You are correct. The meaning of a cord of wood is, the dimensions of stacked wood that equals 128 cu ft. Look it up on line . People cut their fire wood at different lengths, 16", 18", 24"... It's the total cubic foot measurement not the dimensions of the pile that makes a cord of wood.
The 4x4x8 cord of wood came from how it was measured in 1610. It was measured with an 8 foot cord of rope. The first measurement was over the top and down the side. The second measurement was the length.
I applaud your cordial attempt to open up a civil discord on this subject. Accordingly I have recorded my approval by liking, commenting and subscribing.
What I like about your channel is that you provide what has basically become obsolete in todays world…… common sense! At the present rate common sense will be nonexistent in a generation or two……
Common sense is not obsolete……it’s endangered. Obsolete doesn’t mean what you think it does, it would seem. Common sense is most definitely still useful and applicable in today’s world, meaning it’s not obsolete at all.
My father and I cut firewood at the ranch in Montana in the winter time for forty years, pine and fir that we sold by the cord (128 cubic feet). Same with my uncle, on the next ranch, up the creek. Once in a great while, someone would argue that the 3/4 ton truck with extra high sides that we used to deliver wood couldn't possibly hole a cord of firewood. It happened. My response: "If you don't want it, I've got two other families waiting on wood today, and I'll be happy to move on down the road." I never had to just drive off.
On the other hand, I've seen too many jerks pull up in a 1/2 ton with no racks and claiming their load was a cord. Selling short cords and passing them as cords is illegal in many places, and I've turned cons in for it. One tried to claim it was just a pile, thrown out of the back of his pickup.
Delivered fire wood when I was a kid. We always stacked the splits in the dump truck so as to not have any issues upon delivery. One delivery ordered 10 cord so we brought out the small and big dump trucks. First load was the small truck and he thanked us for the delivery handing us the check. I told him I’ll be right back with his next load=big truck. He was flabbergasted! For years He had been buying firewood from another supplier not knowing what 10 cord actually was. So he hired us to stack what fit in his shed and bring some pallets and tarp to dry store the rest.
I learned how to calculate the 'stacked cordwood' volume of a tree, a few years ago. Measure the volume of a firewood tree (in cubic feet) and multiply by 1.25 to get the predicted volume of the split and stacked wood. Divide by 128 and you have come up with the volume in cords. This allows for the fact that some of your stack is air spaces.
I'm sure I could Google it but I figured I would ask what measurements do I need to find out the volume of a standing firewood tree? Of course it would be an estimate but it would be nice to be able to get a base measurement and estimate a length and come up with a rough amount
I have pondered... I hope you will too. A cord is a cord. "They are right' 4X4X8 but they dont even know why..... The measure of a cord of wood comes from steam boat days when boilers took 4 foot long pieces of wood. ANYONE could measure a single four foot piece of wood and from that single piece then measure twice its length thus measuring 4 by 4 by 8. When the wood was picked up it was quickly and easily measured with the very wood that was laying there. You left the stack of wood any where it could be seen from the river and the boats would stop, pick it up and leave you the money... the steam boats came on schedules give or take and thus you knew about when to look for your money. They burned more wood than a forest fire so the demand was endless. This was common practice on the Colombia and the Kootenay rivers Worth noting the wood had to be debarked. It was common to pound the length of a green tree with a sledge hammer to looses the bark so it could be stripped. A good job for any man that was made of mostly metal. Alas you are right also... 4 by 4 by 8 measure 128 cu feet of wood.. but no steam boat is going to buy it as it is NOT A CORD. Read what I wrote with the same attitude you put in your video and you should be amused... education can be fun.
Ha, ha, ha, ha. Great video. Thank you. A cord of wood is like a yard of concrete. 1 yd of concrete = 27 CF, it doesn’t matter if it’s 3x3x3’ or 243 SF 4” thick.
I'm so glad that you clarified about how much firewood that it takes to make a cord. 128 cubic ft. is the magic number I understand now. So no matter how I "stack "it, my measurements should come out to 128 cubic ft. I never new this because people always have their own ideas about this. Yours is substantially based upon a number which is 128 cubic ft. Thanks for sharing!
@@SteveLeingang-q3o fairly tightly stacked. My full-sized 88 GMC Sierra will hold a half-cord stacked, but only about a face-cord loosely tossed and slightly rounded.
Of course its 128 cu ft, when stacked. We used to say no matter how you stacked it. So the guy shows in his truck, dumps the wood, and you stack it, normally around here, if you thought it shy, you called them back and they were nice enough to bring a little more. And they wanted your business.
If people are stubborn about a cord being 4x4x8 is simply because they can't abstract them away from that formula and they clearly struggle with math. They don't care about the real volume, only about the form.
From what I understand it was 4’ unsplit lengths 4’ high and 8’ long. That volume is way more wood if you split it. It was an easy way to measure your woodcutters piecework. It is a lot easier to hand load 4’ lengths on a sled or cart between stakes to get them to the yard
Hey Mr Wilson Great video. Made me chuckle. lol like 3 sticks of wood end to end 16+16+16 = lol. However, I do like the way its stacked. 6 rows 6 cord. Easy peazy
I'm 68 years old and I didn't know this. I was always told 4 4 8. Thanks for teaching me the right way. Not that I'm going to cut any more wood. 😂 I enjoy learning.
All official standards define a cord of wood as being 128 cubic feet, not necessarily 4'x4'x8'. I cut firewood for at least 20 years, and I gained most of my knowledge from a old firewood cutter who did it commercially for 60+ years. He never sold a "cord" of firewood. He said that was an easy way to get into legal problems with the same morons you describe. He sold wood by the "LOAD". He put a price on the LOAD and you could take it or leave it! I knew him well and I doubt anyone ever questioned his integrity. He had looked down the barrel of a gun at many people, and had pulled the trigger on a few. He was a true pioneer by every sense of the word. Ironically he died from a fall in his shower when he was 90.
You are correct , true math is incapable of lying. Some folks don't comprehend math to the 3rd degree. Second degree represents AREA, third degree represents CUBIC AREA. To say a cord of wood not stacked 4x4x8 is not a cord is like saying four quarts of water isn't the equivalent of a gallon.
I was always told that a gap in the pile could be big enough for a rabbit to go through as long as the fox couldn't go through after him. But those are East coast rules, maybe things are different on the West coast.🙂
Here on the West coast, I was always told to make gaps big enough for a mouse to go through, but small enough that a cat can't follow.....pretty close to East coast rules...
@@BrettCraft I appreciate your comment. I retired a few years ago, and sold my businesses. Felling trees is a young man's game, and not some old guy's with multiple back injuries. I recently moved into the mountains of Washington state. I've been noticing trees that are threatening my cabin, and access road. Who knows? Maybe I'll get out the 044 or the 395 and try to turn back the clock....
I like to go to extremes sometimes for the sake of clarity, just to get someone to understand the basis of the idea. For example, you could have 128 perfect 1 foot by 1 foot by 1 foot cubes of wood, stacked up on top of each other or lined up in a single row and it's still a cord. Cord is a standard volumetric measurement, plain and simple. No matter what shape your pile is.
Dad started using wood instead of diesel in 1976. Diesel went UP TO 9 CENTS a gallon and he was mad enough to yank the furnace out and build a big wood stove. We hauled wood in the 69 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4. We had cab high side racks and went all the way to the back of the 8 foot bed, even leaving tailgate open sometimes. The first couple rear rims that literally split open from the weight should have been a wakeup call. 700-16 on old narrow car rims from the 40's failed often. Dad was one to get the most of everything. He never measured by the cord, but the "pickup load". We learned a lot from him except the hearing difference between WHOA and GO when skidding tamarack logs.
I would assume that when Ulysses Grant made a living selling firewood before entering politics and becoming president, a wagon load of firewood was roughly 4x4x8. Depending on the size of the wagon of course. I have great respect for the old timers with their "misery whips, buck saw and axes. I try to pay homage to these great woodsmen and split everything with a maul and axe. I love the work and exercise.
This corresponds very well to the volume of a cord of wood in France, mesured by the "stère" or one cubic meter of split wood, usally cut into 50 cm lengths, with the cord amount usually coming out to 3 and 1/3 stères. Mr.Wilson's stack comes out to almost 3 and 1/2 stères, so that's a generous cord going by French standards!
Buying firewood was sometimes the only option. And I didn't think I was getting my money worth. I had heard your formula for a cord. But I had been told by an older builder a cord was actually 48" wide and 52" tall by eight feet. Of course you could calculate it from different dimensions.
As my gramps used to say, "Some people would complain if you hanged them with a new rope." (the reason being that new rope has more stretch.) 😅 As to the measurement of a cord, I never cared a lick. The woodshed just had to be filled and it always seemed endless when I was a kid, because I was always appointed the one to stack the wood and fill it. It had to be tight too, so tight a mouse couldn't crawl through it, or I was made to do it over. If you decide to make a pig trebuchet, let me know, I'd love to see pigs fly. 😅
@@robertlivingston1634Yes, well, actually, a face cord can be any length IF pre-arranged by the customer, in my opinion. A 12" face would be 32 cu. ft., but still a face. If length is NOT mentioned, he should expect to get 42-2/3 cu. ft. in some form or other.
2:40 this guy sounds like the guy who was adamant that if a screw conveyor was conveying in the wrong direction, if you end for ended it it it would convey in the correct direction. This was a situation where the screw conveyor was powered by a tractor.
After being in the cedar shake bolts for shakes on public roofs I got very good at scaling how many feet in a stack of wood. Using the number eight for my denominator, as in eight times one is .... lets do it in numbers 8 X 1= .08, 8x2=.16, 8x3=.24 and so on. as in say 8x6=.48 or one half of a foot.... so in first example I rounded up .24 to .25, and the second half of this 8x6= .50. You can do this with every inch as in 8x11= .88 in the third quarter of four quarters of a foot. I hope you take the time to do what I showed you here. Take 8x9= .72, round it up three points on it to make it .75 or three quarters of a foot... See when guys are getting paid for how much they produce, they can't wait till they have a full cord of cedar blocks to get paid. Using this formula is making it able to stack any size pile of wood up and get a good average on height and width, and length = how much your cutter is getting paid on. I do truly hope you take the time to figure out how this works
My shed area was 17' long. But stacking 16" pieces to 6' gives a cord per row. Same with 5'x20' with the rows that are now kept outside, though 6'x17' works better with the tarps.. The bigger problem is when a friend or tree service cuts the wood, and it's not 16". But often free wood, especially if it is delivered, is worth it. Sometimes it isn't, if wonky cut pieces don't work well with hand splitting or in the splitter. But worst case, recutting a 22" piece with 2 angled ends at least gives one flat end, even if the 11" result doesn't mesh well with my 16" target.
Here in metric land (Sweden) firewood is sold in cubic meters, either piled or stacked. I have seen a few stores selling smaller amounts in bags measured either in liters or by mass/weight in kilograms too (I hope it is properly dry then...). Having a special unit for it seems like a very archaic thing to do, like the boardfeet you seem to be selling (woodworking) lumber in.
Dry or not, archaic is the way to go if you're trying to compare the mass of say, poplar to oak, or even black locust. Sure, we could do a metric conversion and use meters, but if you're really trading firewood by mass/weight, there be dragons.
@pettere8429 Oh, yeah, like I said, conversions to meters would be fine. It would require some adjustment in thinking, but sure... It's the mass/weight thing where I would have difficulty engaging. There's just too much difference between the density of hard woods to make it practical. I admit, though, that this is a luxury that I enjoy from living in the Eastern U.S. On the subject of cords VS. cu. meters/yards, even cu. ft. ... yeah, cords/face cords represent the ingrained cultural description of firewood that is entrenched here in N. America. It would require a c-change in thinking. And... because home-heating with wood is outside the norm of everyday life in N. America, there's no pressure or incentive to change. In fact, belonging to the 'group' and learning the lingo is exactly one of the cultural forces that keep it entreched.
In addition to a stacked cord = 128 cubic feet Maine has a legally defined not stacked measure called a loose cord. 180 cubic feet for 12" to 16" logs or 195 cubic feet for 24" logs. Any other places use these 2 definitions?
I sure enjoy your videos. I have started using "baskets" made fro concrete mesh. I make 3 x 100 cu ft baskets from one 50 x 5 roll. I will cut the rebar wires to open up to move wood. No stacking. No kids to do the dirty work. I hope I like this idea 5 years from now. Anyone try this before? ps 3 cord wood shed is full and more trees had to come down.
You should do a video instructing people on how to buy cordwood. There are a lot of people out there selling firewood who either intentionally or unintentionally will rip you off. First thing you need to do is stack and measure to see how close to a true cord you bought. Almost all sellers load wood into the truck with a bucket, and how they guess how many buckets makes a cord differs significantly. In the end it’s a guess. Stack and measure to verify. Second, look at the pieces being delivered. Are they all the same length? If not, it is going to be very difficult to stack and measure. Third, are the pieces straight, or is it lots of crotch wood. Did they trim the branches flush with the trunk or ate there branch nubs sticking out. If the pieces are not straight and uniform, then it is going to be impossible to get a tight stack.
A cord of wood originated while still in the round, unprocessed 4' x 4' x 8'. Here in Maine there is a law when selling processed firewood it shall measure 180 cf. When stacked will measure 110 to 115 cf.
I feel much better now that I can stack my cords in a liner way. It has always been a big hassle for me at the beginning of the stove season to get the wood off of the 8' tall tower of wood. Measurements are "L X W X H" (4X4X8)
I have to buck the wood for my small wood stove to 12". I stack each cord 4 inches high, 384 feet long. After several cords, I can see the curvature of the earth - or so I've been taught. I'm not sure how many cords it takes to go around the earth. The wife started burning it, and some of it floated away.
Of course 128 Sq. Ft. Is a cord of wood. I bought 10 cords at a time in 12 ft lengths for years and no one jumped out out the truck and chucked them up into 4 X 4 X 8 stacks!! There is a definite description of a cord of wood and it relates to board ft plus but I get lost trying to get it. Cheers 🇨🇦
Dang it, there’s going to come a time in the not to distant future where I’m going to need the loosely stacked number of 190 and I’m not only going to not remember it, I’m going to forget which video you mentioned it on! 🤦🏻♂️ That was excellent information to store away however 👍🏼
I agree I'm from upper Michigan now live in Arkansas and I hear the same thing all the time that if you have three Ricks is equal to a cord a Rick is supposed to be 16 ft by 8 ft by 4 ft High or face cord which is 24 inches wide 8 ft long and 4 ft High It Takes Two Face chords to make a cord but somehow people just don't understand that
Numbers don't lie Mike, some people just are not good at math and you need to accept they never will be. There are probably a dozen ways to stack a cord of wood which are all correct as long as they add up to 128 cubic feet
I was told that's called Rick Cord, one row 4' high and 24' long. You could stack it as long as you wanted, but 24' with square ends would be a cord. If the ends taper off, you would need to estimate. A face cord is 1/3 of a cord, one row 4' high 8' long, with square ends.
In rural TN. a rick is basically the same as a face-cord (1/3 of a cord), with the difference being that sometimes the ends are square-stacked. But where I grew up in upstate N.Y. (where it was full or face,) square-stacking was always dirty pool.
This is somekind of illitterate and sister copulating math i am to metric to understand. but love your videos otherwise. you sir are a breath of fresh air, so keep em coming
I see most people selling chords of wood that are not full cords. In high school I sold eucalyptus and live oak to pay my car insurance and to put spending money in my pocket. I stacked every cord to dry because I sold full chords. It took two truck loads to deliver a chord because if it is not stacked it takes up more space. Almost every customer I had said my chords were much larger than the chords they had been paying more money for. I did charge a stacking and delivery fee of $10-50 depending on distance and the attitude of the wood buyer. I can't believe the cost of a chord of wood now and it is often a short cord of soft wood to boot.
4'x4'x8' is solely derived from our ancestors in log form "only" weight measurement was not readily available back then...their "rule of thumb" for weight was 4'x4'x8' in logs to meet the weight of a cord... process these logs was to create a "face cord" for firewood 4'x16' ... firewood is sold by face cord, the length of split firewood determine's measurements ‼️
We have heated with cordwood since 1982. It never occurred to me this issue was a thing, 4x4x8 is just a convenient way to stack wood. There is a notion of a face cord but that is not common here in NH.
I have split (maybe 30") rounds with a wedge and sledge, a maul , and an axe a few times before, and I can say, I have a different idea of what was sold as a chord and what this looks like.
A full cord is the 4x4x8. Some sell by the face cord, 4x8 at whatever length the buyer likes the wood cut. Years ago when trains ran on steam and burned wood for the steam the buyer had a big tank full of water. You threw the wood you were selling into this tank. Then they had a frame that came down and pushed the wood under water. They measured the water displaced by the wood to determine how much wood was in the tank. They then paid you by that. This way the buyer got as much wood in a cord as they could.
This silliness is why I have gone to Face Cords....The face cord is 4x8 , a 12 inch full face cord , 16 inch full face cord, a 24 inch full face cord no matter the length of wood it is a face cord. I sell it by the 1/4 face. so for small wood stoves that take a 12" stick you wood ask for 12" 1/4 face cord and that is $XX.xx delivered due to it odd size it cost more.... that a 16" 1/4 face. Now why 1/4 face, simple I biult a box to stack the wood in for my truck... It is a full sheet of 3/4" ply with 2 foot high sides, stacking gives the customer assurance they are getting the money's worth. one row of 4 ft wide and 2 ft high is a 1/4 face cord.....
I knew a kid growing up who said very seriously one day, "I don't mind leeches, it's those blood suckers I can't stand." When we cracked up laughing, he just stood there with a blank look on his face, because he didn't know why we laughed?! 'Peers to me Michael you ran into Tony, all growed up. 😅
In other words, an 8 foot pickup bed. Wood would be stacked between the wheel wells. Front to back to the top of the cab. Possible you say, but the weight of approximately 2.5 tons.
Now do the bulk density of tightly stacked wood and do the calculation and estimate a cord by mass of wood! Break it down by wood type and moisture content. I’d watch that and give it a like!
A logging company recently took a bunch of trees from my farm and left a lot of branches that will make easy firewood. Most of it will be small enough I won't have to split it. Lol.
There's a video making the rounds where the guy says to a woman "I'm in second place in a race, and you pass me, what place are you now in?" She not only says "First place," but she's adamant that she's now in first place, because she passed the guy in second place. Like most things on the internet, you can't really tell if it's a skit, or what, but there are people like that out there. How they lived to be the age they are without a keeper is a mystery.
Even though I am a pedantic person... I find it best in these situations to take a breath and recommend those arguing seek immediate help from a proctologist.
Is a cord of wood split like that? That wood in the round would take up a lot more space. Is it also blocked into 16" pieces? I'd assume it'd be 4' lengths that would again have more space between the logs due to the slight bends here and there in the tree. There's so many ways to read into the definition. If you took a cord by the way I described it, blocked and spilt it, you'd have way less than that. Never really got into the nitty gritty of buying and selling wood. Just cut it. But I always wondered these things.
I was buying wood from a kid who could not understand why I wasn't happy with his "scaling". I had a dump trailer that would hold 2.5 cord if you tossed it in and rounded it off to a safe transport level. Every load got smaller and smaller and he and his dad would say no no I stacked it first so it's all there. Then I saw his stacks. They were 8 ' long , barely 4 foot high but as he got half way high the pieces got shorter and shorter. Most don't even what a cord is. Most think they know what a "face cord" is. I really don't think he intentionaly did this I think he was lazy though and wanted to give as little as possible. Anyone who cuts firewood knows , it's hard work that , unless, you have a processor , you're not going to get rich doing this for a living.
It would be interesting to see is you took your 1 cord stack of 4 x 24 x 1.33 and re-stacked it into a 4x4x8' cord to see if you would have fewer pieces of wood. I think your stack is probably tighter than the customary cord measurement therefore have a few more pieces of wood.
A stack 8 feet long and 4 foot high of 16 inch pieces is a face cord. A board foot is one foot by one foot by one inch. It is also 144 cubic inches. A 2 x 6 one foot long is a board foot (nominally). There are conventions within forest products that need to be considered. Then we get into how many board feet are in a tree.....
A full size pickup with side racks fully cab high can actually haul an entire cord of wood (well lightweight aspen anyway) for volume even when properly allowing for the wheel wells. 128 cubic feet is the volume number. A tightly stacked bed level load in my old F 150 worked out to about an honest 1/3 cord. Locally this was often called a "rank". Only "cord" and fractions of a "cord" have legal weights and measures status by definition in the state I live in. But yes, some people are dumb as hell, and refuse to learn anything real. Sell me a cord or sell me a 128 cu. ft. stack. Its all the same to me and the weights and measures div. of Missouri.Edit: Arguments may be directed to my lumberjack no brother good in law who ran his Spencer tape on this and did the math years ago.
I suppose an argument could be made that a seller with less integrity might prefer a "deeper" stack because there are more oppurtunites for air gaps between the ends of the sticks. Your 16 inch sticks would need to be jammed tightly end to end to make a 48" row. 14.5 to 15 inch sticks would make a very nice 4 ft row. Those few inches would add up in large volumes.
Did you ever see a 4 x4x8 cord? Back in the old days of steam, the fire box was 4 feet deep or wide and burned a 4 foot syick if wood, and the old timers would sell firewood cut on their property. On my family's farm, we have a small pile of true 4x4x8 cord wood left over from the old days.
Many people also say that you can only have a cord if you have 16" firewood. If you cut 12" firewood or 3' firewood lengths that you cannot properly calculate a cord of wood. Apparently the calculator has a hard time with that.
@@VegasEdo When I sold cord wood.. ...back in the Jurassic Period.. I cut standard 16"-18". Customer could request 12" or 24". Just stacked to the measure line on the dump truck regardless of length.
This type of content really strikes a cord with me.
As long as we’re all in one accord, we’ll get there together
😂
With a 16in run, you'd need to multiply by .333, not 1.333.
Chord..l
16” = 1.33ft
It’s pointless arguing with idiots, they’ll only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Like explaining tariffs to maga idiots and please stay out of my country you are no longer welcome hi from Canada
You are correct. The meaning of a cord of wood is, the dimensions of stacked wood that equals 128 cu ft. Look it up on line . People cut their fire wood at different lengths, 16", 18", 24"... It's the total cubic foot measurement not the dimensions of the pile that makes a cord of wood.
The 4x4x8 cord of wood came from how it was measured in 1610. It was measured with an 8 foot cord of rope. The first measurement was over the top and down the side. The second measurement was the length.
Interesting, thank you.
My dad was a math and music teacher in a couple of small logging towns in Oregon back in the 50's into the '80's. He would have loved this.
I applaud your cordial attempt to open up a civil discord on this subject. Accordingly I have recorded my approval by liking, commenting and subscribing.
...in accordance with proper conduct.
😅😂😅nice!
It’s math. A 2x4 is also a 4x2.
@@bobdavis5216 😲 You take that back!
What I like about your channel is that you provide what has basically become obsolete in todays world…… common sense! At the present rate common sense will be nonexistent in a generation or two……
Common sense is not that common.
Common sense is not obsolete……it’s endangered. Obsolete doesn’t mean what you think it does, it would seem. Common sense is most definitely still useful and applicable in today’s world, meaning it’s not obsolete at all.
Have you observed the sense that is COMMON these days?😶☕
Unfortunately not even common sense will cure STUPIDITY.
My father and I cut firewood at the ranch in Montana in the winter time for forty years, pine and fir that we sold by the cord (128 cubic feet). Same with my uncle, on the next ranch, up the creek. Once in a great while, someone would argue that the 3/4 ton truck with extra high sides that we used to deliver wood couldn't possibly hole a cord of firewood. It happened. My response: "If you don't want it, I've got two other families waiting on wood today, and I'll be happy to move on down the road." I never had to just drive off.
On the other hand, I've seen too many jerks pull up in a 1/2 ton with no racks and claiming their load was a cord.
Selling short cords and passing them as cords is illegal in many places, and I've turned cons in for it. One tried to claim it was just a pile, thrown out of the back of his pickup.
Arguing with an idiot is wasted energy. The more I meet people, the more I appreciate my dog.
Delivered fire wood when I was a kid. We always stacked the splits in the dump truck so as to not have any issues upon delivery. One delivery ordered 10 cord so we brought out the small and big dump trucks. First load was the small truck and he thanked us for the delivery handing us the check. I told him I’ll be right back with his next load=big truck. He was flabbergasted! For years He had been buying firewood from another supplier not knowing what 10 cord actually was. So he hired us to stack what fit in his shed and bring some pallets and tarp to dry store the rest.
I learned how to calculate the 'stacked cordwood' volume of a tree, a few years ago. Measure the volume of a firewood tree (in cubic feet) and multiply by 1.25 to get the predicted volume of the split and stacked wood. Divide by 128 and you have come up with the volume in cords. This allows for the fact that some of your stack is air spaces.
I'm sure I could Google it but I figured I would ask what measurements do I need to find out the volume of a standing firewood tree? Of course it would be an estimate but it would be nice to be able to get a base measurement and estimate a length and come up with a rough amount
Unfortunately, basic math skills are about as rare as common sense these days.
We appreciate your videos so much. Thank you for taking the time to catalog these lessons!
I have pondered... I hope you will too.
A cord is a cord. "They are right' 4X4X8 but they dont even know why.....
The measure of a cord of wood comes from steam boat days when boilers took 4 foot long pieces of wood. ANYONE could measure a single four foot piece of wood and from that single piece then measure twice its length thus measuring 4 by 4 by 8. When the wood was picked up it was quickly and easily measured with the very wood that was laying there. You left the stack of wood any where it could be seen from the river and the boats would stop, pick it up and leave you the money... the steam boats came on schedules give or take and thus you knew about when to look for your money.
They burned more wood than a forest fire so the demand was endless.
This was common practice on the Colombia and the Kootenay rivers
Worth noting the wood had to be debarked. It was common to pound the length of a green tree with a sledge hammer to looses the bark so it could be stripped. A good job for any man that was made of mostly metal.
Alas you are right also... 4 by 4 by 8 measure 128 cu feet of wood.. but no steam boat is going to buy it as it is NOT A CORD.
Read what I wrote with the same attitude you put in your video and you should be amused... education can be fun.
Ha, ha, ha, ha. Great video. Thank you. A cord of wood is like a yard of concrete. 1 yd of concrete = 27 CF, it doesn’t matter if it’s 3x3x3’ or 243 SF 4” thick.
I'm so glad that you clarified about how much firewood that it takes to make a cord. 128 cubic ft. is the magic number I understand now. So no matter how I "stack "it, my measurements should come out to 128 cubic ft. I never new this because people always have their own ideas about this. Yours is substantially based upon a number which is 128 cubic ft. Thanks for sharing!
A full size truck. 4x8x2 = 64 cu.ft. 1/2 cord
@@SteveLeingang-q3o fairly tightly stacked. My full-sized 88 GMC Sierra will hold a half-cord stacked, but only about a face-cord loosely tossed and slightly rounded.
Of course its 128 cu ft, when stacked. We used to say no matter how you stacked it. So the guy shows in his truck, dumps the wood, and you stack it, normally around here, if you thought it shy, you called them back and they were nice enough to bring a little more. And they wanted your business.
If people are stubborn about a cord being 4x4x8 is simply because they can't abstract them away from that formula and they clearly struggle with math. They don't care about the real volume, only about the form.
I would deliver them a 4 foot wide, 4 foot tall stack of 8-foot logs and charge them for a cord of firewood.
@charliesullivan4304 hilarious. Take it to another level, a big 4x4x8 ft block of wood.
i like the "tightly stacked" definition.....👍💯🏆
From what I understand it was 4’ unsplit lengths 4’ high and 8’ long. That volume is way more wood if you split it. It was an easy way to measure your woodcutters piecework. It is a lot easier to hand load 4’ lengths on a sled or cart between stakes to get them to the yard
Hey Mr Wilson Great video. Made me chuckle. lol like 3 sticks of wood end to end 16+16+16 = lol. However, I do like the way its stacked. 6 rows 6 cord. Easy peazy
That is a cord of wood ! I had a guy argue with me that he could haul 5 cords on his pickup in one load !! Hahahaahahahaha
I remember The old quotation “ Never argue with a fool, lest you be mistaken for one!”
That’s a very nice cord of wood you have there.
I'm 68 years old and I didn't know this. I was always told 4 4 8. Thanks for teaching me the right way. Not that I'm going to cut any more wood. 😂 I enjoy learning.
All official standards define a cord of wood as being 128 cubic feet, not necessarily 4'x4'x8'.
I cut firewood for at least 20 years, and I gained most of my knowledge from a old firewood cutter who did it commercially for 60+ years. He never sold a "cord" of firewood. He said that was an easy way to get into legal problems with the same morons you describe. He sold wood by the "LOAD". He put a price on the LOAD and you could take it or leave it!
I knew him well and I doubt anyone ever questioned his integrity. He had looked down the barrel of a gun at many people, and had pulled the trigger on a few. He was a true pioneer by every sense of the word.
Ironically he died from a fall in his shower when he was 90.
You are correct , true math is incapable of lying. Some folks don't comprehend math to the 3rd degree. Second degree represents AREA, third degree represents CUBIC AREA. To say a cord of wood not stacked 4x4x8 is not a cord is like saying four quarts of water isn't the equivalent of a gallon.
Wait, haven't you heard the new bill passed in Congress? It states 4 quarts is a gallon, but four quarts is not a gallon.
I was always told that a gap in the pile could be big enough for a rabbit to go through as long as the fox couldn't go through after him. But those are East coast rules, maybe things are different on the West coast.🙂
Here on the West coast, I was always told to make gaps big enough for a mouse to go through, but small enough that a cat can't follow.....pretty close to East coast rules...
west coast rules involve a squirrel and a cat.
@kenbrown2808 Learn something new after 40 years of logging, and 25 of firewood selling.
@@nomorenever2782 I'd rather be your customer.
@@BrettCraft I appreciate your comment. I retired a few years ago, and sold my businesses. Felling trees is a young man's game, and not some old guy's with multiple back injuries. I recently moved into the mountains of Washington state. I've been noticing trees that are threatening my cabin, and access road. Who knows? Maybe I'll get out the 044 or the 395 and try to turn back the clock....
I like to go to extremes sometimes for the sake of clarity, just to get someone to understand the basis of the idea. For example, you could have 128 perfect 1 foot by 1 foot by 1 foot cubes of wood, stacked up on top of each other or lined up in a single row and it's still a cord. Cord is a standard volumetric measurement, plain and simple. No matter what shape your pile is.
My great great grandfather would stack his firewood single high for 128 feet.
When men were men.
12" lengths, I hope
But you've got to have the real estate to allow for that, Eh?
@ great great grampa had a 3rd party verbal handshake agreement with his neighbors.
Would have to be 1ft high
Dad started using wood instead of diesel in 1976. Diesel went UP TO 9 CENTS a gallon and he was mad enough to yank the furnace out and build a big wood stove. We hauled wood in the 69 Chevy 1/2 ton 4x4. We had cab high side racks and went all the way to the back of the 8 foot bed, even leaving tailgate open sometimes. The first couple rear rims that literally split open from the weight should have been a wakeup call. 700-16 on old narrow car rims from the 40's failed often. Dad was one to get the most of everything. He never measured by the cord, but the "pickup load". We learned a lot from him except the hearing difference between WHOA and GO when skidding tamarack logs.
I would assume that when Ulysses Grant made a living selling firewood before entering politics and becoming president, a wagon load of firewood was roughly 4x4x8. Depending on the size of the wagon of course. I have great respect for the old timers with their "misery whips, buck saw and axes. I try to pay homage to these great woodsmen and split everything with a maul and axe. I love the work and exercise.
This corresponds very well to the volume of a cord of wood in France, mesured by the "stère" or one cubic meter of split wood, usally cut into 50 cm lengths, with the cord amount usually coming out to 3 and 1/3 stères. Mr.Wilson's stack comes out to almost 3 and 1/2 stères, so that's a generous cord going by French standards!
Mark Twain said: Never argue with stupid people or they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I'm glad you didn't get into the fact that a ton of wood weighs more than a ton of feathers!
is that bird feathers or horsefeathers?
'fact'
@@thecurrentmoment you guys are light-weights!
Would that be:
A short ton?
A long ton?
A metric ton?
A shyt ton?
@@RGreen-rt1fk yeah, but light weights made of steel so we still weigh way more
Buying firewood was sometimes the only option. And I didn't think I was getting my money worth. I had heard your formula for a cord. But I had been told by an older builder a cord was actually 48" wide and 52" tall by eight feet. Of course you could calculate it from different dimensions.
As my gramps used to say, "Some people would complain if you hanged them with a new rope." (the reason being that new rope has more stretch.) 😅 As to the measurement of a cord, I never cared a lick. The woodshed just had to be filled and it always seemed endless when I was a kid, because I was always appointed the one to stack the wood and fill it. It had to be tight too, so tight a mouse couldn't crawl through it, or I was made to do it over. If you decide to make a pig trebuchet, let me know, I'd love to see pigs fly. 😅
1:40 😂 “gotta tear this sh down” 😂 Had me rolling Ol’ Timer!! 👍🏻👍🏻🪵
You could take on the “face cord” crowd next. Please.
@@brentoconnor6127 don't you mean ricks, lol.
@@RGreen-rt1fk You mean 3 ricks to a cord? (each 16" deep)
While I agree completely, the comedian said it "You can't fix stupid".
I used to sell firewood.
128 cubic feet, neatly stacked.
It was Massachusetts State LAW!
PS: You owe the customer .000032 Cubic foot of wood in your pile there. 😂
Yankee incredulity.
Same in WA. No face or 1/3 cord allowed. Pages of firewood regs here.
Why didn’t you just add extra it’s easier, 😂😂,
oh dear ! the poor guy has to take refuge in silliness to deal with the ever expanding lot of morons in this world. always enjoyable Mr Wilson !
I think the biggest confusion with firewood is a full cord vs a face cord.
What's the difference
@TakeTheRide a face cord is 4 foot x8 foot x16 inches
Face chord .. sounds like s dishonest use of the word chord... just say 1/3 of a chord
@joelindsey9958 probably been called that for a hundred years
@@robertlivingston1634Yes, well, actually, a face cord can be any length IF pre-arranged by the customer, in my opinion. A 12" face would be 32 cu. ft., but still a face. If length is NOT mentioned, he should expect to get 42-2/3 cu. ft. in some form or other.
The art of choosing your battles online without dying
2:40 this guy sounds like the guy who was adamant that if a screw conveyor was conveying in the wrong direction, if you end for ended it it it would convey in the correct direction. This was a situation where the screw conveyor was powered by a tractor.
After being in the cedar shake bolts for shakes on public roofs I got very good at scaling how many feet in a stack of wood. Using the number eight for my denominator, as in eight times one is .... lets do it in numbers 8 X 1= .08, 8x2=.16, 8x3=.24 and so on. as in say 8x6=.48 or one half of a foot.... so in first example I rounded up .24 to .25, and the second half of this 8x6= .50. You can do this with every inch as in 8x11= .88 in the third quarter of four quarters of a foot. I hope you take the time to do what I showed you here. Take 8x9= .72, round it up three points on it to make it .75 or three quarters of a foot... See when guys are getting paid for how much they produce, they can't wait till they have a full cord of cedar blocks to get paid. Using this formula is making it able to stack any size pile of wood up and get a good average on height and width, and length = how much your cutter is getting paid on. I do truly hope you take the time to figure out how this works
That’s NOT a cord, it's three 1/3’s of a cord! Come on man.
It’s three face cords, duh… Read a book, get an education!!
@@danielquanbeck4405 you must be a Canuck to talk like that. Brothers and sisters to the south call it a "rick"..tag schooled ya.
@@happyrecluse2849we call it a face cord in Michigan too
My shed area was 17' long. But stacking 16" pieces to 6' gives a cord per row. Same with 5'x20' with the rows that are now kept outside, though 6'x17' works better with the tarps.. The bigger problem is when a friend or tree service cuts the wood, and it's not 16". But often free wood, especially if it is delivered, is worth it. Sometimes it isn't, if wonky cut pieces don't work well with hand splitting or in the splitter. But worst case, recutting a 22" piece with 2 angled ends at least gives one flat end, even if the 11" result doesn't mesh well with my 16" target.
Here in metric land (Sweden) firewood is sold in cubic meters, either piled or stacked. I have seen a few stores selling smaller amounts in bags measured either in liters or by mass/weight in kilograms too (I hope it is properly dry then...). Having a special unit for it seems like a very archaic thing to do, like the boardfeet you seem to be selling (woodworking) lumber in.
Dry or not, archaic is the way to go if you're trying to compare the mass of say, poplar to oak, or even black locust. Sure, we could do a metric conversion and use meters, but if you're really trading firewood by mass/weight, there be dragons.
@RGreen-rt1fk why not just cubic yards or feet? As I said, volume and specified if it is piled pr stacked is the standard here.
@pettere8429 Oh, yeah, like I said, conversions to meters would be fine. It would require some adjustment in thinking, but sure...
It's the mass/weight thing where I would have difficulty engaging. There's just too much difference between the density of hard woods to make it practical. I admit, though, that this is a luxury that I enjoy from living in the Eastern U.S.
On the subject of cords VS. cu. meters/yards, even cu. ft. ... yeah, cords/face cords represent the ingrained cultural description of firewood that is entrenched here in N. America. It would require a c-change in thinking. And... because home-heating with wood is outside the norm of everyday life in N. America, there's no pressure or incentive to change. In fact, belonging to the 'group' and learning the lingo is exactly one of the cultural forces that keep it entreched.
Ac-cord-ing to Hoyle, you are correct.
In addition to a stacked cord = 128 cubic feet Maine has a legally defined not stacked measure called a loose cord. 180 cubic feet for 12" to 16" logs or 195 cubic feet for 24" logs. Any other places use these 2 definitions?
I figure it’s my firewood ,if you want it ,buy it if not , I’ll keep it
I sure enjoy your videos. I have started using "baskets" made fro concrete mesh. I make 3 x 100 cu ft baskets from one 50 x 5 roll. I will cut the rebar wires to open up to move wood. No stacking. No kids to do the dirty work. I hope I like this idea 5 years from now. Anyone try this before? ps 3 cord wood shed is full and more trees had to come down.
You should do a video instructing people on how to buy cordwood. There are a lot of people out there selling firewood who either intentionally or unintentionally will rip you off. First thing you need to do is stack and measure to see how close to a true cord you bought. Almost all sellers load wood into the truck with a bucket, and how they guess how many buckets makes a cord differs significantly. In the end it’s a guess. Stack and measure to verify. Second, look at the pieces being delivered. Are they all the same length? If not, it is going to be very difficult to stack and measure. Third, are the pieces straight, or is it lots of crotch wood. Did they trim the branches flush with the trunk or ate there branch nubs sticking out. If the pieces are not straight and uniform, then it is going to be impossible to get a tight stack.
This channel is exactly how my channel would look and sound like if I had one that wasn't just crap. My humor is the same, I'm just not as witty.
Thank you for clarifying this information.
Too funny
my Dad and I always stack that wood in a 24 foot length it was just easier for a cord of wood Thanks, great video
A cord of wood originated while still in the round, unprocessed 4' x 4' x 8'. Here in Maine there is a law when selling processed firewood it shall measure 180 cf. When stacked will measure 110 to 115 cf.
I feel much better now that I can stack my cords in a liner way. It has always been a big hassle for me at the beginning of the stove season to get the wood off of the 8' tall tower of wood. Measurements are "L X W X H" (4X4X8)
I have to buck the wood for my small wood stove to 12". I stack each cord 4 inches high, 384 feet long. After several cords, I can see the curvature of the earth - or so I've been taught. I'm not sure how many cords it takes to go around the earth. The wife started burning it, and some of it floated away.
Of course 128 Sq. Ft. Is a cord of wood. I bought 10 cords at a time in 12 ft lengths for years and no one jumped out out the truck and chucked them up into 4 X 4 X 8 stacks!! There is a definite description of a cord of wood and it relates to board ft plus but I get lost trying to get it. Cheers 🇨🇦
Good one....yup, some peoples brains are closed to more education and change.
8 goes into 24 3 times. 3 times 16 " equals 48" which is 4'.
3 piles of 16" firewood 8' long and 4' high stacked side by side equals 4' wide, making it 4x4x8 the required chord size. Basic my dear Watson!
@bard44 ah... but some like space between the stacks. The linear stack method does have advantages in curing.
Maths and stuff 😮
Dang it, there’s going to come a time in the not to distant future where I’m going to need the loosely stacked number of 190 and I’m not only going to not remember it, I’m going to forget which video you mentioned it on! 🤦🏻♂️ That was excellent information to store away however 👍🏼
I agree I'm from upper Michigan now live in Arkansas and I hear the same thing all the time that if you have three Ricks is equal to a cord a Rick is supposed to be 16 ft by 8 ft by 4 ft High or face cord which is 24 inches wide 8 ft long and 4 ft High It Takes Two Face chords to make a cord but somehow people just don't understand that
Numbers don't lie Mike, some people just are not good at math and you need to accept they never will be. There are probably a dozen ways to stack a cord of wood which are all correct as long as they add up to 128 cubic feet
I was told that's called Rick Cord, one row 4' high and 24' long. You could stack it as long as you wanted, but 24' with square ends would be a cord. If the ends taper off, you would need to estimate. A face cord is 1/3 of a cord, one row 4' high 8' long, with square ends.
In rural TN. a rick is basically the same as a face-cord (1/3 of a cord), with the difference being that sometimes the ends are square-stacked. But where I grew up in upstate N.Y. (where it was full or face,) square-stacking was always dirty pool.
So.e people would argue wth a stop sign!! Stay Hydrated and Have a Safe Day
Hopefully the rip off people will realize that they better be careful on advertising a cord. Good video.
This is somekind of illitterate and sister copulating math i am to metric to understand.
but love your videos otherwise. you sir are a breath of fresh air, so keep em coming
With a pine scent for freshness.
Freedom units are best units 😂
Wood cut to different fire box length can obviously change the dimensions of a stack, but volume is still there.
So, what you have there is a "long cord", right? Thanks for the video.
Extension cord
@@mikevee9145now you’re really stretching it.
@@brentoconnor6127
That would be tumble stack.
All air, no wood!
@blaydCA That's a stack of cards, not cords, right?
Sorry I couldn't see the whole video... my eyes were too busy rolling into the back of my head. 😂
I see most people selling chords of wood that are not full cords. In high school I sold eucalyptus and live oak to pay my car insurance and to put spending money in my pocket. I stacked every cord to dry because I sold full chords. It took two truck loads to deliver a chord because if it is not stacked it takes up more space. Almost every customer I had said my chords were much larger than the chords they had been paying more money for. I did charge a stacking and delivery fee of $10-50 depending on distance and the attitude of the wood buyer. I can't believe the cost of a chord of wood now and it is often a short cord of soft wood to boot.
Thank you, didn't know the 128 cubic feet bit
4'x4'x8' is solely derived from our ancestors in log form "only" weight measurement was not readily available back then...their "rule of thumb" for weight was 4'x4'x8' in logs to meet the weight of a cord... process these logs was to create a "face cord" for firewood 4'x16' ... firewood is sold by face cord, the length of split firewood determine's measurements ‼️
We have heated with cordwood since 1982. It never occurred to me this issue was a thing, 4x4x8 is just a convenient way to stack wood. There is a notion of a face cord but that is not common here in NH.
I have split (maybe 30") rounds with a wedge and sledge, a maul , and an axe a few times before, and I can say, I have a different idea of what was sold as a chord and what this looks like.
Some people might be offended by references. Looks good to me. 👍
4’x24’x16” stack is referred to as Face Cord up here in the Northeast.
A full cord is the 4x4x8. Some sell by the face cord, 4x8 at whatever length the buyer likes the wood cut.
Years ago when trains ran on steam and burned wood for the steam the buyer had a big tank full of water. You threw the wood you were selling into this tank. Then they had a frame that came down and pushed the wood under water.
They measured the water displaced by the wood to determine how much wood was in the tank. They then paid you by that.
This way the buyer got as much wood in a cord as they could.
If they insist a cord is ONLY 4×4×8 then when it gets delivered and unloaded into a pile, then I guess the pile delivered isn't a cord.
This silliness is why I have gone to Face Cords....The face cord is 4x8 , a 12 inch full face cord , 16 inch full face cord, a 24 inch full face cord no matter the length of wood it is a face cord. I sell it by the 1/4 face. so for small wood stoves that take a 12" stick you wood ask for 12" 1/4 face cord and that is $XX.xx delivered due to it odd size it cost more.... that a 16" 1/4 face.
Now why 1/4 face, simple I biult a box to stack the wood in for my truck... It is a full sheet of 3/4" ply with 2 foot high sides, stacking gives the customer assurance they are getting the money's worth. one row of 4 ft wide and 2 ft high is a 1/4 face cord.....
Yes SIR You Are Right
I knew a kid growing up who said very seriously one day, "I don't mind leeches, it's those blood suckers I can't stand." When we cracked up laughing, he just stood there with a blank look on his face, because he didn't know why we laughed?! 'Peers to me Michael you ran into Tony, all growed up. 😅
In other words, an 8 foot pickup bed. Wood would be stacked between the wheel wells. Front to back to the top of the cab. Possible you say, but the weight of approximately 2.5 tons.
Now do the bulk density of tightly stacked wood and do the calculation and estimate a cord by mass of wood! Break it down by wood type and moisture content. I’d watch that and give it a like!
A logging company recently took a bunch of trees from my farm and left a lot of branches that will make easy firewood. Most of it will be small enough I won't have to split it. Lol.
There's a video making the rounds where the guy says to a woman "I'm in second place in a race, and you pass me, what place are you now in?"
She not only says "First place," but she's adamant that she's now in first place, because she passed the guy in second place.
Like most things on the internet, you can't really tell if it's a skit, or what, but there are people like that out there. How they lived to be the age they are without a keeper is a mystery.
Even though I am a pedantic person... I find it best in these situations to take a breath and recommend those arguing seek immediate help from a proctologist.
Is a cord of wood split like that? That wood in the round would take up a lot more space. Is it also blocked into 16" pieces? I'd assume it'd be 4' lengths that would again have more space between the logs due to the slight bends here and there in the tree. There's so many ways to read into the definition. If you took a cord by the way I described it, blocked and spilt it, you'd have way less than that.
Never really got into the nitty gritty of buying and selling wood. Just cut it. But I always wondered these things.
I was buying wood from a kid who could not understand why I wasn't happy with his "scaling". I had a dump trailer that would hold 2.5 cord if you tossed it in and rounded it off to a safe transport level. Every load got smaller and smaller and he and his dad would say no no I stacked it first so it's all there. Then I saw his stacks. They were 8 ' long , barely 4 foot high but as he got half way high the pieces got shorter and shorter. Most don't even what a cord is. Most think they know what a "face cord" is. I really don't think he intentionaly did this I think he was lazy though and wanted to give as little as possible. Anyone who cuts firewood knows , it's hard work that , unless, you have a processor , you're not going to get rich doing this for a living.
It would be interesting to see is you took your 1 cord stack of 4 x 24 x 1.33 and re-stacked it into a 4x4x8' cord to see if you would have fewer pieces of wood. I think your stack is probably tighter than the customary cord measurement therefore have a few more pieces of wood.
If you stack wood to size of a Honda Accord it's about right.
It's funny how math works. LOL 🤣
A stack 8 feet long and 4 foot high of 16 inch pieces is a face cord. A board foot is one foot by one foot by one inch. It is also 144 cubic inches. A 2 x 6 one foot long is a board foot (nominally). There are conventions within forest products that need to be considered. Then we get into how many board feet are in a tree.....
A full size pickup with side racks fully cab high can actually haul an entire cord of wood (well lightweight aspen anyway) for volume even when properly allowing for the wheel wells. 128 cubic feet is the volume number. A tightly stacked bed level load in my old F 150 worked out to about an honest 1/3 cord. Locally this was often called a "rank". Only "cord" and fractions of a "cord" have legal weights and measures status by definition in the state I live in. But yes, some people are dumb as hell, and refuse to learn anything real. Sell me a cord or sell me a 128 cu. ft. stack. Its all the same to me and the weights and measures div. of Missouri.Edit: Arguments may be directed to my lumberjack no brother good in law who ran his Spencer tape on this and did the math years ago.
I suppose an argument could be made that a seller with less integrity might prefer a "deeper" stack because there are more oppurtunites for air gaps between the ends of the sticks. Your 16 inch sticks would need to be jammed tightly end to end to make a 48" row. 14.5 to 15 inch sticks would make a very nice 4 ft row. Those few inches would add up in large volumes.
Did you ever see a 4 x4x8 cord? Back in the old days of steam, the fire box was 4 feet deep or wide and burned a 4 foot syick if wood, and the old timers would sell firewood cut on their property. On my family's farm, we have a small pile of true 4x4x8 cord wood left over from the old days.
Many people also say that you can only have a cord if you have 16" firewood. If you cut 12" firewood or 3' firewood lengths that you cannot properly calculate a cord of wood. Apparently the calculator has a hard time with that.
@@VegasEdo
When I sold cord wood..
...back in the Jurassic Period..
I cut standard 16"-18".
Customer could request 12" or 24".
Just stacked to the measure line on the dump truck regardless of length.
128 cubic feet is a cord of wood
128 ounces is a Gallon (memory crutch for me)
✅
Thank you