I left a lot of interesting stuff out, so I encourage you to please explore more on your own. One of the things I left out was that there's a spot in Daviess County, Missouri, that some LDS used to believe is where Adam and Eve lived after being expelled from the Garden of Eden. Fun times. Edit: I need to apologize. First, if you are a practicing Mormon, I truly didn't mean to offend you. I should have been more sensitive trying to explain the history. Second, I was guilty of conjecture in this video and didn't reveal that. I was only speculating that Isaac Morley may have have influenced Joseph Smith to become a polygamist. I will try to not be so careless with this stuff in the future. Go to ground.news/mrbeat to become a smarter news consumer and stay fully informed. Subscribe through my link for 50% off unlimited access this month - the best deal of the year!
In the 1880s, many Jews living in the Russian Empire knew about the Mormons in Utah and saw it as an example of religious freedom in the US. One of the founders of Am Olam, a group which created Jewish agricultural communities in the US, specifically noted the Mormons and their communities in Utah as an inspiration to create the Jewish agricultural communities in the US.
@@GeneaVlogger I lived in Utah. Close to my home was Jerusalem, UT. It was a former Jewish agricultural settlement that is now a ghost town. There is a burial site still there.
For more context RE had "Pale of Settlement" where Jews were segregated to regions far from capital, mostly in Ukraine, Belarus and Poland. One of unfortunate results of that was in 1940s where USSR had most Jewish people located on Axis path.
@@KasumiRINA You're correct but I just want to add on: the Jews in the Pale of Settlement weren't moved there, they had been living there for a long time in what was previously the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that got devoured by Russia, Prussia, and Austria. However they were prevented from moving elsewhere in the Russian Empire for the majority of their time as part of it. Just felt the need to add this as your last sentence makes it seem like the USSR/Russian Empire relocated them there, when they really just kept them there.
LOL. The population density was probably 1 person per 500 miles. And 90% of Americans where probably white AND some form of Christian. Its easier to be tolerant when you don't have to rub elbows so much, and tolerance is more or less theoretical.
I think the only missing piece is how Mormonism fit into the broader religious picture at the time. Mormons weren’t the only splinter group forming at the time, this is also the era that gave birth to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists, and Shakers. It was a time of a major shake-up in Protestantism as it was practiced in the US.
This is still argued about, but Mormon Jesus was in either South America, or possibly central America. Moroni, the last contributor to the "Golden Plates" travelled as far as he did to avoid being murdered.
Historian here. I think this video is so controversial because it breaks a common social convention, i.e., to suspend disbelief about the credibility of religious origins in an academic context, even if discounting those origins is the logical result of an empirical analysis. Like, if you don't believe that Jesus is the son and appointed messiah of the Abrahamic god, you might reasonably conclude that he was a con-man (if he existed at all). If you don't believe Mohammed actually received visions from the Abrahamic god, then you might, again, conclude he was the most perfidious of swindlers. But we never say those things in academia. I often throw in qualifiers like "according to Christian/Islamic tradition" and students might infer from other comments that I hold to more materialistic or mythical interpretations of events, but I don't just say, "Hey, these religions are false and therefore Jesus and/or Mohammed were con-men." Maybe it seems like a betrayal of honesty, but I think in a pluralistic academic society we have agreed to set aside accusing major prophets of being scammers. I mean, I hear that Yahweh himself has a pre-Canaanite history with a people called the Shasu. He was an idol with the tetragrammaton carved into it. Then the Yahwist cult came to Canaan and merged with the pre-existing god El (Elohim), replaced Baal, and lost the idol. If I conclude from this that the god of Abraham, Yahweh, the center of religious thinking for all Western Civilization, is fake, should I teach that most Abrahamic prophets in history were con-men? We just don't do that for world religions. I think many of the Latter Day Saints in the comments are chagrined at your video because it's a reminder that they aren't seen as a real religion or Christian sect by many Americans. LDS members are used to getting treated like a cult, an other, by exclusionary Evangelical types, but they weren't expecting it from you, Mr. Beat. They didn't expect you to say their religion was true, but they probably assumed you would give it the standard courtesy accorded to the prophets of other religions. I'm not saying I have the answer to how to treat these cases. I, too, find much of Smith's biography appalling and sincerely worry about people seeing him as a role model. But calling him a con-man opens up a huge can of worms. If we make such judgements based upon our materialistic understanding of the world or even just call out those whose prophecies went unfulfilled as false prophets, we will be faced with some uncomfortable choices. Was Nat Turner a false prophet? How about Wovoka, the founder of the Ghost Dance Movement? Was he a con-man? I think we're in pretty dangerous territory here.
We're faced with an issue in Academia. Do we go forth and state interpretations of information we have, or do we refuse to claim anything we aren't concrete about? I respect thoroughly the passion researchers have towards refraining from assumptions, but I believe this refrain harms more than it prevents harm. There is no place for "if" or "maybe", any human with brain cells understand the uncertainty of the world or chooses what uncertainty they will refuse. There never will be a certainty in the future to wait for before making claims when it comes to religions.
Well the main difference is probably his demonstrated criminal history related to “con-man” activities. You have to draw the line on calling a spade and spade at some point. Also if historians want to be taken seriously they should probably be able to say obvious myths in all religions have no evidence and are not historically supported. Why are we giving any leeway to obvious myths for any religion? Sadly for Mormons, their religion is just one of the easiest to demonstrably prove as false. We just know too much.
During my final years of Mormonism, there was a missionary in our ward in Texas named Elder Price. I asked him if he’d ever introduced himself at doors using that spiel and he confirmed he had.
"Mercer" "Mercantile" "Mercenary" "Mercado" -merc-,root. -merc- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning "trade". No silver, no tea. No silver, silk. No copper, no colones. No Carthaginian copper mine, no Roman coin. Etc., etc., etc. These people AREN'T your PEOPLE. Sugar, cotton, silk, coffee, chocolate, corn, avocados, citrus fruit, etc. were never theirs and they have devised countless ways to fool people into believing that they were or economically marginalizing them until they BECAME theirs. Don't get involved, in any way, in their problems.
Christianity as a whole is an aberration created by the murderous raging of a people forced, in the end, to wear the symbol of the many people they literally crucified who, in the end, came to conquer them-all of them. Central European, Ethnic northern European, North African, Eastern coastal African, Middles Eastern, Asiatic, SICILIAN, etc. Italians and "Romans" alike never liked Sicilians, because they had familial trade ties with middle eastern Arabic trade and military parties. I think maybe you should do more research.
Non-Mormon Utahn here as well, I’m seriously glad for this video, we didn't learn much of the stuff that presents the church as less than perfect. So thanks for educating the ignorant in and outside of Utah Mr. Beat!
@@squidnt4103 I am a Mormon and a Utahn. I wish we learned more of the warts-and-all history of Mormonism. I read quite a lot of academic history of the church, and I find it fascinating. And it's better to know this stuff than to be surprised by critics of the church who know gotcha criticisms you haven't heard of before.
@@KingK2205 the influence certainly is felt in our politics, education, and general city vibe. But yeah it’s definitely changing to be less religious, as is pretty much this whole country. I like living here regardless, I truly consider it a great state to live. And I never feel underrepresented as a minority since it’s quite diverse
I met two mormom missionaries from utah in Mikkeli Finland. I chatted with them for a moment and got a free book of mormon from them. They were called Ethan and David. Good and clean people i have nothing against them coming here
Thank you so much for talking with the missionaries, I’m planning on going on a mission soon and it genuinely makes their day whenever you take the time to talk to them
@iammrbeat You could've done something good here and fairly and empathetically portrayed a marginalized minority group to your massive audience. Instead you decided to pile on the hate bandwagon and amplify the unrestrained abuse that Mormons experience online. You may have gained some viewers by punching down in this manner, but it has come at the cost of your integrity.
@@kp6553 he uses references from various media that mock Mormonism, and I see how that might offend you. But are you alleging there are historical inaccuracies in this video?
@mattkidroske yes, the main one being his claim that "no one saw the plates." In reality, there were about twenty people who claimed they physically saw or held the plates. Several of them claimed they were able to flip through the pages and look at the engraved characters. Mr. Beat could've said that he doesn't believe them, or he could've speculated that Joseph forged the plates somehow, but nonetheless he shouldn't have said that no one saw the plates as that is plainly contradicted by the historical record.
SLC was so much fun. The city has changed so much over the last decade. I think we made a difference at the National Council on Public History. I've had at least 10 emails from folks who went to our panel and wanted to discuss more. Plus, it's just plain fun hanging out
I have honestly had some of the craziest nights out in Salt Lake City 😂 I'm shocked that this was a place I could have a "Dude, where's my car?" experience 😂
Hey Mr Beat! So I made a decision today: I’m going to run for my local school board. I was inspired both by your educational value and by some recent immoral behavior by some of the school staff. However, I wish to learn more about the school board and how it works in detail. I really want to make a positive change in my community, and I feel like your experience could really help me out! Thanks for all you do!
@@timmiestabrnak we are actually doing mostly okay other than the deluge of anti-mormon abuse and conspiracy theories we deal with just by existing on the internet
It's pretty cool that you went to a bunch of the historical sites. A lot of people just make videos from their desks, but seeing the physical context makes a big difference.
It’d be cool to see it all in person. The more I see of Salt Lake City lately, the more I want to see it, it looks like a beautiful city. Like a smaller Denver, but tucked more in the mountains. I give props to Mr. Beat for filming at the locations. It must take a good amount of prep and scripting to make his videos flow smoothly. Plus I’m sure he gets a good vacation with his family out of it aswell, if they’re all able to come along
The Mormon association with beehives isn’t just because of industrialness, it’s also a reference to the Deseret in the Book of Mormon. In the Book of Mormon, there is an account of a group of early settlers to the Americas called the Jaredites who used a special beehive called a Deseret to keep bees. (I’ve read the Book of Mormon myself, although I’m not a Mormon)
@deutschermichel5807 that's thanks to a Hebrewism. The ancients didn't have sympols for periods or apostrophes, they had phrases to show the next statement
@@Robert-rw5lm But why is the Bible written in so much better style than the Book of Mormon? Did the Jews who migrated before the invention of the Cogge just forget all other Hebrew phrases to begin a sentence?
@@deutschermichel5807 Well the Bible was either not written in Hebrew (New Testament) or translated quite a bit to get to where we are now (Majority of Old Testament). The BoM was only translated (supposedly) from RE to English
@@Isaac-Karbassioon Hey, don't blame me, blame the missionaries that literally looked me in the eye and told me that. Maybe they were being weird, but I mean, if their job is to convert people, they do an awful job of it.
8:00 that’s not quite right. He’s supposedly found them when he was 14, but an angel told him that he couldn’t take it. He supposedly went back and looked at them four more times before he finally dug them up for good.
I can't stand this new meaning of the word underrated. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Who has rated subtitles in order for them to be 'under' so?
@@iammrbeat Not the person you asked the question to, Mr Beat, but I feel like I'm in the minority that watches a lot of RUclips on my TV. There are dozens of us, dozens! 😅
Hey Mr. Beat! I am a big fan of your channel and was really excited that you posted about the LDS church. I find the history and the beginnings of Mormonism to be extremely fascinating. I have read and done much research on Joseph Smith. I noticed that you said that Joseph's friend Isaac Morley was a polygamist before Joseph was. What is your source for that? I have read all the books that you had posted in the description and I do not recall any of them saying that about Isaac Morley. To my knowledge Isaac Morley's first plural wife was Leanora Snow Leavitt in 1843. If you have credible sources feel free to correct me. Another note was that you stated that Joseph Smith looked for the gold plates for quite some time. However, Joseph states that in 1823 angel Moroni came to him during the night. Later on (I believe the next day) Joseph was led by the angel to where the plates were buried. The angel told him that he could not take the plates but had to visit the spot every year on that exact day. This continued on for four years and it was in 1827 that Joseph claims to finally retrieve the plates. I still found your video interesting, if you have sources that is saying what I am saying is wrong please feel free to correct me.
@Iwishiwasanoscarmeyerweiner Right, because studying how one guy "made something up" is a waste of time. By that logic, we should stop studying all religions. After all, they all could be "made up," right? Nevermind that entire civilizations were built upon religions influencing billions of lives and culture. Funny how these "made up" things shape history but hey keep sticking to your deep analysis.
I was careless with this portion of the video. It was pure conjecture that Smith was influenced by Morley to become a polygamist and I should have made that clear. I am sorry about this mistake, and have noted it in the pinned comment and on the "Corrections" card of the video. The Joseph Smith Papers was the source, but I went back and checked and indeed, my dates that I wrote down may have been off. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
33:55 I feel i should point out that the pentecostal movement also started in the usa, is larger, faster growing and more recent then mormonism. Though perhaps it wasn't mentioned as it would be considered a Christian denomination (though some would also consider mormonism to be a Christian denomination too).
Hey, Mr. Beat, Active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and viewer of Mr. Beat here. I appreciate your trademark enthusiasm for a somewhat esoteric episode of American history. A few notes on the history you reference in your video: "Treasure seeking", or treasure hunting, was practiced by Joseph and his family. This sounds super weird to our modern sensibilities, but this wasn't see as an unusual or inappropriate practice by many in their community. Treasure hunting, even with the use of objects like seer stones, was a sort of folksy pastime with roots in Christian tradition. An interesting video on the subject: ruclips.net/video/NpFer0PsqjM/видео.html . Also, while Joseph did market his services as a treasure seeker with the ability to use a seer stone, he and his family earned most of their living from farming and working as hired hands. He is the one who ended the business arrangement made with Josiah Stowell, who believed him. The quote you show at 12:15 is not actually part of The Book of Mormon that Joseph claimed to translate. It's part of another book of scripture called Doctrine & Covenants (specifically Section 3, verses 12-13) which contains revelations and teachings of Smith and other prophets, separate from The Book of Mormon. Something you left out of your video is the fact that Martin Harris repeatedly requested permission to show their 116 page manuscript to his wife, Lucy. Joseph asked God for permission and was told "no" twice. Joseph asked again and was told "take it if you want", more or less. The South Park episode about this implies that Lucy purposely hid the manuscript to test Joseph's ability as a translator. In reality, nobody ever saw those 116 pages again and Joseph claims that he lost the ability to translate The Book of Mormon for a time as punishment. There were actually more people that physically witnessed the golden plates than "The Three Witnesses" of Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer. The Three Witnesses actually claimed that they were visited by an angel who showed them the plates. Eight other men, known as "The Eight Witnesses" handled the plates while several other people saw or held the gold plates at different times. A power struggle ensued after Joseph Smith and his brother, Hyrum, were killed in 1844. Joseph had left no clear indications for a successor. In the aftermath, the two frontrunners were Sydney Rigdon and Brigham Young. Both addressed a large crowd of church members to make their pitch for president of the church. Brigham claimed that Joseph had passed the "keys", or divine authority, to administer and lead the church to himself and his other apostles, not to Sydney. Most followed Brigham and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles west a little later. Brigham became president of the church on December 27, 1847 because he was the senior apostle. This precedent has been followed since, with the senior member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles becoming President of the church upon the death of the previous president. There are a few things you mention or allude to in the video that I won't engage with for brevity's sake. I know that my religion's history is messy and complicated, yet I find compelling reasons to believe. I can't deny the huge positive impact that my membership in the church has had upon my life and the lives of my family. I truly believe that Jesus is my Savior and Redeemer, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that The Book of Mormon is divine scripture, and that the true gospel of Jesus Christ is restored to the earth today. I think that there is compelling evidence to show that Joseph Smith was not a conman or fraud, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Anyway, always fun to see my religion get some attention from RUclipsrs I watch!
@@thereadingnook566 Not true. The Three Witnesses, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer never denied their testimony of seeing and holding the plates. There are many instances when all three defended what they claimed to see. While some have derided Martin Harris for apparently making a comment that he saw the plates with his "spiritual eyes", it is doubtful that he actually said that. Here is a video you can see on the subject: ruclips.net/video/mUv-NxTv3Tc/видео.html What I find interesting is that each of The Three Witnesses leaves the church over issues with Joseph at some point or another, which Mr. Beat mentions in his video. However, none of them take the opportunity to recant their witness or call the The Book of Mormon a fraud. So if Joseph Smith made the whole thing up, were these three men in on it or not? If they were, why didn't they denounce the lie once they could no longer profit from it? If they were somehow tricked by Smith, why wouldn't he do whatever he needed to appease them to maintain their support? I don't think there's much room for alternative interpretations of the testimony of The Three Witnesses.
@@silverwolf149 I’m a practicing member as well. Thank you for commenting this. I appreciate other saints sticking up for ourselves in kind, respectful ways. Thank you for being a good example and doing the work to write all of this.
I'm surprised you got through this entire video without mentioning Freemasonry even once. It had a HUGE part to play in Nauvoo. Joseph Smith's last words were the start of a Freemason call for help
This summary is not the most accurate. It takes liberally from some interpretations, generally the more skeptical versions which sometimes includes things that probably arent or just arent accurate even if you don't believe in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints (I mean that shouldn't be surprising considering south park is used numerous times to introduce or provide context for events which isnt exactly an unbiased source, they add to the story a lot for the sake of entertainment and satire). The church has published many first and second hand accounts of the foundings of the church including much of Joseph smiths personal journals, letters, and such as well as the first and second hand accounts of many other individuals involved. If this is your first introduction take it with a grain of salt, some details are either lost or omitted as its translated to the screen. Joseph smiths life and the details thereof are highly controversial, with the church on the one hand, and on the other many folks who wanted to paint it in the worst light possible. For example the oft repeated tale of Smith being a treasure hunter comes from only 2 accounts 1) Joseph was hired by Mr.Stoal who was convinced there was spanish silver, though Joseph disagreed and repeatedly encouraged him to stop searching for it. and 2) The claim his father allegedly took his children on frequent treasure hunts. However a few caveats should be noted 1) This was a common practice in the area at the time, the palmyra herald publishing these words: digging for money hid in the earth is a very common thing and in this state it is even considered as honorable and profitable employment", "One gentleman...digging...ten to twelve years, found a sufficient quantity of money to build him a commodious house., "another...dug up...fifty thousand dollars!". In this context it ought to be no more surprising than the occasional panning for gold that people engaged in after the gold rush. and 2) While the claims are common claiming Joseph smith sr engaged in frequent treasure hunts there is actually very little evidence for this. And second hand accounts suggest the claims were overblown and furthermore there is no evidence at all that Joseph smith sr. claimed he could miraculously find treasure, that is likely a merging of the story between father and son who shared the same name. If you ever want to take a look into some of these stories to try and find citations for them try www.fairlatterdaysaints.org. It is a sympathetic site to the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, but they do unflinchingly provide citations and first and second hand quotes on these subjects that can be followed up on if you so desire. (If you want even more first hand accounts go to the joseph smith papers where you can find scans of the origonal first hand documents relating to these events such as Joseph smiths personal journals (unedited and presented in their raw format).
@@retrogamerdave362 Even Mr.Beat admits in a comment after he left out or missed some things and engaged in some conjecture. You have every right to draw your own conclusions but its no lie to say that this is not the most accurate portrayal of events given that we have first and second hand accounts directly conflicting with some of the claims. As an example I could say Abraham lincoln was a warmonger who refused the confederates calls for peace, and who lied on his campaign trail. In a way that is all true, but it also totally neglects a mountain of context and skips over many contributing events. It would be no lie to say such a portrayal of abraham lincoln at the least failed to provide some crucial details and context. I'm not saying this video had to kneel down and bear testimony of the restoration, I am saying for a video that claims to only present the raw facts without regard for biases it fails in its mission by providing often only partial pictures of events and situations. that is why I mentioned places people could find first and second hand documents.
Mr. Beat, I'm a big fan of your channel and have learned a lot from you. Unfortunately you seem to really miss the mark on this one. It seems as though you started with the premise that Joseph Smith was a conman, then worked from there. While it's good that we can all see the same history and come to different conclusions, I noticed that you very much seem to be putting a spin on things, which while it's inevitable to some degree, I felt crossed a line. At best, you butchered some of the facts and let your opinions creep in, and at worst, you intentionally lied and framed things in certain ways to carefully craft a narrative. I sincerely hope it's not the latter. A few examples: 5:50-6:35 is a classic case of presentism. You talk about treasure hunting in the way it's typically thought of today - something strange and ludicrous, an obvious fraud or scam. You either don't know, or leave out, the fact that treasure hunting was incredibly common in the 1800's, especially among rural, uneducated populations, something that was very true of where the Smith's lived. In this same vein, the way you talk about the Smith's treasure seeking sets up two premises: 1. That Joseph Smith Sr. made a career out of treasure hunting (he didn't) and 2. that Joseph Smith Jr. was in it to intentionally con people for money. That second premise is impossible to know based off the data we have (ESPECIALLY considering your script is incredibly poorly sourced. You shouldn't be putting together a dissertation for a RUclips video, but you state many things as fact, only to have no reference TO ANY KIND OF SOURCE in the script). It's simply you imposing your view of Joseph Smith onto what you have uncovered about his life. 9:25 is a particularly blatant example of you framing an argument to fail. You say "Supposedly, and this is a very big supposedly" before you even say anything about what Joseph Smith said or claimed. I understand that you were in many ways trying to be funny, but you very obviously framed what Joseph Smith claimed to be ludicrous before you state it, thus setting it up to fail before the audience can weigh the merits of the claims. At 9:53, you say that "but nobody could actually see the gold plates." This was the point that I started to wonder if you had done any real research because this is an incredibly easy claim to prove false. 11 witnesses (split into groups of 3 and 8) signed affidavits stating that THEY HAD SEEN THE GOLDEN PLATES. Given the fact that you mention the 3 witnesses later on in the video, it's clear you know about them, which means that you either had a severe lapse of judgment while putting the video timeline together, or you intentionally claimed that no one had seen the plates to paint the idea that Joseph Smith could have had golden plates as ludicrous. Your errors become even more apparent as those who have spent significant time studying the history of Joseph Smith would know that there were as many as 14 additional witnesses who saw or touched the golden plates to some degree. 33:33 is the most egregious example of your framing and bias. You say: "Joseph Smith was basically a con artist. And anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to whitewash history." This is the most alarming and disturbing thing I've ever heard on your channel. You are better than this. Surely you can take a step back and see how incredibly dangerous that mindset is. The whole reason your channel, VTH, Mr. Terry, and others are popular is greatly in part to the ability to see things from different lenses and perspectives, without claiming to know everything. It is incredibly disappointing to me that you are using the following logical fallacies with that single statement: False dilemma: setting it up as a binary choice, either Joseph Smith was a conman or if you think differently, you must be a bad faith actor. There can't possibly be any in-between. Ad-hominin: attacking those who disagree with you rather than actually engaging with any arguments against your narrative. Poisoning the well: you are preemptively discrediting any arguments anyone has against your narrative by writing it off as white washing history. Do better Mr. Beat. If you're not going to put out a factual and academically honest video, please don't put it out at all. I'm not one of those people who will unsubscribe over something like this, but I will point out that having videos like this can severely sour a subscribers relationship with your channel. Although I believe you're generally doing the best you can, I can't help but wonder what other videos you've played fast and loose with the facts on, or chosen to promote a narrative over a good faith discussion and/or presentation. I hope I was able to get my point across. I hope that you can learn from this video to do better next time. And I hope that in the future, if you ever put out other similarly flawed videos, subscribers will be able to keep you accountable, as does not seem to be the case with this one, given the demographics on the internet.
It’s crazy to think that Truman probably had Reorg (RLDS) and LDS friends and neighbors. So quintessentially American in its history - especially due to the fact he was the one who made the most paramount decision to drop Fat man and Little boy.
President Truman announced in a speech at the Community of Christ (aka RLDS) Auditorium June 27 1945 that the USA had signed the United Nations treaty.
Wow. Rough Stone Rolling would be my recommendation from an LDS perspective on Joseph Smith. Mormon Christianity by Stephen Webb from a non-LDS perspective of Mormonism. Mr Beat said he did a lot of research but it was clearly not enough for him to make the nuances necessary of the history prior to Brigham Young. “Opportunists pursue their own desires, ignoring God’s will. But after examining thousands of his actions, it’s clear to me Joseph Smith was religiously sincere. He believed God called him as a prophet and was speaking through him.” -Don Bradley
Was Muhammed a con artist? Was Jesus? Was Sitharda Gautma? If you are comfortable calling each of them "con artists" then I'm fine with you calling Joseph Smith one too. If you're not comfortable calling them con artists; then you're showing your personal biases; or your lack of research. if many of his contemporaries claimed he was not a con artist, I dunno how you can definitively claim they were all wrong without using arguments that would also condemn Jesus or Muhammed.
@@senhan2159 lol. lmao even. Both Smith & Muhammed started a religion so they could bone as many women as they wanted (and, in Muhammed's case, children). There's no real comparison.
We have enough evidence to convict Joseph Smith of fraud. We can't say the same of the other figures. Personally I would agree with you but from a historical perspective only one of them can be proven
@@thepukas Congratulations. You're logically consistent. So long as you're as zealous in calling out Muslims, other Christians, and Buddhists for following con artists as you are about calling out members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; then you can rest easy that you're an equal opportunity troll.
@@thepukas Congratulations, you're logically consistent. I hope that you're as zealous in accusing Buddhists, Muslims, and Christians of being duped by con artists; as you are with members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I thought you were someone who stood up for minorities and respected people’s religious convictions. This video was incredibly distasteful and bigoted (no surprise, referencing godmakers and South Park), making light of other people whilst giving half-truth history. I’m not angry, I’m disappointed. I looked up to this guy as a kid. If you wouldn’t treat Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or Hindus, why is ok to treat Mormons like this?
If we had more information about the personal lives of their founders then I'm sure he would. Mormons need to get over the fact that their guy is still so fresh from a historical context that we have so much ammunition with which to make completely reasonable assumptions about character. Imagine if someone had this take about any other historical figure. "How dare you treat Alexander Hamilton this way?!? You would never say such things about Honoratus Antoninus or Dhu Shanatir!"
As someone who has studied the LDS faith pretty well, I would say a big reason someone like Mr. Beat would have negative opinions would be the many instances where the religion has infringed on minority groups themselves. BYU has funded conversion therapy, Brigham Young and many past apostles/seer prophets have said horrible things about black people, they still claim that native Americans are the descendants of Israelites, where they got their dark skin because they were cursed and bad people. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, amongst others, were known for having many wives, a few of which being underaged and coerced into marriage. And I also know all the counters to them, but they're not very good. I have plenty of Mormon friends, but I do not talk about their religion with them for good reason. I can have a positive opinion of LDS people and have a negative opinion of their religion (not faith) without pushing that negativity onto them.
@ExoticTurtle3 yes, reasonable assumptions. Almost everyone who knew him though he was an amazing, but flawed man. The rest were extremely corrupt individuals who got butt hurt when Joseph defied them.
Calm down, it just another pseduo-Christian cult with beliefs and rules made up by (corrupt) mortal men. No intellectually and morally sound person would be "standing up" for this.
I wrote essays in college about Joseph Smith being a good first example of the United States not following its own principles, a native-born land owning white male did not get a fair trial.
super true, even more interesting I think is the way that Mormons came to be seen as non-white by American society during the Brigham Young era. The book "Religion of a Different Color" covers this really well.
It happens all the time, every 6 months or so someone big on youtube wants to talk about us. But rarely do they ask us what we think about what they have to say in the process.
@moiseulpasmoi I'm assuming that you're asking in good faith. Too often people seem to look at everything that Joseph Smith did as just a weirdo who was somehow able to con a bunch of people into believing what he did. But people lost their lives, homes and families trying to follow what they believed to be true. The world was very different back then. If you were a member of the church you could legally be murdered in Missouri and that law stayed on the books for nearly a century. It was a crazy time. There were (are) some real racists in the church back then (and now). There were people taking polygamy to incredible extremes. There are some weird things about us and our history but we're also just kinda normal people who love our families and sincerely believe the church to be true. Too often I see videos and shows that take the time to say look how weird and crazy these guys are, but never take the time to just go talk to one of us to hear our side. Or they only talk to ex-members. We're not hard to find and most of us are used to answering these kinds of questions.
@@moiseulpasmoi I'm under the assumption that you're asking in good faith. People like to point out the comparatively crazy things that happened in the past as the church was getting started. Yeah, there were (are) some real racists in the church that stuck around way too long. Polygamy was taken to crazy extremes by Brigham Young and some apostles that I don't agree with. It was also legal to murder members in the state of Missouri without repercussion for over century. The only place they could live their lives freely was by walking the hundreds of miles on foot into the middle of nowhere and creating a life there. We also have some cultural things that need improvement. So yeah, we're bound to sound weird. But behind all the weirdness of the past there are a lot of normal people living normal lives who love their families and actually fervently believe. When all you do is look at sources critical to the church or even agnostic you get an incomplete picture of why we exist and it becomes skewed. I dunno, if you were part of a less represented group, maybe you'd get tired of people getting things incorrectly or applying stereotypes to you.
@@jamesesplin8712 Sorry, but having been and still technically am a mormon all my life, I believe it is the other way around. The things the mormons teach is completely biased and only tells a partial story. It sugar coats the entire thing. Sure there are people who fervently believe, but its all based on lies. There is not only historians that can tell you that, but true scientific evidence that wasn't around 20 years ago even. The BoM mentions the americas having horses and chariots. Horses didn't even come to the americas until the spanish brought them. DNA evidence proves the ancient americans decended from asians and not hebrews. Not only that, but there were already people in north america long before the BoM says they were. I used to be a fervent believer too. Of course you don't want to think your whole life has been a lie. Joseph Smith stole every thing from the masons. All of the rituals in the temple are in fact an exact copy of masonic rituals. The symbols on the temple are masonic as well. The clothes in the temple down to the way they shake hands.
As a believing member of the LDS faith (who has read a whole lot about Mormon history, particularly Joseph Smith) I'm going to push pretty hard against this idea that the history forces people to believe Joseph Smith was a con artist A while back Sunstone (a Mormon intelectual think tank) had a symposium with 4 major well respected and highly accomplished Mormon history historians. They all had studied the life of Joseph Smith extensively and all had very different views on him The first one (I forget his name right now) agreed with your position: Joseph Smith was a no good lying con artist The second (Dan Vogel) said he thought Joseph Smith was a "pious fraud". He believed that Joseph Smith sincerely believed God had called him to teach people greater importanr truths, and he sincerly wanted to help people in their lives. However, he also lied in order to get people to move to the understanding he thought was the true understanding of God (he says Joseph had a very "ends justify the means" viewpoint) The third historian (Anne Taves) didn't believe Joseph was a prophet, but she did believe he was sincere about his claims. She explained how he could do this by comparing his view of the gold plates to the Catholic view of transubstantiation The fourth historian (Don Bradley) believed that Joseph was a true prophet of God. What makes Don even more interesting is that he was a former ex-mormon who previously believed the claims of the first two historians. His study of Mormon history initially made him believe Joseph was a false prophet. However, as he continued to study Mormon history he changed his mind again and decided that he believed Joseph was a true prophet My point here is that this idea that "there's no way that you can look at the historical information, honestly assess it, and not believe Joseph Smith was a lying con-man" is just not true at all. There are plenty of historians (and just normal people who have read a lot about his life) who have studied Joseph's life extensively who don't come to that conclusion at all. In fact, the biography that's widely regarded to be the best Joseph Smith biography ever written (Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling) was written by a historian who to this day very strongly believes Joseph Smith was a true prophet (the Sunstone symposium recording is linked below, for anyone who happens to be interested in listening to it) sunstone.org/four-views-of-joseph-smith-historians-debate-the-prophet-puzzle/
I'm familiar with Vogel but not the others. Vogel's analysis is reasonable. However, if you believe Joseph Smith was a "true prophet," you have automatically lost all credibility in my eyes. I'm a history channel, not a theocracy channel. I listen to historians who do not profit from spreading certain information. Incentives matter. If you are a believing member, then obviously you are going to get offended when I call your church leader a con artist. I don't expect you to change your mind, but at least be aware that your bias clouds your historical analysis. You cherry pick evidence that fits what you already believe. I consider ALL available evidence.
@iammrbeat I'm not offended. I'm just pushing back on the notion that Joseph Smith was objectively a con artist. When you claim that the only legitimate interpretation is the one you agree with (and everyone who disagrees with you is objectively wrong) you should expect pushback from people who don't agree with you (and again, just because someone provides pushback doesn't mean they're angry or offended And no one I listed is a Mormon theologian or church leader. They're all widely respected historians (including the believers) I get that you can't definatively prove religious claims through history. However that's true of any religion. You can't definatively prove the claims that Jesus rose from the dead or Muhammad saw Gabriel With that being said, while you can't definatively prove religious claims through history, you also often can't definatively prove them false. And it's really not a big deal if you don't think I'm creditable. I'm just someone who reads Mormon history as a hobby. However, it's going to be a whole lot harder to outright the historical work of highly respected and highly accomplished believing mormon historians such as Don Bradley, Cheryl Bruno, Leonard Arrington, Gerrit Dirkmatt, Juanita Brooks, Patrick Mason, and Richard Bushman (just to name a few). Their work in mornon history is highly scholarly and respected (not just vy believing mormons, BTW). Their work did not get to be as respected as it is because they cherry picked information (they didn't BTW) Also, you of all people should be aware that historians (who don't cherry pick info) often come to wildly different interpretations based on the same information (which is why I linked the symposium in the link). Again, i want to emphasize I'm not angry or offended. However, when someone claims the only legitimate perspective out their is the perspective they've come to (and the persspective i have is undeniably and objectively wrong) I'm going to push back (and just because someone provides pushback doesn't mean they're angry or offended)
@@iammrbeatAnd, with all due respect, it doesn't sound like your considering all evidence (or at least the evidence from a variety of perspective). It sounds like you're only interested in reading about Mormonism from critucal sources, and dismissing sources sympathetic to the believing side as "uncreditable" by virtue of them being sympathetic sources in the first place And if you say that all historical sources from believing Mormon historians is all just trash I'd have to push incredibly hard against that. Again, for example, Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling is widely considered to be the best biography on Joseph Smith ever written in the Mormon history community (including by people who don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet). The biography was written by Richard Bushman, who (to this day) still believes he was a prophet (and I can promise you, he knows way more about the life of Joseph Smith than either of us do)
@@danielstark8356 I'd point out that Rough stone rolling is among the only books from believing historians that does accurately portray church history. It is also not particularly favorable towards the church in all honesty, but does attempt to give believing members a path (albeit a rather tenuous path) to try and remain faithful in spite of all of hard truths that they are likely hearing about for the first time. Should also point out that Rough stone rolling heavily leverages the research of Fawn Brodie's book "No man knows my history", written about 40-50 yrs earlier, when the church was much less tolerant of scholarly historical research into it's own history. Unlike Bushman, Brodie didn't sugar coat anything. She told the history as her research dictated it. The church history was heavily correlated at the time and her research angered the leadership (even though it was all true, as later proven by Bushman's work), and Brodie would be ex-communicated for her work, as an apostate. The only reason Bushman was able to publish his work 50 years later was because the world was entering the age of the internet, and the church realized that it's prior strategies of hiding information would no longer work. We then entered the modern era of spinning the information using apologetics. Bushman is really just a church apologist.
@brianrosenlof388 I love Rough Stone Rolling because it tackles all the aspects of church history. It's the believers best f ri end in navigating the life of Joseph Smith because it is completely willing to tackle difficult information I also think the fact that Bushman so heavily used Brodie as his source proves my point: Bushman and Brodie largely agree on all the hard facts. However, they interpret them very differently (again, proving that this notion that the facts force you into believing Mormonism is a bunch of BS is false) When critics say that RSR is "sugarcoated" what they really mean is "it's not told from the non believing perslective that I agree with (which is the only correct objective perspective, and everyone who disagrees with me is objectively false/super biased, because if they weren't being super biased they'd obviously agree with me") And I'd push that Bodie is way more biased than Bushman in her biography. There's no denying that Bushman's beliefs significantly influinced how he interpreted things. However, with the exception of the translation of the BOM (the only part where Bushman goes all out believer) he writes a narative that both believers and non believers can pretty much get behind (he even admitted he purposefully watered down a lot of Joseph's faith promoting parts of his life from the book) By contrast, Brodie gives this psycho analysis of Joseph Smith. She makes a whole lot of cynical assumptions about what was going on in his mind that go way beyond any evidence she had in regarding those assertions And again, by scholarly standards (not just believing mormon standards) Rough Stone Rolling is widely considered to be the best biography on Joseph Smith ever written. If you go into a Mormon history conference and ask the historians what the best Joseph Smith biography is at least 90% of them will say RSR (including the non-Mormon ones) It can't just be totally written off by critics by virtue of the fact that it doesn't agree with their perspective
@@Isaac-Karbassioon My guy, it is a high-demand religion which strives to structure the way you live your entire life. If you live in a heavily populated mormon area, it's probable that cultural politics (within stakes and wards) play a role in guilting/shaming members from deviating from the church's teachings. The church tries very hard to obfuscate the shady dealings of Joseph Smith, and the organization has perpetuated generations of racism and misogyny over the past two centuries. Here are signs that a person may be in a cult, according to the internet: Isolation: You are isolated from friends and family, and leaving the group is punished. Unreasonable fear: You have an unreasonable fear of the outside world, such as conspiracies or persecution. No tolerance for questions: You are not allowed to ask questions or have critical thoughts. No financial disclosure: The group does not provide meaningful financial disclosure, such as an audited financial statement. Extreme devotion: You have extreme devotion to a person, object, or goal. Lack of diversity: The group enforces a homogeneous culture and discourages dissent. Implicit rules: There are implicit rules about how members should behave, speak, and dress. Learned shame: You feel shame and isolation from yourself, and you are constantly trying to do everything right. Cult of personality: The group creates an idealized image of a leader through flattery and praise. I can think of specific examples and situations from my decades of experience within the Mormon church and can check every box on this list. If you want to argue other Christian sects are also cults, fine.
I'm Mormon. Lots of videos about us lately. That South Park joke about Mormons being the right religion is also ironic because Mormons don't really believe in hell.
@Evil_Narwhal In short, Mormons believe that an afterlife of infinite suffering is only possible if it's you punishing yourself, refusing to accept forgiveness. It's not a literal lake of fire and brimstone where Satan tortured you. It's you basking in your own feelings of guilt and refusing to accept God's forgiveness.
@@BradyPostma That's probably the most logical explanation of what "hell" could be since it's literally impossible for anyone within a finite lifespan to do enough evil to earn an eternity of punishment.
Just coming over from JD's holiday get-together with YT historians and rose to the fly of this title like a trout on Henry's Fork. Grew up in SW Idaho in the 60s-70s and have lived in SLC for 45 years. This is a very well done overview. Thank you.
I'm not Mormon, but I love them. I live in a town with a significant Mormon population, they're nice people. The history of their religion is pretty crazy, but I don't think about that when I'm interacting with them.
@@sourskittles4187 don’t take mr beats history at face value, he’s about 50% accurate and he twists every detail even though primary sources refute him
There were Eight Witnesses who saw the golden plates in addition to the Three Witnesses. The Eight Witnesses didn't see an angel though. Joseph just showed them and let them look through the plates personally.
@matthew_tall Only Martin Harris made that claim, none of the other witnesses did. He said this because he didn't think he would be able to see something so spiritual with his physical eyes.
@gunkulator1 not true. While they varied slightly, the general agreement was around 6-8 inches in lengths and height and 40-50 pounds in weight. These are just estimates, it not like the variations were in huge ranges.
I grew up in the church, and was confused as to why, my parents always told me that people who criticized the church were just persecuting them. Now I know what crazy stuff joseph, and others in the church got up to.
Bro this stuff should be taught to you at a young age. As a little un, I was studying this stuff and getting a greater personal knowledge of the truth and history of the church
I used to like your channel because I felt like it represented people fairly and gave accurate history. I think you have totally missed the mark on this video. It is riddled with half truths and lacks nuance and is also very demeaning to others. Imagine portraying Muhammed or Buddha like this… And before anyone asks, I’m not even Mormon.
Mormon here: I thought he did just fine, though I wish he included some more Dan Vogel material. He said he left a lot of stuff out, but he also referred everyone to American Zion (which I thought was a well balanced book).
There are some spots where he gets things a little bit wrong, so I agree with you about the half truths. For example, a number of people did claim to see the plates, although they were Mormons and had direct or indirect financial incentives to try to boost Smith's credibility, but regardless that was not mentioned here. How is the video demeaning to Mormons though? There is a difference between criticizing a religion and demeaning the people who believe in that religion, and he doesn't even criticize Mormon people at all here. If you believe that a religion is taking people for a ride then the respectful thing to do is to politely but honestly tell the people who believe in that religion what you think, and then respect their freedom to disagree with you and to continue believing in and practicing their religion anyway if that is their decision. Think about if you had a neighbor who was sending thousands of dollars to a person who claims to be their grandson, and who tells your neighbor a story about how the grandson is in trouble with the mafia or has a giant hospital bill or something, but in reality the caller is not their real grandson and the money is going to a scam artist. Suppose the fake grandson also calls every month and acts kind and loving in a way that your neighbor's real grandson isn't, so that your neighbor becomes intensely emotionally attached to these calls and develops deep denial about the nature of the person on the other end of the line. Is it respectful to just say nothing to avoid offending or upsetting your neighbor in the short-run, or is it more respectful to tell your neighbor they are being taken for a ride so that the scam artist can get their money? Definitely applies to Muhammed as well. Buddha too if we're talking about versions of Buddhism that see the Buddha as having claimed to have supernatural powers or insights rather than seeing the Buddhas as having claimed to just be a mental health specialist with some helpful meditation techniques, since whether the Buddha is seen as having claimed to be superhuman or as having claimed to just be an ordinary person varies depending on the version of Buddhism. One can be respectful of religious people and still be honest with them that you don't think their religious beliefs are plausible. As Mr. Beat seems to suggest, oftentimes religions are believed in despite not being plausible because they are nonetheless reassuring or anchor communities and social institutions which people find supportive, meaningful and enjoyable to be part of. It's entirely understandable why somebody who is smart and a good person might convince themselves a religion is true in order to not upset their family or miss out on those kinds of social benefits and meaningfully symbolic rituals and practices, and Mormon communities are widely known to be nice, so there's nothing demeaning about suggesting that a lot of people allowed themselves to get taken for a ride in order to not miss out on the many positives of being part of a Mormon community.
@@sketchygetchey8299 Agreed on the point about Vogel. I’m a little familiar with Dan, I don’t think he’d agree with Mr Beat on his claim about Smith being a mere conman. Vogel, iirc believes in the pious fraud/benevolent fraud theory; the idea that Smith thought (or convinced himself) that he was a genuine prophet when he really wasn’t. There’s a difference between that and merely conning people for wives and money-which I don’t think the data can support. I think Joseph was religiously sincere, at the very least. But that’s beside the fact, that’s just my opinion of the history, but Mr Beat makes some serious blunders about quite a few historical details. I shall not enumerate here, but there is a LDS RUclips channel that went over it some, although I think I spotted a few more issues than even they covered.
Muhammad lived in the 600s and Buddha in the 500s. We know far less about them personally than we do about Joseph Smith. People with this complaint never care about it when it's a non-religious person. I don't hear anyone clamoring about the "true-nature" of Alexander Hamilton.
@@ExoticTurtle3 Alexander Hamilton and Joseph Smith play different roles in history-this is a false equivalence. As “historians”, we should attempt to understand the truest nature of whomever we research, albeit that for non-religious leaders it may be less consequential.
It's always so cool seeing places you've been in a video. I loved walking around the capitol in salt lake City, and I loved that monument. What a treat to see it again!
I quote the Church of Jesus Christ's official website here: "While the term 'Mormon Church' has long been publicly applied to the Church as a nickname, it is not an authorized title, and the Church discourages its use. Thus, please avoid using the abbreviation 'LDS' or the nickname 'Mormon' as substitutes for the name of the Church, as in 'Mormon Church,' 'LDS Church,' or 'Church of the Latter-day Saints.' The term 'Mormonism' is inaccurate and should not be used." I understand that not using these terms would mean your video would not preform as well, but when you are representing a religion, I think it is only fair to be accurate and respectful.
I understand where you're coming from but you're ignoring the fact that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is not the only branch of Mormonism. As much as they'd like to pretend they are, so calling the religion as a whole "The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints" is as inaccurate as calling all Protestants "Baptist"
@@wasabi_646 Fair point, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd argue that the existence of small splinter groups should not be justification for publically referring to an entire membership of a church by a name they do not want to be called. Mr. Beat is inaccurate when he says that only some of the members don't like to be called Mormons. From my experience as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ myself, it is a lot more than just some. We wish people would drop the nickname Mormon, but videos like this just make that more difficult.
@@jonahyoung55 Then the church would need to offer a better more inclusive alternative. I agree that we should not call religions and groups by a name they don't like but it's just as bad to completely ignore and exclude other branches who deserve just as much representation.
This recent development of mormons being offended by being called mormons is hilarious. Hinckley called himself mormon and the church officially published content titled “I’m a Mormon” for years until Nelson started to get cranky. If you’re offended by being called a mormon, just remember…Bednar said that it’s your choice to be offended.
As a Latter-Day Saint myself (I'm actually currently a service missionary!) I was pretty nervous going into this video haha but I'm somewhat relieved to say that it's one of the more historically accurate pieces out there. I'd personally include how the Church's position on slavery (in the Joseph Smith era specifically) influenced their public image - it was a big factor until Brigham Young became the prophet, when the controversial factor in the eyes of the public then became plural marriage. For anyone curious, I'd definitely recommend the historical series Saints for a detailed timeline of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints's history through the years - it goes over many supposed miraculous events but is also transparent about the uglier moments in its history (ie Mountain Meadows, the priesthood restriction, etc). As a queer Latter-Day Saint I'm no stranger to the imperfections and struggles within my Church's culture and history, but navigating these types of things has been a long and nuanced journey I've learned to come to terms with. I'll stop commenting now before I start a second Mormon War in the replies right here haha, so I'll just say, cool vid as always, glad it was somewhat respectful. 👍
@@WiloPolis03 if you actually are currently a missionary, I think you can be forgiven for how stupid your comment is and how wrong you are; after all, you're out there to teach the basics, not to know deeper facts. But you're also not out there to be dicking around on RUclips and not seeking investigators. Maybe you shouldn't be commenting crap like this without approval from your mission president, but I don't suspect you're following the rules much anyway.
@@DannyAGray What about the comment did you disagree with? Edit- By the way, service mission leaders don't really regulate everything we ever post online, we're just given general guidelines. I'm not currently a proselyting missionary (if I was then yeah, I probably wouldn't be commenting on RUclips videos haha)
@@spagootest2185 I imagine it's different for everyone. I know that being who you are isn't a sin, and most importantly, that God loves us & because of that, has a plan prepared for all of us to be as joyful as possible. I've learned to accept that it's okay to have questions without always having all the answers, knowing that they will be answered eventually in one way or another. And I know that even if the world we live in now is imperfect, blessings are promised for everyone who is willing to receive them. I think far too many people over the past few years have attempted to stir movements against LGBTQ+ individuals simply for... I mean, existing, pretty much. And that's horrifying, and we should all do what we can to promote tolerance and empathy for those with different experiences that others don't understand (which is why it's so critical to ask questions and listen before asserting and judging). Sorry if this is a little rambly lol, that's basically my take on all of it though
One overlooked part of the success of the church is the implementation of French technology on beet sugar production. America was sorely lacking at the time and it was because of a risky investment into it that the Utah-saints found huge success. The U&I Sugar Company formed and dominated, extending all over the growing west until being broken up as a monopoly in (I believe) the 1960s.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches. They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together. Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true. Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered. Jeramiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
if he actually wanted to push a bias then this was extremely tame. the mormon church has quite a few scandals that are evidence against the churches legitimacy. he could've talked about them but chose not to. the racism spread by the prophets, the incorrect translations of abrahamic text, the mountain meadow massacre, the kinderhook plates. people were lied to and so many things prove it. very simply this religion was built to scam people and has been very successful up to this day. if you want to believe in it thats fine. as long as you dont give them money. they are a scam, a fake religion built by a con artist.
yeah but it did reveal some pretty uhm weird things about the church i didn't know about before (but i guess most religion starts off weird i mean just look at the history of the catholic church)
Not that I dont like seeing Mr. Beat on Mr. Beat's YT Channel, but having other people in the video who seem super knowledgeable and have the same energy is super cool. Normally having someone other than the channel owner take over can break immersion but in this case it pulled me in more!
Most of what you said was factual, but you definitely didn't approach it without bias. Oh well, you're not the first and you won't be the last to malign us.
@@iammrbeat Seriously Mr. Beat. I thought you weren’t like this. I thought you were kinder, and more respectful. I still want to believe that you are, but the more I look at your replies, the more I fear that my own biases have blinded me from unkindness towards other groups, and I’m only now realizing it because now I’m being attacked. Edit: I don’t think it’s fair to say they weren’t being curious. We’re taught to know our history. To ask questions. To dig into the imperfections. They don’t agree with your conclusions or your interpretations. That doesn’t make them stupid.
Incurious ≠ stupid. A true discussion of many of the raised points by way of Mormon apologetics would go a long way in maybe bridging some gaps. However... I've found most Mormons cling hard to the beliefs and won't waver or consider anything different. Most people have a hard time swallowing a talking hat, polygamy, special underwear, no caffeine (ok, it's self control and bodily cleanliness, I get it, but I need some caffeine...), and a lot of other "strange" (not the right word I want, just sleep deprived nightshifter) practices/beliefs. Also, lots of people get big mad about big money. Build them temples high and holy, excellent use of worldly funds while we can't take of our own neighbors in need. The beliefs each side holds are quite different and finding middle ground seems implausible. I for one applaud Mr. Beat for not sugar coating his feeling about it or shying away from doing a video about it.
Hey member of the LDS church here. Overall good (mostly) actuate video. The biggest thing you missed is the 8 witnesses of the Book of Mormon all of which saw the golden plates, heard gods voice telling them it was true and testified of seeing them for the rest of their lives many having their final words saying Joseph smith didn’t lie.
"Critics question whether Martin Harris physically saw the plates. Harris continued to testify to the truth of the Book of Mormon even when he was estranged from the church, at least during the early years of the movement. He "seems to have repeatedly admitted the internal, subjective nature of his visionary experience." Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2: 255. The foreman in the Palmyra printing office that produced the first Book of Mormon said that Harris "used to practice a good deal of his characteristic jargon and 'seeing with the spiritual eye,' and the like." Pomeroy Tucker, Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism (New York: D. Appleton and Co., 1867) p. 71 in EMD, 3: 122. John H. Gilbert was the typesetter for most of the book, and he said that he had asked Harris, "Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?" Harris "looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, 'No, I saw them with a spiritual eye.'" John H. Gilbert, "Memorandum," 8 September 1892, in EMD, 2: 548. Two other Palmyra residents said that Harris told them that he had seen the plates with "the eye of faith" or "spiritual eyes." Martin Harris interviews with John A. Clark, 1827 & 1828 in EMD, 2: 270; Jesse Townsend to Phineas Stiles, 24 December 1833, in EMD, 3: 22. In 1838, Harris told an Ohio congregation that "he never saw the plates with his natural eyes, only in vision or imagination." Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 April 1838 in EMD, 2: 291. A neighbor of Harris in Kirtland, Ohio, said that Harris "never claimed to have seen [the plates] with his natural eyes, only spiritual vision." Reuben P. Harmon statement, c. 1885, in EMD, 2: 385."
@@Freaky0Nina The claims that Martin Harris only saw the plates with "Spiritual eyes" are laughable. I can hit you right back with just as many quotes that prove he DIDN'T see them with "spiritual eyes". Many of these are in RESPONSE to your earlier quotes. Do better research. Gentlemen, do you see that hand? Are you sure you see it? Are your eyes playing a trick or something? No. Well, as sure as you see my hand so sure did I see the angel and the plates. -Martin Harris, quoted in "Statement of William M. Glenn to O. E. Fischbacher," May 30, 1943, Cardston, Alberta, Canada, cited in Deseret News, October 2, 1943. Well, just as plain as you see that chopping block, I saw the plates; and sooner than I would deny it I would lay my head upon that chopping block and let you chop it off. -Martin Harris, quoted in "Statement of Comfort Elizabeth Godfrey Flinders to N. B. Lundwall," September 2, 1943, Ogden, Utah, cited in Assorted Gems of Priceless Value. I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen, and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the gold plates...An angel appeared to me and others. -Martin Harris, quoted in "Affidavit of George Godfrey, October 29, 1921, original still held by attesting notary John J. Shumway, Garland, Utah.
You know when an already established liar and conman in your community says he speaks with God and that God gave him golden plates that he cannot show anyone, then proceeds to seek political power, acquire money and other men's wives by the dozen, you might be in a Cult.
Thanks for the video, needed some relief today. Living here for 48 years and now I'm ruined for life elsewhere. Half of my wives enjoyed this as well so you have dozens of new subscribers. May all your wives bare many children for you. Cheers!
He had all of his sources in the description man, the only evidence the people that say it's inaccurate have is what they're church told them without a citation. Empirical evidence is balanced.
@@iammrbeat it tells me that the content is pandering to people with negative feelings toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are many many credible, empirical sources that shine light on the other side of this story, none of which were mentioned.
I'll give LDS credit, they don't doggedly stick to a dogma when they know the rest of the country will hate them for it, they tried that in the past and it got them occupied by the US military for like a decade where their faith had to live in hiding. If they see which way the wind is blowing, they have a revelation and tell the flock that you should probably stop doing the thing people don't like anymore.
Non-religious viewer here; This video just felt mean-spirited. I feel like there was a large lack of context, and your bias against the churches' validity was apparent. Not every video is going to be great, I understand, but I hope the next one is better than this.
@@soloRanger537 not just mean but outright poorly researched. He has a serious axe to grind and there was plenty of half truths or straight up lies throughout
Being honest may feel like he is being “mean-spirited”. When you look at the objective facts about Joseph Smith’s life and have sympathy for how many followers he tricked it is justified. Here are a couple core (objective) facts about Joseph Smith- tell me if you think this person is good or bad -Had 40 wives, many of which he kept secret from his first wife Emma. -Had a 6 wives under the age of 18. -Arrested 42 times in his lifetime. -Before the church was popularized, both Joseph and his dad were literal “treasure hunter” scammers that never had a case of finding ANY treasure. If you learned about someone with this background do you honestly think they were a good person and God’s representative?
@@SilentInsanity369 what you said makes zero sense. The whole cult discussion is old news, define cult for me because I’d bet you’d have trouble capturing the LDS church without looping in all religion
@@hunterphilbrick7649 Well! Xochipilli, the Aztec Butterfly God and patron protector of homosexuality, is a cool dude. The guy will ride and die with Quetzalcoatl even he starves out of his blood fuel (Quetzalcoatl and his Mesoamerican counterparts such as Kukulkan, Olmec Stone Dragon, Fire Serpent of San Juan Mogote, etc; hate human sacrifices). That god has such charisma and it’s no wonder he has a sect following even from cis-straight people.
@@hunterphilbrick7649 regurgitating Fox News BS. Nice. Never mind the fact that what you just said objectively makes zero sense. A classic “I have never had a nuanced thought in my life” moment.
Here in Argentina, Mormon churches stand out for looking pristine and tidy even when built in the most miserable neighborhoods. Always wondered where they got all that funding...
@@tadeojablonski105 10% thiting from all earnings is required for members to be in good standing. More donations are encouraged. Vast majority of its clergy is lay and unpaid. Add to that that the Church heavily encourages and helps its members to get good education and become leaders and they get a LOT of money with not much relative spending.
From mormon members who pax 10% of their wages yearly. In the mormon church, money and materialism is very important in their church. My perspective is faith and moral ethics is more important than money on religion.
So, the Jehovah's Witness, Seventh Day Adventists, and Christian Science groups are still around and they believe in Christ and aren't Mormon, and all came about around the same time period. The argument doesn't work.
judaism has been around for thousands of years. jewish people dont even believe jesus was the messiah, and yet it is still around. why is mormonism special, its only existed for 200 years? if someone asked me based on just this information which church was more likely to be correct i would say the older one.
I really enjoy your videos. I have watched most of them. It’s really sad that you twice have chosen to assume the worst methods and motivations from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. There are critics of these men and defenders, but you only give credit to the critics.
Well, there's really only two or three options for JS, huh? Either he was telling the truth, he was a con man, or he was literally insane. Given how he interacted with others, it's safe to say he wasn't insane, so that brings it down to con-man or prophet. If you think someone is a con-man, you can't exactly think highly of their methods/motivations
Looking through all of the testimonies of people who knew him closely along with his own journal entries, he seems to clearly have believed what he was claiming. I haven’t seen any evidence that he believed he was pulling a con.
because joseph smith doesn’t deserve a good legacy. the critics are right about him. and i hope more people recover from this cult so his name will be forgotten sooner.
Dang I was hoping this would at least be accurate. You know the preface of the Book of Mormon has 8 witness plus the three on literally page one….. I always loose trust with RUclipsrs when I see how little they actually learn about subjects they present
After seeing this I now call into question all of your videos for their Historical accuracy. Sadly looks like you are just out for popularity and not Historical accuracy.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches. They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together. Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true. Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered. Jeramiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Not one point of this video is inaccurate, you were just mad that he is not upholding the lies that your church has told you. Your church can’t even stay consistent with its lives, it consistently contradicts itself. Inconsistency is the most consistent part about the LDS church, other than it’s abuse and bigotry.
“Why are Mormons?” Then why are Americans?, why are Canadians?, Why are the Japanese?, why are Germans?, why are Mexicans?, why are Catholics?, why are Buddhists?, why are Muslims? I demand answers Mr. Beat.
Snarky, disrespectful, poorly researched, religious bigotry. Which is especially sad considering your target audience of impressionable jr. High kids. You’re a teacher?? The amount of good the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints does through out the world is undeniable. This was as piss poor a summary of early LDS history as I’ve ever heard. Are you a comedian or educator?
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches. They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together. Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true. Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered. Jeramiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus bein g worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@ this copy and paste is complete evangelical anti Mormon BS. If you think your so called evidence for biblical claims are scientifically verifiable your head is up your well let’s say in the sand. There is absolutely zero evidence of the resurrection of Jesus. I believe he was but that is a spiritual matter. Yes hundreds of years after Jesus is reported to have lived many copies of the biblical text were made. But to consider this as evidence is silly and even if there were original copies of the biblical text you must trust that what they are saying actually happened. People can write or say whatever they want doesn’t prove anything. The truth claims of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have much more authentic first hand witnesses of miracles and angelic visitations. There are first hand witnesses to the gold plates that contained the book of Mormon. Matters of faith are verified by the Holy Spirit.
Did you miss the fact he was talking about the Mormons? There are few pseudo-religious groups more worthy of snark, and he's doing the world a favor if he really is influencing high school kids.
Mr Beat, this seems a little one-sided. Your stuff is usually a little more nuanced. Kind of surprised you didn’t interview any LDS scholars about their faith.
He considers anyone who believes in the LDS faith to lack credibility. Like how some members of the faith consider those outside of the faith to lack any credibility. A curious double standard for sure.
@@ferrumignis OK tell me the difference between a cult and a religion. I really want to know because I am a member if you consider our religion a cult then Catholics are in a cult idiot.
Mr. Beat, I am disappointed in you. You let your bias color your work and thus have misrepresented me and my religion. You clearly do not understand the history, context, and culture of the Latter-day Saints, and are leading people who know little to nothing about us to hold the same misconceptions that you do. I love seeing videos made about my faith, but when they are so obviously poorly researched and so clearly filled with false or misguided narratives, it would be better for you not to have made the video. You should feel ashamed in your total lack of historiography and your failure as an educator to actually educate those you teach on RUclips. You may have some good reason to dislike Latter-day Saints and our faith, but what comes across here is pure bias. You know better than to make such a bad video! Even if you wanted to make a video that claims that my religion is false, you could at least get the history right. Do better. Be better. You have a great platform and voice, and with great power comes a great responsibility to use your communication and education skills for good, not to spread misinformation and disinformation on the internet. Best of luck
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem. Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ. Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1) 1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers. 1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found. Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism. Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles. Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches. They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together. Isaiah 43:10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. Isaiah 44:6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true. Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered. Jeramiah 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it? We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven. We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection. The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament. The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@trentitybrehm5105 There are answers to all of your opposing views and interpretations of scripture. If you want to learn about them, you can go to an apologist such as those at FAIR Mormon. However, my point in commenting was not to make a scriptural case for my faith that would satisfy you personally. My point was to get across to Mr. Beat that he very clearly misrepresented the history, belief, and practices of my religion with obviously bad intentions.
I literally saw Mr. Terry filming while I was working, locating the utilities that feed into the temple lol. Fun fact regarding the coordinate system all being anchored to one point: Surveyors STILL use that system in areas of northern Utah that are old enough for it to have been used in the original planning of the city, and It breaks down all the way to individual feet. The common local mythology is that if the USA invaded and destroyed the city, you'd be able to reconstruct it entirely based off that one reference point.
I've read a bit more on this, and it turns out it is significantly worse than I thought. Below is my original comment I wrote while I was happy to have a video that isn't a total lie. There are also a lot of half truths. As a "Mormon", I am surprised by the respect and accuracy of this video, I do have some qualms (in loosely chronological order): 1. Describing JS Sr. as a wizard and as someone who didn't care about actually being accurate in his perdictions is insinuating that he was a major conman, while you could say that, I think that doesn't take into account just how common supposed seers and such were in those days in that area. 2. With the stuff like the Garden of Eden being in Daviess County, that wasn't official revelation. There is an old joke that I like: (though it is slightly wrong regarding Catholics) Catholic doctrine is that the pope is infallible, but they don’t believe it; Mormon doctrine is that the prophet is fallible, but they don’t believe it. Many people have some random beliefs that one prophet mentioned one time about something or the other (Bigfoot, for example, and also that Harris quote). 3. There is an explanation for why JS didn't retranslate the plate portion. That section talks about a young man going out into the wilderness with his family and eventually cross to the Americas. The 144 pages were from the father's perspective, and supposedly the son was commanded to also write down what happened because God knew the earlier pages would be lost and that Joseph Smith needed to learn that his actions have consequences. (God only let Smith give away the writing after he asked 3 times and God said no, before God finally relented) 4. With the Safety Society, Smith ended up feeling so guilty about losing people's money after the market crashed that he was paying people back until he died. (You can argue this was just good for his image, but I think he could have pulled it off either way and was being genuine) 5. In Nauvoo, doctrine didn't change, it just went from being the default for the society to not being accepted by Mormons. For example, there was never a no plural marriage doctrine that was overturned, there was just a command to practice it, and people weren't before because monogamy was the norm. 6. The 14 year old wife wasn't really a wife as you would think, it is a marriage for after this life. The girl was never with Joseph Smith alone and it was really just to tie two influential families in the early Mormonism movement together. 7. People didn't go along with Brigham Young, there was a vote and Young was supposedly transfigured to look like Joseph Smith in a vision many people received. 8. Those secret polygamists who got new wives after the official stopping of the practice got (and still to get) excommunicated. 9. While I would argue that JS was not a con artist (I am a member, afterall), you do need to do a lot of historical work to actually puzzle out whether or not you consider him a conman. What I would say is the truth is pretty hard to find, and just about everyone was biased in some way, whether for or against him. From my readings of his journal and accounts of him, I don't think he did or would have been able to successfully make up a whole new theology, book of scripture, and a church with much opposition, even from people who originally were trusted. (That's one of the biggest things for me, the 3 witnesses and many other informal psudo-witnesses never denied the Book of Mormon and such, even after many left the church after problems with JS, even on their deathbeds.) All in all, I appreciate the video, I am really nitpicking with my above problems. Thank you for reading through this and for making accurate content about something I care so deeply about. Despite the anti-Mormon slant, I will probably recommend this video to friends who ask me about the history of my religion. P. S. I am sure there are other nits to pick, especially regarding informal witnesses and stuff, but I am in no position to comment on any of that. You did a pretty stellar job compared to what I'm used to and I honestly don't care too much after you already covered the history well and even went on-site to many things; your focus is history and you did a great job covering the history.
@@I_Love_Learning Also #8 isn’t true either, I recommend looking into post manifesto polygamy. It was supported secretly by the Church for years after 1890. It wasn’t until the 1910’s during the Reed-Smoot hearings that they finally stopped secretly sanctioning them
So just because something was common at the time doesn't make it any less of a con. The spiritualism movement was very popular in the late 1800s and they were all con artists...very good ones at that. People who sell snake oil and call themselves doctors are still con artists, period. I agree though that there is a lot of bias. I look to science to make up for the bias in history. I know both sides.
"Insinuating" Joseph Smith was a major con man? Let me correct you there. Fact: Joseph Smith was a major con man. I mean, buddy, there's simply no doubt about it. Good grief.
Also a member but I absolutely wouldn't recommend this video to anybody who wants to know more about our faith. It made light of and misrepresented pretty much everything. I'm very disappointed in Mr. Beat. He obviously has a chip on his shoulder about it all.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Book of Mormon has changed my life and given me purpose in life and faith in Jesus Christ. I encourage anyone who really wants to learn for themselves to read it prayerfully and seek sincere sources rather than just trusting a guy with a RUclips channel whose only apparent credentials are that he’s interested in history.
@ my friend, I’d guess that I have studied the facts more than someone who goes by the online name of ‘fortnite87463’. I’ve been studying his life and his works my whole life. Joseph Smith was an honorable person and even more than that he was a prophet of God. Put away your controller for a while and pick up the Book of Mormon. It might change your life
Yikes, this is a new low. You treat Trump supporters with more respect than this. Maybe try talking to members of the group you are going to research next time 🙄
14:13 Let's also not forget that the Book of Mormon literally teaches that the Native Americans are descendants of an ancient tribe of Israelites who migrated to the Americas on boats thousands of years ago. In other words, Mormon/LDS theology states that Native Americans are ancestrally Jewish.
@@IowanMatthew683 The official position of the Church is that the peoples described in the Book of Mormon are among the ancestors of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Based on the distances described in the text, the events likely occurred within a relatively small geographical region, comparable in size to modern-day Switzerland. Alternative interpretations often rely on overly simplistic or speculative assumptions. It is also acknowledged by the church that other groups of people inhabited the Americas during that period.
@@NoteworthyAnalysis Lol, okay buddy. Before 2007, most copies of the Book of Mormon literally had as their preface "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except for the Lamanites [a rogue tribe of Israelite descendants in the Americas], and they are are the principal ancestors of American Indians."
@@IowanMatthew683 So what? The introduction was added later and is not considered part of the scripture itself. Many Bibles also include introductory texts that reflect editorial interpretations or biases. Why should this be significant? It’s a non-issue.
Mr. Beat, for someone who considers Mormons some of the genuinely nicest people you know, you really don’t seem to think very highly of them at all. I was frankly shocked by the level of disrespect and contempt displayed in this video. You don’t have to agree with their beliefs at all. But to basically call them all idiots and dupes without even talking to them about their beliefs in your video comes across as really smug and condescending. I’ve been a fan of yours for a while and honestly, I am disappointed. I guess I just expected more from you. The worst part though, is that I suspect those Latter-day Saint friends of yours are still going to be kind and respectful to you even after you just took a huge, very public dump on them and their beliefs. You don’t need to sugarcoat your opinions, but I still think you owe them an apology.
I would recommend this video from a member of the Church, it is pretty respectful to Mr. Beat, dispite his tone in this video: ruclips.net/video/zG11nRuKJgE/видео.htmlsi=a4v0Y6B2aG2Y1gMu
He admitted to being a conman. And his Book of Mormon is an obvious con. And the Mormon church admits tyat the pogp is a con because it’s just so obvious. They brought the paper that Joseph claimed was written “by the hand of Abraham upon the papyrus” to Egyptologists and Egyptologists said that it was just a regular pagan Egyptian funerary text. Joseph was a very very abusive person. Sorry that you got wrapped up with his con😕
Wow, were you trying to make a video filled with half-truths and distortions? What other subjects have you covered that are filled with bad research and bias points of view? I didn’t realize mocking people’s religious beliefs in the name of entertainment was part of a history teacher’s job. Real academic research has been done on the rise of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Joseph Smith yet you didn’t include any of that in your story. I realize this is “just a You Tube video” but I would try and verify the truthfulness of your content before you post it.
He also didnt include the part where they got in legal trouble for mixing capitol punishment with their belief in blood atonement a clear violation of the separation of church and state.
@@heathermorris893 its factual history you can look it up online. Just used “mormons in utah introuble for blood atonement” and found various instances of mormons violating the separation of church and state on law websites.
@@heathermorris893 lets also not forget how joseph smith distorted the Truth when he said his followers could “become like gods”. Completely antithetical to anything our Lord Jesus Christ ever taught
In 1 John 3:2 (NIV) we are taught “Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall BE LIKE HIM, for we shall see him as he is.” If we are children of God and can become like Him, doesn’t that mean we could become a God? John says it hasn’t been revealed yet meaning that it will be revealed in the future. Thus requiring additional revelation from God which is what Joseph Smith received.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I left a lot of interesting stuff out, so I encourage you to please explore more on your own. One of the things I left out was that there's a spot in Daviess County, Missouri, that some LDS used to believe is where Adam and Eve lived after being expelled from the Garden of Eden. Fun times.
Edit: I need to apologize. First, if you are a practicing Mormon, I truly didn't mean to offend you. I should have been more sensitive trying to explain the history. Second, I was guilty of conjecture in this video and didn't reveal that. I was only speculating that Isaac Morley may have have influenced Joseph Smith to become a polygamist. I will try to not be so careless with this stuff in the future.
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How'd you learn this? 😏
Why are mormons?
the video title is an enduring thinker
From Malaysia! This is so interesting! Keep educating Mr Beat!
How did you get 57 comments in 7 minutes?
61 now
“Where are Mormons”
“I’ll do you one better. Who are Mormons?”
“I’ll do you one better. Why are Mormons”
To what extent are Mormons?
lol
How are Mormons?
@@Enby_WI’m doing alright 😂
The most important question of all: ARE mormons?
In the 1880s, many Jews living in the Russian Empire knew about the Mormons in Utah and saw it as an example of religious freedom in the US. One of the founders of Am Olam, a group which created Jewish agricultural communities in the US, specifically noted the Mormons and their communities in Utah as an inspiration to create the Jewish agricultural communities in the US.
@@GeneaVlogger I lived in Utah. Close to my home was Jerusalem, UT. It was a former Jewish agricultural settlement that is now a ghost town. There is a burial site still there.
@@KidGibson So they own the Mormons too...Interesting....
For more context RE had "Pale of Settlement" where Jews were segregated to regions far from capital, mostly in Ukraine, Belarus and Poland. One of unfortunate results of that was in 1940s where USSR had most Jewish people located on Axis path.
@@KasumiRINA You're correct but I just want to add on: the Jews in the Pale of Settlement weren't moved there, they had been living there for a long time in what was previously the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that got devoured by Russia, Prussia, and Austria. However they were prevented from moving elsewhere in the Russian Empire for the majority of their time as part of it.
Just felt the need to add this as your last sentence makes it seem like the USSR/Russian Empire relocated them there, when they really just kept them there.
LOL. The population density was probably 1 person per 500 miles. And 90% of Americans where probably white AND some form of Christian. Its easier to be tolerant when you don't have to rub elbows so much, and tolerance is more or less theoretical.
I think the only missing piece is how Mormonism fit into the broader religious picture at the time. Mormons weren’t the only splinter group forming at the time, this is also the era that gave birth to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists, and Shakers. It was a time of a major shake-up in Protestantism as it was practiced in the US.
Knowing Better covered this well in his video mentioning Mormonism
Coincidentally, the JW founder also was a Mid-Atlantic Proletarian (A Hanerdasher/Tailor). And Marx says Religion is a tool for the rich.
What’s a Shaker ?
@@Kanal7Indonesia That was a nickname that they got, because when they were worshiping or “filled with the Holy Spirit” they would shake
@ oh lol
thanks for the shoutout 0:02
No prob
Lmao
lol
Absolute chad
Lmao
A guy told me a few months ago he wanted to write a novel about Jesus in North America, I told him the Mormons already did that.
Never enough stories about mexican gardeners though...
This is still argued about, but Mormon Jesus was in either South America, or possibly central America. Moroni, the last contributor to the "Golden Plates" travelled as far as he did to avoid being murdered.
Some dude named Matthew had his novel first.
Historian here.
I think this video is so controversial because it breaks a common social convention, i.e., to suspend disbelief about the credibility of religious origins in an academic context, even if discounting those origins is the logical result of an empirical analysis.
Like, if you don't believe that Jesus is the son and appointed messiah of the Abrahamic god, you might reasonably conclude that he was a con-man (if he existed at all). If you don't believe Mohammed actually received visions from the Abrahamic god, then you might, again, conclude he was the most perfidious of swindlers. But we never say those things in academia. I often throw in qualifiers like "according to Christian/Islamic tradition" and students might infer from other comments that I hold to more materialistic or mythical interpretations of events, but I don't just say, "Hey, these religions are false and therefore Jesus and/or Mohammed were con-men."
Maybe it seems like a betrayal of honesty, but I think in a pluralistic academic society we have agreed to set aside accusing major prophets of being scammers. I mean, I hear that Yahweh himself has a pre-Canaanite history with a people called the Shasu. He was an idol with the tetragrammaton carved into it. Then the Yahwist cult came to Canaan and merged with the pre-existing god El (Elohim), replaced Baal, and lost the idol. If I conclude from this that the god of Abraham, Yahweh, the center of religious thinking for all Western Civilization, is fake, should I teach that most Abrahamic prophets in history were con-men? We just don't do that for world religions.
I think many of the Latter Day Saints in the comments are chagrined at your video because it's a reminder that they aren't seen as a real religion or Christian sect by many Americans. LDS members are used to getting treated like a cult, an other, by exclusionary Evangelical types, but they weren't expecting it from you, Mr. Beat. They didn't expect you to say their religion was true, but they probably assumed you would give it the standard courtesy accorded to the prophets of other religions.
I'm not saying I have the answer to how to treat these cases. I, too, find much of Smith's biography appalling and sincerely worry about people seeing him as a role model. But calling him a con-man opens up a huge can of worms. If we make such judgements based upon our materialistic understanding of the world or even just call out those whose prophecies went unfulfilled as false prophets, we will be faced with some uncomfortable choices. Was Nat Turner a false prophet? How about Wovoka, the founder of the Ghost Dance Movement? Was he a con-man? I think we're in pretty dangerous territory here.
Ex Mormon here. Yes, it's a Cult. No need to sugar coat these liars.
Well said but Mr beat just honestly expressed his thoughts on J. Smith based on facts . There's nothing wrong with that.
We're faced with an issue in Academia. Do we go forth and state interpretations of information we have, or do we refuse to claim anything we aren't concrete about? I respect thoroughly the passion researchers have towards refraining from assumptions, but I believe this refrain harms more than it prevents harm. There is no place for "if" or "maybe", any human with brain cells understand the uncertainty of the world or chooses what uncertainty they will refuse. There never will be a certainty in the future to wait for before making claims when it comes to religions.
@@atrustworthyfellow6887
The historical records are clear that Smith was a con artist.
Well the main difference is probably his demonstrated criminal history related to “con-man” activities. You have to draw the line on calling a spade and spade at some point.
Also if historians want to be taken seriously they should probably be able to say obvious myths in all religions have no evidence and are not historically supported. Why are we giving any leeway to obvious myths for any religion? Sadly for Mormons, their religion is just one of the easiest to demonstrably prove as false. We just know too much.
imagine if joesph smith was actually trying to be a comedian but someone took the joke too literally
lol same with Trump?
@@iammrbeat Vermin Supreme (The free ponies guy) said he thinks he paved the way for Trump.
@@iammrbeatTrump? That actor from home alone?
@@mongol-jan You mean that guy who worked at McDonald's, right?
@@mongol-janHome Alone 2: Lost in New York
"Hello, my name is Elder Beat, and i would like to share with you the most amazing book"
Hasa Diga Eeboway
Have fun in Hell!
It was written on Golden Plates. But no, you can't see it.
@@iammrbeatinstead I’ll just write what is on the golden plates onto normal paper, that’s kinda what god is going for
During my final years of Mormonism, there was a missionary in our ward in Texas named Elder Price. I asked him if he’d ever introduced himself at doors using that spiel and he confirmed he had.
Hmmmm I feel like you didn't do enough research.
such as?
@@thepukas He didn't research what hand ol Joseph wiped with😢
"Mercer" "Mercantile" "Mercenary" "Mercado"
-merc-,root. -merc- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning "trade".
No silver, no tea. No silver, silk. No copper, no colones. No Carthaginian copper mine, no Roman coin. Etc., etc., etc.
These people AREN'T your PEOPLE. Sugar, cotton, silk, coffee, chocolate, corn, avocados, citrus fruit, etc. were never theirs and they have devised countless ways to fool people into believing that they were or economically marginalizing them until they BECAME theirs.
Don't get involved, in any way, in their problems.
@@thepukas ruclips.net/video/zG11nRuKJgE/видео.htmlsi=xjL_rOQWo-W5mkCi
Christianity as a whole is an aberration created by the murderous raging of a people forced, in the end, to wear the symbol of the many people they literally crucified who, in the end, came to conquer them-all of them.
Central European, Ethnic northern European, North African, Eastern coastal African, Middles Eastern, Asiatic, SICILIAN, etc.
Italians and "Romans" alike never liked Sicilians, because they had familial trade ties with middle eastern Arabic trade and military parties.
I think maybe you should do more research.
You could make a religion out of this.
A Mr. Beat-led religion, where taking a sacrament is known as "dropping the Beat".
No wait…. Don’t.
Hej! Mi rekonas cin el la Esperanto diskordo
@@cuddlecreeper8 Saluton!
@@thekingofthings2002 Welcome to your final test, I'm Mr. Beast
You can scrap the S, cuz’ I never miss a beat!
Non-Mormon born and raised in Utah here, I had to learn a lot of this in school. I wish you were my history teacher then! Keep up the great content
Thank you so much!
Non-Mormon Utahn here as well, I’m seriously glad for this video, we didn't learn much of the stuff that presents the church as less than perfect. So thanks for educating the ignorant in and outside of Utah Mr. Beat!
@@squidnt4103 I am a Mormon and a Utahn. I wish we learned more of the warts-and-all history of Mormonism.
I read quite a lot of academic history of the church, and I find it fascinating. And it's better to know this stuff than to be surprised by critics of the church who know gotcha criticisms you haven't heard of before.
Is Mormon influence really that far? I heard it is changing now due to non-Mormons there. Also, how is it being a Non-Mormon in Mormon land?
@@KingK2205 the influence certainly is felt in our politics, education, and general city vibe. But yeah it’s definitely changing to be less religious, as is pretty much this whole country. I like living here regardless, I truly consider it a great state to live. And I never feel underrepresented as a minority since it’s quite diverse
I met two mormom missionaries from utah in Mikkeli Finland. I chatted with them for a moment and got a free book of mormon from them. They were called Ethan and David. Good and clean people i have nothing against them coming here
@@ville7762 we appreciate that! Even if you disagree with us over religion, we can still be friends! Thank you!
Those "good and clean people" kept child marriage legal in my state
@Lexinomicron things that never happened for $1,000, Alex
Love this!
Thank you so much for talking with the missionaries, I’m planning on going on a mission soon and it genuinely makes their day whenever you take the time to talk to them
Mr Beat I told my history teacher about your videos and he watches them now
That's awesome. Thank you for letting them know about my channel!!
@iammrbeat You could've done something good here and fairly and empathetically portrayed a marginalized minority group to your massive audience. Instead you decided to pile on the hate bandwagon and amplify the unrestrained abuse that Mormons experience online. You may have gained some viewers by punching down in this manner, but it has come at the cost of your integrity.
@@kp6553 he uses references from various media that mock Mormonism, and I see how that might offend you. But are you alleging there are historical inaccuracies in this video?
@mattkidroske yes, the main one being his claim that "no one saw the plates." In reality, there were about twenty people who claimed they physically saw or held the plates. Several of them claimed they were able to flip through the pages and look at the engraved characters. Mr. Beat could've said that he doesn't believe them, or he could've speculated that Joseph forged the plates somehow, but nonetheless he shouldn't have said that no one saw the plates as that is plainly contradicted by the historical record.
@@kp6553 source please?
SLC was so much fun. The city has changed so much over the last decade. I think we made a difference at the National Council on Public History. I've had at least 10 emails from folks who went to our panel and wanted to discuss more. Plus, it's just plain fun hanging out
SLC is to UT what Austin is to TX. A liberal blue oasis in a sea of red.
I have honestly had some of the craziest nights out in Salt Lake City 😂 I'm shocked that this was a place I could have a "Dude, where's my car?" experience 😂
It was definitely a blast. Glad you could sneak into this video for a bit. :)
Another Great educational channel
If you’re ever in the area again make sure to hit up Benchmark Books!
Hey Mr Beat!
So I made a decision today: I’m going to run for my local school board. I was inspired both by your educational value and by some recent immoral behavior by some of the school staff. However, I wish to learn more about the school board and how it works in detail. I really want to make a positive change in my community, and I feel like your experience could really help me out! Thanks for all you do!
Wouldn't school boards differ from school to school and state to state? Not sure there would be a universal video.
People often ask why are Mormons? But they never ask how are Mormons?
I was doing awful until I left :)
And I was doing awful till I came back
@@BullyMaguire2007-1 only because they always tell us about their burning in the bosom testimonies.
They are doing very bad, abusing the kids in their church.
@@timmiestabrnak we are actually doing mostly okay other than the deluge of anti-mormon abuse and conspiracy theories we deal with just by existing on the internet
It's pretty cool that you went to a bunch of the historical sites. A lot of people just make videos from their desks, but seeing the physical context makes a big difference.
It’d be cool to see it all in person. The more I see of Salt Lake City lately, the more I want to see it, it looks like a beautiful city. Like a smaller Denver, but tucked more in the mountains. I give props to Mr. Beat for filming at the locations. It must take a good amount of prep and scripting to make his videos flow smoothly. Plus I’m sure he gets a good vacation with his family out of it aswell, if they’re all able to come along
The Mormon association with beehives isn’t just because of industrialness, it’s also a reference to the Deseret in the Book of Mormon. In the Book of Mormon, there is an account of a group of early settlers to the Americas called the Jaredites who used a special beehive called a Deseret to keep bees. (I’ve read the Book of Mormon myself, although I’m not a Mormon)
I tried to read it but I couldnʼt because every sentence begins with the same phrase lol
@deutschermichel5807 that's thanks to a Hebrewism. The ancients didn't have sympols for periods or apostrophes, they had phrases to show the next statement
@@Robert-rw5lm But why is the Bible written in so much better style than the Book of Mormon? Did the Jews who migrated before the invention of the Cogge just forget all other Hebrew phrases to begin a sentence?
@@deutschermichel5807 Well the Bible was either not written in Hebrew (New Testament) or translated quite a bit to get to where we are now (Majority of Old Testament). The BoM was only translated (supposedly) from RE to English
@@deutschermichel5807 and it came to pass 💀
I met a dude who was Mormon. He was chill, I learned a lot about Mormonism from him.
Did you smoke weed with him?
I too learned mormonism from a chill mormon that I knew
Lmfao, when they start talking about dinosaurs roaming the earth with man, that's when I usually walk away, but you do you.
@@Thunderous333
What the heck are you talking about? We don’t believe that.
@@Isaac-Karbassioon Hey, don't blame me, blame the missionaries that literally looked me in the eye and told me that. Maybe they were being weird, but I mean, if their job is to convert people, they do an awful job of it.
Johnny Harris: Who are Mormons?
Mr. Beat: I’ll do you one better: Why are Mormons?
ha, I didn't even think of that
@@Iwishiwasanoscarmeyerweinerdepends on the kind of day we’re having.
8:00 that’s not quite right. He’s supposedly found them when he was 14, but an angel told him that he couldn’t take it. He supposedly went back and looked at them four more times before he finally dug them up for good.
There are different versions of the story! It's crazy how many different versions there are.
@@iammrbeatum.... no, there aren't different versions of Smith retrieving the records. As a "history" channel, you'd think you'd get that right
Of course there are. @@DannyAGray
@@iammrbeat Are you confusing the supposed different accounts with the First Vision accounts? It certainly seems like you are
@@DannyAGray No, there are still major inconsistencies between Smith's different, later accounts of his visits to the hill.
Thank you so much for subtitles. Very underrated
Right on
I can't stand this new meaning of the word underrated. It doesn't mean what you think it means. Who has rated subtitles in order for them to be 'under' so?
They’re more underrated than timestamps 😉
@@MicrophonesInTheTrees Stand it, fool. It is you who does not understand the meaning.
Love long form videos!
Right on. I'm curious...do you watch the longer ones on TV or on your phone still?
@iammrbeat mainly my phone, just for the convenience.
@@iammrbeat Not the person you asked the question to, Mr Beat, but I feel like I'm in the minority that watches a lot of RUclips on my TV. There are dozens of us, dozens! 😅
I watch most RUclips on my tv but sometimes download to my phone and listen like a podcast.
@@gguerard Same here. Love doing that while working out
Hey Mr. Beat! I am a big fan of your channel and was really excited that you posted about the LDS church. I find the history and the beginnings of Mormonism to be extremely fascinating. I have read and done much research on Joseph Smith. I noticed that you said that Joseph's friend Isaac Morley was a polygamist before Joseph was. What is your source for that? I have read all the books that you had posted in the description and I do not recall any of them saying that about Isaac Morley. To my knowledge Isaac Morley's first plural wife was Leanora Snow Leavitt in 1843. If you have credible sources feel free to correct me.
Another note was that you stated that Joseph Smith looked for the gold plates for quite some time. However, Joseph states that in 1823 angel Moroni came to him during the night. Later on (I believe the next day) Joseph was led by the angel to where the plates were buried. The angel told him that he could not take the plates but had to visit the spot every year on that exact day. This continued on for four years and it was in 1827 that Joseph claims to finally retrieve the plates.
I still found your video interesting, if you have sources that is saying what I am saying is wrong please feel free to correct me.
@Iwishiwasanoscarmeyerweiner Right, because studying how one guy "made something up" is a waste of time. By that logic, we should stop studying all religions. After all, they all could be "made up," right? Nevermind that entire civilizations were built upon religions influencing billions of lives and culture. Funny how these "made up" things shape history but hey keep sticking to your deep analysis.
Researching the history of an organization that has impacted millions of people over the course of 200 years does not sound like a waste of time.
I was careless with this portion of the video. It was pure conjecture that Smith was influenced by Morley to become a polygamist and I should have made that clear. I am sorry about this mistake, and have noted it in the pinned comment and on the "Corrections" card of the video. The Joseph Smith Papers was the source, but I went back and checked and indeed, my dates that I wrote down may have been off. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
33:55 I feel i should point out that the pentecostal movement also started in the usa, is larger, faster growing and more recent then mormonism.
Though perhaps it wasn't mentioned as it would be considered a Christian denomination (though some would also consider mormonism to be a Christian denomination too).
Clicked on this video and immediately got an ad trying to convert me to Mormonism
Oh, yeah. Those are LDS. Just ignore them.
@@caoimhinbenjamin9998 Well, there ya go.
any publicity is good publicity
Come talk to our missionaries
Resistence is futile.
It’s so awesome to see how smooth your productions have gotten over the last couple years
42 arrests? You think we don't like criminal leaders here in the US? Lol
Hey, Mr. Beat,
Active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and viewer of Mr. Beat here. I appreciate your trademark enthusiasm for a somewhat esoteric episode of American history. A few notes on the history you reference in your video:
"Treasure seeking", or treasure hunting, was practiced by Joseph and his family. This sounds super weird to our modern sensibilities, but this wasn't see as an unusual or inappropriate practice by many in their community. Treasure hunting, even with the use of objects like seer stones, was a sort of folksy pastime with roots in Christian tradition. An interesting video on the subject: ruclips.net/video/NpFer0PsqjM/видео.html . Also, while Joseph did market his services as a treasure seeker with the ability to use a seer stone, he and his family earned most of their living from farming and working as hired hands. He is the one who ended the business arrangement made with Josiah Stowell, who believed him.
The quote you show at 12:15 is not actually part of The Book of Mormon that Joseph claimed to translate. It's part of another book of scripture called Doctrine & Covenants (specifically Section 3, verses 12-13) which contains revelations and teachings of Smith and other prophets, separate from The Book of Mormon. Something you left out of your video is the fact that Martin Harris repeatedly requested permission to show their 116 page manuscript to his wife, Lucy. Joseph asked God for permission and was told "no" twice. Joseph asked again and was told "take it if you want", more or less. The South Park episode about this implies that Lucy purposely hid the manuscript to test Joseph's ability as a translator. In reality, nobody ever saw those 116 pages again and Joseph claims that he lost the ability to translate The Book of Mormon for a time as punishment.
There were actually more people that physically witnessed the golden plates than "The Three Witnesses" of Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer. The Three Witnesses actually claimed that they were visited by an angel who showed them the plates. Eight other men, known as "The Eight Witnesses" handled the plates while several other people saw or held the gold plates at different times.
A power struggle ensued after Joseph Smith and his brother, Hyrum, were killed in 1844. Joseph had left no clear indications for a successor. In the aftermath, the two frontrunners were Sydney Rigdon and Brigham Young. Both addressed a large crowd of church members to make their pitch for president of the church. Brigham claimed that Joseph had passed the "keys", or divine authority, to administer and lead the church to himself and his other apostles, not to Sydney. Most followed Brigham and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles west a little later. Brigham became president of the church on December 27, 1847 because he was the senior apostle. This precedent has been followed since, with the senior member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles becoming President of the church upon the death of the previous president.
There are a few things you mention or allude to in the video that I won't engage with for brevity's sake. I know that my religion's history is messy and complicated, yet I find compelling reasons to believe. I can't deny the huge positive impact that my membership in the church has had upon my life and the lives of my family. I truly believe that Jesus is my Savior and Redeemer, that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that The Book of Mormon is divine scripture, and that the true gospel of Jesus Christ is restored to the earth today. I think that there is compelling evidence to show that Joseph Smith was not a conman or fraud, so we'll have to agree to disagree on that. Anyway, always fun to see my religion get some attention from RUclipsrs I watch!
Active member as well 👍🏻
Great comment
@@silverwolf149 nobody ever saw the golden plates. All the witnesses have testified that they didn’t see the plates with their physical eyes.
@@thereadingnook566 Not true. The Three Witnesses, Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer never denied their testimony of seeing and holding the plates. There are many instances when all three defended what they claimed to see. While some have derided Martin Harris for apparently making a comment that he saw the plates with his "spiritual eyes", it is doubtful that he actually said that. Here is a video you can see on the subject: ruclips.net/video/mUv-NxTv3Tc/видео.html
What I find interesting is that each of The Three Witnesses leaves the church over issues with Joseph at some point or another, which Mr. Beat mentions in his video. However, none of them take the opportunity to recant their witness or call the The Book of Mormon a fraud. So if Joseph Smith made the whole thing up, were these three men in on it or not? If they were, why didn't they denounce the lie once they could no longer profit from it? If they were somehow tricked by Smith, why wouldn't he do whatever he needed to appease them to maintain their support? I don't think there's much room for alternative interpretations of the testimony of The Three Witnesses.
@@thereadingnook566 Source? (It doesn't exist, you've been lied too)
@@silverwolf149 I’m a practicing member as well. Thank you for commenting this. I appreciate other saints sticking up for ourselves in kind, respectful ways. Thank you for being a good example and doing the work to write all of this.
The South Park clips got me thinkin it would be interesting to do a similar video about Scientology.
They literally did, look it up, it's great
@@chikkin.salad.sandwich I think he's referring to Mr. Beat making a Scientology-based video.
That's asking for trouble. They love a ruck.
Every time I watch your channel I dream about quitting my stupid tech job and becoming a history teacher. Love you Mr. Beat!
I'm surprised you got through this entire video without mentioning Freemasonry even once. It had a HUGE part to play in Nauvoo. Joseph Smith's last words were the start of a Freemason call for help
Thanks for bringing it up!
@@JayDagny As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I’m also surprised this wasn’t mentioned. It’s something we address, too.
This summary is not the most accurate. It takes liberally from some interpretations, generally the more skeptical versions which sometimes includes things that probably arent or just arent accurate even if you don't believe in the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints (I mean that shouldn't be surprising considering south park is used numerous times to introduce or provide context for events which isnt exactly an unbiased source, they add to the story a lot for the sake of entertainment and satire). The church has published many first and second hand accounts of the foundings of the church including much of Joseph smiths personal journals, letters, and such as well as the first and second hand accounts of many other individuals involved. If this is your first introduction take it with a grain of salt, some details are either lost or omitted as its translated to the screen.
Joseph smiths life and the details thereof are highly controversial, with the church on the one hand, and on the other many folks who wanted to paint it in the worst light possible. For example the oft repeated tale of Smith being a treasure hunter comes from only 2 accounts 1) Joseph was hired by Mr.Stoal who was convinced there was spanish silver, though Joseph disagreed and repeatedly encouraged him to stop searching for it. and 2) The claim his father allegedly took his children on frequent treasure hunts. However a few caveats should be noted 1) This was a common practice in the area at the time, the palmyra herald publishing these words: digging for money hid in the earth is a very common thing and in this state it is even considered as honorable and profitable employment", "One gentleman...digging...ten to twelve years, found a sufficient quantity of money to build him a commodious house., "another...dug up...fifty thousand dollars!". In this context it ought to be no more surprising than the occasional panning for gold that people engaged in after the gold rush. and 2) While the claims are common claiming Joseph smith sr engaged in frequent treasure hunts there is actually very little evidence for this. And second hand accounts suggest the claims were overblown and furthermore there is no evidence at all that Joseph smith sr. claimed he could miraculously find treasure, that is likely a merging of the story between father and son who shared the same name.
If you ever want to take a look into some of these stories to try and find citations for them try www.fairlatterdaysaints.org. It is a sympathetic site to the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, but they do unflinchingly provide citations and first and second hand quotes on these subjects that can be followed up on if you so desire. (If you want even more first hand accounts go to the joseph smith papers where you can find scans of the origonal first hand documents relating to these events such as Joseph smiths personal journals (unedited and presented in their raw format).
Looks like you had the energy and skill much more of what I wanted to write. Thank you!
Actually what he said was very accurate. You just can't handle the truth
@@retrogamerdave362 Even Mr.Beat admits in a comment after he left out or missed some things and engaged in some conjecture. You have every right to draw your own conclusions but its no lie to say that this is not the most accurate portrayal of events given that we have first and second hand accounts directly conflicting with some of the claims. As an example I could say Abraham lincoln was a warmonger who refused the confederates calls for peace, and who lied on his campaign trail. In a way that is all true, but it also totally neglects a mountain of context and skips over many contributing events. It would be no lie to say such a portrayal of abraham lincoln at the least failed to provide some crucial details and context. I'm not saying this video had to kneel down and bear testimony of the restoration, I am saying for a video that claims to only present the raw facts without regard for biases it fails in its mission by providing often only partial pictures of events and situations. that is why I mentioned places people could find first and second hand documents.
Mr. Beat, I'm a big fan of your channel and have learned a lot from you. Unfortunately you seem to really miss the mark on this one. It seems as though you started with the premise that Joseph Smith was a conman, then worked from there. While it's good that we can all see the same history and come to different conclusions, I noticed that you very much seem to be putting a spin on things, which while it's inevitable to some degree, I felt crossed a line.
At best, you butchered some of the facts and let your opinions creep in, and at worst, you intentionally lied and framed things in certain ways to carefully craft a narrative. I sincerely hope it's not the latter.
A few examples:
5:50-6:35 is a classic case of presentism. You talk about treasure hunting in the way it's typically thought of today - something strange and ludicrous, an obvious fraud or scam. You either don't know, or leave out, the fact that treasure hunting was incredibly common in the 1800's, especially among rural, uneducated populations, something that was very true of where the Smith's lived. In this same vein, the way you talk about the Smith's treasure seeking sets up two premises: 1. That Joseph Smith Sr. made a career out of treasure hunting (he didn't) and 2. that Joseph Smith Jr. was in it to intentionally con people for money. That second premise is impossible to know based off the data we have (ESPECIALLY considering your script is incredibly poorly sourced. You shouldn't be putting together a dissertation for a RUclips video, but you state many things as fact, only to have no reference TO ANY KIND OF SOURCE in the script). It's simply you imposing your view of Joseph Smith onto what you have uncovered about his life.
9:25 is a particularly blatant example of you framing an argument to fail. You say "Supposedly, and this is a very big supposedly" before you even say anything about what Joseph Smith said or claimed. I understand that you were in many ways trying to be funny, but you very obviously framed what Joseph Smith claimed to be ludicrous before you state it, thus setting it up to fail before the audience can weigh the merits of the claims.
At 9:53, you say that "but nobody could actually see the gold plates." This was the point that I started to wonder if you had done any real research because this is an incredibly easy claim to prove false. 11 witnesses (split into groups of 3 and 8) signed affidavits stating that THEY HAD SEEN THE GOLDEN PLATES. Given the fact that you mention the 3 witnesses later on in the video, it's clear you know about them, which means that you either had a severe lapse of judgment while putting the video timeline together, or you intentionally claimed that no one had seen the plates to paint the idea that Joseph Smith could have had golden plates as ludicrous. Your errors become even more apparent as those who have spent significant time studying the history of Joseph Smith would know that there were as many as 14 additional witnesses who saw or touched the golden plates to some degree.
33:33 is the most egregious example of your framing and bias. You say: "Joseph Smith was basically a con artist. And anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to whitewash history." This is the most alarming and disturbing thing I've ever heard on your channel. You are better than this. Surely you can take a step back and see how incredibly dangerous that mindset is. The whole reason your channel, VTH, Mr. Terry, and others are popular is greatly in part to the ability to see things from different lenses and perspectives, without claiming to know everything. It is incredibly disappointing to me that you are using the following logical fallacies with that single statement:
False dilemma: setting it up as a binary choice, either Joseph Smith was a conman or if you think differently, you must be a bad faith actor. There can't possibly be any in-between.
Ad-hominin: attacking those who disagree with you rather than actually engaging with any arguments against your narrative.
Poisoning the well: you are preemptively discrediting any arguments anyone has against your narrative by writing it off as white washing history.
Do better Mr. Beat. If you're not going to put out a factual and academically honest video, please don't put it out at all. I'm not one of those people who will unsubscribe over something like this, but I will point out that having videos like this can severely sour a subscribers relationship with your channel. Although I believe you're generally doing the best you can, I can't help but wonder what other videos you've played fast and loose with the facts on, or chosen to promote a narrative over a good faith discussion and/or presentation. I hope I was able to get my point across. I hope that you can learn from this video to do better next time. And I hope that in the future, if you ever put out other similarly flawed videos, subscribers will be able to keep you accountable, as does not seem to be the case with this one, given the demographics on the internet.
MORMON MOMENT MORMON MOMENT
@@jerryduffin1358 well articulated. Bravo to you brother! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Excellent analysis.
That was awesome dude! I hope he reads this comment!
It’s crazy to think that Truman probably had Reorg (RLDS) and LDS friends and neighbors. So quintessentially American in its history - especially due to the fact he was the one who made the most paramount decision to drop Fat man and Little boy.
Holy crap, I had never thought about this.
President Truman announced in a speech at the Community of Christ (aka RLDS) Auditorium June 27 1945 that the USA had signed the United Nations treaty.
I spent 5 years in utah 2003 to 2008 while in the air force, i absolutely loved it there
Yeah, unfortunately BYU fans do exist there. Even outside of Utah County
How many wives did you corral?
Everybody asks Why are Mormons, but not how are Mormons
Ikr 😔
We aren't particularly concerned.
@@realkekz That's a lil mean
@@constantinegarganta8364 Because you actually have to get to know us and our beliefs to answer that question.
I'm doing good! Thanks for asking!
Wow. Rough Stone Rolling would be my recommendation from an LDS perspective on Joseph Smith. Mormon Christianity by Stephen Webb from a non-LDS perspective of Mormonism. Mr Beat said he did a lot of research but it was clearly not enough for him to make the nuances necessary of the history prior to Brigham Young. “Opportunists pursue their own desires, ignoring God’s will. But after examining thousands of his actions, it’s clear to me Joseph Smith was religiously sincere. He believed God called him as a prophet and was speaking through him.” -Don Bradley
Check the video description, he cited Rough Stone Rolling as one of his sources
@ 👍🏼
Not all the triggered mormons in the comments 😂
Mr Beat: "tell me if i missed anything".
The comments: " you missed on everything I just won't say what" 😂
Was Muhammed a con artist? Was Jesus? Was Sitharda Gautma? If you are comfortable calling each of them "con artists" then I'm fine with you calling Joseph Smith one too. If you're not comfortable calling them con artists; then you're showing your personal biases; or your lack of research. if many of his contemporaries claimed he was not a con artist, I dunno how you can definitively claim they were all wrong without using arguments that would also condemn Jesus or Muhammed.
@@senhan2159 lol. lmao even. Both Smith & Muhammed started a religion so they could bone as many women as they wanted (and, in Muhammed's case, children). There's no real comparison.
We have enough evidence to convict Joseph Smith of fraud. We can't say the same of the other figures. Personally I would agree with you but from a historical perspective only one of them can be proven
1. he was a treasure hunter (con artist)
2. the others you talk about are also con artists
@@thepukas Congratulations. You're logically consistent. So long as you're as zealous in calling out Muslims, other Christians, and Buddhists for following con artists as you are about calling out members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; then you can rest easy that you're an equal opportunity troll.
@@thepukas Congratulations, you're logically consistent. I hope that you're as zealous in accusing Buddhists, Muslims, and Christians of being duped by con artists; as you are with members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I thought you were someone who stood up for minorities and respected people’s religious convictions. This video was incredibly distasteful and bigoted (no surprise, referencing godmakers and South Park), making light of other people whilst giving half-truth history. I’m not angry, I’m disappointed. I looked up to this guy as a kid.
If you wouldn’t treat Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or Hindus, why is ok to treat Mormons like this?
If we had more information about the personal lives of their founders then I'm sure he would. Mormons need to get over the fact that their guy is still so fresh from a historical context that we have so much ammunition with which to make completely reasonable assumptions about character. Imagine if someone had this take about any other historical figure. "How dare you treat Alexander Hamilton this way?!? You would never say such things about Honoratus Antoninus or Dhu Shanatir!"
100% agree!!!
As someone who has studied the LDS faith pretty well, I would say a big reason someone like Mr. Beat would have negative opinions would be the many instances where the religion has infringed on minority groups themselves. BYU has funded conversion therapy, Brigham Young and many past apostles/seer prophets have said horrible things about black people, they still claim that native Americans are the descendants of Israelites, where they got their dark skin because they were cursed and bad people. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, amongst others, were known for having many wives, a few of which being underaged and coerced into marriage. And I also know all the counters to them, but they're not very good. I have plenty of Mormon friends, but I do not talk about their religion with them for good reason. I can have a positive opinion of LDS people and have a negative opinion of their religion (not faith) without pushing that negativity onto them.
@ExoticTurtle3 yes, reasonable assumptions. Almost everyone who knew him though he was an amazing, but flawed man. The rest were extremely corrupt individuals who got butt hurt when Joseph defied them.
Calm down, it just another pseduo-Christian cult with beliefs and rules made up by (corrupt) mortal men. No intellectually and morally sound person would be "standing up" for this.
The irony of presenting a religion in this manner while being sponsored by a news source that promotes neutrality 😂
the actual comical part of the video
I’m gonna need those gold plates back. I’ve Got a big spaghetti dinner coming up.
Mr. Beat: Smith, what kind of last name is that?
Me: 😟
Awe man! I mean, you can say the same about Beat. 😅 I wouldn’t mind Smith as a last name.
Smith beats Hammer?
I wrote essays in college about Joseph Smith being a good first example of the United States not following its own principles, a native-born land owning white male did not get a fair trial.
This is true
super true, even more interesting I think is the way that Mormons came to be seen as non-white by American society during the Brigham Young era. The book "Religion of a Different Color" covers this really well.
What about BY fighting to make Utah a slave state? Doesn't that prove him to be a evilly false prophet?
It happens all the time, every 6 months or so someone big on youtube wants to talk about us. But rarely do they ask us what we think about what they have to say in the process.
Maybe if Mormons stopped protecting child predators in the church people would be more open to talking to them
What do you have to offer, after the fact
@moiseulpasmoi I'm assuming that you're asking in good faith. Too often people seem to look at everything that Joseph Smith did as just a weirdo who was somehow able to con a bunch of people into believing what he did. But people lost their lives, homes and families trying to follow what they believed to be true. The world was very different back then.
If you were a member of the church you could legally be murdered in Missouri and that law stayed on the books for nearly a century. It was a crazy time. There were (are) some real racists in the church back then (and now). There were people taking polygamy to incredible extremes.
There are some weird things about us and our history but we're also just kinda normal people who love our families and sincerely believe the church to be true. Too often I see videos and shows that take the time to say look how weird and crazy these guys are, but never take the time to just go talk to one of us to hear our side. Or they only talk to ex-members. We're not hard to find and most of us are used to answering these kinds of questions.
@@moiseulpasmoi I'm under the assumption that you're asking in good faith. People like to point out the comparatively crazy things that happened in the past as the church was getting started. Yeah, there were (are) some real racists in the church that stuck around way too long. Polygamy was taken to crazy extremes by Brigham Young and some apostles that I don't agree with.
It was also legal to murder members in the state of Missouri without repercussion for over century. The only place they could live their lives freely was by walking the hundreds of miles on foot into the middle of nowhere and creating a life there. We also have some cultural things that need improvement.
So yeah, we're bound to sound weird.
But behind all the weirdness of the past there are a lot of normal people living normal lives who love their families and actually fervently believe.
When all you do is look at sources critical to the church or even agnostic you get an incomplete picture of why we exist and it becomes skewed. I dunno, if you were part of a less represented group, maybe you'd get tired of people getting things incorrectly or applying stereotypes to you.
@@jamesesplin8712 Sorry, but having been and still technically am a mormon all my life, I believe it is the other way around. The things the mormons teach is completely biased and only tells a partial story.
It sugar coats the entire thing. Sure there are people who fervently believe, but its all based on lies. There is not only historians that can tell you that, but true scientific evidence that wasn't around 20 years ago even.
The BoM mentions the americas having horses and chariots. Horses didn't even come to the americas until the spanish brought them. DNA evidence proves the ancient americans decended from asians and not hebrews.
Not only that, but there were already people in north america long before the BoM says they were.
I used to be a fervent believer too. Of course you don't want to think your whole life has been a lie.
Joseph Smith stole every thing from the masons. All of the rituals in the temple are in fact an exact copy of masonic rituals. The symbols on the temple are masonic as well. The clothes in the temple down to the way they shake hands.
As a believing member of the LDS faith (who has read a whole lot about Mormon history, particularly Joseph Smith) I'm going to push pretty hard against this idea that the history forces people to believe Joseph Smith was a con artist
A while back Sunstone (a Mormon intelectual think tank) had a symposium with 4 major well respected and highly accomplished Mormon history historians. They all had studied the life of Joseph Smith extensively and all had very different views on him
The first one (I forget his name right now) agreed with your position: Joseph Smith was a no good lying con artist
The second (Dan Vogel) said he thought Joseph Smith was a "pious fraud". He believed that Joseph Smith sincerely believed God had called him to teach people greater importanr truths, and he sincerly wanted to help people in their lives. However, he also lied in order to get people to move to the understanding he thought was the true understanding of God (he says Joseph had a very "ends justify the means" viewpoint)
The third historian (Anne Taves) didn't believe Joseph was a prophet, but she did believe he was sincere about his claims. She explained how he could do this by comparing his view of the gold plates to the Catholic view of transubstantiation
The fourth historian (Don Bradley) believed that Joseph was a true prophet of God. What makes Don even more interesting is that he was a former ex-mormon who previously believed the claims of the first two historians. His study of Mormon history initially made him believe Joseph was a false prophet. However, as he continued to study Mormon history he changed his mind again and decided that he believed Joseph was a true prophet
My point here is that this idea that "there's no way that you can look at the historical information, honestly assess it, and not believe Joseph Smith was a lying con-man" is just not true at all. There are plenty of historians (and just normal people who have read a lot about his life) who have studied Joseph's life extensively who don't come to that conclusion at all. In fact, the biography that's widely regarded to be the best Joseph Smith biography ever written (Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling) was written by a historian who to this day very strongly believes Joseph Smith was a true prophet
(the Sunstone symposium recording is linked below, for anyone who happens to be interested in listening to it)
sunstone.org/four-views-of-joseph-smith-historians-debate-the-prophet-puzzle/
I'm familiar with Vogel but not the others. Vogel's analysis is reasonable. However, if you believe Joseph Smith was a "true prophet," you have automatically lost all credibility in my eyes. I'm a history channel, not a theocracy channel. I listen to historians who do not profit from spreading certain information. Incentives matter.
If you are a believing member, then obviously you are going to get offended when I call your church leader a con artist. I don't expect you to change your mind, but at least be aware that your bias clouds your historical analysis. You cherry pick evidence that fits what you already believe. I consider ALL available evidence.
@iammrbeat I'm not offended. I'm just pushing back on the notion that Joseph Smith was objectively a con artist. When you claim that the only legitimate interpretation is the one you agree with (and everyone who disagrees with you is objectively wrong) you should expect pushback from people who don't agree with you (and again, just because someone provides pushback doesn't mean they're angry or offended
And no one I listed is a Mormon theologian or church leader. They're all widely respected historians (including the believers)
I get that you can't definatively prove religious claims through history. However that's true of any religion. You can't definatively prove the claims that Jesus rose from the dead or Muhammad saw Gabriel
With that being said, while you can't definatively prove religious claims through history, you also often can't definatively prove them false.
And it's really not a big deal if you don't think I'm creditable. I'm just someone who reads Mormon history as a hobby. However, it's going to be a whole lot harder to outright the historical work of highly respected and highly accomplished believing mormon historians such as Don Bradley, Cheryl Bruno, Leonard Arrington, Gerrit Dirkmatt, Juanita Brooks, Patrick Mason, and Richard Bushman (just to name a few). Their work in mornon history is highly scholarly and respected (not just vy believing mormons, BTW). Their work did not get to be as respected as it is because they cherry picked information (they didn't BTW)
Also, you of all people should be aware that historians (who don't cherry pick info) often come to wildly different interpretations based on the same information (which is why I linked the symposium in the link).
Again, i want to emphasize I'm not angry or offended. However, when someone claims the only legitimate perspective out their is the perspective they've come to (and the persspective i have is undeniably and objectively wrong) I'm going to push back (and just because someone provides pushback doesn't mean they're angry or offended)
@@iammrbeatAnd, with all due respect, it doesn't sound like your considering all evidence (or at least the evidence from a variety of perspective). It sounds like you're only interested in reading about Mormonism from critucal sources, and dismissing sources sympathetic to the believing side as "uncreditable" by virtue of them being sympathetic sources in the first place
And if you say that all historical sources from believing Mormon historians is all just trash I'd have to push incredibly hard against that. Again, for example, Joseph Smith: Rough Stone Rolling is widely considered to be the best biography on Joseph Smith ever written in the Mormon history community (including by people who don't believe Joseph Smith was a prophet). The biography was written by Richard Bushman, who (to this day) still believes he was a prophet (and I can promise you, he knows way more about the life of Joseph Smith than either of us do)
@@danielstark8356 I'd point out that Rough stone rolling is among the only books from believing historians that does accurately portray church history. It is also not particularly favorable towards the church in all honesty, but does attempt to give believing members a path (albeit a rather tenuous path) to try and remain faithful in spite of all of hard truths that they are likely hearing about for the first time.
Should also point out that Rough stone rolling heavily leverages the research of Fawn Brodie's book "No man knows my history", written about 40-50 yrs earlier, when the church was much less tolerant of scholarly historical research into it's own history. Unlike Bushman, Brodie didn't sugar coat anything. She told the history as her research dictated it. The church history was heavily correlated at the time and her research angered the leadership (even though it was all true, as later proven by Bushman's work), and Brodie would be ex-communicated for her work, as an apostate. The only reason Bushman was able to publish his work 50 years later was because the world was entering the age of the internet, and the church realized that it's prior strategies of hiding information would no longer work. We then entered the modern era of spinning the information using apologetics. Bushman is really just a church apologist.
@brianrosenlof388 I love Rough Stone Rolling because it tackles all the aspects of church history. It's the believers best f ri end in navigating the life of Joseph Smith because it is completely willing to tackle difficult information
I also think the fact that Bushman so heavily used Brodie as his source proves my point: Bushman and Brodie largely agree on all the hard facts. However, they interpret them very differently (again, proving that this notion that the facts force you into believing Mormonism is a bunch of BS is false)
When critics say that RSR is "sugarcoated" what they really mean is "it's not told from the non believing perslective that I agree with (which is the only correct objective perspective, and everyone who disagrees with me is objectively false/super biased, because if they weren't being super biased they'd obviously agree with me")
And I'd push that Bodie is way more biased than Bushman in her biography. There's no denying that Bushman's beliefs significantly influinced how he interpreted things. However, with the exception of the translation of the BOM (the only part where Bushman goes all out believer) he writes a narative that both believers and non believers can pretty much get behind (he even admitted he purposefully watered down a lot of Joseph's faith promoting parts of his life from the book)
By contrast, Brodie gives this psycho analysis of Joseph Smith. She makes a whole lot of cynical assumptions about what was going on in his mind that go way beyond any evidence she had in regarding those assertions
And again, by scholarly standards (not just believing mormon standards) Rough Stone Rolling is widely considered to be the best biography on Joseph Smith ever written. If you go into a Mormon history conference and ask the historians what the best Joseph Smith biography is at least 90% of them will say RSR (including the non-Mormon ones) It can't just be totally written off by critics by virtue of the fact that it doesn't agree with their perspective
You always make incredible videos, you’re a good ambassador of your country ! Love from France 🇫🇷❤️
America's original jokester Cult.
Stop using the word cult if you wanna call us a cult then you could say that about Catholics and Muslims I can go on all day. Explain that.
@@Isaac-Karbassioon My guy, it is a high-demand religion which strives to structure the way you live your entire life. If you live in a heavily populated mormon area, it's probable that cultural politics (within stakes and wards) play a role in guilting/shaming members from deviating from the church's teachings. The church tries very hard to obfuscate the shady dealings of Joseph Smith, and the organization has perpetuated generations of racism and misogyny over the past two centuries. Here are signs that a person may be in a cult, according to the internet:
Isolation: You are isolated from friends and family, and leaving the group is punished.
Unreasonable fear: You have an unreasonable fear of the outside world, such as conspiracies or persecution.
No tolerance for questions: You are not allowed to ask questions or have critical thoughts.
No financial disclosure: The group does not provide meaningful financial disclosure, such as an audited financial statement.
Extreme devotion: You have extreme devotion to a person, object, or goal.
Lack of diversity: The group enforces a homogeneous culture and discourages dissent.
Implicit rules: There are implicit rules about how members should behave, speak, and dress.
Learned shame: You feel shame and isolation from yourself, and you are constantly trying to do everything right.
Cult of personality: The group creates an idealized image of a leader through flattery and praise.
I can think of specific examples and situations from my decades of experience within the Mormon church and can check every box on this list. If you want to argue other Christian sects are also cults, fine.
I'm Mormon. Lots of videos about us lately.
That South Park joke about Mormons being the right religion is also ironic because Mormons don't really believe in hell.
Interesting. How come?
@Evil_Narwhal In short, Mormons believe that an afterlife of infinite suffering is only possible if it's you punishing yourself, refusing to accept forgiveness. It's not a literal lake of fire and brimstone where Satan tortured you. It's you basking in your own feelings of guilt and refusing to accept God's forgiveness.
@@BradyPostma That's probably the most logical explanation of what "hell" could be since it's literally impossible for anyone within a finite lifespan to do enough evil to earn an eternity of punishment.
@@lukew6725 Thanks! I like it.
Can’t go to hell if you don’t believe in it
Just coming over from JD's holiday get-together with YT historians and rose to the fly of this title like a trout on Henry's Fork. Grew up in SW Idaho in the 60s-70s and have lived in SLC for 45 years. This is a very well done overview. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
I'm not Mormon, but I love them. I live in a town with a significant Mormon population, they're nice people. The history of their religion is pretty crazy, but I don't think about that when I'm interacting with them.
@@sourskittles4187 don’t take mr beats history at face value, he’s about 50% accurate and he twists every detail even though primary sources refute him
Thank you for your comment! As a member, it definitely takes time to understand the history of our church. We are thankful for you time and kindness
@@Civil_Maniacliar
Ah the old Hitler in heaven issue. Ya gotta love it. He received a baptism so maybe you’ll see him there!
@ Mr beast lied about Isaac Morley and Brigham Young thinking they were at the pacific. It was an extremely poorly researched video
There were Eight Witnesses who saw the golden plates in addition to the Three Witnesses. The Eight Witnesses didn't see an angel though. Joseph just showed them and let them look through the plates personally.
yeah they looked at the plates personally with their "spiritual eyes" aka they didnt see them
@matthew_tall Only Martin Harris made that claim, none of the other witnesses did. He said this because he didn't think he would be able to see something so spiritual with his physical eyes.
This is easily debunked with any amount of research. @@matthew_tall
@@arcondpvp The ones who claim to have seen them disagree widely about the sizes and weights of the plates. What does that tell you?
@gunkulator1 not true. While they varied slightly, the general agreement was around 6-8 inches in lengths and height and 40-50 pounds in weight. These are just estimates, it not like the variations were in huge ranges.
27:20 no way that's the pie pizzaria! I can't believe it I've sat in that very seat. I wish I were there to meet you. I hope you enjoyed slc!
I grew up in the church, and was confused as to why, my parents always told me that people who criticized the church were just persecuting them. Now I know what crazy stuff joseph, and others in the church got up to.
Bro this stuff should be taught to you at a young age. As a little un, I was studying this stuff and getting a greater personal knowledge of the truth and history of the church
I used to like your channel because I felt like it represented people fairly and gave accurate history. I think you have totally missed the mark on this video. It is riddled with half truths and lacks nuance and is also very demeaning to others. Imagine portraying Muhammed or Buddha like this…
And before anyone asks, I’m not even Mormon.
Mormon here: I thought he did just fine, though I wish he included some more Dan Vogel material. He said he left a lot of stuff out, but he also referred everyone to American Zion (which I thought was a well balanced book).
There are some spots where he gets things a little bit wrong, so I agree with you about the half truths. For example, a number of people did claim to see the plates, although they were Mormons and had direct or indirect financial incentives to try to boost Smith's credibility, but regardless that was not mentioned here. How is the video demeaning to Mormons though? There is a difference between criticizing a religion and demeaning the people who believe in that religion, and he doesn't even criticize Mormon people at all here. If you believe that a religion is taking people for a ride then the respectful thing to do is to politely but honestly tell the people who believe in that religion what you think, and then respect their freedom to disagree with you and to continue believing in and practicing their religion anyway if that is their decision.
Think about if you had a neighbor who was sending thousands of dollars to a person who claims to be their grandson, and who tells your neighbor a story about how the grandson is in trouble with the mafia or has a giant hospital bill or something, but in reality the caller is not their real grandson and the money is going to a scam artist. Suppose the fake grandson also calls every month and acts kind and loving in a way that your neighbor's real grandson isn't, so that your neighbor becomes intensely emotionally attached to these calls and develops deep denial about the nature of the person on the other end of the line. Is it respectful to just say nothing to avoid offending or upsetting your neighbor in the short-run, or is it more respectful to tell your neighbor they are being taken for a ride so that the scam artist can get their money?
Definitely applies to Muhammed as well. Buddha too if we're talking about versions of Buddhism that see the Buddha as having claimed to have supernatural powers or insights rather than seeing the Buddhas as having claimed to just be a mental health specialist with some helpful meditation techniques, since whether the Buddha is seen as having claimed to be superhuman or as having claimed to just be an ordinary person varies depending on the version of Buddhism. One can be respectful of religious people and still be honest with them that you don't think their religious beliefs are plausible. As Mr. Beat seems to suggest, oftentimes religions are believed in despite not being plausible because they are nonetheless reassuring or anchor communities and social institutions which people find supportive, meaningful and enjoyable to be part of. It's entirely understandable why somebody who is smart and a good person might convince themselves a religion is true in order to not upset their family or miss out on those kinds of social benefits and meaningfully symbolic rituals and practices, and Mormon communities are widely known to be nice, so there's nothing demeaning about suggesting that a lot of people allowed themselves to get taken for a ride in order to not miss out on the many positives of being part of a Mormon community.
@@sketchygetchey8299 Agreed on the point about Vogel. I’m a little familiar with Dan, I don’t think he’d agree with Mr Beat on his claim about Smith being a mere conman. Vogel, iirc believes in the pious fraud/benevolent fraud theory; the idea that Smith thought (or convinced himself) that he was a genuine prophet when he really wasn’t. There’s a difference between that and merely conning people for wives and money-which I don’t think the data can support. I think Joseph was religiously sincere, at the very least. But that’s beside the fact, that’s just my opinion of the history, but Mr Beat makes some serious blunders about quite a few historical details. I shall not enumerate here, but there is a LDS RUclips channel that went over it some, although I think I spotted a few more issues than even they covered.
Muhammad lived in the 600s and Buddha in the 500s. We know far less about them personally than we do about Joseph Smith. People with this complaint never care about it when it's a non-religious person. I don't hear anyone clamoring about the "true-nature" of Alexander Hamilton.
@@ExoticTurtle3 Alexander Hamilton and Joseph Smith play different roles in history-this is a false equivalence. As “historians”, we should attempt to understand the truest nature of whomever we research, albeit that for non-religious leaders it may be less consequential.
It's always so cool seeing places you've been in a video. I loved walking around the capitol in salt lake City, and I loved that monument. What a treat to see it again!
I quote the Church of Jesus Christ's official website here:
"While the term 'Mormon Church' has long been publicly applied to the Church as a nickname, it is not an authorized title, and the Church discourages its use. Thus, please avoid using the abbreviation 'LDS' or the nickname 'Mormon' as substitutes for the name of the Church, as in 'Mormon Church,' 'LDS Church,' or 'Church of the Latter-day Saints.' The term 'Mormonism' is inaccurate and should not be used."
I understand that not using these terms would mean your video would not preform as well, but when you are representing a religion, I think it is only fair to be accurate and respectful.
I understand where you're coming from but you're ignoring the fact that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is not the only branch of Mormonism. As much as they'd like to pretend they are, so calling the religion as a whole "The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints" is as inaccurate as calling all Protestants "Baptist"
@@wasabi_646 Fair point, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'd argue that the existence of small splinter groups should not be justification for publically referring to an entire membership of a church by a name they do not want to be called. Mr. Beat is inaccurate when he says that only some of the members don't like to be called Mormons. From my experience as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ myself, it is a lot more than just some. We wish people would drop the nickname Mormon, but videos like this just make that more difficult.
@@jonahyoung55 Then the church would need to offer a better more inclusive alternative. I agree that we should not call religions and groups by a name they don't like but it's just as bad to completely ignore and exclude other branches who deserve just as much representation.
This recent development of mormons being offended by being called mormons is hilarious. Hinckley called himself mormon and the church officially published content titled “I’m a Mormon” for years until Nelson started to get cranky. If you’re offended by being called a mormon, just remember…Bednar said that it’s your choice to be offended.
You need to go read Benjamin Park’s American Zion to see why historians still refer to it as Mormonism.
Mr. Can’t Beat the titles
As a Latter-Day Saint myself (I'm actually currently a service missionary!) I was pretty nervous going into this video haha but I'm somewhat relieved to say that it's one of the more historically accurate pieces out there.
I'd personally include how the Church's position on slavery (in the Joseph Smith era specifically) influenced their public image - it was a big factor until Brigham Young became the prophet, when the controversial factor in the eyes of the public then became plural marriage.
For anyone curious, I'd definitely recommend the historical series Saints for a detailed timeline of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints's history through the years - it goes over many supposed miraculous events but is also transparent about the uglier moments in its history (ie Mountain Meadows, the priesthood restriction, etc).
As a queer Latter-Day Saint I'm no stranger to the imperfections and struggles within my Church's culture and history, but navigating these types of things has been a long and nuanced journey I've learned to come to terms with.
I'll stop commenting now before I start a second Mormon War in the replies right here haha, so I'll just say, cool vid as always, glad it was somewhat respectful. 👍
@@WiloPolis03 if you actually are currently a missionary, I think you can be forgiven for how stupid your comment is and how wrong you are; after all, you're out there to teach the basics, not to know deeper facts. But you're also not out there to be dicking around on RUclips and not seeking investigators. Maybe you shouldn't be commenting crap like this without approval from your mission president, but I don't suspect you're following the rules much anyway.
@@DannyAGray What about the comment did you disagree with?
Edit- By the way, service mission leaders don't really regulate everything we ever post online, we're just given general guidelines. I'm not currently a proselyting missionary (if I was then yeah, I probably wouldn't be commenting on RUclips videos haha)
@@DannyAGray what the heck are you talking about he literally just said how he respects Mr beat for making the vid. Don’t be a jerk
How does being a queer Mormon work? I say this as a queer Episcopalian.
@@spagootest2185 I imagine it's different for everyone. I know that being who you are isn't a sin, and most importantly, that God loves us & because of that, has a plan prepared for all of us to be as joyful as possible. I've learned to accept that it's okay to have questions without always having all the answers, knowing that they will be answered eventually in one way or another. And I know that even if the world we live in now is imperfect, blessings are promised for everyone who is willing to receive them.
I think far too many people over the past few years have attempted to stir movements against LGBTQ+ individuals simply for... I mean, existing, pretty much. And that's horrifying, and we should all do what we can to promote tolerance and empathy for those with different experiences that others don't understand (which is why it's so critical to ask questions and listen before asserting and judging).
Sorry if this is a little rambly lol, that's basically my take on all of it though
One overlooked part of the success of the church is the implementation of French technology on beet sugar production. America was sorely lacking at the time and it was because of a risky investment into it that the Utah-saints found huge success. The U&I Sugar Company formed and dominated, extending all over the growing west until being broken up as a monopoly in (I believe) the 1960s.
mr beat >>>>> mr beast
Mr. Beat should be king of RUclips.
15 minutes in and I'm enjoying the heck out of this video.
Im sorry man but this video seems less about educating about history and more about pushing your own bias
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches.
They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
totally agree
if he actually wanted to push a bias then this was extremely tame. the mormon church has quite a few scandals that are evidence against the churches legitimacy. he could've talked about them but chose not to. the racism spread by the prophets, the incorrect translations of abrahamic text, the mountain meadow massacre, the kinderhook plates. people were lied to and so many things prove it. very simply this religion was built to scam people and has been very successful up to this day. if you want to believe in it thats fine. as long as you dont give them money. they are a scam, a fake religion built by a con artist.
And by "bias" you mean stating facts that mormons don't like having out in the open.
yeah but it did reveal some pretty uhm weird things about the church i didn't know about before (but i guess most religion starts off weird i mean just look at the history of the catholic church)
Dont know about you guys but The Book of Mormon musical and Fallout's Joshua Graham are still rent free in my head
Not that I dont like seeing Mr. Beat on Mr. Beat's YT Channel, but having other people in the video who seem super knowledgeable and have the same energy is super cool. Normally having someone other than the channel owner take over can break immersion but in this case it pulled me in more!
Most of what you said was factual, but you definitely didn't approach it without bias. Oh well, you're not the first and you won't be the last to malign us.
So you're a Mormon. Well of course you'd not like to hear what I had to say. Stay incurious, though.
@ The only thing I’m really incurious about is your personal opinions on my religion.
@@PeacePetal so you donʼt want to hear the uncomfortable truth about your false prophet?
@@iammrbeat Seriously Mr. Beat. I thought you weren’t like this. I thought you were kinder, and more respectful. I still want to believe that you are, but the more I look at your replies, the more I fear that my own biases have blinded me from unkindness towards other groups, and I’m only now realizing it because now I’m being attacked.
Edit: I don’t think it’s fair to say they weren’t being curious. We’re taught to know our history. To ask questions. To dig into the imperfections. They don’t agree with your conclusions or your interpretations. That doesn’t make them stupid.
Incurious ≠ stupid.
A true discussion of many of the raised points by way of Mormon apologetics would go a long way in maybe bridging some gaps.
However... I've found most Mormons cling hard to the beliefs and won't waver or consider anything different. Most people have a hard time swallowing a talking hat, polygamy, special underwear, no caffeine (ok, it's self control and bodily cleanliness, I get it, but I need some caffeine...), and a lot of other "strange" (not the right word I want, just sleep deprived nightshifter) practices/beliefs.
Also, lots of people get big mad about big money. Build them temples high and holy, excellent use of worldly funds while we can't take of our own neighbors in need.
The beliefs each side holds are quite different and finding middle ground seems implausible.
I for one applaud Mr. Beat for not sugar coating his feeling about it or shying away from doing a video about it.
The video’s title made me cackle
:)
Hey member of the LDS church here. Overall good (mostly) actuate video. The biggest thing you missed is the 8 witnesses of the Book of Mormon all of which saw the golden plates, heard gods voice telling them it was true and testified of seeing them for the rest of their lives many having their final words saying Joseph smith didn’t lie.
I should have brought all of the witnesses up. You're right. Thank you for watching with an open mind.
@@Helloimaperson12345 Thank you for sharing this :) And thank you for your kind responses, and encouraging others of our faith to be kind.
"Critics question whether Martin Harris physically saw the plates. Harris continued to testify to the truth of the Book of Mormon even when he was estranged from the church, at least during the early years of the movement. He "seems to have repeatedly admitted the internal, subjective nature of his visionary experience." Vogel, Early Mormon Documents, 2: 255. The foreman in the Palmyra printing office that produced the first Book of Mormon said that Harris "used to practice a good deal of his characteristic jargon and 'seeing with the spiritual eye,' and the like." Pomeroy Tucker, Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism (New York: D. Appleton and Co., 1867) p. 71 in EMD, 3: 122. John H. Gilbert was the typesetter for most of the book, and he said that he had asked Harris, "Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?" Harris "looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, 'No, I saw them with a spiritual eye.'" John H. Gilbert, "Memorandum," 8 September 1892, in EMD, 2: 548. Two other Palmyra residents said that Harris told them that he had seen the plates with "the eye of faith" or "spiritual eyes." Martin Harris interviews with John A. Clark, 1827 & 1828 in EMD, 2: 270; Jesse Townsend to Phineas Stiles, 24 December 1833, in EMD, 3: 22. In 1838, Harris told an Ohio congregation that "he never saw the plates with his natural eyes, only in vision or imagination." Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 April 1838 in EMD, 2: 291. A neighbor of Harris in Kirtland, Ohio, said that Harris "never claimed to have seen [the plates] with his natural eyes, only spiritual vision." Reuben P. Harmon statement, c. 1885, in EMD, 2: 385."
@ Addressing the "Spiritual Eyes" claim: ruclips.net/video/mUv-NxTv3Tc/видео.htmlsi=l-LRC81tpHcej-Xv
@@Freaky0Nina The claims that Martin Harris only saw the plates with "Spiritual eyes" are laughable. I can hit you right back with just as many quotes that prove he DIDN'T see them with "spiritual eyes". Many of these are in RESPONSE to your earlier quotes. Do better research.
Gentlemen, do you see that hand? Are you sure you see it? Are your eyes playing a trick or something? No. Well, as sure as you see my hand so sure did I see the angel and the plates.
-Martin Harris, quoted in "Statement of William M. Glenn to O. E. Fischbacher," May 30, 1943, Cardston, Alberta, Canada, cited in Deseret News, October 2, 1943.
Well, just as plain as you see that chopping block, I saw the plates; and sooner than I would deny it I would lay my head upon that chopping block and let you chop it off.
-Martin Harris, quoted in "Statement of Comfort Elizabeth Godfrey Flinders to N. B. Lundwall," September 2, 1943, Ogden, Utah, cited in Assorted Gems of Priceless Value.
I know what I know. I have seen what I have seen, and I have heard what I have heard. I have seen the gold plates...An angel appeared to me and others.
-Martin Harris, quoted in "Affidavit of George Godfrey, October 29, 1921, original still held by attesting notary John J. Shumway, Garland, Utah.
0:18 Rainbolt? Where you at? 😂😂😂
Far West, Missouri.
You know when an already established liar and conman in your community says he speaks with God and that God gave him golden plates that he cannot show anyone, then proceeds to seek political power, acquire money and other men's wives by the dozen, you might be in a Cult.
Thanks for the video, needed some relief today. Living here for 48 years and now I'm ruined for life elsewhere. Half of my wives enjoyed this as well so you have dozens of new subscribers. May all your wives bare many children for you. Cheers!
I'm noticing that the only comments that find this video "balanced" or "accurate" are "ex-mormons".
He had all of his sources in the description man, the only evidence the people that say it's inaccurate have is what they're church told them without a citation. Empirical evidence is balanced.
Me too. That tells you quite a bit, doesn't it?
@@iammrbeat it tells me that the content is pandering to people with negative feelings toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There are many many credible, empirical sources that shine light on the other side of this story, none of which were mentioned.
@@porterabplanalp8454 give some, I'll see how accurate they are.
alright buddy, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better
My father, who was an Elder in the church, often asked the same question
So is he not with the church anymore?
@iammrbeat he passed, unfortunately.
Great vid as always, Mr. Beat 👌
I'm waiting for the tariff video to drop. We know you're itching to make it
lol how did you guess?
I'll give LDS credit, they don't doggedly stick to a dogma when they know the rest of the country will hate them for it, they tried that in the past and it got them occupied by the US military for like a decade where their faith had to live in hiding. If they see which way the wind is blowing, they have a revelation and tell the flock that you should probably stop doing the thing people don't like anymore.
Non-religious viewer here; This video just felt mean-spirited. I feel like there was a large lack of context, and your bias against the churches' validity was apparent. Not every video is going to be great, I understand, but I hope the next one is better than this.
@@soloRanger537 not just mean but outright poorly researched. He has a serious axe to grind and there was plenty of half truths or straight up lies throughout
@@soloRanger537 Thanks for saying something. I think it's important all of us humans stick up for each other no matter how beliefs differ ❤️
Being honest may feel like he is being “mean-spirited”. When you look at the objective facts about Joseph Smith’s life and have sympathy for how many followers he tricked it is justified.
Here are a couple core (objective) facts about Joseph Smith- tell me if you think this person is good or bad
-Had 40 wives, many of which he kept secret from his first wife Emma.
-Had a 6 wives under the age of 18.
-Arrested 42 times in his lifetime.
-Before the church was popularized, both Joseph and his dad were literal “treasure hunter” scammers that never had a case of finding ANY treasure.
If you learned about someone with this background do you honestly think they were a good person and God’s representative?
latter-day saints are not officially classified as a religion. mostly because it’s origins are so well documented. but it’s ostensibly a cult
@@SilentInsanity369 what you said makes zero sense. The whole cult discussion is old news, define cult for me because I’d bet you’d have trouble capturing the LDS church without looping in all religion
Imagine if Mr. Beat used this tone when talking about Islam or Judaism or any other religion for that matter. The comment section would eat him alive
Or lgbt religion
@@hunterphilbrick7649
Well! Xochipilli, the Aztec Butterfly God and patron protector of homosexuality, is a cool dude. The guy will ride and die with Quetzalcoatl even he starves out of his blood fuel (Quetzalcoatl and his Mesoamerican counterparts such as Kukulkan, Olmec Stone Dragon, Fire Serpent of San Juan Mogote, etc; hate human sacrifices).
That god has such charisma and it’s no wonder he has a sect following even from cis-straight people.
@@hunterphilbrick7649 LGBT... Religion? Okay so you just don't know the definition of what a religion is lol
@@hunterphilbrick7649 regurgitating Fox News BS. Nice. Never mind the fact that what you just said objectively makes zero sense. A classic “I have never had a nuanced thought in my life” moment.
@@mhmm4303 oh ok. I’ll switch to a different network. Who do you suggest? Thanks
Here in Argentina, Mormon churches stand out for looking pristine and tidy even when built in the most miserable neighborhoods. Always wondered where they got all that funding...
@@tadeojablonski105 10% thiting from all earnings is required for members to be in good standing. More donations are encouraged. Vast majority of its clergy is lay and unpaid. Add to that that the Church heavily encourages and helps its members to get good education and become leaders and they get a LOT of money with not much relative spending.
Tithing
@@totalhufflepuff203And the culture of cleanliness.
@@totalhufflepuff203never got why god wanted my money, doesnt he have a job?
From mormon members who pax 10% of their wages yearly. In the mormon church, money and materialism is very important in their church. My perspective is faith and moral ethics is more important than money on religion.
It is safe to say that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is only here today because it is lead by Jesus Christ
So, the Jehovah's Witness, Seventh Day Adventists, and Christian Science groups are still around and they believe in Christ and aren't Mormon, and all came about around the same time period. The argument doesn't work.
There are tons of other stupid religious that are still around, that doesn't make their beliefs true.
it could be here today for other reasons. Why does Jesus need to be the reason?
I hope the reason isn't "because it is amazing it is from jesus."
True!!! 100%
judaism has been around for thousands of years. jewish people dont even believe jesus was the messiah, and yet it is still around. why is mormonism special, its only existed for 200 years? if someone asked me based on just this information which church was more likely to be correct i would say the older one.
I really enjoy your videos. I have watched most of them. It’s really sad that you twice have chosen to assume the worst methods and motivations from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. There are critics of these men and defenders, but you only give credit to the critics.
Well, there's really only two or three options for JS, huh? Either he was telling the truth, he was a con man, or he was literally insane. Given how he interacted with others, it's safe to say he wasn't insane, so that brings it down to con-man or prophet. If you think someone is a con-man, you can't exactly think highly of their methods/motivations
Looking through all of the testimonies of people who knew him closely along with his own journal entries, he seems to clearly have believed what he was claiming. I haven’t seen any evidence that he believed he was pulling a con.
because joseph smith doesn’t deserve a good legacy. the critics are right about him. and i hope more people recover from this cult so his name will be forgotten sooner.
Dang I was hoping this would at least be accurate. You know the preface of the Book of Mormon has 8 witness plus the three on literally page one….. I always loose trust with RUclipsrs when I see how little they actually learn about subjects they present
Yea i was hoping to hear about mormons disobeying the law of separation of church and state when they used firing squads as ritual blood atonement.
Makes you rethink other research these RUclipsrs present.
100%
Would you be this upset if he was discussing a different cult (e.g. Heaven's Gate) and got something slightly wrong but the bulk of it correct?
I’ve been an exmo for 8 years, there is a lot wrong not just one detail
After seeing this I now call into question all of your videos for their Historical accuracy. Sadly looks like you are just out for popularity and not Historical accuracy.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches.
They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
Not one point of this video is inaccurate, you were just mad that he is not upholding the lies that your church has told you. Your church can’t even stay consistent with its lives, it consistently contradicts itself. Inconsistency is the most consistent part about the LDS church, other than it’s abuse and bigotry.
yes!
@@trentitybrehm5105 You're just spitballing with irrelevant copy-and-paste lol, try actually responding to the claims being made
It reminds me of the Wizard of Oz how this guy is telling everyone he can read something that no one else could possibly understand
“Why are Mormons?”
Then why are Americans?, why are Canadians?, Why are the Japanese?, why are Germans?, why are Mexicans?, why are Catholics?, why are Buddhists?, why are Muslims?
I demand answers Mr. Beat.
Oh you'll get your answers alright. I won't stop until answer every question out there.
@iammrbeat Thank you Mr. Beat.
Anyway, the history of Mormons is pretty fascinating so I can’t wait to hear what you have to say in this video.
Snarky, disrespectful, poorly researched, religious bigotry. Which is especially sad considering your target audience of impressionable jr. High kids. You’re a teacher?? The amount of good the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Saints does through out the world is undeniable. This was as piss poor a summary of early LDS history as I’ve ever heard. Are you a comedian or educator?
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches.
They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus bein g worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@ this copy and paste is complete evangelical anti Mormon BS. If you think your so called evidence for biblical claims are scientifically verifiable your head is up your well let’s say in the sand. There is absolutely zero evidence of the resurrection of Jesus. I believe he was but that is a spiritual matter. Yes hundreds of years after Jesus is reported to have lived many copies of the biblical text were made. But to consider this as evidence is silly and even if there were original copies of the biblical text you must trust that what they are saying actually happened. People can write or say whatever they want doesn’t prove anything. The truth claims of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have much more authentic first hand witnesses of miracles and angelic visitations. There are first hand witnesses to the gold plates that contained the book of Mormon. Matters of faith are verified by the Holy Spirit.
You sound biased
Did you miss the fact he was talking about the Mormons? There are few pseudo-religious groups more worthy of snark, and he's doing the world a favor if he really is influencing high school kids.
mormons are always pissed when presented with truth. I wonder why? What did bednar say about being offended?
Mr Beat, this seems a little one-sided. Your stuff is usually a little more nuanced. Kind of surprised you didn’t interview any LDS scholars about their faith.
I am an ex LDS. I like his style of work! The church is 🗑️ A hoax
The topic is literally a pseudo-Christian cult, you wouldn't be getting your panties in a knot if he was talking about e.g. Scientology.
He considers anyone who believes in the LDS faith to lack credibility. Like how some members of the faith consider those outside of the faith to lack any credibility.
A curious double standard for sure.
@jacksonalder9610 A cult is different to mainstream religion, it's entirely fair to treat them differently.
@@ferrumignis OK tell me the difference between a cult and a religion. I really want to know because I am a member if you consider our religion a cult then Catholics are in a cult idiot.
Mr. Beat,
I am disappointed in you. You let your bias color your work and thus have misrepresented me and my religion. You clearly do not understand the history, context, and culture of the Latter-day Saints, and are leading people who know little to nothing about us to hold the same misconceptions that you do. I love seeing videos made about my faith, but when they are so obviously poorly researched and so clearly filled with false or misguided narratives, it would be better for you not to have made the video.
You should feel ashamed in your total lack of historiography and your failure as an educator to actually educate those you teach on RUclips. You may have some good reason to dislike Latter-day Saints and our faith, but what comes across here is pure bias. You know better than to make such a bad video! Even if you wanted to make a video that claims that my religion is false, you could at least get the history right.
Do better. Be better. You have a great platform and voice, and with great power comes a great responsibility to use your communication and education skills for good, not to spread misinformation and disinformation on the internet.
Best of luck
Mr. Beat is a bigot who would be afraid to do this on Jews or Muslims.
In Alma 7:10 (the Book of Mormon), they say Jesus would be born in Jerusalem.
Micha 5:2 (from the Old Testament) Messiah is prophecied to be born in Bethlehem. We have copies of this document from the Dead Sea Scrolls dating to a century or two before Christ.
Bethlehem is a different city than Jerusalem. Jesus was born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1)
1 Nephi 18:25, 2 Nephi 12:7, Mosiah 9:9, and Ether 9:19 discribes plants and animals being in the Americas that we know were no here until they were brought by colonizers.
1 Nephi 19, 1 Nephi 18:25 discusses there being metal working like swords, armor, and coins when there is no evidence anywhere in the Americas of any metal work being done or ever found.
Alma 11 talks about metal coins being used as currency when there are no metal coins to be found anywhere in the Americas until colonialism.
Mormon 8:2 and Ether 15 discuss battles with hundreds of thousands to millions of people, using armor and metals, with chariots, and there is no evidence of any such battles taking place. Even with small battles, there is always massive amounts of evidence that it happened from human remains, armor, arrowheads, swords, ect. and we find none of that for these battles.
Jesus created all things, including Lucifer (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:8-12) Mormons believe that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, both created by God the Father. This goes against the Trinity and what the Bible teaches.
They believe in an infinite regression of gods who were once men who became gods by their good works who then started their own planet with people who can become their own gods. The only God is Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, who are eternally God together.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.
Isaiah 44:6
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.
They also believe in the Book of Mormon because they feel like it's true, instead of looking objectivly at the evidence, like what convinces me that the Bible and Jesus are true.
Proverbs 28:26
He who trusts in his own heart is a fool,
But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.
Jeramiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianity are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshiped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
The Book of Mormon has none of this.
@trentitybrehm5105 There are answers to all of your opposing views and interpretations of scripture. If you want to learn about them, you can go to an apologist such as those at FAIR Mormon. However, my point in commenting was not to make a scriptural case for my faith that would satisfy you personally. My point was to get across to Mr. Beat that he very clearly misrepresented the history, belief, and practices of my religion with obviously bad intentions.
@@trentitybrehm5105 The fact that you are repeating long debunked criticisms demonstrates that you are not familiar at all with these topics.
@@SacaPuuntas Bish, I’ll take you on. But, you’re too much of a bigot c.u.c.k. admit you’re wrong.
Been looking forward to this video!
Thanks for watching!
I literally saw Mr. Terry filming while I was working, locating the utilities that feed into the temple lol. Fun fact regarding the coordinate system all being anchored to one point: Surveyors STILL use that system in areas of northern Utah that are old enough for it to have been used in the original planning of the city, and It breaks down all the way to individual feet.
The common local mythology is that if the USA invaded and destroyed the city, you'd be able to reconstruct it entirely based off that one reference point.
I've read a bit more on this, and it turns out it is significantly worse than I thought. Below is my original comment I wrote while I was happy to have a video that isn't a total lie. There are also a lot of half truths.
As a "Mormon", I am surprised by the respect and accuracy of this video, I do have some qualms (in loosely chronological order):
1. Describing JS Sr. as a wizard and as someone who didn't care about actually being accurate in his perdictions is insinuating that he was a major conman, while you could say that, I think that doesn't take into account just how common supposed seers and such were in those days in that area.
2. With the stuff like the Garden of Eden being in Daviess County, that wasn't official revelation. There is an old joke that I like: (though it is slightly wrong regarding Catholics) Catholic doctrine is that the pope is infallible, but they don’t believe it; Mormon doctrine is that the prophet is fallible, but they don’t believe it. Many people have some random beliefs that one prophet mentioned one time about something or the other (Bigfoot, for example, and also that Harris quote).
3. There is an explanation for why JS didn't retranslate the plate portion. That section talks about a young man going out into the wilderness with his family and eventually cross to the Americas. The 144 pages were from the father's perspective, and supposedly the son was commanded to also write down what happened because God knew the earlier pages would be lost and that Joseph Smith needed to learn that his actions have consequences. (God only let Smith give away the writing after he asked 3 times and God said no, before God finally relented)
4. With the Safety Society, Smith ended up feeling so guilty about losing people's money after the market crashed that he was paying people back until he died. (You can argue this was just good for his image, but I think he could have pulled it off either way and was being genuine)
5. In Nauvoo, doctrine didn't change, it just went from being the default for the society to not being accepted by Mormons. For example, there was never a no plural marriage doctrine that was overturned, there was just a command to practice it, and people weren't before because monogamy was the norm.
6. The 14 year old wife wasn't really a wife as you would think, it is a marriage for after this life. The girl was never with Joseph Smith alone and it was really just to tie two influential families in the early Mormonism movement together.
7. People didn't go along with Brigham Young, there was a vote and Young was supposedly transfigured to look like Joseph Smith in a vision many people received.
8. Those secret polygamists who got new wives after the official stopping of the practice got (and still to get) excommunicated.
9. While I would argue that JS was not a con artist (I am a member, afterall), you do need to do a lot of historical work to actually puzzle out whether or not you consider him a conman. What I would say is the truth is pretty hard to find, and just about everyone was biased in some way, whether for or against him. From my readings of his journal and accounts of him, I don't think he did or would have been able to successfully make up a whole new theology, book of scripture, and a church with much opposition, even from people who originally were trusted. (That's one of the biggest things for me, the 3 witnesses and many other informal psudo-witnesses never denied the Book of Mormon and such, even after many left the church after problems with JS, even on their deathbeds.)
All in all, I appreciate the video, I am really nitpicking with my above problems. Thank you for reading through this and for making accurate content about something I care so deeply about. Despite the anti-Mormon slant, I will probably recommend this video to friends who ask me about the history of my religion.
P. S. I am sure there are other nits to pick, especially regarding informal witnesses and stuff, but I am in no position to comment on any of that. You did a pretty stellar job compared to what I'm used to and I honestly don't care too much after you already covered the history well and even went on-site to many things; your focus is history and you did a great job covering the history.
@@I_Love_Learning In regards to #6, you don’t really believe that do you?
@@I_Love_Learning Also #8 isn’t true either, I recommend looking into post manifesto polygamy. It was supported secretly by the Church for years after 1890. It wasn’t until the 1910’s during the Reed-Smoot hearings that they finally stopped secretly sanctioning them
So just because something was common at the time doesn't make it any less of a con. The spiritualism movement was very popular in the late 1800s and they were all con artists...very good ones at that. People who sell snake oil and call themselves doctors are still con artists, period. I agree though that there is a lot of bias. I look to science to make up for the bias in history. I know both sides.
"Insinuating" Joseph Smith was a major con man? Let me correct you there. Fact: Joseph Smith was a major con man. I mean, buddy, there's simply no doubt about it. Good grief.
Also a member but I absolutely wouldn't recommend this video to anybody who wants to know more about our faith. It made light of and misrepresented pretty much everything. I'm very disappointed in Mr. Beat. He obviously has a chip on his shoulder about it all.
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Book of Mormon has changed my life and given me purpose in life and faith in Jesus Christ. I encourage anyone who really wants to learn for themselves to read it prayerfully and seek sincere sources rather than just trusting a guy with a RUclips channel whose only apparent credentials are that he’s interested in history.
Facts don’t care about your feelings. Joseph smith was a horrible person
@@Fortnite87463 ...now do the Prophet Muhammaed you cowardly white cuck
@ my friend, I’d guess that I have studied the facts more than someone who goes by the online name of ‘fortnite87463’. I’ve been studying his life and his works my whole life. Joseph Smith was an honorable person and even more than that he was a prophet of God. Put away your controller for a while and pick up the Book of Mormon. It might change your life
The Book of Mormon has given a greater understanding of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
@@Fortnite87463 and may his name be forgotten
Yikes, this is a new low. You treat Trump supporters with more respect than this. Maybe try talking to members of the group you are going to research next time 🙄
Cry more cultist
cope
14:13 Let's also not forget that the Book of Mormon literally teaches that the Native Americans are descendants of an ancient tribe of Israelites who migrated to the Americas on boats thousands of years ago. In other words, Mormon/LDS theology states that Native Americans are ancestrally Jewish.
Let's also not forget how the Native Americans are characterized as good or evil by their skin tone. Yeah, the Book of Mormon is racist af 🙄
Not at all
@@IowanMatthew683 The official position of the Church is that the peoples described in the Book of Mormon are among the ancestors of the indigenous peoples of the Americas. Based on the distances described in the text, the events likely occurred within a relatively small geographical region, comparable in size to modern-day Switzerland. Alternative interpretations often rely on overly simplistic or speculative assumptions. It is also acknowledged by the church that other groups of people inhabited the Americas during that period.
@@NoteworthyAnalysis Lol, okay buddy. Before 2007, most copies of the Book of Mormon literally had as their preface "After thousands of years, all were destroyed except for the Lamanites [a rogue tribe of Israelite descendants in the Americas], and they are are the principal ancestors of American Indians."
@@IowanMatthew683 So what? The introduction was added later and is not considered part of the scripture itself. Many Bibles also include introductory texts that reflect editorial interpretations or biases. Why should this be significant? It’s a non-issue.
As a mormon and follower of your chanel. Thanks Mr. Beat
Mr. Beat, for someone who considers Mormons some of the genuinely nicest people you know, you really don’t seem to think very highly of them at all.
I was frankly shocked by the level of disrespect and contempt displayed in this video. You don’t have to agree with their beliefs at all. But to basically call them all idiots and dupes without even talking to them about their beliefs in your video comes across as really smug and condescending.
I’ve been a fan of yours for a while and honestly, I am disappointed. I guess I just expected more from you.
The worst part though, is that I suspect those Latter-day Saint friends of yours are still going to be kind and respectful to you even after you just took a huge, very public dump on them and their beliefs.
You don’t need to sugarcoat your opinions, but I still think you owe them an apology.
You can’t deny the objective truth mormonism is based on lies from an utterly horrible and evil person
@@Fortnite87463Except what you said is subjective not objective.
I would recommend this video from a member of the Church, it is pretty respectful to Mr. Beat, dispite his tone in this video:
ruclips.net/video/zG11nRuKJgE/видео.htmlsi=a4v0Y6B2aG2Y1gMu
@@spideyN8R I assume this response was meant for a different commenter?
@@The_Kingmaker I am just saying this is an example of what you said.
Joseph Smith was not a con artist, and anyone who says otherwise is trying to be an edgelord youtuber.
He admitted to being a conman. And his Book of Mormon is an obvious con. And the Mormon church admits tyat the pogp is a con because it’s just so obvious. They brought the paper that Joseph claimed was written “by the hand of Abraham upon the papyrus” to Egyptologists and Egyptologists said that it was just a regular pagan Egyptian funerary text. Joseph was a very very abusive person. Sorry that you got wrapped up with his con😕
Are you Mormon?
Hes not a con artist he just lied and started a dangerous cult, he also was done for fraud. Not a con artist…. Oh wait thats a con artist
does the preacher guy at 1:22 know what the mormons said originally?
Wow, were you trying to make a video filled with half-truths and distortions? What other subjects have you covered that are filled with bad research and bias points of view? I didn’t realize mocking people’s religious beliefs in the name of entertainment was part of a history teacher’s job. Real academic research has been done on the rise of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Joseph Smith yet you didn’t include any of that in your story. I realize this is “just a You Tube video” but I would try and verify the truthfulness of your content before you post it.
He also didnt include the part where they got in legal trouble for mixing capitol punishment with their belief in blood atonement a clear violation of the separation of church and state.
@@gdigital13apparently you missed my focus on true verified by first hand sources not half-truths from my cousin’s neighbor’s uncle.
@@heathermorris893 its factual history you can look it up online. Just used “mormons in utah introuble for blood atonement” and found various instances of mormons violating the separation of church and state on law websites.
@@heathermorris893 lets also not forget how joseph smith distorted the Truth when he said his followers could “become like gods”. Completely antithetical to anything our Lord Jesus Christ ever taught
In 1 John 3:2 (NIV) we are taught “Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall BE LIKE HIM, for we shall see him as he is.” If we are children of God and can become like Him, doesn’t that mean we could become a God? John says it hasn’t been revealed yet meaning that it will be revealed in the future. Thus requiring additional revelation from God which is what Joseph Smith received.