I remember in one of the two episodes that the great machine was built for another time, not for the shadow war. I wish that story would have continued and the great machine's ultimate purpose be seen
one of the better season 1 episode (s). in one way it felt like a long running 80's show that brought in a best friend from the stars youth. you never heard of them before. they were such great friends they never appeared again. a show's strength this showed how strong Earthforce was or thought it to be.
And it was original intended to be a 1 part episode. WB didnt pay for the 2nd one as promised so they cut cost in the remaining episdes. And they still didnt have a second season confirmed which only came after the last episode.
Two Earthforce commanding officers pointing their guns at each other and challenging each other are signs of the future Earth Alliance civil war. Then the aliens show up to crash the party. I would try to arrest the planet if I was security chief.
@@JK-Visions Earthforce officers like Commander Sinclair would have rebelled against President Clark while officers like Captain Pierce would probably have obeyed orders and attack General Haig, Captain Sheridan, and other rebel officers?
@@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164 absolutely, but do not forget Sheridan had the minbari on his side. So a great force like earhforce needs an equal or bigger opposite force or a rebellion will fail.
@@JK-Visions Rebellions and civil wars always have outside powers meddling for a side, to safe guard their own interests. The others get nervous and fearful about what would happen after the Civil War.
@@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164 It likely Pierce orders came from Clark and his allies. They were overridden by the President. So yes this was the first sign of a power play by Clark and his allies.
To me Epsilon 3 seemed to exist to be used a giant plot armor for the rest of the series. After the battle earth force seems to completely "forget" about its existence. During the Earth Civil war when Earth sends ships to take Babylon 5, were they not aware of the existence of the possibility of giant death beam coming from Epsilon 3? Were the memories of the crew of the Cruiser and all those on Babylon 5 erased except for the important heros of the story? The existence of a technology of Epsilon 3 would be hard to keep secret, and would not Earth under Clark want to exploit the technologies there, much in the same way he used Shadow technology. Psi corps was totally unaware of its existence? No other race shows up to claim Epsilon 3 or are even curious about it, not even the Shadows? While Epsilon 3 is mentioned and used at times in the series it seems to be used as a giant Mcguffin to move the plot along in a very convenient way. It provides the evidence of Clarks assassination of Santiago, while there is some other evidence from an important witness it's never used just the recording from Epsilon 3, that's really lazy writing from a really great writer, avoiding a detective plot uncovering it, and all the while you have Garabaldi the super detective on the station almost unused, though almost killed because of the plot. It also conveniently allows information on the Shadows and the first ones to be gathered, and for some minor communication in some episodes. But that's it. All that work up, two episodes spent on something just shy of the first ones and it just sits there like a paperweight, a planet sized one. Also, they never go into why Babylon 5 was built there. Of all the places in the Universe to build Babylon 5, why exactly there? I always believed that it had to do with being in an optimal place for diplomacy and trade. But surly the Vorlons were aware of it and most likely influenced the Minbari to choose the location, though they never told the Minbari what Epsilon 3 was. Delen the leader of the Gray Council of the Minbari had no knowledge of it. Or was it Sinclair who put the ideal in the heads of the Minbari after he went back 1,000 years and became Valien, and if so why did the Gray Council not know of its existence then? A lot is made of the fact that Valien influenced the events that take place in Babylon 5, and that after Sinclair goes back in time, it is not know what is to follow from that time on. So Sinclair had this information as Valien but never passed it on? while he is responsible for creating the rangers and guiding the Minbari for their next life or death conflict with the Shadows. To me Epsilon 3 just stands out as a giant sore thumb. Used when it is convenient to use, and forgotten when its more interesting for the plot to forget it exists. For instance, was not Drall keeping tabs on what was going on on Babylon 5, so don't you think Drall would help find Delen when she is kidnapped, or help stop an assassination plot on Sheridan, or help find a bomb put on the reactor of Babylon 5 to destroy it, or relay to the heros of the story all kinds of information on the plots of enemies, of the movement of the Shadows, of all kinds of really useful information during the Civil War, heck they got a private and I'm sure encrypted communication by Clark out of the past, but nothing now in the present, yet the machine at Epsilon 3 can be used to travel the entire Universe and see all kinds of things, just not most of the things going on in the story it seems. Like I said its plot armor and its also a weight around the neck of the story more conveniently ignored by the writers, or of hand mentioned to try to placate any thought of its use for those who watch the series and are say "What about Epsilon 3, use the darn thing", but nope.
What a long reply! Thanks :) I think it couldn't be used because draal is against war. He only uses force to protect the planet. I also wondered why he didn't even help them against the shadows as a certain listening post or so but perhaps that would have been too easy. JMS originally wanted to make this 1 episode but Warner liked the story and wanted him to make it a 2 parter. Unfortunately they didn't receive the budget for the second part and so they had to trim down on later episode. Though I wouldn't now which ones. They concealed it well.
Sheridan in one episode talks about it being their "ace in the hole" and not wanting to break the secret until they have to. Then when the Shadows surround the station and Ivanova says to try to contact Draal, they can't get through. So plot convenience, yes, but at least a lampshaded one.
@@m_hub3957 I remember that one, I allude to it above in more of a summary sort of way. But that is one of the few times it is used, there are a few other times as well like when they use its holographic system to boadcast Sheridan throughout the Babylon 5 to address the inhabitants of the station as he breaks away from Earth. But considering is power and sheer potential it is barely used.
In the later parts of the series the capabilities of the planet are not used to keep it secret and in reserve. Too bad it was not used in the end. Perhaps something for the reboot..?
It always bugged me how Earth Alliance "heavy cruises" were these little POS ship meanwhile the Destroyers were these monsters that wrecked others. Cruisers are BIGGER than Destroyers.
Well the categorie Destroyer has changed even since WW2 from I think the smallest blue water vessel to a heavy multipurpose warship. In the series the Omega destroyer is based on the hulllayout of the Nova dreadnought. Maybe by recategorizing they want to reflect the multipurpose aspect of the Omega where the Nova was fully specialized in front line brawling.
@@TheDude50447 Actually, there is some interesting lore in the Omega's redesignation. The _Hyperion_ class was designated as a Heavy Cruiser, but after the Earth-Minbari War, they did a _lot_ of the heavy lifting before the Omegas started rolling out. The Omegas were going to be the new Heavy Cruiser but that was met with _extremely stiff_ resistance... so the Senate decided to use a designation that wasn't in use (destroyer) and used that instead.
The Hyperion-class heavy cruiser and Nova-class dreadnought were built before the Minbari war, while the Omega-class destroyer was started during the war. Perhaps Earthforce thought they'd need much bigger ships in their fleet to fight the Minbari, so they went for bigger designs in each type. The destroyers were only the first to be built, I'd guess if it weren't for the Shadow War, the Civil War, and the formation of the Interstellar Alliance, Earthforce would keep building bigger ships, and after the Warlock-class destroyer they'd go for newer, bigger versions of cruisers. You can read about a similar scaling up in the Honor Harrington series of books - in the later books new classes of destroyers are larger than the old light cruisers, and due to technological improvements they can fight (and defeat) even battlecruisers of older classes with ease.
@@TheTrueAdept I don't remember that being described in the show. Is there an episode you can point me towards please or was it another source that explains this?
@@jamesdietz29 I cannot imagine any reboot being the least bit as good let alone better than the original for content. They might have some good actors in place but let’s be real, they will never replace the actors that came before them. Andrea Kustlaus Will never be replaced, Peter Jurasik, what is the show. Well I can go on but you get the idea.
I first saw John Schuck as Draal in a later-season episode, so I much prefer him to Louis Turenne's performance here. I think they said Turenne went on to play "Brother Theo" in later episodes.
i am not sure we will ever know for sure. But if Lorien was the first of the first ones and the machines of epsilon 3 could scan th edges of the universe they probably know eachother.
1:46 Those two techs in the background are morning radio DJs Paul & Al, who have been at 94 WHJY in Providence for ages. Not sure how they got the chance to be extras on the show, but they apparently "blew their lines" in this scene. As they walked off scene one of them bumped into a light stand, ruining the shot and forcing another take.
I think the writers soon after this episode was made found that they wrote themselves into a corner. The machine in Epsilon 3 would had given the good guys too much of an advantage in the Shadow Wars and they needed to make the Shadows the scary boogie men of the galaxy to add to the suspense and heroism of the good guys, Epsilon 3 was simply erased from the series as if this episode never happened. In the last episode of B5 rather than using B5 as a research station to study Epsilon 3. they shut it down and initiated self-destruct, no one even mentioned the machine down on the planet.
I am not sure. I can't remember it's mentioned in the books either but i am only at book 2 of 9 lol. The Bester books and books with Vir and the Shadows didn't mention the planet.
They bring it up at one point when Sheridan is on Zhadum and B5 is surrounded by Shadow vessels, Ivanova tries to tell them to contact Epsilon 3 and the tech replies they can't get through....kinda a handwave but still.
@@Thurgosh_OG Well the "big-wigs" didn't think it would fly, JMS pretty much told the big wigs, "watch me.." before "...hold my Zima" was a phrase.. seeing Zima served in Babylon 5 was a goot!😁👍
Why did she say it was big ? That ship is smaller than the other EA battle ships .. That's a Hyperion class heavy cruiser now if it were an Omega class destroyer that would be called big
The Hyperion was actually a decent sized warship. The only issue with her was the lack of gravity and the targeting systems not being that great when compared to the ECM of the Minbari. The warships before the Omega and Warlock are as such: Nova Class Dreadnought: Heavy brawler with 36 star furries. Hyperion: faster, less armored and armed but more agile warship. Olympus class Corvette: was later relegated to small backwater world's as an anti pirate ship. The Omega replaced the Hyperion as the standard warship, even going as far as being the ship you sent from one end of the galaxy to the other due it's gravity. This basically leads down to: Star fury: fighter Olympus class: small escort/anti pirate Hyperion: Heavy escort Omega: Cruiser-Battle cruiser esque warship Nova: Dreadnought Warlock: new battleship. Basically takes the place of the Nova and pushed the Nova into being the ship you sent when you needed to kill something that was a brick
What the hell is this ? 😮👇 You cut this apart, so it's barely recognizable ! 👈🤪 If you were trying to make nonsense, well then, congratulations ! you did it ! ☝️😉👍
Such a great cast and so many are gone. Sleep well, old friends.
Strange how Deleen looked better bald than with hair later on? Such a amazing stunning talented woman R.I.P Mira Furlan.
I respectfully disagree with your assesment .😁
I remember in one of the two episodes that the great machine was built for another time, not for the shadow war. I wish that story would have continued and the great machine's ultimate purpose be seen
Yes that would have been nice.
Agreed. I love Babylon 5
"Mr. Garibaldi, it's big!"
(great quotes taken out of context)
I think they had a Big laugh about it when filming.
“you can never get a straight answer around here”?
that’s the one time she gave the straight answer!
Great. Now I have to binge the whole series again.
one of the better season 1 episode (s). in one way it felt like a long running 80's show that brought in a best friend from the stars youth. you never heard of them before. they were such great friends they never appeared again. a show's strength this showed how strong Earthforce was or thought it to be.
And it was original intended to be a 1 part episode. WB didnt pay for the 2nd one as promised so they cut cost in the remaining episdes. And they still didnt have a second season confirmed which only came after the last episode.
Ivanova reads Private Baldrick's war poetry.
Yes, but she is almost certainly a better cook.
Two Earthforce commanding officers pointing their guns at each other and challenging each other are signs of the future Earth Alliance civil war. Then the aliens show up to crash the party. I would try to arrest the planet if I was security chief.
i thought this was intense. But Sinclair was right. Nothing to loose anyway.
@@JK-Visions Earthforce officers like Commander Sinclair would have rebelled against President Clark while officers like Captain Pierce would probably have obeyed orders and attack General Haig, Captain Sheridan, and other rebel officers?
@@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164 absolutely, but do not forget Sheridan had the minbari on his side. So a great force like earhforce needs an equal or bigger opposite force or a rebellion will fail.
@@JK-Visions Rebellions and civil wars always have outside powers meddling for a side, to safe guard their own interests. The others get nervous and fearful about what would happen after the Civil War.
@@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164 It likely Pierce orders came from Clark and his allies. They were overridden by the President. So yes this was the first sign of a power play by Clark and his allies.
To me Epsilon 3 seemed to exist to be used a giant plot armor for the rest of the series. After the battle earth force seems to completely "forget" about its existence. During the Earth Civil war when Earth sends ships to take Babylon 5, were they not aware of the existence of the possibility of giant death beam coming from Epsilon 3? Were the memories of the crew of the Cruiser and all those on Babylon 5 erased except for the important heros of the story? The existence of a technology of Epsilon 3 would be hard to keep secret, and would not Earth under Clark want to exploit the technologies there, much in the same way he used Shadow technology. Psi corps was totally unaware of its existence? No other race shows up to claim Epsilon 3 or are even curious about it, not even the Shadows?
While Epsilon 3 is mentioned and used at times in the series it seems to be used as a giant Mcguffin to move the plot along in a very convenient way. It provides the evidence of Clarks assassination of Santiago, while there is some other evidence from an important witness it's never used just the recording from Epsilon 3, that's really lazy writing from a really great writer, avoiding a detective plot uncovering it, and all the while you have Garabaldi the super detective on the station almost unused, though almost killed because of the plot. It also conveniently allows information on the Shadows and the first ones to be gathered, and for some minor communication in some episodes. But that's it. All that work up, two episodes spent on something just shy of the first ones and it just sits there like a paperweight, a planet sized one.
Also, they never go into why Babylon 5 was built there. Of all the places in the Universe to build Babylon 5, why exactly there? I always believed that it had to do with being in an optimal place for diplomacy and trade. But surly the Vorlons were aware of it and most likely influenced the Minbari to choose the location, though they never told the Minbari what Epsilon 3 was. Delen the leader of the Gray Council of the Minbari had no knowledge of it. Or was it Sinclair who put the ideal in the heads of the Minbari after he went back 1,000 years and became Valien, and if so why did the Gray Council not know of its existence then? A lot is made of the fact that Valien influenced the events that take place in Babylon 5, and that after Sinclair goes back in time, it is not know what is to follow from that time on. So Sinclair had this information as Valien but never passed it on? while he is responsible for creating the rangers and guiding the Minbari for their next life or death conflict with the Shadows.
To me Epsilon 3 just stands out as a giant sore thumb. Used when it is convenient to use, and forgotten when its more interesting for the plot to forget it exists. For instance, was not Drall keeping tabs on what was going on on Babylon 5, so don't you think Drall would help find Delen when she is kidnapped, or help stop an assassination plot on Sheridan, or help find a bomb put on the reactor of Babylon 5 to destroy it, or relay to the heros of the story all kinds of information on the plots of enemies, of the movement of the Shadows, of all kinds of really useful information during the Civil War, heck they got a private and I'm sure encrypted communication by Clark out of the past, but nothing now in the present, yet the machine at Epsilon 3 can be used to travel the entire Universe and see all kinds of things, just not most of the things going on in the story it seems. Like I said its plot armor and its also a weight around the neck of the story more conveniently ignored by the writers, or of hand mentioned to try to placate any thought of its use for those who watch the series and are say "What about Epsilon 3, use the darn thing", but nope.
What a long reply! Thanks :)
I think it couldn't be used because draal is against war. He only uses force to protect the planet. I also wondered why he didn't even help them against the shadows as a certain listening post or so but perhaps that would have been too easy.
JMS originally wanted to make this 1 episode but Warner liked the story and wanted him to make it a 2 parter. Unfortunately they didn't receive the budget for the second part and so they had to trim down on later episode. Though I wouldn't now which ones. They concealed it well.
Sheridan in one episode talks about it being their "ace in the hole" and not wanting to break the secret until they have to. Then when the Shadows surround the station and Ivanova says to try to contact Draal, they can't get through. So plot convenience, yes, but at least a lampshaded one.
Deus ex machina become problematic unless destroyed which proves that they were not deus ex machina.
@@JK-Visions there is an episode where Ivanova is linked to the machine, looking for more Old Ones
@@m_hub3957 I remember that one, I allude to it above in more of a summary sort of way. But that is one of the few times it is used, there are a few other times as well like when they use its holographic system to boadcast Sheridan throughout the Babylon 5 to address the inhabitants of the station as he breaks away from Earth. But considering is power and sheer potential it is barely used.
I really hope the reboot picks an actress who does Ivanova justice. There will never be another Claudia Christian but I hope we can get close.
Trust Ivanova; Trust yourself. Everyone else: Shoot them!
In the later parts of the series the capabilities of the planet are not used to keep it secret and in reserve. Too bad it was not used in the end. Perhaps something for the reboot..?
I agree.
It always bugged me how Earth Alliance "heavy cruises" were these little POS ship meanwhile the Destroyers were these monsters that wrecked others.
Cruisers are BIGGER than Destroyers.
Well the categorie Destroyer has changed even since WW2 from I think the smallest blue water vessel to a heavy multipurpose warship. In the series the Omega destroyer is based on the hulllayout of the Nova dreadnought. Maybe by recategorizing they want to reflect the multipurpose aspect of the Omega where the Nova was fully specialized in front line brawling.
@@TheDude50447 One thing is sure;) They mess up ship's classes;)
@@TheDude50447 Actually, there is some interesting lore in the Omega's redesignation. The _Hyperion_ class was designated as a Heavy Cruiser, but after the Earth-Minbari War, they did a _lot_ of the heavy lifting before the Omegas started rolling out. The Omegas were going to be the new Heavy Cruiser but that was met with _extremely stiff_ resistance... so the Senate decided to use a designation that wasn't in use (destroyer) and used that instead.
The Hyperion-class heavy cruiser and Nova-class dreadnought were built before the Minbari war, while the Omega-class destroyer was started during the war. Perhaps Earthforce thought they'd need much bigger ships in their fleet to fight the Minbari, so they went for bigger designs in each type. The destroyers were only the first to be built, I'd guess if it weren't for the Shadow War, the Civil War, and the formation of the Interstellar Alliance, Earthforce would keep building bigger ships, and after the Warlock-class destroyer they'd go for newer, bigger versions of cruisers.
You can read about a similar scaling up in the Honor Harrington series of books - in the later books new classes of destroyers are larger than the old light cruisers, and due to technological improvements they can fight (and defeat) even battlecruisers of older classes with ease.
@@TheTrueAdept I don't remember that being described in the show. Is there an episode you can point me towards please or was it another source that explains this?
Why has Babylon 5, the original series, not released a HD version of the series because I guarantee you I would buy it. It has to exist
If I remember correctly the original tapes were destroyed in a fire.
You don’t truly believe there was only one copy do you
@@dwgray9000 It's what they ought to do instead of the reboot. Reissue the series, but with new cgi.
Watch and see if there isn't suddenly a Blu-ray release just prior to or just after the premier of the upcoming reboot.
@@jamesdietz29 I cannot imagine any reboot being the least bit as good let alone better than the original for content.
They might have some good actors in place but let’s be real, they will never replace the actors that came before them.
Andrea Kustlaus Will never be replaced, Peter Jurasik, what is the show. Well I can go on but you get the idea.
Master of Orion geek be like: just a single ground battery! Not a big deal!
I first saw John Schuck as Draal in a later-season episode, so I much prefer him to Louis Turenne's performance here. I think they said Turenne went on to play "Brother Theo" in later episodes.
I wanted to know more about the race from epilsilon 3, where they first ones, did they know lorien
i am not sure we will ever know for sure. But if Lorien was the first of the first ones and the machines of epsilon 3 could scan th edges of the universe they probably know eachother.
She said "good bye" but not as speaking to a "reporter". It was IMHO with sorrow.
1:46 Those two techs in the background are morning radio DJs Paul & Al, who have been at 94 WHJY in Providence for ages. Not sure how they got the chance to be extras on the show, but they apparently "blew their lines" in this scene. As they walked off scene one of them bumped into a light stand, ruining the shot and forcing another take.
That's cool! Though here in the Netherland we have another DJ Paul Elstak;)
I don't remember this episode, once again. I might have to start with S1E1 again.
*I ❤️ BABYLON 5*
I think the writers soon after this episode was made found that they wrote themselves into a corner. The machine in Epsilon 3 would had given the good guys too much of an advantage in the Shadow Wars and they needed to make the Shadows the scary boogie men of the galaxy to add to the suspense and heroism of the good guys, Epsilon 3 was simply erased from the series as if this episode never happened. In the last episode of B5 rather than using B5 as a research station to study Epsilon 3. they shut it down and initiated self-destruct, no one even mentioned the machine down on the planet.
I am not sure. I can't remember it's mentioned in the books either but i am only at book 2 of 9 lol. The Bester books and books with Vir and the Shadows didn't mention the planet.
They bring it up at one point when Sheridan is on Zhadum and B5 is surrounded by Shadow vessels, Ivanova tries to tell them to contact Epsilon 3 and the tech replies they can't get through....kinda a handwave but still.
3-43 единственный раз за весь сериал,когда показана работа заградительного огня
For love.... for joy in that love.
Babylon 5 was the show that no one believed in @ first..it transcended doubt.. JMS is in my pantheon of greats..
Absolutely!
I hope his remake get upgraded to HBO Max from CW.
Not "no one". I was hooked from the pilot film "The Gathering" and even though several changes were brought in for the series it just got better.
@@Thurgosh_OG Well the "big-wigs" didn't think it would fly, JMS pretty much told the big wigs, "watch me.." before "...hold my Zima" was a phrase.. seeing Zima served in Babylon 5 was a goot!😁👍
"Mr. Garibaldi, it's BIG" uwu
Except for the caretaker this is right out of forbidden planet ..
That EA ship isn't that big .. It is smaller than other ships of the EA .. The destroyers are all much bigger
it’s big enough to beat the aliens but small enough to get beaten by the bigger destroyers in later seasons…
Why does TY keep serving me up Episode 2 of things before it shows me Ep. 1?!!?
I don't know. Probably a algorithm thing.
Tbe same reason you typed TY for RUclips?
Why did she say it was big ? That ship is smaller than the other EA battle ships .. That's a Hyperion class heavy cruiser now if it were an Omega class destroyer that would be called big
yeah my thought too haha.
The Hyperion was actually a decent sized warship. The only issue with her was the lack of gravity and the targeting systems not being that great when compared to the ECM of the Minbari.
The warships before the Omega and Warlock are as such:
Nova Class Dreadnought: Heavy brawler with 36 star furries.
Hyperion: faster, less armored and armed but more agile warship.
Olympus class Corvette: was later relegated to small backwater world's as an anti pirate ship.
The Omega replaced the Hyperion as the standard warship, even going as far as being the ship you sent from one end of the galaxy to the other due it's gravity. This basically leads down to:
Star fury: fighter
Olympus class: small escort/anti pirate
Hyperion: Heavy escort
Omega: Cruiser-Battle cruiser esque warship
Nova: Dreadnought
Warlock: new battleship. Basically takes the place of the Nova and pushed the Nova into being the ship you sent when you needed to kill something that was a brick
What the hell is this ? 😮👇
You cut this apart, so it's barely recognizable ! 👈🤪
If you were trying to make nonsense, well then, congratulations !
you did it ! ☝️😉👍
As long as it makes sense to me;) Warner doesn't allow to upload much more so you have to watch to original episode again. It's just a compilation.
Good luck
Strange this whole plot device was deaux ex machina personified. Not JMS'S finest hour.
Yeah. Better well stolen then bad written like they do nowadays:)
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Wtf 🤬
What is this ?
I have no clue;)