Great content, i really looked forward to this video. Please try putting fasteners further apart next time. Whatever impact going 2nd (surge in this instant) has a disadvantage because it's driving a screw next to another screw which is acting like a serrated wedge (since you didn't pre drill) that wedging makes the wood denser in the immediate surrounding area. It's best to screw further away (1.5" minimum) or remove the first fastener before proceeding to other impact or drill. I can appreciate that your screws & bolts from each impact are near to one another so that relative wood density doesn't create an advantage for either. However, be mindful that even within a small section the growth rings have varying hardness/densities (the color variance within each ring has a large light section and a dark thinner line part) the thinner darker aspect of each growth ring is denser so placing fasteners evenly between rings offers least bias or advantage to either impact. Watch your video at 14:47 as surge removes that fat lag bolt, it makes easy work of it being that you already released relative tension on the grain by removing the neighboring lag first--which was way to close for accurate testing.
I've thought the same thing. The wood has GOT to be denser with the first fastener still in, especiallythat closetogether. I think removing it before driving the 2nd fastener in would elicit more accurate results.
Great review! Working inside on musical and sound equipment cabinets etc, the surge is smooth and SO much quieter, but about 5oz heavier on the belt. At 62 you notice that crap.. For general outside tool belt, the regular is just lighter and a tad faster. I just added the surge and really like it a lot, a great tool for sure! Thanks!!
I personally have bought and used the Surge, and I've mostly used it for fasteners in metal. It works great, and gas plenty power for most smaller bolts. I've some testing myself and it'll easily break grade 10.9 M6 bolts and severely damage M8 bolts if you let it rip. Would recommend.
Thanks for the video it helped to influence my purchase recently got the 2598-22 kit for $199 from HD. I’m already in the M18 & M12 lineup and I wanted to add to it. The biggest part for me was the difference in speed when driving fasteners. I also don’t need my tools to be quite since I’m already on loud job sites and not in a library.
I use the regular impact for everyday work. I absolutely adore it. I use it for completely unintended things, such as drilling 6 inch deep 7/8 inch holes. It kicks ass when I need it to in a pinch
I'm also invested in the Kobalt 24v line and they're fantastic tools. I recently jumped into the Milwaukee M12 line and picked up the M12 fuel hammer drill, impact driver, 3/8 ratchet, and 2 batteries for $229. Small tools with tons of power and when I need more kick, I'll grab my Kobalts.👍
@@Luigiz28 damn thats a good deal, I got the same thing and same price as you minus the extra 2 batteries.. still a good deal, waiting for it to arrive in the mail in 2 days
These both have their place. I'd use the Surge when working in an apartment, or in a house where the owner is still home while I am doing the work, or when working on a job site where I am in an enclosed location. I always wear hearing protection, but that doesn't mean the neighbors need to be disturbed, so I try to mitigate that.
@@ManCaverTools Exactly. But any time you introduce a medium between the two striking materials, there will be a reduced amount of force applied. But in the end, these are two great tools.
spoiler alert. surge is more quiet. runs hotter. and uses battery much faster. and has noticeably less power. but is better at controllability for guys who do a lot of dashboard work like flat rate dealership stuff. and the surge will make your hand go numb from vibrations while the other one will not. Very good tool comparison video thank you for making it.
@@ManCaverToolsYou are Welcome. I bought one after watching this video to see what will work better for me. Thanks again for the good tool comparison video.
What makes the surge really shine is if you try to screw into metal with tek screws. The regular impact is to fast and cams out. While the surge drives the screws perfectly without cam out
@Gerid Hagerman Hopefully you reply. My surge is absolute bs. Can’t even drive a 3/4 inch ductwork screw into so 30 gauge sheet metal. I’ve already sent it to Milwaukee service. Got it back just for it to have no difference. They just picked it up again for it to be serviced again. I’m wondering if I my surge is a lemon or if the surge just blows.
I use the m12 surge for metal fixings/self tappers, I find it fantastic for that type of work, as it is smoother and dose not over tighten the fixings, even if you don’t have it on self tapper mode.
I switched to the M12 surge from the gen 4 M18 fuel and the difference for driving fasters into sheet metal is crazy. My m18 would strip the living hell out of self tapping screws if you weren’t careful with trigger control, but with the surge I can full send the screw on speed 3 and haven’t stripped a single screw yet.
I owned both and sold the Fuel. I didn't buy the M12 impacts for the power, so trading power for the quieter operation makes the Surge my favorite. I have an M18 Fuel if I do need more power.
I’m curious when you are driving in screw’s that large and so close to each other wouldn’t it make the adjacent screw encounter more resistance cause you might be driving it into the first one?
@@ManCaverTools What he's saying is they're so close to each other that there's a possibility of one hitting or getting so close to each other. All that space you have, why not move it a bit further from the other?
I assume to fairly compare, there is hard/soft spots in wood like the difference between the heartwood and outer areas of the tree, you could separate more on cut timber for sure
Last Best Tool did a very key point between the two as the surge model allow you to slow the speed down when driving screws vs regular one can not do that
Some of those larger fasteners I just use the 18V impact wrench so for me the Surge wins with the quieter sound since usually I use up to 3" #8 screws and most of the time #6. Great test though. I was curious how much quieter it really was.
I have both m12 and m18 sure and reg driver. The m12 gets used most as I don't often need more power than they can deliver. Nice to have big brother on back up but I don't need a belt with the m12. They're VERY VERY comfy and I like the big grip more too. I bought the m18s for a reason though. They're all bad ass
I honestly was leaning really hard towards the regular m12 and so i searched for a video and after watching, I change my mind. Im going for the regular.
As a plumber i love dewalts one handed sawzall and dewalts oscilating tool is UNMATCHED due to the trigger and the blade change...but i just sold my dcs887 and hammer drill for the Milwaukee m12 impact and hammer drill set since its not like im driving anything bigger then a 2 1/2 inch drywall screw and my god that m12 impact is the best impact for what i need it for as a service plumber
Hi, I have both and i typically use the regular impact for outside work. I use the surge for indoor work. I still say, DeWalt has the best handle. Just wish they can come out with larger Ah batteries for their 12v line.
I'm going to disagree on this... The point of this line is to be light weight but still capable. 8 amp batteries in these tool would reach m18 with a 2.0 cp battery weights
From what I can hear the surge was equal when heavy load in noise loudness. With the 1/2 " lag the surge sounded louder than the impact. The battery usage and vibration are major concerns to me. I will by the impact.Great job comparing the old fashion way, from easy to max load.
Hi Dave, excellent video ty so much, both these are excellent quality tools, I like the brushless better cuz it’s known for better performance, I’m getting the m18 1/2 impact very soon, excellent quality video, ty, Bob,
With the way the surge mechanism is designed, it can't skip. The surge is limited by the viscosity of the oil in the chamber though. Higher viscosity will be quieter, but restrict speed. Lower viscosity will do the opposite. With the same motor it will always be slower though.
@@ManCaverTools Thank you sir, I watch most of your content. I really enjoy tool reviews, you’ve got good stuff. I really enjoy the vs videos, I have many battery platforms just because I enjoy different tools from different brands. Keep up the good work!
Dang dude I think you could have done quite a bit better job here. I wish you wouldn't have placed the bolts so close together that you got your socket stuck. I'm not for sure ( I am for sure) but that could effect the ability of the surge to drive that screw. Also I'm not sure why you didn't recharge the tools lol The reason people in the other reviews that you've seen make a point to show you that the tool is fully charged is because that affects the power or the actual torque that the tool can deliver. So obviously the surge wouldn't be quite as effective with the battery discharged.
Since I’ve been watching your channel I’ve only heard you not say “I’ve got mine right here” one time. And when you didn’t say it I was like wait what??!! He didn’t say it!
After nearly a year of using the M12 Surge over my M18 Brushless impact, I found myself using the Surge more. Not only because it's quiet, but it's actually what I need when I do service calls, especially in indoor environments such as offices, classrooms, or other areas where noise can be an issue. Granted it may not be powerful compared to the 2553, but it's enough to get my work done. Great video, as always!
Had m12 gen1, 2 M18 surge, m12 4in1 all stolen now m12 surge. All do the job fine blinds installation. Does everything asked except concrete walls, Saving up for a rotory hammer drill for that. M12 hammer drill will have to do but takes too long for all day use. Wish I still had the M18 surge or maybe they will come up with a M18 4 in 1.
I have the M12 Fuel and if you use it for small screws it's fine , but when using it for larger screws like 21/2" and up or lag bolts it Sucks , it has great power but the ergonomics of the handle are Horrible , besides the Fat handle, the trigger is low so when you start putting alot of forward pressure on the bigger screws and bolts the nose of the gun constantly dips on you causing your bits to strip and even fall off the screw head , its Retarded, it drives Me Nuts because I do like it , but that Low trigger kills it for me , I mean your probably better off using your middle finger on the trigger like Vince does at VCG Construction . If you match it up to another impact you can see the trigger is about 3/8" lower than the Makita's and DeWalt's trigger , most of these Milwaukee lovers won't tell you that because their such fanboys, but it is what it is , the ergonomics are Horrible.... just my 2 cents ...👍🛠🖖
After using my impact driver all day yesterday I want an M18 Surge now. But the power difference on paper is insane. 450in vs 2000in. I don't need 2000 but 450 seems really low. Maybe I'll just buy some Bluetooth earbuds instead lol
So the Surge clearly draws more power - gets hotter, runs battery down faster. Could be an issue for some folks... I'd be interested to know just how much torque was needed on the bigger screws, especially those 6-inch lags. Have you ever tried taking a measurement? Probably easiest to do by driving down till the head is almost kissing the top of the wood, then putting a torque meter of some kind on there and trying both forward and backward movement.
I always wondered why sometimes watching TTRs that no sound on the tools. Guess they are editing them out. Doesnt bother me I want to hear the different sounds I use one for work all day. Its quieter but i dont know if its enough to buy it if you already own the standard unless you work in office buildings wear you need to be quite as possible.
I think the Surge is amazing, but a lot of times it’s purpose is defeated by its application. Neither one of these should be driving 6”+ lags all day, and with the smaller fasteners, the m12 standard doesn’t need to impact as much because it’s more powerful, and therefore quieter 🤷♂️
Seems like the surge is better if you care about noise at all. I'm not buying an m12 tool for massive torque or anything, I can't see a situation where that extra little bit of power would make any difference. If you need more power then you probably need an m18.
Good video. Will say I clicked on it cause I thought by standard you meant brushed and wanted to see how the brushed went up against the surge. Still glad I watched.
I see on the back wall you have several brands I am considering purchasing. For woodworking and small jobs around the house, M12, Ryobi, Kobalt 24v...? What to buy?! I do projects here n there on weekends. But I can’t help but wonder if I went with the M12, would I feel like I wasted $ and shuda got the 18v or 24v?! They are all on sale. Help me decide :)
Im bit late but the m12 system is a powerhouse I’d say go m12 I’m a diesel technician and use the m12 3/8 stubby and let me tell you its my favorite tool I have it’s just a monster and it don’t weight as much it’s compact fits into places that a mid torque won’t trust me when I tell you these m12 tools won’t fail and won’t disappoint you
Listen , when it comes to Raw Power these are Awesome , But when it comes to Ergonomics they Suck. When your doing small to medium screws it's great , but ounce you start doing 21/2" - 3" and up it Sucks , and the reason , besides the Fat handle , is the Trigger , its Too Low , so when you start putting in the bigger screws and start using more pressure on the screw , the nose of the drill will drop and the bit will slip out of the screw , because your not able to put even pressure on the screw because of the Low Trigger , I mean its probably easier to use your middle finger that's how low it is. If you only do a few larger screws you probably won't even notice it , but if you have a lot of them you will definitely notice it and you'll start to strip out bits and screws because of it , it drove me nuts and I actually had to change to a different impact . So I would suggest going to the store and trying it out first before you buy it. I have XL hands and I'll tell you what , the new Dewalt 12v tools have Fantastic ergonomics and they are actually really nice And they have good power , not like the Milwaukee , but good .... just my two cents....👍🛠🖖
I agree, when it comes to Milwaukee m12 system the tool is thick and its harder to control than a smaller tool. the m12 Fuel hammer drill is almost the same size as the m18 Fuel hammer drill. so I understand where you are coming from
Upfront you said that you'd prefer the Surge if it was close in performance to the standard impact driver, why? So the Surge is quieter, so what? The standard driver is faster (so less time to produce noise), more powerful, cheaper, the battery seems to last longer and it doesn't send a load of vibrations into your hand. Seems pretty clear to me.
The 2853 on speed 1 was louder and higher sounding than the surge on speed 3. For car fasteners ( obviously not suspension level of fasteners) it's amazing
Great test, thanks! Would you say that you can runt the Surge without hearing protection? My Bosch 12V and Makita 18V Impact drivers is far to loud to use without hearing protection.
It took me a long time to finally get a hydraulic impact. I went with Makita, but I'll say, there isn't a video that does it justice. You would need a well calibrated high quality mic and speaker system to really properly capture the difference, but in person it is night and day. Technically, I think the Makita is right at the level where OSHA recommends hearing protection (assuming you're listening to it all day long), but it doesn't feel like I need hearing protection and it is FAR quieter than my other impact drivers.
I'm driving in 10" and 12" lag Bolts as we speak putting together 4x4 wood frame for a raised garden bed. For outside dirty work like that I use my Hitachi impact driver. It takes a minute, but drives them in nicely. It's a hell of a workout for the little Hitachi, bit it does it just fine.
Hey Dave I know we chatted like on 9 or 10 of your videos but I was wondering if you could do a review of the avid power 1/2 impact wrench from amazon, it claims to have 330 ft/lbs of torque but it also shows it in in/lbs as 4465 which equals 375 ft/lbs if so that be a big thank you
@@ManCaverTools what? I’m talking about an adapter to plug a battery powered tool into a wall, how would that make the tool bigger? If anything it’d be smaller without the hefty battery
@@ManCaverTools Really?! I guess I need to look that one up...I always assumed they only make high priced stuff. Just got the M12 Fuel (none-surge) combo kit at HD (first impact driver I have used) as my every day around the house set since I'm just a weekend worrior and don't think I'll need higher voltage stuff...so far I love them compared to my old 18V brushed Black & Decker for my DIY projects.
FYI- the surge outputs a lot more torque on setting 1, not 3. You should redo the test and put it on 1, it will drive that bolt all the way in no problem.
![Yailin La Mas Viral, @kreizyk.official - Dale 2 (Remix) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JaYHBzgqz94/mqdefault.jpg)
Great content, i really looked forward to this video. Please try putting fasteners further apart next time. Whatever impact going 2nd (surge in this instant) has a disadvantage because it's driving a screw next to another screw which is acting like a serrated wedge (since you didn't pre drill) that wedging makes the wood denser in the immediate surrounding area. It's best to screw further away (1.5" minimum) or remove the first fastener before proceeding to other impact or drill. I can appreciate that your screws & bolts from each impact are near to one another so that relative wood density doesn't create an advantage for either. However, be mindful that even within a small section the growth rings have varying hardness/densities (the color variance within each ring has a large light section and a dark thinner line part) the thinner darker aspect of each growth ring is denser so placing fasteners evenly between rings offers least bias or advantage to either impact. Watch your video at 14:47 as surge removes that fat lag bolt, it makes easy work of it being that you already released relative tension on the grain by removing the neighboring lag first--which was way to close for accurate testing.
excellent observation my thought exactly
I've thought the same thing. The wood has GOT to be denser with the first fastener still in, especiallythat closetogether. I think removing it before driving the 2nd fastener in would elicit more accurate results.
Just figured out why I like the M12 grip so much. The back curve in the grip is identical to a Glock 26.
That is an interesting comparison.
Haha
My daily carry and holy shit your right.
MF gangsta
@@Knuckles549 I feel sad for you, living in a country where you have to daily carry a weapon. Hope your country can sort out some gun control soon.
So glad you did this comparison! I've wanted to know real world difference, you rock! My 12v tools are M12, and 18v are Makita.
I thank you Christopher :) and more videos will be coming
I wish I could do the same, but it’s so much easier to stick to M18’s and use the same charger
i do the same
I have 20v dewalt tools and want m12 tools
Should have spaced out the timberlok screws, the added pressure in the wood surrounding the screw might have increased the friction for the surge
A lot of people just don’t think that way but this is true what you say
Great review! Working inside on musical and sound equipment cabinets etc, the surge is smooth and SO much quieter, but about 5oz heavier on the belt. At 62 you notice that crap.. For general outside tool belt, the regular is just lighter and a tad faster. I just added the surge and really like it a lot, a great tool for sure! Thanks!!
due to this comparison just ordered the Gen 3, don't really care about the short term noise disadvantage and really appreciated the lesser price
I personally have bought and used the Surge, and I've mostly used it for fasteners in metal. It works great, and gas plenty power for most smaller bolts. I've some testing myself and it'll easily break grade 10.9 M6 bolts and severely damage M8 bolts if you let it rip. Would recommend.
Thanks for the video it helped to influence my purchase recently got the 2598-22 kit for $199 from HD. I’m already in the M18 & M12 lineup and I wanted to add to it. The biggest part for me was the difference in speed when driving fasteners. I also don’t need my tools to be quite since I’m already on loud job sites and not in a library.
you are welcome and I thank you for viewng Jac
I use the regular impact for everyday work. I absolutely adore it. I use it for completely unintended things, such as drilling 6 inch deep 7/8 inch holes. It kicks ass when I need it to in a pinch
very good, it definitely has the power
The M12 Fuel is such an impressive tool line. If I wasn't invested Kobalt and Ryobi I would be into knee deep into this system.
I'm also invested in the Kobalt 24v line and they're fantastic tools. I recently jumped into the Milwaukee M12 line and picked up the M12 fuel hammer drill, impact driver, 3/8 ratchet, and 2 batteries for $229. Small tools with tons of power and when I need more kick, I'll grab my Kobalts.👍
I want Roybi to make a good 12v system
@@Luigiz28 damn thats a good deal, I got the same thing and same price as you minus the extra 2 batteries.. still a good deal, waiting for it to arrive in the mail in 2 days
@@Mixwell1983 You're going to love them. The impact driver is a beast
These both have their place. I'd use the Surge when working in an apartment, or in a house where the owner is still home while I am doing the work, or when working on a job site where I am in an enclosed location. I always wear hearing protection, but that doesn't mean the neighbors need to be disturbed, so I try to mitigate that.
and that is why they made it :) and I thank you for the your input Jeremiah
@@ManCaverTools Exactly. But any time you introduce a medium between the two striking materials, there will be a reduced amount of force applied. But in the end, these are two great tools.
spoiler alert. surge is more quiet. runs hotter. and uses battery much faster. and has noticeably less power. but is better at controllability for guys who do a lot of dashboard work like flat rate dealership stuff. and the surge will make your hand go numb from vibrations while the other one will not.
Very good tool comparison video thank you for making it.
I thank you Blind
@@ManCaverToolsYou are Welcome. I bought one after watching this video to see what will work better for me. Thanks again for the good tool comparison video.
What makes the surge really shine is if you try to screw into metal with tek screws. The regular impact is to fast and cams out. While the surge drives the screws perfectly without cam out
I still need to do a lot more tests with driving is screws through metal
Thank you. I'm sold on buying the surge now.
I wouldn’t trade my surge for the little bit of faster speed that the regular one achieves. I absolutely love that tool
that is good and I thank you for viewing Gerid
@Gerid Hagerman Hopefully you reply. My surge is absolute bs. Can’t even drive a 3/4 inch ductwork screw into so 30 gauge sheet metal. I’ve already sent it to Milwaukee service. Got it back just for it to have no difference. They just picked it up again for it to be serviced again. I’m wondering if I my surge is a lemon or if the surge just blows.
@@donutboy25 I use mine for that exact thing and also much heavier stuff daily so I’m thinking you may have a lemon
@@geridrh maybe uses it on high speed instead of 1
I use the m12 surge for metal fixings/self tappers, I find it fantastic for that type of work, as it is smoother and dose not over tighten the fixings, even if you don’t have it on self tapper mode.
I switched to the M12 surge from the gen 4 M18 fuel and the difference for driving fasters into sheet metal is crazy. My m18 would strip the living hell out of self tapping screws if you weren’t careful with trigger control, but with the surge I can full send the screw on speed 3 and haven’t stripped a single screw yet.
Got the surge about a year ago by far one of my favorite tools
Just picked up the surge kit. Looking forward to work this week.
very good and I thank you for viewing Clinton
I owned both and sold the Fuel. I didn't buy the M12 impacts for the power, so trading power for the quieter operation makes the Surge my favorite. I have an M18 Fuel if I do need more power.
That is good and I am glad that Milwuakee made a tool for people that need to be a quite as possible and I thank you for viewing Dale
I’m curious when you are driving in screw’s that large and so close to each other wouldn’t it make the adjacent screw encounter more resistance cause you might be driving it into the first one?
Glad you brought this up... Thanks!
it doesn't create that much pressure when it comes to driving in the next screw or lag
@@ManCaverTools What he's saying is they're so close to each other that there's a possibility of one hitting or getting so close to each other. All that space you have, why not move it a bit further from the other?
I was thinking the same thing
I assume to fairly compare, there is hard/soft spots in wood like the difference between the heartwood and outer areas of the tree, you could separate more on cut timber for sure
Last Best Tool did a very key point between the two
as the surge model allow you to slow the speed down when driving screws vs regular one can not do that
It's obvious this guy had a couple of Jack Daniels.
lol
Yeah. He can't hold a tool straight.
That Surge is nice, like the Ridgid Stealth Force. I like the quieter tools. Keep up the great work.
I will be getting the m18 version as well so I can test it against the ridged
@@ManCaverTools I'm looking forward to that
Thanks for the video and comments. I have the older m12 Fuel impact from 6 years ago. I’ll run that until it dies.
very good and I thank you for viewing Brian
Some of those larger fasteners I just use the 18V impact wrench so for me the Surge wins with the quieter sound since usually I use up to 3" #8 screws and most of the time #6. Great test though. I was curious how much quieter it really was.
I have both m12 and m18 sure and reg driver. The m12 gets used most as I don't often need more power than they can deliver. Nice to have big brother on back up but I don't need a belt with the m12. They're VERY VERY comfy and I like the big grip more too. I bought the m18s for a reason though. They're all bad ass
Might not be big difference in the video audio, but if your in person you gonna love the surge it extremely quiet
I sticking with my m12 fuel after this video. Thanks
I picked up the regular Fuel. Didn't care about the slightly quieter operation. I'd rather have the extra speed!
I honestly was leaning really hard towards the regular m12 and so i searched for a video and after watching, I change my mind. Im going for the regular.
Now you need to test the m-18 fuel and the m-18 surge
yes sir :)
just got the surge and its alittle less poweeful but so much quieter and soft on your hands and wrist
As a plumber i love dewalts one handed sawzall and dewalts oscilating tool is UNMATCHED due to the trigger and the blade change...but i just sold my dcs887 and hammer drill for the Milwaukee m12 impact and hammer drill set since its not like im driving anything bigger then a 2 1/2 inch drywall screw and my god that m12 impact is the best impact for what i need it for as a service plumber
Thanks for the vid man, always happy to see these vid notifications.
I thank you for your support Levi
Hi,
I have both and i typically use the regular impact for outside work. I use the surge for indoor work.
I still say, DeWalt has the best handle. Just wish they can come out with larger Ah batteries for their 12v line.
maybe they will in the future. id like to see a 8ah battery
I'm going to disagree on this... The point of this line is to be light weight but still capable. 8 amp batteries in these tool would reach m18 with a 2.0 cp battery weights
From what I can hear the surge was equal when heavy load in noise loudness. With the 1/2 " lag the surge sounded louder than the impact. The battery usage and vibration are major concerns to me. I will by the impact.Great job comparing the old fashion way, from easy to max load.
I’d prefer a test of just a bunch of screws ranging in 1/2” to 2-1/2” anything bigger and I’d use a 18volt
Hi Dave, excellent video ty so much, both these are excellent quality tools, I like the brushless better cuz it’s known for better performance, I’m getting the m18 1/2 impact very soon, excellent quality video, ty, Bob,
The surge might be a tiny bit slower, but it's so quiet, I really like it. To my ears it sounds like the surge has less anvil skip
and that is why they made it :)
With the way the surge mechanism is designed, it can't skip. The surge is limited by the viscosity of the oil in the chamber though. Higher viscosity will be quieter, but restrict speed. Lower viscosity will do the opposite. With the same motor it will always be slower though.
I always thought the surge would vibrate less being oil drive. I guess it’s really just lower noise 🤷🏼♂️
the surge majorly vibrates more than the regular and I thank you for viewing Ryan
@@ManCaverTools Thank you sir, I watch most of your content. I really enjoy tool reviews, you’ve got good stuff. I really enjoy the vs videos, I have many battery platforms just because I enjoy different tools from different brands. Keep up the good work!
Dang dude I think you could have done quite a bit better job here. I wish you wouldn't have placed the bolts so close together that you got your socket stuck. I'm not for sure ( I am for sure) but that could effect the ability of the surge to drive that screw. Also I'm not sure why you didn't recharge the tools lol The reason people in the other reviews that you've seen make a point to show you that the tool is fully charged is because that affects the power or the actual torque that the tool can deliver. So obviously the surge wouldn't be quite as effective with the battery discharged.
Since I’ve been watching your channel I’ve only heard you not say “I’ve got mine right here” one time. And when you didn’t say it I was like wait what??!! He didn’t say it!
lol.
LOVE THE SWEATSHIRT BROTHER
I thanky ou Mr bates :)
After nearly a year of using the M12 Surge over my M18 Brushless impact, I found myself using the Surge more.
Not only because it's quiet, but it's actually what I need when I do service calls, especially in indoor environments such as offices, classrooms, or other areas where noise can be an issue. Granted it may not be powerful compared to the 2553, but it's enough to get my work done.
Great video, as always!
Had m12 gen1, 2 M18 surge, m12 4in1 all stolen now m12 surge. All do the job fine blinds installation. Does everything asked except concrete walls, Saving up for a rotory hammer drill for that. M12 hammer drill will have to do but takes too long for all day use. Wish I still had the M18 surge or maybe they will come up with a M18 4 in 1.
Sounds like the surge would be great for driving a lot basic fasteners but you’ll want the fuel if you’re putting in brute fasteners like lag bolts
I have the M12 Fuel and if you use it for small screws it's fine , but when using it for larger screws like 21/2" and up or lag bolts it Sucks , it has great power but the ergonomics of the handle are Horrible , besides the Fat handle, the trigger is low so when you start putting alot of forward pressure on the bigger screws and bolts the nose of the gun constantly dips on you causing your bits to strip and even fall off the screw head , its Retarded, it drives Me Nuts because I do like it , but that Low trigger kills it for me , I mean your probably better off using your middle finger on the trigger like Vince does at VCG Construction . If you match it up to another impact you can see the trigger is about 3/8" lower than the Makita's and DeWalt's trigger , most of these Milwaukee lovers won't tell you that because their such fanboys, but it is what it is , the ergonomics are Horrible.... just my 2 cents ...👍🛠🖖
Yes sir and I thank you for viewing Tainted
Yeah, my dad and I build cabinets and the m12 surge has plenty of power for that application. And in the shop the noise reduction in to die for.
@@brianf9619 Yes I do agree with you, milwaukee should make a gen 2.
VCG Constructions are annoying at times, the videos are too long, and they don't get to the point.
I love their videos. every tool channel has a style of editing the videos, its good to get different perspectives on tools.
After using my impact driver all day yesterday I want an M18 Surge now. But the power difference on paper is insane. 450in vs 2000in. I don't need 2000 but 450 seems really low. Maybe I'll just buy some Bluetooth earbuds instead lol
Id get the m18 if that is what you need
The surge is another technology, you can’t compare the power one to one! Do some research and you understand it
So standard over surge 12v?
I would. but if you need a quieter tool then I would go with the surge
So the Surge clearly draws more power - gets hotter, runs battery down faster. Could be an issue for some folks... I'd be interested to know just how much torque was needed on the bigger screws, especially those 6-inch lags. Have you ever tried taking a measurement? Probably easiest to do by driving down till the head is almost kissing the top of the wood, then putting a torque meter of some kind on there and trying both forward and backward movement.
that kind of test is being made this week :) im curious myself
Don’t want aching hand so would not buy the pulse. Thanks for a good video,
Reminds me of a 250f vs 450f dirt bike sound comparison.
Did I miss the size comparison? Which one is smaller, or are they the same size
Most of my tools are dewalt. But I bought a m12 rivet gun and now I want the m12 line.
I always wondered why sometimes watching TTRs that no sound on the tools. Guess they are editing them out. Doesnt bother me I want to hear the different sounds I use one for work all day. Its quieter but i dont know if its enough to buy it if you already own the standard unless you work in office buildings wear you need to be quite as possible.
I think the Surge is amazing, but a lot of times it’s purpose is defeated by its application. Neither one of these should be driving 6”+ lags all day, and with the smaller fasteners, the m12 standard doesn’t need to impact as much because it’s more powerful, and therefore quieter 🤷♂️
Seems like the surge is better if you care about noise at all. I'm not buying an m12 tool for massive torque or anything, I can't see a situation where that extra little bit of power would make any difference. If you need more power then you probably need an m18.
they both have a purpose but id still go with the regular
I want the Surge but always out of stock and is like C$189. The regular fuel m12 is C$149 with a free 4.0 battery and charger.
When your socket gets stuck on the first bolt, you're driving them in too close
Good video. Will say I clicked on it cause I thought by standard you meant brushed and wanted to see how the brushed went up against the surge. Still glad I watched.
I thank you for tuning in Pacatack
U deserve more subs
That will happen in time and I thank you for your support Joshua
I see on the back wall you have several brands I am considering purchasing. For woodworking and small jobs around the house, M12, Ryobi, Kobalt 24v...? What to buy?! I do projects here n there on weekends. But I can’t help but wonder if I went with the M12, would I feel like I wasted $ and shuda got the 18v or 24v?!
They are all on sale. Help me decide :)
id go with the m12 system
Im bit late but the m12 system is a powerhouse I’d say go m12 I’m a diesel technician and use the m12 3/8 stubby and let me tell you its my favorite tool I have it’s just a monster and it don’t weight as much it’s compact fits into places that a mid torque won’t trust me when I tell you these m12 tools won’t fail and won’t disappoint you
@@SamuraiAtlas I did go M12, love it so far!!
Listen , when it comes to Raw Power these are Awesome , But when it comes to Ergonomics they Suck. When your doing small to medium screws it's great , but ounce you start doing 21/2" - 3" and up it Sucks , and the reason , besides the Fat handle , is the Trigger , its Too Low , so when you start putting in the bigger screws and start using more pressure on the screw , the nose of the drill will drop and the bit will slip out of the screw , because your not able to put even pressure on the screw because of the Low Trigger , I mean its probably easier to use your middle finger that's how low it is. If you only do a few larger screws you probably won't even notice it , but if you have a lot of them you will definitely notice it and you'll start to strip out bits and screws because of it , it drove me nuts and I actually had to change to a different impact . So I would suggest going to the store and trying it out first before you buy it. I have XL hands and I'll tell you what , the new Dewalt 12v tools have Fantastic ergonomics and they are actually really nice And they have good power , not like the Milwaukee , but good .... just my two cents....👍🛠🖖
I agree, when it comes to Milwaukee m12 system the tool is thick and its harder to control than a smaller tool. the m12 Fuel hammer drill is almost the same size as the m18 Fuel hammer drill. so I understand where you are coming from
I thought the Surge tools would be better, is that hydraulic causing extra friction or so? They are much quieter vs regular tools right?
that is correct, but the regular version does seem to have more power
@@ManCaverTools guess because of the viscosity it has more friction and perhaps loose efficiency
Upfront you said that you'd prefer the Surge if it was close in performance to the standard impact driver, why? So the Surge is quieter, so what? The standard driver is faster (so less time to produce noise), more powerful, cheaper, the battery seems to last longer and it doesn't send a load of vibrations into your hand. Seems pretty clear to me.
if I was using a 12v tool and I was in a situation I needed to as quiet as possible, yes I would prefer the surge
I have the surge. And I love it. I also have the 2853 and the 2767
The 2853 on speed 1 was louder and higher sounding than the surge on speed 3. For car fasteners ( obviously not suspension level of fasteners) it's amazing
that surge is a awesome tool. gotta love the 12v tools now a days
@@ManCaverTools i think thwure underrated. Except for commercial use
Supper tool 👍 Thank MCT👏
I thank you Makita :)
Standard outperforms the surge every time and it’s cheaper, same size, same weight! Who cares about noise? They’re tools...noise to is be expected.
I hear that and I thank you for your feedback Jason
Exactly! It’s a work tool!
Say hello to tinnitus with that attitude
@@davo7512 it’s not that loud wtf lol
@@Username-ng8jy “who cares about noise” is what I was referring to
Great test, thanks!
Would you say that you can runt the Surge without hearing protection? My Bosch 12V and Makita 18V Impact drivers is far to loud to use without hearing protection.
yes I believe you can. it is much quieter them then the regular impact
It took me a long time to finally get a hydraulic impact. I went with Makita, but I'll say, there isn't a video that does it justice. You would need a well calibrated high quality mic and speaker system to really properly capture the difference, but in person it is night and day. Technically, I think the Makita is right at the level where OSHA recommends hearing protection (assuming you're listening to it all day long), but it doesn't feel like I need hearing protection and it is FAR quieter than my other impact drivers.
So the surge is the "cheaper" one?
I doubt many people would use that impact to drive those huge lags.
I'm driving in 10" and 12" lag Bolts as we speak putting together 4x4 wood frame for a raised garden bed. For outside dirty work like that I use my Hitachi impact driver. It takes a minute, but drives them in nicely. It's a hell of a workout for the little Hitachi, bit it does it just fine.
they probably will not, but that's how test these tools. to see if they fry out or not
Which one is lighter?
Why the Hilti vs the M12 just curious?
Thanks happy I just ordered the regular fuel and not the surge haha
The surge is more controlable for small screw
I can agree with you on that one
Hey Dave I know we chatted like on 9 or 10 of your videos but I was wondering if you could do a review of the avid power 1/2 impact wrench from amazon, it claims to have 330 ft/lbs of torque but it also shows it in in/lbs as 4465 which equals 375 ft/lbs if so that be a big thank you
I can do that and I thank you for the suggestion Harold
Too bad the surge is heavier, otherwise it would be my choice vs the standard fuel m12 impact.
Like the hoodie 👍👍
I thank you Pop. its nice and thick as well
I thought the surge was supposed to be superior, obviously the standard out preformed the surge in all test.
Why don’t these tool have an option for an ac adapter?
it would make the tool a lot bigger
@@ManCaverTools what? I’m talking about an adapter to plug a battery powered tool into a wall, how would that make the tool bigger? If anything it’d be smaller without the hefty battery
I just bought the regular not knowing there was a different one and was afraid of buyers remorse.
What are the part numbers?
I say the model # in the video
i didnt know the sound was the difference between the two, id perfer the regular m12
Nice sweatshirt!
Good vid
Sounds like a little AvE influence? Time!
Can’t wait
time is here
The surge looks cooler tho
I thank both looks awesome
Surge uses more battery...i like both though!
it does has its benefits
@@ManCaverTools benefits just less noise is not worth it and it gets hotter
M12 standard vs m12 surge = i like milwaukee 😁😄😎👍👌
I thank you Charles :)
Driver vs. Drill Matters
I love the m12 surge fuel
A Hilti drill is your everyday home drill huh?...damn, that YT money must be good. Lol
that hilti cost $80 these Milwaukee impacts cost more than that
@@ManCaverTools Really?! I guess I need to look that one up...I always assumed they only make high priced stuff. Just got the M12 Fuel (none-surge) combo kit at HD (first impact driver I have used) as my every day around the house set since I'm just a weekend worrior and don't think I'll need higher voltage stuff...so far I love them compared to my old 18V brushed Black & Decker for my DIY projects.
So which recomend yo buy?
id get the regular one
So based on the numbers that the regular is more powerful than the surge
@3:50
Surge=4-stroke
Regular=2-stroke
it does have tis purpose
fajnie fajnie miło było by móc otrzymać taki prezent a jeszcze fajniej gdyby to był prezent z USA : podać adres ?
I thank you for viewing
The surge sounds like a white air compressor
Зачем мучать инструмент, для таких задач не предназначенный? Лучше взять М18.
FYI- the surge outputs a lot more torque on setting 1, not 3. You should redo the test and put it on 1, it will drive that bolt all the way in no problem.
I will take a look at the footage and see if I messed up, I thank you for pointing that out Vanguard
Is this true of most impacts? Or just the hydraulic impacts?
setting 1 is def not more powerful and its slower by all mean 3 is the strongest, fastest mode.
I would go with the regular surge
What does that mean?
@@procrastinator1842 meant to say Fuel 🤣🤣
@@traceydetwiler9552 I was thinking you meant M18 surge. I run the M12 impact and it will remove lugnuts no worries 👌
I still have to test out the m18 surge as well and see how well that does against the impact
12 volt is the best!
I agree with you on that
The surge isn't even rated the same as a normal impact...why even compare them lol