Why the RX-8 Rotary engine is AWFUL | fullBOOST
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- We take a quick look at why the Mazda RX-8 Renesis 13B-MSP rotary engine has a reputation for poor reliability and it's inability to make horsepower compared to older generations of the 13B twin rotor engine.
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#mazdarx8 #rotary #renesis #fullboost #rx8 #13b
I think that if it weren't for stricter emission regulations, the rx8's renesis engine would've been massively better, more reliable and make more power ( as i think it was initially intended too). Ohh well, at least it keeps the car parts market going :P
All about those car parts !!!@
So true the EPA killed the company Caterpillar diesle engine
@Supreme Leader Spock im saying that probably the original rx8 engine design was not like the one they actually produced... they made a good engine, emissions mandate that they change the design thus ruining the engine
I mean vs the older FC NA engine, it's got about 50 more HP.
I watch your videos 👍
Fact:
I bought a new RX8 13 years ago. To this date I see in odometer 175.000 km with 1st engine. Compression test made recently and showed 7,0 and 7,2.
The car's maintenance is under factory's standard and no modification ever made. It's still 100% as day 1.
I speak only for my experience and I really love this car.
*People like you don't know anything about cars...*
doktorbimmer false it’s people like YOU
Says the guy with “bimmer” in his name .... sadly I’ve replaced main seals a lot on m54 blocks ....... the head gaskets are also garbage ........ everything has its quirks though right?
@@doktorbimmer *puts everything in bold so people might listen*
@@doktorbimmer actually it is you. Stupid ass casual
The only thing wrong with a Mazda RX8 is unknowable owners.
*The only thing defective is the engine... the rest of the RX-8 is just an exercise in bad design.*
@@doktorbimmer The RX-8 is a lovely car to drive and the engine is as smooth as silk all the way to 9K rpm.
@Kevin Wildash *The problem is getting to drive them, or to even start after the apex seal fail at 50k miles.... Smooth really is a great analogy for **_SLOW_*
*Kevin Wildash ***_"Lovey to drive"?_** Certainly would if you were used to driving a rusted-out Daihatsu Charade Diesel!!!! Lol!!!*
*There are dozens of cars with reciprocating engines that rev to 9K rpm now... they are faster too!*
@@doktorbimmer my dad bought his with 11000 is done 65000 and it still got all the power from the day had with no issues at all. People don't know how to maintain them properly
"About 150hp off where they need to be to be exciting"
And you're one strong gust of wind off being bald.
LoL no one is going bald champ.
MonsterKat he drives an rx8 🤣
the salt is real in this crybaby
Comment was as stout as a saxa picnic pack
hahahahahahahaha
"They're choked from the factory and you can't really hear them."
Have you DRIVEN a RX-8? I owned a 2009 RX-8 for nine years and I assure you, the exhaust was the only goddamn thing I could hear after a while. Driving down the freeway, all I could hear was NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN for hours on end.
*You bought a RX-8??? Well, that totally ruins your credibility as someone knowledgeable about automobiles....*
@@doktorbimmer Good point. First hand experience in an RX8 certainly lends no credability in a discussion about.....RX8's.
@@knotten33 only an idiot would buy an rx8
You should teach it other letters then
@@sandervanderkammen9230 how dare you enjoy something that me and my forum buddies dont like.
"An MX-5 is a total nugget car" - Oh, ok then :-(
*Both cars really needed a turbo V-6 or a V-8... at least the MX-5 has a reliable engine...*
doktorbimmer or just come turbo stock
doktorbimmer too slow for my taste reliability is not enough to save the mx5 from its nugget title
@@doktorbimmer V6? Lmao.. fuck off. V8? In a mx5? Nope.
@@abccba2344 Well it would be really bad news for you to find out that the mx-5 was designed to be able to house a v6 under the hood easily, specifically the taurus v6, but they never took off in great numbers in america so the powerplant upgrade was shelved by mazda at the behest of their ford overlords.
You're talking a lot of nonsense here, especially comparing that to twin turbo 13B or non standard NA 13B. Give Mazda some credit, be happy we got it and try to understand some things from another point of view that's not power, boost and burnouts. I would like to present the MSP as something we're happy to have in this day and age with all the restriction for car makers.
(And again if You think it's unreliable underpowered trash, I will gladly give You my address and You can send all of that trash to me for free. I will gladly take the offer)
1. Try to build a non MSP 13B engine that passes legal emissions and inspection in that particular car with that kind of power and torque in the whole rev range and make it idle at 900 rpm like a civilised vehicle. The car was primarily intended for export to EU and USA. It's not an easy job to build a naturally aspirated rotary sports car with that good/stiff of a chassis in this day and age. Due to all DOT and ECE regulations about pedestrian/passenger safety + modern comforts it had to be stiff and heavy. Your ported carbed 13B with port timing for that kind of power levels would probably fail to move a heavy car with 18" wheels and gear ratios for German autobahn. MSP pulls linear from 0-235ish km/h and You can cruise comfortly at highway speeds.
2. Comparing this to an FD is again wrong in so many ways. FD3S is a wonderful child of Japanese bubble economy when overspending on projects was not an issue and technology was all out and something to brag about. You couldn't justify the retail price if You would have built it as a sequential twin turbo at the times of global economy crisis. The car wouldn't sell at all and wouldn't exist at all in this day and age. Today is even worse and it can't exist because it's not electric and millennials don't have interest in anything besides Jukes or Priuses.
3. It's again highest power NA rotary production car delivered from the brand that's damn reliable and repairable if You know what You're doing. If You compare the specific output with any Otto cycle engine with same displacement You will see that highly strung 1300cc 16V 4 cylinder race engines deliver about 200BHP at around 9k RPM and last about 20-30 HOURS in top form prepared by top people with top quality materials. If You compare with that, 100k-200k kilometers is decent, isn't it?
4. If one would consider apex seals as a consumable item (AND BEARINGS for those less sophisticated owners that don't do proper oil changes) and replaced them just like let's say a timing belt on Your average European modern diesel vehicle( that costs about the same to replace and it's due every 60000 Km), the engine would last forever if maintained well with proper oil changes and spark/coolant checkups. As it revs higher than ANY production rotary engine, apex seal wear quicker and are lighter/thinner to begin with. As they get thinner they tend to slip out from the rotor and burn out through the exhaust due to really high temperatures. Mazda's fault is that they probably couldn't afford to spend a lot of money to educate all these techs at the dealerships around the world to do preventative maintenance at service intervals. The whole story would be a lot of different and less expensive/less harsh for owners around the world and the reputation of the RX8 would probably be much better.
Also housings are really really reusable and there is a lot of chrome left after some machining for many many kilometers or miles if You prefer. It can be refinished to a point and rechromed as well if You know what You're doing.
Fuel economy sucks and if You're not mechanically inclined You should avoid MSP or any other rotary engine to begin with.
If You accept it for what it is, it's a beautiful piece of machinery.
I couldn't agree with you more! My 8 has been my daily for the last 5 years and it still runs as good as it always has. Mind you I do run a SOHN, upgraded ignition and a midpipe which I think are must have mods to get years of 9k rpm bliss. Even people within the rx8 community constantly bash these cars and their answer to everything is LS swap. I will continue to maintain and love my car for years to come and the renesis will remain at the heart of it.
This video was for wankers because so many wankers love giving rotars shit. Plenty of views and likes from the twat family....
a112CRO help me rebuild my rx8 engine ? u can walk me thru the process it sounds like ..
I didn't read any of that, rx8's are garbage though
Glock Rocks you can't read that's why 😂 have to get somebody else to read for you 😅 I'm glad you don't like RX-8s because it keeps one more wanker from driving one 😵👈
We take a quick look at why the Mazda RX-8 Renesis 13B-MSP rotary engine has a reputation for poor reliability and it's inability to make horsepower compared to older generations of the 13B twin rotor engine.
FD turbo conversion.
ruclips.net/video/K1izFVD6oDM/видео.html
Thanks for posting. Any reason why you can't do a peripheral exhaust port conversion on a Renesis rotor housing? The castings look the same and the holes for the manifold studs are even tapped. Doesn't look like it would be that difficult with a decent CNC mill. It might need some sort of machined insert in the port but looks doable. Then use early plates. Just thinking to the future. I'm guessing the old type housings are going to become harder and harder to get.
Poor reliability? Compared to the older 13B engines it's got triple the reliability.
@@damianstevenson1196 My old 1973 13b RX4 was way more reliable than an RX8. So good it kept running until all the chrome wore off the housings and it lost compression. Still ran. Just lost power.
@@trentmarlowe7655 that would have to be a total one off. A survey conducted back in 1975 stated that almost all owners of rotaries would have seen mechanical problems like seals going before 50,000kms. Today it's not unlikely to see an RX8 well into the 130 to 180,000km range. Hell, I've driven one with 230,000kms!
I’d disagree that this car is boring to drive, while the renesis doesn’t make insane power it still revs to the moon and gets to any road going speed with ease. Also my RX8 just ticked over to 160k on original housings and irons, and I can buy a reman Mazda engine for $3800 with a $1000 core refund bringing it to $2800 SHIPPED. I’m sorry but please keep chevy engines out of these cars lmao
featured - yea I also disagree that the RX-8 is a boring car to drive. What are these fools smoking?
I mean, of course if you compare it to a boosted piston engine which actually makes TORQUE, then yea, the RX-8 might FEEL slow... but it ain’t. Freakin to pull up old Japanese circuit racing where they would run stock Supra’s, Skylines, NSX, whatever with an RX-8 in the line up. The RX-8 is usually never far behind. So CLEARLY, you have to look at the overall picture, and not just engine paper numbers.
As far as reliability... yea, Mazda could have done it better, like by having 3 oil injectors in the Series 1 engine vs 2 injectors to better Lube the Apex Seals and yea they could have educated people better on preventive maintenance but... what’s done is done. Deal with it. Lol.
I have 142,000 miles on my 04 w/ manual and LOVE IT. Plenty of power for street driving.
featured careful there mate, your vested interest is showing.
*That is more than an RX-8 worth these days...*
*If the RX-8 was so exciting to drive? Why did they sell so poorly that Mazda took a bath on the poorly selling model and discontinued them?*
Does it have the original apex seals? If it does, butter my butt and call me Victor, because it's hog killin' time!
I have a 09 rx8. Despite the lack of power, it's a fun car to drive.
Low powered cars are fun to drive, it's not fast. If you don't care about fast don't rev on people...
@@dj4monie I already have a sleeper/daily. The rx8 is just a weekend car for now.
For a daily sports car its perfect imo
*Some people have never driven a real performance car and simply don't know any better.*
@@doktorbimmer I'm seeing you literally everywhere in this comment section, my man, I'm getting the feeling you really don't like rotaries.
If you don't like rotaries, you probably shouldn't watch a video about them. Unless you wanna be able to excuse being an asshat to people that don't have the same opinion as you (I take it you knew people that like rotaries were gonna click this video and comment that it's actually not that bad). You keep talking shit about the RX-8 and rotaries in general, but I don't think you've actually driven one, or you have unreasonably high standards. It's really fun to drive for a car that costs about $5000 on average nowadays.
You don't get the kind of handling you get with a rotary from a V8 or anything with more than four cylinders, it's also lighter than most cylinder engines and that low weight combined with the really good handling combined with the power it makes (especially for the weight of a 13B engine which is 112kg or 247lb (Even 4-bangers which usually come in at about 300lb or 137kg usually generate considerably less power than the 13B engines)) make for a good car, the only bad things about them are their high-maintenance nature and the fact that they're usually not very emission friendly. I'm well aware that the RX8 complied with emission standars until about 2012, but that's not the reason they didn't sell, that's because people who only knew how to maintain piston engines bought them. The reasonably high price when it was new didn't help either, as it was £21,995 or €24,646.11 or $28,267.93 for the base car. The sales were also pretty bad because of the declining interest in sports cars, which is reflected today by the fact that you rarely see an affordable sports car on the road today, and because people thought the rotary was too troublesome. Also, this is something off topic but I can't seem to find any good reason, why do you *always type in bold* ? All you're doing is typing two more keys than you have to.
TL;DR: Don't watch a video about rotaries/the RX8 if you don't like them/it, at least not if all you're gonna do is bash people who like them. Also, your hatred for the RX8 or the rotary engine isn't very well substantiated. And there's no reason to type everything in bold.
Exhaust port from earlier 13b is designed for turbo
As a guy who owns a number of FD’s and rx8’s, I track the rx8’s and had have zero issues with any of them. Standard engine unopened 55k miles+, Good breathing mods, run premix, up the oil pressure on the earlier models, lives on the redline. By far not a crap engine. Yes underpowered on long straights but still always in front of friends in Fords and civics and spend a lot less time with the bonnet open in the pits.
When I get the chance to take go out for a drive I would have as much fun in my 09 R3 than I would in my fd’s.
Always baffles me why people would buy a rotary powered car and put a Piston engine in. That is what the Rx models are all about.
Sounds like a ticking time bomb... gonna blow any second now.
Premixing is monumentally stupid..
How stupid do you have to be to pour the wrong type of oil down the wrong filler hole???
Apparently people that know nothing about automobiles flock to these unreliable pos cars like moths to a flame.
I guess some people need to learn the hard way
Let's check back when you get to 400,000kms oh wait, that engine never will...
@@vancefindlay6969 NO engine will do 400,000kms with regular track days. S2000s and LSs are pouring smoke when beaten on that much. The thing with rotaries is, they last LONGER when beaten on, whereas 4-stroke piston engines generally last 10x longer on the highway than on track.
@@vancefindlay6969 Rob Dahm's 1200hp rotary made 10 serious drag races in a day without any disassemblings and was still great. Others get straight in the garage after 1-2 races max. Be blessed boy
@@Martin4zHe went a single day with it not blowing up?!? WOAH THATS RELIABLE. Grow the fuck up lmao
There's many things that make an engine great, and yes reliabilty is one of them, and I'm with you, rx8 reliability is shocking, but that doesn't mean it's a bad engine, what makes them great is how unique they are, the rev up so high and so willingly, the way they climb is so smooth and satisfying, and the sound can be amazing
Doesn't sound like you know very much about engines...
@@sandervanderkammen9230 no man, that applies to you, I understand how great reliabilty and modability is, and some engines just will never be able to reach that no matter how much money and work you throw at them, but that's not the only measurer of what makes an engine great, there's more to an engine then holding power, certain engines can make you feel special, some engines are smoother then others, and the feeling of wringing an engine right up to 9000rpm is sensational, you don't know much about cars and driving if you can't understand that
@@dallasmellsop5488 Sounds like you need to get out and test drive some real enthusiasts cars...
I'm guessing you have never driven a V-12 or any kind of a real race car..
@@sandervanderkammen9230 🤦♀️ that's what's great about a rotary, theyre not normal, they feel special, in the same way a screaming v10 does (though not at all to the same extent), but for 1% of the price.
You've lost all credibility talking about "v12 or any kind of real race car"
A real race car and a v12 are so polar opposites, even trying to compare a real race car to a street car is unfair (when talking about real race cars, I mean a real race car, not some tarted up m4 gts etc)
@@dallasmellsop5488 There is nothing great about Wankel engines, it's a design that never matched its expectations and is no longer viable alternative to reciprocating engines.
The Wankel was ultimately a failure which is why it has been obsolete in the manufacturing industry for nearly a decade.
2003's "BEST NEW ENGINE" 🤣
Oh, how times change...
They were good when new... Not so for reliability 🤣🤣🤣
I really respect Mazda for having the balls to do something different from everyone else. Years ago I had the fortune of being able to buy a Eunos 800 with the 2.3 Miller cycle supercharged V6 very cheaply. I drove it for a couple of years and I still say even by modern standards that is one of the best road car engines ever made even though it never sold in large numbers. It had power, flexibility and refinement way ahead of it's time.
@@johnwilson1794 Mazda have always been "out of the box" when looking at their powerplants, the early 90's were full of gems, the whole K-Series range are good, but the KJ was the pinnacle.
Sadly for revheads, the focus on emissions (probably a good thing) harpooned the rotary's performance:longevity ratio.
Today's Mazda skyactiv-x powerplants are a marvel of engineering also.
Mitsubishi Galant vr4 better
@@shancyroesner9212 than what?
A couple of things. The engine is wonderful for what it is. Not a single things wrong with it. It’s job was to make the maximum amount of power/torque in a production NA 13B while still being emissions compliant which it was until 2012. It also made the most power of any production NA rotary engine ever produced (238HP or 190whp vs. 150HP or 120whp in the S5 NA 13B - last NA production rotary before the Renesis). The reason the Renesis doesn’t make any power over stock with intake, exhaust and/or porting upgrades/modifications is simply because it already makes all of the power, it is a maxed out engine in stock form. Put simply the Renesis 13B is the perfected version of the NA 13B engine.
Some things to keep in mind when comparing to older engines.
1. The Renesis is non-optional NA only (no turbo variant like the RX-7s - FD was non-optional twin turbo only)
2. The older NA rotarys did last quite a bit longer than the Renesis does on average, but that is largely due to the fact that they make substantially less power. If an older NA rotary engine is modified to make equivalent NA power/torque as the Renesis it will be substantially less reliable and horridly inefficient.
3. The Renesis is better in every category across the board compared to all prior production NA Mazda rotary engines.
*Also just something to think about for comparison sake and why I see the Renesis as a far superior motor vs the older NAs. For my 1980 SA22C I’m building a 76-78 cosmo 13B large street port using a complete modified Renesis rotating assembly (rotors, eshaft, stat gears and a super lightweight flywheel). With the same porting and stock cosmo rotating assembly this engine made 154whp and 136 ft lbs of torque which is great considering the car only weighs 2,300 lbs, but regardless it’s still a rather weak motor. With the Renesis rotating assembly the 0.8:1 compression ratio increase should theoretically give me another 22whp (if I’m lucky) which would put me at 176whp from a fully built NA cosmo 13B which is equivalent to a worn and torn high mile Renesis.
*Nate you are completely full of bullshit, the Renesis is the worst RX engine ever made...*
*Nate you are no expert on this topic so please stop pretending to be... Anyone that buys their oil cooler mounting brackets in the Walmart hardware dept is a nothing but a fuckin amateur hack!*
doktorbimmer Pretty obvious that whatever his level of expertise that he has encyclopedic knowledge of rotaries over you and why not? Anytime that could be spent by you learning about them is sooner squandered here reminding everyone else how smart you are. I see what's going on. You take your lessons from Donald Trump. Insults and lies. Full of insecurities. Can't stand for others to have what you cannot. Happiness.
@Gregory Timmons *Are you Nate's new fat cow??? He likes the heifers... Lol!!!!*
@Jack Thomas *Funnily enough you were saying childish insults in another thread that other people use and yet here you are?*
Swap it with the 13b from the previous generation RX-7
Emissions killed the engine. That exhaust port is a disgrace.
*Wankel engines are simply not able to compete with reciprocating engines.*
@@doktorbimmer they're not for everyone. They have a very niche market. For a daily or street car they just can't compete. Too impractical and meticulous to drive on a day to day basis.
For serious racing applications they're pretty great. Every rotary car made handles amazing due to the weight being behind the front strut tower. They don't have any reciprocating mass so you can just rev the hell out of it which keeps it from carbon build up. That's also why track rotaries last way longer than daily driven rotaries. They're easy to work on since they're so small which gives you a lot of engine bay room. And they only have 3 moving parts which makes it super easy to rebuild. Porting can be done for practically no money if you know what your doing. And because of how they work exhaust flow is it's best friend and you don't have to worry about scavenging or having too much flow cause there's no valves to be damaged. Which is why the renesis is especially garbage. On top of the shitty center iron design, Porting the exhause is difficult cause coolant channels run right underneath the exhaust port. Rotaries aren't efficient engines and the center iron port traps a lot of carbon in the closing side of the port which then eats your side seals. For me if you get an rx8 just throw that engine away.
Braddah E *True, they mostly appeal to folks that don't really know anything about engines at all, and try to pretend they do. Currently they have **_No Market_** these engines have been out of production for almost 7 years now, and that is because they couldn't sell enough.*
*Too unreliable and not enough low end torque for normal driving, that and the truly obscene fuel consumption...*
*Really? because my 1977 Ro-80 handles almost as bad as Mazda REPUs... my M3 has the engine behind the strut towers too, it is not unique to Wankel engines. The MX-5 handles better than the RX-8 and it uses the same chassis... and it has a 4-cylinder engine.*
*Wankel engines have very heavy reciprocating weight... much higher than a typical Otto type piston engine which is why the internal components of a Wankel turn so much slower...just 1/3rd of the crankshaft speed.*
*If your Wankel engine suffers from carbon build-up it is because the compression is low and the seals are already damaged....*
*Well, if that was true shops would charge less to repair them... which is certainly not the case... **_BULLSHIT!_** they do not last any longer on the track and they DO NOT have just 3 moving parts... this false urban myth doesn't pass the sniff test... it completely omits all of the tiny, extremely fragile sealing parts that cause all the reliability problems. The Renesis has over 235 moving and seal related parts.*
*Unfortunately most vehicles owners can fuck-up a simple oil change ... precious few have the skills to correctly refurbish an engine let alone properly modify one.*
*Not true, because the fixed exhaust port is a major flaw.. the Wankel engine has LESS combustion efficiency, LESS thermal efficiency and is LESS mechanically efficient. High EGTs is due to less fuel converted into heat before the exhaust port opens and less heat that is created in the chamber getting converted into horsepower... all your power that should be going to the wheels is trying to escape through the exhaust.*
*AGREED the best RX-8 is the one you never bought... the second best RX-8 is the mistake when you bought one and swapped a reciprocating engine into it! **_Cheers mate!_*
@@doktorbimmer ha ha funny lad ''dont know anything about engines THAT'S EVERY CAR EVER yeah of course not everyone is going to know or care about it like i don't know or care how my toilet works everyone needs one. So you can't generalize everyone also i only read the the first sentance and then you started waffling so i stopped reading. Many thanks nice one
@@doktorbimmer Also if we only used cars that were the most efficient we would only drive diesel cars
Having a BHR built MSP, basic greddy turbo kit and a pro tune, its how it should have come from the factory, or a 20bMSP. It would have added to the cost, but it would have been unreachable in stock form for the 350z and s2k in that day. Mine is at 260-270hp with the stock greddy kit, and it so much more of a car than it was stock its insane, the torque alone makes it.
Couldn't take my eyes off that vice. Seen it in bunnings. Definitely need one.
Troy Graham it’s awesome. Highly recommend it
It's a good looking vice to be fair
You do not understand, the RX8 is not a race car to be modify its a normal daily drive car been abused by people that think they are smarter than engineer designers, My RX8 Hi Power got 167000 km on the clock and still start every time up
*How many times have you replaced the engine?*
Excuse me?!?!?! What did you say about FCs?!?!?! Oh no you didn’t
@Rain ™ *Then why did models with them sell so poorly? Why did Mazda discontinue them years ago?*
Emmisions and MPG. My FC would get close to 8 mpg and burn 1 quart a oil a month. great fun car though.
maybe the theorized Skyactiv-X Rotary might be a thing... doubtful. but they finally made a Supra.ish
@Hauskins *They certainly had shitty fuel economy but they were not discontinued because of emissions, the RX brand was discontinued because people refused to buy them... sales dwindled after 1986.*
@Hauskins *The Wankel engines cannot support Skyactiv-X HCCI technology... this is simply not possible.*
@@doktorbimmer if you watch engineering explained you’ll see that you’re wrong, and the reason why sales dwindled was because of poor fuel economy, reliability etc you only buy one of these if you know what you’re getting into
I was going to like the video till he said he'd LS swap a rx8. That's the last thing I expect to hear from rotary specialist
#jdm life new to the channel ? If so welcome... ls swap is an on going here mate. Everything is LS swapped these days !
@@BackyardMechanics not got anything against LS engines they great motors. Easy to build easy to get power out of but for me it takes the whole point away of buying a jdm car. Go buy an American car and LS swap that. Its like 2j swapping a vette or rb26 swapping a mustang lol both amazing engines but just dont belong with each other r
@@sabz_bhp To be honest, if I won the lottery I would do a 26B swap into a Corvette just to level the playing field lol
So a stock renesis engine whose intake looks like a bridge port makes as much peak power as a bridge port 13b but is more drivable and quieter. OK you guys are boost addicts and it wasn't engineered for boost. It pisses all over a stock 13b.
It needs to be a four rotor. A four rotor N.A. would make almost 500hp. Why don't Mazda use 3 spark plugs per rotor like in the 787b? Why don't they just detune the LeMans engine?
*The RX-8 needs a LS swap.*
i agree, if they made it even a 3-rotor it would have been so much better, and a 4-rotor would have made it a c5 killer, but then it would have cost a fortune, and was already expensive. they are fugly in any case. i love how cheap they are now..
ruclips.net/video/sL3bqkIrawg/видео.html
*Well, a 3 chamber Wankel is automatically 50% more likely to suffer from premature apex seal failure and 4 chamber 100% more likely to fail with far greater repair costs not to mention a very thirsty engine with limited power output... there is a good reason why the LS V-8 is still manufactured in the millions per year and the troublesome Wankel engine obsolete for years now....*
doktorbimmer how old are you? You’re a legit dumbass
I think it's funny how people say the Renesis engine couldn't make power and then ignore that it is the most powerful non-turbocharged production rotary that Mazda ever made. It actually had more power than the RX-7 turbo and wasn't that far behind the 1992 RX-7 twin turbo engine...without forced induction.
That is exactly why the Renesis engine is so unreliable, Mazda clearly exceeded the power limit imposed by the Wankel design.
Only reason why they're unreliable is cuz people dont know how take take care of one. Probably like you guys lol
*Thanks to the NHTSA recall investigation we have the facts... and that old false myth is finally busted. the truth is these engines die quickly regardless of how they are driven or maintained.*
*Customers that showed documented proof that their RX-8 received all the proper service and maintenance still suffered premature engine failures, Mazda was later forced to reimburse these owners for engine repairs... and extended the warranty as part of a class-action lawsuit settlement in America.*
-I own a 2010 RX-8. Bought it at 4 years old after someone had it on a lease for 4 years(40k). The engine crapped out a few years later at 80k, and I had the engine replaced by a used engine with 30K on it. It runs well.
-Recently, the repair shop flooded the car by not running it long enough when they moved it, and they had to use a tow to pull it to get it started. The good news was that before that they replaced the plugs and sprayed ATF fluid in the engine. Whatever they did, It now as a lot of power. It is quicker off the block and if you don't watch yourself on the highway, you can go 90-100 mph without even feeling it.
-I love this car, but you have to know what it is. It handles like a dream. Sooooo good.
-It is smiles per gallon, not miles for gallon. Enjoy!!!
*Flooding is caused by low compression... your engine is dead again...*
@@doktorbimmer Normally I would agree, but the flooding was caused by them moving the car from the repair bay to the lot. They should have let it run for 5 minutes. All good now. Thanks.
*If the engine is healthy and the compression is good the engine will not flood, I know you must be in denial but you need a new engine.*
@@doktorbimmer RX8s will flood if not allowed to get up to temperature. I used to have one, flooded it a couple of times when I first got it, did another 40,000 miles on it and then sold it with the engine still making good compression at 88,000 miles. I used to run a little bit of two stroke oil in the fuel at the suggestion of a friend who's way into rotaries.
Rx8 seems to make more power n/a then any of the other gen 13b's. Thinking about swapping one in a first gen.
it's the 10:1 compression
@@rallyguden9091 Compression alone doesn't account for doubling the horsepower. It's the ports. They're simply a superior layout for combining NA performance and streetability. But they're much worse for making 1,200hp with a turbo the size of a raccoon, which is a big part of why the dyno-warrior rotary set don't like the Renesis.
you don't buy a RX8 for the engine , you buy it for the chassis , rigged as fuck!
10k$ for an rx8 😂😂 they are 1-3k in Germany 🤣
Same in UK
Germany is smart sell low because they know they owner will be spending thousands in maintenance
@@mojojoji5493 Thing is, even if you assume you're going to be spending the £2k that a rebuild costs, turning that £2k RX-8 into a £4k RX-8, it's still a pretty awesome car for that price. I had one for a while and it was great fun.
Just a shame that the fuel costs are absolutely atrocious. My current car has 50% more power and uses half as much fuel.
@@ChrisErwood you mean
*you are going to be spending 2k and you are rebuilding it 🤣
@@ChrisErwood good car just 2/10 reliability
Did you just call the GT-86 and MX-5 nugget cars? How the fuck do you drive on the roads that you actually need that much HP? The RX-8, while being insanely inefficient, was an absolute blast to drive and is, to this day, one of my favorite attainable sports cars. Try harder lads.
Whats with all the miata hate lol? they are great cars that are incredibly fun and cheap to race. I'd take a stock na miata any day over some high horsepower fwd P.O.S. or even most AWD cars.
scotth because the owners of these cars are normally easy to trigger 🤣🤣😝
@@BackyardMechanics haha I own a 2017 camaro ss 1le and have never owned a miata, just speaking the truth. Go watch a miata cup race and tell me that shit doesn't look like fun.
Just fucknuts and arsecandles with no idea what they're like on the track. I've a 250bhp Kraken/ TD04 enhanced Mk1 on Meisters and it's a crazy little bitch on the road and a mildly tweaked RX7/ RX8 eater on the track. They're SO much fun with factory power but when you've buckets of torque from 3k rpm to the redline they are superb road cars with effortless overtaking ability, decent rubber is required mind!
*The RX-8 is no sports car... and not a enthusiast car either... a proper bodged job from Mazda.*
I don't understand why you said that RX8 with Renesis engine is not a fun car to drive. I completely disagree.
Sounds like you have never driven a proper performance car.
The RX8 did OK for a compact sedan... but it was not a sports car or a GT.
my dad's got a rx8 evolve bought it with 11000 miles and now it's done 65000 thousand miles. With no issues with the car except a starter motor. People don't know how to look after and that's why the end up blowing up. And it's a really nice drive as well and loads of his mates have said how good of a driver it is. And completely different design to what other cars are out there they all look the same bring back RX8👍
*Wow, so the original engine failed at just 11,000 miles? sounds like he is about due for engine number THREE!*
*That's a great story but the NHTSA recall investigation put that old lame ass excuse to rest once and for all. The investigation found no link between how the cars were cared for and the extremely high number of premature engine failures. Owners that had fully documented records of service and maintain also suffered the engine failures.*
*Mazda did not challenge these finding and voluntarily recalled the Renesis engine in the U.S. and reimbursed owners that paid for new engines out of pocket.*
@@doktorbimmer my dad bought it with 11000 miles. Now it on 65000 miles and he's had it tested and it's perfectly fine. I'm not saying it was perfect. But there has been people forgetting to top up the oil. I was just stating my dad's has been fine.
@Dean Bustin *Sometimes they go 70,000 miles before the apex seals fail... that is still truly horrible reliability and durability for a car with so little power made in the 21st century.... which explains why Mazda dropped the Wankel engine like a bad habit after the RX-8 fiasco.*
@Dean Bustin *True, the people that know very little about cars or engines are the same ones fooled into thinking that buying an RX-8 is a good deal....*
I think this video is quite misleading, your physical example on the bench does not include the other end plate which has another exhaust port in it and you keep mentioning poor performance? which other mazda 13B rotor produced almost 240hp non turbo from factory? the answer is none, the Renesis makes ALOT more power N/A from factory than any other 13B example, and not just peak numbers, the mid range torque is much better, on top of that it uses less fuel and produces less emissions in the process. If you were to modify a 13B REW N/A to make the same 230+ hp I suspect it would also not last very long and the mid range wouldnt be anywhere near as good as the Renesis due to the porting required to make that sort of power N/A.
Thats like saying a more modern EFI 4cyl makes more power than somehting from 20 years earlier, thats not that much of an achievement.
@@fullboost I agree, and in this video it seems as though you completely gloss over the achievements of the Renesis and focus only on the bad, most of which is a function of tighter emissions control. You're not comparing apples for apples and it's misleading.
Say what you will be maybe underpowered I still love mine. And on a twisty tracked you should know the RX8 has the advantage. Definitely has flawss and a short lifespan. Driving a rotary engine is fun without question
B Ty like I said, with another 100hp, they would be an unbelievably great all round car. I’ve driven many. If they had another 100-150 ponies they would be killer
Backyard Mechanics your absolutely right
*The RX-8's performance is mediocre at best and certainly not worth the hassle unless you pick one up cheap (under $500) and do an engine swap project.*
doktorbimmer false you have no clue what you’re talking about and I bet you’re 13 now.
You need to try a real performance car... the RX8 is just a mediocre sedan.
The reason why you think the side seal clearance is too high is because you're not measuring it correctly. The side seal is tapered so in order to check the clearance correctly the side seal has to be pushed down and wedged with feeler gauges. Once you do that the clearance will be much tighter- .002=.004" Also, you're comparing a turbo RX7 engine to a Naturally aspirated RX8 engine. The older natrually aspirated 13b engines didn't make anywhere near the power of the Renesis engine at factory specs. The only way to make more power was to port them. The worse thing you can do to a Renesis engine is baby them and build a bunch of carbon inside the engine. They like to be ran hard, like all rotaries
Come to the states rx8z are like 1500$-5000
Sold mine in 2011 miss the chassis but fc turbo is the one for me miss my s4 ! I need another rotary!
I looked into an RX8 as a project because with blown engines in the scrap yard they can be had for even less. But to be worth doing honestly I would do a triple rotor/20B and then run a huge single on it = 700hp and the chassis easily handles that kind of power. The RX8 transmission won't but if your doing 20B you should find a Tremec or something. That is just expensive to do and there better ways to spend your money unless you are a hardcore rotary guy.
Anthony Thomas yeah everyone and there mother wishes they could build a 20b/26b but in the US getting oem cosmo parts is a arm and leg so those swaps often end up as money pits takes years to complete uniless u got every part u need on the table !
You're from the states, nobody in Australia gives a toss about your opinion.
Georgie b you gave about 30 seconds to type your comment you fucking wank
Everything is only as good as you look after it. My father used to say ' even the strongest engine some idiot will manage to break it"
Block off the old x8 exhaust and drill a new hole where the x7 exhaust location is, and create a new manifold, problem solved.
JB Weld and a holesaw FTW. 👍
Unfortunately the RX8 rotor housing doesn't have the sleeve that runs through the water gallery
People already put the older housings on and block off the exhaust holes in the plate. Not sure on performance differences tho.
@@nk0723 have to at least do full street port to make decent use of the other housings. Bridgeport will give much better power gains and is far better if you are going turbo
@@mobiusclean6440 if you are going to block exhaust port and drill new one, why it should be a problem to weld water gallery ? :D
The reason why the housings *seem* bad is the recommended oil for the RX-8. Mazda recommend 5w-30 oil for an engine that already runs quite hot, so it meant little lubrication was available. But, if you run 15w-40 or 20w-50, you can expect better housings in the long run. The 5w-30 was for getting an extra 0.0001 mpg, that's it. Also, underpowered? 230 hp in a 1300 kg car is pretty peppy, and it's not intimidating to drive with a bit of gusto.
Solo encuentro aceite 15w40 para motores diesel. ¿Puedo usarlo en mi rx-8 o cualquier otro rotativo? Gracias.
The reason the housing get damaged is because apex seals are inherently unreliable and weak, when they fail by design the destroy other components.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 mate I've got an original 105k mile motor that hasn't blown up. You can prevent your motor exploding if you just treat it well.
@@willlong4258 Wankel engines don't blow up, they lose compression and horsepower at around 50k and then limp around for years until there is not enough compression to even start.
@@willlong4258 That's not true, there is absolutely nothing that can be done to make Wankel engines reliable... and I can prove it.
With a good driver they will do same lap times as a HSV at Sandown. A great little cheap track car, but yes a bit under powered on the straights .
*With the right engine swap they run even faster lap times and an LS motor can lay down some serious power on the straights... don't waste you time and money on the Renesis... it belongs in the scrap heap.*
@@doktorbimmer yes but big bucks to swap motor, costs just keep blowing out . Its ashame because such a great chassis which would also be affected by extra weight with engine change.
*Yes, the Miata chassis is an excellent one from Mazda... of course the reason the MX-5 continues to be a huge success and the RX-8 a very disappointing failure, boils down to just one thing... the Wankel engine is just horrible, it lacks power, torque, reliability and has terrible efficiency. Had Mazda developed a proper turbo V-6 or a small V-8? The RX-8 might have been a good car.*
It's not awful .. the demand in hp is 600hp .minimum these days... and these engines should be in a motorcycle car/something small
The Wankel engine was invented for motorcycles and several companies developed them for bikes... unfortunately they were awful in this application too.
Keep driving prices down. I'm fine with that. I'll take the 8's suspension geometry over any other car out there. I do have another idea after my current rotary project is done. I'm going take a reny, shove it in a corvette and scrap the LS. Thanks for the inspiration.
*The MX-5 has the same suspension geometry... without the weak, unreliable engine and heavy sedan body work.*
@@doktorbimmer different platform. different geometry. Beemer please.
*Same platform... the only difference is the MX-5 is lighter and has the more desirable wheelbase... **_Powerhauz please!_*
@@doktorbimmer Same platform? Get off wikipedia, mate. Desirable wheelbase? Hmm doubt. NC miata's are referenced as the worst iteration of the line. For my racing application, I'll take the well balanced rx-8 and its lightweight engine. Have a good day.
*Damn straight kid! The **_SAME_** platform. The worlds most popular track car is the MX-5, the RX-8 was a failure... due to its weak engine combined with a heavy sedan body.*
How can you possibly hate this engine revs to 9000 and is 1.3 litres making 170kw
*When it has no torque, shitty fuel mileage and the lifespan of a Mayfly... Thankfully Mazda no longer makes these garbage engines.*
*Its not a 1.3 liter... its a 3.9 liter engine or 2.6 when compared to 4-stroke Otto engines.*
doktorbimmer mate every rotary has shitty fuel milage
@Fred Miler *We are talking about Wankel engines son... don't you know the difference????*
*Wankel engines all have shitty torque output and reliability too... its why they are obsolete since 2012 in the automotive industry which was its last holdout in the market.*
When you design a engine that works thats totally different from internal combustion engines, i'll listen to you. Any buddy and talk shit on someone elses accomplishments. The rotary needs improvement just like every other engine on the market. But its a amazing powerplant, with only 3 major moving parts
*Really? because the Mazda parts list shows over 235 moving and seal related parts for the Renesis engine... Myth busted!*
Ray, you are correct. Only three *major* moving parts.
@Kevin Waldash *So are you saying that Wankel engines can operate without critical moving parts like apex seals??? Not counting these critical moving parts is kinda like, well... **_Lying_*
@@doktorbimmer ive had them torn apart 3 MAJOR MOVING PARTS. NO CAMS NO VALVES NO TIMING COMPONENTS
@Ray Johnson *_YOU ARE A LIAR!!!!_*
Great run down of the renesis engines limitations and drawbacks. Would you guys consider doing the same for the 12a? 12at? 13bt 20b? Thanks!
*LS SWAP!*
@@doktorbimmer
LS engines are overrated
@@EbilEnemyofBurgerTown +50% more stock horsepower, DOUBLE the torque plus more reliable and better fuel economy..
Cheaper too!
The renesis is amazing! Once you learn to shift in its sweet spot at 6k rpm it's plenty powerful
*That's when it blows an apex seal out the tailpipe and floods every time you try to restart it.*
@@doktorbimmer I just sold my rx8 with 49k miles and it was still running strong.. All rotary have a drinking problem. You must give the renesis a half of quart of oil every 500 miles. Otherwise you starve the engine of oil including apex seals if you wait until 3k oil changes.
*You were smart, or just lucky, 50k is about when they usually blow up... The Renesis was a very weak, unreliable engines that is not suited to the car or any performance applications... in short, it was a turd.*
doktorbimmer Except... that’s not true. And you repeating it 1,677 times will make it about as true as Donald Trump and Sean Hannity insisting we have a “national emergency” on our southern border. So repeat your bullshit as many times as you like. My ‘05 with 46+K miles continues to run as well as the day I got her. She’s the most reliable car I’ve owned in over 40 years of car ownership. And that’s - are you sitting down - a fact. Something obviously quite foreign to you.
@@Saboda53 Doktorbimmer trolls every RX-8 video on RUclips using *bold* text.
So happy you called out the "purists" who defend cars with peanuts for horsepower.
Evil DSM from a dsm fan, gtfoh
*The RX-8 is, without any doubt the shittiest Mazda to ever be sold with the RX name badge... anyone that bought one is obviously not an automotive enthusiast.*
wasn't there lawsuits against Mazda for the false or misleading horsepower ratings? They were originally advertised at nearly 250hp but lose much more than the typical 15-20% on the dyno.
*Yes, Mazda was found guilty of misrepresenting its performance figures... admitting the figures published were not specifications from vehicles as they were actually sold. Mazda offered to buy-back all of the effected cars or offered owners a $500 gift card towards dealer service work.*
*Mazda was also found guilty in a separate case of destroying customer satisfaction surveys filled out by RX-8 owners who had experienced premature engine failures that Mazda refused to cover under warranty... Mazda offered to reimburse owners that paid for new engines out out of pocket and extended its powertrain warranty on models with the Renesis engine.*
yeeess yeeeess (rubs hands together) bring those RX8 values down! keep a great car cheap!
if you have an IQ of over 80 (I know thats difficult for LS and BMW owners) then you shouldn't have a problem rebuilding, making and keeping them reliable
especially a weekend secondary car. whens the last tine you drove your fun, weekend car 200k miles?
@ERNIE BRINK ROTARY 🤣😷🤣😷 you do you bud Im glad youre happy lol
My 1st car was an FC Turbo. Sold it after 2 years and got the MX5 ND. The MX5 is a great car but did not feel the same. Sold the MX5 and recently bought a absolutely mint 1 lady owner 86’ FC NA with 92xxx km over a Series 2 RX8 with much less km.
Also a rebuild for the Renesis is around $2k more than a 13B from the Fc and FD.
The only RX8 is worth buying is the Spirit R version. In Japan, they are worth around the same as the FD starting from $30,000 USD.
The FC is more fugly than a plastic garden shed... and that only thing you say about it.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. Series 1-3 RX7 was ugly for me back when I bought the FC. But now, it grew on me and I would love to own one.
@@MrMeoow91 True, there is a fat girl getting pregnant every minute somewhere in the world...
We could have talked for another hour on the unfortunate down sides to this engine. What else would you add to the list of negatives for the engine in the RX8?.... or alternatively, what are some of the positives ??
Biggest positive is there is ample room for an engine conversion :P #LSTHEWORLD
Get the Renesis, JB Weld the side port, holesaw that capped exhaust port, GTX42, put it in a red 626, send it. 😎🤣😂
@@MafiaboysWorld I like this guys style.
@@fullboost You are not far off the mark with people putting a GM 3.6L V6 in the RX8s
@@TylerVance1776 Wait until you see that style on camera soon. 😈😉
FC's awful to drive..... well good sir, i disagree. I think. I dont really have a way of comparing but. I think a similar video to this but going through why you feel that way would be a good watch. Having said that, mines 90% aftermarket suspension wise and hard mounted haha.
FC fall apart, rust easily and don't drive as well as an FD or RX8, you are myopic because you own one.
atheosxgaming my fc was the best RX7 I owned. It is still talked about by my friends. Easier to drive than my sequential FD when mid corner and transitioning turbos 😅
I drove a GT RX8 with sorted suspension and I loved it. I think a tidy RX8 will certainly be worth some coin once they all get crashed, blown up and become rare like all the other rotary cars.
@@RETMTM I also have a GT RX-8 bought new in Australia in 2010. The name is a bit confusing because it's equivalent to the R3 model overseas, but without the Bose sound system. It includes the better suspension, Recaro seats, body kit etc. Only about 20,000 km on it because I only go for the occasional blast through the hills on weekends.
I agree that they are nice to drive, with low center of gravity and roughly 50/50 weight distribution. On fast uphill sweepers on the tire adhesion limit at 160kmh, with traction control and limited slip differential, the power doesn't matter. An engine swapped RX-8 with a big heavy LS mounted up high to clear the steering rack, and also front heavy, will be left behind in the dust.
And that's with the rotary spinning up to 9K rpm while staying as smooth as a turbine. Love it!
Kevin Wildash fuck yeah. You're a lucky bastard. I'd genuinely like to have my FD and an RX-8 GT parked next to each other.
*The FC is a cheap plastic garden shed... if you think its a great car? Well, then you have never driven a great performance car!*
If anyone has ever owned one they already know why it sucks. It's a grenade at 80K
Nobody was talking about how awful the RX8 "is" until a couple of months ago . Kids on the internet bashing a perfectly good car.
*Where have you been? The RX-8 is widely known as the worst RX model ever made and was the subject of one of the largest engine failure recalls in U.S. history...*
Plamen Pavlov Ignore herrdoktor Plamen. He is a constant presence here in these comment sections. These frequent tow truck rides he ends up taking when he attempts travelling by BMW leave him rather bored and cranky.
@Gregory Timmons *Then please explain why Mazda lost $3 billion dollars on the RX-8 and was forced to discontinue it and the entire RX brand????*
I remember when talked to the Mazda guy at the LA auto show when the RX8 was still coming.
That guy said the tye RX8 takes everything good about the 13B an gets rid of all the flaws of the 13B. It was to be the perfect rotory. If I saw that guy today I'd punch him in the face
It is the perfect rotary for NA application. It's the highest and most efficient NA horsepower the 13b can make as we know it so far. He's not wrong. Look at every other NA twin rotor. Less power.
Look at RX8 prices in the UK. Almost £free
Gotta be a good easy engine conversion out there?
*LS SWAP IT!*
Just buy one with a good chassis and a blown engine get it rebuild for 1.7kish and you got a refurbished engine and brill car for sub 3k.
I daily drive one at the moment and it's been no different to a regular car expect 100-300ml of oil every 1k miles.
Just came across this video. While I agree with much of what is said I think it's overly harsh. When they have enthusiast owners that do regular oil changes (every 5000kms) I've seen them last over 200,000kms. There are even some over 200,000 miles on original engines in the US. Much of the negativity surrounding the engines comes from guys used to older 13bs that just never understood the Renesis and tried to apply what worked on those engines to the Renesis. The comment re the hybrid engine making 50 extra hp is a joke imo . I've actually tuned three engines like this myself and they all made around stock power 190-200whp (but they were able to hold it an extra 1000 or so rpm). Low to mid range they all lost significant power.
Show me another 1.3 naturaly assperated car that will outperform it.
PS as with any performance car if you don't look after it then it will blow up!
*You're another one of those rotards that thinks the 13B is really a 1.3 liter... how pathetic.*
doktorbimmer how isn't it a 1.3
@Tyre smoke Tv *Because it is not the actual amount of air displaced by the engine, NSU used this contrived method called **_"tax displacement"_** to cheat the registration tax laws in Germany and other countries which had invested in becoming a Wankel licensees.*
doktorbimmer you really trying to call people dumb when you’re just copying and pasting shit you found of a website
@@doktorbimmer Bruv, 1.3L = 1308cc (roughly 80 cu in)
wtf a 350hp rx8 on 235s is a fucking death trap
You guys really hate the rx8 don't ya. ther is a lot of things that you can do to prevent all of the above from happening
how would you go about preventing how the engine is ported/made? sure there's some things you can do to help, but it won't help the exhaust port location or early oil port locations (didn't they know the middle of the apex seal was the hottest/most in need of lubrication? why did they point them away? haha)
@@metalinvalidmatt ther is a place on the block wer you can drill and tap a new oil feed to lube the middle of the Apex Steel or run a 2-stroke fuel mix or both and street port the exhaust and intake yer it's still no fd but ther still not as bad as these blokes say thay ar
Not once in that video did we say we hated the RX-8, we just stated how disappointing the factory engine is. 👍
There may be many things you can do to prevent the issues from happening. Mazda should have done their R&D, not made their customers do it for them. They didn't, it was a poor job of engineering.
@Philip Geleta I agree with nearly all of that. I don't really agree on it handling better than an FD, but that's opinion based, so there's no point in arguing that.
What if you machined a peripheral exhaust port and the end plate port with a custom manifold?
The problem with the engine is that it's not a Barra.
just ls swap it and it won't be gay
ls swap if you wanna be gay
@adam causer *The RX-8 will always be gay... but with an LS swap at least its fast and reliable....*
@@doktorbimmer LS fast ? HAHA typical LS owner. Go in a Barra and you'll know what fast is. There's a reason why barras chop LSs on the daily.
@Big Chief *I prefer Ford myself, the LS is over 60 year old push -rod engine technology and frankly a bit boring... but the Barra is not available here and a Coyote motor is well, too good for an RX-8.*
Can you Frankenstein one together to make a good 13B??
But rRotoryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!
Have you not seen the triangle!
Are you not entertained!!!!!!!
It’s not awful Mazda, could have easily made certain aspects for reliable. I actually think it’s a great platform, they just need to improve apex seals
Apex seals are inherently unreliable and less durable than piston rings in reciprocating engines.
Nothing can be done to solve this fundamental flaw in the Wankel design.
I love the RX8, it’s great..... for business 🤣🤣😝
@Iedy Iedy Pro Tip...
If the guy that posted this is also the one that's showing you why the motor is so shit in this video, he IS the rotary specialist. 😂🤣😂🤣🤦🤦🤦🤦
I love the RX-8, too. Especially mine, now running problem-free for 14 years since purchased new. (Oops! I Guess I shouldn’t say that as it’s apparently impossible. Sorry! Hate it when facts get in the way of a dark, compelling narrative!) Finally, something you guys should be aware of: the 8 is the superior automobile.
Richard ... facts.. like Mazda doing a voluntary recall and replacing engines in 04/05 models in 2006 after discovery of mass engine failures. Your single experience does not reflect that of the masses mate. Well done on your reliable motoring, many many others haven’t been as fortunate.
@Philip Geleta *Please stop spreading lies and false urban myths... the Renesis was a weak unreliable engine that fails prematurely regardless of how well they are care for... shame on you!*
@Philip Geleta *Thanks to the Renesis engine failure recall Mazda opened the new remanufacturing and technical center on Ruffin Mill Road in Chesterfield VA. in May 2008 to rebuild rotary-powered engines for its RX-8 sports car. The plant produced more than 5,000 remanufactured Renesis warranty engines per year. Of course that does not include engines supplied from outside contractors and new replacement engines shipped from Japan or the thousands of engines that were replaced on the aftermarket not covered under warranty... Considering that by 2008 Mazda was only selling just over 3,000 RX-8s that the failure rate must have exceeded 50% under 100,000 miles.*
Finally, this must be the only comparison video on YT.
@carthrottle
One mistake that people make is claiming that these things rev, or that they are a high RPM engine. Technically they are a low RPM engine. The output shaft is three times the piston speed. The piston speed is slow it's, 300 RPMs at idle and close to 3000 at full throttle. This is one of the reasons these engines would be far better as diesels. If you increased the diameter of the engine by 50% or more, it might be possible to retract the apex seals, and you wouldn't need to inject oil as the diesel fuel would lubricate plenty, just inject a little into the intake side and the rest during combustion. Torque would be awesome, it would rev well with a very long torque curve. Fuel economy should be good as well as diesels like a slow burn and so do rotory's.
@mrmped *Complete and utter NONSENSE! There have been many failed attempts to build a Diesel Cycle Wankel... this has proven impossible due to an inherent flaw in the Wankel's fundamental geometry and due to its notoriously weak sealing system. The Wankel KKM CANNOT support adequate static compression ratios needed for reliable compression ignition.... apex seals have proven unable to handle high IMEPs.*
*Bullshit! Low Sulfur Diesel #2 fuel only has a lubricity of **_600 μm_** not any better than gasoline.*
@mrmped *WRONG! If you increase the diameter of the housings 50%? You would increase the linear speed of the apex seals 50% this increases wear, damage and leakage. Dumb idea...*
*You certainly are not an engineer... torque is directly related to STROKE and BMEP.. The Wankel KKM is inherently limited in its geometry envelope... the Mazda 13B for example a crankshaft throw of just 15mm that produces a stroke of just 30mm. The Wankels poor combustion chamber designs severely limits practical BMEP.*
Increasing the diameter increases the stroke. Diesel versions were built back in the 70s and early 80s, that were installed in fishing boats. I believe the redline was about 5000 rpms. NASA was working on a version that had apex seals retract at higher RPMs and it worked due to high boost pressures. How many rotory's have you built, ported, raced, etc? How many port designs have you done? You are really good at attacking people's posts instead of sharing info, and opinions, which makes you an asshole, live with it. I worked with rotory's at an engine development shop from 1975-1986, building well over three hundred engines. I understand the problems and design flaws. (Last post)
@mrmped1 *Please stop pretending to be an expert on this topic... you are clearly doing nothing but speculating delusionally.*
@mrmped1 *Increasing the diameter reduces the effective operating rpm and increases seal wear. It increases the stroke... But not the ratio of effective piston area-to-stroke... thus no increase in mechanical advantage or torque output per liter.*
I'm definitely doing to do an engine swap to my rx8 when i need a rebuild.
Can you swap the housings like have a renisis with a rx7 housing?
Too bad. Doritos got stale I guess.
*They leave a bad taste in peoples mouth...*
I'm really curious about the renesis plate mated with earlier rx7 housing
Gde Satrigraha the 1985 rx7 housings are plug n play got the brap and made my rotors 2mm deeper to fit fd’s apex seals problem solved and 240hp aspirated
I feel sorry for Alex from carthrottle
The reason he got one is because they're so cheap because no one wants them. They're popular as first cars here in Australia because of this reason and because of the lower power output so are legal for young drivers.
Michael Clark here in the uk the insurance is too expensive for a first car
@Micheal Clark *From what I have seen, there are very few if any real performance cars available Australia... but a lot of people trying to tune cheap, low-end, disposable cars like Mazdas and Nissans.*
lots of blown/worn out RX8's in the UK, some as little as £500..
BARRA SWAP IT!!!! :P
Pretty... pretty...pretty bad explanation of exhaust port area requirements.... What you said about exhaust gasses taking up more volume etc and thus needing a bigger exhaust port than intake is exactly what piston engine designers of the pre 1930s thought, hence flathead engines had larger exhaust valves and ports than the intake.... and since the 40s we've swapped it around. The reason being you can pump gasses out far more efficiently under pressure than by drawing it in under vacuum.... while I agree the renesis is an awful rotary do not confuse people about exhaust cross sectional area requirements.
Great video chaps thanks my mates got a rx8 that don't start half the time ... ill now tell him it's a bag of kack lol
Neat. You guys did a great job explaining the ins and outs of the 13b-MSP. Neat little engine, but you're right, it's terrible in comparison with some of the other rotaries.
rx8 needs a barra lol
think ive seen a yellow one getting built
@@SomervilleMetalWorks would be a good motor for the rx8 lighter then a ls and bang for buck get good hp out of them
I like the way you think!
@@DIGPLatinodriftking1 you can find a very cheap rx8 good barra motor pretty cheap at the moment i think good 10k project do high 10s all day and drive home lol
Hey mate not being a fuckwit ls fan but i think you need to google the weight of an LS3/LS2/L98 engine they all weigh less than the barra due to the alloy block. And theres been a barra rx8 done and they had to have it sticking a bit out the bonnet due to the large height of the barra. An LS is quite smaller in length and height than a barra and not too much wider.
i dont know what he has against mx5's and FC's. they both handle very good. and yeah they do need more power to be serious fun but thats often the case with lots of cars.
Mx5 handles well. Short wheelbase. FC is a definite step down, but man they look cool. They're good for what they are but the FD was a much more expensive and newer car and the handling reflects that. Then again on the street I actually think FC interiors are very nice places to be.
These guys call themselves FullBoost, and that really says it. They're into big turbos and big power. To put it into old-school Japanese terms, these are Wangan racers trying to understand why a Touge car doesn't make 800whp. The FC and RX-8 are monster Touge cars. The FD is a monster in both domains, which is why it's the Ultimate Chad and costs Ultimate Chad money.
Mazda Zoom Zoom Zoom.
Brap brap brap ! Brahhahahhahahap
*Hey have you been down to the Madza dealer to check-out the new 2019 RX???? **_Lol!!!_*
Sadly the lack of power is it’s dilemma.
So getting rew and 8374 instead. 😋
Renesis = shit
Shitesis
Complete bullshit. Only time a rotary is unreliable is wen the owner has no clue how to treat it. Nobody sais it better than Jason Statham "You take care of the car, it will take care of you"
*Please spare us the lame excuse and old wives tales... everyone knows these engines are weak and unreliable regardless of how they are driven or maintained.*
Bullshit. Ive seen u before u literally spend all of ur time going onto RX-8 Videos to make fun of them. U live a sad life.
*Just the facts here kid... The NHTSA recall investigation of premature Renesis failures found NO LINK between driver abuse or neglect and the extremely high number of premature engine failures, Mazda did not challenge these findings and voluntarily recalled and reimbursed owners.*
*Stop spreading lies and false urban myths about these horribly weak and unreliable engines.*
Agreed. According to the crap being posted regularly here, my perfectly running ‘05 that I bought new can’t possibly exist. (I think I know how Preston Tucker must’ve felt when he was accused of fraud and having no intention of actually building a car - all while over 40 shiny new Tucker Torpedos were parked right outside the courtroom.) Don’t believe everything you read online - especially what you read about the Mazda RX-8. Truly, a remarkable automobile. In fact, finest I’ve ever owned.
@Richard *And its very obvious its the only car you ever owned... Lol!*
LS wins again
Time to Squanch nope
@Michael Lehner,my FD will smoke any stock V8 trash
Great video. In my area I've seen half a dozen RX-8's for around 4k US dollars. What would the total build cost be if I threw out the renesis from day 1 and sourced a 13B REW using the rx8 transmission?
A lot more than you'd think. Engine alone is ~$3k most times. Then you need all the attatchments, transmission, and other stuffs.
@@vivigarr I thought it bolted up to the rx8 transmission?
nice vid boys , thanks to u guys i got rid of the squeal of my DBA t3 4000's . They were so bad i nearly gave up. After watching there's a right and left side (even thou they have no left and right orientation) i decided to swap left to right disc and its cured the squeal . At high speeds Ive never felt such braking force on these brembo's. Thanks again for the idea..
Imagine being such a shit driver you need a mountain of HP to have fun in the best mazda chassis ever produced. Renesis is flawed (it's a rotary), but it does what it does beautifully.
That is why the MX5 is the best-selling Mazda sports car ans the best-selling 2-seat convertible sports car in history.
Breaking down is exactly what the Renesis does best... that's why Mazda discontinued these horrible POS engines.
Wow no wonder why they got so much dislikes.
it's a high maintenance car. Reliability isn't a problem when you actually care for this car. I know people who have gotten 150000 + miles without rebuild / significant loss of compression and for the people who ls swap this car they change the centre of gravity which results in +3.5 ~ degrees of body roll. The engine's primary flaw is the lack of lubrication (2 stroke oil .. ) so what do you expect when you deprive the engine of oil, like any car, without oil it will fail.
It's well known that all Wankel engines are inherently unreliable to comparable reciprocating engines.
This why the Wankel is obsolete in the manufacturing industry.
All Wankel engines are 4-stroke, pouring 2-stroke oil in The gas tank is monumentally stupid and will damage your engine.
I dont know why it cost you so much in Australia to rebuild these engines , I had mine done in the uk with a street port and rr d585 ignition coil kit for £2,989 . , the cost of the rebuild was £ 1,958
*Wow! That's more than the car is worth!*
cheap car reasonably cheap for a engine rebuild , unlike BMW VANOS PROBLEMS
*You need to work on your math skills... Lol!!!*
seems to me you should brush up on your discussion skills about the car without making it personnal ...Lol!!!
*Buying an RX-8 is the result of just two things, either you are too poor to buy a decent performance car? Or you are just stupid and bad with money.... no one with half a brain would spend more on repairs than the car is worth, and not do anything to address the fatal flaw in the car... by not removing the unreliable Wankel engine.*
This “flaw” in the exhaust system is actually a benefit if you switch to gsl se housings you can have 6 ports
Hey knob heads, the side exhaust ports have more total surface area than the traditional port.
*Yeah, but if you were an engineer or a tuning expert you would know that a straight exhaust port offers less resistance to flow even if it has a smaller area...*
Yes its pretty obvious hey 👍
What is your opinion on the series 2 engines? Torque is still disappointing but they addressed some of the lubrication issues.
*But the series 2 engines did not address the premature failure issues.*
Ford 3.7 v6 swap. 310hp from a Mustang or an F150. Since Mazda was in bed with Ford. You still keep it in the family 🤣.
Ford dropped Mazda like a bad habit in 2009 after dismal RX8 sales put Mazda in a financial crisis.
The rx8 was the only (if I remember right) mazda at this time which did not have the ford platform
@@sneedlewoods829 The Rx8 & Mx-5 Nc share the same platform. Ford insisted on this to cut cost.
Rx8 owner since 2010. I hate the low tq but its a car that looks like no other and makes me smile everytime I walk up to her. I really had no problems other than the shitty coils, oil cooler hoses, and the transmission. I do believe these harvard engineers could of done a totally better job at the engine but almost every engine has major flaws
The Renesis was the worst engine of the 21st century... mediocre performance with horrible reliability.
The rx8 killed the rotary. Who would of thought Mazda would have made the rotary worse. Disappointed 👎I bought a rx8 for 2,000 salvage title flood car and currently putting a Cosmo in it. Just wish I could use my air conditioning electric power steering etc....
*LS or Barra swap it!*
even with its few fauls with a reliable owner these thing go over 150.000km , so that is very good for semi sport street car that makes over 200hp on a 1.3
but if you want to go wilder and pull more than 50 hp from it expect it to blow by 50000km ...just like a Subaru
*RENESIS* name meant to signify the rebirth of the rotary.
RE -Rotary Engine
REGENESIS
The Wankel engine died in 2012.... 1964-2012 R.I.P.