Hi, Danielle's mom and dad. I saw a film long ago about a family that immigrated to the USA and their changes over the years. The narrator said something that I've always remembered. He said, "My grandparents were Italian-Italians. My parents were Italian-Americans. I'm an American-Italian and my kids are American-Americans." Regarding the Italians being shunted into the most difficult and physically demanding jobs, I also remember something that allegedly was said by an Italian man who immigrated to Canada. He learned three things when he got off of the ship. First, the streets were not paved with gold. Second, the streets were not paved at all. Third, he was expected to pave them. Frank Sinatra (Francis Sinatra), Dean Martin (Dino Crocetti), Tony Bennett (Anthony Benedetto), Connie Francis (Concetta Franconero), Frankie Avalon (Francis Avallone), Dion (Dion DiMucci), Annette Funicello, Glen Danzig (Glenn Anzalone), Bobby Darin (Walden Cassotto), Lou Christie (Luigi Sacco), Joe Perry (Joseph Pereira), Steven Tyler (Steven Tallarico), Nicholas Cage (Nicholas Coppola) ... the list goes on. Not all from the 50s and 60s but there were a LOT if Italian-Americans influencing popular culture. And we can't forget Jon Bon Jovi (John Bongiovi).
I hope you know how important you and your channel are. I am a black American, and you have changed my perception of the world forever. You have freed me of very painful shackles I did not know I had. You've empowered me and strengthened me in ways I didn't know I needed. You crushed myths and enlightened truths that I very much needed. I hope you don't let anyone discourge you from your path God gave you to us and gave you your talents of historical reference, courage, communication, and open-mindedness for this reason. You are a powerful force for good, and I thank you very much for all that you do.
Is it crazy to tell you I took a screen shot of this? I always pray for direction, and sometimes am not sure if Im really on the right path. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell me this, you made a huge difference for me!
@@nytn you show better than most people in the US today as "race" is a social construct and just a tool for discrimination and oppression. You are fueling a vital conversation in the US , highly needed. N.1 vid I saw and told you, you are brave ❤️
@@nytn You're brave and honest. I love this channel as well. Thank you very much. It does mean a lot to a lot of us. And it's heartening to read such comments as well. It shows we are not alone!
@@nytn I agree 100% with what he (or she) said. I have enjoyed getting into your videos, as an Armenian-American a lot resonates with me. Keep doing what you are doing!!
@etruscancivilization I never said I didn't love myself. I said she helped change my perception of the world. I am very literate in black history. But she educates you on EVERYONE else's history that came here, and it helps enlighten me on the contextualization of black Americans in this country. Her videos are very powerful and educational, and they come from this very scientific perspective of genealogy, and I respect that very much. I am grateful to have found her channel. She is a blessing.
I have always respected Frank Sinatra as a musician and a civil rights activist. During the late 1950s, he came to Gary, IN to help resolve racial tensions in the city resulting from school integration.
@nytn here is a link to the event when Sinatra came to town. blog.history.in.gov/tag/frank-sinatra/ Let me know if the link got deactivated and I will send it another way.
I remember reading an article that talked about Italian's, Irish and Jews coming to the USA non white and then over time becoming part of the majority of society.
Love the research you put in your videos. This shows the sacrifices that people have always had to make to become successful in the USA. Sinatra was more than just an iconic entertainer.
SPEAKING FOR MYSELF AS A BLACK AMERICAN MALE, FRANK SINATRA IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE HUMAN BEINGS ALONG WITH DEAN MARTIN. TOGETHER WITH BLACK SUPERGREAT SAMMY DAVIS JR. THEY WERE SOME COOL OUTSTANDING MEN!!!!! I THANK GOD FOR THEM AND THEIR PARENTS!!!!!!
@@mylissa2167 I have for sure. Besides the fact that humankind started in Africa, I am white but my biological father's family from Brazil is super-over-mixed. My mom was an Italian woman and my biological father was a Brazilian immigrant who was a mix of White, Black and Gipsy (his father was a mulato) and I came out white. My mom married an Italian man who adopted and raised me but I kept in touch with my Brazilian father and we travelled to Brazil to meet my biological family and they are from the most pale white to the darkest skin shade and they all love each other without any differences. I live in Italy and I identify myself as Italian but I'm very proud of each part of my heritages!
@@mylissa2167 I had responded but RUclips deleted my comment, Idk why. I said of course I have! I'm Italian by mom and adoptive father but my biological father was Brazilian and he was a mix of White, Black and Gipsy and I came out white. But I met my biological family and they are from the most pale white to the darkest skin shade and they all love each other without any differences. I live in Italy, I am Italian but I'm very proud of all my heritages and I know that humankind started in Africa!
While studying in the U.K., I met a number of Italians at university. They were from both northern and southern Itally, Genova to Napoli, and although they got along well while abroad, I could clearly tell amings themselves they made distinctions. Years later, through one of these friends, I met a woman whose family is from near Cuomo (in the north) who married a southerner. All these years (and 3 sons later) her mother was still saying, "Only if she married simeone more suitable". Don't fool yourself, in Italy the divide between northerners and southerners still lives on among some families.
While there was discrimination among the early Italians don't forget that at the same time there was some inclusion of them. I guess because they had the same skin color and features of the English and Dutch!!! Notably in 1776 two men of Italian heritage were among those who signed the declaration of independence. Their names William Paca and Caesar Rodney.
Sinatra also had his dark side, though. After all, how many times was he married? And the ties to the mob that were always hinted about. But he did do a lot of great things and he took care of his friends. He also turned out to be a really good actor as well.
Supposedly Wop came from the Southern Italian word Guappo or Guappu, which derived from Spanish, when the area was ruled by Spain. This makes some sense, since in Sicilian at least the initial G would be silent, so Guappu would sound like Wappu, and in Neapolitano the final vowel sound would be dropped.
Danielle , I honestly can`t tell you what my Italian mother`s opinion on race was , except that she married my father who was quite liberal , ( my mother died when I was 5 ) My mother`s oldest sister would say that when a reporter asked Dean Martin if he was Sicilian , Dean scoffed and said " NO , I`m a REAL Italian , I`m not some African Sicilian ". My aunt thought that was cool because she had a low opinion of Sicilians .
First, I’m so sorry about your mama. I have a 5 year old son who is such a mamas boy and I am so sorry you had to go through that. Secondly, thank you for sharing that! I am fascinated by the way people discussed it all. I can’t remember my grandpa saying anything bad about Black people but he hated the Japanese 👀 because he did hand to hand combat with them as a 17 year old in WW2
@@Jenjen-qc5eq There are many peoples mixed in the Sicilians including many African populations over the years. (see: the so-called "Sicilian Scene" from the movie "True Romance", written by a nice Italian boy named Quintin Tarantino).
The North/South divide is still very much alive and well in Italy today where Alpine/Northern Italians considering folks south of Rome to be "swarthy", "un-Italian"/"un-European". The two groups look quite distinct and have demonstrably different genomes, as well with Rome itself being the dividing line. The majority of Patrician Elites in the Roman Empire also had large Celto-Germanic admixtures compared to the South, as well.
After my father died ( when I was 9 ) I moved-in with an aunt. Two doors down the street lived a Japanese lady ( this was the late 1960`s) Unfortunately she married an American ( German- American ) soldier and moved to the U.S. Unfortunately , because he was a hot-headed alcoholic . But I am glad that she was alive and well for MANY years after he died. In the nineteenth Century the U.S. insisted that Japan stopped being a closed society. But because the Japanese were SO GOOD at industrializing , the U.S. and other western nations started to look at Japan as an adversary . If only humans could peacefully share resources and wealth !! Your program always gets us thinking about this very troubled world , Danielle.
Remember Enrico Caruso was a big star before Sinatra in fact, one of his songs that was recorded on a 78 became the first million seller in the United States.
It is interesting that it was a specific group that controlled the movie Industry and they were the gatekeepers to what was acceptable. Especially when it came to how racial groups were perceived.
Assimilation is an interesting psychological experiment in America. Black people can't be whitened but they can become super rich as to become tolerable. But even then, their presence is still questioned. Class mobility doesn't erase prejudice.
"They can't be whitened" ...unless they marry & procreate with a White person and their children & grandchildren do the same. Alfonso Ribeiro's kid's for example do not look Black. If they marry White, their kids will be even whiter.
@@David-zv5xm Yes because there are not enough affluent Black people to penetrate that bubble. They pay millions to remain in their bubble and essentially pay to be willfully ignorant.
@@David-zv5xm "not about how you look" That's false. Racial identity mainly depends on what you look like and how & where you were raised. Like, for example, if someone ambiguous like Mariah Carey had been adopted by Europeans and raised in a country like Iceland, she would probably identify as Caucasian.
@@David-zv5xm black is still being associated with lower class.The two go hand in hand, and if class issues were fixed or better, things would be much better. Black with medium high income live a different life compared to blacks with low income and their economy, education, professional data match the white ones. All the conversation we are having in this channel show how when you reach a higher income and keep it, climbimg the social ladder, perception shifts. And seems it's working also for affluent blacks
Frank Sinatra was the first singer to attract a large female audience after Bing Crosby. He started wearing a hat on his album covers on 1954's Songs for Young Lovers, probably because his hair started thinning. He was very self-conscious of his balding appearance and even had an assistant who carried thirty toupees for him. His album cover photo probably was retouched, but not necessarily to "whiten" him, but to make him appear more attractive. It was a common practice. Celebrities had nose jobs and other types of plastic surgery because few non-celebrities could afford them and a more attractive appearance could further their careers. Marilyn Monroe is another well-known example of a celeb who had plastic surgery early on. Interestingly, mobster Willie Moretti helped start Sinatra's career and he maintained a friendship with Cosa Nostra members for most of his life. He was also known to be close to Joseph Fischetti of the Chicago Mob, and you'll see many photos of him with Mafia members on the Internet such as Sam Giancana and Carlo Gambino. Dean Martin, on the other hand, although he began working in Mob joints in Youngstown, Ohio, avoided associating with them and was a dedicated family man.
My mom was an avid reader of biographies so every time she bought something I would read it after her. Anything about Sinatra or the Kennedys or the Mafia was an instant grab. This was mostly in the 70s-80s. That's how I learned about all these people. Their stories are fascinating to this day.
@@nytnThe Moorish conquest of Sicily (and the Iberian peninsula lasted several hundred years) At that time, "Moor" was a catch-all term used to describe both Arab and African Muslims. Whenever you have a several hundred years long occupation, there is going to be a lot of mixing and matching so to speak. The evidence of that five to seven centuries of mixing and matching is still very clear throughout any areas of Europe that were under Moorish or Ottoman control. Sophia Bush's character in the Thurgood Marshall biopic had a great line when she said "women are women and men are men." You put men and women from any culture in proximity and they are going to do what men and women do. I'm all for it by the way and at the time, it wasn't controversial. In fact, members of the Medici family and a few Roman emperors may have been of mixed racial heritage, with a high percentage of African dna being part of that mix. None of this became controversial until the advent of the transcontinental slave trade and the pseudo scientific and religious doctrine that was developed after the fact as justification. Race is a phony construct. Always has been, always will be. We are all one. That's why even during wwii when black and white troops were kept separate, the US Army never maintained racially segregated blood supplies for transfusions. The sooner we remove the shackles of "race," the sooner humankind can reach its true potential. Keep up your work.
French Canadians also had very little respect and were considered less than white believed or not in New England when they started taking over to textile mills. It took a guy named Rudy Valle to become the white face of French Canadians. As a guy who is part French Canadian, he was like the focal point for French Canadian entertainment way before Céline Dion
i have lived in both the US and Canada (in fact, in a part of Canada that is both Anglo and French) and genuinely believe that French Canadians are disrespected more in the US than in Canada, where it is much more of a political issue
Allow me to point out that Franco-Canadians have a significant amount of native "blood". The so-called French colonial empire, on the other hand, was largely sustained by individuals of mixed heritage, considering that very few French people from Europe actually came over. The Marquis de Montcalm stood up to the English with only a few thousand Frenchmen and a multitude of Algonquin and Métis allies.
Expressed regrets for any offense regarding comments that quickly sum up convoluted circumstances, but can be interpreted harshly. Love the channel keep up the good work.
Another great video Danielle! You took my thoughts right out of my head...if there's going to be an Italian American day I want to celebrate Frank Sinatra day! ❤
Nice informative video 💯 & I have to mention, when I initially saw this thumbnail on my RUclips feed 📱I said to myself “Ain’t that a kick in the head.”
Italians have always had a presence in the western hemisphere going back to the Age Of Discovery and I'm not just talking about Columbus either. That people that crewed these ships weren't just Spaniards of often multinational individuals and a great number actually came from Genoa Italy. In fact Genoa till this day has a rich seafaring legacy and one that goes all the way back to roman times.
Yes I would love to hear your Dad's experience and any stories he can share that were handed down in your family from his parents or grandparents. I haven't ever thought much abt Frank Sinatra as Italian even though I have Dean Martin and Tony Bennett. I think photography and lighting improved over the course of Frank's career which helped whitewash his features. I also think his blue eyes were colorized and his hair was colorized a lighter brown. But with that hat on and lots of lighting to whiten his face, his ancestry was "whited out" so to speak. Im so v glad you did this piece on Old Blue Eyes - even that name!!
As far as I know, guapo isn't an italian term. It's spanish for handsome. They might use it in the south though as they were ruled by the spanish for a few centuries, but I have personally never heard it. Nice video by the way, it's always interesting to hear the story of italians abroad
What people often forget is that in the 19th century America viewed itself as largely a Protestant country and those individuals that subscribed to Catholicism or were Jewish were often viewed as not white. This is also why the "Black Legend" managed to gain a foothold in America.
The Black legend on Catholics is still very well on socials , entertainment, and colleges too! People believe Hypatia the movie is pure facts😳or the Inquisition murdering millions of people and burning billions of witches (actually, Protestants burned way more witches than Inquisition ). Let alone the conspiracy theories about Catholics shielding the Illuminati 🤣 or practicing witchcraft and being pagans LOL , being Catholic in the US can be even today rather tricky in many environments😳 wait! I forgot a woke crazy lady blaming Spanish Inquisition for altering history and inventing the Roman Empire that never was🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 smart dudes these Inquisitors, they had to invent an alphabet a language , rushing to create fake statues and monuments..🤣🤣🤣🤣 prejudice and modern media can be Atomic mix for bs🤣🤣🤣
@@David-zv5xm it's nonsense indeed but a dangerous and murderous one. The fact that people suffered and died for "race purity" doesn't make the concept any less silly, just makes the horrors in its name even more damn stupid and horrible
It’s not since many Italians back in ancient times were of aboriginal European and Aboriginal African descent along with Mulattos and Asians from West and East Asia ✊🏾 so they were spot on look up what Benjamin Franklin says about Europe and how swarthy the Europeans and Americans are 🤯
What would be interesting is the history of Italians from Argentina. When I worked at Dante's pizza in New Orleans my boss was from Argentina. I would assume they didn't have to assimilate there. Are they considered white too?
there are many areas of the state of california where jews, italians and irish teamed up to oppress and discriminate against black people (particularly in housing and employment opportunities). jews and italians teamed up in the san gabriel valley (southern california) and coastal regions (both northern and southern california), while the irish primarily concentrated in the central coast/northern border. the restrictive covenants/racism in housing set in place still have an impact TO THIS DAY on the types of housing black californians have access to, which also affect life chances. later, these groups also invited asians on ‘team white’ who furthered the discrimination against black people (especially in southern california)
Sinatra also had Mafia ties, which didn't help to dispel that aspect of the stereotype; however, the music business and others were deeply infiltrated by the Mob at that time, so he had no choice in certain instances. Though, it has been proven that he was a willing associate of some notorious gangsters from that era.
The Mob was deeply involved in many cases of election fraud, including well into the Kennedy(a fellow Catholoc) Era. The film "The Godfather" is based around many of these events.
Read Bill O’Reilly’s book “Killing the Mob” and you’ll learn how the mob had their fingers in everything, especially entertainment, such as the recording industry, sports.
Man, this channel is fascinating. The research you do and how you present is unrivaled. I didn't know Sinatra referred to himself as the "Top Wop" lol. That's basically what the blacks have done with the N (hard ER) word. Being black myself it usually makes me cringe hearing blacks at large calling each other that but the way people communicate is so bizzare I just have to laugh at it and keep it moving.
I appreciate that, I know it's controversial these days to try and talk about American identity without a political agenda but....we'll see how long Im allowed to hang out
One of my observations in noticing Black American and Black British and African etc collaborations on RUclips is seeing how much the Black americans use the word Ni**a in regular conversation while the Black British etc rarely do 😆.
I didn't create the term African American as a replacement for the term black, but as a repudiation of it. The DNA test gives a scientific estimate of one's ethnic background. If your DNA estimate says you're Italian, and your familial history aligns with that fact, you cannot rely on others to validate what you know to be true. You can claim Italian history, culture, and food as your own. If you are from Southern Louisiana and do not have French ancestry, you are not Creole. The term Creole means descended from France and if not that, any mixed person from Louisiana can claim Creole, eg the Irish or Germans.
I like this channel. When I was a kid my grandmother always referred to some members of my family as "mavras" which means black or darker skinned. People in my family range from quite white to olive to light brown. I've found some old immigration papers from around 1900 and one grandfather was listed as "semi colored"...I've never heard that term! We originated from the eastern Greek Islands and Cyprus. When I ran my DNA the map was colored from the Balkans thru Greece and Turkey well into the Middle East...I wonder who these ancestors were, where they came from and how they met, especially since I always thought Greeks and Turks and other Muslim people were ancient enemies...
Actually, in my humble opinion...The Italians shown on the big screen, in "Peplum" movies, helped Italians to be respected and move up quite a bit in the "Hierarchy to "Whiteness" and this was helped with their names changed or shortened to sound more "American", or mainstream English acceptable non-ethnic names. I remember many changed their names, just as some of the German-Jewish people did just this. In America, the goal is to have a permanent underclass...And that is usually Black/African. Movies, with some ethnic Italians ranking over other Blacks and in sports, and positive visibility, helped to reinforce this. I have heard more epithets, but they rarely used the word"Guinea" any longer. Frank Sinatra was a great man, and so were his kids, and many others who were Anti-racists and helped during the civil rights quite a bit were totally identifying Italians across America at my time. Peace
If you look at old newspaper clippings it will tell you how “white” people felt about Sicilians and how they described them as working alongside good white people . My great grandfather was Sicilian and he favored your grandfathers facial features but was not considered white by any means and didn’t identify that way from what I hear . On top of living in the south where lynchings and prejudice were the norm . Great channel . Keep up the good work .
You touched upon an interesting facet of America's discrimination. Not only on ethnicity but color bias that is not often found in Europe. Many American's seem to think the blonder you are the better and the darker your hair is the scarier for some reason despite having light skin. Just look how blonde women (with blue or green eyes) are treated vs very dark haired women that seem too sinister or powerful...
Sinatra had brown skin. You have to find the candid/not posing/unedited photos of him. I think he may have bleached his skin also. I have photos where he is clearly a ruddy brown man
@@Crimetimex79 ruddy brown is a specific color. Please look it up to see for yourself. Frank Sinatra was a ruddy brown complexioned Italian. This is indisputable; research his young photos
He could be just tanned. Most of Italians tan real dark , enough said that when I went to Salento (Apulia) in summer streets looked almost like home, crowded with people even darker than me(South Nigerian). 😳 In winter , it was gone , the same people turned back to milk 😳
This is probably true for Armenians too. My adoption by an Armenian father and Irish mother : i didn't see my dad as anything but white, but he did have olive skin color very similar to Italians. His parents had lighter skin color in the white range, but they didn't go in the sun. My dad also had white friends growing up in Philadelphia and was in a the local neighborhood gang for protection in the 30's . No problems as he was in the Army for 22 years: we were in Texas for one year but lived in officers quarters in 1963 . Mixed marriages black/ white had to live on post because it would have caused problems off post. So , there might have been some discrimination, but in California it wasn't apparent to me. As i am white: with 16% Italian DNA, which i never knew until I took a DNA test.
"It's hard to imagine a time when Italian-Americans were not considered a part of the white race". As a 62 yr old Italian American I've always considered myself American of Italian ancestry. Some friends like to ball bust with that line about "the moors" aka being black African however the moors were from Northern Africa and were Arab-Muslims.
I am bad at expressing myself without ticking people off, but I do appreciate your channel. Part of the "whitening" process doesn't make me particularly proud, but history can't (or better said shouldn't be) erased. Just learned from.
Many older Italian Americans do act like a stereotype. My older brother married a girl whose father was born in italy. When he spoke he sounded like a character from a mob movie (in his voice only he never used words that a mob figure would use).
I am watching many of videos about the american "whitening" of many groups. I have been wondering if perhaps the next group to undergo this may be lighter skinned latinos. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thoughtful analysis. In terms of media conditioning I thought of the film Saving Private Ryan, and how it overtly and subtly was actually about the Americanizing the “ethnic” American through the bonding experience of war. Of course the segregation of Black military units made it the perfect reflection of American society.
I have done some deep dives on this on the channel. My viewers know that when I say "white race" it's in air quotes, because white was a legal status that immigrants had to go to court for. I covered a lot of those supreme court cases on the channel last summer. I took for granted in this video that some people still think a color= a race. I should have clarified for them, thanks!
Danielle, if you are ever interested in reading a book on Columbus, this is the one that I would suggest: Columbus and the Quest for Jerusalem, by Carol Delaney. I read it last year, and it was such a great read packed with information. - I know you love history and I do too…
Divide, and then conquer. This is the story of humans. Thus, I'd think that Sinatra's anti racism stance may have actually helped Italians become white. Just a thought.
Sinatra was ahead of his time in regard to integration. Deano's daughter also dated David Ruffin of the Temptations. I recall the Dean Martin Show in my early childhood of the 1970s. I also watched his early film with Jerry Lewis. However, the key is "ahead of his time". Sinatra made jokes in his shows that would be considered politically incorrect today at best. The far left "wokeism" would cancel him. But for his time, Sinatra was progressive and liberal in regard to fighting integration. That's impressive that the "Rat Pack" threatened to cancel shows if Sammy Davis Jr. wasn't allowed inside. So, I think Sinatra should be remembered for the context of the time he lived in and how he helped civil rights.
I think it's important to highlight, no matter how hard people once were fearful of preserving their cultural heritage, And no matter how much they tried to assimilate... The italian american subculture will never be erased from this nation. And that's something to truly be proud of. No matter how hard italian americans that are in denial of their heritage and their beautiful culture are, they will never erase all the unique flavor and flair, they gave this nation. We are alive and well, and I think this is what bothers a lot of Anglo white americans. We have a culture that is completely separate from Anglo America, even if we learned how to integrate into Anglo society And personally, that should be the actual goal of immigration. Immigration shouldn't mean cultural erasure. It should actually mean integration, while also identifying how important preserving your ethnic heritage is And I would say at large. Italian Americans did a nice job doing this. Because you still can't go anywhere in this nation. And not see the imprint Italian Americans have had in very diverse ways on the pop culture of the united states... In food in coffee, culture and entertainment, and all over. What I don't understand is people can't say that they have over assimilated, because you can say the same thing about Mexican Americans or Greek Americans. Or jews. How are they not accepted into mainstream america? The answer is they are, and there's always a caveat that people will try to argue, but yet will dismiss the italian american experience. This whole idea of acceptance by white America is annoying to me. Because what does that actually mean? And look like? You're telling me certain immigrant groups still aren't accepted in america? Again what does that mean? Because the last time I checked, certain groups are more presently accepted than italian americans ever were. My ancestors couldn't speak their language now. It's an asset to speak another language Just like you can walk all over the united states and see italian american influence in the restaurants, you can do the same for mexican food
@@etruscancivilization My friend you keep on telling everybody painted "black" race but Etruscans look really white, not even always brunette- in frescos, funerary art, statues..And people in those area still look often a lot like them today😳I didn't see my reflection (I am Nigerian) seeing the art of Etruscan necropolis
@@etruscancivilizationwhy have they yet to find DNA of these sub Saharan Etruscans concerning grave goods? Where are all the subsaharan artifacts? Anotherwords where is the genetic and archeological evidence to backup your claims?
@@etruscancivilization I still think you are a bit confused about genetics, archaelogy and history and history of art...But no problem is the norm in US education.
@@KingCatsTube full disclosure: there isn't any but in order to look inclusive nobody dares to say it in US colleges and universities. A 2021 Max Planck Institute study says that they probably were indigenous , from Italic Villanoviani. Former speculations such as Herodotus that they were indoeurpean stuff from Anatolia . Btw artifacts show mainly Greek and Oriental influences . They weren't viking looking dudes.But unless you aren't American, this is not enough to make them "black" , even less Africa related. (They could even have had a lot of Neanderthal, given their geographical position 😳)
@@etruscancivilization I left Nigeria but via African/European partnerships in education. Specifically Dakar / Milan La Statale/ Paris 8me (st. Denis) Universities collabs , and La Sapienza for Bachelor in antiquity (keeping it real, history is a whole universe, antiquity is a whole galaxy, you can't live enough to be a specialist in *every* time and place - so I focused on Africa / mediterranean/ near Asia ). The academic reputation of these places is strong , can't be absolutely accused of being "Eurocentric" . Africa never left my radar, is just the *real* Africa not the confused myth in American lore and politically biased imagination
As a society, we should prioritize the quality and character of people rather than focusing on race. Emphasizing race is too restrictive. Only ignorant individuals place excessive emphasis on race, and archaeological findings indicate that humanity originated in Africa. Different human characteristics developed as adaptations to various climates. Even for those who believe in the creationist theory, it is important to recognize that Adam and Eve could not have been white. At one point, some religious extremists falsely claimed that Black people originated from the line of Cain. It is unwise to categorize people, as this only leads to foolishness.
It’s no surprise that darker Italian singers like Louie Prima were much less successful than these two, they appealed more to average Americans while Prima presented as very Mediterranean or Latino looking.
I truly don’t believe it was Frank Sinatra alone. Before his time, Italians were treated with utter disrespect. They were persecuted, segregated and even “deleted” by other European groups in America 🇺🇸. Once the Sicilians formed their “Families” and started “handling their business”, the same European groups that bothered them before backed off, they now feared them and started showing respect. As the Italian economic base continued to grow they gained more and more respect. Let’s get real…money talks and who could make more money faster than the Italians in America ? So, “if you can’t beat them, join them”. So the other European groups decided to “accept them into the fold”. But…even today you hear racial slurs made about Italians, so are they truly accepted or is it that they are respected ? Many Italians/Sicilians have melanated skin. That’s not the same as being “White”…
What about the Yankees Joe DiMaggio , everybody knows Joe D born in 1914 to Italian Parents from Sicily . 3 time AL MVP "The Yankee Clipper "how did he play baseball if Italians were so "persecuted " Jackie Robinson ,who didn't get a chance until 1947 because of his color . Keep it real please
@@elleanna5869 black players were not allowed to play MLB ,and plenty of Italians did . In fact, Joe had a brother Dom who played MLB as well .My point was if they were viewed like black Americans then they would have been prohibited from MLB as well .
@@elleanna5869 no blacks could play MLB until Jackie Robinson Italians could and Joe's brother Dom played MLB as well at the same time .If Italians had it as bad then they would have been prohibited from the MLB as well was my point
@@5Antvin I get it, Italians had it a looot easier. Their pass to whiteness was costy and required about a century to be "officially" acquired. While black people had to wait way more to end segregation and enjoying full civil rights. My points here are 1) I don't consider individual exploits as proof that a whole community is doing fine . Or all black billionaires around in the US shut the conversation on black community sufferings 2) I don't think that even when you "officially" join the club of success and aknowledged rights, prejudice against you istantly disappear . Sure enough Di Maggio even with all his talent and success wasn't seen by all wasp environment like "truly" one of them. Btw the goal of the channel is not equating Italian and other ethnicities troubles with black community struggle. Obviously you (we , black but not American here)hit the hardest with Waspness wall. The conversation we are having here is about unmasking the "rules" of assimilation and the hypocrisy of prejudice
In general you don't really see Italian discrimination during times of prosperity. Before Sinatra was even born Enrico Caruso was belting out opera and was possibly one of the first male super stars. Followed by a host of Italian singers and of course the Italian actor Rudolf Valentino was a super star.. In fact up until the 1930's it was a big bonus if you were Italian which caused singers to pretend to be Italian like Rudy Valee who became the first radio super star who invented crooning of which a young Sinatra imitated. (An Italian copying a French Canadian American pretending to be an Italian.) I think it was bad economics and lack of jobs that really brought out the discrimination and attacks against the Italians. First in poorer areas of the U.S. during the great depression of the 1890's and again during the great depression of the 1930's. Of course WWII and Italy being a Nazi ally didn't help any.
Italians were always white and considered/treated white in America. Proof is that they fought alongside white soldiers during WW2 and not segregated like Black soldiers, Italians were given public accommodations along with other whites in the Jim Crow south (e.g., an Italian could drink from a white water fountain , stay in a white hotel and be treated at a white hospital), a young Frank Sinatra openly serenaded blondes in 1940s movies, he also openly dated sought after white starlets like Lana Turner with no problems (unlike Sammy Davis Jr who almost lost his life doing the same). These are/were characteristics whiteness or "privileges" of whites in mid-20th century America. Yes, Italians may have been considered lower on the White totem pole (or hierarchy) in comparison to WASPs, yet as "ethnic" whites, Italians were generally treated as white similar to the Polish and Jews. Again, Italians were always white and generally treated as such especially in comparison to Blacks...let's not get it twisted.
Not always , in 19th century and early 20th century there were states in the US that considered them coloured , people were discriminated on every level , there were lynching and a lot of hate. R*ping a South Italian woman could be judged in courts a minor crime compared to abusing a white woman. They honestly had a hard time that brought even Italian government to protest (and this helped a bit). Black people had it a lot moooore harder, but Italians weren't easily always white and had to pay their "whiteness pass" to WASP club
@@jbstarkiller4626 some states did consider them such , meaning just colored not "negro" . As other un-wasp ethnicities.Once again, when the conversation is about other people enduring discrimination why do you assume that somehow this belittles or "twists" black Americans experience? It rather shows the opposite. If even people 100℅ Europeans endured troubles to access the "holy" Waspness of prosperity and integration , how troubling things were and can be still today for you (in theory, us- but I am an African living in Europe and thankfully things are too blurred here for "wasp" to be a thing)
@@elleanna5869 None of that is true, colored means negro and Italians are not that. Don’t worry blacks weren’t oppressed either. "WASP" is 100% a thing in Europe their called the English🤣
The Lynch Italians because Italians have brown skin and white people didn't think that they were white! The only time they think Italians are white is when the Italians start marrying white people and their kids look more Anglo than Italian.
But also in Southern Italy there are many light skinned, blonde haired and light eyed ppl, due to the Norman domination. And in the North there are some who instead are darker skinned with dark brown or black hair and eyes. Let's remember that Lombardia was ruled by Spain for a long period of time.
@@StratOCasterMIJ90 for phenotypes, they aren't that easy to tell. The extremely blond , Brits like or even Scandinavia, were always minority in the North. And extreme dark skin was also minority in the South. Italians aren't "2 distintct genetically groups", this still stinks of Lombroso lies. Italians are a "congerie" of genes and ironically the (small percentage) present "Africanness" is the one from North Africa (not black enough for the sake of US boxes). The only striking difference between Northerners and Southerners(edit: and contrary to popular belief, this doesn't show that much on looks , rather changes something for health ) is in the concentration of Neanderthal material in Northerners. But to make an example, pick French icon ultra classy Gerard Philipe- and you meet dudes looking alike easily in Sicily. Dirk Bogarde, Patric MacNee, Keith Richards- they have all several doppelgangers in Southern Italy , and in North too. Rather than race/phenotype as two blocks of colour, better think to a very elaborate kilt pattern (17 millions genetic variants!)
@@Galidorquest Irish cluster genetically with Scots, English and Welsh. They are Insular Celts like the Scots and Welsh. Irish looks the same as other people in the British Isles. Not sure what you are saying. Also these videos are odd in trying to make out people became "white". Italians just like the Irish were always legally white. It's not like they changed their race when they came to the US. Being discriminated against happened to whites as well.
Yes, "WOP, with a "W", stands for "With Out Papers"(illegal immigrant). "Guapo" is Spanish and starts with a "G", not a "W" and Italians were certainly not considered "Handsome"/"Guapo" by the majority of Americans as a matter of course.
Guappo (with two p's) is from the Neapolitan dialect for a thug or a handsome stud. (my family was from Naples). It is really pronounced "wah-po" though
Guappo is a napolitan term: in Naples, the guappo was the hero of the neighborhood: a sort of popular Robin Hood, but also a commoner who dressed extravagantly and with excessive ostentation. He represents the image of the gentlemanly and romantic man of honor, ready to settle disputes between people and convince young men who had impregnated some girl to settle down and marry her. The income and respect derived from the guappo for its practice of protecting the inhabitants of a neighborhood from the abuses committed by criminals in the area or neighboring areas.
Spanish language is a ROMANce language and is Latin based and Italian is modern Latin so the Spanish would have most likely borrowed the word from the Italians.
I have a video coming out on this term. im so glad it matches what you said! I should have asked you first. @giorgiodifrancesco4590 @giorgiodifrancesco4590
@@bluetinsel7099 No. In this case is the napolitan who borrowed from the spanish. In that last language guapo (with a p) means beautiful, but came from the latin "vappa" prononced "wahp-pah" that means slacker.
Frank Sinatra did not look southern Italian. I was in my 30's when he died. I saw him on TV singing many times. His hair was light brown that I remember but of course he was probably gray and dyed light brown from when I remember him. I am in my early 70's. As far as dark skin, everybody used to tan. Hollywood people would go to tanning beds. Was he 100% Italian or perhaps half? If his mother was fair skinned Irish or Scandanavian he would have been lighter. I am guessing Irish. They were usually both catholic and often intermarried. Americans hated the Irish too at the turn of the 20th century. Now Dean Martin did look southern Italian. You know Colin Farrow on Good Morning America? Many believe he is actually Sinatra's son because he looks very much like him and Mia Farrow was married to Frank at one time, but she stayed friends with Sinatra. She was supposed to be with Woody Allen when he was born. Colin was born a good many years after their divorce not long before Frank died. One thing for sure he does not look anything like Woody Allen.
Proof that whiteness is a political, social and economic construct. They decide who is white and who is not. This ain’t about melanin. It’s about lineage. Thanks for your videos.
Columbus was an explorer and discovered the new world (not known at that time to the Europeans). On the other hand, Sinatra was an icon and made great music. If I had to pick between the two as far as a national holiday, I would go with Columbus. I’m not “woke” at all and I like relevance, impact, and achievement; and when judging the past, I think it is important to look at things and judge based on their era and from their perspective and not so much from the era and the perspective that we live in today.
Just so you know its was the Norse that discovered America first for europeans. Look up “Vinland” if we are going to give that title to anyone then it should be them.
Where did Columbus get his maps from? I suggest you research The Doctrine of Discovery. Discover didn't mean they first found out the lands were there. It meant that if they went to lands where they discovered no Christians living there, they could take the land and the non Christians and do what they wanted with them.
I agree, I dont have the vitriol towards CC that most people have, but I dont get it either. Why is HE "THE" icon for italian americans? He did it under the Spanish flag, and never stepped foot on US territory...
@@nytn Didn't you do a video on the origin of Columbus Day in the United States? If you haven't you should. Supposedly he was born in Genoa, Italy. I don't think anyone really knows anything about his real birth. When you go back that far everything is shrouded in myth.
@@etruscancivilization Are melanated people less intelligent based on degrees of melanin? In other words are lighter skin races unequivocally more intelligent?
@@etruscancivilization: “…a people who were the last to evolve into civilized humanity…” This is this person’s definition of “white” - Now I would call that pseudoscience (maybe Afro-centrism re-engineered history - kinda sounds like it), and the purist form of racism that one could express in words without the slurs!
@@etruscancivilization I would say that "white" as any identity is not static. In the US means "wasp" . And it meant specifically "wasp with money", because in the US "race" is a whole bag of tricks to grab as much money (and land and power) you can and possibly pass it to your children . On a genetical frame, white is range that doesn't come with just one ancestry. Yes they have on average more Neanderthal than us but paleontology is a bad guidance for history and ethnicity. We Africans , also the ones from sub-saharan regions (meaning literally "located under the Sahara", no race thing involved in "sub") , were found to possess more Neanderthal material than previously thought. Showing that there has been a lot more mixing , walking out of Africa and back again than previously thought. (In Italy btw just for trivia...the Neanderthal material is concemtrated in norhern Italians)
Guappo (with two p's) is from the Neapolitan dialect for a thug or a handsome stud. (my family was from Naples). It is really pronounced "wah-po" if you are saying it right
OMG, my mom had olive skin and brown eyes and dark hair, she was Croatian, French and Russian Jew. Her whiteness was never an issue or questioned. Why are people more obsessed with skin color now that they've ever been in my almost 65 years of life? It's what's in a person's heart and mind that matter, I feel like the world is becoming more superficial every day. I'm so bored with race, unless you're talking about the human race.
I’m a historian and I’m also trying to understand my family’s experience here in America. Why didn’t we learn Italian? Why didn’t I know about my African ancestry from Louisiana? History is the only way to understand.
@@nytn Yes, I really do get it, and oddly, it was 60 years ago so it took a minute to remember this, but I had to come back and tell you, when I was 5, I actually thought my mom's mom was black! She was Croatian with dark skin and old and skinny from diabetes and depression, and was so emotionally beaten down by my grandfather, that I think that played in to my thinking she was black! We were in Salt Lake City in the 60s, and I didn't even know one black person then, might have seen one or two, but even at 5 I knew that black people were not treated the way people I knew were treated, my grandfather was used racist language, even though we lived in a pretty much all white world. And my white son's partner is Black, White & Native American, adopted and raised by whites, identifies as black because that's easiest to see. I wish we could get past color or origin mattering, but you're right - that can only happen if we understand where we are and how we got there. Now I remember why I subbed to you, lol. 😂❤
What's really laughable is the obsession the self proclaimed whitest of the have with getting the darkest possible suntan!my prediction: in 2to 3 mor generations is that olive tinted white -ish skin tone will be all the rage with all the superficial people. All are God's children& the rs ther is such a thing as improved hybrid vigor.
@@nytn Because Italian isn't a native/founding language of America. Your family should've taught you the language, if they wanted you to learn it, but they realized it wasn't of much practical value in a country that spoke 97% English. The same is true with your African ancestry. Your own family chose not to teach you about it. America was founded for, of, and by "White"(WASPs) people. Remember, Germans, Scandis and the Irish weren't even "White Enough" despite being literally the Whitest of all. It's as political as it is personal. America is/was the land of "assimilation", not the land of "everybody pretend we're still in the Old Country".
I like Danielle's videos, but this one especially shows her youth and ignorance of how things were handled in the late 19th century and first half of the 20th century. Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin aren't examples of 'whitening', rather they're examples of deliberate, enthusiastic assimilation that was normal for that generation, and not exclusive to those with Italian heritage. I have ancestry from 6 European countries, and even my ancestors from German-speaking Switzerland who came over in 1887 changed the spelling of their surname to make the English pronunciation match the German (changing a 'j' to a 'y').
Hi, Danielle's mom and dad.
I saw a film long ago about a family that immigrated to the USA and their changes over the years. The narrator said something that I've always remembered. He said, "My grandparents were Italian-Italians. My parents were Italian-Americans. I'm an American-Italian and my kids are American-Americans."
Regarding the Italians being shunted into the most difficult and physically demanding jobs, I also remember something that allegedly was said by an Italian man who immigrated to Canada. He learned three things when he got off of the ship. First, the streets were not paved with gold. Second, the streets were not paved at all. Third, he was expected to pave them.
Frank Sinatra (Francis Sinatra), Dean Martin (Dino Crocetti), Tony Bennett (Anthony Benedetto), Connie Francis (Concetta Franconero), Frankie Avalon (Francis Avallone), Dion (Dion DiMucci), Annette Funicello, Glen Danzig (Glenn Anzalone), Bobby Darin (Walden Cassotto), Lou Christie (Luigi Sacco), Joe Perry (Joseph Pereira), Steven Tyler (Steven Tallarico), Nicholas Cage (Nicholas Coppola) ... the list goes on. Not all from the 50s and 60s but there were a LOT if Italian-Americans influencing popular culture. And we can't forget Jon Bon Jovi (John Bongiovi).
I’m pinning this!
@@nytn I am honored and humbled.
@@gazoontightAlso Stephen Tyler of Aerosmith has Italian origins. His true name is Stefano Tallarico
@@Laurita-ev8me I listed him but spelled his first name differently.
@@gazoontight Oh sorry, I didn't read that part. My apologies 🙏
I hope you know how important you and your channel are. I am a black American, and you have changed my perception of the world forever. You have freed me of very painful shackles I did not know I had. You've empowered me and strengthened me in ways I didn't know I needed. You crushed myths and enlightened truths that I very much needed. I hope you don't let anyone discourge you from your path God gave you to us and gave you your talents of historical reference, courage, communication, and open-mindedness for this reason. You are a powerful force for good, and I thank you very much for all that you do.
Is it crazy to tell you I took a screen shot of this? I always pray for direction, and sometimes am not sure if Im really on the right path. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell me this, you made a huge difference for me!
@@nytn you show better than most people in the US today as "race" is a social construct and just a tool for discrimination and oppression. You are fueling a vital conversation in the US , highly needed. N.1 vid I saw and told you, you are brave ❤️
@@nytn You're brave and honest. I love this channel as well. Thank you very much. It does mean a lot to a lot of us. And it's heartening to read such comments as well. It shows we are not alone!
@@nytn I agree 100% with what he (or she) said. I have enjoyed getting into your videos, as an Armenian-American a lot resonates with me. Keep doing what you are doing!!
@etruscancivilization I never said I didn't love myself. I said she helped change my perception of the world. I am very literate in black history. But she educates you on EVERYONE else's history that came here, and it helps enlighten me on the contextualization of black Americans in this country. Her videos are very powerful and educational, and they come from this very scientific perspective of genealogy, and I respect that very much. I am grateful to have found her channel. She is a blessing.
I have always respected Frank Sinatra as a musician and a civil rights activist. During the late 1950s, he came to Gary, IN to help resolve racial tensions in the city resulting from school integration.
I didn’t know that! I respect that about him too
@nytn here is a link to the event when Sinatra came to town. blog.history.in.gov/tag/frank-sinatra/
Let me know if the link got deactivated and I will send it another way.
thank you!!
I remember reading an article that talked about Italian's, Irish and Jews coming to the USA non white and then over time becoming part of the majority of society.
The Title was "Becoming White Revisited" by Phillip Q. Yang
Then they discriminated against black people.
@@paulacopeland8360 Yes, it's a cruel, hypocritical aspect of human nature.
@@paulacopeland8360Yes, that was a great shame
@@fastmover2598 Arabs do it all the time. And I have read that Afro Americans (Black Americans) now discriminate recent migrants from Africa
Frank Sinatra was a real one. He played his position well.
Love the research you put in your videos. This shows the sacrifices that people have always had to make to become successful in the USA. Sinatra was more than just an iconic entertainer.
SPEAKING FOR MYSELF AS A BLACK AMERICAN MALE, FRANK SINATRA IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE HUMAN BEINGS ALONG WITH DEAN MARTIN. TOGETHER WITH BLACK SUPERGREAT SAMMY DAVIS JR. THEY WERE SOME COOL OUTSTANDING MEN!!!!! I THANK GOD FOR THEM AND THEIR PARENTS!!!!!!
In your opinion, is it possible that Frank Sinatra had some Black heritage?
@@Laurita-ev8meIf you’re on the Modern Day hue-man, then you have African DNA!
@@mylissa2167 I have for sure. Besides the fact that humankind started in Africa, I am white but my biological father's family from Brazil is super-over-mixed. My mom was an Italian woman and my biological father was a Brazilian immigrant who was a mix of White, Black and Gipsy (his father was a mulato) and I came out white. My mom married an Italian man who adopted and raised me but I kept in touch with my Brazilian father and we travelled to Brazil to meet my biological family and they are from the most pale white to the darkest skin shade and they all love each other without any differences. I live in Italy and I identify myself as Italian but I'm very proud of each part of my heritages!
@@mylissa2167 I had responded but RUclips deleted my comment, Idk why. I said of course I have! I'm Italian by mom and adoptive father but my biological father was Brazilian and he was a mix of White, Black and Gipsy and I came out white. But I met my biological family and they are from the most pale white to the darkest skin shade and they all love each other without any differences. I live in Italy, I am Italian but I'm very proud of all my heritages and I know that humankind started in Africa!
And at the end of everyday, two went back to their Lilly white homes and the other….
While studying in the U.K., I met a number of Italians at university. They were from both northern and southern Itally, Genova to Napoli, and although they got along well while abroad, I could clearly tell amings themselves they made distinctions. Years later, through one of these friends, I met a woman whose family is from near Cuomo (in the north) who married a southerner. All these years (and 3 sons later) her mother was still saying, "Only if she married simeone more suitable". Don't fool yourself, in Italy the divide between northerners and southerners still lives on among some families.
Cuomo is a southerner surname, not a toponym. That is Como.
Among MANY families , leenam !!
@@giorgiodifrancesco4590My spelling error or failure to check auto-correct. I meant to write Como not Cuomo.
It would be better than northen italians and central italians stop mixing with southern italians and embrace endogamy.
While there was discrimination among the early Italians don't forget that at the same time there was some inclusion of them. I guess because they had the same skin color and features of the English and Dutch!!! Notably in 1776 two men of Italian heritage were among those who signed the declaration of independence. Their names William Paca and Caesar Rodney.
Ole Blue Eyes...I still call him that. Quincy Jones was his musical director for many years and he was a really honorable and caring person.
@boomboom123-sj2yc Dont forget Count Basey was his pianist and brought the young trumpeter to SInatra.
Sinatra also had his dark side, though. After all, how many times was he married? And the ties to the mob that were always hinted about. But he did do a lot of great things and he took care of his friends. He also turned out to be a really good actor as well.
Supposedly Wop came from the Southern Italian word Guappo or Guappu, which derived from Spanish, when the area was ruled by Spain. This makes some sense, since in Sicilian at least the initial G would be silent, so Guappu would sound like Wappu, and in Neapolitano the final vowel sound would be dropped.
Italian and Cajun/Creole food are some of the best
You must try Rao's pasta sauce, straight from Italy. Expemsive, and worth it. For Creole, try Zatarain's or Slap yo mama seasoning.
Facts....I love all food, but facts
Itialian food is the most overrated food there is IMO. If you don't like flour you're fucked.
@@ejiofor8141 Italian here, never heard of this pasta sauce in my life.
@@francisdrake7060 It’s made in Italy for everyone except Italians, I guess.
Danielle , I honestly can`t tell you what my Italian mother`s opinion on race was , except that she married my father who was quite liberal , ( my mother died when I was 5 ) My mother`s oldest sister would say that when a reporter asked Dean Martin if he was Sicilian , Dean scoffed and said " NO , I`m a REAL Italian , I`m not some African Sicilian ". My aunt thought that was cool because she had a low opinion of Sicilians .
First, I’m so sorry about your mama. I have a 5 year old son who is such a mamas boy and I am so sorry you had to go through that.
Secondly, thank you for sharing that! I am fascinated by the way people discussed it all. I can’t remember my grandpa saying anything bad about Black people but he hated the Japanese 👀 because he did hand to hand combat with them as a 17 year old in WW2
Clearly Martin didn't know that Scilians are not Africans but descended from Greeks.
@@Jenjen-qc5eq There are many peoples mixed in the Sicilians including many African populations over the years. (see: the so-called "Sicilian Scene" from the movie "True Romance", written by a nice Italian boy named Quintin Tarantino).
The North/South divide is still very much alive and well in Italy today where Alpine/Northern Italians considering folks south of Rome to be "swarthy", "un-Italian"/"un-European". The two groups look quite distinct and have demonstrably different genomes, as well with Rome itself being the dividing line. The majority of Patrician Elites in the Roman Empire also had large Celto-Germanic admixtures compared to the South, as well.
After my father died ( when I was 9 ) I moved-in with an aunt. Two doors down the street lived a Japanese lady ( this was the late 1960`s) Unfortunately she married an American ( German- American ) soldier and moved to the U.S. Unfortunately , because he was a hot-headed alcoholic . But I am glad that she was alive and well for MANY years after he died. In the nineteenth Century the U.S. insisted that Japan stopped being a closed society. But because the Japanese were SO GOOD at industrializing , the U.S. and other western nations started to look at Japan as an adversary . If only humans could peacefully share resources and wealth !! Your program always gets us thinking about this very troubled world , Danielle.
Remember Enrico Caruso was a big star before Sinatra in fact, one of his songs that was recorded on a 78 became the first million seller in the United States.
It is interesting that it was a specific group that controlled the movie Industry and they were the gatekeepers to what was acceptable. Especially when it came to how racial groups were perceived.
Assimilation is an interesting psychological experiment in America. Black people can't be whitened but they can become super rich as to become tolerable. But even then, their presence is still questioned. Class mobility doesn't erase prejudice.
"They can't be whitened" ...unless they marry & procreate with a White person and their children & grandchildren do the same. Alfonso Ribeiro's kid's for example do not look Black. If they marry White, their kids will be even whiter.
@@David-zv5xm Yes because there are not enough affluent Black people to penetrate that bubble. They pay millions to remain in their bubble and essentially pay to be willfully ignorant.
@@David-zv5xm "not about how you look" That's false. Racial identity mainly depends on what you look like and how & where you were raised. Like, for example, if someone ambiguous like Mariah Carey had been adopted by Europeans and raised in a country like Iceland, she would probably identify as Caucasian.
@@robertcammon5969 "cannot be whitened" ...Unless they marry someone Wyt and their kids and grandkids do the same.
@@David-zv5xm black is still being associated with lower class.The two go hand in hand, and if class issues were fixed or better, things would be much better. Black with medium high income live a different life compared to blacks with low income and their economy, education, professional data match the white ones. All the conversation we are having in this channel show how when you reach a higher income and keep it, climbimg the social ladder, perception shifts. And seems it's working also for affluent blacks
I was taught three races. Since Sinatra wasn’t African or Asian, he was white. I see no issue here.
Frank Sinatra was the first singer to attract a large female audience after Bing Crosby. He started wearing a hat on his album covers on 1954's Songs for Young Lovers, probably because his hair started thinning. He was very self-conscious of his balding appearance and even had an assistant who carried thirty toupees for him. His album cover photo probably was retouched, but not necessarily to "whiten" him, but to make him appear more attractive. It was a common practice. Celebrities had nose jobs and other types of plastic surgery because few non-celebrities could afford them and a more attractive appearance could further their careers. Marilyn Monroe is another well-known example of a celeb who had plastic surgery early on.
Interestingly, mobster Willie Moretti helped start Sinatra's career and he maintained a friendship with Cosa Nostra members for most of his life. He was also known to be close to Joseph Fischetti of the Chicago Mob, and you'll see many photos of him with Mafia members on the Internet such as Sam Giancana and Carlo Gambino. Dean Martin, on the other hand, although he began working in Mob joints in Youngstown, Ohio, avoided associating with them and was a dedicated family man.
My mom was an avid reader of biographies so every time she bought something I would read it after her. Anything about Sinatra or the Kennedys or the Mafia was an instant grab. This was mostly in the 70s-80s. That's how I learned about all these people. Their stories are fascinating to this day.
Good afternoon neighbor lady, from Copperhill Tn. Love your programs!!!😊
Morning neighbor!
@@nytnThe Moorish conquest of Sicily (and the Iberian peninsula lasted several hundred years) At that time, "Moor" was a catch-all term used to describe both Arab and African Muslims. Whenever you have a several hundred years long occupation, there is going to be a lot of mixing and matching so to speak.
The evidence of that five to seven centuries of mixing and matching is still very clear throughout any areas of Europe that were under Moorish or Ottoman control.
Sophia Bush's character in the Thurgood Marshall biopic had a great line when she said "women are women and men are men."
You put men and women from any culture in proximity and they are going to do what men and women do. I'm all for it by the way and at the time, it wasn't controversial. In fact, members of the Medici family and a few Roman emperors may have been of mixed racial heritage, with a high percentage of African dna being part of that mix.
None of this became controversial until the advent of the transcontinental slave trade and the pseudo scientific and religious doctrine that was developed after the fact as justification.
Race is a phony construct. Always has been, always will be. We are all one. That's why even during wwii when black and white troops were kept separate, the US Army never maintained racially segregated blood supplies for transfusions.
The sooner we remove the shackles of "race," the sooner humankind can reach its true potential. Keep up your work.
Frank Sinatra was cool with black people ; we loved him !
French Canadians also had very little respect and were considered less than white believed or not in New England when they started taking over to textile mills. It took a guy named Rudy Valle to become the white face of French Canadians. As a guy who is part French Canadian, he was like the focal point for French Canadian entertainment way before Céline Dion
i have lived in both the US and Canada (in fact, in a part of Canada that is both Anglo and French) and genuinely believe that French Canadians are disrespected more in the US than in Canada, where it is much more of a political issue
Allow me to point out that Franco-Canadians have a significant amount of native "blood". The so-called French colonial empire, on the other hand, was largely sustained by individuals of mixed heritage, considering that very few French people from Europe actually came over. The Marquis de Montcalm stood up to the English with only a few thousand Frenchmen and a multitude of Algonquin and Métis allies.
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I'm concerned about the title. YT overlords may take issue as sometimes they can be a tad sensitive about wording.
this is true, lol
Sammy Davis was a cowboy, quick draw artist!!!!! He was on the Rifleman TV show. 😊
That is probably my favorite episode of the Rifleman !!
Sammy could do it all!
Expressed regrets for any offense regarding comments that quickly sum up convoluted circumstances, but can be interpreted harshly. Love the channel keep up the good work.
Another great video Danielle! You took my thoughts right out of my head...if there's going to be an Italian American day I want to celebrate Frank Sinatra day! ❤
let's do it!
You know he suffered from depression too. I'm a huge fan as well. 🇮🇹🙌🏽🇺🇸
Tony Bennett as well.
Informative as always.
Nice informative video 💯 & I have to mention, when I initially saw this thumbnail on my RUclips feed 📱I said to myself “Ain’t that a kick in the head.”
hahahahahah
Italian roots in America go back to the Revolutionary period and before. You should do a video on Filippo Mazzei. A friend of Jefferson.
All of those "Tollivers" from Virginia and Maryland were originally "Tagliaferro", here from the 17th century.
I have a script half written about him!! I need to finish it
@@nytn I look forward to it he was a true Rennisance man.
@@jdee3421 There was a general officer who fought for the Confederacy during the American Civil War named William B. Taliaferro.
Italians have always had a presence in the western hemisphere going back to the Age Of Discovery and I'm not just talking about Columbus either. That people that crewed these ships weren't just Spaniards of often multinational individuals and a great number actually came from Genoa Italy. In fact Genoa till this day has a rich seafaring legacy and one that goes all the way back to roman times.
Yes I would love to hear your Dad's experience and any stories he can share that were handed down in your family from his parents or grandparents.
I haven't ever thought much abt Frank Sinatra as Italian even though I have Dean Martin and Tony Bennett. I think photography and lighting improved over the course of Frank's career which helped whitewash his features. I also think his blue eyes were colorized and his hair was colorized a lighter brown. But with that hat on and lots of lighting to whiten his face, his ancestry was "whited out" so to speak. Im so v glad you did this piece on Old Blue Eyes - even that name!!
As far as I know, guapo isn't an italian term. It's spanish for handsome. They might use it in the south though as they were ruled by the spanish for a few centuries, but I have personally never heard it.
Nice video by the way, it's always interesting to hear the story of italians abroad
You are correct, it is often used in southern dialects.
"Guappo" is kind of bully/mafioso, also Guapparia I know is a term. I heard it especially while in Naples, people using it in as derogatory
Very good condense review of a great Italian American Frank Sinatra. 👍🏾.
What people often forget is that in the 19th century America viewed itself as largely a Protestant country and those individuals that subscribed to Catholicism or were Jewish were often viewed as not white. This is also why the "Black Legend" managed to gain a foothold in America.
Bingo! The Black Legend explains a lot of anti-Hispanic sentiment in the US.
The Black legend on Catholics is still very well on socials , entertainment, and colleges too! People believe Hypatia the movie is pure facts😳or the Inquisition murdering millions of people and burning billions of witches (actually, Protestants burned way more witches than Inquisition ). Let alone the conspiracy theories about Catholics shielding the Illuminati 🤣 or practicing witchcraft and being pagans LOL , being Catholic in the US can be even today rather tricky in many environments😳 wait! I forgot a woke crazy lady blaming Spanish Inquisition for altering history and inventing the Roman Empire that never was🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 smart dudes these Inquisitors, they had to invent an alphabet a language , rushing to create fake statues and monuments..🤣🤣🤣🤣 prejudice and modern media can be Atomic mix for bs🤣🤣🤣
@@David-zv5xm it's nonsense indeed but a dangerous and murderous one. The fact that people suffered and died for "race purity" doesn't make the concept any less silly, just makes the horrors in its name even more damn stupid and horrible
what about Rodolfo Valentino from Castellaneta, an immensely popular actor of a previous generation: was he considered black too?
Back then Anglo-Americans who saw Europeans with olive skin would not consider them White which is ridiculous. 😆
It’s not since many Italians back in ancient times were of aboriginal European and Aboriginal African descent along with Mulattos and Asians from West and East Asia ✊🏾 so they were spot on look up what Benjamin Franklin says about Europe and how swarthy the Europeans and Americans are 🤯
@@babyboy562Read history. Nothing you said was even remotely accurate.
They're not though. They're olive. That's what color they are. Matter of fact most white ppl aren't white.
@@jimmyalfonda3536 The correct word is Caucasian.
@@44excalibur no. That is not the correct word.
What would be interesting is the history of Italians from Argentina. When I worked at Dante's pizza in New Orleans my boss was from Argentina. I would assume they didn't have to assimilate there. Are they considered white too?
there are many areas of the state of california where jews, italians and irish teamed up to oppress and discriminate against black people (particularly in housing and employment opportunities). jews and italians teamed up in the san gabriel valley (southern california) and coastal regions (both northern and southern california), while the irish primarily concentrated in the central coast/northern border. the restrictive covenants/racism in housing set in place still have an impact TO THIS DAY on the types of housing black californians have access to, which also affect life chances. later, these groups also invited asians on ‘team white’ who furthered the discrimination against black people (especially in southern california)
Don’t forget Latinos are team ws against black people !
Lake View Terrace, CA 91342 & Pacoima, CA 91331 are relics.
You are reporting true history , Sarah.
Funny how you’ve erased the Mexican community entirely, just like education in the USA indoctrinates people.
@@bobbiewright1500oh yes, how did i forget to mention them; my mistake!!
Frank Sinatra was so cool! Jerry Lee Lewis also did a lot for integrating music.
So did Louis Prima.
Sinatra as a senior had a light complexion. He looked like a regular white guy.
Sinatra also had Mafia ties, which didn't help to dispel that aspect of the stereotype; however, the music business and others were deeply infiltrated by the Mob at that time, so he had no choice in certain instances. Though, it has been proven that he was a willing associate of some notorious gangsters from that era.
The Mob was deeply involved in many cases of election fraud, including well into the Kennedy(a fellow Catholoc) Era. The film "The Godfather" is based around many of these events.
Read Bill O’Reilly’s book “Killing the Mob” and you’ll learn how the mob had their fingers in everything, especially entertainment, such as the recording industry, sports.
And your point is what?
@@dinoz9932 It's self-explanatory.
You're Awesome thank you for your devotion for this cause. I hope you get a weekly PBS hour on television. 😊
Rudolph Valentino was arguably the biggest star of the silent film era, and he predates Frank Sinatra by about 20 years.
Wasn't Valentino in the closet?
@@mic187x2 There were a lot of rumors.
@@mic187x2 No
@@mic187x2 Valentino was fashionable. Wrist watches didn't become popular until Valentino was seen wearing them.
Sinatra was one of the greatest. He refused to perform in Vegas club because they didn't want to allow his black band members in.🇮🇹🙌🏽🇺🇸
Man, this channel is fascinating. The research you do and how you present is unrivaled. I didn't know Sinatra referred to himself as the "Top Wop" lol. That's basically what the blacks have done with the N (hard ER) word. Being black myself it usually makes me cringe hearing blacks at large calling each other that but the way people communicate is so bizzare I just have to laugh at it and keep it moving.
I appreciate that, I know it's controversial these days to try and talk about American identity without a political agenda but....we'll see how long Im allowed to hang out
One of my observations in noticing Black American and Black British and African etc collaborations on RUclips is seeing how much the Black americans use the word Ni**a in regular conversation while the Black British etc rarely do 😆.
@@nytnYou clearly have an agenda, Italians were always considered White. The fact that some people didn’t like them is not an argument.
no agenda. I am not even a democrat or a republican. i just started reading newspapers from the time (late 1800s/early 1900s) and was surprised
I didn't create the term African American as a replacement for the term black, but as a repudiation of it.
The DNA test gives a scientific estimate of one's ethnic background. If your DNA estimate says you're Italian, and your familial history aligns with that fact, you cannot rely on others to validate what you know to be true. You can claim Italian history, culture, and food as your own.
If you are from Southern Louisiana and do not have French ancestry, you are not Creole. The term Creole means descended from France and if not that, any mixed person from Louisiana can claim Creole, eg the Irish or Germans.
I like this channel. When I was a kid my grandmother always referred to some members of my family as "mavras" which means black or darker skinned. People in my family range from quite white to olive to light brown.
I've found some old immigration papers from around 1900 and one grandfather was listed as "semi colored"...I've never heard that term!
We originated from the eastern Greek Islands and Cyprus. When I ran my DNA the map was colored from the Balkans thru Greece and Turkey well into the Middle East...I wonder who these ancestors were, where they came from and how they met, especially since I always thought Greeks and Turks and other Muslim people were ancient enemies...
Actually, in my humble opinion...The Italians shown on the big screen, in "Peplum" movies, helped Italians to be respected and move up quite a bit in the "Hierarchy to "Whiteness" and this was helped with their names changed or shortened to sound more "American", or mainstream English acceptable non-ethnic names. I remember many changed their names, just as some of the German-Jewish people did just this. In America, the goal is to have a permanent underclass...And that is usually Black/African. Movies, with some ethnic Italians ranking over other Blacks and in sports, and positive visibility, helped to reinforce this. I have heard more epithets, but they rarely used the word"Guinea" any longer. Frank Sinatra was a great man, and so were his kids, and many others who were Anti-racists and helped during the civil rights quite a bit were totally identifying Italians across America at my time. Peace
If you look at old newspaper clippings it will tell you how “white” people felt about Sicilians and how they described them as working alongside good white people . My great grandfather was Sicilian and he favored your grandfathers facial features but was not considered white by any means and didn’t identify that way from what I hear . On top of living in the south where lynchings and prejudice were the norm . Great channel . Keep up the good work .
you are right, newspapers from the time period tell the whole truth!
You touched upon an interesting facet of America's discrimination. Not only on ethnicity but color bias that is not often found in Europe. Many American's seem to think the blonder you are the better and the darker your hair is the scarier for some reason despite having light skin. Just look how blonde women (with blue or green eyes) are treated vs very dark haired women that seem too sinister or powerful...
Sinatra had brown skin. You have to find the candid/not posing/unedited photos of him. I think he may have bleached his skin also. I have photos where he is clearly a ruddy brown man
That’s what I was finding as well!
I had seen a pic of JFK being very ruddy
@@Crimetimex79 ruddy brown is a specific color. Please look it up to see for yourself. Frank Sinatra was a ruddy brown complexioned Italian. This is indisputable; research his young photos
He could be just tanned. Most of Italians tan real dark , enough said that when I went to Salento (Apulia) in summer streets looked almost like home, crowded with people even darker than me(South Nigerian). 😳 In winter , it was gone , the same people turned back to milk 😳
@@elleanna5869press X to doubt🤣
This is probably true for Armenians too.
My adoption by an Armenian father and Irish mother : i didn't see my dad as anything but white, but he did have olive skin color very similar to Italians.
His parents had lighter skin color in the white range, but they didn't go in the sun.
My dad also had white friends growing up in Philadelphia and was in a the local neighborhood gang for protection in the 30's .
No problems as he was in the Army for 22 years: we were in Texas for one year but lived in officers quarters in 1963 .
Mixed marriages black/ white had to live on post because it would have caused problems off post.
So , there might have been some discrimination, but in California it wasn't apparent to me.
As i am white: with 16% Italian DNA, which i never knew until I took a DNA test.
"It's hard to imagine a time when Italian-Americans were not considered a part of the white race". As a 62 yr old Italian American I've always considered myself American of Italian ancestry. Some friends like to ball bust with that line about "the moors" aka being black African however the moors were from Northern Africa and were Arab-Muslims.
I am bad at expressing myself without ticking people off, but I do appreciate your channel. Part of the "whitening" process doesn't make me particularly proud, but history can't (or better said shouldn't be) erased. Just learned from.
I am 100% down with Sinatra day instead of Columbus day
Wow, Imagine the favor owed to Ava Gardner for getting Frank into From Here to Eternity.
Many older Italian Americans do act like a stereotype. My older brother married a girl whose father was born in italy. When he spoke he sounded like a character from a mob movie (in his voice only he never used words that a mob figure would use).
@nytn Have you seen the film Cabrini?
not yet!
I am watching many of videos about the american "whitening" of many groups. I have been wondering if perhaps the next group to undergo this may be lighter skinned latinos. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Thoughtful analysis. In terms of media conditioning I thought of the film Saving Private Ryan, and how it overtly and subtly was actually about the Americanizing the “ethnic” American through the bonding experience of war. Of course the segregation of Black military units made it the perfect reflection of American society.
Italians were always white on arrival in the US. That they assimilated into the mainstream American culture does not mean that they changed race.
I agree! White is not a race though
@@nytn Well European then or whatever in that time being "white" meant. Chattel Slavery for example was race based.
@@nytnI love how you refuted yourself🤣
I have done some deep dives on this on the channel. My viewers know that when I say "white race" it's in air quotes, because white was a legal status that immigrants had to go to court for. I covered a lot of those supreme court cases on the channel last summer. I took for granted in this video that some people still think a color= a race. I should have clarified for them, thanks!
Americans labeling everyone forever. 🤷
The problem is they were also catholic
All new arrivals in a new land are generally relegated to "menial"/manual labor. It's not unique to any particular group.
Danielle thanks a lot for this great and interesting video. Un abbraccio e un grande saluto. I really love your work. Keep it up! Blessings 🙏☮️💟🌺🌸🌷🌼
Thank you! 😃
@@nytnWelcome ♥️🤗
Danielle, if you are ever interested in reading a book on Columbus, this is the one that I would suggest: Columbus and the Quest for Jerusalem, by Carol Delaney. I read it last year, and it was such a great read packed with information. - I know you love history and I do too…
I'll check it out!
Divide, and then conquer. This is the story of humans. Thus, I'd think that Sinatra's anti racism stance may have actually helped Italians become white. Just a thought.
Sinatra was ahead of his time in regard to integration. Deano's daughter also dated David Ruffin of the Temptations. I recall the Dean Martin Show in my early childhood of the 1970s. I also watched his early film with Jerry Lewis. However, the key is "ahead of his time". Sinatra made jokes in his shows that would be considered politically incorrect today at best. The far left "wokeism" would cancel him. But for his time, Sinatra was progressive and liberal in regard to fighting integration. That's impressive that the "Rat Pack" threatened to cancel shows if Sammy Davis Jr. wasn't allowed inside. So, I think Sinatra should be remembered for the context of the time he lived in and how he helped civil rights.
Some Sicilian have that blue eye gene. Looks different from germania blue. My dad had ice blue eyes. His siblings all had black eyes, lìķe mine
I think it's important to highlight, no matter how hard people once were fearful of preserving their cultural heritage, And no matter how much they tried to assimilate... The italian american subculture will never be erased from this nation. And that's something to truly be proud of.
No matter how hard italian americans that are in denial of their heritage and their beautiful culture are, they will never erase all the unique flavor and flair, they gave this nation. We are alive and well, and I think this is what bothers a lot of Anglo white americans.
We have a culture that is completely separate from Anglo America, even if we learned how to integrate into Anglo society
And personally, that should be the actual goal of immigration. Immigration shouldn't mean cultural erasure. It should actually mean integration, while also identifying how important preserving your ethnic heritage is
And I would say at large. Italian Americans did a nice job doing this. Because you still can't go anywhere in this nation. And not see the imprint Italian Americans have had in very diverse ways on the pop culture of the united states... In food in coffee, culture and entertainment, and all over.
What I don't understand is people can't say that they have over assimilated, because you can say the same thing about Mexican Americans or Greek Americans. Or jews. How are they not accepted into mainstream america?
The answer is they are, and there's always a caveat that people will try to argue, but yet will dismiss the italian american experience.
This whole idea of acceptance by white America is annoying to me. Because what does that actually mean? And look like?
You're telling me certain immigrant groups still aren't accepted in america? Again what does that mean?
Because the last time I checked, certain groups are more presently accepted than italian americans ever were. My ancestors couldn't speak their language now. It's an asset to speak another language
Just like you can walk all over the united states and see italian american influence in the restaurants, you can do the same for mexican food
If You Really Want To Know Truth About Your Italian Ancestry, Then Dig Into Who The Etruscans Were
@@etruscancivilization
My friend you keep on telling everybody painted "black" race but Etruscans look really white, not even always brunette- in frescos, funerary art, statues..And people in those area still look often a lot like them today😳I didn't see my reflection (I am Nigerian) seeing the art of Etruscan necropolis
@@etruscancivilizationwhy have they yet to find DNA of these sub Saharan Etruscans concerning grave goods? Where are all the subsaharan artifacts? Anotherwords where is the genetic and archeological evidence to backup your claims?
@@etruscancivilization I still think you are a bit confused about genetics, archaelogy and history and history of art...But no problem is the norm in US education.
@@KingCatsTube full disclosure: there isn't any but in order to look inclusive nobody dares to say it in US colleges and universities. A 2021 Max Planck Institute study says that they probably were indigenous , from Italic Villanoviani. Former speculations such as Herodotus that they were indoeurpean stuff from Anatolia . Btw artifacts show mainly Greek and Oriental influences . They weren't viking looking dudes.But unless you aren't American, this is not enough to make them "black" , even less Africa related. (They could even have had a lot of Neanderthal, given their geographical position 😳)
@@etruscancivilization I left Nigeria but via African/European partnerships in education. Specifically Dakar / Milan La Statale/ Paris 8me (st. Denis) Universities collabs , and La Sapienza for Bachelor in antiquity (keeping it real, history is a whole universe, antiquity is a whole galaxy, you can't live enough to be a specialist in *every* time and place - so I focused on Africa / mediterranean/ near Asia ). The academic reputation of these places is strong , can't be absolutely accused of being "Eurocentric" . Africa never left my radar, is just the *real* Africa not the confused myth in American lore and politically biased imagination
As a society, we should prioritize the quality and character of people rather than focusing on race. Emphasizing race is too restrictive. Only ignorant individuals place excessive emphasis on race, and archaeological findings indicate that humanity originated in Africa. Different human characteristics developed as adaptations to various climates. Even for those who believe in the creationist theory, it is important to recognize that Adam and Eve could not have been white. At one point, some religious extremists falsely claimed that Black people originated from the line of Cain. It is unwise to categorize people, as this only leads to foolishness.
In Islam, they still have hadith where it's written black people are from the Devil's hand.
Love Sinatra's voice & talents.
It’s no surprise that darker Italian singers like Louie Prima were much less successful than these two, they appealed more to average Americans while Prima presented as very Mediterranean or Latino looking.
Love Louis prima though! ESP in the jungle book as King Louis 😅
I truly don’t believe it was Frank Sinatra alone. Before his time, Italians were treated with utter disrespect. They were persecuted, segregated and even “deleted” by other European groups in America 🇺🇸. Once the Sicilians formed their “Families” and started “handling their business”, the same European groups that bothered them before backed off, they now feared them and started showing respect. As the Italian economic base continued to grow they gained more and more respect. Let’s get real…money talks and who could make more money faster than the Italians in America ? So, “if you can’t beat them, join them”. So the other European groups decided to “accept them into the fold”. But…even today you hear racial slurs made about Italians, so are they truly accepted or is it that they are respected ? Many Italians/Sicilians have melanated skin. That’s not the same as being “White”…
What about the Yankees Joe DiMaggio , everybody knows Joe D born in 1914 to Italian Parents from Sicily . 3 time AL MVP "The Yankee Clipper "how did he play baseball if Italians were so "persecuted " Jackie Robinson ,who didn't get a chance until 1947 because of his color . Keep it real please
Jesse Owens was at Berlin Games, 1936. Representing the US. Were black people having it easy for that in the US?
@@elleanna5869 black players were not allowed to play MLB ,and plenty of Italians did . In fact, Joe had a brother Dom who played MLB as well .My point was if they were viewed like black Americans then they would have been prohibited from MLB as well .
@@elleanna5869 no blacks could play MLB until Jackie Robinson Italians could and Joe's brother Dom played MLB as well at the same time .If Italians had it as bad then they would have been prohibited from the MLB as well was my point
@@5Antvin I get it, Italians had it a looot easier. Their pass to whiteness was costy and required about a century to be "officially" acquired. While black people had to wait way more to end segregation and enjoying full civil rights. My points here are 1) I don't consider individual exploits as proof that a whole community is doing fine . Or all black billionaires around in the US shut the conversation on black community sufferings 2) I don't think that even when you "officially" join the club of success and aknowledged rights, prejudice against you istantly disappear . Sure enough Di Maggio even with all his talent and success wasn't seen by all wasp environment like "truly" one of them. Btw the goal of the channel is not equating Italian and other ethnicities troubles with black community struggle. Obviously you (we , black but not American here)hit the hardest with Waspness wall. The conversation we are having here is about unmasking the "rules" of assimilation and the hypocrisy of prejudice
Another great episode. I learned so much today. WOW
Assimilation is a drug, to most people. We want to belong and live “our best lives “.
This! You probably wrote the best summary of all the crazy social stuff 🙌🏾
In general you don't really see Italian discrimination during times of prosperity. Before Sinatra was even born Enrico Caruso was belting out opera and was possibly one of the first male super stars. Followed by a host of Italian singers and of course the Italian actor Rudolf Valentino was a super star.. In fact up until the 1930's it was a big bonus if you were Italian which caused singers to pretend to be Italian like Rudy Valee who became the first radio super star who invented crooning of which a young Sinatra imitated. (An Italian copying a French Canadian American pretending to be an Italian.) I think it was bad economics and lack of jobs that really brought out the discrimination and attacks against the Italians. First in poorer areas of the U.S. during the great depression of the 1890's and again during the great depression of the 1930's. Of course WWII and Italy being a Nazi ally didn't help any.
Italians were always white and considered/treated white in America. Proof is that they fought alongside white soldiers during WW2 and not segregated like Black soldiers, Italians were given public accommodations along with other whites in the Jim Crow south (e.g., an Italian could drink from a white water fountain , stay in a white hotel and be treated at a white hospital), a young Frank Sinatra openly serenaded blondes in 1940s movies, he also openly dated sought after white starlets like Lana Turner with no problems (unlike Sammy Davis Jr who almost lost his life doing the same). These are/were characteristics whiteness or "privileges" of whites in mid-20th century America. Yes, Italians may have been considered lower on the White totem pole (or hierarchy) in comparison to WASPs, yet as "ethnic" whites, Italians were generally treated as white similar to the Polish and Jews. Again, Italians were always white and generally treated as such especially in comparison to Blacks...let's not get it twisted.
Yes that is never addressed in these videos. They were always legally white in the US.
Not always , in 19th century and early 20th century there were states in the US that considered them coloured , people were discriminated on every level , there were lynching and a lot of hate. R*ping a South Italian woman could be judged in courts a minor crime compared to abusing a white woman. They honestly had a hard time that brought even Italian government to protest (and this helped a bit). Black people had it a lot moooore harder, but Italians weren't easily always white and had to pay their "whiteness pass" to WASP club
@@elleanna5869No they were always White, nobody considered them "colored" meaning Negro
@@jbstarkiller4626 some states did consider them such , meaning just colored not "negro" . As other un-wasp ethnicities.Once again, when the conversation is about other people enduring discrimination why do you assume that somehow this belittles or "twists" black Americans experience? It rather shows the opposite. If even people 100℅ Europeans endured troubles to access the "holy" Waspness of prosperity and integration , how troubling things were and can be still today for you (in theory, us- but I am an African living in Europe and thankfully things are too blurred here for "wasp" to be a thing)
@@elleanna5869 None of that is true, colored means negro and Italians are not that. Don’t worry blacks weren’t oppressed either. "WASP" is 100% a thing in Europe their called the English🤣
“Wop” = with out papers
The Lynch Italians because Italians have brown skin and white people didn't think that they were white! The only time they think Italians are white is when the Italians start marrying white people and their kids look more Anglo than Italian.
Nowadays, most self-proclaimed Italians in America already look Anglo Saxon. Just like the Irish.
Southern Italians aren't considered "Italian" by many Italians north of Rome to this day. They genetically distinct groups, as well.
But also in Southern Italy there are many light skinned, blonde haired and light eyed ppl, due to the Norman domination. And in the North there are some who instead are darker skinned with dark brown or black hair and eyes. Let's remember that Lombardia was ruled by Spain for a long period of time.
@@StratOCasterMIJ90 for phenotypes, they aren't that easy to tell. The extremely blond , Brits like or even Scandinavia, were always minority in the North. And extreme dark skin was also minority in the South. Italians aren't "2 distintct genetically groups", this still stinks of Lombroso lies. Italians are a "congerie" of genes and ironically the (small percentage) present "Africanness" is the one from North Africa (not black enough for the sake of US boxes). The only striking difference between Northerners and Southerners(edit: and contrary to popular belief, this doesn't show that much on looks , rather changes something for health ) is in the concentration of Neanderthal material in Northerners. But to make an example, pick French icon ultra classy Gerard Philipe- and you meet dudes looking alike easily in Sicily. Dirk Bogarde, Patric MacNee, Keith Richards- they have all several doppelgangers in Southern Italy , and in North too. Rather than race/phenotype as two blocks of colour, better think to a very elaborate kilt pattern (17 millions genetic variants!)
@@Galidorquest Irish cluster genetically with Scots, English and Welsh. They are Insular Celts like the Scots and Welsh. Irish looks the same as other people in the British Isles. Not sure what you are saying. Also these videos are odd in trying to make out people became "white". Italians just like the Irish were always legally white. It's not like they changed their race when they came to the US. Being discriminated against happened to whites as well.
Yes, "WOP, with a "W", stands for "With Out Papers"(illegal immigrant). "Guapo" is Spanish and starts with a "G", not a "W" and Italians were certainly not considered "Handsome"/"Guapo" by the majority of Americans as a matter of course.
Guappo (with two p's) is from the Neapolitan dialect for a thug or a handsome stud. (my family was from Naples). It is really pronounced "wah-po" though
Guappo is a napolitan term: in Naples, the guappo was the hero of the neighborhood: a sort of popular Robin Hood, but also a commoner who dressed extravagantly and with excessive ostentation.
He represents the image of the gentlemanly and romantic man of honor, ready to settle disputes between people and convince young men who had impregnated some girl to settle down and marry her.
The income and respect derived from the guappo for its practice of protecting the inhabitants of a neighborhood from the abuses committed by criminals in the area or neighboring areas.
Spanish language is a ROMANce language and is Latin based and Italian is modern Latin so the Spanish would have most likely borrowed the word from the Italians.
I have a video coming out on this term. im so glad it matches what you said! I should have asked you first. @giorgiodifrancesco4590
@giorgiodifrancesco4590
@@bluetinsel7099 No. In this case is the napolitan who borrowed from the spanish. In that last language guapo (with a p) means beautiful, but came from the latin "vappa" prononced "wahp-pah" that means slacker.
Elvis Presley dyed his hair to be moore Italian ,due to the fact of the popularity of the Italian American singers at the time
There is no hope
For those who say they woke 😡
Frank Sinatra did not look southern Italian. I was in my 30's when he died. I saw him on TV singing many times. His hair was light brown that I remember but of course he was probably gray and dyed light brown from when I remember him. I am in my early 70's. As far as dark skin, everybody used to tan. Hollywood people would go to tanning beds. Was he 100% Italian or perhaps half? If his mother was fair skinned Irish or Scandanavian he would have been lighter. I am guessing Irish. They were usually both catholic and often intermarried. Americans hated the Irish too at the turn of the 20th century. Now Dean Martin did look southern Italian. You know Colin Farrow on Good Morning America? Many believe he is actually Sinatra's son because he looks very much like him and Mia Farrow was married to Frank at one time, but she stayed friends with Sinatra. She was supposed to be with Woody Allen when he was born. Colin was born a good many years after their divorce not long before Frank died. One thing for sure he does not look anything like Woody Allen.
I forgot, Jerry Lewis was also!😊
Jerry Lewis was a Jew.
You can't even distinguish a Russian Jew from an Italian.
Jerry Lewis was Jewish
I still say he’s Mia Farrows son’s father. I mean just look at the two of them!
The government played “races” against each other. We need to remember what the game is.
I’m sorry but Top WOP is gangster AF 😂
From Dino Paul Crocetti to Dean Martin
Makes me sad that Dean Martin changed his nose. The Italian nose is a great one.
I always felt surprised that I didn’t have a distinct Italian nose! I agree
Ray Romano has that nose !
Lil Caesar nose? Pizza pizza
Proof that whiteness is a political, social and economic construct. They decide who is white and who is not. This ain’t about melanin. It’s about lineage. Thanks for your videos.
Columbus was an explorer and discovered the new world (not known at that time to the Europeans). On the other hand, Sinatra was an icon and made great music. If I had to pick between the two as far as a national holiday, I would go with Columbus. I’m not “woke” at all and I like relevance, impact, and achievement; and when judging the past, I think it is important to look at things and judge based on their era and from their perspective and not so much from the era and the perspective that we live in today.
Just so you know its was the Norse that discovered America first for europeans. Look up “Vinland” if we are going to give that title to anyone then it should be them.
Where did Columbus get his maps from? I suggest you research The Doctrine of Discovery. Discover didn't mean they first found out the lands were there. It meant that if they went to lands where they discovered no Christians living there, they could take the land and the non Christians and do what they wanted with them.
I agree, I dont have the vitriol towards CC that most people have, but I dont get it either. Why is HE "THE" icon for italian americans? He did it under the Spanish flag, and never stepped foot on US territory...
@@nytn Didn't you do a video on the origin of Columbus Day in the United States? If you haven't you should. Supposedly he was born in Genoa, Italy. I don't think anyone really knows anything about his real birth. When you go back that far everything is shrouded in myth.
@@sr2291 I did! I tried my best to untangle it, but I have not done one on him specifically, just why we have the holiday
Please define "white"
exactly
@@etruscancivilization Are melanated people less intelligent based on degrees of melanin? In other words are lighter skin races unequivocally more intelligent?
@@etruscancivilization: “…a people who were the last to evolve into civilized humanity…” This is this person’s definition of “white” - Now I would call that pseudoscience (maybe Afro-centrism re-engineered history - kinda sounds like it), and the purist form of racism that one could express in words without the slurs!
@@etruscancivilization I would say that "white" as any identity is not static. In the US means "wasp" . And it meant specifically "wasp with money", because in the US "race" is a whole bag of tricks to grab as much money (and land and power) you can and possibly pass it to your children .
On a genetical frame, white is range that doesn't come with just one ancestry. Yes they have on average more Neanderthal than us but paleontology is a bad guidance for history and ethnicity. We Africans , also the ones from sub-saharan regions (meaning literally "located under the Sahara", no race thing involved in "sub") , were found to possess more Neanderthal material than previously thought. Showing that there has been a lot more mixing , walking out of Africa and back again than previously thought. (In Italy btw just for trivia...the Neanderthal material is concemtrated in norhern Italians)
@@nytnWhite means European🤦🏻♂️
Romans ?
FYI: where I come from, wop was the equivalent of the N word. I would never utter that word.
Just sayin.
"Sticks and Stones"......if word hurt your feelings, you need to grow up and toughen up. "W.O.P." simply means "With Out Papers".
Wop is closer to wet b%^k in my opinion. The slur closer word to the N-word would be guinea which is directed at Italians with African ancestry.
Guappo (with two p's) is from the Neapolitan dialect for a thug or a handsome stud. (my family was from Naples). It is really pronounced "wah-po" if you are saying it right
@@nytn
The only time I’ve heard it spoken was as a pejorative, certainly not complimentary.
But, que sera…
OMG, my mom had olive skin and brown eyes and dark hair, she was Croatian, French and Russian Jew. Her whiteness was never an issue or questioned. Why are people more obsessed with skin color now that they've ever been in my almost 65 years of life? It's what's in a person's heart and mind that matter, I feel like the world is becoming more superficial every day. I'm so bored with race, unless you're talking about the human race.
I’m a historian and I’m also trying to understand my family’s experience here in America. Why didn’t we learn Italian? Why didn’t I know about my African ancestry from Louisiana? History is the only way to understand.
@@nytn Yes, I really do get it, and oddly, it was 60 years ago so it took a minute to remember this, but I had to come back and tell you, when I was 5, I actually thought my mom's mom was black! She was Croatian with dark skin and old and skinny from diabetes and depression, and was so emotionally beaten down by my grandfather, that I think that played in to my thinking she was black! We were in Salt Lake City in the 60s, and I didn't even know one black person then, might have seen one or two, but even at 5 I knew that black people were not treated the way people I knew were treated, my grandfather was used racist language, even though we lived in a pretty much all white world. And my white son's partner is Black, White & Native American, adopted and raised by whites, identifies as black because that's easiest to see. I wish we could get past color or origin mattering, but you're right - that can only happen if we understand where we are and how we got there. Now I remember why I subbed to you, lol. 😂❤
What's really laughable is the obsession the self proclaimed whitest of the have with getting the darkest possible suntan!my prediction: in 2to 3 mor generations is that olive tinted white -ish skin tone will be all the rage with all the superficial people. All are God's children& the rs ther is such a thing as improved hybrid vigor.
@@nytn Because Italian isn't a native/founding language of America. Your family should've taught you the language, if they wanted you to learn it, but they realized it wasn't of much practical value in a country that spoke 97% English. The same is true with your African ancestry. Your own family chose not to teach you about it. America was founded for, of, and by "White"(WASPs) people. Remember, Germans, Scandis and the Irish weren't even "White Enough" despite being literally the Whitest of all. It's as political as it is personal. America is/was the land of "assimilation", not the land of "everybody pretend we're still in the Old Country".
@@B.b.b... If your mother was a Jew, then that makes you a Jew, which means you aren't "White", regardless of your own self-assigned "identity".
And in Italy Africans are discriminated
💯🍕
Wow 😮 your grandpa was dark!
I remember wondering how he was "white" if he was darker than some "black" people he was standing next to. LOL
I would gladly celebrate Frank Sinatra Day over the current one.
Seriously, I feel like pushing for this
Frank Sinatra is the only Italian who possessed human qualities.
What?
I like Danielle's videos, but this one especially shows her youth and ignorance of how things were handled in the late 19th century and first half of the 20th century. Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin aren't examples of 'whitening', rather they're examples of deliberate, enthusiastic assimilation that was normal for that generation, and not exclusive to those with Italian heritage. I have ancestry from 6 European countries, and even my ancestors from German-speaking Switzerland who came over in 1887 changed the spelling of their surname to make the English pronunciation match the German (changing a 'j' to a 'y').
I actually agree with what you say here, I don’t think the video contradicts it. I just focused on Italians in particular