Reylo in The Last Jedi | Why their story is not over
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2024
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In this episode Lee and Denise analyse Rey and Kylo Ren's dynamics from the point when they start to drift apart in The Last Jedi. We look at Kylo's proposal and Rey's refusal, and the characters' motivations in that scene. We also look at the interactions on Crait and the much discussed final closed door of the Millennium Falcon. We comment on signs pointing at Kylo's redemption arc, and why Rey and Kylo's story is not over yet. Lastly, we comment on the reception of Reylo by the media, by the fandom and the haters.
You can find this discussion's companion video here:
Rey and Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi: Sex and Force Bonds
• Reylo in The Last Jedi
Stay tuned for more Reylo and TLJ discussion coming soon!
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Friendly reminder though that Rey said she was "nobody" before he did. He's simply saying allowed what she's thinking but then disavows it with "but not to me". Rian also clarified that it was Kylo's (bad) attempt to connect with Rey because he too feels abandoned.
I agree. People saying it was abusive are ridiculous. He’s freaking Kylo Ren. He’s not a gentleman. He’s been apprenticed to Snoke for years. I think coming from him it was raw and honest, an attempt to show her how he feels.
REYLO is definitely going to happen "DON'T BE AFRAID - I FEEL IT TOO"
RATNA ROY same
RATNA ROY im not afraid, im angry,fulled by hatred,but also maniacally laughing
Meeeeowwwwww. Can’t wait.
I just don't understand why people are afraid that Reylo is destroyed. The cast of the sequel trilogy has already made mischievous comments concerning the couple, they've been getting interesting merchandise together, and during the movie, it was obvious that Kylo wanted Rey by his side. Even when he finally killed Snoke (a bit anti-climactic ending for such an enigmatic villain), took control, and had everything he thought he wanted, he doesn't look satisfied, because despite everything, Rey refused him. He can't have her, and it's clearly upsetting for Kylo.
What stood out to me in particular is how weak Kylo looked at the end of The Last Jedi. He's won, he's the boss now, he's in control, but he didn't appear to be any of those things. He looked uncertain and indecisive about his next move. That isn't the kind of behavior that a triumphant, satisfied person displays. Kylo obviously wants something more.
Gretel - he sure does!
Gretel My thoughts exactly! He doesn’t have all he wanted because what he really wanted was Rey. He just didn’t realize it until he screwed it up. It’s so obvious in his face at the end right when she shuts the door.
Yup, he looks so distressed..."I done screwed up" was written all over his expression.
Gregory B Darth bullshit is that you ?
He wants something only Rey can give him. Only she can fulfill his needs. And doesn't that speak wonders of how he has been feeling about her outside of the script?
The third time I went to see TLJ I went with my 18 year old niece, it was her first time seeing it. When Kylo asked Rey to join him, my niece looked at me and smiled and said, "OMG It's like Anakin and Padme on Mustafar." Was pretty cute to see how happy it made her. It reminded me of how happy AOTC made me when I first saw it and I was only 13 at the time. It was nice to experience that with my niece who is a Star Wars nerd that I created. lol Now she is all about Reylo and Kylo Ren has become her favorite Star Wars character. Anakin had always been her favorite as he is for me as well, so I am shocked that Kylo eclipsed Anakin for her, but think it shows how much this movie made people love Kylo.
My best friend thought I was crazy when I said I shipped Reylo. Now after TLJ she loves them together.
Teah Zelo yessss yesss. ;)
I think that in the throne room scene Ben is able to trick Snoke and kill him, even though Snoke is his master and can read his mind because, in that moment, Ben was not thinking with his mind, but instead with his heart
*melts*
Holy S*** 🤯
Awwww. YES.
Bruna Lopes , are we calling genitals " hearts" now ?
On the point about Rey being “cool” after she shuts the door on Ben, I think Rey uses her optimism and cheerfulness as a defense mechanism. There are moments when we can see her true self and she’s not bubbly and happy like she pretends to be. She’s quite sad. Her parents gave her away. Anyone would be sad. Her cheerful persona is a mirror of Ben’s persona: Kylo Ren. In their more intimate scenes together, we see their true selves come out. Also, I think Rey was happy that Poe knew her name. She’s a nobody, as proclaimed by herself. It’s probably a shock that someone would know her name and associate it with good things.
Julia Crawford hey you
I find interesting that Adam Driver didn´t even have to audition for Kylo. JJ Abrams wanted him or him. It is interesting because Driver is a good actor, one who can carry forward a complex, changing character. It seems that in the last movie we will have more of conflicted Kylo
I didn't know that, it's so interesting.
I'm so happy for Reylo! It is the best thing about this trilogy. Some people are upset about the movie because they think that there is no overarching plot or they keep changing directions with it. But Reylo is the A-plot, and they've been pretty damn consistent with that.
Pride!Ed from BBI/BBR join me and together we will wipe them out, all of them
Pride!Ed from BBI/BBR, except romance is actually one of the main reasons in Star Wars. I thought it wasn't but that was Lucas's idea since the creation to his original Star Wars.
I think the best summation of the story so far, is the last scene as Kylo Ren is holding the dice. They represent his past and, really, the worst thing he did (killing his father.) He didn't throw them away or violently clench them. He gently, almost tenderly closes his hand over them and they disappeared. He has lost so much, culminating in Rey just closing the door on him. The sadness of that moment is beautiful.
Both Kylo and Rey wear "masks" when they are surrounded by their comrades. They reveal their true selves only to each other. Rey's mask is cheerfulness. In re: her meeting with Poe, that exact scene happens in the novelization for The Force Awakens. Why they put it in The Last Jedi, why knows?
My son loved Last Jedi and asked me: hey, why doesn’t Rey rule with Ben and they don’t have to be evil tyrant like Snoke? My darling brilliant son 😇💕 Love your vids and discussion! I can’t wait for episode IX!!!!!! Stay on target Kathleen Kennedy, Lucasfilm, Disney!
elsaandnoah
“Truly wonderful the mind of a child is.”
- Yoda
I agree with your child
J G seems like Yoda was right
elsaandnoah 8
REALLY??? Stay on target...? No. Star Wars was ruined by Kennedy, her girl club and Rian (I will do it Kathleen) Kennedy.... It's not even great that your son loved it. One day when he is old enough to understand what Disney has done to Star Wars, then...and only then he will know that it's garbage. Disney Princess Frick'n Flying Fairy Space Leia... So stupid. If anyone likes this movie at all, you're all off target.
Rey: “I NEED SOMEONE” to show me my place in all this. Kylo/Ben: You had no place in this story. You come from nothing. You are nothing, BUT NOT to ME. He is that SOMEONE she was looking for. Her place is by his side, like he said “when the time comes, you’ll be the one to turn. YOU’LL STAND With ME.” (Sorry for my bad English) but I believe the visions they had of each other is their future in episode 9.
Bearry Small Toys they both will turn to middle once they understand what's needed
Bearry Small Toys
Wow! Best explanation ever!
Love it so much! ❤️🎊🎉
I really hope that Ben and Rey will be together! 🙏
Darth Darcy... snickers... love it.
Perhaps the broken kyber crystal represents the broken heart of the Force when Ben and Rey cannot reconcile their differences in that moment.
Or is representative of how broken Kylo/Ben is and that it is going to take some healing, maybe a lot until he can get his head together. That is a good analogy.
Gregory B Orange Elite 37 standing by
Gregory B
Nice symbol. It is Yin Yiang.
Ben is the dark with a light inside while Rey is the Light outside but dark inside.
She is too fast empowered with no reason, either it is the faster Dark path (Yoda bewared Luke about it in ESB, faster but not more powerful) or she is a genuine Mary Sue made that way for script reason.
Christian A uhh no she’s not a mary sur
Was it actually broken? I’ve watched TLJ three times now, and the last two times I watched the section carefully. The scene flashes by so quickly, but the Kyber crystal doesn’t appear to actually be broken. The casing is broken, but the crystal appears intact.
I am proud to say that I am now a huge fan of Reylo.
TheAnimekitty13 welcome to the family
TheAnimekitty13 👏👏🙁
ayyyy welcome to the reylo fam, m8
TheAnimekitty13 welcome to the club
TheAnimekitty13 welcome to the fam!
YASSSSS! Finally someone said it! Thank you! I hate it that people are obsessing about Ben being a jerk/abusive and putting all the blame on the falling out on him when Rey clearly had a part in it to. She cant' say no, so she grabs the light saber?!? Really now girl? What exactly are you planning to do with that? Are you going to kill Ben or use force on him so that he will save your 'friends', people you just met a week ago?!? I mean arrrgggh...I was equally frustrated with both of them. But most specially Rey, her first instinct is negative. She didn't want to actually try to talk to him and just went for the kill. She's been able to see so much about him through their connection and yet she still assumed the worst in him.
I am so upset with them both too. She got mad at Luke for assuming Ben had gone to the dark side and even said that Ben hadn't decided yet. Although at the time in the throne room she is physically crying because she thought he had decided, she didn't really give him a chance to explain. He said no Jedi, sith, first order, etc he wanted to start all new. Ben's choice of words, although not to really make her think she was nothing, was poorly chosen. He said those things in order to "show" her that they were the same. They BOTH went about the scene wrong. I'm happy, in a way, that it ended the way it did since I want Ben to come back on his own and not just because Rey asked him to. He needs to understand his actions are wrong and do something about them in IX.
Many a marriage started that way with each hating what the other did.
Meh, her friends were getting killed. Every minute was of the essence. She wanted out of there asap and she wanted her lightsaber back.
Consider her upbringing though. She's spent the majority of her life in an every-man-for-himself situation. She's known nothing but fighting for survival for years. I think her brain just automatically went straight to "must arm self" mode before she really knew what she wanted to do. I think both of them weren't entirely sure what their plan was in that situation. The one thing either of them were even remotely sure about was that they didn't want to leave the other.
Thanks for another great podcast! About the "You come from nothing. You're nothing" line from Kylo, I never got the impression he meant it to be cruel or to be manipulative. His delivery is very calm and non-aggressive. I think he means it to come across as "you're not bound to a legacy. You don't have to be somedoby important in order to be somebody important to me." I don't think he lied to her once or was in any way abusive to her throughout the whole movie.
Buuuut Kylo being emotionally twisted like a pretzel, the words he used weren't exactly the best.
I definitely think there is hope for these two in ep 9. She had to shut the door on him, but their bond is still there and it'll roar back to life next film.
I think were2in for a few surprises with Hux. There is no way he is going to allow Kylo to retain control of his army any longer than necessary. He's going to find out somehow that Kylo, not Rey, killed Snoke. He'll use that to turn the FO against Kylo, maybe even the Knights of Ren. Hux is sadistic enough and certainly intelligent enough to concoct a plan to seize power back from Kylo and have him arrested and likely tortured. If Hux can find a way to neutralize Kylo's ability with the Force, he could really mess him up...until Rey shows up to save him.❤💞💕
The Knights of Ren make a lot of sense as potential antagonists. If Hux can forge an alliance with one of them, assuming they are Luke's other students, then there could be a force related threat to Kylo in IX. Being darkside force users, there might be a lot of competition and jockeying for position amongst the Knights of Ren, which Hux could exploit. I think the betrayal of the Knights of Ren, or at least some of them, could be an interesting catalyst to further self-reflection for Kylo, since they have been with him from the beginning and followed him after the destruction of the Jedi academy. It would also be like a mirror image to the loyalty shown by Rey and her friends to one another.
I think Rey will show up to save Kylo from Hux's betrayal too
Yaaaaaaaaaas
MAZ says while giving the LIGHTSABER to REY "THE BELONGING YOU SEEK IS NOT BEHIND.... IT IS AHEAD" I think this says all and gives us the HOPE for EPISODE 9.😍😍😍
The Spark of Hope
Correct! Star Wars 9 : The Spark of Hope. It ends up being a Romeo and Juliet story set in space a long time ago and far far away.
RATNA ROY She also says that the ones Rey is waiting for on Jakku are never coming back, but “there is someone who still could.”
Or Maz was talking about the belonging being in the resistance and the person that might come back is Luke. I would be disappointed if that was true.
I think that makes it too obvious JM... Hollywood is all about twists and misdirection now... Just like the elevator scene where they both see each other standing together...(the praetorian fight?) or is that further in the future?
I don't think kylo Ren knows how to express his feelings to Ray without scaring her
Beverly Clobes NO!..... Really?!
Ah. I think you've brought up a great point.
Beverly Clobes omg you are right (10000000000% sarcasm) *thinks* they touch hands, shirtless scene.... umm ....
Well, maybe he doesn't know how to verbally confess her feelings to her. Physical expressions of love are different, you just "flow" with the moment.
Love This! I have been saying there was sexual tension since the Force Awakens and there was a connection between Keylo and Rey. I could not understand how people could NOT see that. Glad to hear your point of view!
I've noticed that younger, less experienced viewers totally missed the sexual tension in TFA and understandably can't see what we saw in rey and Kylo scenes. Meaning, those without sexual experience who can't read Adam Driver's nuanced, dominant and charged performance and they can't place Rey's heavy breathing, quivering and straining - simply bc sexuality isn't part of their experience yet in life. I always thought I was somehow dirty minded or too sexually aware - but now I realize it's all there - it's on purpose and it's below the radar of those people who aren't familiar with sexuality yet.
As someone who did film studies, the sexual imagery in those Reylo scenes stood out like a sore thumb to me. I'm highly certain that's exactly what Rian Johnson was aiming for, given that journalists have written articles pointing out the same observations of those Reylo scenes.
This is very true. Snoke himself couldn't even decipher what was really going on between these two. In a way he's very much like those viewers.
I am only 15 and I don't have anything sexual or plan to have anything sexual in my life. But I defiantly can see the romance between them and the foreshadowing of their relationship. ( I've watched enough movie's to know how they portray a building romance)
I could listen to you discuss Reylo forever! Another amazing insightful video :) It’s great to hear others as captivated by this pairing as I am, I’ve literally filled up half a notebook writing ep 8 analyses & ep 9 theories.
Kylo is nothing but posturing when he clams he’ll kill Rey, we all know he’s never been able to do so and never will. It reminds me of a quote form The Princess Bride, when Westley tells Inigo (after duelling and finding themselves equally matched): ‘I would sooner destroy a stained glass window than an artist like yourself’. I know Reylo goes deeper than that, but they do have an immense respect for each other as well as compassion and understanding.
It’s a tribute to the beautiful writing and performances that we totally understand why these two characters decide the way they do after the throne room battle, they care so deeply but they have completely different pasts and POVs. What a time t be alive!
I love she calls him Ben and he’s like “yes”?
I was worried about the reaction to Reylo by the general audience also but I think most people like it and are ok with romance in SW in general. There were big romances in both the OT and the PT after all. Han and Leia - everyone loves them. The PT Anakin/Padme pairing suffered from some bad writing and they didn’t have a lot of chemistry but Reylo does not have that problem thankfully. 😍
Thank y’all for another great video.
Yes. Reylo does *NOT* have that problem. Not in the slightest. And I love it.
When they saw each other for the last time Anakin Skywalker told Padme: "Love won't save you, only my new power can". I suppose the storyline goes into the reverse direction with Rey and Ben - they started as mortal enemies, they will end up as soulmates (if not to say 'lovers'). Watching "TFA" and "TLJ" for the next time and reading "TFA" novelization by A.D. Foster, I simply have no doubt that these two belong together :)
"We're not done yet" Kylo Ren the force awakens, THEY ARE NOT DONE YET!!!!!!!! They need the drama and suspense they will work out in 9!!!!!!! Hopefully otherwise I don't know what I'll do with my life 😭
I think Reylo = Prime Jedi
Kylo is black and Rey is white. Together they bring balance and together they embody the power and spirit of the prime jedi.
Dan McGovern yin and yang
I totally agree!!
Don't give them any good ideas. They have J.J. Abrams to write this SW9 Romeo and Juliet movie!
absolutely agree
I will bear Ben the future Solo twins. Best believe that.
My future waifu :') I miss you.
I’m loving all your videos! Just found them a few days ago! I just hopped on the Reylo train after TLJ. I didn’t see it heading that way after TFA but after I watched it again after seeing TLJ, I don’t know how I missed the Kylo and Rey connection the first time. I really hope they expand on the connection between these two in the last movie. The emphasis on the force balance seems to me to make it pretty obvious they will head in the direction of Kylo and Rey coming together. I just can’t see Kylo as the big bad who will die with no redemption at the end. Even Luke said to Leia, “No one is ever really gone.” I can’t see Rey completely giving up yet on Ben either. Her look at him at the end wasn’t one of closing the book on him, it was still one of uncertainty I think. I have just seen so many reviews saying the Reylo chapter is over and Rey shut the door on him for good at the end of TLJ, but I don’t think that’s true. I think they are all in for a big surprise. Otherwise why would they emphasize the balance, yin and yang, force connection if nothing came of it? Rey killing Kylo would be such a lame ending. If one of them dies I don’t see there being balance because they balance each other out. The darkness still rose again after Vader died, so if Rey just kills Kylo, it will cause it to rise again in another way.
I will cross the galaxy for Rey and her only. Unblock me from Forcetime, please Rey...
Poor Kylo
Oh Ben, stop playing being edgelord and come join me to balance the force.
Kylo Ren, tell Rey how you feel about her and reconcile your differences with your Uncle Luke and become a Jedi!
Give her time, Kylo. She'll come around, also she might just have bad reception where she is.
As for the events on Crait when Ben orders the First Order forces to destroy the Millennium Falcon and later tells Luke he will destroy Rey, I don't think these events are actually as they superficially appear. Every time Ben senses Rey through the Force, he does so in a moment of calm or introspection - when he is sitting having his scars healed, walking down a corridor, standing looking at the First Order forces assembling in a landing bay through a viewing window, or at ease (and half undressed) in his private quarters. It doesn't happen when he is in a state of rage or extreme emotional agitation. When he orders the Tie fighters to engage the Falcon, he is not in the right mindset to sense Rey, and similarly is not able to sense his mother in the Resistance Base for the same reason. His emotional state is wrong. It is only after the Resistance Base has been breached and it is clear that the Resistance Fighters have fled that Ben becomes calm enough to once again connect to Rey.
When he tells Luke he will destroy Rey, that could just be a fleeting moment of rage and bitterness (see how his understanding of 'destroy Rey' seems to translate in practice into 'make sad puppy dog eyes at her'), or a spectacularly ineffective attempt to convince himself he isn't bound to her, but I favour another explanation. Consider who he says this to. He isn't speaking to Rey herself, or to Leia - he is talking to Luke, a man who Ben still sees as a ruthless fanatic who is so far gone he tried to kill his own nephew in his sleep in the name of his beliefs. A violent, dangerously unstable hypocrite who talks about compassion and the Light while harbouring murder in his heart. Ben strongly implied to Rey earlier in the movie that Luke could be a threat to her, and that Luke tried to kill him for having the same power Rey herself possesses. As I have noted elsewhere, Ben doesn't lie to Rey, so I think he honestly believes that Luke is a threat to her. Bearing that in mind, the last thing he would want to do is tip his hand to Luke about how much Rey really means to him, since Ben firmly believes that Luke is ruthless enough to use that knowledge against him and harm or even kill Rey in the process. So far as Ben is concerned, it is far safer for Rey if Luke thinks that Ben viewers her as his mortal enemy (not that Luke is fooled for a minute, Adam Driver's performance is masterfully executed to convey that Ben is still hopeless at lying), and he loses nothing by that deceit, since the Resistance already sees him as a monster, and Rey has left him of her own volition. In a roundabout sort of way, this might actually be a selfless act.
You write the best comments... I agree with every word. You really understand Kylo and I love it
Well, you know, one tries...
Remember Gregory - ego-centrism is a path to the Dark Side. Ego leads to arrogance. Arrogance leads to a swollen head. A swollen head leads to getting that head stuck in these narrow intertubes. One's head being stuck in the narrow intertubes leads to suffering... and the embarrassment of having to get someone to help you pull it free. :-)
Also, I actually think having Hux be so terribly embarrassed by how Kylo treated him, tossing him around like rag doll, is a perfect set-up for Hux to become the Big Bad. He has very, very good reasons, even aside from Kylo being an emotionally driven leader, to push Kylo out of power. He now has more personal reasons. And as much as they played him the fool in TLJ, they also clearly showed how much he resented it each and every time.
I think the psychological interpretation really clears up that scene. What he's doing is projecting his own insecurities onto her, he's saying that's he's afraid that he is nothing, and begging her to tell him that he's important to her. That "Please" breaks my heart every time!
I think the moment when the fight scene ends and he is staring at her and walking to her, I was fully expecting a kiss. And I honestly think it could’ve happened, had she not started to talk about the resistance. I think it showed just how uncomfortable Rey is with intimacy still and how inexperienced she is.
Jessica Landes yes, her inexperience with relationship or love can also be seen as she didn’t like it when Finn kept taking/holding her hand when they were fleeing the troopers on Jakku and awkwardly or shyly looks away when Luke was milking the sea-creature thingy, cos that was like an intimate moment she intruded on. Plus she just transitioned from being all alone to being surrounded by group of resistance or her personal space invaded by Kylo Ren.
I viewed the dice as a metaphor for Rey and Kylo themselves. The dice representing them and the chain representing their Force Bond. The dice disappearing in Kylo's hand shows that he had what he wanted in the palm of his hand the whole time but let it slip away by being a selfish dick. It's also ironic that the dice belonged to his dad so it drives the pain even deeper into him. What do you all think about Episode IX's codename being "Black Diamond?" If you are familiar with what a black diamond normally symbolizes, it is very exciting for Reylo fans.
Zach Hambelton WOW! I just looked it up! I can’t believe they would use that name since it basically says what the last movie will be about! Unless they are trying to throw us...
Sorry could you explain what black diamond is
@Zach Hambelton Very insightful perspective concerning the symbolism of the dice and to Reylo. It's logical and very likely the case. I'll go one step further in terms of Ben thing. Rey's lightsaber aka the Skywalker lightsaber belongs to Ben. When all was said and done, we find out the broken Skywalker lightsaber, remains with Rey. I believe part of that reason for that, Rey will be a Skywalker by marriage. Foreshadowing the lightsaber will return to Ben Solo someday soon. Lastly, "Black Diamond." When I heard JJ announced his working title for episode 9, I got kinda choked up about it. Reason being, I know the Sicilian folklore for black diamonds
And what is it symbolizes?
MsKoki57 black diamond myth from Italy (I think) was that the diamond represented reconciliation between 2 warring lovers after touching the stone
Ahhhhhh this was so good. i heart you girls. i could listen to you two talk about reylo all day. so smart and logical and so funny at the same time. i love it! thanks so so much for your time and effort!
Thanks so much, Carlita!
I don't think Kylo is abusive telling Rey that she is nobody, I think he is cold when he speaks because he were separated from his parents when he was very young, in consecuence he didn't have an example of how to treat a woman or a love interest, when we are children the example that we imitate is our parents, And he did't have them so It's normal that he treat Rey like that, he doesn't know how to express his feelings
Karen Mohar Kylux is definitely the abuse relationship now after TLJ
Nothing to her parents, something to him.
That is what I interpreted.
I wasn’t Reylo until after TLJ and I love how you well you two can put the movie into words and explain what’s happening so well it’s great!!
guys seriously thank you, that's the girls star wars reylo talks that I desperately needed. The videos are very detailed and smart, please keep going! And I cracked and giggled a lot at your comments
I think Kylo doesn’t sense his mom because he thinks that she died in the explosion. Leia thinks that he is too far gone so she doesn’t reach out to him either.
This is exactly what I think. When Kylo was giving his speech to Rey in the throne room "you're still holding on, let go" - this was basically his way of saying, "I have nothing to go back for. I killed my father, my Uncle turned against me, and my mother's gone, too." There's no evidence that suggests Kylo knows Leia is still alive by the end of TLJ. People are just assuming that he knows... But he SAW her ship explode. He'll believe the worst.
I've thought since seeing TLJ that he didn't realise Leia survived the attack on the bridge. I'm so gutted we won't get to see Kylo/Ben & Leia reconnect in lX since they're probably going to have to write her out now... R.I.P Carrie
On top of that does Leia think kylo was the one who shot at the bridge of the ship??? Worst case scenario Leia thinks Kylo tried to kill her and Kylo thinks Leia is dead...Eek!
I think them making Hux so submissive and comedic in this film was on purpose because it's all this negative energy and suspicion building up in him so as to totally make him hit his last straw. Domnhall Gleeson said himself that Hux probably had to slit a few throats to get to his position, so I think the films have done this on purpose so that him becoming the ultimate bad guy next film really hits you. Because that last look he gives Kylo in TLJ says it all. While Snoke was the powerful dark sider/force user and Kylo the emotional knight who has really only been motivated by his personal issues, Hux is the true example of the First Order and the evil that lies behind it. I think the scene that will most inform what Hux will be like in Ep. 9 is from TFA when he's doing his Hitler-esque speech to the troops. Also, Hux becoming the big bad would also thematically go well after TLJ because Snoke called him a mindless pawn type that he could just manipulate. But in Kylo successfully betraying and killing his master, I think it'd make sense to go with this theme and play with/against our expectations. It would also I think set up the path for Kylo's redemption more easily. Hux is just too dark and ruthless of a character. In terms of the force sensitive bad guy, I think this will be where the Knights of Ren will come into play.
Christina Cano I’m with you that I think Hux will be the big bad. I just can’t ignore the looks Hux kept throwing Kylo’s way when he was knocked out and when he was kneeling and looking at the dice and Rey. They have pitted him as Kylo’s rival up to this point for Snoke’s approval. And now Snoke is gone... I just want to see how they would deal with Hux not being a force user. Maybe he will convince the Knights of Ren to join him when he reveals that Kylo killed Snoke?
Agreed. Hux will attempt an overthrow early in 9. His grounds are high treason. If the Jedi temple in ep3 had recordings, the throne room of the Capitol Ship of the first order surely has the same. He will know EXACTLY how things went down. If Kylo can’t curb Snoke’s rabid dog, it will try to kill him. They are now both unleashed and there will be a power struggle.
I really think there is a possibility he is the real Snoke.
Yes, General Hux is the true spirit of the old Empire and the new First Order! He will restore the Sith legacy!
(In character, so you know :))
I agree that he will never be able to hurt her. Besides, they can touch through the bond - if he really wanted to hurt her, he could have charged towards her and tried to kill her before their last connection ended.
Can we be friends in real life? I wish I could talk to my friends about Reylo the way you ladies talk about it
same, none of my real life friends is interested in these kind of things
"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined jedi sight."
--journal of the whills, 7:477
This is the roadmap of the trilogy! Quote found at the beginning of force awakens novel. We are in the darkness at the end of 8 but their differences WILL be resolved!
moraganmoes the grey force
So 1st episode abt Rey (light)
Then comes 2nd episode about kylo (know/ night darkness) soooo episode 9 is both ..reylo forever together make grey jedi
I saw this quote and thought the same--Rey will refine Ben. And as the movie went on, her clothing went from off-white tones to more gray.
Reylo is gonna happen, I can feel it in my bones. They will bring balance to the force and the galaxy.
I am going with the fan theory (can’t remember who said it), that Ben’s journey is the opposite/reverse of Anakin.
Anakin gave up love (Padme) for power (Vader). Ben would eventually give up power (Kylo Ren) for love (Rey).
Personally, I also think Rey might turn to the Dark Side.
I just got into an argument online today with someone trying to tell me how abusive Kylo is and how he is gaslighting Rey. No matter what I said, they kept calling the ship "gross." Ugh why do I even try. So happy to watch this video ❤️ you guys are great!
You guys are making me so much better! This is just what I needed today after the conversation I had.
With regard to Ben Solo's 'Mr Darcy moment' in the Throne room, I don't see it as an attempted manipulation, still less an abusive act of gas lighting. Ben/Kylo Ren isn't together enough most of the time to manipulate anyone, being much more inclined to allow his unfocused rage to manifest as a destructive tantrum that presents clear and present danger to all nearby technology. The only time we see him calm and calculated enough to pull off some sophisticated misdirection is when he kills Snoke by allowing Snoke's arrogance to cause him to misconstrue Ben's intent, and the only reason Ben is able to do that is because the stakes are so high. Rey's life is on the line, and he knows that he only has one shot to save her. If he fouls it up, she dies. Without motivation like that, he is at best an inadequate liar. Look at how he deals with Hux's doubts over Snoke's death - brute intimidation is favoured over any attempt at complex deceit.
And for all his flaws, he doesn't lie to Rey at all at any other point in either The Last Jedi or The Force Awakens. Although his perspective is terribly warped and distorted, he always tells her the truth as he understands it.
Bearing all that in mind, I think that the throne room exchange can be viewed from a couple of different angles. On one level, it is a heinously incompetent proposal of sorts, one that earns him the nickname Darth Darcy. He is really, really bad at expressing what he feels, but that doesn't make him abusive in and of itself.
On another level, it can be read as him feeling such a profound bond to Rey that he is beginning to project some of his own emotions and feelings onto her. Think of the particular words he uses when he says "You have no place in this story. You come from nothing. You're nothing. But not to me". Pretty much all of that could apply to Ben as much as to Rey.
He has no place in the story of the Solo and Skywalker/Organa families. His parent's greatest triumphs occurred before he was born but have existed as a shadow over him all his life. His whole existence has been as an adjunct to the legend of his famous relatives, and no one has truly seen him as simply Ben in years before Rey comes along.
Similarly, in his mind, he himself is effectively nothing. For all that his family and bloodline are storied, he feels that all his relatives have rejected him and cast him away the same way he believes Rey was cast away. His father is effectively a deadbeat dad who ran away from his responsibilities and back to the smuggler's life when Ben's Force sensitivity came to light, only coming back many years later in a fashion that is rather worse than a day late and a dollar short. His mother tried to help him, but from his perspective she was barely there most of the time, more invested in rebuilding the Republic. She was faced with choosing between her public life as a politician and general, and her role as a mother, and to Ben it looks as though she rejected him in the name of her public persona when she sent him to Luke, a second rejection and abandonment to compound the first. And of course we know that Luke did far worse. In Ben's eyes, his own Uncle tried to murder him in his sleep, and what more comprehensive familial rejection can there be than that? He believes that every single member of his family turned their backs on him in one way or another, leaving him with nowhere to go and no one to turn to but Snoke, a monster in the truest sense of the term who has constantly abused him ever since. When Rey calls Ben a monster he agrees because that is how he honestly views himself - as an abomination so unworthy of love that every member of his own family turned from him in revulsion. And that brings us to 'but not to me', because that is his hope in Rey - that she doesn't see him as worthless or a monster as he believes everyone else does. She first met him when he was at his nadir, when he killed his own father in front of her and wore an outfit calculated to give him the most inhuman and intimidating appearance possible, and yet she still travelled to the Supremacy believing that he was worth trying to save.
Unfortunately, Ben is yet to take more than his first, faltering footsteps on the rocky path of redemption. He is ultimately still a Dark Side character who is ruled by his passions and thinks first of himself and Rey, whereas Rey is still close to the Light Side, and so puts notions of the greater good first to the extent of not being readily able to consider anything else. They can't be together until both of them move more toward a position of balance as Grey Jedi.
Another masterpiece of commentary, thank you for your insights!!!
At the risk of sounding horribly conceited psy-kylo-gy, I read a lot of science fiction, fantasy fiction and historical epic fiction, and all I am doing is following the ques the writers are pretty clearly laying down for the audience. In this story arc, the critical narrative fulcrum is obviously the relationship between the characters of Rey and Ben Solo. This isn't even anything to do with the shipping phenomenon (though the actors in question do have wonderful screen chemistry and a rather sweet off screen friendship), all the necessary pointers and tells are contained within the character dialogue, the narrative choices made by the writers and directors of the various movies, and the numerous allusions made to works of classic period fiction such as Pride and Prejudice, and to more modern iconic works like Beauty and the Beast.
It is pretty hard to miss moments like Rose telling Finn that 'we win by fighting to save what we love, not destroy what we hate', and Luke telling Leia that 'no one is ever really gone', both interspersed with, or immediately followed by, images of the Ben Solo character. It is made even more clear when the last we see of Ben is him kneeling in the dust and salt of Crait, tears running down his face, looking for all the world like a man who has lost everything that matters to him because Rey has left. There is no anger in his face when he looks at her, no trace of the intent to destroy her he stated to Luke, just the devastating loss and the self loathing of a man who knows he is the author of his own undoing.
In theory, he has everything he wants. Sure, the Resistance is not destroyed but as of that moment it is a ragged shadow of its former strength, Luke (who Ben hated as the man who betrayed him) is gone, Snoke (the monster who abused Ben for years) is dead, and Kylo Ren is now the Supreme Leader of the First Order. On the surface, he won. But he doesn't look like a man who won anything. He looks like a man who is only just realising the full extent of his folly. That power and dominion are worth less than nothing if you don't have the only person you have ever loved by your side. Even without dialogue, Adam Driver's mastery of face acting techniques conveys much.
And Daisy Ridley is no less skilled in this regard. From Rey's side of the equation, we don't see anger in her face either. We see disappointment and a woman steeling herself to walk away from a man she wants to help, but knows she can't help until he takes the first step for himself. When she meets Poe for the first time, we see her seeming to be OK, but that is clearly an emotional mask not all that different from Ben's physical mask. He hid behind its cold plastic and metal, and she hides behind a face that seems to show a happy and carefree exterior, but neither are representations of the real person beneath and both hide pain, as we see when she sits with the two halves of the light sabre in her hands, looking at Finn and Rose's bond with the clear thought in her mind that she could have, and should have, had that herself with Ben. In case that wasn't clear enough, Leia goes to speak to Rey, telling her that she can rebuild the broken light sabre, that she has all the pieces (and the way the late, great Carrie Fisher speaks those lines makes it clear that more than the surface meaning is at play). For all that the Light Sabre is a very powerful weapon and once belonged to Anakin and Luke, it seems doubtful that Rey would be so upset about an object that hasn't been in her possession for long and that she initially didn't even want to touch at all. It is only once you add in the symbolism of the Light Sabre that the interaction starts to make sense. That particular Light Sabre is symbolic of the Skywalker legacy, and that legacy is embodied in the scion of the Skywalker bloodline, Ben. Rey will have to rebuild the light sabre in episode IX, but at the same time she will also be instrumental in repairing that which the sabre ultimately symbolises - both healing the conflict within Ben Solo's character that leaves him so fractured and broken, and in the process repairing the relationship between them that shattered with the sabre on the Supremacy, and doing that will also serve to bring Balance to the Force as Light and Dark are reconciled.
And that particular scene in the Throne Room also carries subtle seeds of hope. When Rey makes a grab for the sabre, what does Ben do? He could have called in the thousands of Storm Troopers aboard the Supremacy and had her killed or overwhelmed and captured, or he could have drawn his own Light Sabre or used the force to grab any of the Praetorian Guard weapons scattered about that can parry light sabres and fought her, risking injury or death to one or both of them in the process in pursuit of power, but he chose neither option. He grabbed the legacy sabre with the Force himself to stop it reaching her, choosing in a heartbeat the option that avoided violent confrontation between them. Not a choice that fits with an irredeemably evil character or someone who wants to cynically manipulate Rey and values her only for her power. Despite the pain her rejection of his offer caused him, he still will not countenance knowingly undertaking a course of action that could bring her to harm. That doesn't exactly code him as a simplistic villain. Then there is the point that In The Force Awakens scene in the snow covered forest the sabre flew past Ben to Rey, and since then Rey has only grown stronger in the Force, and yet this time the sabre is caught between them until it breaks in half. the Force is not choosing sides this time, they are absolutely matched in power, leaving conflict between them wholly inconclusive. Something else is clearly required to resolve the imbalance.
After the sabre breaks and the energy within is explosively released, Rey has ample opportunity to kill an unconscious Ben and destroy the First Order's most powerful warrior, but she doesn't, choosing instead to escape and leave him unharmed. This can be contrasted with Hux half drawing his blaster and clearly intending to kill Ben to assume power himself before Ben wakes up.
The irony is that Ben didn't need to grab the sabre at all. If he had let it go to Rey and dropped his own weapon, what would she have done? She isn't the kind of person to kill him in cold blood. It would have emotionally disarmed her, just as admitting to her that he was a monster in one of their early Force Time sessions did. Then they could have talked a little more and might have been able to work this whole thing out, and acknowledge that both of them have a point. Ben could and should forget about galactic power, try to save the remnants of the Resistance and then leave with Rey, but Rey needs to accept that that choice would not come without consequences of its own. Hux would then be in charge of the First Order, so the threat would still exist. The Resistance is unlikely to just forgive and forget what Ben has done as Kylo Ren, which means he might be signing his own death warrant by going with her. Would she just allow him to die at the hands of the Resistance, betraying him yet again as so many others who should have protected him have betrayed and abandoned him? Probably not, but would she be prepared to fight to protect him? To choose him (as he chose her when he killed Snoke) and fight against the Resistance, perhaps even against her own friends? They would probably wind up on the run from both sides in the war, is she prepared for what that will mean? It wasn't the choice made this time, but it seems certain that the choice will return again for both of them in Episode IX, and perhaps both of them will see what that choice means more clearly when it does.
About that last reply, seems like that's a good reason to make a long comment here. If I try to tell this to the people I know, half of them haven't even watched Star Wars, and the other half doesn't understand the symbolism of this movie, and how the scenes where Ben and Rey aren't featured are still telling us the same story, THEIR story. You could easily find a lot of lessons that other characters want to teach, and apply them to the Rey-Ben arc. Also, the way the scenes are shot, the effects they do with the lights, the atmosphere you get from the mix of each thing making the visuals or, that being the strongest part of it, the expressions and actions we get from both actors; tell us a lot. The words were really important, yes; the conversation makes their relationship grow. But there are subtle things that also need to be considered. Some things are kind of obvious, like the fact that Rey is seemingly heartbroken at the "proposal" because she couldn't bring Ben Solo to the light at this attempt (as he needs to make his choice to save himself), or the way that Kylo was distracted by their last connection, with a face that shows how much he regrets the truth that he's the one who's digging his own grave and Rey decided to reject his offer and run away. As the Supreme Leader he should have confidence, show his strength, feel determined, but doesn't do any of those, because all he really needed was Rey to share his future place at the story. And Rey has a face of disappointment and frustration, but not a face of someone who wants to put an end at their interaction. I see the act of closing the door as if Rey wants to leave Kylo with his thoughts, so that he might understand what he really needs to win this war. He must not use destruction and anger as a weapon. The answer is obviously love.
As soon as I saw the notification I clicked...Thanks girls for this awesome podcast. I watched the movie three times (I can't believed I did!) and every time I found something new specially in Reylo connection. It's happening and I'm so happy!
"join me...please" . He needs her, and that will be his doom
Arresius , this is how Jack Sparrow died.
Hey girls. What a great episode. So many insightful points made and some funny moments too! I absolutely enjoyed the HELL out of it. Thanks so much for continuing to feed and entertain our fandom ship needs. It's so appreciated. Sharing the content now on my tumblr account. Have a great weekend :D
I agree with the comparison between Kylo and Mr Darcy's proposal. In P&P, lizzie turned Mr Darcy down because of what he did to Jane & Mr Bingley and insulting her family. But, after Mr Darcy made amends for what he had done (helping Lydia, Jane, Bingley), Lizzie accepted his proposal. I hope this will happen with Ben Solo. He must make amends, so Rey will accept his 2nd proposal. I don't mind if the proposal will take place on the meadow with sunrise 😉
I think you could say it would be his 3rd proposal, his first being when he offered her to be her teacher and show her the ways of the Force in TFA... And you know what they say, the third is the charm ; )
I think the point of the Rey/Poe scene was to show that Rey wasn't nothing. Poe knew who she's known and her reputation proceeds her.
That's a great thought.
Yes. She will make him respect her. There is arrogance in his words. As if he is above her. But he must understand that she is better than him and she is all for him.
What is interesting to me is Rey is now known to be the one who defeated Kylo Ren, found Luke Skywalker and saves the resistance. She’s become a legend much like Luke. I actually feel as if that isolated her though. The resistance will put her on a pedestal, and Rey may have have trouble connecting withe them. The ending sort of makes me feel that as she looks so lonely until Leia comes to talk to her. She also will probably have to take credit for killing Snoke since The first order will spread that and Rey being the one to have killed Snoke will inspire many people to the cause of the resistance. I don’t think she will tell anyone about her connection to Kylo(except Leia maybe, but since we aren’t going to see her in 9 no one will know except Chewy I guess) So Rey will become even more of a legend
I think him telling her she’s nothing and a nobody is just him being completely honest with her at this point and also he’s desperate for her to join him. He just risked his future to be with her
I just watched the Star Wars Show’s “Secrets of the Last Jedi” vídeo and Pablo Hidalgo said the same thing you guys said about the last force connection scene between Kylo and Rey being like the last scene in The Godfather! I thought it was so funny because I had heard it from your video first! Keep up the good work! :)
I love ❤️ how hopeful you ladies are. Thank you 🙏 for the great images of my new obsession...REYLO!!
Will never get tired of listening to your podcasts. Always bringing the quality content ❤️❤️❤️
Nothing better to come home to after an exam than this lovely podcast. :)
Oh my God, this is totally Pride and Prejudice in Star Wars! But if Kylo said the same thing to me, I would say 'Yes, I love you too.'
I don’t think Ben was abusive to Rey.
If that is so Rey is also abusive to Ben, she always attack first and she even gives him a scar.
But there is a problem, Ben and Rey are not lovers yet.
They are enemies with an undeniable attraction (force-attraction) towards each other.
Ben in the 7th movie, was rather tender with her and reflecting to Poe.
Poe suffered more than Rey did, Poe was bruised but Rey wasn’t.
Double Standard thinking really.
I also thought nothing about how Ben say she was nothing, but to him.
I thought as how Ben said that since her parents abandon her, she was nothing to them.
But to Ben who comes to love her, she was something to him.
And at the end, it was not point out to me.
In fact before that, his actions were that of a jilted lover (well, to me it felt like a jilted lover).
But your video is right with the anger.
Ben looked at Rey and Rey shut the door.
I didn’t think it ended.
But I didn’t look closely at their facial expression.
Later, I found a video about their expression on their faces during the scene.
Both are disappointed with each other for their personal choices.
Rey with the Resistance, Ben with the First Order.
I also thought how the ending might happen.
Ben will abandon the First Order and help the Resistance at the end.
But Ben will self-exile himself to an unknown planet for his crimes.
Rey will leave the resistance to study both sides of the force.
They met on a planet where Ben exiled himself, and Ben is more at peace with himself.
I will leave the ending up in the air as they look at each other and smile.
I'm so happy to have found a place where i can discuss all my reylo obsessions and not be told to shut up. People are so rude like they aren't really antis but they just don't care enough to listen to me talk about it. Even some of my best friends they can tell how passionate i am about this yet they say it's just a dumb movie get over it. This really upsets me but nobody seems to think so. Anyway all i'm trying to say is i'm glad i found my people and thank you so much for making these videos.
I have never freaked out as much when they were saying oh no they are going to shave his head. Let him be an evil ass but do not shave his head.
Chloe Harris Yes!! He needs his beautiful hair!!! Don't cut it off!! 😣
I enjoy listening to you talk and make theories about Reylo all day!
I usually make popcorn while watching your videos! 😂🍿
Hey ladies! Great video as usual!
I was thinking that the look Hux gave Kylo at the end of the movie was a foreshadow of what might come of their relationship in IX. As we know he hates Kylo and I'm not completely convinced he 100% believed Rey killed Snoke. JJ once said he'd do a whole movie on the Knights of Ren so perhaps they'd come back into the dynamic and maybe they find out that Kylo killed Snoke. Shit might hit the fan. Who knows!
Bless JJ ❤️ He's such the SW fanboy and the admiral of our ship ❤️ I'm so happy he's the one closing out the Skywalker film saga with his characters we adored. That is such a gift to our fandom etc. Take a deep breath family. 🙌🏻 Episode 9, JJ's got us.
Nóra Bánfi
Whu?
Nóra Bánfi
Adam Driver is already listed for Episode 9 on IMDB. After that, we'll see.
jedilora11 - Hux has his moments, as Snoke pointed out, maybe he'll realise that Rey is Kylo's one weakness and will somehow use that to his advantage. He's not going to be able to take either Kylo or Rey down but maybe when Kylo's distracted I could see Hux stabbing a knife in kylo's back. (or blaster).
I think Hux is going to be the big bad. Hux was played off comedically, but in Force Awakens and in the books, Hux is scary. He has control of the army, he’s patient, and he’s sneaky.
Regarding Rey in the Falcon. I think she seemed happy and smiling as a front. Just like Kylo talking smack on Crait about destroying Rey. Being reunited with the resistance she had to seem happy. If she looked sad and heartbroken people would of asked her why. As always fantastic video. #reyloisendgame
True. People don't think about how she needs to cause a good impression when she is with Resistance members. It's a mask she wears. Just like Kylo did when telling Luke that he would destroy her, which is obviously something he can't bring himself to do. Ben's mask is anger. Rey's mask is happiness, the "everything-is-fine" face, when it isn't. She even noticed that while Finn is there at Rose's weakest moment, she could not do the same for Ben Solo. The look she gives to Leia and then, to the lightsaber, is meaningful and reflects the state of her mind. And Leia, a responsible and mature figure, was there to keep the spark of hope in her heart. She was broken inside, but as a true hero does, she keeps on believing. The movie ends with that feeling:
The war is going to end. Everything will be fixed. In this galaxy far far away... hope, peace and love will reign once more. And that creates the ending of a trilogy.
Love your videos. I could talk and listen to you two talk about Reylo forever. You all should try to make predictions about episode 9, even the title maybe, and how those things relate with reylo :)
Awesome as usual. Your commentary is always A+ and you definitely made me a Reylo fan! Thanks!
They're the main couple of this trilogy! I love them and both are very sexual with each other. So interting to watch them.
You guys do a great job breaking it down! I enjoyed listening.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Please keep in mind that, from what we know right now, Luke was going by the traditional teachings of the Jedi and not going by the original philosophy. Things happened so fast that I think it was a lot to take in for him. Rey can bounce back because she does not have the baggage that he does and she knew what she wanted to do. And you're right, he resents everything that kept him from his parents and what he had to compete with which can leave a child feeling very alone which is a horrible place to be and there are some wounds in his heart that go very deep. That does not mean that he cannot or will not overcome them, but that is going to take a while.
Thank you for saying that we really do not know what Kylo had in mind when he asked Rey to join him. He might have had something entirely different because he has shown that he does in fact have a sensitive side that we only see whenever Rey is around which I think is a small step but an important step. I think for episode 9, some time will pass, maybe a few years and in his private time he will go over what Luke said to him and I think he will think of Rey a lot too and still communicate with her and she will learn more about him.
Remember, having your uncle, the Legendary Luke Skywalker, who never gave up on his father and yet sensed a power inside of you that he couldn't understand and he feared it. Yes, it was a fleeting thought, but how was Ben suppose to know that? He woke up to this mad looking man with his light saber poised to kill him and that had to feel like the ultimate betrayal. So, that is what Ben knew about love, being sent away and having his uncle trying to kill him.
I think the "you came from nothing" part was not meant to be an insult to Rey, if anything it was a compliment. I think he was trying to tell her that she came from no great house or had any legendary or well known parentage and came from very humble beginnings and yet was able to achieve so much in spite of it and that is what makes her special. Yes, he said it a bit rough, but I get tired of the sugar coating of things. It is one thing to be delicate and to not be insensitive, but they just got finished killing Snoke's guards so I doubt he was in a sensitive frame of mind. Plus she needed to hear it.
I also think that he has no experience with anything than being a warrior so matters of the heart regardless of what they are do not come easy to him and I also think what he may be trying to get across is that he really does not care if she came from royalty or scavengers because that does not matter to him. I know as a former 1% and child of "privilege" those things never mattered to me and that I never told any of my friends, though some figured it out, until 20 years later for fear they would label me as something I am not. I don't see Kylo that way, as some spoiled brat who is entitled. I think he may see himself that way not by entitlement but by hard work and proving himself and there is a difference there. I think he needed her to keep him in check, be the sun to his moon so to speak.
I think he wanted the resistance dead because he thought his mother was dead. Remember, he could not fire on her and we do not know for sure if he knew his mother was still alive. He thinks Rey left with Snoke's escape shuttle so he had no reason to believe she would be on the Falcon. When he said "blow that hunk of junk out of the sky" I don't think he knew she was on there because let's face it, he was in a rage too.
Maybe I am way off here.
Knights of Ren - each one has Force skills. Can you imagine with Kylo Ren & Hux in charge = mayhem in the galaxy. How entertaining this will be 🤓
Thank you!
And YES. You were right about everything that really means in this story. The 8 movie proves it. Your predictions were right. You were right all these years! :D I'm so happy about it and so proud of you! And I'm still so happy that I found your project some time ago. I saw raw(sorry!) infinite wisdom :D Oh, I'm so happy about us, as a fandom and a ship.
😍
Thank u ladies! I replay this video anytime I loose hope....
What if “the big bad,” is not any one person, but is rather the war itself? Perhaps the resistance and the First Order are the villains. Like Rey and Ben are dual protagonists, the two sides of the war are dual antagonists. Or something along this line. I think that would be fascinating.
Julia Crawford I like that idea a lot actually. It really fits with the entire gray area of life this trilogy is exploring. Often times, there isn’t one “big bad” that causes all horrific things to happen in the world. It usually comes from both sides.
Kylo already wanted to end the war and leave everything in the past. Maybe he wanted to build a new world without wars with her, but she did not understand.
I really enjoy the discussions in your videos. Thanks for putting all the time and thought into them.
I feel deeply that Episode XI HAS to culminate with a union of the two. It's the balance of the Force, Yin-Yang, love conquers all. It's primal, relatable, it's... look, I'm a casual fan of Star Wars, I love the movies but not like, camp outside the theater for the premiere, and I am shipping this like a preteen girl. I am a father of two family man and I care for this fictional relationship in a rarefied way. Not many stories, whether a film, a book, manga, whatever, have had me invest my emotions like this. So yeah. Reylo Forever!
I really enjoy the idea of the Knights of Ren maybe being shown and finding out Kylo betrayed Snoke. I also think Hux shouldn't be underestimated because he is definitely a weasel who is aware of kylo's weakness for Rey to some degree. Its possible he will use that to push Kylo out. How badass would it be in the final Reylo fight/team up to see Kylo choose Rey over power and Rey not walk away but towards him and they embrace. I believe in the 3rd times a charm theory.
Thank you for another great video! I've been a Reylo fan for about a year and it began with one of your vids. :-) Like you mentioned, however, some people have honest reservations or cringe because they see some hallmarks of an abusive relationship. I fled an abusive marriage, so I am one of those. The "you are nothing" line hit home really hard. But, this is what I hold on to: they are NOT in a relationship yet. And Rey left him after he said that. Not only does Kylo need to be redeemed from the dark side of the force and the evil of the First order to merit the forgiveness of the galaxy, he ALSO needs to be redeemed from his self-centeredness and pride to deserve Rey. I hope we see both in IX.
Really loved this as usual. Amazing insights!
Just when I was about to go to sleep, thank you I love this channel ❤️
So glad I found you gals! Love your SW chats. Reylo--I have not been so invested in two characters for a long time. So many people making such a deal over Kylo/Ben talking down to Rey, but not so fast. She "tried" him as well a couple of times: calling him a monster more than once--even before he killed Han; she was so angry a couple of times she not only wanted to kill him, she tried with the blaster and the saber; she quickly shot at him in the first force-skype session with the blaster Han gave her, and Kylo/Ben felt it. He killed Snoke to save her, and I am thinking maybe that is Kylo/Ben's atonement with the father figure in his hero journey for killing Han. It was such a missed opportunity that she didn't take him up on his offer of letting the past die and letting the Jedi and Sith dynamic go; but, if she did, then we wouldn't have much to work with for a third act. At the end, they both looked pained when she closed the door; it ain't over. In the hero formula, the hero gets the goddess as a reward. There is no other goddess in this myth than Rey. And with the flipping the gender roles in this trilogy, the heroine's reward could also be Rey gaining the demi-god Kylo/Ben as her reward. I am hoping Kylo/Ben continues on the hero's journey, as well as Rey, and that their reward is in finding their other half in each other.
I love you guys! You make me smile and laugh! I could listen to you all day long literally!! I rewatch your videos just to keep laughing. Thank you 😂❤️😜
Honestly since kylo was told Rey escaped in snoke’s ship he probably assumed she was still in there. The is nothing to make him think anything different so he most likely had no idea she was even on there until the final scene
Great video! I agree that Reylo is going to continue into Episode 9. I believe we're going to see Kylo Ren and Rey come together somehow. I can't wait to see how it happens!
I have always thought what does Star Wars mean, bringing balance to the Force? If Rey wins and a new Jedi order arises is there balance? If Kylo wins is there balance? No I believe Luke brought this up about this never ending cycle between the light side and the dark. If BALANCE is to happen, Rey and Kylo have to come together. That is way her force strength equals his with no training. The best way may be an odd love story and once they joint, the Force is balance and their force power disappears?
jeff rassuchine yin and yang
6:26 gohs I felt the same! it was the moment like: "now, kiss!" And then I saw Rey's face :)
12:54 I love you girls! :D
Just a quick comment regarding your statement of how Ben should have been more invested in stopping the attack on the resistance:
So I have a theory... We obvious know that Ben and Leia sensed each other through the force right before the TIE fighters hit her literally a second after he pulls his fingers off the trigger, right? Well, there was no evidence in the movie that he knew his mother had survived, meaning that he would hate the resistance even more now and not care about their destruction at all because he thinks no one he cares about is on those ships. And it would also explain why she finally said that her son is gone, because she believes it was HIM who nearly killed her.
Just a thought... 😁
I agree.
"When the time comes, you WILL turn and stand with me"!! #REYLO
Ok we can’t get Reylo now because there’s one more movie to go. Oh, JJ ❤️❤️❤️ I wonder if Rey has to battle the Knights of Ren, and somehow, Kylo will have to choose. Somehow, she has to bring Ben back 💕💕💕
elsaandnoah perhaps that is the scene in her first steps vision from TFA... and why we have yet to see the Knights of Ren.
Good evening everyone! Hope y'all have been having a pleasant day!
Gregory B Orange Elite 37 wishing you the same
Since I already wrote a comment on the other video (previous one), I don't need to write anymore about my opinion.
So... Good job ladies, keep up with your work!
"This is our last episode before Christmas" LOL, that part was hilarious. I love the show, and I totally get that real life can get in the way. See you next time!
Kylo Ren is definitely fueled by his anger. Somebody turns on him and he acts there in the moment; when he killed Snoke, his father and when Rey left him. He wants to be with Rey but he doesn't really know how to go about it and when she leaves he's angry all over again and takes it out on the Resistance. He clearly has loads anger/abandonment issues!! I think they will work it out in the end, can't wait to see how it pans out! Kylo Ren is a great character.
Elsa Brotchie He offered her the GALAXY and she refused him.....
Very insightful and thoughtful podcast! Tyvm from a brand new subscriber :) keep up the great work
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the discussion. ^^
Hux doesn't need to be intimidating to Kylo to turn an entire army against him. Kylo does not have the loyalty of The First Order, and it's really sad that so many of you all are focusing on the comedic aspects of Hux instead of what he actually is which is dangerous. Also, the big bad doesn't need to be a force user. I mean, the "big good" aren't all force users? Finn, Rose, and Poe aren't diminished in their goodness just because they don't swing a lightsaber around, so I don't understand why the reverse is somehow less believable.
Hux had Phasma kill his Dad to get to where he is. Hux is the guy who gave the order to destroy entire planets, not Kylo. I think smarmy weasel Hux has a few more cards up his sleeve yet.
Every time someone trlls me reylo isn't going to happen or that there's something wrong with me for shipping it you guys make me feel better and reassure me so thank you for that.😄
Great video as always. I don't think ben was trying to be mean, he just doesn't have expirence with girls so obviously he was akward. The reylo scenes in the last jedi were the best part of 2017. Reylo is more alive than ever. Can't wait for more of your videos.
You are awesome. You said what needed to be said and whoever is thinking reylo isn't going to happen we shall see in #EpisodeIX. #Reylo all the way!!!!!!!
First: I totally ship ReyLo, since their first meetings in TFA! They will definitely be together at some point!
Anyway, so I'm a new subscriber, just found you guys and love your channel! You have a lot of really interesting and smart discussions. I had a few ideas/theories I wanted to share & ask opinions on, so I hope this all makes sense and sorry for the LONG wall of text coming! Lol
After the fight in the throne room, when Ben is asking Rey to join him...He says some very telling things, I think, about how he's come to view the whole situation: force users, the war and power struggles between the first order and the resistance. He says to Rey, "Let the past die...all of it....the First Order, the Resistance, the Jedi, the Sith...I think he wants to eradicate all of that, to stop all the conflict and how the force is being used by the different factions, to perpetuate the wars. Which would be kind of a unique and kind of revolutionary idea and take, on how to try to end all of that. When Rey says, "don't go this way", Ben also says..."no, no, you're still holding on"....I think that he meant, he feels, she is still holding on to, as he sees them, the old and the past ideals of light and dark and that they must always be the answer to accomplish whatever each side's goals are, in their seemingly endless conflict. I think maybe he meant he wanted to "rule" the galaxy, in a different or perhaps, better way and without all that. I think he actually wants to make things better. But, felt in order to accomplish all that: the destruction of Snoke and the First Order, etc...He thought he had to become that way, to try to embrace the dark, (which does seem to go against his very nature)....in order to be strong enough to defeat the Supreme Leader and he does manage to fool Snoke and finally gets the opportunity he's been waiting for, to kill him...and he did so, with Rey's help. I think he saw something in Rey, from the beginning. When they first fought...he'd found his equal in power and feeling. He knows she could help him and does admire her power. He also recognized & feels the natural kinship they seem to have and an instinctive understanding that is there between them. He's put himself in a very lonely place, where he's apparently already been in since youth, He's been betrayed and manipulated and he's also done things while forcing himself to use the dark side. He thought he needed to kill his weakness (Ben) and became Kylo to accomplish the plan he's got in his head. (Which, the execution of, is tearing him apart and causing him pain) Why would someone put themselves through that kind of hell, unless they thought it was very necessary to accomplish something important. Like when he told Rey, he didn't hate his father. When he was about to kill Han, he told him, he had to do something, but didn't know if he had the strength to do it. So, you can tell afterward, he realizes he made an awful mistake. But, Snoke might have killed him, if he knew he'd let his father go. Right before that, when He'd sensed his father...He just kept walking away across the bridge, but Han stopped him. So that confrontation then had to take place.
Anyway, basically I'm saying I think that maybe Ben had a different plan all along, than what anyone thought. That he isn't exactly what he appeared to be, in TFA....and that we're getting glimpses of this in TLJ.