Ammo Evaluation: Romanian 8mm Mauser
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- Опубликовано: 7 янв 2019
- / forgottenweapons
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Towards the end of the Cold War, Romania was a major exporter of arms and ammunition on the world market. Today we are looking at Romanian pattern 1971 8mm Mauser ammunition, made between 1972 and 1978 (this particular sample is form 1972). It was produced at the U.M. Sadu plant in Bumbesti Jiu, Romania. At the time of production, Romania had no 8mm Mauser firearms in active military service, suggesting that this ammunition was made for export (or perhaps a planned weapon which never actually saw adoption). Interestingly, the cases across the entire production run of this ammo are about 1mm shorter than standard 8mm Mauser, measuring closer to 56mm than 57mm. The shoulder is in the proper location, and this slightly short neck does not appear to produce any abnormal effects, either positive or negative.
The ammunition is packed in wooden crates, each containing two sealed tins. It was packaged both loose in boxes (20 rounds per box, 380 rounds per tin, 760 rounds per crate) and also on 5-round Mauser stripper clips (15 rounds per box, 340 rounds per tin, 680 rounds per crate). This particular sample is packaged loose.
Velocity:
I tested velocity using an 8mm Kar98k Mauser rifle (barrel length 23.6 inches). Measurements were taken at 10 feet from the muzzle, with a sample size of 15 rounds fired. I found an average velocity of 2674 fps, extreme spread of 107 fps (max 2716, min 2609), and standard deviation of 25.75 fps. None of the rounds exhibited any unusual behavior when fired. In my experience outside this specific test, this ammunition has never shown and duds or hangfires.
Bullets:
I tested the weight of 10 bullets using a calibrated Lyman electronic scale. I found an average weight of 154.2 grains, extreme spread of 2.4 grains (max 155.4 gr, min 153.0 gr), and standard deviation of 0.86 grains. Bullet construction is boattail base with an open base, and the bullet attract a magnet.
The primers are Berdan and corrosive. The cases are lacquered steel.
Raw data:
Velocities (fps): 2671, 2664, 2677, 2654, 2609, 2695, 2698, 2668, 2688, 2678, 2639, 2688, 2716, 2701, 2669
Bullet weights (grains): 153.8, 155.4, 154.8, 153.3, 154.0, 155.0, 153.0, 153.1, 155.3, 154.1
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
PO Box 87647
Tucson, AZ 85754
'Now let's get this ammo out on to a tray
*Nice* , mkay'
Hahaha, mmmm nice hiss.
Made my morning
Nice hiss
Damned, I had the same reaction after the comment about the "Nice hiss" :D ^^ - great minds think alike, right? ;)
Nice
That's some vintage Romanian air you just released in to your house.
Better not of been means it didn't vacuum seal right lol.
"nice hiss"
turns you into a communist if too much exposure
No theirs micro cracks in the wood box and the air escaped a long time ago I can’t believe people like you exist so stupid
@@courageukrainian2208 its a joke dude. /whoosh
'Horrible Communist Tetanus' is the name of my A Perfect Circle cover band.
It's the perfect name for a metal band!
With such cuts as Gulag (Judith Remix), 3 Lenins, Vanishing (Rations), and The Outsider (Tell us more?)
@@DonHaussettler perfect haha. eat the bourgeoisie (new album remix)
Title of your sex tape.
CANNIBAAAAAALLLL HA HA HA HA HA (island)
"Potentially...'exciting'" Sounds like a 'blast'.
Sam Adams well then
That's what she said!
Private: "I got the ammo box open sir."
Sergeant: "The war ended a month ago."
romania was a socialist republic back then- they had to make sure the locals had a time getting into it, otherwise, maybe revolution again comrade.
@@ClannerJake This type of cans was also used in Poland and for people that got access to them they were good source of
decent can openers(but not like the one presented in the video) as the civilian "socialist" can openers were often dull or broken before you finished opening the first can of food with it(and that was typical quality of civilian products in "proletariat heavens")... ;)
@@ClannerJake indeed, a fascist revolution
Neah. Romanian Army had special civil servants hired to open ammo cans for soldiers...
typical private....calling a Sergeant 'Sir'.... 'March that peasant 10 times around the parade ground, weapon held high'...that'll teach him ;-)
7:43 Nice Steve1989 reference.
that made me happier than it had any right to.
Real rich, wholesome ammunition. Let's put it all on the tray.
@@scoe5908 ....now lets get some of these rounds out on a tray...nice....
Steve would have opened it with a P38 though
exactly my thoughts!
"Horrible communist tetanus" as a romanian , i have never been so offended by something that i 100% agree with.
ANormalDegeneRatEIam as a Roman I pooped my pants
Ho vai engleste
@@codyarndt1796 it's spelled romanian not roman
@@drxgncs90 the people that live in Romania are called Român so he was close :)
@@drxgncs90 maybe he is just from Rome haha
8 mm Mauser was used internally in Romania by the Patriotic Guards who where using old army stocks of K98k, Nagants and other firearms deemed obsolete. They used quite a lot of ammunition for training since all factories and large enterprises had a Patriotic Guard detachment and all the able men where required to have target practice. More details here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotic_Guards_(Romania)
ZB 30 Lmg and MG 34 and MG 42 + mg 15
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine for cost of production?!
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine "It still works, but why was that done?"
As has been established, it works, and if it were to be used in unknown weapons of possibly dubious wartime quality, it reduces the chance of a stuck cartridge incident or an over-pressure incident due to a "short chamber" overall length.
Add to that the chance in mass produced ammo, some random selections of which might be slightly over length.
(Ever noticed a rifleman chambering a round and following up with ramming the bolt handle down with his palm? 2:40)
It might also be better for fully automatic weapons because of the chance of junk ending up in the forward end of the chamber during firing.
Considerations such as these might militate against the factory specification of a 57mm overall case length for their ammo, depending on their confidence in their own capabilities and philosophy of operation.
Yeah, my mother in law used a mauser in the 1970's in a militia type training.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Same reason that they made some 7.62x39 that had only a little lead in the jacket....Yes it existed, I personally bought some old commie production in the early 90s and that was the case. I'd guess that there were quotas that were to be met, regardless of the availability of materials...
Using a dremel to open a tin of ammo could be "exciting". I love Ian's understatements.
The case is short for a reason. Brass expands easier than steel and retracts more as it cools. Longer steel cases with less taper can tend to grow enough that they get stuck. i.e. they get stretched and stay mostly stretched. So they basically make the case a bit shorter so that it has room to grow and still not stick. Barnaul does the same thing with brass colored 30-06 steel ammo, but using a different method. There's a groove around the lower third of the case pressed in.
Addendum, this problem is worse with looser chambers, which have short leade.
Good observation. I was just assuming the communists were saving metal, 1mm at a time, times several to 10's of millions, in a way that didn't detract from the functionality of the round
My first thought was that it was so the neck tension on the bullet would approximate that of a brass case.
8:18
My white bloodcells after I accidentally get cut by it: "Do you hear something?"
Meanwhile in the wound: *URRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!*
Steve 1989 and forgotten weapons BOTH just reached 1M subscribers. Oh, I'ts ON! The You tube has been thrown down....
Nice!
@@johnanon6938 nice, mkay!
Now it's 1.74 to 1.65M.
Musical glass
2million now
I dream of the day when I can walk into the store, ask where the canned soup is and receive the reply that its next to the canned 8mm Mauser.
Nice hiss!
"Communist Tetanus" sounds like the worst possible way to die.
How bad is it, Doc? What did the tests say?
"I'm sorry, Ian. You have...... You have HCT. Horrible Communist Tetanus. There's no cure."
Great band name though
@@DrLoverLover ah yes, communism, well known for it's lack of famines
I spent way too much time laughing way too hard about that.
Huckleberry any regime that on one hand espouses socialist beliefs but at the same time has commodity production of goods for profit and thusly exploitation of the people making it, isn’t real socialism and is more on par with state capitalism Kind of like China
It’s scary to think these things came out of a machine gun with a 1,450rpm rate of fire.
Watching Ian trying to open the tin, I had flashbacks to the scene from the movie Zulu Dawn, where the British army supply personnel are desperately trying to open ammunition crates with a great deal of difficulty, while the British soldiers are running out of ammo to hold off the attacking Zulus.
Said scene was totally bogus.
British ammo boxes of the period had an access panel on in the top, secured by a single grub screw. This could be undone by a single turn with a screwdriver, or a penny, or just kicked loose. And the tin foil sealing the contents could be pierced with a bayonet or screwdriver and then torn open.
Speaking as a Romanian, I find the question mark in the intro text both amusing and incredibly accurate.
"Romanian 7.92x56 (?)mm Mauser"
EDIT: It's pronounced closer to UM Saadoo, and the town is pronounced closer to Boom-besh-tea (one word) Jeeu, in case anyone is interested.
EDIT 2: I suspect part of the reason this type of ammunition was made in the first place was to have a reserve of ammunition for the eventuality where Romania ever came to blows with the Soviet Union, and would need to resort to surplus weapons like the ZBs and the MG34s.
See, Ceausescu had some differences of opinion with the Soviet leadership, such as refusing to send troops to the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia, and his paranoia led him to believe that maybe there might be some sort of vindictive action taken against the country for that. Ridiculous idea, of course. The Soviets would never hold a grudge over something that petty, I tell you. And even if they did, they would never stoop so low as to embargo access to the latest military hardware before invading :P
Still, Ceausescu might have wanted to have some stockpiled ammo to put up a protracted resistance if that ever came to pass
One of my favorite surplus ammo's...I've used it in MG42's, 1919's (converted), Mausers, Hakims and its always worked great. Bought it for $29 a tin/$60 a crate about 15 years ago. Still have 7 cases left.
UM Sadu = Uzina Mecanica Sadu. meaning Mechanical Factory Sadu. They make munition mainly, but also rifles. the WUM Sadu is a semi-auto AK47
They are from the west of Atlantic...they dont know Europe.
The most interesting about the caliber is, that Mauser (today part of Rheinmetall) still produces G98 rifles, which can be ordered in 7.92x57mm
So cool. I want one!
I found couple cartriges of them three years ago when digging in my garden (Slovakia), plus one Hungarian of same caliber plus one very rotten12,5mm - had to google production marks on bottom.
I used to pass through Bumbesti/Sadu sometimes, and you could still see the lines of workers going to the plant every morning
The inconsistency in velocity is due to the stick type propellant. Due to having implemented this form factor of gunpowder, any variation between loadings of the rounds is in increments of sticks of propellents, rather than by nearly microscopic grains of powder.
I shot a lot of that stuff on my Yugo Mauser. I really liked it because it was accurate, reliable and had less recoil than the Yugo ammo I was using.
I've really enjoyed these ammo testing videos. They are strangely relaxing.
Even better than if Morgan Freeman did the voice. :)
Your filming location captured a wonderful thunderous roar of that rifle - Love it!
Is this SteveMRE reference ?
Sonyface Sacrifice no
That would be a fun cross over: Gun Jesus & SteveMRE.
It is always inspiring, seeing a disabled person soldiering on in spite of the difficulties caused by that disability. Being left handed barely slows you down; I salute you!
;-)
Operating the gun or opening the can? I wonder since modern weapons are often designed ambidextrous, if they have cans like these, do they also include lefty can openers?
lefty's are the devils minions . Just saying....
Hope you're just joking here. Anyway, being ambidextruous, I should consider people who prefer one hand over the other to be disabled...
@@killdizzle In Mother Russia there are no Capitalist left handers , truth you were right handed period .. From a US teacher who was in a Soviet classroom , it seemed odd then it her , all students (50 ) were right handed ,, the Soviet teacher proudly proclaimed they had no left handed students In the glorious USSR ... lol
Years ago when my Father's Day gift to myself was a Yugo M48A, I also picked up a "spam can" of this ammo. It shot very accurately in that rifle and I had a lot of fun on my old PD's range with it.
The range was set atop what used to be a dump and off to one side was a huge slab of what had been the concrete floor of a demolished building. The concrete was several inches thick and had the usual steel mesh (steel wires forming rectangles several inches across) within. That ammo would bust right through that concrete (yes, Nervous Nellies, it was safe to shoot it there, it was allowed to shoot it as well, and I was alone). I have a couple of the steel cores from the bullets somewhere that I picked up among the rubble of that busted up concrete. That is some very soft steel. It's harder than lead, obviously, but I could bend it with my fingers.
Fun story: We had several old cars that we used to shoot up. I think a couple of the cars were older than the ammo. Originally we did various tactical drills, and some of us tested different ammo on. They had sat there for at least a couple of years. I was shooting that steel core Romanian ammo one day and put five rounds into the engine compartment just ahead of the driver side firewall. I was curious what, if anything, the ammo would do to the engine. I waited for the huge cloud of dust to settle only it didn't seem to be settling. It was also rather dark and smelled a bit acrid. Um .. wait .. I opened the driver's door to pop the hood and through holes smashed into the dash (these things had been shot A LOT) I saw what appeared to be numerous old bird nests (generations, I suppose) and also flames. Within moments the entire car was engulfed. I got the fire dept out there and we got the fire out. Then, at their request we tried to make it happen with the other vehicles there but it just wouldn't happen. FWIW, I still have quite a bit of that ammo and it still shoots well and reliably.
Love those sealed ammo tins and wooden crates. So happy to see a video done on this ammo! Had a lot of questions on this!
There is something compelling about fresh ammunition--something like opening an expensive box of chocolates. When each cartridge is as--comparatively--nicely made as this the experience is all the better. One just wants to run your fingers through a basket full of the stuff... Weird. Its probably just me!
Its a shame neither container has a full date code. It would have been interesting to know _when_ in 1974 that tin was sealed. Given the continuing soviet version of 'Plowshare' in that period you could probably do an isotope analysis to determine the precise time if you vented and captured the air properly.
the soviets really did something like plowshare? not just one experimental explosion? :o
pretty sure it was made for the African conflict at the time, we did smuggled weapons and ammunition in Africa. and that "tetanus"...not that i praise communism....paid off all Romanian debts.
almost 50 years later those are still air tight and ready to use unlike most things now days that after 3-5 years you have to buy anew :P
the good old days when that ammo was $32 a tin. I still have cases of it.
Back in 2006-2010ish we used to buy those metal cans of ~440 rounds for $20.
*7.92x56mm MD71* _LPS gs_ (Russian > _Legkoy Puley Stalnoi_ , "Light bullet with mild steel penetrator" (Semi-Armor-Piercing), Russian > _gilza stal_ , [lacquered] steel case). All labels and packaging used Russian designations due to Warsaw Pact standards.
760 rounds per crate / 380 rounds per "spam can" - Crate marked _FARA LAME_ ("Without Clips"). Loose-packed in cartons of 20. 19 cartons per can. Loaded into belts and used in MG 42 machineguns. The slightly shorter cartridge supposedly feeds better in machineguns.
680 rounds per crate / 340 rounds per "spam can" - Crate marked _PE LAME_ ("With Clips"). Packed in 5-round clips in cartons of 20. 17 cartons per can. Used in Vz. 24 Mauser rifles.
From what I understand the ammo was made for use by irregular militia units ( _Garzile Patriotice_ , or "Patriotic Guards"; there are pictures of factory worker units drilling and then picnicking and drinking at musters). The regular military units used weapons chambered for the 7.62x54mm M91 Russian cartridge. (Soviet weapons and munitions became standard after 1959). The militias were meant to be a blocking force or last-ditch effort in case of an invasion (like Hungary in 1956 and Czechoslovakia in 1968) or coup d'etat against the Ceausescu regime. They were created to slow down an enemy force while being no match for a well-trained and -equipped regular army unit.
I think Romania still had Mausers and ZB26 in service with Gărzi Patriotice. This was a paramilitary type organization founded after the 1968 events in Czechoslovakia.
Romania actually did use some 8mm weapons after WW2 in their Patriotic Guards national militia, including ZB. 30’s and Vz. 24’s. The Guards were created right after the invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Warsaw Pact, so chronologically speaking it would make sense that the ammo in this video was made for domestic Romanian use, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Romania also made 8mm for export.
Exciting situation for sure. Some might say, sparkling even.
SADU also pumped out some commercial 8mm a few years ago and much of it has improper case size and gives people all kinds of issues. I got a lot real cheap and test it all with a case gauge. About half doesn't have the shoulder bumped back far enough so I use it in my bolt actions. Just takes a lot of force to close the bolt, but shoots fine. My Hakim will eat most of the bad rounds without issue, but every once in a while it won't chamber. I want to say it's SADU 18 headstamp but I might be wrong. There's lots of bad reviews and discussion about it online.
I would love to hear from the factory how that happened...maybe that's why it ended up here in the USA :)
I love these reviews. They are not forgotten weapons, but as surplus ammo dries up the ballistic info may be lost. I like the packaging too.
I can't stand to open spam cans without wearing gloves. Those canopeners aren't very user friendly. Hearing the hiss when the seal is broken is always a joy! Back in the day corrosively primed ammo was sold euphemistically as "sure fire". The only reason I don't shoot any of my 7n6 5.45 is I can't get it anymore and the sealed cans will likely last longer than the new-made non-corrosive stuff in cardboard.
Hello from Romania...Salutari din Romania
Excellent chronograph footage as always Paul!
Thanks for the amazing videos! Watched them all!
Ian's sense of humor is on full display in this video. Fantastic stuff (and a Steve1989 reference! Nice!)
Sometimes I wonder If the packaging is more expensive to make than the ammo itself.
For the military good quality robust packing is as important as good quality ammo.
@@ATH_Berkshire Fair enough, even for export that would make sense.
compared with a bullet price yes, it is. Compared with the whole box...nope.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine in case of zombie armageddon this is the quality of storage you hope for when finding crates of bolter rounds
And some point in Comunist România we send some stuff that was bad we only know after we ship it, and the client admitted that they were not interested in the goods only in the oak wooden box
One of my favoriite videos. Good job Ian.
Pretty much identical in packaging to 7.62x54R. The trick I used to open the can was also a workout for your core and arms. You flip the can over and place it on concrete or asphalt, preferably an area you don't care about, so that you can move it around and the concrete would literally grind the soft metal around the lip of the can. It would take a while but it was an amazing workout and the top neatly comes off preserving it in case you wanted to save it for display or reuse. Easy enough to smooth out the grind edges and make it a nice ashtray or something.
Seeing the chronograph results, that's remarkably consistent for 70's ammunition.
I bought some bulk 7.62x54R stuff packaged in a big ass wooden box just like that several years ago for a couple cheap-o Mosin Nagants I picked up from a local sporting goods store, think I paid like $80/each for the 2 rifles.. Those rifles kick something furious with the steel buttplates.
We had those same spam cans for the 12.7mm ammo we had for our mg's in the Navy. The lining isnt quite asbestos but yeah, prolonged esxposure should be avoided.
A few bits of Velcro on the chronograph flaps would stop it popping off (like in every video you use it lol). Great vid as always. Can't get enough of your content. ThankQ. TkEZ»UK
great video i bought a crate of that ammo and love shooting it and opening it up, it reminded me of the movie rorks rift when they opened up the ammo box for the martine henery
You made my day, I just bought a crate of this a week ago, thanks!
Where did you pick it up at? I've been hunting for some nice 8mm ammo
@@richardseyboldt3960 I bought mine from a guy on Gunbroker who lives just outside of Frisco, TX who was selling it fairly cheap.
Possible users of this ammo:
- Patriotic guards
- Yugoslavia
- Various Middle-Eastern or African nations whose leaders were Ceausescu's good friends
Si uite asa s-au umplut de lovele aia de la Romtehnica, vanzand munitie in SUA, pai ce erau prosti sa le dea Iugoslaviai sau arabilor, care ne sunt datori si azi ?
that and the brass cased Yugo surplus is what I learned on when i was first getting into Milsurps. Lots of fun had and as long as you clean the corrosive salts out of the barrel.
Good evening Ian. Great review. I have an M48 Yugo and just got 780 rounds of the same Romanian ammo that you reviewed. And the price was hard to pass by considering the current market. This stuff is loaded to decent velocities as opposed to any commercial offerings that are available with the Sellior and Bellot being an exception. I'm looking forward to getting this to the gun range. Thank you again for this good review.
The only ammo my mg34 loves.
My Zb26 loves it too. I still have 27 cases of it.
Mongo63a would you be interested in a Chinese 7.62x39 conversion. Has barrel bolt carrier gas block. Needs assembled and refinished.
@@psp1921tsmg I actually have 5 of the barrels and 3 sets of the other parts to convert it to 7.62X39 but I have not gotten around to doing the conversion yet. I use 7.62X39 in my Japanese Type 99 LMG.
Buck Berthod 700 plus shipping
I envy you, i hope to someday own an mg34 or mg42
Steve1989 and FG, two channels that I love but have little in actual common with, 1) because I don't eat 100 year old food, and 2) because I'm British ;_;
You could make collectors boxes with all your videos. Sure your fanbase would absolutely love it!
i have a spam can of this ammunition and have gone thru most of it. its ran well enough so far cant wait to see the video :)
I was thinking about how many chrono's get end up shot, but halfway through that I thought that people who can buy chrono's are likely skilled enough to not shoot them. So I decided to make this comment for SEO but halfway through that I started wondering whether your engagement stats have as much of an effect since you're fully demonetised. So in short I'm making a comment largely for no reason.
Good video though.
My favourite comment today.
I actually love this
Romanian army used vz24 mauser and after 1963 they transit to akm , and patriotic guards still used the old mauser cz24 till 1985
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one having to really work the action to extract the casings
I bought a case of this years ago. Came on stripper clips and the inside boxes were stamped with some info, though I cannot remember exactly what off hand. The spam cans are a good afternoon's project opening with the can opener and the corners were definitely "fun".
I can see California and New York requiring ammo in sealed cans and having to register your can opener no automatic can openers allowed.
On the positive side, grandma will be ready when social security inevitably fails and it's Ol Roy for dinner. Except for Fancy Feast Fridays.
you joke but they're already damn near there in the UK, requiring ID to purchase cutlery, even butter knives, and you're not allowed to have it shipped to your home.
I don't care much about the ammo but the dovetail construction is an interesting choice :P
Edit:
I suspect the 1mm difference could be from its production. If you already have an existing production using a very similar source of sheet metal, you could just adapt the bullet rather than open up an entirely new line of manufacture. In this case the 1mm difference has no meaningful impact on performance.
Or, someone thought they could make a bit of side money by shorting the cases, and pocketing the difference.
If you order material at a certain size and cost, but accept delivery of undersize material, you could split the difference in cost with your supplier.
@@olddragondude4398 Or, they could have been accounting for tight chambers and the thickness of a potential neck sealant.
LazyLife IFreak my Turkish Mauser was converted from 7mm to 8mm and this the mag well was meant for the 7mm rounds meaning the 8mm rounds barely fit and often get stuck in the mag well so I’m wondering if the 1mm difference is because of that as I am certain that it would fix the problem
Or it was just a cost saving measure. Even a 1mm savings in steel adds up over a couple of production runs.
Until you find out the bullets were sat 1mm deeper on purpose in case the ammo was stolen to be used in a revolt of sorts...
I’ve shot quite a bit of this and it has been an excellent, reliable performer.
That action looks smooth as butter
Yes it was cheap around 8 cents a round when I bought mine.
Yep, that's the price I remember also. It was usually the FFL price. I've said this many times in life....I should have bought more way back when.!! LOL
The numbers mason what do they mean
This was a very cool video, my first rifle was a Yugo m24 chambered in 8mm. such a fun gun to shoot.
Cool info. My dad bought some and we found it to be too hot for his original VZ24 and we got a stiff bolt lift on a sporter 8mm mauser GEW 98 rifle as well. I weighed the powder charges and they averaged 49 grains. Appears to be very similar to IMR4064. The bullets weigh approximately 154 grains and are steel core (tested with a magnet). Powder type on the crate was "VT" and made in '78.
So this video has basically 3 types of repeating comment. 1) people doscussing surplus ammo and the romanian production of these specifically. 2) steve1989 references, and 3) "horrible communist tetanus is the name of my "x" band".
4) meta comments
5) people pointing out meta comments
6) people pointing out people pointing out meta comments
00:30
Whatever you say, Shaggy.
You forgot the "nice hiss" comment ! :P
Ian, you mentioned that you're not sure if they produced any in 1971. I have a few rounds left from a case that I bought roughly 10 years ago in Europe and it's head stamped 71.
I remembered the smell of that ammo when you opened up that can.
My brother has a couple of the old shooters Bibles from the 1960s. Seeing World War II era Mausers in there for $40 was awesome.
I was going to ask if there would be more ammo evaluations, guess I don't need to anymore
In the late 1980's we (US Army) were told that Romania was still issuing MG34's to it's border guards and paramilitary units. Not sure if that info was erroneous and disproven after Ceaucesceu got his just desserts......
Well, to be honest Germany and Italy still use the MG42 as their main SAW/LMG and vehicle machine gun, I don't see how still isseuing the 34 would be that bad, the guns were great.
@Huckleberry
The majority of european states are more than modern in what they field.
Using old designs doesn't mean that everything is outdated.
@Huckleberry
You're the guy that randomly started this discussion without nobody saying anything even remotely connected to it.
Ammunitions are all standard, some countries use the same service firearms like M92FS Berettas or the M249 Minimis and individual soldier's uniforms and ballistic vests and other means of protection don't need to be standardised, what's the point with that, it's not like some are better than others, I'm pretty sure that the armies of the entire world, at least while talking about the more developed countries, know what makes a ballistic helmet good and what doesn't.
And just to be clear, both the Italian MG42 (Beretta MG42/59) and the German one (MG3) are not the same as their WWII equivalent, they are simplified and of course use 7.62 NATO.
@Huckleberry
When the hell did I say that now.
@Huckleberry
Half is an exaggeration when all the countries in the EU who use the M74 and M43 for assault rifles that I can think of are just poland, Ukraine, the Czech Republic and Hungary.
I've been watching this channel for a long time, and this is one of the only times I've seen clouds in Arizona.
This is the only 8mm ammo my Yugo M48 won't even chamber. Headspace is a little tight on my rifle but was factory new when I received it from the importer direct back in the day...Now PPU surplus M76 Heavy ball is a different story 👍
I heard another reason why Romania made 8mm Mauser; Yugoslavia, at that time outside the Warsaw-pact used 8mm Mauser in its MG's and sniper rifles. According to this story some ammo was stockpiled in case of war with Yugoslavia so that Romania could immediately reuse captured weapons in case of war. Seems not so far fetched, however no backup to the story found yet.
It's an interesting theory, though I don't think it's probable. There was a time in the late 40's and early 50's when Romania was ready to go to war with Yugoslavia, during the Tito-Stalin split; however, after Stalin's death and Ceausescu's ascension to power, the relations between the two countries improved dramatically. Ceausescu did take after Tito's example and started warming up to the West, and remained a maverick in the Warsaw Pact. As a result of this improvement in relations, Yugoslavia and Romania actually began working together on several military projects, such as the J-22/IAR-93 ground attack plane. If it has anything to do with Yugoslavia, it would be more probable that it was made for export to Yugoslavia in case of an invasion (Yugoslavia did maintain a huge stockpile of M-48s up until the 1990s), but that's unlikely as well, since Yugoslavia was pretty self-sufficient in small arms ammunition production. I can't give you any alternative theories, unfortunately, but I hope I gave some food for thought!
I'm pretty sure some Para-military groups in Romania still used 8mm guns in the early 70s. Even if not, 8mm guns were certainly in reserve, and since producing anything new during a 3rd World War would be basically impossible, they probably wanted to stockpile as much ammo as possible. Another example is that the Soviets also continued manufacturing massive quantities of 7.62x38mm into the 1970s, even though the Nagant revolver had left official military use 20 years prior.
"OOO nice hiss!"
Steve1989 wants his catchphrase back :P
I thought the title was ammo evolution. I watched it again anyway. I love this channel.
My take on that ammo is that it was made for export and probably for the usage in Beutewaffen (captured K98).
You don't get "Communist Tetanus", WE get "Communist Tetanus".
Steel core? Expect range restrictions, even if it's not actually AP.
In this case, a hiss is a GOOD thing--it means the ammo has likely not spoiled; unlike Steve's rations... ;)
**Could the shorter case be to allow for a longer bullet made of less-dense material (steel v lead) to maintain the same bullet weight and overall cartridge length?
That cover keeps popping off. Gonna have a rummage down the back of the sofa for any loose change I can send you
"Nice hiss!". My two favorite RUclipsrs! Love you both :D
Could potentially be exciting *washing coffee of my desk*
Pops seal on the ammo can and "Ooh, nice hiss!" Sounds like Steve1989MREInfo
Used lots of that type out on the ranch ... flood yes flood with windex type window cleaner, the hot gun will quickly dry it. Next use the regular stuff, final bore de-coppering with foam over several days. Not only cheap, but would shoot through oak trees, which is where the bad guys would try to hide. Has a little steel rod core inside. The Yugo '55 heavy ball brass case stuff had 20% hard primers, but would always go with a second strike.
If a "can opener" is not provided, no worries. Walk out to a concrete driveway/sidewalk/whathaveyou, turn the spam can upside down and start scraping the entire can back and forth until the seam is worn through and the top just falls off. Only takes a few minutes, easy peasy...
Really enjoy these videos, too!
"Robert! Cover mi I am reloading!"
7:59
Always been on the fence on buying this ammo or keep reloading PPU and S&B
Gabemando in my experience, the steel casings make it hard to cycle, its really dirty ammo, and has a dirty smell. i havent shot ppu, but S&B is some pretty nice stuff.
Im currently sitting on a stockpile of turkish 8mm, pretty hot stuff that bruises your shoulder with every shot.
Gabemando Keep reloading PPU. They make great brass that lasts forever.
MD names in Romania were (and still are) used as military designations (just like the M in USA). This means that in 1971 this ammo (specification) was formally adopted/accepted for governmental departments use.
This is a top idea for a video, Ian.
"horrible communist tetanus" You're a treasure, Ian.
"Ooo nice hiss!"
Steve1989 Is jealous 😂
I remember in 2002-2003 FAC routinely had that ammo on sale for $23/340. Those were the days.
"Oh, that's a pretty slick bolt..." I think, only for Ian to have to give it a beating to continue. Nice.