I appreciate you taking the time to read and reflect on this novel, especially given that you are a Christian with conflicting political views to the author; that being said I have some thoughts. You mentioned a couple of times how you disagreed with Atwood's portrayal of Christianity and Christian values, saying that real Christians would never treat individuals that way if in power. I think that is exactly Atwood's point, often times people will disguise themselves as Christians as a means to justify whatever moral standpoint they are taking. People who do not truly know Jesus will pick and choose scripture to make themselves seem morally superior to others. You even point out throughout your video how Pharisees and religious leaders were the ones to crucify Jesus, which is why I don't understand how you can take away from the novel the idea that Atwood was trying to shame actual Christians. Rather, I found that she is pointing out some of the inconsistencies in certain peoples religous ideologies and twisted biblical interpretations. Additionally, I can't say I agree with your view on abortion, though I do respect the approach you are taking. You mentioned how the comparison of a handmaid who is forced to conceive and birth children to many modern day scenarios is unfair. I would just like to acknowledge how there are so many modern day examples of women being SAd/r@ped and forced the bare the child especially in a society where abortion is illegal and harshly vindicated. I do understand your approach of saying that individuals should not have the choice of harming others, but I think there are so many examples where a woman would not have the resources or the ability to bare a child and would be seriously harmed, whether emotionally or physically, by being forced to birth that fetus. I think it's difficult to equate a fully developed human life to an un-developed fetus, and irresponsible to imply that women who get abortions are choosing to cause harm, when it is far more complex than that. Finally, I'm sorry this is so long and I'm not looking to start a debate or argument, I just wanted to share my perspective on the novel and hopefully open your eyes a little bit to alternate ways of thinking.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to write out such a genuine response Avery. 🥰 I really do appreciate it, and don't at all mind the fact that it is long. You make a few good points! I see what you mean about Atwood not meaning to shame Christians, however I do not recall a single "Christian" character who was highlighted to have truly Christian beliefs or values. I suppose it could be argued that a real Christian would've ended up stoned, or hung on the wall for some reason or other in Gilead' s society, so maybe they chose silence. I just found it telling that none were highlighted. We definitely have different views on when life begins. However, I can absolutely empathize with a woman who sees pregnancy termination as her only course of action. And I would never condemn a woman who has chosen abortion in the past. I agree that it is a very complex situation, but I do not believe abortion solves or helps heal the damage that has been done to a woman in a SA situation. Statistically speaking, it doesn't. That should be our ultimate goal. Helping her heal. Will the act of abortion heal and undo the violence already done? No, of course not. A woman in a situation like this should be surrounded by people who will love her and support her in her journey towards healing, and abortion doesn't do that. People who were conceived in horrific cases such as rape are no less people than you or I. I think it is a dangerous rhetoric to consider human life as terminable at any stage of development. Those are just my thoughts on the subject. It's okay to agree to disagree. ❤️ Finally, I thank you again for your thoughts. I have a passion for conversations such as these. Any opportunity to further our understanding of each other's perspectives is a blessing. 🥰🙏
I was a christian for the first 30 years of my life so I definitely understand the lens through which you're interpreting this book as well as the desire to always defend your faith. there's reason it isn't in the christian book section haha. the story is just an example of what can happen when religion is used as a tool to oppress targeted members of society through authoritarian means. I don't believe it was meant as an indictment of christianity but rather those who use it to seize power. those who seize it for themselves and also those who support the ones doing the seizing. attempting to define what a "real christian" looks like is impossible. especially when the religious community tends to capitulate to anyone in power who claims to hold the same beliefs, even though those beliefs are never demonstrated. the handmaids tale is a warning to recognize authoritarianism, but perhaps also to recognize when someone is attempting to manipulate you with your own faith.
I really respect you for (maybe) going out of your comfort zone and reading a book with a leftist message whilst being a Christian conservative, but I think you somewhat missed the point of the book. She is not saying that all Christians themselves would create or like a society like the Gilead, or that Christianity itself would create a Gilead, but I think it is exploring how patriarchy can use tools such as religion to make people believe in and uphold the patriarchy. This has been seen in other systemic forces of oppression such as homophobia, in the mistranslated verse Leviticus 18:22, that was translated to say "one should not lay with a man as he does a woman" when it should say "one should not lay with a boy as he does a woman" outlining a stance against pedophilia rather than homosexuality. I understand why you may see it like this though, it is easy to feel attacked by media such as the handmaids tale if you're a Christian, especially one who knows they would hate the Gilead. I still think you have missed the point of the book however, in that it is a hugely important piece of second wave feminist literature rather than an anti-christian book. It is not anti-christianity, it is anti-patriarchy and if parts of Christianity fall into that then that's the way the cookie crumbles. It is hard to deny that the Bible isn't exactly feminist; Deuteronomy 22:22-29 shows this well among other verses and rhetoric. On a more nit picky note, the weird and almost messy feel of the book is intentional, as shown by the last chapter "historical notes" where it is made clear that the book is (in the lore of the universe of the handmaids tale) is a transcription of Offred's audio recordings that were reordered by two male professors, again showing symbolism of patriarchy as even in death and even when telling her first hand account men can't help themselves but get involved. Lastly I don't think the book has any relation to abortion, or at least that's not what I got from it. Saying that women aren't baby making machines designed to serve men isn't pro choice or pro life inherently. That being said I also disagree with your pro life stance but that's a separate issue. A well made video still, and coming from a christian conservative it was fairer than I thought it would be, but I wish you could choose to stand with it rather than against it because it has many insights into your religion's people that you seem to not be able to see.
Thank you for taking the time to comment!! I really do appreciate it. 🥰 I can definitely appreciate the book as a piece of feminist literature! It is definitely that. I'm very glad we do not have to live like people in the old testament, thanks to Jesus. I don't do well with blood, so all those animal sacrifices they were expected to do would not go over well with me haha. However, God is definitely not anti women's rights, even in the old testament. In Numbers 26, there is an account of a woman named Noah. When Noah's father passed away with no male heirs, Noah and her sisters went to Moses asking to be granted their just inheritance. At the time, a father's inheritance would not go to a daughter. Moses went to God about the situation and asked what to do. And guess what? God basically says, "The daughters of Zelophehad are right. You shall give them possession of an inheritance among their father’s brothers and transfer the inheritance of their father to them." I also agree that women are not baby making machines designed to serve men. Based off various different accounts from the Bible, I think God would agree also. Again, I love that you took the time to respond!! Thank you for your thoughts. I love having conversations like this. Any opportunity to further our understanding of each other's perspectives is a blessing. 🥰🙏
“That is probably the most GenZ thing I’ve ever said” I’m so sorry but that comment absolutely cracked me up 🤣 I’ve never had any interest in this book or show, but I was curious to see what you would say about it. This was an excellent video, Tabitha! Very well spoken and clear thoughts. Like Celestria, the book and show seem so depressing, but I can see how it could be thought provoking…in a almost stomach turning way.
I really thought your insight was interesting as i did this novel as a part of dissertation discussing power within the novel. I don't think that Atwood is saying that Christians would justify acts such as the ceremony etc. I believe that she is commenting on how people in power can use religion as a tool to gain power over people, in this case predominantly women. I would argue that the good actions people take towards characters would be more closely aligned with Christianity than the Gilead system. I also think that within abusive situations women can be forced to get abortions to hide the abuse but women can also be raped, become pregnant and forced to continue with the pregnancy as a means of keeping them within the relationship. I also like how we don't fully know how America fell and became Gilead because from the perspective of an everyday person, you wouldn't really know. I feel like it would have seemed like it came out of nowhere. By focussing on an everyday person as the protagonist i think it grounds the novel in the same way that 1984 by George Orwell does. An everday type person living in this society wouldn't be able to know, their main focus would be on surviving or escaping.
Hey there!! Thank you so much for taking the time to respectfully comment your thoughts. I genuinely appreciate it!! 🥰 I agree that men who are abusers in relationships may also prohibit abortion, but it seems more often to be the other way around. The National Institutes of Health conducted a study and reported the following: "Our findings clearly indicate that abusive men are more likely than their nonabusive peers to report being involved in pregnancies ending in abortion, with this effect amplified for the association of IPV and involvement in 3 or more abortions." In pointing this out, I'm not meaning to take away from the other side of the experience. Women who have been victims of abuse should be loved and supported on their journey towards healing. Will the act of abortion heal and undo the violence already done? Of course not. I think it is a dangerous rhetoric to consider human life as terminable at any stage of development. Those are just my thoughts. It's okay to agree to disagree. ❤️ Also, I definitely get what you're saying about Atwood centralizing the story around an everyday person, focusing on their perspective rather than the full picture of what's going on in the government. Unfortunately, I'm that person who is always asking questions. 😂 So, I want to know what the series of events are that lead society to where it is in the book. Maybe it would SEEM to happen overnight, but nothing of that caliber could realistically happen overnight. I recognize that wasn't the main focus of the story, but I personally wanted more explanation in that department. I don't think it would've taken away from the overall potency of the story to have a tad bit more explanation, especially given the fact that Atwood seems to drive a very specific political message with it now. Thank you again for taking the time to comment!! I love opportunities to have discussions like this with people. Any opportunity to further our understanding of each other's perspectives is a blessing. 🥰🙏
Thanks for taking one for the team and reading this one, and providing such a thoughtful response. I've not read the book but I agreed wholeheartedly with your thoughts on Christianity, Abraham and Sarah and Hagar, etc. The gospel is so beautiful, isn't it?!
I appreciate you taking the time to read and reflect on this novel, especially given that you are a Christian with conflicting political views to the author; that being said I have some thoughts. You mentioned a couple of times how you disagreed with Atwood's portrayal of Christianity and Christian values, saying that real Christians would never treat individuals that way if in power. I think that is exactly Atwood's point, often times people will disguise themselves as Christians as a means to justify whatever moral standpoint they are taking. People who do not truly know Jesus will pick and choose scripture to make themselves seem morally superior to others. You even point out throughout your video how Pharisees and religious leaders were the ones to crucify Jesus, which is why I don't understand how you can take away from the novel the idea that Atwood was trying to shame actual Christians. Rather, I found that she is pointing out some of the inconsistencies in certain peoples religous ideologies and twisted biblical interpretations. Additionally, I can't say I agree with your view on abortion, though I do respect the approach you are taking. You mentioned how the comparison of a handmaid who is forced to conceive and birth children to many modern day scenarios is unfair. I would just like to acknowledge how there are so many modern day examples of women being SAd/r@ped and forced the bare the child especially in a society where abortion is illegal and harshly vindicated. I do understand your approach of saying that individuals should not have the choice of harming others, but I think there are so many examples where a woman would not have the resources or the ability to bare a child and would be seriously harmed, whether emotionally or physically, by being forced to birth that fetus. I think it's difficult to equate a fully developed human life to an un-developed fetus, and irresponsible to imply that women who get abortions are choosing to cause harm, when it is far more complex than that. Finally, I'm sorry this is so long and I'm not looking to start a debate or argument, I just wanted to share my perspective on the novel and hopefully open your eyes a little bit to alternate ways of thinking.
First of all, thank you for taking the time to write out such a genuine response Avery. 🥰 I really do appreciate it, and don't at all mind the fact that it is long.
You make a few good points! I see what you mean about Atwood not meaning to shame Christians, however I do not recall a single "Christian" character who was highlighted to have truly Christian beliefs or values. I suppose it could be argued that a real Christian would've ended up stoned, or hung on the wall for some reason or other in Gilead' s society, so maybe they chose silence. I just found it telling that none were highlighted.
We definitely have different views on when life begins. However, I can absolutely empathize with a woman who sees pregnancy termination as her only course of action. And I would never condemn a woman who has chosen abortion in the past.
I agree that it is a very complex situation, but I do not believe abortion solves or helps heal the damage that has been done to a woman in a SA situation. Statistically speaking, it doesn't. That should be our ultimate goal. Helping her heal. Will the act of abortion heal and undo the violence already done? No, of course not. A woman in a situation like this should be surrounded by people who will love her and support her in her journey towards healing, and abortion doesn't do that.
People who were conceived in horrific cases such as rape are no less people than you or I. I think it is a dangerous rhetoric to consider human life as terminable at any stage of development. Those are just my thoughts on the subject. It's okay to agree to disagree. ❤️
Finally, I thank you again for your thoughts. I have a passion for conversations such as these. Any opportunity to further our understanding of each other's perspectives is a blessing. 🥰🙏
I was a christian for the first 30 years of my life so I definitely understand the lens through which you're interpreting this book as well as the desire to always defend your faith. there's reason it isn't in the christian book section haha. the story is just an example of what can happen when religion is used as a tool to oppress targeted members of society through authoritarian means. I don't believe it was meant as an indictment of christianity but rather those who use it to seize power. those who seize it for themselves and also those who support the ones doing the seizing.
attempting to define what a "real christian" looks like is impossible. especially when the religious community tends to capitulate to anyone in power who claims to hold the same beliefs, even though those beliefs are never demonstrated.
the handmaids tale is a warning to recognize authoritarianism, but perhaps also to recognize when someone is attempting to manipulate you with your own faith.
This was so thorough! Well done! 👍🏻
Thank you Holly!! 🥰🫶
I really respect you for (maybe) going out of your comfort zone and reading a book with a leftist message whilst being a Christian conservative, but I think you somewhat missed the point of the book. She is not saying that all Christians themselves would create or like a society like the Gilead, or that Christianity itself would create a Gilead, but I think it is exploring how patriarchy can use tools such as religion to make people believe in and uphold the patriarchy. This has been seen in other systemic forces of oppression such as homophobia, in the mistranslated verse Leviticus 18:22, that was translated to say "one should not lay with a man as he does a woman" when it should say "one should not lay with a boy as he does a woman" outlining a stance against pedophilia rather than homosexuality. I understand why you may see it like this though, it is easy to feel attacked by media such as the handmaids tale if you're a Christian, especially one who knows they would hate the Gilead. I still think you have missed the point of the book however, in that it is a hugely important piece of second wave feminist literature rather than an anti-christian book. It is not anti-christianity, it is anti-patriarchy and if parts of Christianity fall into that then that's the way the cookie crumbles. It is hard to deny that the Bible isn't exactly feminist; Deuteronomy 22:22-29 shows this well among other verses and rhetoric. On a more nit picky note, the weird and almost messy feel of the book is intentional, as shown by the last chapter "historical notes" where it is made clear that the book is (in the lore of the universe of the handmaids tale) is a transcription of Offred's audio recordings that were reordered by two male professors, again showing symbolism of patriarchy as even in death and even when telling her first hand account men can't help themselves but get involved. Lastly I don't think the book has any relation to abortion, or at least that's not what I got from it. Saying that women aren't baby making machines designed to serve men isn't pro choice or pro life inherently. That being said I also disagree with your pro life stance but that's a separate issue. A well made video still, and coming from a christian conservative it was fairer than I thought it would be, but I wish you could choose to stand with it rather than against it because it has many insights into your religion's people that you seem to not be able to see.
Thank you for taking the time to comment!! I really do appreciate it. 🥰
I can definitely appreciate the book as a piece of feminist literature! It is definitely that. I'm very glad we do not have to live like people in the old testament, thanks to Jesus. I don't do well with blood, so all those animal sacrifices they were expected to do would not go over well with me haha. However, God is definitely not anti women's rights, even in the old testament.
In Numbers 26, there is an account of a woman named Noah. When Noah's father passed away with no male heirs, Noah and her sisters went to Moses asking to be granted their just inheritance. At the time, a father's inheritance would not go to a daughter.
Moses went to God about the situation and asked what to do. And guess what? God basically says, "The daughters of Zelophehad are right. You shall give them possession of an inheritance among their father’s brothers and transfer the inheritance of their father to them."
I also agree that women are not baby making machines designed to serve men. Based off various different accounts from the Bible, I think God would agree also.
Again, I love that you took the time to respond!! Thank you for your thoughts. I love having conversations like this. Any opportunity to further our understanding of each other's perspectives is a blessing. 🥰🙏
“That is probably the most GenZ thing I’ve ever said” I’m so sorry but that comment absolutely cracked me up 🤣
I’ve never had any interest in this book or show, but I was curious to see what you would say about it. This was an excellent video, Tabitha! Very well spoken and clear thoughts. Like Celestria, the book and show seem so depressing, but I can see how it could be thought provoking…in a almost stomach turning way.
😆🤣 Thank you!!! 🥰
I really thought your insight was interesting as i did this novel as a part of dissertation discussing power within the novel. I don't think that Atwood is saying that Christians would justify acts such as the ceremony etc. I believe that she is commenting on how people in power can use religion as a tool to gain power over people, in this case predominantly women. I would argue that the good actions people take towards characters would be more closely aligned with Christianity than the Gilead system. I also think that within abusive situations women can be forced to get abortions to hide the abuse but women can also be raped, become pregnant and forced to continue with the pregnancy as a means of keeping them within the relationship. I also like how we don't fully know how America fell and became Gilead because from the perspective of an everyday person, you wouldn't really know. I feel like it would have seemed like it came out of nowhere. By focussing on an everyday person as the protagonist i think it grounds the novel in the same way that 1984 by George Orwell does. An everday type person living in this society wouldn't be able to know, their main focus would be on surviving or escaping.
Hey there!! Thank you so much for taking the time to respectfully comment your thoughts. I genuinely appreciate it!! 🥰
I agree that men who are abusers in relationships may also prohibit abortion, but it seems more often to be the other way around. The National Institutes of Health conducted a study and reported the following: "Our findings clearly indicate that abusive men are more likely than their nonabusive peers to report being involved in pregnancies ending in abortion, with this effect amplified for the association of IPV and involvement in 3 or more abortions." In pointing this out, I'm not meaning to take away from the other side of the experience.
Women who have been victims of abuse should be loved and supported on their journey towards healing. Will the act of abortion heal and undo the violence already done? Of course not. I think it is a dangerous rhetoric to consider human life as terminable at any stage of development. Those are just my thoughts. It's okay to agree to disagree. ❤️
Also, I definitely get what you're saying about Atwood centralizing the story around an everyday person, focusing on their perspective rather than the full picture of what's going on in the government.
Unfortunately, I'm that person who is always asking questions. 😂 So, I want to know what the series of events are that lead society to where it is in the book. Maybe it would SEEM to happen overnight, but nothing of that caliber could realistically happen overnight.
I recognize that wasn't the main focus of the story, but I personally wanted more explanation in that department. I don't think it would've taken away from the overall potency of the story to have a tad bit more explanation, especially given the fact that Atwood seems to drive a very specific political message with it now.
Thank you again for taking the time to comment!! I love opportunities to have discussions like this with people. Any opportunity to further our understanding of each other's perspectives is a blessing. 🥰🙏
Thanks for taking one for the team and reading this one, and providing such a thoughtful response. I've not read the book but I agreed wholeheartedly with your thoughts on Christianity, Abraham and Sarah and Hagar, etc. The gospel is so beautiful, isn't it?!
Thank you for watching!! And yes absolutely!! 🥰
No
This book and show sounds and looks so depressing 😭
Great video girl!
Thank you!! ❤️