D2R It's Raining Ber Runes - (Infinite Ber Rune Exploit)
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- Опубликовано: 20 фев 2024
- Hello Guys and Gals Today let's go over an exploit For single player that allows you to obtain Infinite Ber Runes without using hero editor or duping.
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Marcotte Original Video: • Infinite Ber Farming (...
Change the seed in the Game Settings:
-seed 638589163
/players 7 in Hell
Teleport to Travincal then to Lower Kurast
Current Run/Walk speed: 70% (Hustle 40% + 30% boots)
Follow the same exact pattern I did, don't go faster or it won't work. If you don't have a Mithril Point in the Weapon Rack, you're probably too fast.
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You've found a subject that is very near and dear to my heart. I've spent a lot of years programming RNG both in business apps and games in a previous career, and a long time teaching the subject in College (36+ years)
I was not aware that you could set a game seed in the command line for D2. Wow.
So without overriding with a specific seed the game will just generate one using a Timer or something (obviously, you've figured that part out).
But the C language implementation of a default RNG() function has an interesting way of operating.
Every RNG() call uses the PREVIOUS RNG() results to seed the next RNG() call.
The very first RNG() call uses the -seed passed on the command line.
So first event rng() result is passed to the second event rng() and so forth.
And as you stated the exercise becomes figuring out when the game is calling rng().
Visiting a zone generates an rng() call. (Think of it as a random seed for that level that you visited) and is very easily reproducable.
Visiting a shop keeper? Probably not. Unless it is calling rng() to populate items in the shop?
Now there is a very very interesting fact to this.
You don't have to reproduce all 25 (N) steps to this if you know or figure out one of the values along the way.
Lets say the sequence is 10001, 8, 23, 100, 4, 16, 3000
You can follow the exact chain, OR, you could simply initialize the Seed to 16 (in this case) and it will generate 3000 EVERY SINGLE TIME, and be much easier to reproduce.
Now, I have a theory, that Brevik and crew used just a regular old, standard RNG() function and didn't do anything custom with it (just a guess)
So, you could plug the Seed into a regular old rng() call (whatever -seed you intialized with) and you could use the result as a NEW game -seed and skip the first event you did in your chain.
I don't think the exact order you are using really matters. The BER rune is just the Nth rng() call, each using the previous rng() result (or starting seed, in case of the first)
I could give you some code and show some demo's if it's an interest to you...
Hell yeah, I would be very interested in this you can message me on discord, or shoot me an email @ Gingergamingmentor@gmail.com
so interesting
Could this mean that spawning of monsters also forces RNG calls, like rolling elite monster bonuses? There must be more than one rng pool... for example rarity seems to vary even if item bases match
well they did say devs made the rng based on the casino slot mashines , they give a hint but you must know the combinations : )
@@GGMentor ill send you some d*ck pics 😘
holy damn, that is one crazy video ginger - good work !
Very cool video changed my perception about how I see the game now. I did what you said and follow the steps and lo and behold I get Ber rune every single time. as I was collecting my bers I decided to go to the black marsh instead of Travincal and changed my pattern a little bit, and I popped the last super chest and I got a Gul rune! however I could not for the life of me replicate it wish I have recorded it...
I was watching the stream yesterday and didn’t get to the point you locked this down. GG man, now I need to start figuring out my seed for my sorc
This was a well put together video and taught me something new about a game I’ve been playing for a couple decades! Great video my guy
Single player drops are somewhat seeded, if you follow a certain pattern / timing of looting stuff, it will drop the same items. Same as Diablo 1, checked it out by save state before slaying a unique monster, did a countdown on every load state (1,2,3,4,5,etc) and the same items would drop everytime,
Correct and we know this by the way that people farm armor and weapon stands in a particular way by doing the same thing: taking a set order of actions and approach to the stand (including what mobs are around or not when going to pop it).
This actually makes perfect sense that that kind of stuff would apply to “RNG” of chest pops too. So cool to see that the code is slowly being cracked lol.
@@dontmugurself as no computer can generate real random numbers to my understanding, but guess real life cant eather, random is just a expression of history and physics leading up to a event, we as humans are to dump to understand, with this statement, and unlimited intelligence and computer power, we can predict the future!
This is just mind blowing and so unbelievably awe inspiring! Well done GGM!
Maybe, just maybe, this will lead to new knowledge that will allows us to figure out the Arcane Sanctuary
This video blew my mind. It's so interesting and I would watch more testing of the variables!
I knew it! I said months ago that I was pretty sure I was always getting the same exact drops from my LK armour rack pops. It was just too consistent to be a coincidence. I was like I think the seed has a frame timer. I feel so vindicated. Thank you.
Hello Neo, you figured out matrix inside of matrix.
Def some truth to this . i have noticed the same . but unless ur recording what ya did . it would be very hard to pin point every detail .
Totally agree, I have a weapon rack that always gives me a socket suwayya for assasin. Everytime!
I made a post about timers being used in the Time lost Proto Drake during WotLK in World of Warcraft. People thought I was nuts. I was able to deduce that once that mob was killed, a countdown timer would start. Once that countdown timer elapsed, the mob could spawn again if certain criteria were met. If the criteria were not met, the countdown timer would start again. I was a map maker in original Starcraft. The engines blizz used never really utilized "true" RNG. They used a combination of triggers to spawn mobs, or for items to drop.
Yea there was an armor rack that was always dropping sazabi's when i was doing lk runs offline for runes.
Holy crap... dude... you are a Mensch, a savior even. I'm 47, played D2 original back in the day, and have been loving D2R as the evolution of a great game from my youth. That said, I have full time job and dad duties, but still love smashing demons and loot farming. I only play offline (my multiplayer days of LAN parties of Counterstrike, 10 years of WoW raids, WOT shoot 'em up etc are over.) which has severely limited my ability to access some of the runeword-driven meta builds. This -seed command (which can be just plugged into the tile on your desktop, as I already do for "-enablerespec") kicks ass!!! I finally have Ber runes (and thus Jah/Cham/Zod) ON TAP. This is f-ing AMAZING. I'm working on the timing, but I've already scored a couple.... THANK. YOU.
This!
Played D2 back in ye olden days and now play D2r at 40.
Highest rune found was vex back then and mal now.
With this i can get high runes for better gear with less time spent farming while still having to "work" for it.
I know its single player, might as wel cheat gear in but i'm looking for a shortcut, not instant end game.
I dont get you. If you need Ber runes on tap just go to a character editor and put one in your box. There's no difference in offline exploiting a RNG issue and putting it in your stash. Do you want to legit yourself because it was in the game? The only question to this exploit is how controllable is it online (seed numbers, good seed numbers, seed identification).
No offense, but why haven't you just used hero editor which was basically available when d2 came out? Both ways are cheating, which is of course no problem if you want to, but the two ways (either exploiting like in the video or hero editing) don't differ.
@@CaptainMarci104 the difference is you didn't have to use a 3rd party program to give you the item...you literally had to do the foot work to figure out how to get it without using a 3rd party program
@@josephpotoczek7560 yeah sure, but that has nothing to do with what the op said. I mean both ways are well known, the op didn't have to the footwork to figure out anything.
I always felt like i would see some repeated drops when running LK runs one after the other. But it wasn't ever notable enough for me to be like, " hey, this is the exact same crossbow, yari and gold drop as 15 runs ago."
Ive noticed on my SP LK runs I keep getting the same thing out of certain clickables. Armor racks always drop one of 3 things, and the weapon racks always drop a Silver-Edge axe. Its the weirdest fuckin thing.
@@andrewabrams8459 rack drops are their own thing. They will drop the same item base if you approach from the same direction.
Monsters
/summons being near and other racks you've clicked on will affect the next racks you click on as well.
@@andrewabrams8459well now you know it’s not weird lol
Nice, I remember this from the rack running in older patches more than 20 years ago. On the original CD version 1.07 patch the TC for MF was unfinished and capped at TC66 and Hell bosses didn't drop any item above TC40, TC meaning treasure chest. The only way of finding elite items was RACK RUNNING. So you had to find your way out with map seeds, game seeds, monster seeds, room seeds and player seeds in order to make a rack drop a certain base item, then run it until it drops unique or set. Not just LK but in every place there were racks with high enough TC (Nihlathak’s temple, act V tunnels, etc). One thing, MF didn't affect rack dropping so you had to reset hundreds of maps, wear as much run/walk as possible and find and click the right spots
I predict lots of views on this video! Nice work gmm!
-seed in target line changes the way game does randomness. You can test this by removing the -seed from target line, but enter the game with the same char (so you have the same map) and now try to replicate the results.
In speedrunning we call this active and inactive seed. Active seed drops can be easily manipulated, but with seed inactive this kind of loot manipulation is not possible.
Great explanation.
The first thing I was wondering is if this worked without using -seed. If it does not then you might as well just inject the items onto your character with software because there is very little difference.
edit: just tested it... even though the map layout in single player is the same, the breakables, chest locations, monster spawns, and racks are not. Meaning this is far less interesting than it appeared to be. By using -seed you are quite literally forcing the game to have a specific variable, and therefore can't even be considered farming legit. It's no different than using hero editor other than you have to discover where things drop and then you can find it infinitely.
So without seed active everything is random. Seems to much like cheating to me
This video was so good, I was away from D2R for a while, now you're making me actually want to create a single player character and load it with Ber runes just to have the feeling of it lol
It’s awesome that you got so deep into this topic. I had noticed this exact thing years ago with a Shako, Harlequin from an armor rack. I didn’t figure out the exact pathway, however I was able to replicate it a few times over countless attempts. I ended up stopping as I didn’t care at that time. Every map and character loads different maps, so this isn’t able to be replicated for every character unless this specific map is loaded. Also, I’ve taken consideration that depending on what you have done prior to getting to this point changes every outcome… example is, if you killed meph already vs not. So many factors and variables without knowing how it gets to that outcome. I love it!
Subbed
Aye, I think many people suspected this over the years. It's nice to have proof
Crazy. It actually worked. I didn't have tele on my barb so I skipped the skeleton right after the waypoint and that seemed to make the timing line up just fine. I get a Ber almost every time.
Nice!
does it work in LOD?
Yes
Does it work in online mode
@@wheelerwesely7707 no. you can only seed games with offline chars
this is really a prime example of what makes humans god-tier creatures.
our ability to notice these things and to go off on a limb and potentialize new understandings from it.
to go back trial and error to great depths a lot of the times (ridiculous depths with the hope for understanding). crazy tbh.
humans are a low tier creature actually ;) the amount of humans with a brain is quite limited(and even our genius can't be consider beyond third rate on the universal scale)....i'd say there about 9 iq levels bellow someone of a genius rank......lowest rank: no awareness of being alive.....second lowest.living being that are aware they're alive but mindlessly hunt for food(example: insect)....third lowest. animal that are conscious and have feeling(bigger lifeforms(lizard size or bigger) but can't solve small puzzles...........fourth lowest: animal with high intellect(Octopus,Elephants, certain monkeys species, maybe some i forgot).....fifth to 10th lowest would be humans..........above humans would be ancients aliens....probably 2 to 5 levels ahead of our biggest scientific genius..and just to say god tier would mean a civilization that has ALL of the following: doesn't engage in war, threat all life with respect(no restrained caging(animals should be able to run freely whenever)), have overcome some of the dumbest concept we came with(as no more laws, and ppl are alway ok with each other decisions(doesn't force thing on involve parties)), no longer long for greed,pride(excessive pride to be specific),gluttony or any other self destructive behavior), are willing to feed their body back to nature around the age 70-80(no more burying which is a waste of food that could of gone for other life forms that need it to live), in the case of scientists they should be allow to live longer than the rest of other humans as they bring revolution to the whole city, we need to cleanse our oceans of all the pollutiion we caused, there so much to do b4 we reach that point and its not going to happen in just a mere 500 years.........in term of alien civilization they are likely so far ahead that they know how to harness the cycle of life and death too...humans have barely start to realize that we're made of electricity(not high concentration like a lightning bolt, but more like small electric pulsions) which is what animate our bodies..thats precisely why bionic arms/legs work...... anyway we're still quite far from being god-tier......more like mid-tier at most if my guess is correct...but i have a feel we might be at 2/5 from it....there might be things far beyond our comprehension...things we can't even fathom... such as how the universe came to even exist and what is it rly made of ? like all that empty space around our puny little rock that we very tiny creatures live on
this is a prime example of what AI is a gazillion times better than us in and how people could stop wasting their lives trying to find out such things and move on to the really important matters in life
Well, yeah, but we always look for patterns, and we will produce false positives quite often. Also, humans are stubborn as hell, and once we have made up our mind about something, it almost never changes. We're decent at learning, but shitty at unlearning.
Well, thats because we are essentially eternal beings of light created in the image of source and outfitted with every divine quality there is. We are literally at our core the very stuff that creates the multiverse: Infinite intelligence and sheer love - aka God.
That's crazy thanks for the video!
I have always felt this on single player. You get that great meph map and you run him exactly the same way and I kept getting all the same drops (balrog blades in my case). Very cool.
It only works if the -seed option is used, which is probably a debugging option for developers. Don't use it and you won't have the same drops even if all your steps are identicals.
@@jnbrunetyou wont even have the same clickables or monster spawns... using -seed is the same as cheating the game... no judgement here but facts are facts.
@GGMentor Thanks for giving proper credits!
I'm the author of the video your referenced. It all started when I saw a video posted by Llama about the Mal rune farming. Then I got interested into how map seeds work up to the point where I found a dude in an obscure reddit post that said that a specific Seed on specific /playercount dropped him a Ber rune once or twice. I knew I was onto something.
So I spent the whole weekend figuring out how the chest/poppable mechanic works. Turns out it's all about how much distance you walk between the spawnpoint and the distance you make to reach the chest. I was using poppable on my way to the chest to actually have a "tool" to calculate my run/walk distance. So I knew if I tried every combination of distances, I would eventually find the "right spot" for the Ber rune on said settings. And that's what I did, with time and dedication. :P
By clicking on specific items on the ground, it helps reproducing the walk/run pattern instead of going "free-form with the mouse".
Within a specific loot table of a chest, there seems to be another underlying range for the Quality of the Items. Everything is based on the frames. I was able to get the same Yellow back to back, with the same statistics. Same for Grand Charm Skillers. However, when a Gray item drop in that said frame, it seems purely random (ethereal or not, number of sockets, etc) I might be wrong.
I'm a filthy casual player with limited time so I was never able to get Enigma without using external programs (which I can't set my mind to use). However, understanding all the game mechanics and finding a way to use everything the game has to offer and keep grinding, applying target-farming was really a nice puzzle for my mind to solve!
Diablo 2 is truly the greatest game of all time.
The real MVP right here.
No problem, but big pimpin in the kinship deserves the credit, once we found the seed code he plugged the seed code into search and found your post and brought it to my attention.
Does it work on console
Unfortunately it doesn't since you can't set the Seed in SP Console (I believe).@@Theswazzer
ok now keep pushing - you just found the peak of the iceberg. how does this convert to online and how can we find formulas to find what we want based on the environment/seed we got?
Holy Shit! This explains a lot of patterns I have noticed while farming Lower Kurast. I tend to farm a specific pattern because of efficiency. I have noticed specific skeletons that kept dropping Pul and Fal runes. This opens up a whole new window of thought on how to farm any area to discover the location of an item. Basically, If you open up a million chests the same way, you will never find a Ber rune. Explains perfectly why I have never found a Ber or Jah rune or any high rune from a super chest in Lower Kurast.
Dunno, i've gotten seemingly random stuff when not using a seed but still think you're kinda right.
Its probably a good idea to switch from WP's befor going LK and playing with variation to really "switch things up"
Wrong
This works on unseeded single player map. Seeded runs do crazy stuff such as what is described in the video, or such as rolling the exact same runeword if you do it at the beginning of the game.
Awesome finding! Now need to find how to drop Tyrael's Might :)
New title: Infinite level 30 rare Martial Arts+Life+Mana Amulet Exploit
This proves something even deeper about the way the drop mechanics work
😂
This is wild. This games been out how long and people still figuring this stuff out 😂
Diablo 2 was way ahead of it's time that's why.
rmters know it for a very long time and have all the ber methods replicable with bots in all seeds possible
the seeds stuff been known for years....but the way it work was not fully figured out back then...position char was facing was something ppl assume back then when seeding..timing as well.....but not the loading of the part of maps being involve
@@bllllood people that had retro engineered the game knew that for years I'm sure. But their secret was well kept
@@bllllood I've even read some posts about some seeds having fixed drops back in 2011 or so
Good work! It does remind me that a few weeks ago when I was doing countess runs, it gave me sacred targe off the arm rack each time in 4 games in a row. It was interesting none of them were +Res, they all were +ed. I don't recall if they were exactly same but at least two of them should be very similar from my memory.
Racks seem less sensitive to variables so you will often see them give identical items. But your observation is correct =}
Armor and weapon wrack manipulation is much easier than other types
In 1.07. rack runs are pretty popular. I've looted Tal's armour and Shako's many times. The rack/chest loot table was influenced by events in the game one time seeds but also whether you conjured a hydra under a rack. Basically the Loot table increased (found my second Tals Armor this way). I've also noticed that if I pull more monsters, the map seed also changes (presumably because another event has been triggered - Monater pull). Single player of course, this is the only way to reconstruct a game seed again
Works like a Grand Charm, thanks for the video dude! I was able to get it to work 3 times in a row with 25% faster run/walk.
Do you tele or
@@zilverheart I do teleport as well
You have so much self-control. I would have made about 5 infinities and several CoH’s. This is all very interesting.
I love the deep dive thank you.
I didn't know about this mechanic, but last week I found 2 Sur in a span of half an hour and the next day again 2 Sur in about 15 minutes (offline of course). Seems like I have a Sur map and now only need to try to find out what exactly I did on these occasions.
sur is pretty useful also can cube up with them easily for free
Do you play at around the same time? I think the rng seed is determined when you start the game
Post your seed code and let others test it
@@nicholasconner7630 How can I find out my seed code?
Found it: -seed 1371615818
Players 7, map has two fires, first just above to the waypoint and the other just behind in the same direction. Happy Sur-hunting!
It fkn worked ginger, boss level deduction from one ginger to another. You earned a sub.
Glad I could help
after the 2 blue poision amulets u stopped using ur shiver armor skill in town just before taking the waypoint to trav . maybe thats why it changed ... This stuff changes the way ppl will think and maybe even play d2 .. truly rad!
It's most likely due to how sp mimics online. Every player action has to be registered by the server (the same interaction exists even on SP except u essentially have 0ms) and every time the server receives player info it refreshes the drop tables.
i've read posts about this on reddit too
but the problem is that even with the same seed, the corpse isn't there after the skeleton, and the stone stash in front of the hut is randomized for me for some odd reason..
hell difficulty with 87 neccro
Try a sorceress? Make sure you have at least 70% run walk?
Too fast? Too slow?
Th variables have to be the same
this could almost be a different form of target farming if you can get specific items like the amulets you got
So if my map doesn’t match yours do i just need to re roll it by going to NM mode and back into hell until it matches what your map shows?
if you enter the seed number properly you will get the same map
@duanek6051 by any chance we can join and rejoin until we get same seed code in online ?
@@AwesomeVideosReddit far more efficient would be to use that time to mf and get good items and runes
Wow, incredible. Tested for myself, works. One thing I'd like to add, I am doing this on my sorc with only 40 FRW from Alders. Only thing I am doing different, is teleporting to the last super chest. So I am guessing skill usage does not manipulate the RNG.
Also, there is a guaranteed Shako spawn with this seed. Go to Trav > Bazaar > LK, then hit the skeleton and go right to the armor stand. Easy way to farm a Shako.
Super interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if people figured out a way to take advantage of knowing these variables online someday even though you get a fresh seed each time you load up. Granted that would not be good for the economy.
I can't seem to get the shako. I just keep getting a mummified trophy
Same :P@@dustinbaugh6263
Technically if every chest/stand has specific drop table and the RNG function is predictable once you know the seed you can probably reverse engineer all potential drops and combine that with an app that checks your seed on joining the game and lists where you can find what you are looking for
we are surrounded by good drop opportunities without knowing it
exquisite research...thank you...peace from berlin...
GGM!!!!
You have outdone yourself this time. I will be showing my appreciation immediately! Now if only we could find a similar process for slightly lower runes like Gul or Vex. I personally think that would be worth a big fat Patreon.😁
Guess what, I just found gul. I went the ber route (but was too fast), then started opening the rest of super chests. Gul dropped from the last one, which is top right in the hut next to the waypoint.
Edit: found 3 guls, one of them was found with ber.
@@MrRubbermousescrew you guys, I'm going home
Happy Ber day to you, Happy ber day to you HAAPYY ber day too youuuuu
Would love a more condensed or structured video on this the more you research on it.
Wow, the mechanics are still being unveiled lo these many years later! Dang I still remember buying LoD day it came out, who knew I'd still be learning about it 20+ years later
This is what happens when you make a good game that sells it self, rather than loot boxes.
Holy shit. I was blown away when I saw the Bers dropping, but my jaw absolutely hit the floor when you got the same rare ammy. Awesome video
It’s called rack and chest seeding. There are numbers referred to as seeds that remain the same as long as the situation and layout remains the same. You must approach the tiles from the same side and also the number of monsters in the area affect the drops. You can alter the drops by placing Hydras near the rack in same place same number every time and you can change what consistently drops. I have used this tactic to rack perfect 15ed max resistance sacred targe before. Also 1/1000 is a unique so you can target specific uniques this way to complete your holy grail ;)
I play console tho often times. If it’s single player you can literally save your char file to a thumb drive or the cloud and then move items to shared stash and reload your char file and dupe all your items. Using this you can dupe mid or low runes and then cube them up to get all runes/rune words in the whole game
Your welcome peeps :)
What's the point of playing then? Why not just make a hero editor character.
@@AGHathaway I don’t play offline usually, rn im playin hardcore classic ladder - reset is tomorrow!! I have played offline before for fun so I can test builds mostly. You still can’t generate a custom item out of thin air so you still have to find items to begin with.
Also you could say that about anything. People want the stronger items faster in every game or situation in society in the world. People want more, faster. Way she goes.
Why get infinite Ber runes to begin with then also. Should direct your comment at the overall purpose of the video.
Edit: also you can’t use hero editor on console so there’s that too
So, if you kill any monster, will it affect the loot table? Does not killing them lead to better drops?
@@mwa5704 it’s all about consistency. If a different number of monsters appear or don’t appear then the resulting item from the rack will change. I believe if the monsters entered the tile and then you killed them and tried to rack as if no monsters are there it won’t result in the same item because the racks result is more so determined off if x amount of monsters were in that tile. This is why you can modify the resulting item by consistently placing hydras and the same exact number of hydras in the same position. Cheers
Ps. Check out my short I made ages ago on how to bug drognan outside of town for useful shopping for enchant staves etc. :)
Hi, I've been working as a sw dev for.. some time, I will try to keep it short & simple:
fundamentally, in sw there is no way to generate a truly random number. What is used instead are PRNGs (pseudo-random number generators). You can imagine one as a mathematical formula, which given a number calculates the next one, resulting in an infinite sequence like [56, 81, 63, 31, 42, 17, ... ]. To appear random, generated values have a uniform distribution (say you generate 10K numbers between 1-10, you should end up with each of them appearing ~1000 times - the formula/mechanism inside the PRNG is designed that way).
Now, everytime a sw needs to do a "random" decision (which tetris block to send next, will you hit or miss, which NPC animation to play, what monster group to spawn, how much life to roll on an amulet : } ), it will ask the PRNG to generate the (next) value, and run a simple calculation like "if the generated number is divisible by 3 you hit, else not", for a 33% chance "random" event.
The PRNGs are usually seeded=initialized with time (number of elapsed ms/cpu ticks since some past date), so that you won't end up with the same sequence of "random" numbers (and in turn with the same sequence of "random" outcomes) everytime you restart your.. game, shuffled playlist, simulation, etc - since given the same seed, the PRNG will generate the same sequence of numbers, no matter how many of them you'll ask for - always the same numbers in the same order. Fixing the seed to a constant value is useful sometimes, say you are procedurally generating stuff, or training an AI on a simulation containing random events and it crashes sometimes™ - you'd want to log the seed number so that you can later re-run the simulation with the same seed, effectively replaying what happened, reproducing the error.
tl;dr
So here, someone discovered a seed which generates a sequence containing a "drop ber when opening chest" (say number 17) fairly early in the seq (say position 34), then used an util to read this seed value out of the d2.exe process memory, you are then fixing your game's PRNG via launch options to be always seeded/initialized to this value, then doing stuff ingame to cause the game to consume 33 numbers, so the 17 is the next "random" generated value when clicking the chest. Sometimes your "drop ber" is consumed by the game calculating if a mob should successfully hit your merc or not (assuming those two things consume from the same sequence), or by an NPC deciding which way to walk since you've spent too much time in town, sometimes you are "not there yet". Btw, there is a good chance those two identical rare amulets got the same "random" item id assigned (depends on how much effort they've put in making item ids truly unique). Soo, sorry but from my POV crippling/manipulating the game's random number generation mechanics in your favor is not legit.
"Soo, sorry but from my POV crippling/manipulating the game's random number generation mechanics in your favor is not legit."
Yes it's call an exploit
I would guess D2 has several separate rng “feeds”. I would also guess events in town don’t matter for the rng, since we noticed that time in town or which town doesn’t matter. That would make sense, because nothing random happens while sitting in town.
Regarding “item ids”, I would guess that affixes are assigned with a different RNG feed from what base is dropped, including rarity. We know about “failed set” items that result in blue items with double durability, this to me shows they’re independent rng sequences.
And regarding “not legit”, you’re right because it’s an exploit, but to me learning about the inner mechanisms and development choices is far more stimulating and interesting than “omg i got a ber rune after 10 bajillion runs of LK” when it’s all deterministic at its core anyway
@@Rievax17 the entire problem here is that the seed pool is fixed. if you limit the number of events that consume it (ie, avoid fighting monsters and have a tight SK layout) you increase the chance of consuming the Nth pool number consistently and that value leads to a ber rune through the pachinko cascade.
@GGMentor the reason you sometimes obtain amn/ort is because your first roll selects a rune as with ber but the subsequent roll didn't eat the Mth pool value. the initial actions of clicking other items is just shifting the index.
so this seed has at least an RNG pool of "A B C D E F [G] H I [J]" - A is consumed by travincal load, B by first click, etc. this is also why walking is preferred to avoid consumption of H/I. movement of grid position and other factors will consume from the RNG pool. once you figure those out you can perform actions to specifically skip specific indices and you have your repeatable pattern.
is this cheating? no. the entire point of the seed parameter was to test this specifically in unit tests to verify the loot cascade design was working. congrats on peeking behind the curtain.
if you really want to pile ok load a modified game table where ber runes replace bolts and run a cow level and watch the popcorn spray. its just another cli parameter too so how can that be called exploiting. single player is just there for testing anyhow. don't take it so seriously. glhf
@@kehlarn6478 I agree with “don’t take it so seriously”, however I’m not sure the RNG algorithm is as simple as “n RNG pachinko cascades produces a ber rune”. Theres clearly nuances here related to directionality/modifiers related to certain actions. I suspect different actions result in different “modifiers” to the mutated seed. For example, the starting seed is 22556745. An RNG event happens, which triggers a call to the rng function, producing the new seed of 17 (number doesn’t matter, it’s arbitrary). But, since that event was “go to the 9th waypoint” or trav, the function will do a modification of the 17, say, %9, giving the new seed as 8 as opposed to 17. These small modifications to the RNG function result in drastically different results in the ultimate lookup table for the super chests, and that’s why the directionality and order of specific events matters. Otherwise, you could simply do n rng lookups and guarantee a ber rune out of that particular superchest
@@Rievax17 first a clarification of terms. a seed is the initial input to srand() to select the RNG pool. the Nth term of said pool is obtained via calling rand() N times. you do not seed more than once lest you break the point of a fixed seed.
the video itself is proving that if you start with a specific seed and burn off unwanted N entries the superchest will consume the one you want and you get a ber. that's the entire point of the video. confirming the order of events to burn unwanted selections.
there are specific events in the d2 engine that consume elements of the random pool. that's why i said not interacting with monsters, casting, only walking to reduce the number of them consumed is a requirement here.
all this is well known and programs exist to reveal the seed and more importantly the current next rng value. the online RNG algorithm is slightly modified but the same premise holds.
the loot cascade I refer to is actually how loot is selected within the game files. a given row is selected and has distribution values of what to yield. the next roll selects a column within that row. if the result is another loot class, repeat until you get a final item. "aiming" rng down this table has been done and is a basic problem when you play with the rarity values when making your own mods
i wonder what running the cow run BEFORE rushing these would affect the system
Hey GGM! Nice content. I realized something related to that already: Armor and Weapon Racks also drops the same items if you do it. I've found a few Shakos by the Meph left Armor Rack on Single Player. Wondering if our actions also affect Bosses drops.
Confirmed this works perfectly. I was discouraged to learn that the game isn't actually random on the drops, then I thought this probably only applies to LK runs because it's common knowledge that these super chests have specific drop tables. Kudos to you for unlocking this specific ber drop combo.
All super chests have specific drop tables, not just LK. LK is just more convenient. In fact, I’m pretty sure all drop tables are specific and deterministic, it’s just that monsters and normal chests have a much larger pool to pull from compared to the relatively limited set of around 18000 on super chests (or something of that order). Getting a consistent result on a monster drop would be much harder tho, but if you do the exact same thing every time to frame perfection you could get the same results when starting with the same seed
All computers do is calculate numbers and do different things as a result of those calculations. This means anything happening randomly via a computer is never truly random. Computer programs and instructions are always deterministic.
@@Rievax17monster drops are random other than what each item base exists on that monster's drop table. Some monsters like wraiths have little to nothing in the drop tables so they drop rings, charms, and runes a lot. This is also why at the start of act 1 normal you seem to get a lot of rings jewels and charms
it works because forcing a -seed is making the games rng predetermined, this does not work without using -seed. it's interesting but in the end you are essentially forcing the game to play a certain way and therefore you are just cheating.
@@witheringhs7766 did they fix it it dont work for me
I have found a way to produce the ber rune (doing the same run) and then continue in the same game to find a gul rune. If anyone is interested, I will try to post a video.
Please do
Fascinating video. I'm wondering if the game is a bit like a probability tree and then wheels on slot machines. So an action takes you down different branches of result like a probability tree - eg action x followed by action y = outcome z ie list of possible drops. Then the wheel spins and how long you let it spin for - determines where the wheel stops and what the drop is.
Or it could be like a wheel of possibilities for each action and a wheel for time - spins and then line up for a result - like on a slot machine 3 wheels spinning and stopping to line up for 3 bars across the centre for a jackpot or a ber rune.
Weird my trash chest and skeletons are not always in the same spot. Im offline single player using same layout idk why they started changing
BerBerian. Make it happen GGM.
HE MUST BE CREATED
I wanted to run a berbarian with 2 jewelers phase blades of amp damage, with 3-4 bers each depending on the rest of the gear.
🤔 Now how does a guy do this on console???
Anyone knows?
I’m gonna try tonight. I’ll load map offline on ps5 until I get the same map layout. Will update tomorrow 🙃
@@stevesanderson5885 but how do you download the map offline in PS5?
@@stevesanderson5885waiting diligently for an update.
@@stevesanderson5885 so? 😅
A sit down with a member of the dev team to explain the workings of everything happening in the background would be amazing. This game is timeless and the fact that every couple months there are new things being found is crazy. I thought the Act 4 unlimited MF easter egg was the last thing that mattered, but knowing more about the complexity of the RNG would be massive for the entire community.
It's basically just understanding the variables at this point right?
Hold on hold on, what is the act 4 unlimited mf? Please explain.
@@soggdogg Llama has a video on it...basically if you stand in a certain area in act 4 the ghosts start to spell out some of the dev team's initials and you are granted 9999% (or something unfathomable) mf for a period of time in that game.
@@GGMentor Yeah, and to know exactly what a "variable" is even allow for even more theory crafting...for example - if I kill a shaman, then kill a demon archer, then kill a fallen, does that produce a particular drop that was intentional by the devs? Was their intent to create a set of circumstances that were meant to be accomplished in a single playthrough to produce a particular outcome? Or was it simply just a truly random GOOD LUCK system that people have been playing for 23 years and just figured out how to manipulate? This is a great video and I hope it creates a lot more energy from the community into trying to "crack the code."
@@rlig5932 the drops are apparently deterministic but not in the way of the devs programming "click this, kill that, open this" and a 25/20 260 griffon will drop every time. it's just about the rng function that from what we see in the video uses a common basic principle. the rng function always performs a certain algorithm on the value it is fed and spits out a new number. but this new number will again be used as the input for the next rng call. but because of the rng function always performing the same logic the same input will always result in the same output. that means it's not really random but a chain of numbers that circles through however many numbers available in the datatype used for the variable. for a 16 bit unsigned integer that would be 65536 values or the numbers 0 to 65535. if the first number is 0 it would get x then y then z.... until the last number in the chain and 65534 "random" numbers later the input of the last value would result again in 0 when the chain would start again.
usually events that use rng are implemented something like this:
for example the health pots in d2 don't always heal the same amount. pots can actually "crit" where they heal double the amount and twice as fast. the devs want this to happen 1/3 of the time while 2/3 of the pots drank should be normal heal. so the devs implement a function like this:
call rng value and divide it by 3. if there is a modulo 1 or 2 it's not divisible by 3 so it's normal. if modulo is 0 it is divisible by 3 so it's a crit. then heal double and fast. but every single of those calls advances the list of "random" numbers. if we would know what this value is and what value we need for a certain outcome we could essentially have every item and desired rolls happen when we want all the time.
what gmm found here is a specific seed that with a certain string of rng calls always results in the ber rune because he always opens the chest at the right value in the string of pseudo random values.
Damn i have seen alot of clear screens on youtube gaming videos but yours is amazing!
Wonder if i got the same map layout on console if this would work since i cant enter a seed
Hi GGMentor thanks for this, I'm tagging onto a reply further down about this working on consoles. As we are limited to refreshing our seeds by changing difficulty, I am presuming there are only so many seeds available and we can match your current seed by resetting enough times? Or are the seeds randomized?
Seeds are randomly assigned when you change difficulties yes. You probably could try for a long time and not get my exact seed, but you could also luck into it. without a way to read the seed code though you might never know.
What you could do is just work on your own seed, keep a single seed and test variables to see what you can get from your seed. than when you get something good repeat the same steps to repeat the result.
Often times when I get a cool item like a good unique item, I get excited and do the exact same thing I did in a new game and I find it interesting that I get the same good unique item again from the same source.
I often joke that I’m about to get another one soon after because of how often it seems to happen.
Interesting 🤔
So basically the seed code is for that particular map layout? If I’m on Xbox I would have to keep restarting until I get that layout and it should work?
Hey I enjoyed this video quite curious how would this work on console ?
Hello GGM congratz for this new content! I tried the method and something interesting happened.
Following the pattern, there is no mithril point that comes out of the rack but a hatchet. No matters if I speed up or slow down, always the hatchet. BUT, i kept trying different paces and... Amn Rune out of the chest, then an Ith, and couples tries later, the Ber Rune ! That would suggest that the time spent between the rack and the chest is also key, regardless of what drops from the rack.Thought it was worth mentioning to add up to this very interesting topic. Cheers 🥂
I had the hatchet for a long time until I refined my run and got.faster.
You can still get the ber rune with the hatchet but it's close to failing
My computer is pretty old at this point (built in 2015) and one thing I noticed was that your game loading speed is noticeably quicker than mine for map spawning. I've also been getting the hatchet but I'm now getting a consistent Ber if I walk the first half, pop the hatchet and chest, and then tele to the ber chest from the middle left of the fire pit area. Just thought this was cool and worth passing on. Hatchet looks like its probably evidence of being behind when the wep rack/ chest are popped, but the tele speed is catching me back up. (I'm at 95% FRW and 63%FCR break). Idk that was my thought at least, just wanted to pass it on @@GGMentor
@@jaketozer7841 loading speed has to do something. My are pretty quick though but not as GGM
I have hatchet every time, but got consistent ber runes. It seems for me like timing between two superchests is the key here.
Crazy man. Insane someone somehow figured this out.
extremely interesting video, thanks for sharing
This is great. When trying this on PlayStation: can you do this with any random LK map? So can I keep my current LK map and try to find a high rune there? And when I have found one I try to replicate this one successful run?
You perfected the technique then? Well done, sir!
Does the direction from which you approach corpse/chest/etc have any influence?
Llama had gone over how to reproduce drops from armor and weapon stands. I wonder if there's any value in modifying your variable with the direction you approach?
No, it doesn't.
I think that stemmed from loading tiles adjacent to the chest.
In otherwords think about a chess board and put the chest in the center of chess board on one of the squares. Now if you are inside of the square and you approach the chest from any angle nothing changes.
However if you approach the chest from another square outside of the square the chest is on than you load tiles on your way to the chest changing the result.
So Direction doesn't matter, but Tile loading does. It just coincidentally made it seem like direction was important because he was near a tile boarder.
This works in classic too. (1.06 and earlier) looking for a certain weapon to imbue? Once you find it you can easily replicate it next game and so on.
Act 2 spawns the entrance on north and east only, i wonder if the Summoner location is based on these starter tiles, testing needed
it is
You will also get the lo rune here by going wp to either kurast bazaar or upper kurast first then lower kurast in player 7 doing the same pattern except there is no stash in the middle hut but just directly open the armor rack and supper chest and going to the supee chest where ber runes but drops lo rune instead 😊
Okay .. okay okay now THIS is one of THE MOST interesting AND addictive D2 vids I have EVER seen!
Semi-important side note: When I fail (being too fast I am guessing) I run to the northwestern superchest hut and either one of those 2 chests have dropped me a Gul rune 4 times over the past hour! so yes there is def something about those variables that impact our drop chances :-)))) awesome sauce!
nice glad your having fun with this little trick.
the interesting thing about this is you can establish your own patterns like the gul rune, or others that you might devise. Don't just stick to my pattern, mess around and see what you can get on your own and then see if you can repeat it.
thanks mate! I did it with my paladin, players 7, arround 70 run/wal with the aura, and 300 magic find, it works quite well for me :D
Just so you know magic find doesn’t affect rune drops
Damn I wonder if there is an overall patern like interacting with more items will make chests or mobs drop better stuff in general.
You're on to something, I've always wondered why certain uniques drop more in certain high lvl areas, like finding a diadem or corana in the pits, certain actions/circumstances are being met and the item drops.
Players do this unknowingly thinking the drops are random, there's a pattern to the variables.
I mean this only really works for SP and if ur gonna do this you might as well hero edit.
I'm surprised you spent time offline for the stream on this. I was gaming so much I didn't even think about YT.
Thx, i now have a surplus of Ith runes... still keeping at it and it seems to count from opening chests, no particular order here but 6 and than the "ber" ith for me chest always drops. Not complaining in the least because this testing got me a 40%ed jewel. gonna keep trying tho =)
Ith means your close, trying adding more run walk speed 70% seems to be the key
@@GGMentor yea i went for the baba for few runs due to natural speed but i had to stop for a while. did copy exactly same drops tho,
Awesome Video. I didn''t know that D2 actually works like that.
Everyone familliar with Speedrunning (especially Pokémon gen1) knows about this kind of RNG manipulation. Cool to see, that this stuff works in other games too😄
by using this map seed i found out imbuing circlets turn out to give the same exact stats on it
It’s a good thing you’re constantly recording. Hopefully you do some follow ups with other “recipes/combinations” for unlocking other runes, Great Charms, Small Charms, specific gear etc
would this work for d1 3 and 4 also? i know it would be different codes and all but i see the settings have same options.
It feels like that the monsters that spawn next to the chests can also influence what drops
Ironically it's actually the opposite.
The variables determine the monsters that spawn we found this out as well during the live.
Software engineer here. What you are describing at the end about the lists of variable types and them ending up consistently the same for items/monsters/resistance etc sounds alot like there is static enums or lists containing all these values and based on chunks loaded theres a index and so if that chest is set to drop 1 rune and you happen to roll the same index(based on chunks loaded) you will always get RUNE_LIST[158] or RUNE_LIST[159] which is your ith and ber rune. Generating random numbers can be resource intensive especially in the old days when this game was made so its very likely that the number generator is a shared class(singleton) and because of that that's why you end up with all these different values ending up the same. It's because the app uses that shared method to get a "random" index(based off chunks) and uses that value as the index for list of runes, monster names, resistances, etc which would explain why you get predictable results.
As someone watching this video, I wonder, is it possible to alter the drop table to drop an Ohm Rune from that particular super chest in LK? I am trying to get my hands on an ohm rune so I can make CTA for my Smiter Pally.
perhaps but the variables would need to change until you get what your looking for.
Bro I love you subscribed
this is very interesting, it makes me question how the drop/loot actually works in this game. Its like you are meant to get a specific item depending on the "seed" of the map. What is mf for then?? or this only work for objects that you can interact with?? what if this worked for boss, elites and champion farming??
This is obviusly bias but i have a rather strict farming routine and i have multiple douplicate uniques: i have 3 oculus, 3 titans revenge, 3 thundergods, 2 arreats. This may be common, i don't really know, im kinda new to d2 grind, but from my understanding some of these are somwhat rare so having them duplicate seems weird.
Damn that's interesting.
I did some research and I have found a post from 2008 that talks about this.
It wouldn't suprise me if some people figured out how the number generator works with the map seed and were able to apply it to multiplayer.
That's nuts! Preobably the most impressive D2 vid I've seen!
Wait til you see some of the other testing, we uncover a lot of neat things and useful to boot over the course of several Livestreams
@@GGMentor Cool, I'm already seeing D2 in a whole different way...
@@GGMentor I thought I'd have to wait till lvl 85 for HR drops but was working at lvl 81 no problem. My other HRs are online so any tips on how to get Pul, um, Lo etc would be amazing!
Do you think the amount of time you spend doing things in D2R which seems to yield higher rewards is an old game parameter or is that new? I know D4 implemented such a practice but is nefarious in that circumstance.
thx for video, are there other known seeds for top items, skillers, or runes?
Judging by the way this system works you could potentially find anything if you spend enough time fiddling with the variables.
Check out the second video in this series for more information on skillers
Dang
My experience was trial and error even with GGM's advice here. It can be done on a non sorceress which is nice since I don't have one high enough. I did it with my Javizon with a teleportation staff. Was first trying it without setting the players count to 7 since that wasn't part of the given set up. Didn't work. Though that might also be because I actually had over 80% run walk with the Hustle giving me 65% so I had to take some stuff off. Then it all came down to timing. I was still too fast a lot, got the 122 drops or the hatchet instead of the mithril point. But even getting the MP I'd get down to the target chest too soon.
I was becoming convinced that you had to take some damage from something to make this work. All in all, after many times trying to get the timing right, I got 6 Bers before calling it a night. I can now make an Infinity!...well once I find a good base. Anyone got a trick for that?! lol (I know, I know...back to Cows/Pit/CS....)
Thank you for all the gaming news, tips and tricks and all of that stuff, GGM!
I’ve noticed this seed thing with the armour/weapon racks too. I had one lk map where I could get monarchs to drop reliably. I farmed it for a while. Never got a jmod but plenty of 4os and even a storm shield.
Had the same thing with a spired helm from armor rack.
Dropped often enough to be suspicious but not often enough to form a pattern.
Llama did a vid about this years ago. It has to do with the direction you run to the rack and if there’s mobs around it changes the outcome
Amazing video. I play d2r on switch now. Would I be able to replicate? Does that seed code always have that map layout?
did you figure this out? I am on switch as well.
Very curious, nice discovery!
My god, this works 100%. i went strictly for the ber rune, with 68% ms. it still worked in the same way, as long as i figured out where i needed to hurry or slow down
Perhaps you realized it already, but when you ran several tries for the magic amulets, you visibly did slight changes each time you didn't get the same result. One time you forgot to cast cold armor, one time you missed to click one of the chests, another time you completely skipped a chest. Not sure if it just affects the timing of your "final" chest, or just the chain leading up to it.(missing the chests clearly has an impact, but missing to cast a skill?)
Yeah I noticed, I am not a bot, so I make up for my lack of exactness with numbers lol. I was hoping that with enough tries I would get more duplicates and i did.
I knew of map seeds and varying the path taken to the superchests to get specific drops (callback to rack farming), but it started getting freaky when duplicate rares and magic items started dropping.
Check out the newest live stream where I go over even more stuff. It's very interesting to dive into the inner workings of the game
Can this be done on ps5 or is this only available for pc?
have you tried TIMING the run and just opening the chest at the exact time required to get the ber?
Is the main application for online play to, if farming LK chests, interact with skels, corpses, or w/e we see looking for the bonfire first? To improve what the superchests drop? I can't imagine that's a real exploit.
I’ve seen people asking questions regarding Xbox version of the game but this isn’t exactly clear.
If I keep resetting my hell map until I get this Lk map, will this work the same?
Of course, but there are 65,255 different seeds...
So getting my exact map randomly would take some time or some luck.
Oof, I’ll just try the other Xbox method you have mentioned in the comments. Thank you for the reply and the video. Good stuff!!
Is there also a possibility that drops depend on time of day or MF like there's a point where I feel like too much MF actually doesn't even drop anything and sometimes you just know when it's going to be yellows and blues for a while or you know that it will drop uniques almost every other time. It's like Pindleskin or mephisto there was a certain point where it was on a streak but it could be just rng