Making records with Eric Valentine - Drum Tuning and Dressing for Recording
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- In this episode I go through the process of putting heads on drums, getting them seated properly, tuning them, the best intervals to use for tuning to specific pitches, and dampening them to control excessive ringing. I then record the drums with 2 mics and do a quick mix so we can all hear the results!
LOVE that you are willing to share your considerable, hard-earned expertise with us, Eric. Thank you! Incredible sounding drums with just a 2-mic setup. Unbelievable.
Thank you for your expertise and time.
I am going to go back to school to learn the mixing part At 62.
Believe it. The more mics you add, the more sync-smear occurs with phase cancellation between the various mics. I've often argued with myself over this one, trying all kinds of things to improve imagining. Glynn John's 4 mic setup has worked a treat, for instance.
After watching this video at least 5 times over the years I decided I had to buy the same vintage M160. Knowing that Eric could use literally any mic in the world and he uses it not only for drums but it's also his choice for his wife's vocals on her albums kinda made it a no brainer to finally pick one up. I really look forward to putting i through it's paces in the coming years. Thanks Eric for everything you do!
'come off the top rope' is a genius analogy for a rim shot. Great video!
Maaaan, the freaking drum sound this dude drains of his room is unbelievable!!!
Thanks, Eric! This is like a full semester of recording school!
What a great lesson Eric. Thank you! Possibly the best tuning video I've seen yet.
18:20 Man, great point! You are a great combination of musicality, recording expertise… and, you’re a drummer! Your videos help me in so many ways. Thanks!
This is REALLY what we needed! Thank you so much Eric! Some actual interesting content coming from someone who actually made some amazing sounding records. In depth and not fast forwarded on parts that people take for granted.
just excellent! I've never seen a single video on RUclips that has covered tuning drums to a specific note with a proven method like this. Thanks so much for sharing it with the world! Also I gotta mention, that we've just recently (within the last three or four years) dropped our drum mics from between 12-20mics (depending on the kit) to just a Glynn Johns setup with stereo room mics and we've gotten the best drum sounds ever! So much less phase issues, and for the toms, I just copy them down to their own tracks and process them to suit the song...easy peasy! Totally glad I found your channel, and looks like I've got days and days of binge watching ahead of me hahahaha....(well....in between sessions that is lol) Thanks again!
love that you have a spreadsheet for your drum tuning. That's awesome lol
The videos on your channel are getting me through the lockdown blues Mr. V. This knowledge is going to be invaluable going forward. Thankyou SO much! Your results speak for themselves.
I’d be interested to hear more on different songs/albums with minimal drum mics vs a mic for every freakin thing on the kit. Love the interval tuning between top and bottom heads as well, I first started messing with that after discovering Kenny Sharretts drum Tuning videos. Really opened my eyes as a newer drummer 🥁
I used that same approach for years (regarding snare wire tension), and found that tightening them past the point where it begins to choke the tone, was ultimately stretching the snare wires out to the point of warping/bending them, rendering them useless. It sounds great under a mic, without a doubt, but it's worth knowing beforehand that there's a high likelihood that they'll be going in the trash following the recording.
Was wondering about this. How do we cope? A) buy relatively affordable snare wires and treat em like heads/strings, B) or are there "heavier duty" snare wires that hold up under higher tension? I'll start w/ A while I experiment.
@@uzefulidiot Puresound snare wires. I have 6 studio snares, 4 have Puresound. They`ve been on the drums for years.They seem much stronger than anything else I´ve used & I´ve been at this for 51 years. Best sound I`ve had too.
Man, this is unbelievably cool stuff! I’ve heard “your” sound in the processing you’ve done on other people’s drum tracks, but this feels like the most important element of that signature tone. Thanks so much for sharing all of this!!
Yes!!! I know what I’m doing tonight! :) Ever since you showed us how low frequencies add up...my kick & bass has sounded so much better.
Thanks for making these videos!
What video is that in? Mines always muddy :(
was this mixing drums?
Amazing stuff! Thank you for sharing this motherlode of knowledge!
For years I‘ve been asking drummers (even very good ones) about tuning, and most can‘t explain what they‘re doing, or why it works...great lateral thinking on tightening the wires *past* the point of choking...and the big takeaway of it all for me is that, when the basics are done right, you get great material to work with and the processing is *enhancing* it, not making it.
This should be required viewing for every recording drummer and anyone who still thinks „fix it in the mix“ is an option.
Finally got around to trying this stuff for real. The tissue for killing the „ping“ and the tuning method worked right away. Having heads that project an obvious note definitely helps, tired heads are a bit harder to tune precisely. Gotta get some sandbags now...
Oh boy, what a drum sound! And that's practically a 1 mic setup, since that U47 is basically just thickening up the kick drum. I've been fighting forever with lots of mic positions trying to get a better stereo spread from the cymbals in my small dry room and now looking at the results you've got with that minimalist approach just make me think I probably don't need it at all! Thank you sir!
Eric man, you deserve a big hug and a cold beer.! thanks for sharing this kind of thing. 🤓Cheers from Venezuela. 👍🏻
Love this. I'm also a drummer and producer. I've recently been experimenting with coated ambassadors on the bottoms as well. I find it controls the overtones a little better on recordings. I've never tried tuning to specific notes before though, loved hearing you go through the process. Thank you!!
great to see you back. Hope your staying safe. Thanks for these vids.
Thank you Eric. That's very cool and helpful.
Incredibly grateful for all of the stuff you have done on this channel! A gold mine of knowledge! Thank you Eric
IMO, The first Third Eye Blind album is a reference point for a perfect drum sound.
I could not agree more. That album has always been my reference point for drum sounds.
This is absolute gold!
Thank you Mr. Valentine.
This is actually extremely interesting because it's not your typical drum recording room.
Another trick I’ve heard people do similar to the sand bags on the floor tom thing, is just flipping one of the legs around so the hard metal end is on the ground. Apparently that helps shorten the length of the sustain as well. Never tried it myself but wanted to share.
Also, when tuning a snare bottom head, you can put a stick under the wires after loosening them a bit, across the rim of the drum to hold the wires up off the head while you tune.
Oooooo... good trick with the stick under the snares!! I'll be using that :)
"brighter but less harsh" - YES! I'm on that journey too. Gonna try that multi-band idea
Another good option is Tokyo Dawn Labs - Slick EQ which is a dynamic EQ (paid edition, this feature not available on the free version). Basically same thing, different approach. It has Attack/Release settings for the dynamic EQ, which ProQ3 lacks in its dynamic EQ.
Can you do an in depth episode on recording/mixing guitars? The guitars on Start Something are a staple for me on how modern rock guitars should sound. Incredible work man.
On criticism I have you are talking about mixing guitars, there is no such thing as mixing guitars you mix the whole song and every element in that song you don't mix guitar by soloing the guitar. No you mix it by having all the tracks there. Guitar recording may be interesting though tips and tricks for things you could try to make things fit in the mix better may be interesting too. (I realise this is probably what you are talking about)
I said "Recording/mixing".. I seen a few things he has mentioned but I know he can make a full episode about it. Shut up and take my money EV!
46:00 LOVE that snare tension trick. Never realized that before!!
Keep in mind this is likely particular to either a certain Throw Off, attachment method (string vs tape), snare bed design, and even the types of wires. I've never noticed this type of response due to overtightening beyond "choked" on any of my drums... 🤔
This really depends on the drum,I've used cheaper snares that have the same effect and then on more expensive snares it doesn't happen. But if you've got your snare wires set up properly there should definitely be a sweet spot within the tension range.
Oh my that sounds good! Interesting to hear that sub frequency delay effect happen with just physics rather than digital delay. I see a lot of drum tutorials tell you to align your room back to your close mics, whilst it sounds super tight, your technique just sounds so much more natural and open.
This is information gold! I've previously never heard of Eric Valentine, but a week ago a surf guitar video popped up in my RUclips feed and I watched, intrigued. When I heard the first strum on that Mosrite, I was blown away. Completely. Ever since, I have been watching a few videos featuring EV. The Sugar percussion one-mic drum video was also equally great. As amateur home recording/musician with two channel interface and a couple of condenser mics, these videos are a revelation. I'm already trying news things with guitar amps, with better results. Next I need to mess with drums. We just had a baby 7.5 months ago, so getting time to make noise is few and far between, but I love all this stuff anyway and if I can spend an hour here and there trying these techniques it's all good. Thank you, thank you!
37:00 Another great trick for shortening the decay time of floor toms is to take one of the floor tom legs and turn it upside down (so the metal part of the leg is resting on the floor).
Thank you so much Eric for your golden channel!!!!! And your time to share!!
Thank you, Mr. Valentine. These videos are immensely valuable to me, each time. Can´t wait for the next one.
holy s***, this is Cleary years and years of experimenting and knowledge, that you just tell us.. WOW!
thank you Eric as always..
That was banger of real shit that any drummer at any level got to take home something with them. Nice work Eric. Toured with you back in 1991. Mick A.B.
Man, this is like a GOLD MINE of lifehacks and secrets. For example, the snare tension gating effect. I'm so glad this popped out in my recommendations)))
Thank you, Eric! \m/
Allo Eric, this truck is fantastique... I'm not drumer but the result is extremely fantastique my drum sound like a records now!!!! tanks you very much!!!
Olivier
Also regarding the sand bag/resonance thing, the depth of a drum effects the length of it's decay more than it's pitch or timbre. Deeper shells have longer decay. The deeper the shell, the higher in pitch you should tune your resonant head in relation to your batter head.Vintage drums also develop all kinds of anomalies that make all of the rules null and void and tricks like the sand bag thing become necessary. Bearing edge damage, hoops that aren't totally flat anymore, etc. That's a cool trick though. The "jumping dampener" is a trick I use too. The more surface area of your top head that you cover, the less tone it can produce. So that trick is great when dampening is necessary.
Tried the sand bag in the studio today and it did the trick! Thanks for the tip!
The drums sounded fantastic even going through the dang lav mic.
The vid I was waiting for! Thanks SO much!
This video is a revelation! Found you because of your mastering stuff, but I've been looking for this for about a year.
Man, just getting to you wrapping up on tuning the first tom and I've already learned so much more than from any drum tuning video I've found so far. It really helped with forming an initial goal for a sound and you provide a path to reach it. Thanks for sharing your process, seriously.
OMFG, I just came across this channel by chance...this is freaking solid gold!!! Amazing...will watch more videos from Eric....
I can't believe how much I've learned from this video. Your sound lives through some of the greatest songs ever written. If you ever have the time I'd love to see a breakdown of more AAR mixes. I've been listening to "Breakin'" and "I wanna" non stop lately.
Eric, thank you for sharing this tuning process. You mentioned keeping the cymbals under control while tracking drums. I have found using lighter weight vintage 40s/50s Zildjian hi hats helps in keeping the hats under control too. More midrange meat and less hi end chic.
I found tune the kick resonant head to G and the batter to C. Works well with your tuning method. Thanks
Man... speechlessly thankful for this generous gift of mastery
This is brilliant - I bet T - Bone Burnett would love the kick just like I do - and the leather gate on the snare is awesome 👍👍👍
This guy is a genius... Thank you so much for sharing all your incredible knowledge with us.
Been here so many times, I almost feel like I'm watching myself. But its way cooler watching Eric do it.
Man.. you just keep delivering..!Thanks again Eric! This is a game changer in my studio drum setup and prep.
Fantastic breakdown very much appreciated. Thank you Eric and look forward the the other set ups when you have the time and are able.
nice video. Tuning drums is always magic for me.
Wow I’m only 20 minutes in but I’m having such a relatable good time watching this. When you pulled up the google sheets showing the bottom head note, top head note, and resulting total note that’s some shit that most people just don’t think of. Fuck ya Eric. Thank you so much for these videos.
Eric Valentine is a genius and this video is next level.
Amazing content. Thank you very much, Eric! Loved it :)))
That sandbag trick just changed my life.
Really informative! Looking forward to the multi-mic video as well!
I gotta fever, and the only prescription, is more mixing videos! Thanks for sharing your skills man.
One last comment from me.I'm obsessed with the way you shape the envelope and pitch of your lows. Artificial when you duplicate, delay, gate, and filter a source or when using multiple microphones on a kick. I hope you could get into that topic when doing an upcoming video about multi-miking drums at Barefoot.
I almost forgot but thank you for that video, that was amazing. (Also Saturn 2 is coming out in a couple of days)
Eric, you are the man. So generous with your expertise. Thank you.
Eric, have you tried cotton balls inside the shell to help control the floor tom sustain? I've had some pretty good results.
@@Studio8Recording Wow cool idea. I have not tried that. Would have to take the head off to adjust or remove it?
@@mrwev Granted, it's a GIANT pain in the ass, and does require removing the head until you find the right amount that works for each shell. I went through the process 9 or 10 times until I achieved the results I wanted. Luckily, I play a small kit, 1 rack, 1 floor.
Ah yes, the Benny Greb tip. Thanks for reminding us, I'll have to try it someday, his flour tom always sounds amazing (well, his whole drumkit ...).
You can just stuff them in through the vent usually, and remove them by turning the drum on its side and reaching in with a pair of needlenose pliers.
Wow BBBBIIIGGGGG thak you Eric nice sound, nice tricks and explanation, I`ll be wating for the next drum videos with 16 mcs, you inspired us to experiment our own things. Saludos from Mexico.
Thanks, Eric! This was way too good. Regards from Buenos Aires!
Please invite the Toontrack guys and make a SD kit out of this. Sounds amazing!
Thanks for sharing Eric. All the best, hope you re well. Nice video 😎👍
Wow, best tuning system Ive ever done, my toms sound killer. Thanks Eric!
Sounds amazing. Also a good reminder of the coated ambassador being a tried and trued classic
57:09 It’s sounds like this that make me keep loving what you do, Eric. You’re awesome! 😎✌🏻❤️
Blown away! Just fantastic...
New vid alert?
1) Auto-"Like"
2) Auto add to Favorites
3) Its abt drums, ah!
4) Sit back and enjoy
Very nice sounding drums! Gonna give this technique a go. Thanks!
You can also get rid of that floor tom sustain by flipping one of the legs upside down.
Hi Eric! I’ve seen your videos and I really appreciate your work, knowledge and mindset. Never heard of the sandbag or paper towel trick (sort of knowing it for a bass drum but never thought of it for other drums - could be a way to finally go unmuffled without a problem). And that “snare gating thing” …WOW, gold!
Also surprised to see that we tune kind of same range-wise, interval-wise… I’ve done tests like you did in a studio in the past but through almost whole range of drums with different heads and so on …and recording it (with kick drums too). NERD ATTENTION HERE. I have quite a lot experience to share (Bonham tuning included :D ) if you are interested.
I’ve had a few bad experiences of trying to help other older more seasoned engineers before, so now I think twice but I feel that you may be a kind of person that will appreciate it.
Take care
Heck yeah man I’d love to hear more about your experiments and I’m sure others would too! Make some videos if you ever have time!!
Great job, man. Way to get inside this stuff. I haven't tried diplomats yet. Sooo much good stuff here, thank you.
Very cool. Looking forward to the next one
Killa' drum sound! Love that loop you're playing to.
Great Video!! I learned a lot, can't wait to try some of these techniques.
Great video Eric! Have you ever heard of the this trick to tame the sustain of a floor tom: put one of the legs upside down. Or two, or three... Works great! 😎
It took me awhile to realize that the lav mic was picking up the studio monitors, I thought the playback was going direct to your OBS. That is one of the best sounding rooms. Usually when youtubers demo product's, like an amp they use there room mic, and the amp sounds like crap but one they take the line out, right to the recorder it sound fine. Once again great sounding room and the Lav mic proves it.
Super helpful! Especially the "small" Tricks like the Tom Papertowel and the Snare Damping. I´ve been recording Drums just with a 421 instead of the Beyerdynamic and a rather cheap Small Diaphragm Condenser instead of the U47. And unfortunately no UTA Outboard ;) But I really enjoy that approach to the Drumset...
Thanks a ton for sharing!
Eric, Simon Phillips uses paint cans filled with sand to the same effect in his kick drums, as you use for the floor toms, he says the sand just absorbs the unwanted freqs. You're awesome thanks.
Thank you so much Eric! This is amazing
sounds great as usual Eric! Thanks!
Hey Eric, I'd love to hear about your Trinnov/room tuning speaker experiences and thoughts in general when you get a chance. Thanks again for the videos and stay safe!
Thanks for doing these videos. As always interesting and informative!
I adore the drum sounds you got on Aslyn's Lemon Love Album
What a fantastic video once again! It sounds so good. Thank you so much for sharing all these information. I can"t wait to see the Barefoot version(s) of it.
Instead of the sandbacks you could also turn your floor tom legs upside down, so that they are only straight from the leg mount down to the floor. You can also experiment with one or two being normal (with the bend angles).
I always love the sound of coated ambassadors on my kick, but they always feel light and boxy. They reveal their real quality in the mix. A lot of live engineers do prefer the PS3. Probably because it's easier and you don't have that 10 feet away from the drum for that extra low end. Thanks again!
New Drinking Game: Every time Eric says coated ambassador. LOL
Joely Barish Bro, I’m out. I ain’t tryin’ to die.
Wanna have a good/horrible time, try drinking with every "um' or "uhhh".
It is truly unbelievable the amount of amazing information you offer!!! I've learned more with your videos than with stupid paid sound engineering courses that are an authentic ripoff.
So much valuable information.
Thank you ever so much for sharing so much of your knowledge with us.
Another good way to shorten the floor tom decay is to turn one (or more) of the floor tom legs around. So just the metal pointy end on the floor, not the rubber foot.
$52,424 drum sound here folks. Not counting the price of the 2 preamps (UTA?), A/D converters, plugins, etc.
Sugar Percussion shell pack; $6500
Studer J37 tape machine; $21,500
Langevin inductor EQs (black face, 5k @ +8db $1200
Unfairchild compressor $10,495
Roland RE-501 Chorus Echo $1700
API 2500 buss compressor $3130
Altec buss compressors $3200
Neumann u47 $4000
m160 $699
Not to take anything away from engineering experience and incredible talent. Just putting the financial investment part in perspective.
How to get close on a budget? To my ears, the biggest contributors to the sound are;
oddball 26"x11" sized kick
choice of heads & tuning
minimalist 2 mic approach
5khz booted by a shocking +8db
API 2500 buss compression
Eric would you agree?
Haha! yeah it seems very simple to me but I guess it really does add up when you're using this ridiculous vintage stuff. Your assessment is spot on. There are plenty of mics that would sound great in place of the U47tube (especially since most of it is filtered out) and there are a whole host of tape emulations that would definitely get close enough. The drums, the M160, where its placed, the room, how the drums are hit all make WAY more difference than any of the expensive stuff. It is certainly possible to do this or better with much more affordable gear :)
@@mrwev Hi Eric! Have you tried the new M160? How it sounds compared with the vintage one?
@@iagol9737 Following this question!
just recorded a beautiful sounding gretsch kit, tuned great, sounded great. But both toms and kick ( without dampening ) had these really high basketball overtones - drove me nuts!!! i'm going to try it! super interesting stuff man! thanks!
Hey eric this videos are freakin awesome!!!!!! It would be really helpfull a video talking about low end philosofy and theory, covering topics like: low end eq and how to approach that, how to get a good separation between kick and bass, how to get a good bass tone with di's and mics,how to get a good balance between kick mics, tips to know when its too much low end and when its too few low end, etc. Thanks for post all this teasures!!!!
Thank you for sharing such an insane wealth of knowledge with us!
Sounds great! And excellent explanation. Thank you!
Amazing video thats the real masterclass right here
Wow - two mics -- such a fat drum sound. Love it.
This is epic 💪🏼🙌🏼 Thank you! Seriously, sounds sooo good