Ammunition Evaluation: 1941 Turkish 8mm Mauser
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
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Turkey adopted the 8mm Mauser cartridge as part of its modernization after World War One, and with the assistance of German technicians developed a copy of the German 8mm S cartridge. Most of the surplus Turkish 8mm ammunition available in th eUNited States at this time is 1940s production, with this sample being dated 1941. It was packaged 1400 rounds to the crate, with 20 bandoliers per crate and 70 rounds per bandolier, on 5-round Mauser stripper clips.
This ammunition has a well-deserved reputation for damaging semiautomatic rifle and machine guns due to poor storage causing pressure to increase above original specifications.
Velocity:
I tested velocity using an 8mm Kar98k Mauser rifle (barrel length 23.6 inches). Measurements were taken at 10 feet from the muzzle, with a sample size of 15 rounds fired. I found an average velocity of 2948 fps, extreme spread of 72 fps (max 2905, min 2977), and standard deviation of 22.24 fps. None of the rounds exhibited any indication of hagnfires, but recoil was more intense than normal. Primers showed consistent cratering, and the rifle developed a crack in the wrist of the stock by the end of the test firing. This is definitely overpressure ammunition.
Bullets:
I tested the weight of 10 bullets using a calibrated Lyman electronic scale. I found an average weight of 154.3 grains, extreme spread of 2.4 grains (max 156.0 gr, min 153.6 gr), and standard deviation of 0.66 grains. Bullet construction is flat base with an open base, lead core, and a cupronickel jacket (these bullets do attract a magnet).
The primers are Berdan and corrosive. The cases are brass.
Raw data:
Velocities (fps): 2921, 2931, 2968, 2922, 2954, 2975, 2975, 2951, 2977, 2947, 2976, 2905, 2946, 2933, 2937
Bullet weights (grains): 154.3, 154.3, 154.7, 154.3, 153.7, 154.4, 153.6, 153.6, 156.0, 154.4
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
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Tucson, AZ 85754
The one thing bolt action rifles aren't obsolete at: firing overpressured, old, and dangerous rounds while minimizing risk to the shooter. Also making Ian look cool, but Ian always looks cool.
Autoloading rifles like the M14 and AK's are no more than straight pull bolt-actions with a gas acting mechanism.
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 and still bolt actions are safer because YOU decide when to open the action. semiautos dont give you that... they just do it. and overpressure in the gas system might be dangerous.
If the thing you aren't obsolete at is itself an obsolete thing, are you not obsolete yourself?
@@Elfalpha1
Out of spec, over pressured ammunition offered to the ignorant for cheap never goes out of style... Like the 7.62x25 surplus submachinegun load ammo that ate CZ52 roller locks for breakfast and broke a few Tokarevs?
Smoothly running a bolt action left handed is operator aF.
"known for being very hot"
oh ok like 2750 ish?
Ian : "2921"
HOLY FU-
That’s almost 5.56 speed. That’s hot ammo.
I know right?! No wonder his rifle stock broke.
@@patrickgjorven7832 A lot of turkish mausers have cracked walnut from it. Luckily mine doesnt!
I thought I will be a showcase on how inconsistent the ammo is. 900 m/s on this heavy round....
How the hell anyone put this in machine gun.....
Tbf it's 154 grain...
Some Turk in 1941, probably: "Hey, let's make this batch extra spicy, more velocity is good, right?"
Came here after seeing his latest video today 🤣
Not quite, more a case of the propellent degrading over last 80 years.
@@CS-zn6pp Thats not likely the case. Its just shit ammo. You can use most old Surplus ammo completely fine. Even world war 2 ammo thats been dug up after 70 years and has been in the ground has perfectly fine gun powder in it often as long as the casing isnt degraded too much. If its stored in a actual arsenal and stored properly there should be almost no loss in quality at all with any modern firearms ammo.
Its probably down to people who have no idea about how to actually make that stuff properly back in turkey at the time or using recipes with different gun powder mixtures in the wrong measurements as well which can lead to crappy ammo very quickly.
even ww1 ottoman ammo is super hot, it was all made to run in maxim guns and they gave it to everyone.
@Fat Cat isnt it true that most nations in the period operated like that, one ammo for machine guns so it could cycle, another for rifles.
That video intro was straight to the point. I dig it.
From the gospel of Gun Jesus
On the 5th day gun Jesus said, “Thou shalt not useth Turkish 8mm in thine semi or full auto arms.”
After seeing that crack on his K98, I ain't using Turkish ammo on bolt actions neither.
Depends on the condition of the rifle. I've put hundreds through Yugo M48s but these were new-old-stock as they went straight from the factory into storage.
I've used 1950 and 1951 Turkish. The results from the chronograph are an average of 2960fps.
I reworked a thousand rounds into hunting ammunition by dropping the charge to 44.5 grains and using a Hornady 170g RNSP. Chronographed at 2720 fps and very effective on pigs and goats.
As a comparison 198g FNM chronographed at 2450fps.
Thanks, this was very informative. As a professional chemist, I can remark that nitrocellulose is often made with stabilizers, and poor storage can cause these to degrade. The end result is usually a contraction of the P-T curve during firing, with not much increase in total area (not much more velocity) but substantially higher peak pressures. Fwiw.
I’m not well versed in chemistry, but your explanation was simple enough to be understood by basically everyone with a high school degree and/or amateur hand-loader/reloaded. Thanks for the comment sir!
Yes obviously, but what does it mean 🤔
@@Saturn-Matrix the gun cotton in the powder burned faster as it aged, and that speed made it build up pressure in the gun too fast.
Professional chemist huh. I have a RV in my backyard if you’re interested in a part time job
@@johnboy7417 I'm interested
If Century stops working with Ian, that’s their loss and shady. Ian is being honest and unbiased giving out much needed information.
Scott C century is a shit company
yeah that's bullshit on their part. Ian's review wasn't even that negative, was it? If I remember correctly, he at least said the ammo was shootable if not super high quality.
calska140 I’ll second that. They sent me a rusted, pitted, hunk of “special select” pistol and refused to answer my emails.
Typical Century Arms stuff there. If it's not what they want to hear they just put their fingers in their ears.
@@MichaelEdelman1954 Thats poor customer service....They are the losers as you won't use them again
"My friend lost 2,5 fingers due to this ammo...so let's shoot it"
Can''t get much more badass
(In a gun without a gas system.)
(and it's a bolt action that's actually capable of handling hotter ammo, plus Ian's friends were running this ammo through self loading guns not bolt actions)
I'd love to see a video on that story sometime
He is Jesus he will just grow his fingers back 😂
Or more depressed.
When he said "About 100 fps more," I heard Paul Harrell's voice add in: "And that's a lot more!"
I’m Turkish and an officer and shot a quite a lot of those. Back in late 80s and 90s I remember the “old ammo” was still being in the shelves of the cumbersome Turkish army logistics and they were kept only to feed local village guards’ needs. Village guards were bot given automatic weapons themselves and (if found reliable) given a Turkish Mauser and 80 of those 7.92x57mm in ten “combs” (5 round strips) and +30 loose ammo. Then as PKK gradually lost enough AKs on the field village guards got automatic weapons and old Turkish mausers were discarded, so the ammunition.
They weren’t as bad 30 yrs ago, but had a universal reputation for a violent recoil. Imagine being a young cadet of 14-15 years in military high schools and you had to do your 200m marksmanship training with g98 rifles using these bullets. Shoulder dislocations werent uncommon. Students were nicknaming them as Camel-Farters (deve osurtan) thanks to involuntary flatulence during prone shooting haha.
Nobody lost their fingers though. At least not on my watch. And we used mg42s agains cyprus using them and neer heard of any incidents either. Strange.
Thank you for your first hand perspective on the rifles and ammunition. I've fired hundreds of rounds, probably close to a thousand, through Yugoslav M48 rifles and never had any issues with feeding, extraction, or firing. If the primers are struck, they fire. When I was buying 8x57, it was all that was available in bulk quantities.
But we call Mausers using Turkish 8mm ammunition "Brutalizers" as they hurt at both ends.
@@andrewthorpe3219 Yeah my grandpa had a special 8mm mauser with a marble buttstock (which was just plain heavy)
and it still kicked like a mule
but with normal ammo the recoil is soft like butter.
Ammo doesn't get better with age.
Just another reason that MKE began producing the Hk G3 under license in Ankara-I have a G3 Port buffer for my CETME clone made by POF and it works great!:)-John in Texas
Sayın Anglachelm,
Bu yorumu Türkçe yazmanızı istesem çok mu şey istemiş olurum seni Ekşi Sözlük'ten takip ediyorum,
Saygılar.
Back in the day I ran hundreds of rounds of this stuff through an old Turkish Mauser. Yes it was overpowered and sketchy, but man it was a fun way to get a bruised shoulder.
I pulled all bullets. Weighed powder charges on five and lowered 1.5grains and resized necks and reseated bullets with lowered charge weight. No more pressure signs. Powder grains are graphite coated flat extruded large flakes. Ignition was 100%.
ReDone in 1997.
Try reducing the powder by 4 grains. It works well.
Realizing I have shot hundreds, if not thousands, of rounds of this through my first rifle in high school and college, a Produzece 44 Kar 98K.
Realizing this is probably why I had to stop shooting it after the wrist started to split.
Realizing why the recoil of every other rifle I've fired has always seemed softer.
It is all starting to add up.
Gun Jesus sacrificed his Kar for us
@Adam Halsey would putting that action into a modern stock that does not modified the barred action be that bad?
@@Brandon-wh8hr YES.....
Kar actualy means dick in gypsy language.
May she rest in peace
I was like number 399
I gave a guy I know some of this ammo during the 2020 ammo shortage for a k98 that he picked up. Before I handed it over I repeatedly told him that this is safe ONLY in a mauser action. He reassured me that he just wanted to get a little range time in with his new mauser, but a couple hours later he texted me to say that the ammo worked great and he gave the ammo he didn’t shoot to a buddy of his that has a mg42 that he is trying to get running. I don’t know why someone would risk a machine gun that he probably paid $75,000 for because he wanted to save $20 on ammo.
The echo of those shots were amazing.
I had 15 cases of this exact ammo and I used it in my Israeli converted 308 1919 to 8mm. It shot fine but did wear barrels out fast. I’ve got a Turkish 8mm Mauser and it shoots this stuff fine.
I'd pull the bullets,dump the powder then reload them with newer powder. That way you can be sure it's safer and consistent. In fact,I've done that with the 196 grain turkish rounds with really good results over how it WAS shooting. Once again,great video Ian!!!
When your ammo is so hot; Even Mausers break.
when you absolutely have to have a broken stock..........Turkish Ammo
Holy, that gunshot boom
Will Smith. "Ahah yea. Thats hot"
I got about 500 rounds of this stuff with a Turkish Mauser I bought years ago. Being 14 and shooting this stuff is probably part of the reason my right shoulder is the way it is today… This stuff kicks like a mule and dirty as hell but was fun food for my Mausers for several years.
Can we get a 8mms of the world video?
i think that the 8 mauser was virale like the 76239 is now
@@williamkeith8944 i said that the 8mauser were spread in the hole world they were like 7.62 russian now
@@riadbensebti I like how you didn't put a x between the numbers there
@@StevenL00 i was tierd dude
@@StevenL00 yea he was tired Steven
The fuck
I love the way the report of the rifle roles across that range.
Almost like mag rounds for your Mauser! Holy smokes!
Turks: "with our 8mm, you can shoot through a light tank at close range!"
Keep it around for the great boogaloo, it'll certainly be useful for penetrating level 4 body armor.
If you pull one and substitute a German SmK projectile, it will.
I bought a lot of 1944 and 45 Turkish ammo. Many years ago. It has all gone bang. No hang fires With no cracked cases.
That first shot sounded like a mountain collapsing onto a 2 megaton explosion
I used to own a 1940 Turkish Mauser. I only bought WWII military surplus ammo in cloth bandoliers. Was only $50 for the gun, and $10 per bandolier. Pretty fun gun to shoot, really slapped.
2018: series starts.
2021: 50 reviews in to the series... still no ammo has been tested that Ian would actually recommend...
:p
In recent video about surplus ammo and penny pinching he said that greek .303 is ok, and swiss surplus GP11 ammo is better then any new 7.5 swiss on the market.
Overpressure ammunition: the most expedient way to get a new metal unicorn horn.
Most of the Turkish ammunition of this order I have used has split at the neck, and I appreciate Ian’s initial comment. I have used a large ring Mauser ,have dispensed Of it very prudently , just as Ian has, and would recommend doing the same.
I remember buying loads of that stuff when it was selling locally for around $5-$6 per bandoleer, back when I had a VZ-24 and M48. Never chronographed any of it, but I always figured it had to be creeping up on 3000fps. Wasn't bad firing it offhand like you did, Ian, but it was brutal from a bench after 10 rounds or so.
- "Don't use turkish ammo with any automatic or semi automatic firearm"
* shoots ammo out of a bolt action rifle, ends up cracking the stock after only 15 shots *
So, don't use turkish ammo with any firearm?
A synthetic stock could handle it.
@@marshaul A younger wooder stock could handle it too. This were made to be fired from a wooden rifle after all
That rifle couldn't handle it.
@@flightlesschicken7769 it was also made to be significantly less pressure.
@@jongustavsson5874 This one at least. Assumably this ammo was used once upon a time.
Why would they make such hot ammo?
My Great grandma had Mauser made for her in 1910, and when i was kid my grandpa gave it to me. As you can imagine its stock is much shorter than a k98k and it looks different all together since it was custom made for her. It also has a drop out bottom, and a set trigger. The set trigger is adjustable to basically half a pound. Anyways when i got the rifle, I went to the local gun store in Old Forge New York, and they had 70 rounds of Turkish ammo just like that, and had the same pouch. It kicks like a mule, but again that mouser is much smaller and lighter than a k98k. I think the barrel is about 18in as well. also if you wanted to have a look at it some that would be cool, im somewhat local.
I managed to find some of this ammunition head stamped 1943 and shot it in my 1903 Turkish mauser. The rifle was updated to the 8mm pattern obviously. I've shot the rifle out to 300 yards and the iron sights, when set to 300, are dead on with this Turkish ammunition. Unfortunately, I don't think there is any factory ammo loaded with such a light bullet as the 155 grain steel bullet in these rounds. I do frequently see cracked necks after firing. I think this might be partly related to the extreme crimping on some of the rounds and brittle brass.
@Sağgerici Solgerici The cracked neck issue relates to the neck of the cartridge, not the the rifle stock. The neck is the top of the cartridge where the brass is wrapped around the bullet. The rifle stock could crack even with regular ammunition if the rifle is shot a lot, but the extra recoil from hot ammunition doesn't help. The problem with very old brass is that brass age hardens. New cartridge brass is soft and springy and when you fire a round the pressure and heat makes the brass even softer. The brass actually is so soft it easily expands into the rifle chamber and seals the chamber. But the old brass has hardened through precipitation processes and probably also various chemical reactions. So when you fire this old brass, the brass can't expand into the chamber since it's too hard and instead it just cracks. If the case cracked below the neck, which could happen, it would be worse because gas would vent back towards your face, but gas venting usually doesn't happen when the neck alone cracks. Brittle brass is probably only tangentially related to the rounds being hot. I've heard several different theories about why the velocities and pressures are too high. Some people say the flake powder fractures into tiny pieces and thus burns too fast because of its old age. Also head someone say the brittle brass causes the high pressure because the internal volume of the case doesn't expand as it would with new soft and springy brass.
wow it is so nostalgic video ! my grandfather was an officer in Turkish Gendarme and they always used m38 kırıkkale a.k.a called ''Turkish Mauser''. Actually they are reproductions of the mauser gewehr 98 bought by ottomans from german empire... They served well. When my grandfather was in his hq, my father and uncles when they were as a child, they're always teaches new arrived soldiers to how to dismantle and assemble those unique german babes. they used gewehrs until mid 1950's... after that, american m1 garand rifles introduced Turkish Armed Forces... one of the story as far as i know when we were at the great war of independence, soviets send us mosin nagant m91 riffles for the help. when they've arrived to ankara, the mauser ammunations didnt match with mosins. so they've thinned the bullets one by one in the ''Baruthane''. later called ''Asfa''
The most consistent surplus ammo ever
I recently chronoed some Wolf white box 7.62 x54R steel case out of my Mosin Nagant 91/30 and was astounded at the 3000+ fps velocities and fireballs from the 29 inch barrel. The same ammo blew out primers shot through a Romanian PSL rifle.
Strangely, these rounds did not blow the shades off the Chronograph shades like the Ethiopian and Romanian ammunition. The possible reasons for this involve the antique powder burning curve being more like shotgun powder than rifle powder, so by the time the bullet reached the muzzle, it was all COMPLETELY burned and there was less energy left to create muzzle blast with. As soon as Ian started calling out "twenty-nine..." I knew this was abnormal for 8mm Mauser.
I really wanted to hear him say "Over 3000!"
Wondered that, too. If the explanation for overpressure from ageing from another commentator is accurate, those are two sides of the same coin.
@@UnDeaDCyBorg: The flakes of powder may get more porous with time. In many cases, that is the difference between rifle powder and shotgun powder. These cartridges must be older than nearly all the people wanting to shoot them. On the bright side: the primers all worked!
@@matthewspencer5086 An accurate assumption.
@@nicholaspatton5590 one of the 30-06 rounds he shot a while ago hit 3007 so there's that
Im glad to see a guntuber with integrity, Ian. So many out there in the community would sell someones safety for a chunk of change for a "positive" product review, regardless of the outcome. I really appreciate the work you and Karl do. Have been watching since i was a teenager and will continue to watch. Thank you for all you do.
2900+fps for 8mm! Holy Shite!
Uh what is the FPS supposed to be?
@@Mr_LH1980 feet per second.
@@Mr_LH1980 If memory serves me right, 8mm Mauser is usually supposed to be around 2600-2700 FPS. 2900+ is ludicrous speed!
@@tenhundredkills, when will then be now?
@@randymagnum143 Soon!
We all thank you for the diligent work.
Now if we can just bow our heads for a moment, for the sacrifice made by the stock.
F
I broke my stock.,....bad ammo..
Bad ammo.
I've never heard of this being over pressure before. My Hakim and I thank you. You've likely saved both of us a great deal of heartache.
(I have at least two bandoliers of this stuff some were.)
I bought several cases of this stuff in the early 2000's when you could get a 1400 round case for around $75. They were both 1942 date codes, if I remember correctly. It was good looking ammo once the crate was unsealed. I did not have any problems with hang fires or case splits, but this stuff seemed quite hot. I fired a couple bandoleers and had a bolt lug sheer off in a nice numbers matching Yugo M48. I did not fire the rest of it.
Learned this the hard way with my G43, dude gave me the ammo no charge when I bought the rifle from him but uh, I get it now.
Probably still laughing about it even then.
Mark does a great line in watching acraglass dry, he'll fix that right up
I love Mark but the cost of having him repair that stock would exceed the cost of just tossing another stock on the rifle, or maybe even the cost of the rifle itself.
@@d3faulted2 Just spoke to Mark, he said he'd do it for 4 strokes of Ian's moustache and a "Hey guys" message alert.
Make sure to take the rifle completely apart, toss it in a box and lose one small screw, Mark likes that.
I purchased a lot of the Turkish ammo from Century many years ago. I appreciate this review. I never noticed any issues with my Turkish Mauser. I will pay close attention in the future when I fire any of this ammo.
So story time
When I was a young lad I made a deal with an old man for an old Turkish Mauser along with 500 rounds of Turkish 8 mm ammunition. I was cutting fence posts out of Osage orange trees and decided to shoot a few of the posts that I had cut and see how well the 8 mm did. I had a tree stump that was about 3 ft thick and that 8 mm cut right through it. I told this to a friend of mine who had a k98 with PPU ammo and he tried it and couldn't make it go through and he thought I was lying until I demonstrated for him
I used to have a ton of 1943 Turkish 7.92 and used to shoot it out of my former Hakim before I knew better. Never had an issue, but glad you started off with this. That said; it shot great out of the rest, including a North China converted Type 99.
Is that a Type 99 Nambu or Arisaka? I can't imagine wanting to rebarrel an Arisaka with all that ammo just laying around.
Russell L. Bilzing Arisaka. Works great, and much easier to find 7.9 over 7.7, so the solution the Chinese achieved back then with the conversion still applies.
Colonel K yeahhhhhhhh but the Gas in your face... ugh
I got crates of this never shot in my Hakim only feed it Yugoslavia 198gr
I had some of this with 36 head stamped. I chrono'd it all over 2900fps. Also only about half would fire on the first try, about half of the duds did shoot the second time. I was using a Czech 8mm Mauser copy. I do have one stripper clip of this same 41 stamped 8x57. I haven't shot it yet but I have one box of 1950 Russian loaded 8mm and three boxes of 1942 German 8mm rounds. Awesome video, I always wondered why this stuff was loaded so hot.
I love videos like this. I've got a video of me firing this Turkish ammo, out of a Turkish K. Kale Mauser. Got the bandoleer as well, though mines green. You should do a video on the K. Kale, I would love to learn more about the rifle I own. It has been very reliable so far, machine work seems great, very very smooth action. Extremely accurate. Would be awesome to see my suggestion on a rifle actually come through.
That Mauser is stunning! The dark wood and the perfectly machined parts. Beautiful.
Hi Ian, I saw your Mauser has what looks to me to be a Yugo crest on it. I’ve been looking at K98s and I’ve seen them labeled a lot of different ways. You should do a video of what to look for when trying to buy a k98 from a historical perspective.
It's just a German Kar98k that was captured by Yugoslavia, marked with their crest between 1946 to 1952, and re-issued to their own troops. Sometimes they were fitted with new Yugoslavian made barrels, but not always. There is video footage of these captured Kar98k's being used in the Balkans wars of the 1990s.
Cripes, even their ammunition is ANGRY!
I absolutely love the ammo eval videos. Please keep them coming.
7.9/8mmx57 is by far my favorite round. In the 50+ years I've been shooting German Military firearms ammo supplies have been sometimes sketchy. Aside from the WW2 German s.S. ammo that I horde, the Portugal manufactured 150 gr. has been most satisfactory as of late. In the past I've had success with Israeli and Egyptian as well as Czech and Yugo mfg. Thanks for the tip concerning this Turkish ammo.
Thanks Ian. I have a Mauser 98 and am glad you saved me the heart break of breaking mine.
Another couple of observations about Turk 8mm Mauser ammo that I noticed...
1. It really smells...the burnt propellant it has a sharp, almost ‘pissy’ odor.
2. It’ll really clean your bore....I had frosting in the grooves of my Vz.24 that standard cleaning could not fully resolve, and those hot, over-pressured cupro-nickel jacketed rounds blasted them clear.
As a general rule, I always bring cleaning equipment to the range (especially after shooting corrosive Berdan primers) and I always check the bore after shooting, and I was amazed at how the frosting was just gone after shooting the Turk ammo. A good cleaning with an ammonia-water based solvent followed by standard Hopes #9 and a light coat of oil, and the bore was beautiful. I went home afterwards feeling rather clever....I was rather ‘chuffed’ after that, as my Brit friends would say.
I scored 3 cases of turk ammo at an estate sale.So far I've pulled half the bullets and reloaded the brass with new powder and more consistent charges.One round I pulled had a compressed charge.It looked like the brass was filled almost to the rim and the bullet seated..The berdan primers fired the new powder perfect.
Those had a mean sound to them
Nice name you got there
Sam T, That was the first thing I noticed.
LoL I was using some at a large public range and people on both sides of me were complaining about how loud my rifle was... Course they were weekend warriors that brought their gun shy girlfriends LoL
gunfuego, I had a similar experience, though nobody complained, with my .454 Casull about 25 years ago. Everybody was just curious about the "hand cannon and flocked around to see what was making such a loud report.
i want it *louder*
Great video. Years ago a friend of mine was shooting surplus 8mm ammo he thought was Egyptian through his G/K43 and the ammo was so hot that it locked his action back so hard he couldn't get the bolt to go forward. Makes me wonder if he wasn't shooting Turkish ammo instead?
A British WW1 cap for Turkish ammo test
Nice
@Mike Perez yep
@Mike Perez Australians paid a heavy price for stepping on Turkish soil. That wouldn't be very funny.
Requires a slouch hat, and Matilda will be sufficiently waltzed
That stuff brings back memories. First gun I ever bought with my own money was a worn out Turkish mauser, with a bout 300rds of that stuff. I'm glad I found out this stuff was a no go in semi auto's before running a bunch through my fn49. Probably the only thing that kept that from happening is not wanting through the hassle of cleaning after shooting uber corrosive ammo.
My first rifle was a K Kale m38 Turkish mauser and when I was young and dumb I used to shoot this turk surplus ammo out of it all the time (it was 11 dollars for the 70 round bandolier at the time). And this is the sort of thing I saw all the time. Incredibly hot ammo, the cratering in the primers, and the top hand guard stock is cracked.
After reading up on it and learning of these problems wearing out the rifling, and even cracking the chambers of the Turkish rifles I stopped using it all together. It also had a problem with bad primers and misfires.
I know this is an old vid, but very much like what I experienced with my Turkish Mauser and the 2 bandoliers of ammo that came with it. Took a long time shooting it all because it was so hot. It became a dare each time we went out shooting. But then I started getting split cases, and then problems with the firing pin. Ended up pulling all the bullets and powder I had left. But not until after I used it on a stack of phonebooks. One shot of that steel core ammo tore through 7 huge phonebooks and then broke the rock behind it.
I shot a 1 1/2in chunk of steel with it. 8mm made a hole, you can see light out the other end
It would be fascinating to see what the original QA tests showed on this ammunition to get an idea of how it has degraded over time. Also, a good lesson that old ammo doesn't necessarily go "Fwwww...." but CAN get to the point where it goes "BOOM" instead of "BANG".
I used to use this in my M48 Mauser. My range was 100 yards and shots were way way high. Had to aim almost at the bottom of the target to hit near the bullseye.
I chronographed some old Turk 8 mm (1940) at between 3050 and 3120 out of a German first world war g98 with 29 inch barrel, severe muzzle blast, heavy recoil and all primers cratered, hairy stuff indeed !
There is a video here of a well known builder using this in his mg42. Ill find it and post it in my reply to myself, it was running so freaking fast tho. I remember commenting to him "don't do that"! I think it was serbu but ill check to be sure.
Well I shouldn't say it was serbu because now I can't find the video. It was someone I recognized tho, it wasn't just some schmuck. It was a fairly short test fire video of a post sample, filmed indoors shooting into a bullet trap/test barrel. I wish I could find it because I think it was going like 1600rpm. They also showed a slow motion clip.
Pretty sure that this milsurp was designed for their bolt actions. One time I shot a 3 shot sub 1" group at 100 yards while sighting in a buddy's Turk Mauser that I found and decosmolined for him:)-John in Texas
Yeah, back in the 1990s I got a small lot of this and fired it in my Egyptian FN-49. The 3rd round felt like I had shoulder launched a Tac Nuke. Completely unnecked the case and broke the firing pin (Yeah I know it’s a known design flaw with that rifle). After I replaced the firing pin I went back to firing commercial soft points in that rifle.
that gun sounds real nice on computer audio.
Let's stop a second and appreciate how the k98 cycle and sounds when firing
Thanks for another good video. It would be a good idea to relieve the back of the tang inlet on the replacement stock, as necessary, so that the back of the tang does not bear directly against the stock. Recoil force is not meant to be directed against the stock at that point. The inlet tooling was probably set up so that the cut would be at or under size, with the intent that final fit would be sorted at assembly time, as per standard timber machining practice, i.e. to avoid wasting rifle stocks and/or having to cut and patch new stocks. All it takes is one idiot who wants to ‘streamline’ production by cutting out skilled assembly, to create such a problem in an assembled rifle. I doubt that the timber had ‘grown’ because we are talking about a military rifle stock and not a poorly sealed Ruger or late BSA sporting stock.
Thanks for this video! I ended up de-rating mine before trying to run it
I’ve got a couple of these bandoliers from 1946 glad I found this out before I loaded them in my FN M49
As a reloader I can confirm those cases were overpressure or +p rounds. They are way to hot. I've seen over pressure carriages. They kick like a mule and the primer edges are flat and not round the primer has a less of a divit and in some extreme cases if it didnt blow your shoulder out its gunna blow the primer slightly out of its pocket.
Thanks Ian. Watching your video made me check my 8mm brass196gr Turkish 1950 ammo. Comparing it to a few Remington 170gr and S&B 196gr brass I could definitely see the "cratering" you talked about. A friend gave it to me many moons ago. Clothe bandolier, 7 pouches, 2-5 rds on stripper clips per. Have 60 rounds left, saving it for when it's needed. Definitely corrosive. The K98 has the "f" proof marks indicating that it was test fired with a 1.5 powder load. Great info, thanks!
I had 3 questions: can the rifle be fixed, will it be fixed, and is it really worth being fixed. You answered all 3 by saying you would find a new stock to continue using it for testing.
On the bright side, at least it wasn't a pristine K98 this happened to. It's a Yugoslav reworked rifle, they inspected it, fixed any problems with it, scrubbed and remarked it, then put it back to work. They usually make for good shooters so you don't mess up a pristine German rifle (assuming you have one). I'd love to get one of these myself, but my slightly shorter action M48 is not a bad facsimile either.
Oh no the stock is cracked! I guess you should just throw it away since it's no good. I guess I'll take it off your hands.
Absolutely loving this series. Thank Ian.
That sound of firering...amazing
I bought some of this at a gun show a few years ago. For the first time in my life, I got a big bruise on my shoulder. Not to mention the split cases. I saved the split cases and was able to return it at the next gun show. I've since bought 2 900 round cases of M75 cartridges. I'd buy more if it was still available.
Thanks for the warning. I just discovered that I have a few of these bandoliers. I had no idea.
Bullets didn't explode not because of mauser
because gun Jesus blessed them before firing
I bought some Turkish Ammo for my K98 several years ago, but never got around to shooting it. Thanks to Ian, I am very glad I didn't. I think I will pull the bullets and dump the rest. Thanks for the information!
I love the well worn k98's . Thanks Gun Jeebus !
I've always had bad luck with Turkish ammo cracking cases. Won't touch it anymore.
Agreed
Yeah, Ditto !
4 out of 5 shots I would get split casing neaks
Had some too. It was disassembled and scrapped. The brass was getting brittle.
I shot some Portuguese surplus .303 once. I had in immediate succession, two hang fires, a split case, and another hang fire. They did make nice looking dummy rounds though.
I bought a spam can of this stuff in the mid 90's. Spent a long time sorting out the cases with cracked necks...where there were many!
This stuff! I bought a few bandoliers of this stuff years ago for my turkish straight bolt. Worked fine but lifting the bolt was a nightmare. Every.....damn....time.
Well, no one can ever question your personal courage, Ian. I sure wouldn't have had the stones to shoot any of that ammo. Not with it's reputation.
I bought one bandoleer of Turkish 8mm, dated 1947 many years ago. Shot it in a Yugo M-48A Mauser-style rifle. Decently accurate in the Hugo, but noticeably sharper and stouter recoil, than other 8mm ammo (Romanian, Yugoslavian/ Serbian). Know of a shooter whose Egyptian FN-49 was rendered unservicable by this ammo.
RIP Ian’s k98, its sacrifice will be remembered
Very interesting video, Ian! Would you consider making a video explaining why exactly improper storage of the ammunition causes the overpressure issues?
This was answered above in the comments, correctly I might add
That's a big ass projectile moving real fast.
Kinda like a 300 Winchester Magnum.
Moose, Elk, Bear...
I have some of this ammo, dated 1947. I can say it is exactly what Ian said. Very hot and problems with case neck cracks. I finally just use it for looks in a MG42 link belt. Won't ever shoot it again.
I did the same thing! Now I can say: "Look well young grasshopper. These cartridges have the mark of the great heathen horde on the back".
For better or for worse, I put at least 500 rounds of this through my Czech-made Turkish Mauser and nothing bad happened. Except a hefty kick in the shoulder every time.
aw that beautiful crack and rolling echo
Thanks for the heads up!
Wow. I've fired hundreds of rounds of this stuff and thought it felt stout, but never had much experience shooting much else.
Guess it wasn't just me. K98 held up great though!
I greatly appreciated the video. While I have 98 mausers, after watching the video I will not be shooting the Turkish ammo that I have in them. Just because it is a mauser does not make it safe to fire over pressure ammo. My ammo was loaded in the 50's, but overall externally looks just like what you were shooting. I think I will pull the bullets and reload with moderate charges of new powder. I will load for a velocity of 2500 fps. 30-06 commercial factory loads are supposed to drive 150 gr bullet in the 2900 fps range. Military GI for 150 grain barely makes 2700 fps. It is possible to make 30-06 into 8x57 and .308 will sort do the same, except the 8mm cartridge that results is not quite 57 mm long so I will only use the large stock of commercial 30-06 i have whenI get around to playing with my mausers.