The Toyota GT86: The Sports Car We Deserve? (JDM Legends Tour Pt. 11)
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- For years, car journalists were crying out for an "old school" sports car - modest power, modest grip, light weight and rear wheel drive. In conjunction with Subaru, Toyota built it in the form of the GT86. But in the UK at least, it did not seem to sell in the numbers predicted. Most people complained the finished product lacked finesse - but why did it not sell, and should it have done better?
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I'm pausing thus at 4:29 to comment.
In my opinion, 200-250 bhp is plenty...people pining for more power outta the GT-86 from the factory, don't understand what this car is about.
If Toyota, or Subaru were to turbo the car, yes it'd make more power, but lag and boost thresholds would upset the balance of the cars characteristics.
It'd also add to the cost of the car, and the extra 25 or 30 horses seen from anemic factory turbo's still wouldn't be enough power to "justify" the now increased price. People would still bauck about the performance and it "not having enough power" to justify the now $30k+ sticker price for the turbo option they wanted.
This car is a rolling museum of historical Toyota references most people can't/don't appreciate.
1. The boxer engine is a direct homage to the two-cylinder boxer engine of the Sports 800, Yota's first ever "sports car"
2. The dimensions of the side windows are identical to the Toyota 2000GT, a legitimate Japanese "hyper car" of its day, that was a multi-million dollar car in the 60's
3. The DS-4 fuel injection system is the evolution and reflection of the T-VIS found on the 4A-GE engine in the original AE86
4. The torque curve everyone whines about in the GT-86 is a result of the induction system, and mirrors the same torque dip found in the 4A-GE compliments of the T-VIS system
5. The 57:43 weight distribution is identical to that of the AE86 Corolla
This car was a "skunk works" project...it was developed behind Toyota board's back, this car's very existence is something special.
I don't think many people grasp how much heart was put into the GT-86, I don't own one, but want one terribly....
It dismays me to see how Toyota listened to what people wanted, and a lot of people feel it isn't "good enough".
I'm however one of those corny "romantic" enthusiasts who appreciates a vehicle for more than what's on the surface.
There are cars that are harbingers of new era's of automotive advancement, and cars that become icons, and cars like the GT-86, they're symbols and recognition of what once was, and the embodiment of a longing to get back there...a flesh-and-blood flashback if you will, that to me is why they can be so special.
It shows me that I as an enthusiast am not alone, and that companies can express the same longing I can.
I know it sounds absolutely crazy to say that, but I hope they continue production for a good long while, and I hope people will come to appreciate this thing for what it represents...not just what it is.
The great news, this is one of those cars most people WILL be afford to buy - they are a great deal second hand
@Johnny Keller- another you tube review said weight distribution is 53:47
No one on this planet has said it better. Thanks for sharing the wise words, and showing the facts to the world
Well said Johnny! Actually i didn't fall in love with my first gen UK GT86. I could appreciate there was an amazing handling car underneath but it was setup for me with too much of a loose rear end and the damping wasn't great.
Last month i picked up a 2019 BRZ and i have finally fallen in love with this platform. The car is much more planted and neutral and the damping is so much better! They seemed to have tweaked the steering too and feels heavier. I've had many a hot hatch and apart from a Clio Willaims which was a fantastic drivers hatch, people just don't get a true drivers car the Brz/86 is. It has feel and touch, balance where imo a fwd platform will never replicate...
My proposal early on was not to give it more power, but to give it stronger, forged, internals. Therefore the buyer can safely modify to a pretty realizable and reasonable amount. Or if not, let it run till it dies.
This car was the one that totally changed how I thought about cars. I hated my 135i after a test drive.
Did you get that feeling that you've been driving inadequate sofas instead of cars all your life too?
haha. kinda. i thought my bmw was small. I realized it wasn't. felt heavy and numb after.
Bmws are definetly more about comfort. While remaining tight (referring to our blue m240i) but the brz is raw.
As a 32 year old with a Corsa, this is my next car for sure, I grew up with the older MR2, Supra, Celica a Honda s2000 and it's nice to see a car like this again
Did you get one?
I love my 86. In over 20 years of driving no car has made me smile as much, even the ones I've had with more power.
Gt86 feel amazing indeed have you driven an mx5 platform? Not so good ride as gt86 but great fun as well!
Totally agree with you, the way a sports car feels is completely different to a hatch back. Even if it is slower than a fast hatchback on track, I think the sports car driver is having more fun.
TBH AFAIK it's a success in North America and Japan, and even in China where these kinds of cars are very niche there's a strong following. From talking to people around me, I feel many young self-acclaimed 'petrol heads' in the UK nowadays are far more interested in figures on paper and premium badges (people here seem to equate 'German car' to 'premium' to 'done well in life'). The state of insurance here means most of them only had a taste of hatches in their 20s, and all they'd imagine about a 'fun car' is 'more power' as these kinds of stuff they drive ATM are so gutless. The state of car prices here as well as the PCP culture, the peer pressure, means by the time they could afford something more expensive, all they'd want is something with a posher badge, such as an Audi or BMW, and conclude they are the 'most fun' ever (of course they are compared to their previous cars). That means cars like GT86 will never ever be considered or tried, so how could they know what they've never experienced? One of my colleagues driving a Seat Ibiza laughs at me as he believes all old cars are rubbish and unreliable, and that only German 'sports cars' are worth looking at... That's said I'm also glad about this, as this means GT86 here still are relatively affordable (uninflated), and are not as commonly trashed as some of the other cars.
Nevertheless, writing this as the sequel of Initial D is coming soon (MF Ghost), and from the trailers the GT86 will have a good amount of role - let's see if it will make me buy one.
I think the real big problem with the GT86 and perhaps why it didn't sell so well in the UK. Is the UK has a strong hot hatch culture. Hot hatch's with huge amounts of bhp and torque. Which in some cases can be had for less money and 99% of them being turbocharged they tune up easily for very little money. (Am not saying all of them but generally)
The other issue is absolutely the brand. If someone wanted to spend that much money they may be torn to buy a brand with a more "premium" badge, because hey my 320d m sport will get the neighbours talking.
I've often looked at the depreciation of them too and they are dropping at a steady rate of knots. No question they are fabulous cars and they cater to the "drivers type car" evidently there is more "hot hatch hooners" and "320d coupes with a m sport badge on the boot fans"
Shame.
Very true
Agree there. I'm 20 so would like to experience living with a fast car later in life. As you said you can get big horsepower gains from a turbo car. My 1.6 turbo diesel fiesta for example can get a 30hp increase from a map. A naturally aspirated car probably 5-10hp. I'm not sure but you probably get better mpg from a turbo car if your driving carefully. Was looking at the GT86 stats and it's not bad, 7.6 secs to 60mph, £250 tax and claimed 44mpg.
I'm personally starting to like the audi TTS. 5.2 seconds to 60mph, tax is just £250 and its claimed 47mpg. Its a lot faster but as cheap to run as the Toyota. Only thing I've noticed you can get a newer GT86 from 2012 - 2014 for the same price as a TTS from 2008 to 2012 with similar mileage.
The first two points were put across in the video
People look at 0-62 times and use that to judge if a car is quick. But all that tell you is roughly how quickly you can pull away from traffic lights.
Though the 7.6 figure on the gt86 is comically understated so don't let that put you off. Toyota have a bit of a habit of doing that, they did it with the Supras as well. The 86 has a similar power to weight as the Fiesta ST, you just need to rev it a lot higher which takes getting used to if your used to driving turbos.
But drive it and you see what it's about. The handling is perfect, it's comfortable on UK roads (amazingly for a sports car), looks good, easy to work on and mod, you can drift it at 15mph yet it corners like it's one rails. It's just....nice.
Zain K You cant compare the TT with an 86.
First the TT has quattro thus the better acceleration.
If you want a car to drive with a lot of involvement get the 86... If you want a snob car get the TT
And the TT is heavier... And when Something fails its Audi prices.
I bought one new in ‘13 and I absolutely love it! I wanted something small, light RWD, with a retro-simplicity to it. I’ve done nearly 100k hard miles thus far and have had ZERO problems beyond normal wear parts. When the pads wore I continually replaced them with better, more track worthy bits; braided steel lines; lots of fresh Motul n the diff, gearbox and hydraulics; Mobil in the motor....a set of adjustable Teins all around and a track, muffler “delete” pipe (saving lots of weight) for more sound. At 75k miles I replaced the failed throwout bearing and put in a fresh clutch with lighter flywheel. I cannot even remember how many and what kinds of tires I’ve run through the car...lots! I’ve been thinking about getting a new toy, but honestly, without spending $60k I don’t think there’s anything I want which would give me what this car does. I drive it flat out everywhere and it’s a blast. My wife just put a deposit on a ‘19 Type R and my son has a Mark 7 GTI, so I have access to just about driving need in my garage. Great cars, these 86’s, damn shame auto-journalists don’t appreciate them more, damn shame. I’ll bet that in 10-15 years we will look back very fondly on these lightweight, small, great handling cars.
Thanks for getting it, for understanding the car, so few “auto-journalists” seem to. As a pure driving or drivers car, nothing compares at this price, nothing comes close outside of the Miata, but I don’t do convertible cars. So, there is this car and then the Porsche GT3, or Cayman.
Here in Canada, you can get a Mustang GT for almost the same price as a GT-86. If you went with the Ecoboost, you'd be in it for less than a GT-86 and still have more car. Toyota should be selling this car for half what they are.
Alfred Neuman good points, cars have just gotten so....large. The Mustang is such a big car by comparison to the 86’s, that puts it out of contention for me. The first things I look at are weight and actual physical size; Size and weight are my number one factors in choosing a sports car.
Alfred Neuman thats because we live next to the US with factories in our country, this car isnt produced that close
@@That_AMC_Guy To achieve that, Toyota would have to lower their QC standards and build it as crappily as the Mustang.
@@andycalifornia426 Well, my crappy Mustang will still toast your quality Toyota any day. So.... there's that.
Great review. Thank you for understanding the car for what it is!
My pleasure
People who say this car is a failure are wrong. These cars are very popular and in 20 years they'll be the equivalent of the old S chassis
it is a failure. Boxer engines have a lower % of followers. Torque is what makes a car feel fast and with only 156 tq and 200 hp, its like a high rev honda engine, you have to rev the shit out of it to get power.
When you come with an engine that puts out a SYMMETRICAL power band, it feels faster. When i punch the gas pedal, i want it to MOVE ... Not have to wait for it to get to 7k or 8k to feel the power.
@@ACommenterOnRUclips you do know that for a NA 2.0L that's actually really good right? The Honda s2000 made about the same torque on a 2.4L.
Your power band is all about the tune. It's tuned like shit for emissions reasons, which has been a problem for the old EJs as well in the past
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 its a failure... if you like it, go buy it.
@@ACommenterOnRUclips I have one
@@invertedv12powerhouse77 i like the way they look, they just dont have the power i want. I test drove all 3 and they had nothing. I enjoy the power and spool of a turbo engine. Not to mention it has s boxer engine which i am not a fan of. As i said before, na or turbo, 200 hp from a 4 cyl in 2020 is pathetic, considering that my 2.4L put down 202 rwhp and 175 rwtq back in 2003 after serious mods and passing emissions ...
Great wee car. Get over the fact it has 200bhp but rwd, very balanced, great seating position, gearbox and above all FUN.
Yup, got a second gen, completely stock, brz, I could not be
happier with it
I have just bought myself a new BRZ TS (the top spec Subaru version of the reviewed car). I have had it about a month. Without a doubt it is the most fun I have had on four wheels (I'm in my mid 50s). Brilliant car. It has plenty of power if you keep the engine on the boil: it's a bit like riding a two stroke motorcycle from that point of view. Third gear gets you to about 110 km/hr. Punting along a tight windy road where you can take fairly tight corners at about 80 km/hr accelerate to 100 before braking for the next corner has me with a continual grin on my face. Revs swinging from say 5500 to 7000 rpm. The TS version has brilliant sticky tyres as standard and it goes round corners faster than I thought possible for a road car. Absolutely, plenty of power. Doesn't need a turbo. Doesn't need a supercharger. No reason to add weight and potentially upset the perfect balance of this car. I say it again. Brilliant car. Thanks Subaru. Thanks Toyota. So pleased those companies teamed up to make this car.
I own one and i love it wholeheartedly! :D
I absolutely love mine. I love the quality. It revs great. It handles brilliantly. It's light weight and so much fun.
I understand that on paper it doesn't look great... But it's all about the drive.
Turbocharged ? No, thanks !
I bought that car ( Subaru BRZ) because it was NOT turbocharged. As an old Porsche for example.
Maybe i'm getting old.. But I'm more and more agreeing with something James May once said on topgear. (I believe when he tested the Panda..)
The sensation of speed is much more important than actual speed. You're not allowed to drive very fast anywhere anyways.. Might aswell make the legal limit entertaining.
Hes right
I've owned a lot of sports cars in the last 10 years, including 3 Porsche's, an M3, an RX8, etc etc and I currently own an FRS. It's one of my favorite cars to drive despite the lack of power. The handling is amazing and you can really wake up the car with a few basic mods. The only major downside is the lack of a good sound when you rev it out. This is a car for drivers, and it rewards you for pushing it to the limit in the corners. I can't get enough of it.
How would you compare it the rx8?
@@tobythomas5079 The FRS is superior to the RX8 in most ways. It's got better handling, better fuel economy, and it's far more reliable (it also takes well to mods compared to the RX8). The main reason to own an RX8 is because you love rotary engines and you don't mind all the extra maintenance / costs associated with keeping the car running.
The best way to get into an RX8 these days is to find a car with a good chassis and a blown motor, then have the motor rebuilt so you're starting with a fresh engine. Expect to pay more than $5000 for a *proper* rebuild.
I believe good examples of the RX8 (the few that are left) will become collectors cars in the future, so that's why I bought another RX8 recently and spent the last year fixing and restoring it, which included a professionally rebuilt motor from a reputable rotary engine builder. Even though the FRS is superior to it (at least on paper), I find myself driving the RX8 more frequently because I love the rotary motor, unique driving dynamics, and the interior is a much nicer place to be. It's a blast to rev the engine to 9krpm. Not many other cars offer the same experience.
If you're willing to spend some extra time and money, the RX8 can be rewarding. However, I don't recommend it for most people because they don't understand what they're getting into, and can't afford to keep the RX8 on the road. The FRS offers a great value with Porsche like driving dynamics so that's my recommendation for most people. I've owned 4 Porsches in the last 5 years, and yet here I am with an FRS in my garage next to a Cayman (and previously a 911). That says something. The FRS is a worthy sports car and probably the best value out there.
I've had 3 rx8s so I know what you're talking about. How would you compare the driving dynamics with the rx8?
I always tilt my hat whenever I pass one of these on the road, a real head turner.
i always drop my head with disgust, boxer engine and only 200 hp .... so SAD while i'm passing them or crossing them in my 14 Genesis Coupe 2.0T with 305 rwhp.
Don't get me wrong, they look nice, they just have the wrong engine and no power for my taste
@@ACommenterOnRUclips believe me, when youve driven one of these in mountains nothing else can beat you.
@@xXxUrbanNinjaxXx i dont live by the mountains, dont plan to live by the mountains, dont plan to drive in the mountains ... i am sure it CAN be beaten..
You Tube oh yeah for sure. If that’s the case this car serves no purpose for you. I think the cars cheap price second hand kinda shows it’s very specific use case. For me it fills it perfectly, and beating cars worth double the price Makes this car so worth it. I live in Washington with lots of mountains so it’s price is worth more over here.
@@xXxUrbanNinjaxXx that car is worthless to me. Boxer engines are NOT my taste & its only 200 hp and no turbo.
The ONLY thing about this car that is nice is when its dropped with nice wheels .. otherwise i have no use for it.
Here in Australia they are called a Toyota 86 (Eighty Six) or a Subaru BRZ (B R Zed). I've mostly always driven large 6 cylinder Australian cars and (as good as they are in their own right) I recently bought a BRZ and have fallen in love with it.
I just found out that I’m Japan it’s actually called the “Eight Six”. Cool little fact
The best review ever of this car. Well played fella.
Not sure if this has been said already in comments, but I'm quite confident that the key reason it didn't sell well in the UK is lack of competitive lease deals. The ~300bhp hot hatches that are dominating our roads now can mostly be had for £300/month and I've not seen a GT86/BRZ deal come close to that, despite having lower sticker prices than the Leons, Golfs, etc. I personally love the GT86 formula, and I can see us picking one up in the next few years when the current facelifted ones (much nicer interior) start floating around on the used market.
UK doesnt appreciate NA RWD sports car for driving pleasure, technical driving skill, potential for drifting fun. Rather, they want hot hatch, turbo so increase HP. That being said, here in America, I love the GT86, and so many friends of mine have it !! I plan on getting one soon as a secondary car. Right now, I need my daily driver LEXUS IS 4door TURBO
Why did you have to tell us what your daily was? Also why did you put it IN CAPITALS like it’s an amazing car?
An IS is a boring average pos that can be bought for a couple hundred euro over here so putting it in capitals like it’s badass is fucking cringeworthy.
Like you say, they seem to have done pretty well in USA, see plenty of them around in the SF Bay Area.
Andrew Austerfield Yeah, they rule the roads in California. Muscle cars and 86 Triplets everywhere.
This car turns a quick drive to the corner store into a 3/4 hour blast down the twisties outside of town.
Haha! this is so true. It takes me much longer to get to the shops that it used to.
Toyota have succeeded with this car, pity the public doesn't quite get it, interesting watchable review again - your efforts are well received, oh and its just the right length of video despite a comment to the contrary I saw.
The car is faster than the best model IROC-Z with 350 cc engine and TPI and 5 speed. Yet, people bitch about the speed. It is faster than most of the corvettes of the 60's. It also has a very potent sub 3200 rpm torque for city driving without having to keep rpm's high. new BRZ GT86 5 more horse and torque is also geared better and tweaked just right.
First time i saw this car was almost 2 years ago on the motorway when i was doing a 3 months field work job travelling up and down the UK. I thought hmmm... that looks nice, its a Toyota but what model. I went on google and typed in Toyota sports car looool and the gt86 popped up and going by the look i was like 'yep, thats the one'. Ever since then ive been doing my homework and its a must i need one.
Got the privilege of seeing one parked next to me the other day at Lidle car park. Soon getting a par rise at work and when that happens its a wrapnim getting one of these cars.
Very neat honest review. My partner and I love the GT86 so much we bought one each. You should come and join us at the Japanese sprint series to see how the various mods compare through the different classes of GT86 and potentially organise a drive for you. We even have a couple of Lotus turn up to give us a challenge.
Nice review, and what a REAL drivers car, as you said, for real petrolheads..
Review length and style spot on for me. You come across very naturally on camera and somehow compelling to watch when in reality it's just a guy giving his opinion on a car. Which ain't that unusual!! Guess the key is, you know what you are talking about and its honest. Goes along way... keep up the good work.
Thankyou Tom, very kind
Just like with the RX8, this car it’s somewhat misunderstood because It’s a driver’s car... not about top speed or brutal acceleration, but balance and handling dynamics.
the RX8 is a road car that happens to be sporty. The RX7 is a sports car. Lots of people know this and dont like the RX8.
@@wPJyat the rx8 is definitely a sports car. It’s been touted as one of the best chassis in any price point, and the engine screams to 9000 rpm. It’s a shame the wankel rotary had terrible reliability, but the RX8 chassis is sublime and a true sports car.
This is an amazing vehicle. I've had my FRS for 3 years, slowly building it. Got new rims/tires, exhaust, tail lights. Some other cosmetic upgrades. It is extremely well balanced and handles incredibly. Would definitely recommend this car to any car enthusiasts or people that want a really well made coupe.
They are lovely little cars. In some ways, they are (almost) a through-back to the car of my youth: 240Z. A different firm of course and there was nothing like that stunning car for the price of a MGB GT. Now there is so much more choice to the GT86. I hate comparisons with the Toyota 2000GT which was stupidly expensive (much more than the much faster E-type). I am old and drive Golf GTIs because I don’t want to look a tit in a GT86. Shame that we grow old and are so conscious of it.
Bugger what anyone else thinks, I'm 56 and I've got one as a second car. It's a giggle and smile factory, the sort of car that you make excuses to drive, and you always take the long way home, just because you can. Just don't get it in red, that's when one looks like a tit.
JayEmm, what do you like better as a daily driver, the 86 or the 350z?
"Loads and loads of space" Yes we here in the US have road sides with ditches, and you have walls! LOL
Thank you for saying what needed to be said about the intention of the 86, Tetsuya Tada said that when he spoke to people this is what car enthusiasts asked for
How does it compare with a MX-5 MD? I can't help but see the similarities in the kind of car they want to be.
I feel the same, I'd say this needs higher final drive and better tyres, the MX-5 needs coilovers to be about equal cars.
After that it's a matter of preference if you go for the 2-seater roadster or 2+2 coupe.
Also, the MX-5 interior looks nicer.
The gt86 does have noticeably sharper handling. Also an LSD and extra chassis bracing as standard. It drifts WAY easier as well.
You'd need to spend quite a lot of money to get the MX-5 on par with the stock gt86 for handling tbh. Stick coilovers etc on the gt86 and you probably won't be able to match it.
I have owned MX5ND and 08 Cayman and now BRZ - the Cayman feels lardy and is not as progressive at the limit but solid and chunky. Mx 5 a great 8/10ths car, but very cramped, and the dynamics fall apart when you really push it. BRZ - the harder you push it the better it gets :)
It does not sell because Toyota and Subaru dont even show them on their showroom floors. They fear the car making all their other shitbox blob cars look like a pile of feces. The requests for the BRZ in ny is 2-3 a day per dealership but they have no stock. I own a performance package 2017 BRZ. it is an incredible car to drive daily, in Manhattan, in the mountains, and straightaways. The car is fast and you can actually drive it with it throttle at max.
I'm astounded to hear you say the 86 wasn't a run out success. They are everywhere in America and in Australia when they were released, there was a waiting list 12 to 24 months long! For a Toyota!!
P.S. Keiichi Tscuchiya filmed a commercial for it in the outback. (NT or NSW)
owned mine now for 3 years would never change it! love it!
i love your honest reviews, find mainstream channels are too dependent on their sponsors. keep up the great work!!
Thankyou
JayEmm: the discount Chris Harris.
That's a new one. It's usually Clarkson.
Good enough for Keiichi Tsuchiya
For a car that "didn't do well" because it's "underpowered" due to "needing a turbo," I see an awful lot of these on the road and very few owners who regret the purchase. This is an entry level sports car. It doesn't need more power because the driver hasn't learned to use the power it already has. Twin screw kits are available if you want another 30-50% without supporting mods, e85, forged internals, etc. Maybe someday I'll buy one, but I'm happy with my stock motor, lowered front and 255/40/r17 summer tires.
What do you enjoy driving more, the 86 or a 240z?
240z
Best decision I've ever made was buying my facelift Toyota 86!
Nineteen96 Worst decision was selling my FR-S!
I know this video is now 5 years old Jay, but now having owned my 2020 GT86 for 2 years, I feel I can comment properly.
I feel it it is one of the best sportscars ever made.
More than enough power for it's intended use, as you say, so much fun to drive, reasonably comfortable, reasonably economical, and apart from passengers reasonably practical too.
I specifically wanted an automatic (sacrilege I know to some) as for everyday driving it's just so much more relaxing, and thanks to Toyota's electronic wizardry it is also one of the fastest changing torque converter autos currently in production.
(My logic, a good auto will always be able to change gear faster than I can lol, plus it has auto rev matching too)
Mine is totally standard, the only modification being plugging the sound tube into the cabin to make it quieter and I find if you drive it as it was always intended to be driven (revved out) there is no loss of power, and It will show a clean pair of heels to an awful lot of the "hot hatch" army.
I did get the chance to drive the new GR86, courtesy of my local Toyota main dealer, and to be honest I don't think I have missed out on anything.
Changing the subject slightly, I know you enjoy reviewing some of the rarer cars out there, and after doing a bit geeking, I have worked out (very roughly lol) that the exact make, model, year, spec and colour of my car is possibly only about one of only about 10 in the country, so if you were interested in doing a review, I'd be more than happy to let you have her.
12:07 We know what channel he watches on RUclips haha
For the 2017~ Toyobaru facelifts, they really should've eliminated the torque dip that these FA20s have at circa 4000rpm. I know that the MX-5 ND 2.0s are at least 100kg lighter and have shorter gearing but they still manage to feel just as fast to accelerate as these toyobarus - despite having 40hp less or something. Although you can quickly get an ECU remap+aftermarket exhaust and solve that said problem. It doesn't desperately need over 300hp, but a better torque curve would really make the driving experience better. However unlike the MX5s, I do like that you can put several tyres and jack stands in the rear compartment for track/drift days, as demonstrated by Chris Drift youtube channel
The MX-5 is a much softer sports car though, aimed more at the masses rather than petrolheads. They don't feel the same at all really.
I'm an Idiot I never said 'they feel the same to drive'. And anyways, heard of spec-miata? They put different suspension and make other modifications to make them competent racecars
These things are a pretty specialized car for the money and it is great that you can get a RWD sports car at this price.
Here in Australia they under cut the 2L hot hatches by quite a bit.
+Michael Mackey Agreed,. Before the 86/BRZ came out in 2012, I'm sure most of us thought that the affordable-japanese-sportscar-era was over but thank goodness, we live in a day where these cars exist. Thats interesting - in the UK, they are priced around the same (if not more) than most hothatches with 230hp+. But i'd still take these japanese RWD cars anyday over the FWD turbocharged hatchbacks if i'd want the ultimate driving experience!
Yea in the UK the GT86 was considered a bit expensive. You can get a Focus ST for about 20k, at one point they were selling Fiesta STs for 16k
Hey nice vid. I haven't read all the comments but I'd be surprised if no one hasnt mentioned the S14a 200sx. For me the gt86 is nearly a modern interpretation... But the 200sx is so much better! More tunable, better looking, faster, better sounding (with the right exhaust and breathing). Now that is a proper drivers car in the affordable segment...well for the timebeing until those in the know buy them all up....sshhhh. with a few choice mods they become proper giant slayers ;) if you haven't tried one, try one!
Did someone say MX-5?
Too small for all people and really not practical.
I live in Porsche Land...
not kidding, every old lady here drives a Porsche.
Some guys too.
And there is one thing I like to say (as a Subaru BRZ owner)
"It's better to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."
(dropping the Mic leaving the Stage ... :D)
P.S. 90% can even handle a car right with "just" 200 HP
Hi James surprised you didn't compare this with the ND mx5 you drove last year I have driven both and purchased the mx5 because it felt more like a sports car and was slightly faster and funner, great video mate cheers
Thanks Dan, it has been so long since I drove the MX5 and in such different conditions it would not have been a fair comparison
I checked out the MX5 before I bought he GT86: the main differences were the interior finish of the mx5 is lovely, far superior, but although I could live with the slightly claustrophobic feeling (i'm 6') there's not nearly enough storage space for a decent road trip whereas the GT86 has stacks of room when you fold down the seats, and although some of the materials are not the best, there's nothing wrong with the build quality. Also I drove a GT86 round Silverstone as part of a "Ferrari experience" and it was impressive - it may not be hot-hatch fast, but it's fast enough. Finally, the MX5 is slightly too soft cornering, the 86 is absolutely spot-on
the mx5 is a beautiful toy. it is very well made. It has no storage and only 2 seats and no weight in an accident. I would buy the hardtop model in a heartbeat though, it's beautiful in all ways.
Knew you'd enjoy one of these on UK roads. I'm surprised you didn't specifically mention the driving position, I think it's excellent!
You are right. It is.
A budget sportscar, good marketing idea tbh
The Celica Gt4 was a beast of a car. Owned a UK model one for around 4 years in 2011. Really miss that car tho big time. Reason for sale was as I am 6ft plus and have a bad back was very awkward to get in and out as very low. Plus got a baby girl too so mission for a baby seat in the back. Fantastic review tho!!! 👍
My BRZ is a dream to drive in TARGA NL. We won second place, Congratulations Toyota /Subaru, thank you for your support. Doing great in the slalom too.
idk i have so much fun driving mine bone stock lmao
'Needs more power' say the people who can't heel toe, let alone trailbrake.
U know what for it is made if u know Initial D and MF Ghsot.. That's all what U have to know.
The Power is not so important than the handling. I have it all 350, Evo, Mx5, gt86, Celica... Don't need much power to have a lot of fun
Toyota making a comeback with rwd cars:D
If you were to die today are you 100% sure you can go to heaven?. So, you must realize that you sinned, against a holy God therefore you are a sinner(Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God), if 1 crime makes you a criminal, then 1 sin=you are a sinner. And God has to punish sin with hell forever( Revelation 20:5 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever). But, you can be saved/go to heaven because of Jesus Christ and only what He did( who is God by the way John 1:1 and 14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God/And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.) by putting all your FAITH/TRUST from the HEART in the death on the cross for the forgiving of sins, burial and ressurection on the third day of Jesus Christ, the BLOOD of Jesus for the forgiving/cleasing of sins(1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures), (Romans 5:9 - Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. ). Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God/ Not of works, lest any man should boast. You don't have to do anything to get to heaven, no work, just trust, RELY on what Jesus Christ did, in His blood for your salvation. Now if you put your trust in what Jesus did, you are going to heaven no matter what, you have eternal security(Ephesians 4:30 - And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption). Now of course grace is not a excuse to sin. Do not sin but not to get saved or stay saved but only to please God.( Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?), after death going to heaven or not you will face judgement. If saved, you will go to The Judgement Seat of Christ where your works you do after being saved are judged for rewards there.Also out of a good conscience we must not bother God by sinning because he died for us to be saved.
the thing is you can buy 90s legends with the money you buy this 90s cars have a lot more feeling and character celica gt4 Mr2 200Sx 180sx etc etc etc
Very true but they do come with classic car problems
true
Since secondhand prices do not drop enough i will never own one. They sell for 66 -60 % new price here, even the oldest. Insane. I ll buy a suzuki swift sport,i guess. The non turbo. Yeah fwd sucks i know.
Looking forward to your thoughts on the new supra and alpine a110 when you can get your hands on them!
I would love to!
Ahh the Alpine 110, 50hp odd more than the GT86, over £20,000 more expensive and has arguably a worse quality interior. I hope the build quality has improved after the one Chris Harris had on Top Gear burst into flames. Makes the GT86 look like a bargain. I think people forget the expense involved in bespoke Sports car chassis and rear wheel drive gubbins/ diffs etc.
I think it perfectly encapsulates what the 86 was and now is, it wouldn’t feel right if it had a ton of hp only thing I don’t like honestly hate is that it’s a boxer just why like I get it great engine balance and all but it’s a time bomb the moment you put any major amount of boost still love the car I think out of all the revivals this car is the best
Love Toyota !
They provide engines for Lotus 😂👍
I’ve been out of a Lotus for Two years now however did a scare yourself sensible experience last Sunday. The best fun you can have with your clothes on
Deffo one for my garage at some point
Great video J
Biggest issue I had with my GT86 was the ridicilous amount of noise in the cabin. At highway speeds I had to sit there and shout in order to have a conversation with the person next to me.
Apart from that I loved it, the balance and the seating position make for such a fun car. The torque dip didn't bother me too much, and it can be resolved with a tune anyway.
Went from the GT86 to an RS4 which obviously is significantly faster, but I still kinda miss that little Toyota.
I like these. Still waiting for them to get a bit cheaper. They really deserved to sell more.
What do you think would be a more fun daily driver, 86 or 350z HR?
Lexus make a couple of quick cars and they are effectively up-market Toyotas.
Not exactly, Harry.
Not exactly quick or not exactly Toyotas?
I don't know if you take requests as such but I would love to know what you think of the new Suzuki Jimny if/when you can get your hands on one.
That is an unusual request, I will ask Suzuki
Mundane in the grand scheme of things I know but I (and quite a few others it seems) are oddly excited about it. It hasn't officially launched yet but from what we have seen it is a great looking little car with some calling it a baby G-Wagon. Between the new squared off Jimny and the fairly recent Ignis I think Suzuki is breaking away from it's typical conservative nature somewhat.
@@JayEmmOnCars any news on that?
I'd like to see that as well.
Do take it on an offroad day or something and not the usual bendy bits. It isn't much fun for that.
Might be good exposure to the offroad community as weell for your chanel.
Why the fuck aint there a turbo version.why does the interior look like a car from the end of the 80s
Why so expensive
Japanese car makers died in the mid 90s
Hell naw ima get one of these when I can
A daily driver for a 59 yr old Scouser in Texas, lorra lorra fun!
:D @ 16:43, is that an MCM sticker on the mirror..... love it :)
I absolutely love my 86 in every way 💕
In hence this a new 86 brought to us from the 90s instead of initial d
Love the GT86
I looked at getting one of these at the time they were released, my issue was the very basic low quality interior. I compared it to my Integra Type R which whilst it has more than 200,000kms on the clock has a quality interior, titanium gearknob, genuine Recaros and even after 200,000kms was still a nice place to drive in. I just couldn't imagine the interior standing up to normal daily use and it just didn't feel like a special place to be.
The mk2 is a bit better
That's good to know, potentially a second hand mk2 could be a compelling track car and daily driver which with its relative low power would have limited consumption of tyres and brakes on the track and would protect your drivers licence as a daily driver.
Enjoyable video btw. Enjoy your content which is a bit more down to earth in terms of content and without too much bias.
the teggy is in a totally different league in my opinion, way nicer interior and the engine is actually not all that powerful in say the dc2 BUT its the way the power is delivered... it smashes on with vtec where as this thing just limps through the rev range.
I'm pausing thus at 01:00 to comment.
In my opinion, 200-250 bhp is plenty...people pining for more power outta the GT-86 from the factory, don't understand what this car is about.
If Toyota, or Subaru were to turbo the car, yes it'd make more power, but lag and boost thresholds would upset the balance of the cars characteristics.
It'd also add to the cost of the car, and the extra 25 or 30 horses seen from anemic factory turbo's still wouldn't be enough power to "justify" the now increased price. People would still bauck about the performance and it "not having enough power" to justify the now $30k+ sticker price for the turbo option they wanted.
This car is a rolling museum of historical Toyota references most people can't/don't appreciate.
1. The boxer engine is a direct homage to the two-cylinder boxer engine of the Sports 800, Yota's first ever "sports car"
2. The dimensions of the side windows are identical to the Toyota 2000GT, a legitimate Japanese "hyper car" of its day, that was a multi-million dollar car in the 60's
3. The DS-4 fuel injection system is the evolution and reflection of the T-VIS found on the 4A-GE engine in the original AE86
4. The torque curve everyone whines about in the GT-86 is a result of the induction system, and mirrors the same torque dip found in the 4A-GE compliments of the T-VIS system
5. The @ weight distribution is identical to that of the AE86 Corolla
This car was a "skunk works" project...it was developed behind Toyota board's back, this car's very existence is something special.
I don't think many people grasp how much heart was put into the GT-86, I don't own one, but want one terribly....
It dismays me to see how Toyota listened to what people wanted, and a lot of people feel it isn't "good enough".
I'm however one of those corny "romantic" enthusiasts who appreciates a vehicle for more than what's on the surface.
There are cars that are harbingers of new era's of automotive advancement, and cars that become icons, and cars like the GT-86, they're symbols and recognition of what once was, and the embodiment of a longing to get back there...a flesh-and-blood flashback if you will, that to me is why they can be so special.
It shows me that I as an enthusiast am not alone, and that companies can express the same longing I can.
I know it sounds absolutely crazy to say that, but I hope they continue production for a good long while, and I hope people will come to appreciate this thing for what it represents...not just what it is.
A GT86 with 250 bhp (Turbo or Supercharger) would be perfect. The Toyota (Mercedes) Supra is shockingly ugly in comparison. Sorry Toyota.
Wow im waiting for review this car on your channel! Thanks :D
86 have the best design for spot car . I have Toyota 86 2017 and my opinion. This car is beautiful for drifting , but for raising on Autobarn ,need 50 or more hp. Is very disappointed when corolla or another small car is similar....
BMW E46 330i is a legend because of all the poor enthusiasts that could never afford the M3, and the E36 328 probably sold just as well but I can't remember that far back to early 90's. That's what Toyota should have aimed for: 205HP at the wheels, ~230Nm torque (couldn't match 300Nm of bigger displacement BMW engine of course), this car would've been a massive success. But the excessive money they want for this weak version is absurd.
wow.. i would love to buy the version with steelies and unpainted bumper
it is perfect base car
Agreed that it would make more sense to sell these over here as plenty of enthusiastic car modifiers would rather have a newer car than an old rusty Nissan etc. I even told the head of Toyota UK sales this at Goodwood two years ago, it didn't make financial sense to track a modified £30+k car. We need this cheaper option. Still waiting. !
Mark Gosnold same in my country too. there r lots of enthusiast would love to mod one. with cheaper price base car it would bring more sale for toyota
I think its mainly because Toyota in the US is perceived very differently to in the UK. The american youth love Japanese cars especially Toyota and Lexus (which is no way near as big in the UK) and the modding scene is also a lot bigger. Whereas the UK youth just want RS3's and golf r's and m4's and range rovers. mainly coz german cars are perceived to be very unreliable in America because we get the german built ones and they dont.
Curious Name 86 ??, in the 70's TV show GET SMART the agents were Max , Agent 86 & the cool lady agent 99, apparently they were CIA operational codes , 86 being a Complete STUFF UP and 99 a Total success , i keep expecting Honda to launch a 99 and play get smart pro-mo's.
Absolute love mine. Begs to be trashed on a country road. Tried a couple of S2000's before buying my GT86 and to be honest at normal road speeds the GT86 won hands down for me plus the added practically. Looking back I think I would look a bit of a dick in a convertible.
So, i own a 2008 Stage 1 TTS STronic. I can do a straight swap for one of these, manual.
I owned an R34 before so i do miss the manual rwd layout.
Thoughts?
True petrolheads have no problem buying used so Toyota had to compete with the past. Modern tax is deeply unappealing too, so who's paying for a car with horsepower starting with a 1 with the tax of an old car starting with a 3?
This car has an identity problem for European buyers. It's not a Toyota (boxer engine) and not a Subaru ( awd ) just like the supra is more BMW than Toyota.
I disagree about the tyres. I run the cheapest 225s on my street rims because it's so fun to flick the tail out all the time. If you want to experience laws-of-physics-defying grip, then get a spare set of wheels shod in r-specs and do a track day. But for street, my recommendation is hoonability.
I'm guessin even base 2010 Evora would grind this cars bones to make its bread.
Yeah, but an Evora was double the money new
JayEmm on Cars It is as fast as some U.S. versions of the 308.
Cletus, just a few questions to assuage my piqued curiosity.
Have your passenger and yourself ever considered entering a knobbly knees contest❓
Does the car have square wheels, as you were jiggling about quite alarmingly❓
Apropos to returning MR2s, how is Clovis progressing with his modified example❓
Just how much do you pay for dirt where you come from❓
You would appear to have a thing about knobs, as I seem to recall you changing your own❓
All in all, a cracking review of a much maligned and misunderstood car. It's just a pity it's not German‼️🤣🤣🤣
Your reviews are so slooow. 10-15 minutes should be sufficient. The "why are you subscribed then?" guys must know that I appreciate this reviewer, I thought he should get all types of input from the audience.
Adeel A. Ahmad yea I never watch the entire thing takes up too much time haha
All types of input is good. I do try and keep the reviews shorter but I am not very good at it. I figure with cars like this people want a different take so I like to think that is me.
It's also tricky because I have cut reviews short in the past then get a million comments about "why didn't you discuss x,y,z" - its a constant process and I appreciate the feedback as it helps me refine it
JayEmm on Cars I can see your point, difficult to satisfy everyone here, keep the videos coming and safe motoring to all 👍
I think the key is to be concise. Get all of the points you want to make in, without repeating them too many times throughout the video.
However, I must add that this video was very enjoyable to watch. So no real complaints here in regards to the above content.
The trouble is I don't know what I will say before I get in the car, what you see is 100% unscripted and nearly "live" as it were
Yes I know this was 4 years ago. This review reminds me a lot of why I bought my Porsche 944. Lots of feel and fun at reasonable speeds
If you buy one of these make sure you're ready for the humiliation of being done by standard Fiesta STs and Corsa VXRs 😂
Oooh, drive an MX5 (ND) next and compare, both sporty cars, simple and focued. Both the right sort of price....