outstanding vocal clarity, no struggles.
When Zeos speaks, I listen, especially when there is a center channel!
Best way to improve center channel is to use a dedicated subwoofer. I did on mine and the dialog is awesome. I can't believe my ears the sounds I missed without the sub. Like Z said, expirement. Glad I did.
I ordered the JBL 520 center literally a day before I watched this video. When I heard Z say they're one of the best centers, I've never felt so relieved in my life.
I am using 2 Wilson Sasha 2 with massive Krell amplification for fronts in 2 channel mode. I also listen in 2 ch mode when watching movies. Absolutely no center needed. The Wilson’s image so well and put voices dead center. I don’t care about any other seating positions except the one I’m sitting in.
I think you misunderstand how surround sound decoding works. The center channel is indeed important, but to say the LEFT and RIGHT are not important and that for movies everything comes out of the center, that is incorrect. In your video before you plug in your center channel, your processor is still decoding to 7.1, so any sound that is meant to come out of the center is not heard until the speaker is plugged back in. If the content you are watching is mostly center weighted then, yes, you will hear most of the sound coming out of the center, but don't let that fool you. The focus changes from one scene to another, and the left and right speakers play a huge role in creating a life-like effect. One of the main uses of the left and right is playing the films' score, music is used to fill the room and often the center is also included for this task in conjunction with the left and right speakers. So I would put equal weight on the center, left and right speaker. In fact, the ideal LCR set up is three identical speakers. If you don't believe in the importance of the left and right, when compared to the center, try substituting them with poor quality speakers and try watching an entire movie that way. I think you'll quickly change your mind.
Too long for his attention span lol
Well said!
I would miss not having the left and right, BUT I think they are under-utilized with most modern mixes.
@@ZReviews Watch a movie you know well in 7.1, and then watch it again with your LEFT and RIGHT off, but don't change the mix down. In other words, don't let the decoder know that you have unplugged the left and right speakers. You will notice a huge difference, and you'll realize just how critical the left and right speakers are. Most of the music and sound effects come out of the left and right speakers. The center channel mostly carries dialogue, punches and other sound effects in action films, and occassionally music as well.
If u configure your set up with telling the reciever or preamp no center then its gonna send center duties to the front left and right so gonna get center channel sound but yur fronts have to be set up real good so u can get that center imaging
Also, for a small home theater, sometimes the best left and right speakers are two MTM center speakers standing on their end. They often offer higher sensitivity, lower bass, higher power handling and better imaging than regular bookshelf-type speakers.
I will go one better...I use a pair of SVS Ultra Centers as my main Left and Right Speakers in a 2.1 configuration for music exclusively. The sound is phenomenal. The SVS Ultra Center is a true 3 way speaker. The dome tweeter handles the highs, the 4 inch driver handles the upper mids and the dual 6.5 drivers handle the lower mids. Bass Management is set at 80 Hz and routs all LFE to the sub. The 3 way speaker design of the SVS Ultra Center reproduces music in a way I have not heard in any other system. Very detailed and revealing. I hear stuff I have never heard before in albums I have owned and enjoyed for years. Its an unconventional configuration for sure but sometimes you have to step outside the norm to do something special. Highly recommended!
I totally agree about the center channel is most important. I certainly running three tower speaks for front channels and it sounds amazing.
Zeos... great... great job. really thanks for doing this.
You are not "only a reviewer"... you are a professor about the HIFI and a great entertainer.
I see all your videos cause i know that i will learn something in each of them and have a good time watching you speaking about the passion of everybody here... the HIFI wolrd.
Once more, thank you.
I don’t understand why left and right do so “little” when using a center! I feel like center should pick up mainly voices in the center of the screen and highlight that voice clearly and without low end bass... and if a person is on the left, then the left and center should pick that up! Low end should only kick in when there’s like a car driving from left to right! Makes no sense that the front stage is mainly a center!
Center is supposed to be located directly under the view area or if you have an audio transparent projector screen, behind it. In the encoding of surround sound, everything that comes from the screen is coded for the center. Why is that? Simple. Point source projection. Playing sounds from the left and right speakers widens the sound stage to greater than the view area giving you weird object placement. When the guy gets kicked in the face in the middle of the screen and it sounds like he got kicked in the middle of your room you lose spacial recognition and it eliminates immersion.
It is all up to the people mixing the movie/show whatever. Some receivers can blend the channels in a way that seems to better utilize all channels but that is a band-aid.
Alternatively. Japanese Surround sound mixes like on Anime such as Evangelion Movies or Psycho Pass use ABSURD positional audio in the rear and stretch the .1 sub to its limits. I feel like all other media pulls its punches.
Z Reviews you’d think with all these huge blockbusters like mission impossible, fast franchise and the marvel movies for example, they’d do more positional audio engineering stuff... especially with cruise being an audiophile himself and the marvel movies chock-full of explosion/fighting scenes!
Like if you were to divide a screen into 3 vertical rectangular boxes, I’d like the center to mainly focus on the voices in middle one and, when needed, to share the side boxes with the left or right speaker when needed.
For example, if a person is standing more towards the left side, I’d like it to be like 60% left speaker and 40% center, so the sound gets pulled to the left, instead of the middle.
Whenever I watch movies with a center, it’s always so noticeable that there’s a center in use, almost like a sub that’s not ‘dialed’ in. When I watch in 2.1 or full surround, but without a center, it somehow feels way more realistic!
Then again, I’ve never experienced a $800+ center speaker setup xD
I used the phantom center channel for years until I got sick and tired of turning down the volume in loud action scenes and turning up again so voices could be heard. of course, a HT receiver had to be acquired but everything is OK now, a center channel spkr is necessary for my ears' well being.
I'm currently building my new theatre and I'm wrestling with myself with this: "To center or not to center, that is the guestion?"
I have good left and right tower speakers which I would like to use to their full extent, and so I was thinking: not to center.
But then.. I have also done the same thing as Roberto.. turning the volume up and down between action and dialogue.. so now I'm wondering if I must get a center after all.
It just seems like I don't use the towers full potential if I put on a center.
Well, maybe I'll try both ways and see which is better.
I think all you have to do is disable the center in receiver to route the channel to FL-FR, when you disconnect the speaker the receiver still send the center channel on center out
I simply have no space under my TV for a high quality center channel unless it's hight is less than 3", and over the TV is not an option bc of height channels. My front L/R speakers are awesome Klipsch r-610f's so phantom center is the way to go. And don't downplay the importance of surround channels. It's called surround sound for a reason, so I'm looking to upgrade them next. Especially for Transformers, they are very underrated.
I would rather put more money into the L and R and create a phantom center. Center channel’s upside is better off axis seating sound, but there are downside, like having so much of the sound managed by a smaller speaker, having to have it sit below or above the tv usually, having to timbre match, having the set the tweeter of the L C R at the same height.
Center is problematic. Ear perception of middle and especially high frequency is radically decreased if yuor loudspeaker is headed directly in the front of you head. Make a test. Make clicking noise /sound in your hand and go with your hand/noise around yor head from left to right ear and back. You will find out that the perception of heigh frequency is at lowest in the middle, between your eyes. Best perception of sound is either front or rigt. That is why trinagle positioning between you and your loudspeaker is recomended as minimum for audiophile. That is why some old cheap receivers have equalizer only on center speaker, to compensate mentioned negative efect. Recommendation, do not use center speaker in your home theater system if you are watching it alone. Make setup in your receiver for 4.1 or so. Means for center do not use setup "large", neither "small" but disabled. I have experienced that if I disabled center on ONKYO receiver that then also full dynamic range was compressed, explosions no more loud. I am using older DENON - AVR 1911and it is ok, it supports full D.R. on my 4.1/6.1 setup with no center.
Also comment: Car/sound going from R to L via center will not be "simultaneous?" even if all your speakers are the same. Car going from R to L speaker without center will be "simultaneous?".
This is the best center channel conversation on the internet.
2:11 how is that not a meme yet
ikr I burst out laughing
That's what I do too. I have 6-ft tall MartinLogan Prodigy front speakers and there's no comparable center speaker (not even from MartinLogan), nor do I have the space under the TV for it. 4.1 ftw, who cares about people sitting off-axis (it won't be me).
The way surround pushes everything to the center channel is one of the reasons I typically dislike or even hate surround over something like all channel stereo with very specific tuning to allow for better ability to hear dialogue. With this, I lose some of the directional audio but get a much more enveloped sound since the same information is being sent to all left and right channels. I've never understood the desire for directional audio over detailed, enveloping audio. That's just my preference though so I won't hate on anyone who does. I also listen to music like 95% of the time for any speaker I have so I obviously have a preference for stereo just due to familiarity.
Hi how about the ultra center with the prime bookshelf ? 80% movies 20% music
I would also add. If you have a relatively narrow room like mine is long and narrow. Giggity. If you pin all that stuff to the center Channel. When the sides kick in it can be a little jarring. It seems to integrate better without the center.
This coming from the man how never uses a centre channel. Thats gold.
I thought that too, until I bought a Yamaha DSP AZ2, with it's 8 channel stereo mode. you can be sitting at right angles to the speakers at one end of the room outside the speaker "box" and still got a perfect stereo image. Though if you want something special, listen to the end credits of "The Animatrix" that is amazing experience in surround.
I'll agree with many others here. You really don't need a center channel speaker. If your L/R already images well you can get by without it. If you do plan on using a center and surround speakers. The you should buy a matching set.
Great take, i completly agree.
Bought my fronts last months (Nubert Nuline 122, 47kg a box) and now my center (Nubert Nuline CS72, 16,5kg) sounds much smaller.
Had phantom center for years, because no center speaker, that i could pay for, would be good enough.
Then i started this system with the CS72 as most expensive speaker i had bought untill then.
It served me well for years and i thought about just using more CS72 as front and surround.
But i still bouahgt the huge Nuline 122 as fronts, because of loudspeaker crazyness.
I am running Klipsch RP-280F LR with the matching 440C in the center, with a 100W JBL powered sub out of a wonderful Yamaha receiver. So a 3.1 system, essentially. Music sounds incredible and movie night is superb. I don’t care about surround sound, but the center channel is what ties it all together for me. When I used to use just my old Sony SS-B3000s I had to crank the volume up SO LOUD to hear dialogue. Now I can comfortably watch Netflix at a reasonable lower volume but still crank it for a more “cinematic” experience. My old Sonys still get used plenty in another room for music :)
You should also add that it depends on your screen size. On a 70" tv your center will be half as big as the tv, so no real issue. I also have 2 big fronts and dual subs, but a center makes the sound more envelopping
a) not controversial take at all
b) I've had a bad center, which I didn't use, because it was bad (5.1 audio downmixed to 2.0 towers was better)
c) my only issue with that is that in my current setup with a decent center, I still somewhat prefer running without it. I don't do it, but towers make the sound "bigger", whereas even with a good center , the sound is coming directly from it. So, either have a good center, or no center at all. Both are significantly better than a bad one.
I agree in part - IF you run a center channel it is definitely the most important speaker in a surround setup, however if you are i. the situation where you can get uour front L and R placement and seating just right, a phantom center channel is an excellent choice too, as long as you're getting good center imaging from your seat.
I know you love the JBL 520C. I replaced my Centre with Emotiva C1+. I'm alot happier. Won't sell my JBL 530s, I love those.
I have elac speakers two front towers and center channel and two book shelf need a power amplifier
The real question then. Is if you spent all that money on a left and right channel.
Would it not make more sense to run it in 4.1 or 4.0 channel.
Instead of 7.1 or 7.0 ?
for me i never use a center channel i run 4.1 just tell the decoder i have no center , plus i have acoustic treatment at the 1st refection points , dont understand why people have a center theres no need
Again, Depends on who is sitting where. And how much movies are involved.
So no SVS in the center recommendations list? Or does the Ultra up top overshadow the whole list?
Also wondering this.. im getting the ultra bookshelves pretty soon! 😁
Z I just bought my first center today, but I’ve had the other surround for 7 years and I never once heard what you’re hearing here. Everything was always crystal clear.
Currently running a 4.1 setup with Kef R3's as Front L/R and Jamo S803's as Surround L/R, no center, sounds amazing
I play 80% games... so what in that case? Because in that case... you want full range speakers all-around, because any type of sound will and can come from anywhere. Also... I definitely can hear the direction of those subwoofer bases and thus I hate the idea of a subwoofer.
run 4.4.2. yes, get full range out of your fronts and rears.
You made a video saying center speakers are not necessary for movies if you use phantom center mode. Are you now saying the opposite? By the way, I ordered the JBL 530 based on your review of them.
Depends on how you mix the output. You selected 7.1 and unplugged the center, so surprise, surprise, center channel information was missing. If you had selected a 6.1 or 4.1 mix, the center channel information would have come out of the left and right channels, and if you were sitting in the sweet spot, you would have had a phantom center channel.
The moral: If you're listening for one and sitting in the center, and you're mixing that way, and you have good imaging left/rights you can more than get by without a center channel even for surround sound home theater.
Yeah well a 6.1 is how I normally run. And everything is fine. Point being adding that center didn't actually make it sound better in my case. Because Heresy front end.
15:00
thank you mighty Z you are a formidable force in the realm of RUclips audio channels! I am turning my def tech center with integrated sub off due to your wisdom as I have kef r11s in the front.
Thanks to you I’m now using my up firing Atmos for surrounds. It really ads a new dimension
is this setup much better than running them as height channels? Depending upon selection of program, Atmos doesn't have many effect
Bought a Bic Accoustech’s listed above after having this conversation with you a few months back. My living room is long so my previous center wasn’t doing the job. I’ve never been happier with a speaker purchase. Dialogue is clear and precise, bonus points because my receiver no longer needs to be pushed into overdrive. Well worth $199
What if I have good front speakers . Paradigm book shelf speakers. Forgot the model number. Cost $450 12 years ago. And have the svs ultra center channel. This thing rocks
Thats a kickass looking center channel !!
One of the best talking there man! Center is critical
40 mins later still can't decide if i should buy a center or not. Thanks Z 🤣🤣
I ended up getting 2 Rockville RSG8 8" speakers and a Behringer KM750 to power them. It works surprisingly well, before that I was using a huge old Klipsch Tangent T30 that I got for dirt cheap.
Hi there 😊
One thing you can do with phantom center (to negate the left-right bias), is to angle the left speaker directly at the position to the right of center, right speaker to the left of center. The effect of that, is simple, yet very good in my experience. When you sit to the right, you are closer to the right channel, but....you are off axis from the right, and ON axis for the left. That makes the sound seem centered in a much wider spot. 😊
Whoa, just tried this out and it works really well. I'll definitely be doing this anytime I have guests. Thanks!
Next step would be to use a full range center speaker for L, C and R ?
I think that all the dialogues come from the center ?
this is a limit of home theater recordings ... there is no stereo effect on voices
They should have used a 4 channel audio system and done with that
Like the Kimber format
Thank you JBL for offering me a wimpy center channel for my JBL Studio 590's left/ Right. And wimpy 520 center with 4 inch drivers and a lesser horn than what's offered on the 590's! Still sounds fantastic but still!🤔🙄🤪🤯🤓 And you know Steven with the Studio 500 series you absolutely need to match the center with the left and right. Maybe not the SVS but absolutely the JBL. Also the electrostatic needs the matching Center. You should know this. Crazy you are talking about Center channel when for you down played having one for years!🤪🤯🤯 And no, I am not a hater at all!😇 Who do you think convinced me buy The JBL's in the first place!🤪🤪🤪😜🤫🤫🤗🤓
Z! This is the EXACT video I was looking for!! You have filled a hole in my heart! Would you include a Kef LS50 on that center list? I have a pair and was looking to match for the center. Aloha from Hawaii!
I'm not Zeos, but if you can place a LS50 on the center of you Home Theater, then By all means, go on about it! It's a concentric speaker so it's as far as a point source goes, making it great for center channel, and you can't match better to your sides than to have the exact same speaker on the center.
In fact, really big, really expensive h ome theaters do the same, they have something like thrree Klipsch La Scalas or Klipsch Horns or BIG JBLs behind the screen as front-sides and center, so they are matching and also at the same height.
@@marcosvictor4935 👍 And it's the exact same speaker, perfect pick.
I fill lots of holes. In more places than hearts. And YES. I can add the LS50 if you can find it sold Singularly.
phantom center FTW !!! unless LCR is the exact same drivers, timbre will be off
A curve ball Mr. Z:
The JBL 520c is a center channel you recommend in the description. Many complain though that it's not very good compared to its matching 570/80/90's. You say that the center doesn't have to match, but admit that it's nice if it does. Being that JBL doesn't offer a better matching center, what are good options which work well with the 570/80/90s?
My sound system consists of 2 SVS Ultra Bookshelf speakers, an SVS Ultra Center speaker, 2 SVS Ultra Surround speakers, 6 SVS Prime Elevation speakers (4 ceiling mounted for Dolby Atmos and 2 mounted on the rear wall for the rear channels) and 2 SVS SB-3000 Subwoofers. The system is powered by a Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A8A 11 channel AVR and connected to a Panamax M5400-PM.
4- channel quadrophonic recordings started in the 1970's,but never really caught on.There are a few artists who've recorded in 5.1 DTS/DVS,Steven Wilson, Pink Floyd, and Nirvana
Everything said in this video is relatable. I have klipsch dual 8 towers ran them phantom 2.1 for 2 years. Just bought an older top of the line big center at a good price. Even tho it’s soft dome and not horn loaded it blends fine for movies. Off for music so it works perfectly. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge z. Love ya bro stay safe!
I use JBL Stage a170 for LCR. They are about the same price as an SVS Satellite. SVS offers a system with all satellites and a sub.
I guess the Sub better be under the center so any Male voices have support under your Screen.
The low frequency performance of the Sattelite mixed with the price for it really has me reluctant to buy from SVS without winning a lottery first.
I ordered the Ultra Center and the ultra bookshelves. I forgot there was the Prime Pinnacles. Are the ultra bookshelves good enough... Or is the best set up be, The ultra center and 2 pinnacles or Ultra Center and 2 ultra bookshelves. Appreciate the info =)
I like the idea of 3 identical bookshelf speakers for the front 3, my problem is only have about 10 inches between the tv and stand, not many are 10 inches tall or less.
A better sound demo would be ... comparing with a center playing as 5.1 ... and without a center (mixed into mains) .. and then see which delivers better performance. ( I realize it's not really the point)
I do agree with the importance of the matching front 3 ..and a very significant attention to center for the 80% of the detail. Great topic / demo.
I get your point, and I have done both, but you always need a center because everybody watches TV with somebody. Bigger better center and bigger better sub are absolutely true but I would stay in the same model family as the fronts. If you cant get all SVS then get all Elac or something else. Keeping the tone all the way around does make a difference especially across the front stage. That being said, if you don't have a center don't let that stop you, and if your speakers do not match don't let that stop you either. At the end of the day just do an HT anyway you can! lol
Did you already sell that svs ultra centre? Just picked up the bookshelves and will either run phantom or with my klipsch Vic-25 until I can pick up the ultra centre.
Thanks Z! Really helped me figure out how important a C is! I'm excited to get it!
My center is Paradigm Signature C5 v2, a 3 foot wide, 3.5 way with 2 7" dedicated bass woofers, 2 7" mid/bass, a 4.5" mid and a 1" beryllium tweeter. I definitely think I have enough center channel to match my customized Paradigm Studio 100 v5 upgraded to Signature v2 tweeters and mids.
I would clearly be in the center not needed camp as my fronts are high end and I don't often have severely off axis listeners. However, that monster center just looks so good, so I keep it around.
I have now converted to phantom center and haven't looked back. I kept trying it out and as good as the Paradigm C5 was, I just kept realizing that it simply sounded better without a center.
I simply have no idea why more people don't skip the center channel. Maybe some other brand speakers lack the rock solid center image of Paradigm speakers. I had always heard that a phantom center was bad if you are sitting far off center, but as long as you are a good distance away from the speakers this really becomes a non issue, at least with my speakers. The only time that I could see an issue would be off center near field listening.
This is even ignoring budget, once budget is added it is an absolute no brainer. Putting it in Paradigm terms, if you had $2k to spend on your LCR you could grab a pair of Studio 100 v4 and a CC690 v4 center and have great sound, or you could save a bit of money and have a pair of Studio 100 v5 serving as the full LCR with phantom center. In my opinion the 100 v5 will easily beat the v4 LCR. What if money is no object, should you grab that matching CC690 v5? I say pass as you are adding money to increase clutter and in most situations downgrading your overall sound.
I'm a perfect candidate for your first scenario, 1) don't have high quality left and rights, 2) 95% tv and movies, 3) some off angle viewing. So I should buy one of your $700 and up choices
"Are we not doing phrasing" 😂😂 I knew I liked you for a reason
I use extended stereo and all my svs speakers produce quality sound. I listen to music more than movies. I run a 5.2.4 configuration for my system and music on extended stereo is awesome! I have all svs
Surround X.X.X first number is # of surround speakers, second set of numbers is # of subs, third set of numbers is # of Atmos speakers.
You are right on. Some people don't get it in the comments, perhaps they've never had large high quality L/R towers. Either a full-size matching center (with something better than a basic MTM horizontal design which has problems), a matching 3rd tower or bookshelf, or none at all. In this case, the SVS bookshelf + SVS large well designed center = good.
Most center channel speakers suck. If you're going to use a dedicated center, you definitely want a three-way design. Alternatively, a high quality bookshelf speaker makes an excellent center channel. Ideally you want to use the exact same bookshelf L R C speakers up front. A traditional bookshelf speaker as a center channel is more often than not a better option than a dedicated center and I'm not sure why more people don't go this rout.
I have a enormous klipsch RC-64II center channel (1.75” titanium compression tweeter) with my klipsch RP 8000Fs (1” titanium dome tweeter) for my front sound stage and it sounds incredible.
I got the version 3 and ya... I don’t think he’s thinking of centers the size of many towers out there lol... more the the 99% of them the size of his SVS
Hi Wade and Scott! I just bought the RC64iii. If you don’t mind, can you tell me what you’re powering it with?
I usually watch movies alone phantom center channel is amazing. And I learnt it from you a long time back
I have the SVS ultra center and I placed it behind my tv facing upward about 45 degrees and it defys logic how it can project voice and sound virtually through my Lg 79 inch led tv. The dialogue sounds like it coming directly from the actors mouth. I doubt that any under powered budget center could even compare to how well the SVS Ultra Center performs! If you can pull your tv out far enough, place your center speaker facing up on a bookshelf you may be amazed! It even does well with 5 channel stereo.
Thank you very very much Z Reviews for this Video. i have the Harman Kardon hkts 16 5.1 System and the Center sounds very crappy. Since 6 months i hear movies with the Speakers in the LG C8 65 Oled tv and not with the Harman Kardon System, because the TV Sounds better. I buyed two days ago the Q Acoustic 3090ci Center Speaker, still it sounds not good. Now i understand everything. The Center do the most job. Maybe this is one of the reason why Soundbars sells so good. Two hours ago i buyed the Polk Audio Signature S35 e, damn. Tomorrow i will send back the new centers and buy me a very good one.
You have ease my mind, I just got into home theater. My left and right speakers are Sony’s SS-MB150H bookshelf. I just bought a Definitive Technology 100 Series Center channel now my system sounds great everything blends in well. Thanks for this video!
Using a phantom center with a modern recover, Audyssey has to be run again with it unplugged. Turning it off does NOT give me the same imaging as listening to music does with my AVR-x7200wa. The imaging is too wide when just turning it off. Audyseey has to be run with the speaker unplugged.
Dave B. How can the imaging be to wide ? A big and airy soundstage is what everybody wants right !? Listing music with a receiver will never be as satisfying as on a good stereo. One of the main reasons is the cheapass dacs are used in the AVR’s
Nick van Kreij easy, when a person’s head is in the middle of the screen, but his voice is not in the center but takes 2/3 of the 65” screen. Or worse, the voice from the head in the center of the screen is spread across 7 feet in front of me. Where as in playing music in stereo mode, you can close your eyes and point to where the singer is. With very well produced music like Norah Jones, you can affect the size of her mouth by adjusting the toe of your mains. Well produced music almost wraps around you with what sounds like surround sound, but it’s just stereo. Tool - Chocolate Chip Trip is one of my reference songs. It is VERY wide, you can hear each drum and cymbal.
I would love to see you review Ascend Acoustics Sierra Horizon to see how you like it.
Your neighbours must love you unconditionally ;)
My neighbors are businesses. And they are not in after 6 or when Covid exists.
dude his neighbor is that smoking hot eastern block gal.
Where's the HSU CCB-8 for the Center Channel list? Thought that was the Center Channel to "Rule them All".
FFF. I remember that now. Its been years.
@@ZReviews Haha, had to bring it up when I didn't see it on the list cause my brother got it for his home theater setup after I showed him your video on it. lol. He loves it, sounds incredible.
No center is the best center of you sit in the middle.
Phantom center and a sub for a smaller room is more than enough for film and music.
You should review the Emotiva Airmotiv C2+ when you get a chance. I have the original C2 and its definitely the best center I've heard for the price ($399). It is pretty huge though so be prepared to make room if you review it. I also have the rest of the line up (T2, E2, E1) and for the price they can't be beat. My Def Tech speakers that cost twice as much don't sound as good.
You need to take a look at the off axis sound from the speakers!!!!
Zeos ok if i get a pair of the ohm walsh 2000 will i need a center ? My room is 13ft long 10ft wide 7ft ceiling also its treated what do you think?
This video is very misleading. (Unintentionally, I'm sure, so no hate!) The fact that you can't hear people talking, guns cocking, keyboards tapping, etc. when you have your center unplugged in this video is because you have your receiver's settings configured with the center audio information of the surround signal going to the center channel (and therefore it's removing the center audio information from the front left and right speakers). If someone isn't using a center speaker, they should have their receiver set accordingly. In which case, the center audio information isn't going to be removed from the front left and right channels, and you won't get the problem you're describing in this non-real-world scenario. That's not to say perhaps a great center channel speaker doesn't give more clarity, focus and definition to the main action when used. And that's not to say that the overall surround experience doesn't have *more* dimension when a center is (properly) used. However, no center speaker is better than a terrible-quality center speaker all day long (I know this hands-down from experience). Plus, even great budget surround receivers out today have a myriad of settings and acoustic measurements available to tailor the sound and get a big, rich, present, focused sound for the main action in movies, even without a center speaker present and/or enabled. I just want any consumers seeing this video to understand that you basically either (A) didn't know what you were doing or (B) innocently forgot to let your surround sound system know (through settings) that the center channel was disconnected so it could respond accordingly. That or you got an offer on a surround sound system you're selling and the potential buyer said they wanted everything but the center speaker and wanted a discount as a result, so you made this (in that case, intentionally-misleading) video to "sell" them on the importance of a center channel so they'd buy the entire package including the center. Idk which of those was true and I don't wanna assume the worst here. Just please be careful when you post videos to do so accurately so you don't throw people off and have them spending extra money on something they don't necessarily need, but may benefit from somewhat. A center channel might enhance the experience, but the lack of one is nowhere near the dealbreaker for a good sound that you've presented it to be here.
Yes I was simply showing what the center IS responsible for when it is in use. If you go phantom none of the sounds are lost, BUT if you do go with a center you must size / price it accordingly .
What center would you recommend out of these?
ELAC Debut 2.0 C6.2
ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UC52
SVS Prime Center
Klipsch RP-450C
Klipsch RP-504C
Have you tested the Sound Labs center channel? If so, what do you think of it?
No way. The Ramble is what is needed. You built this channel on YOU. The ramble you put forth is why I continue to watch. Love the 5.1 music reference. Have a shelf of nothing but SACD, DVD-A, and DTS. all in 5.1 Thanks again.
I know you cannot list them all, but I HIGHLY recommend the GoldenEar Reference Center Channel....I added it to my home theater last week, and WOW! I usually wouldn’t spend that much, but I got a decent deal, so why not? Exp3ct to pay around $1400.00 - $1500.00 MAX. Anything higher, and I would recommend finding a new dealer.
I have Dali Epicon 6 left and right and the matching Vokal Centre. Even tho the Vokal has the same drive units as the floor standing 6’s it doesn’t sound as good, smaller cabinet and it’s placed low under the tv but pointing up 15 degrees towards the listening position... best case scenario is three identical speakers for LCR it’s a shame that most people can’t accommodate it.