@@M_k-zi3tnyeah. Because they manipulate the stitches and cloth textures in shader level for more flexibility. They talk about it in their conferences.
Yeah I've seen the same thing in Cyberpunk meshes. They are also done for stitching decals that tile in one direction. They also have multiple UV sets for some reasons I don't always understand, however on export they are named lightmap uvs so I assume they are required for some baked lighting fallback things.
My understanding is that ND did not make all their hero assets in house, while Rockstar instead do. This would explain the inconsistency of techniques between Ellie and Arthur's meshes. I can think that, compared to Arthur, the people involved in the creation of Ellie do not work in the same place or with the same pipeline. They simply complete a given task (like create the clothes or retopo the face) and call it a day. The work on Arthur's model is either done by a single person, or in a studio where people can actively comunicate and follow a clear structure for creation. Great content as usual, thanks for sharing!
ND simply isn't as big a studio as Rockstar is (Hell, even Rockstar outsources work to other studios. Every big game studio does this). And they have outsourced some work to outside studios but obviously they keep a keen eye on the work they are given back to ensure that it is of a high quality. And it is. All the faces and bodies are DEF done by in-house character artists tho. Soa Lee, Frank Tzeng, for example. There is also the PlayStation Visual Arts department that helps out.
I think a lot of it makes sense when you realize Naughty Dog brought on film animators and modelers, and also didn't have to do as much optimizing as an open world game like RDR2 since TLOU2 is a linear experience. It's also really cool to see how messy things can be under the hood as long as all you focus on is what your audience sees. This is also the case for The Binding of Isaac. Under the hood, the entire game is basically just one giant switch case expression lol. Entirely different situation but you get my point.
The mystery AO you don't see during gameplay could be shader masks that are only applied to block out some part of the shader like ambient IBL reflections in areas that should be occluded while otherwise allowing it to shade normally. Depending on how a shader is written it may take special masks and maps that only makes sense with that particular setup.
Seeing as the mesh has been detriangulated into quads it’s probably why the jaw geometry seems weird, the edges that would be making the jaw area quads into tris would probably have been done manually to make sure they’re parallel to the jaw. It’s honestly a good call to do it that way because it wastes less geometry in the corner of the jaw which would be a LOT for this dense of a mesh, plus it’s going to be all tris in-engine anyway so might as well get the most out of it
That third UV is pure nightmare fuel lol Great video! As a 3D artist myself, your videos are incredibly helpful and I always learn a lot. Many thanks, friend!
Nice to see a new upload from your channel! And if you don’t want to review models forever, I’m sure any topic you make content about (within the context of game development or the technical aspects of games will be still be fascinating to most of your followers). Every video I’ve watched of yours has been great, there’s not enough channels like yours in my opinion. Thanks again for the knowledge you share 🙏
Omg, I want to learn how to create good models! 😲 Plus, thank you for your video; I love discovering how games are made in depth and see sometime errors, mistakes or the standard that people have set.
some of these AAA studios make it almost impossible to examine their models with crazy hashing, streaming textures or uv mixer, these are really great learning tools for us 3d artists . thank you for this vid
Funnily enough, me looking at TLOU2 models, specifically Ellie's is how I found your channel, and then I see you upload this vid. Third UV is for stitches/skein/holes in fabric on clothing. The wrinkle normals, I've been having trouble scaling and mapping properly, but use a bit of vector math and a mask to apply them to the face. Good find on the 2nd UV being directional global fx though. I had been wondering how they applied water fx and stuff. I've been tearing into their assets for about 2 years now in blender trying to make sense of them.
Their skin shader excludes the AO mask if hit by direct light. But you are right, it can look a bit flat ingame. I talked to one of their artists when they were in early pre-production and looking back, I bet they relied on their engine programmers word, that they'll have raytrace quality small scale AO ingame
The third UVmap seems like a trim for the borders damage of the clothes, that would explain why it is all a straight line and when you selected the shells all of them are from the borders. The difference in triangles with rockstar might be due to Red Dead being open world. The AO textures and this things, could be used in a very specific part of the game that they needed a mask of some sort and they might not need very good quality so they literally painted it in photoshop. When I see this model I see decisions made not couse it was right to do a character like that but because this specific characters needs a specific thing.
Thanks for sharing. Please make it a series, I love those videos. I learn so much thanks to you! Congrats for your family by the way. And your ArtStation in your description doesn't show up by the way
Anything Last of us 2 and ellie i click. Game is a secret obsession of mine. anyway was interesting hearing your thoughts, will have a look at the control one and arthur morgan to see where you're getting at as im a fresh beginner into 3d modelling. wish you a pleasant fatherhood! congrats
I agree, this game has a huge 'flatness' issue. Sometimes it looks like they only render albedo. No AO, no Lambert just flat albedo and some specular when things are wet
the edgeflow of ellie's jaw produces more realistic deformations. if you think of how the quads flow as the face deforms around the jaw, you can understand this. arthur's topology will have visibly less quality deformations due to the edge flow following the jaw. have you tested this to confirm this, or have you just made an assumption?
the facial topology seems more similar to what id see in feature animation. perhaps because they have high mesh density they can get away with topoloy that doesn't flow with the jaw line? just a thought.
Would you like to take a look at Lara Croft from Rise of the Tomb Raider? The models (especially the Syria tank top outfit) have some really high detail for an at-the-release-time Xbox One exclusive title that was supposed to run even on the 2013 launch version. Pretty sure the tank top outfit at least also has some wrinkle map details that isn't even used in the final product, but I recall seeing it previewed in the pre-release showcases. The face is animated with shape keys so you can't create expression with at least any ROTR ripped models you find online, but you can use the Shadow of the Tomb Raider mod tools on Nexus to rip the Lara head model that has animated shape keys, that is if you own SOTR. The head in both games are the same, except the collar area is slightly shaped differently due to the fact they buffed Lara's arms for the last game. The ripped models from ROTR you also find online probably either contain no hair or it's the low poly squirrel hair from the 360/PS3 version of Tomb Raider 2013, since the Purehair ponytail is created with the in-engine polylines, though you can usually find a rough version of the Purehair variant from Shadow Lara models online and just copy-paste that on the other models.
This is just a visualization of the exported deformation bones in Blender. They made the actual rig in another software which features controls to ease deformation and visibility during the animation phase. Unfortunately, full rigs with controls are not exported with the model once integrated in a game engine, so we would need the original 3D model file to get our hands on it, which is very unlikely to happen. Also, riggers tend to use tools to assist in generating bones and controls, so I doubt that the thousands of bones have been hand-placed, but I imagine that a handful of those are.
These are the rigs as they appear in the finished game and don't appear this way in MAYA where they are animating and etc. They have pretty control rigs with nice UI and sliders that are so much easier to work with.
As far as i know the Rigs in-engine are much more simple, in the engine they'll just have UI with Sliders and the Artists will be able to easily adjust for example how high the Left Eyebrow is by simply pulling up the slider. If you want to see how this looks for AAA dev games i'd recommend you look up Source 2 face rigs they used for Half-Life: Alyx. the controls are very simplified for the actual devs.
@@adrienh.3859 Thank you! AAA games are on another level. Downloading ripped models from the internet overwhelms me with all the things and details they have. This has always stopped me from learning 3D and making games.
Model review, 3d scanned. Cloth and textures, nothing special. Shaders, a horde of dorks would like a word with you about nodes and how incredibly important they are relative to the work of the artists. 🤓
![Shenseea - Dating Szn (Options) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eUePmZFIXUg/mqdefault.jpg)
Third UV set is for sewing patterns. They talk about it in their making of Nathan Drake video.
they have a UVset just for that?
@@M_k-zi3tnyeah. Because they manipulate the stitches and cloth textures in shader level for more flexibility. They talk about it in their conferences.
Is there any chance any of you have a link to the video about this technique? Thanks😊
Yeah I've seen the same thing in Cyberpunk meshes. They are also done for stitching decals that tile in one direction. They also have multiple UV sets for some reasons I don't always understand, however on export they are named lightmap uvs so I assume they are required for some baked lighting fallback things.
@@6TheBACH ruclips.net/video/70jVUBnp6lQ/видео.html 11:40
My understanding is that ND did not make all their hero assets in house, while Rockstar instead do. This would explain the inconsistency of techniques between Ellie and Arthur's meshes. I can think that, compared to Arthur, the people involved in the creation of Ellie do not work in the same place or with the same pipeline. They simply complete a given task (like create the clothes or retopo the face) and call it a day. The work on Arthur's model is either done by a single person, or in a studio where people can actively comunicate and follow a clear structure for creation.
Great content as usual, thanks for sharing!
ND simply isn't as big a studio as Rockstar is (Hell, even Rockstar outsources work to other studios. Every big game studio does this). And they have outsourced some work to outside studios but obviously they keep a keen eye on the work they are given back to ensure that it is of a high quality. And it is.
All the faces and bodies are DEF done by in-house character artists tho. Soa Lee, Frank Tzeng, for example. There is also the PlayStation Visual Arts department that helps out.
I think a lot of it makes sense when you realize Naughty Dog brought on film animators and modelers, and also didn't have to do as much optimizing as an open world game like RDR2 since TLOU2 is a linear experience. It's also really cool to see how messy things can be under the hood as long as all you focus on is what your audience sees.
This is also the case for The Binding of Isaac. Under the hood, the entire game is basically just one giant switch case expression lol. Entirely different situation but you get my point.
The mystery AO you don't see during gameplay could be shader masks that are only applied to block out some part of the shader like ambient IBL reflections in areas that should be occluded while otherwise allowing it to shade normally. Depending on how a shader is written it may take special masks and maps that only makes sense with that particular setup.
the third UV seems to me like a trim texture with cloth seams/stiches maybe
great asset overall, huge insight, thanks!
Seeing as the mesh has been detriangulated into quads it’s probably why the jaw geometry seems weird, the edges that would be making the jaw area quads into tris would probably have been done manually to make sure they’re parallel to the jaw. It’s honestly a good call to do it that way because it wastes less geometry in the corner of the jaw which would be a LOT for this dense of a mesh, plus it’s going to be all tris in-engine anyway so might as well get the most out of it
@@SymbolCymbals2356 i didn't even consider that. Good theory.
You can check ''Compare UVs' in the tris to quads and it'll prevent the corruption of UVs.
That third UV is pure nightmare fuel lol
Great video! As a 3D artist myself, your videos are incredibly helpful and I always learn a lot. Many thanks, friend!
Nice to see a new upload from your channel! And if you don’t want to review models forever, I’m sure any topic you make content about (within the context of game development or the technical aspects of games will be still be fascinating to most of your followers). Every video I’ve watched of yours has been great, there’s not enough channels like yours in my opinion. Thanks again for the knowledge you share 🙏
I came across your videos before and subscribed just in case there was ever another video. I'm glad you're back
Woah! It's been a long time since. Glad to see you're back.
As always this was super informative, thank you for making and sharing this video !!
Omg, I want to learn how to create good models! 😲
Plus, thank you for your video; I love discovering how games are made in depth and see sometime errors, mistakes or the standard that people have set.
Thank you so much for sharing these models. This is so insightful. I can compare my own approach with such a high quality asset.
some of these AAA studios make it almost impossible to examine their models with crazy hashing, streaming textures or uv mixer, these are really great learning tools for us 3d artists . thank you for this vid
I would really want you to take a look at Half-Life 2 NPC models. I heard they have some really horrendous topology.
Funnily enough, me looking at TLOU2 models, specifically Ellie's is how I found your channel, and then I see you upload this vid.
Third UV is for stitches/skein/holes in fabric on clothing. The wrinkle normals, I've been having trouble scaling and mapping properly, but use a bit of vector math and a mask to apply them to the face. Good find on the 2nd UV being directional global fx though. I had been wondering how they applied water fx and stuff. I've been tearing into their assets for about 2 years now in blender trying to make sense of them.
As someone who is only a beginner in 3d design..
The faces all unwrapped was horrifying.
Great to have you back man love the videos!
I love these videos man, very interesting and educational.
Their skin shader excludes the AO mask if hit by direct light. But you are right, it can look a bit flat ingame. I talked to one of their artists when they were in early pre-production and looking back, I bet they relied on their engine programmers word, that they'll have raytrace quality small scale AO ingame
The third UVmap seems like a trim for the borders damage of the clothes, that would explain why it is all a straight line and when you selected the shells all of them are from the borders. The difference in triangles with rockstar might be due to Red Dead being open world. The AO textures and this things, could be used in a very specific part of the game that they needed a mask of some sort and they might not need very good quality so they literally painted it in photoshop. When I see this model I see decisions made not couse it was right to do a character like that but because this specific characters needs a specific thing.
Thanks for sharing. Please make it a series, I love those videos. I learn so much thanks to you! Congrats for your family by the way. And your ArtStation in your description doesn't show up by the way
congrats on the family!
UV 3 is definitively for stitches. We do that too at our studio.
love the format of these videos. very authentic. keep it up
I really enjoy your videos and your attention to detail is awesome. keep up the good work!
Anything Last of us 2 and ellie i click. Game is a secret obsession of mine. anyway was interesting hearing your thoughts, will have a look at the control one and arthur morgan to see where you're getting at as im a fresh beginner into 3d modelling. wish you a pleasant fatherhood! congrats
This is so interesting holy
I agree, this game has a huge 'flatness' issue. Sometimes it looks like they only render albedo. No AO, no Lambert just flat albedo and some specular when things are wet
Limitation of the PS4 I guess
YOU ARE BACK
Love your videos man, do you think you can do one of the Resident Evil characters?
Ayy he's back!
the 3rd UV set looks like it's for stitching and other micro details
Yet another great video. Awesome channel!
Interesting textures.
the edgeflow of ellie's jaw produces more realistic deformations. if you think of how the quads flow as the face deforms around the jaw, you can understand this. arthur's topology will have visibly less quality deformations due to the edge flow following the jaw. have you tested this to confirm this, or have you just made an assumption?
Awesome to see, thanks for the video
@ 5:40 that looks to me like UVs for tiling thread stitching. Weve had that in a few pipelines where Ive worked.
the facial topology seems more similar to what id see in feature animation. perhaps because they have high mesh density they can get away with topoloy that doesn't flow with the jaw line? just a thought.
Would be interested in seeing some enviromental assets from games. Especially a building for Red Dead Redemption 2
very handy
Would you like to take a look at Lara Croft from Rise of the Tomb Raider?
The models (especially the Syria tank top outfit) have some really high detail for an at-the-release-time Xbox One exclusive title that was supposed to run even on the 2013 launch version. Pretty sure the tank top outfit at least also has some wrinkle map details that isn't even used in the final product, but I recall seeing it previewed in the pre-release showcases. The face is animated with shape keys so you can't create expression with at least any ROTR ripped models you find online, but you can use the Shadow of the Tomb Raider mod tools on Nexus to rip the Lara head model that has animated shape keys, that is if you own SOTR. The head in both games are the same, except the collar area is slightly shaped differently due to the fact they buffed Lara's arms for the last game.
The ripped models from ROTR you also find online probably either contain no hair or it's the low poly squirrel hair from the 360/PS3 version of Tomb Raider 2013, since the Purehair ponytail is created with the in-engine polylines, though you can usually find a rough version of the Purehair variant from Shadow Lara models online and just copy-paste that on the other models.
You mentioned you quaded the model and from the looks of it there might be a chance that the quading procedure got rid of the jaw line
This is why rockstar game's are optimized
are there any specific reasons why uvs are flipped?
Nice review brother. Where do you get the models from?
Yooooo! You're back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes!!!!!!
How do people work in the industry with such complicated models? That rigging is impossible to understand.
This is just a visualization of the exported deformation bones in Blender. They made the actual rig in another software which features controls to ease deformation and visibility during the animation phase. Unfortunately, full rigs with controls are not exported with the model once integrated in a game engine, so we would need the original 3D model file to get our hands on it, which is very unlikely to happen. Also, riggers tend to use tools to assist in generating bones and controls, so I doubt that the thousands of bones have been hand-placed, but I imagine that a handful of those are.
These are the rigs as they appear in the finished game and don't appear this way in MAYA where they are animating and etc. They have pretty control rigs with nice UI and sliders that are so much easier to work with.
As far as i know the Rigs in-engine are much more simple, in the engine they'll just have UI with Sliders and the Artists will be able to easily adjust for example how high the Left Eyebrow is by simply pulling up the slider.
If you want to see how this looks for AAA dev games i'd recommend you look up Source 2 face rigs they used for Half-Life: Alyx. the controls are very simplified for the actual devs.
@@luckyboy5nu Oh, thank you! It's great to see that the engine makes things easier.
@@adrienh.3859 Thank you! AAA games are on another level. Downloading ripped models from the internet overwhelms me with all the things and details they have. This has always stopped me from learning 3D and making games.
154000 triangles*
soon at smutbase
@@maxxx1444 you're 4 years late 😭
Why you don't review the Death?
150k tris is okay i think. videocards has gotten beefier so far and its main character
Bro where do you get these models?
you need to learn about alt+middle click ;)
don’t meet your heroes i guess 😅
Model review, 3d scanned.
Cloth and textures, nothing special.
Shaders, a horde of dorks would like a word with you about nodes and how incredibly important they are relative to the work of the artists. 🤓
Ewww Naughty Dog, lame creators of overrated walking sims for casuals
yeah they really gave up with the second game
@mikk5428 what?