How Much Difference Do Bike Tyres Make To Rolling Resistance And Speed? | Ray's Rolling Road
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2021
- How much difference do your mountain bike tyres and the tyre pressure you have them set at make to your speed or energy usage when riding? We have performed comparisons out on the trail in the past but now, thanks to Ray's rolling road we can provide some comparative research on how two different tyres perform over a number of tyre pressures. Today we are looking at the Maxxis Recon and comparing it against a Maxxis Shorty, with two rider weights of 70KG & 90KG and at pressures of 10, 20 and 40 Psi. 👨🔬
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One of the best videos! Well done!
Ray seems a legend. Reminds me of some of the blokes who held a hand out while I was cutting my teeth. Solid gold blokes, usually with the cutting sense of humour I love.
Who is Ray. Why does he have a rolling road in his shed, what does he do, He’s epic he can be the tech guru for the channel 👍🏻
Ray Cook is a friend of Steve and the channel and a mechatronics engineer, he built it for fun and so we could do some of these great tests!
Where the fuck have you been? Did your battery run out? Keep up!
Excellent info !!
Very interesting and great that you were able to put some real numbers on different tyres and pressure.
Really interesting cheers Ray👍😉
Brilliant tech vid Steve.
Great video! Id love to see the difference between tyre carcass, Thin XC orientated vs DH orientated for example. How that would affect rolling resistance at different psi's with more or less tyre flex.
Way to go buddy!
Great video nice beginning.
I typically just ride max pressure all the time.
Occasionally low pressure for softer ride.
No pro money here...
Would love to see where the real cliff is, starting at say 25psi and dropping in 2psi intervals. Where do you loose the most etc.
Hi! Great study👍. Would be great if you present also the maxis shorty table, not only chart 🙂
Great video guys, the first time this has been done on MTB tires in a long time. I'd have loved a tire comparison graph, shorty vs rekon for each rider weight. We've all heard the crap for years that this tire rolls better than that one, it would be great to see some actual results from the rolling road.
I can see why it wasn't included as the rolling road does not represent an actual road in real life but a closeup of both graphs would be great for those of us that are curious.
I managed to pull the info from the video. No second chart can be found for the Shorty but I pulled the points from the closeup of the graph.
Reckon - 70kg rider
psi, 8kmph, 16 kmph, 22 kmph,
10 psi, 85 watts, 155 watts, 215 watts,
20 psi, 75 watts, 140 watts, 185 watts,
40 psi, 75 watts, 135 watts, 185 watts,
Reckon - 90kg rider
psi, 8kmph, 16 kmph, 22 kmph,
10 psi, 120 watts, 216 watts, 300 watts
20 psi, 100 watts, 165 watts, 245 watts
40 psi, 95 watts, 160 watts, 260 watts
Shorty - 70kg rider
psi, 8kmph, 16 kmph, 22 kmph,
10 psi, 122 watts, 220 watts, 295 watts
20 psi, 110 watts, 195 watts, 260 watts
40 psi, 97 watts, 170 watts, 230 watts
Shorty - 90kg rider
psi, 8kmph, 16 kmph, 22 kmph,
10 psi, 160 watts, 305 watts, unknown
20 psi, 150 watts, 260 watts, unknown
40 psi, 138 watts, 240 watts, 315 watts
Nice video Steve, please pass my cheers to Ray. What about repeating the test with tyre inserts? A lot of us are using inserts, How do the inserts affect the rolling? Thanks.
I think these tests are a great indication for a smooth flat surface with equal load ( a road bike for example) to indicate watts lost and a great indication of where to start with your pressures in general.
I think we all knew that harder tyre pressures mean less rolling resistance through reduced deformation. Also with a heavier rider the motor will need to work harder to move that mass therefore draining the battery quicker. Trouble is with MTB there are so many other factors and conditions... for example you may require the tyre to deform in order to maintain grip, deal with different surface textures, surface firmness, tyre models/casings/compounds and if your weight is being projected forwards or backwards increasing the down pressure on a particular tyre... all these factors also play a part in your tyre pressure requirements. At the end of the day what tyre pressure you run is personal to you and the terrain/conditions you ride in, if you need 10 psi because the conditions call for it then run 10 psi just don't expect to ride as far on a charge. The biggest takeaway for me is there is not a great deal between 20-40 psi so if I can get away with running 20 psi for better grip whilst not really sacrificing battery life or effort required through rider watts then it confirms in my mind that what I have been running for years for my conditions is correct.
Hello Steve, I would LOVE to see what difference in watts the tire compound and tire casing would make at the same speed with those two rider weights.
Lets say a Maxxis DHR 2 in 27.5"x2,4" in EXO, EXO+, DD and DH casing in different compounds as Dual, MaxxTerra, MaxxGrip and Supertacky.
For me those informations would be way more interesting for choosing a good compromise between grip, rolling ressistance, tire weight and of course puncture ressistance of one tire type.
For instance how much watt does a lighter and cheaper DHR2 EXO Dual take compared to a DHR2 DH Supertacky or MaxxGrip version with the same threadpattern.
Thanks to Ray and his genious machine 😊
Great Job!!!! Can you make a test with 25mm 30mm and 35mm rims? All with a 2,35 tyre.
Could you guys do a vid on wheel sets. My rear hub gone. Seems new wheels well expensive.
Surely this rig would make far more sense producing some power and torque curves for all the different motors.
There’s some weird assumptions in this test (specifically that a tyre pressed into a metal roller will correspond to a tyre pressed into dirt and rock and mud)
> There’s some weird assumptions in this test (specifically that a tyre pressed into a metal roller will correspond to a tyre pressed into dirt and rock and mud)
No. The weird assumption is that you assume this is supposed to be representative of a dirt road.
They specifically called out that this is a comparative test on the surface of their rolling road.
That's the plan! 😉 - Steve mentions in the video, he will be taking these results to the trail to see how it compares. This is a comparative test on the rolling road surface.
Ok, I've got a second request. What's the difference in watts used when a high vs low rolling resistance tire is put on the front, along with the differences in pressures on the front.
So, keep my Rekon at 20psi... Got it. It would be interesting to see the difference with bumps on the Dyno. Does the impact with the lower psi use more watts, or did the impact with a higher psi use more watts. This was a great video! Thanks for the hard work!
I guess this also depends a lot on your suspension system.
@@patoberli probably does. I can subjectively feel a difference between 20psi, 25psi, and 30psi when it comes to smoothness of the ride. I feel 30psi is way too stiff, rough. Not even my socks make a difference. Somewhere between 20-25psi is the sweet spot it seems when it comes to the small impacts.
@@howarja It also depends on the tire width and of course how heavy you are. But in general, yes I agree that 20 psi are probably the golden middle for 90% of all drivers and > 2.5" tires.
Would definitely be interested to see whether lower pressures are better when the road gets real world bumpy
I was also unclear about the difference in rolling resistance between the Rekon and Shorty. If you freeze at 11:31 you can compare graphs. For 90kg, 20psi, 16kph, the Rekon is 200W and the Shorty is 275W. That really shows the 35% extra effort required to ride soft knobbly tyres
Are you sure the table at 6:00 is correct? For the 90kg rider it's showing MORE power required at 40psi (260W) than 20psi (245W), which is not the same as the linear relationship shown in the graphs. Also equal power required (185W) for the 70kg rider at either 20 or 40psi?
Beat me too it. Just watched the video and noticed that.
Aren’t lower tire pressures recommended for off road trail (where I would use an E-MTB)? Could the simulation include rolling resistance on rough terrain for comparison ?
BTW, Steve, get easier with beer. Applies to me too!
It would be good to show some of the lines for each of the tyres plotted together to see what difference the burlier tyres make
@ 9:18 Steve be like... "Oh for forks sake, Ray. I just want to go and ride my forking bike!"
It looks like you have reversed the last 2 rows in the far right column on the Rekon table?
What about when using a road tires for MTB on the road vs regular MTB tires? How much will it differ?
At 9.07 the zoomed in graph has six solid lines showing a difference between 20psi and 40psi (again at 9.27) but when you zoom out to show Ray pointing at a graph (9.18), there are only 4 lines (2 solid 2 dashed) with 20psi and 40psi equal - what's going on?
The Shorty graph is at 12.5% grade but the data for the Rekon doesn't show the grade? There is no direct comparison between the Shorty and the Rekon?
You're using flat rollers which would be great if you're testing a road bike. There are already studies showing softer is faster (up to a point obviously) on rough surfaces.
Glue a bucket of rocks on and do it again! 😁
Bucket or no bucket, it would be very interesting to use this machine to compare a ‘rough’ roller with a smooth one with all the other variables unchanged. I agree, I think that the pattern of the differences would change, but I can’t quite make up my mind how profound that would be. Time for a ‘rough roller test’ if you can make such a roller 😊
@@Coolcmsc And to be accurate it would need to be a rolling road rather than a pair of rollers.
@@clivem25 Clive, I’m interested in this. I’m not clever enough to understand why a true flat rolling road, but no reason to doubt you. Why would it be better? Ta !😊
When you move from a smooth surface to rough one, at what point does lower pressure and more compliance overwhelm rolling resistance? Could Ray modify his rollers to be rough and re run the test
I would like to see the difference on a stony/bumpy surface. My feeling is, that 25 PSI is far better than eg 40.
Rolling road and real world tests are worlds apart. We need to some real numbers.
Yes…. But “how” is the problem. This points us quite nicely as a comparator machine. Talking of watts, simulating real-life chain drag with different chains, lubes, wax, riding conditions, frequency of cleaning (and wear) is another troublesome topic.
Steve. You said Watts at the battery. Surely you meant at the rear wheel? The real test is rear wheel vs battery as obviously it will be far greater at the battery due to the losses through the system, that is the serial efficiency of the system.
nobody in the production know how to make a excel table?
19psi up front, 18psi up back, and I'm of a, ahem... 'sporty' build. But it depends if there's any road sections involved.
What about 15 psi?
Would love to see the stats for 140KG rider
I'm 120kg. A 90kg rider to me is lightweight!
Can you make a video about the rolling road and all the tech goodness ? no dumbing down no tech holds barred
What would you like to see?
@@embn All of it! That's awesome.
Haha, I'm running 40 to 50 psi on my cheap old tyres cause mostly I'm just going easy surfaces on rides out with the wife, I can really tell the difference in drag if the presure drops to less then 40,
My wife is 2 stone lighter than me and get loads more range and bike goes faster.
Defo nicer to ride with less presure though.
You can compensate for the higher PSI. With a super comfortable saddle. I swapped out the small uncomfortable saddle on my cross country bike. For a big universal saddle with a backrest. And man it's like floating on air. I can ride for 2 hours and not have any ass ache.
how about on rough road or off road? i don't think those smooth rollers are that good way to measure mtb tires.
EMBN - tests tires for efficiency
Internet- "that wasn't scientific enough"
EMBN - *cracks knuckles "hold my Guinness"
why would you run a shorty? rekon vs DHR2 or dissector would make more sense
My friend asked if you could run this test again for a rider weighing 120kg ...
So if you are a hevier rider like Jones and myself make sure you are not running lower pressures than your lighter riding mate on your next ride 😀
It's a very nice video, I'm an KTM electric mountain bike rider, I live in the Netherlands, I'm still waiting for my new channel. Good luck with my love.....
Ray is lucky Steve does not have his stick. He would be covered in bruises otherwise.
I've seen that video...
Numbah wan!
🏁🏆
Its interesting but this doesnt factor in how tire pressure affects rolling resistance on rough surfaces.
How does the “Maxxis Wobble” affect rolling resistance? 😂
some race mechanics (over a few different tyre brands) have experimented with wheel weights in the past. Wobble in a tyre is often due to not being seated properly on a rim, it's also worth noting that on most tyres the decals/ lines may not be straight (but that's just visuals). It's also very common for people to stretch the tyre casing during riding.. The number of people who damage tyres by 'shralping' corners for the gram is mind-boggling, we have even heard of people ripping beads off the casing by running super-low tyre pressures to enhance their schralp noise... 🤷♂️🤦♂️
20psi needs 30-50watts more than 40psi for a given speed, and if i ride at 40psi then let 20psi out my tyre and ride at 20psi you can easily tell. 80psi* it is then !! :))
*80psi may not be safe or fun
So, without the graphs in hand, I can’t be certain, but I think a 90kg person with 40psi (or20psi) is working as hard as the 70kg person using an almost flat 10 psi tyre….
Is that correct?
Moral - diet, loose weight, pump your tires, off you go!
Intermittent fasting is the solution for the 90kg problem.....you can save 25% of battery!!!
Meh I'd rather not be weak
Take a 55kg rider put him on an enduro bike he'll be knackered real quick
Who rides with 10 psi on their tires?
my 25kg kid?
WTF
Ray isn't rong, fizziks is rong!
So fat people are slower?!? ;-)
I feel totally flat after watching that. Bored 😴. I mean who is saying the previous test wasn't scientific enough?
None at all you have a stupid motor just get fit I wish they ban the bloody things
Why watch videos on an ebike specific channel if you dont like them? Didnt know we were all living in your world where we have to all ride only what you approve, you should be banned. Go join a hiking group if you want to complain about bikes
@@rcilluminati26 I don’t watch the videos why would I chipped bikes are now forging scars across open fells don’t comment if you can’t see the damage
Aside from the Penn State information, another good site has been "bicyclerollingresistance" dot com, though their recent enthusiasm for the subject matter does also seem to be in decline, and likewise the data on more recent tires.