Hey BJC thanks for giving your thoughts on this one too, you're right too I am deff an F-35 fan boy especially since Canada seems to have selected them going forward, Thanks again man, great video as usual 👍
Talking about high off bore sight missiles he should do one on the vid you did with Longshot using the Israeli Python. Btw, I love your videos. I don't play DCS but I do have an interest in air combat and I've learned so much about it watching your videos. They really do help people understand what fighters actually do and how the tactics work. There's so many uneducated people on the internet that have an awful lot to say about controversial subjects like the F-35 and stealth but know so little about it and your videos at least give people the idea of how things really work in the real world and why stealth and 5th gen fighters are so necessary
It's important to note that both the F-22 and F-35 are community mods in DCS, so not all systems are modeled or modeled accurately for either aircraft. This is good for entertainment value, though.
@@roninjedi2494 the f35 regularly outperforms combat loaded F16s, it's instantaneous AOA is very impressive as well as having the most powerful engine ever developed
What I like about you is that even though you're immortal (I have a very high regard to all pilots), you treat us mortals as your equal. Unlike other pilot channels out there. You never brag, you never think highly of yourself, and for that, you got yourself another sub.
Yep, enroute atc here. I absolutely fan boy out when I talk to military pilots. Especially fighters and B2's which I talk to often. You can definitely tell some are a little rigid and monotone on the radio with very proper, by the book, phraseology. And some are really laid back, aren't afraid to use plain language or use pleasantries, but still very respectful. Which is generally nice from any pilot.
It’s probably because just cause you find it interesting to ask and learn more, doesn’t mean the other pilots will. The pilot culture isn’t for every pilot
8:52 - Growling Sidewinder can over-G the F-22 because he flies with the G-limiter off. That's why he was able to do a flat spin with it in your previous video. It is important to point out that both of these planes are unofficial mods so their flight models can be whatever and their damage models are lacking compared to the officially released modules by ED.
no its a limitation of the mod lol all mods are easily over-G'd like that its true with the su30 the su35 F-22 its all the same. Its an SFM thing. also the way the F-22 mod is built you literally cannot dogfight with it unless you turn off the FCS systems (another limitation of being a DCS mod)
There is no g limiter “off mode” in the raptor. The aircraft changes its command mode thru the flight envelope. Simple explanation is that It is either g commanded or pitch commanded based on several factors. The change occurs at an approx approximate airspeed which the pilot has a general Number memorized (changes slightly). So a hard stop pull could either command max g or max pitch. And yes you can over G an f-22. Asymmetrically or symmetrically. Common for new guys in AK to do a hard stop pull on takeoff at 500 knots at the end of the runway (cold day) and go right to a symmetric over G. Function of low altitude, CG, and gross weight.
I'd love to see you and Growling Sidewinder fly together in DCS one of these days. He also did a few interview videos with real pilot and former Tomcat RIO in the past for his audience. I'd love to see you guys have an official collaboration video in the future
Here's a challenge for you. I was stationed as an enlisted Jet Engine Mechanic with the 49th Fighter Interceptor Squadron at Griffiss AFB, NY from April of 1977 to February of 1979. The late Col, (then Lt Col) James K. Lowe was my commander. Hearing this from three or more sources, it was rumored that Jim Lowe was the only F-106 pilot that could best an F-15 on the various ACMI ranges in the country. Definitely a Korean War, and possibly WWII, veteran he could do things with that aircraft and his body that no one else could. He was also legendary for being being able to drink anyone under the table. He's been somewhat of a hero to me for most of my life. It would be great to find out if those things about him were true.
What I understand is, that the problem with the AIM-9 Sidewinder (any), that it has to have airflow, when it is activated - not that it would not fit in the weapon bay of the F-35. That’s why the Raptor has specially designed weapon bays for the Sidewinder - but the F-35 doesn’t. Hence it has to carry the sidewinder on the wing tips. What I didn’t knew though is the special Block II configuration of the AIM-9X. Thanks for the info.
I was on Miramar airforce base building a cell tower when they got a fleet of f22's we where located pretty close to there training area and got to see 12 different dogfight training runs. I'm not sure what they where flying against but the f22 was eating everything alive. That's was the coolest month of work in my life. It's such an impressive plane truly jaw dropping!
Complete nonsense. Why would you make this up? MCAS Miramar is a MARINE base, not a USAF base. They don't have F-22s there at all. Miramar is also in San Diego, and the closest training area is 35nm offshore, or 110nm to the East near NAF El Centro. You wouldn't be able to see anything in either location.
@@dougcronkhite2113 El Centro range isn't even big enough for Air to Air. Have to go to R-2301W near Yuma or W291 out over the Pacific. Definitely no air to air viewing location if you are working at Miramar. This guy's story is BS.
2 года назад+7
One thing that people seem to forget is that the F-22, the F-35 and even the F-15, 16 and 18 are meant to fight together. Can you imagine thinking that you have the drop on an F-35 and then all of the sudden you have a missile on you from you don't know where? Pucker factor to the max!...
As an old F-4 pilot I can tell you the maneuverability of the F-22 will always win the day. It must be realized that the 90-degree angle offset that the AIM_9 can be fired is the limit and not the optimum angle. The growlers are great simple missiles but do have their weaknesses as we found in Vietnam. I know they are better now but heat is not as precise as a radar lock on.
@@TechnoMinarchist, I do not know what the F 22 has for radar since there have been some upgrades so I cannot say but I don't think there is much difference between the two. I believe that the RCS of the F 22 is smaller than the F 35 so that will make a difference at extreme ranges.
The "over g" warning is from the f15c module in dcs which the f22 module uses as a framework. Because the F22 is still so classified, the dcs module isnt super realistic like the other modules. Also in real world I wonder if the IRST would give the F35 a better chance at low bvr ranges, thoughts ??
@@mrstring4592 yes for sure and i think the F35 tufns better that what we see in the DCS model. Ivd herd she can hang with the viper which ( if true) is crazy cuz ive seen one up close and they are definatly beefy.
I spent 24 years in the AF as avionics tech. After I retired I worked for LM. I was at Eglin and taught the AF, Marines, and Navy how to maintain the F-35A,B,C. The F-35 doesn't do close in dog fights. Prior to entering the TOT they do a contrail check. If you visually see a F-35 that pilot made a mistake. They see you well beyond visual range and steer around the threat. The Navy's Top Gun school at Fallen NAS requires graduates to purposely go up against Gen V fighters like the F-22 or the F-35. No F-18 has ever shot down either a F-22 or F-35 in this simulation. The F-35 avionics initially were superior to the F-22 however the F-22 is now getting upgraded. My point is in regards to the F-35 in combat you will never see it if the pilot is executing the mission as he was trained.
F35 is a smart phone with wings. It has the best cameras, radar, and sensors, the best electronic counter measures built in, and has adequate stealth from it's shape and coating to be resistant to radar guided weapons. It caries a decent number of weapons for most sortees, including nuclear weapons and 2000lb bombs internally. It also is flexible enough that it could perform any other role well enough. Any time you ask "can the F35 be used for [insert mission]" the answer is always yes. @@Mysteryboy0007
I think Growling Sidewinder, in what he calls "dogfights", usually begins all of them like that, with a very close 'merge', as he says. He does BVR matches sometimes too, which might actually be more appropriate for F-35 vs F-22. From my untrained eye, he seems like an excellent pilot, but perhaps you could comment. He's exceptionally good with the F-16C, but he seems to have a very good mind for aerial maneuvers in general, and how to counter them. I personally, as you probably already guessed, would like to see a 2 v 2 match, with an F-35 and a Rafale on one side, and a J-20 and a J-10 on the other (though I'm not entirely sure if the Rafale is available in DCS), or perhaps a J-20 and a J-31 on the other side, or a J-31 and a J-10. I suspect the Rafale and F-35 match-up could beat them all, and could even outperform an F-35 and F/A-18 team. Just bear in mind that things like the F-35's datalink, its radar, its DAS, it's extremely likely that all of that is considerably better, in real life, than it is currently being modeled by DCS, partly because they don't model some of those things, because they don't really know how they work, so they just omit them. For example, they don't model AESA radars in DCS, but rather, they just give it a very powerful non-AESA radar, to simulate an AESA radar, which I imagine is not exactly the same. And things like decoys. US decoys are generally modeled as no better or worse than Russian or Chinese decoys, even though they may actually be considerably better. So just bear that in mind as you watch these. You might consider offering Growling Sidewinder and Grim Reapers suggestions for how to more realistically set up these kinds of engagements, to make it more like what we might do in training (unclassified information only, of course), and more like what they might see in combat, either in a US, UK or Japan force, perhaps carrier based, or perhaps sometimes based on land, versus either a Chinese or a Russian force. It may be that they conduct the missions like that in part because it starts it off in a way that's interesting for the viewers, but it may also be because they never had a Thunderbirds instructor available to offer them some new ideas before... Excellent video. Thank you again. If a sonic boom nudges your golf ball into the hole, that still counts, right?
Love to hear you point out the difference between an off bore missile like the 9X. Read about an exercise in England called meatball-14 where a Gripen test this out against two Eurofighters. An easy pick for the Eurofighter one might think. Gripen had the HMD and IRIS-T. The merge lasted 9sek. with the Gripen still flying. Yep, I don’t think they would waste flying the F-35 without the 9X, and the outcome would’ve been different.
Should do a vid of GS's fight with Ate in the Mirage. Ate's an ex-Rafale driver so would be nice to hear an actual Viper/Eagle driver's comments on how GS's moves or what you would do against a delta wing. There are 3 vids GS made with Ate if I recall, so plenty to cover :D
It'd be cool to also see your reaction to some of Growling Sidewinders dog fights where it's evenly matched 4th gen fighters. I feel like those videos would give you a lot to comment on because they're more of a knife fight.
Max, I am a retired TACP I had an A1C who was an incredible golfer I would be in the office and one, two and three star generals would be calling asking him to be on their team crazy how golf is with the AF.
I'm super stoked that the RCAF has purchased the F-35 A. I would love to see one at an airshow in he next couple of years when they finally get delivered!
Please do a dog fight rundown between The Locheed Martin F-22 Raptor vs The Eurofighter Typhoon. America 🇺🇸 vs 🇪🇺 Europe. This will be extremely interesting.
My understanding is the F-35 here is carrying "a" AIM-9X, and it does have HOBS capability. It may be a neutered version from what you say. The way they model it in DCS (judging from the GS and similar videos I've seen), the farther off boresight you go, the longer it takes to lock on. So they have had shots at targets at 80-90 degrees, but it never just starts growling the second they put the reticle on target, it takes a period of time to lock. Sounds like its different from the real thing? Re the F22 G-limit warnings - my understanding is F22 model has the function of being able to override the flight control computer and/or an ability to turn the G-limiter off, and that is how the aircraft is over-g-ing. Certainly that is the case for the DCS F-18 model. You often hear over-G warnings when guy is flying an F-15. DCS allows a lot of it before it damages the airframe. Maybe that's unrealistic.
That scene you painted was just beautiful, F-22 and F-35 ruling the skies -but it was never in the Air Forces playbook. They wanted to scrap the F-22 to get even more F-35s. Ditto the A-10, Super Hornet, and who knows what else. An entire force of relatively slow, fragile, short-ranged planes with limited maneuverability to fill the roles of air superiority, recon, tactical bomber, ground support, and interceptor for ALL the services. Unfortunately, they found out that it costs a lot more to operate than they thought. so they ordered more Falcons, and Hornets, and are considering a new version of Eagle. F-35 does not suck, and it has its place, even better than any other platform for certain missions. But it can not be everything.
I love this video! I'm just starting to explore your content, but I've been a Growling Sidewinder fan for a while. I'm thrilled to see you review his videos, and I would freak out to see you dogfight or form up in a wing together and annihilate some hostiles.
Lockheed needs to concentrate on making these jets glider friendly in case of jet failure. Those cockpit side wings may be one idea to assist thus idea
My understanding without watching anything is that the F-22 while older is built from the ground up for pure air superiority, while the f-35 trades some of that to be able to perform other roles.
Correct. The F-35 is not meant to be a dogfighter or air superiority fighter. It's meant to be stealth fighter plane used to attack ground targets (like tanks, armored vehicles, buildings, etc) . The F-35 entirely relies on its stealth to avoid getting detected by enemies. The F-22 fighter is purely meant to kill other fighters with no compromises. If you want to kill another fighter jet, then use an F-22.
I do think bigger calibers hit harder though. A 25mm round simply has more HEI compound than a 20mm round. It is gonna shred the target worse. In WWII the Germans estimated it took 17 hits of 20mm and just 4 of 30mm on average to take down a medium bomber. Meanwhile 30mm very often shattered fighters while 20mm didn't reliably do so in 1 hit. Closer to 4 or 5. Now, sure, any plane which has ever flown *could* probably be taken down by a single round of rifle caliber machine gun with precise enough targeting. Shot placement matters. But the kill zone for a 30mm is a much larger section of the aircraft.
So being our most modern jets in the sky that are admitted to exist at least, I wonder exactly how maneuverable they would be if they used some exotic technology to mitigate g forces like the weird fluid breathing concepts or some weird electromagnetic mechanism?
Air defense capabilities should mean that bombs and missiles need to be stealthily not just the ac that deploys them because modern radars and engagement system computers likely can intercept a bomb or missile in the air before reaching the target. I could be wrong but I don’t know if any bombs currently have stealth features even though a2a and a2g missiles more and more are stealthy. I’ve heard a rumor though that even in the 90s the F-117 deployed to combat with LGBs like gbu-27 that were given lightweight ram, but not officially known as training shape LGBs have no special ram or ras features just iron bombs and metalic paveway kits,
Now imagine if they didn’t drop the f-22 program and added hmd to the raptor. The f-35… hell, almost any fighter would be in pieces within seconds of passing that thing
@9:09 that is unfortunately an issue of the DCS world. F-22 is actually a community made mod that uses all avionic code from official F-15 module. so that is why the HUD and MFD symbology looks so similar. (Some F-22 enthusiasts that know how to code, took the F-15 official module and modified it to match the flight characteristics of F-22 A on paper) Can't wait until we get an official module for the F-22.
F-35 vs. F-22 definitely comes down to engagement zone, and that's been played out in the real. Assuming similar combat skills, BVR, the combat suite's going to win. Close into a dogfight, the better machine wins. Also, of course all our AFBs have golf courses. It's all the room we saved from needless gun ranges.
Please look up the vid of the concept killswitch, Northrup Grumman, possibly skunk works. What are your thoughts on that, because it looks like a real contender
Okay so I've recently seen some newer videos of fat Amy maneuvering. In DCS it's much more sluggish than the actual aircraft is. It needs a update In game. I'm not saying that it'll outmaneuver the F-22 but it's surprisingly improved.
At MCAS Miramar this past weekend I spoke to a Louisiana ANG pilot flying the F-15C for a bit. He mentioned going up against the F-35, and said it wasn't really even a challenge to beat it in BFM. The F-35 just isn't built for that kind of engagement. In its correct employment, the F-35 was unbeatable, but once they got to BFM, the F-35 died in less than a full turn in either 1 or 2 circle fights.
Wanted to ask, if you were going through Air Force training again, and you could choose any aircraft to start in, what would it be? Or we it stay as the f15e strike eagle? Another thing is that these are dcs mods, so they don’t actually emulate the real life physics and performance of either aircraft. Additionally the f22 uses a standard flight model, meaning that it’s performance is unrealistic, while the f35 mod uses the f15c flight model, with a lower radar signature, but they sure do well in bvr
@@MaxAfterburnerusa not F22? Just curious as to why the f35 over f22! Sorry just a fanboy of that beautiful thrust vectoring jet😂 love the channel and thank you for your service!
@@EBMisKing the F-35 is more advanced it has an HMD and it should be capable of winning the dogfight if it was in real life with the off-boresight launch the F-22 they are working on a significant package to upgrade it but it was designed in the 90’s
Sadly, we never made enough F22s for them to work in conjunction with F35. However, we've been assured that the abilities of F22 are obsolete and will never be needed and the F35 does everything fine.
Watch any 2019 thru the present flight demo of the F-35 that is flown by the actual USAF F-35 Demo Team. You will see the full Block 3F, 9G rated F-35 as it is flown in service. You will see Raptor- worthy instantaneous direction reversals (the Dojo Drift is sick; looks like some weird UFO shit). There is a controlled 'helicopter' flat spin, a demonstration of slow, controlled _insane AoA_ flight with 50° AoA maintained. Depending on who flies the demo, you may see the F-35 come out of the flat spin into a knife edge, literally hanging in the sky, after which it accelerates away _in a climb!_ Something I noticed about the F-35 is it's ability to literally fly nonstop in departure mode yet maintain controlled flight, with the acceleration out of High Alpha recovery being absolutely nuts. If an F-35 exhibits nose slice or drop coming out of AoA, it's because the pilot wanted it so; this thing does not hardly ever need to nose drop to regain airspeed because the thrust to weight is ludicrous. It always blows me away that people still think this jet is clumsy. It's probably the most agile jet without TVC that ever took to the skies. Damn thing flies a lot like the Raptor. Also.....the F-35 in DCS is super deeply NERF'd to hell. It has none of the performance the real jet has.
I do think, that the F-35 in DCS is grossly misrepresented. a) it has no DAS (it is just classic HUD, what the F-35 doesn’t even have). b) it seems, that it doesn’t fly as the latest combat ready F-35’s fly! Because the augmented flight control system, can do things, which you normally can only see on thrust vectoring jets (e.g. impossible high AoA). So yes - the Raptor is unbelievable good in dogfights (which is not really helping in real life situations). However the F-35 is probably the jet which comes the closest...
A lot of people forget, the f35 also replaces an awacs in a fight, and any f35 in the flight can assume that roll. The Avionics in the F35 is what makes it special.
‘Gripen first participated in Red Flag 2006 with the Gripen A,’ says Stefan Englund , former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer on Quora. ‘It was assigned to the red team. Reduced AWACS, reduced ground support. The Gripens connected their link systems and acted themselves as AWACs, got the battlefield awareness necessary and avoided all ground defence, scored 10 kills the first day including a Typhoon. No losses they remained undetected. One Gripen pilot knocked down five F-16 block 50+ during close air combat in Red Flag Alaska. And the Gripens never lost any aerial encounter or failed their mission objectives. It was the only fighter that performed all planed starts, while others were sitting on the ground waiting for the weather to clear up. The evaluation was that Gripen capacity needed to be revaluated.
Surprised you said at the end the F35 & F22 make a good combo.....would've thought an F15E or EX with F22 top cover would make a better combo for ground pound work
Forgetting the dogfight scenario, which plane would detect the other first? If it's the F-35, would that be enough of an advantage to tip the odds in its favor?
No, the F35 is not supposed to be fighting alongside the F22. The partner nations would not have joined if the F35 was not also an air superiority fighter. Remember, only the US has the F22, and most air forces only has one fighter.
It was over g-ing because growling flies it with the fcs over ride on.. so the computer has no control over AOA. But it will still yell at you lol good video buddy once again 👍
I’ll always remember while floating in the Dead Sea watching the Israeli Air Force dog fighting with real missiles chasing them, thinking even if they have no explosives if they hit you you’re going down. And the pilots were pulling major Gs to keep away from them. I’m impressed!
Not an expert, but in my opinion, the F-35 is more advanced but in a one-on-one air to air, the F-22 is probably superior. But if I had to be a combat pilot in either, I'd choose the F-35. It's probably a match for any fighter that isn't the F-22.
The BVR ability of the F35( its strong point) is nerfed in DCS,They may update it soon given the good reception the updated F16 just received. From long range they will be hard to beat, they have the best sensors in the air right now.
Does this need to be revisited? F-35 carrying Aim-9x Block 2 with 360 degree engagement and lock on after launch, not sure it would be wise for an F-22 to try to get into a dogfight against it. Better to use its more powerful radar to try to engage from range. That being said, the F-35 has a significant advantage in operational range and can pick it’s time and place. Also the F-35 has the distributed aperture system, electro-optical targeting system, better sensor fusion, better self defense systems etc. Realistically the F-22 would have its hands full if it decided to merge
This is before you get started, thank you for your service. Isn't the F-22 the last dog fighter, F-35 I thought is more for future combat with drone wingmen and a all purpose jet. But the F-22 still was built with dog fights in mind, now that their being Upgraded to Super Raptors they will have drone wingmen I would assume.
I know it’s a game but the inaccuracies of this game… “Pan… # guns track kill” “Raptor 2 dead”, just last week actually.. it’s extremely vague for reasons.
Yea, it's also with the Aim9x. But this is only present on the F-35 I believe. So technically the F-35 would not even have to turn in order to fire the shot.
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Hey BJC thanks for giving your thoughts on this one too, you're right too I am deff an F-35 fan boy especially since Canada seems to have selected them going forward, Thanks again man, great video as usual 👍
I’ve been growing to love the f35 more every time I learn something about it.
Yo! I'm glad Canada is getting some Panthers! Thanks for your solid dog fights as usual. Let's jump into a dogfight one of these days.
Would like to see a bvr fight between those two
Talking about high off bore sight missiles he should do one on the vid you did with Longshot using the Israeli Python.
Btw, I love your videos. I don't play DCS but I do have an interest in air combat and I've learned so much about it watching your videos.
They really do help people understand what fighters actually do and how the tactics work.
There's so many uneducated people on the internet that have an awful lot to say about controversial subjects like the F-35 and stealth but know so little about it and your videos at least give people the idea of how things really work in the real world and why stealth and 5th gen fighters are so necessary
@@MaxAfterburnerusa yes please! Would love to see a Be Jet clean vs Growling sidewinder dogfight series. Bloodsport tournament style would be epic.
It's important to note that both the F-22 and F-35 are community mods in DCS, so not all systems are modeled or modeled accurately for either aircraft. This is good for entertainment value, though.
Got it, thanks!
Frankly I’d be concerned if DCS had accurate F35 and F22 sims.
The f-22 is still the far superior fighter regardless if it’s in DCS or real life. Fat Amy is slow and not very maneuverable
@@roninjedi2494 the f35 regularly outperforms combat loaded F16s, it's instantaneous AOA is very impressive as well as having the most powerful engine ever developed
@@roninjedi2494 compared to what?
What I like about you is that even though you're immortal (I have a very high regard to all pilots), you treat us mortals as your equal. Unlike other pilot channels out there. You never brag, you never think highly of yourself, and for that, you got yourself another sub.
Yep, enroute atc here. I absolutely fan boy out when I talk to military pilots. Especially fighters and B2's which I talk to often. You can definitely tell some are a little rigid and monotone on the radio with very proper, by the book, phraseology. And some are really laid back, aren't afraid to use plain language or use pleasantries, but still very respectful. Which is generally nice from any pilot.
It’s probably because just cause you find it interesting to ask and learn more, doesn’t mean the other pilots will. The pilot culture isn’t for every pilot
Called leadership
8:52 - Growling Sidewinder can over-G the F-22 because he flies with the G-limiter off. That's why he was able to do a flat spin with it in your previous video.
It is important to point out that both of these planes are unofficial mods so their flight models can be whatever and their damage models are lacking compared to the officially released modules by ED.
no its a limitation of the mod lol all mods are easily over-G'd like that its true with the su30 the su35 F-22 its all the same. Its an SFM thing. also the way the F-22 mod is built you literally cannot dogfight with it unless you turn off the FCS systems (another limitation of being a DCS mod)
@@GrowlingSidewinder wait I thought the f22 is more superior than the f35 in terms of maneuver 😳
Edit= correct me if I'm wrong
Some say, GS flys in arcade Mode. ☝️🤓
Good to know! I always loved the G limiter in the Viper...nice to just be able to pull and G strain without worrying about an over-G!
There is no g limiter “off mode” in the raptor. The aircraft changes its command mode thru the flight envelope. Simple explanation is that It is either g commanded or pitch commanded based on several factors. The change occurs at an approx approximate airspeed which the pilot has a general
Number memorized (changes slightly). So a hard stop pull could either command max g or max pitch.
And yes you can over G an f-22. Asymmetrically or symmetrically. Common for new guys in AK to do a hard stop pull on takeoff at 500 knots at the end of the runway (cold day) and go right to a symmetric over G. Function of low altitude, CG, and gross weight.
I'd love to see you and Growling Sidewinder fly together in DCS one of these days. He also did a few interview videos with real pilot and former Tomcat RIO in the past for his audience. I'd love to see you guys have an official collaboration video in the future
Don't forget about the Rafale pilot too!
F35: I'm here to gain air superiority
F22: I am... Air superiority...
Here's a challenge for you.
I was stationed as an enlisted Jet Engine Mechanic with the 49th Fighter Interceptor Squadron at Griffiss AFB, NY from April of 1977 to February of 1979. The late Col, (then Lt Col) James K. Lowe was my commander. Hearing this from three or more sources, it was rumored that Jim Lowe was the only F-106 pilot that could best an F-15 on the various ACMI ranges in the country. Definitely a Korean War, and possibly WWII, veteran he could do things with that aircraft and his body that no one else could. He was also legendary for being being able to drink anyone under the table. He's been somewhat of a hero to me for most of my life. It would be great to find out if those things about him were true.
What I understand is, that the problem with the AIM-9 Sidewinder (any), that it has to have airflow, when it is activated - not that it would not fit in the weapon bay of the F-35.
That’s why the Raptor has specially designed weapon bays for the Sidewinder - but the F-35 doesn’t. Hence it has to carry the sidewinder on the wing tips.
What I didn’t knew though is the special Block II configuration of the AIM-9X. Thanks for the info.
F-22 shooting down f-35 over golf course is the most Air Force thing ever
LOL right?!
I was on Miramar airforce base building a cell tower when they got a fleet of f22's we where located pretty close to there training area and got to see 12 different dogfight training runs. I'm not sure what they where flying against but the f22 was eating everything alive. That's was the coolest month of work in my life. It's such an impressive plane truly jaw dropping!
Complete nonsense. Why would you make this up? MCAS Miramar is a MARINE base, not a USAF base. They don't have F-22s there at all. Miramar is also in San Diego, and the closest training area is 35nm offshore, or 110nm to the East near NAF El Centro. You wouldn't be able to see anything in either location.
@@dougcronkhite2113 Thats nice. all i know is i saw f22's flying and doing what looked like combat training for several weeks.
@@dougcronkhite2113 El Centro range isn't even big enough for Air to Air. Have to go to R-2301W near Yuma or W291 out over the Pacific. Definitely no air to air viewing location if you are working at Miramar. This guy's story is BS.
One thing that people seem to forget is that the F-22, the F-35 and even the F-15, 16 and 18 are meant to fight together. Can you imagine thinking that you have the drop on an F-35 and then all of the sudden you have a missile on you from you don't know where? Pucker factor to the max!...
Use the f-35 as the dog because it is the worst of all the 5 jets names, it's garbage
But you still don’t understand, the F-22 should be considered sixth generation fighter. It’s way above its time by almost 30 years.
BJC killing it with the video break downs. And responding to questions in the comments.
Yo! thanks!
Great video. I really like the extra context you are able to add based on experience.
As an old F-4 pilot I can tell you the maneuverability of the F-22 will always win the day. It must be realized that the 90-degree angle offset that the AIM_9 can be fired is the limit and not the optimum angle. The growlers are great simple missiles but do have their weaknesses as we found in Vietnam. I know they are better now but heat is not as precise as a radar lock on.
Only on close range. In BVR things are different.
@@TechnoMinarchist, I do not know what the F 22 has for radar since there have been some upgrades so I cannot say but I don't think there is much difference between the two. I believe that the RCS of the F 22 is smaller than the F 35 so that will make a difference at extreme ranges.
Thank you for your service Sir!!
The "over g" warning is from the f15c module in dcs which the f22 module uses as a framework.
Because the F22 is still so classified, the dcs module isnt super realistic like the other modules. Also in real world I wonder if the IRST would give the F35 a better chance at low bvr ranges, thoughts ??
@@mrstring4592 yes for sure and i think the F35 tufns better that what we see in the DCS model. Ivd herd she can hang with the viper which ( if true) is crazy cuz ive seen one up close and they are definatly beefy.
Only here because of the terrifying way the wedge is worn in the thumbnail! Oh, you USAF guys! ;-)
LOL
There is no question who would win in a dogfight, the real question is how many F-35's do you need to take out 1 Raptor.
They fought really well
I spent 24 years in the AF as avionics tech. After I retired I worked for LM. I was at Eglin and taught the AF, Marines, and Navy how to maintain the F-35A,B,C. The F-35 doesn't do close in dog fights. Prior to entering the TOT they do a contrail check. If you visually see a F-35 that pilot made a mistake. They see you well beyond visual range and steer around the threat. The Navy's Top Gun school at Fallen NAS requires graduates to purposely go up against Gen V fighters like the F-22 or the F-35. No F-18 has ever shot down either a F-22 or F-35 in this simulation. The F-35 avionics initially were superior to the F-22 however the F-22 is now getting upgraded. My point is in regards to the F-35 in combat you will never see it if the pilot is executing the mission as he was trained.
So whats the main advantage of F35? just longer range fights?
F35 is a smart phone with wings. It has the best cameras, radar, and sensors, the best electronic counter measures built in, and has adequate stealth from it's shape and coating to be resistant to radar guided weapons. It caries a decent number of weapons for most sortees, including nuclear weapons and 2000lb bombs internally. It also is flexible enough that it could perform any other role well enough. Any time you ask "can the F35 be used for [insert mission]" the answer is always yes. @@Mysteryboy0007
Things nobody says, “F-22 in the merge.”
It's unprecedented the precedence of the unprecedented precedence!!!! 👍😮
I think Growling Sidewinder, in what he calls "dogfights", usually begins all of them like that, with a very close 'merge', as he says. He does BVR matches sometimes too, which might actually be more appropriate for F-35 vs F-22. From my untrained eye, he seems like an excellent pilot, but perhaps you could comment. He's exceptionally good with the F-16C, but he seems to have a very good mind for aerial maneuvers in general, and how to counter them. I personally, as you probably already guessed, would like to see a 2 v 2 match, with an F-35 and a Rafale on one side, and a J-20 and a J-10 on the other (though I'm not entirely sure if the Rafale is available in DCS), or perhaps a J-20 and a J-31 on the other side, or a J-31 and a J-10. I suspect the Rafale and F-35 match-up could beat them all, and could even outperform an F-35 and F/A-18 team. Just bear in mind that things like the F-35's datalink, its radar, its DAS, it's extremely likely that all of that is considerably better, in real life, than it is currently being modeled by DCS, partly because they don't model some of those things, because they don't really know how they work, so they just omit them. For example, they don't model AESA radars in DCS, but rather, they just give it a very powerful non-AESA radar, to simulate an AESA radar, which I imagine is not exactly the same. And things like decoys. US decoys are generally modeled as no better or worse than Russian or Chinese decoys, even though they may actually be considerably better. So just bear that in mind as you watch these.
You might consider offering Growling Sidewinder and Grim Reapers suggestions for how to more realistically set up these kinds of engagements, to make it more like what we might do in training (unclassified information only, of course), and more like what they might see in combat, either in a US, UK or Japan force, perhaps carrier based, or perhaps sometimes based on land, versus either a Chinese or a Russian force. It may be that they conduct the missions like that in part because it starts it off in a way that's interesting for the viewers, but it may also be because they never had a Thunderbirds instructor available to offer them some new ideas before...
Excellent video. Thank you again.
If a sonic boom nudges your golf ball into the hole, that still counts, right?
Love to hear you point out the difference between an off bore missile like the 9X. Read about an exercise in England called meatball-14 where a Gripen test this out against two Eurofighters. An easy pick for the Eurofighter one might think. Gripen had the HMD and IRIS-T. The merge lasted 9sek. with the Gripen still flying. Yep, I don’t think they would waste flying the F-35 without the 9X, and the outcome would’ve been different.
Should do a vid of GS's fight with Ate in the Mirage. Ate's an ex-Rafale driver so would be nice to hear an actual Viper/Eagle driver's comments on how GS's moves or what you would do against a delta wing. There are 3 vids GS made with Ate if I recall, so plenty to cover :D
It'd be cool to also see your reaction to some of Growling Sidewinders dog fights where it's evenly matched 4th gen fighters. I feel like those videos would give you a lot to comment on because they're more of a knife fight.
Okay thanks!
Great video.
Max, I am a retired TACP I had an A1C who was an incredible golfer I would be in the office and one, two and three star generals would be calling asking him to be on their team crazy how golf is with the AF.
DO MORE DCS WITH GS.. Love that.
I'm super stoked that the RCAF has purchased the F-35 A. I would love to see one at an airshow in he next couple of years when they finally get delivered!
Same here!
Thanks for sharing this video.
Not surprised at a close dog fight... but what about 50 miles out real world scenario. Real stealth on stealth.
Please do a dog fight rundown between The Locheed Martin F-22 Raptor vs The Eurofighter Typhoon. America 🇺🇸 vs 🇪🇺 Europe. This will be extremely interesting.
My understanding is the F-35 here is carrying "a" AIM-9X, and it does have HOBS capability. It may be a neutered version from what you say. The way they model it in DCS (judging from the GS and similar videos I've seen), the farther off boresight you go, the longer it takes to lock on. So they have had shots at targets at 80-90 degrees, but it never just starts growling the second they put the reticle on target, it takes a period of time to lock. Sounds like its different from the real thing? Re the F22 G-limit warnings - my understanding is F22 model has the function of being able to override the flight control computer and/or an ability to turn the G-limiter off, and that is how the aircraft is over-g-ing. Certainly that is the case for the DCS F-18 model. You often hear over-G warnings when guy is flying an F-15. DCS allows a lot of it before it damages the airframe. Maybe that's unrealistic.
That scene you painted was just beautiful, F-22 and F-35 ruling the skies -but it was never in the Air Forces playbook. They wanted to scrap the F-22 to get even more F-35s. Ditto the A-10, Super Hornet, and who knows what else. An entire force of relatively slow, fragile, short-ranged planes with limited maneuverability to fill the roles of air superiority, recon, tactical bomber, ground support, and interceptor for ALL the services. Unfortunately, they found out that it costs a lot more to operate than they thought. so they ordered more Falcons, and Hornets, and are considering a new version of Eagle. F-35 does not suck, and it has its place, even better than any other platform for certain missions. But it can not be everything.
Your youth and energy is inspiring. You must be a highly sought recruiter to youth. God be with you.
I love this video! I'm just starting to explore your content, but I've been a Growling Sidewinder fan for a while. I'm thrilled to see you review his videos, and I would freak out to see you dogfight or form up in a wing together and annihilate some hostiles.
Lockheed needs to concentrate on making these jets glider friendly in case of jet failure. Those cockpit side wings may be one idea to assist thus idea
You should see when Growling Sidewinder is in a Flanker and has an F-22 pull-up in formation with him. I could not stop laughing at the disrespect.
Awesome commentary, thanks for breaking this down for us 👍👍
My understanding without watching anything is that the F-22 while older is built from the ground up for pure air superiority, while the f-35 trades some of that to be able to perform other roles.
Correct. The F-35 is not meant to be a dogfighter or air superiority fighter. It's meant to be stealth fighter plane used to attack ground targets (like tanks, armored vehicles, buildings, etc) . The F-35 entirely relies on its stealth to avoid getting detected by enemies.
The F-22 fighter is purely meant to kill other fighters with no compromises. If you want to kill another fighter jet, then use an F-22.
Hey Ryan, awesome video! Which do you miss more...the F-15E or the Thunderbird?
Growling Sidewinder, Be Jet Clean and CW Lemoine are def my favorite yt channels when it comes to aviation and fighter jets!
Awesome! Those guys are great
I do think bigger calibers hit harder though. A 25mm round simply has more HEI compound than a 20mm round. It is gonna shred the target worse. In WWII the Germans estimated it took 17 hits of 20mm and just 4 of 30mm on average to take down a medium bomber. Meanwhile 30mm very often shattered fighters while 20mm didn't reliably do so in 1 hit. Closer to 4 or 5.
Now, sure, any plane which has ever flown *could* probably be taken down by a single round of rifle caliber machine gun with precise enough targeting. Shot placement matters. But the kill zone for a 30mm is a much larger section of the aircraft.
Definitely interested in seeing more analysis like this
So being our most modern jets in the sky that are admitted to exist at least, I wonder exactly how maneuverable they would be if they used some exotic technology to mitigate g forces like the weird fluid breathing concepts or some weird electromagnetic mechanism?
Eyy! Here it is! I commented on your tiktok about how i wanted you to do reactions on more DCS content! Great video
Awesome thank you! More to come!
F-22's are getting HMD's now and much less known, about 1/3 of Raptors have been using Scorpion Monocle System for quite some time now
Air defense capabilities should mean that bombs and missiles need to be stealthily not just the ac that deploys them because modern radars and engagement system computers likely can intercept a bomb or missile in the air before reaching the target. I could be wrong but I don’t know if any bombs currently have stealth features even though a2a and a2g missiles more and more are stealthy. I’ve heard a rumor though that even in the 90s the F-117 deployed to combat with LGBs like gbu-27 that were given lightweight ram, but not officially known as training shape LGBs have no special ram or ras features just iron bombs and metalic paveway kits,
Max AB, love your DCS analysis!!👍
Bet that aim9x b2plus is triple the price of the aim9x. Excellent video
Thanks for the comparison Jim Carry. LOL
At 9:23, that was a collision. I'm surprised that he didn't bring it up.
Got it, thanks!
I live near Hill AFB and I can't believe how much louder the F35 is over the F16.
Have you tried DCS? It would be interesting!
Now imagine if they didn’t drop the f-22 program and added hmd to the raptor. The f-35… hell, almost any fighter would be in pieces within seconds of passing that thing
@9:09 that is unfortunately an issue of the DCS world. F-22 is actually a community made mod that uses all avionic code from official F-15 module. so that is why the HUD and MFD symbology looks so similar. (Some F-22 enthusiasts that know how to code, took the F-15 official module and modified it to match the flight characteristics of F-22 A on paper) Can't wait until we get an official module for the F-22.
The Air Force Academy has not 1 but 2 18 hole golf courses! 😂
F-35 vs. F-22 definitely comes down to engagement zone, and that's been played out in the real. Assuming similar combat skills, BVR, the combat suite's going to win. Close into a dogfight, the better machine wins.
Also, of course all our AFBs have golf courses. It's all the room we saved from needless gun ranges.
Please look up the vid of the concept killswitch, Northrup Grumman, possibly skunk works. What are your thoughts on that, because it looks like a real contender
F35 can carry 4 amraams internally for AA loadout...not sure why that wasn't mentioned? And with the new Block 4 upgrades, it can carry 6 internally.
The f-35 can only carry 2 missiles internally. The rest are carried externally which destroys its stealth
@@roninjedi2494 Incorrect. It can carry 4 AIM120s in its current state, Block 4 upgrades that to 6.
Okay so I've recently seen some newer videos of fat Amy maneuvering. In DCS it's much more sluggish than the actual aircraft is. It needs a update In game. I'm not saying that it'll outmaneuver the F-22 but it's surprisingly improved.
Isnt the F22 meant to be upgraded to carry AIM-120Ds and AIM 9x or already have been?!
Correct, it does carry the 9x and already is testing with the 120D’s
Can you explain off bore sight shots in one of your videos?
At MCAS Miramar this past weekend I spoke to a Louisiana ANG pilot flying the F-15C for a bit. He mentioned going up against the F-35, and said it wasn't really even a challenge to beat it in BFM. The F-35 just isn't built for that kind of engagement. In its correct employment, the F-35 was unbeatable, but once they got to BFM, the F-35 died in less than a full turn in either 1 or 2 circle fights.
Wanted to ask, if you were going through Air Force training again, and you could choose any aircraft to start in, what would it be? Or we it stay as the f15e strike eagle? Another thing is that these are dcs mods, so they don’t actually emulate the real life physics and performance of either aircraft. Additionally the f22 uses a standard flight model, meaning that it’s performance is unrealistic, while the f35 mod uses the f15c flight model, with a lower radar signature, but they sure do well in bvr
F-15EX would be my first choice and then F-35 next
@@MaxAfterburnerusa not F22? Just curious as to why the f35 over f22! Sorry just a fanboy of that beautiful thrust vectoring jet😂 love the channel and thank you for your service!
@@EBMisKing Just going off what he said in the video, sounds like the HMD is a big factor.
@@EBMisKing the F-35 is more advanced it has an HMD and it should be capable of winning the dogfight if it was in real life with the off-boresight launch the F-22 they are working on a significant package to upgrade it but it was designed in the 90’s
@@EBMisKing no more F-22s being built and F-35As and F-15EXs are being newly built rn
Great video it was one I thought about
Why would you pass someone that close without lighting them up with the guns?
Sadly, we never made enough F22s for them to work in conjunction with F35.
However, we've been assured that the abilities of F22 are obsolete and will never be needed and the F35 does everything fine.
Watch any 2019 thru the present flight demo of the F-35 that is flown by the actual USAF F-35 Demo Team. You will see the full Block 3F, 9G rated F-35 as it is flown in service. You will see Raptor- worthy instantaneous direction reversals (the Dojo Drift is sick; looks like some weird UFO shit). There is a controlled 'helicopter' flat spin, a demonstration of slow, controlled _insane AoA_ flight with 50° AoA maintained. Depending on who flies the demo, you may see the F-35 come out of the flat spin into a knife edge, literally hanging in the sky, after which it accelerates away _in a climb!_ Something I noticed about the F-35 is it's ability to literally fly nonstop in departure mode yet maintain controlled flight, with the acceleration out of High Alpha recovery being absolutely nuts. If an F-35 exhibits nose slice or drop coming out of AoA, it's because the pilot wanted it so; this thing does not hardly ever need to nose drop to regain airspeed because the thrust to weight is ludicrous.
It always blows me away that people still think this jet is clumsy. It's probably the most agile jet without TVC that ever took to the skies. Damn thing flies a lot like the Raptor.
Also.....the F-35 in DCS is super deeply NERF'd to hell. It has none of the performance the real jet has.
Awesome Capt. Greetings from Canada.
Hey, thanks! Flew with the Snowbirds a while back...epic
I loooove this channel. Thank you creator RUclipsr guy!!!
Glad you're enjoying it! -Creator RUclips Dude
I do think, that the F-35 in DCS is grossly misrepresented. a) it has no DAS (it is just classic HUD, what the F-35 doesn’t even have). b) it seems, that it doesn’t fly as the latest combat ready F-35’s fly! Because the augmented flight control system, can do things, which you normally can only see on thrust vectoring jets (e.g. impossible high AoA).
So yes - the Raptor is unbelievable good in dogfights (which is not really helping in real life situations). However the F-35 is probably the jet which comes the closest...
A lot of people forget, the f35 also replaces an awacs in a fight, and any f35 in the flight can assume that roll. The Avionics in the F35 is what makes it special.
‘Gripen first participated in Red Flag 2006 with the Gripen A,’ says Stefan Englund , former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer on Quora. ‘It was assigned to the red team. Reduced AWACS, reduced ground support. The Gripens connected their link systems and acted themselves as AWACs, got the battlefield awareness necessary and avoided all ground defence, scored 10 kills the first day including a Typhoon. No losses they remained undetected. One Gripen pilot knocked down five F-16 block 50+ during close air combat in Red Flag Alaska. And the Gripens never lost any aerial encounter or failed their mission objectives. It was the only fighter that performed all planed starts, while others were sitting on the ground waiting for the weather to clear up. The evaluation was that Gripen capacity needed to be revaluated.
Surprised you said at the end the F35 & F22 make a good combo.....would've thought an F15E or EX with F22 top cover would make a better combo for ground pound work
Forgetting the dogfight scenario, which plane would detect the other first? If it's the F-35, would that be enough of an advantage to tip the odds in its favor?
No, the F35 is not supposed to be fighting alongside the F22. The partner nations would not have joined if the F35 was not also an air superiority fighter. Remember, only the US has the F22, and most air forces only has one fighter.
It was over g-ing because growling flies it with the fcs over ride on.. so the computer has no control over AOA. But it will still yell at you lol good video buddy once again 👍
I say, we stop giving politician's pay bumps and build as many F-22's as humanly possible.
Definitely do more reaction videos from Growling Sidewinder!!
I was really hoping this would come out today 😭 but you know I’ll be tuned in when it finally does drop
Thanks for the patience! RUclips algorithm usually likes 2 videos per week
Bagel on a tripod, left screen. Lol.
I’ll always remember while floating in the Dead Sea watching the Israeli Air Force dog fighting with real missiles chasing them, thinking even if they have no explosives if they hit you you’re going down. And the pilots were pulling major Gs to keep away from them. I’m impressed!
Not an expert, but in my opinion, the F-35 is more advanced but in a one-on-one air to air, the F-22 is probably superior. But if I had to be a combat pilot in either, I'd choose the F-35. It's probably a match for any fighter that isn't the F-22.
Hi thanks for your comment!
The BVR ability of the F35( its strong point) is nerfed in DCS,They may update it soon given the good reception the updated F16 just received.
From long range they will be hard to beat, they have the best sensors in the air right now.
>it's essentially like siblings fighting
Fat Amy be like: what are you doing step-bro?
*SWEET HOME ALABAMA INTENIFIES*
The F-35B has a gunpod with 220 rnds of 25 mm. The F-35A has an internal 25mm gun with 180 rnds.
Would you intercept me? I’d intercept me.
Love these 🔥🔥
Does this need to be revisited? F-35 carrying Aim-9x Block 2 with 360 degree engagement and lock on after launch, not sure it would be wise for an F-22 to try to get into a dogfight against it. Better to use its more powerful radar to try to engage from range. That being said, the F-35 has a significant advantage in operational range and can pick it’s time and place. Also the F-35 has the distributed aperture system, electro-optical targeting system, better sensor fusion, better self defense systems etc. Realistically the F-22 would have its hands full if it decided to merge
I golf beside a gun range and a stunt flying school. No lie. It gets very WWII.
Thanks. Interesting video.
Glad you liked it!
Cos both F-22 and F-35 are unofficial mods and done by community, both of them don't have HMD's. They use 9x but have only vertical mode for lock.
Interesting thanks
Yup. All have golf courses. MWR gotta do it’s thing
Exactly!
Hey Ryan, how do I get the same shirt you are wearing in this video?!!
The F-22 patrols the skies around the Globe ? Your too optimistic !
This is before you get started, thank you for your service. Isn't the F-22 the last dog fighter, F-35 I thought is more for future combat with drone wingmen and a all purpose jet. But the F-22 still was built with dog fights in mind, now that their being Upgraded to Super Raptors they will have drone wingmen I would assume.
I know it’s a game but the inaccuracies of this game… “Pan… # guns track kill” “Raptor 2 dead”, just last week actually.. it’s extremely vague for reasons.
interesting thanks
Question, doesn't the latest version of the AMRAAM have lock on after launch capability allowing the F-35 to fire it at an F-22 on its 6?
Yea, it's also with the Aim9x. But this is only present on the F-35 I believe. So technically the F-35 would not even have to turn in order to fire the shot.
480 rounds? im gonna need more than that
Did someone count how many times this guy said "Unprecedented" ?