Chris: “Can I tell what happened to the car? I have proficiency in land vehicles.” DM: “Sure, go ahead and roll.” Chris: “After modifiers, that’s a 3.” DM: “As you stand, staring at the transmission lying on the ground, you’re pretty sure it’s a problem with the muffler.”
@@TreantmonksTemple halfling rolls a 1 then nat 20. You still think it's the muffler, but inexplicably when you hit nthr exhaust manifold with the side of your wrench, the car starts working again
I am really loving this series. The rankings are substantially different than I would have expected, and walking through your methodology is really enlightening. Excellent work :)
@@TreantmonksTemple Indeed, excellent work. Would be even better if you provided the spreadsheet at the end, so we can play with the values and make our own lists.
@@TreantmonksTemple I'd love to see a breakdown by class, where the different abilities would score higher or lower, then compare races based on where they ranked for various classes. I know that's an insane amount of work, so it probably will never happen, but it could certainly reveal races that may out of context score say A tier, but in context never score in the top half for any class.
One time, before I was subscribed, I was using a chain saw to cut down an old apple tree. Ants poured out of the tree, swarmed across the chain saw and up my legs. I stumbled back 5 feet and fell prone. I managed to grab the hose and washed them off me, but it was a horrible experience. Nothing like that has happened since I subscribed. Could be a coincidence, but probably not.
I agree with your 30 points for Rabbit Hop, but for different reasons. I don’t think it’s worse than a teleport, because Fey Step and similar abilities also can’t get you through most barriers(though it is great if you’re behind a Wall of Force). In fact, since Rabbit Hop doesn’t require sight, it could get you over walls and such, at least at higher levels. The reason I think it’s less valuable is that it doesn’t work if your speed is 0, do you can’t use it to escape grapples and restraints.
Me "oh ya a muffler could come off if you hit some kind of road hazard or something." *Shows picture* "That there is a whole ass transmission. I'm definitely subscribing"
There was something I was considering with your rankings: Often, when there are multiple options for a feature, you seem to rate it just at whatever the highest-rated feature is. But that sort of flexibility is itself valuable. Being able to choose which kobold legacy is right for your build is better than if you were locked into the highest value option: as you point out, many times an option that isn't right for most builds is perfect for some builds. So I'd probably rank those somewhere between 1 (for purely ribbon options) and 5 (for mechanically significant options) points better than ones where you don't get to choose. (I think you agree considering how high-ranked getting a free feat is on your build ranks. If people were locked into a single feat when playing variant humans, even a really good feat, it would not be nearly as valuable as it is)
Exactly! Example from previous videos: Minor Illusion with INT (Forest Gnome) 10 points. ANY Wizard cantrip - so you can always choose Minor Illusion (High Elf) 10 points. What about Booming Blade on Rogue or Trickery Cleric with Mobility f.i.?
You forgot to give Satyr points for their Fey creature type which makes them immune to *Person spells but vulnerable to other spells like Magic Circle. Also Changelings, Centaurs and Fairies.
I would say the key thing here is to have diversity within the party. It doesn't make the individual much more (or less) powerful but having one character that can't be held with hold person and another that can't be targeted with magic circles does make the team more resilient.
A reminder on MOM kobolds: the draconic advantage applies to all your allies as well. I've given our party's melee paladin and archer ranger advantage on attacks a bunch of times with this feature on my kobold sorcerer, along with getting the advantage myself. You do have to get in close, but at least it's not within 5 feet. Getting in and getting right back out is feasible, though sometimes difficult. I've found it's usually worth it though, when multiple allies can benefit from the advantage.
Okay so some things I'd mention with these rankings: • Creature types besides humanoid and racial feats aren't considered (albeit minor boosts with the important exception of elven accuracy) • inherent to the score-based system is that races with a lot of minor features get ranked higher than races with a huge defining feature, perhaps this is the intention, but I find that the situational feature loaded races aren't as good as some of the races with less but better features • a cool interaction is that most weapon proficiency racial features can be used to acquire proficiency with firearms and is one of the only ways to do so without a feat, for whatever that is worth • I think personally that skill proficiencies should be ranked higher depending on what skill it is, animal handling makes sense for 4 points, but perception or stealth for instance is a considerable benefit in my mind • I do hope that the Grung isn't forgotten about 😊
I agree with all of these but especially skill proficiencies should be 10 points each and races with a lot of okay features that aren't synergetic are not nearly as good as a race that has one really strong build-defining feature and scores the same amount of points. This last point is the fundamental Flaw with this system.
For instance, lizardfolk score 59 and tortle scores 61. However I can find very few optimized builds or even things to be excited about with lizardfolk and the AC with dumped dex of a tortle opens up lots of interesting builds. I'd go so far as saying lizardfolk should be redesigned
Really enjoying this series, thanks. I wonder, when this series is done, if you come up with a solid point total that seems fair and then describe how you would bump those lower ranked races up to meet it.
Once this series is done, I’d be interested to see the occasional ranking of homebrew races on DM’s Guild. While not the usual area of this channel, I think it’d be an interesting change of pace on occasion.
Considering how much Chris values saving throws in DnD I'm so surprised at how few points he gives for Magic Resistance and the like. Especially considering how much he gives flight and just a free feat. I would kill to be able to choose a feat that just gives advantage on multiple saving throws which is better than resiliance for one saving throw, and that is considered one of the top feats. Yeah they may only be related to spells and other magical effects (except the Vedalkin which is just all mental saves) but I still think that makes it worth far more points than is given. Yeah, proficiency bonus is better than advantage, but only at the highest levels and only considering one save not advantage on multiple.
For whatever my two cents are worth, I’m loving the more light hearted, comical bits to your videos. It sounds like you’re having more fun and it’s translates to more enjoyment watching your videos. 😊
Hey Treantmonk. Loving the latest videos. Would you be interested in continuing this series with some suggestions for how to improve the lower ranking races in order to get them closer to the average ranking? Like the example that you gave in this video of giving Powerful Build to the Minotaur. I would be really interested in hearing what other thematic features you would like to see on other races.
this is a useful summation of all the species. I tend to forget stuff. Especially of species I don’t play or don’t see often. Also it’s a great way to reassure my own biases or get really internet annoyed about something ☺️ Many words to say I like this series!
Kind of shocked that tortles, which I think enable wonderful builds like Stars Druid 2/ Wiz X scored SO poorly. -- I am now thinking about a hobgoblin war wizard though... +7 to a save as a reaction a few times a day... could matter a lot in terms of required feats!
Proficiencies that are set at character creation are scored at 1 point, the same as the Eladrin and Shadar Kai proficiencies that can be reset each long rest. A long rest proficiency is more useful - for example if the party's rogue is unavailable your character can take Thieves' Tools overnight.
What I find great about some of these races is that sometimes low tiers are going to be an S tier depending on campaign. A changeling and a kenku in a heist or infiltration campaign are often the best option.
I've been listening to this channel for a long time and his bits at the beginning about being subscribed to the channel are possibly the funniest things I've listened to in a long time. I also drive for a living and can confirm every single muffler I've come across has come from a car that when asked the driver was not subscribed
I was driving home two weeks ago when I heard a grinding from my front driver side wheel. Every time I braked it would grind and squeel with a distinct metal on metal sound. Made hearing these videos practically impossible. Well yesterday I pulled the brakes out, freed the lodged screw, replaced the rotor, and subscribed to the channel. Now I can hear the rankings loud and clear 👍 (Absolutely SAVAGE opening dude. You freakin' rock!)
Really love this ranking system, it’s giving pretty substantially consistent results that are both surprising but also reasonable. Only the Aasimar seems notably overvalued to me, just because their Celestial Revelation is really good but too limited to deserve 70 points IMO, while a couple seem undervalued (notably Mountain Dwarf for the immediate armor proficiency, and Githzerai/Earth Genasi for having access to crucial optimization spells, both of those are limitations of a hard cap on the value of spells, I think), but overall the system really works! Looking forward to future analyses of legacy and other races, especially curious how the Loxodon performs compared to the Tortle.
Out of D-tier, Kenku is somewhat natural, since they get a unique and powerful skill effect, great in any builds that really push a skill. The High Elf was already the Double Phantom, since the combo of a Cantrip and a Weapon works well with single class rogue, even if it isn’t exceptional otherwise. Wildhunt Shifter can counteract Reclkess Attack’s advantage, maybe, which is nice even if it’s not a huge deal. But after that, I think things get iffy. No one else in D-tier has anything meaningful to build around that someone else doesn’t do better. Not that they will necessarily be bad characters, but there often isn’t really a hook for adding something narrowly focused.
@@thebitterfig9903 The gnomes can make good mages, tieflings can make REALLY good warlocks (that free casting of Darkness combined with Devil Sight can be INCREDIBLY potent in a lot of combats), the Drow mostly need the right campaign/adventure setting, and you could maybe make something work. I think the biggest challenge would be the vanilla human (because there just really isn’t much there to build off of) and the PHB Dragonborn (because their standard breath weapon is the main thing they get, and it’s just not very good). Although I think there’s a number of race-specific feats for Dragonborn, so there could be some potential there.
@@hkfifty871 Vanilla Human is what you go for if you don't want any -1s in the stat array. Pretty easy to have two 16s, a 14, and then some 10s and an 11. Play whatever build doesn't need three 16s out the gate, and just enjoy no penalties. A totally effective character. But I don't know that I'd really call it "optimized" for something. Pretty much all the others are just outclassed by something similar. Fizban's Dragonborn as basically strictly better. There are races with magic resistance for advantage against spells (vs Magic only, but it works on Dex/Con saves too). There are other races with more good stuff beyond a few free spells. Darkness isn't bad, but any Devil's Sight build is going to need to learn the spell anyhow for more than 1 cast per day. I guess what it comes down to is more like a difference of opinion on what the term "optimized" means. To me, "Optimize this race" kinda means that you'd be trying to make a build with one of these races and do something no one else can do. Do a standard good Dao Lock or SorLock build with a Tiefling, and they'll be a really solid character. But not really better at it than a Shadar-Kai or Air Genasi or such. No shame in that, totally valid. Some builds require some specific feature, but any good build which doesn't with any of these D-tier races is going to still be a really good build. But I think it'll be an optimized class build with a replacement level race.
@@jacobgoron482 When in doubt with Monks, I just presume straight-class with all ASI going into stats. To me, the point of being a monk is to do monk-things, even if they aren't the most powerful things, and the best way to do monk-things as monk as possible seems like straight-class with max stats. Any monk has got speed and the Sun Soul has range, but they can't use a bonus action for an extra attack at range without spending Ki. The fact that they can toss 2d6 cantrip "fireballs" is cute, but probably mostly irrelevant at level 11. Might be fun to pick up Spell Sniper to ignore half and three-quarters cover (although trickier on Dragonborn since they don't have a spell from lineage), but Sharpshooter can do the job better with a Ranged Weapon Attack Kensei instead of the Ranged Spell Attack of a Sun Soul. It'd be sweet if Sun Soul could be mainstat Wisdom instead of Dex, since that'd give them a bit of a niche, but alas. My Dragonborn problem is that the breath is a little better than a cantrip, but only a little. Maybe a Barbarian or other melee who wants an AOE option, maybe a caster who concentrates on something and tosses a Cantrip, but it'll never be something truly special, not when a Fizban's DB can do the same thing with more perks. The Sunsoul and DB don't really mesh well, IMHO, since both are based around doing specific things with their standard action. All I really mean by "lack of optimization" is that these races typically lack some special synergy, some secret sauce, that makes them better than someone else at their job. Even if the character can do something decent at the table, there's typically nothing which really makes most of these lineages stand out from the rest. A good build on a replacement level lineage is still a good build, totally fine, no shame there. But I probably wouldn't call it "optimized." A difference in word usage more than table effectiveness.
Feline Agility does indeed deserve more than having innately higher speed for one very important reason: it doubles your *speed*, not your base speed. This means if you get class-related bonuses to speed or spell buffs that boost it, you double all that. It gets to a ridiculously powerful point where you might ask yourself "do I even need to move 300 feet in one turn?" The answer is obviously yes, always. (Edit: I disagree that shell defense is a ribbon feature. It doesn't necessarily give your foes advantage on attacks against you. If you're up against ranged combatants, going prone gives them disadvantage against you. With that AND a plus 4 to AC, you can concentrate on a powerful spell and "turtle up," enraging enemies that try to break your concentration.)
I once was in a short adventure where my friend was playing a tortle wizard. He had what we called "ufo mode" where he'd cast fly on himself and then pull into his shell, borrowing his familiar's senses to be able to see. Sure, it wasn't useful in combat, since he couldn't aim most spells, but it was very helpful when we had to run away from some enemies.
I love these videos. This is a great way to do them. Also my electric kettle did not catch fire when I watched this video and it told me it was because I am subscribed, so thank you! I am excited for the eberron races. I am playing my first human in 10+ years and it is a mark of making. I have loved the abilities I gained from it as an artificer in the eberron world. Really has been an all start for me personally.
Would it be possible to also include other versions of these races, such as Volo's Kobold? I ask because those races are generally still considered legal and it would be a shame to pretend they don't exist anymore, since there are builds which would use them.
@@TreantmonksTemple Thank you for considering some of the legacy options. I am most interested in those that changed a tier between their versions. I have also missed the Winged variant of the Tiefling on your chart in the first video. The one from SCAG.
Original Yuan Ti, even if it isn’t allowed at many tables I’m intrigued to know just how OP it really was according to this method of ranking races before the nerf
Got to say I'm loving the creative arguments for subscribing and/or supporting on Patreon. Also I can confirm I'm subscribed and my muffler didn't fall off, so I think it works! The fact that I don't own a car is irrelevant.
The only thing I might change is the value of a set skill, like the perception skill being worth a straight 5 points vs 4 at a set skill. I’ve seen some creator rank skills as far as usage, and game function. I would agree that it does make a bit of sense to rate them as far as game mechanics and usage. This is a great video series. Thank you.
I had to give myself a vibe check when this came on while I was driving. But I remembered I had subscribed, so even though my engine was loud, my muffler stayed on. 😊
Things like the satyr’s magic resist I think put it on top when it worked like the gnomish feature of all magic, if it was still all magic I’d have given it at least 50. Oh and at some point I think you mentioned not being able to get necrotic resistance from a spell in a previous video, but the summon draconic spirit spell can give you necrotic resistance.
Pre-nerf Yuan-Ti would have been 141 point (assuming the magic resist is 50 and the poison immunity is 2 times as powerful as the resist traits given to other races).
My kobold wizard, despite being squishy, has actually gotten a ton of use out of Draconic Cry. That 10' radius is a lot bigger than you would think, and I can usually get away with some "hit & run" tactics with it while still casting spells. I don't disagree with the point assessment necessarily, but wanted to shout out just how versatile the feature is (which will be even better once I get Phantom Steed).
Minotaur seems best for a Paladin wielding a non-polearm 2-handed weapon. Paladins generally don't have a lot of Bonus Action options, and Hammering Horns basically gives them the shove part of the Shield Master feat without requiring a shield. It allows for a reliable use for their bonus action while freeing up an ASI that would otherwise be used for a feat like Polearm Master or Shield Master, while also not requiring a specific piece of equipment in order to use that bonus action. Plus, as a strength-based class, Paladins are more likely than most to have a high strength, which means a more difficult save against the shove.
I would argue that Minotaur is the best for Hunter Ranger or Swords Bard. The reason is a huge synergy between Hammering Horns and Horde Breaker / Slashing Flourish. Both subclasses have Extra Attack, so they can attack, then BA shove enemies together and then approach + hit both with second attack and activate mentioned features. And Goring Rush attack also works with Horde Breaker, so you can use Action to Dash, run past first line with single melee enemies, reach back line with squishy archers and casters and attack two of them once with horns with your BA. I used this a lot especially at lvls 3 and 4! If you want to do similar things with Shield Master, you need to take a feat and you can only push 5 ft (instead of 10) and you don't have option for Dash + Attack. If you want to use Telekinetic, it is again a feat and has other limitations. I used this on my Minotaur Hunter starting with 17/8/16/8/15/8 (Heavily Armored at lvl 4 for STR 18 and AC 19) and also on my Paladin 2 Swords Bard 18 build (Smites build), because with any other race and feat (Shield Master?), I wouldn't be able to reach 20 in both important stats (STR/DEX and CHA) and still have +3 CON with only 4 ASI (I played with 17/8/15/8/8/16).
For the sake of my muffler, i finaly subscribed to your great chanel honestly, idky i didn't do this a long time ago Edit: Kobold's Draconic Cry is especially powerful in the right group. In a round 2 use, by then jthe spell casters have attempted thier cc spells that requ ire saves, so now the warlock is on EB, the wizard has options with attack rolls, and all the 2-attacks per action classes all have, well, 2 attacks. Even the archer from way back. Being a round 2 abbility means it even works on a barbarion, who is using the 1st round BA for Rage. This feature does require a team dynamic, but is truly S tier. I would have had it around 70pts or so
It's great that subbing here keeps your muffler on your car. But that was the transmission that fell off in the pic, so they were probably screwed either way.
Did you consider adding any "synergy" points, where a race has options that are better together than alone? Was there one where it would have even come into play?
I would rather subtract when features absolutely don't fit together. Especially the Lizardfolk getting a 13+Dex Natural Armor but a strength based Bite/Hungry Jaws. You can't possibly build around both features at the same time (Barbarians are the only ones that prioritise both Dex and Str, but they ought to start with +3 Con which would make Natural Armor redundant anyway).
One other aspect that I feel isn't represented in the point value system is representing what unique feats certain races get access to. Access to elven accuracy is immeasurably more useful than something like svirf magic.
For the Eberron book, do note eberrons changelings are humanoid, whilst mordenkainens are fey. This makes eberrons changelings notably stronger as infiltrators, as a fey can be detected with a detect good and evil, a first level spell. And eberron is the setting where such magics would be more common (not to mention a mark of detection can easily snif one out with their innate magics)
Also having played a Tabaxi through Tombs of Annihilation (Cleric with an Arcane Trickster dip) I 100% agree with scoring Feline Agility at 50pts. Movement isn't spread equally over turns, more often than not you move into position asap then stay in that position for multiple turns while you attack/cast spells at the enemy and then move to a new position. So you get to position twice as fast, often saving you a turn, and the penalty to recharge is often something you'd likely do anyway. Plus the way it's worded _includes other speed improvements to the doubling_ so Monks/Barbarians extra movement is included and it's _till the end of your turn_ so it also effects dash actions. I used that to great effect with Cunning Action. Just keep a ranged attack or support ability/spell ready for the rare times it doesn't naturally recharge.
It's interesting to consider how important resistances to damage and conditions is. I feel like on most races its what makes up a good chunk of their value and rightly so.
At low levels, Lizardfolk can make for a fun, whacky approach to a Paladin- load up on DEX, then CON, and have negligible CHA, shield+dueling+rapier, opt for probably, Oath of Vengeance (Conquest acceptable as well). During the first 5 levels, you now have a paladin with respectable AC, good initiative bonus, no stealth disadvantage, good DEX saves, good stealth, etc.
i didn’t have a muffler, but when i started listening to this video, the sound went away and i found the muffler was back on after my drive. This video is better than my own mechanic.
With the tortle their shell defense is a bit of an underwhelming one. I made a change to it at my table that when you go unconscious you automatically go into your shell. Otherwise there just isn't much use for the feature at all! That at least helps if someone tries to attack you while unconscious you're harder to hit.
I'm curious about Kobold Legacy: Isn't the *choice* between two 10-point features worth something beyond the bare 10 points? Not much, but something. It theoretically makes the race viable for more builds than if it had only offered one of them.
I think it would be if you could choose each time or each day. But given that once you made a choice, the option is locked in, only the most high value option counts.
I think Feline Agility has an argument to be better than Centaur base 40 move speed. It depends on how long a combat lasts, but Tabaxi can move more than Centaurs in 2 turns (90ft vs 80ft) and by turn 3 they move an equal amount (120ft). From turn 4 and beyond, Centaurs start to get a significant lead over Tabaxi. However, in a real combat scenario, you aren't necessarily able to move every turn, giving Tabaxi opportunities to recharge their movement and potentially have more bursts of movement when necessary. I think the real kicker for me is how Centaur equine build ultimately hinders their movement at inconvenient times, while Tabaxi climb speed is synergistic with their bursts of speed albeit quite situational.
i find it pleasing that each tier has a very similar number of species/races in it, even at this stage. i would have expected the ranking to be more top-heavy after MPMM.
I've broken two bones in my life, both of them I broke before I was subscribed. It's nice to lead a life knowing I don't have to worry, anymore, being subscribed.
Maybe it is too specific however Hungry Jaws for the Lizardfolk on a wildshaped Moon Druid is just great. And the natural armor is good for any light armor wearer imho. Especially druid which lacks mage armor if your DM is strict on the medium armor.
That picture is not a muffler....that's Transmission lol Anyway Shifting gears...ahem ;) I'm learning so much about the new races since i don't play anything past XGTE. Thank Chris!
CHA based with Warlock dip for EB? Even this doesn't make sense, because you still need at least 13 in STR for multiclassing, so you can easily wear Chainmail for AC 16 and later use magic version with higher AC. If you don't multiclass you either have AC for full plate with AC 18 or you go DEX for AC 17 with half plate. So what did you gain from this combination? (I don't care about theme, bring here something mechanical!)
Just something I notice at the end of the video... The point spreads for each tier ire wildly different. This means that a relatively small point change in a mid tier race can change their rating, and an even larger change in the higher and lower tiers keeps them in the same tier. I wonder what this would look like if you took the average score and made that the boundary between B and C, and then went something like 1.5 standard deviation in either direction for the A/B and C/D boundaries. By definition, it would give a greater central cluster. But it would also make the break points more representative of the actual scores. It would also make obvious how far from the standard the outliers are. That, in turn, would prompt a re-examination of the feature values. But I think there are still going to be some dramatic outliers at each end, because looking at Fairies and Dragonborn is obviously two extremes.
I think Shell Defense can be really good IF you have a way to be sure that enemies won’t get within 5 feet of you. Being prone at range is actually a defensive advantage. Only issue is, that’s really hard to set up unless you have 8 team members who can just surround you at all times.
Its fun to see where one has preferential treatment to certain races based on how they've been in play for them. For example, I can't personally imagine giving the Shifter's stand-out skill less than 50 points; even if we just chose Longstrider, we would have temp HP (prof. bonus) x2 with +10 base move & a rogue disengage for 10 rounds (prof. bonus) times/day? For a Bonus Action? Based on some of these other scores, that sounds like a 50 point skill to me.
Longtooth + any STR based martial is also huge. Wildhunt with Reckless Attack is just awesome (especially when you run out of rages). Any temp HPs during rage are also effectively doubled.
@@JuckiCZ Exactly, great observations. I played a Wildhunt Bloodhunter, OotL, and the synergies were immense. A good racial/class synergy should make both more fun to use in game, and that was my experience.
I think Lizardfolk represent a downside to assigning point values. Bite is good if you are making a strength grapple build, so you can still attack while grappling two people. Natural Armor is good if you are making a wizard or a sorcerer and want to save a spell slot/spell preparation on mage armour. No build uses both. (Or no build I'm aware of. I'm prepared to be proven wrong by Treantmonk coming up with a brilliant lizardfolk grapple wizard).
Late comment, but there is one build that can use both features: a low-Wis Lizardfolk Monk! Bite counts as an unarmed strike, so you can do it with your Dex, only this lets you also get some temphp a few times per day. Natural armor is equal to Monks having 16 Wisdom, so you're on even footing there. It's not super great (Stunning Strike DC is abysmal and, well, it is still a monk), but you combined a multiple-attribute race with a multiple-attribute-dependant class, and together they somehow became reliant on just Dex.
I think there has to be a Hobgoblin build that uses 3 levels of Mastermind Rogue that would just be broken. Mastermind Rogue lets you make a Help Action as a Bonus Action an unlimited amount of times, and it has a range of 30ft if you are specifically helping with an Attack. Combine that with Hobgoblin's special Help Action options and I think there is a lot of potential for either a character that focuses on support and has a ranged bonus action Help as part of it, or an ok damage focused character that has this as the utility that it brings to the table. The support character makes more sense to me, but I can see the potential of an Archer build that uses Sharpshooter to keep up with some Damage and be able to utilize Sneak Attack. The original Support build I was thinking of was Armorer Artificer, Master Mind Rogue, and Psi Fighter. The abilities all mesh together well, but the main drawback is that you need 9 character levels to get all the subclasses and you get 0 feats along the way, but going Mastermind with either of the other 2 could also be really good stand alone instead of forcing all 3 together.
I still think the gnome score is crazy low for that feature, especially if we rationalize advantage as effectively a +5 Additionally INT WIS CHA saves are usually against pretty devastating effects. Just my opinion!
On the bright side, whoever's dropped his transmission on the highway is going to be sitting for a while. It's a great opportunity to catch up on ranking videos without having to pay attention to driving.
i always liked the idea of an order of scribes Kenku because it gets advantage on copying scrolls down. can be an exotic wizard assistant or a wizard tower librarian
I made a tabaxi swashbuckler whose entire thing was a stinger with his sword. He would booming blade, dash through his enemies, and walk past for free where they could not follow him. I often used bonus action dash on top of that. Super fun in avernus! Tabaxi def A tier.
I'm interested in seeing where you put the Warforged. My DM is really struggling with my Warforged paladin. I think he just decided to just run us all off. He told our Fairy Wizard he was planning on ruining her wings and stealing her book and gave every enemy Blindsight to beat our Hexbalde Warlock... Anyway, I'm still interested in the Warforged.
Love the vids, but I gotta mention that I think you severely overvalued the Harengon initiative bonus. On average (most levels of normal play), the bonus will be +3 or +4. By your own point system (your first video states), you would give +6 Attributes (or +3 additional attributes) only 30 points. In theory, you would give +4, 40 points. Compare the +3/4 Initiative to +3/4 to Dexterity. With +4 dex you would get +2 initiative, as well as all other benefits (AC, Saves, skills, weapon attack and damage).
I think, the reason satyr usually ranks so high. Is it you do encounter spell casting enemies or anybody who will try to charm your party, they become immensely more powerful
Can confirm: I'm subscribed, I listened to this video while driving, and my muffler didn't fall off. 100% success rate.
Same thing happened to me! In fact, no parts of my vehicle fell off last time I drove! Must be the subscription
I have reproduced these results in my own study, seems reliable
Adding that once I subscribed my headphones immediately became both clearer and louder. My credit score also improved.
Correlation = Causation. Everybody knows that.
Indeed.
Chris: “Can I tell what happened to the car? I have proficiency in land vehicles.”
DM: “Sure, go ahead and roll.”
Chris: “After modifiers, that’s a 3.”
DM: “As you stand, staring at the transmission lying on the ground, you’re pretty sure it’s a problem with the muffler.”
Indeed.
Lolol
I rolled a nat 1, I should have played a halfling!
@@TreantmonksTemple halfling rolls a 1 then nat 20. You still think it's the muffler, but inexplicably when you hit nthr exhaust manifold with the side of your wrench, the car starts working again
Size and weight maybe?
20:52 unarmed attack includes feets. So 10 is more appropriate.
Thank you for making this series. It helps alot
I am really loving this series. The rankings are substantially different than I would have expected, and walking through your methodology is really enlightening. Excellent work :)
Thank you
@@TreantmonksTemple Indeed, excellent work.
Would be even better if you provided the spreadsheet at the end, so we can play with the values and make our own lists.
@@TreantmonksTemple I'd love to see a breakdown by class, where the different abilities would score higher or lower, then compare races based on where they ranked for various classes. I know that's an insane amount of work, so it probably will never happen, but it could certainly reveal races that may out of context score say A tier, but in context never score in the top half for any class.
One time, before I was subscribed, I was using a chain saw to cut down an old apple tree. Ants poured out of the tree, swarmed across the chain saw and up my legs. I stumbled back 5 feet and fell prone. I managed to grab the hose and washed them off me, but it was a horrible experience.
Nothing like that has happened since I subscribed. Could be a coincidence, but probably not.
I think you have correctly nailed down the cause.
I agree with your 30 points for Rabbit Hop, but for different reasons. I don’t think it’s worse than a teleport, because Fey Step and similar abilities also can’t get you through most barriers(though it is great if you’re behind a Wall of Force). In fact, since Rabbit Hop doesn’t require sight, it could get you over walls and such, at least at higher levels.
The reason I think it’s less valuable is that it doesn’t work if your speed is 0, do you can’t use it to escape grapples and restraints.
Me "oh ya a muffler could come off if you hit some kind of road hazard or something."
*Shows picture*
"That there is a whole ass transmission. I'm definitely subscribing"
There was something I was considering with your rankings:
Often, when there are multiple options for a feature, you seem to rate it just at whatever the highest-rated feature is. But that sort of flexibility is itself valuable. Being able to choose which kobold legacy is right for your build is better than if you were locked into the highest value option: as you point out, many times an option that isn't right for most builds is perfect for some builds. So I'd probably rank those somewhere between 1 (for purely ribbon options) and 5 (for mechanically significant options) points better than ones where you don't get to choose.
(I think you agree considering how high-ranked getting a free feat is on your build ranks. If people were locked into a single feat when playing variant humans, even a really good feat, it would not be nearly as valuable as it is)
Exactly!
Example from previous videos:
Minor Illusion with INT (Forest Gnome) 10 points.
ANY Wizard cantrip - so you can always choose Minor Illusion (High Elf) 10 points.
What about Booming Blade on Rogue or Trickery Cleric with Mobility f.i.?
You forgot to give Satyr points for their Fey creature type which makes them immune to *Person spells but vulnerable to other spells like Magic Circle. Also Changelings, Centaurs and Fairies.
Yeah, I'm curious on his point value for creature type as well.
I didn't forget, I chose not to assign points for racial subtypes. I'll explain why in a future video in the series.
It would also make the Satyr vulnerable to spells and effects that target fey though
@@portalshock671 yes, that is what they said.
I would say the key thing here is to have diversity within the party. It doesn't make the individual much more (or less) powerful but having one character that can't be held with hold person and another that can't be targeted with magic circles does make the team more resilient.
You know, a Tabaxi rogue/barbarian, has to be one of the scariest thing to see dashing around.
Literally Rawrbarian
A reminder on MOM kobolds: the draconic advantage applies to all your allies as well. I've given our party's melee paladin and archer ranger advantage on attacks a bunch of times with this feature on my kobold sorcerer, along with getting the advantage myself. You do have to get in close, but at least it's not within 5 feet. Getting in and getting right back out is feasible, though sometimes difficult. I've found it's usually worth it though, when multiple allies can benefit from the advantage.
Yeah draconic cry is pretty nuts, it's comparable to giving the whole party the main feature of the samurai subclass.
Okay so some things I'd mention with these rankings:
• Creature types besides humanoid and racial feats aren't considered (albeit minor boosts with the important exception of elven accuracy)
• inherent to the score-based system is that races with a lot of minor features get ranked higher than races with a huge defining feature, perhaps this is the intention, but I find that the situational feature loaded races aren't as good as some of the races with less but better features
• a cool interaction is that most weapon proficiency racial features can be used to acquire proficiency with firearms and is one of the only ways to do so without a feat, for whatever that is worth
• I think personally that skill proficiencies should be ranked higher depending on what skill it is, animal handling makes sense for 4 points, but perception or stealth for instance is a considerable benefit in my mind
• I do hope that the Grung isn't forgotten about 😊
I agree on points for skills. Perception is the most used skill in the game it should be worth double the value of ribbon skills like Religion.
I agree with all of these but especially skill proficiencies should be 10 points each and races with a lot of okay features that aren't synergetic are not nearly as good as a race that has one really strong build-defining feature and scores the same amount of points. This last point is the fundamental Flaw with this system.
For instance, lizardfolk score 59 and tortle scores 61. However I can find very few optimized builds or even things to be excited about with lizardfolk and the AC with dumped dex of a tortle opens up lots of interesting builds. I'd go so far as saying lizardfolk should be redesigned
Really enjoying this series, thanks. I wonder, when this series is done, if you come up with a solid point total that seems fair and then describe how you would bump those lower ranked races up to meet it.
Chris, I love your pitch for patreon/subscription lately. They bring me joy.
Once this series is done, I’d be interested to see the occasional ranking of homebrew races on DM’s Guild. While not the usual area of this channel, I think it’d be an interesting change of pace on occasion.
That weird, you forgot about the Kobold trait where they are the Best Lil Dudes, worth 70 points.
You got me with the kenku bit! Well done Chris !
Considering how much Chris values saving throws in DnD I'm so surprised at how few points he gives for Magic Resistance and the like. Especially considering how much he gives flight and just a free feat. I would kill to be able to choose a feat that just gives advantage on multiple saving throws which is better than resiliance for one saving throw, and that is considered one of the top feats. Yeah they may only be related to spells and other magical effects (except the Vedalkin which is just all mental saves) but I still think that makes it worth far more points than is given. Yeah, proficiency bonus is better than advantage, but only at the highest levels and only considering one save not advantage on multiple.
For whatever my two cents are worth, I’m loving the more light hearted, comical bits to your videos. It sounds like you’re having more fun and it’s translates to more enjoyment watching your videos. 😊
Hey Treantmonk. Loving the latest videos. Would you be interested in continuing this series with some suggestions for how to improve the lower ranking races in order to get them closer to the average ranking? Like the example that you gave in this video of giving Powerful Build to the Minotaur. I would be really interested in hearing what other thematic features you would like to see on other races.
this is a useful summation of all the species. I tend to forget stuff. Especially of species I don’t play or don’t see often. Also it’s a great way to reassure my own biases or get really internet annoyed about something ☺️
Many words to say I like this series!
I look forward to seeing your assessment of the Simic Hybrid.
Kind of shocked that tortles, which I think enable wonderful builds like Stars Druid 2/ Wiz X scored SO poorly. -- I am now thinking about a hobgoblin war wizard though... +7 to a save as a reaction a few times a day... could matter a lot in terms of required feats!
Proficiencies that are set at character creation are scored at 1 point, the same as the Eladrin and Shadar Kai proficiencies that can be reset each long rest. A long rest proficiency is more useful - for example if the party's rogue is unavailable your character can take Thieves' Tools overnight.
What I find great about some of these races is that sometimes low tiers are going to be an S tier depending on campaign. A changeling and a kenku in a heist or infiltration campaign are often the best option.
Big fan of this series so far.
I've been listening to this channel for a long time and his bits at the beginning about being subscribed to the channel are possibly the funniest things I've listened to in a long time. I also drive for a living and can confirm every single muffler I've come across has come from a car that when asked the driver was not subscribed
I'm not a "car guy," but I'm pretty sure that's the transmission, not the muffler.
@Thom Bryson yeah, that's how bad it was when the muffler fell out
Obviously, I'm not a car guy either.
I was driving home two weeks ago when I heard a grinding from my front driver side wheel. Every time I braked it would grind and squeel with a distinct metal on metal sound. Made hearing these videos practically impossible. Well yesterday I pulled the brakes out, freed the lodged screw, replaced the rotor, and subscribed to the channel. Now I can hear the rankings loud and clear 👍
(Absolutely SAVAGE opening dude. You freakin' rock!)
Really love this ranking system, it’s giving pretty substantially consistent results that are both surprising but also reasonable. Only the Aasimar seems notably overvalued to me, just because their Celestial Revelation is really good but too limited to deserve 70 points IMO, while a couple seem undervalued (notably Mountain Dwarf for the immediate armor proficiency, and Githzerai/Earth Genasi for having access to crucial optimization spells, both of those are limitations of a hard cap on the value of spells, I think), but overall the system really works! Looking forward to future analyses of legacy and other races, especially curious how the Loxodon performs compared to the Tortle.
I love how the april fools joke stiked around hahahha
Anyone else gonna try to optimize on his lowest ranked subclasses and races once these are all out? Great videos Chris.
Out of D-tier, Kenku is somewhat natural, since they get a unique and powerful skill effect, great in any builds that really push a skill. The High Elf was already the Double Phantom, since the combo of a Cantrip and a Weapon works well with single class rogue, even if it isn’t exceptional otherwise. Wildhunt Shifter can counteract Reclkess Attack’s advantage, maybe, which is nice even if it’s not a huge deal.
But after that, I think things get iffy. No one else in D-tier has anything meaningful to build around that someone else doesn’t do better. Not that they will necessarily be bad characters, but there often isn’t really a hook for adding something narrowly focused.
@@thebitterfig9903 I'm thinking more optimized sun soul dragonborn cause I like pain
@@thebitterfig9903 The gnomes can make good mages, tieflings can make REALLY good warlocks (that free casting of Darkness combined with Devil Sight can be INCREDIBLY potent in a lot of combats), the Drow mostly need the right campaign/adventure setting, and you could maybe make something work.
I think the biggest challenge would be the vanilla human (because there just really isn’t much there to build off of) and the PHB Dragonborn (because their standard breath weapon is the main thing they get, and it’s just not very good). Although I think there’s a number of race-specific feats for Dragonborn, so there could be some potential there.
@@hkfifty871 Vanilla Human is what you go for if you don't want any -1s in the stat array. Pretty easy to have two 16s, a 14, and then some 10s and an 11. Play whatever build doesn't need three 16s out the gate, and just enjoy no penalties. A totally effective character. But I don't know that I'd really call it "optimized" for something.
Pretty much all the others are just outclassed by something similar. Fizban's Dragonborn as basically strictly better. There are races with magic resistance for advantage against spells (vs Magic only, but it works on Dex/Con saves too). There are other races with more good stuff beyond a few free spells. Darkness isn't bad, but any Devil's Sight build is going to need to learn the spell anyhow for more than 1 cast per day.
I guess what it comes down to is more like a difference of opinion on what the term "optimized" means. To me, "Optimize this race" kinda means that you'd be trying to make a build with one of these races and do something no one else can do. Do a standard good Dao Lock or SorLock build with a Tiefling, and they'll be a really solid character. But not really better at it than a Shadar-Kai or Air Genasi or such. No shame in that, totally valid. Some builds require some specific feature, but any good build which doesn't with any of these D-tier races is going to still be a really good build.
But I think it'll be an optimized class build with a replacement level race.
@@jacobgoron482 When in doubt with Monks, I just presume straight-class with all ASI going into stats. To me, the point of being a monk is to do monk-things, even if they aren't the most powerful things, and the best way to do monk-things as monk as possible seems like straight-class with max stats.
Any monk has got speed and the Sun Soul has range, but they can't use a bonus action for an extra attack at range without spending Ki. The fact that they can toss 2d6 cantrip "fireballs" is cute, but probably mostly irrelevant at level 11. Might be fun to pick up Spell Sniper to ignore half and three-quarters cover (although trickier on Dragonborn since they don't have a spell from lineage), but Sharpshooter can do the job better with a Ranged Weapon Attack Kensei instead of the Ranged Spell Attack of a Sun Soul. It'd be sweet if Sun Soul could be mainstat Wisdom instead of Dex, since that'd give them a bit of a niche, but alas.
My Dragonborn problem is that the breath is a little better than a cantrip, but only a little. Maybe a Barbarian or other melee who wants an AOE option, maybe a caster who concentrates on something and tosses a Cantrip, but it'll never be something truly special, not when a Fizban's DB can do the same thing with more perks.
The Sunsoul and DB don't really mesh well, IMHO, since both are based around doing specific things with their standard action.
All I really mean by "lack of optimization" is that these races typically lack some special synergy, some secret sauce, that makes them better than someone else at their job. Even if the character can do something decent at the table, there's typically nothing which really makes most of these lineages stand out from the rest. A good build on a replacement level lineage is still a good build, totally fine, no shame there. But I probably wouldn't call it "optimized." A difference in word usage more than table effectiveness.
Feline Agility does indeed deserve more than having innately higher speed for one very important reason: it doubles your *speed*, not your base speed. This means if you get class-related bonuses to speed or spell buffs that boost it, you double all that. It gets to a ridiculously powerful point where you might ask yourself "do I even need to move 300 feet in one turn?"
The answer is obviously yes, always.
(Edit: I disagree that shell defense is a ribbon feature. It doesn't necessarily give your foes advantage on attacks against you. If you're up against ranged combatants, going prone gives them disadvantage against you. With that AND a plus 4 to AC, you can concentrate on a powerful spell and "turtle up," enraging enemies that try to break your concentration.)
I once was in a short adventure where my friend was playing a tortle wizard. He had what we called "ufo mode" where he'd cast fly on himself and then pull into his shell, borrowing his familiar's senses to be able to see. Sure, it wasn't useful in combat, since he couldn't aim most spells, but it was very helpful when we had to run away from some enemies.
My muffler didn't fall off either! I wasn't driving, but I looked outside and it looks like it's still on there
I love the subscriber mentions in your newer videos! Absolutely hilarious.
PS: I wish you gave synergy points
I love these videos. This is a great way to do them. Also my electric kettle did not catch fire when I watched this video and it told me it was because I am subscribed, so thank you!
I am excited for the eberron races. I am playing my first human in 10+ years and it is a mark of making. I have loved the abilities I gained from it as an artificer in the eberron world. Really has been an all start for me personally.
Dude, these calls for subscription are hilarious. I've been subbed for a damn long time, so my car is fine, so I suggest everyone else does as well.
This is a great system, I have made all player race traits, and classes modular. ie genetics... these videos are great.
Would it be possible to also include other versions of these races, such as Volo's Kobold? I ask because those races are generally still considered legal and it would be a shame to pretend they don't exist anymore, since there are builds which would use them.
Depends on your table, which is why I assume chris didn't include them.
I am extending this series by a couple videos, and in one of them I will cover the legacy kobold (and some other legacy races)
@@TreantmonksTemple Thank you for considering some of the legacy options. I am most interested in those that changed a tier between their versions.
I have also missed the Winged variant of the Tiefling on your chart in the first video. The one from SCAG.
@@rogerwilco2 Also those Half-Elf variants.
Original Yuan Ti, even if it isn’t allowed at many tables I’m intrigued to know just how OP it really was according to this method of ranking races before the nerf
Got to say I'm loving the creative arguments for subscribing and/or supporting on Patreon. Also I can confirm I'm subscribed and my muffler didn't fall off, so I think it works!
The fact that I don't own a car is irrelevant.
The only thing I might change is the value of a set skill, like the perception skill being worth a straight 5 points vs 4 at a set skill.
I’ve seen some creator rank skills as far as usage, and game function. I would agree that it does make a bit of sense to rate them as far as game mechanics and usage.
This is a great video series. Thank you.
I had to give myself a vibe check when this came on while I was driving. But I remembered I had subscribed, so even though my engine was loud, my muffler stayed on. 😊
Things like the satyr’s magic resist I think put it on top when it worked like the gnomish feature of all magic, if it was still all magic I’d have given it at least 50.
Oh and at some point I think you mentioned not being able to get necrotic resistance from a spell in a previous video, but the summon draconic spirit spell can give you necrotic resistance.
Pre-nerf Yuan-Ti would have been 141 point (assuming the magic resist is 50 and the poison immunity is 2 times as powerful as the resist traits given to other races).
The Orc's Adrenaline Rush now makes me want to make a grappler named Hawk who's catchphrase is "Oh! What a rush!" If you know, you know.
My kobold wizard, despite being squishy, has actually gotten a ton of use out of Draconic Cry. That 10' radius is a lot bigger than you would think, and I can usually get away with some "hit & run" tactics with it while still casting spells. I don't disagree with the point assessment necessarily, but wanted to shout out just how versatile the feature is (which will be even better once I get Phantom Steed).
12:12 THANK YOU! Somebody finally said it. I _loath_ that minotaur art! SO MUCH! (And that Hobgoblin art for that matter).
Minotaur seems best for a Paladin wielding a non-polearm 2-handed weapon. Paladins generally don't have a lot of Bonus Action options, and Hammering Horns basically gives them the shove part of the Shield Master feat without requiring a shield. It allows for a reliable use for their bonus action while freeing up an ASI that would otherwise be used for a feat like Polearm Master or Shield Master, while also not requiring a specific piece of equipment in order to use that bonus action. Plus, as a strength-based class, Paladins are more likely than most to have a high strength, which means a more difficult save against the shove.
I would argue that Minotaur is the best for Hunter Ranger or Swords Bard.
The reason is a huge synergy between Hammering Horns and Horde Breaker / Slashing Flourish.
Both subclasses have Extra Attack, so they can attack, then BA shove enemies together and then approach + hit both with second attack and activate mentioned features.
And Goring Rush attack also works with Horde Breaker, so you can use Action to Dash, run past first line with single melee enemies, reach back line with squishy archers and casters and attack two of them once with horns with your BA. I used this a lot especially at lvls 3 and 4!
If you want to do similar things with Shield Master, you need to take a feat and you can only push 5 ft (instead of 10) and you don't have option for Dash + Attack.
If you want to use Telekinetic, it is again a feat and has other limitations.
I used this on my Minotaur Hunter starting with 17/8/16/8/15/8 (Heavily Armored at lvl 4 for STR 18 and AC 19) and also on my Paladin 2 Swords Bard 18 build (Smites build), because with any other race and feat (Shield Master?), I wouldn't be able to reach 20 in both important stats (STR/DEX and CHA) and still have +3 CON with only 4 ASI (I played with 17/8/15/8/8/16).
For the sake of my muffler, i finaly subscribed to your great chanel
honestly, idky i didn't do this a long time ago
Edit: Kobold's Draconic Cry is especially powerful in the right group. In a round 2 use, by then jthe spell casters have attempted thier cc spells that requ ire saves, so now the warlock is on EB, the wizard has options with attack rolls, and all the 2-attacks per action classes all have, well, 2 attacks. Even the archer from way back. Being a round 2 abbility means it even works on a barbarion, who is using the 1st round BA for Rage. This feature does require a team dynamic, but is truly S tier. I would have had it around 70pts or so
It's great that subbing here keeps your muffler on your car. But that was the transmission that fell off in the pic, so they were probably screwed either way.
Back when i subscribed, my truck with several issues was fully repaired the next time i drove it.
Did you consider adding any "synergy" points, where a race has options that are better together than alone? Was there one where it would have even come into play?
I would rather subtract when features absolutely don't fit together. Especially the Lizardfolk getting a 13+Dex Natural Armor but a strength based Bite/Hungry Jaws. You can't possibly build around both features at the same time (Barbarians are the only ones that prioritise both Dex and Str, but they ought to start with +3 Con which would make Natural Armor redundant anyway).
I did consider it, I'm even going to talk about that in the final vid in this series.
@TreantmonksTemple cool! I look forward to it. This is a really interesting series, taking a step back to try to quantify things.
@@SortKaffe What’s funny is that the old version of Hungry Jaws scaled with CON. What stats do barbarians use for Unarmored Defense again?
One other aspect that I feel isn't represented in the point value system is representing what unique feats certain races get access to. Access to elven accuracy is immeasurably more useful than something like svirf magic.
Lmao, “I’m probably not the person to ask about your muffler falling off” has a photo of transmission 😂
Fortune from the Many comes in really handy for rogues where you really depend on landing one big hit.
"Makes sense - cats are better than goats" 😂
Looking forward to the next videos in this series!
For the Eberron book, do note eberrons changelings are humanoid, whilst mordenkainens are fey. This makes eberrons changelings notably stronger as infiltrators, as a fey can be detected with a detect good and evil, a first level spell. And eberron is the setting where such magics would be more common (not to mention a mark of detection can easily snif one out with their innate magics)
Also having played a Tabaxi through Tombs of Annihilation (Cleric with an Arcane Trickster dip) I 100% agree with scoring Feline Agility at 50pts.
Movement isn't spread equally over turns, more often than not you move into position asap then stay in that position for multiple turns while you attack/cast spells at the enemy and then move to a new position. So you get to position twice as fast, often saving you a turn, and the penalty to recharge is often something you'd likely do anyway. Plus the way it's worded _includes other speed improvements to the doubling_ so Monks/Barbarians extra movement is included and it's _till the end of your turn_ so it also effects dash actions. I used that to great effect with Cunning Action. Just keep a ranged attack or support ability/spell ready for the rare times it doesn't naturally recharge.
It's interesting to consider how important resistances to damage and conditions is. I feel like on most races its what makes up a good chunk of their value and rightly so.
I’m curious to know what the old Yuan-Ti would’ve scored!
Same but for aarocockra and fairy when they had a 50 move speed, limitless flight is already 100, what about limitless flight at 20 feet above normal
Yea, I didn't realize MoM was supposed to replace the old versions of the races and not just provide options, like fizban's did for dragonborn.
I will rank the legacy yuan-ti in a subsequent video in the series
@@TreantmonksTemple Great idea!!
@@TreantmonksTemple Thanks, love the content!
We getting a reaction vid for the new UA from today? I don't even want to watch it without your commentary Chris.
At low levels, Lizardfolk can make for a fun, whacky approach to a Paladin- load up on DEX, then CON, and have negligible CHA, shield+dueling+rapier, opt for probably, Oath of Vengeance (Conquest acceptable as well). During the first 5 levels, you now have a paladin with respectable AC, good initiative bonus, no stealth disadvantage, good DEX saves, good stealth, etc.
There is a lot of things that can make a car loud. For me it’s flooring it so I can get home to watch the new Treantmonk video
i didn’t have a muffler, but when i started listening to this video, the sound went away and i found the muffler was back on after my drive. This video is better than my own mechanic.
I'm excited for the setting book races because they make the Minotaur feel like the kind you wanted to see.
With the tortle their shell defense is a bit of an underwhelming one. I made a change to it at my table that when you go unconscious you automatically go into your shell. Otherwise there just isn't much use for the feature at all! That at least helps if someone tries to attack you while unconscious you're harder to hit.
I'm curious about Kobold Legacy: Isn't the *choice* between two 10-point features worth something beyond the bare 10 points? Not much, but something. It theoretically makes the race viable for more builds than if it had only offered one of them.
I feel the same way, but if it’s a 12 point feature, it also doesn’t really change the rankings meaningfully.
@@thebitterfig9903 I know. I'm more interested in the ranking mechanics than where the Kobold happens to rank. 😄
I think it would be if you could choose each time or each day.
But given that once you made a choice, the option is locked in, only the most high value option counts.
I think Feline Agility has an argument to be better than Centaur base 40 move speed. It depends on how long a combat lasts, but Tabaxi can move more than Centaurs in 2 turns (90ft vs 80ft) and by turn 3 they move an equal amount (120ft). From turn 4 and beyond, Centaurs start to get a significant lead over Tabaxi. However, in a real combat scenario, you aren't necessarily able to move every turn, giving Tabaxi opportunities to recharge their movement and potentially have more bursts of movement when necessary. I think the real kicker for me is how Centaur equine build ultimately hinders their movement at inconvenient times, while Tabaxi climb speed is synergistic with their bursts of speed albeit quite situational.
i find it pleasing that each tier has a very similar number of species/races in it, even at this stage. i would have expected the ranking to be more top-heavy after MPMM.
That's only because TM created the ranks to make that true. The ranges of the ranks differ from 8 (B) to 39 (S).
I've broken two bones in my life, both of them I broke before I was subscribed.
It's nice to lead a life knowing I don't have to worry, anymore, being subscribed.
I feel rabbit hop is slightly undervalued compared to nimble escape, although the limited uses make it far less build-enabling. Solid work again.
Maybe it is too specific however Hungry Jaws for the Lizardfolk on a wildshaped Moon Druid is just great. And the natural armor is good for any light armor wearer imho. Especially druid which lacks mage armor if your DM is strict on the medium armor.
Kenku and Changeling are so good for intrigue and politics focus campaigns. But I can understand why RP stuff is so hard to quantify
Would you consider making a final extra video ranking the "retired" races from Volo's, Elemental Evil etc. so we can see how the new versions compare?
I would like to see that too.
Those patreon advertisements are amazing. Love it.
That picture is not a muffler....that's Transmission lol Anyway Shifting gears...ahem ;) I'm learning so much about the new races since i don't play anything past XGTE. Thank Chris!
Well done on your Kobold intro. Kobold would be proud.
Oh, thank goodness I'm already subscribed. I'd hate for my muffler to fall out of my car
“We don’t see many Tortle paladins…” I’m playing one right now. 😅
CHA based with Warlock dip for EB? Even this doesn't make sense, because you still need at least 13 in STR for multiclassing, so you can easily wear Chainmail for AC 16 and later use magic version with higher AC.
If you don't multiclass you either have AC for full plate with AC 18 or you go DEX for AC 17 with half plate.
So what did you gain from this combination? (I don't care about theme, bring here something mechanical!)
Driven that road a few times and have never seen that before. You must have a lot of subscribers in that area :p
Enjoying the series. Thank you for all the work.
Just something I notice at the end of the video...
The point spreads for each tier ire wildly different. This means that a relatively small point change in a mid tier race can change their rating, and an even larger change in the higher and lower tiers keeps them in the same tier.
I wonder what this would look like if you took the average score and made that the boundary between B and C, and then went something like 1.5 standard deviation in either direction for the A/B and C/D boundaries. By definition, it would give a greater central cluster. But it would also make the break points more representative of the actual scores. It would also make obvious how far from the standard the outliers are. That, in turn, would prompt a re-examination of the feature values. But I think there are still going to be some dramatic outliers at each end, because looking at Fairies and Dragonborn is obviously two extremes.
I think Shell Defense can be really good IF you have a way to be sure that enemies won’t get within 5 feet of you. Being prone at range is actually a defensive advantage. Only issue is, that’s really hard to set up unless you have 8 team members who can just surround you at all times.
Its fun to see where one has preferential treatment to certain races based on how they've been in play for them. For example, I can't personally imagine giving the Shifter's stand-out skill less than 50 points; even if we just chose Longstrider, we would have temp HP (prof. bonus) x2 with +10 base move & a rogue disengage for 10 rounds (prof. bonus) times/day? For a Bonus Action? Based on some of these other scores, that sounds like a 50 point skill to me.
Longtooth + any STR based martial is also huge. Wildhunt with Reckless Attack is just awesome (especially when you run out of rages). Any temp HPs during rage are also effectively doubled.
@@JuckiCZ Exactly, great observations. I played a Wildhunt Bloodhunter, OotL, and the synergies were immense. A good racial/class synergy should make both more fun to use in game, and that was my experience.
I think Lizardfolk represent a downside to assigning point values.
Bite is good if you are making a strength grapple build, so you can still attack while grappling two people.
Natural Armor is good if you are making a wizard or a sorcerer and want to save a spell slot/spell preparation on mage armour.
No build uses both.
(Or no build I'm aware of. I'm prepared to be proven wrong by Treantmonk coming up with a brilliant lizardfolk grapple wizard).
Late comment, but there is one build that can use both features: a low-Wis Lizardfolk Monk!
Bite counts as an unarmed strike, so you can do it with your Dex, only this lets you also get some temphp a few times per day.
Natural armor is equal to Monks having 16 Wisdom, so you're on even footing there.
It's not super great (Stunning Strike DC is abysmal and, well, it is still a monk), but you combined a multiple-attribute race with a multiple-attribute-dependant class, and together they somehow became reliant on just Dex.
You love to see rabbits assert dominance in the tiers.
Great series, would love to see an addendum for Ravinca, Spelljammer, Eberron, Acquisitions Inc, Dragonlance, any other scraps.
I think there has to be a Hobgoblin build that uses 3 levels of Mastermind Rogue that would just be broken. Mastermind Rogue lets you make a Help Action as a Bonus Action an unlimited amount of times, and it has a range of 30ft if you are specifically helping with an Attack. Combine that with Hobgoblin's special Help Action options and I think there is a lot of potential for either a character that focuses on support and has a ranged bonus action Help as part of it, or an ok damage focused character that has this as the utility that it brings to the table. The support character makes more sense to me, but I can see the potential of an Archer build that uses Sharpshooter to keep up with some Damage and be able to utilize Sneak Attack. The original Support build I was thinking of was Armorer Artificer, Master Mind Rogue, and Psi Fighter. The abilities all mesh together well, but the main drawback is that you need 9 character levels to get all the subclasses and you get 0 feats along the way, but going Mastermind with either of the other 2 could also be really good stand alone instead of forcing all 3 together.
Please continue this
Surprised so few likes. I would have expected more requesting the rest of the races.
But I was late adding my like so maybe that’s the reason.
I still think the gnome score is crazy low for that feature, especially if we rationalize advantage as effectively a +5
Additionally INT WIS CHA saves are usually against pretty devastating effects. Just my opinion!
On the bright side, whoever's dropped his transmission on the highway is going to be sitting for a while. It's a great opportunity to catch up on ranking videos without having to pay attention to driving.
i always liked the idea of an order of scribes Kenku because it gets advantage on copying scrolls down. can be an exotic wizard assistant or a wizard tower librarian
Wow, their muffler system turned into a transmission once it hit the ground. That's amazing 😊
I made a tabaxi swashbuckler whose entire thing was a stinger with his sword. He would booming blade, dash through his enemies, and walk past for free where they could not follow him. I often used bonus action dash on top of that. Super fun in avernus! Tabaxi def A tier.
Laughed so much about the muffler joke 🤣
/One who listens while driving/crafting and have no problem hearing you
Just turned this on before drive home from work
I'm interested in seeing where you put the Warforged.
My DM is really struggling with my Warforged paladin.
I think he just decided to just run us all off. He told our Fairy Wizard he was planning on ruining her wings and stealing her book and gave every enemy Blindsight to beat our Hexbalde Warlock... Anyway, I'm still interested in the Warforged.
Love the vids, but I gotta mention that I think you severely overvalued the Harengon initiative bonus. On average (most levels of normal play), the bonus will be +3 or +4. By your own point system (your first video states), you would give +6 Attributes (or +3 additional attributes) only 30 points. In theory, you would give +4, 40 points. Compare the +3/4 Initiative to +3/4 to Dexterity. With +4 dex you would get +2 initiative, as well as all other benefits (AC, Saves, skills, weapon attack and damage).
I think, the reason satyr usually ranks so high. Is it you do encounter spell casting enemies or anybody who will try to charm your party, they become immensely more powerful