The True Meaning of Nietzsche's Eternal Recurrence of the Same
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2019
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What does Amor Fati really mean? Does it just mean to accept our fates and be stoic? Or is there something else at stake? Time itself and its movement are at stake when we understand that amor fati is deeply connected to the eternal recurrence of the same.
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Copyright: Johannes Achill Niederhauser
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I feel like I've been here before, and I'll be here again.
Nice.....
Same here.
Me too. I been feeling this a lot lately. I have on numerous occasions felt I had been through this before, like dejavu big-time. I recalled all the memories of a quite a lot of incidents making me believe i have definitely gone through an experience exact before. I was so weirded out till I came across eternal recurrences.
@@timd8912 No
You have, and you will, infinitely.
I believe that eerie feeling we call deja vu or that we’ve dreamt an experience before it happened, is perhaps just this. When Plato says we remember when we learn, he is saying we are waking up to things we already know but forgot.
Thank you for this!
Damn
"To love is neither to like or dislike, it is an altered state of consciousness". G. I. Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff and Ouspensky took it up from where Nietzsche left off. Took it to another level. In search of the miraculous indeed
Thank you so much. I am horrified of death but you just calmed me down with this lecture. Thank you 😭
I've been thinking about this thought for a long time and I didn't understandt it very well because I've never thought about "life" in itself and temporality and The human experience that way, until your videos opened my eyes to what's "Being and Time" all about and all I can say now I'm "a live" and I'm able to appreciate every moment of "life", Thank you very much Johannes.
This is my first time here on this channel, the show Dark on Netflix led me here, and I'm surprised and awakened by the clarity- almost felt like I have been initiated into something greater than me. Thank you so much!
Thank you most kindly as well!
Here’s a longer lecture on Nietzsche on nihilism, Amor Fati and the eternal recurrence ruclips.net/video/v-AlVKVKldk/видео.html
Y up I
this video is open in a tab, from the past few days...and have been rewatching to completely understand the translation of this idea....and every time I understand something new. Most ideas of this complexity get lost in translation. I think you did a really good job here Sir. Thank you
Jatin Nayyar thank you so much!
Brother that movie was a starting point for me I just discovered nietchtze? And amor fati I was ecstatic I had these thoughts but was able to flesh them out with this new info I thought I had come up with a new thing but it is as old as humanity!! Loved your video please don't stop !!!!
Chuck Davis thank you for your comment Chuck! And very glad you enjoy the video. Feel free to share it.
Glad that i find this Channel. Now and always.
A really fascinating interpretation of eternal return. I enjoyed the mention of Heidegger and agree that the eternal recurrence is interesting when considered in light of Heidegger's work on the imagination and time in his study of Kant. You seemed to allude to how a materialistic view of the person is nihilistic - I would have liked to hear more about that, most definitely! I really enjoyed the video, thank you.
Monkeyjuice thank you very much indeed for your polite and encouraging comment. Feel free to listen to this lecture of mine on nihilism and materialism ruclips.net/video/v-AlVKVKldk/видео.html
7:20 - 7:43
That was a very brave and very true statement. Well done.
wouldn't that mean that our life is like a movie and all we can do is watch? every action,every thought, every decision will happen automatic sort of ? if you know what i mean
Essentially yes. If you ever seen lost they start talking about time travel. They say that if you travel back in time you cannot change what happened. Even if you went back to change things, all you are going to do is what always happened.
Reliving my life, I try and change things. Sometimes I believe I had changed things. The things I believed to have changed just happened yet. By time I realized I haven't changed anything, the moment I believed to have changed passes me by. I miss my opportunity to have made that change.
You can say that's a part of the whole truth.
But for our philosopher here wants to challenge it, I believe the eternal return is not to say "we are coming back", as much as it is a call for change, an action ahead, and mainly an attempt to be more than just a "MAN"
I had this experience where i felt all of the versions of self spread across different realities and universes had aligned into one and i felt all experiences from all these versions of self. i was caught in a limbo state where all was existing at once. I felt that every wrong doing or experience i had, not just affected me on this plane of existence but the existence of all versions of self, like a connected web. i was shown that my choices not only effect this world but the next in this eternal cycle of life that is coexisting around me. much like my dreaming world where the bridge to these different realities exist from past and future, but hardly ever my waking present. i was shown the need to align all of self; imagine a row boat with 20 versions of self paddling. and ask yourself what direction you are going? circles? or a common direction?.
there was this feeling of oneness to everything, like every song and every bit of architecture or literature that has been, I had a part in creating. It did not feel like i was on a guided rail, but choice in fate truly does exist, but the ultimate goal will lead to the same place, which is the fate which i speak of. how we get there is up to the cosmic traveler..
My belief system sometimes feels contradictory to these philosophical views, from monism, to dualism and Amor Fati type philosophies, i feel they are all part of the same story, just told differently.
i hold a deep connection to all, and without this experience i had i would not be here in the first place. life is beautiful, the journey is chaos...beautiful chaos.
u do acid?
I got led to the idea of the eternal return by a video game, actually. I was playing the game Dragon's Dogma, and when I looked at one of the songs in the soundtrack, Eternal Return, I accidentaly stumbled onto the wiki page for Friedrich Nietzsche. After reading it, I noticed that the game itself seemed to be inspired by the concept, with the main character becoming a sort of superhuman (being called Arisen, as if he has ascended, even being called "Kakusha" in the Japanese release, which means "awakened one"), and a repeating story in the second playthrough with a twist at the end (if you are playing offline, that is), proving that your last playthrough has happened before the current one.
Thank you for the heart! I wasn't really expecting that.
Love this explanation, reminds me of Scruton's interpretation of eternal recurrence in the documentary "Of Beauty And Consolation".
I'm also reminded by these beautiful lines from the song "Better Than You" by Swans:
"Close your eyes, touch your mouth in the mirror
That's the wound that is made where the past meets the future"
And:
"And I can see clearly through this veil of reality
And I can remember the feel of your skin
No, you never knew me and you never will
When nothing's there, nothing is concealed"
Thanks for your videos, Johannes. You disclosed things that would have remained forever hidden had I stayed at university and continued with my bullshit "cultural studies" bachelor. All the best
Thank you very much! I look forward to reading more of your comments
Good video, can’t wait for me to watch it for infinite lives over!
Wonderful video! Deserves much recognition.
Ash thank you very much! Feel free to spread the word
@@JohannesNiederhauser
Sure. I loved every minute of it. I'm going to remain subscribed to you for a long time. Please make more videos. This video was truly enlightening
Ash Thank you so much for your kind words! Here’s another video I’ve made about Nietzsche, nihilism and amor fati ruclips.net/video/v-AlVKVKldk/видео.html
@@Ashley-mx6jk in fact you may subscribe to him an infinite amount of times over!
This addresses the conundrum of the fact that you exist now, but you did not before you were born, and you will not after you die. You always have existed, and you always will.
Thanks. To be even more precise perhaps: you will always have existed
Thanks for saying it...WE ARE LIVING IN NIHILISM...you have guts and dignity, you indeed offer a way forward...PHILOSOPHY!
Thank you so much! This was absolutely brilliant, completely on point. All that is missing is a few more words, a few more synonyms, that try to give some eidos or "shape" to these wordless, silent experiences of the innermost.
I love this! Thank you so much.
Thank you very much indeed!
Beautiful video. Thank you!
Thanks
You got a new subscriber. Great lecture!
Juan Andres Amaya Rojas Thank you very much indeed! There are several more videos on Nietzsche on my channel here
Facinating take.
Very good, thank you.
Great content ,thanks😍😍i'm new subscriber
Selma Bai welcome!
Hello and thank you for wonderfully explaining Amor Fati and the Eternal Recurrence :) I have a lot of questions, hopefully they won't burden you. I am just discovering philosophy with a more mature perspective than college or highschool and just now have began to truly savour this world.
I would like to know, if possible, what Ancient Stoic philosopher describes the concept of Amor Fati as such; or was it reffered this way by Nietzsche?
Is there a resemblance between Alea iacta est and the Eternal Recurrence? If the dice are already cast, is there a point in throwing them oncemore?
Could you please recommend a starting point in regards to the works of Nietzsche?
To apply the knowledge from your video: Thank you for your help or silence, since both can happen and one has already happened without yet manifesting. Can't wait to see the answer you already gave :)
Have a great day!
Thank you for your comment! In terms of the stoics Epictetus uses the term amor fati. Aurelius didn’t because he wrote in Greek. Note however that Nietzsche is not a stoic and not a slave like Epictetus. The amor fati of Nietzsche has a distinct “modern” meaning and a meaning that we shouldn’t compare with the stoics. This kind of baseless comparing of “theories” and “statements” is at the heart of the emptiness of our age. Amor fati means love of what is necessary and what is necessary is to accept tragedy in our lives, but in a distinct modern sense that all values must be transvalued. In terms of the eternal recurrence of the same the amor fati says that is the loving affirmation of the new heavy weight of humans. After the death of God the tragedy of being human fully sets in. On the other hand this possibility has always already been with us. Nietzsche by the way is also very clear what the result is if we do not properly respond to the challenge of this epoch, then a “total economic management is inevitably in store for us.” These are just some thoughts on the matter. But if there’s anything to take from this then to think “historically” means to think in terms of trajectories and consequences rather than influence and comparison.
I must admit, I am trying to escape the shallow thinking characteristic of our time. It was tragic to realise that my mind was asleep, but I gained a sense of integrity, purpose and inner peace when I started to battle my own ignorance. This is my Amor Fati :)
I am very grateful for your insight and the time you spent answering. Thank you for shedding some light!
Anais you’re welcome and thank you most kindly for your response! It is not upon me to tell you or anyone else what to do. Yet, if I may speak just about myself, then what I am learning is that we all must push into our most authentic possibilities as far as we can, because that will recur in every moment of our existence. And if we fail to push into our authentic possibilities and fall for the inauthentic fashions of the day then that will recur as well and it will recur forever and will forever be our existence. Accepting this heaviest weight of all is to silently sing the tune of amor fati.
Anais Eternal recurrence means exactly what it means, nothing can or will ever change, the universe must be infinite to exist but it can only recreate itself as is or you wouldn't be able to observe and experience space and time because you are time and space. You must come from your own memory to be your own memory and you must be your own history to come from your own history, history and memory are the same concepts because they are defined by being finite and can infinitely replicate themselves which is why time and space can be defined as finite so they must infinitely redefine themselves through each other.
That first quote from the Gay Science is fire. Hit me different this time because it's more relevant to my life now. Thanks for this. Also glad to find another Heideggerian out here. Keep it up.
Thanks! I just subscribed to your channel, too! Good stuff
I'd like to learn more about the Halcyon bird mentioned at 8:15, where can I read more about this? Is this Halcyon mentioned in Heidegger's or Neitzsche's works? Thank you for the video.
Question--if we are supposed to love what is about to happen, then why should we want to change it? Why would we want there to be a reversal? If we desire a reversal, then it would mean that we never truly loved the events that were about to happen. Could you expand on this? It seems like either we completely accept the events that are about to happen, OR we wish to reverse/change the events.
Great video
Time is the key to the dimension in which we exist, but do not master our being, thus remaining trapped at its doorstep, glancing inside every now and then.
There is a clear relation between Amor Fati, the acceptance of fate and the transformation of all, to the Vedanta philosophy too, in the central figure of Shiva, the destroyer illusions and the one who allows creation. Dyonisis, the bearer of life, joy, terror, and death, madness psychic cure and relief is also an archetype pointing to the direction that where life and fate reside is a nonlinear, non-orderly “place”.
Time is key to understanding, that if something has already happened, all events arise simultaneously, for there is no linear cause to events. Pratitya Samutpaya or inter-related origination illustrates this, but our time trapped minds and language have a very hard time thinking around this, precisely because of our language limitations. Maybe in the next civilization, the Chinese will do better.
P.s. The Arrival is a non-static movie. One of the best I watched in my whole life. Thanks for the great lecture and insights
Marcos Woortmann Thank you very much for your thoughts and wonderful comment!
Beautiful comment, thank you
I love your explanation. I will suggest though, that deep truths have layers of meaning, so instead of saying, so categorically, what eternal recurrence is not, to instead point out what it also is, or, what it is at a deeper level. It takes one to no one, my passion gets the best of me sometimes and I do the same thing! 😊
Thank you for the video, I hope you can make more content regarding stoicism
Thank you for your comment! Have you seen my podcast on Marc Aurelius?
Alma Ruth here’s a link to the podcast on Marc Aurelius ruclips.net/video/j0Dld8cx54o/видео.html
Alma Ruth here’s my newest video on Nietzsche ruclips.net/video/v2KLbYahKXE/видео.html
I’ll check it out, thank you for replying:)
Alma Ruth thank you. You’re welcome
I believe that, in a Heideggerian sense, love is the unconcealment of death as death. When I love you as a person, I experience the light of your concealment as concealment.
Love your accent. Do you agree then with Heidegger's view that Nietzsche was a metaphysician?
Indeed I do and Nietzsche himself is explicit about it when he says that he wants to invert Platonism.
Like, we're progressing so fast (technology...), and everyone want's a taste of it, but the planet cannot sustain it, so everything collapses and "here we go again" (the stone age, bronze age..).
I believe theres a movie that have something to do with this ideology can anyone recommend me some?
Thanks for your video!
In The immortal of Jorge Luis Borges the epigraph goes as follow:
Salomon saith. There is no new thing upon the earth.
So that as Plato had and imagination,
that all knowledge was but remembrance;
so Salomon giveth his sentence, that all novelty is but oblivion.
FRANCIS BACON: Essays LVIII.
At the end, it says "I shall be all men -I shall be dead."
Everything in the world is in a cycle so what is going it will repeat as same
I feel like I've been reliving this like for an eternity and I don't know when the ride stops or when it begins I just know I'm in it it doesn't seem I can't do anything but cry and beg and plead and pray that someday somehow I get out of this in a past reality I did have someone tell me I wasn't some sort of a purgatory and I'm not even Catholic
Woody Allen says this means he has to go to the Ice Follies with his aunt Zelda again
isn't that kindof like going back to Plato's block... thinking of timepace as a solid cube, and then, all we are experincing is that block, a moving image of soemthinh static. ..time is a moving image of eternity? its just another way of expressing it
? idk
I’ve never seen any of these TV shows mentioned in the comments. I had a near death experience, and began writing about memories I’m having and can not explain them because they have not happened yet. They are my memories, but in the future, I remember them vividly. Originally a baptist, I’ve come to believe we here on earth are stuck in purgatory because we didn’t get into heaven. Purgatory being the eternal reoccurrence of the same. Where my decisions are predestined and as much as I try to change them they still become true.
I would really love to know about these memories you wrote about and what led you to think we are in a purgatory and not some technology of certain beings that have trapped our consciousnesses here this realm of a movie ?
I would not be surprised if this reality is purgatory, we already fucked up. We each individually on this earth will die, and be reborn into the same exact life, reliving every single moment forever and ever for eternity, unable to change anything, unable to escape and unable to be certain either.
Although, sometimes something can happen that reminds for a split second that you are living this life over again for infinity.When you realize this is what is really going on, you immediately come out of it just as soon as you went in. I think that's the devil, playing with us, laughing at us, whispering to us a reminder of our condition, of our eternal torture.
It could be worse. And when I say that, I truly mean it. This idea might be wrong, and it could be far worse than we could ever possibly imagine.
As far as I can tell possible. This is purgatory, there is no escape.
@@zacharysweet1849 it will drive those who remembers insane one day, that's the logical conclusion
All these are the time manipulating technologies of the fourth kingdom, all the memories of the afterlife are technologies of the fourth kingdom and they have fed us with all sorts of lies to wear us out as prophesied, since this prophecy existed before all this in the book of Daniel, it means there is a Real God and Jesus it's just that we haven't seen them before yet
This is worse than purgatory because in purgatory at least one is sure of why they are there and what it is all about and that one day it will end
The Creator Of All Existences created time and space to be linear, if not there would not need to be a destruction to dinosaurs, everything will just need to fade away and repeat itself
Clearly this eternal recurrence phenomenon is artificial and is the technology of certain beings who have enslaved human beings and it was already in place during Nietzsche time
Quite an interesting interpretation. That makes sense to me only if one assumes the recycling of our elemental constituents upon death recombine in a form that has some linkage to the parent material source. Whereas, in reality, our constituent elements will be recycled into a myriad of other formats. Both living and inanimate.
I came across this term, Augenblick, in Heidegger on Nietzsche. Yes it was as I recall it a radical YES, an ACCEPTANCE. It was a kind of CONSOLATION, but of course without the conventional "God" and the conventional Judaeo-Christian "peace." Soon, we have entered an Oriental mindset, a Zen Moment. This kind of thing also comes up in Heidegger's book, "Early Greek Thinking." I now have a renewed respect for Heidegger's "Being and Time," with its new world, so to speak, its Dasein or pre-reflective awareness. So, I'm wondering. Do we find an intimation of this "experience" in Rousseau's Fifth Walk? Where the great French genius invites the reader into the "pure feeling of existence"? And let's not be afraid to use another word, and English word, GRATITUDE.
Are we stuck in this forever or is there ever an escape?
@Chin There is no soul
@@hakontorp390 what is the escape? I don't want any tricks I just want the truth
@@jesusistheonetruegod277i think there is no way to escape but maybe you should try buddism or other easter religions, these who try to escape the eternal cycle of life and death
quick question: what do you mean when you use the word ecstatically? Thank you
Juan Rodriguez watch this conversation with Justin Murphy ruclips.net/video/ooN1IL06jxc/видео.html
I have almost all my memories from the previous lives , anyone too ?
I have memories from past realities also
@@jesusistheonetruegod277 All these are the time manipulating technologies of the fourth kingdom, all the memories of the afterlife are technologies of the fourth kingdom and they have fed us with all sorts of lies to wear us out as prophesied, since this prophecy existed before all this in the book of Daniel, it means there is a Real God and Jesus it's just that we haven't seen them before yet
@@jesusistheonetruegod277 we need to pray unceasingly for ourselves that our sins are forgiven and this reliving, repeating and return comes to an end , this is what I was lead to believe after much prayer because only God can put an end to this
@@Ronson_Lau I asked God to forgive me of my sins all the time I beg him
@@jesusistheonetruegod277 I think we have to ask him to put an end to reliving, repeating and return too
One could say this is so for both deja vu and pre-cognition, which has scientifically verified.
Sounds fairly reasonable but it is unrelated. Both phenomena you mentioned are described as "brain farts" when your bran messes up long and short term memory leaving you thinking what you are seeing has already happened before. Anyways, I've come to find amor fati and eternal recurrence as effective ways to live an eventful life with no regrets as a deep thought experiment, that's just me tho.
@@gabopaz9693 I see, just don't see how one could use eternal return as meaning per any stretch... while knowing it's merely 'useful fiction.'
I once thought about giving up on being an Overman.
But then I decided that my name will go with me …. Amor Fati
Would there be time without size and space.
7:36 just because it's "sad" doesn't necessarily mean it's not true. strange way to attempt to invalidate an argument
I think certain beings were already conducting experiments on humans even as early as the late 1800s and Nietzsche was one of their subjects
These experiments are probably the reason why he lost his mental faculty later on in his life , eternal return probably begin around the 1800s not prior to that because no one spoke about eternal return until Nietzsche in the 1800s or the timeline of whoever spoke about eternal return first
Don't ask me the process or how it plays out because this is as far as I know
I can't stand the thought of losing my daughter on repeat forever though =(
Eternal Recurrence comes from the bible, the book called ECCLESIASTES
I just don't get this !
So like your tricking yourself into thinking that determinism is the best thing ever. Not that I’m saying you shouldn’t.
I feel like Amor Fati and Nihilism can coexist.
ZippoBoy ShaneShank Thank you for your comment! One could even go as far as saying that amor fati requires nihilism. It certainly doesn’t cancel out nihilism. Rather amor fati “sublates” nihilism, turns nihilism into something else. By the I’m giving a talk on Amor fati in London, if you’re around : www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/dead-philosophers-club-nietzsche-on-amor-fati-tickets-62150944147?
Lol!!! From a subjective standpoint, I'm not wasting my time... But from a cosmic objective standpoint, EVERYTHING IS A WASTE OF TIME!
Sadly, I'm stuck in the states, but if you record your Talk, I will definitely give it a watch!
ZippoBoy ShaneShank Thanks! I will either record the talk live or make a video of it after
I don't think we are supposed to dwell in nihilism. Almost like looking at the sun for too long. Good to be aware of but damages those who focus on it.
AMOR FATI = I'm a fatty *(In Scottish)*
Not wrong
Can someone confirm it’s only a philosophical theory not supported by science or as a possible absolute truth? Only the idea it can be true makes me have panic attacks
Time is relative to size
You could have said: read Heraclaitus
Are amor fati
Ahhhhhh
A 43-year-old man decides to create a 23-year-old persona in order to save his niece from potential dangers in the sex trade. Although, he didn't plan on his persona falling for her dark side. By the end of it, it is he who needed to learn from her how to face his past.
Watch DARK.
Paradoxically, Nietzsche's Eternal Recurrence if understood literally and not as a thought experiment, is on the one hand, historically in one's life a tempting idea, the idea that all the utopia of one's life is not forever lost, that one might be immortal by simply living the exact same life over and over again, it's almost an incomprehensible enigma, that infact lacks any scientific evidence, and also on the other hand, Nietzsche's Eternal Recurrence is the most nihilistic idea and limiting system ever conducted by a single individual. No one, in his right mind, would want the same things to happen again and again without any free will to choose to disconnect further recurrence, it's nihilistic because it only deals with a finite set of combinations which can bring you regressively not only into the good experiences, but also the suffering, either physical or mental, which only a sane person would reason he would never want. This is very debatable if Nietsczche's Eternal Recurrence is even worth talking about in today's modern world with advances of modern science which clearly deny its validity. If there was ever an eternity i would want, it would be an solipsistic one.
Jani You clearly don't understand eternal recurrence, it means everything you've written on this page you've written and believed infinitely after and infinitely before, god and science are infinite beliefs because you must first exist before you can believe in science and god or anything but what else could you be if you didn't have those infinite finite beliefs of set memory. You can't prove eternal recurrence because you are the eternal recurrence, you must be your own history to come from your own history and you must come from your own memory to be your own memory. You really don't see your own thoughts, the universe is solipsistic, we are the pieces of time recreating ourselves as the infinite finite universe(space), the universe could only be intelligent of self which means intelligence is an illusion because it never changes but that illusion becomes our infinite reality. The thought(blueprint) must recreate the thoughts(repetitive pattern of thinking) so that the thoughts can recreate the thought.
@@theuniques1199 No, solipsism has nothing to do with Nietszche's idea. I understand his idea pefectly well because i have been academically studying it for years. Your reply was condescending to say the least. But, let me just say this. His idea is false because the Universe is progressive and not regressive. I have pointed put all the other faults in his theory, as well.
@@janiuskokovic310 He claims his ideas are a way to overcome Nihilism. I think in this and his other works he does overcome it.
@@janiuskokovic310 You can't have a progressive concept without a regressive concept and vice versa, and I could think that by you saying academics that you're being condescending but yet you still need the opposite concept such as deferential. Good luck trying to prove something without the thought of disproving something and vice versa, the concept of neutrality couldn't and wouldn't exist unless existence was an eternal recurrence or/and recurrence eternal.
You are absolutely right , no sane person or being would ever want this !!!
You cannot define eternity using eternity.
I feel like it's all semantics, with all due respect. You say it's not "this" but all you do is elaborate on what you're saying that isn't.
I appreciate Nietzsche, but he never really took this conceot to its logical conclusion.
Like all philosophy, ultimately it comes down to two opinions - Parmenides or Heraclitus.
It's so weird how many Indian ideas were found again in German philosophy.
Lol. Kinda ironic, given the name of this video.
It would suck and a bit okay at the same time,seeing dead loveone's again but sucks to go through losing them again.. It would be cool if we relive it all like a hacker,not losing memory of our previous life..and having the courage to date the hot girls😂🤣😂🤣😂
Mate, that would be way too much information for your brain or you to even handle! Just imagine remembering every single thing or alot of shit that occurred to you! Would be useless and even pointless, as you can never go back to the past, so to speak. Yes, seeing your loved to then see them all die again would probably hurt me in an emotional way, but remember, and yes they will die over and over again, but remember they will be alive, so at least you get to see them and that should happen for an eternity. I'm thinking that we're stuck inside some type of computer as reality is all highly strange!
Thank you
Put on 1.5x thank me later
DARK is lame! And for children! WATCH TRUE DETECTIVE SEASON 1 FIRST!!! 🔥 ❤️ 🔥
They’re both amazing, I like Dark more than TDS1 because they both explore the eternal recurrence of the same but Dark doesn’t display the same pessimism even if the suffering is more dramatic
You babbled too much without explaining.
Yes!