Thanks for joining us! This was a lot of fun. Be sure to check out all the channels for everyone involved with this discussion. And... How do you feel about Christopher Columbus's legacy? Are people too hard on him? Are they too easy on him?
Mr. Beat personally he deserves every criticism handed to him being an idiot who thought that the earth was smaller than it was also murdering thousands and maybe millions of people
@@ryanjapan3113 Even the ancient greeks knew that the Earth was round way before Colombus look up Eratosthenes. Moreover I would prefer Leif Erikson day as he never was recorded to commit genocide and rape, Hinga Hinga Dinga Durgen!!
I have mixed feelings. I recognize the fact that he did 'discover' the americas for all intensive purposes. But he also was a bit of a horrible person and did some atrocious things. I dont know what to think of him tbh. What I do know is that erasing the fact that he did sail across the Atlantic and bring the west to the new world from history isn't a good idea.
I'm from Mexico, and Columbus doesn't have that reputation here, he's seen as an explorer and a sailor, although he isn't a historical figure whom is very studied at school. The villain here is Hernán Cortés definitely. The first person to prove the earth is round myth is more persistent here.
When I watched this I realized how difficult it can be to maintain a purely neutral/unbiased voice and rhetoric ESPECIALLY when tackling a topic as heavy as this. Hats off to you guys for jumping into this historical minefield so willingly and professionally. Looking forward to your future collabs :)
I live in the Dominican Republic and we don't talk about him that much. When it comes to colonialism, we talk more about Ovando, Oviedo, and Osorio. History kept going, and while he is an incredibly important figure in my country's history, we know he didn't cause every facet of colonialism and slavery
Historians don’t pick sides...they educate the public on what happened before. Historians must be bipartisan, we must expose the truth from both the winners AND losers. That is our duty to those less educated....
@robertsd247 watch Columbus or Gandhi video on knowing better if you think those aren't as neutral as possible than I am guessing that neutral to you is agreeing with every single thing you believe
THe problem is that modern leftists genuinely do not believe that they are biased. They wrongly think facts and evidence are on their side, so they espouse extremist political opinions as if they are fact, and claim to be unbiased when they are actually so steeped in bias that it's like a fish in an aquarium - it doesn't know what water is, because it's all it has ever known.
"Historians don’t pick sides" Then every "historian" that has written about ww1 and ww2 are not real historians. In fact most historians throughout history has been partisan. If you want to explore the true history you have to view all current history as propaganda in favor of the "winners"
MrMcausome And learning Knowing Better is in the Rockies makes me wonder if I could bring him chicken soup from Denver. He tweeted about single-digit temps, so he’s probably farther north - unless he also speaks Metric at home. Until seeing this video, I thought he might be in the Twin Cities or somewhere similar. Guess I should be content being a Patreon ....
Columbus is one of those figures who is often used as a synecdoche for colonialism. As such, most of the animosity directed towards him has less to do with his individual life than it does what he has come to represent.
Well, there seem to me to be 4 issues- celebration of him in the US, his reliance on luck as a navigator against his errors, the question of "discovery", and many of the consequences that followed. 1. Yes, he never touched the soil of the United States. Yes, his holiday was mainly a sop to the growing Italian-American community wanting a celebration and to merge their identity with that of the US. Meh. There must be sillier commemorations than that for worse reasons all over the world. No need to press authenticity that hard, unless Italian Americans can be persuaded to honor Verrazano. 2. Yep, he miscalculated the distance to Asia and would have died if there hadn't been an unknown hemisphere in the middle distance. Others had calculated it correctly and assumed the voyage impossible for just that reason. Meh. Of such gambles is glory won. If humans ever navigate the stars, it will be again. And many others will die because their unknown planet isn't there after all. 3. If one is of pure Amerindian aboriginal ancestry, it's a fair question. Everyone who has full or partial Old World ancestry,which is most people in the Americas, less so. For the almost all in North America who are Old World descendants, less so yet. For the civilizations to which we are heirs, Columbus discovered something none of us really knew about [unless from Norse myth or dusty Ottoman maps] and made it real for us. He did what others of the Old World had not yet done, if only durably, and what no New World culture had shown itself capable of conceiving, to attempt in the reverse. That's about as much discovery as one ever really gets in history. 4. Yep. Horrible, even the parts that were actually the result of human agency, never mind unchecked biology. And even the smaller scale versions of it practiced by Columbus himself. Not at all convinced this should be the decisive factor- There were people then who had a more familiar moral view of how aboriginal peoples should be treated, but his actions simply weren't that out of keeping with the general run of human behavior in most of history on every continent to weigh entirely in the balance against him.
"...revisionsit history, which, sometimes, is what we really need- but..." Mr. Beat, what???? EIDT: I expressed my outrage about 5 minutes before he cleared what he meant by that lol
At University age, my Australian cousin had no idea who Columbus was. I don't know if that's a matter of Australian schools just not mentioning it, or if it was just a small enough point that he'd forgotten.
James Cooke is Australia's Columbus, and just like Columbus, Cooke wasn't the first person to discover or explore the continent but gets all the credit haha.
+Spencer Kindra Indeed. It was a surprise to me that they'd never heard of Columbus, since I myself was well aware of Cook from childhood, though in hindsight, I might not have been familiar with him if my mum weren't from Australia.
I didn't realise you had a holiday for Columbus. That is kind of weird given he never went to the land that became the USA. A bit like having a Vasco da Gama day, he didn't go their either. In fact if you had a holiday for everyone who never went there you wouldn't ever have to work.
The United States would not exist in its current form if Columbus did not advocate for those voyages when no one wanted to fund him. Hell, I wouldn't exist if he didn't do it the way that he did. I'm the product and Spanish and indigenous mixing after all.
@@gamermapperthe Holiday yes Naming the Country of Colombia and the DC District After him was Not (of course) because of italian Americans that didn’t even exist. It was legit because he changed history Forever. Might be luck. Might be that he changed it in a Bad way. But he indeed changed it. It’s Like if in italian school they didn’t teach about Attila because he was “the scourge of God” or not teaching Jewish Kids the holocaust. Is something is important doesn’t matter if it’s positive or negative they must be teached. If we only teach history without the tragic Parts we have a very Short and falsified View of history or am I crazy? Not Tesching Columbus is like Not teaching ww2 to japanese because it was bad. It’s erasing history.
We love Christopher Columbus here in Ohio, we named are state capital city after him! Which is also the home of the THEE Ohio State University Buckeyes.
For example, I felt the disagreement @42:18 ish never really got resolved, which is fine. Another example might be the disagreement somewhere about the number of family members/brothers of Columbus. It would have been interesting to hear a bit of discussion of the sources on these topics.
@Mr. Beat, Definitely a lot of agreement throughout the video, and I am thankful for people like you taking the time to discuss topics. I'm looking forward to another discussion sometime.
As a high school student, we didn’t really learn about Columbus as a person or much about him at all. He was just clumped in with the rest of the explorers of the renaissance era. Any extensive knowledge I’ve learned about Columbus has been from RUclips’s videos such as this one and knowing better’s. We are taught a lot more about Native Americans than any of the renaissance explorers.
As a Lakota Sioux I feel I can offer some perspective that many of the people in my life have on Columbus. Yes we know that he didn't directly do anything to us directly of course. The reason why he is especially vilified is because of the precedence he set for our entire hemisphere and why our population was nearly wiped out completely. Yes indeed we place all the negative feelings from the deeds of so many on one man, we do this to Hitler or Stalin as well. They might have never went into Poland themselves amd murdered Civilians but we attribute it to them anyway even though on the ground in the time it was perpetrated by other men. And the same with Colonial times, indeed Columbus wasn't there to directly cause the suffering of north and south americans but it definitely was ushered in with his journey.
Also I am from Denver where our Italian community voted to make this a Holiday in the first place. I've been told that they did so not to revere him for his role in discovering America necessarily but more-so because Italian Americans didn't have a central historical guy they could point to since Italy wasn't really a country until relatively recently in history. (This is all word of mouth stuff from an Italian man from here in Denver. Never confirmed his affirmations so if I am incorrect sorry.
@@thegreatgreenmenace4050 I can totally sympathize with this opinion. He is definitely a symbol of colonialism and doesn't deserve to have a day. As I said in the video I'm 100% on board with ditching Columbus Day. I think we all agreed on that.
@Stefan Milo @Mr. Beat. Sorry I didn't mean to come across as if I were against any of the opinions in the video. I just wanted to give the Lakota perspective while it was being discussed while my thoughts were fresh. Thank you guys for the discussion.
That feeling when all you wanted was to sail in the opposite direction to add spices to your food in a faster time frame and you end up becoming synonymous as the kickstarter for colonial empires and slavery.
@Ksch Koff possibly. But like most things. If they were to take out Columbus day, eventually in maybe 20+ years it would already faded enough. The key thing is the education that is provided in the schools to be much more up to date and America is riddled with too many out dated books. I remember a news report some time after 9-11 that stated how there were still some public schools providing text books with pre Berlin Wall historical education and others that didn't have enough money for simple telescopes.
The people who want Columbus Day off the calendar want to replace it with Indigenous peoples day because they believe he was responsible for their near extinction so they want to combat this evil
I was trying to find Knowing Better's video on Columbus but I can't find it. This video and critic's responses are the only things that are left to be found.
I think part of the issue here in the U.S., at least in my experience, is the bait-and-switch aspect of the story. In elementary school up until about age 12, you learn that "Christopher Columbus discovered America", that phrase over and over again. Then in your teens, you start to realize, "How could he have discovered America if there were already people here?" The way Columbus is taught has a problematic aspect of Native-erasure that he gets blamed for. I remember in middle school, at about age 13, it became popular for people to say "Christopher Columbus didn't actually discover America. The Native Americans did." When you find out he wasn't this great infallible hero, that means he must be evil. If you were lied to about who discovered America, what other things about Christopher Columbus were lies? I think if we taught that he "brought North America to the attention of colonial Europe" or he "encountered numerous American civilizations" instead of he "discovered America", I think we wouldn't feel such a strong animosity toward Columbus.
I agree he my have not discovered American but he opened both North and South America to the rest of the world which is how the united states was made.
I wanna call it discovery day because some crazy Spaniards discovered some crazy Indians and some crazy Indians discovered some crazy Europeans. Then shit got real. Honestly though I would be fine with sharing the day and calling it Columbus/indigenous day! 😏
The indigenous people had federations, though. And we copied their model of government to make the United States. We also learned how to grow corn from them. We once tried to learn from the native peoples. There were also a lot of large civilizations that sprung up without farm animals. The Incas for example. We assume farm animals are needed to make large civilizations. Racism was once about tribalism. It didn’t mean anything about skin color before. It became expanded to surface differences during the time when skulls and physical differences were being studied to show which species were less evolved than others. Surface differences were posited to show which species were less evolved. We do something similar to Neanderthals. They’ve discovered that living humans share 2% - 3% dna with Neanderthals. This means Neanderthals didn’t die out. Who knows if we share parts of our culture with them? How did we think they died out? We think that because physical features looked different from what we see today. And that’s about it.
You do realise that the American system was based off the Roman system more than most other forms of government. Also the no animal aspect is important not becuase they couldn't make large civilizations. It was important because it meant those civs could never expand very far. The aztecs were a realitively small state when the spanish rocked up because the couldn't project power.
Adam Carroll ruclips.net/video/79RApCgwZFw/видео.html We got representative democracy from Rome. We didn’t get the federation model. Before the World Wars necessitated the European Union to settle differences, Europe was completely incapable of sharing power between states. They knew nothing but conflict between them and their neighbors until that conflict became too costly to bear. The federation model between states came from indigenous Americans. Have you seen the vast and large holdings of the Incas? I have. In person. I guarantee you the wheel is useless in the Andean Mountains, anyhow. Yet they still controlled more mountain and valley than modern day Peru or Columbia combined, which also means they controlled more land in much more difficult terrain than most European countries today or in the past.
Columbus completely miscalculated. He thought he could make it and was fortunate to have landed in the “West Indies” because he and his crew were already running out of supplies. And still had to cross the Pacific Ocean, which is bigger than the Atlantic.
That none of you understand that go back to 1790 and Washington not only worked December 25th but also October 12th. Columbus Day was celebrated here and there but it was celebrated in large measure because Columbus was Italian. The Ku Klux Klan would go after black people. And that included Irish and Italians. We were going through my grandmothers papers after she died and came upon here passport from 1912 and on it under Race it said Black. She was born in Italy in the Piedmont region in Northern Italy but to American officials she was black. The Irish had Saint Patrick and the Italians had Columbus. There was increased Columbus activity after the Klan lynched a large group of Italians. And if you look at arguments about the large groups of immigrants that were coming in from 1850 on, one of the key argue was these immigrants are not Protestant and were not white. They were Irish, Italian, Polish …. What happened? They were assigned hero’s to try to find things the current citizens could understand and slowly the government declared them “white”. Now is it any wonder that just as the Irish would fight if we said Saint Patrick’s Day will be known as Indigenous Saints Day that you have Italian Communities that have festivities around Columbus Day and they have been fighting back. The proper thing to do is have a … I was going to say Indigenous Peoples Day or Native American Day but maybe it should be where you call it the Thames of the peoples who lived in your state.And perhaps Columbus Day could become Italian Pride Day. One thing that is interesting about the early explorers is how many were Italian. Columbus ( maybe), Verrazano, Vespucci, and John Cabot( Giovanni Caboto).
I really like some of Knowing Better's videos but I found his Columbus video first and the way he argued around why Columbus wasn't that bad really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't remember any specific things off the top of my head right now, but what he says in this video that it doesn't make sense for plains indians to be saying "F#@! Columbus" because "what did he do to you" I mean he didn't directly do anything to my people in Colombia either, but am I not allowed to feel anger towards him and what he did to the Taíno people? Even if I weren't part Native, why not give him an "F#@! you"? He did terrible things-as Knowing better said. And the decimation of Hispaniola's Native population was one of the largest mass dyings in history at the time-so is it really not fair to compare him to Hitler? That was almost 500 years later, the technology was very different, but the magnitude wasn't that far off: tens of thousands versus millions. So yeah like he didn't show up and kill literally everyone-he wasn't even here that long, okay. point taken. but he killed so many people when was here he did so many awful terrible things when he was here. fuck him. yay like don't get me wrong im all for getting the facts straight, but also like can we do that without being neutral about him? Like idk one thing i remember about the video was that it felt like Knowing Better was defending him a bit too strongly lol like rather than the video being "columbus didn't do everything you think he did" the video felt more like "columbus really wasn't that bad of a guy you guys" anyway sorry ill probably keep adding to this these are my thoughts about what Knowing Better said around 7:30
American History 538ad - 1798ad 1,260 years 1492 Daniel 7:25 , Revelation 11,12 1492 Christopher Columbus The Man of Lawlessness 2 Thess. 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction The beast of the Earth Revelation 13 :11-18 1492* between the dark ages 538 ad-1798ad 1,260 years Christopher Columbus is the Beast of the Earth the horned animal like a lamb with two horns meaning two countries , who spoke as Satan means the name - Christopher means , "like Christ or bearing Christ or Anointed" (Yahusha is the lamb Columbus is false lamb) The two horns represents the two countries in Europe Italy aka Lombards (Columbus) and Spain aka Visigoths (Cortes,Cabrillo) spoke as Satan meaning they are Papacy Roman Catholic.
Thanks for joining us! This was a lot of fun. Be sure to check out all the channels for everyone involved with this discussion.
And...
How do you feel about Christopher Columbus's legacy? Are people too hard on him? Are they too easy on him?
Mr. Beat personally he deserves every criticism handed to him being an idiot who thought that the earth was smaller than it was also murdering thousands and maybe millions of people
@@ryanjapan3113 Even the ancient greeks knew that the Earth was round way before Colombus look up Eratosthenes.
Moreover I would prefer Leif Erikson day as he never was recorded to commit genocide and rape, Hinga Hinga Dinga Durgen!!
I have mixed feelings. I recognize the fact that he did 'discover' the americas for all intensive purposes. But he also was a bit of a horrible person and did some atrocious things. I dont know what to think of him tbh. What I do know is that erasing the fact that he did sail across the Atlantic and bring the west to the new world from history isn't a good idea.
I'm from Mexico, and Columbus doesn't have that reputation here, he's seen as an explorer and a sailor, although he isn't a historical figure whom is very studied at school. The villain here is Hernán Cortés definitely.
The first person to prove the earth is round myth is more persistent here.
I wouldn't exist without Hernan Cortes. No mestizo would.
When I watched this I realized how difficult it can be to maintain a purely neutral/unbiased voice and rhetoric ESPECIALLY when tackling a topic as heavy as this. Hats off to you guys for jumping into this historical minefield so willingly and professionally. Looking forward to your future collabs :)
Unscripted knowing better sounds so weird
Can confirm. He did.
What are u even saying
I live in the Dominican Republic and we don't talk about him that much. When it comes to colonialism, we talk more about Ovando, Oviedo, and Osorio. History kept going, and while he is an incredibly important figure in my country's history, we know he didn't cause every facet of colonialism and slavery
Historians don’t pick sides...they educate the public on what happened before. Historians must be bipartisan, we must expose the truth from both the winners AND losers. That is our duty to those less educated....
@robertsd247 watch Columbus or Gandhi video on knowing better if you think those aren't as neutral as possible than I am guessing that neutral to you is agreeing with every single thing you believe
But it's not true. Historians pick sides, and pick sides all the time.
THe problem is that modern leftists genuinely do not believe that they are biased. They wrongly think facts and evidence are on their side, so they espouse extremist political opinions as if they are fact, and claim to be unbiased when they are actually so steeped in bias that it's like a fish in an aquarium - it doesn't know what water is, because it's all it has ever known.
"Historians don’t pick sides" Then every "historian" that has written about ww1 and ww2 are not real historians. In fact most historians throughout history has been partisan. If you want to explore the true history you have to view all current history as propaganda in favor of the "winners"
Read Howard Zinn's perspective on being neutral and not taking sides, I find it very enlightening.
Knowing better sounds so sick... Poor thing. Hope he feels better ❤❤❤
MrMcausome And learning Knowing Better is in the Rockies makes me wonder if I could bring him chicken soup from Denver. He tweeted about single-digit temps, so he’s probably farther north - unless he also speaks Metric at home. Until seeing this video, I thought he might be in the Twin Cities or somewhere similar. Guess I should be content being a Patreon ....
"there aren't very many people in world history to like"
I found that thoroughly enjoyable. Thanks for having me chaps
You were great. Thanks for joining us! I finally got to talk to you "in person." lol
Loved your thoughts on Christopher Columbus Stefan Milo!
@@GregPreece thanks internet stranger!
Great Collab. I hope there's many more to come in the future.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it. We are hoping to do these regularly on different channels.
Columbus is one of those figures who is often used as a synecdoche for colonialism. As such, most of the animosity directed towards him has less to do with his individual life than it does what he has come to represent.
Kind of intimidating when Calico Jack speaks and the screen fills with swords and a skull.
He's really a very nice, non-threatening person in real life. I promise. 😄
Thanks for doing this guys.
Thanks for watching! :D
Reading Through History gets up at Noon.
I figured you would be going to bed right around the time we started. lol
Nice man-bangs, Mr. Beat.
Well, there seem to me to be 4 issues- celebration of him in the US, his reliance on luck as a navigator against his errors, the question of "discovery", and many of the consequences that followed.
1. Yes, he never touched the soil of the United States. Yes, his holiday was mainly a sop to the growing Italian-American community wanting a celebration and to merge their identity with that of the US. Meh. There must be sillier commemorations than that for worse reasons all over the world. No need to press authenticity that hard, unless Italian Americans can be persuaded to honor Verrazano.
2. Yep, he miscalculated the distance to Asia and would have died if there hadn't been an unknown hemisphere in the middle distance. Others had calculated it correctly and assumed the voyage impossible for just that reason. Meh. Of such gambles is glory won. If humans ever navigate the stars, it will be again. And many others will die because their unknown planet isn't there after all.
3. If one is of pure Amerindian aboriginal ancestry, it's a fair question. Everyone who has full or partial Old World ancestry,which is most people in the Americas, less so. For the almost all in North America who are Old World descendants, less so yet. For the civilizations to which we are heirs, Columbus discovered something none of us really knew about [unless from Norse myth or dusty Ottoman maps] and made it real for us. He did what others of the Old World had not yet done, if only durably, and what no New World culture had shown itself capable of conceiving, to attempt in the reverse. That's about as much discovery as one ever really gets in history.
4. Yep. Horrible, even the parts that were actually the result of human agency, never mind unchecked biology. And even the smaller scale versions of it practiced by Columbus himself. Not at all convinced this should be the decisive factor- There were people then who had a more familiar moral view of how aboriginal peoples should be treated, but his actions simply weren't that out of keeping with the general run of human behavior in most of history on every continent to weigh entirely in the balance against him.
"...revisionsit history, which, sometimes, is what we really need- but..."
Mr. Beat, what????
EIDT: I expressed my outrage about 5 minutes before he cleared what he meant by that lol
Knowing better - I love the starcraft concept art
At University age, my Australian cousin had no idea who Columbus was. I don't know if that's a matter of Australian schools just not mentioning it, or if it was just a small enough point that he'd forgotten.
James Cooke is Australia's Columbus, and just like Columbus, Cooke wasn't the first person to discover or explore the continent but gets all the credit haha.
+Spencer Kindra Indeed. It was a surprise to me that they'd never heard of Columbus, since I myself was well aware of Cook from childhood, though in hindsight, I might not have been familiar with him if my mum weren't from Australia.
I didn't realise you had a holiday for Columbus. That is kind of weird given he never went to the land that became the USA. A bit like having a Vasco da Gama day, he didn't go their either. In fact if you had a holiday for everyone who never went there you wouldn't ever have to work.
And so many places in the United States are named after him as well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus
The United States would not exist in its current form if Columbus did not advocate for those voyages when no one wanted to fund him. Hell, I wouldn't exist if he didn't do it the way that he did. I'm the product and Spanish and indigenous mixing after all.
It was a way for Italians at that time to stop anti Italian racism
@@gamermapperthe Holiday yes Naming the Country of Colombia and the DC District After him was Not (of course) because of italian Americans that didn’t even exist. It was legit because he changed history Forever. Might be luck. Might be that he changed it in a Bad way. But he indeed changed it. It’s Like if in italian school they didn’t teach about Attila because he was “the scourge of God” or not teaching Jewish Kids the holocaust. Is something is important doesn’t matter if it’s positive or negative they must be teached. If we only teach history without the tragic Parts we have a very Short and falsified View of history or am I crazy? Not Tesching Columbus is like Not teaching ww2 to japanese because it was bad. It’s erasing history.
We love Christopher Columbus here in Ohio, we named are state capital city after him! Which is also the home of the THEE Ohio State University Buckeyes.
I meant to mention that but forgot. That and all the other places named after Columbus.
History wakes me up in the morning, I love it just as you do. Carry on my good man!
There are a lot of awkward unacknowledged disagreements in this video.
Great conversation nonetheless.
Dang, I am surprised at this. I thought we agreed too much.
For example, I felt the disagreement @42:18 ish never really got resolved, which is fine. Another example might be the disagreement somewhere about the number of family members/brothers of Columbus.
It would have been interesting to hear a bit of discussion of the sources on these topics.
@Mr. Beat, Definitely a lot of agreement throughout the video, and I am thankful for people like you taking the time to discuss topics. I'm looking forward to another discussion sometime.
As a high school student, we didn’t really learn about Columbus as a person or much about him at all. He was just clumped in with the rest of the explorers of the renaissance era. Any extensive knowledge I’ve learned about Columbus has been from RUclips’s videos such as this one and knowing better’s. We are taught a lot more about Native Americans than any of the renaissance explorers.
Sad
As a Lakota Sioux I feel I can offer some perspective that many of the people in my life have on Columbus. Yes we know that he didn't directly do anything to us directly of course. The reason why he is especially vilified is because of the precedence he set for our entire hemisphere and why our population was nearly wiped out completely. Yes indeed we place all the negative feelings from the deeds of so many on one man, we do this to Hitler or Stalin as well. They might have never went into Poland themselves amd murdered Civilians but we attribute it to them anyway even though on the ground in the time it was perpetrated by other men. And the same with Colonial times, indeed Columbus wasn't there to directly cause the suffering of north and south americans but it definitely was ushered in with his journey.
I appreciate your perspective on this, and that is a point we should have addressed.
Also I am from Denver where our Italian community voted to make this a Holiday in the first place. I've been told that they did so not to revere him for his role in discovering America necessarily but more-so because Italian Americans didn't have a central historical guy they could point to since Italy wasn't really a country until relatively recently in history. (This is all word of mouth stuff from an Italian man from here in Denver. Never confirmed his affirmations so if I am incorrect sorry.
But in Conclusion it's still a "Fuck Columbus" from where I stand even as an informed guy.
@@thegreatgreenmenace4050 I can totally sympathize with this opinion. He is definitely a symbol of colonialism and doesn't deserve to have a day.
As I said in the video I'm 100% on board with ditching Columbus Day. I think we all agreed on that.
@Stefan Milo @Mr. Beat. Sorry I didn't mean to come across as if I were against any of the opinions in the video. I just wanted to give the Lakota perspective while it was being discussed while my thoughts were fresh. Thank you guys for the discussion.
That feeling when all you wanted was to sail in the opposite direction to add spices to your food in a faster time frame and you end up becoming synonymous as the kickstarter for colonial empires and slavery.
They could easily just take away Columbus day and the people who don't like him will be happy and the people who might like him might not mind anyway.
@Ksch Koff possibly. But like most things. If they were to take out Columbus day, eventually in maybe 20+ years it would already faded enough. The key thing is the education that is provided in the schools to be much more up to date and America is riddled with too many out dated books. I remember a news report some time after 9-11 that stated how there were still some public schools providing text books with pre Berlin Wall historical education and others that didn't have enough money for simple telescopes.
The people who want Columbus Day off the calendar want to replace it with Indigenous peoples day because they believe he was responsible for their near extinction so they want to combat this evil
Ksch Koff because hes the reason you’re even here
The Italian-Americans, who fought to have this day created, would mind a lot I reckon
Has there been a collab video before? This is interesting
This was the first one. We're hoping to do more!
I work with a tribal agency and we get holidays off; Columbus Day, Native American Day, and Indigenous Day. We also have Treaty Days off.
I was trying to find Knowing Better's video on Columbus but I can't find it. This video and critic's responses are the only things that are left to be found.
I think part of the issue here in the U.S., at least in my experience, is the bait-and-switch aspect of the story. In elementary school up until about age 12, you learn that "Christopher Columbus discovered America", that phrase over and over again. Then in your teens, you start to realize, "How could he have discovered America if there were already people here?" The way Columbus is taught has a problematic aspect of Native-erasure that he gets blamed for. I remember in middle school, at about age 13, it became popular for people to say "Christopher Columbus didn't actually discover America. The Native Americans did." When you find out he wasn't this great infallible hero, that means he must be evil. If you were lied to about who discovered America, what other things about Christopher Columbus were lies? I think if we taught that he "brought North America to the attention of colonial Europe" or he "encountered numerous American civilizations" instead of he "discovered America", I think we wouldn't feel such a strong animosity toward Columbus.
I agree he my have not discovered American but he opened both North and South America to the rest of the world which is how the united states was made.
I urge you to get the historical facts and data
What was he doing so far south anyways
I'm a fan of the Erik the Red theory
They need Sam o'nella
I don't think they could handle sam o'nella
I wanna call it discovery day because some crazy Spaniards discovered some crazy Indians and some crazy Indians discovered some crazy Europeans. Then shit got real. Honestly though I would be fine with sharing the day and calling it Columbus/indigenous day! 😏
Big ups for knowing better, my man.
The indigenous people had federations, though. And we copied their model of government to make the United States. We also learned how to grow corn from them. We once tried to learn from the native peoples. There were also a lot of large civilizations that sprung up without farm animals. The Incas for example. We assume farm animals are needed to make large civilizations.
Racism was once about tribalism. It didn’t mean anything about skin color before. It became expanded to surface differences during the time when skulls and physical differences were being studied to show which species were less evolved than others. Surface differences were posited to show which species were less evolved. We do something similar to Neanderthals. They’ve discovered that living humans share 2% - 3% dna with Neanderthals. This means Neanderthals didn’t die out. Who knows if we share parts of our culture with them?
How did we think they died out? We think that because physical features looked different from what we see today. And that’s about it.
You do realise that the American system was based off the Roman system more than most other forms of government.
Also the no animal aspect is important not becuase they couldn't make large civilizations. It was important because it meant those civs could never expand very far. The aztecs were a realitively small state when the spanish rocked up because the couldn't project power.
Adam Carroll
ruclips.net/video/79RApCgwZFw/видео.html
We got representative democracy from Rome. We didn’t get the federation model. Before the World Wars necessitated the European Union to settle differences, Europe was completely incapable of sharing power between states. They knew nothing but conflict between them and their neighbors until that conflict became too costly to bear.
The federation model between states came from indigenous Americans.
Have you seen the vast and large holdings of the Incas? I have. In person. I guarantee you the wheel is useless in the Andean Mountains, anyhow. Yet they still controlled more mountain and valley than modern day Peru or Columbia combined, which also means they controlled more land in much more difficult terrain than most European countries today or in the past.
Adam Carroll the United States more closely resembles the Iroquois before it resembles the Romans, despite the architecture in Washington, DC.
Third!
Why so much talk about Columbus day, and not about Thanksgiving?
"Los Hermanos Pinzones era unos marineros que se fueron con Colón, que era otro... marinero."
ruclips.net/video/RJ9matNK6SI/видео.html
Columbus completely miscalculated. He thought he could make it and was fortunate to have landed in the “West Indies” because he and his crew were already running out of supplies. And still had to cross the Pacific Ocean, which is bigger than the Atlantic.
That none of you understand that go back to 1790 and Washington not only worked December 25th but also October 12th. Columbus Day was celebrated here and there but it was celebrated in large measure because Columbus was Italian. The Ku Klux Klan would go after black people. And that included Irish and Italians. We were going through my grandmothers papers after she died and came upon here passport from 1912 and on it under Race it said Black. She was born in Italy in the Piedmont region in Northern Italy but to American officials she was black. The Irish had Saint Patrick and the Italians had Columbus. There was increased Columbus activity after the Klan lynched a large group of Italians. And if you look at arguments about the large groups of immigrants that were coming in from 1850 on, one of the key argue was these immigrants are not Protestant and were not white. They were Irish, Italian, Polish …. What happened? They were assigned hero’s to try to find things the current citizens could understand and slowly the government declared them “white”. Now is it any wonder that just as the Irish would fight if we said Saint Patrick’s Day will be known as Indigenous Saints Day that you have Italian Communities that have festivities around Columbus Day and they have been fighting back. The proper thing to do is have a … I was going to say Indigenous Peoples Day or Native American Day but maybe it should be where you call it the Thames of the peoples who lived in your state.And perhaps Columbus Day could become Italian Pride Day. One thing that is interesting about the early explorers is how many were Italian. Columbus ( maybe), Verrazano, Vespucci, and John Cabot( Giovanni Caboto).
Dumb-smart guy has a great video on Columbus
Columbus is a hero
I really like some of Knowing Better's videos but I found his Columbus video first and the way he argued around why Columbus wasn't that bad really rubbed me the wrong way. I don't remember any specific things off the top of my head right now, but what he says in this video
that it doesn't make sense for plains indians to be saying "F#@! Columbus" because "what did he do to you" I mean he didn't directly do anything to my people in Colombia either, but am I not allowed to feel anger towards him and what he did to the Taíno people? Even if I weren't part Native, why not give him an "F#@! you"? He did terrible things-as Knowing better said. And the decimation of Hispaniola's Native population was one of the largest mass dyings in history at the time-so is it really not fair to compare him to Hitler? That was almost 500 years later, the technology was very different, but the magnitude wasn't that far off: tens of thousands versus millions.
So yeah like he didn't show up and kill literally everyone-he wasn't even here that long, okay. point taken. but he killed so many people when was here he did so many awful terrible things when he was here. fuck him. yay like don't get me wrong im all for getting the facts straight, but also like can we do that without being neutral about him? Like idk one thing i remember about the video was that it felt like Knowing Better was defending him a bit too strongly lol like rather than the video being "columbus didn't do everything you think he did" the video felt more like "columbus really wasn't that bad of a guy you guys"
anyway sorry ill probably keep adding to this these are my thoughts about what Knowing Better said around 7:30
Maybe you should aim this anger towards Israel then?
His point was mostly to say that he wasnt satan.
oh trust me i have plenty of anger left over for israel
All his statues will fall
Ave Titus 70 AD 😘😘
Shout out to knowing better!
Why not have a White people Day? If we are going to have other race days. The Blacks get a whole month.
The short answer is: There's no such thing as race. Black (in this context) is an ethnicity. White is a class. We don't celebrate classes.
Earth is flat is why he found more land
Luc Skywalker I agree if the world was round he would have slid down the side!
@@cooladam9930 not according to their theory
Second
American History 538ad - 1798ad 1,260 years
1492
Daniel 7:25 , Revelation 11,12
1492 Christopher Columbus The Man of Lawlessness
2 Thess. 2:3
Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction
The beast of the Earth
Revelation 13 :11-18
1492* between the dark ages 538 ad-1798ad 1,260 years
Christopher Columbus is the Beast of the Earth the horned animal like a lamb with two horns meaning two countries , who spoke as Satan means the name -
Christopher means , "like Christ or bearing Christ or Anointed" (Yahusha is the lamb Columbus is false lamb)
The two horns represents the two countries in Europe Italy aka Lombards (Columbus) and Spain aka Visigoths (Cortes,Cabrillo) spoke as Satan meaning they are Papacy Roman Catholic.
I Agree With Most Of The Video But You Can’t Just Try And Justify Columbus Cutting Peoples Hands Off , IDC Who He Had To Pay Gold Back
While he was cutting off people's hands the indigenous people were cutting out people's hearts. So at that time they were all acting like real jerks.
Chris was bad but not as bad as Cortez And Pizarro