Yeah I mean the subbies just always had their hand in the till so presumably now it's the subbies (not the Chinese) printing off fake stamps on their home printers...
There is another parallel. They had a problem. But rather than trying to understand it, they throw technology at it in a way that makes innocent people give them money for no good reason.
Royal Mail is a privately owned company. Post Office is owned by the Crown. They are two totally seperate companies. Royal Mail didn't run the Horizon system. Horizon was actually implemented and managed by the Post Office.
It's just a thought but which authority is criminally investigating this fraud. Please don't say it's all down to the Post Office, they will only use it to steal more money.
If the problem derives from fake stamps being returned to a shopor post office in place of genuine stamps previosly bought, which are then resold as genuine, why not have a rule that returned stamps are never resold but returned to Royal Mail who can weedout any fakes before returning genuine stamps to service. Thats of course if they are keen to ensure customers are properly looked after.
@@simonbaxter8001 Technically they may be currency. In the old days a receipt or petty contract was legally binding if all parties signed over stamps of certain amounts. I emigrated 40 years ago though and it was something from my early childhood, late 50s.
I have been a postman over 20 years and each Christmas royal mail send us 50 first class stamps in a Christmas card. Used one of the stamps in January to send a birthday card and they got a £5 counterfeit stamp surcharge these stamps came directly from the company
It wouldn’t be hard for Royal Mail to produce an App that you could use to scan the bar code on the stamp to see if it is valid or if it has already been used.
@@kestrimurgel5155 just wondering if your going to copy and paste this comment into every other reply that uses the phrase post office instead of royal mail in these comments?
Happened to us. The pressure on us Brits to be polite and not tell the sender is also an issue. It's probably 10x more common but socially we don't want to tell the sender they caused us to pay £5 for buying counterfeit stamps. The post office should show us how to check for fakes!
Tip of an iceberg I bought a birthday card and a stamp from the local post office ,my son informed me he had to pay £5 at the sorting office to get his card,how do you explain that,I bought these in good faith it’s a disgrace.
I've had a couple of the "insufficient postage by sender , pay £5 and arrange another delivery" cards. No chance of me paying...Royal Mail can just return to sender and clog their system further.
If stamps were bought "In good faith" from a legitimate Post Office branch, then fake or not, they have a duty to honour the delivery without penalties. The customer and mail recipient are 100% not at fault, and the Post Office need to tighten up their supply chain. This is what happens when you privatise a Government service for profit.
Really clever and predictable. They made postage so expensive its worth the underworld forging stamps. Should have talked to the Royal Mint about security.
Did I miss the bit where China was blamed? I didn't hear it mentioned once. And how can China be responsible for the royal mail incorrectly rejecting genuine stamps?
I don’t think the Post office should penalise mail recipients for receiving a letter with a fake stamp as they are in no way involved. The post office should ascertain where the stamps were bought and investigate the source, not the destination!!
Actually it came from a Daily Telegraph investigation, the Henry Jackson Society think tank, and some Tory MPs, but hey, don't let any facts get in the way of your hatred of the BBC.
Why do we need a tiddly tatty piece of paper to post ? ...an antique idea...why cant the post box be a vending machine for a bar code... in the same way we paying for a parking space.? Or ...the postman has a handheld for barcode reader...make it able to write as well ...when the postman drops off your mail - they can also TAKE your mail at the same time....close the loop.
Pay the fines with a forged Fiver. Be a market for them somewhere at 2 quid per perhaps. Would seem fitting. PO to them too. What next? Forged envelopes!
well the parcel companies manage a print at home system that works well, maybe thats the answer or with printing machines in the post office that print out a label stamp, then there is no chance of someone messing with it all.
Good News! The P.O. has undertaken a new policy of incorporating the counterfeit stamp charge into the purchase price of “real” stamps thereby achieving the following:- No need to check stamps are genuine ( therefore saving money, aren’t we good) Increased speed of delivery ( ‘cos we don’t have to check if stamps are genuine) Reduction of cost ( ‘cos we don’t have to keep printing these tiresome stamps and penalty stickers or paying people to produce and use them) Reduced infrastructure ( ‘cos we can cut back on staff , storage and delivery systems) HUGE increases in profits (‘cos the taxpayer payrolls our legal costs and any compensation that might have to be paid out before our victims die) Can We have our CBEs and profit related bonuses now please, we don’t want to wait until we’re too old to enjoy them? Oh, we have to be clergy like Paula Venal to get a Criminal But Exempt.
The barcode also stops people reusing stamps which ain't cancelled. I used to work for royal mail (retired) and the amount of surcharged letter with stamps glued on them were a lot.
Royal Mail has an app that can scan stamps. For some reason it plays a Shaun the Sheep video when it has seen one. I tried it on the real and fake stamp images on the BBC news page about this, both brought up Shaun. So either the BBC fake wasn't fake or the scanner isn't checking validity. Since they have validity checking software in sorting offices, why don't they update the app so it can feed the code it has seen to a copy of the checker for a validity check.
Since the price of a stamp is fixed, ie it’s the same price from a post office, local newsagents, convenience store etc, Royal mail printers should be the only option of purchase
When people say, "bought at the Post Office" it can mean two things. 1. Bought at the Post Office counter, which should be securely supplied and not fake. 2. Bought at the retail counter in the same shop. These will not be from the same source, but purchased by the shop from their supplier. That opens up a number of ways in which fake stamps can be inserted into the supply chain. So probably best always to go to the Post Office counter for stamps, not the retail counter.
0:03 That isn't a QR code, no positioning marks, as two edges have solid lines, while the other two have alternating dots, it looks like a variant of Data Matrix 3:23 The sticker is marked for reused stamp, too, it's possible that the issue here is that the matrix code includes a unique serial number to detect reuse of stamps, and that the system flagged this stamp as reused, if forgery is a common issue the operator might just conclude it was a forgery rather than spending time trying to figure out what actually went wrong.
I always buy my stamps from a Post Office (simply because it's convenient). But if I later discovered that any were counterfeit, I would be extremely angry. I would not be happy with a simple apology and some minor compensation. Whilst I can understand the risk when buying from other sources, I believe that customers should be able to be 100% confident that stamps bought from a Post Office are genuine - and I mean 100%, not 99.999%. The whole idea of a Post Office selling counterfeit stamps is as outrageous as new counterfeit bank notes being handed out by a bank. Selling counterfeit goods is a criminal offence and anyone doing so should be hauled before a court. So, what does it take to ensure that the stamps are genuine? Not a lot. The Post Offices concerned simply need to ensure that the stamps are obtained directly from Royal Mail and should not accept them from customers in exchange for something else. If that doesn't work and it's Royal Mail that somehow is supplying counterfeit stamps, then well, God help us.
Sorry Royal Mail, if you try to charge me £5 for receiving some post I will refuse and you can send it back to wherever it came from. It's not my issue.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR AND ONLY POST USING THE COUNTER AND THE GOLD OR RED STICKERS DO NOT BUY STAMPS! I don't think it's got anything to do with anyone other than royal mail and the post office themselves its not difficult to tweak settings on a printer to make "the colour a little off" I think it's one massive rouse that they are both in on to cash in on, and the post office it's self being government owned (public owned dont mean crap anymore) its an outrage.
Post offices are mostly franchises now aren’t they. Do all of these locations get their stamps directly from Royal Mail? This segment doesn’t seem to ask this, what systems are in place to stop the shop owner from selling stamps purchased from a third party?
I feel sorry for customers and posties. What we are seeing is a Post Office, which should go out of business, and Royal Mail, who are desparately trying to drop the letters business to focus on being a parcel carrier, carry out a systemic destruction of the mail delivery system. I rate my local posties, great bunch of lads and lassies. RM are desparately trying to make it hard to get my post. RM need to attempt delivery before I can pick up at the local delivery centre. They are curtailing the hours at the local delivery centre to make it nigh on impossible to collect my parcel, based on me working 6 days a week. I am now weeding out suppliers who use RM and Hermes/ Evri, or whatever they've changed their name to this week to hide their awful service. I want to get my parcels in one piece vaguely near the time I ordered it. And RM/PO wonder why Amazon is the monopolistic behemoth it is. RM and Post Office have forgotton that customers can choose.
Cameras on every stoplight with facial recognition? Tax on tv watching with mobile scanning trucks? Now bar codes on stamps? The UK is like a museum that only shows artifacts of dying freedom.
It's NEVER the Post Offices fault. Ask the sub postmasters!
Yeah I mean the subbies just always had their hand in the till so presumably now it's the subbies (not the Chinese) printing off fake stamps on their home printers...
Royal mail is passing the buck.
Perhaps it's time to remove the royal warrant.
I don't see Charles approving of this behaviour.
The Post Office tell us that the checking apparatus is “Robust”.
Is this the same “Robust” as with the Horizon system?
There is another parallel. They had a problem. But rather than trying to understand it, they throw technology at it in a way that makes innocent people give them money for no good reason.
Royal Mail is a privately owned company. Post Office is owned by the Crown. They are two totally seperate companies. Royal Mail didn't run the Horizon system. Horizon was actually implemented and managed by the Post Office.
@@lucas_knight Thank you for your informative comment but it was the use of the word “Robust” that I was drawing attention to.
Who would trust the royal mail anymore.
It's just a thought but which authority is criminally investigating this fraud. Please don't say it's all down to the Post Office, they will only use it to steal more money.
Fujitsu...
If the problem derives from fake stamps being returned to a shopor post office in place of genuine stamps previosly bought, which are then resold as genuine, why not have a rule that returned stamps are never resold but returned to Royal Mail who can weedout any fakes before returning genuine stamps to service. Thats of course if they are keen to ensure customers are properly looked after.
Why not just refuse to take stamps back, problem solved?
@@simonbaxter8001 Technically they may be currency. In the old days a receipt or petty contract was legally binding if all parties signed over stamps of certain amounts. I emigrated 40 years ago though and it was something from my early childhood, late 50s.
I have been a postman over 20 years and each Christmas royal mail send us 50 first class stamps in a Christmas card. Used one of the stamps in January to send a birthday card and they got a £5 counterfeit stamp surcharge these stamps came directly from the company
My friend got stamps from the Royal Mail swap out scheme and used them and was told they were also a forgery. How mad is that?
'if the colours a bit off'? no confidence - they charge £5 to the recipient - no recourse - unacceptable, not fit for purpose
Post Office: "GUILTY!! _YOU'RE_ GUILTY!!!"
Simple - just charge everyone the £5 surcharge fee - just like their counterpart the Post Office did with their postmasters.
It wouldn’t be hard for Royal Mail to produce an App that you could use to scan the bar code on the stamp to see if it is valid or if it has already been used.
I think the post office are now the last organisation to get involved in I.T. systems
@@philsmodelmaking2260 Post Office and Royal Mail aren't the same company.
@@kestrimurgel5155 just wondering if your going to copy and paste this comment into every other reply that uses the phrase post office instead of royal mail in these comments?
Happened to us. The pressure on us Brits to be polite and not tell the sender is also an issue. It's probably 10x more common but socially we don't want to tell the sender they caused us to pay £5 for buying counterfeit stamps. The post office should show us how to check for fakes!
Yup, all my Christmas cards were affected. Bought all my stamps from the Post Office counter!
Tip of an iceberg I bought a birthday card and a stamp from the local post office ,my son informed me he had to pay £5 at the sorting office to get his card,how do you explain that,I bought these in good faith it’s a disgrace.
“Confidence they are buying the real deal”….. the seller needs to be confident or be liable for selling fake.
Post Office: "Not ours" Public: "They're **your stamps**
Imitation stamps for an imitation postal service.
China. The gift that keeps on giving....
But they learned fraud from the best... the Post Office.
I really enjoyed the taste of my plastic rice : delicious.
I've had a couple of the "insufficient postage by sender , pay £5 and arrange another delivery" cards.
No chance of me paying...Royal Mail can just return to sender and clog their system further.
If stamps were bought "In good faith" from a legitimate Post Office branch, then fake or not, they have a duty to honour the delivery without penalties. The customer and mail recipient are 100% not at fault, and the Post Office need to tighten up their supply chain. This is what happens when you privatise a Government service for profit.
Tell that to all the proud Maggie Thatcher voters! 🐸
The Post Office isn't privatised.
@@superted6960only royal mail is private
@@superted6960 It's a Limited Company, in business for profit.
@@superted6960almost every post office is a privately owned business
Install scanning equipment in every outlet and check before vending. If that's too expensive then a phone app.
Really clever and predictable. They made postage so expensive its worth the underworld forging stamps.
Should have talked to the Royal Mint about security.
And the overwhelming majority of postmasters weren't unjustly sent to prison - were they??? (Mr Wordsalad!)
Did I miss the bit where China was blamed? I didn't hear it mentioned once.
And how can China be responsible for the royal mail incorrectly rejecting genuine stamps?
0.1% is not increasingly rare. It's just one in a thousand.
I don’t think the Post office should penalise mail recipients for receiving a letter with a fake stamp as they are in no way involved. The post office should ascertain where the stamps were bought and investigate the source, not the destination!!
BBC blaming China.... 😂 Even tho these stamps are bought in UK post offices or shops
Actually it came from a Daily Telegraph investigation, the Henry Jackson Society think tank, and some Tory MPs, but hey, don't let any facts get in the way of your hatred of the BBC.
Shame this was "loved" by the video "creator" (well, uploader of BBC content) as well. Idiot.
Why do we need a tiddly tatty piece of paper to post ? ...an antique idea...why cant the post box be a vending machine for a bar code... in the same way we paying for a parking space.? Or ...the postman has a handheld for barcode reader...make it able to write as well ...when the postman drops off your mail - they can also TAKE your mail at the same time....close the loop.
Extra Profit for the execs every time the yellow sticker comes out
Pay the fines with a forged Fiver. Be a market for them somewhere at 2 quid per perhaps. Would seem fitting. PO to them too. What next? Forged envelopes!
well the parcel companies manage a print at home system that works well, maybe thats the answer or with printing machines in the post office that print out a label stamp, then there is no chance of someone messing with it all.
Yet another Posy Office scandal. This time, thet’re ripping _all_ of us off!
Post Office!
People are selling the stamps on line but saying they are for collectors not postage !!
That's not what this is about though, these were bought from a Post Office.
This sounds interesting. Can you elaborate?
Sad, but this could be the real post office staff scam.
Confidence in the Royal Mail 😂 good one
Remove barcodes. Didn't have this problem before. We need an alternative system for letters.
I bought something on eBay and they sent it with counterfeit stamps - why am I liable?
You're not liable. You don't have to pay and it's the sellers responsibility to still get the item to you or refund.
@@ryanmitcham5522The problem is how do you know which item you are paying for when they leave the card?
Thank goodness the Post Office is so trustworthy * cough *
Untrustworthy royal mail.
The Post Office has the power to fully investigate this, prosecute the offending sub postmasters and send them the prison... oh, wait a minute!
About time the post office was nationalised
Good News! The P.O. has undertaken a new policy of incorporating the counterfeit stamp charge into the purchase price of “real” stamps thereby achieving the following:-
No need to check stamps are genuine ( therefore saving money, aren’t we good)
Increased speed of delivery ( ‘cos we don’t have to check if stamps are genuine)
Reduction of cost ( ‘cos we don’t have to keep printing these tiresome stamps and penalty stickers
or paying people to produce and use them)
Reduced infrastructure ( ‘cos we can cut back on staff , storage and delivery systems)
HUGE increases in profits (‘cos the taxpayer payrolls our legal costs and any compensation that might have to be paid out before
our victims die)
Can We have our CBEs and profit related bonuses now please, we don’t want to wait until we’re too old to enjoy them?
Oh, we have to be clergy like Paula Venal to get a Criminal But Exempt.
And if you think that is unlikely have you seen how much a “legitimate “ stamp from the P.O. costs?
Google was feeding me obvious counterfeit ads for US stamps. They made it incredibly hard to report the ad since I wasn't the "copyright holder".
Our stamps are “Robust”.
The barcode also stops people reusing stamps which ain't cancelled. I used to work for royal mail (retired) and the amount of surcharged letter with stamps glued on them were a lot.
Royal Mail has an app that can scan stamps. For some reason it plays a Shaun the Sheep video when it has seen one. I tried it on the real and fake stamp images on the BBC news page about this, both brought up Shaun. So either the BBC fake wasn't fake or the scanner isn't checking validity.
Since they have validity checking software in sorting offices, why don't they update the app so it can feed the code it has seen to a copy of the checker for a validity check.
Wow the post office never fail to amaze me. This is probably a scam they've been running for years.
The post office is manifestly unfit for use.
Anyone who tries to get £5 from me for delivering something which they think is counterfeit is going to be unlucky!
Are royal mail scanners supplied by Fujitsu
Since the price of a stamp is fixed, ie it’s the same price from a post office, local newsagents, convenience store etc, Royal mail printers should be the only option of purchase
When people say, "bought at the Post Office" it can mean two things. 1. Bought at the Post Office counter, which should be securely supplied and not fake. 2. Bought at the retail counter in the same shop. These will not be from the same source, but purchased by the shop from their supplier. That opens up a number of ways in which fake stamps can be inserted into the supply chain. So probably best always to go to the Post Office counter for stamps, not the retail counter.
Don use Royal Mail anymore,their service is crap now anyway
0:03 That isn't a QR code, no positioning marks, as two edges have solid lines, while the other two have alternating dots, it looks like a variant of Data Matrix
3:23 The sticker is marked for reused stamp, too, it's possible that the issue here is that the matrix code includes a unique serial number to detect reuse of stamps, and that the system flagged this stamp as reused, if forgery is a common issue the operator might just conclude it was a forgery rather than spending time trying to figure out what actually went wrong.
why are post offices exchanging stamps, that should only be done by royal mail. ( post office act as agent for sales of royal mail products )
Post office cant do anything right, can it?
I didnt know Andy Bell worked for the Royal Mail?
In New Zealand the incoming government is putting mail delivery in the hands of couriers.
3:30. R o b u s t. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. A horizon stamp?
Why isn’t the post office sending in people to those post offices? Why should the person receiving them be charged.
I always buy my stamps from a Post Office (simply because it's convenient). But if I later discovered that any were counterfeit, I would be extremely angry. I would not be happy with a simple apology and some minor compensation. Whilst I can understand the risk when buying from other sources, I believe that customers should be able to be 100% confident that stamps bought from a Post Office are genuine - and I mean 100%, not 99.999%. The whole idea of a Post Office selling counterfeit stamps is as outrageous as new counterfeit bank notes being handed out by a bank. Selling counterfeit goods is a criminal offence and anyone doing so should be hauled before a court.
So, what does it take to ensure that the stamps are genuine? Not a lot. The Post Offices concerned simply need to ensure that the stamps are obtained directly from Royal Mail and should not accept them from customers in exchange for something else. If that doesn't work and it's Royal Mail that somehow is supplying counterfeit stamps, then well, God help us.
so if its incredibly rare, why are the innocent recipient being fined? use the bar code to identify the source , its not rocket science, its a scam
They don't care! Its a cash cow for them.....
Don't use Royal mail! Duhhh!!!!
Sorry Royal Mail, if you try to charge me £5 for receiving some post I will refuse and you can send it back to wherever it came from. It's not my issue.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR AND ONLY POST USING THE COUNTER AND THE GOLD OR RED STICKERS DO NOT BUY STAMPS! I don't think it's got anything to do with anyone other than royal mail and the post office themselves its not difficult to tweak settings on a printer to make "the colour a little off" I think it's one massive rouse that they are both in on to cash in on, and the post office it's self being government owned (public owned dont mean crap anymore) its an outrage.
Post offices are mostly franchises now aren’t they. Do all of these locations get their stamps directly from Royal Mail? This segment doesn’t seem to ask this, what systems are in place to stop the shop owner from selling stamps purchased from a third party?
I thought they were going to blame it on climate change.
So what’s the point of the barcode? Surely there’s some security built into that?
I feel sorry for customers and posties. What we are seeing is a Post Office, which should go out of business, and Royal Mail, who are desparately trying to drop the letters business to focus on being a parcel carrier, carry out a systemic destruction of the mail delivery system. I rate my local posties, great bunch of lads and lassies. RM are desparately trying to make it hard to get my post. RM need to attempt delivery before I can pick up at the local delivery centre. They are curtailing the hours at the local delivery centre to make it nigh on impossible to collect my parcel, based on me working 6 days a week. I am now weeding out suppliers who use RM and Hermes/ Evri, or whatever they've changed their name to this week to hide their awful service. I want to get my parcels in one piece vaguely near the time I ordered it. And RM/PO wonder why Amazon is the monopolistic behemoth it is.
RM and Post Office have forgotton that customers can choose.
Cameras on every stoplight with facial recognition? Tax on tv watching with mobile scanning trucks? Now bar codes on stamps?
The UK is like a museum that only shows artifacts of dying freedom.
So not CHINA then? WTF
That's probably what happened to BOB A JOB. NICE LITTLE EARNER.
This story is absurd
Does this happen with money withdrawal or change given in a post office.
Can't they release an app to check the QR code with your phone?
it is possible to make an online site to check the qr code
You don't cut the counterfeit stamp here, you just randomly marking people stemp fake and make up the number on catching counterfeit
Make up some stickers for the old biddys nice little earner Rodney. On ya bike now of ya go.
You can always STAMP your feet
Where is the blaming China part?
post photos of the hand of the postmaster that sold the stamps.
“If you can’t trust the Post Office…” no further comment required.
😃😃😃😃😃😃
What a bizarre way to begin and end a video - half way through a word!
Mate anyone with an inkjet printer and a cricut could do that
0.1% isn't rare mate, that's 1 in 1000
another horizon, basically "royal mail" saying we have a "robust system", we are right, you are always wrong, now fo.