Most if not all piano companies contract some production out to other factories, often in China. Even some Steinways have been made in other factories. So have Yamahas and Kawais.
Kawai has done this for at least 60+ years. Kawai did the same manufacturing for Baldwin under the Howard Name. I played many Howard pianos that were built by Kawai and can say they were wonderful well constructed Pianos. Great Video.
I'll be the first to comment here as a fellow piano technician and pianist. Thanks for clarifying this information that otherwise would not be known to the general public and buyers. First of all, I have a 1915 Steinway D that I overhauled some years ago, which made it much more affordable for me to own and enjoy. A replacement value with the same model today is over $200,000 new, which I could never afford. Are Steinway pianos really worth that? Are they really "that good"? My answer is:"No", because you need to break down what expenses are really in a piano before ever making it to the showroom floor for sale. Most people would be led to believe that Steinways are meticulously hand crafted and that's why it's so expensive. Not so They are not built any different than any other fine top tier brands. In fact, when you break down the parts of a piano, many parts are sourced and shared across all brands, such as tuning pins, strings, hammers, action parts, casters, screws etc. In and of themselves those parts are not expensive and actually represent a small fraction of the final price of any piano. I know that, having rebuilt a number of pianos with new parts. All brands have carefully selected wood for the construction of a piano of any size, and of course the biggest and best models will get the best materials, whereas the smaller grands and uprights will get the acceptable remainder. The wood used has some expense, but again a smaller fraction of the final price tag. Same with the cast iron plate that is used in all models and brands, of which no piano can be made without. There is a fairly narrow range of material costs across all brands and models, as hammers on a concert grand is no more expensive than the smallest upright, with the differences merely less than $100 as paid for by technicians like you and me for "after market" rebuilds. Factories pay even less as they order in bulk. Same with action parts (hammer shanks, repetitions, back checks etc.) That leaves the "price" of workers next. Many operations are the same across all brands and models, such as keyboard and action assembly, which is all hand done using various jigs for efficiency . Stringing up a piano, bringing it up to pitch, tuning, action regulating, voicing and all those steps are the same across all pianos. You get the idea. The time to assemble a piano in the various departments would be similar across all pianos. This is where the cost can change dramatically, as workers wages and real estate costs are the "hidden" costs to the final buyer. Steinway is built in one of the most expensive real estate locations in the world, and in order to keep workers employed in such expensive regions, their wages must be able pay for the cost of living close enough to the factory. The real estate overheads of taxes and what ever has to be added to the cost of the piano as well. To cut those costs, a brand would have to locate to areas that have lower overhead expenses and lower wages. Enter other countries that provide such incentives. Enter Steinway employing Kawai to provide a "lower line of a Steinway brand" piano like Boston and Essex. Other than basic parts like tuning pins and strings and hammers, they share next to nothing except the drawing board that they were designed from. So you aren't really getting a "Steinway" product, but just a piano "rubber stamped" by Steinway. Does that mean they aren't good pianos in and of themselves? Not necessarily, but like you pointed out, it's not really a "Steinway" product if they don't come out of the same factory with the same workers on a "lower line" of production If Steinway could cut their overhead in half, they could significantly cut the price of their pianos without affecting the "quality" of their pianos. They come out of the factory just the same either way. Then they would sell more of their own pianos and not have to resort to "other brands" to keep the money coming in. Also, I have converted my Steinway to the new WNG composite action, and it blows away the performance and reliability of any wooden action. It's a travesty that Steinway insists of staying with wooden actions in order to make it a "genuine" Steinway, and not a "Stein-was" as they call any alteration not "authorized" by them. They have a conflict of interest there, as I believe they now own Renner that builds the very wooden actions they use. They aren't a "better" piano because they use "traditional" wooden actions. Don't be duped!!! Kawai uses the composite materials only for their repetitions, but the WNG composite products are far better, especially for technicians that rebuild pianos. For starters, Kawai still uses wooden shanks instead of composite shanks like WNG developed, which are far superior in every way. Also, the bushings in the Kawai composite parts still use the traditional felt that can't hold tolerances like the hard bushings developed in the WNG parts, and won't last nearly as long. Therefore, Kawai has only done "half" the job, and doesn't make it available to technicians to rebuild actions from any other brands. WNG on the other hand can be fully customized for ANY brand and makes retrofitting very possible to improve actin geometry and solve other touch weight problems. WNG composite parts, along with the David Stanwood "Precision Touch Design" (PTD) protocols makes for an unbelievably even and responsive action not found in any brand (except Mason & Hamlin that WNG was developed with) that still uses wooden actions and obsolete methods of key balancing. Thanks for this video and your information.
You are correct - the NY Steinway has among the highest production costs in the industry because of its location. But you are forgetting something. The NY Steinway is also for better or worse the most hand made piano in the world. This allows the Steinway to be built differently than any other mass produced piano in the world. The most important difference is the single piece rim construction. Other pianos are built with inner and outer rims often made of different materials. This is why the Steinway is more resonant and tonally complex than other instruments. The single piece rock maple rim allows the Steinway to resonate like a drum and get that bass growl that made them famous. Also in todays ever shrinking piano market the Steinway still commands more on the used markets than other high end pianos.
I’m a former Steinway rep. I worked in Southern California for years. It’s fairly common knowledge that Kawai builds the Boston line in Japan and Pearl River builds the Essex line in China. They are NOT built by Steinway. They are produced to give customers a choice at the lower price points that had traditionally been dominated by stencil pianos built in Asia and Indonesia. I cannot recommend them. I played literally hundreds of instruments and my takeaway was Kawai’s Black series was preferable to Boston and the Hailun’s were head and shoulders above the Essex line. If you want a Steinway - get a Steinway. Avoid buyers remorse.
The "tail" of the piano, ie the end farthest from the keyboard, is wider than usual. Most grands have it tapering down to a narrower angle. The wide tail ones give more scope for increased soundboard area and bass string length, at the cost of looking somewhat ungainly.
There was literally nothing confusing at all about this presentation or the detailed information he gave. What makes it “still a bit confusing” for you?
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Most if not all piano companies contract some production out to other factories, often in China. Even some Steinways have been made in other factories. So have Yamahas and Kawais.
Kawai has done this for at least 60+ years. Kawai did the same manufacturing for Baldwin under the Howard Name. I played many Howard pianos that were built by Kawai and can say they were wonderful well constructed Pianos. Great Video.
Thank you!
Kawai is a very respected make.
I'll be the first to comment here as a fellow piano technician and pianist. Thanks for clarifying this information that otherwise would not be known to the general public and buyers.
First of all, I have a 1915 Steinway D that I overhauled some years ago, which made it much more affordable for me to own and enjoy. A replacement value with the same model today is over $200,000 new, which I could never afford. Are Steinway pianos really worth that? Are they really "that good"? My answer is:"No", because you need to break down what expenses are really in a piano before ever making it to the showroom floor for sale.
Most people would be led to believe that Steinways are meticulously hand crafted and that's why it's so expensive. Not so They are not built any different than any other fine top tier brands. In fact, when you break down the parts of a piano, many parts are sourced and shared across all brands, such as tuning pins, strings, hammers, action parts, casters, screws etc. In and of themselves those parts are not expensive and actually represent a small fraction of the final price of any piano. I know that, having rebuilt a number of pianos with new parts.
All brands have carefully selected wood for the construction of a piano of any size, and of course the biggest and best models will get the best materials, whereas the smaller grands and uprights will get the acceptable remainder. The wood used has some expense, but again a smaller fraction of the final price tag. Same with the cast iron plate that is used in all models and brands, of which no piano can be made without.
There is a fairly narrow range of material costs across all brands and models, as hammers on a concert grand is no more expensive than the smallest upright, with the differences merely less than $100 as paid for by technicians like you and me for "after market" rebuilds. Factories pay even less as they order in bulk. Same with action parts (hammer shanks, repetitions, back checks etc.)
That leaves the "price" of workers next. Many operations are the same across all brands and models, such as keyboard and action assembly, which is all hand done using various jigs for efficiency . Stringing up a piano, bringing it up to pitch, tuning, action regulating, voicing and all those steps are the same across all pianos. You get the idea. The time to assemble a piano in the various departments would be similar across all pianos.
This is where the cost can change dramatically, as workers wages and real estate costs are the "hidden" costs to the final buyer. Steinway is built in one of the most expensive real estate locations in the world, and in order to keep workers employed in such expensive regions, their wages must be able pay for the cost of living close enough to the factory. The real estate overheads of taxes and what ever has to be added to the cost of the piano as well.
To cut those costs, a brand would have to locate to areas that have lower overhead expenses and lower wages. Enter other countries that provide such incentives. Enter Steinway employing Kawai to provide a "lower line of a Steinway brand" piano like Boston and Essex. Other than basic parts like tuning pins and strings and hammers, they share next to nothing except the drawing board that they were designed from. So you aren't really getting a "Steinway" product, but just a piano "rubber stamped" by Steinway. Does that mean they aren't good pianos in and of themselves? Not necessarily, but like you pointed out, it's not really a "Steinway" product if they don't come out of the same factory with the same workers on a "lower line" of production
If Steinway could cut their overhead in half, they could significantly cut the price of their pianos without affecting the "quality" of their pianos. They come out of the factory just the same either way. Then they would sell more of their own pianos and not have to resort to "other brands" to keep the money coming in.
Also, I have converted my Steinway to the new WNG composite action, and it blows away the performance and reliability of any wooden action. It's a travesty that Steinway insists of staying with wooden actions in order to make it a "genuine" Steinway, and not a "Stein-was" as they call any alteration not "authorized" by them. They have a conflict of interest there, as I believe they now own Renner that builds the very wooden actions they use. They aren't a "better" piano because they use "traditional" wooden actions. Don't be duped!!!
Kawai uses the composite materials only for their repetitions, but the WNG composite products are far better, especially for technicians that rebuild pianos. For starters, Kawai still uses wooden shanks instead of composite shanks like WNG developed, which are far superior in every way. Also, the bushings in the Kawai composite parts still use the traditional felt that can't hold tolerances like the hard bushings developed in the WNG parts, and won't last nearly as long. Therefore, Kawai has only done "half" the job, and doesn't make it available to technicians to rebuild actions from any other brands. WNG on the other hand can be fully customized for ANY brand and makes retrofitting very possible to improve actin geometry and solve other touch weight problems.
WNG composite parts, along with the David Stanwood "Precision Touch Design" (PTD) protocols makes for an unbelievably even and responsive action not found in any brand (except Mason & Hamlin that WNG was developed with) that still uses wooden actions and obsolete methods of key balancing.
Thanks for this video and your information.
You are correct - the NY Steinway has among the highest production costs in the industry because of its location. But you are forgetting something. The NY Steinway is also for better or worse the most hand made piano in the world.
This allows the Steinway to be built differently than any other mass produced piano in the world. The most important difference is the single piece rim construction. Other pianos are built with inner and outer rims often made of different materials. This is why the Steinway is more resonant and tonally complex than other instruments.
The single piece rock maple rim allows the Steinway to resonate like a drum and get that bass growl that made them famous. Also in todays ever shrinking piano market the Steinway still commands more on the used markets than other high end pianos.
do this similar video but more specific to the Essex Line
Here you go! 😃
ruclips.net/video/QMXLXv_Iwug/видео.htmlsi=SZP1yGU5oNttYjsR
@@tommymenesespianotuner Thank you for making and posting that Video. I left a comment on it.
What is the difference between a Kawai GX-2 and a Boston GP-193? The Boston is a couple of inches longer, but what about tone and playing experience?
I’m a former Steinway rep. I worked in Southern California for years. It’s fairly common knowledge that Kawai builds the Boston line in Japan and Pearl River builds the Essex line in China. They are NOT built by Steinway.
They are produced to give customers a choice at the lower price points that had traditionally been dominated by stencil pianos built in Asia and Indonesia. I cannot recommend them. I played literally hundreds of instruments and my takeaway was Kawai’s Black series was preferable to Boston and the Hailun’s were head and shoulders above the Essex line. If you want a Steinway - get a Steinway. Avoid buyers remorse.
Thanks for the info! Great to hear from an actual former Steinway rep!
Is this the same for Essex pianos? Also branded as design by Steinway and Sons?
Yes! I am going to answer that question in an upcoming video!
Here you go!!
ruclips.net/video/QMXLXv_Iwug/видео.htmlsi=CeoMVGg1f5LJOLcm
What does "wide tail" mean?
The "tail" of the piano, ie the end farthest from the keyboard, is wider than usual. Most grands have it tapering down to a narrower angle. The wide tail ones give more scope for increased soundboard area and bass string length, at the cost of looking somewhat ungainly.
Still a bit confusing but anyhow you got all angles covered
Well, perhaps I can help… Where are you confused? Any questions?
There was literally nothing confusing at all about this presentation or the detailed information he gave. What makes it “still a bit confusing” for you?