I am no economist but I am smart enough to know when you can't afford leisure activities such as going to a vacation without impacting your regular lifestyle then you are not in the middle class simple as that.
On this episode of the Business of Life, we get to the bottom of just what the “middle class" is: how to get in, how to stay in, and why so many Americans are falling out. Learn about The Business of Aging - bit.ly/2pWYOj8
VICE News 1st world problems. That's all this PoS segment is complaining about. People need to stop taking shit for granted, not everyone without the skills or know how can live in a mansion and drive super cars.
I worked with a guy who was much older than me. He told me that about 25 years ago he was making 5 times MORE money for the same job while housing cost 5 times LESS than it is now. What happened? Are we moving towards another great depression?
It's starting now boys, we are at the end of a long-term debt cycle so federal interest rates have to go up. It's already gone up 4 times this year, and each time, it has affected the market. The S&P 500, dow jones, and the Nasdaq are all down on the yearly, with the S& P fall this month(December 2018) being as bad as the last depression. Oof right when I'm entering the fucking job market isn't our lives great.
Because that same guy supported government policies to limit building new housing for the next generation so he can brag about his property values from the squeezed housing inventory. They pulled the ladder up on you.
aneil84 , Corrupt Corp Politicians/Media/Corporations dismantled regulations, laws... protections in place for the American people. Protections FDR put in place because he like Berni3 are true Americans.
Americans need to remember that when we had a strong middle class 1 in 3 workers belonged to a Union, now only 1 in 12 workers have representation in the work place. Company's are not paying taxes and are getting all the breaks and working people need to wake up, trickle down will never work.
Curious how many people believe $48,000/yr is a median income? I think that it's about half that. The problem with government is that they dont have boots on the ground. Economists send Senators and Representatives these fluffy numbers and they go, "Oh, things aren't that bad." The meadian of the average person across America I'd dare to say is $25-35K. Maybe even as low as 20k as the Canadian gentleman said.
This could have been a really informative interview and discussion, especially for classrooms. But right from the beginning, the discussion was lost when the middle guy started yelling. If he was removed, I think this would have been very well done. And the moderator should have shut the middle guy up and allowed the lady to speak since it was her turn.
When you have unions, it increases the price of labour. I Know everyone would love to be paid more, but when there is a dozen other companies producing the same thing, its just a matter of time before your job is gone. ...Its like those people that own a Gift Store in a tourist resort...surrounded by more gift stores.
I'm sick of everyone saying people just need more skills. Not everyone can be a doctor or nurse or, engineer. Nor can struggling people afford to take on the debt ti attempt to get that training. And once they are in debt the people hiring these people have all the leverage. so they can hire them for less.
Im and air conditioning tech and hurricane shutter in florida. I make 20 an hour and work those 2 jobs usually weekends too. I struggle to make ends meet and i have a bad back. Ive suffered 3 years in pain, struggled to pay bills, and go to bed hungry quite often. 20 an hour isnt that good
Total BS. Yes sir. Wait, spending by labor is the engine. No job = no money = no transfer of money = no demand = less production = less profits = the end AND the end is then rich/poor, haves / have nothings. Neo-liberals will kill the goose (us), what fools we allow to run things. PROTEST FOR CHANGE, DEMAND CHANGE DO NOT GO TO WORK 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 .·´¯·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸> .·´¯·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸> ¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸>.·´¯·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸> A NEW CAPITALISM ruclips.net/video/oMRowgD0ZZs/видео.html .·´¯·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸> ¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸> .·´¯·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸> .·´¯·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸·.´¯·.¸¸.·´¯·.¸> well, lets get right to the REVOLUTION "The three countries, out of 133, that are worse off [in terms of social progress are]: Hungary, Brazil and the United States of America... The United States ranked 19th in 2011. And in 2020 it ranks 28th... The United States ranks #1 in the quality of its universities but it ranks #91 in the access to quality basic education... The US leads the world in medical technology, yet we are #97 in access to quality health care... Americans have health statistics similar to those in the following three countries: Chile, Jordan, and Albania, while kids in the United States get an education roughly on par with what children get in Uzbekistan and Mongolia..." - Richard Wolff SEPTEMBER 21, 2020 The most memorable pages in Das Kapital are the descriptive passages, culled from Parliamentary Blue Books, on the misery of the English working class. Marx believed that this misery would increase, while at the same time the monopoly of capital would become a fetter upon production until finally “the knell of capitalist private property sounds. The expropriators are expropriated.” hint hint, two class system, neoliberal (capitalist) KILLED the middle class rich / poor Employer / employee Bourgeois / labor Lord / serf Master / slave In Marxist philosophy, the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society. CAPITALISM IS NOT DEMOCRATIC AND IT IS BROKEN as in: you are labor, sorry ARE YOU THE EMPLOYER OR THE EMPLOYEE ARE YOU THE BOURGEOISIE OR LABOR ARE YOU THE LORD OR A SERF ARE YOU THE MASTER OR A SLAVE Can you quit your job ? retire ? No, then you are labor, make that a slave. LOL when can you retire ? $10B AT 3.65% = $1M PER DAY $365M PER YEAR $1B AT 3.65% = $100K PER DAY $36.5M PER YEAR $100M AT 3.65% = $10K PER DAY $3.65M PER YEAR $10M AT 3.65% = $1K PER DAY $365K PER YEAR $1M AT 3.65% = $100 PER DAY $36.5K PER YEAR $100K AT 3.65% = $10 PER DAY $3.65K PER YEAR What is wrong ? well punk, are you a slave ? That's right the Capital brings the relationship of power, class division if you understand it as so. Capital is not only that described by prof. Wolff but also political power that is needed to maintain it, the superstructure. So for example, in 2008 the Gov. could have instead of giving the billions bailout "almost free money" to the financial system, actually financed(bought) part of the debt of the people who bought the houses or whatever. Even if the price was too high, the effect would be exactly the same(maybe better for the bubble) for the economy except that the power would go to save the people and no the rich capitalists who made a lot on the financial system. The money would come exactly from the same place, but without people have lose their homes, etc. Unfortunately, that relative power. Capital is power,as much any previous class system we had. The only difference is that the previous systems used a form of violent dominance over the lower class, while Capitalists uses their Capital and power to create their ideology, including that fake story that says everyone can be rich is just a matter of hard working or good entrepreneurship. got your rice and beans ?
@Michael Tandy Engineering job skills required have become a laundry list of technical skills, IMPOSSIBLE to master in one life time. Total BS. I came to call this the SWISS ARMY KNIFE syndrome. No career growth nowadays, no management /technical specialization. do everything. Load the xerox copier paper, self serve HR, online training, self reporting for reviews, meet unrealistic schedules and no push back.. The real GEM 360 degree reviews, you get the center of a firing squad.. All this keeps bright engineers in the salary hole. Dissagree and become a Japanese wall watcher ( not fired, just given a desk and a wall to watch) until you quit. Retired LOL.
I had to stop watching. Charlie LeDuff was being, and probably always is, a jerk. The discussion topic and the format are good, that jerk ruined it. He needs to grow up.
@@avinashreji60 that lady is very important to this discussion. She is the classic example of how people are clueless about how everyone else is living.
kr00m So, how is that relevant? Museums have exhibits that are sponsored by corporations, and by the very rich. Doesn't make the museums puppets of the top 1%.
Very disappointed with Vice News here. The topic and the general questions posed are very relevant but this show seems like another one from Bill O'Reilly, just some senseless emotional shouting and not a well-formed moderated debate.
Yeah this segment was very important. They ruined it because the guests were arguing like teenagers interrupting each other. They need to redo this type of segment again. However the commentators need to act more professionally in a debate to actually have clarity in their arguments.
She is unbelievably arrogant because she tries to project here own reality and personal experience on everyone else. She wants to place all the blame/responsibility at the feet of each individual, while it's somewhat right in that because of past systems people do spend too much. At the same time tuition costs, lower wages, corporations sucking money out of government and lower wages unless you are at the top. Corporations and our own Government seem to both need better checks and balances. She is also oversimplifying the issues throughout the discussion. It is really arrogant and extremely off putting. Edit: Educated or not she is in a bubble. Sorta like Steve Job's infamous Reality-Distortion-Field that was at the crux of most of his flaws.
If I was next to the Indian lady, who is lying faster than you can say wtf, I'm surprised he stayed as calm as he did. Also, listen to her arguments, they're all so far-fetched, but she keeps bulldozing through them like they are facts.
@@mulepati interesting point you made. The lady isnt lying. She is speaking from her experience, the choices she had made and how good her life is due to the choices she made. Which obviously puts her above the middle class. Obviously those not in her shoes are bewildered at her points literally asking themselves of this lady is from their community. She obviously isnt. Now this is an interesting dynamic at play. We are clueless on how those around us are living. We are so cocooned in our own class strata we cannot understand what those different from us are facing.
Follow the following rules and you'll be fine in most cases: 1. Don't buy a home, especially now when the days of a 'steady job' are over. 2. Never buy a NEW car, get a good used one instead 3. Don't get kids if you can't afford them, they will eat your money 4. Live close to work, work close to where you live. Commuting is expensive and time-consuming 5. Don't waste tens of thousands of dollars on a worthless college degree. Your student loan WILL crush you. 6. Never go for the newest smartphone 7. Don't go on fancy holidays if you can't afford them 8. Don't buy stuff you don't really need 9. Think. Add and subtract. Do the math 10. Don't feel 'entitled' to anything. Just because a previous generation had a certain standard of living doesn't make it a god-given human right.
Excellent list, but #4 isn't feasible as most jobs require a commute because the jobs that pay a living wage are usually in more affluent commercial areas. Number 5 is also debateable because most living wage jobs require secondary education.
I'm 50, an ultrasound Tech, bachelor's degree, I have 4 kids, no child support ever, I have a hard time putting any food in our fridge, vacations? what's a vacation? Used car, no vacations, no new clothes, hardly any food, retirement? I don't think about retirement, I'll probably be working when I die, just drop dead at work...this is so ridiculous to argue about. There is no middle class...there's rich, richer, and impoverished...it's sad but true.
Because part of being a human being is having kids we shouldn't have to decide between money and kids that's why she had kids what kind of question is that. Family bonds is the backbone of society our problem is that we are too focused on money.
3:46 Sorry bruh, but you're just poor, not middle class. I only considered myself working class and not middle class until just recently, and I expect and strove for most of the things on that list.
damn bruh sorry your such a tool . it took a lot for that man to come out and openly say what he did and be so straight forward about it , that's the type of honesty that changes things , situations , lives . but hes just poor lol so .... and good for you bruh workin so hard .. good for you :D
cityofdreams95 Yeah, I care about someone who starts off with insults because I have thoughts different than his. This is a case of considering the source, and the source clearly isn't worth much. And I don't care what it took for him to speak, it has zero to do with what I said. He's not middle class. What part of that can't you comprehend? What am I asking. Clearly all of it.
A very strong way to bring crime down is education.. Those tax payers shouldn't be investing in a sports arena when schools need the money to educate people. It's just sad.
oscar zafra Like he said the problem is that companies pay for laws through legal compain contributions (like a bribe, but legal). If compain contributions would not play a role (make some caps on amount...etc), then majority would decide, like it is supposed to. This would solve all major issues...since people know what they want or atleast get there eventually.
'Go to college ' Can't pay student loan debt ' your fault'. I love how the solution is to know your future fully, know your wife or husband will never leave you , know your major will be profitable in 10 years.
The guy on the left did not get to talk enough and I definetely wanted to hear more about his thoughts which were much better constructed and organized, rather than a shouting match between the two other speakers.
Sounds like most of us have a slim set of options for living what was considered middle class 20 to 40 years ago, and accept that most US citizens get to live a peasant like existence. Looking at a Stanford study on STEM degrees vs. jobs doesn't look promising either. So college means you buy a 50 to 120 thousand dollar lottery ticket to enter in the lottery of affluence. The other option is there is a massive civil and class war in America which has the potential to destroy what's left of a functioning infrastructure. Hear my story: I'm already 8k in debt and feel somewhat alienated from the majority of the college students I'm around, and to be honest if my old job paid a living wage I would not have gone back to college this old. After rent prices increased in my city I had to move 16 miles from work without a car. My commutes were 2 hours one way on public transit. I found myself going to work, then going directly home to sleep 6 days a week only to be broke every month. After 2 years of that I broke down, moved back home with my parents and went to school full time in the hopes of getting a better paying job so I can be more than a wage slave. At this point that three years to graduation seems a long ways away with massive debts. Many of my friends and acquaintances are working class people. They have no interest in college because they feel disengaged with what colleges have to offer. Additionally they want to work in the trades, own a home, go bowling on the weekends and enjoy their family and friends. I opted out of the working class at 28, and am a first year CS student. I love programming and computers, but every job posting I see wants some kind of technical degree which makes sense, who wants to hire a prep cook to write their software for them.
He meant "should have" relative to the the fact that this is the richest nation on the planet and technically the goods were attainable just a few years ago
Best Episode So Far, I am surprised how politics jumped in so so quickly. It started the moment when he asked who identifies with the middle class and it got more exciting from that point on.
Despite what the guy in the middle is coming off as, he's the one who is actually talking a bit of truth in the argument. I nearly laughed when the lady to the right said the price of housing is going down............ please
All of them annoyed me. The lady of the right pissed me off the most. She's just happy because her country of origin (India) is doing better at the American expense. I would love to see her try to live for one month on the lower middle class income. She probably banks 6 figures a year. Honestly I would kill to make the median middle class income. I still save despite my meager earnings .
When I was a kid back in the late 60’s my dad made $98 a week, his first weeks paycheck covered the rent, food, utilities and a car loan, he was able to save 3 weeks pay! He wasn’t even a skilled laborer & we were considered poor! Never a vacation or eating out! Today that’s impossible!
Charlie LeDuff is such a little manbaby. I get that he's super passionate about this, but he's arguing facts with sentimentality. The US free market is harsh, and Detroit got out competed by unionized parts of our market. Right to work states aren't popular with corporations that prefer unions (especially like Asian and German car manufactures). Is it any real surprise Michigan doesn't attract those businesses? No. Throwing a temper tantrum because you don't like hard facts isn't being passionate, however. It's being unprofessional. How embarrassing.
Chris Fox You guys have been fooled by your politicians. Since your elections are awash in corporate money. Unions are extremely important to ensure that profits generated by an employee go to them. I am a Canadian and I know unionized people that make good money and have secure jobs. That's because we decided never to join the race to the bottom on low cost manufacturing. We build thing's like aircraft engines and computer chips and the technology for building them is only available in Canada not in china or the american south. Like my uncles says "LET CHINA BUILD OUR SHOES AND WE WILL BUILD THEIR AIRPLANES".
***** Oh I absolutely love unions. The insane right-wing politicians are the ones who disapprove of them, because the less rights citizens have against major cartels that run the US, the better it is for their own bottom lines.
***** I would challenge those "facts" if I had the time, but my point is separate from that. Which is... *You wont save the middle class if social dumping becomes the norm!* Right to work just means that the savings comes at the cost of the workers wages... I am pretty sure that if China was a US state and a "right to work" state you would have used it as an example despite virtual slavery is a fact over there.
This is exactly what's wrong with this country as nobody listens to each other they just want to have their side stated. And if they don't like what the other person saying they just talked over them.
Solutions to the declining middle class; 1. People are getting poorer because they don't want to save.(Utter rubbish...the price of goods have increased but wages have stalled.) 2. Get rid of the Unions (the only industry that actually brings workers together to protect working people from being exploited by corporate greed) 3. Lower taxes (already at the lowest they've been. EVER! Has that worked?) 4. Lower worker wages to make your industry more competitive. (industries can be very profitable when you pay your workers NOTHING. We've had slavery in the past and people don't seem to like it.) 5. Don't get Divorced as its a predictor of poverty!!!!!!!!! (Maybe poverty is a predictor for divorce.... Pretty sure if you're consistently worrying about money (medical bills, rent, kids future, retirement) that's gonna have a pretty big stress on a relationship) Conclusion.... Can't believe some of the bovine excrement I heard here!
Get rid of unions? Most of the unions have been eliminated and you believe eliminating the rest of them will FIX the problem? Getting rid of unions is the reason why the middle class is on the brink of extinction. Unions would work with local and federal government to seek rules written in their favor. They've been replaced with corporate interest groups who work with local and federal government to seek rules in their favor. And that is WHY corporate profits have increased ten fold.
I have a feeling the female who was defending corporatism right-wing bootstrapping was a Brahman. I was an International Relations PhD student and was around people like her for years. She knows absolutely nothing about workers her or in her country of origin and will never understand that living in her McMansion.
If you are more stressed out at home when you check the mailbox, or when the phone rings, than when you are at work, you are poor. Middle class means the lack of money is not your primary source of stress anymore.
Absolutely Outstanding discussion!! Every guest performed beautifully. Middle Class issues are tough issues and it takes tough people to take them on. This discussion was as enlightening as it was terrifying. This nation needs more straight talk. Thank You.
The Indian woman was making the best points. Too often Americans feel it is there manifest destiny to have everything their parents had and more and work less to get it. If you spend less than you earn and make daily efforts to increase your skillset, you’ll be ok. The problem is that people see the latest car on tv and think they “deserve” that and they should be able to afford that and the fact that they have to drive a ten year old car is a problem with the American economy. No.
The problem with Americans is that most of us are delusional. We think we own things that required a loan to purchase, and we think we are in a socioeconomic class that we are not in. The truth has been made clear in this crisis.
The Indian woman is a right wing mysanthropic liar. LeDuff was correct to call her out. She advocates making us all SLAVES IN DEBT FOR EDUCATIONS THAT WILL NOT BENEFIT MOST OF US AND THE JOBS ARE STILL MOVING TO ASIA. She doesn't value culture, her God is Money.
As a guy that works a core job (office work) in the automotive industry, I know for a fact that what Ms. Dalmia talks about the automotive industry is somewhat correct. The OEMs, like Honda or big 3, essentially control what you can price your parts to them. They make you fill out papers called "cost breakdowns" where every step of your manufacturing, man-power, processing costs are checked; it's not uncommon to have these people come into your company's factory and decide everything for you. They also expect a 3% cost down every year and make you jump through hoops (and lose money in the process). It's such a cut-throat industry that companies will lose money in order to insure the business and then this sets the price for future sales leading to everybody losing money. These big automotive companies also have the audacity to ask if the tiers have unions. Union = no business from these companies. THEY HATE UNIONS and that's a huge reason they left Detroit. Detroit was essentially fucked for having the auto makers there. Right now there is a push to have parts made in Mexico; it is a matter of time before many automotive jobs are lost. There is no future in automotive in the U.S.
The thing I think the anti-union argument ignores is that the only reason worker's are losing control of their wages is because we've opened our borders to products produced in counties that fire or even kill workers for trying to unionize. We still have some have rights in the country to make demands on our percentage of company profits, as workers, and to demand a measure of dignity in our livelihoods. But why would corporations want respected and well paid employees when they could leverage expendable laborers, paying them just enough to keep them alive- they way you feed an engine gasoline?
I thought that too at first but just because you're a woman doesn't make you a kind, insightful person unfortunately. She was trotting out disproven trickle down talking points and had a totally callous attitude about the hardships and anxiety of being poor.
***** I hope you're kidding. Yeah putting more money in the hands of working families and allowing them to not live paycheck to paycheck wont help them. Dude get a grip.
Except the rich can leave if they’re unsatisfied with higher taxes. Then the burden falls on the middle and working classes to make up for the taxes. Then incentives to work are gone when most of your money is going to taxes anyway. It’s unreasonable with our debt and spending right now. Our future is a devastating economic recession.
The auto industry didn't virtually fail because of high employee wages, but because they built, and still build, shitty cars (though that's changing), and that gave imports a huge boost. Consumers tend not to take risks, and developed brand loyalty for foreign car makers. American big auto fucked themselves.
dieselphiend I want to thank you for pointing this out because it often gets ignored. Talk to the people that grew up during this era. Japanese automakers showed Americans that you could have a car that didn't have to visit the shop every single week and could be cheaper too.
dieselphiend its not only that the cronyism in the world made protectionism into a filthy taboo thing so tariffs that used to protect a countries local buisness are now virtually non existent.
dieselphiend That is false. Not only do American vehicles outsell imports im the US but trucks are 51% of vehicle sales and those trucks are almost uniquely american. It is wages that were the problem.
B RG Look, another clueless conservative. Foreign auto makers hold 45% of the American market share, and an even larger share of the global market. 45%!!!! Just 10% of the market share is enough to pay union workers a good, living wage. So, how is it that America invented the automobile, but lost the global market share? Just bad luck?
dieselphiend actually american companies global market share from what ive looked up was 25 % roughly if you include Fiat chrysler which is now owned by FIAT. Everyone can make good mid range cars now a days so the margins in profits are small especially in a bad economy, the middle class are buying used or going for economy cars, Plus cars are such good quality theses days that buying new ones just isnt needed we have cars from the 90s and late 80s still kicking around. Unions do make manufacturing the cars more expensive espcially because there in america where people expect to be paid well which in a market like the americas which is where these cars are sold the most there are only a few countries that have large middle classes canada and the US, and thats where many foreign cars are taking sales. In europe and asia these markets arguably are dominated by european and asian cars. and i would say europe is where alot of the car sales are right now. the have more middle class and less overall debt. American car companies too lack inovation and are behind other companies show cased by how jeep handled the hacking of there car. and even how the car was set up and so vulnerable. with a weak dollar and high gas prices american companies are struggling to keep there cars economical and relavent . i think alot of it has to do with the america middle class not buying cars anymore.
"There is a huge premium on college education". Really? We as a country have now amassed $1.2 trillion of student loan debt. Every year we have 40 million Americans with student loan debt. And $30 thousand per person on average. So you have students leaving college with -$30,000 over their heads and trying to join an industry that they may not actually get in.
CommunityNirvana it's kinda 50-50 now, some pieces are excellent vice-weirdness, then others are unwatchable dribble like this fake ass room of hipsters with polished industry "experts"
Masaharu Morimoto IDK if you watch the entire series from episode one to seven you'll see that this really interesting stuff and yes it's financial. But it's not like it's talking about bs financial points. But the financial issues of our time. Which is important for our generation in order from keeping this country and the world from going further into the shit hole. Because Tyranny's best friend is ignorance.
The lady talking about how the Japanese save so much compared to americans is misleading. The Japanese have a keiretsu system which is a central bank that requires 20% income savings that go into the central bank. The Japanese have lifelong employment so long as they are able to work and when they are done the government subsidizes them nicely. So yeah they save more but the government makes them.
She is absolutely correct. Americans have learned this sense of entitlement where they "should" have this or "should" have that. That is NOT how the rest of the world works.
It's because she's from a different country. Americans think that they can get things easily. The men in this video go off of their stupid numbers and just because data shows a correlation doesn't mean it's a causation
She's not an idiot she's a mouthpiece for the status quo. They want to keep the advantages from the rigged system that have favored them over the middle and lower classes . Their greed and selfishness has no limit.
you are such a fool not all indians are poor , we have extremely filthy rich billionaires and 150 million millionaires in $ and the middle class is also around 350 million
Loved that guy in the middle. What he says is completely true: rich get tax cuts, companies get money for employing people and middle class can't save because they have to pay for all of this. Plus, work is more uncertain than ever and the so-called "work-life balance" is a dream for the average American, which explains why more and more people in the middle class don't live happy and have fear when thinking about their future and the one of their kids. Detroit was a warming to America to what would happen in a post middle-class world. America is getting there. That middle guy is right when he says Baltimore and Saint Louis are taking the same path as Detroit's and it's same everywhere else except from NYC or San Fransisco that are being bought by the rich. If nothing serious is done to make the rich and corporations pay more and the middle class less, to fill the gap between whites and the other ethnic groups, especially African-Americans, to get politics rid of Big Money and to end racism and violence in police, in short, if America continues to go on the same path, I'd say it's going to be like Detroit in 15-20 hears, maybe less...
Question to the Canadian, as I am one. How is that possible for your parents to only earn $20,000 between two parents? Isn't that illegal? what did they do for work. When was this?
walperstyle it's simple, most low-end jobs purposely schedule you under 20-30 hours per week because they do not want to be forced to offer you benefits as per the labor laws. When your job schedules you to be at work 5 days a week for 4 hours each day, and your physically burnt out after those 4 hours because they get as much work out of you as possible in those 4 hours... It's hard to just go get a second job... also scheduling conflicts stop most people from being able to hold down 2 jobs at the same time. all that adds up to $350-450 every 2 weeks x 26 pay periods per year = appx. 10,000/year
benefits to an employee cost the employer a lot of money, it's been a trend in Canada for at least 15 years to keep as many employees below the full-time threshold as possible to reduce overhead/labor cost. welcome to the bottom of the pile :P
I was working at a bank in Surrey BC making 14hr, it was full time, but there was no way I would ever be able to afford a house, so I moved to Alberta, where there is no PST, and businesses thrive. I got rewarded for my hard work. (that might change now with our current socialist lame government)
Full-time minimum wage will earn you 20k/year so his family obviously is not part of the middle class in which case he shouldn't have commented in the first place. They may also have been service employees who work for tips in which case it's disingenuous to cite the 20k/year on taxes while neglecting to mention the 50k in undeclared tips.
@@samhouston1979 - just having a roof over your head where the school's are accredited and there is at least 1 grocery store within a 5 mile radius of your home. If you are suburban or rural then just having one car.
I see a lot of people hating on LeDuff but he's an important voice. And if he wasn't on that panel, Dalmia would be able to share nonsense and ridiculous elitist rhetoric unchecked.
Comparing America with India or Japan, or any other countries should always be taken with a grain of salt. Every country is different, and what works in one country might be completely misguided in another. Income is relative to cost of living, purchasing parity is affected by necessary costs for survival. When I lived in Korea, I made half what I made in America, but was able to save twice as much, therefore I had a better standard of living regardless of my income. People in this country are really fighting for a standard of living that is decaying, and has been for decades now.
Wrong. She has the right answers. Its right because it obviously has helped her in her personal life. The problem is offering that same right answers to others who dont have the same advantages she had, the same experiences that had shaped her decission and the community she belongs to or works in. Than those ideas and answers become worthless.
@@theallseeingeye9388 she's just profoundly incorrect. Her argument is premised on the idea that people are doing worse economically because they are Mismanaging their money but ignoring the reality that wages have stayed stagnant adjusted for inflation but normal Cost of Living Goods have increased astronomically Beyond inflation. Education, housing, Health Care, these are all necessary Goods and they take off an increasing share of the necessary spending of all households. People are forced to pay for necessary Goods that have increased astronomically and doing so with wages that have not changed in any real appreciable way. All this while productivity has soared. Workers today are far more productive and far more profitable but they are not compensated for this value
@@jasonwilkins1969 you cant dismiss the fact that financial literacy is bearly zero among the middle class in any country. Raising wages and compensating for growth in efficiency are valid points when discussing why a job no longer pays livable wages but it still does not address why and how can that help with redistribution of wealth and wealth growth across the board. The scales are tilted so badly today because most of us had not invested our incomes. Not even partially. We do not have a share in the fat of the lamb. The working class slaved and found they did not have a share of the we The top 30% are the consumers of anything more than the basics now from their investments. Her point is valid from that angle.
I live in Houston, Texas. Didn't finish college (which I still regret), but because of the oil and gas industry I make a pretty good living. I'm considered skilled labor and earn a higher wage then the national average. I flew to Detroit a couple of years ago to pick up a truck, drove it back down here, and I was honestly shocked when I looked around and saw abandoned buildings as far as the eyes could see in every direction. Cincinnati seemed just as bad. Down here while we aren't unionized we live well, however we do work an unbelievable amount of overtime, The family suffers for it. It seems practically everyone I've worked with has been divorced. I guess thats the trade off. There doesn't seem to be a balance. To live a decent lifestyle you have to work a ton. Or be skewed in the other direction like the Detroit auto worker, have awesome salaries and protected by the union. The industry eventually leaves and be out of a job. Either way your screwed I guess.
Companies are only empowered to make the decision to leave cities/ the country because we watch them buy out our elected representatives right under our nose and we don't vote those who take those companies' money out of power. Obviously THAT takes a lot of organizing and agitating work too- but we have to take the power back. No family built with love should be crushed by the arbitrary demands of a company on our time. It's our ONE life to live for chrissakes!
seriously?? @13:50 he gave the must stupid, bullshitted, fluffy answer to the audience member's question. he basically just said "you already know what to do". whereas the Indian woman gave him some solid *actionable* advice: work on your skillset and if you marry, don't get divorced. and then he had the nerve to say that they both said the same thing.
Well, look at the list: 2 cars, house, kids, vacation, health care, college education. Americans said this IS middle class. I say in the rest of the world, this kind of middle is middle-upper class already. So the problem is not Americans work not enough or the economy is declining, it is the standard they set for themselve is too high and desire doesn't match the value they produced. Other countries with such kind of expectation of middle class are: Norway, Canada and they are resource-rich and people live such welfare life by selling resources.
+doufuwang What, wait... So you believe Americans who aspire to have a so-called middle-class lifestyle, in the richest country in the world, in the history of the world, should not feel that they should have a place to live, a car or two, the ability to support their children and pay for a college education, the ability to provide for the healthcare and well-being of their family, and the chance to take a vacation once in a while? Wow, these seem like pretty basic and fundamental wants, many of which are actually necessities, and I'd say if these aspirations are too lofty for the middle class in America then there's a real problem, considering how these very attributes have traditionally been considered middle class and have largely defined what it means to be middle class in this country. What you are saying is that people's expectations are too high and they should really only aspire to be poor. Doesn't that argument affirm the very premise of this video, that the middle class is shrinking/declining and that it presents a problem for society?
Thank god the guy in the middle was there to say what everyone was thinking. Myself and my partner are working out asses off and can't afford to pay rent, pay doctors so we aren't in chronic pain in order to work and not be miserable. The only jobs available are either temp, "private contractor", or very well scheduled to keep us under full time so they don't have to pay benefits. Even a lot of the highways in this godawful state (Texas) are toll and charge you to get to work. We're trying to save money to move but it is literally impossible without some miracle.
Charlie LeDuff proved to be too short-sighted and hot headed to be capable of having a civil and constructive conversation about issues as this series looks to have.
So let me get this straight: Shikha Dalmia's solution to a shrinking middle class is to cut auto-workers' wages? Yes, high wage jobs that can be done more cheaply are at high risk of being eliminated. Like an auto-worker job going to Mexico or Tennessee or being automated. So yes, having a more competitive wage would increase the chance of it existing. But then we still have the same problem. A shrinking middle class. If all of the labor in this country has to take a big pay cut in order to keep our jobs, what kind of future does the average American worker have?
Charlie LeDuff brought the quality of discussion down precipitously. I hope I never have to hear him speak again. The sad thing is that I agree with his politics, but his communication style destroys potential for constructive, nuanced, data-centric conversation. All he does is make declarations, shout, and throw shade.
The more loans you take out the more you'll pay especially interest rates. Tuition and home costs are increasing every year and you wonder why people can't afford it.
This episode had a few problems.. One was running it in Detroit. It made it hard to speak to Detroit's issues without insulting people and made the topic more about the city than anything else. It was also more of an argument then a debate at the table. I'd like to see better research numbers on the cost of living over middle class income. We obviously have different definitions of middle class as the first topic point showed. Why is that? Why wasn't that question asked. I enjoyed the first few episodes but I'm afraid this is turning into a show about conflicts, not discussions. There's enough of that on TV, do this one better.
Kyle Jett I thought that question of “What is middle class” was interesting enough by itself, and is a question that begs to be answered. The differences in response and the reasoning for that, is worth exploring.
"Don't get a degree in women's literature..." glad women's rights are totally shored up so we can go do things like trade stocks. Woman's studies certainly had nothing to do with you being able to sit on a panel of experts and voice your position... We need to make America a place where artistic and creative pursuits aren't demonized and where they are financially obtainable without having rich parents.
Jacob Chak Corporate America doesn't have a use for your women's studies. If you want to make money, learn something useful. It's that simple. Of course you won't agree with that. You're a socialist, right? You don't believe that people should be paid what their work is worth. This country is fucked. You think the Chinese are complaining that they aren't making money with their gender studies degree? Of course they aren't. They're training people in STEM fields, and they're going to leave our genderqueer ass in the dust by the end of the century.
What does Socialism and a product's value have to do with anything? I never stated any particular stances on economics. And yes, the Chinese are complaining. I'd stop thinking of them like we are still in the Cold War, if I were you.
Jacob Chak Women's study is an absolutely useless degree, it is a joke that perverted Marx' theory of class struggle for their own narrative of gender, race and sex. I am glad that you guys are calling yourself anarchists and not Marxists, leave Marxism to adults.
Gothicfan51 Again, I haven't identified as any particular believer in any particular government system. Women's studies was addressed in the video so I used that in my example. I agree, the narrative has been distorted, but my point is that "liberal studies," in general, are a function of a wealthy (in spirit and economically) society. Without perspective, what's the point of it all?
Excellent program about a beautiful city trying to find a way out of their problems. I liked the jackass. The program was full of ideas and debate. Thumbs up!
Madland and LeDuff are well-informed and articulate, while Dahmia is shrieking talking points. I don’t think they should shout her down, especially because she is seriously outnumbered, but they do make valid points.
Basically you need to get jobs back. Americans were tricked into thinking that WTO/NAFTA was good for Americans. All they did was export all the jobs to China, India and the like, leaving lots of people underemployed. Massive wealth transfers happened to these Countries and Corporates, who managed these moves. Top executives colluded for their short sighted "bonuses". Gainfully employed people earn money, build wealth, pay taxes and have a healthy economy.
If you study trade, you'll know the NAFTA and WTO are very good things. Let me list a few pros of trade: 1) access to a larger supply of goods. 2) better quality of goods. 3) lower prices. 4) diversity of products 5) larger market size. Here are some of the cons. 1) some loss of jobs 2)outsourcing 3) unfair labor standards (doesn't apply to US but countries like China) 4) environmental damage (mainly not in the U.S.) Looking at this I say trade is significantly better. I'm not saying we should specialize on one thing, but we should definitely focus on services rather then goods. Although we should have the capability to create our own goods.
Sergey Gevorgyan no YOU need to study NAFTA! It has been the death of the middle class since it's establishment. Even Reagan (who initiated the beginnings of NAFTA) stated the outcomes of NAFTA was not what he planned. NAFTA only benefits American big business, not the greater majority of American citizens.
Sergey Gevorgyan Better quality of products...? Are you for real on that one? Lower prices on Tonka toys? Yah. Lower prices adjusting for inflation on anything that matters like shelter, healthcare, quality food and transport? No. A larger market doesn't automatically equate to a better market either.
susiq1121 yet Reagon prides his Reagenomics which was one of the stupidest things ever so I personally don't listen to what Reagon said. Big corporations? It has benefited me with cheaper products....
fmlAllthetime Yea better quality. Trust me I've worked in retail and I've seen both foreign and domestic products within the store I worked in (Sears) and can confidently say that there are a lot of products that are made with more quality in foreign countries than domestic. Lower prices on goods means since you are spending less on some goods you can afford more expensive things regarding shelter, healthcare, quality of food. Larger market equates to more profits and more power in a world scale.
my fellow americans, yes wages are stagnant, but we generally suck at saving also simultaneously. so when time comes to weathering the hard times, were not prepared.
A Horse Outside LMFAO. Good one. I know right? What a shit hole Michigan is. Instead of making the good decision to move out, those communists are too lazy to make changes for the better, and simply sit on their lazy asses and complain about inequality and ask for wealth redistribution. Pathetic losers those ppl are.
This needs to be entirely re-done after the 2020 unemployment surge. Idk if these people are still as deep into money, but if nothing else, can't we get these people on a video conference?
I am no economist but I am smart enough to know when you can't afford leisure activities such as going to a vacation without impacting your regular lifestyle then you are not in the middle class simple as that.
Do you need a 50 k new car no
Ben Chesterman damn..ppl pay that much for a car nowadays?
HELLO I'M MIDDLE CLASS AND HAVE PLENTY OF SAVINGS AND GO ON VACATION WE DO ACTUALLY HAVE A FUN LIFE SO LEAVE US ALONE AND STOP JUDGING US!!!
Ben Chesterman u must have one. I have a 10yo honda civic. Whats a vacation?
i feel like those people just dont wanna accept that their poor and must save more and start cutting on luxury items.
NEW DEFINITION OF MIDDLE CLASS : ANYONE WHO IS NOT HOMELESS .
mar leo and not rich
mar leo ..lol lol lol..
The middle class was a temporary accident.
@@cheetobag2355 In time. But I'm right. Look at history.
😂😂😂
On this episode of the Business of Life, we get to the bottom of just what the “middle class" is: how to get in, how to stay in, and why so many Americans are falling out.
Learn about The Business of Aging - bit.ly/2pWYOj8
VICE News 1st world problems. That's all this PoS segment is complaining about. People need to stop taking shit for granted, not everyone without the skills or know how can live in a mansion and drive super cars.
VICE News Detroit neds to build America's train industry!!! Detroit needs to crank out high tech American trains!!!
yuubokumin415 You're an idiot. Detroit will start manufacturing Robots in the future. Robots will replace cars.
~ShiftR0ck~ Those robots are called the PRIUS you spiteful gloomy loser!!!
yuubokumin415 How am I spiteful and gloomy you ugly ...but ...face!
If anything that's positive. Robots will be the future.
I worked with a guy who was much older than me. He told me that about 25 years ago he was making 5 times MORE money for the same job while housing cost 5 times LESS than it is now. What happened? Are we moving towards another great depression?
It's starting now boys, we are at the end of a long-term debt cycle so federal interest rates have to go up. It's already gone up 4 times this year, and each time, it has affected the market. The S&P 500, dow jones, and the Nasdaq are all down on the yearly, with the S& P fall this month(December 2018) being as bad as the last depression. Oof right when I'm entering the fucking job market isn't our lives great.
yes we are. buy a few hundreds of dollars of bitcoin and don't touch it for a couple of years
Because that same guy supported government policies to limit building new housing for the next generation so he can brag about his property values from the squeezed housing inventory. They pulled the ladder up on you.
@@sor3999 government tax more killed middle class
@@mulepati what do you say now? (and what the coming years) :)
Vice news asks: What happened to middle class America? Why not start off by asking your sponsor, Bank of America
aneil84 , Corrupt Corp Politicians/Media/Corporations dismantled regulations, laws... protections in place for the American people. Protections FDR put in place because he like Berni3 are true Americans.
Americans need to remember that when we had a strong middle class 1 in 3 workers belonged to a Union, now only 1 in 12 workers have representation in the work place. Company's are not paying taxes and are getting all the breaks and working people need to wake up, trickle down will never work.
What Happened to Middle Class - capitalism did, hon
Curious how many people believe $48,000/yr is a median income?
I think that it's about half that.
The problem with government is that they dont have boots on the ground. Economists send Senators and Representatives these fluffy numbers and they go, "Oh, things aren't that bad."
The meadian of the average person across America I'd dare to say is $25-35K.
Maybe even as low as 20k as the Canadian gentleman said.
This could have been a really informative interview and discussion, especially for classrooms. But right from the beginning, the discussion was lost when the middle guy started yelling. If he was removed, I think this would have been very well done. And the moderator should have shut the middle guy up and allowed the lady to speak since it was her turn.
That guy in the middle interrupts so much
***** he's right since people like populism :D
***** all of the economy is screwing the middle class. No way around it though, capitalism and such :)
shaba supermayn he's also a socialist that doesn't want to cut government spending and stop the glorious social programs that bankrupted everyone.
When you have unions, it increases the price of labour. I Know everyone would love to be paid more, but when there is a dozen other companies producing the same thing, its just a matter of time before your job is gone. ...Its like those people that own a Gift Store in a tourist resort...surrounded by more gift stores.
You meant he spoke up?
I'm sick of everyone saying people just need more skills. Not everyone can be a doctor or nurse or, engineer. Nor can struggling people afford to take on the debt ti attempt to get that training. And once they are in debt the people hiring these people have all the leverage. so they can hire them for less.
Im and air conditioning tech and hurricane shutter in florida. I make 20 an hour and work those 2 jobs usually weekends too. I struggle to make ends meet and i have a bad back. Ive suffered 3 years in pain, struggled to pay bills, and go to bed hungry quite often. 20 an hour isnt that good
@@datmeleeuw I make 12 bucks an hour and eat top ramen to not go hungry. Thank god for noodles
Exactly that's why there should be more respect and boom in trades
Total BS.
Yes sir.
Wait, spending by labor is the engine. No job = no money = no transfer of money = no demand = less production = less profits = the end
AND the end is then rich/poor, haves / have nothings. Neo-liberals will kill the goose (us), what fools we allow to run things.
PROTEST FOR CHANGE, DEMAND CHANGE
DO NOT GO TO WORK 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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A NEW CAPITALISM
ruclips.net/video/oMRowgD0ZZs/видео.html
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well, lets get right to the REVOLUTION
"The three countries, out of 133, that are worse off [in terms of social progress are]: Hungary, Brazil and the United States of America... The United States ranked 19th in 2011. And in 2020 it ranks 28th... The United States ranks #1 in the quality of its universities but it ranks #91 in the access to quality basic education... The US leads the world in medical technology, yet we are #97 in access to quality health care... Americans have health statistics similar to those in the following three countries: Chile, Jordan, and Albania, while kids in the United States get an education roughly on par with what children get in Uzbekistan and Mongolia..." - Richard Wolff
SEPTEMBER 21, 2020
The most memorable pages in Das Kapital are the descriptive passages, culled from Parliamentary Blue Books, on the misery of the English working class. Marx believed that this misery would increase, while at the same time the monopoly of capital would become a fetter upon production until finally “the knell of capitalist private property sounds. The expropriators are expropriated.”
hint hint, two class system, neoliberal (capitalist) KILLED the middle class
rich / poor
Employer / employee
Bourgeois / labor
Lord / serf
Master / slave
In Marxist philosophy, the bourgeoisie is the social class that came to own the means of production during modern industrialization and whose societal concerns are the value of property and the preservation of capital to ensure the perpetuation of their economic supremacy in society.
CAPITALISM IS NOT DEMOCRATIC
AND IT IS BROKEN as in:
you are labor, sorry
ARE YOU THE EMPLOYER OR THE EMPLOYEE
ARE YOU THE BOURGEOISIE OR LABOR
ARE YOU THE LORD OR A SERF
ARE YOU THE MASTER OR A SLAVE
Can you quit your job ? retire ?
No, then you are labor, make that a slave. LOL
when can you retire ?
$10B AT 3.65% = $1M PER DAY $365M PER YEAR
$1B AT 3.65% = $100K PER DAY $36.5M PER YEAR
$100M AT 3.65% = $10K PER DAY $3.65M PER YEAR
$10M AT 3.65% = $1K PER DAY $365K PER YEAR
$1M AT 3.65% = $100 PER DAY $36.5K PER YEAR
$100K AT 3.65% = $10 PER DAY $3.65K PER YEAR
What is wrong ? well punk, are you a slave ?
That's right the Capital brings the relationship of power, class division if you understand it as so. Capital is not only that described by prof. Wolff but also political power that is needed to maintain it, the superstructure. So for example, in 2008 the Gov. could have instead of giving the billions bailout "almost free money" to the financial system, actually financed(bought) part of the debt of the people who bought the houses or whatever. Even if the price was too high, the effect would be exactly the same(maybe better for the bubble) for the economy except that the power would go to save the people and no the rich capitalists who made a lot on the financial system. The money would come exactly from the same place, but without people have lose their homes, etc. Unfortunately, that relative power. Capital is power,as much any previous class system we had. The only difference is that the previous systems used a form of violent dominance over the lower class, while Capitalists uses their Capital and power to create their ideology, including that fake story that says everyone can be rich is just a matter of hard working or good entrepreneurship.
got your rice and beans ?
@Michael Tandy Engineering job skills required have become a laundry list of technical skills, IMPOSSIBLE to master in one life time. Total BS.
I came to call this the SWISS ARMY KNIFE syndrome. No career growth nowadays, no management /technical specialization. do everything.
Load the xerox copier paper, self serve HR, online training, self reporting for reviews, meet unrealistic schedules and no push back..
The real GEM 360 degree reviews, you get the center of a firing squad.. All this keeps bright engineers in the salary hole.
Dissagree and become a Japanese wall watcher ( not fired, just given a desk and a wall to watch) until you quit. Retired LOL.
I had to stop watching. Charlie LeDuff was being, and probably always is, a jerk. The discussion topic and the format are good, that jerk ruined it. He needs to grow up.
@@avinashreji60 that lady is very important to this discussion.
She is the classic example of how people are clueless about how everyone else is living.
Cuffs
Talks about middle class, sponsored by Bank of America.
Tuyit Mufiat THAT is the truth. Panel of "experts" indeed.
Tuyit Mufiat doesn't negate the fact that these are real issues.
Nathan Racher Sponsorships influence direction of discussions.
Tuyit Mufiat hahahahaha true..
kr00m So, how is that relevant? Museums have exhibits that are sponsored by corporations, and by the very rich. Doesn't make the museums puppets of the top 1%.
Very disappointed with Vice News here. The topic and the general questions posed are very relevant but this show seems like another one from Bill O'Reilly, just some senseless emotional shouting and not a well-formed moderated debate.
Yeah this segment was very important. They ruined it because the guests were arguing like teenagers interrupting each other. They need to redo this type of segment again. However the commentators need to act more professionally in a debate to actually have clarity in their arguments.
@@PedroHernandez-uj9oz - remove the drunk in the middle, and you will have a real discussion
The guy in the middle is the worst. Please don't have him on again.
My friend I COMPLETELY disagree!!!
He was my favorite; he spoke from the heart but backed it up with facts! Whereas the woman is my least favorite
The woman may be educated and done research and shit but debates in an irritating and insensitive manner.
She is unbelievably arrogant because she tries to project here own reality and personal experience on everyone else. She wants to place all the blame/responsibility at the feet of each individual, while it's somewhat right in that because of past systems people do spend too much. At the same time tuition costs, lower wages, corporations sucking money out of government and lower wages unless you are at the top. Corporations and our own Government seem to both need better checks and balances. She is also oversimplifying the issues throughout the discussion. It is really arrogant and extremely off putting.
Edit: Educated or not she is in a bubble. Sorta like Steve Job's infamous Reality-Distortion-Field that was at the crux of most of his flaws.
You should have listened to the guy in the middle!! The year is now 2018 and the woman looks like an idiot.
That dude in the middle needs to chill. He has good points, but damn. Back off out of other people's space, man. Verbally and physically.
If I was next to the Indian lady, who is lying faster than you can say wtf, I'm surprised he stayed as calm as he did. Also, listen to her arguments, they're all so far-fetched, but she keeps bulldozing through them like they are facts.
@@mulepati interesting point you made.
The lady isnt lying. She is speaking from her experience, the choices she had made and how good her life is due to the choices she made.
Which obviously puts her above the middle class.
Obviously those not in her shoes are bewildered at her points literally asking themselves of this lady is from their community. She obviously isnt.
Now this is an interesting dynamic at play. We are clueless on how those around us are living. We are so cocooned in our own class strata we cannot understand what those different from us are facing.
Follow the following rules and you'll be fine in most cases:
1. Don't buy a home, especially now when the days of a 'steady job' are over.
2. Never buy a NEW car, get a good used one instead
3. Don't get kids if you can't afford them, they will eat your money
4. Live close to work, work close to where you live. Commuting is expensive and time-consuming
5. Don't waste tens of thousands of dollars on a worthless college degree. Your student loan WILL crush you.
6. Never go for the newest smartphone
7. Don't go on fancy holidays if you can't afford them
8. Don't buy stuff you don't really need
9. Think. Add and subtract. Do the math
10. Don't feel 'entitled' to anything. Just because a previous generation had a certain standard of living doesn't make it a god-given human right.
You forgot a big don't: DO NOT GET MARRIED!
Excellent list, but #4 isn't feasible as most jobs require a commute because the jobs that pay a living wage are usually in more affluent commercial areas. Number 5 is also debateable because most living wage jobs require secondary education.
I'm 50, an ultrasound Tech, bachelor's degree, I have 4 kids, no child support ever, I have a hard time putting any food in our fridge, vacations? what's a vacation? Used car, no vacations, no new clothes, hardly any food, retirement? I don't think about retirement, I'll probably be working when I die, just drop dead at work...this is so ridiculous to argue about. There is no middle class...there's rich, richer, and impoverished...it's sad but true.
But I must ask, why four children? They're so expensive.
WHY did you have kids in the first place? your own fault
Because part of being a human being is having kids we shouldn't have to decide between money and kids that's why she had kids what kind of question is that. Family bonds is the backbone of society our problem is that we are too focused on money.
Idaliz De Leon I’ll never understand a day in my life why people would want to have kids.
Camerons Car Reviews
I guess we’ll never understand a day in life why your parents decided to have you. 😐
3:46 Sorry bruh, but you're just poor, not middle class.
I only considered myself working class and not middle class until just recently, and I expect and strove for most of the things on that list.
Even Beggars on the street in this country consider themselves as Middle Class and staunch Republicans.
Basically. "Middle Class" is meaningless the way most people, especially politicians and the news media, use it?
Exactly
damn bruh sorry your such a tool . it took a lot for that man to come out and openly say what he did and be so straight forward about it , that's the type of honesty that changes things , situations , lives . but hes just poor lol so .... and good for you bruh workin so hard .. good for you :D
cityofdreams95
Yeah, I care about someone who starts off with insults because I have thoughts different than his. This is a case of considering the source, and the source clearly isn't worth much.
And I don't care what it took for him to speak, it has zero to do with what I said. He's not middle class. What part of that can't you comprehend? What am I asking. Clearly all of it.
A very strong way to bring crime down is education.. Those tax payers shouldn't be investing in a sports arena when schools need the money to educate people. It's just sad.
Take a hike Suzy
@TRUTH HURTS! wealth for the owners.
@@AirahsELL i think they tend to be money drains, agree that burning the money on education would do better
The guy in the middle's a mean drunk!
***** fuck you, charlie is the shit!
***** no he's just frustrated because he's making sense and the lady net to him isn't.
oscar zafra Like he said the problem is that companies pay for laws through legal compain contributions (like a bribe, but legal). If compain contributions would not play a role (make some caps on amount...etc), then majority would decide, like it is supposed to. This would solve all major issues...since people know what they want or atleast get there eventually.
oscar zafra
You just have to act crazzy to get people to notice. I would call it controlled rage.
circa blonk That's really a horrible argument.
'Go to college ' Can't pay student loan debt ' your fault'. I love how the solution is to know your future fully, know your wife or husband will never leave you , know your major will be profitable in 10 years.
The guy on the left did not get to talk enough and I definetely wanted to hear more about his thoughts which were much better constructed and organized, rather than a shouting match between the two other speakers.
Sounds like most of us have a slim set of options for living what was considered middle class 20 to 40 years ago, and accept that most US citizens get to live a peasant like existence. Looking at a Stanford study on STEM degrees vs. jobs doesn't look promising either. So college means you buy a 50 to 120 thousand dollar lottery ticket to enter in the lottery of affluence. The other option is there is a massive civil and class war in America which has the potential to destroy what's left of a functioning infrastructure.
Hear my story:
I'm already 8k in debt and feel somewhat alienated from the majority of the college students I'm around, and to be honest if my old job paid a living wage I would not have gone back to college this old. After rent prices increased in my city I had to move 16 miles from work without a car. My commutes were 2 hours one way on public transit. I found myself going to work, then going directly home to sleep 6 days a week only to be broke every month. After 2 years of that I broke down, moved back home with my parents and went to school full time in the hopes of getting a better paying job so I can be more than a wage slave. At this point that three years to graduation seems a long ways away with massive debts.
Many of my friends and acquaintances are working class people. They have no interest in college because they feel disengaged with what colleges have to offer. Additionally they want to work in the trades, own a home, go bowling on the weekends and enjoy their family and friends. I opted out of the working class at 28, and am a first year CS student. I love programming and computers, but every job posting I see wants some kind of technical degree which makes sense, who wants to hire a prep cook to write their software for them.
Shikha Dalmia is spot on. "Should have" is not a defensible argument for wanting to keep up with the Joneses.
@Lemmy taxes would also tremendously go up
He meant "should have" relative to the the fact that this is the richest nation on the planet and technically the goods were attainable just a few years ago
I want to see Charlie LeDuff interview Donald Trump. I would pay to watch that.
Best Episode So Far, I am surprised how politics jumped in so so quickly. It started the moment when he asked who identifies with the middle class and it got more exciting from that point on.
Despite what the guy in the middle is coming off as, he's the one who is actually talking a bit of truth in the argument. I nearly laughed when the lady to the right said the price of housing is going down............ please
Kenneth McAusland As compared to 2006 (housing peak).
All of them annoyed me. The lady of the right pissed me off the most. She's just happy because her country of origin (India) is doing better at the American expense. I would love to see her try to live for one month on the lower middle class income. She probably banks 6 figures a year.
Honestly I would kill to make the median middle class income. I still save despite my meager earnings .
@@dennisp8520 The lady's voice does seem squeaky. It is difficult understanding her. And, when she interrupts the others, it is very irritating.
@@dennisp8520 I agree, many US jobs have been outsourced to India by US corporations, particularly IT jobs that now operate remotely.
@@2morrow789 partly because of rising minimum wage...
When I was a kid back in the late 60’s my dad made $98 a week, his first weeks paycheck covered the rent, food, utilities and a car loan, he was able to save 3 weeks pay! He wasn’t even a skilled laborer & we were considered poor! Never a vacation or eating out! Today that’s impossible!
This was my least favorite episode by far. WAY too much bickering. I come to Vice to get away from Fox news style squabbles.
Charlie LeDuff is such a little manbaby. I get that he's super passionate about this, but he's arguing facts with sentimentality. The US free market is harsh, and Detroit got out competed by unionized parts of our market. Right to work states aren't popular with corporations that prefer unions (especially like Asian and German car manufactures). Is it any real surprise Michigan doesn't attract those businesses? No.
Throwing a temper tantrum because you don't like hard facts isn't being passionate, however. It's being unprofessional. How embarrassing.
I totaly agree i wanted to stop watching because he was so disrespectfull that it almost wasnt a debate any more
Chris Fox You guys have been fooled by your politicians. Since your elections are awash in corporate money. Unions are extremely important to ensure that profits generated by an employee go to them. I am a Canadian and I know unionized people that make good money and have secure jobs. That's because we decided never to join the race to the bottom on low cost manufacturing. We build thing's like aircraft engines and computer chips and the technology for building them is only available in Canada not in china or the american south. Like my uncles says "LET CHINA BUILD OUR SHOES AND WE WILL BUILD THEIR AIRPLANES".
***** Oh I absolutely love unions. The insane right-wing politicians are the ones who disapprove of them, because the less rights citizens have against major cartels that run the US, the better it is for their own bottom lines.
Chris Fox lul free markets
*****
I would challenge those "facts" if I had the time, but my point is separate from that. Which is... *You wont save the middle class if social dumping becomes the norm!* Right to work just means that the savings comes at the cost of the workers wages...
I am pretty sure that if China was a US state and a "right to work" state you would have used it as an example despite virtual slavery is a fact over there.
Jesus can one person talk at a time.
JESUS PLZ STOP EVERYONE TALKING BAD ABOUT MIDDLE CLASS WE'RE DOING JUST FINE IN THE NAME OF JESUS I PRAY AMEN!!!
+Jennifer Dempster You may be doing fine, but don't speak for the rest of us; many are not doing fine at all.
I thumbs this video because of that. It sounds like a high school drama debate than full grown adults talking about a serious topic at hand.
This is exactly what's wrong with this country as nobody listens to each other they just want to have their side stated. And if they don't like what the other person saying they just talked over them.
Shikha Dalmia is a koch brothers mouthpiece !!!
Solutions to the declining middle class;
1. People are getting poorer because they don't want to save.(Utter rubbish...the price of goods have increased but wages have stalled.)
2. Get rid of the Unions (the only industry that actually brings workers together to protect working people from being exploited by corporate greed)
3. Lower taxes (already at the lowest they've been. EVER! Has that worked?)
4. Lower worker wages to make your industry more competitive. (industries can be very profitable when you pay your workers NOTHING. We've had slavery in the past and people don't seem to like it.)
5. Don't get Divorced as its a predictor of poverty!!!!!!!!! (Maybe poverty is a predictor for divorce.... Pretty sure if you're consistently worrying about money (medical bills, rent, kids future, retirement) that's gonna have a pretty big stress on a relationship)
Conclusion.... Can't believe some of the bovine excrement I heard here!
This is ridiculous
Get rid of unions? Most of the unions have been eliminated and you believe eliminating the rest of them will FIX the problem? Getting rid of unions is the reason why the middle class is on the brink of extinction. Unions would work with local and federal government to seek rules written in their favor. They've been replaced with corporate interest groups who work with local and federal government to seek rules in their favor. And that is WHY corporate profits have increased ten fold.
I HAVE SAVINGS I'M MIDDLE CLASS I'M DOING JUST FINE STOP JUDGING US!!!
Best comment on here. That Indian lady can stuff her smug face with her bullshit
I have a feeling the female who was defending corporatism right-wing bootstrapping was a Brahman. I was an International Relations PhD student and was around people like her for years. She knows absolutely nothing about workers her or in her country of origin and will never understand that living in her McMansion.
Mr. Leduff...the simple truth! Very nice! You're really a Mad Man (but in a good way)
Don't buy unnecessary products! Learn about stocks! Work with like minded coworkers! Don't buy Stadiums with taxpayers money!
If you are more stressed out at home when you check the mailbox, or when the phone rings, than when you are at work, you are poor. Middle class means the lack of money is not your primary source of stress anymore.
Absolutely Outstanding discussion!! Every guest performed beautifully. Middle Class issues are tough issues and it takes tough people to take them on. This discussion was as enlightening as it was terrifying. This nation needs more straight talk. Thank You.
We need more discussion like this.
The Indian woman was making the best points. Too often Americans feel it is there manifest destiny to have everything their parents had and more and work less to get it. If you spend less than you earn and make daily efforts to increase your skillset, you’ll be ok. The problem is that people see the latest car on tv and think they “deserve” that and they should be able to afford that and the fact that they have to drive a ten year old car is a problem with the American economy. No.
VERY. WELL. SAID. BROTHER !....I. Agree with. The. Indian. Woman. As. Well....TOOOOOOOO. MANY. Younger. Americans. Think. They. R. ENTITLED !
The problem with Americans is that most of us are delusional. We think we own things that required a loan to purchase, and we think we are in a socioeconomic class that we are not in. The truth has been made clear in this crisis.
9 out of 10? I think its fair to say that most of those people are in denial about being poor. Lower class doesn't have a nice ring to it
Yeah now we get to be "essential workers". How nice. Does it pay?
I really love these american debates about economics. Somewhat inspiring.
The guy in the middle completely lost me when he called the woman "honey" and kept talking over her. Mansplaining = total loss of credibility dude.
The Indian woman is a right wing mysanthropic liar. LeDuff was correct to call her out. She advocates making us all SLAVES IN DEBT FOR EDUCATIONS THAT WILL NOT BENEFIT MOST OF US AND THE JOBS ARE STILL MOVING TO ASIA. She doesn't value culture, her God is Money.
The guy in the middle, Charlie Leduff is awesome. He is honest about the problems we face and has common sense solutions.
I used to think I was middle class. And then around 23 I realized that since adulthood I've been quite poor. lolwell
As a guy that works a core job (office work) in the automotive industry, I know for a fact that what Ms. Dalmia talks about the automotive industry is somewhat correct. The OEMs, like Honda or big 3, essentially control what you can price your parts to them. They make you fill out papers called "cost breakdowns" where every step of your manufacturing, man-power, processing costs are checked; it's not uncommon to have these people come into your company's factory and decide everything for you. They also expect a 3% cost down every year and make you jump through hoops (and lose money in the process). It's such a cut-throat industry that companies will lose money in order to insure the business and then this sets the price for future sales leading to everybody losing money. These big automotive companies also have the audacity to ask if the tiers have unions. Union = no business from these companies. THEY HATE UNIONS and that's a huge reason they left Detroit. Detroit was essentially fucked for having the auto makers there. Right now there is a push to have parts made in Mexico; it is a matter of time before many automotive jobs are lost. There is no future in automotive in the U.S.
The thing I think the anti-union argument ignores is that the only reason worker's are losing control of their wages is because we've opened our borders to products produced in counties that fire or even kill workers for trying to unionize. We still have some have rights in the country to make demands on our percentage of company profits, as workers, and to demand a measure of dignity in our livelihoods. But why would corporations want respected and well paid employees when they could leverage expendable laborers, paying them just enough to keep them alive- they way you feed an engine gasoline?
I love how they keep speaking over the female panelist when she starts to make sense lol.
She was a bit of jerk also...🤷🏽♂️
I thought that too at first but just because you're a woman doesn't make you a kind, insightful person unfortunately. She was trotting out disproven trickle down talking points and had a totally callous attitude about the hardships and anxiety of being poor.
👍
She did not shrink back though, she had lots to say ans she got in where she fit in
LeDuff! A new American Hero!
Tax the rich, close tax loopholes for large corporations, raise the min. wage, make college affordable etc. Its not rocket science.
***** I hope you're kidding. Yeah putting more money in the hands of working families and allowing them to not live paycheck to paycheck wont help them. Dude get a grip.
but not gonna happen ,u know why rich control all rules even govt
Except the rich can leave if they’re unsatisfied with higher taxes. Then the burden falls on the middle and working classes to make up for the taxes. Then incentives to work are gone when most of your money is going to taxes anyway. It’s unreasonable with our debt and spending right now. Our future is a devastating economic recession.
Literally the best episode ever
The auto industry didn't virtually fail because of high employee wages, but because they built, and still build, shitty cars (though that's changing), and that gave imports a huge boost. Consumers tend not to take risks, and developed brand loyalty for foreign car makers. American big auto fucked themselves.
dieselphiend I want to thank you for pointing this out because it often gets ignored. Talk to the people that grew up during this era. Japanese automakers showed Americans that you could have a car that didn't have to visit the shop every single week and could be cheaper too.
dieselphiend its not only that the cronyism in the world made protectionism into a filthy taboo thing so tariffs that used to protect a countries local buisness are now virtually non existent.
dieselphiend That is false. Not only do American vehicles outsell imports im the US but trucks are 51% of vehicle sales and those trucks are almost uniquely american. It is wages that were the problem.
B RG Look, another clueless conservative. Foreign auto makers hold 45% of the American market share, and an even larger share of the global market. 45%!!!! Just 10% of the market share is enough to pay union workers a good, living wage. So, how is it that America invented the automobile, but lost the global market share?
Just bad luck?
dieselphiend actually american companies global market share from what ive looked up was 25 % roughly if you include Fiat chrysler which is now owned by FIAT. Everyone can make good mid range cars now a days so the margins in profits are small especially in a bad economy, the middle class are buying used or going for economy cars, Plus cars are such good quality theses days that buying new ones just isnt needed we have cars from the 90s and late 80s still kicking around. Unions do make manufacturing the cars more expensive espcially because there in america where people expect to be paid well which in a market like the americas which is where these cars are sold the most there are only a few countries that have large middle classes canada and the US, and thats where many foreign cars are taking sales. In europe and asia these markets arguably are dominated by european and asian cars. and i would say europe is where alot of the car sales are right now. the have more middle class and less overall debt. American car companies too lack inovation and are behind other companies show cased by how jeep handled the hacking of there car. and even how the car was set up and so vulnerable. with a weak dollar and high gas prices american companies are struggling to keep there cars economical and relavent . i think alot of it has to do with the america middle class not buying cars anymore.
"There is a huge premium on college education". Really? We as a country have now amassed $1.2 trillion of student loan debt. Every year we have 40 million Americans with student loan debt. And $30 thousand per person on average. So you have students leaving college with -$30,000 over their heads and trying to join an industry that they may not actually get in.
What happened to Vice News that's what I want to know ?
Liberals.
Eze Enwereuzor Neo-liberals.
CommunityNirvana it's kinda 50-50 now, some pieces are excellent vice-weirdness, then others are unwatchable dribble like this fake ass room of hipsters with polished industry "experts"
Masaharu Morimoto IDK if you watch the entire series from episode one to seven you'll see that this really interesting stuff and yes it's financial. But it's not like it's talking about bs financial points. But the financial issues of our time. Which is important for our generation in order from keeping this country and the world from going further into the shit hole.
Because Tyranny's best friend is ignorance.
This is a rhetorical question not a debate starter.
The guy with dreads is poor... He doesn't understand what middle class is. He's ashamed of the stigma of calling himself what he is....POOR.
So this was by far the worst episode... But I kinda enjoyed it. Am I watching vice news slowly turn to Fox?
ragmondead I hope not!
ragmondead funny you say that but fox owns 5% of Vice Media they paid 70 million last year in stakes
ragmondead *MSNBC
The lady talking about how the Japanese save so much compared to americans is misleading. The Japanese have a keiretsu system which is a central bank that requires 20% income savings that go into the central bank. The Japanese have lifelong employment so long as they are able to work and when they are done the government subsidizes them nicely. So yeah they save more but the government makes them.
This was really good.
Love the series! But they have to be longer!! Maybe a 1 hour format would answer some more of the great questions that get brought up
The Indian lady is right to a point. She has a realistic world view.
She is absolutely correct. Americans have learned this sense of entitlement where they "should" have this or "should" have that. That is NOT how the rest of the world works.
It's because she's from a different country. Americans think that they can get things easily. The men in this video go off of their stupid numbers and just because data shows a correlation doesn't mean it's a causation
The indian lady is an idiot and she is operating from a poverty mindset.
She's not an idiot she's a mouthpiece for the status quo. They want to keep the advantages from the rigged system that have favored them over the middle and lower classes . Their greed and selfishness has no limit.
you are such a fool not all indians are poor , we have extremely filthy rich billionaires and 150 million millionaires in $ and the middle class is also around 350 million
Instead of "Do not get divorced", it should rather have been "Do not get married at all".
Well considering the middle class stretches from $30,000-$250,000 per year I would assume a large bracket would fall into this category
Middle class is lower level millionaires. 1-5 million a year. 30k-250k is poor. Trust me.
There's no middleclass in America. Poor or rich only.
@@KnockoutInvesting wrong USA middle class is huge compared to Australia
$250.000. Yu. SAY. ??....Nooooo. thats. UPPER. Middle. Class.
@@KnockoutInvesting NO. Not. YET....thats. coming. In. Another. 20. Yrs. Or. Less ! .... I. Hear.
Loved that guy in the middle. What he says is completely true: rich get tax cuts, companies get money for employing people and middle class can't save because they have to pay for all of this. Plus, work is more uncertain than ever and the so-called "work-life balance" is a dream for the average American, which explains why more and more people in the middle class don't live happy and have fear when thinking about their future and the one of their kids.
Detroit was a warming to America to what would happen in a post middle-class world. America is getting there. That middle guy is right when he says Baltimore and Saint Louis are taking the same path as Detroit's and it's same everywhere else except from NYC or San Fransisco that are being bought by the rich.
If nothing serious is done to make the rich and corporations pay more and the middle class less, to fill the gap between whites and the other ethnic groups, especially African-Americans, to get politics rid of Big Money and to end racism and violence in police, in short, if America continues to go on the same path, I'd say it's going to be like Detroit in 15-20 hears, maybe less...
Question to the Canadian, as I am one. How is that possible for your parents to only earn $20,000 between two parents? Isn't that illegal? what did they do for work. When was this?
walperstyle it's simple, most low-end jobs purposely schedule you under 20-30 hours per week because they do not want to be forced to offer you benefits as per the labor laws. When your job schedules you to be at work 5 days a week for 4 hours each day, and your physically burnt out after those 4 hours because they get as much work out of you as possible in those 4 hours... It's hard to just go get a second job... also scheduling conflicts stop most people from being able to hold down 2 jobs at the same time. all that adds up to $350-450 every 2 weeks x 26 pay periods per year = appx. 10,000/year
benefits to an employee cost the employer a lot of money, it's been a trend in Canada for at least 15 years to keep as many employees below the full-time threshold as possible to reduce overhead/labor cost. welcome to the bottom of the pile :P
Sounds more like one parent was part time, the other stayed at home. If you are in that situation MOVE OUT OF THAT AREA
I was working at a bank in Surrey BC making 14hr, it was full time, but there was no way I would ever be able to afford a house, so I moved to Alberta, where there is no PST, and businesses thrive. I got rewarded for my hard work. (that might change now with our current socialist lame government)
Full-time minimum wage will earn you 20k/year so his family obviously is not part of the middle class in which case he shouldn't have commented in the first place.
They may also have been service employees who work for tips in which case it's disingenuous to cite the 20k/year on taxes while neglecting to mention the 50k in undeclared tips.
Great discussion.
The first young black guy nailed it.The list is bogus.
Ed Denoy then what would be lower class?
@@samhouston1979 - just having a roof over your head where the school's are accredited and there is at least 1 grocery store within a 5 mile radius of your home. If you are suburban or rural then just having one car.
I LOVE this show, but this needs to be longer.
Holy shit these panelists are killing each other
Detroit stand up!! I love the panelist’s energy.
I see a lot of people hating on LeDuff but he's an important voice. And if he wasn't on that panel, Dalmia would be able to share nonsense and ridiculous elitist rhetoric unchecked.
Comparing America with India or Japan, or any other countries should always be taken with a grain of salt. Every country is different, and what works in one country might be completely misguided in another. Income is relative to cost of living, purchasing parity is affected by necessary costs for survival. When I lived in Korea, I made half what I made in America, but was able to save twice as much, therefore I had a better standard of living regardless of my income. People in this country are really fighting for a standard of living that is decaying, and has been for decades now.
That lady seem like she has the answer to everything. ...but not the right answer. Lol
Wrong.
She has the right answers. Its right because it obviously has helped her in her personal life.
The problem is offering that same right answers to others who dont have the same advantages she had, the same experiences that had shaped her decission and the community she belongs to or works in.
Than those ideas and answers become worthless.
@@theallseeingeye9388 she's just profoundly incorrect. Her argument is premised on the idea that people are doing worse economically because they are Mismanaging their money but ignoring the reality that wages have stayed stagnant adjusted for inflation but normal Cost of Living Goods have increased astronomically Beyond inflation. Education, housing, Health Care, these are all necessary Goods and they take off an increasing share of the necessary spending of all households. People are forced to pay for necessary Goods that have increased astronomically and doing so with wages that have not changed in any real appreciable way. All this while productivity has soared. Workers today are far more productive and far more profitable but they are not compensated for this value
@@jasonwilkins1969 you cant dismiss the fact that financial literacy is bearly zero among the middle class in any country.
Raising wages and compensating for growth in efficiency are valid points when discussing why a job no longer pays livable wages but it still does not address why and how can that help with redistribution of wealth and wealth growth across the board.
The scales are tilted so badly today because most of us had not invested our incomes. Not even partially. We do not have a share in the fat of the lamb.
The working class slaved and found they did not have a share of the we
The top 30% are the consumers of anything more than the basics now from their investments.
Her point is valid from that angle.
I live in Houston, Texas. Didn't finish college (which I still regret), but because of the oil and gas industry I make a pretty good living. I'm considered skilled labor and earn a higher wage then the national average. I flew to Detroit a couple of years ago to pick up a truck, drove it back down here, and I was honestly shocked when I looked around and saw abandoned buildings as far as the eyes could see in every direction. Cincinnati seemed just as bad. Down here while we aren't unionized we live well, however we do work an unbelievable amount of overtime, The family suffers for it. It seems practically everyone I've worked with has been divorced. I guess thats the trade off. There doesn't seem to be a balance. To live a decent lifestyle you have to work a ton. Or be skewed in the other direction like the Detroit auto worker, have awesome salaries and protected by the union. The industry eventually leaves and be out of a job. Either way your screwed I guess.
Companies are only empowered to make the decision to leave cities/ the country because we watch them buy out our elected representatives right under our nose and we don't vote those who take those companies' money out of power. Obviously THAT takes a lot of organizing and agitating work too- but we have to take the power back. No family built with love should be crushed by the arbitrary demands of a company on our time. It's our ONE life to live for chrissakes!
I love the guy in the middle- he's the asshole we need
mellowman1001 they're facts and he's aggressive
mellowman1001 lol no
seriously?? @13:50 he gave the must stupid, bullshitted, fluffy answer to the audience member's question. he basically just said "you already know what to do". whereas the Indian woman gave him some solid *actionable* advice: work on your skillset and if you marry, don't get divorced. and then he had the nerve to say that they both said the same thing.
Would have been cooler if they were allowed to go longer. Probably a segment that was an hour with this panel would get way more attention.
Well, look at the list: 2 cars, house, kids, vacation, health care, college education. Americans said this IS middle class. I say in the rest of the world, this kind of middle is middle-upper class already. So the problem is not Americans work not enough or the economy is declining, it is the standard they set for themselve is too high and desire doesn't match the value they produced. Other countries with such kind of expectation of middle class are: Norway, Canada and they are resource-rich and people live such welfare life by selling resources.
doufuwang on point
+doufuwang What, wait... So you believe Americans who aspire to have a so-called middle-class lifestyle, in the richest country in the world, in the history of the world, should not feel that they should have a place to live, a car or two, the ability to support their children and pay for a college education, the ability to provide for the healthcare and well-being of their family, and the chance to take a vacation once in a while?
Wow, these seem like pretty basic and fundamental wants, many of which are actually necessities, and I'd say if these aspirations are too lofty for the middle class in America then there's a real problem, considering how these very attributes have traditionally been considered middle class and have largely defined what it means to be middle class in this country.
What you are saying is that people's expectations are too high and they should really only aspire to be poor. Doesn't that argument affirm the very premise of this video, that the middle class is shrinking/declining and that it presents a problem for society?
Kicking Away the Ladder by Ha Joon Chang.
Quit lying to yourself. You're poor
Middle class & upper class is Australia screwed by high taxation ... Social democracy sucks rather live in USA
if they didnt, they would have to admit they are low class/poor which is a tough pill to swallow...
Thank god the guy in the middle was there to say what everyone was thinking. Myself and my partner are working out asses off and can't afford to pay rent, pay doctors so we aren't in chronic pain in order to work and not be miserable. The only jobs available are either temp, "private contractor", or very well scheduled to keep us under full time so they don't have to pay benefits. Even a lot of the highways in this godawful state (Texas) are toll and charge you to get to work. We're trying to save money to move but it is literally impossible without some miracle.
impressive discussion
What Happened to Middle Class America?
The Federal Reserve and the private central banking cartel is what happened.
Big government is what happened
Charlie LeDuff proved to be too short-sighted and hot headed to be capable of having a civil and constructive conversation about issues as this series looks to have.
Commercial banks (including BoA) CREATE MONEY every time someone takes out a loan.
We than have to pay it back with interest.
Let that sink in.
So let me get this straight: Shikha Dalmia's solution to a shrinking middle class is to cut auto-workers' wages? Yes, high wage jobs that can be done more cheaply are at high risk of being eliminated. Like an auto-worker job going to Mexico or Tennessee or being automated. So yes, having a more competitive wage would increase the chance of it existing. But then we still have the same problem. A shrinking middle class. If all of the labor in this country has to take a big pay cut in order to keep our jobs, what kind of future does the average American worker have?
Exactly! Thats the "at least you have a job"
Charlie LeDuff brought the quality of discussion down precipitously. I hope I never have to hear him speak again. The sad thing is that I agree with his politics, but his communication style destroys potential for constructive, nuanced, data-centric conversation. All he does is make declarations, shout, and throw shade.
The more loans you take out the more you'll pay especially interest rates. Tuition and home costs are increasing every year and you wonder why people can't afford it.
This episode had a few problems.. One was running it in Detroit. It made it hard to speak to Detroit's issues without insulting people and made the topic more about the city than anything else. It was also more of an argument then a debate at the table. I'd like to see better research numbers on the cost of living over middle class income.
We obviously have different definitions of middle class as the first topic point showed. Why is that? Why wasn't that question asked. I enjoyed the first few episodes but I'm afraid this is turning into a show about conflicts, not discussions. There's enough of that on TV, do this one better.
Kyle Jett I thought that question of “What is middle class” was interesting enough by itself, and is a question that begs to be answered. The differences in response and the reasoning for that, is worth exploring.
These guests are insane. And that black dude is tripping thinking he's middle class. People are delusional about how poor they really are.
"Don't get a degree in women's literature..." glad women's rights are totally shored up so we can go do things like trade stocks. Woman's studies certainly had nothing to do with you being able to sit on a panel of experts and voice your position...
We need to make America a place where artistic and creative pursuits aren't demonized and where they are financially obtainable without having rich parents.
Jacob Chak you also need to make cash in life. try to get a job with a literature degree only ...
Jacob Chak Corporate America doesn't have a use for your women's studies. If you want to make money, learn something useful. It's that simple.
Of course you won't agree with that. You're a socialist, right? You don't believe that people should be paid what their work is worth.
This country is fucked. You think the Chinese are complaining that they aren't making money with their gender studies degree? Of course they aren't. They're training people in STEM fields, and they're going to leave our genderqueer ass in the dust by the end of the century.
What does Socialism and a product's value have to do with anything? I never stated any particular stances on economics.
And yes, the Chinese are complaining. I'd stop thinking of them like we are still in the Cold War, if I were you.
Jacob Chak Women's study is an absolutely useless degree, it is a joke that perverted Marx' theory of class struggle for their own narrative of gender, race and sex.
I am glad that you guys are calling yourself anarchists and not Marxists, leave Marxism to adults.
Gothicfan51 Again, I haven't identified as any particular believer in any particular government system. Women's studies was addressed in the video so I used that in my example. I agree, the narrative has been distorted, but my point is that "liberal studies," in general, are a function of a wealthy (in spirit and economically) society.
Without perspective, what's the point of it all?
Excellent program about a beautiful city trying to find a way out of their problems. I liked the jackass. The program was full of ideas and debate. Thumbs up!
Madland and LeDuff are well-informed and articulate, while Dahmia is shrieking talking points. I don’t think they should shout her down, especially because she is seriously outnumbered, but they do make valid points.
The fact that Charlie Leduff is called an expert at anything is surprising.
Basically you need to get jobs back. Americans were tricked into thinking that WTO/NAFTA was good for Americans. All they did was export all the jobs to China, India and the like, leaving lots of people underemployed. Massive wealth transfers happened to these Countries and Corporates, who managed these moves. Top executives colluded for their short sighted "bonuses".
Gainfully employed people earn money, build wealth, pay taxes and have a healthy economy.
If you study trade, you'll know the NAFTA and WTO are very good things. Let me list a few pros of trade: 1) access to a larger supply of goods. 2) better quality of goods. 3) lower prices. 4) diversity of products 5) larger market size. Here are some of the cons. 1) some loss of jobs 2)outsourcing 3) unfair labor standards (doesn't apply to US but countries like China) 4) environmental damage (mainly not in the U.S.)
Looking at this I say trade is significantly better. I'm not saying we should specialize on one thing, but we should definitely focus on services rather then goods. Although we should have the capability to create our own goods.
Sergey Gevorgyan no YOU need to study NAFTA! It has been the death of the middle class since it's establishment. Even Reagan (who initiated the beginnings of NAFTA) stated the outcomes of NAFTA was not what he planned.
NAFTA only benefits American big business, not the greater majority of American citizens.
Sergey Gevorgyan Better quality of products...? Are you for real on that one? Lower prices on Tonka toys? Yah. Lower prices adjusting for inflation on anything that matters like shelter, healthcare, quality food and transport? No. A larger market doesn't automatically equate to a better market either.
susiq1121 yet Reagon prides his Reagenomics which was one of the stupidest things ever so I personally don't listen to what Reagon said.
Big corporations? It has benefited me with cheaper products....
fmlAllthetime Yea better quality. Trust me I've worked in retail and I've seen both foreign and domestic products within the store I worked in (Sears) and can confidently say that there are a lot of products that are made with more quality in foreign countries than domestic.
Lower prices on goods means since you are spending less on some goods you can afford more expensive things regarding shelter, healthcare, quality of food. Larger market equates to more profits and more power in a world scale.
my fellow americans, yes wages are stagnant, but we generally suck at saving also simultaneously. so when time comes to weathering the hard times, were not prepared.
There's people in Detroit?
A Horse Outside LMFAO. Good one. I know right? What a shit hole Michigan is. Instead of making the good decision to move out, those communists are too lazy to make changes for the better, and simply sit on their lazy asses and complain about inequality and ask for wealth redistribution. Pathetic losers those ppl are.
Each person on that panel presented EXACTLY the point of view that their status in society would predict.
Reagan happened.
Why are you everywhere?
Passion without action yields only discord and anger.
YOU DO NOT NEED A COLLEGE EDUCATION TO EARN A LARGE INCOME.
Best. Business of life. Ever
the host should have controlled the guests. should have made one person talk at a time.
This needs to be entirely re-done after the 2020 unemployment surge. Idk if these people are still as deep into money, but if nothing else, can't we get these people on a video conference?
The guy in the middle is amazing please have him more on the show.
Middle class are now poor and the rich are so so so rich.
Homeless are like animals....
Its terrible.