it's SO interesting that if you don't save Treviso that he wants to separate from Spite omg i wonder if it really ties into the mind prison mission you only get when saving Treviso. its like an unhardened Lucanis (especially romanced) truly sees the value in Spite and once they learn to work together, he basically will stay with him and it's like he sees it as the best option for a romanced Rook to be safe because both he and Spite care about you so you will be protected no matter what. but when he's hardened and you don't get the mission to help him work with Spite, there's part of him thats scared Spite will hurt his family and Neve. really makes it harder to wanna save Minrathous tbh lol the mind prison mission is probably his best companion quest
What's also interesting is that if you do save Treviso and romance/befriend Lucanis he and Rook have a good influence on Spite. Which turns him back into a spirit. If you take Lucanis with you for the final fight there is party banter with Solas. He calls Spite a spirit of determination and offers to separate him from Lucanis. Spite gets angry, tells Solas that he hurt Rook and lied. The end game card also tells you that they work together for the future. Which made me choose to never save Minrathous 😅🤣
For all those annoyed by the Lucanis Love Lockout situation…me too BUT what IF they wrote it this way because of Spite. There’s a reason Spite connected to Lucanis. What if the SPITEfull side of Lucanis is why players can be locked out of a romance if Trevino isn’t saved? Out of Spite, Lucanis is like 🤬 you forever. 😊
@@Shelbzz I'm all for this reasoning, especially sacrificing Treviso as an Antivan Crow rook. He's *really* angry at Rook so it was an interesting scene to witness. But when I watched a Shadow Dragon playthrough, I don't think Lucanis nor Viago was that angry...so it kind of contradicts on how Lucanis should be portrayed as spiteful. We don't get to see Spite being a threat before the Act 1 choice, so that's what's confusing because if we do save Treviso and get to see more of Spite? We just see the demon being a bit comedic like taking Lucanis sleepwalking and Taash talking down Spite like a misbehaving pet. It would be more appropriate to see the threat of Spite like during the end of his Bloodbath quest. Have more "!" surprise moments in the lighthouse where Spite actually bothers Rook, other than showing Lucanis being obsessed with coffee.
I just think it hurt him like crazy and he’s unable to cope with it, unable to feel he can do anything right. He hated the idea of being an abomination because he had a standard to hold towards Caterina and the crows and anyone he cared for. Treviso becoming blighted kind of removes anyway he’d be able to do a full self healing journey, and definitely would be unable to come to terms or cope with the existence of Spite. When you save Treviso its one less stress off of him making him able to explore and actually reason with Spite. Also, an interesting theory someone I saw on tiktok make was that due to you being there at the Ossuary and helping and being the leading figure, Spite and Lucanis both quickly take a liking towards you whether its friendship-wise or romantic. Spite wanting to talk to Rook, demanding to talk to them as if Spite believes they have the ability to help Spite. Maybe their aura or smth. Anyway they also brought up the fact that the difference in a Lucanis and Rook romance and a Lucanis and Neve romance its that he feels he has more to lose when in a relationship with Rook so it scares him, he’s afraid to want Rook because the consequences are more dire, more to lose. Spite is also shown to like Rook way more than Neve, considering Rook is a lot more accepting of him and his presence. Someone brought up the fact that when asked about being in a romance with Rook, Lucanis expresses he doesn't understand what Rook sees in him and he’s greatful (I may edit this and do a direct quote but its relatively close). When asked about Neve, the only thing he says is “we’re seeing where it goes.” There’s a distinct difference between them I think.
@@bussydestroyer5000It's alright! I'm not on tiktok, so reading the theory is a great insight. Also, I moved on from the Lucanis choice...😆 Basically romancing Davrin whenever I save Minrathous at this point. Gameplay wise, the player has a lot to lose tbh if you save Minrathous vs saving Treviso because of (1) the lock out romance, and (2) deciding the Archon doesn't mean much for non-Shadow Dragon Rooks (Dorian becomes the default if you save Treviso anyway). The Viper can still live as long as you progress through Neve's quest. I felt like most of the coping for the Lucanis romance is because of the minimal reactivity and romance interactions we see in game, rather than what is implied happening behind the scenes/codex entries.
@@pikajulie_art So true, plus the common misconception that you needed to save Minrathous to get the best ending. I personally can’t find a reason to save Minrathous since you can still easily romance Neve if saving Treviso, and seeing Lucanis that hurt is so sad. I rather Neve be angry and I reconcile her trust through action. I was gonna try to romance Davrin or Neve but I’m a slowburn truther and just seeing the small interactions and dialogues Lucanis has with others abt rook, and the act 2-act 3 end missions it’s obvious Lucanis loves Rook. Plus I also love Spite. The slowburn and softness of his romance has me in a chokehold I'm ngl LMFAO 💀
Sadly, I read that his romance is permanently locked out if you don't save Treviso. Strangely enough, you can still romance Neve if you don't save Minrathous... And this guy was the one who told you to go where you can...and then turns around and says nope! :(
Yes...and the baffling moment is this guy romances Neve either way, but has no time to romance you! I still find that mechanic weird. This cutscene is the aftermath of choosing to save a different city, and I kid you not...I was hoping, hoping! that maybe I could debunk that his romance won't be locked out if you don't do Treviso. But yeah, sadly it is indeed locked out. :( So now I had to hear him talk about Neve, plus I moved on to a different romance.
I was having a romance with Lucanis but the guy flirts with Neve all the time, like dude I'm right here. So I couldn't help it and I started a new playthrough as a Mourn Watcher cause I wanted to roleplay a "forbidden" romance with professor Volkarin lol finished it today, I love that man and enjoyed every chat with him and our child Manfred. Seems like I have a thing for necromancers with a funny moustache
@@pikajulie_art The more humanistic reasons as to why Lucanis would romance Neve vs Rook if they don't save Treviso is because while Rook had a very difficult decision and he understood why they'd choose Minrathous, they still chose not to save his city, which hurts but it's understandable if he doesn't want to seek a romance with the person who chose not to save his home city and all those innocent civilians from the blight. Perhaps that just makes him a less forgiving guy than Neve who will still romance Rook if they save Treviso, but he does have a Spite demon in him after all so one could say deep down he's a bit spiteful of the decision despite understanding. Neve on the other hand didn't have to make such a decision and would have been a victim like him if the opposite were true and Rook saved Treviso so it makes sense he could still pursue Neve because she didn't do anything to hurt him. I could go into more detail about why I think Neve may forgive Rook about Minrathous falling vs Lucanis and Treviso but it would probably turn into a very long post about the state of the cities, their attitudes toward it among their general personalities, values and any family there but I'll digress.
@@Rasereda I've been trying to rationalize his romance for days, and I think my own perception boils down to: (1) We only had that actual outburst of Spite during his Bloodbath quest. But previously? All I could remember from Spite was his sleepwalking and Taash talking Spite down...which kind of minimizes the "threat" Spite has over Lucanis. (2) We don't see Rook nor Lucanis actually talk out or reconcile about the whole saving Minrathous over Treviso decision, only after the Bloodbath quest start where a prompt says "Lucanis is learning to trust you more" along those lines. After this conversation, there could have been an additional dialogue prompt for Rook and Lucanis like "Can we rekindle what we lost?" heart dialogue or something, similar to romancing a Hardened Neve. Rook is trying their best to make things right, amidst the baggage and everything. But the sad part is, what follows after the Act 1 decision is the banter of Neve and Lucanis flirting--so it's immersion breaking at some point. (3) Neve and Rook are both victims of the harsh choice imo, but Rook is the one who made the call since they're the leader. Talking to an NPC Antivan Crow in Treviso Markets will mention that they are grateful to Rook because they saved Minrathous as their niece was there. This was the only NPC who actually thanked Rook; the Crows basically hated Rook (well, at least my Crow Rook LOL). I guess what bothered me with the Act 1 aftermath is how almost how the people blame Rook: Rook takes the baggage, but then there's minimal interactions with the companions that asks Rook, "How are you doing after all this?" Neve doesn't have a talk with Rook after the choice, stating like "I know you sacrificed Treviso...but I will be there for you since you were there for me" along those lines. What I got afterwards was her companion side quest, "Let's go visit Dock Town!" I guess it's like, Rook just solves problems of others...but there are rare interactions with companions trying to help Rook deal with the burden of Rook's choices. [Sorry comment got long...haha. I love Lucanis' romance, but I still find the consequences inequitable without a proper build up I guess.]
@@pikajulie_art I think it would be less bad if Lucanis and Neve were not a possible couple. If you're playing a Shadow Dragon Rook is even worse. Why does Lucanis spites you for saving your own city but not Neve when both Rook and Neve were in the exact same position? It just rubs salt on the wounds of the player. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the lucanis romance being locked away if you don't save Treviso. I just wished that (1) Neve/Lucanis were not a canon couple and (2) Neve also gets romance-blocked if you don't save Minrathous. Seems only fair.
To be honest, I felt a downgrade in romance development from Inquisition to Veilguard. Less time spent with your romancable companion, very short cutscenes (didn't had time to immerse myself in the romance cutscenes and they were already over...), almost no to none physical interaction (holding hands, reaching for the other, patting the shoulder, hugging, physically supporting during hard times,...) making most of the converstaion with your companion having rook akwardly standing there, not interacting (hell, imagining in Inquisition if your inquisitor would just stand before Varric while he cries after hearing Hawke was dead, instead of holding him in her arms ? That's how I felt when following Bellara for her brother's funeral...). The writting was ok, but somehow I felt less involved than I was in Inquisition. It was too fast, too many things unsaid, little to no difference at all with the dialogues/cutscenes if you decided to romance a companion or not (Romancing Cullen or not gave 2 really different views of him, as you wouldn't have the same cutscenes, and he wouldn't let you so deep into his difficulties), I mean, I watched a playthrough with Davrin romance, and was shocked to see that until the very end of the game (and 15 sec "sex" scene) every single one cutscene with Davrin was the same as in my plathrough, where I romanced Lucanis. Only one cutscene where you kiss Davrin instead of just talking, but that's all. I think, this is the core of what made me feel less involved with my companions : the fact that, whatever you choices, you'd just got to experience the very same relationship whatsoever, just a special cutscene before going for the gods at the very end of the game, and it felt, empty. :/
@@saiseiamarumi7790 I have to agree with you here in terms of the minimal romance. Gosh, I'm relying on bread crumbs finding romance banters...and I have some scheduled uploads related to the Davrin and Lucanis romances haha, just so I can relive the moment outside the game. I'm not really expecting any highly spicy or explicit scenes, but just actual intimate moments with your paramour. Like in DAO, where you can kiss Alistair, Morrigan, Leliana, and Zevran anytime...then they even express their affections to you through gifts! Or in DA2, where the companion romance banters are so rich, Fenris would deny Isabela's advances, and this is on top of the kisses and romantic stuff. You also get some variety of rival/friendship romance with the companions. In DAI, you also have your sweet or comedic romance moments. Cassandra getting flustered, Bull softening when you give the dragon bone, then the affection words of Kadan, Amatus, and Vhenan. Although Solas didn't have any spicy stuff, the emotional connection and frequent kisses really made up for it. But in DATV...gosh it's more telling than showing. And I was not a fan of the "kiss gets interrupted by something" moments because these are reserved for high school romances tbh. I assumed every companion are adults who has mature romances...but yeah, to the best of my knowledge, only Emmrich and Davrin were written well in terms of the romance parts. Emmrich really cares for you in his own kind way, Davrin expresses directly that he likes you. Meanwhile Lucanis...I feel bad for Rook 'cause it's like Rook has to chase Lucanis, but Lucanis instantly jumps to Neve like "oh hey, I forgot the Minrathous vs Treviso stuff so we can date now!" I'm just relying on headcanons at this point...haha.
I have enjoyed the game, but I do agree. The Cullen and Dorian romances weren't necessarily super long, but they felt richer and there was more overall connection. Even the little bit of the Inquisitor jumping into Cullen's arms after defeating Corypheus felt special. I hope they add more to the game or make a DLC that shows a more connected relationship with the romance of your choice. I still love Lucanis, but the character that made me "Awwww" the most was best boy Manfred.
I am romancing Emmrich and sometimes I forget that we are in a relationship 😅 And I do not even understand which stage we are on. In DAI I romanced Cassandra and she admitted loving the Inquisitor later in the game and it wasn't rushed (she has three admissions in total and all of them have different context which I realised only when I started comparing previous romances with the Veilguard!). But here even Harding asks why Rook and Emmrich are in hurry. It's so strange. I am confused. There are problems with pacing, I guess. Morrigan had her stages too.
@@Tito_michi I had issues like that in Inquisition, last time I romanced Josephine. I .. almost facepalmed myself when Josephine was like "Wait, we're really flirting ?" I mean, yeah Josephine. How come Leliana is aware more then you about it, is beyond me. And then was also duel part which .. why would someone risk their life like that if they weren't serious ? I liked the romance, don't get me wrong, but BioWare was reaaaally not convincing me there that anybody would just go like "Oh meh, he went to duel over my engagement. Must be silly fling, that's all. Men die for stupid things like that." and don't get me started on Trespasser where you get nothing from this romance really in terms of special cutscenes. Like you don't even get memo if you do anything good with Josephine, and Leliana is your ONLY hint. I shouldn't have to go to miss deranged murderer to know if I am going anywhere with romance ..
My dreamcouple still strife and emmrich. The sweetest Cutscene in this game that contains romancing companions when he ask you which date option is the best.😂
if you save Minrathous you're completely locked out of Lucanis' romance. Which is a slap in the face. Because the pop up will tell you he no longer has time for a romance with you, but will turn around and have one with Neve. At least if you choose to save Treviso Neve will still romance you (albeit it will be slower going). His romance felt like it was very lacking, so add that along with the nonsense of not being able to romance him if he's hardened, I have to wonder if they just weren't able to fully complete Lucanis' romance and we were left with this.
@DracoAngel87 I finished his romance and it felt pretty good, I do agree thst it's unfair you can still romance Neve and not Lucanis, but perhaps it's a bug or just something we haven't discovered
@@DannyRayqu Not a bug unfortunately. There's a pop-up now telling you you're locked out of his romance, which says "he doesn't have time" for one. Which becomes a slap in the face when he apparently still has time for Neve though lol. Devs probably could have worded that better...
You have to save Minrathous instead of Treviso to get this scene. This is his "hardened" scene. Fair warning: if you're planning on romancing him you cannot get this scene since you have to save Treviso to romance Lucanis.
I know this might put me in a bad light, but I'm a very jealous gamer - and I HATE that Neve-Lucanis couple storyline in the game. Those flirty conversations between them-eeewww! And he won't romance Rook unless Treviso is rescued, but then he runs after Neve like a deer in rut. Especially since the relationship with Rook (until shortly before the end) is as sensual as 2 hours of math in high school - but his affection for Neve comes across as more intense. Bioware really shouldn't have bothered with this and would have been better off adding conversation and kissing options like in previous DA games. For this reason alone, I would love to completely remove Neve from my group and the lighthouse - but I can't 🙄
I think him and Neve are cute, but it definitely feels like the devs put more time into their romance then Lucanis's one with us. Which is kinda a slap in the face when I wanna play my fantasy self-indulge game yknow? If Lucanis's romance with Rook was more fleshed out and didn't feel like they gutted it right before release for some reason, it probably wouldn't feel as bad. I mean, people who romance Neve don't seem to feel this way, like I've mostly seen people complain about Lucanis going after her and not the other way around. Which makes sense, because her romance with Rook, even if still lackluster in comparison with previous Bioware games, has more meat to it- she's a little softer in dialogue, you get the Trouble nickname, she doesn't cut off the romance with you only to get with another companion, and she actually seems interested before, like, the last scene. It doesn't feel like you're a second choice _during_ her romance, so it doesn't feel like such a slap in the face when you see her flirt with Lucanis instead in a second run.
I'm glad I'm not the only jealous gamer over Lucanis and Neve getting together if you don't romance him (or her, but I care more about him :P). I romanced him first, of course, and had no idea they'd get together because I never brought them along together in my party. Then I found out they did, before starting my next playthrough for a different romance, and read that if you save Minrathous instead they don't, which is obviously a lie. But I did save Minrathous... then reloaded because I COULD NOT have Lucanis mad at me. I wish there was also a way to miss his "making dessert for Neve" scene, or you know... be an ass... which I wouldn't be able to do because I can't be mean. XP I agree that they should have added kissing and more conversations and such, plus given him - and probably everyone - more romance only content. It would be a bit more fulfilling. I'm still probably going to romance Lucanis again... and again... and again.
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
it's SO interesting that if you don't save Treviso that he wants to separate from Spite omg i wonder if it really ties into the mind prison mission you only get when saving Treviso. its like an unhardened Lucanis (especially romanced) truly sees the value in Spite and once they learn to work together, he basically will stay with him and it's like he sees it as the best option for a romanced Rook to be safe because both he and Spite care about you so you will be protected no matter what. but when he's hardened and you don't get the mission to help him work with Spite, there's part of him thats scared Spite will hurt his family and Neve. really makes it harder to wanna save Minrathous tbh lol the mind prison mission is probably his best companion quest
You think so? I found the mind prison quest very lame.
What's also interesting is that if you do save Treviso and romance/befriend Lucanis he and Rook have a good influence on Spite. Which turns him back into a spirit. If you take Lucanis with you for the final fight there is party banter with Solas. He calls Spite a spirit of determination and offers to separate him from Lucanis. Spite gets angry, tells Solas that he hurt Rook and lied. The end game card also tells you that they work together for the future. Which made me choose to never save Minrathous 😅🤣
For all those annoyed by the Lucanis Love Lockout situation…me too BUT what IF they wrote it this way because of Spite. There’s a reason Spite connected to Lucanis. What if the SPITEfull side of Lucanis is why players can be locked out of a romance if Trevino isn’t saved? Out of Spite, Lucanis is like 🤬 you forever. 😊
@@Shelbzz I'm all for this reasoning, especially sacrificing Treviso as an Antivan Crow rook. He's *really* angry at Rook so it was an interesting scene to witness. But when I watched a Shadow Dragon playthrough, I don't think Lucanis nor Viago was that angry...so it kind of contradicts on how Lucanis should be portrayed as spiteful.
We don't get to see Spite being a threat before the Act 1 choice, so that's what's confusing because if we do save Treviso and get to see more of Spite? We just see the demon being a bit comedic like taking Lucanis sleepwalking and Taash talking down Spite like a misbehaving pet. It would be more appropriate to see the threat of Spite like during the end of his Bloodbath quest. Have more "!" surprise moments in the lighthouse where Spite actually bothers Rook, other than showing Lucanis being obsessed with coffee.
I just think it hurt him like crazy and he’s unable to cope with it, unable to feel he can do anything right. He hated the idea of being an abomination because he had a standard to hold towards Caterina and the crows and anyone he cared for. Treviso becoming blighted kind of removes anyway he’d be able to do a full self healing journey, and definitely would be unable to come to terms or cope with the existence of Spite. When you save Treviso its one less stress off of him making him able to explore and actually reason with Spite. Also, an interesting theory someone I saw on tiktok make was that due to you being there at the Ossuary and helping and being the leading figure, Spite and Lucanis both quickly take a liking towards you whether its friendship-wise or romantic. Spite wanting to talk to Rook, demanding to talk to them as if Spite believes they have the ability to help Spite. Maybe their aura or smth. Anyway they also brought up the fact that the difference in a Lucanis and Rook romance and a Lucanis and Neve romance its that he feels he has more to lose when in a relationship with Rook so it scares him, he’s afraid to want Rook because the consequences are more dire, more to lose. Spite is also shown to like Rook way more than Neve, considering Rook is a lot more accepting of him and his presence. Someone brought up the fact that when asked about being in a romance with Rook, Lucanis expresses he doesn't understand what Rook sees in him and he’s greatful (I may edit this and do a direct quote but its relatively close). When asked about Neve, the only thing he says is “we’re seeing where it goes.” There’s a distinct difference between them I think.
Holy yap my bad 😭
@@bussydestroyer5000It's alright! I'm not on tiktok, so reading the theory is a great insight. Also, I moved on from the Lucanis choice...😆 Basically romancing Davrin whenever I save Minrathous at this point. Gameplay wise, the player has a lot to lose tbh if you save Minrathous vs saving Treviso because of (1) the lock out romance, and (2) deciding the Archon doesn't mean much for non-Shadow Dragon Rooks (Dorian becomes the default if you save Treviso anyway). The Viper can still live as long as you progress through Neve's quest. I felt like most of the coping for the Lucanis romance is because of the minimal reactivity and romance interactions we see in game, rather than what is implied happening behind the scenes/codex entries.
@@pikajulie_art So true, plus the common misconception that you needed to save Minrathous to get the best ending. I personally can’t find a reason to save Minrathous since you can still easily romance Neve if saving Treviso, and seeing Lucanis that hurt is so sad. I rather Neve be angry and I reconcile her trust through action.
I was gonna try to romance Davrin or Neve but I’m a slowburn truther and just seeing the small interactions and dialogues Lucanis has with others abt rook, and the act 2-act 3 end missions it’s obvious Lucanis loves Rook. Plus I also love Spite. The slowburn and softness of his romance has me in a chokehold I'm ngl LMFAO 💀
Sadly, I read that his romance is permanently locked out if you don't save Treviso. Strangely enough, you can still romance Neve if you don't save Minrathous...
And this guy was the one who told you to go where you can...and then turns around and says nope! :(
Yes...and the baffling moment is this guy romances Neve either way, but has no time to romance you! I still find that mechanic weird. This cutscene is the aftermath of choosing to save a different city, and I kid you not...I was hoping, hoping! that maybe I could debunk that his romance won't be locked out if you don't do Treviso. But yeah, sadly it is indeed locked out. :( So now I had to hear him talk about Neve, plus I moved on to a different romance.
I was having a romance with Lucanis but the guy flirts with Neve all the time, like dude I'm right here. So I couldn't help it and I started a new playthrough as a Mourn Watcher cause I wanted to roleplay a "forbidden" romance with professor Volkarin lol finished it today, I love that man and enjoyed every chat with him and our child Manfred. Seems like I have a thing for necromancers with a funny moustache
@@pikajulie_art The more humanistic reasons as to why Lucanis would romance Neve vs Rook if they don't save Treviso is because while Rook had a very difficult decision and he understood why they'd choose Minrathous, they still chose not to save his city, which hurts but it's understandable if he doesn't want to seek a romance with the person who chose not to save his home city and all those innocent civilians from the blight. Perhaps that just makes him a less forgiving guy than Neve who will still romance Rook if they save Treviso, but he does have a Spite demon in him after all so one could say deep down he's a bit spiteful of the decision despite understanding. Neve on the other hand didn't have to make such a decision and would have been a victim like him if the opposite were true and Rook saved Treviso so it makes sense he could still pursue Neve because she didn't do anything to hurt him. I could go into more detail about why I think Neve may forgive Rook about Minrathous falling vs Lucanis and Treviso but it would probably turn into a very long post about the state of the cities, their attitudes toward it among their general personalities, values and any family there but I'll digress.
@@Rasereda I've been trying to rationalize his romance for days, and I think my own perception boils down to:
(1) We only had that actual outburst of Spite during his Bloodbath quest. But previously? All I could remember from Spite was his sleepwalking and Taash talking Spite down...which kind of minimizes the "threat" Spite has over Lucanis.
(2) We don't see Rook nor Lucanis actually talk out or reconcile about the whole saving Minrathous over Treviso decision, only after the Bloodbath quest start where a prompt says "Lucanis is learning to trust you more" along those lines. After this conversation, there could have been an additional dialogue prompt for Rook and Lucanis like "Can we rekindle what we lost?" heart dialogue or something, similar to romancing a Hardened Neve. Rook is trying their best to make things right, amidst the baggage and everything. But the sad part is, what follows after the Act 1 decision is the banter of Neve and Lucanis flirting--so it's immersion breaking at some point.
(3) Neve and Rook are both victims of the harsh choice imo, but Rook is the one who made the call since they're the leader. Talking to an NPC Antivan Crow in Treviso Markets will mention that they are grateful to Rook because they saved Minrathous as their niece was there. This was the only NPC who actually thanked Rook; the Crows basically hated Rook (well, at least my Crow Rook LOL). I guess what bothered me with the Act 1 aftermath is how almost how the people blame Rook: Rook takes the baggage, but then there's minimal interactions with the companions that asks Rook, "How are you doing after all this?" Neve doesn't have a talk with Rook after the choice, stating like "I know you sacrificed Treviso...but I will be there for you since you were there for me" along those lines. What I got afterwards was her companion side quest, "Let's go visit Dock Town!" I guess it's like, Rook just solves problems of others...but there are rare interactions with companions trying to help Rook deal with the burden of Rook's choices.
[Sorry comment got long...haha. I love Lucanis' romance, but I still find the consequences inequitable without a proper build up I guess.]
@@pikajulie_art I think it would be less bad if Lucanis and Neve were not a possible couple. If you're playing a Shadow Dragon Rook is even worse. Why does Lucanis spites you for saving your own city but not Neve when both Rook and Neve were in the exact same position? It just rubs salt on the wounds of the player.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the lucanis romance being locked away if you don't save Treviso. I just wished that (1) Neve/Lucanis were not a canon couple and (2) Neve also gets romance-blocked if you don't save Minrathous. Seems only fair.
Its so fucked up that they wont let you keep spite unless you dont help neve
Consequences, I guess.
To be honest, I felt a downgrade in romance development from Inquisition to Veilguard. Less time spent with your romancable companion, very short cutscenes (didn't had time to immerse myself in the romance cutscenes and they were already over...), almost no to none physical interaction (holding hands, reaching for the other, patting the shoulder, hugging, physically supporting during hard times,...) making most of the converstaion with your companion having rook akwardly standing there, not interacting (hell, imagining in Inquisition if your inquisitor would just stand before Varric while he cries after hearing Hawke was dead, instead of holding him in her arms ? That's how I felt when following Bellara for her brother's funeral...). The writting was ok, but somehow I felt less involved than I was in Inquisition. It was too fast, too many things unsaid, little to no difference at all with the dialogues/cutscenes if you decided to romance a companion or not (Romancing Cullen or not gave 2 really different views of him, as you wouldn't have the same cutscenes, and he wouldn't let you so deep into his difficulties), I mean, I watched a playthrough with Davrin romance, and was shocked to see that until the very end of the game (and 15 sec "sex" scene) every single one cutscene with Davrin was the same as in my plathrough, where I romanced Lucanis. Only one cutscene where you kiss Davrin instead of just talking, but that's all.
I think, this is the core of what made me feel less involved with my companions : the fact that, whatever you choices, you'd just got to experience the very same relationship whatsoever, just a special cutscene before going for the gods at the very end of the game, and it felt, empty. :/
@@saiseiamarumi7790 I have to agree with you here in terms of the minimal romance. Gosh, I'm relying on bread crumbs finding romance banters...and I have some scheduled uploads related to the Davrin and Lucanis romances haha, just so I can relive the moment outside the game. I'm not really expecting any highly spicy or explicit scenes, but just actual intimate moments with your paramour.
Like in DAO, where you can kiss Alistair, Morrigan, Leliana, and Zevran anytime...then they even express their affections to you through gifts! Or in DA2, where the companion romance banters are so rich, Fenris would deny Isabela's advances, and this is on top of the kisses and romantic stuff. You also get some variety of rival/friendship romance with the companions. In DAI, you also have your sweet or comedic romance moments. Cassandra getting flustered, Bull softening when you give the dragon bone, then the affection words of Kadan, Amatus, and Vhenan. Although Solas didn't have any spicy stuff, the emotional connection and frequent kisses really made up for it.
But in DATV...gosh it's more telling than showing. And I was not a fan of the "kiss gets interrupted by something" moments because these are reserved for high school romances tbh. I assumed every companion are adults who has mature romances...but yeah, to the best of my knowledge, only Emmrich and Davrin were written well in terms of the romance parts. Emmrich really cares for you in his own kind way, Davrin expresses directly that he likes you. Meanwhile Lucanis...I feel bad for Rook 'cause it's like Rook has to chase Lucanis, but Lucanis instantly jumps to Neve like "oh hey, I forgot the Minrathous vs Treviso stuff so we can date now!"
I'm just relying on headcanons at this point...haha.
I have enjoyed the game, but I do agree. The Cullen and Dorian romances weren't necessarily super long, but they felt richer and there was more overall connection. Even the little bit of the Inquisitor jumping into Cullen's arms after defeating Corypheus felt special. I hope they add more to the game or make a DLC that shows a more connected relationship with the romance of your choice. I still love Lucanis, but the character that made me "Awwww" the most was best boy Manfred.
@@eurojack44Oh, I love Manfred too, but I also love Assan, he’s probably the reason I romanced Davrin) 😂
I am romancing Emmrich and sometimes I forget that we are in a relationship 😅 And I do not even understand which stage we are on. In DAI I romanced Cassandra and she admitted loving the Inquisitor later in the game and it wasn't rushed (she has three admissions in total and all of them have different context which I realised only when I started comparing previous romances with the Veilguard!). But here even Harding asks why Rook and Emmrich are in hurry. It's so strange. I am confused. There are problems with pacing, I guess.
Morrigan had her stages too.
@@Tito_michi I had issues like that in Inquisition, last time I romanced Josephine. I .. almost facepalmed myself when Josephine was like "Wait, we're really flirting ?" I mean, yeah Josephine. How come Leliana is aware more then you about it, is beyond me. And then was also duel part which .. why would someone risk their life like that if they weren't serious ? I liked the romance, don't get me wrong, but BioWare was reaaaally not convincing me there that anybody would just go like "Oh meh, he went to duel over my engagement. Must be silly fling, that's all. Men die for stupid things like that." and don't get me started on Trespasser where you get nothing from this romance really in terms of special cutscenes. Like you don't even get memo if you do anything good with Josephine, and Leliana is your ONLY hint. I shouldn't have to go to miss deranged murderer to know if I am going anywhere with romance ..
My dreamcouple still strife and emmrich. The sweetest Cutscene in this game that contains romancing companions when he ask you which date option is the best.😂
Wait does it actually lock you out of romance? The can states it but make it harder for him to like you or romance you
if you save Minrathous you're completely locked out of Lucanis' romance. Which is a slap in the face. Because the pop up will tell you he no longer has time for a romance with you, but will turn around and have one with Neve. At least if you choose to save Treviso Neve will still romance you (albeit it will be slower going). His romance felt like it was very lacking, so add that along with the nonsense of not being able to romance him if he's hardened, I have to wonder if they just weren't able to fully complete Lucanis' romance and we were left with this.
@DracoAngel87 I finished his romance and it felt pretty good, I do agree thst it's unfair you can still romance Neve and not Lucanis, but perhaps it's a bug or just something we haven't discovered
@@DannyRayquIsn't he possessed by a demon of spite? Maybe that has something to do with his failed romance
@@theelderworm9134 you know what, that makes perfect sense, spite doesn't become determination until both accept themselves
@@DannyRayqu Not a bug unfortunately. There's a pop-up now telling you you're locked out of his romance, which says "he doesn't have time" for one. Which becomes a slap in the face when he apparently still has time for Neve though lol. Devs probably could have worded that better...
How do I get this cutscene?
Has something to do with your decision in Act 1 (if you haven't reached that part yet!). This cutscene happens in Act 3 as an aftermath.
You have to save Minrathous instead of Treviso to get this scene. This is his "hardened" scene. Fair warning: if you're planning on romancing him you cannot get this scene since you have to save Treviso to romance Lucanis.
But why does he want to separate himself
It'd be safer. Spite is still a demon after all, you never know
I know this might put me in a bad light, but I'm a very jealous gamer - and I HATE that Neve-Lucanis couple storyline in the game. Those flirty conversations between them-eeewww! And he won't romance Rook unless Treviso is rescued, but then he runs after Neve like a deer in rut. Especially since the relationship with Rook (until shortly before the end) is as sensual as 2 hours of math in high school - but his affection for Neve comes across as more intense. Bioware really shouldn't have bothered with this and would have been better off adding conversation and kissing options like in previous DA games. For this reason alone, I would love to completely remove Neve from my group and the lighthouse - but I can't 🙄
I think him and Neve are cute, but it definitely feels like the devs put more time into their romance then Lucanis's one with us. Which is kinda a slap in the face when I wanna play my fantasy self-indulge game yknow?
If Lucanis's romance with Rook was more fleshed out and didn't feel like they gutted it right before release for some reason, it probably wouldn't feel as bad. I mean, people who romance Neve don't seem to feel this way, like I've mostly seen people complain about Lucanis going after her and not the other way around. Which makes sense, because her romance with Rook, even if still lackluster in comparison with previous Bioware games, has more meat to it- she's a little softer in dialogue, you get the Trouble nickname, she doesn't cut off the romance with you only to get with another companion, and she actually seems interested before, like, the last scene. It doesn't feel like you're a second choice _during_ her romance, so it doesn't feel like such a slap in the face when you see her flirt with Lucanis instead in a second run.
They did shaft his writer during development so there's that lol
Yeah, I agree. At least they could have made her a an option for the guaranteed death at the game end.
@ Exactly my thoughts, thank you! Wish I could choose her for the second team at the end, not only Harding or Davrin.
I'm glad I'm not the only jealous gamer over Lucanis and Neve getting together if you don't romance him (or her, but I care more about him :P). I romanced him first, of course, and had no idea they'd get together because I never brought them along together in my party. Then I found out they did, before starting my next playthrough for a different romance, and read that if you save Minrathous instead they don't, which is obviously a lie. But I did save Minrathous... then reloaded because I COULD NOT have Lucanis mad at me. I wish there was also a way to miss his "making dessert for Neve" scene, or you know... be an ass... which I wouldn't be able to do because I can't be mean. XP I agree that they should have added kissing and more conversations and such, plus given him - and probably everyone - more romance only content. It would be a bit more fulfilling. I'm still probably going to romance Lucanis again... and again... and again.
so we cant convince him to keep spite? I have to romance him for that to happen huh?
Not really iirc, you just need to choose his city to keep Spite.
@@pikajulie_art Can confirm my first playthrough was a Davrin romance and I never got this scene, him and Spite were chill