@@jasonmoukala8909 I meant to say Shaq and Kareem. I still have Jokic top 3 because I think he is better than Wilt. I think Jokic is just way more dynamic offensively compared to Hakeem.
@@piratemccall Wilt was a ball hog and then he was a pass first ball hog for two seasons like Rondo because he wanted to prove he could lead the league in assists. Wilt was forcing all his assists through easy dumpoffs. Wilt lead his team to the best offense in the league once in his prime in an era with 8 teams. He scored a lot but his teams had a bad offense more times than they great offense.
Grown men fighting about sports with an intense passion is what I love about us. I know a lot of folks won't understand but if i was there i would have started singing Serbian National Anthem and then poetry to describe and honour the magic Nikola Jokic creates on the hardwood. It's so beautiful that whatever he does on the floor just makes you look at him with joy. For the lack of a better term, Jokic's game is incredibly aesthetic. And i can't stop stanning for the man!
Jokic produced a team that was top 10 in PPG in 2021 and a top 6 offensive rating for his team with his 2nd and 3rd best player out so for them to discredit the production that Jokic was/is doing is insane.
I promise you can tell who actually watches ball based off their take on Jokic. The fact that these guys were so shocked when low said Jokic a better passer than Stockton but yes this is facts. Look at the type of passed Jokic has to make vs the one Stockton made. Stockton just dumped it off to the big man 9/10 and that’s how he got 90-80% of his assist. Jokic is the one CREATING the plays. Jokic is such a great passer teams CANNOT double team him. Greatest offensive center of all time and I stand on that.
@@piratemccall I’m 23 and I’ve been watching ball since 2007. Your argument is such a dumb argument because not every nba players develops at the same speeds. For example Steph wasn’t the steph we know now in his first couple of years. Steph only averaged 19 in his first 5 years and later become an all time great. Since then he’s averaged at least 25 every year except for his 6th year which was 24. On top of all that a lot of the centers stats you posted have inflated numbers due to the era.
Jokic is a more impactful passer than Nash, Stockton, Kidd, and Rondo because he's a consistent scoring threat on all 3 levels. He draws doubles because he's almost unguardable 1 on 1 and he can then make a perfect pass to his open teammate
No he's not who is has Jokic face on a nightly basis?. All those top 10 center play each other more better competitor What he during on nightly basis tho is high ranking tho. He not playing really no center now 😄😄
The hell Jokic is. Nash was more impactful. It's like we all have short attention spans. Nash won MVP on the strength of getting traded and improving the Suns from a 24 win team the season before he arrived to winning 62 games. He ain't a better passer than Kidd and he isn't a better passer than Rondo. If you want to claim he's the best passing center of all time I will give that to you but there is no way you can claim to be an NBA fan and claim Jokic was a better passer than some of the greatest passing point gaurds in NBA history.
It shouldn’t be crazy to say that Jokic is a top ten center. The bottom part of the center 10 is kinda weaker in comparison to the upper end. I also don’t think it’s crazy to say Jokic is offensively the greatest at the center position. Lastly I don’t personally think it’s a bad take to say Jokic is offensively better than Kobe(tho I disagree, I see the argument and I won’t say it’s wrong necessarily coming from a Kobe fanboy).
@@agendaxpushers1322 I am but I genuinely think it’s not crazy to say those things. Jokic has been playing historically efficient on the offensive side of the ball and might just win his third consecutive MVP which only Bill Russell and Larry Bird has done. He is imo an all time great playmaker, elite post player, elite from mid range and a solid three point shooter. Now he has a chance to win a title with his team finally being healthy.
I'm a fan jokic I'm not a hater like nick wright is but he does benefit from this moist cupcake era let me ask you question David Robinson In this era vs jokic it would be fire
He does benefit from a slightly softer era but if it was that easy then every big would be putting up numbers like him. But i’d agree David>Joker for now but it’s neck and neck
It’s episodes like that show me nostalgia really & truly rules over logic. & furthermore, its sad so many people on a sports podcast, literally don’t watch enough basketball to understand the nuances that go along with being a good passer/playmaker.
The problem is that you know the guys dismissing LoW and Mars don't seriously watch and analyze Jokic's playmaking, from every level. He's already a great passer, but him being an elite scorer puts the fear of god in his defenders and gives him even more options. Defenders constantly mention how it's legit scary trying to defend him, because you're defending him and trying to predict which possible cutting lanes you left open and if there's an open man on the opposite side of the court.
They have been watching basketball longer than low and marz so wtf are you talking about. Low and marz is going off of highlights and watching jokic play
@@battousaithekingslayer9913 So, you're admitting they actually watch Jokic play? Also, Low does watch full games. Not saying they're always right (cuz, they're not), but they're right with Jokic.
@@piratemccall well context matters buddy Jokic was a 2nd rounder who split time his first few seasons like it or not how many centers have back to back MVPs or even multiple for that matter? That alone puts him in the top 10. Also Elvin Hayes was a power forward. You guys brag about Wilts over inflated stat padding and kill Westbrook for the same thing (no im not saying Russ belongs in Wilts convo).
@@piratemccall wilt played vs kindergarten players, can't compare... Wilt played 47 mpg, vs kindergarten players to repeat again. In 2022 after 20 47 mpg he would had hands and legs fall apart....so please 1960 vs 2022
@@MasenkOG Russ and wilt not the same at all wilt was the best player in the nba easily when was Russ the best wilt lead teams to multiple chips when Russ do that
Stockton made a career out of easy passes and dumping off to one of the best players of his era jokic is making role players look like quality starters 😂
Dwight howard 3× defensive player of the year while getting 20 points per game & 14 rebounds per game And LED his team to an nba finals The disrespect to him is crazy lol Its 2 sides to basketball and we ignore the most important side
@@Wegood1355 d12 has three straight defensive players came top three in mvp for like 6 straight years the man beat a prime lebron come on the d12 slander needs to stop
All of the other players mentioned played with multiple HoF, all-nba, all-star, all-defense teammates. Jokic has played with zero players who were even considered for any awards. I don't think people realize how crazy it is to do what Jokic's doing without ever playing with another all-star. His starting backcourt in the playoffs a couple years ago was Facu Campazzo and Austin Rivers. He played most of his minutes last year with Jeff Green, Will Barton, and Monte Morris, and he led the league in net rating playing with those guys, including an impressive 105 defensive rating. The dude is on another level when it comes to elevating the guys he's playing with. It almost seems like he could turn any lineup of random guys into a 120+ offensive rating unit.
Passing is very easy in this era with so much spacing you don't gotta have good players around you. You just need players who run hard off screens and hit shots. Which most NBA players can do now.
Jokic is already the 2nd best center ever. Only Bill Russell is better. Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq are not even close to his winning intangibles, basketball IQ, passing, feel for the game, ability to make teammates better, and long-range shooting. Wilt and Hakeem are much better defenders, but as leaders and all-around players they're not close to Jokic.
Not that crazy to say. Kobe has more arsenal of moves as a scorer but when you look how how many points he generates for his offense its one of the highest all time.
What becomes clear watching this is who actually watches Jokic and who doesn't. Some of you just can't handle that a Chubby 7 footer from Serbia is the best offensive centre ever and an absolute top 5 passer overall. And when it's all said and done, might end up number 1
People don't understand Jokics impact. If he's not playing, the Nuggets are statistically THE WORST NBA TEAM EVER. But if he is playing they are a 60 win team. And he's doing this with only offense as "Jokic has no defense"
I mean after Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Moses and D Rob you get to like Ewing, Unseld, Dwight, Parish, Mikan, Walton and McAdoo. Jokic is better than all those guys besides maybe Ewing and Howard.
Jokic is unstoppable, he can literally do what ever he wants, commanding his team, slowing time, clutch, making hes teammates better, making NBA history almost every week or months...and u said that he isn't top 10 centers... really?! He will finished his career as one of the top 5 player's in history.... That guy in the middle right is ridiculous
Jokic has a very good argument thats why. Its not actually egregious. Jokic is a lot more efficient and an all time great playmaker. 27 ppg on 67% TS (20% higher than league average) last year and with 8 apg. Jokics playoffs all holds up as well. Im not going to say Jokic is better than Kobe with certainity but its definately not a crazy take imo.
clears as a passer,has great team offenses with less than desirable pieces,clears as a playmaker and offensive rebounder,excellent off the ball,excellent screener and scorer from every facet (off screen,post,high post,3 pt line,midrange,rim,floaters) excellent playoff translation i fail to see how that is egregious
First, this convo is missing a whole alot of players who's HOF careers were made of assists like Fat Level or Bob Cousy. That said, the single biggest difference that puts Jokic above alot of the passers ya'll discussing is that Jokic plays in the 3 POINT ERA. And for as many knowledgeable dudes in the panel there are, not one of you looked at these advanced stats: Nikola Jokic has the highest PPA(Points Per Assist) of any center ever, and his average of 2.75 Points Per Conversion(touches that result in points) is amongst the highest of any player of any position EVER. (Basketball Reference). On the other side, being that Jokic is only 27 with a game that translates to playing 20 years because none of it is about athleticism, putting him in any GOAT convo except passing big mam is still premature, so let's just enjoy watching history instead of needing to rank where Jokic belongs in history..
1)neither of those names belong in the conversation. 2)the 3 point revolution isnt the biggest difference, the skill level is 3)considering he’s already comfortably the greatest passing big man of all time coupled with the other things he’s extremely efficient in on offense i dont see how the conversation for GOAT offensive center is premature
Pistol Pete ! I dare one them to say Jokic better than Pete passing the ball. Cause Mann nobody haven’t did bro passes yet 💯😭I’m 22 years old never seen more than 2 passes pistol Pete done in this era of basketball
@@aquartermil pistol Pete also played in an era where the only good player was Kareem so he would play those ridiculous passes as no one is really like that. Put Pete in this era I guarantee he's averaging half an assist and 12 turnovers a game
You can make a agreement but i agree he is not the best offensive big ever or a top 5 passer ever I don’t think he is better then lbj John Stockton Nash magic or Kidd or even cp3 because production matters but I do understand where low coming from but I would have to disagree
Defense is a part of the game but whenever people bring up a Bill Russell they always say well he didn’t score that many points even though he won 11 championships as the GOAT defensive player.
@@RecapRico you’re ridiculous. Modern NBA players have been playing in the AA leagues since they were like 12. They’ve been playing at a high level for years before they even get to the nba. Nba players in the 50s literally had other careers and the nba was a side hustle.
The disrespect to Jokic. Other than the centers that we usually put in the Top 10 and Moses Malone, he has more MVPs and peaked higher than any other center in the NBA.
You can tell they don't want Jokic. True hoop fans are gushing over this man. He makes him game talk for him resulting in less fans. He chose the teammate grade answers in 2k. You put up a fight and good on you because Jokic needs people like you
I agree with Low Jokic lead his team to the playoffs making players like Morris and Will Barton look good. His gravity leads them to easy shot . And it has production he beat the clippers in the finals with his play making
Morris and Barton been solid players since they came in the league bro you people are sick !!! Stop disrespecting these players Bru 💯😂especially Morris when Murray went out he stepped his game up !!
This is worse than how LeBron fans act tbh. At least LeBron reached a finals before they started riding him like this. Jokic can barely win 50 games. This is sad
@@mybestnugget7514 Lebron is arguably the best player off all time … His best two players got injured last year and he still made the playoffs in the West
Those people are only great at scoring, none of these people can run an offense compared to Jokic, none of them are bringing the ball down the court to initiate plays
Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell and Moses all have championships won as the first option with MVPs, Jokic with 2 MVPs so he easily is a top 10 center comfortably
I would add Bill Walton, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing... So the list is Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell, Moses, Walton, Jokic, Robinson, Ewing... Top 10 centers of all time... And Yes, Jokic is a better passer than Stockton...
One of the points I’m not seeing is that, not only does he have all the passes in his arsenal, but he’s doing this as a center! A primary ball handler that’s a legit center. That alone should give him more points in his favor
I Think maybe not best offensive but best all around center it’s just hard to pick your poison with his defense but he’s gets timely blocks and he doesn’t get in foul trouble so
It’s hard to debate young guys because they like to play devils advocate and go to extremes to make their points, especially for this generation of basketball.
@@Ginger2882. on offense no for either. But all time mikan has by far the bette resume. Walton is debatable. He doesn’t have longevity but he has an mvp two titles, a sixth man of the year and a fmvp.
Jokic will go down as the most disrespected MVP of all time, he might be a 3 time MVP and people saying he’s not even a top 10 all time Center, disrespectful
What's important to note is that Jokic is passing as a centre, so unlike most of the other great point guard passers, he's not passing the ball into the post or running a lot of pick and roll. Dude is having to create assists solely from handoff plays and post plays. More often than not he's giving guys open layups and dunks or 3s. Stockton was a very consistent passer, but had low difficulty passes. Magic is easily the #1 best passer, and I would say LeBron, CP3 and Nash are probably better, but it's tough to say.
Thats not even an argument lol. Jokic is like 5x the player melo ever was lol. Jokic has 3 seasons better than Melos best, 4th would prob be this year.
It's also amazing how Wilt's lack of championships and losing in the Finals hurt his legacy, but a guy putting up stats in an era where it is easier to score than ever is praised despite not winning a damn thing.
Competition as well. Wilt was losing to Bill Russell. It was a big man’s game, now the center position basically doesn’t exist. Does Jokić have these same numbers if Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, Shaq, & Hakeem are waiting for him in the paint?
How is it easier to score now than back then? There were no schemes to stop great offensive players there was no zone no hand checking. And no knew how to actually play defense. Pace was higher too y’all just like shitting on newer players cause they ain’t from your childhood
Everybody who disagreed with the Jokic take doesn't know basketball. He can make every pass and the whole teams offense is built around his passing at center. The offense for the Jazz was not built around Stocktond ability to get his teammates the ball outside of Malone. He never played without Malone so we can't measure it objectively. Malone literally shot every time he got the ball from Stockton
Remember, when centers have the ball in the paint the defense buckle down on them so it's easier to pass (not that it's easy just easier than a guard) especially when you are 7 ft. The guard position everyone is trying to stop you from passing the ball and getting the offense going.
@@Knownas_DonDada Yeah, if they had the offensive skills as Jokic but they don't. I'm not saying he isn't a monster offensively; just that he's not top 10 center all time.
Lo smokin dope jokic is not the greatest offensive center of all time, smh and mars is delusional He is not one of the five best passers of all time stop it
Going to be the only center in the top 10 who team had to hide his defensive issues. I told ppl years ago point center going to be a thing Gianni’s is a point pf. But using jokic assist stat as to justify then when they bring up Stockton they run and say it’s flash and the type of passes even though Stockton has the best assist turnover ratio among passers. But jokic will be a 7 ft Stockton at this point because I don’t see him ever winning. That’s why I hate low marz and dubz sometimes they care so much about offense when it comes to centers. When centers had to be able to be the anchor on defense.
This is why I currently have Giannis, Embiid, and AD ahead of him as far as bigs go. What they can do defensively allows them to impact games even on an off night offensively.
The old heads have longevity bias. If any of those players were playing right and now, and you compared them head to head, they all picking jokic over those players. People pick old players out of respect not actually out of Logic
@@yvans. never said he wasn’t the comment said “those players” making it seem like he is saying he is better than every center ever. Watch the wording next time, most of the ones I stated are better than joker
What? That's like saying "oh imagine picking 1 guy to shoot the ball and picking Magic" Putting him in a category where he isn't his best. He's an all around offensive player, not just scoring which makes his impact on the Nuggets offense so much bigger than any other center ever
Nah and Hakeem is my favorite all time. But he wasn’t as efficient like Joker offensively. Hakeem after bill Russel is the greatest defender tho. Overall he is greater than Joker too. But Nikola offensively is just an Artist.
Name center that has better handles/dribble than hakeem. Name center that has better footwork than hakeem. Name better center had better timing than hakeem. Named better center better shot fake than hakeem. Named a better center that carried a team to a ring with Zero allstar on team??
It’s hard to rank Jokic since he hasn’t been tested or played n outplayed any other big men in the play offs..we haven’t seen him overcome any great teams he just has great stats but nobody is saying his nuggets r a threat for a title contender
They were in West Conference finals with at that point mediocre team... That's before he became MVP and before MPJ and Murray got injured... This year they are finally relatively healthy and they are instantly top in the west with insanely stacked league.
@@MONEYMASTERSUS Stop it You are embarrasing yourself Young Jokic without a single All Star player, with Murray, with old washed Millsap, with young lost then stiff Porter at 20 years old against LeBron at full strength + 4 future HOF players Davis, Rondo, Howard etc + a bunch of elite role players like Pope, Caruso, Kuzma, Green etc. Not only did the Lakers cheat with the salary cap (a bunch of players like Rondo played for nothing in fact to get a ring), not only did the American refs commit brutal armed robbery against Denver, by ejecting Jokic with non-existent offensive fouls. Not only that-- LeBron has already hired McGee and Howard to help. Davis-Howard-McGee all on Jokic plus refs disgraceful criterion. You are a clown comparing young Jokic without a single All Star vs. 4 future HOF players together led by LeBron🙄 Davis would never have beaten Jokic in the playoffs without LeBron. Jokic without even a single All Star in the last 4 years playing against 14 future HOF players against him lol from LeBron to Steph to Leonard etc🙄
@@milosjovicevic6083 1: calm down sir it’s a new year you shouldn’t bring it in so pressed my guy. 2: you can’t have it both ways. You can’t brag about him beating kawhi a world champ then turn and make excuses for losing the next round 3: I wasn’t talking necessarily about the lakers beating his team I was talking about how Anthony Davis out played him that’s why I said when he went against a big on his level he got a shoe up his rear end
This is way too early especially for the center position. That’s an all time deep position (pause) in the nba. A couple of good seasons isn’t cracking top 10.
@@TheIcemanthomas I don't even think it is close ability wise Jokic can do basically every pass that Rondo could do if not more and I think he was a better decision maker than Rondo. Also he has more options to make great passes because defenses are actually scared of his shooting ability unlike Rondo.
@@cortezttd6225 2 MVPs, 1 Conference Finals, 4x All-NBA, 4x All-Star and that is not even considering this season. I am taking his 4.5 years over a lot of other centers
The only way I can understand LOW doubting Stockton is if I average 10 assists off of doing an entry pass to a great post-scorer who puts in work to get the bucket, therefore I'm afforded an assist. If I do that 10 times, then yeah. That's just me doing an entry pass while someone else gets me the assist.
Jokic is such an offensive presence that his ability to pass makes him such a weapon, Stockton was only known for passing for a reason that’s all I’m saying
People gotta understand its easier for jokic to find an open man then the great passing guards bc hes huge and creates double teams and crashes defenses still a great passer tho just need to understand the difference of difficulty
You see jokic passes? Compared to mark Jackson or John Stockton. Jokic creates a career highlight reel in a few games of assists that are more difficult than anything those 2 did in their career
I think if we just used this analogy imagine a center that is 6'11 with the shooting and the efficiency of dirk the passing of rajon rondo the playmaking ability of any great passing point ,rebounding of a Patrick Ewing,and the defense of 2014 Tim Duncan a man In the paint
The fact that they kept cutting low and kept yelling without giving any sound counter argument says it all. Marz didn't even need to talk to make his case. Any magician trick pass that you've seen on a nba court before, Jokic does it. But he does it while looking bored , that's why people are underestimating him
The Joker slander aged like spoiled milk
It’s pretty clear that very few people on this panel actually watch Nikola Jokic
Yep.. And it's sad
And they definitely don’t go bacc n watch games
Jokic being the greatest offensive center not even a bad take. And passing ability wise jokic is absolutely one of the all time greats.
Yeah. At minimum he is top 3 with Wilt and Kareem. I have him first though
@@Ginger2882. w
@@Ginger2882. shaq and Hakeem are better
@@jasonmoukala8909 I meant to say Shaq and Kareem. I still have Jokic top 3 because I think he is better than Wilt. I think Jokic is just way more dynamic offensively compared to Hakeem.
@@piratemccall Wilt was a ball hog and then he was a pass first ball hog for two seasons like Rondo because he wanted to prove he could lead the league in assists. Wilt was forcing all his assists through easy dumpoffs. Wilt lead his team to the best offense in the league once in his prime in an era with 8 teams. He scored a lot but his teams had a bad offense more times than they great offense.
Grown men fighting about sports with an intense passion is what I love about us. I know a lot of folks won't understand but if i was there i would have started singing Serbian National Anthem and then poetry to describe and honour the magic Nikola Jokic creates on the hardwood. It's so beautiful that whatever he does on the floor just makes you look at him with joy. For the lack of a better term, Jokic's game is incredibly aesthetic. And i can't stop stanning for the man!
Agreed. And I'd say top 3 passer. I've seen em all and nobody does it better than Larry, Magic or Jokic,
@@nikolaesthetic lol Bron is a better passer than Larry bird wtf
@@sosabelton2164u can make an argument that he is tho LEBRON is not clearly a better passer than bird or even Kidd
Dude said Jason Williams better passer over Jokic. That's nostalgia bias at its worst
He is
@@deetheoriginal3117 LMFAOOOO Lay off the crack
@@deetheoriginal3117 he had flashy passes but they didn’t contribute to great team offenses.
@deetheoriginal3117 that's absolutely foolishness. The man mistaking flashy passing for absolute genius playmaking
That's what was crazy lmfao
Jokic produced a team that was top 10 in PPG in 2021 and a top 6 offensive rating for his team with his 2nd and 3rd best player out so for them to discredit the production that Jokic was/is doing is insane.
They’re not discrediting him but to say he’s a better passer than John Stockton is super insane when he’s the All time leader in Assist
This man dragged a back court of facu compazzo and austin fucking rivers to the PLAYOFFS and a top 5 offensive rating in the league
@@1538superman doesn’t mean squat nba was diff no one is playing 82 games nowadays🤣
@@grief6052 they don’t get it smh
Do you know what the offensive rating even based on?
I promise you can tell who actually watches ball based off their take on Jokic. The fact that these guys were so shocked when low said Jokic a better passer than Stockton but yes this is facts. Look at the type of passed Jokic has to make vs the one Stockton made. Stockton just dumped it off to the big man 9/10 and that’s how he got 90-80% of his assist. Jokic is the one CREATING the plays. Jokic is such a great passer teams CANNOT double team him. Greatest offensive center of all time and I stand on that.
@@piratemccall I’m 23 and I’ve been watching ball since 2007. Your argument is such a dumb argument because not every nba players develops at the same speeds. For example Steph wasn’t the steph we know now in his first couple of years. Steph only averaged 19 in his first 5 years and later become an all time great. Since then he’s averaged at least 25 every year except for his 6th year which was 24. On top of all that a lot of the centers stats you posted have inflated numbers due to the era.
@@piratemccall look who can look at a basketball reference page. Box scores mean next to nothing in this argument goofy.
Facts.. This guys just look highlights
Stop it. 🙏🏿
Lies.. 😂😂
Jokic is a more impactful passer than Nash, Stockton, Kidd, and Rondo because he's a consistent scoring threat on all 3 levels. He draws doubles because he's almost unguardable 1 on 1 and he can then make a perfect pass to his open teammate
Thanks.
He should be as a center & a much taller player. He also playing in a much softer league
No he's not who is has Jokic face on a nightly basis?. All those top 10 center play each other more better competitor What he during on nightly basis tho is high ranking tho. He not playing really no center now 😄😄
The hell Jokic is. Nash was more impactful. It's like we all have short attention spans. Nash won MVP on the strength of getting traded and improving the Suns from a 24 win team the season before he arrived to winning 62 games. He ain't a better passer than Kidd and he isn't a better passer than Rondo. If you want to claim he's the best passing center of all time I will give that to you but there is no way you can claim to be an NBA fan and claim Jokic was a better passer than some of the greatest passing point gaurds in NBA history.
@@michaelallen8112 he routinely cooks Bam and gobert
You can tell who watches Jokic and who doesn’t. Mark Jackson and Rondo are absolutely not better passers than the Joker.
Nigga said Jason Williams 🤦🏿♂️
Mark Jackson can't even compare to the other two. And as much as I love Rondo, Joker is HIM
And they disregard who Rondo was passing the ball to🤦🏻♂️ Jokic clears
You a lie if you say rondo not you must not watched rondo 08-13
Once again look at who Rondo has as teammates and compare with Jokic. Rondo was a phenomenal passer but Jokic making average dudes look good
Jokic literally makes average players look like borderline all stars 💀
He made Barton and Morris starters and they are trash in freaking DC.. Barton couldn't play even on the bench of most good teams
THANKYOU
Aaron Gordon is the perfect example
It shouldn’t be crazy to say that Jokic is a top ten center. The bottom part of the center 10 is kinda weaker in comparison to the upper end. I also don’t think it’s crazy to say Jokic is offensively the greatest at the center position. Lastly I don’t personally think it’s a bad take to say Jokic is offensively better than Kobe(tho I disagree, I see the argument and I won’t say it’s wrong necessarily coming from a Kobe fanboy).
You sound like a Jokic fanboy
@@agendaxpushers1322he spitting tho
@@agendaxpushers1322casual
@@agendaxpushers1322 I am but I genuinely think it’s not crazy to say those things. Jokic has been playing historically efficient on the offensive side of the ball and might just win his third consecutive MVP which only Bill Russell and Larry Bird has done. He is imo an all time great playmaker, elite post player, elite from mid range and a solid three point shooter. Now he has a chance to win a title with his team finally being healthy.
Your right it'd insane to think that
these conversations is what makes me so excited for when jokic gets a championship
hmmm
Lol
I’m not even a huge fan of Jokic but he’s easily top 10
I'm a fan jokic I'm not a hater like nick wright is but he does benefit from this moist cupcake era let me ask you question David Robinson In this era vs jokic it would be fire
He does benefit from a slightly softer era but if it was that easy then every big would be putting up numbers like him. But i’d agree David>Joker for now but it’s neck and neck
@@jimmycharlotin7050 David Robinson would rape jokic
@@35inTHEwood it’s not neck and neck
@@jasonmoukala8909 It is when you look at David’s numbers in his prime and then factor in there’s another side of the ball
Both of Lows takes aged like fine wine
It’s episodes like that show me nostalgia really & truly rules over logic. & furthermore, its sad so many people on a sports podcast, literally don’t watch enough basketball to understand the nuances that go along with being a good passer/playmaker.
The problem is that you know the guys dismissing LoW and Mars don't seriously watch and analyze Jokic's playmaking, from every level. He's already a great passer, but him being an elite scorer puts the fear of god in his defenders and gives him even more options.
Defenders constantly mention how it's legit scary trying to defend him, because you're defending him and trying to predict which possible cutting lanes you left open and if there's an open man on the opposite side of the court.
They have been watching basketball longer than low and marz so wtf are you talking about. Low and marz is going off of highlights and watching jokic play
@@battousaithekingslayer9913 So, you're admitting they actually watch Jokic play? Also, Low does watch full games.
Not saying they're always right (cuz, they're not), but they're right with Jokic.
@@battousaithekingslayer9913after all this time of players choice yall still discredit low who literally made his career off analyzing basketball
Best passing big easy but top 5 passer ever is a bit premature. But he’s definitely a top 10 center already
@@piratemccall1960 vs 2022 stats, no way😂
@@piratemccall well context matters buddy Jokic was a 2nd rounder who split time his first few seasons like it or not how many centers have back to back MVPs or even multiple for that matter? That alone puts him in the top 10. Also Elvin Hayes was a power forward. You guys brag about Wilts over inflated stat padding and kill Westbrook for the same thing (no im not saying Russ belongs in Wilts convo).
@@piratemccall wilt played vs kindergarten players, can't compare...
Wilt played 47 mpg, vs kindergarten players to repeat again.
In 2022 after 20 47 mpg he would had hands and legs fall apart....so please 1960 vs 2022
@@piratemccall fucking played against Plumbers
@@MasenkOG Russ and wilt not the same at all wilt was the best player in the nba easily when was Russ the best wilt lead teams to multiple chips when Russ do that
Stockton made a career out of easy passes and dumping off to one of the best players of his era jokic is making role players look like quality starters 😂
Craziest thing about joker he’s putting up all these number on 28% usage
Dwight howard 3× defensive player of the year while getting
20 points per game & 14 rebounds per game
And LED his team to an nba finals
The disrespect to him is crazy lol
Its 2 sides to basketball and we ignore the most important side
Facts
Jokic has 2 MVPs🤷♂️D12 should have won in 2011
@@Wegood1355 d12 has three straight defensive players came top three in mvp for like 6 straight years the man beat a prime lebron come on the d12 slander needs to stop
@@kendreviusclincy4377 i love Dwight but he’s not even close to Jokic all time
Dwight always gets disrespected but the center position is one of the most loaded of all time. Idk if Dwight is top 10 but he’s definitely 11-12.
All of the other players mentioned played with multiple HoF, all-nba, all-star, all-defense teammates. Jokic has played with zero players who were even considered for any awards. I don't think people realize how crazy it is to do what Jokic's doing without ever playing with another all-star. His starting backcourt in the playoffs a couple years ago was Facu Campazzo and Austin Rivers. He played most of his minutes last year with Jeff Green, Will Barton, and Monte Morris, and he led the league in net rating playing with those guys, including an impressive 105 defensive rating. The dude is on another level when it comes to elevating the guys he's playing with. It almost seems like he could turn any lineup of random guys into a 120+ offensive rating unit.
Passing is very easy in this era with so much spacing you don't gotta have good players around you. You just need players who run hard off screens and hit shots. Which most NBA players can do now.
This aged like fine wine for LOW and Marz
When it's all said and done Jokic will be a top 5 center all time🔥🔥🔥
Kareem, Bill Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, & Wilt. Who is he kicking out?
Top 10.....not top 5
Depends on titles honestly cause top 5 is loaded. Individual accolades alone won’t get him in the top 5
He needs rings before he can even be considered for this. 🤷♂️
Jokic is already the 2nd best center ever. Only Bill Russell is better. Mikan, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq are not even close to his winning intangibles, basketball IQ, passing, feel for the game, ability to make teammates better, and long-range shooting. Wilt and Hakeem are much better defenders, but as leaders and all-around players they're not close to Jokic.
All y’all have to do is watch highlights of Stockton passing the ball. He was an elite playmaker
- stands around
- sees Karl Malone
- passes to Karl Malone
Absolute GOAT of passing.
Just done watching Stockton passing highlight. Man has the most accurate and boring passing highlight at the same time lol.
mfs really be watching STOCKTON highlights 😂😂😂
He was accurate...no fun
@@YY-wu7et y’all little kids need to go hoop man y’all sad
Damn that Marz said Jokic is better than Kobe offensively… y’all can’t let him make it with that
I saw when he said that shit live. I almost lost my shit💀
Yeah I agree with a decent amount of his takes but I think that’s his worst one next to the one Zion, and Kidd being a better defender than Payton
@@MasenkOG that’s not even a bad take tho. Jokic is top 5-10 all time offensively
@@Luciandl1top 5-10 offensively? Not at all
Not that crazy to say. Kobe has more arsenal of moves as a scorer but when you look how how many points he generates for his offense its one of the highest all time.
How is this even a debate?
Daddy Sabonis was a beast at passing as a big man
Yeah he was but he’s not a better passer than Jokic, his son is an amazing passing big too.
It’s crazy that it took so long for them actually see that jokic was easily a top 5 passer u can tell they wasn’t watching jokic
W Low and marz they been hip
What becomes clear watching this is who actually watches Jokic and who doesn't. Some of you just can't handle that a Chubby 7 footer from Serbia is the best offensive centre ever and an absolute top 5 passer overall. And when it's all said and done, might end up number 1
True, some of these dudes show that insecure Hotep energy.
He won’t be number 1 calm down idk man I don’t think he top 5
@qudariwilkinson9538 that's fine, you just don't know enough about ball.
People don't understand Jokics impact. If he's not playing, the Nuggets are statistically THE WORST NBA TEAM EVER. But if he is playing they are a 60 win team. And he's doing this with only offense as "Jokic has no defense"
I dont think there has ever been a clearer example of how little old heads know about the game today
I mean after Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Moses and D Rob you get to like Ewing, Unseld, Dwight, Parish, Mikan, Walton and McAdoo. Jokic is better than all those guys besides maybe Ewing and Howard.
He definitely better than Ewing.
How did you get 12 likes?
@@antwahnredding6294 if jokic and ewing played 1 on 1 jokic would win?. No he would get smoked
@@MarkWadeyI don’t think that’s how basketball works sunshine
@@01chohan not better overall
better offensively
Jokic is unstoppable, he can literally do what ever he wants, commanding his team, slowing time, clutch, making hes teammates better, making NBA history almost every week or months...and u said that he isn't top 10 centers... really?!
He will finished his career as one of the top 5 player's in history....
That guy in the middle right is ridiculous
Jokic really has no rival in the league so he doesn't have to ever work as hard on the defensive end
Glazing is crazy bro
So y’all ain’t hear Marz say Jokic is better than Kobe Offensively?😂😂😂😂😂 bruh don’t let him get on here no more with these egregious takes
Marz wasn't even born during Kobe's apex 2001-2003.
Jokic has a very good argument thats why. Its not actually egregious.
Jokic is a lot more efficient and an all time great playmaker.
27 ppg on 67% TS (20% higher than league average) last year and with 8 apg.
Jokics playoffs all holds up as well.
Im not going to say Jokic is better than Kobe with certainity but its definately not a crazy take imo.
Bro that shit is crazy cuz how do you even think that ??🤣
@@deejjay7442 more efficient and clears him as a play maker while averaging close enough points as other great offensive players
clears as a passer,has great team offenses with less than desirable pieces,clears as a playmaker and offensive rebounder,excellent off the ball,excellent screener and scorer from every facet (off screen,post,high post,3 pt line,midrange,rim,floaters) excellent playoff translation i fail to see how that is egregious
First, this convo is missing a whole alot of players who's HOF careers were made of assists like Fat Level or Bob Cousy.
That said, the single biggest difference that puts Jokic above alot of the passers ya'll discussing is that Jokic plays in the 3 POINT ERA.
And for as many knowledgeable dudes in the panel there are, not one of you looked at these advanced stats:
Nikola Jokic has the highest PPA(Points Per Assist) of any center ever, and his average of 2.75 Points Per Conversion(touches that result in points) is amongst the highest of any player of any position EVER. (Basketball Reference).
On the other side, being that Jokic is only 27 with a game that translates to playing 20 years because none of it is about athleticism, putting him in any GOAT convo except passing big mam is still premature, so let's just enjoy watching history instead of needing to rank where Jokic belongs in history..
1)neither of those names belong in the conversation.
2)the 3 point revolution isnt the biggest difference, the skill level is
3)considering he’s already comfortably the greatest passing big man of all time coupled with the other things he’s extremely efficient in on offense i dont see how the conversation for GOAT offensive center is premature
Pistol Pete ! I dare one them to say Jokic better than Pete passing the ball. Cause Mann nobody haven’t did bro passes yet 💯😭I’m 22 years old never seen more than 2 passes pistol Pete done in this era of basketball
@@aquartermil pistol Pete also played in an era where the only good player was Kareem so he would play those ridiculous passes as no one is really like that. Put Pete in this era I guarantee he's averaging half an assist and 12 turnovers a game
@@lolno6975 you crazy if you think that
Jokic is in the GOAT offensive player conversation and he's in the top five passers ever conversation. We know this. There's evidence.
He’s not a top 5 passer nor the greatest offensive player
@@jasonmoukala8909 Hè is just his tripple doubles are evidence enough
Also SWIPAGANG
You can make a agreement but i agree he is not the best offensive big ever or a top 5 passer ever I don’t think he is better then lbj John Stockton Nash magic or Kidd or even cp3 because production matters but I do understand where low coming from but I would have to disagree
A year later, Jokic is on his way to his third MVP in four years while averaging fourth-best assists per game in the league.
Defense is a part of the game but whenever people bring up a Bill Russell they always say well he didn’t score that many points even though he won 11 championships as the GOAT defensive player.
I never put old players in my all time list. Wilt and bill literally played with plumbers. I think bill would be a bench player in todays league
@@tommartyn524 Today's Players are fashion models and videogame streamers but ya make fun of plumbers 😂😂 c'mon bro u gotta do better
@@RecapRico you’re ridiculous. Modern NBA players have been playing in the AA leagues since they were like 12. They’ve been playing at a high level for years before they even get to the nba. Nba players in the 50s literally had other careers and the nba was a side hustle.
@@tommartyn524 I'm bugging or KD and team USA lost a game to a bunch of Ugandan Uber drivers?
@@RecapRico am I buggin or did the the USA team win gold?
At this point anyone can be top 10 since we just be giving it out to everyone after 3-4 years
Right smh
The disrespect to Jokic. Other than the centers that we usually put in the Top 10 and Moses Malone, he has more MVPs and peaked higher than any other center in the NBA.
@@piratemccall over plumbers and milkmen? overrated
Top 10 isnt a title😂 it’s a ranking. Rank 10 better centers
@@yokun1885 it aint disrespectful but if you really believe what Jokic accomplish these past four years is top 10 youre crazy
Low has to stop the Stockton hate
Jokic isn't an entry pass merchant sadly. Jokic assists on average are more impressive.
I agree.
Man Low fighting for his life at the top corner of the screen, wasn't that bad of a take fr 😭
I'm not even gonna watch this but I'm sure my man marz gonna be ranking some mid current players over old school greats like he always does
Where do you rank jokic?
He didn't
Not this time 😂 stay tuned tho
like i always do?
@@JG4TheGOAT yes u always do
You can tell they don't want Jokic. True hoop fans are gushing over this man. He makes him game talk for him resulting in less fans. He chose the teammate grade answers in 2k. You put up a fight and good on you because Jokic needs people like you
If Jokic was black ppl would agree but hey
I agree with Low Jokic lead his team to the playoffs making players like Morris and Will Barton look good. His gravity leads them to easy shot . And it has production he beat the clippers in the finals with his play making
Morris and Barton been solid players since they came in the league bro you people are sick !!! Stop disrespecting these players Bru 💯😂especially Morris when Murray went out he stepped his game up !!
This is worse than how LeBron fans act tbh. At least LeBron reached a finals before they started riding him like this. Jokic can barely win 50 games. This is sad
@@mybestnugget7514 Lebron is arguably the best player off all time … His best two players got injured last year and he still made the playoffs in the West
@@aquartermil if theyre so fucking solid why are they getting waived?
@@grief6052 not great fits for the wizards my guy but Barton def finna sign wit a playoff contender in the raptors so
LOW saying Joker is the greatest offensive center of all-time is crazy!!! The disrespect for Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and prime D Rob is crazy!
Those people are only great at scoring, none of these people can run an offense compared to Jokic, none of them are bringing the ball down the court to initiate plays
@@piratemccall Played in a way easier league since the NBA was racist af back then
Jokic beat him in tripple doubles in 300 less games
Kareem
Russell
Shaq
Wilt
Hakeem
Moses
Robinson
Dwight
After that, idk if I can put anyone else over jokic
Wes Unseld
Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell and Moses all have championships won as the first option with MVPs, Jokic with 2 MVPs so he easily is a top 10 center comfortably
Jack sikma better respectfully
Needs a ring to solidify it, but at this point just 1 puts him top 10 for me.🤷🏾♂️
Lets see if he gets one passing before scoring
I would add Bill Walton, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing...
So the list is Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell, Moses, Walton, Jokic, Robinson, Ewing... Top 10 centers of all time...
And Yes, Jokic is a better passer than Stockton...
@@aidene.nguyen go ahead and put Wes Unseld up there too
Man I’m glad Ticket wasn’t here to hear that pass thing😅
He would lost it
One of the points I’m not seeing is that, not only does he have all the passes in his arsenal, but he’s doing this as a center! A primary ball handler that’s a legit center. That alone should give him more points in his favor
Exactly.
Bro said LeBron’s assist numbers aren’t crazy…man literal just became the 4th all time leader in assists
I Think maybe not best offensive but best all around center it’s just hard to pick your poison with his defense but he’s gets timely blocks and he doesn’t get in foul trouble so
It’s hard to debate young guys because they like to play devils advocate and go to extremes to make their points, especially for this generation of basketball.
Oh please old heads still hold on to the old legends who played in a way easier league
It's crazy the Jokic take seems so crazy. He's nearly 7 ft and can make any pass, any delivery. It's not that far fetched.
Yea I'm just gonna stick with Fluent and Chill going forward. These young cats are tripping.
Old head bringing up Wilt like he saw Wilt in person. Please, you're like 50. 55 at most. You didnt see Wilt at all.
Kareem,Russell,wilt,shaq,Hakeem,Moses,…after that the list starts to thin out
So yea he’s a top 10 Center of all time
robinson , mikan , walton i got jokic over ewing so i guess so
@@cortezttd6225 You have Mikan and Walton over Jokic
@@Ginger2882. on offense no for either. But all time mikan has by far the bette resume. Walton is debatable. He doesn’t have longevity but he has an mvp two titles, a sixth man of the year and a fmvp.
@@Ginger2882. two way players, have you ever heard of that? i value deffens and offense, if jokic is too 10 all time he sneaks in at the 8-10 spot
I deadass didn’t even know this was a hot take
Jokic is easily top 10 passer all time
Jokic will go down as the most disrespected MVP of all time, he might be a 3 time MVP and people saying he’s not even a top 10 all time Center, disrespectful
Wilt lead the league in assists and points one year
What's important to note is that Jokic is passing as a centre, so unlike most of the other great point guard passers, he's not passing the ball into the post or running a lot of pick and roll. Dude is having to create assists solely from handoff plays and post plays. More often than not he's giving guys open layups and dunks or 3s.
Stockton was a very consistent passer, but had low difficulty passes. Magic is easily the #1 best passer, and I would say LeBron, CP3 and Nash are probably better, but it's tough to say.
Jokic is definitely the BEST offensive center of all time and honestly is a top 5 center of all time💯
Winning & Defense matters
Lol you lose me with that top 5 center of all time and I love joker.
Kareem, Russel, Shaq, Wilt and Hakeem are right now undoubtedly greater
He’s not top 5
@@blackprideb1236 show me a stat that proves jokic is bad on Defense
@@piratemccall back to back mvp I’m giving flowers where it’s due
The dude averages 6.4 assist for his career and he’s all of sudden on the mount Rushmore of passers?
assists correlate to passing ability how?
I believe that jokic is also the best NUGGET all time imo
Easily
No love for The Chicken?
Thats not even an argument lol. Jokic is like 5x the player melo ever was lol.
Jokic has 3 seasons better than Melos best, 4th would prob be this year.
@@MIZ0217 is melo even better than Alex English?
@@atribecalledlen3567 wouldnt know tbh
The boy in the middle is quite the Jokic hater
Wilt is the most overrated center of all time. Wow, he averaged 50 points on 40 shots a game, how incredible.
It's also amazing how Wilt's lack of championships and losing in the Finals hurt his legacy, but a guy putting up stats in an era where it is easier to score than ever is praised despite not winning a damn thing.
Competition as well. Wilt was losing to Bill Russell. It was a big man’s game, now the center position basically doesn’t exist. Does Jokić have these same numbers if Kareem, Wilt, Bill Russell, Shaq, & Hakeem are waiting for him in the paint?
How is it easier to score now than back then? There were no schemes to stop great offensive players there was no zone no hand checking. And no knew how to actually play defense. Pace was higher too y’all just like shitting on newer players cause they ain’t from your childhood
John Stockton is NOT passing out of doubles like Jokic😪 smh he had no left fr
Everybody who disagreed with the Jokic take doesn't know basketball. He can make every pass and the whole teams offense is built around his passing at center. The offense for the Jazz was not built around Stocktond ability to get his teammates the ball outside of Malone. He never played without Malone so we can't measure it objectively. Malone literally shot every time he got the ball from Stockton
Remember, when centers have the ball in the paint the defense buckle down on them so it's easier to pass (not that it's easy just easier than a guard) especially when you are 7 ft. The guard position everyone is trying to stop you from passing the ball and getting the offense going.
By that logic, more centers should be able to generate assists at a higher rate than guards…but they dont.
So why isn't every center doing what Jokic is doing? Oh yeah, because it's not that easy
@@chrishansen8119 I said not easy....Jokic is a beast offensively...without a doubt. But top 10 center all time....no.
@@Knownas_DonDada Yeah, if they had the offensive skills as Jokic but they don't. I'm not saying he isn't a monster offensively; just that he's not top 10 center all time.
Lo smokin dope jokic is not the greatest offensive center of all time, smh and mars is delusional He is not one of the five best passers of all time stop it
He's better than them.
Name yo top 5
@@atribecalledlen3567 magic Stockton Kidd nash cp3 Lebron Oscar Robinson, andre miller etc
Points+Assists is more productive offensively than just Points
Going to be the only center in the top 10 who team had to hide his defensive issues. I told ppl years ago point center going to be a thing Gianni’s is a point pf.
But using jokic assist stat as to justify then when they bring up Stockton they run and say it’s flash and the type of passes even though Stockton has the best assist turnover ratio among passers.
But jokic will be a 7 ft Stockton at this point because I don’t see him ever winning.
That’s why I hate low marz and dubz sometimes they care so much about offense when it comes to centers. When centers had to be able to be the anchor on defense.
I’m not a Jokic guy tho lol
idk how many times i have to talk ab jokic defensive issues before people listenn
This is why I currently have Giannis, Embiid, and AD ahead of him as far as bigs go. What they can do defensively allows them to impact games even on an off night offensively.
@@davidriley6843 jokic rarely have a bad offensive game...
even when hes not scoring.. his assist number will be high
@@davidriley6843 Dude, you must be high to write something like this
Magic Johnson is the best passer all things considered, stats, flare, making others look better, winning, etc.
The old heads have longevity bias. If any of those players were playing right and now, and you compared them head to head, they all picking jokic over those players. People pick old players out of respect not actually out of
Logic
Thats not always the case. But in this case I do think Jokic is 1 or 2 top offensive center.
Hakeem,shaq, Kareem, are undoubtedly better you can argue wilt ,Robinson, maybe Russell
@@ballin3230 so he is top 10 right ?
@@yvans. never said he wasn’t the comment said “those players” making it seem like he is saying he is better than every center ever. Watch the wording next time, most of the ones I stated are better than joker
@@ballin3230 Again is he top 10 ?
That’s my only question I never say you didn’t think he was or not top 10.
My question isn’t deep.
Imagine picking one Center on your team to get your team a bucket
Ever
And saying Jokic
What? That's like saying "oh imagine picking 1 guy to shoot the ball and picking Magic"
Putting him in a category where he isn't his best. He's an all around offensive player, not just scoring which makes his impact on the Nuggets offense so much bigger than any other center ever
Jokic is most definitely top 10 i don’t understand the jokic hate at all
Jokic hate? Nigga what? Y’all love this man as much as those bronsexuals. Lol he get no criticism.
Jokic gotta be top 10 Center, man literally had the MOST efficient PER in the history of the NBA.
Barely top 10 center
@@Riowehow bout now bum
Hakeem is the best OFFENSIVE center of all time. From ball handle moves footwork
Nah and Hakeem is my favorite all time.
But he wasn’t as efficient like Joker offensively.
Hakeem after bill Russel is the greatest defender tho.
Overall he is greater than Joker too.
But Nikola offensively is just an Artist.
Name center that has better handles/dribble than hakeem.
Name center that has better footwork than hakeem.
Name better center had better timing than hakeem. Named better center better shot fake than hakeem. Named a better center that carried a team to a ring with Zero allstar on team??
@@piratemccall yea these dudes tweaking
It’s hard to rank Jokic since he hasn’t been tested or played n outplayed any other big men in the play offs..we haven’t seen him overcome any great teams he just has great stats but nobody is saying his nuggets r a threat for a title contender
They were in West Conference finals with at that point mediocre team... That's before he became MVP and before MPJ and Murray got injured... This year they are finally relatively healthy and they are instantly top in the west with insanely stacked league.
Are you taking some drugs?
He won against Leonard in 2020 who was NBA champion year before that lol
@@milosjovicevic6083 and when he played against a big on his level Anthony Davis he got a foot in the ass lol
@@MONEYMASTERSUS Stop it
You are embarrasing yourself
Young Jokic without a single All Star player, with Murray, with old washed Millsap, with young lost then stiff Porter at 20 years old against LeBron at full strength + 4 future HOF players Davis, Rondo, Howard etc + a bunch of elite role players like Pope, Caruso, Kuzma, Green etc.
Not only did the Lakers cheat with the salary cap (a bunch of players like Rondo played for nothing in fact to get a ring), not only did the American refs commit brutal armed robbery against Denver, by ejecting Jokic with non-existent offensive fouls. Not only that-- LeBron has already hired McGee and Howard to help. Davis-Howard-McGee all on Jokic plus refs disgraceful criterion.
You are a clown comparing young Jokic without a single All Star vs. 4 future HOF players together led by LeBron🙄 Davis would never have beaten Jokic in the playoffs without LeBron.
Jokic without even a single All Star in the last 4 years playing against 14 future HOF players against him lol from LeBron to Steph to Leonard etc🙄
@@milosjovicevic6083 1: calm down sir it’s a new year you shouldn’t bring it in so pressed my guy.
2: you can’t have it both ways. You can’t brag about him beating kawhi a world champ then turn and make excuses for losing the next round
3: I wasn’t talking necessarily about the lakers beating his team I was talking about how Anthony Davis out played him that’s why I said when he went against a big on his level he got a shoe up his rear end
Let me on this podcast please fellas 😂😂 I’m asking you nicely
This is way too early especially for the center position. That’s an all time deep position (pause) in the nba. A couple of good seasons isn’t cracking top 10.
He’s a back to back mvp he’s earned it
They already lose when they raise their voice against low
Rajon Rondo is a better passer then Jokic? That’s insane.
In terms of ability that’s not a crazy take at all. Impactwise it’s jokic for sure tjo
@@TheIcemanthomas I don't even think it is close ability wise Jokic can do basically every pass that Rondo could do if not more and I think he was a better decision maker than Rondo. Also he has more options to make great passes because defenses are actually scared of his shooting ability unlike Rondo.
Rondo had a big three. The productivity and impact that Jokic is doing with a unhealthy team makes him a 10x better passer than Rondo.
He's easily a better passer than Rondo 🤣
Rajon Rondo is a far better passer than Nikola Jokic like are you ppl clowns fr!??
Yea Jokic and embiid top 10 centers to me
Entire panel are prisoners of the moment. 🤦♂️
Name 10 centers better than Jokic all time
@joceja23 I am saying if he retired right now he is a top 10 center
@@Ginger2882. list jokic resume pls
@@cortezttd6225 2 MVPs, 1 Conference Finals, 4x All-NBA, 4x All-Star and that is not even considering this season. I am taking his 4.5 years over a lot of other centers
@@Ginger2882. top 5 offensively for sure, top 8-10 all time
The only way I can understand LOW doubting Stockton is if I average 10 assists off of doing an entry pass to a great post-scorer who puts in work to get the bucket, therefore I'm afforded an assist. If I do that 10 times, then yeah. That's just me doing an entry pass while someone else gets me the assist.
Not to mention it'll be 10+ assists per game due to me finding open shooters periodically
Low: “we’re not talking about assist we’re talking about passing”…
Also Low: “Jokic averages 9 assist a game”
😜 🤪🤪
Marz started this whole argument and just sat and watched the destruction lol
The other guys got mega emotional
Jokic isn't the best passer in the league so how is he top 5 all time
What???
@@kaycorpz7891 what are you confused by brotha?
@@Merkseasonyour crazy
@@kaycorpz7891 and why is that
@@Merkseason Joker is the best passer in the league lol. 😂
The disrespect to Stockton is insane. These young ones don't know what they're talking about....
John Stockton is the most overrated player in NBA history. He is literally a bi product of Karl Malone.
The entire conversation goes to show you most fans don’t know wtf they be talking about 🤦🏾♂️
Jokic is such an offensive presence that his ability to pass makes him such a weapon, Stockton was only known for passing for a reason that’s all I’m saying
*even more of a weapon* my fault
5:16 Unc was ready to swing😭
People gotta understand its easier for jokic to find an open man then the great passing guards bc hes huge and creates double teams and crashes defenses still a great passer tho just need to understand the difference of difficulty
You see jokic passes? Compared to mark Jackson or John Stockton. Jokic creates a career highlight reel in a few games of assists that are more difficult than anything those 2 did in their career
I think if we just used this analogy imagine a center that is 6'11 with the shooting and the efficiency of dirk the passing of rajon rondo the playmaking ability of any great passing point ,rebounding of a Patrick Ewing,and the defense of 2014 Tim Duncan a man In the paint
They would call that the greatest player of all time
The fact that they kept cutting low and kept yelling without giving any sound counter argument says it all. Marz didn't even need to talk to make his case.
Any magician trick pass that you've seen on a nba court before, Jokic does it.
But he does it while looking bored , that's why people are underestimating him