Zeke had five straight seasons of averaging at least 20 PPG early in his career and was a 20/10 guy for four straight seasons as well. This narrative of Zeke not even being close to better than CP3 as an all-time PG is a horrendous take.
I agree these young guys don’t understand the floor spacing, Put Thomas in this time he is killing I seen him play in rasp time I’ve seen Chris Paul it ain’t close.
2 NBA Championships 💍 and a Finals MVP 🏆 and he took his franchise to 3 Finals, 5 straight Conference Final all in 12 seasons. Isiah stopped scoring to help his team win. He could have averaged 26 a game easy but he played a role to have team success. This is something a lot teams aren’t doing today to make sure the team wins. Sacrificing individual success for team success. Also Isiah knew when his team needed ‘Superstar’ Zeke to push his team to victories.
@@TheIcemanthomas he became a great point guard with great stats.. Be after he left the Hornets.. He wasn't that guy ever again.. He didn't take over shit..
@@goku20015"didn't take over shit," He played against far better teams than IT ever did. IT won against an injured Bird and an injured Magic. CP3 played against the Spurs dynasty, the Heatles, the big 3 Celtics, the Warriors Dynasty, etc. The East was weak as fuck when IT played, and it still is. The west has always been the harder conference, and surprise surprise, CP3 always played in the West.
Piston would’ve won in 88 of Thomas didn’t get injured. None of y’all saw that. I’m older than all y’all and I barely remember that series with the exception of Isaiah getting injured.
That is what I'm saying these young guys wasn't probably even born in the 90's and their some basketball experts leave that to nba players who actually played the game
@@TheIcemanthomas bro nobody outside of Giannis and KD and Kobe was a crazy superstar he was losing with better teams than IT. Ain’t nobody cp faced come close to what Isaiah Thomas was or Michael Jordan.
I could use same logic and say, only reason pistons won the east is because birds back injury. And then only reason they could beat lakers was because magic was injured or Kareem retired.
@bobkeps2095 So part of my post got cut off I was saying this because he said they only beat Lakers because Magic got injured. My whole point is that Detroit went to the Finals 3 straight. The ECF 5 straight years. To dimish Isiah Thomas' accomplishments of beating the dream trio and still winning 2 Championship in that time period shows a lack of basketball knowledge. The greatest game in Finals history came from Thomas playing on that ankle that needed surgery afterwards scoring 24 points in the 4th on 1 foot. People don't give him his due because of Jordan's dislike for him. Thomas' teams beat Jordan more than he beat him. That ankle game kills the flu game. Thomas is better than Paul for one reason in the biggest games and his team needed he injury or not he played up to the occasion and it's not even close in comparison. Paul has never shown the ability to will his team anywhere as great as he is.
@@bobkeps2095 still don’t matter. As a 6 foot guard IsiahThomas led his team to multiple finals. Chris Paul chokes all the time in the damn playoffs. Let’s stop this nonsense.
@@alltheworldsastage8597 i would take Thomas over Paul everyday and twice in playoffs. My point is that logic has holes... what "dream trio" are u talking about tho? I know its not celtics because birds back brought him down. And pistons didnt beat celtics til after his accident that almost left him in a wheelchair for life... I could use same logic that you're saying I'm diminishing Thomas, and say you're diminishing magic Johnson.
this is annoying bro, Isiah my favorite player ever but y’all gotta start showing respect to the newer generation, ring or not, cp3 is in the convo when discussing the individual players
And this is what Marz means. If you have IT>CP3 just say it’s because of the ring, because there’s no way the worse scorer, passer, playmaker, shooter, and defender is better at basketball.
@@lucasrangel9150 you clearly don't know Zeke. Zeke was a better scorer because he was better at creating his own shot applied more pressure on the defense and was clutch. Zeke was also the better passer. You guys tripping. And he had better handles. The biggest difference in why Zeke is better is his leadership. Zeke early years he was on the reg putting up 23 and 12. He took that down to 18 and 8 so his team could win zeke has plenty of playoff games were he took over Chris dont
Joe Dumars does it at an ELITE level on Defense. And is a solid Offensive player. But it’s fair to say that they both did it on an elite level for their Era
I think when you boil down to the players at a individual skill, Chris Paul just has little to no weaknesses as Isiah Thomas. he edges him as a playmaker, efficiency, outside scorer, defender. Isiah just has the edge in volume scoring and winning the chips with a stacked squad. Those Bad Boys Pistons are the most underrated powerhouse team of all time.
Are you forgetting the collapses that chris paul had having games with 2 ,4 and 6 points in the dallas series, he is the architect of the blown 3-1 lead and is perpetually injured or failing in key moments.
The number one goal and most important thing is any game is to win. IT showed up when it counted. IT did whatever his team needed him to do. Mars talks about efficiency like thats the most important thing in sports. What about making the right play at the right time that helps ur team win. He better at that by far. His game help push he team over the top and he was the overwhelming leader of the team.
@@soniclover1309 look at chris Paul's playoff resume he collapses or is hurt did you see his finals against the bucks, not taking shots and giving his team under ten points isiah would never
CP3 has one of the greatest peaks of all time in basketball, how is it disrespectful? That also doesn't factor in how Isiah didn't make the playoffs after 30 while CP3 made all NBA teams in his mid-30s. Or how Isiah was on one of the best teams of the late 80s. Or how in his first ring he beat a Celtics team with an injured Bird, a Bucks team with an injured Terry Cummings (in his best season), a Bulls team with just Jordan and no help, and a Laker's team with an injured Magic.
I agree. CP3 is just a better player than Isiah Thomas. All-Time argument, it’s close, Zeke has the rings and fmvp, but CP3 should’ve won MVP in 2008, has more 1st teams, defense accolades and longevity
Throwing in longevity with no results isn't a strong argument. By that standard Vince Carter should be on everyone's top 10. Rings matter in all time great arguments because there's literally no one considered top 10 that doesn't have a ring and/or FMVP. He's a skilled player but all that skill doesn't mean anything when the chips are down and you're supposed to lead your team to the chip
@@doloslim7572 very wrong take. VC never showed any of those seasons he was a top 5 player. CP3 has shown that at least in 5 seasons. Isiah prolly only 4 seasons in his career as a top 5 player
Isiah thomas was more available more clutch had better transition offense, better team defense, better finishing, and anecdotally he had better moments in the playoffs also he won.
I agree IT has the better career but your missing the point, the argument their making isn’t that his career is better it’s the better basketball PLAYER, team defense has nothing to do with Isaiah as a individual, better playoff moments and rings have nothing to do with on court play, and as far as on court skill CP3 is better
@@SMGKOBE no winning and ability are not separate IT was available and healthy and performed more than cp3, that pistons team and several chris paul teams are equivalent in talent the difference is the things that IT brought which was leadership health, great penetration and distribution in a less spaced leauge and he was the engine of those pistons offenses and the results were two rings getting past Jordan.
@@SMGKOBE this makes no sense. Better playoff moments are literally on court play because they happen on a fucking basketball court. The better basketball player is the person that has the most impact on winning, which is Zeke
Zeke was the clear leader of his team and led them to back to back chips. Yeah he's over Chris Paul because of championships. But the bottom line is he was able to lead his team there twice, and probably could have 3-peated if he didn't get hurt in the '88 Finals. Chris Paul just has not shown that he's capable of that level of consistent postseason dominance, and that's the big difference.
Lmao you wanna talk about ITs injury, but disregard the fact that he had one of the easiest finals runs ever. Hurt Bird, hurt magic. And when playing a young Jordan he was getting absolutely clamped.
Crazy we holding a 37 cp3 more accountable than Devin Booker but it's cool kinda shows how crazy cp3 longevity is. Ppl really have Zeke over cp3 bc of rings that's it
@@bigwoke686 It isn't disrespectful to either player. Chris Paul is one of the most talented players of all time at his peak and he has translated that to the playoffs (unless he was hurt) If you want to say Zeke was better because he has two rings to CP's none or that CP gets hurt too much, that's cool. But it isn't disrepectful to compare two of the best PGs of all time to one antoher.
I never saw cp3 offensively take over ever!! I never saw him take over in big games when it's all on the line!! Zeek did that everyday!!! Don't forget his playoff heroics!!!
@@goku20015 San Antonio series in 2015. Utah series when Blake got hurt in 2017, Minnesota series in 2018. Pelicans series in 2022. Clippers series in 2021. Okc series in 2020. Most of that Memphis series when he was in LA. The series vs gsw before he got hurt in 2018. That San Antonio series in NOLA where he was TORCHING Tony Parker’s ass. It’s like y’all just never watched a chris Paul game on your lives. It’s weird. Y’all quick to remember all the bad but all the big series he had just escape y’all’s memories. Revisionist history is crazy thing. If y’all wanna say he’s inconsistent then cool. But to flat out lie and say he’s never taken over a game or series is idiotic behavior.
Zeke had what can’t be measured, heart and leadership. The numbers are comparable, I’ll give you that. However, Zeke has done everything CP3 has done, not the other way around. As a fellow 6ft PG, unlike CP3, led his Bad Boy Pistons to two back to back titles, with possibly the toughest road faced by a champion. Zeke didn’t get HOF talent teammates, but he pushed them to be their absolute best. And unlike MJ, all his teammates loved him. I love CP3, if not for Steph, I’ve got him as the best PG of my generation, but we have seen his teams be more talented than Zeke’s teams, have a more qualified coaching than Zeke, and seen them flame out more worse than any team Zeke has played on.
The problem is Chri Paul vanishes in the biggest moments. You can't say that about Isiah. Not only does he not vanish, many times, but he has also been the reason they won.
Lmao so just forgetting all the times a young Jordan had him absolutely clamped. He vanished big time in a lot of games. He just had a better team around him to hide his choking.
People keep saying "if you only count chips". Like duh , chips matter. Especially when ure comparing two stars on the team post when there were only 8 teams (before people hit me with the "but big shot Bob won 7 and magic won 5"). Rings are not redundant, and a lot of times with those stars it's will rather than skill.
@Kae Kae u need both. The ultimate aim is to win, if u have all the skills and are just fun to watch u might as well be an and 1 dude. Eye test, intangibles, chips etc...they all matter. Without the chips people might not look at Tim Duncan as the best power forward. He wasn't the most fun to watch and whilst fundamentally sound, was lacking in some areas. Being a winner sets you apart. Nobody plays the game just to display skill....if that's their goal then and 1 and Harlem globetrotters are probably hiring
@Revy's Bitch I didn't say only look at them. But its foolish to consider them redundant. Cos that's the aim of the game. There are centers who had more skills and cud do more than shaq. But there's a separator.
So zeke got hurt in the finales vs the Lakers he hurt his ankle and he cooked magic but they lost the series 🤷🏾♂️. Cp3 doesn’t have a memorable moment in the playoffs
I wish I coulda been there arguing for IT smh. Who is the better player is definitely debatable. Who is the better scorer is not. IT is a score first guard, he always was all the way until Chuck daily changed his game and changed the direction of the pistons. During crucial games IT would enter games with the mentality and ability to drop 30-40 points to will his team to victory. CP3 never had that mentality. They had 2 different mentalities. The argument about cp3 being a better scorer because he’s a better mid range shooter and 3 point shooter and off the ball scorer is just irrelevant to anything. Let’s put that argument to use right now! 38 year old cp3 is better mid range/3pt and off the ball scorer than JA morant. IS CP3 A BETTER SCORER OR HAS BEEN A BETTER SCORER THAN 2023 JA MORANT????? No… that’s stupid. Another example John Stockton was more efficient than IT in their day. Was Stockton a better scorer than IT? Noooo. IT was more 1 dimensional but he was just a better scorer. He took over games with his scoring more than his passing. He had 40 point bombs in the playoffs, he had a season averaging 25 a game. He’s just a better scorer. And if it weren’t for Chuck daily he might have multiple 25ppg seasons on his career but Chuck took the ball out his hands.
Efficiency is not irrelevant at all. I can accept IT was the better scorer and performer in the clutch, but he was not comparable player wise outside of that. He’s better because he got the rings, which is a fair point to say. CP had better defense, longevity, efficiency, playmaking/passing, leadership and adaptability, and is sexier. Besides that last one, CP should edge out IT player wise, but lose, if you feel that way, because Zeke actually won
@@Abbad1579 >He played 2 years with Harden Yes 2 years of Harden at his absolute apex , 2 of the greatest offensive seasons we’ve ever seen came back to back from Harden. Why are we running this ridiculous narrative now that CP3 wasn’t playing with anyone good he played with the damn MVP of the league that averaged 36 ppg.
CP3>Isiah is not a bad take honestly CP3 has more longevity and had sustained his career for much longer than Isiah.and their all around game is close passing is equal,CP3 is clearly a better playmaker,handles is equal,finishing kinda close but I’ll give CP3 the slight edge,mid range is not really close so overall u can have a case for CP3 being better than Isiah all time.
What about cp3 playoff collapses with doc rivers or his horrendous finals with the suns recently or his collapse to luka and the mavs, when did isiah thomas do any of these things?
Props to Chris Paul. He's a future first-ballot hall of famer, Olympian and a great team leader. But, Isiah Thomas is in a higher, rarer class than CP3. Thomas was more talented, though in many ways they are comparable players. In terms of impact on the court, Isiah ranks higher among the all-time greats. Paul has been a steady all-star and all-NBA player. In his 18th season and on his 5th team, he's still pursuing the lone achievement he's failed to reach - an NBA title. Isiah lead the Detroit Pistons from out the mud, to three consecutive NBA Finals appearances and back-to-back championships in an era otherwise dominated by the Magic Johnson-led "Showtime" Lakers and the Larry Bird-led Boston Celtics. He also led the Pistons to three consecutive post-season series victories over Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls. No other player in that era led his team to post-season series victories over Bird, Magic and Jordan. Isiah Thomas was the greatest point guard of his era - even better than Magic Johnson. Paul ranks as an historically great point guard - possibly top 10 all-time. He should be classified in the same range as Stockton, Kidd and Nash, but lower than Frazier and Payton. Kobe shares many of the same traits as Michael Jordan, but he's not Jordan. Likewise, Chris Paul shares many traits with Isiah Thomas, but he's not Isiah. There are different levels of greatness.
In what ways is IT more talented? Please tell me. Thomas didn't have to come out the mud. His team was literally fighting other teams. He went through an injured Bird, and and injured Magic. If they were both healthy, he isn't doing anything. You then bring up the Pistons beating a young Jordan. First of all, Jordan was clamping IT up. Isiah wasn't doing anything to Jordan. Second of all, the 80s bulls teams were complete garbage, where Michael was literally the only guy worth a damn. Isiah is not a better "PG of his era" than Magic. Magic won 5, and played bird in the finals consistently. Had more assists, better defense. There isn't a single argument you can make to put IT above Magic. The only argument for IT above CP3 is rings.
@@chrishansen8119 A book should be written on the number of injuries to great players that shaped the outcomes of championships. For example, in the 1987 eastern conference finals, the Pistons lost to the Celtics in seven games. Adrian Dantley, the Pistons leading scorer who averaged 25 ppg over the first six games, collided heads with Vinnie Johnson, the league's top 6th man - who averaged 23 ppg in the series - while diving for a loose ball near the end of the 3rd qtr. Dantley was knocked unconscious and Vinnie Johnson suffered a concussion. Dantley never returned to the game. Johnson returned to score one bucket before leaving the game permanently with 7 minutes remaining. The Celtics won the game 117-114. The Pistons beat the Bulls in 6 games in 1989, The Pistons were attempting to close out the Lakers in LA in game 6. That's the game in which Isiah scored 25 points in the third qtr on a severely sprained ankle. The Lakers escaped with a 103-102 win to get to game 7. Thomas attempted to play in game 7 but was too hobbled to be effective. The Pistons lost 108-105, due in large part to a phantom foul call against Laimbeer defending Jabbar in the last seconds. Jabbar missed his sky hook, but was bailed out by the referee. The following season the Pistons swept the Lakers to win 1989 championship. Magic suffered a strained hamstring injury in game 2, and couldn't return for the remainder of the sweep. But that time, it was clear to everyone that the Pistons had eclipsed the Lakers as the NBA's best team and Isiah had eclipsed Magic as the NBA's best point guard.
@@ProfessorofTruth No one every thought the Pistons were better than the showtime Lakers, at any point. And there is not a single god damn person in this world that thought Zeke surpassed Magic. You're just straight up lying lmao
@@TheIcemanthomaslook at when Karl malone busted zeek head open and he finished the game! Watch videos of zeek fighting centers twice his size.. Look at all the times he played with blood on his jersey.. He played in a more rough era and look at when zeek led his team to the Championship, twice!! Something Paul can't do!!!
Use to love the bad boy pistons. That team was just as good as a healthy Lakers at the time. The Pistons could have won that first championship if not for a terrible call for Kareem and Isiah getting hurt. So they didn't only win the next year because Magic got hurt. Also put some respect on Joe Dumars name he was a finals mvp, the rest of that squad was amazing they had guys who would be starters on other teams coming off the bench.
@@coltonpeterson1452 Not if you value them purely as how skilled and impactful they were. CP3's peak and longevity are better than Zeke's. CP3 made all NBA teams last year at 36 while Zeke retired at 32. CP definitely has an argument.
@@farhansarkar2394 do realize Zeke retired very early into his 30s right? He played a season an a half before he got hurt at 32 and retired. U say that like he played 20 years and was trash the rest of his career. Foh
Zeke went up against 2 of the Top 5 greatest teams of all time (Showtime Lakers & Mid 80s Celtics) & a team that will go on to become the Greatest team (Jordan & Pippen's Bulls) and defeated them. Meanwhile CP3 was blowing 3-1 leads to the Rockets with Harden on the bench. Marz going on "it's about winning" when you're talking about the Greats, yes it's about winning
Being a point guard is more than just passing, u r and extension of the coach, that pistons team rallied around Zeke, he was the heart and soul of those pistons teams. It’s like magic there r things about him that cannot be measured. He brought toughness lead by example. Man scored like 30 with literally 1 leg. Just throwing around stats doesn’t work for some players. Jesus u dudes love Chris Paul.
I have Isiah over cp3 mainly because staying healthy is a skill majority of injuries are not freak accidents but rather conditioning issues. I'd agree that Chris Paul is better at basketball then Isiah but (and I'm just speculating here) Isiah is most likely better at the intangibles that we don't see
@CPGoat #3 man I didn't think I would have to explain this. Your 100% correct ot was but the difference is he never let injury stop him from getting the job done at the time. Yes it shortened his career but IN THE MOMENT he played through them for better or worse. Cp3 has longevity but at the cost of always being gone halfway through a playoff series.
Scoring is simply putting the ball in the basket. Its not how you do it, its how often you do it. The light skin girl is talking about skill set or talent. That's different
Marz he’s better at things that you can’t look at a stat sheet to measure, he’s a better leader, he’s a more clutch performer (lol you can actually look at this), his resilience is higher than CP, more durable when the team needs him, his teammates actually want to go to war for him (most NBA players hate CP) etc. Zeke is better by a good margin.
@@tayluc777 bro what? Isn’t the reason he wasn’t liked because of the fact he’s a dirty player. And again you still talking in narratives and revisionist history
@@tayluc777 also you disregarding what I’m saying proves my point y’all can’t actually explain how cp isn’t better than zeke yet cp has almost every stat better then him in a more gifted era
Marz doesn't understand that winning is the reason they play the game lol, winning is the most important thing. This generation doesn't understand that. If players started to think like the fans of this generation there will be a lot of players okay with losing, thats not a good look
You want to why I he thinks that it's not his fault do you know who you should blame nick wright he's responsible for all this nonsense to defend with this goat argument
if we doing winning, than your not gonna like the all-time rankings when it comes to winning… guys like Bill Russell is your 🐐 and John Havlicek is most likely above your favorite players. They got the job done ☑️
if we doing winning, than your not gonna like the all-time rankings when it comes to winning… guys like Bill Russell is your 🐐 and John Havlicek is most likely above your favorite players. They got the job done ☑️
@moc I'm going to honest with you do you think bill Russell as great as he is I don't think he's winning 11 championships in the modern era of basketball but he's still the og of the nba
NCAA champion NBA champion. Pan Am Gold Medal winner He was the Regional and Final Four MOP, NBA Finals MVP and MVP of the gold medal game . When he won, he was the best player in the process.
@@Dusty3967 how the fuck did he get 3 college and NBA rings? He did it as the Most Outstanding Player in the Final Four and NBA Finals MVP If Paul was better, why the hell didn't he do it since a supposedly LESSER player did it in the same amount of college time and less NBA time? Some of you MFers talk plain stupidity.
Being from Chicago, I used to hate the Detroit Pistons but yall need to put respect on Isiah Thomas name. The man lead a team that beat Bird, Jordan and Magic in the playoffs to win the championship
'It's only because of the rings' - People don't understand how misleading this forced conclusion can be. There's a difference between a ring being a factor in whether you're remembered as a player as compared to when your impact as a player in those winning seasons was pivotal for the team get the rings. In a slightly related, but not completely, parallel note, you can give someone all the technical and physical attributes in the world, that doesn't guarantee anything concrete in terms of winning games. IT had that it factor which enabled his teams to win, you remove Isiah from those Pistons teams and they probably aren't winning a single ring. Chris Paul has never been able to get a ring and has in fact been associated with teams that flamed out in games, something that the PG really should be in charge of not letting happen.
So now the pistons had a great team and it wasn’t just IT but when talking about the goat they stay bringing up the piston and Celtic like they were ass and zero comp. Jordan the goat.
Isiah Thomas clears Chris Paul. I could argue about rings, the fact that CP3 comes up short repeatedly in big moments in the playoffs, and that Isiah Thomas is better at controlling the pace of a game than Chris Paul. Also, despite Chris Paul being a more efficient scorer from further away, Isiah Thomas averages about the same about of points in his prime. What are we even talking about man🤦♂️
IT is better than CP3. IT has accomplished more with less. CP3 has had more allstar/HOF help and only made the finals once. CP3 also didn’t have to deal with the physicality of the game either.
I will give u a example right quick. The 2004 pistons didn't have no Kevin Durant, no Steph, but we all can agree alot of players are better than what the pistons had on a individual level. That will not matter if the chemistry is not as good as the other team. Duh bill lambeer is not better than alot of big man. But put KD in that time with their rules. And his ass will be sore as hell after trying to score on the 89 pistons. My point is alot of people say " Oh the warriors would destroy the 89 pistons!" But why do the 89 pistons gotta play by today's rules if they played the warriors? Why can't the warriors play by their rules in the 80s? Then we will see who is great. Idk why that always gets ignored. I'm sure if Alot of players had the luxury the players did now they would have had better stats as well. They had to kill to get alot of their points. Elbows to the face and so much more.
Efficiency is a measure of how good you are at making the shots you take. It's that simple. If you don't think how good a player is at making the shots they take is important to how good they are at basketball idk what to tell you other than you don't know ball.
You understand that Isiah Thomas is the only player to beat Michael, magic and bird in one playoff run right, right? Just stop. And Chris Paul is very talented. But he ain't show up in the playoffs which matters more than this fictitious debate on all around play when it ain't translated when it mattered most
How good was Joe Dumars actually? He's literally the least talked about FMVP ever. Not on any lists. People list SGs and he never comes up. Someone who knows please tell me about his game?
Yall are lying bout IT against the Bulls. 20 & 10 averages for the series is not struggling. His shot percentage dropped yes but I wouldn't say he steigfled like yall are arguing. That's for 88. In 89 he averaged 20 & 8 and struggled a bit more than the previous year. He definitely struggled in 1990. That being said, Pistons beat Jordan because of the better team but IT won both his titles as an underdog so that doesn't extend to the rest of his playoff accomplishments. And if he hadn't got hurt in 87 IT would have 3 rings and a 3 peat, CP3 took 20 years to make 1 I repeat ONE nba finals. CP3 is a better offensive player than IT, Thomas has him beat in terms of defense, clutchness and intangibles.
Yall can't say CP is a better scorer than Isiah, Isiah was getting to the rim at will. Basicaly Kyrie + great defense, better playmaking and leadership
Isiah is better by simply this besides the championships, but when Isiah played injured on one leg and scored over 40 in that game. But on the other end when chris gets hurt and im not judging when u get injured u should still play thats not what im saying but chris doesnt even has Isiah's grit to play through injury
Cp3 has literally spent the last decade playing through countless injuries. Do not remember cp playing in game 7 vs San Antonio and hitting a game winning floater over Tim Duncan to win that series in 2015 while hobbling on one leg? Do u not remember cp getting hurt and barely being able to hold the ball all of the 2021 playoffs but still putting up some of the greatest playoff performances ever to lead the suns over the clippers? Why do y’all just erase any good performances cp3 ever had from y’all’s memories. It’s a really weird thing with y’all.
The is panel is ridiculous you can tell who was really watching these games while or they were happening in love and who was RUclips clips and read stats
This comparison is flawed using only numbers as it favors CP3. CP3’s also edges Zeek on the defensive side as well. However, CP3 was never tasked with the responsibility of being the primary scorer and playmaker for any of his teams. Zeek also dealt with the more physical era, played in a slower tempo, and had a really tough Eastern competition to run through. Zeek never played with another MVP or HOF (besides Rodman). Had the better playoff performances and was unquestionably the best player on his championship teams. 🏆 🏆
1. yes chris paul has been the primary scorer 😂 just look up CP3 hornets (btw he was 2nd in MVP once & top five 3x…..) [a many believe CP3 was robbed out of on MVP] 2. this „phsycial era“ shit is just a goofy argument 3. zeek played at a FASTER pace, which means it would INFLATE his numbers. 4. CP3 played with ONE HOF for LITERALLY less than two years in Harden (in which CP3 got injured)
@@princeharry6736 1. The 80’s & 90’s were a more physical brand of ball b/c the defense was allowed to be more aggressive. The evolution of the game now has handicapped defenses and permitted the offensive player freedoms that weren’t available during the previous eras. It’s not as goofy as you think. 2. CP3 never led a team to a chip finals as the best player on that team was my point. 3. If Zeek could take the Bad Boys to 3 NBA Finals appearances and win 🏆 🏆 of em…what could he have done on them Lob City squads!?!? 4. CP3 has played with more skilled All-Stars and there’s no debate on that. CP3 was just fortunate to play in the era where ballers were fraternizing a whole lot more.
I am glad that LOW rebunked the myth that Isiah Thomas himself propagates that he was ths sole reason the Bad Boy Pistons was successful. He had another hall of famer backcourt mate in Joe Dumars, a defensive juggernaut in Dennis Rodman, a dynamic scorer who should be hall of famer in Mark Aguirre and before that he had Adrian Dantley. Now, he probably needed that because he had to dethrone the Boston Celtics in the East and the Lakers in the finals. But as a PG, I probably would go for Isiah Thomas over Chris Paul as a decision maker.
It was slick how low doesnt clearly say what he averaged he says less than 20 that could mean 19.5 if your going to brung stats just say the stat because to the guys point low saying that way instead just the numbers is low Painting his narrative
Just like clockwork, they’re trying to tear down an all-time great to prop up a overrated player. The only thing I’d give Chris Paul credit for is he’ll elevate his team in the regular season. I’ll give him that.
@@christ-Revealed noone has watched that much zeke especially recently to really say much,ive seen more than ur saying anyway,but noone has watched full seasons recenty due to it not being available,even at the time barely anyone saw that much
@@MarzTalksSports but you get that greatness has to do with more than just being a better player. Moments add to that, like IT scoring the highest 4th quarter points in a wcf adds to his greatness
Is there anybody from the player's choice out there? If so what makes Chris Paul better than Isaiah Thomas? Why do some of you guys think that Chris Paul is a better score than Isaiah Thomas? I hope there somebody out there from the show that can answer those questions
Isiah takes the edge for scoring, the willpower to score in those important game matter to me when judging their scoring, even if CP3 edges out in efficiency and better outside shot selection, Isiah is a better rim runner
Isiah Thomas was faster, a much better athlete, better hops, mist creative passer and couod fluctuate between fundamental basketball and playground basketball in a instant. Chris Paul wasn't THAT guy.
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Zeke had five straight seasons of averaging at least 20 PPG early in his career and was a 20/10 guy for four straight seasons as well. This narrative of Zeke not even being close to better than CP3 as an all-time PG is a horrendous take.
He's not, sry
Higher pace
I agree these young guys don’t understand the floor spacing, Put Thomas in this time he is killing I seen him play in rasp time I’ve seen Chris Paul it ain’t close.
@@stephane9579 He is, sorry. Zeke is Top 75, CP3 is not.
@@fwcammmm Higher pace, so that’s why they have comparable numbers?!
2 NBA Championships 💍 and a Finals MVP 🏆 and he took his franchise to 3 Finals, 5 straight Conference Final all in 12 seasons. Isiah stopped scoring to help his team win. He could have averaged 26 a game easy but he played a role to have team success. This is something a lot teams aren’t doing today to make sure the team wins. Sacrificing individual success for team success. Also Isiah knew when his team needed ‘Superstar’ Zeke to push his team to victories.
Still picking Chris Paul nigga lmao
@@oraylouis5853 that’s cool Zeke would cook him just like Steph did
@@Redsworldtv you don't know basketball stop it lmao 😂
@@oraylouis5853 No sir I think that’s the other way around
@@Redsworldtv please explain how he is better than Chris Paul I'm waiting lol
You can tell they didn't watch Chris Paul with the hornets. He was a scorer and a passer
That's when he was almost at zeek level but after that he fell off
@@goku20015 fell off is a. Extreme stretch
@@TheIcemanthomas he became a great point guard with great stats.. Be after he left the Hornets.. He wasn't that guy ever again.. He didn't take over shit..
@@goku20015 you’re a casual bud
@@goku20015"didn't take over shit,"
He played against far better teams than IT ever did. IT won against an injured Bird and an injured Magic.
CP3 played against the Spurs dynasty, the Heatles, the big 3 Celtics, the Warriors Dynasty, etc.
The East was weak as fuck when IT played, and it still is. The west has always been the harder conference, and surprise surprise, CP3 always played in the West.
Piston would’ve won in 88 of Thomas didn’t get injured. None of y’all saw that. I’m older than all y’all and I barely remember that series with the exception of Isaiah getting injured.
Phantom foul also
That is what I'm saying these young guys wasn't probably even born in the 90's and their some basketball experts leave that to nba players who actually played the game
Im young and I still understand that zeke was a sprain ankle away from 3peat against bird magic and Jordan
Zeke was busting magic ass
@@minfamous5841 can I ask you a was magic more of a team defender than a perimeter defender correct
IT beating MJ,Bird,M and Magic in the playoffs while Chris Paul was losing to Gordon Hayward.
Terrible out of context bullshit. Knowing damn well cp3 plaid on some of the toughest western conferences in nba history. Foh
@@TheIcemanthomas bro nobody outside of Giannis and KD and Kobe was a crazy superstar he was losing with better teams than IT. Ain’t nobody cp faced come close to what Isaiah Thomas was or Michael Jordan.
The only the reason the Lakers beat the Pistons in 88 was because Thomas got injured. Thomas was better than Paul in the clutch.
I could use same logic and say, only reason pistons won the east is because birds back injury. And then only reason they could beat lakers was because magic was injured or Kareem retired.
@bobkeps2095 So part of my post got cut off I was saying this because he said they only beat Lakers because Magic got injured. My whole point is that Detroit went to the Finals 3 straight. The ECF 5 straight years. To dimish Isiah Thomas' accomplishments of beating the dream trio and still winning 2 Championship in that time period shows a lack of basketball knowledge. The greatest game in Finals history came from Thomas playing on that ankle that needed surgery afterwards scoring 24 points in the 4th on 1 foot. People don't give him his due because of Jordan's dislike for him. Thomas' teams beat Jordan more than he beat him. That ankle game kills the flu game. Thomas is better than Paul for one reason in the biggest games and his team needed he injury or not he played up to the occasion and it's not even close in comparison. Paul has never shown the ability to will his team anywhere as great as he is.
@@bobkeps2095 still don’t matter. As a 6 foot guard IsiahThomas led his team to multiple finals. Chris Paul chokes all the time in the damn playoffs. Let’s stop this nonsense.
@@alltheworldsastage8597 i would take Thomas over Paul everyday and twice in playoffs. My point is that logic has holes... what "dream trio" are u talking about tho? I know its not celtics because birds back brought him down. And pistons didnt beat celtics til after his accident that almost left him in a wheelchair for life... I could use same logic that you're saying I'm diminishing Thomas, and say you're diminishing magic Johnson.
This annoying bro cp my favorite player ever but y’all gotta start showing respect to the older generation until he gets a ring there is no convo
this is annoying bro, Isiah my favorite player ever but y’all gotta start showing respect to the newer generation, ring or not, cp3 is in the convo when discussing the individual players
They are really starting to go overboard with disrespecting older players.
And this is what Marz means. If you have IT>CP3 just say it’s because of the ring, because there’s no way the worse scorer, passer, playmaker, shooter, and defender is better at basketball.
If CP3 your favorite you would without a doubt put CP3 > Isiah. Cmon man 😂
@@lucasrangel9150 you clearly don't know Zeke. Zeke was a better scorer because he was better at creating his own shot applied more pressure on the defense and was clutch. Zeke was also the better passer. You guys tripping. And he had better handles. The biggest difference in why Zeke is better is his leadership. Zeke early years he was on the reg putting up 23 and 12. He took that down to 18 and 8 so his team could win zeke has plenty of playoff games were he took over Chris dont
Joe Dumars does it at an ELITE level on Defense. And is a solid Offensive player.
But it’s fair to say that they both did it on an elite level for their Era
I think when you boil down to the players at a individual skill, Chris Paul just has little to no weaknesses as Isiah Thomas. he edges him as a playmaker, efficiency, outside scorer, defender. Isiah just has the edge in volume scoring and winning the chips with a stacked squad. Those Bad Boys Pistons are the most underrated powerhouse team of all time.
Are you forgetting the collapses that chris paul had having games with 2 ,4 and 6 points in the dallas series, he is the architect of the blown 3-1 lead and is perpetually injured or failing in key moments.
Saying he’s a better playmaker is such a false take Isaiah Thomas is far better scorer that chris Paul as well
@@johnton3962Chris Paul is a better playmaker
ZEEK IS BETTER lol
Where was Paul last year against Dallas? Game 7 in his own building🤔
IT would average 35 & 15 in today's NBA
stop lying to yourself 😂
He couldn’t even average 23 PPG in a FASTER paced era.
maybe in the 60s but not today
No... Probably about 23 and 13. Which is still fantastic. I also think his leadership would shine through. But 35 is CRAZY lol
By this logic your saying IT is better than steph 😂🤣
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks IT is not a better player than Chris Paul.
The number one goal and most important thing is any game is to win. IT showed up when it counted. IT did whatever his team needed him to do. Mars talks about efficiency like thats the most important thing in sports. What about making the right play at the right time that helps ur team win. He better at that by far. His game help push he team over the top and he was the overwhelming leader of the team.
He played on a way better team lmfao
Man them guys say the dumbest stuff they better look at the videos of Mr Thomas he would dominate thus era.
No the fuck he would not are you fucking stupid.
no he wouldn’t 😂
He would be a healthier cp3 without cp3s longevity
@@soniclover1309 look at chris Paul's playoff resume he collapses or is hurt did you see his finals against the bucks, not taking shots and giving his team under ten points isiah would never
CP3 has one of the greatest peaks of all time in basketball, how is it disrespectful? That also doesn't factor in how Isiah didn't make the playoffs after 30 while CP3 made all NBA teams in his mid-30s. Or how Isiah was on one of the best teams of the late 80s. Or how in his first ring he beat a Celtics team with an injured Bird, a Bucks team with an injured Terry Cummings (in his best season), a Bulls team with just Jordan and no help, and a Laker's team with an injured Magic.
ZEEK is the most underrated all time great ever!! This video proves it!!
Thomas averaged 20ppg five times.
Paul averaged 20 ppg two times.
Isaiah is clearly a better scorer than cp3
Casual argument
@@Dusty3967 Isiah scores 18 000 points in 13 seasons. Cp3 has scored 21,000 points in 18 seasons. You do the math fanboy
Efficiency
This man said I don't even know what pace is in a basketball conversation...
I agree. CP3 is just a better player than Isiah Thomas. All-Time argument, it’s close, Zeke has the rings and fmvp, but CP3 should’ve won MVP in 2008, has more 1st teams, defense accolades and longevity
ZEEK IS BETTER. Cp3 vanishes in the playoffs
Throwing in longevity with no results isn't a strong argument. By that standard Vince Carter should be on everyone's top 10. Rings matter in all time great arguments because there's literally no one considered top 10 that doesn't have a ring and/or FMVP. He's a skilled player but all that skill doesn't mean anything when the chips are down and you're supposed to lead your team to the chip
@@doloslim7572 and cp3 does not have the skill to take over! Look what zeek did in the NBA Finals!! LEGENDARY SHIT!!
@@goku20015 Magic injury. Zeke takes over. Legendary…
@@doloslim7572 very wrong take. VC never showed any of those seasons he was a top 5 player. CP3 has shown that at least in 5 seasons. Isiah prolly only 4 seasons in his career as a top 5 player
The disrespect on Isaiah Thomas is crazy... Isaiah was not asked to be the main scorer... He scored when he had to..
*isiah
@CPGoat #3 thanks... fingers be typing too fast
Same thing cp3
He had to but couldn't when they lost... Man I hate that excuse, regardless of who's being talked about. This should never be said about anyone.
Isiah thomas was more available more clutch had better transition offense, better team defense, better finishing, and anecdotally he had better moments in the playoffs also he won.
I agree IT has the better career but your missing the point, the argument their making isn’t that his career is better it’s the better basketball PLAYER, team defense has nothing to do with Isaiah as a individual, better playoff moments and rings have nothing to do with on court play, and as far as on court skill CP3 is better
@@SMGKOBE no winning and ability are not separate IT was available and healthy and performed more than cp3, that pistons team and several chris paul teams are equivalent in talent the difference is the things that IT brought which was leadership health, great penetration and distribution in a less spaced leauge and he was the engine of those pistons offenses and the results were two rings getting past Jordan.
Zeke not a better team defender than CP3
@@SMGKOBE this makes no sense. Better playoff moments are literally on court play because they happen on a fucking basketball court. The better basketball player is the person that has the most impact on winning, which is Zeke
@@isaiahcoley438 your a casual bud
Zeke was the clear leader of his team and led them to back to back chips. Yeah he's over Chris Paul because of championships. But the bottom line is he was able to lead his team there twice, and probably could have 3-peated if he didn't get hurt in the '88 Finals. Chris Paul just has not shown that he's capable of that level of consistent postseason dominance, and that's the big difference.
You’re a casual bud
Lmao you wanna talk about ITs injury, but disregard the fact that he had one of the easiest finals runs ever. Hurt Bird, hurt magic. And when playing a young Jordan he was getting absolutely clamped.
Crazy we holding a 37 cp3 more accountable than Devin Booker but it's cool kinda shows how crazy cp3 longevity is. Ppl really have Zeke over cp3 bc of rings that's it
Why y'all disrespectful to Zeke?
Chris Paul disrespect?
it’s CP3 we comparing too 😂
@@N8veJay How is it disrespectful to put Zeke over Paul?
@@bigwoke686 It isn't disrespectful to either player. Chris Paul is one of the most talented players of all time at his peak and he has translated that to the playoffs (unless he was hurt) If you want to say Zeke was better because he has two rings to CP's none or that CP gets hurt too much, that's cool. But it isn't disrepectful to compare two of the best PGs of all time to one antoher.
Anyone that played before 2000 is ass apparently
I never saw cp3 offensively take over ever!! I never saw him take over in big games when it's all on the line!! Zeek did that everyday!!! Don't forget his playoff heroics!!!
You're just chatting right now. LAST YEAR ALONE, he sent the pels home without Book in 6 at 37 years old, mf literally had a perfect game.
Huh? His series vs the Lakers in his New Orleans days, he took over
@@m.j.w.2876 he was almost at zeek level then.. But what happened after? Lol
That’s because u never watched cp3 EVER. It’s always the idiots who don’t watch basketball commenting so strongly and confidently but be dead wrong.
@@goku20015 San Antonio series in 2015. Utah series when Blake got hurt in 2017, Minnesota series in 2018. Pelicans series in 2022. Clippers series in 2021. Okc series in 2020. Most of that Memphis series when he was in LA. The series vs gsw before he got hurt in 2018. That San Antonio series in NOLA where he was TORCHING Tony Parker’s ass. It’s like y’all just never watched a chris Paul game on your lives. It’s weird. Y’all quick to remember all the bad but all the big series he had just escape y’all’s memories. Revisionist history is crazy thing. If y’all wanna say he’s inconsistent then cool. But to flat out lie and say he’s never taken over a game or series is idiotic behavior.
Zeke had what can’t be measured, heart and leadership. The numbers are comparable, I’ll give you that. However, Zeke has done everything CP3 has done, not the other way around. As a fellow 6ft PG, unlike CP3, led his Bad Boy Pistons to two back to back titles, with possibly the toughest road faced by a champion. Zeke didn’t get HOF talent teammates, but he pushed them to be their absolute best. And unlike MJ, all his teammates loved him.
I love CP3, if not for Steph, I’ve got him as the best PG of my generation, but we have seen his teams be more talented than Zeke’s teams, have a more qualified coaching than Zeke, and seen them flame out more worse than any team Zeke has played on.
The problem is Chri Paul vanishes in the biggest moments. You can't say that about Isiah.
Not only does he not vanish, many times, but he has also been the reason they won.
Lol you’re a casual bud
Lmao so just forgetting all the times a young Jordan had him absolutely clamped. He vanished big time in a lot of games. He just had a better team around him to hide his choking.
Man... You can have your takes and opinions about whatever. Some of these dudes seemed like they just refused to answer the question on the floor lol
They just said Kd is better than kobe i am dead
As a Lakers fan Zeke scared the shit outta me in 88. CP3 had more talent around him.
They say Magic got hurt but so did Isiah smh
People keep saying "if you only count chips". Like duh , chips matter. Especially when ure comparing two stars on the team post when there were only 8 teams (before people hit me with the "but big shot Bob won 7 and magic won 5"). Rings are not redundant, and a lot of times with those stars it's will rather than skill.
Counting chips isn’t that important as ppl think. Circumstances have a lot to do with chips. The eye test is the most important thing.
This Mars guy I don't he watches any games he just look up stats
@Kae Kae u need both. The ultimate aim is to win, if u have all the skills and are just fun to watch u might as well be an and 1 dude. Eye test, intangibles, chips etc...they all matter. Without the chips people might not look at Tim Duncan as the best power forward. He wasn't the most fun to watch and whilst fundamentally sound, was lacking in some areas. Being a winner sets you apart. Nobody plays the game just to display skill....if that's their goal then and 1 and Harlem globetrotters are probably hiring
@@el84oro But if you ONLY look at chips, you're making a bad argument.
@Revy's Bitch I didn't say only look at them. But its foolish to consider them redundant. Cos that's the aim of the game. There are centers who had more skills and cud do more than shaq. But there's a separator.
So zeke got hurt in the finales vs the Lakers he hurt his ankle and he cooked magic but they lost the series 🤷🏾♂️. Cp3 doesn’t have a memorable moment in the playoffs
Bro said Jamal Crawford😭😭😭
I wish I coulda been there arguing for IT smh. Who is the better player is definitely debatable. Who is the better scorer is not. IT is a score first guard, he always was all the way until Chuck daily changed his game and changed the direction of the pistons. During crucial games IT would enter games with the mentality and ability to drop 30-40 points to will his team to victory. CP3 never had that mentality. They had 2 different mentalities. The argument about cp3 being a better scorer because he’s a better mid range shooter and 3 point shooter and off the ball scorer is just irrelevant to anything. Let’s put that argument to use right now! 38 year old cp3 is better mid range/3pt and off the ball scorer than JA morant. IS CP3 A BETTER SCORER OR HAS BEEN A BETTER SCORER THAN 2023 JA MORANT????? No… that’s stupid. Another example John Stockton was more efficient than IT in their day. Was Stockton a better scorer than IT? Noooo. IT was more 1 dimensional but he was just a better scorer. He took over games with his scoring more than his passing. He had 40 point bombs in the playoffs, he had a season averaging 25 a game. He’s just a better scorer. And if it weren’t for Chuck daily he might have multiple 25ppg seasons on his career but Chuck took the ball out his hands.
Dang….you actually channeled almost all of what I thought
Efficiency is not irrelevant at all.
I can accept IT was the better scorer and performer in the clutch, but he was not comparable player wise outside of that. He’s better because he got the rings, which is a fair point to say. CP had better defense, longevity, efficiency, playmaking/passing, leadership and adaptability, and is sexier.
Besides that last one, CP should edge out IT player wise, but lose, if you feel that way, because Zeke actually won
PLEASE STOP MAKING THESE CROSS GENERATIONAL COMPARISONS, IT'S NONSENSE BECAUSE CONTEXT OF THE ERAS ISN'T ALWAYS APPLIED
Results over stats. Isiah is better. 🙏🏾
He had a much better team
@@Abbad1579 Chris Paul played with prime Harden and now he’s playing with Booker and KD man stop it
@@ubereats3047 respect prime Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Mark Aguirre and Bill Laimbeer
@@ubereats3047 He played 2 years with Harden and 2 games with KD. Calm down. Dumars was arguably better than Zeke from 1989-1991
@@Abbad1579 >He played 2 years with Harden
Yes 2 years of Harden at his absolute apex , 2 of the greatest offensive seasons we’ve ever seen came back to back from Harden. Why are we running this ridiculous narrative now that CP3 wasn’t playing with anyone good he played with the damn MVP of the league that averaged 36 ppg.
CP3>Isiah is not a bad take honestly CP3 has more longevity and had sustained his career for much longer than Isiah.and their all around game is close passing is equal,CP3 is clearly a better playmaker,handles is equal,finishing kinda close but I’ll give CP3 the slight edge,mid range is not really close so overall u can have a case for CP3 being better than Isiah all time.
What about cp3 playoff collapses with doc rivers or his horrendous finals with the suns recently or his collapse to luka and the mavs, when did isiah thomas do any of these things?
@@ryansomenek2631 cp3 > IT as a playoff performer
@Robert Wilson how when he constantly comes up small in big moments🤔???
@@ryansomenek2631 "horrendous finals with the suns" He had one bad game...
@@darkestnights9808 19 and 9 with 4 to and shooting 25 percent from 3 is bad also.
Props to Chris Paul. He's a future first-ballot hall of famer, Olympian and a great team leader. But, Isiah Thomas is in a higher, rarer class than CP3. Thomas was more talented, though in many ways they are comparable players. In terms of impact on the court, Isiah ranks higher among the all-time greats.
Paul has been a steady all-star and all-NBA player. In his 18th season and on his 5th team, he's still pursuing the lone achievement he's failed to reach - an NBA title. Isiah lead the Detroit Pistons from out the mud, to three consecutive NBA Finals appearances and back-to-back championships in an era otherwise dominated by the Magic Johnson-led "Showtime" Lakers and the Larry Bird-led Boston Celtics. He also led the Pistons to three consecutive post-season series victories over Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls. No other player in that era led his team to post-season series victories over Bird, Magic and Jordan.
Isiah Thomas was the greatest point guard of his era - even better than Magic Johnson. Paul ranks as an historically great point guard - possibly top 10 all-time. He should be classified in the same range as Stockton, Kidd and Nash, but lower than Frazier and Payton. Kobe shares many of the same traits as Michael Jordan, but he's not Jordan. Likewise, Chris Paul shares many traits with Isiah Thomas, but he's not Isiah. There are different levels of greatness.
In what ways is IT more talented? Please tell me.
Thomas didn't have to come out the mud. His team was literally fighting other teams. He went through an injured Bird, and and injured Magic. If they were both healthy, he isn't doing anything.
You then bring up the Pistons beating a young Jordan. First of all, Jordan was clamping IT up. Isiah wasn't doing anything to Jordan. Second of all, the 80s bulls teams were complete garbage, where Michael was literally the only guy worth a damn.
Isiah is not a better "PG of his era" than Magic. Magic won 5, and played bird in the finals consistently. Had more assists, better defense. There isn't a single argument you can make to put IT above Magic.
The only argument for IT above CP3 is rings.
@@chrishansen8119 A book should be written on the number of injuries to great players that shaped the outcomes of championships. For example, in the 1987 eastern conference finals, the Pistons lost to the Celtics in seven games. Adrian Dantley, the Pistons leading scorer who averaged 25 ppg over the first six games, collided heads with Vinnie Johnson, the league's top 6th man - who averaged 23 ppg in the series - while diving for a loose ball near the end of the 3rd qtr. Dantley was knocked unconscious and Vinnie Johnson suffered a concussion. Dantley never returned to the game. Johnson returned to score one bucket before leaving the game permanently with 7 minutes remaining. The Celtics won the game 117-114.
The Pistons beat the Bulls in 6 games in 1989, The Pistons were attempting to close out the Lakers in LA in game 6. That's the game in which Isiah scored 25 points in the third qtr on a severely sprained ankle. The Lakers escaped with a 103-102 win to get to game 7. Thomas attempted to play in game 7 but was too hobbled to be effective. The Pistons lost 108-105, due in large part to a phantom foul call against Laimbeer defending Jabbar in the last seconds. Jabbar missed his sky hook, but was bailed out by the referee.
The following season the Pistons swept the Lakers to win 1989 championship. Magic suffered a strained hamstring injury in game 2, and couldn't return for the remainder of the sweep. But that time, it was clear to everyone that the Pistons had eclipsed the Lakers as the NBA's best team and Isiah had eclipsed Magic as the NBA's best point guard.
@@ProfessorofTruth No one every thought the Pistons were better than the showtime Lakers, at any point.
And there is not a single god damn person in this world that thought Zeke surpassed Magic. You're just straight up lying lmao
Ngl low was saying a bunch of bs 😂
And zeek got more heart!!
Prove it
@@TheIcemanthomaslook at when Karl malone busted zeek head open and he finished the game! Watch videos of zeek fighting centers twice his size.. Look at all the times he played with blood on his jersey.. He played in a more rough era and look at when zeek led his team to the Championship, twice!! Something Paul can't do!!!
Use to love the bad boy pistons. That team was just as good as a healthy Lakers at the time. The Pistons could have won that first championship if not for a terrible call for Kareem and Isiah getting hurt. So they didn't only win the next year because Magic got hurt. Also put some respect on Joe Dumars name he was a finals mvp, the rest of that squad was amazing they had guys who would be starters on other teams coming off the bench.
I got Zeke higher over CP3 on the All Time List.
Everyone does
Yeah this is a silly argument
@@coltonpeterson1452 Not if you value them purely as how skilled and impactful they were. CP3's peak and longevity are better than Zeke's. CP3 made all NBA teams last year at 36 while Zeke retired at 32.
CP definitely has an argument.
@@coltonpeterson1452Unintelligent people do
@@farhansarkar2394 do realize Zeke retired very early into his 30s right? He played a season an a half before he got hurt at 32 and retired. U say that like he played 20 years and was trash the rest of his career. Foh
Zeke went up against 2 of the Top 5 greatest teams of all time (Showtime Lakers & Mid 80s Celtics) & a team that will go on to become the Greatest team (Jordan & Pippen's Bulls) and defeated them. Meanwhile CP3 was blowing 3-1 leads to the Rockets with Harden on the bench. Marz going on "it's about winning" when you're talking about the Greats, yes it's about winning
Being a point guard is more than just passing, u r and extension of the coach, that pistons team rallied around Zeke, he was the heart and soul of those pistons teams. It’s like magic there r things about him that cannot be measured. He brought toughness lead by example. Man scored like 30 with literally 1 leg. Just throwing around stats doesn’t work for some players. Jesus u dudes love Chris Paul.
I have Isiah over cp3 mainly because staying healthy is a skill majority of injuries are not freak accidents but rather conditioning issues. I'd agree that Chris Paul is better at basketball then Isiah but (and I'm just speculating here) Isiah is most likely better at the intangibles that we don't see
U know Zekes career was literally cut short because of injuries right?
@CPGoat #3 man I didn't think I would have to explain this. Your 100% correct ot was but the difference is he never let injury stop him from getting the job done at the time. Yes it shortened his career but IN THE MOMENT he played through them for better or worse. Cp3 has longevity but at the cost of always being gone halfway through a playoff series.
CP3 been on so many teams and can’t get it done anywhere
Scoring is simply putting the ball in the basket. Its not how you do it, its how often you do it. The light skin girl is talking about skill set or talent. That's different
Zeke got two rings as best player and CP3 has 0 with teammates bettter than him.
Jrue outplayed CP3
Marz he’s better at things that you can’t look at a stat sheet to measure, he’s a better leader, he’s a more clutch performer (lol you can actually look at this), his resilience is higher than CP, more durable when the team needs him, his teammates actually want to go to war for him (most NBA players hate CP) etc. Zeke is better by a good margin.
Leadership isn’t a skill that you can measure in basketball that’s just a terrible way to assess a player
@@xpertyt6801 how old are you?
@@xpertyt6801 CP is also a dirty player and flopper. Zeke ain’t do that to be great. Hold the L kid.
@@tayluc777 bro what? Isn’t the reason he wasn’t liked because of the fact he’s a dirty player. And again you still talking in narratives and revisionist history
@@tayluc777 also you disregarding what I’m saying proves my point y’all can’t actually explain how cp isn’t better than zeke yet cp has almost every stat better then him in a more gifted era
Zeke defintiely adjusted his game to win. His efficiency when he was required to be a scorer prior to Dumars was better than CP3
Marz doesn't understand that winning is the reason they play the game lol, winning is the most important thing. This generation doesn't understand that. If players started to think like the fans of this generation there will be a lot of players okay with losing, thats not a good look
You want to why I he thinks that it's not his fault do you know who you should blame nick wright he's responsible for all this nonsense to defend with this goat argument
@@jimmycharlotin7050 Facts! Him Shannon Sharpe and Kendrick Perkins
if we doing winning, than your not gonna like the all-time rankings when it comes to winning… guys like Bill Russell is your 🐐 and John Havlicek is most likely above your favorite players. They got the job done ☑️
if we doing winning, than your not gonna like the all-time rankings when it comes to winning… guys like Bill Russell is your 🐐 and John Havlicek is most likely above your favorite players. They got the job done ☑️
@moc I'm going to honest with you do you think bill Russell as great as he is I don't think he's winning 11 championships in the modern era of basketball but he's still the og of the nba
CP3 has choked many times in the playoffs. The problem is he never gets held accountable for it.
Thomas way better than Chris Paul 3 trips to finals and 2 chips
NCAA champion
NBA champion.
Pan Am Gold Medal winner
He was the Regional and Final Four MOP, NBA Finals MVP and MVP of the gold medal game .
When he won, he was the best player in the process.
So like marz said its only because he has a ring not because he is really better than cp3
@@Dusty3967 how the fuck did he get 3 college and NBA rings?
He did it as the Most Outstanding Player in the Final Four and NBA Finals MVP
If Paul was better, why the hell didn't he do it since a supposedly LESSER player did it in the same amount of college time and less NBA time?
Some of you MFers talk plain stupidity.
Pistons had to be that talented because Celtics and Lakers rosters were loaded
Being from Chicago, I used to hate the Detroit Pistons but yall need to put respect on Isiah Thomas name. The man lead a team that beat Bird, Jordan and Magic in the playoffs to win the championship
'It's only because of the rings' - People don't understand how misleading this forced conclusion can be. There's a difference between a ring being a factor in whether you're remembered as a player as compared to when your impact as a player in those winning seasons was pivotal for the team get the rings.
In a slightly related, but not completely, parallel note, you can give someone all the technical and physical attributes in the world, that doesn't guarantee anything concrete in terms of winning games. IT had that it factor which enabled his teams to win, you remove Isiah from those Pistons teams and they probably aren't winning a single ring. Chris Paul has never been able to get a ring and has in fact been associated with teams that flamed out in games, something that the PG really should be in charge of not letting happen.
So now the pistons had a great team and it wasn’t just IT but when talking about the goat they stay bringing up the piston and Celtic like they were ass and zero comp. Jordan the goat.
🎯
That Pistons team was amazing!!! So underrated
Isiah Thomas clears Chris Paul. I could argue about rings, the fact that CP3 comes up short repeatedly in big moments in the playoffs, and that Isiah Thomas is better at controlling the pace of a game than Chris Paul. Also, despite Chris Paul being a more efficient scorer from further away, Isiah Thomas averages about the same about of points in his prime. What are we even talking about man🤦♂️
It's more hate on zeek! What else is new
He doesn’t clear him. It’s close. Zeke is greater all time but cp is the better overall talent
@@TheIcemanthomas no.. He isn't... ZEEK IS a better ball handler.. And he is more CLUTCH!! Cp3 never had a clutch gene!!
IT is better than CP3. IT has accomplished more with less. CP3 has had more allstar/HOF help and only made the finals once. CP3 also didn’t have to deal with the physicality of the game either.
What about IQ?
What about defense?
What about Facilitating?
i just wanna know.....
CP3 checks those better than IT
Efficiency can be overrated at times
I will give u a example right quick. The 2004 pistons didn't have no Kevin Durant, no Steph, but we all can agree alot of players are better than what the pistons had on a individual level. That will not matter if the chemistry is not as good as the other team. Duh bill lambeer is not better than alot of big man. But put KD in that time with their rules. And his ass will be sore as hell after trying to score on the 89 pistons. My point is alot of people say " Oh the warriors would destroy the 89 pistons!" But why do the 89 pistons gotta play by today's rules if they played the warriors? Why can't the warriors play by their rules in the 80s? Then we will see who is great. Idk why that always gets ignored. I'm sure if Alot of players had the luxury the players did now they would have had better stats as well. They had to kill to get alot of their points. Elbows to the face and so much more.
Efficiency is a measure of how good you are at making the shots you take. It's that simple. If you don't think how good a player is at making the shots they take is important to how good they are at basketball idk what to tell you other than you don't know ball.
Naw its not as black and white as you making it.
You understand that Isiah Thomas is the only player to beat Michael, magic and bird in one playoff run right, right? Just stop. And Chris Paul is very talented. But he ain't show up in the playoffs which matters more than this fictitious debate on all around play when it ain't translated when it mattered most
Y’all keep telling this flat out lie that cp doesn’t show up on the playoffs when all the game film and metric says otherwise.
Bullshit, cp3 never did that. What year did he do that? 89 bird didnt play😭😭
Isiah Thomas aka Michael Jackson.
Chris Paul, aka Christopher Williams.
That's basically the skill levels of the 2 guards
The disrespect for the older generation is getting out of hand ✋️ 😒
Yall reasoning for zeke being better doesn’t have anything to do with the actual game of basketball. This why you can’t argue with old heads
This is why no one listens to dumb kids like you
How good was Joe Dumars actually? He's literally the least talked about FMVP ever. Not on any lists. People list SGs and he never comes up. Someone who knows please tell me about his game?
Yall are lying bout IT against the Bulls. 20 & 10 averages for the series is not struggling. His shot percentage dropped yes but I wouldn't say he steigfled like yall are arguing. That's for 88. In 89 he averaged 20 & 8 and struggled a bit more than the previous year. He definitely struggled in 1990.
That being said, Pistons beat Jordan because of the better team but IT won both his titles as an underdog so that doesn't extend to the rest of his playoff accomplishments. And if he hadn't got hurt in 87 IT would have 3 rings and a 3 peat, CP3 took 20 years to make 1 I repeat ONE nba finals. CP3 is a better offensive player than IT, Thomas has him beat in terms of defense, clutchness and intangibles.
isiah thomas is basically chris paul with 2 rings and a fmvp so obviously hes better than chris paul
Their numbers are very close but I give it to Isaiah Thomas. He won two rings in the era of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.
JORDAN AS WELL
Yall can't say CP is a better scorer than Isiah, Isiah was getting to the rim at will. Basicaly Kyrie + great defense, better playmaking and leadership
IT really might have 3peated if he didn’t get hurt, he was bussing magic Johnson ass in 88
Isiah is better by simply this besides the championships, but when Isiah played injured on one leg and scored over 40 in that game. But on the other end when chris gets hurt and im not judging when u get injured u should still play thats not what im saying but chris doesnt even has Isiah's grit to play through injury
Cp3 has literally spent the last decade playing through countless injuries. Do not remember cp playing in game 7 vs San Antonio and hitting a game winning floater over Tim Duncan to win that series in 2015 while hobbling on one leg? Do u not remember cp getting hurt and barely being able to hold the ball all of the 2021 playoffs but still putting up some of the greatest playoff performances ever to lead the suns over the clippers? Why do y’all just erase any good performances cp3 ever had from y’all’s memories. It’s a really weird thing with y’all.
The is panel is ridiculous you can tell who was really watching these games while or they were happening in love and who was RUclips clips and read stats
Bro some of these guys just can’t answer a question
ISIAH THOMAS 1989 VS CHI : 18.2 PTS , 8.3 AST
CHRIS PAUL 2021 VS MIL : 19.4 PTS , 8.6 AST........ BRO JUST ADMIT YOUR WRONG AND MARZ COOKED YALL
This comparison is flawed using only numbers as it favors CP3. CP3’s also edges Zeek on the defensive side as well.
However, CP3 was never tasked with the responsibility of being the primary scorer and playmaker for any of his teams. Zeek also dealt with the more physical era, played in a slower tempo, and had a really tough Eastern competition to run through.
Zeek never played with another MVP or HOF (besides Rodman). Had the better playoff performances and was unquestionably the best player on his championship teams.
🏆 🏆
1. yes chris paul has been the primary scorer 😂 just look up CP3 hornets (btw he was 2nd in MVP once & top five 3x…..) [a many believe CP3 was robbed out of on MVP]
2. this „phsycial era“ shit is just a goofy argument
3. zeek played at a FASTER pace, which means it would INFLATE his numbers.
4. CP3 played with ONE HOF for LITERALLY less than two years in Harden (in which CP3 got injured)
@@princeharry6736
1. The 80’s & 90’s were a more physical brand of ball b/c the defense was allowed to be more aggressive. The evolution of the game now has handicapped defenses and permitted the offensive player freedoms that weren’t available during the previous eras.
It’s not as goofy as you think.
2. CP3 never led a team to a chip finals as the best player on that team was my point.
3. If Zeek could take the Bad Boys to 3 NBA Finals appearances and win 🏆 🏆 of em…what could he have done on them Lob City squads!?!?
4. CP3 has played with more skilled All-Stars and there’s no debate on that. CP3 was just fortunate to play in the era where ballers were fraternizing a whole lot more.
IT is better than CP3 better leader better scorer better defender again they are favoring SKILLSET over actual production.
I am glad that LOW rebunked the myth that Isiah Thomas himself propagates that he was ths sole reason the Bad Boy Pistons was successful. He had another hall of famer backcourt mate in Joe Dumars, a defensive juggernaut in Dennis Rodman, a dynamic scorer who should be hall of famer in Mark Aguirre and before that he had Adrian Dantley.
Now, he probably needed that because he had to dethrone the Boston Celtics in the East and the Lakers in the finals.
But as a PG, I probably would go for Isiah Thomas over Chris Paul as a decision maker.
The lakers and Celtics was better
I’ve never heard Zeke ever take credit form his teammates. He ALWAYS speaks to the greatness of joe dumars, Aguirre, and Rodman.
@CPGoat #3 well then he is going to say he is the only top 75 player in that team. Which is not true because Dennis Rodman is also Top 75.
It was slick how low doesnt clearly say what he averaged he says less than 20 that could mean 19.5 if your going to brung stats just say the stat because to the guys point low saying that way instead just the numbers is low Painting his narrative
The 1989-91 Bad Boys Detroit pistons would have beaten the 2015-16 Warriors
Bro said Chris Paul balled out game 2 and didn’t even check the stats before saying that dumb thing😂
Isiah is better than CP3 stop it
CP3 better
Marz, Dub and LOW are implying as if Isiah Thomas is a bum if he didn't have a ring.
Once again Marz doesn't know a damn thing about basketball
Just like clockwork, they’re trying to tear down an all-time great to prop up a overrated player. The only thing I’d give Chris Paul credit for is he’ll elevate his team in the regular season. I’ll give him that.
2:02 put a finger in the sky if you want to
Isiah is the only small (smaller than than 6"4)guard that lead a team to the single chip, much less 2, before Steph Curry. Nobody else.
There's no way in hell I would take CP3 over IT, no fucking way
The middle right guy man...
How does marz know it is a better playmaker than cp3
from what ive seen?
@@MarzTalksSports common, its like you are watching IT play 82games a year... probably 1 or 2 play off series.. anyways i get your point tho
@@christ-Revealed more than that,but also noone saw that much zeke especially recently
@@christ-Revealed noone has watched that much zeke especially recently to really say much,ive seen more than ur saying anyway,but noone has watched full seasons recenty due to it not being available,even at the time barely anyone saw that much
@@MarzTalksSports but you get that greatness has to do with more than just being a better player. Moments add to that, like IT scoring the highest 4th quarter points in a wcf adds to his greatness
Zeke never played with an MVP
Ask yourself
If Chris Paul was on those Pistons teams would they go to 3 straight, robbed in one then back to back.
NO!
Is there anybody from the player's choice out there?
If so what makes Chris Paul better than Isaiah Thomas?
Why do some of you guys think that Chris Paul is a better score than Isaiah Thomas?
I hope there somebody out there from the show that can answer those questions
Isiah takes the edge for scoring, the willpower to score in those important game matter to me when judging their scoring, even if CP3 edges out in efficiency and better outside shot selection, Isiah is a better rim runner
theres nothing wrong with them putting zeke over cp3 but the arguments they are using to knock cp3 are dumb
Isiah Thomas was faster, a much better athlete, better hops, mist creative passer and couod fluctuate between fundamental basketball and playground basketball in a instant.
Chris Paul wasn't THAT guy.
Did you all really bring a guy on the show who's argument is constantly, "because he's better"?
Shameless to bring fg and efficiency when they played with totally different rules freedom of movement landing space the defence all were different
Don’t forget Isaiah Thomas did got hurt the year before in the finals against the lakers and it still went 7 they would’ve beat if he didn’t get hurt