The Worst Way To Learn Striking
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
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Does the shirt have your durability?
@@Priapos93 You could argue it has more, as the shirt can be hit with a baseball bat and remain undamaged!
Also, the shirt does not cry when someone hurts its feelings, and it is therefore stronger than us all
@@ArmchairViolence you disgust me. Making money off of bad advice. I’d love to see you get humbled. You don’t compete do you?
150% valid points cause i've been wondering the same thing for a very long time , i've always hated pad work , i prefer to train on those heave bags and sparing with others and have them drill moves to improve .
AV: "Can't sell the concept of shirtlessness"
Onlyfans: "hold my beer"
Still not the concept
lmao
The problem with pads is there’s way more bad pad holders than good. There is the guy who ends up holding the pads a meter apart, the guy who is scared to hold the pads who pulls the pads away as if he's catching a baseball, and the tired pad holder who progressively starts dropping their hands more and more simulating you fighting a midget.
As the wise Master Ken revealed: a person who has an easier time striking at the groin has a immediate advantage.
I tried out a boxing class and had a pad holder who doesn't hold the pads up at all and expects you to just throw the punches at the air while he smacks the punches as hard as if he's the one throwing punches. Absolutely awful
You forgot the human tree of a pad holder who holds them at the height of a normal person's head when you're trying to do a body-kick.
Finally someone who gets it
That’s the biggest problem. Holding pads is a skill itself.
More people need to hear this.
Man has given reason why i have started hating my gym rn
Hey coach, I always hit pads at full power. Have I been a dick head this whole time?
@@BiggityBoggity8095it probably depends on your partner, I used to hit pads super hard but then I got with a newbie and he kept saying "you don't have to hit so hard" I felt bad.
Tony Jeffires has a video called The Pros and Cons of MITT WORK in Boxing | Pad Work Tutorial. It explains padwork correctly, and how many use it incorrectly. Meanwhile, nice to see RamseyDewey here, one of my favorite youtubers!
Oh hey coach
Padwork, in hindsight, is like a weird combo of Partner Drilling and Bagwork, where you turn your partner into this sentient bag.
YES! A bag that moves around forcing you to work on your footwork, a bag that can throw some shots at you forcing you to work on defense, etc. Assuming the pad holder actually knows what they are doing. I think in a lot of mma gyms the padholder is most likely just as untrained as whoever is hitting the pads, instead of having the coach or someone trained in holding pads who can control what is going on.
Some weekends *I* feel like a sentient bag
@@athenry thank you! Exactly! Getting used to strikes coming at you fast and hard, movement, intuition with different pad holders/strikers. The only reason pad holding doesn’t work is cause armchair over here doesn’t reach his people to hold properly.
I can’t stand seeing this many people falling for this idiots bs
@@athenry pad holding is a skill in itself and most people aren’t good enough to get the most out of it. Most just hold the pads up and let the striker execute the combination. They don’t actively challenge the striker but taking angles and making them adjust properly, moving in and forcing the striker to back up while striking to keep space to not smother themselves or moving away and making the striker learn to move their feet forward while striking to pressure a retreating opponent. Or even just throwing out their own strikes to keep the striker defensively responsible. All this stuff should be incorporated into pad work to keep it realistic as possible but often it isn’t so it creates a false sense of security to some extent
@@athenry Yes! I found pad holding more challenging than actually hitting them correctly.
I immediately checked if that was an April fool's video. Guess I'll listen to it seriously!
Ofcourse it was 😂
Bro released it just the day after April fools so nobody would think he's joking 😂
@@shinobix4925I normally release on Tuesdays, and did in fact double-check to make sure it wasn't April 1st before releasing 😂
@@ArmchairViolenceso you’re serious? Wow
Their is immense benefits to being the padholder. You get to experience strikes coming at you full speed and its a great opportunity to practice defense
Hell yeah brotha. You get it.
And working intuition and reading body language. Foot movement and forcing striker to defend.
Besides you can’t work a heavy bag around the ring lol
Bro science
Is it a good defense practice method? Because YOU decide which strikes your partner does by holding the pads a certain way.
If you hold the pads up straight, partner will do a jab-cross. If you hold one of the pads horizontally, partner will do a hook. And just like the video says, your partner has to wait until you have the pads positioned and are ready before they do the strikes.
This is not how real striking is going to be
@@CombatSportsNerdWhoSucks what are you talking about, every high level fighter in the world practices to defend strikes that they know are coming at them, there are countless drills that center around that
@@Better_MMA You're not really practicing how to defend against strikes as a pad holder.
As a pad holder, you hold pads a certain way, then your training partner hits them.
Drills that center around defending strikes (that you know are coming at you) is not the same as being a pad holder.
During these drills, the strikes are aimed at hitting you (head, body, etc). While holding pads, strikes are aimed at the pads.
While being a pad holder, the thing that you're doing (holding the pads out) is not really the same as what you should be doing when defending against strikes in a fight.
When I use pads, i keep them as close to my face as possible so that when the punches are thrown, the striker can throw punches at a range where they should be thrown. It helps the striker establish the range necessary for punching the opponent's face.
This is how I was trained to use pads, but sometimes things go bad depending on who your partner is...
I do agree with some points made. Gabriel Varga said (in a video about pad work) that pad work is one thing he would never give up in his training and I agree with him. Of course that’s with an experienced pad holder
Yeah and Gabriel’s got a lot of belts. I don’t see any belts hanging on this guys wall, let’s be real. These theories sound good, but are not tested. I agree that partner Dutch drills are good, but they don’t develop that brutal power you can get from pad work. In Thai boxing, we’re looking to change the fight with 1-2 damage inflicting strikes. I think good pad rounds with a partner hitting back and moving like a fight is as good a training you can get, and you can hit with 100% force. You can’t do that with Dutch drills and shouldn’t in sparring.
@@np494609 does armchair have any fights at all? I have never seen him training hard
Argumentum ad hominem fallacy.
No, partner drills are not a replacement for pad work, they are a complement. Yes, partner drills are better for distance and positional training, but they don't teach proper biomechanics of the strikes (no offense, but that's something you should work on more, judging by your demonstrations in the video). With pad work, you can isolate technique training and drill the correct biomechanics using reasonable power. Partner drills complement that with distance and positional training. The heavybag complements that with isolated power training. The double-end bag complements with precision and rythm training. And then you have sparring where you bring everything together in a still safe (and hopeful playful) environment.
If you would have said biometrics a third time this would be legit 👅
What you mean by biometrics?
lmfao @6:51 this made me actually laugh out loud. There is NO FUCKING WAY you're not gonna be a million+ subscriber channel dude. I absolutely adore your manner of sarcasm and comedy, it speaks to me in a spiritual level 😂
It was amazing, I'm still laughing
Poor lady
So funny!
That’s his poor girlfriend. I can’t believe she still puts up with him 😂
Who could be mad at that shit-eating grin 😂
That last comment rlly got me lmao- as soon as id gone to my old gym’s kickboxing class and had a session that was just roundkicks on pads back and forth for an hour….really made me question going back to another class there again
I've been aware that nobody used any mitts in the golden age of boxing for a while now, which made me reconsider the crucialness of the training method. Most people don't know that guys like Muhammed Ali never hit pads. They weren't around then. As for myself, I always wondered why kicking and punching combos felt different from the pads to sparring... this explains a lot. Now that I think about it, this also explains why guys I know who learned kickboxing primarily through pads can't really gauge the distance or throw actual up low combos well. Great vid. I'd say the one advantage of mitts is that you can move and punch hard and also work your precision. It's the most dynamic way to train hard without punching someone hard. You are supposed to push your punches to full extension through the pad as well, which I think simulates hitting a hard object like a head or a body, but the distance is of course messed up. I guess the expectation is to adjust while sparring once you measure the distance which takes experience regardless. Overall I don't agree with the grand conclusion, but I definitely learned what weakness it can create if you over rely on it as a training tool.
My ability to understand the muay thai gym footage from von Duuglas-Ittu's channel has been enhanced by this.
Good job
This is why I prefer Dutch style drills where you practice the combo on an opponent who either catches the punches with their gloves or just shells up so you can work. Edit: I commented this only having watched the first half of the video.
Shelling up and not moving is a bad defensive habbit to get into, kickboxing in the pocket maybe if ur like Zambidis but youll have knees to deal with, muay thai and elbows you will get sliced to pieces. I see it a lot its a bad habbit to let students form. Shell and move or counter cool, shell and stand there shelled for ages and practice that forming a habbit..not good
@@fiestastboost5788 You can still practice head movement in Dutch style drills, even with a higher guard.
None of these criticisms are correct because you're criticizing people who do pad holding wrong, not pad holding in concept. 1)You're not supposed to think of the holder as the opponent, you're supposed to think of the pad as the guy's face. 2) Get a pad holder who cares more about a good technical workout than making a sweet sound. 3) Pad holding benefits the holder's defensive timing, footwork, parrying, and cardio.
Conversely, partner drilling is great...but not being able to throw hard can lead to bad habits, over confidence, and lack of body awareness.
Do both (plus heavy, double end bag, slap sparring, chi sao, pummeling, position sparring, randori, etc) in proper measure for the right reasons.
The guy is clearly saying this for content! HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT! CAREFUL WHO YOU TAKE ADVICE FROM!!
Keyboards warriors angry at video lmao
Chi sao? ...lol bull shido alert 🤡
@@jstar6543 You guys criticizing him are the ones who don't know what you're talking about. All his points are correct and he's not even the first person talking about this, many others have done it before. There's a reason why old school boxers never used pads, which only became so prevalent relatively recently.
@@TheMountainBeyondTheWoods and the skill level between new age and old school boxers can't even be compared. New age boxers are miles ahead of old school boxers. Pad work can be beneficial but it has to be done correctly.
0:33 Women's MMA has shirts. There's your market right there.
:(
This is vital information
No they don't. Dude, stop lying. Women's MMA are shirtless. Else how you gonna sell tickets? Ever seen their weigh ins?
See, everyone is getting confused and thinking that selling images of shirtless people counts, but we're talking about you as a fan wearing the LACK of a jersey. I would have to find a way to sell you your own shirtlessness. I'd have to sell the CONCEPT of shirtlessness! That's way harder.
@@ArmchairViolence we weren't confused, just sad that women's mma isn't shirtless
Glad you got a sponsorship
That's mainly a rant about bad training partners and drills. I know that can be very frustrating but pads are versatile if you know what they're good and bad for and bad training partners can spoil anything.
Wooo! Our boy got sponsored AND we get a new video; the armchair is moving up in the world
Most of the problems with pad holding that you mention only apply to student on student pad drills. One of the most valuable drills you can do is pad work/mitt work with a trainer or experienced pad man. It simulates fight intensity, fight movements, it mixes offensive drills and defensive drills (getting smacked with a pad for keeping your hands too low sucks!), and puts the pad man right in a position to see everything you're doing well and not doing well and can give you great live coaching. You can't replicate that with bag work, partner drills, or even light sparring. Hard sparring is better but you shouldn't do hard sparring more than a couple of times a week to minimize risk injury and to avoid taking too much damage. You can do pad work every day.
Top level pad work is the best daily fight prep you can do.
Well, even if we assume the ultimate greater pad holder, the range problem remains. They ALWAYS hold the pads shorter and off centre of their own faces.
And, about giving those great live coachings, the "pad man" can easily see everything you're doing if he simply look at you fighting in partner drill as well. In fact, I'm pretty sure he can see it even better, since he has only to look, and not to worry about the pad holding part.
That’s assuming that the average person learning to fight has access to high level pass holders.
@@luizfabrette7450 that's only going to build a bad habit if that's the only training you do. A good training program will have days where you're on the bag, days where you're doing partner drills, days where you're sparring and days where you're doing pad work. All of them together plug holes that any one of them would have on their own. But not doing pad work leaves an extremely valuable tool on the table.
People make way too much of the pads being short or off center. In a fight, your opponent could be shorter, taller, fatter, thinner, defensive or mobile and you have to adjust to their dimensions on the fly. I've never not hit an opponent in the face just because they're taller and more centered than my pad man lol.
@@hoop6988 a good Muay Thai program will usually have the coach and sometimes a senior student rotate a round or two of pad time with each student.
@@channel-nv9xc well know that’s even worse because I’ve been to some gums where the coach and top students suck at holding pads.
I've thought this for years. Glad someone finally made a video for it.
Well, it’s an incorrect opinion so
One thing I love about pads is not teaching people its using the pads to train my reaction time and reducing flinch from strikes😂. My coach told me padwork is basically a partner drill but its great for training defense.
Just train defense during partner drills.
@@looFA_4 Doesn’t carry the same intensity as I make sure to have the pad as close to my face as possible and far enough to force my partner to fully extend their shots. I just tell them hit me with whatever and I’ll catch it. My partner gets a good workout where they get to hit a moving human shaped target with full power and intensity thus getting a great workout and I get to train reaction time, defense, and reduce flinch.
Let me tell you 3 months of that kind of padwork got rid of my flinch response. Also any good pad holder will hit back to make sure the partner is keeping defense in check. Hell this video is essentially what NOT to do with padwork as most padwork holders have no clue how to use it. Look up some great pad holders like Bryan Popejoy for an example
Well shit, I had a response typed out that I accidently deleted but the gist of it was that I agree the problem lies with pad holders and not so much the pads. I personally prefer shelling up to work on defense and if I get hit that's on me, although I understand not everyone's okay with that. When we did pad work at my gym, you weren't given that much freedom it was more set combos and at that point I'd rather be doing partner drilling.
I'm glad you've found a way to maximize pad work for yourself and your partners, but at the end of the day I'd rather use my body as a tool for my partners to learn. I also just don't like holding pads, maybe when I'm older I'll prefer holding pads over getting hit but for now that's not the case. So, at the end of the day it comes down to whatever works best for you or whatever you do to make what you've got work.
@@looFA_4 I agree though I will say I’m a heavyweight albeit a smaller one (6ft 1in at 227 pounds) so shelling up against the monsters at my gym, for example one guy is 6ft 8in and walks around 292 pounds but he’s trying to lose some bodyfat.
I can’t shell up because you can get hurt through the guard and before MMA and kickboxing I spent 16 years in Boxing as an ameteur and sparring partner for high level guys hell I was in Nonito Donaire’s camp because my dad was buddies with his head trainer at the time jonathan penalosa.
Unlike MMA boxing heavyweight is an infinite weightlclass meaning there’s no limit. For example recently for the WBA title champion Zheilei Zhang weighed in at 291 pounds against his opponent Joseph Parker who weighed in 247 pounds. Long winded description to say shelling up is good but once you spar or fight someone with natural born power or someone really good at breaking through guards start adding more to the shell. My coach always says if you want to be a shell grow some spikes like an urchin. Gotta get good at countering when the opportunity arises
ive always felt fighters over complicate training. there really is no substitute for fighting. just fight less often, less hard, or hit a bag. also, every fighter should do ACTUALL STRENGTH TRAINING if they are serious, and not that bs where they take a light weight and try to move it fast for seemingly infinite reps.
Fight COACHES over complicate training because teaching novelty techniques makes them look impressive to people who don't actually want to fight
As a very new striker with a year and a bit of grappling, I feel like I need more light sparring. Hitting pads is so awkward because if my partner spaces out and holds out the wrong pad then it just feels off. Even worse is that hitting pads just gives me false confidence because the moment we do sparring, I'm scared to get into striking range because I still have a terrible flinch reflex where i close my eyes and can't see shit.
I feel like working on defense for beginners would be so much more valuable, just like in BJJ. In BJJ you're supposed to focus on escapes and defense, so that you're not scared to start your own offense. That's exactly my problem in striking. I only throw teeps and leg kicks because they're low commitment. Once they figure that out, I just eat jabs and cover up.
What you need are partner drills, starting light and then over time getting more "intense". You'll learn to modify your flinch response from "close eyes, look away" to "slip, weave, catch, parry, block" etc. The sparring should come AFTER you have lots of reps actually executing defensive moves against incoming punches. As for teeps and low round kicks, you should start training side kicks and front snapping kicks. I know I know, not very Muay Thai-ish, but they work and help you be more aggressive with your kicks to close in and pummel with fists/elbows and then clinch/takedown.
@@athenry my gym does modified partner drills. They dont actually jab me on the face though, but we parry the jabs and straights. But for hooks we use the “helmet/telephone” block. I have zero flinch there, even when practicing slips and weaves. Imo it doesnt translate to sparring where they’re actually trying to hit you in the face.
Just like armchair said, in these drills where you parry, the jab doesnt even get close to me because i will reach out to parry it.
@@Silokkes there are drills you can do for desensitising yourself to flinching, one where you have your back to the wall and someone else lightly taps your on the forehead for example is good for beginners
also do you not use a high guard? as a beginner getting confortable with using a high guard and getting hit with it will help a lot with your confidence in sparring and being able to engage with people properly
@@Silokkes You should not reach out to parry a jab. That's a really good way to get faked by a jab feint and get hit with a left hook. Keep the parry nice and tight and use more body rotation instead of swatting your hand across.
Nothing "directly translates" to sparring except sparring, to be honest. Beginners ARE flinching, being too stiff, too tense, not breathing correctly, gassing out, etc. You have all these techniques and big plans and soon as the bell rings it all flies out the window and you're like"doh! What do I do?" That's normal. Over time, you get used to what's going on, you become more comfortable, and thus more relaxed and more fluid, you think more about what's actually happening and what your choices are, etc. In other words, you get better.
But that assumes the sparring is proper for your training level. It should be a LOT of light, technical, and most importantly FUN sparring. You should spar people who are better than you, bigger than you, smaller than you, less experienced and less trained than you, etc. People below your ability/age/size will give you opportunity to try things out and spar without being too stressed. People better and bigger than you will enable you to learn to operate under pressure. But if every spar is a hardcore bloodsport kumite deathmatch you are only going to dread it and flinch and activate every instinctive avoidance mechanism you have - and rightly so!
Flinching is instinctive, and even pros do it sometimes. It's just a matter of retraining your defensive instincts to be able to "flinch" in a more effective and defensively responsible manner. And that comes with repetition repetition repetition and exposure to sparring as something FUN which encourages and enables learning and progression. Nothing wrong with telling a sparring partner "Hey, can we go a bit easier?" Hard sparring is necessary EVERY NOW AND THEN if you plan on competing, but only EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE.
@@athenry thanks for the parry tips! But yeah i agree im thinking i should find another gym where they take the sparring more fun. Im like 3 classes in and taking painful shots, which i dont think should be happening right now probably.
Dude, pads are crazy important. Have you seen thai boxers use pads? Its 5, 5 minute rounds of hell.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds like you're describing the cardio workout aspect that he conceded to
@@OnwardUnknowing omfg no
You get cardio, yes, while learning angling and intuitive back and forth with your partner. There’s so many ppl here that have obviously never fought with such big opinions.
This coming from a boxer and Thai Boxer. I’ve put in countless hours of work. Mitt work, pad drills, bag work, sparring, and other partner drills all come together. It’s naive and childish to say one is better than the other. It depends on what you’re working on ffs
You gonna go to Thailand and tell Superbon and Trainer Gae that pad work is useless? Fuckin please
@@tyrusmfrechs7025 Honestly, great response. You’re right. Though I have fought and won my fights (only two so far), I kind of thought maybe the video had a point about cardio because our gym, which does lots of padwork, is known for being very cardio heavy, and it wins us fights. I was thinking of some other local gyms who don’t use pad work but still win some fights and thought the video must have some points. But you’re 100% right about the angling stuff and back and forth. Also talked to my Kru some about it and he mentioned that people who only do Dutch drills often end up hurting their forearms. Yeah, I wouldn’t want to go without padwork. I also think it helps practice putting combos together, with force. A bag can’t move back when you move forward on a double jab or 1-2. My first comment was dumb. My b.
Mitts for pad work didn't exist before the 1970s, so it can't be CRAZY important...
@@SuddenRushman mitts and pads are not the same thing
Oh it's you I didn't recognize you without the Batman shirt.
Would love to have you talking with Gabriel Varga about it. If i remember correctly he think pads are one if not the most important part of his training. Knowing why could be interresting
I agree with you and disagree of most the video message and I trust Varga more.
Varga probably has competent training partners and coaches and instructs good pad holding. A lot of people are terrible at it.
@@lihchong2267 Agree that there are terrible pad holders. But that is also true for light sparring or drill partners. I can agree on the video message that if you do not know how to punch or kick. Just hitting pads wrong will not improve the skill. But I think it is better and more fun hitting hard on pads with a good partner then a heavy bag.
@@Buri8128 agreed. A good pad holder will provide excellent impetus to work harder than solo drills on a heavy bag. Jake addresses this in the cardio argument.
@@lihchong2267 so pad holding isn’t the problem then. It’s bad pad holders. Bad pad holders come from bad coaches, that come from Armchair Violence McDojos
Nice to see you again, Mr Violence. Thanks for the commentary.
How about: visualization? Like with the speedbag, heavy bag or god forbid Kata you and your partner KNOW what target the pads are for and cater for it. The argument with kicking striking combos having false distance is lifted by you know the pad holder stepping back and holding the pads in the correct distance.
I .think pads are a good middle ground for training more committed strikes with speed while still being able to have accuracy.
i know I KNOW I will get flagged for it but look at olympique taekwondo athletes still doing padwork for accuracy and speed.
Most boxing gyms Ive trained in the padwork is usually done by the coach and often is when you get one on one time with him picking apart your technique. Rest of the time is shadow boxing, bags, skipping, partner drills, sparring, or downstairs to hell to meet the devil (the conditioning coach)
Pretty much. Early on when I needed clients, I held pads for everyone. It's easy to sell. Now, it's only for actual fighters and it's mostly a workout. There are a few more advantages of padwork you didn't cover, but they are extremely niche.
Agreed! It's a legitimate tool, but it's not the one-size-fits-all tool that I often see it used as.
Glad you’re still making videos!!
On the other hand, pad-work mimics being attacked by a dual-purse wielding hipster.
You've perfectly encapsulated my problems with pads and added points I haven't considered! Great vid!
6:50 You took her somewhere nice afterwards, right?
triangle city
Padwork doesnt suck; its just to easy for padholders to suck and learn the other guy very wrong habits
With that said; I do padwork very seldom
you mean teach the other guy wrong habits
"waiting until your opponent is ready is the opposite of how staking works." - fucking gem.
This is why gyms usually end up splitting striking classes in half, with people still stressed by striking on the mat with pads and the people that dont flinch in the ring(s) doing partner drills. Pads should be dropped once you've passed that threshold.
When I was a beginner, I was taught that pad holders should be training with the person striking. Your argument for just doing partner drills does make sense, but I think you're landing in a bit of slippery slope territory.
With beginners, it's not just getting punched that intimidates them. They're also worried about hitting other people and hurting them (in my experience). I find that pads are a great set of training wheels, because any hesitant person I've trained has had no reservations about hitting pads.
Aside from bridging that gap, the way I was taught to hold pads was to behave as an opponent and "learn defense" in the process of holding pads. My partner should be punching at my face and I should be stopping it from getting there with the pad. Like a parry. The "authenticity" of my padwork depends on my partner's level. With a beginner, I'll be like "here comes the hook train! Choo choo! Roll!" But with a person who has experience, I'll literally throw a hook with the pad. The distance needs to be correct for them to need to roll.
That comes full circle to your argument for partner drills, which, I agree are good. But I think padwork is good for more than cardio, no need for a hot take.
Pad holding as a "learn defense" method is probably one of the worst ideas. You don't learn defense while pad holding, You develop the habit of trying to catch your opponent's punches and when you go sparring, they start feinting and you end up with your hands catching nothing in the air and your chin exposed.
@@luizfabrette7450another thing about pad work is that it teaches the wrong type of parrying. I’ve seen some guys try to parry uppercuts when they’re already out of range or some guys try to catch crosses with their rear hand.
@@luizfabrette7450 You might be overlooking the part where I say your opponent should be punching at your head. If they aren't punching at your head, you don't need to put the pad in the way. Just like if your opponent isn't punching at you, you don't need to parry a punch.
@@ZovcDrafts you are correct about defending only when the punches are actually directed towards you. But even taking your point into account, what I said is the habit of trying to catch your opponent's punches (even if only the ones who are aimed "at your head") and when you go sparring, they start feinting and you end up with your hands catching nothing in the air and your chin exposed.
@@luizfabrette7450 this hasn't been my experience, but it seems like you really know what you're talking about.
i think you made me realise why i quit my last muay thai gym, it was the amount of pad work. I dont claim to know much about fighting so i wont address the actual points you made but from my pov i love combat sports yet couldnt get motivated enough to show up and i never understood why. now i get it, i didnt enjoy holding pads for 30 minutes nor hitting them for 30 when the same couldve been done on a heavybag (which we never did any of, it was pads every session). Thanks, was always wondering how i can enjoy the sport yet at the same time feel so unmotivated and this video helped it click in my head.
You did well quitting that gym. You can buy a heavy bag and learn way more by yourself watching youtube, which is sad..
@@user-ki4xw2rb8q Not true at all
My gym is the same, i will confront my father and the coach about it and if no changes are made i will leave.
@@mannam9468combat sport gym owners have to realize that their students are keeping them in business and not the staff. Fighters don’t know how much they sick at running a gym.
@@mannam9468 ive joined a different boxing gym (no other muay thais in my area) and its GREAT, never realised how much more motivated i am with zero padwork. Would recommend you switch if you can, coaches find it difficult to change their practices but all the best regardless bro
Armchair violence indeed. How many world class strikers have you built without good pad holding? All the problems you described are fixed by just having an excellent pad holder. A good striking coach should model this and every fight team member should be able to hold pads well for their ream members.
But his content isn't primarily targeted at world class strikers. It's mostly for hobbyists and the fact that you will struggle to find a good pad holder in your average gym is a valid concern. I do think he exaggerates this and overlooks a lot of the advantages of pads but there are reasonable criticisms here as well.
@@WhenYouveGoneGuruIndeed, fair point
Welcome back Mr. Violence! Can you do the same thing for takedowns and grappling. I run a bjj school and am open to looking at better ways to train my folks. For instance I am focused on doing techniques as warmup, Starting every lesson with a Takedown/Throw, Takedown/Throw counter, a guard pull from the feet or an escape from a negative position to guard before hitting the pass, sweep, backtake or submission. Love your work man!
You have some great points but pads are still very useful for striking skills.
When people throw strikes they are supposed to throw them with control- not just throw blindly.
You should be able to just strike a target and transfer your power into it without following all the way through.
This is where you get your “snap” in your strikes that the elite fighters have.
They actually don’t do the pads just for cardio- they literally can read where and what distance a pad is.
Throwing at immobile objects like heavy bags does not fully develop this skill.
Basically your partner should be able to just move their pad suddenly out of the way and you will stop your strike and pull back without following through.
This is that control that elite fighters have.
Pads are also great at developing combos and precision on a moving target and greatly increases punch accuracy.
I agree that partner drills are super important as well but they need to supplemented with skilled pad work. Good pad holders- truly good pad holders are worth their weight in gold at the upper levels of fighting.
How would it even be possible to learn striking solely using pads? Nobody does that.
Plenty try. I've been to many classes where all striking was done on pads - no drills, no heavy bag, no sparring. A lot of this is in the fitness space, but plenty of kickboxing classes operate this way too.
@@lihchong2267 U can learn if the padholder is a competent coach.
@ZeroBudgetDude You need something else though to learn how to punch and kick fast and hard. Either pads or bag.
Man, it was a while since i watched your video, so it was such a blees to see this on my feed today. You are my number one violence enjoyer with open mind and a sharp tongue. I watched all your videos and not a single one was a disappointement (well, the podcast ones make me sleepy, but i just dont like podcasts). I send my warmest thanks to you for teaching and inspiring me to learn from other sources and to have my mind open. Love to you!!❤❤❤
"B-But its tradition! All fighters do it!"
lmao
Same bs with skipping rope, somehow people consider it a must to be a good fighter, especially in boxing
It's actually a better cardio workout than jogging. If I remember correctly, according to Bruce Lee, 10 minutes of rope work is equivalent to 30 minutes of roadwork.
@@user-ki4xw2rb8q It is good because you train your feet and ankles. At some point there are diminishing returns but if you can't skip for like 10 minutes you are weak.
@@user-ki4xw2rb8qokay but it literally trains your footwork and helps to keep yourself light on your feet.
@@johnlloyddy7016 10 minutes of rope equivalent to 30min of running? Equivalent in what sense? That's total bs, if you wanna make running harder, just run faster, run a mile in under 5 min, and you will see how that's harder than 10min of rope
AV love you dude! This actually makes sense! KEEP IT UP!
Pretty much agree with everything you said, but HARD DISAGREE on heavy and double end bags being better tools for developing power/precision. Hitting pads feels WAY closer to hitting a person than hitting bags does. I think bags are just a decent substitute for when you dont have a partner to train with. Obviously you cant hit a 90 pound woman at 100% when you hit pads. But if you have someone similar size and experience to you available, then you can absolutely blast the pads. Thats like saying you cant roll with a 90 pound woman at full intensity, therefore sparring isnt effective for jujitsu. Theres also something to be said about engagement in the activity. With a good pad holder, I could 100% hit pads for close to an hour without being bored. Hitting the heavy bag for an hour would feel like a sisyphusian endeavor in comparison. All in all l, i think if the main training method is partner drills with some padword sprinkled in to monitor your technique when hitting full power, then you arent really wasting any time imo.
I had just literally paused my membership to my gym because of this issue and this video pops up. You tube's algorithm is creepy. Great work man..
I still really like pad rounds *with a good holder****. Our gym teaches that you just barely pat down by a tiny ammount at the last seccond so that they're not coming forward so much. We spar light daily so we can learn everything pads cant teach you but I love pad rounds because theyre the most dynamic way that I can throw anything in a combo at a whatever power I want. Hard to spar with elbows knees punches kicks clinch etc. We get 3 rounds each of pads a decent bit of bag work and some drills then sparring. Pad work deffinently has a place because unless you're absolutely murdering you're sparing partners it's hard to get certain things nicely from other methods. Sparring is king but I dont feel like eating a tomahawk elbow.
Partner drilling is easier said than done. Beginners have huge issues controlling and knowing how to do things light. Hell even a lot of intermediate people don't know how to flow spar. Yet I agree partner drilling/flow sparing you learn much more.
Padwork teaches the holder hand defense, combinations etc. Many people hit pads because it work, when done right. Useless if it’s done wrong.. partner drills are great but different
Good food for thought. I can’t wait for Icy Mike’s two cents on this
Hitting pads it's functional, it all depends if the coach is good at it
A difference I've noticed is that when we mess up a combo on pads, we're more likely to stop/ pull or reset because we don't want to miss the pads or hurt our partner. But when we're doing partner drills, people more naturally seem to to adjust and make their mistakes a different attack. This is the correct response we want to instill for when we see our target change mid-attack. Partner drills give us a better feel for when we're actually in position for the technique, different ones we can use if it fails etc.
You are the best RUclipsr in regards to combat sports I have ever seen I wish I could find more people like you
its great that I find your channel. I also have my fair share of problems with how most people do pad work, but I think what u are talking about has more to do with how people hold pads WRONG. for example, I hold pads right next to my head, for the exact purpose of teaching the right distance. of course this comes at a higher risk, but so far I have not been hit in the face by accident because I work on students being more accurate than power punches in pad works, which is another one of your good points: pad work is for movements un like heavy bags. once students are good enough to be safe in true distance pad works, It give them more chance to strike with true movements of two person, which is an other big part of what I try to accomplish in pad works: seeing the opportunity and strike. which I don't prearrange the combo as much, but show them the targets and ask them to see it and act on it.
I completely agree with this: I had a Muay Thai fight and afterwards my kicks on the padwork sucked, because no one was holding the pads properly so I would need to change accurate kicks for bad form.
It's absolutely a horrible gearing up for sparring and means you have to make accomodations. You're better off doing bag work and sparring and just rinse and repeat. In fact, just put on regular gloves and shin guards and do drills like in the video.
No. You use pad work to practice muscle memory, power, cardio and speed. Sure if you have a bad pad-holder it sucks but that's usually a beginners issue. Once you start fighting , your team and your coaches knows how to hold pads proper. This is honestly a weird video seeing as all the best fighters from Muay thai to mma to boxing to bareknuckle boxing etc use pads. The whole distance example is again only a factor with a bad pad holder. It sucks, but so does having a bad sparring or drill partner. The concept works and the results have been seen for as long as there have been pads around.
Muscle memory? That term doesn't hold up well to scrutiny.
Fighting skills are way more about timing and space than fighting techniques.
Pads can help develop fighting techniques. They don't help much with fighting skills.
Techniques are not the same as skills.
Watching this again. AV you are the best man, keep it up!
Pads were invented because punching bags are expensive and many Thai gyms couldn't afford a punching bag for every fighter so the pads are a way for people to still practice hitting with power but they are mobile and can be taken to a match so the fighter can practice in the gym. The best pad is probably the belly pad because you can just hit someone in the stomach. Some boxers went to Thailand once and saw people using sandals as pads for punching so they wouldn't hurt each other's hands and decided to invent focus mitts.
I have never been a fan of pads to be perfectly honest. There are so many punching bags you can use that do everything so much better. The rounda whirl bag might hit you in the face if you have bad head movement and it's unpredictable.
Do you think a coach wearing only a belly pad and getting in the ring with a student help teach ring strategy. Just to not be uncomfortable getting hit with teeps or something... would this help?
This explains why professional boxers are such horrible strikers
Yea exactly 😂. Let's stop doing what has worked for professionals for years because a scrawny RUclips kid in a video told me to
@@TruLuan his whole video isnt exactly why "pads suck" but why "pad holders often suck". Boxers can afford really good coaches who can hold pads really well. Compared to bad pad holders. And not to mention. His better option. Partner drilling. Is really often used by said professional boxers.
Padwork is useful only to drill muscle memory with hard striking without potentially injuring someone. Also my pad holder is only my coach
I think it is very valid critique. Still I think there are some benefits that were left out, e.g. practicing fast reaction: I show you need to punch immediately, practicing guard: Your guard is open, I hit you, practicing some distancing: you don’t retreat fast enough, I hit you etc.
This Mixing Kicks and Punches bugs me. As here distancing is really somewhat messed up… also I think it is good to do some padwork (holder shows you where you have flaws) and some of the strike works you talked about (you get to see the actual distancing and the actual possibilities for strike backs).
I think keeping the pad holder safe is good for some scenarios as you mentioned, especially when the holder is allowed to add some punches when the striker doesn’t have solid guard. It prevents the whole thing from ppl flailing at each other and spiraling to oblivion.
But as always, very good food for thought.
Great points. An excellent replacement for pad holding is striking the century bob!
The way my coach holds pads we might as well be sparring 😂
Cop: Sir, you’re under arrest for public indecency”
Me: I’m wearing my Jon jones jersey
I always knew there was a reason I didnt see the point of pad work but I couldnt put my finger on it.
I agree that pad work shouldn't be done at full power. But its just so damn satisfying
I had to correct some of my students when they start sparring for aiming and punching at their partner's hands. Muscle memory built from pad work. Personally i don't hit pads anymore. I only do drills, sparring, and different types of bag works. But I gotta say, holding pads is not a waste of time. You learn timing of people's strikes, and learn to use your brain to memorize combos and such. But after a certain skill level, you don't need as much pad work, drills are probably more beneficial. Especially a lot of those really complicated intricate pad work we see on social media can be completely replaced by drills.
This is more of a critique on bad pad holding that you find in cardio kickboxing than actual pad holding. Good pad holders make adjustments for all of these things.
If your partner sucks, you won't get better, which applies to every aspect of training
Also as far as hitting hard while doing pad work, just don't train with lil boys. There are a few guys I've trained with that everyone says hit super hard and they all complain about sore forearms/legs after, but that's just killing 2 birds with 1 stone. You get your conditioning in while holding pads. Same reason I don't really bother checking leg kicks in sparring
Partner drills pad work , heavy bag, double end bag,
Light playful sparring and ocasional hard sparring are how you get good at striking. Shadow boxing has a place as warm up and cool downs as well.
Shit. The moment he pointed out that you shouldn't throw with power at pads I had a revelation. "Oh my god, im an asshole."
Agreed. Hitting pads is a great conditioning tool, but should never replace more specific training modalities like drilling or sparring.
Least provocative armchair violence video 😂
High level coaches that know how to hold and can help a fighter develop stategy are priceless
I respectfully disagree with almost everything you said but I can see your point
Now you angered the pad industry. Seems you like to live dangerous!😂
Love it when you show thingy with other people. I love your Videos, they are so good
Padwork is not a substitute for partner drilling; they're complimentary.
Your joints have mechanoreceptors that require the feedback from contact to fully adapt, and allows you to train various changes in combinations, distance and angle against a moving target *with contact.*
A rough hierarchy might look like:
1. Solo technical work
2. Solo (various) bag work
3. Pad work
4. positional sparring
5. Technical sparring
Distance and timing are roughed out with pad work and refined in positional and technical sparring.
They have their uses and their limitations. No training method is fighting; they're all approximations, or modles of flights. All models are wrong (but some are useful.) There are no solutions, only tradeoffs. It's all a matter of using the right tool, at the right time, in the right dose.
Fun fact: the great Mexican boxer Julio César Chávez never used pad work for the same reasons. He also thought speed bags were bogus
My boxing gym does do pad work, obviously. But we definitely do more partner drilling and bag work. With partner drilling, it’s definitely “don’t knock your partner out, please” lol
This makes me really appreciate my University's boxing society. The only people who hold pads are the trained instructors and they never move the pads towards us, since there are more students than instructors we have to rotate between which student can do pad work, and when that happens everyone who isn't doing pads is instructed to either work on a bag or do light contact exercises with a partner, so the pad to other excercise ratio is good. Also their pad excercises are less about getting used to hitting pads and more about giving each student one on one time with a instructor so they can observe and correct form. Thanks for helping me see how lucky I am to have instructors who know what they're doing
I agree 99% and I would love to see more content on ways commercial fight gyms completely waste your time, because they do. I hate pad work unless I'm with an actual coach, don't get someone with no idea what he's doing to hold pads for me and waste time both me and him are paying you for!
Anyway, I have some minor disagreements on it being completely useless:
1. You can uppercut and include the uppercut in a combo which you can't do on a heavy band
2. You can throw a hook closer to the correct distance, on a heavy bag you're throwing it out to the side, which teaches you to load up
I don't think it's completely useless for the pad holder, it helps you stay calm with strikes hitting your arms but I suppose partner drilling does that even better so there's not much point.
Overall I agree, we'd be better off not having it as part of regular training, maybe only doing it with an experienced holder right before a fight.
Also if you have to do it, I think you should just repeat the same multi strike combo for a round. That shit where they pick the strike and you have to react each time is unnecessarily difficult for both the striker and the pad holder in a way that doesn't translate to actual fighting skill, as you said about many other aspects of pad holding.
Thank goodness my gym doesn't do that. Every other gym I've had did and when sparring I almost always came short.
I love you.
Just did Pad work in Kickboxing today.
I recently switched over to a generally excellent gym, but the one thing that drives me bananas is the striking class' heavy reliance on pads. After watching this video, I'm trying to come up with little ways to mitigate the deficiencies - holding closer to the actual target, making my partner chase after the kicks to follow up with punches, moving more quickly so they can work at a higher pace....they seem to be improving the experience. But, it is telling that so many fixes are just nudging it closer to partner-drilling territory.
Can't go 100% when partner drilling.
The whole class drilling at the lowest common denominator is a big thing
I hate constant padwork too, it just reduces the time for sparring. x.x
Its so simple: to get better at a martial art, which is fighting, just practice fighting. 🙌
No, I tried that. It didn't work.
"A striking-inspired cardio workout." Well put.
I agree with your criticisms of padwork, but many of them can be overcome with more useful pad holding techniques and other tools, such as body pads. I keep the pads closer to my face, and don't really swing the pads into the strike. This makes it a bit more injurious to the holder, but it's better training. I tend to use Thai pads, a leg pad and a body pad so that my client has better and more realistic options for striking, and doesn't have to wait for me to be in position in order to throw. It lets the padwork become more freeform, and he can strike at different targets based off of the range, rather than just doing a set combination. Also, there's no reason why you can't throw realistic strikes back at your client while holding pads, you just have to control your strikes the same as you would in a partner drill.
Basically, I came to the same conclusions you did and do padwork in ways that I think are more useful than the standard methods.
As far as partner drills and heavy bag training goes, they botv have some limitations. In partner drills, like you said, you can't throw hard. I have found that this can lead to some bad muscle memory when trying to spar hard or fight, especially with kicks. Heavy bags are great, but they don't move enough for more than one or 2 strikes to be realistic. Your padholder should be moving, forcing you to chase them down or react to other movements as you're doing your combination so that you can work on more realistic footwork. After all, opponents rarely stand still to be hit. You could get this benefit from a partner drill as well, but you can't really practice stepping and using falling steps and your forward momentum to power your strikes as much, which is how I prefer to strike.
Basically, when I teach a public class I mostly use partner drills and heavy bag work; when I do a private lesson I use a lot of padwork, but in ways that I think are better than many other coaches do.
Yeah everytime i spar i miss every punch to the face. Land some kicks and body shots but but thats it
I will say I've noticed too. I kinda have to retrain my brain for a second everytime I start sparring because my first few punches always float a little bit away from their face until I recalibrate
if I'm coaching someone I'm first putting them on pads to first get the techniques correct and make sure they understand to enter/exit and keep hands up. once they have good control over the new techniques you can trust them to do partner drills.
I swear this guy just makes bullsh*** up to rant about with false rage just for the views. Pretty soon, "Listen guys training to fight is the absolute WORST way to learn how to fight!"
Everything he is saying is either a straw man or describing inefficient pad holders. He is only displaying his ignorance about martial arts.
Pad drilling has tons of benefits such as cardio, endurance, power while moving around, and the pad holder works on hand eye coordination and seeing punches and kicks thrown toward them at full speed.
It's not as if people cannot do both pad work and partner drills. This kid is such a dork. It's like anyone who can edit a video and rant with a smug arrogance is youtube famous now.
Tell Mike Tyson his pad work was a total waste of his time.
I’m with you on the partner drills/light sparring being superior to pad work. Excessive emphasis on looking great on the pads (in which the pad holder is actually the one making the striker appear to be good) on these long excessive speedy choreographed combos are common on IG…and you’ll see those same people look completely clueless when shadow boxing , sparring, or doing bag work.
Definitely. I’ve learned you really just do 3 strike combos for the most part when you fight.
I feel like i got better at parrying punches and noticing telegraphs from holding pads, dont think i got any better at striking by hitting them tho 😅
He describes the effect of bad pad holding technique / plocies. Where I train the aim is to hold pads close to the face, hit / kick back at times, striker goes full power. I find holding pads beenficial as I need to learn to see punches / kicks coming to respond to be effective and safe.
Im work on shadow boxing for hours,work all...My game had huge improvment
This is why I use a cobra bag and a reflex bar.