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Whethen you did her quests before Minranthous was attacked and if you flirted with her all this time

Neve can still be romanced even if you save Treviso. It's just you can't encourage her to be a "hero" in her personal quest. Lucanis' points are much more valid. Minrathous has magical defenses and stronger fortifications. They've also never fallen to any enemy in history, and they have plenty of practice defending themselves due to the constant attacks by the Qunari.

​@BelieveIt1051 Neve can become a hero. Also mirathos would have been taken over by the venitori because its such a powerful city that would have spell disaster for everywhere esle down the line

Most people (including myself) find the consequences inequitable when Lucanis willingly commits a romance with Neve if you save Minrathous. Either Neve should not be romanceable too, or Lucanis will not romance anyone at all. Because he's the only companion with that unique romance mechanic. Shadow Dragon Rook mages are of a similar background with Neve, so it also does not make sense why Lucanis will still pick Neve if an SD Rook saves their city too. Rook is the one carrying the blame and burden of responsibility for leading the team, while Neve only tags along. It also doesn't make sense when Lucanis willingly dates Neve in her favourite fish try stand (acquired through a cutscene with Emmrich), when saving Minrathous is why Lucanis got hardened and unromanceable in the first place; shouldn't he be more spiteful that Minrathous still stand? Along those lines.

​@@pikajulie_art This ! I was particularly disappointed with what they did with the Lucanis romance (not to mention Lucanis and Spite). I wanted to romance him, but my Rook is a shadow dragon elf mage. He comes from Minrathous and knows Tarquin and Viper. How was I supposed to choose Treviso over Minrathous? I told Lucanis that I had to save my people and even Viago told me he understood. After that it was over with Lucanis. The problem isn't his character or how he handles things (that's understandable), but the fact that he gets straight with Neve. I tried everything to fix things and then Lucanis comes to talk to me about Neve. I mean what??? Finally i choose Davrin and i'm happy with that but man, what the hell ?

@hannahhobnob20 I agree, that's why I wasn't upset when he didn't want to romance you.

@@Akhenas I understand you but, in my first gameplay I was an elf shadowdragon and I choose Treviso anyway, for several reasons, it's called analitic thinking, Treviso don't have an army, only have assassins, Treviso don't have walls, it's a city made like a jewel not a fortress, most of the buildings have more glass than rock in it xD, also the canals, that was what made me choose Treviso all the time, Polluted water means NO ONE will survive eventually, if you want an idea of what polluted canals mean look at Dresden, it was a German city attacked by the USA and British army in WW2 they created a storm of fire so raw that people jumped into the canals of the city to save themselves only to get boiled in the water cause of the high temperature, (in this case it would be blight). Having Dresden in mind and seeing the similarities between the two cities I chose Treviso and I never regretted the choice, because it is the most logical one whether you are ShadowDragon or Crow. Also Minratthous has an economic system based on slavery, as much as this game refuses to show it, having slaves is totally legal and well seen, so, in my personal opinion and putting my emotions in play I choose to burn the whole city in every game, I'm going for the 4th time I choose Treviso, whether I have romance with Lucanis or not.

And I will say that Neve was furious at me (understandably) for saving Treviso instead of Minrathous, but hey, Treviso doesn't have an army of mages that can shoot ice balls at the dragon or even a floating palace that can shoot magic at will, Minrathous is a goddamn fortress, so hell yeah, I expected more of them defending our city (when I was a ShadowDragon.) And I read in these comments that early guides said it was better to save Minrathous... xD what shitty early guides and how they mislead people.

the emoji choice here is sending me (i understand)

@@turquoisemaple I’m just trying to laugh it off, because it baffles me that a seemingly small thing like this causes so much emotion 😸

Seriously? Being a Shadow Dragon, he won't even consider you? There's a whole double standard here in how only he gets romance locked if you don't save his city. I didn't know that as I plowed through release weekend and was pretty upset I'd shut out all other romances only to realize no matter how high our bond, he would never romance my Rook. I romanced Neve to spite him. 😂

@@Kikimonsterbooks i romanced him as a Shadow Dragon. But you needed to save Treviso to be able to do it.

Mary Kirby was the author of Lucanis and seeing how the studio had chop off romance scenes of Lucanis and how they fired Mary kirby several month before the release, it smells like a vendetta to me, they fucked up the character she masterfully wrote by cutting scenes they already had done so people would think it was lazy writing, but mary kirby has been with bioware since before Origins and is responsible for writing several memorable characters in the entire saga so, bioware can go F themselves with what they have done to mary kirby, pathetic.

​@martulina16 that makes sense now

@@martulina16 She also wrote Varric .. I do not understand vendetta .. but given how I witnessed Avellone trying to sabotage Obsidian all the time .. one can think that vendetta against Kirby led to axing entire of Act I in Veilguard, where we were supposed to work alongside Varric chasing Solas ... I just don't know who in BioWare could have had vendetta against Mary Kirby. Honestly this game could use BioWare updating over missing content, especially since we won't get dlc's apparentely ...

She accepted the contract which is a crows responsibility of their own. But as a crow she should be devoted to her faction.

😂😂😂😂

Lol exactly

The writing in this game is beyond shit

In fairness, the Crows have always been pretty trash. They did fail to kill the Hero and the Champion, and even just Alistair without the Hero, if Darkspawn Chronicles is to be taken seriously. But on their home turf? Yeah the Crows are supposed to be highly organized and deadly, which is why Antiva relies on them as its own military force. They are supposed to be able to come together and defend the country if needed. Yet in FailHard they can't even kill a few tal-vashoth.

@@asmalltalk This! And like to be a bit critical, romancing Anders with Justice feels more fleshed out than Lucanis with Spite. I didn't like how Spite's interactions with companions is reduced to being talked down like a misbehaving pet. It's hard to empathize with an abomination being downplayed. Compare that to how companions in DA2 reacted to Justice taking over Anders almost unaliving a mage during a quest, or when Justice took over during the Legacy DLC. I'm still biased for romancing Lucanis solely because of his Antivan Crow background, but I would romance Anders over him anytime--and yeah, my canon romance in DA2 is still Fenris for that rewarding slow burn romance!

@pikajulie_art hard agree on Spite being heavily underutilized! Also-from the get-go Spite is more interested in Rook than Lucanis (and even interjects himself into the last romance scene). There is so much wasted potential for drama-Lucanis afraid to touch Rook cuz Spite might act out & hurt them…anything would be better than what we get. They managed to water down a character with the coolest backstory into a bland coffee addict whom you essentially wear down into a relationship. And you aren’t even sure you’re actually IN one because of zero physical contact or conversations about his feelings up until the very end where his love declaration comes out of nowhere since the game doesn’t show us that he’s been struggling with his affections.

@@asmalltalk To be precise, there are conversations about Lucanis and Rook romance after you confirm it (me personally was taking only Lucanis and Emmerich in my party and they're talking about it), but totally agree, we're robbed with this romance. It should be much, _much_ better.

Well said and he go's get with Neve

To be fair, lucanis was just released from his prison when he comes back his grandmother has been kidnapped, and he's an abomination, and his city has been blighted. He's not as pragmatic as Neve is. His romance is harder to get going anyway.

It's the dagger that makes the difference, not Rook. Without the dagger on the field the dragon never lands. An Archdemon that stays aloft fucks up any city it attacks without fail. There is plenty of dumb writing in the game but that particular detail seemed reasonable enough in a world where a party of three can fight a landed dragon.

⁠@@OnesieTwosBut the faction leaders don’t know what the dagger does, do they? Are they entirely sure that the dagger will make the dragon land? I played that part too and I see no dialogue nor hint that the faction leaders know about Solas’ dagger at that point. It seems like they are just blaming Rook just for not being there, which sucks. In their position, it’s entirely their responsibility that they are powerless to stop the dragon, not the absence of a junior member of their faction.

@@bismarck5537 Certainly. I don't recall either faction acknowledging the incredible, magic circumstances that lead to the BBEG sending their dragon to tangle in range of the party instead of keeping a safe distance. The sentiment is clearly "You chose them over us, now we're fucked!" I have no idea how widespread knowledge of this McGuffin is among our allies, and I don't remember if the group KNEW that the dagger could provoke the dragon. All I meant was that, regardless of contrivance or whatever, the plot dagger is the only reason our small party of Bioware weirdos affected who won just by being there.

The reason why Rook would make a difference is because she had the lyrium dagger. At no point in both saving Treviso or Minrathous Rook and her team were able to reach the dragon, they can only do it when Rook shows the dagger to Ghilanain, that`s when the dragon lands and they can hurt it. In both scenarios, the shadow dragons and the crows says that the dragon only kept flying, destroying and blighting the city outside of their reach. That`s why Rook ideas and presence makes the difference.

@@AdanTamai I've seen people make that argument and my question is - how would they have any way of knowing that? It seems like the only one recognizing that is the player. In any case, why blame Rook if it was the dagger, not Rook, making the difference? Could they have thrown it to Lucanis before he left and he could have saved his city instead? In this particular case, where Viago says "You always think of something" - that seems like a really weak line to me. Who am I, Sherlock Holmes? If Rook has demonstrated their brilliant strategic thinking or spontaneous ideas that actually worked before I must have missed it.

This was my second playthrough with the same Rook, so I was curious with the reactions. I was IRL mad at Viago and Lucanis, that the red dialogue reflected my own reaction towards them haha. I'm currently on my third playthrough with a different Rook, and no one really knew what the lyrium dagger does for this Act, except it was important to Solas and the two Evanuris. The dragon only got down when Ghilan'nain commanded it to retrieve Solas's dagger. I'm likewise criticizing Viago's reasoning that my Crow Rook "always thinks of something," which is honestly baffling since I'm a junior Crow compared to the Fifth Talon and First Talon's grandson. Almost all of the Crows in the Cantori Diamond hated me throughout the game until I finish the "For the Love of Treviso" questline. Another critical point from me is, so I saved either city in different playthroughs, it is always Ghilan'nain who shows up commanding a dragon in either Treviso or Minrathous. Ghilan'nain is more obsessed with the lyrium dagger over Elgar'nan, so why is it that Ghil is exactly on the city where Rook saves it? Shouldn't it make sense that Elgar'nan and Ghilan'nain are on either city too? What if Elgar'nan is not as reckless as Ghilan'nain to command a dragon down to the ground just to receive a lyrium dagger? Fast forward to consequences, Minrathous still gets blighted in the end, so it also doesn't make more sense why we have to choose between Treviso and Minrathous too. Choosing Minrathous means: (1) You get 1 less romance option before you meet all companions, (2) Choosing an Archon for a city you don't even affiliate with (except if you're an SD), (3) You get two blighted cities, (4) The Crows lose more essential NPCs like quest givers and a new Crow house, (5) SD don't even actively participate in the Last Gambit. Earlier guides say saving Minrathous is the "correct choice" to get the best ending, but my experience is otherwise. 🤕

@@AdanTamai That's meta knowledge based on how foolish Ghil would react to Rook and the dagger. There's no way any of the characters would know Rook could draw Ghil's attention at all, let alone get the dragon to land.

And funny enough, can't Lucanis fly and have Spite pull things from the fade like a rift mage? He's better equipped to handle that dragon than we were, or did the writers forget that too? On top of that, them conquering the seat of the magic empire should also kickstart the final act- if we're being realistic. Cuz El and Ghil could get the Venatori to use Minrathous resources to raise an army that would do most of their heavy lifting. I already said this game was full of weak writing, but even saving Minrathous makes more sense narratively. Especially with Treviso having no strategic value for this war against the Evanuris. We stop them from taking the city one time, they learn from their mistakes, pivot, rally and conspire before coming back stronger and actually succeeding in taking Minrathous in the final act while we're stuck in a fade prison.

That's the conversation that you get if you help Minrathous as a crow. They are mad at you

@@aresrodriguez8800 If you choose Minrathous in general, a prompt where Lucanis will "no longer romance you" will always happen. You just have different reactivities if you're a Shadow Dragon, Crow vs other faction.

Confirming that the "Assan missed you is non-romance specific" but it was so cute I had to add it a bit. I romanced Dav here when...I was still "mourning" when I got locked out of Lucanis for the second playthrough, so I was not taking Neve with me anywhere. 🤣🤣🤣 Thank you for the insight! I just started a new Dwarf Warden Rook playthrough, and I'm definitely feeling the chemistry with Davrin more here. 🥹💜

The inquisitior couldn't be the protagonist due to the inquisition questionable reputation ferelden saw it as a threat and orlais saw it as a useful tool. Also let's not forget their ties to the divine, solas, Rainer, iron bull also doesn't make this group trust worthy