I love to take meta magic adept on high level casters because spells like foresight can have a 16 hour duration which means you can very easily rest trick it whilst playing an elf.
Absolutely love the abjurer! My personal favourite wizard and the PC I've been playing in my longest campaign. I think at high levels they really have enough to sit comfortably with the big boys like chronorgist and illusion. While the best things they can do are definitely better, abjuration is just so damn resilient and makes it so easy to cover defensive weaknesses, that an abjurer can just keep going and stay such a relevant annoyance on the battle field without any easy weaknesses to exploit.
this is so overkill i love it. i do have a nitpick though: shapechange only works on creatures with levels, so your steed can't benefit from it also, if you want to get ridiculous with true polymorph and setting-specific material, try making an inquisitor of the sword and casting magic jar
Was going to suggest taking 3 lvl of armorer artificer forst for high ac thanks to heavy armor and shield proficiency plus the succeed on concentration checks, but yeah, I guess you're covered there thanks to your shape change. Are you planing on giving a battle report of the oneshot? I'm always interested in hearing how well the characters actually work in play compared to the theory
Yes, and I hope to actually record the game, and then make a video for each battle, breaking it down and discussing the tactics employed vs. should haves.
This is very Impressive. I did reread through Shapechange; "retain benefit of any features" I just realized people can still cast spells in the new form. 1 Question: Where are you getting the creature to Planar Bind and True Polymorph? Or is that something one of your teammates is taking care of?
lol. nice to have adelina back and she's extremely feisty today with all those whispered side comments. haha. now on to some inputs. i'd say wizard is top 2-3 but no not #1. i'd agree with your colleagues that it's the clockwork sorc but only if the game is level 13 or below (if simulacrum isn't banned). with simulacrum available and 20 full levels accounted for, i'd posit the bard is #1 as they can just steal all the best wizard and other class spells with magical secrets while having a better chassis/easier to multiclass. speaking of factoring in full 20 levels, i'm disappointed you didn't dip 1-3 levels elsewhere as the wizard doesn't have anything impactful at 19-20. signature spells is solid but at that level you aren't really concerned with spells slots and i'd be ok to trade this in for something as impactful. there's so many useful route for a multiclass here: 1. level 2 stars druid dip to ensure you never fail a concen check and be the king of counterspells/telekinesis. access to guidance too! 2. level 2-3 sorc dip for metamagic and font of sorcery to cast spells better plus con save prof. 3. level 1-3 artificer dip for con save prof, guidance, armor and shields prof plus maybe infusions like mind sharpener and good use of your bonus action like from the artillerist. 4. fighter 2 for con save prof, armor and shield prof, a fighting style and action surge. 5. twilight cleric 1 for initiative bonus, guidance, armor and shield prof. 6. warlock 2-3 dip for access to armor of agathys, pact slots, eldritch mind, armor of shadows to recharge the ward and maybe pact of the talisman for better ability checks.
I sort of agreed but I also think full wizard was pretty smart too. He seems to be confident that everything will occur within 2 hours each day, in which case his concentration is very very safe (3x legendary resistance on top of rerolls and advantage) and any armour proficiencies are pointless because he’ll be in shape change. Loosing out on the 6th/7th level slot is a surprisingly big deal too. (Although none of this applies to the sim, I guess it can just run away to maintain concentration). Also 2 preps is pretty important, he utilises every one very well, but depending on the MC the lower level spells can offset this. Maybe higher level spells in his spellbook is also necessary idk about that one. Feat is also important but given that Eldritch adept and meta magic adept are on there, this can work of course. Anyways 1. Stars, conc not really needed, counterspell already stupid good (think he said 2.4% chance to fail a 9th level spell) love this one normally but idk about this context 2. I think I like this most. Extra reroll if going with divine soul too. Although only barely better at meta magic than the feat 3. Arti, most stuff covered from shapechange/ foresight can’t make use of the basic infusions like +1 armour because dragon, thp from artilerist is nice but high level enemy’s would melt through it like butter unfortunately 4. Fighter. Action surge is superrrr good, idk about 6th and 7th level slot good. Everything else is useless too, no fighting style is useful because no armour for defence and want to keep reaction free for barbs/counterspell/shield 5. Don’t actually get an initiative bonus because foresight already gives it 6. Warlock. Covers the feat and race (was kind of unclear if he went dwarf or aasimar lol, so maybe counts as +2 resistances?) pact slots is swapping high level slots for low level ones which is terrible but the other stuff is good. Overall I like just going Sorcerer 1 most and were it me I’d definitely go with one of these, mostly to be a bit extra. But I honestly think straight wizard is the smartest choice if not very very close. Personally I wouldn’t rely on being in shape change the whole time and go hex 2 or arti 1 or 2, but he seems confident
@@oliverneville5012 Excellent analysis that mostly mirrors my own. I considered different MC options, and I think a lot of them make a ton of sense on a PC played up from a lower level, but for the one-shot, they all seemed to offer only minor benefits in exchange for having to spread out my stats, and losing a 6th and 7th level Slot + 2 extra preps and 3rd Level Slots (which come back on a Short Rest) from Signature Spells. We're attacking a fixed position, essentially attempting to kill everyone inside. I feel like we can do that in 2 hours... Battle #1 -> Short Rest -> Battle #2 -> Catnap -> Battle #3 are all reasonably expected to occur within the 2h timeframe. For a One-Shot with 6x 20th Level PCs, I'd be shocked if we saw 4 total battles, just due to the time it would take to get through them. If we do, though, I think I can muddle through the 4th battle with just spell defenses (e.g. putting myself in a Forcecage and just casting through it, while depending on Spell Resistance, Lucky/Potion of Possibility, and my slew of pre-cast defenses to shut down Save spells coming my way).
@@oliverneville5012 i think losing out on the 6th/7th slot are only an issue if he dips into a non-full caster class. with that said, i dont think that's an issue as you said he's expecting everything to happen within 2 hours. he doesn't need spare spells slots. he needs ways to make those action perform better or more actions since he'll be shapechanged alot. 1. fair point on stars druid. at lower levels though this is an excellent multiclass for any wizard wanting to be great at counterspell/telekinesis. 2. i'd disagree with barely better at metamagic than the feat. the fact that he has font of sorcery means he can easily convert the lower level spell slots he's not using to sorc points so he can keep using metamagic with every spell cast like subtle/quicken spell. this imo is one of the best multiclasses given the context for him. divine soul is indeed one of the better picks for access to some cleric spells and favored of the gods. clockwork for restore balance, aid and armor of agathys is a solid choice too. 3. fair point on artificer but i wasn't thinking of the enhance defense infusions. i was thinking of having some extra level 1 concen spells running at the same time as his main concen spells such as spellwrought tattoo: bless, fog cloud, etc tattooed on his familiar. this pick was about more effective extra action economy. also envision that the simulacrum can do this too. imagine having 2 bless running for the party without using his action economy or his simulacrum. and here's the kicker, if the bag of holding combo is allowed at this table, then he can do this everyday solo as both him and the simulacrum can create the bag of holding and send their familiars to execute it. this is also one of the better picks imo. 4. action surge is definitely better than an extra 6th-7th level spell as he wont get alot of combats so more action economy is good, especially if you factor in that his simulacrum can action surge too. this opens up alot of same turn combos which could the combat much quicker or minimize negative stuff happening to the party. i wasn't thinking of the defense fighting style. i was going for superior technique-ambush. better initiative is always good for action economy. another one of the top picks. 5. fair point on twilight cleric. 6. fair point as well on warlock. yeah if it was me, i'd definitely multiclass.
@@TheRobversion1 Ah yeah you've pretty well convinced me that multiclassing is better. I definitely underrated how useful font of magic would be here. Sorc and fighter make it feel much more able to nova, which is probably the best tactic. I personally favour a slower more well rounded approach (not that sorcerer doesn't help there), but it would hard to argue that's better than opening with an encounter demolishing turn. Although can't be understated how impactful an extra forcecage would be from main and sim so fighter doesn't feel as good as sorcerer to me
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Yeah I think no more 4 encounters is more than reasonable, and it's not like if you were doing much more armour would be do or die anyways, especially if you keep your distance and maybe take one of those phantom steeds for yourself
Yeah, if you can (as per RAW) offload the penalties of Custom Wish to the Simulacrum, there's no reason not to get Resistance to everything. My FGS already shares my Shapechange (with the benefit of being able to change shape again, e.g. into Intellect Devourer to get precise location of all creatures within 300'), and the CR 2 limit makes the options relatively unappealing relative to the hassle (would have to Planar Bind them since they become uncontrolled once TP becomes permanent).
I am starting a campaign at level 3. 2 levels of abjuror wizard and, DM approved, 1 level of Int Warlock. It's gonna be goooood time. Suggestions on the build going forward?
I imagine you took hexblade for the armor and the spell armor of aegetyes? I think treantmonk build this ones as his abjurer build, but it was with a normal warlock. His take was to go into the middle and if they attack you they take damage and with a recast of armor of aegethyies you would reload your defense double.
Oh, it's INT +5, proficiency +6, and Luck Stone +1 for +12, with advantage from Foresight (and a reroll for Lucky). It works out to about a 2.7% chance to fail (my 4.5% figure cited in the video was without the Luck Stone).
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I think the math is 30%×30% is 9%. With luck that is 2.7%. Bless (without luck) drops it to about 3% (or 0.5% with luck). Meh. Anyways counterspell works pretty well for abjurers.
Note: I have an extra +1 to INT from being a "Workshop Hunter" that I forgot to mention!
I love to take meta magic adept on high level casters because spells like foresight can have a 16 hour duration which means you can very easily rest trick it whilst playing an elf.
Holy shit. Copy Pasting if we ever get a level 20 one-shot where we're allowed to go full-caster.
You've set the bar!
The dream team is back together! Fantastic!
Absolutely love the abjurer! My personal favourite wizard and the PC I've been playing in my longest campaign. I think at high levels they really have enough to sit comfortably with the big boys like chronorgist and illusion. While the best things they can do are definitely better, abjuration is just so damn resilient and makes it so easy to cover defensive weaknesses, that an abjurer can just keep going and stay such a relevant annoyance on the battle field without any easy weaknesses to exploit.
LMAO, "Alex?!"
"Do you think I'll be able to make it out of this one alive?"
No.
We all know that piloting of the build is more important than the build itself, so that's going to basically guarantee Bilbron's failure. :P
this is so overkill i love it. i do have a nitpick though: shapechange only works on creatures with levels, so your steed can't benefit from it
also, if you want to get ridiculous with true polymorph and setting-specific material, try making an inquisitor of the sword and casting magic jar
Was going to suggest taking 3 lvl of armorer artificer forst for high ac thanks to heavy armor and shield proficiency plus the succeed on concentration checks, but yeah, I guess you're covered there thanks to your shape change.
Are you planing on giving a battle report of the oneshot? I'm always interested in hearing how well the characters actually work in play compared to the theory
Yes, and I hope to actually record the game, and then make a video for each battle, breaking it down and discussing the tactics employed vs. should haves.
That would be very cool, play by play commentary hasn't really been done with dnd yet
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I am really looking forward to these videos
This is very Impressive.
I did reread through Shapechange; "retain benefit of any features" I just realized people can still cast spells in the new form.
1 Question: Where are you getting the creature to Planar Bind and True Polymorph? Or is that something one of your teammates is taking care of?
You can true polymorph a rock into a holyphant and then planar bind it, true polymorph isn’t limited to creatures
I just TPed an object into the Hollyphant while my Simulacrum used a 9th Level Planar Binding on it.
One type of character I played was a hill dwarf draconic sorcerer with the tough feat so he got an extra 4 hp per level.
In case your wondering that is a 20th level sorcerer with 222 HP.
lol. nice to have adelina back and she's extremely feisty today with all those whispered side comments. haha.
now on to some inputs.
i'd say wizard is top 2-3 but no not #1. i'd agree with your colleagues that it's the clockwork sorc but only if the game is level 13 or below (if simulacrum isn't banned). with simulacrum available and 20 full levels accounted for, i'd posit the bard is #1 as they can just steal all the best wizard and other class spells with magical secrets while having a better chassis/easier to multiclass.
speaking of factoring in full 20 levels, i'm disappointed you didn't dip 1-3 levels elsewhere as the wizard doesn't have anything impactful at 19-20. signature spells is solid but at that level you aren't really concerned with spells slots and i'd be ok to trade this in for something as impactful. there's so many useful route for a multiclass here:
1. level 2 stars druid dip to ensure you never fail a concen check and be the king of counterspells/telekinesis. access to guidance too!
2. level 2-3 sorc dip for metamagic and font of sorcery to cast spells better plus con save prof.
3. level 1-3 artificer dip for con save prof, guidance, armor and shields prof plus maybe infusions like mind sharpener and good use of your bonus action like from the artillerist.
4. fighter 2 for con save prof, armor and shield prof, a fighting style and action surge.
5. twilight cleric 1 for initiative bonus, guidance, armor and shield prof.
6. warlock 2-3 dip for access to armor of agathys, pact slots, eldritch mind, armor of shadows to recharge the ward and maybe pact of the talisman for better ability checks.
I sort of agreed but I also think full wizard was pretty smart too. He seems to be confident that everything will occur within 2 hours each day, in which case his concentration is very very safe (3x legendary resistance on top of rerolls and advantage) and any armour proficiencies are pointless because he’ll be in shape change. Loosing out on the 6th/7th level slot is a surprisingly big deal too. (Although none of this applies to the sim, I guess it can just run away to maintain concentration). Also 2 preps is pretty important, he utilises every one very well, but depending on the MC the lower level spells can offset this. Maybe higher level spells in his spellbook is also necessary idk about that one. Feat is also important but given that Eldritch adept and meta magic adept are on there, this can work of course.
Anyways
1. Stars, conc not really needed, counterspell already stupid good (think he said 2.4% chance to fail a 9th level spell) love this one normally but idk about this context
2. I think I like this most. Extra reroll if going with divine soul too. Although only barely better at meta magic than the feat
3. Arti, most stuff covered from shapechange/ foresight can’t make use of the basic infusions like +1 armour because dragon, thp from artilerist is nice but high level enemy’s would melt through it like butter unfortunately
4. Fighter. Action surge is superrrr good, idk about 6th and 7th level slot good. Everything else is useless too, no fighting style is useful because no armour for defence and want to keep reaction free for barbs/counterspell/shield
5. Don’t actually get an initiative bonus because foresight already gives it
6. Warlock. Covers the feat and race (was kind of unclear if he went dwarf or aasimar lol, so maybe counts as +2 resistances?) pact slots is swapping high level slots for low level ones which is terrible but the other stuff is good.
Overall I like just going Sorcerer 1 most and were it me I’d definitely go with one of these, mostly to be a bit extra. But I honestly think straight wizard is the smartest choice if not very very close. Personally I wouldn’t rely on being in shape change the whole time and go hex 2 or arti 1 or 2, but he seems confident
@@oliverneville5012 Excellent analysis that mostly mirrors my own. I considered different MC options, and I think a lot of them make a ton of sense on a PC played up from a lower level, but for the one-shot, they all seemed to offer only minor benefits in exchange for having to spread out my stats, and losing a 6th and 7th level Slot + 2 extra preps and 3rd Level Slots (which come back on a Short Rest) from Signature Spells.
We're attacking a fixed position, essentially attempting to kill everyone inside. I feel like we can do that in 2 hours... Battle #1 -> Short Rest -> Battle #2 -> Catnap -> Battle #3 are all reasonably expected to occur within the 2h timeframe. For a One-Shot with 6x 20th Level PCs, I'd be shocked if we saw 4 total battles, just due to the time it would take to get through them. If we do, though, I think I can muddle through the 4th battle with just spell defenses (e.g. putting myself in a Forcecage and just casting through it, while depending on Spell Resistance, Lucky/Potion of Possibility, and my slew of pre-cast defenses to shut down Save spells coming my way).
@@oliverneville5012 i think losing out on the 6th/7th slot are only an issue if he dips into a non-full caster class. with that said, i dont think that's an issue as you said he's expecting everything to happen within 2 hours. he doesn't need spare spells slots. he needs ways to make those action perform better or more actions since he'll be shapechanged alot.
1. fair point on stars druid. at lower levels though this is an excellent multiclass for any wizard wanting to be great at counterspell/telekinesis.
2. i'd disagree with barely better at metamagic than the feat. the fact that he has font of sorcery means he can easily convert the lower level spell slots he's not using to sorc points so he can keep using metamagic with every spell cast like subtle/quicken spell. this imo is one of the best multiclasses given the context for him. divine soul is indeed one of the better picks for access to some cleric spells and favored of the gods. clockwork for restore balance, aid and armor of agathys is a solid choice too.
3. fair point on artificer but i wasn't thinking of the enhance defense infusions. i was thinking of having some extra level 1 concen spells running at the same time as his main concen spells such as spellwrought tattoo: bless, fog cloud, etc tattooed on his familiar. this pick was about more effective extra action economy. also envision that the simulacrum can do this too. imagine having 2 bless running for the party without using his action economy or his simulacrum. and here's the kicker, if the bag of holding combo is allowed at this table, then he can do this everyday solo as both him and the simulacrum can create the bag of holding and send their familiars to execute it. this is also one of the better picks imo.
4. action surge is definitely better than an extra 6th-7th level spell as he wont get alot of combats so more action economy is good, especially if you factor in that his simulacrum can action surge too. this opens up alot of same turn combos which could the combat much quicker or minimize negative stuff happening to the party. i wasn't thinking of the defense fighting style. i was going for superior technique-ambush. better initiative is always good for action economy. another one of the top picks.
5. fair point on twilight cleric.
6. fair point as well on warlock.
yeah if it was me, i'd definitely multiclass.
@@TheRobversion1 Ah yeah you've pretty well convinced me that multiclassing is better. I definitely underrated how useful font of magic would be here. Sorc and fighter make it feel much more able to nova, which is probably the best tactic. I personally favour a slower more well rounded approach (not that sorcerer doesn't help there), but it would hard to argue that's better than opening with an encounter demolishing turn. Although can't be understated how impactful an extra forcecage would be from main and sim so fighter doesn't feel as good as sorcerer to me
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Yeah I think no more 4 encounters is more than reasonable, and it's not like if you were doing much more armour would be do or die anyways, especially if you keep your distance and maybe take one of those phantom steeds for yourself
You can just wish yourself more resistances. Also can true polymorph some of those find greater steeds.
Yeah, if you can (as per RAW) offload the penalties of Custom Wish to the Simulacrum, there's no reason not to get Resistance to everything.
My FGS already shares my Shapechange (with the benefit of being able to change shape again, e.g. into Intellect Devourer to get precise location of all creatures within 300'), and the CR 2 limit makes the options relatively unappealing relative to the hassle (would have to Planar Bind them since they become uncontrolled once TP becomes permanent).
I am starting a campaign at level 3. 2 levels of abjuror wizard and, DM approved, 1 level of Int Warlock. It's gonna be goooood time. Suggestions on the build going forward?
I imagine you took hexblade for the armor and the spell armor of aegetyes? I think treantmonk build this ones as his abjurer build, but it was with a normal warlock. His take was to go into the middle and if they attack you they take damage and with a recast of armor of aegethyies you would reload your defense double.
Yeah, I like the AoAgathys + Arcane Ward combo. Otherwise, I honestly didn't think too much about how to build/play the PC at lower levels...
How's are you getting such a high counterspell vs 9th level spells?
Why do you have 2 arcane grimoires? They don't stack do they?
I'm using Extended Spell for prepping stuff like Foresight. I have 2 Arcane Grimoir for myself and my simulacrum.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons shapechange is comparable to wish in my opinion but gets overlooked for wish and meteor swarm.
Oh, it's INT +5, proficiency +6, and Luck Stone +1 for +12, with advantage from Foresight (and a reroll for Lucky). It works out to about a 2.7% chance to fail (my 4.5% figure cited in the video was without the Luck Stone).
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons I think the math is 30%×30% is 9%. With luck that is 2.7%.
Bless (without luck) drops it to about 3% (or 0.5% with luck).
Meh. Anyways counterspell works pretty well for abjurers.
@@chrislieu6757 Fortunately Hollyphants have Bless and not much else to use their concentraton on!
Any chance to get a more level by level breakdown? This build looks crazy good but I'd have no clue how to progress optimally.
Was the session recorded? Is there a recap?
No level 20 Druid shaper? Smh
So, how did the battle go? What did ya fight?
He made another video about it. Cool watch.
how did u get gr restoration with wizard?
Strixhaven background.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons i see, ty
can we watch you play this? isit going to be on youtube
I'm going to record the battles, and do videos showing them with pauses for tactical breakdowns.