The whole electrical situation is one reason I never jumped into this hobby. Back in the 90s before my folks split when I was 8 my dad had a huge layout. I forget the scale name, but it's the larger one with 3 rails (I was just in shock when I leanred real trains didn't have 3 rails 😂). Anyways I then learned about HO later in life and liked the idea, but the wiring and all that kinda kept me at bay. I'm now a programmer for a career so I'm sure I could learn it, but for whatever reason electrical work if any kind has always seemed so daunting to me. I taught myself how to build computers and do car repairs via YT so maybe I'm overblowing the whole thing. The 2nd thing is the whole scenery thing. I'm just amazed what some of you create and the craftsmanship it takes. I know for a fact my creative side of the brain is a lot weaker than my otherside snd Im also not the best crafter so that's my 2nd hangup. I would definitely want a layout with a lot of detail like this. Hell I saw one that a guy had cars driving around on it.....forget the one in Germany that has a fully functioning airport.
Miniature Wonderland is the german layout and that thing is phenomenal. the electrical work is a little tedious at times but it's not terrible. even 'programming' the decoders has been largely 'idiot proofed' in the computer programs available. I have one coming up shortly on installing sound decoders and sound files in a loco. Start small - get a starter set and a loop of track - if you get the bug - you'll collect more in no time. and the 3-rail trains are probably O gauge. nice trains, but they are HUGE!
Love the tech and versatility.... well worth the cost to me. Honestly, I'd get bored pretty quick going back to dc. I get the money side of it, but every hobby is expensive. Probably around 10k or so in my layout but that expense was incremental, over time.
agreed. there's no way i could essentially go backwards now. i punch the F2 function on non-sound locos out of habit when I'm operating over a crossing LOL! i think if you've never tried DCC - then you don't know what you're missing so it's easy to say "who needs that." once you have it, though, it's a game changer. with everything being expensive these days i am constantly surprised how upset people are with "hey, this little tiny moving computer is expensive!" there are less expensive options - but even those have a decent price tag now. social media is to blame a little - because everyone can now see these massive home layouts that are years and decades in the making and they want it all right now for themselves. it's like, no - slow down, start like the rest of us with an oval of track and then just start collecting until you get there.
Well as you were say DC or DCC choice is big deal. I have dcc at home and I also maintain a small DC N Scale coin operated one at the museum. It was donated by a local store when he shut the door permanently. The rolling stock though is mine and most of it is probably older than you. Im still trying to grasp DCC and you and utube have been a great help so thank you
DCC is a lot. Looking at it from a whole it's entirely too much but once you break it down and start with the command station, and then a single loco from there, you have a place to start and it's a little easier. There's some great resources online to find the answers you need - i've only ever stumped the internet once or twice.
Great discussion regarding DCC and DC. Older collections are tough to convert to DCC when you have so many HO Athearn Blue Box locomotives. Slowly it can be done. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas! Yes, there's a couple older models I have that couldn't be converted. To be honest, in the case of n scale, those models aren't worth upgrading, but HO is different and the quality of older HO is better than older N so it would probably be a lot more heart breaking to lose an older HO Athearn.
I like the comparison of dcc systems to buildings. Digitrax/NCE are ready built buildings and DCC-EX/others like that are like scratch built buildings. Not sure about NCE but Digitrax components are backwards compatible. So you can use a older command station/booster with the new system as a stand alone booster. There tech support is amazing. There decoders reasonable price. Also I have my system for the last 25 years and still going strong. When I got into DCC I was a member of a model train club that got into DCC and decided at the time Digitrax was the system for us. Also got a club discount when we bought the clubs and members systems together.
I can't speak to NCE equipment but I love my Digitrax stuff. I started off with their decoders but have since moved on to ESU for sound. Seems most users are either in the Digitrax or the NCE camp.
My layout is 25 years old. I have 20 DC locomotives that would need to be converted with decoders. I have 2 DCC locomotives and have converted part of the layout to run both systems. At the moment I’m happy with that. MRC DC transformers and NCE Power-cab. Interesting to know what model railroaders are thinking about this topic.
I was using MRC power packs before converting. Having both systems active on a layout makes me nervous. how do you ensure both can't be active at the same time or that the correct locomotives are on the correct side and don't cross?
Building your own command station with the DCC-EX system will save you some serious money. The DCC-EX system can also operate both DCC and DC locomotives. Honestly you don't need to be a tech wiz to build these systems, they make it pretty strait forward and easy. Appreciate your videos, your layout is pretty cool. Have a Great holiday.
How are they for programming CVs? Do you get a quick-setup feature or can you download one? Or are you using another software to program like JMRI or LokProgrammer?
DCC is ridiculious, in cost, as well as electronic malfunction headaches!🙄 I'm on my 3rd and final layout build. A module point to point, industrial switching layout. 18 3/4" inch wide 17 1/2' foot long. I seriously thought over DCC before this build. I decided to stay old school DC. Not just expense being the reason, but the depth of opr. involvment in DC. I like multi tasking. Flipping electric block toggels, controlling my Kato Soundbox, which by the way, on a small switching slow speed layout, the Kato Soundbox can capture calabrated sound effects with its controls provided. Don't be fooled in thinking you can't match sound with engine type, and speed with DC. Theres alot of DC gagets and systems that give the DC Hobbyists a bit of digital tech to enjoy. I like being engineer, dispatcher, signal controller, brakeman, and have complete control over every aspect of my layout. DC offers variety opr., its very difficult to become bord. Unlike DCC and a partly remote auto system doing almost everything for you. I get bord at the thought of just pushing a few buttons here and there, with DCC. The lighting effects and control is a small sacrafice for staying DC. I'll say DCC lighting effects control available with it, is a major pro with it. But DC can be rigged easily with button battery lighting systems, reed switches, and micro slide switches, easy to hide. You can get these items at many electronic companies. Unlike DCC, almost impossible to locate any malfunction issues due to digital electronics, the worse case with DC, is locating a bad wire or short. A heck of a less headache in my opinion.👌👍
@@glasswhisper5781 DC is a tried and true method of model train control and how I modeled for almost 20 years. It works. Now that I've been in DCC now for about 5 years, however, I have not found wiring of DCC troubling - in fact, it's easier. There's two wires, no block switches, and all the circuit breakers and auto-reversers are plug-and-play - usually two wires in and two wires out. The nice thing is those features are all automatic without having to mess with switches or toggles. If there's an issue, the circuit breaker tells me in which district so my search is limited to that area - it's better than chasing wires endlessly without direction. That allows me to focus on operating the train. Train operation is not automatic - though I suppose with computers you could make it that way. I operate my locos same as a DC power pack. Except they're speed matched and consisted. I like that I can add helper and DPU operation and can just cut them in without worrying about where the train is in a block to shut off a loco. Plus, it's nice to have a train in the hole with it's lights on low waiting for a manifest or hotshot intermodal to fly by. DCC gets more complicated when it comes to the actual decoder setup to get those cool features. But, manufacturers are getting better at making software that simplifies it like JMRI and LokProgrammer. After investing the time to learn and use DCC, I honestly can't imagine going back to DC only. I would miss the absolute freedom, control, and customization it provides. DC works, especially on an industrial switching layout point-to-point. On a multideck layout with long trains and steep grades with lots of set outs and pick ups, I couldn't imagine trying that in DC - or all the wiring. Again, it's all preference and both systems work - but DCC does have a hefty price tag. You've found a way to sort of meld the two.
Great video! I sure enjoy my NCE Power Cab converted with a SB5 and a WifiTrax WFD-31. Makes wireless super simple with no need for a PC or a certain brand of wireless throttle. I'm using the Power Cab, TCS-100, and cell phones to let grandkids operate trains. Like the sound and consisting that DCC offers.
This cell phone usage is really exciting people - but i absolutely hate my iPhone and how clumsy the touch is (like when texting) so i feel if I had a throttle on it the phone would be booted across the room. I really like the Digitrax Super Throttle - it easily programs, consists, and allows access to functions with a screen that's easy to see and read. I haven't tried any of the NCE products but it seems like most folks are either one or the other. I suppose they're the system titans for DCC.
@AlleghenyNorthern Yes I let the grandkids use my old phone so they don't chunk my Power Cab or the TCS-100 throttle LOL 🤪. Both of these thumb wheels are super good! I have used a tablet and put 6 throttles up at one time and see how many locos I can run without hitting each other bahahaha.
Hi C Mastracci , another good honest explanation on the subject of DC version DCC. To me DCC is easier . I no problem with wiring up the layout. I know it’s more expensive but I love the sound. It easy to expand and operate the layout. I do have one question how many locomotive addresses can you store in the Zephyr express and how do take an address out of the Zephyr express. Thanks for sharing. Have a good week. Merry Christmas. ! ! 😎😎 👍
the Zephyr Express can run 20 addresses simultaneously but store thousands - I think it's around 8 or 9 thousand. I admit, I know i have a locomotive problem so 9000 address is probably good LOL! DCC wiring is definitely easier - and complicated part in automation is usually just a couple wires in and out and the boards do the rest. I don't foresee me buying any locomotives that aren't already equipped with DCC and sound.
Most of my locomotives are cheap DC junk. I have modified one that was a good model with junk running gear. I bought a mallet that was already wired for DCC but set up to run on DC. I installed a DCC decoder so I could run it at my local train club. I only have DC at home right now and don't have a permanent layout. I will be modeling Simpson Railroad. The locomotives are mostly steam with 5 diesel electric. I will be putting DCC decoders in these new ones. Eventually I hope to build a layout with DCC.
DCC does add cost, and even having DCC, and not owning any DC anything at all, I am still considering DC as a possible future purchase, if a project called for it and would be simple enough for DC to make sense... Small loop or oval as a diorama of sorts, for railfanning...that's one thing I may do soon. For cost savings, I'm not after the most expensive, and train show bargains are nice too. I am also not needing sound on every locomotive, so if a cheap one with DCC and the right roadname or colors pops up, I'll definitely be open to those options to get more possible options for the GP engine models I am looking for. Some sound is enough for me. Digitrax didn't have the current throttles and nice interface when I got my DCC equipment, or I likely would have the Zephyr. I won't be surprised if I do someday have some Digitrax stuff. NCE, Digitrax, and now TCS are definitely options I consider to be great and would recommend to people, and for tech savvy folks, other options like DCC EX, Wifitrax, JMRI and whatnot are cool, I just prefer simple things, and a big throttle knob...lol For anyone that gets a train set with the Bachmann setup, the new one seems fine to me for certain circumstances... the same as a Kato DC starter set for some situations... but for anyone buying DCC separately I would recommend someone look at other DCC options. Something I've been thinking about lately, is the merit of simplified layouts , how much is enough. This comes from being limited in how much I can spend on train stuff, and thinking I might even scale back my future plans some after realizing track isn't necessarily expensive, it's the turnouts that are expensive. So, I'm thinking of simplifying my plans a bit and figuring out how to get similar/enough operations, but with fewer turnouts. Cost can be limited or reduced in a lot of ways to make this hobby more accessible to everyone. Cheers and Happy Holidays! Thanks for the videos!
They say money isn't everything - but it's really hard to do much without it. Hobbies really test that - because whatever hobby you have, there's an investment. I think sometimes folks forget model trains aren't toys, but rather scale miniatures; they're tiny little machines with a lot of tech rolling in them now. $250 for a locomotive is a lot and some may find it more cost effective to purchase the $100 locomotive. Both locomotives are still scale models and not toys. Yet, there are still toy locomotives you can get for $30 or $50 if that's what you can afford to get started. Having sound in all of the locos in a consist isn't necessary - completely agree. Making sure all the decoders are compatible for speed adjustment definitely is, though (like having LokSound and LokPilot together). I try to have at least the lead loco have full sound and light features (just looks better at grade crossings!) In two loco consists, I like both to have it, facing in opposite directions. More than two locos - I want the two end locos to have sound and lights. I'm with you. I want the throttle with the big control dials - it's why I like the Digitrax super throttles. Very easy to use. The Zephyr Express came on the market about when I started with DCC - I timed it accidentally perfect! I think the complexity of the railroad really depends on what you want to do with it. if trains rolling through scenery is more important than switching puzzles - simple trackwork is enough with a few sidings and maybe some industries. I've found that any time I try to add fancy or complete track geometry, that's typically where i have my operational problems!
So I've never heard of this Rail Pro so i turned to google. Looks like it's G and HO scale only but I'm intrigued by what they're doing. Sure has a steep price tag though.
@AlleghenyNorthern that's why I wish more makers adopted many features of rail pro. The easy of use, no need to speed match, locomotive communication, the trouble shoot features, I would think that many would adopt these things. For me I am a ho guy though if someone would come out with a CN SD60F in Nscale I would probably go to N scale lol
I hope you don't mind me mentioning another RUclipsr, but Jimmy at DIY and Digital Railroad's last video showcased a new DCC-EX system that is all-inclusive (if you already own a smartphone) and around a hundred bucks! It does have some limitations, but not many! For anyone looking to get into DCC, it would be the way to go-and it's wireless!
yeah he's big on the DCC-EX but again, that's building your own system and that's a whole new topic. i would caution new users as well especially because i doubt it will come with a quick set up like most starter sets do so you're learning CV calculations right out of the gate. if they make a quick-setup option available for easy programming - it could be a cost-effective starter. Better yet, I'm hoping their work brings the price of the premaunfactured components down due to competition.
I would be in almost all categories. LOL It would cost me over $2000 just to convert my locomotives, IF I could convert them all and that's after rewiring the entire layout and installing a DCC system. I love my Kato #6 power switching turnouts which allow me to switch between running different locomotives with a simple turnout throw. No computer programming needed. I run twin cab control DC with a single track mainline, so for the most part I am not into running a gazillion trains around loops at the same time. All my computer skills are tied up in higher end flight simulator hardware in the "flight room", I have no desire to have to rack my brain with more computer work when I want to relax in the train room. I don't really want/need the literal bells and whistles, although steady lights would be cool. LOL
I've Bought 2 Books on dcc wiring I simply don't understand it at all plus I have to many engines that are dc and would cost a fortune to convert I'm going to build a new layout with 3 main lines and run them from 3 separate power controller controllers
Well, before you give up the ship my suggestion would be to start small. When I converted, I had about 60 locos or so that needed converted. I didn't do sound, only drop-ins that replaced the light boards for about $30-40 each. I did a few whenever I spent modeling money. Every new piece I bought, I bought DCC equipped. Took a bit of time and I got through it faster than most, but in about six months most of the my locos were converted. The time to change them over was nothing with Digitrax's drop-ins. If you're like me - I can read a book and grasp a basic concept but I really need to see it, hold it, and do it to master it. The words I was reading didn't make sense until I had the decoders and the command station in front of me and could follow step by step while doing it. If time and funds allow, perhaps considering building your mainline and make two of them DC and one of them DCC. The conversion of a layout from DC to DCC is incredibly easy - so once you have enough locos update, you can easily switch over. Just make sure a DC loco can't roll onto the DCC section and vise versa. You don't want them to cross connect - even if it's momentary.
There are three price points, DC, DCC, and DCC w/ sound. Do not mislead with misinformation that DC and DCC are the same price as they're typically not. DCC only typically adds between $30 and $50 to the DC model and sound typically adds around $100-150 to the model depending on the speaker, keep alive, and decoder used. DCC and sound locos start around $120 with Bachmann Sound on Board models, $200 for BLI Paragon 4 if you're brave enough to trust BLI, and $250 for ScaleTrains. Steam locomotives may cost more because they're more complex. If your point was to say that sound makes locomotives more expensive, next time you purchase a car - see if adding more features increases the price of the vehicle.
DCC allows you to be very nit picky. You can customize everything from lighting effects, sound effects, and momentum effects. Set ranges for the throttle and simulate heavy hauling with an engine hold function that revs the sound without increasing the speed. DCC is extremely customizable and has pretty much everything for the discerning operator - in so much as the time is taken to set those things up.
it's not terribly hard to see how much more DCC offers than DC. DC runs the track, DCC actually lets you take control of the train. better is a matter of opinion depending on what you're trying to accomplish, however. In my opinion, DCC is far superior than DC. Having modeled in both, DC is extremely limited in capabilities and realism for lights and sound. If that type of operation isn't your thing - DC works fine.
@@brianberthold3118 So you know nothing about DCC. Tell you what, next time you post a video about DC trains let me know. I want to see you program your DC-only locos to have flashing ditch lights, speed match locos and run some DPUs or how about simulate manned helper service, run trains on the same track, in the same block, in opposite directions (valuable for switching and single line mainline with passing sidings). once you do that, I'll take you seriously.
DCC is the future of the hobby. It's why manufacturers are focusing heavy on making smaller decoders, smaller speakers, with improved functionality and sound quality. Even Kato, who has resisted DCC for as long as possible, has begun releasing their models in both DC and DCC and including TCS sound decoders in certain runs and not just as special releases. DCC will never replace DC entirely, there are still plenty of casual modelers and beginners who don't focus enough on operation to justify the investment in DCC.
@AlleghenyNorthern and the prices are the death of the hobby like any of us are stupid enough to buy an 8 year old kid a $300 engine so no kids get into the hubby anymore the dumb companies have just put a time clock on their own business they have about 50 years left of model railroading and then it'll be gone
@@brianberthold3118 if someone is buying a child a scale model instead of a toy train then yes, they're stupid. there's a reason large scale trains like O and G exist. It's the same reason starter sets exist in HO and N - they're toys meant for children and beginners before they purchase the scale model versions of the same locos. You buy a child a $5 box car at a train show, not a $45 ScaleTrains rivet counter scale model. however, having attended several train shows this year, the crowds have been increasingly younger with lots of kids as always but also young adults. if you think the hobby is dying, you're very much wrong. the number of new modelers starting youtube channels should be enough to show the growth in the hobby. if what the manufacturers were putting out wasn't what the market wanted - they'd have already changed. try buying a locomotive a few years after it's release. Lots of inexpensive models around and the premier models are sold out. Thankfully, we have pre-order options now so losing a new model run is a thing of the past.
@@brianberthold3118 at this point, i'm pretty sure this is just a troll because you're absolutely wrong. Not close, not an opinion - you're just wrong considering Bachmann, MicroTrains, Kato, and Tomix produce DC starter sets and Bachmann still has their toy-store level all-in-one sets. A two second google search would prove that. I don't know why you're so bitter but this channel is for serious modelers of all skills types and for those wanting to learn about the hobby. after the holidays, maybe take a trip to your local hobby shop and browse around a bit. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
The whole electrical situation is one reason I never jumped into this hobby. Back in the 90s before my folks split when I was 8 my dad had a huge layout. I forget the scale name, but it's the larger one with 3 rails (I was just in shock when I leanred real trains didn't have 3 rails 😂). Anyways I then learned about HO later in life and liked the idea, but the wiring and all that kinda kept me at bay. I'm now a programmer for a career so I'm sure I could learn it, but for whatever reason electrical work if any kind has always seemed so daunting to me. I taught myself how to build computers and do car repairs via YT so maybe I'm overblowing the whole thing. The 2nd thing is the whole scenery thing. I'm just amazed what some of you create and the craftsmanship it takes. I know for a fact my creative side of the brain is a lot weaker than my otherside snd Im also not the best crafter so that's my 2nd hangup. I would definitely want a layout with a lot of detail like this. Hell I saw one that a guy had cars driving around on it.....forget the one in Germany that has a fully functioning airport.
Miniature Wonderland is the german layout and that thing is phenomenal. the electrical work is a little tedious at times but it's not terrible. even 'programming' the decoders has been largely 'idiot proofed' in the computer programs available. I have one coming up shortly on installing sound decoders and sound files in a loco. Start small - get a starter set and a loop of track - if you get the bug - you'll collect more in no time. and the 3-rail trains are probably O gauge. nice trains, but they are HUGE!
Love the tech and versatility.... well worth the cost to me. Honestly, I'd get bored pretty quick going back to dc. I get the money side of it, but every hobby is expensive. Probably around 10k or so in my layout but that expense was incremental, over time.
agreed. there's no way i could essentially go backwards now. i punch the F2 function on non-sound locos out of habit when I'm operating over a crossing LOL! i think if you've never tried DCC - then you don't know what you're missing so it's easy to say "who needs that." once you have it, though, it's a game changer. with everything being expensive these days i am constantly surprised how upset people are with "hey, this little tiny moving computer is expensive!" there are less expensive options - but even those have a decent price tag now. social media is to blame a little - because everyone can now see these massive home layouts that are years and decades in the making and they want it all right now for themselves. it's like, no - slow down, start like the rest of us with an oval of track and then just start collecting until you get there.
Well as you were say DC or DCC choice is big deal. I have dcc at home and I also maintain a small DC N Scale coin operated one at the museum. It was donated by a local store when he shut the door permanently. The rolling stock though is mine and most of it is probably older than you. Im still trying to grasp DCC and you and utube have been a great help so thank you
DCC is a lot. Looking at it from a whole it's entirely too much but once you break it down and start with the command station, and then a single loco from there, you have a place to start and it's a little easier. There's some great resources online to find the answers you need - i've only ever stumped the internet once or twice.
@AlleghenyNorthern Yes Sir and lean on friends with experience and knowledge. Been a great help sofar.
Great discussion regarding DCC and DC. Older collections are tough to convert to DCC when you have so many HO Athearn Blue Box locomotives. Slowly it can be done. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas! Yes, there's a couple older models I have that couldn't be converted. To be honest, in the case of n scale, those models aren't worth upgrading, but HO is different and the quality of older HO is better than older N so it would probably be a lot more heart breaking to lose an older HO Athearn.
I like the comparison of dcc systems to buildings. Digitrax/NCE are ready built buildings and DCC-EX/others like that are like scratch built buildings. Not sure about NCE but Digitrax components are backwards compatible. So you can use a older command station/booster with the new system as a stand alone booster. There tech support is amazing. There decoders reasonable price. Also I have my system for the last 25 years and still going strong. When I got into DCC I was a member of a model train club that got into DCC and decided at the time Digitrax was the system for us. Also got a club discount when we bought the clubs and members systems together.
I can't speak to NCE equipment but I love my Digitrax stuff. I started off with their decoders but have since moved on to ESU for sound. Seems most users are either in the Digitrax or the NCE camp.
My layout is 25 years old. I have 20 DC locomotives that would need to be converted with decoders. I have 2 DCC locomotives and have converted part of the layout to run both systems. At the moment I’m happy with that. MRC DC transformers and NCE Power-cab. Interesting to know what model railroaders are thinking about this topic.
I was using MRC power packs before converting. Having both systems active on a layout makes me nervous. how do you ensure both can't be active at the same time or that the correct locomotives are on the correct side and don't cross?
No problem
Good advice 👍🏻 merry Christmas 🎄
Merry Christmas!
Building your own command station with the DCC-EX system will save you some serious money. The DCC-EX system can also operate both DCC and DC locomotives. Honestly you don't need to be a tech wiz to build these systems, they make it pretty strait forward and easy. Appreciate your videos, your layout is pretty cool. Have a Great holiday.
How are they for programming CVs? Do you get a quick-setup feature or can you download one? Or are you using another software to program like JMRI or LokProgrammer?
DCC is ridiculious, in cost, as well as electronic malfunction headaches!🙄 I'm on my 3rd and final layout build. A module point to point, industrial switching layout. 18 3/4" inch wide 17 1/2' foot long. I seriously thought over DCC before this build. I decided to stay old school DC. Not just expense being the reason, but the depth of opr. involvment in DC. I like multi tasking. Flipping electric block toggels, controlling my Kato Soundbox, which by the way, on a small switching slow speed layout, the Kato Soundbox can capture calabrated sound effects with its controls provided. Don't be fooled in thinking you can't match sound with engine type, and speed with DC. Theres alot of DC gagets and systems that give the DC Hobbyists a bit of digital tech to enjoy. I like being engineer, dispatcher, signal controller, brakeman, and have complete control over every aspect of my layout. DC offers variety opr., its very difficult to become bord. Unlike DCC and a partly remote auto system doing almost everything for you. I get bord at the thought of just pushing a few buttons here and there, with DCC. The lighting effects and control is a small sacrafice for staying DC. I'll say DCC lighting effects control available with it, is a major pro with it. But DC can be rigged easily with button battery lighting systems, reed switches, and micro slide switches, easy to hide. You can get these items at many electronic companies. Unlike DCC, almost impossible to locate any malfunction issues due to digital electronics, the worse case with DC, is locating a bad wire or short. A heck of a less headache in my opinion.👌👍
@@glasswhisper5781 DC is a tried and true method of model train control and how I modeled for almost 20 years. It works. Now that I've been in DCC now for about 5 years, however, I have not found wiring of DCC troubling - in fact, it's easier. There's two wires, no block switches, and all the circuit breakers and auto-reversers are plug-and-play - usually two wires in and two wires out. The nice thing is those features are all automatic without having to mess with switches or toggles. If there's an issue, the circuit breaker tells me in which district so my search is limited to that area - it's better than chasing wires endlessly without direction. That allows me to focus on operating the train. Train operation is not automatic - though I suppose with computers you could make it that way. I operate my locos same as a DC power pack. Except they're speed matched and consisted. I like that I can add helper and DPU operation and can just cut them in without worrying about where the train is in a block to shut off a loco. Plus, it's nice to have a train in the hole with it's lights on low waiting for a manifest or hotshot intermodal to fly by. DCC gets more complicated when it comes to the actual decoder setup to get those cool features. But, manufacturers are getting better at making software that simplifies it like JMRI and LokProgrammer. After investing the time to learn and use DCC, I honestly can't imagine going back to DC only. I would miss the absolute freedom, control, and customization it provides. DC works, especially on an industrial switching layout point-to-point. On a multideck layout with long trains and steep grades with lots of set outs and pick ups, I couldn't imagine trying that in DC - or all the wiring. Again, it's all preference and both systems work - but DCC does have a hefty price tag. You've found a way to sort of meld the two.
Great video! I sure enjoy my NCE Power Cab converted with a SB5 and a WifiTrax WFD-31. Makes wireless super simple with no need for a PC or a certain brand of wireless throttle. I'm using the Power Cab, TCS-100, and cell phones to let grandkids operate trains. Like the sound and consisting that DCC offers.
This cell phone usage is really exciting people - but i absolutely hate my iPhone and how clumsy the touch is (like when texting) so i feel if I had a throttle on it the phone would be booted across the room. I really like the Digitrax Super Throttle - it easily programs, consists, and allows access to functions with a screen that's easy to see and read. I haven't tried any of the NCE products but it seems like most folks are either one or the other. I suppose they're the system titans for DCC.
@AlleghenyNorthern Yes I let the grandkids use my old phone so they don't chunk my Power Cab or the TCS-100 throttle LOL 🤪. Both of these thumb wheels are super good! I have used a tablet and put 6 throttles up at one time and see how many locos I can run without hitting each other bahahaha.
Hi C Mastracci , another good honest explanation on the subject of DC version DCC. To me DCC is easier . I no problem with wiring up the layout. I know it’s more expensive but I love the sound. It easy to expand and operate the layout. I do have one question how many locomotive addresses can you store in the Zephyr express and how do take an address out of the Zephyr express. Thanks for sharing. Have a good week. Merry Christmas. ! ! 😎😎 👍
the Zephyr Express can run 20 addresses simultaneously but store thousands - I think it's around 8 or 9 thousand. I admit, I know i have a locomotive problem so 9000 address is probably good LOL! DCC wiring is definitely easier - and complicated part in automation is usually just a couple wires in and out and the boards do the rest. I don't foresee me buying any locomotives that aren't already equipped with DCC and sound.
@@AlleghenyNorthern I agree no locomotives that don’t already come equipped. 😎😎 👍
Most of my locomotives are cheap DC junk. I have modified one that was a good model with junk running gear. I bought a mallet that was already wired for DCC but set up to run on DC. I installed a DCC decoder so I could run it at my local train club. I only have DC at home right now and don't have a permanent layout. I will be modeling Simpson Railroad. The locomotives are mostly steam with 5 diesel electric. I will be putting DCC decoders in these new ones. Eventually I hope to build a layout with DCC.
DCC does add cost, and even having DCC, and not owning any DC anything at all, I am still considering DC as a possible future purchase, if a project called for it and would be simple enough for DC to make sense... Small loop or oval as a diorama of sorts, for railfanning...that's one thing I may do soon. For cost savings, I'm not after the most expensive, and train show bargains are nice too. I am also not needing sound on every locomotive, so if a cheap one with DCC and the right roadname or colors pops up, I'll definitely be open to those options to get more possible options for the GP engine models I am looking for. Some sound is enough for me.
Digitrax didn't have the current throttles and nice interface when I got my DCC equipment, or I likely would have the Zephyr. I won't be surprised if I do someday have some Digitrax stuff. NCE, Digitrax, and now TCS are definitely options I consider to be great and would recommend to people, and for tech savvy folks, other options like DCC EX, Wifitrax, JMRI and whatnot are cool, I just prefer simple things, and a big throttle knob...lol For anyone that gets a train set with the Bachmann setup, the new one seems fine to me for certain circumstances... the same as a Kato DC starter set for some situations... but for anyone buying DCC separately I would recommend someone look at other DCC options.
Something I've been thinking about lately, is the merit of simplified layouts , how much is enough. This comes from being limited in how much I can spend on train stuff, and thinking I might even scale back my future plans some after realizing track isn't necessarily expensive, it's the turnouts that are expensive. So, I'm thinking of simplifying my plans a bit and figuring out how to get similar/enough operations, but with fewer turnouts. Cost can be limited or reduced in a lot of ways to make this hobby more accessible to everyone.
Cheers and Happy Holidays! Thanks for the videos!
They say money isn't everything - but it's really hard to do much without it. Hobbies really test that - because whatever hobby you have, there's an investment. I think sometimes folks forget model trains aren't toys, but rather scale miniatures; they're tiny little machines with a lot of tech rolling in them now. $250 for a locomotive is a lot and some may find it more cost effective to purchase the $100 locomotive. Both locomotives are still scale models and not toys. Yet, there are still toy locomotives you can get for $30 or $50 if that's what you can afford to get started. Having sound in all of the locos in a consist isn't necessary - completely agree. Making sure all the decoders are compatible for speed adjustment definitely is, though (like having LokSound and LokPilot together). I try to have at least the lead loco have full sound and light features (just looks better at grade crossings!) In two loco consists, I like both to have it, facing in opposite directions. More than two locos - I want the two end locos to have sound and lights.
I'm with you. I want the throttle with the big control dials - it's why I like the Digitrax super throttles. Very easy to use. The Zephyr Express came on the market about when I started with DCC - I timed it accidentally perfect!
I think the complexity of the railroad really depends on what you want to do with it. if trains rolling through scenery is more important than switching puzzles - simple trackwork is enough with a few sidings and maybe some industries. I've found that any time I try to add fancy or complete track geometry, that's typically where i have my operational problems!
Thats why i like the railpro system. All the benefits of dcc but super super simple
So I've never heard of this Rail Pro so i turned to google. Looks like it's G and HO scale only but I'm intrigued by what they're doing. Sure has a steep price tag though.
@AlleghenyNorthern that's why I wish more makers adopted many features of rail pro. The easy of use, no need to speed match, locomotive communication, the trouble shoot features, I would think that many would adopt these things. For me I am a ho guy though if someone would come out with a CN SD60F in Nscale I would probably go to N scale lol
I hope you don't mind me mentioning another RUclipsr, but Jimmy at DIY and Digital Railroad's last video showcased a new DCC-EX system that is all-inclusive (if you already own a smartphone) and around a hundred bucks! It does have some limitations, but not many! For anyone looking to get into DCC, it would be the way to go-and it's wireless!
yeah he's big on the DCC-EX but again, that's building your own system and that's a whole new topic. i would caution new users as well especially because i doubt it will come with a quick set up like most starter sets do so you're learning CV calculations right out of the gate. if they make a quick-setup option available for easy programming - it could be a cost-effective starter. Better yet, I'm hoping their work brings the price of the premaunfactured components down due to competition.
I just wish railpro had a n scale option. I use it for my g scale trains and love it. I wish I could use it on my n scale
I would be in almost all categories. LOL It would cost me over $2000 just to convert my locomotives, IF I could convert them all and that's after rewiring the entire layout and installing a DCC system.
I love my Kato #6 power switching turnouts which allow me to switch between running different locomotives with a simple turnout throw. No computer programming needed. I run twin cab control DC with a single track mainline, so for the most part I am not into running a gazillion trains around loops at the same time.
All my computer skills are tied up in higher end flight simulator hardware in the "flight room", I have no desire to have to rack my brain with more computer work when I want to relax in the train room.
I don't really want/need the literal bells and whistles, although steady lights would be cool. LOL
I've Bought 2 Books on dcc wiring I simply don't understand it at all plus I have to many engines that are dc and would cost a fortune to convert I'm going to build a new layout with 3 main lines and run them from 3 separate power controller controllers
Well, before you give up the ship my suggestion would be to start small. When I converted, I had about 60 locos or so that needed converted. I didn't do sound, only drop-ins that replaced the light boards for about $30-40 each. I did a few whenever I spent modeling money. Every new piece I bought, I bought DCC equipped. Took a bit of time and I got through it faster than most, but in about six months most of the my locos were converted. The time to change them over was nothing with Digitrax's drop-ins. If you're like me - I can read a book and grasp a basic concept but I really need to see it, hold it, and do it to master it. The words I was reading didn't make sense until I had the decoders and the command station in front of me and could follow step by step while doing it. If time and funds allow, perhaps considering building your mainline and make two of them DC and one of them DCC. The conversion of a layout from DC to DCC is incredibly easy - so once you have enough locos update, you can easily switch over. Just make sure a DC loco can't roll onto the DCC section and vise versa. You don't want them to cross connect - even if it's momentary.
The Issue on that Topic is This You Get If You Want your Call.
DC loco 50.00 same loco in DCC 50.00 same loco in DCC sound 300.00
There are three price points, DC, DCC, and DCC w/ sound. Do not mislead with misinformation that DC and DCC are the same price as they're typically not. DCC only typically adds between $30 and $50 to the DC model and sound typically adds around $100-150 to the model depending on the speaker, keep alive, and decoder used. DCC and sound locos start around $120 with Bachmann Sound on Board models, $200 for BLI Paragon 4 if you're brave enough to trust BLI, and $250 for ScaleTrains. Steam locomotives may cost more because they're more complex. If your point was to say that sound makes locomotives more expensive, next time you purchase a car - see if adding more features increases the price of the vehicle.
If you want and Want to get Nit Picky good Luck On Dcc.
DCC allows you to be very nit picky. You can customize everything from lighting effects, sound effects, and momentum effects. Set ranges for the throttle and simulate heavy hauling with an engine hold function that revs the sound without increasing the speed. DCC is extremely customizable and has pretty much everything for the discerning operator - in so much as the time is taken to set those things up.
Any one else catch the dinosaur?
ha! Rexy is very popular. i'm usually notified by someone if she doesn't make an appearance.
have to love how many lie he said trying to make DCC sound better then DC
it's not terribly hard to see how much more DCC offers than DC. DC runs the track, DCC actually lets you take control of the train. better is a matter of opinion depending on what you're trying to accomplish, however. In my opinion, DCC is far superior than DC. Having modeled in both, DC is extremely limited in capabilities and realism for lights and sound. If that type of operation isn't your thing - DC works fine.
@@AlleghenyNorthern what can you do with DCC you cant do with DC .. NOTHING
@@brianberthold3118 So you know nothing about DCC. Tell you what, next time you post a video about DC trains let me know. I want to see you program your DC-only locos to have flashing ditch lights, speed match locos and run some DPUs or how about simulate manned helper service, run trains on the same track, in the same block, in opposite directions (valuable for switching and single line mainline with passing sidings). once you do that, I'll take you seriously.
DCC sucks its what killed/killing the hobby
DCC is the future of the hobby. It's why manufacturers are focusing heavy on making smaller decoders, smaller speakers, with improved functionality and sound quality. Even Kato, who has resisted DCC for as long as possible, has begun releasing their models in both DC and DCC and including TCS sound decoders in certain runs and not just as special releases. DCC will never replace DC entirely, there are still plenty of casual modelers and beginners who don't focus enough on operation to justify the investment in DCC.
@AlleghenyNorthern and the prices are the death of the hobby like any of us are stupid enough to buy an 8 year old kid a $300 engine so no kids get into the hubby anymore the dumb companies have just put a time clock on their own business they have about 50 years left of model railroading and then it'll be gone
@@brianberthold3118 if someone is buying a child a scale model instead of a toy train then yes, they're stupid. there's a reason large scale trains like O and G exist. It's the same reason starter sets exist in HO and N - they're toys meant for children and beginners before they purchase the scale model versions of the same locos. You buy a child a $5 box car at a train show, not a $45 ScaleTrains rivet counter scale model. however, having attended several train shows this year, the crowds have been increasingly younger with lots of kids as always but also young adults. if you think the hobby is dying, you're very much wrong. the number of new modelers starting youtube channels should be enough to show the growth in the hobby. if what the manufacturers were putting out wasn't what the market wanted - they'd have already changed. try buying a locomotive a few years after it's release. Lots of inexpensive models around and the premier models are sold out. Thankfully, we have pre-order options now so losing a new model run is a thing of the past.
@AlleghenyNorthern no one makes a toy trains as you call them anymore they all make that DCC crap
@@brianberthold3118 at this point, i'm pretty sure this is just a troll because you're absolutely wrong. Not close, not an opinion - you're just wrong considering Bachmann, MicroTrains, Kato, and Tomix produce DC starter sets and Bachmann still has their toy-store level all-in-one sets. A two second google search would prove that. I don't know why you're so bitter but this channel is for serious modelers of all skills types and for those wanting to learn about the hobby. after the holidays, maybe take a trip to your local hobby shop and browse around a bit. Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!