The Army's Navy: The Army Transportation Service, Water Division
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2019
- In this episode of The History Guy, he examines the history of another piece of his hat collection and recalls that sometimes the badge is as interesting as the hat. The Army Transportation Service, Water Division is a forgotten fleet that deserves to be remembered.
An original version of this episode was created for History Guy patrons on Patreon. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider a subscription. www.patreon.com/thehistoryguy
This is original content based on research by The History Guy. Images in the Public Domain are carefully selected and provide illustration. As images of actual events are sometimes not available, images of similar objects and events are used for illustration.
This episode deals with violent historical events. All events are portrayed in historical context and for educational purposes. No images or content are primarily intended to shock and disgust. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Non censuram.
More information on the history of the Civil Air Patrol:
history.cap.gov/
Details regarding all those lost serving with the Civil Air Patrol:
history.cap.gov/files/original...
Find The History Guy at:
Facebook: / thehistoryguyyt
Patreon: / thehistoryguy
The History Guy: History Deserves to Be Remembered is the place to find short snippets of forgotten history from five to fifteen minutes long. If you like history too, this is the channel for you.
Subscribe for more forgotten history: / @thehistoryguychannel .
Awesome The History Guy merchandise is available at:
teespring.com/stores/the-hist...
Script by THG
#ushistory #thehistoryguy #usarmy
Old Vietnam Era Army sailor here! Once served at Fort Eustis, still the place to "Sail Army." If I had a dollar for every blank stare I've gotten telling people what I did in service oh these many years, I could retire in luxury instead of near poverty! Thanks for the able coverage of an obscure story.
Your attention is invited to the 1965 TV series (lasted one year), "The Wackiest Ship in the Army." Starred Jack Warden and Gary Collins. Army Transportation Corps, yay! Retired Army Transporter, been on the ocean, deep ocean, 100-foot tug. Good job, History Guy.
I myself was originally an 88L(watercraft engineer) in the US Army. The school and boats are both in Ft. Eustis VA. There's also a very interesting museum dedicated to the transportation Corp at Ft. Eustis.
The Army still has a navy, actually! One of my friends retired last year after 20 years in the Army Transportation Corps, and one of his last assignments was as a chief warrant officer on board a Besson-class logistics support vessel of 4,000 tons displacement.
They sure do! I was an M.S.C. Navy Reserve Officer back in the '90s' and we were down in Oakland at one of the schools. We went down to one of the docks where we saw a HUGE ocean-going ship that everyone assumed was another Navy vessel. Nope, turns out it was an Army inter-island vessel! Kudos, Army!
Was about to post this myself. Thanks!
I was a US Army boat instructor during Vietnam stationed at Ft Eustis Va. I taught boat operations on the LCM8
I served in an Army hovercraft unit, there were still boat units based out of Ft. Eustis and Ft. Story into the 1990s. The Army's Aviation branch wore the Transportation Branch emblem until we finally got our own branch emblem, the prop and wings
As a kid i used to watch yall in the chesapeak on those things. I think it was there or the james river. My mom was stationed out of eustis and my dad norfolk. Salute to yall. Thank you for your service
I served in the 331st trans, Fort Story Virginia, 1984 to 1986.
In 1967, after completing Army basic training, I was sent to the US Army's Transportation School at Ft Eustis, VA. Having been drafted, I had no choice in what training I was to receive.
As it turned out, the Army sent me to the 61A10 - Basic Seaman course. It was just a two week intro course after which one could request further training in either deck or engine room crew.
I chose deck and continued my training in the 61B20 course. Those who finished in the top 1/3 of the 61B20 then continued with the 61B30 - Harbor Craft Boatswains course where one received advanced training piloting LCM-8s, LCUs and tug boats. By the time we graduated, the need for boatswains in Viet Nam had diminished and most of us were sent to Ft Story, VA to learn how to operate an amphibious vehicle called a LARC-V.
In the end, I ended up being sent to the munitions port near Sattahip Thailand to work as a stevedore supervisor at the only munitions port in Thailand.
Keep it moving. Spearhead of logistics.
Never thought I'd see my old job honored.
Dad (in the icon photo at left on the right side of the photo with his brother in Paris, in April '45), a WWII bombardier-navigator in the 9th AF of the USAAF, grew up in Bayonne, NJ, which was home of the Army's Military Ocean Terminal which finally closed in the late 20th century. Back in the '70's, as I was getting interested in WWII, he drove us over a low bridge that bisected the terminal to show me the hundreds of vessels owned by the Army. I remember him telling me what you had said at the end of this episode, that the Army had more ships (really sea going vessels of all types) than the Navy. That always stuck with me, but I never knew how much bigger until you quoted the stats at the end of this episode. So, thank you for that!
There was a prototype of the badge that also included the infantry's crossed rifles and quartermaster's key, but it was found that the wearer would tip over when not donning the hat very carefully. One of the most sought after and dangerous collectible items in military hat history!
During WWII, my father served on the USAT Uruguay, a troop transport. At first he was a Cadet and then an Engineering Officer. After the war he had a long career at the Brooklyn Army Terminal working for MSTS (later MSC)
As a personal comment, when I was at school due to family difficulties I never got on as well as I should I hated all the lessons.
Now I am finding great pleasure in learning and dipping into your videos is giving an older guy great pleasure thankyou
I worked on Hill Air Force base in Utah from '08-'13, and I remember seeing US Army rail locomotives all the time offloading ordnance at the little rail yard on the base. I always knew the Army had a rail service when I was in the Army, but I never saw it for myself until after getting out of the Army and going to work for the Air Force.
During the first Gulf war, I did reserve service as a Navy officer for the Military Sealift Command out of Bayonne NJ
Thank you for that. I was on the Saratoga in the Red Sea. Did we happen to replenish from you? :)
I really enjoyed the Saturday night live spoof of the navy recruiting spots “Port of Call: Bayonne NJ” then they showed deck force on a carrier, chipping paint, using needle guns, etc. slinging red-lead, hanging over the side slapping paint from a bo’sun’s chair, loading stores, straight out the most miserable work aboard ship, as part of that great liberty port, Bayonne! We had to load ammo at weapons station Earle NJ a few times, that sucked too!
Hey Evan,
I was a Reserve LT with M.S.C. in Dallas attached to 111 Korea. We never deployed to the war but I have spent LOTS of time in Korea. Also ran a lot of EXs from Florida using east coast ports, including "Beautiful" Bayonne!
My Uncle Tom told me years ago about the transport he embarked on at the West Coast for the Phillipines. The ship had capsized when first launched. The Navy refused to take the ship so the Army bought it, filled the bilge with concrete and used it as a transport ship. It had a sickening roll which resulted in predictable results among both crew and passengers. Wish I remembered the name.
My Dad was in the Army during WWII. He was in the Coastal Artillery. All that said, he worked on mine layers and mine sweepers off the coast of Virginia int he Atlantic. In many ways he ended up there by providence because he had served four years in the Navy 37-41prior to the war, but still had to register for the draft upon discharge.
i live a mile from Joint Expeditionary Base Little Creek-Fort Story, a combined interservice amphibious Navy/Army sea and inland waterway operation. the "Water Army" runs cargo, personnel, etc., in coordination with naval transport, to support army forces. your water division lives on! good vid!
8:08
Old Doc Coolie, the first Motrin dealer in the US military.
Good thing if wasn't a liquid pill or he'd been the first to make 'tussin. "You almost out of robitussin? Put some water in there make more 'tussin. Have a fever? Take some 'tussin. You going blind? Put some 'tussin on then balls. You break yo leg? Poor some 'tussin on it!
Motrin cures all that and changing your socks.
My father spent most, if not all of his 22 yr Army career in the Transportation Corps. from the Aleutian islands in 1942 , Normandy shortly after d-day on a DUK to a landing craft at Incheon he spent many summers in Iceland and Greenland Crewing a BARK ,A huge AMPHB .
As an Army Warrant Officer, I would love to see you make a video about the Army’s Mine Planter service growing into today’s Warrant Officer Corps (even though the Army stripped the Corps designation from us... and we’re now a “cohort”)
I have a friend who is a commissioned NOAA officer, two who are Army sailors (Warrant and senior NCO on current Army watercraft), and I did two tours on an MSC chartered container ship. So I can say I have some connections to some of those hats!
I was stationed at Fort Eustis, as part of 7th Transportation Group. It's had some name changes, but the misson is still going strong, vessels and all.
Same here 331st trans 1983 to 1986, lackley 30s AKA blow boats. Saw the new Barracks go up, the old ones go down. The new hangers get built, the runway get poured to the ocean. I believe the base got turned over to the Navy in 2005.
I once took a tour of the Houston Ship Channel and one of the weirdest ships we passed was from the Military Sealift Command. You don't normally think of the Port of Houston as being part of a military base.
Who would have ever thought that in World War 2 the US Army had a bigger navy than the US Navy did? Another fascinating snippet.Thank you.
Except it's a sealift force, nothing to do with surface or subsurface combatants, etc, the actual dominance of a maritime space
Mostly small boats.
@@HemlockRidge True, but the same was true of the Navy. As the video mentions, the total cargo and passenger capacity of the Army's ships was actually a bit more than double that of the Navy's.
@@vbscript2 No warships. Warships are not designed to carry a bunch of passengers.
Amazing video as always.
When you mentioned the USAT's that the US used during the Spanish-American war, I thought you would mention one particular ship that had a HUGE impact in my county . . the Philippines.
That one particular ship is the USAT Thomas.
She brought the first few american teachers to our country and they were then known as "thomasites"
And that was the very beginning as to why I and the majority of us Filipinos speaks, reads and writes in English.
If the greatest gift that the spanish gave to us filipinos is Christianity, then greatest gift that the americans gave to us was Education.
It’s a Royal signals officers hat. Above major.
Lower ranks are just black.
Re Jimmy always faced right. Except on mess dress when you had a left one too. One on each lapel facing in. I still have my red mess kit after 25 years of leaving :). Glad to be a Patreon
Yes- a senior officer hat. Mine is a very nice example- apparently custom made for an officer with means. I will have an episode on it at some point. "Jimmy," I understand, was a boxer who was a member of the corps, and apparently had a resemblance to the Mercury on the badge.
www.royalsignalsmuseum.co.uk/cap-badge-history/
However if you know the character Andy Cap there are a few images of Andy standing holding a beer with his two fingers raised and his leg raised looking exactly the same as Mercury. The Corps motto Certa Cito; (Swift and Sure). And also a Masonic lodge Certa Cito 8925 of which I am the current master :)
I had a brother-in law who operate a tug boat that hauled freight from Seattle to various Alaska ports. He was in the Army with the rank of Sargent but was the tugs Captain
I serve with the army transportation corps for many years, and one of our tasks with a unit out of Brockton, the 1173rd TTBN from Massachusetts, was tasked with loading the 101st airborne in Jacksonville Florida on military Sealift ships to get them across the water to begin the invasion of Iraq in 2003. We loaded the 101st in record time and continuously set records from loading ships to get them across the water to the fight.
You could have done the load many times faster if the civilian truckers had maintained their serials (25 trucks). Instead they chose to band together in one long convoy after they left Ft. Campbell. This caused major problems for the port (JAX). And many very mad drivers who had to wait in a cue to offload.
Had they kept their serials, it would have been much smoother on all truckers. Not to mention a massive security problem in bunching up like that.
I think the sister unit is out of Tupolo, MS. They did the JAX load in the first desert war. I went to a year long school with some of their officers.
US Marine Aviation: The US Navy’s Army’s Air Force
B Llaneta Semper Fi!!! from a Semper Paratus!
B Llaneta Do they do any search and rescue missions? That'd make them the Navy's Army's Air Force's Coast Guard.
USMC, the men's Department of the Navy.
@@richardc7721 Tell that to the Navy Veterans of Midway/Coral sea/Iron Bottom sound... I realize it's funny and tradition for inter service rivalries...
Yet when it comes to the US marines claiming to be the "Men" of the navy, I say watch some documentaries on the MEN of the US carriers during WW2, and MANY MANY MORE..
Wrong.The USMC,the US army & the US navy are different branches.
Great video. I remember my Grandpa, who was in the Coast Guard, telling me that the Army actually operated more boats than the Navy. I always thought he was talking about small craft. I never knew that they operated large ships.
At Ft Eustis, VA is the Army Transportation Museum. It is worth a visit. The Army's tugboat operators are also trained out of there. Yes, tugboat operators.
My father spent time time on these boats in both WWII and Korea. In the late '70's he joined me onboard my Navy vessel USS Hector on a "Tiger Cruise" and sailed from Hawaii back to the mainland. I rarely saw him in that time as I was standing watches or working, but when I saw him he had a grin from ear to ear.
I got to use the services of the US ARMY 1088th Boat Transport Company in Central America during the war in the early 80's. We used them to move around the coasts and rivers for insertions. Loved this episode sir. Thank You for bringing back fond memories
My hats off to you, sir. Thanks again for your interesting, well done story.
🤗☕
Careful taking your hat off around this guy, he's liable to *take it* !
Strange as it may seem, the winged wheel is also the emblem for the Detroit Red Wings! Another great story History guy. I bet that you have a marvelous collection of hats!
While they are strikingly similar, there doesn't seem to be a historical connection. The Red Wings emblem, of course, is a commemoration of Detroit automobile manufacturing. The Red wings emblem is an automobile wheel, while the Army Transportation Service emblem is a railroad car wheel.
Understood, it just reminded me of the Wings emblem. Perhaps the wing on a wheel symbol means "Rolling with grace". Would you happen to know?
We Marine Deck and Engine Officers in the Army trace our lineage to the 1918 Coastal Artillery Mine-layer boat Warrant Officers. It was interesting to see the historical background prior to the minelayers. BTW, the audio content was warbly.
Excellent observation! Not only did the old Coast Artillery Corps have its own fleet of minelayers (and presumably a substantial number of small-craft associated with the Harbor Defense battalions) as well, so did the Signal Corps. Signal's vessels were responsible for laying and maintaining transoceanic cables. In addition, during WW2 the Army Air Forces' Air-Sea Rescue Service maintained their own fleet of smaller vessels.
@@williamsaltiel-gracianmph613 So, in addition to the Navy's Army's Air Force, the Army's Air Force had a Navy?
Now we just need Marine Aviation to develop an air-dropped orbital launch capability, that way the Navy's Army's Air Force will have a Space Force.
"The Army had a Navy, bigger than the Navy" Now I'm just a poor boy from out of state (Aussie) but wouldn't that mean that there would not be an "Army/Navy" football game....but rather an "Army/Army" football game? Hmmm "Who is gonna win this year? Army or Army?" Love your informative, enchanting and sometime bizarre content mate!
Army people give Navy people grief because of their web feet. We give Marines grief because we scored higher than 68 on our ASVAB AKA military entrance exam. We give Air Force guys grief because they don't know which way to point there Matty Mattel toy. We had to develop our own boat and Logistics system because the Navy couldn't get it done. I was part of that Logistics system 1983 to 1986. Sit back have a beer in November on Gameday and Go Army!
The US Merchant Marine in WWII is a little known but vital to victory with huge risks and losses, part of maritime history.
However, a movie film was made (Action in the North Atlantic) starring Humphrey Borgart, that brought the perils of the Merchant Marine to public attention in 1943: __ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_in_the_North_Atlantic
We don't usually think about how our servicemen got to the various battle sites in Europe and the Pacific because we know that they were carried on ships. Today's video shows it was a whole lot more complicated than we imagined. Thanks for another great video.
Glad you mentioned NZ. When US troops were stationed at the training camp at Paekakariki 50 miles from the capital. the US forces as a gesture of goodwill took on duties with the NZ coastguard and patrolled the area from Wellington to Levin. All run by the US Army Transport water division. The camp is now known as Q E 2 Park. still complete with the original tram line from the main gate to th centre of the camp.
The spiderweb of interconnecting military asset function in DoD organization never ceases to amaze me lol
Thank you for highlighting this and making sense of it for civilian and military personnel alike, HG 👍
The Sail Army! My dad started his work life on the docks and ships in Victoria BC but in the late 50s he came to work in the US Merchant Marine(and I have a great story about him getting here)out of Seatle, well long story short he served most of his life in the TC. In Vietnam, he was the CO of a heavy boat unit in the 329th TC Heavy Boats and he was assigned to NASA in the late 70s/early 80s as a ship's engineer and he was aboard an army ship from FL to Panama when he was called back and told he had terminal cancer so he retired and died a year latter. He served(under age)in Canadian Merchant Navy in WWII. As a tike he was the masscot for and when he was older he playd fotttie for the Victoria Warf Rats. When I was born dad was the port commander in Cadiz, Spain
My grandfather served as an Engineers Mate on the Y-69, a coastal tanker that was part of the Army Transport Corp. He was a civilian and did not receive GI benefits. He told of having a prior Y-class tanker hit a mine so he was reassigned to the Y-69, on which he finished the war. He also claimed to be the first ship up the Seine after Le Havre was taken by the Allies. His tanker carried gasoline. He died in 1971.
I wore that U.S. Army transportation patch, having been stationed on the port of Pusan, now Busan, South Korea, 01/1969-02/1970, in the 70th Transportation Bn, and living on a barge built with add on decks and we had Mike boats along with civilian operated tug boats and LSTs.
The photo of a port at 11:17 shows bridges going from the buildings on land to the buildings on the piers. Naval Supply Center San Diego and the Navy Pier had a similar bridge, which connected the warehouse on land with the warehouse on the pier from which ships would be loaded with supplies and provisions. The warehouse had a network of conveyor belts moving bins with parts. The bridge had a walkway but also a conveyor belt which connected the warehouse's network to a receiving center on the pier. Almost all of that is now long gone.
The winged wheel reminds me of the winged wheel on the Detroit Red Wings hockey teams jerseys. Maybe this is were they got the idea in the early 1930's.
Interesting idea but evidently not.
_History of the Detroit Red Wings - Wikipedia_
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Detroit_Red_Wings
The team adopted the Red Wing name and logo in 1932. The new owner, James Norris, got the idea from a team he had played for at the turn of the century called the Wheeled Wingmen, which had cycling roots.
european militaries used a winged roadwheel for rail services long before the 1930s.
No, but the Chicago Blackhawks definitely got their name from the US Army. One of the original owners served in the 86th Division during WWI, which carried the nickname "Blackhawks". The division, in turn, was named for Chief Black Hawk, a war leader of the Sauk tribe (which lived in present-day Illinois) who fought for the British in the War of 1812.
I wore a white saucer MP cover on my head while wearing the Transportation Core patch on my sleeve at Ft Eustis, VA in the 1970s. TRADOC was the best duty for a young MP; street patrol, regular police work.
One day I was ordered to take a report on a pretty large ship. I had no idea the Army had a Navy.
It wouldn’t have been for me, I volunteered for the Army to keep my feet on solid ground.
My Dad used to wear the "pith" helmet for parade every Sunday on Miami Beach, Fl. while an Air Cadet in 1942. He also wore it on guard duty to prevent landings from submarines during the happy time.
Transport and supply is never a mission that either of the services wants to do until they absolutely need the supplies. It was made worse by the historically poor cooperation between the Navy and Army. Pre-WW2, both services were poorly funded and the Navy wanted fighting ships and not cargo ships. For a similar reason, the USMC traditionally used older, hand-me-down weapons because the Army got the new stuff. As we entered the war, everything expanded exponentially and each branch took care of their own needs as best as possible. Each branch had their own supply and each had their own Navy, their own Air Force and their own Ground Forces. The trouble started when they had to cooperate.
The Army didn't have enough ships to serve as transports during WW2, so we had to rely on our Allies to get across the Atlantic. More Americans were carried on British liners like the Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, and Aquitania than were moved on American ships. Many Liberty and Victory ships ended up being converted to troopships to gets the US troops home after VE Day, in May, 1945, because they had to be quickly re equipped, and moved to the West Coast to prepare for the invasion of Japan. The Manhatten Project was probably the best kept secret of the war.
A segment close to my heart, for I served in the US Army Transportation Corps in the 1980s as an operations officer in MOTBA (Military Ocean Terminal, Bay Area) located at the now decommissioned Oakland Army Base. Army's Navy? True dat! Good memories, too!
I left in 79. After TOBC in late 72 went through Salvage Diving School at Eustis in 73, USA Port Pusan and OIC Chinhae Ammo Pier in 76, and after TOAC in 77 went to MOTSU in 78 and left in 79. Should have stayed!
This is a wonderful in depth quicky of the importance and complexity of Logistics during Wartime!!!
Keep Up the Good Work!!!! History keeps us from maybe repeating it!!! If people listen and learn!!!
Long Live Our Constitutional Republic!!!!
I recall something about an installation where the Air Force runs the ferry, the army runs the flight, and the navy runs the ground forces.
Leading up to OIF in early 2003, all those present at Kuwait Naval Base (Camp Patriot) comprised "a small constellation of insignia and devices," too, along with the Military Sealift Command. :)
I commanded and Army coastal cargo boat for two tours in Vietnam. The 1098th Medium Boat unit was stationed in DaNang and had LCM's and larger LCUs. We would load up with 40 tons ammo and then go up or down the coast and then up rivers to drop off our cargo at remote bases. We then picked up "retrograde"....equipment that had been damaged in battle and was being sent back for repair or salvage. We wore regular Army uniform and sometimes that caused confusion. One of our gunners got wounded on a mission and was Medivac'ed out of Chu Lai. When he got to a China Beach hospital the nurse asked him what unit he was with and he replied "1098th Medium Boat Company". The nurse looked at his army uniform and thought he was confused. Later, a doctor asked him the same question and got the same answer at which point the doctor said "The Army doesn't have boats". Eventually they found out that he indeed was in an Army Transportation boat unit. After our C.O. heard what happened he had big round sew-on patches made for the left pocket on our uniforms that showed a LCM and in bold letters said 1098th MEDIUM BOAT COMPANY DaNang Vietnam. That solved the problem. Later when the unit stood down I was re-assigned to the John U. D. Paige, a U.S. Army coastal ship the size of an LST that ran up and down the coast of Vietnam. The Navy had river combat boats in Vietnam but the Army had way more boats that moved all the cargo and ammo which made them prized targets for the Viet Cong.
As a former sailor I'm fine with the Army having their own Navy, after all the Navy has their own Army and the Navy's Army even has it's own Air Force, ;)
Don't forget the Marines' checks are signed by the Navy
And the Commandant of the Marine Corps answers to the Chief of Naval Operations
That’s what Robert said
@@chipschannel9494 no.
That's not what Robert said.
Robert was talking about ships & planes not checks, generals, & admirals.
@@joecombs7468 whatever! Have a nice day
I used to work for M.S.C., I was a helmsman for them, & knew a little about the U.S.Army history of it, but not much. Thanks for filling in the gaps for me.
I was more than enriched by this episode of forgotten History. Once again The History Guy come Sailing Through for us.
A few years ago I viewed a government surplus auction site and nearly bid on an Army tugboat. The vessel had been used to tow ammunition barges according to the website. My buddy who was Coast Guard retired, warned me not to bid unless the minimum bid was lowered. I was hoping to turn it into an unconventional floating home.
While I was a student at Naval Nuclear Power Training command in Goose Creek, SC. A few of soldiers that operated the water transports were down there for training in Charleston, As a Petty Officer 3rd Class I had an interesting conversation with a Corporal about life at sea and diesel vs nuclear propulsion.
I’m still in the Army’s Navy. I have been doing this for 20 years and we still have a role to play in maritime transportation. Recently they have tried to get rid of us but I’m guessing someone watched your video because they decided to put the breaks on eliminating our field. Perhaps you could give this lecture to some people who truly need to remember this history because they seem to not remember.
Great, little known piece of history. My father was with the 32nd Infantry Division and the rag tag fleet probably aided him and the 32nd in New Guinea.
Excellent episode Professor. Government bureaucracy at its finest or what I like to call the Department of Redundancy Department.
Oh, you think you could have done better? Hindsight is 20/20. Things always look as though there’s no method to the madness when one is in the middle of it, and of course the answers are pretty easy to see after different things are tried.
So what do you think should have been done in the beginning that was overlooked, hmm?
The old saying in the Army is we have more boats than the Navy and more aircraft than the Air Force.
Yes.
The Navy has more aircraft than the Air Force, I was told. I suppose the Army does, too, being such a large branch.
@@cranki6316 The Air Force has 5,396 aircraft compared to 3,900 for the Navy. The Army is close to the Air Force at 5,117 aircraft, but the Air Force generally maintains a small lead in total numbers but a much larger lead for fixed wing aircraft, with about 80% of US Army aircraft being helicopters.
Well both the airforce and the navy were spawned from the army. They're the army's children, lol. 😂
And the spaceforce is spawned from the airforce so it's the army's grandchild, lol. 😂👍
My dad was in the ATS during WW!!, he was the third mate on several Liberty ships in the South Pacific. When I asked about his service experiences he always said that he was in the "brown shoe" navy. Now I see why.
I appreciate your growing collection of "covers." When I was in the Navy I thought I had learned them all, incliding three types of chin strap. Half inch wide gold, quarter inch wide gold, and what eventually became two applications of the half inch wide black chin strap. Ha! Little did I know. So carry on, History Guy. I am still learning.
My mentor Karl Kortum was in the small Ship Section of the ARMY; and in my own life I sailed across the atlantic aboard the schooner Effie M. Morrissey which worked the Arctic seas around greenland. TM retired but still interested
I worked with several of the old MSTS ships officers early in my career.
An interesting story is the history of the German surface raider warships. I worked with an old Merchant Mariner Chief Engineer who had been captured by a Raider in the S Atlantic when the US Texaco Tanker "California" was sunk. Eventually spending the war as a Japanese POW.
Had a friend that was an Army tugboat skipper. Told me about pushing barges up the Mekong. I didn't know such a thing happened until he told me.
When I was a recruiter back in 06 we had a 88K watercraft operator working in our office. Very interesting MOS. Like Lynch below me says, the 88k told me the Army had more boats then the Navy. I was surprised by that.
During WWII my father served with US Army Amphibious Engineers in the southwest Pacific. I always thought these Amphibious Engineers were considered the Army's Navy. He served in various operations in New Guinea, the invasion of Zamboanga in Mindanao, and the invasion of Lingayen Gulf. He was in Manilla at the time of surrender, then went straight to Aomori, Japan, and helped in the disposal of all the weapons of war at that location. He was a second lieutenant at the time and captained a LCM making continuous round trips to the beaches ferry troops while under fire. When he got out of the army in 1950 he was Army Captain. He continued to work for the US Army until 1974 when he retired.
Have you done one on the LSTs (Landing Ship Tank) of WWII? My Dad (Navy) earned one of his purple hearts on an LST at Leyte Gulf. He wouldn't speak of it, but as I understand it, the Navy and Army had serious issues about who commanded the LSTs and where. The Navy officers had to get the ship to the landing location, the Army officers had to beach the ships, and then disembark. The question was , when did the Navy give command of the vessel over to the Army? The sailors said 'LST' stood for 'Large Slow Target', and only volunteers made up the Navy contingent.
Yet again, another terrific video with much detail that I did not know about.. Thanks THG for being my ‘new thing learned today’ item..
3:10 That really is clever. Trains, planes, automobiles, and ships.
HG, Truly enjoyed your episode on the MSTS. My father Captained the FS-244 in the Aleutian Islands during WW II. An episode on the Aleutian conflict would be fascinating starting with the bombing of Dutch Harbor. Thanks for your continuing education.
The 1st thing that came to mind, viewing the winged wheel, is our Detroit hockey team. The Red Wings emblem represents the automobile.
Your channel is a high light to many. Thank you.
Intriguing. My father worked as a civilian for Naval Intelligence in Frankfurt, Germany from 1954-1956. We sailed one way on the General Butner and the other on the General Patch. (Don't remember which was which - Old_Guard = old now, but I was young then.) Based on this video I had to look them up.
USS Admiral R. E. Coontz (AP-122) (1944 - 1946) (U.S. Navy, presumably military crew)
USAT General Alexander M. Patch (1946 - 1950) (U.S. Army, probably civil service civilian crew)
USNS General Alexander M. Patch (T-AP-122) (U.S. Navy, civil service civilian crew)
Poor old Admiral Coontz got the short end of the stick. He was the second Chief of Naval Operations, and lobbied for conversion of the battle cruisers USS Lexington and USS Saratoga to aircraft carriers. That was actually kind of important later on.
The Navy (I believe) adheres to nautical superstition that it is bad luck to change names of ships. The Coast Guard definitely does - the polar icebreaker I was assigned to started out as USS Burton Island then became USCGC Burton Island.
Old_Guard: the USS/USCGC BURTON ISLAND was oringinally one of the WIND Class that was loaned to the Soviet Union and was renamed BURTON ISLAND upon it’s return to the USN.....
Jeff swiney nope. You're thinking of the Westwind. My cousin did a Deep Freeze on that breaker just after they got it back from the Russians and that was an experience. I did the last three deployments on the Burton Island - Deep Freeze '77 and '78, plus Arctic West Summer '77, then decommissioned her. (Not just me, I had a lot of help.) After nearly two years on the ship, most of it sailing, I think I knew her pretty well. (Wikipedia agrees with me. Actually not sure how much of an endorsement that is.)
Happy to see the US Public Health Service represented - it’s pretty rare people remember. It isn’t the National Public Heath Service, but we can forgive a misspeak in such an excellent series of videos.
ruclips.net/video/qBkw9zFtqZc/видео.html
The History Guy: History Deserves to Be Remembered thank you, sir. We are so rarely thought of. I am not surprised, however, given the breadth and depth of your knowledge.
I was in the "Army's navy" in Viet Nam, operating the port facilities at Cam Rahn Bay. Our duties involved unloading ships and transport inland, so the only vessels we operated were lighters. But it was a vital job. Most deep sea transport was via USNS (leased) ships with Navy officers and civilian crews.
My stepfather, Sfc. David Chavez was a diesel mechanic. He serve two tours in Vietnam aboard Army landing crafts. In 1972 he served aboard
LT- 579 a tugboat of the US Army. Sailing as far wide as Thailand to Okinawa. Us kids join him in Okinawa. My brother and I sailed around Okinawa on one trip. I was sick as a dog¡
Thank you for posting this video in reference to the "Small Ships Section." I am in the process of publishing a book on the SS WEST TEXAS, which was in the Small Ships Section based in Australia and New Guinea. Very interesting part of WW2 history. Thanks.
When I was a kid I was a guest on the USAT General Maurice Rose. Nothing like a full Atlantic gale on one of these.
An interesting piece of history you may want to make a video about is the stand off at the Little Rock Arsenal in early 1861 which could have easily started the Civil War instead of Fort Sumter.
This is an interesting topic, being movement of troops to different theaters of operations. I was part of those in February 1964 on the USS General W. A. Mann (AP-112), a troop ship used to transport troops through out the Pacific during the early stages of the Vietnam War. It was built by the Federal Shipbuilding and Drydock Company of Kearny, NJ, in 1942-43. I believe their were sister ships as well. I think this would be an interesting topic for your history presentations.
Years ago I was told by my Dad or Uncle, I forget which but both US Navy veterans, that the US Army had more ships and and
Floating craft than the Navy and more aircraft than the Air Force. Now I see what they meant.
When I was in our Navy we coordinated now and then with MSTS ships. All their ships' names began with USNS, while we all were USS. They also were haze grey color but with a stripe on their funnel.
When I was stationed in Panama. The Army had LCMs Landing Craft Mechanized to transport us Paratroopers through the Panama Canal. They were Soldiers/Sailors of the Transportation Corps. They were indeed a unique branch of the Army. I say they were more elite than us Paratroopers of the 1/508th INF (Airborne) because of their size. We were an infantry battalion with over 500 plus guys that jumped out of airplanes. These guys were specialists on their own boats who are true professionals that maybe numbered just about 150 soldiers mostly with mechanics and supply. They had a heavier load during the Panama Invasion to support the Army during operations.
Not so much 'should be remembered' as 'never much reported AT ALL' !!
Really delightful enlightenment with this one !ñ
They became the Military Sea Transportation Service. As an Army brat I was a passenger on 5 of their troop ships as a kid. Then they became the Military Sealift Command. I was a Junior Engineer on the last of the troop ships (USNS Upshur) running to Viet Nam 1972-73.
Kool, I'm guessing you were Army. They let us lowly CivMar's go on the Army post there in Pusan. We were DOD employees after all. I've lifted many a beer with GIs, you guys are the best.
BTW - These were USNS (US Naval Ship) with civilian crews. USS = Regular blue jacket Navy.
There were some Navy medics assigned to the Upshur but the rest of us were civilians. That little Seaman's Club right outside the gate was a favorite of mine. I've been in a bunch of them and that one was the best. Brings back good memories.
Growing up an Army brat I saw how badly GI's were treated back then. So I found another line of work to possibly keep from being drafted. The commercial Merchant Marine was not draft deferrable but MSC was. Those were some bad times for this country and you were fortunate to get assigned to Pusan.
First rate military history, as usual. Thank you History Guy! Keep it up!
The question that remains is: Who commanded the wackiest ship in the Army? Great content as always! -edited
Might make a god movie title. :-)
Loved that picture.
Chances are it was one of the small ships operating in the SW Pacific out off Australia. There were all sorts of vessels, Pearling Luggers, ferries, luxury Halvorsen cruisers manned by Soldier/seamen, civilians from several countries and Aussie aborigines
Jack Lemmon commanded the Wackiest [Ship] in the Army.
I've absorbed a lot of modern military history, and always felt confusion and gaps about this topic. This presentation is a wonderful and coherent narrative of the army sea transportation evolution.
My dad was in the Army at the tail end of WWII. He was in Korea, working on landing craft, hauling stuff to and from the big ships that couldn't deal with the huge tides in the harbor. I believe he was part of an Army engineering battalion.
When my Dad was a career Army serviceman, our family returned from Germany in 1963 on the USATS General Alexander Patch. I thought it was a Navy ship and it certainly looked like one. I imagine my Army Dad even thought it was a Navy ship. It was not until the 2000's that I discovered it was actually a ship run by the Army to transport troops and dependents to and from Europe.
Here in the U.K. the Royal Air Force maintained a maritime section from 1918 to 1986 when it was disbanded.
A thumbs up and two blasts on the fog ,horn! I am still in the Philippines right now.
@holykuhrap Atay
In WWII my dad was shipped from Hawaii to Australia on what he described as a wooden Dutch boat that was not terribly sea worthy and their main rations was rice, that was invested with worms. He always said worms and not weevils. As he was a farm kid he would have known the difference. For the rest of his life he refused to eat anything that even somewhat resembled rice.
Here, in no particular order, are some interesting tidbits about the Army at sea.
The Army Transport Service was sometimes called the "Block Head" Navy be cause of the large number of Officers and Sailors (All Civilian) of Norwegian heritage in the crews.
Peace time transports of the ATS were configured like ocean liners with cabin class accomodations for Officers and Families and steerage for enlisted personnel. For those in cabin class the voyage was much like a civilian luxury liner with table waiters, deck chairs, cabin attendants, and other amenities commonly available to the privileged class. A voyage from San Francisco to Manilla, with stops in Hawaii and Guam could take 30 days or more.
Today, the Army Corps of Engineers, including tactical watercraft and the Civil Works fleet of dredges, barges, lighters, etc still exceed exceed the number of US Navy vessels in active service.
The US Army Transportation Corps continues to operate vessels in size from landing craft to tug boats to costal size cargo ships.
The traditional mission of the now defunct Army Coast Artillery was protecting American harbors from attack by sea. After WWI the Coast Artillery was given the additional responsibility of laying and maintaining protective minefields. This required sizeable watercraft which the Army acquired. These vessels and their crews were called the Army Mine Laying Service. The crews were Army enlisted men but there was a problem with assigning officers. The Army had a strict policy of not assigning commissioned officers as commanders of seagoing vessels least they appear to be encroaching on the Navy's bailiwick. The problem was solved by appointing captains who were neither enlisted men or commissioned officers. Today we call them Warrant Officers and they not only captain Army vessels they compose the bulk of Army Aviators and serve has highly trained technicians in virtually every Army technical field.
At one time Lajes Field in the Azores was operated by the Air Force but the only aircraft based there were flown by the Navy. The Army ran the port and had Army crewed tug boats assigned.
The Air Force maintains a small cadre of crash, rescue, and drone recovery boats manned by enlisted personnel wearing Navy dungarees and shirts. As an aside, in the movie "PT 09" all of the PTs are actually former USAF 85 foot Elco crash boats modified to look like 80 ft Elco MTBs.
The gold "Hatband" on the Health-Corps and other Services Combination Caps is actually a Chin Strap. :)
Kickinpony.66 I’m surprised History Guy didn’t know that since he collects military hats. One time I was on the flight line with the 146th Tactical Airlift Wing CA National Guard at their base in Van Nuys. This was a formation for a visiting dignitary. It was very windy and we were ordered to wear our chin straps as chin straps to keep our service hats on. The chin strap is normally purely a decorative item. Only time I ever saw it used that way.
A separate chin strap for honor guards etc is authorized for various ceremonial units of the different branches and the traditional chin strap retains its decorative function.