Christian Nationalism: Heresy or Hype? - Justin Giboney & Michael Horton
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- In this live episode of Gospelbound from TGC’s 2021 national conference, Collin Hansen is joined by two esteemed guests who can help explain the origins and shape of Christian nationalism with a view toward the promises of the gospel. Michael Horton is the J. Gresham Machen professor of systematic theology and apologetics at Westminster Theological Seminary in California. Justin Giboney is cofounder of the AND Campaign, an attorney, and a political strategist in Atlanta.
Whether or not your church would advocate Christian nationalism, it’s become an apologetics challenge for church leaders with public perception. Mike and Justin help by answering a few questions and candidly discussing this topic.
I'm just glad to hear someone in the Church admit we have a problem with nationalism as Christians. I feel like I am drinking crazy juice having some of these convos with other believers lately.
Christians certainly can be faithful nationalists, just not hyphenated christain-nationslist, which is not nationalism proper. Again, that is where Horton has confused the issues, and where he obscured the problem.
@@budroe4057 you are incorrect. Even your "proper" nationalism places importance of one people group (Americans) over others (anyone else). Christians are supposed to bless all people, and God does not show preferentiality. If you're a Christian, there are more problems with nationalism than the likelihood its ideology will hijack importance over your life. Nationalism says to look at the world in opposition to everyone else.
@@middle_pickup define nationalism then...
Describe how it is different from Christian Nationalism. This is the point of the question to Dr. Horton. And, actually, Horton only mentions C.N. as the problem, not nationalism. And it's understood why - from his own words.
@@budroe4057 I would describe nationalism to mean sole devotion to one's own nation while giving no regard to other nations. Nationalism leaves no room for prosperity of collective nations. Taken to its conclusion, it breeds conflict. I have seen Christian nationalism take a few forms. Often it supplants American evangelicals as a sort of alternate chosen nation of Israel. Christian nationalism still carries the same idea as conventional nationalism. It's just wrapped into a evangelical packaging. To say it plainly, nationalism is a perversion of patriotism. Christian nationalism goes one step further to place that perversion of patriotism over a believer's commitment to Christ.
This is all wrong. The bible is clear. We might legally be Americans, but this world is not our home. We are citizens of the Kingdom of God. That's why christian nationalism is heretical. I thank God I got to live in the USA. Patriotism is fine and good. Nationalism is a step too far, and has no place in a Christian's life. Moreover, it is dangerous to our country.
@@middle_pickup, “Bless all people” does not mean a ruler should give benefits to others outside of his or her jurisdiction at the expense of the people he or she governs.
You guys, this was EXCELLENT.
I am so confused when I hear leaders tell me that (basically) if I don’t force my fellow citizens to obey the same religion I follow, God will smite us. I believe we live under Grace, and although we are responsible to shine and lead others to Christ, I don’t think we face judgment for the sins of others over whom we have no control.
Also I realized that I have been shown a romanticized view of our history in the US, and I do greatly admire the fact with which I was reminded that not all Americans think we were better off 200 years ago. 🙏🏼
Whao!!! I can't believe this TGC channel returns to delete comments regularly. Even intellectual, insightful and respectful comments from fellow Christians with an otherwise opinion. I came back just to read what other fellow Christians are thinking about this message and noticed some contrary but otherwise insightful comments have been deleted. That's a surprise to me. I will snap this comment and keep the picture for when this gets deleted. I think that we Christians ought to be mature enough to listen to one another. We are brothers in grace, we are not a cult. If this attitude continues, then I will have to publish this finding somewhere with the evidence of my snippets. Deleting respectful comments simply because they differ, rather than politely replying them when you can or hoping some other Christian does is definitely not a Godly move. Someone has to report this to Brother Tim Keller.
You will know them by their fruits. Those who hate the light are not of God.
Thank you brothers! Praying for you.
I'm nowhere near a Christian but I really enjoyed this talk!
We're so glad!
Straw men are the overwhelming victors in this ‘debate.’
I can’t believe I once supported TGC. Now I’m questioning my support for WHI. This is sad.
"The work of the Gospel is to make peace between men and God, and wherever a
heart surrenders to God the spirit of militarism and nationalism must go." {November 26, 1896, PT}
I remember how shocked I was years ago the first time I saw an American flag displayed in a Church. It seemed so blasphemous to me, an insult to God to suggest that he belongs to or is subservient to any nation or faction.
I don’t think self described Christian nationalists (like Wolfe) would agree with the definitions of it here. Barely a worthwhile discussion :/
I am a self described Christian Nationalist and I don't identify with the definition of Christian Nationalism that's being argued against here. Christian Nationalism is not about America. It's simple, Christian Nationalism on the most basic level is defined as a Christian who lives in a nation and who seeks their own good. There are many layers that could be stacked on top of that, this is the most basic definition.
"I don't know anyone who self-identifies as a Christian Nationalist"... yet, with confidence: "America is the last hope of Christianity... that's Christian Nationalism" ...then, "I think Nationalism is: America is special to God." ...someone should've brought a dictionary. "Christian Nationalism is a Christian heresy" ... well at least we got your take in the first 7 minutes :P This conference was so disappointing.
This is very needed and sadly accurate. I live in a state that’s red and claims Christianity and I see this mindset very often. Very very often. “God guns and trump” or trump flags flying or f**k Biden flags in front of their house. Then a small sect of the left who’s on the way other end that sounds almost pro abortion, gender dismissive, etc. there’s rarely a balance. I’ve also experienced a lot of racism in my hometown and even now. But the folks in my city are so accustomed to their culture that they can’t see their own bigotry or they don’t want to acknowledge it.
Preach ❤
What would a”balance” look like?
Great talk. Really enjoyed listening to this discussion. I’m an atheist military veteran and I agree with so much of what was said.
I believe that this place is worth working on and can be the greatest country on earth if everybody puts the work in for each other.
Wow, the gospel coalition really went woke. This is nothing but strawman argument. And misrepresentation..
This forum might have been much more interesting and beneficial with a bonafide, articulate, self-identified Christian Nationalist on the stage. Without that you have people who assume the perniciousness of Christian Nationalism, and define it on their own without ever looking a Christian Nationalist in the eye. It's very progressive presentation.
The freedom of conscience, that our forefathers enshrined in the various liberties of the First Amendment, was born in the Christian religion and rediscovered through the Reformation. How would these gentlemen preserve that freedom under a government that is hostile to Christianity? That is what we have, and that is what we are losing; and if we want to reverse the trend, it seems as though we would do well to restore some kind of Christian identity to American political life.
@@moreayf2319 If mixing Christianity with politics is like mixing oil and water, then Christians are the only people in society who will never have a basis for saying to the magistrate, "No, we're not going to do that."
"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion" - Treaty of Tripoli, Signed by President John Adams (you can look him up among the Founding Fathers).
@@modernpolymath You have a problem with Muslims kidnapping and enslaving Americans specifically because they are Christians (and accessible), and a Unitarian president says something like that in a treaty trying to make them stop? Unimaginable... and NOT dispositive.
I don't think anyone in the Christian Nationalist camps (or whatever you want to call it), would make a lot of those claims. There is a big difference between the Trump nationalist, who might be Christian but is more of a personality cult and historical Christianity. Historical Christianity has always affected the state in some way, and that's a good thing. We don't need to elevate the US to the status of Israel, but what do you do when your leaders are Christians? Do we let ourselves think as Christians in the public sphere or must we deny Christ in government?
Very helpful conversation, the subject matter was handled truthfully with compassion and grace. We should be on our knees to pray for the Lord to keep us from deception on either sides of political spectrum, and with our feet fitted with readiness of the gospel to walk closely by the Spirit, confronting those errors within and without for the glory of God and the honor of our Lord Jesus Christ. Keep up the good work @TGC.
"Very helpful conversation, the subject matter was handled truthfully with compassion and grace."
No quote could be farther from the truth.
Excellent back and forth between three rational christians. As a secular person witnessing what's going on in this country and how quickly things are devolving it is good to see that a Viewpoint free of bias of any sort in regards to religion still exists. You have presented honesty in your subject matter without the agenda of acquiring power, which is how most people outside of the church now see the church. At this time, more than ever The church just appears to be another body of people seeking power over other people.
But we (the church), specifically conservative Christian churches generally speaking aren’t trying to seek power. We are only trying to stand for/maintain positions within American culture that reflect God’s Word - that have been a huge part of the culture for a long time, and that serve to build up individuals, families, and communities versus tear them down.
@@CriticalThinker02 Christian dominionists seek power. Please recognize there are lots of groups that try to get figures in all areas of government and institutions to force Christian theology and laws to people. This is a definite real threat, especially when there are already congress people who identify as Christian nationalists and advocate for a theocracy.
@@CriticalThinker02 But you ARE seeking power. The power to define and control communities, families, and individuals based on your belief. The control of culture itself. That's power. Just be honest.
@@Cybelos I am being honest. I think you’re confusing influence & persuasion with power. Christians aren’t seeking power to define or control anyone. How is it a power issue to communicate to the culture that we believe objective truths exist? We’re not forcing anyone to do anything. How are we trying to define something by simply maintaining definitions that have existed since forever? What power are we seeking when we take a defensive posture to those who ARE seeking power to redefine and influence the culture based on their own personal, fleeting, moral relativist beliefs?
@@CriticalThinker02 Your statement is loaded with assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First of all, you are seeking to control other people. Your opposition to a woman's right to choose, and to gay marriage, are two obvious areas. Christian definitions of things haven't existed forever, since Christianity hasn't existed forever. To the extent that forever means "a long time," where that's true it's due to force and indoctrination. You don't believe in objective truth. You believe in subjective opinions written by men and call them objective. There's nothing objective about fairy tale stories in old books. That's why you rely on faith, which is inherently subjective. There's nothing "fleeting" about phenomena which keeps popping up across time and space, and which Christians have to keep suppressing. Your beliefs are no more objective than anyone else's. Just because they originated outside your head and come from someone else doesn't mean they're objective. They're just someone else's personal opinions.
Definitions are dreadful things: "They do the two things that most men, especially comfortable men, cannot endure. They fight; and they fight fair." Chesterton.
I thought our kingdom is not of this World why are they trying to make America our kingdom Can't wait for Christ to come back ps anarchy
America is the harlot and Babylon the "great" "make America great again"
I'm glad these men are clarifying the issues and distinguishing the differences between biblical theology and political ideology - I love the description that are churches are becoming "Fox" churches or "CNN" churches 😄
Jesus is our King. His marching order was go and make disciples of all nations teaching them everything He had taught them. 2000 years later we see the world without God wanting no part of God and wanting to do what is right in their eyes. Church we live in a Kingdom whose King is not red or blue. We don’t look to those parties to give us special perks and benefits. Heavenly Father open our eyes and give us discernment. The World may be in chaos but we don’t live there. Peace be still …. You are with us.
When will we get back to The Gospel and unity?? If and when we drive the old covenant mentality out of The Church so that we can recognize The New Covenant Reality. You can never truly understand Gods Grace (Jesus) as long as you hang onto the self-righteous attitude so prominent in the body Of Christ. Hasn't happened yet, not sure it ever will, too many Churches hang onto their legalistic teachings missing the freedom that comes In Christ. Specifically, the freedom to love!!!
Finally we see what Collin looks like! Great conversation again TGC, keep it up.
Also I’m glad they’re acknowledging the good and the bad. In order to do better we have to confess our nations sins
That’s correct each person must confess their own sins. We are not commanded to confess the sins of unbelievers. Not all who say Lord Lord belong to Him. This nation does not have a covenant with God only believers do. So no I’m not responsible for the sins of people from 600 years ago. There were no slave owners in my family tree. There were mixed Native American and African. We are not waiting for government or others to give us anything. Our God has supplied our needs and to Him we give praise and thanks.
I can not tell you in words how much I enjoyed this conversation it renewed my hope and I thank you for that.
As Gandhi may or may not have said: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Michael Horton has drifted from his days with C.U.R.E. (Christians United for Reformation). The more I listen to Collin Hansen, the more I realize how theologically and politically he is in bed with Tim Keller. I read his biography about Keller, and I found the comment about Keller being a racist so awkwardly inserted in the biography. Forced, if you will. Maybe those at TGC should look in the mirror at their blind spots (i.e., planks) before alienating the rest of their brothers and sisters in Christ.
He really has. He is a ThD and systematic theology author. The singling out a mob consisting of a particular religion and race as the single application of Romans 2:18 was totally irresponsible. He KNOWS better than this.
Fun fact. The And Campaign has all it's chapters in blue hell holes where no one goes to church or believes in the Bible.
Luke 17:20 “One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, ‘When will the Kingdom of God come?’ Jesus replied, ‘The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs. 21
You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’, for the Kingdom of God is within you.’ ”
And it's only gotten more extreme.
Personally done with religion for more fundamental reasons than politics, but this is refreshing to hear.
Wish you the best controlling the extremists among you blowing stuff up, like the constitution.
1. Nationalism is not patriotism. 2. Patriotism is good, nationalism is bad. 3. Nationalism is the 19th century belief that every nation has a single culture, language, and race. 4. No nation has ever reached nationalist ideals, though some have tried to great horror. 5. Christianity has been multi-national, or something like it, because Christ leads a universal church that involves all people on the God created earth. 6. Nationalism is anti-Christian, while patriotism is often Christian. 7. Our nation needs Christ but Christianity doesn't need any given nation.
If it helps I once told a man in my church that I do not bring my political views into church, but I do bring my religious views into the voting booth.
Jesus our King, lived by example, and his methods are described coherently in the gospel from four different perspectives. While his marching orders was go make disciples of all nations, these orders implicitly include his methods. He was kind, merciful and gracious. Our God did not take up a sword neither did he enact national constitutions.
I listened to several talks on this subject from Robert .P. Jones, David Franch, Amanda Tylor and others from a sociological and politically conservative and Christian perspective but failed to hear a coherent definition Distinguishing nationalism, Christian nationalism, and white evangelical nationalism. David Franch calls this ideology “ a political New Right.” This ideology is a subset of the existing political and biblical narratives born, bred and shaped in the in the political culture without an actual organized system or structure.
Thank you for this thought provoking discussion. I look forward to the day when we stop labeling one another as Evangelical, Pentecostal, Charismatic, Protestant, Catholic, Baptist, Nationalist or whatever. Why can’t we just be Christians? I tell people “I follow Jesus Christ” when they ask because there’s so much confusion among Christians.
In clown world, where the heathen don't know and cannot understand what makes a Baptist different from a Presbyterian or Lutheran, it probably makes more sense to just call yourself a Christian. But when I hear someone describe themselves as a "Christ-follower," I half expect the next thing they say to be something that affirms homosexuality or abortion. The labels aren't important in themselves, but I don't want someone who knows I'm a Christian to get me confused with those so-called "Christians" who think God is unable to communicate with us, giving them the liberty to develop their own moral compasses. That's where clown world came from in the first place.
By the way, if you're not in the make-up-your-own-morality branch of Christianity, you are and will eventually be condemned utterly for being a Christian Nationalist.
I listened to several talks on this subject from Robert .P. Jones, David Franch, Amanda Tylor and others from a sociological and politically conservative and Christian perspective but failed to hear a coherent definition Distinguishing nationalism, Christian nationalism, and white evangelical nationalism. David Franch calls this ideology “ a political New Right.” This ideology is a subset of the existing political and biblical narratives born, bred and shaped in the in the political culture without an actual organized system or structure. So, defining and locating it in the social, political, religious culture and narratives will clarify it.
jESUS should define your politics......... Your politics should never define Jesus..........
To anyone reading the comments. Christian Nationalism IS the book "To My Legionaries" by Corneliu Codreanu. Read it! It is not the Westminster Confession of Faith. Its as simple as that.
I don’t believe God ever intended for ppl to be forced to be a believer in Jesus Christ. We all hope everyone gets saved by sharing our testimonies but after sharing Jesus Christ with ppl we should just turn it over to God and let ppl decide on their own. We should respect one another’s religious or non religious beliefs and love one another as Jesus Christ loves us.
We have too be careful not to offer the country or world Christian principles. We're to preach the gospel. Also we are instructed to be cooperative with the government we live in as long as it doesn't breech God's word. We're to be good citizens.
I do remember when to be patriotic and an ethical citizen made one a Christian. Let's not go back to that. People need Christ, not Christian influence
You're clearly reading a different bible. Please read the great commission out-loud and ask yourself whether Christ is intent on converting the nations and bringing them under His moral rule and reign.
Problem problem blah blah “especially on the right “ problem problem.
Our U.S. Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, so you can worship or not worship any god you choose. But Our Constitution also honors God and proclaims Jesus as "our Lord" Article VII, and we are a Christian Nation.
I must have been sleeping. I don’t recall Followers of Christ referring to other believers as WHITE Evangelical or Black Evangelical . Who has snuck in the back door creating this division. I expect to see this kind of talk in the world and media reports that way 24/7 when reporting the news. It’s heart breaking
Yah, this flopper makes it racist.
I think it just identifying people within the culture of Christianity that make up these political ideologies
Acknowledging a condition does not cause the condition. But NOT acknowledging it definitely makes it worse.
Warning to the wise. This conversation was filled with strawman and ad hominem attacks. It failed to define Christian Nationalism or faithfully represent it. It conflated American Exceptionalism and Christian Nationalism throughout. It also conflated patently un-christian ideas with Christian Nationalism. It was sub-academic, anti-historical, dishonest, unfocused, and boring. If your just starting to listen save yourself 46 minutes and don't bother, unless you're looking for evidence that TGC has seen better years then this should suit wonderfully.
What a double standard! Just let you guys know, I pay attention not only to the event you commented, but also pay MORE attention on the similar events you didn't comment, and think about WHY.
Bingo!
I found this a fair balanced approach on the subject.
Would have been useful to hear from a Christian Nationalist. App 3 are leftists.
Hebrews 4
King James Version
4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Romans 3:31 - Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Romans 14:5 - One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Mark 16:1 - And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Leviticus 23:3 - Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
Acts 1:12 - Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
Matthew 11:28-30 - Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (Read More...)
Jonah was against it too but then God allowed him to suffer until he was ready to command Nineveh to repent. If your against calling our nation to repent then you can call us names all you want buy Jesus is already ruling the US and every nation. Even those who reject him. All the nations will be put under his feet
Yikes. No balance whatsoever.
Somewhat helpful conversation but also had concerns with some of the framing of the comments by the speakers.
You're correct. It was a real disappointment.
A lot of Strew-man being set up for sure
We only have 2 choices Christian Nationalism vs Secular Nationalism. Which of these two is more likely to accept “pro-choice”, pornography? To what I see here, is Michael Horton like the Crusaders are perverting the historical Reform view of Christian Nationalism (Theonomy), God has command us
Matthew 28:19-20: “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to OBEY everything that I have commanded you.
Our Commandment is to make Christian Nations, not to keep the Nations pagan or Secular. Not just America, All Nations
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Romans 10:8-10 ESV
How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” Romans 10:14-15 ESV
This means people don't become Christians by having a gun ti their head. The scripture you quoted from Matthew means we witness and preach to others about the Kingdom of God. Jesus said His Kingdom is NOT of this world.
@@buffaloniceguy7823 Can you show me in the Old Testament that God forced people to become converts by putting a gun to their heads? You are pitting The Old Testament against New Testament. I’m not talking about becoming converts, I’m talking about Gods law being applied to converts and none Converts for the purpose of a better society you saying that Secularism is better than Gods law? It seems to me that you are saying that man made Laws are better for the society than Gods own breathed Moral Laws, is that what you are saying? Jesus did say his Kingdom is not of this world, what you have missed is that Jesus said his Kingdom is not man made kingdom, Jesus did not deny his Lordship over all his creation. He is King of Kings.... who do you think the plurality of kings is being mentioned? The kings of this world, Who is the King (singular) being mentioned? The King Jesus Christ, he is King here and his Kingdom is not man made of this world, and his Kingdom is here.
Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
Notice, John said The Kingdom of heaven is at hand, he did not say Gods Kingdom is far in another dimension. It’s here on earth, at hand and it has authority over all the man made kingdoms.
Teach them to OBEY! Matthew 28
Love this...thank you❗❗❗
Sorry Colin, with all due respect your definition of Christian Nationalism is a straw man. The center of the movement/idea is not that America is the last hope of Christianity. That's a form of American Exceptionalism not Christian Nationalism.
Whole lot of gaslighting in this..
Why do catholic seem to prefer catholic that are big sinners over those who are not? Does it have to do with having your soul dry cleaned more often and very little real effort put into not sinning? Public confessions would work better. How many private confession are even of real events?
39:10 "Our churches right now look like FOX & CNN". That statement is SO true!
How does it look like CNN?
There's no way the Church. Which are just individuals can look like either, to be honest. But there are a lot of evangelicals who are just like the people who own slaves and claimed to be Christians. And Fox news and right-wing media caters to them.
@MALLYGEEZ1 Many churches are too political! Our nation is the Kingdom of God, our constitution is the Bible, and our king is Jesus Christ! Preach the gospel and stop worrying about politics.
@buffaloniceguy7823
All politics are rules that legislate morality. So I couldn't disagree more. I don't see anywhere in the Bible where God Says only preach the Gospel. And once again, the Church can't sound like a news outlet. Because the church are just the individuals who claim to follow God.
@MALLYGEEZ1 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1 Corinthians 2:2 KJV
No one is teaching this. This is a cartoon
I say it is no to nationalism it is not from the Bible
neo-Liberation Theology
Be Adam's kin or God's. Snakes talk to snakes
Trying to follow the middle only leads to the spiting out if his mouth. Christ is King or not. Can't have it both ways.
Bible syztes be aware of sheep in wolves clothing this is nationalism
I think you slandered a lot of believers who think God wants the rain to fall on the just and the unjust and some of that rain should include Christian morality. You can't ignore politics and claim to love your neighbor. That's what I see when I hear evangellyfish cry about people living in the world where they can actually love some neighbors and share the gospel.
Your metaphors sound weirdly rapey. Just leave your neighbors alone and stop trying to push your fantasies and fairy tales on everyone else 🙂
Totally agree. Perhaps I'm just not a member of the "wrong" congregation/denomination but I know no brother or sister in Christ who is against inter-racial marriage. And to say that anyone who has anything negative to say about the "open borders" policy we see being exercised in our nation is a racist is offensive to one who loves people of all races. I must say there was a lot of conflating that went on in this conference.
Dr. Horton fails to directly respond to the question of whether nationalism itself is a threat to Cristianity or the gospel mission. Instead, he redefines the question and/or definition, while refusing to address nationalism properly defined and understood. I was quite disappointed in this "dodge" by him.
Really poor in terms of advancing the discussion. Likely, it is because he may not appreciate nationalism properly defined and understood. He did this twice in less than five minutes at the very opening. Not good.
Look at m
Hype
How winsome :P ,y'all are a hot mess. May God raise up His Church, and advance His Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Here it is. The dumbest conversation on the internet.
GW He did question slavery
Some have said to me that God is not into Christian Nationalism and Christian Nationalism is a myth!..but I call them a liar because >>>
God is the greatest Nationalist there is !!
Genesis 12:2
And I will make of thee a GREAT NATION, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
1 Peter 2:9
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Genesis 17:4-6
“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you,
And you will be the father of a multitude of NATIONS.
“No longer shall your name be called Abram,
But your name shall be Abraham;
For I have made you the FATHER of a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS.
I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make NATIONS of you, and KINGS will come forth from you.
Nation=people=race
Nations=multitude of different races
All these guys are liars
What baffles me about all this nationalisms is your total ignorance about us first nations, us who have been here long before you all came to our shores, I understand your concerns are sincere and all but where do we fit in , in this debacle, your constitution even declares us as savages,,,the way I see all this is no matter where you all stand, we're living by your racist constitution, we are thrown to the side and we don't matter in all your concerns!
Repent Michael. Repent. If you don’t, may your tongue be silent for a time.
Slandering your brothers and sisters
It would be helpful to know the arguments you disagree with and the evidence you have to support your disagreement.
Praying that God will bless you and your family.
Why is this John Wayne Gacy dude on stage? Giving me serial killer vibes. Get him off or else get a haircut 😂
At least fentanyl Floyd gets a mention
I brought my black grandson to a white church, big mistake.
It wasn't the true church, then.
@@bobtaylor170 Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Racialism has entered the chat.
@@theschmidy I love my grandson.
@@jamessheffield4173 I'm glad. Just not sure what that has to do with Christian Nationalism...
I am not a religious person but I did grow up in a religious community. What is happening now is down right fashicium.
How about live and let live.
Who are Christians going to kill first.