i'm a blue belt so want to hear more expert takes, but from what i can tell it's hard to say without seeing the actual technique. it definitely seems like the instructor was using too much dynamic force. if the guy posted with his head, i believe the black belt shouldn't have forced his weight onto the neck, and he could have done more to look out for his training partner. i would have expected more control and playfulness out of a black belt.
If it is really true, it will make new people who have the intention to join this game a little bit afraid to practice this game and prefer not to join at all to avoid this kind of injuries.
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
Trial classes are very important, which allows you to evaluate the gym's culture. In some gyms you roll with school teachers and pharmacists, and in some gyms you roll with ex-convicts and hothead teenagers....you get the idea 😌
Crazy he sparred with a student and it was fine, and then gets injured by the coach. You'd think the last person to injure somebody is the coach. I've never felt more safe than when sparring my coaches.
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
We have to keep it in perspective. How many kids are paralyzed in football or wrestling? How many kids DIE in baseball practice from being struck by fastballs or fouls? Contact sports have consequences. Tragic.
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
Apparently it has come out that a lot of the initial reports about this simply aren’t correct. I don’t blame you for not having all the facts at the outset, but according to the surveillance footage from the gym and subsequent conversation shared on Tom DeBlass’ social media, the complete story is a bit different than this. Apparently, the person who was injured was a long time competitive wrestler who competed in and won jiu jitsu competitions, and had been training jiu jitsu for several years. The instructor at the gym did a Leo Vierra rolling back take, which is generally not considered a very dangerous move that I’m aware of. Is it? This appears to be a freak accident where one fairly experienced grappler was resisting hard against another experienced grappler who was applying a somewhat standard move. While there may be an argument to make about liability, the way this story is being framed here does not seem to comport with the facts that have come out since. I feel terrible for both players. Is there a chance that egos on both sides could have led to the injury? Which side was more guilty than the other of that? It’s hard to say or to cast blame based on the video evidence and other details available. I really don’t know. I’ve never heard of this back take being described as dangerous before. But maybe others’ experience is different there?
Something along the lines of this minus what DeBlass said is what I sent Chasen in a dm. Why on earth the other attorney wouldn’t want it known the white belt was a decently skilled grappler is a head scratcher. Can’t say enough how bad and unfortunate it is for the guy who was injured but we are playing a game that has risks. It’s inherently dangerous. Or CAN be. Doesn’t mean it’s negligence on the other person unless they’re an obvious AH continuing to crank a sub after the timer or tap.
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
I bet you that kid would pay $46 million to walk again or be able to drive a car. Ive trained for 2 years in the past. I was looking to get started again but after this, Im going to pass. Not worth the risk for me. I loved it but im not looking to sustain any injuries over some temporary fun and exercise.
Thank you for sharing. This is unfortunate for Jiu-Jitsu. Because I think many people might see this and come to the same conclusion as your-self that it may not be worth it.
@@ChasenHill yup. My buddy and I both were talking about getting back into it but just doesn't seem like its worth the risk. Albeit, the chances of an injury like this are extremely slim. Im not looking to roll the dice. When I look back, I played a lot of guard and I would land triangles on bigger guys and proceed to be folded in half as they smash me in their escape attempt. Im lucky something like this didn't happen to me.
**Pin this... the dude is NOT PARALYZED!!! He now boards and mountain bikes ALL day now. He's considered a quadriplegic which means he has numbness in ALL FOUR extremities.
It's standard practice for instructors to roll with new students because they should be the ones most capable of controlling the situation so that no one gets injured, although you have a good point in that technique is not commonly used in beginner classes however we all know some beginners can be wild and aggressive so an instructor sometimes has to amp it up to keep control. We've all met a kid with a few years of high school wrestling who shows up as a beginner in BJJ, the next thing you know they're trying to can opener you into next year... The instructor was trying to use a jump over turn to yank his man out of turtle but it seems like the injured guy had the side of his head on the mat instead of his forehead and that's what caused the pinching injury as his head laid over laterally with nearly the weight of two men as the instructor was pulling him through a roll. It definitely wasn't malicious but the instructor was a bit Reckless to use a momentum turn on a new student however I bet this guy had a relatively weak neck. Jumping over someone with an armpit is a perfectly reasonable way to try to turn someone out of turtle and the only reason this guy got hurt is because he had the side of his head on the ground rather than the round part of his forehead which is what you're supposed to do in turtle
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
@@ChasenHill I think it's an extremely dangerous precedent to set... next thing you know they're becomes a move criteria scale that no one can agree with leaving us wide open for litigation across-the-board.
The instructor made a mistake , but no money pay a life the student had before, this money will help him with physicians and everything , but as the guy told bellow the guy pay 46 millions to back walk
Trapping an arm and rolling someone is standard practice in international wrestling and Judo... this was an unfortunate accident and in no way should the instructor be held liable because the technique he was doing is perfectly legal in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu competition and everyone knows that guy was not a beginner but a tough College wrestler with years of BJJ mat time under his belt. Anyone jumping on the liability bandwagon is a worthless salesman trying to Market a slimy "my karate is safer" product to the world Knowing damn good and well every sport has inherent risk. I heard the judge wouldn't allow the waiver or this individual's wrestling background to be admissible in court.... this suppression of evidence is very suspicious
tom deblass has possible clip of the accident. after watching I don't think it was intentional and more an accident. and the guy talks about his grappling experience with a video chat with room full of marines. but slowing the video down you can see the guy never turns his head in the turtle he is looking to his left side. so when the instructor jumps up almost vertical the student comes up just enough to where he could roll and be safe. but that is when the accident happens the instructor comes down and the student lands on his neck because the way he lands his neck is trapped under him while instructor is almost landing completely on his side because the instructor landing on his side it forces the students body to turn to his side which continues to torque the neck under him. very unfortunate, but I can see that the instructor could have looked for a safer way to break the turtle. but that's my opinion on this.
I have seen the clip as well. It does appear to be different than the statement. It's still a tricky situation and unfortunate. No doubt the instructor is extremely skilled, but is it worth doing this technique on less skilled students? I have no idea what the answer is.
@@aaroncrothers3603Thanks for checking the video out. I'm sorry you feel this way. I've never deleted anyone's comments. I've had several discussions and disagreements with people on this channel. I believe people can delete and remove their own comments, though.
@@ChasenHill man I’m pretty pissed at some of the stuff you said condemning one of our brothers in a moment of tragedy. You had no conclusive evidence for some of your editorial comments. It turns out the facts paint a much different picture. One of our brothers will have to live with this for the rest of his life. He’s likely not a psychopath and is suffering greatly. How about dm him and pick him up instead of spout terrible unfounded shit about him. We pick each other up when one of us goes down. That’s what a good partner does. On a personal note I had an instructor commit suicide many years ago. He always told me I was a good partner. Best lesson I’ve ever learned. Belts are irrelevant. Do better
He most likely won't collect that. Most gyms have an insurance policy. The insurance will probably contest the amount and a judge will determine the actually amount later on.
@@evanburgess8428 . The guy is a cripple now. If it happened to you or your son you’d be singing another tune. He’s not climbing mountains, he’s walking trails with crutches.
Pretty scary shit. There is a lot of ego in BJJ no matter what we want to tell ourselves and the pretense that it isnt a thing is kinda a problem imo. Also, the reality is most white belts may not know to respect a foot tap. Imagine learning arm trap back takes to RNC and you are laying on your one free arm, the other is trapped by a leg, the RNC is tight, how does a white belt tap? How does the applier of the choke know that the foot tap is a tap?
It’s too many BJJ classes I thought by meatheads. BJJ Black belts have a reputation of taking about 5 to 10 years to become a black belt, but Black belts are supposed to have the maturity to teach without harming their students its not enough to know how to do a technique you should be able to teach the dangers of the technique and how to safely teach them. Serious injuries and deaths happen many times in 1970s in New York dojo teaching karate until lawsuits made them invent safety equipment and come up with a curriculum for beginner students jujitsu. I saw a 12 year old girl cripple another 12 year old girl at EBI because she didn’t give the girl time to tap. Ridiculous
this was not the case. It was an accident and this guy was milking it for all he could get. A serial chad with hobbies such as surfing, trekking in the wild, wrestling and jiu jitsu. He has a terrible attitude and it shows in the videos HE released after the incident. On a trek, AFTER the incident, he arrogantly states "We´re 15 miles in, only way out is finishing the trek or taking a helicopter..." then when they show him falling due to coordination issues, he says "falls are gonna happen.." yet you can damn well bet if he actually made himself a liability to the group he would have blamed them.
@@evanburgess8428 his being an asshole is no excuse. An expert martial artist should never cripple a novice student. As a karate ka in the 90s I dealt with aggressive student without hurting them because I was in control.
@@lannelbishop3668 He wasn´t a novice and he was putting himself in dangerous situations and continues to do so. That is his choice. you can´t jump in the gorilla enclosure and expect to constantly be fine. He went into a class because the waves weren´t big enough to surf. He had dealt out suplexes, a move which can easily go wrong if the opponent doesn´t know how to take it, yet there he is smashing people into the earth and piking on his own head, looking like he is trying to invert/granby, it sends a signal to the opponent it is a sophisticated challenge and maybe they should roll with the opponent. Yes, it could have been avoided, but considering this guys attitude in general it is only a matter of time before he suffered some kind of injury. He was simply lucky enough to be able to sue someone afterwards, you can´t sue a rock or your own surfboard.
His take is spot on. Rener explained his analysis in his video. Many other blackbelts have also agreed now that the clearer version of the video has been seen.
If anything good can come from this it will be to finally expose the gracies for what they are The end game is if their name isnt attached to it, they dont want people doing it
Out of all the options the instructor had, and he does a rolling back take? The student literally gave him his back, should have just went the safer route and attacked turtle, and let the student work from it and try to escape. 😢
Is the rolling back take considered a dangerous move? I don’t really do it and it’s not popular at my gym, but I’ve never heard of it described as being dangerous or unusual before. Does it have a known higher injury rate than other options?
@@JustinColletti it can be in the situation like this. I think also that with a wrestling background, they’re used to rolling out of things differently than Jiu Jitsi guys and that can cause problems such as this.
@@MarcusHarness1 yeah I saw the video. It’s crazy because they were both experienced grapplers. It really could have happened to anyone. Being a smaller guy, I’m always aware of where the other person is and how my body is positioned.
@@bobbydabutcha I’m not asking if it can be potentially dangerous. That describes practically every move in jiu jitsu. Clearly, at least in a small number of freak occurrences, something like this could possibly occur. Just as in a small number of freak occurrences, someone can have a stroke and die from a blood choke. The question is whether it’s known to be especially dangerous compared to the rest of the moves in jiu jitsu-which is the argument that was made and granted such a huge settlement. If this is literally the first time in countless millions of attempts around the world that such a severe injury has ever occurred, then it’s not known to be dangerous. If such injuries have happened numerous times in the past, then it could be described as being known to be dangerous. If this is literally the first time, then it was unknown to be potentially this dangerous before, let alone known to be more dangerous than the rest of jiu jitsu. Whether you’d use the move NOW, having already seen this occurrence, has no bearing on whether it would have been reasonable to use the move before. Scissor takedowns are banned in many tournaments, and so are intentional neck cranks and intentional head spikes. Although tani o toshi isn’t banned, it could be described as “known” to be dangerous with the head in front of uke’s body. If an instructor does any of these things to a lesser untrained person, there’s a strong case to be made. But if has not been the case with this move, then the shoe doesn’t fit. However, if such an injury were to ever happen again AFTER this much publicity about the move, then perhaps the shoe might fit in that case. Hope that makes sense, Justin
When you accidentally kill someone with a car, you go to jail, even if the victim actually jaywalked. When you accidentally paralyzed your club member, you pay the price. It's fair and square. It's funny how jiu jitsu practitioners think they can avoid legal responsibilities for causing serious injuries to others.
@Ivan Ivanovic Can we all agree on this: Whether insured or not, malicious or not, we all have a legal responsibility in accordance to the consequences? If the student gets seriously injured by the instructor, the instructor is responsible, period. Welcome to the real world, where legal responsibilities are everywhere, including workplace safety and marriage, can't just call everything an accident right?
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
Pretty much all you said are wrong. End of the day, guy is now climbing 14,500ft mountains and saying such things such as "I never walked so far before able bodied or disabled" so in fact he is doing better sporting achievements after this accident? Ok. The guy, if you did any basic research, is essentially a chad, who has routinely put himself in dangerous situations (wrestling, surfing, climbing/hiking). The reason he himself gave for going to the gym that day? "The surf wasn´t good enough so I went to jiu jitsu instead..." so essentially, the waves weren´t lively enough? AFTER the incident, he was up and walking unaided 6 months. After this, he decided to climb/trek a 14,500ft mountain, as he put it "just under" the threshold for needing oxygen and other equipment. All while falling over etc, due to him having less coordination. As amazing as the journey is, HE is a liability to his group and is falling over in the middle of nowhere, and himself said "We are 15 miles in, the only way out is to finish the trek or a helicopter..:" this is the kind of arrogance of this person! Lets put in into context, he was SUPLEXING a guy in a contest due to his WRESTLING experience. That means, training cross code in wrestling, to take techniques NOT FAMILIAR to jiu jitsu and use them on people he hoped didn´t have such good wrestling. Had the opponent acted strangely, he could have injured that opponent in exactly the same way. In the actaul incident, what you actually see is a guy who is very competitive not wanting to give an inch to a black belt. Whilst in turtle, he puts his own head on the ground as if trying to granby/invert. The coach, who whilst was partially liable for the injury, probably assumed the guy knew what he was doing. Therefore he tried the roll, thinking the guy was trying to roll anyway. AS he tried the roll the guy who got injured POSTED HIS OWN HEAD in the way, he must have felt the force coming and decided to use his own head to stop it. It was a terrible accident, but if any of the people had behaved differently that day they would have had a massively different outcome. In my opinion, whilst he should of course get medical treatment and perhaps some compensation, he is just a liability to himself and others and would continue to put people in stupid situations then blame them for it. The amount quoted is MONSTROUSLY disgusting. Bearing in mind other people are actually disabled and actually can´t walk ALL THEIR LIVES and get nothing. This person was just lucky enough to be able to sue someone for it and like a real lowlife, took all he could. Pathetic. $11 million for pain and suffering? I have a wheelchair bound friend who will never walk and has to work to support themself. madness.
He is walking with sticks. Just because he is on the road to recovery doesn't mean that someone isn't liable for having had to endure the injury in the first place. So, what you are saying is that if you break your neck and suffer for a year or two but start to recover, you don't deserve any compensation?
@@jtmarcel640 Please explain to me where I said people don´t have right to care and what they need? How much money do you make a year? Do you think you would need $46million? Hello? I know disabled people all over the world and none of them have $46million and are far worse off, including wheelchair bound. So where exactly does your "being disabled equals getting $46m" come from? The judgement is ridiculous and whilst it is a sign of the peculiarities of the American legal system, it is in no way based upon the reality of what happened and what a person needs to live on with those injuries. Or are you now claiming everyone who is somewhat hindered but can walk and take care of themselves needs $46m? I worked with a guy disabled from 19 because he fell on a trampoline the wrong way and broke his back. If you gave him the choice between the function this guy currently has and $46 million I am quite sure he´d choose the function! Whilst it will be a long way, and quite likely he will never see this money, the judgement is still ridiculous as it has no bearing on reality and trivialises things. How much money should people now get for minor injuries? A thousand for a finger? 100,000 for a broken leg? It makes no sense and it doesn´t even take into account the fact the guy chose to be there, had as per video evidence used "surprising" techniques to his advantage (a suplex in a BJJ competition, come on, when do BJJ white belts learn suplexes? Easily could have gone wrong for his opponent, yet you can guarantee he learned that technique hoping to use it with the element of SURPRISE on a hapless BJJer). If you actually look deeper into this, you see someone who was a risk taker when it suited him and when it didn´t goes to sue hoping to either bleed someone dry or ruin someone´s business. Again, in his own words the only reason he wasn´t in the sea that day is because the waves weren´t big enough. He is partially responsible for what happened to him due to the way he was behaving in the roll (piking his own head as if he was going to do a headstand, which you can clearly see, than last second posting with it). To complain he was "hit with a move he wasn´t trained in..." well, hello, suplex in a BJJ comp.
@@evanburgess8428 What price would you put on not being able to ever do jiujitsu again? Slowly hiking up a mountain with sticks isnt the same as being able to do your passionate sport (in his case surfing), but it could be BJJ. You want to give up BJJ? What value do you place on never being able to compete or train BJJ again for the rest of your life? a million? 2 million? What do you think he should have gotten for being injured and still struggling and not being able to wrestle, surf, or train BJJ? $50k? 100k? $500k? a million? how much is it worth to you?
@@jtmarcel640 hello? What do people normally earn in a good job? 70,000 a year in america? We're talking about someone capable of working, but lets say he was going to be a lawyer or electrician and lost 40 years of work, if he were to earn the equivalent of 80,000 a year after taxes it would come to $ 3.2 plus whatever his bills cost for medical treatment (in america possibly insane but he may well have been insured). All that whilst ALSO being able to keep whatever money he could make through work or business is more than fair enough. I have a friend who is a lawyer and wheel chair bound. She never did a day of jiu jitsu let alone be able to walk. How on earth do you reason? If lets say it was anthony keidis and the chili peppers were about to go on a tour this kind of figure might make sense.
What are your thoughts?
i'm a blue belt so want to hear more expert takes, but from what i can tell it's hard to say without seeing the actual technique. it definitely seems like the instructor was using too much dynamic force. if the guy posted with his head, i believe the black belt shouldn't have forced his weight onto the neck, and he could have done more to look out for his training partner. i would have expected more control and playfulness out of a black belt.
Agreed. Even if the instructor had done, the technique, 1 million times, he should still taking a consideration the newer student.
Sadly
He wasn´t a brand new student, he was a competitor and you have done no research at all.
@@evanburgess8428 This video was published based solely on the article before more information came out :)
If it is really true, it will make new people who have the intention to join this game a little bit afraid to practice this game and prefer not to join at all to avoid this kind of injuries.
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
Trial classes are very important, which allows you to evaluate the gym's culture. In some gyms you roll with school teachers and pharmacists, and in some gyms you roll with ex-convicts and hothead teenagers....you get the idea 😌
Crazy he sparred with a student and it was fine, and then gets injured by the coach. You'd think the last person to injure somebody is the coach.
I've never felt more safe than when sparring my coaches.
Agreed 👍🏻
Not what happened. Actually find out instead of make massive conjecture.
Video is out... rolling backtake from turtle.
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
We have to keep it in perspective. How many kids are paralyzed in football or wrestling? How many kids DIE in baseball practice from being struck by fastballs or fouls? Contact sports have consequences. Tragic.
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
Apparently it has come out that a lot of the initial reports about this simply aren’t correct.
I don’t blame you for not having all the facts at the outset, but according to the surveillance footage from the gym and subsequent conversation shared on Tom DeBlass’ social media, the complete story is a bit different than this.
Apparently, the person who was injured was a long time competitive wrestler who competed in and won jiu jitsu competitions, and had been training jiu jitsu for several years.
The instructor at the gym did a Leo Vierra rolling back take, which is generally not considered a very dangerous move that I’m aware of. Is it?
This appears to be a freak accident where one fairly experienced grappler was resisting hard against another experienced grappler who was applying a somewhat standard move.
While there may be an argument to make about liability, the way this story is being framed here does not seem to comport with the facts that have come out since.
I feel terrible for both players. Is there a chance that egos on both sides could have led to the injury? Which side was more guilty than the other of that?
It’s hard to say or to cast blame based on the video evidence and other details available. I really don’t know.
I’ve never heard of this back take being described as dangerous before. But maybe others’ experience is different there?
Something along the lines of this minus what DeBlass said is what I sent Chasen in a dm. Why on earth the other attorney wouldn’t want it known the white belt was a decently skilled grappler is a head scratcher. Can’t say enough how bad and unfortunate it is for the guy who was injured but we are playing a game that has risks. It’s inherently dangerous. Or CAN be. Doesn’t mean it’s negligence on the other person unless they’re an obvious AH continuing to crank a sub after the timer or tap.
100% what I was thinking... Fucking once in a life Freak Accident....
Dudes just left with the repercussions....
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
I bet you that kid would pay $46 million to walk again or be able to drive a car. Ive trained for 2 years in the past. I was looking to get started again but after this, Im going to pass. Not worth the risk for me. I loved it but im not looking to sustain any injuries over some temporary fun and exercise.
Thank you for sharing. This is unfortunate for Jiu-Jitsu. Because I think many people might see this and come to the same conclusion as your-self that it may not be worth it.
@@ChasenHill yup. My buddy and I both were talking about getting back into it but just doesn't seem like its worth the risk. Albeit, the chances of an injury like this are extremely slim. Im not looking to roll the dice. When I look back, I played a lot of guard and I would land triangles on bigger guys and proceed to be folded in half as they smash me in their escape attempt. Im lucky something like this didn't happen to me.
**Pin this... the dude is NOT PARALYZED!!! He now boards and mountain bikes ALL day now. He's considered a quadriplegic which means he has numbness in ALL FOUR extremities.
It's standard practice for instructors to roll with new students because they should be the ones most capable of controlling the situation so that no one gets injured, although you have a good point in that technique is not commonly used in beginner classes however we all know some beginners can be wild and aggressive so an instructor sometimes has to amp it up to keep control. We've all met a kid with a few years of high school wrestling who shows up as a beginner in BJJ, the next thing you know they're trying to can opener you into next year...
The instructor was trying to use a jump over turn to yank his man out of turtle but it seems like the injured guy had the side of his head on the mat instead of his forehead and that's what caused the pinching injury as his head laid over laterally with nearly the weight of two men as the instructor was pulling him through a roll.
It definitely wasn't malicious but the instructor was a bit Reckless to use a momentum turn on a new student however I bet this guy had a relatively weak neck.
Jumping over someone with an armpit is a perfectly reasonable way to try to turn someone out of turtle and the only reason this guy got hurt is because he had the side of his head on the ground rather than the round part of his forehead which is what you're supposed to do in turtle
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
@@ChasenHill I think it's an extremely dangerous precedent to set... next thing you know they're becomes a move criteria scale that no one can agree with leaving us wide open for litigation across-the-board.
They need to change the name to Su Sitsu😂😂😂😂
I hope what you saying does not happen this was a one off from a sloppy Black Belt.
I hope not, either.
This is tragic
this is spot on.
The instructor made a mistake , but no money pay a life the student had before, this money will help him with physicians and everything , but as the guy told bellow the guy pay 46 millions to back walk
Trapping an arm and rolling someone is standard practice in international wrestling and Judo... this was an unfortunate accident and in no way should the instructor be held liable because the technique he was doing is perfectly legal in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu competition and everyone knows that guy was not a beginner but a tough College wrestler with years of BJJ mat time under his belt. Anyone jumping on the liability bandwagon is a worthless salesman trying to Market a slimy "my karate is safer" product to the world Knowing damn good and well every sport has inherent risk. I heard the judge wouldn't allow the waiver or this individual's wrestling background to be admissible in court.... this suppression of evidence is very suspicious
another reason to avoid bjj altogether
tom deblass has possible clip of the accident. after watching I don't think it was intentional and more an accident. and the guy talks about his grappling experience with a video chat with room full of marines. but slowing the video down you can see the guy never turns his head in the turtle he is looking to his left side. so when the instructor jumps up almost vertical the student comes up just enough to where he could roll and be safe. but that is when the accident happens the instructor comes down and the student lands on his neck because the way he lands his neck is trapped under him while instructor is almost landing completely on his side because the instructor landing on his side it forces the students body to turn to his side which continues to torque the neck under him. very unfortunate, but I can see that the instructor could have looked for a safer way to break the turtle. but that's my opinion on this.
Be careful @cbk_jj this guy deletes any opinions that arent his own. This channel is media garbage
I have seen the clip as well. It does appear to be different than the statement. It's still a tricky situation and unfortunate. No doubt the instructor is extremely skilled, but is it worth doing this technique on less skilled students? I have no idea what the answer is.
@@aaroncrothers3603Thanks for checking the video out. I'm sorry you feel this way. I've never deleted anyone's comments. I've had several discussions and disagreements with people on this channel. I believe people can delete and remove their own comments, though.
@@ChasenHillcheck your dms on the gram please? Wanted to share what I found privately to avoid this kinda thing cuz it sucks all around.
@@ChasenHill man I’m pretty pissed at some of the stuff you said condemning one of our brothers in a moment of tragedy. You had no conclusive evidence for some of your editorial comments. It turns out the facts paint a much different picture.
One of our brothers will have to live with this for the rest of his life. He’s likely not a psychopath and is suffering greatly. How about dm him and pick him up instead of spout terrible unfounded shit about him.
We pick each other up when one of us goes down. That’s what a good partner does. On a personal note I had an instructor commit suicide many years ago. He always told me I was a good partner. Best lesson I’ve ever learned. Belts are irrelevant. Do better
Where is this 45 millions suppose to come from?
It is complete nonsense, the guy is walking and hiking 14,500ft mountains.
He most likely won't collect that. Most gyms have an insurance policy. The insurance will probably contest the amount and a judge will determine the actually amount later on.
@@evanburgess8428 . The guy is a cripple now. If it happened to you or your son you’d be singing another tune. He’s not climbing mountains, he’s walking trails with crutches.
@@ChasenHill insurance company is responsible for the whole amount
Pretty scary shit. There is a lot of ego in BJJ no matter what we want to tell ourselves and the pretense that it isnt a thing is kinda a problem imo. Also, the reality is most white belts may not know to respect a foot tap. Imagine learning arm trap back takes to RNC and you are laying on your one free arm, the other is trapped by a leg, the RNC is tight, how does a white belt tap? How does the applier of the choke know that the foot tap is a tap?
46 MILLION!!! Wtf
Wtf he going to do with 46 million, you crippled bruh
No idea! I'm curious if he’ll actually collect any of that money.
@@NamasteBean apparently he is climbing mountains now, so it’s nice to know he is at least partially recovered.
They can stem cell the shit outta him.. maybe even bring him back
@JBean pay off all his medical bills and to live off of for the rest of his life because he can't work.
It’s too many BJJ classes I thought by meatheads. BJJ Black belts have a reputation of taking about 5 to 10 years to become a black belt, but Black belts are supposed to have the maturity to teach without harming their students its not enough to know how to do a technique you should be able to teach the dangers of the technique and how to safely teach them. Serious injuries and deaths happen
many times in 1970s in New York dojo teaching karate until lawsuits made them invent safety equipment and come up with a curriculum for beginner students jujitsu. I saw a 12 year old girl cripple another 12 year old girl at EBI because she didn’t give the girl time to tap. Ridiculous
this was not the case. It was an accident and this guy was milking it for all he could get. A serial chad with hobbies such as surfing, trekking in the wild, wrestling and jiu jitsu. He has a terrible attitude and it shows in the videos HE released after the incident. On a trek, AFTER the incident, he arrogantly states "We´re 15 miles in, only way out is finishing the trek or taking a helicopter..." then when they show him falling due to coordination issues, he says "falls are gonna happen.." yet you can damn well bet if he actually made himself a liability to the group he would have blamed them.
@@evanburgess8428 his being an asshole is no excuse. An expert martial artist should never cripple a novice student. As a karate ka in the 90s I dealt with aggressive student without hurting them because I was in control.
@@lannelbishop3668 He wasn´t a novice and he was putting himself in dangerous situations and continues to do so. That is his choice. you can´t jump in the gorilla enclosure and expect to constantly be fine. He went into a class because the waves weren´t big enough to surf. He had dealt out suplexes, a move which can easily go wrong if the opponent doesn´t know how to take it, yet there he is smashing people into the earth and piking on his own head, looking like he is trying to invert/granby, it sends a signal to the opponent it is a sophisticated challenge and maybe they should roll with the opponent. Yes, it could have been avoided, but considering this guys attitude in general it is only a matter of time before he suffered some kind of injury. He was simply lucky enough to be able to sue someone afterwards, you can´t sue a rock or your own surfboard.
you should get your facts straight before sharing your thoughts
His take is spot on. Rener explained his analysis in his video. Many other blackbelts have also agreed now that the clearer version of the video has been seen.
Not worth the money
Paralyzed?? Wha that means, he can't tap no mo?
If anything good can come from this it will be to finally expose the gracies for what they are
The end game is if their name isnt attached to it, they dont want people doing it
Out of all the options the instructor had, and he does a rolling back take? The student literally gave him his back, should have just went the safer route and attacked turtle, and let the student work from it and try to escape. 😢
Is the rolling back take considered a dangerous move? I don’t really do it and it’s not popular at my gym, but I’ve never heard of it described as being dangerous or unusual before.
Does it have a known higher injury rate than other options?
@@JustinColletti it can be in the situation like this. I think also that with a wrestling background, they’re used to rolling out of things differently than Jiu Jitsi guys and that can cause problems such as this.
If that’s the case we should stop doing 90% of moves because they COULD potentially lead to something like this.. it was a freak accident man
@@MarcusHarness1 yeah I saw the video. It’s crazy because they were both experienced grapplers. It really could have happened to anyone. Being a smaller guy, I’m always aware of where the other person is and how my body is positioned.
@@bobbydabutcha I’m not asking if it can be potentially dangerous. That describes practically every move in jiu jitsu.
Clearly, at least in a small number of freak occurrences, something like this could possibly occur. Just as in a small number of freak occurrences, someone can have a stroke and die from a blood choke.
The question is whether it’s known to be especially dangerous compared to the rest of the moves in jiu jitsu-which is the argument that was made and granted such a huge settlement.
If this is literally the first time in countless millions of attempts around the world that such a severe injury has ever occurred, then it’s not known to be dangerous.
If such injuries have happened numerous times in the past, then it could be described as being known to be dangerous.
If this is literally the first time, then it was unknown to be potentially this dangerous before, let alone known to be more dangerous than the rest of jiu jitsu.
Whether you’d use the move NOW, having already seen this occurrence, has no bearing on whether it would have been reasonable to use the move before.
Scissor takedowns are banned in many tournaments, and so are intentional neck cranks and intentional head spikes.
Although tani o toshi isn’t banned, it could be described as “known” to be dangerous with the head in front of uke’s body. If an instructor does any of these things to a lesser untrained person, there’s a strong case to be made.
But if has not been the case with this move, then the shoe doesn’t fit.
However, if such an injury were to ever happen again AFTER this much publicity about the move, then perhaps the shoe might fit in that case.
Hope that makes sense,
Justin
When you accidentally kill someone with a car, you go to jail, even if the victim actually jaywalked. When you accidentally paralyzed your club member, you pay the price. It's fair and square.
It's funny how jiu jitsu practitioners think they can avoid legal responsibilities for causing serious injuries to others.
Well the British Judo Association insures you for pretty much any injury, just by being a member.
It’s jiujitsu! You signup and there are risks
@Ivan Ivanovic Can we all agree on this: Whether insured or not, malicious or not, we all have a legal responsibility in accordance to the consequences? If the student gets seriously injured by the instructor, the instructor is responsible, period. Welcome to the real world, where legal responsibilities are everywhere, including workplace safety and marriage, can't just call everything an accident right?
@@carreromartialarts Sounds like people should avoid your school for good 😌👍
@@hanstuan-haoliu6621 I guess there are no risks huh?? Yes I don’t need fragile people in my school.. never come please
Saw the video. Did not look intentional at all. Unnecessary for a beginner… maybe. Extremely unfortunate and terrible accident
Agreed, I don't believe personally there was malintent from the instructor after seeing the video. However, there is no injury if the instructor never attempts that technique. It's a delicate balance combined with an unfortunate mishap. It sucks for Jiu-Jitsu.
Pretty much all you said are wrong.
End of the day, guy is now climbing 14,500ft mountains and saying such things such as "I never walked so far before able bodied or disabled" so in fact he is doing better sporting achievements after this accident? Ok. The guy, if you did any basic research, is essentially a chad, who has routinely put himself in dangerous situations (wrestling, surfing, climbing/hiking). The reason he himself gave for going to the gym that day? "The surf wasn´t good enough so I went to jiu jitsu instead..." so essentially, the waves weren´t lively enough?
AFTER the incident, he was up and walking unaided 6 months. After this, he decided to climb/trek a 14,500ft mountain, as he put it "just under" the threshold for needing oxygen and other equipment. All while falling over etc, due to him having less coordination. As amazing as the journey is, HE is a liability to his group and is falling over in the middle of nowhere, and himself said "We are 15 miles in, the only way out is to finish the trek or a helicopter..:" this is the kind of arrogance of this person! Lets put in into context, he was SUPLEXING a guy in a contest due to his WRESTLING experience. That means, training cross code in wrestling, to take techniques NOT FAMILIAR to jiu jitsu and use them on people he hoped didn´t have such good wrestling. Had the opponent acted strangely, he could have injured that opponent in exactly the same way.
In the actaul incident, what you actually see is a guy who is very competitive not wanting to give an inch to a black belt. Whilst in turtle, he puts his own head on the ground as if trying to granby/invert. The coach, who whilst was partially liable for the injury, probably assumed the guy knew what he was doing. Therefore he tried the roll, thinking the guy was trying to roll anyway. AS he tried the roll the guy who got injured POSTED HIS OWN HEAD in the way, he must have felt the force coming and decided to use his own head to stop it. It was a terrible accident, but if any of the people had behaved differently that day they would have had a massively different outcome.
In my opinion, whilst he should of course get medical treatment and perhaps some compensation, he is just a liability to himself and others and would continue to put people in stupid situations then blame them for it. The amount quoted is MONSTROUSLY disgusting. Bearing in mind other people are actually disabled and actually can´t walk ALL THEIR LIVES and get nothing. This person was just lucky enough to be able to sue someone for it and like a real lowlife, took all he could. Pathetic. $11 million for pain and suffering? I have a wheelchair bound friend who will never walk and has to work to support themself. madness.
He is walking with sticks. Just because he is on the road to recovery doesn't mean that someone isn't liable for having had to endure the injury in the first place. So, what you are saying is that if you break your neck and suffer for a year or two but start to recover, you don't deserve any compensation?
@@jtmarcel640 Please explain to me where I said people don´t have right to care and what they need? How much money do you make a year? Do you think you would need $46million? Hello? I know disabled people all over the world and none of them have $46million and are far worse off, including wheelchair bound. So where exactly does your "being disabled equals getting $46m" come from? The judgement is ridiculous and whilst it is a sign of the peculiarities of the American legal system, it is in no way based upon the reality of what happened and what a person needs to live on with those injuries. Or are you now claiming everyone who is somewhat hindered but can walk and take care of themselves needs $46m?
I worked with a guy disabled from 19 because he fell on a trampoline the wrong way and broke his back. If you gave him the choice between the function this guy currently has and $46 million I am quite sure he´d choose the function!
Whilst it will be a long way, and quite likely he will never see this money, the judgement is still ridiculous as it has no bearing on reality and trivialises things. How much money should people now get for minor injuries? A thousand for a finger? 100,000 for a broken leg? It makes no sense and it doesn´t even take into account the fact the guy chose to be there, had as per video evidence used "surprising" techniques to his advantage (a suplex in a BJJ competition, come on, when do BJJ white belts learn suplexes? Easily could have gone wrong for his opponent, yet you can guarantee he learned that technique hoping to use it with the element of SURPRISE on a hapless BJJer).
If you actually look deeper into this, you see someone who was a risk taker when it suited him and when it didn´t goes to sue hoping to either bleed someone dry or ruin someone´s business. Again, in his own words the only reason he wasn´t in the sea that day is because the waves weren´t big enough. He is partially responsible for what happened to him due to the way he was behaving in the roll (piking his own head as if he was going to do a headstand, which you can clearly see, than last second posting with it). To complain he was "hit with a move he wasn´t trained in..." well, hello, suplex in a BJJ comp.
@@evanburgess8428 What price would you put on not being able to ever do jiujitsu again? Slowly hiking up a mountain with sticks isnt the same as being able to do your passionate sport (in his case surfing), but it could be BJJ. You want to give up BJJ? What value do you place on never being able to compete or train BJJ again for the rest of your life? a million? 2 million? What do you think he should have gotten for being injured and still struggling and not being able to wrestle, surf, or train BJJ? $50k? 100k? $500k? a million? how much is it worth to you?
@@jtmarcel640 hello? What do people normally earn in a good job? 70,000 a year in america? We're talking about someone capable of working, but lets say he was going to be a lawyer or electrician and lost 40 years of work, if he were to earn the equivalent of 80,000 a year after taxes it would come to $ 3.2 plus whatever his bills cost for medical treatment (in america possibly insane but he may well have been insured). All that whilst ALSO being able to keep whatever money he could make through work or business is more than fair enough. I have a friend who is a lawyer and wheel chair bound. She never did a day of jiu jitsu let alone be able to walk. How on earth do you reason? If lets say it was anthony keidis and the chili peppers were about to go on a tour this kind of figure might make sense.