This was the last piece I learned as a teenager taking lessons. I chose to stop lessons because I was in a prep high school and wanted to focus on that. Well, now I am 73 years old and my goal is to play Beethovens Moonlight Sonata (all movements) and Sonata Pathetique again. Wish me luck!!
It sounds so very raw and visceral on the fortepiano. We get a sense of Beethoven pushing the instrument to its absolute limits, and I am absolutely here for that! This was a wonderful video. Your insight and enthusiasm really shine through.
I rarely comment on videos and this may sound dumb/cheap to some out here but I feel this video to be the utmost captivating adrenaline rushing music video I have ever stumbled on in all of the years of traversing the extensive RUclips landscape (am 51,5 years but I refuse to update my thumbnail 🙂)! Thanks for sharing Beethoven's legacy with so much vigour, passion and compositional insight, "simply the best" joyride into Beethoven's mind, a finale masterclass like there is no other. Much love and warm greetings from the other side of the Channel (Belgium) to Loki and you (respectively ;-))...
Thanks for not giving in to the speed race on this movement, there's so much richness and many beautiful moments that a lot of pianists just gloss over to sound loud and fast! Too many modern pianists missing out on the rhetorical content of this music. I could certainly hear thought and consideration in the performance, it had that spontaneous air of making it up in the moment, made the more unexpected turns in the music pop out.
I love that these videos feels like a class/lesson with you, because of how you frame it so academically. I love Moonlight Sonata, and the 3rd movement but it seemed impossible !
Beethoven’s finales are always magnificent. One of this movement’s most amazing aspects is its staccato bass under the opening arpeggios, and also the Alberti bass is magnificent. But what completely stands out is the amazing repeated chords motif… just amazing to play !
I've never heard of fortepiano before. That sounded spectacular. I especially appreciate how expressive you were, use of rubato, and bringing out key rhythmic elements.
A fantastic video/analysis of this amazing movement. The sheer power and agitation, played at such a rapid pace, is absolutely breathtaking...the fact that it is structured in such a way to be the ultimate apotheosis of the entire sonata is mind blowing. It was incredibly forward looking (while still being grounded in certain baroque and classical principles) and it still holds up as MUSIC today!!! As for the interpretation...very well done, and it is interesting how much clearer those deep bass notes/chords ring out, compared to interpretations on the modern piano. Great video!!!
Love it. Man…. We need more of this. Some of those Mozart sonatas amazing too. That forte piano has a clanky sound. Sort of harpsichord like. Those harpsichord strings in there! Amazing!
The fortepiano certainly has a different sound from a standard grand, I think I can hear some "twang" in it. The playing was superb regardless of the difference in timbre! Thank you for the video!
The fortepiano was great indeed! I am used to the sound of the fortepiano, I even had played it a bit, but you have just found color patches and sonorities that were just beyond my imagination! You have just so fabulously demonstrated how Beethoven played the piano in a way that no one had before.
Thank you so much for this. The 3rd movement is the piece that led me to the piano. It floored me on a profound level. Every example of your breakdown resonates with me, and I cant tell you how much I appreciate your wisdom here:)
Greatly enjoyed this lecture! ...AND your performance of the piece at the end! Even with all your uncomfortable moments, it was marvelous! Thank you! (from Wayne W in Rogers, Arkansas, USA)
I love just how things click into place with these explanations. A lot of earlier music semantics are forgotten nowadays, but the emotions and spirit is still there, waiting to uncovered. A banger video as always, many thanks to you, Professor!
I love your interpretation on the fortepiano. The recording sounds like a harp, lute, and harpsichord all at once at times, giving it a sort of rawness. I also appreciated your rubato; the way you played with second subject's first idea almost like the dotted rhythm was Rameau, treating it like notes inégales… Expressive! Love the Neapolitan.
Dear Matthew, I just wanted to say how much I admire your talent. Watching you play such complex pieces with so much feeling, while also explaining them, is truly amazing. Your performances are not only beautiful but also really engaging and educational. Thank you for sharing your gift with us! Your friend from Utah. Update: comment made before the fortepiano performance...oh my Heavens! Makes me think of you two playing opposite of each other. Maybe some glorious time in the future! What an historic event that would be! Weird, I know. How would you like that?
Hello! I hope you'll still see this comment on an older video. I discovered your channel and I really love your passion for the music but also the great historical information you provide to create an understanding of both what was going on in music at the time and what was going on in the composer's mind. The performance on the Pianoforte was amazing - I don't think I've ever heard one before, and it's amazing how much it changes the piece! Particularly fascinating is how, when it was played more softly, it more closely resembled a modern piano, yet when played more loudly it sounded very similar to a harpsichord, which gave it a lot of clarity for those fast toccata-like passages. Well done, sir!
A magnificent and spirited performance! I always tell my pupils that any slight "rough edges" are akin to slightly damaged packaging in the post: The important thing is the Contents! We soon forget about the odd squashed corner or creased envelope! That was truly brilliant - And it was fascinating to hear all 3 movements on the forte piano.
I am far from an expert on music theory, but I especially appreciated the description of the strategy of the chromatic descent from tonic to dominant. I will be listening for that in the future in music of that era.
Thank you for this! Another insightful analysis! As an amateur I struggled to learn this piece and play it at speed - my hands inevitably begin to cramp playing those arpeggios. But it is worth the effort so dramatic! I lived the fortepiano version. But modern piano is certainly more powerful
In my younger musical life, I was constantly irritated by what I saw as unjustified liberties with tempo. Later as my exposure broadened, I came to realize that I have very strong ideas as to such liberties. One thing I enjoy about what I have heard from you so far is that you sensibilities as to tempo seem very congenial to my own. Thanks for the wonderful presentations, especially this one, where your passion for the subject is most apparent.
Your videos have been the perfect blend of music theory and an eased approach for me and people alike. I always learn something new, while perfectly understanding all your points - which is not guaranteed, given my (lack of) music education. Hearing about pieces outside their own frame while learning about details that make them masterpieces does wonders for me. Thank you! (Also, thanks for including rendition on the intended instrument. Many pepole just don't consider technical aspects of compositions' time.)
Really excellent content. I really enjoy your videos as you can explain the pillars of classical music , yet why it is revolutionary at the same time. Beethoven also used these Baroque style ritornellos in the 1st movement Pathetique piano sonata { I think it's Op 13}
I liked the video early on whilst Loki was keeping you company. I noticed the change when he left, but kept watching to the end. I don't mean to compain, but you never let him play the piano.
"That's the way, ah ha ah ha, I like it "! I could never attempt to play it, but there's no doubting the energy, the vitality and the humanity of this piece of music.
New word! Passus Duriusculus! Which is also the harmonic basis for: Hushabye Mountain, Hotel California and Life on Mars (among much else). Does anyone else out there think that the 3rd movement is a (wild) variation of the 1st movement? Plus other bits, of course. The chord structures match exactly for a good long while, but we've moved from an oceanic world of rising 3-note arpeggios to a rattling, hectic factory world of quarter and eighth note arpeggios.
Really interesting comment. Yes, the Passus Duriusculus occurs in all sorts of music! There's a wonderful example (complete with harpsichord!) in the chorus of Destiny's Child's 'Bills, Bills, Bills': ruclips.net/video/NiF6-0UTqtc/видео.htmlsi=H0pvp3QpiFz_jgUl (perhaps I ought to do a video about this!)
20:39 I never noticed that similarity. No wonder I could sight read it on the second piece. On the fortepiano I could hear the double grace notes of the half notes more distinctly, due to the nature of the instrument.
Thank you once again Professor, great stuff! Beethoven certainly set a very high bar for future generations in so many aspects of composition, especially as you mentioned where finales are concerned. I remember Andras Schiff making a similar comment in his survey of the Beethoven sonatas in regards to how romantic composers following Beethoven struggled to bring home the goods with their finales. However, I do think some of Brahms's finales were as good as Beethoven's, notably the finale to his Piano Quintet in F minor Op. 34.
Oh absolutely. Brahms wrote some amazing finales (the 4th symphony for example!) Yes the F minor quintet is amazing. I think the point I was making was that Beethoven is very consistent at writing knockout finales. The only failure I can think of is his final piece: the substitute finale to his quartet Op. 130.
Did you know that the chord sequence at the beginning of the Waldstein sonata mirrors the same in the 'Climb every mountain' number from The Sound of Music?
Many thanks! In terms of dramatic presto minor-key finales, the nearest thing that came to my mind from earlier times was the finale of Haydn's B-minor H.XVI No.32.
Loved both the detailed explanation and the instrument. You referred to it (the performance, I assume) as an "unprepared piano" -- is that a tongue-in-cheek opposite of a chunk of John Cage's work? 😉 I really like a bit of fortepiano now and then, but it's a bit of an acquired taste.
It's interesting how much variation in speed you have at various parts of the movement, and not just inthe cadenza-like passages, or where it's marked "Adagio"
Great discussion and elaboration as always. I am thinking Beethoven (and many composers of his and previous era) would enjoy his compositions much more with today's pianos and ...
Ludwig held Mozart in high regard. Ferdinand Ries, who was Beethoven's friend and student wrote: "Of all composers, Beethoven valued Mozart and Handel.
Yes, and he was acutely aware, all his life, that he was 'destined' to inherit Mozart's mantle. When he left Bonn for Vienna, in 1792, Count Waldstein wrote to him, “You will receive the spirit of Mozart from the hands of Haydn.”
I really wish these piece wasn't so overplayed, so I could enjoy it properly! I've been aware of it since I was a child, and now I hear it everywhere, it's super exhausting. I think this video helps me to appreciate it more thoroughly, it really is a shame I can't listen to it casually anymore.
Just yesterday I came across and watched the previous 2 parts and thought it was a pity that the third one hasn't come out yet :) About six months ago I heard the third part of the sonata for the first time and it is still my favorite song on the piano. But I like listening to it with a slower bpm
Interesting interpretation - very different from that with which I am familiar - I heard parts accented which I had not noticed before (I like that- very funky - like James Brown) - I do prefer the richer sound of a modern piano - bass register sounded like a guitar on fuzz peddle. excellent performance - thanks Doc.
Great to see you Professor, again. What is the meaning of the 3d movement? p.s. Wonder if Mozart lived into the 19th century, where would his music evolve? Would he go the way of Beethoven with his "revolutionary", power-emotion-driven music into the end of pre-industrial age? May be this is why Mozart died; he was to transcend the mind and our human "progress". Thank you for another great class!
Who knows how Mozart's style might have evolved! That is a fascinating question. I don't know if we can define the meaning exactly but the sonata broadly moves from the dark, brooding poem of the slow first movement, through the moderate tempo dance of the 2nd movement into the ferocious, fast sonata. So it has a marvellous dramatic arc.
8:30 - this figure is also very Mozartian, found e.g. in his 20th Piano concerto, the A minor piano sonata, this is, I would argue, a violin/tutti orchestral figure employed to evoke an orchestral tutti and a way to reach a local culmination. I think it has a broader function in the Classical period other than to evoke Baroque seriousness.
Love your channel, Matthew! I have a question which I'd love for you to answer (or someone else in the comments section.) Obviously Beethoven knew what he was doing and didn't need me to say "hey, you know I think I have a better idea for an ending than you do!" But that said.... Immediately after the big Chopin-nicked run before the recap, my gut told me that the opening theme from the first movement should have been recapitulated instead of the ending Ludwig chose. Obviously I'm an idiot, but if you could... why would this sort of "referring to previous movements" concept be forbidden? Was this something that would never have occurred to Beethoven or was the FORM always the dictator of how a composition should be organized? (ie. You just would NEVER DO THAT!) I think ending with the first movement main theme would have been amazing!! But again... how many amazing Classical works am I famous for having composed??? Opus zero!
Interesting idea! I'd not thought of that possibility. I suspect in 1802 it would not have been viewed as a sort of violation of good practice: I think the idea would have been that thought the movements belonged together, they each brought their own individual character and material, and mixing them would have been frowned on. But Beethoven does this later in his career: the wonderful Op. 101 sonata brings back a 'quotation' of the opening just before the finale (and he does this in the 9th symphony too). Even in those pieces, it's a reference to the past that has to be put aside before the finale comes in. It's only later in the 19th century that Romanticism permits such things!
You said you couldn't think of anything like it from the 18th century. ( 11:36 ) Maybe you know another composer who used this rhythmic technique? I would be grateful if you could tell me the title of this composition :)
You see similar syncopated patterns in Mozart's famous D minor piano concerto K466 but Beethoven's use of syncopation is unusually funky for the period.
Interestingly, Rudolph Westphal, in the afterword to his General Theory of Musical Rhythm Since J. S. Bach (Allgemeine Theorie der musikalischen Rhythmik seit J. S. Bach) from 1880, advises us to audibly separate (with an actual caesura) the first note of bars 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 from the following notes and give it an accent as climax of the preceding crescendo. (We'd obviously need a much slower tempo to even try that effect out.)
I would argue that Westphal’s somewhat eccentric views on rhythm in the 1880s (derived from his reading of rhythms in Ancient Greek literature) don’t have much bearing on interpreting Beethoven. The marking is Presto Agitato and Beethoven would have been aware of Mozart’s criticism of Clementi: “He marks a piece presto but plays only allegro.”
It would be interesting to hear how old Mozart was when he wrote the exuberant pieces (died very young) as opposed to Beethoven who might have been almost fully deaf at that comparison point.
Mozart was in his 20s when he wrote the finales to his A minor sonata and the C minor fantasia and sonata. When Beethoven composed the Moonlight Sonata, he was slightly older (31) but still young! And he'd composed an astonishing set of sonatas already by this time.
You have maybe heard this one allready, but it really whips up the mood in this movement. ruclips.net/video/84JSGMrrHpI/видео.html And as always, thank you for the analysis. Beethoven has been in my life since I was 6 - 7 years. Now at 61, he's the classical composer I always come back to.
I think it’s cool of hearing it on its original intended instrument but I do not like the sound of it. The notes don’t ring or sound full and the low F# sounds very weak and dull. Spoiled by modern pianos I guess for a thunderous piece such as this.
I love a good Beethoven finale, but feel a bit shortchanged by the Rondo that ends the Pathetique. And though I love the last movement of the Archduke, it seems merely happy, and not a satisfying resolution of the earlier movements complexities and mysteries.
Interesting. The Pathetique Rondo is more of an 18th century conception of a finale: a lighter movement than its predecessors, but it has wonderful invention and highly ingenious elaboration of material from the previous movements (I will do a video about this at some point!) The finale of the Archduke is wonderful: lyrical and poetic as well as happy. I think Brahms may have had it in mind when he composed the finale of his 2nd piano concerto in the same key, but his finale is a bit too light.
Thanks for these points - and indeed, all your videos. Hugely illuminating. I was particularly fascinated by the connection with Chopin's Polonaise Fantasy!
The 3rd movement is a hysterical hodgepodge. Intolerable to listen to. I came for the insights shared by the professor, which are the best you'll find on YT.
Hysterical, yes...but "intolerable to listen to"??? No way do I agree with that, nor the idea that it is in any way "hodgepodge"...I think Matthew explains that it is structured brilliantly and is in fact, a profound summation of the entire sonata...let alone the fact that it is revolutionary in terms of what it expresses...he invented Heavy Metal in 1801!!!
@@declandougan7243 Even giving it the Glenn Gould treatment doesn't work, imo. No amount of slamming the piano can compensate for Beethoven's inferior 3rd movement material; he simply had a bad day at the office. No, I haven't composed a sonata.
The fortepiano seems a bit dull, hollow, less depth and richness, and not finely tuned ... like what's supposed to be a fine wine that you're hoping will finish with lingering complexity but disappoints and fades prematurely.
This was the last piece I learned as a teenager taking lessons. I chose to stop lessons because I was in a prep high school and wanted to focus on that. Well, now I am 73 years old and my goal is to play Beethovens Moonlight Sonata (all movements) and Sonata Pathetique again. Wish me luck!!
Good luck!
It sounds so very raw and visceral on the fortepiano. We get a sense of Beethoven pushing the instrument to its absolute limits, and I am absolutely here for that!
This was a wonderful video. Your insight and enthusiasm really shine through.
Thank you so much. I'm really pleased that the fortepiano has that effect - I hoped it would!
Love it! The fortepiano is full of rattles and other harmonics that just make the work so raw and intimidatingly wild!
I rarely comment on videos and this may sound dumb/cheap to some out here but I feel this video to be the utmost captivating adrenaline rushing music video I have ever stumbled on in all of the years of traversing the extensive RUclips landscape (am 51,5 years but I refuse to update my thumbnail 🙂)! Thanks for sharing Beethoven's legacy with so much vigour, passion and compositional insight, "simply the best" joyride into Beethoven's mind, a finale masterclass like there is no other. Much love and warm greetings from the other side of the Channel (Belgium) to Loki and you (respectively ;-))...
Thank you so much! What a lovely comment!
That's so true.. Beethoven was an absolute master at finales. He knew how to close out a piece like nobody else.
Thanks for not giving in to the speed race on this movement, there's so much richness and many beautiful moments that a lot of pianists just gloss over to sound loud and fast! Too many modern pianists missing out on the rhetorical content of this music. I could certainly hear thought and consideration in the performance, it had that spontaneous air of making it up in the moment, made the more unexpected turns in the music pop out.
Thank you!
I love that these videos feels like a class/lesson with you, because of how you frame it so academically. I love Moonlight Sonata, and the 3rd movement but it seemed impossible !
Loki is great ❤.... thank you very much for your enthusiasm!!!!
Beethoven’s finales are always magnificent.
One of this movement’s most amazing aspects is its staccato bass under the opening arpeggios, and also the Alberti bass is magnificent. But what completely stands out is the amazing repeated chords motif… just amazing to play !
I've never heard of fortepiano before. That sounded spectacular. I especially appreciate how expressive you were, use of rubato, and bringing out key rhythmic elements.
A fantastic video/analysis of this amazing movement. The sheer power and agitation, played at such a rapid pace, is absolutely breathtaking...the fact that it is structured in such a way to be the ultimate apotheosis of the entire sonata is mind blowing. It was incredibly forward looking (while still being grounded in certain baroque and classical principles) and it still holds up as MUSIC today!!! As for the interpretation...very well done, and it is interesting how much clearer those deep bass notes/chords ring out, compared to interpretations on the modern piano. Great video!!!
BTW...I have the same T-shirt of the famous 'Fate' motif from the 5th...love it!
Thank you for your encouraging comments. Much appreciated!!
Love it. Man…. We need more of this. Some of those Mozart sonatas amazing too. That forte piano has a clanky sound. Sort of harpsichord like. Those harpsichord strings in there! Amazing!
The fortepiano certainly has a different sound from a standard grand, I think I can hear some "twang" in it. The playing was superb regardless of the difference in timbre! Thank you for the video!
I agree about the twang. Perhaps not fully in tune? Little would I know😂
Great, thanks for this. Beethoven, just an otherworldly genius.
Once you explained the irregular beat of dvpt. theme 2, I managed to hit those trills with my small hands for the first time. Thanks Professor!
The fortepiano was great indeed! I am used to the sound of the fortepiano, I even had played it a bit, but you have just found color patches and sonorities that were just beyond my imagination! You have just so fabulously demonstrated how Beethoven played the piano in a way that no one had before.
Thank you so much for this. The 3rd movement is the piece that led me to the piano. It floored me on a profound level. Every example of your breakdown resonates with me, and I cant tell you how much I appreciate your wisdom here:)
Thank you!
Greatly enjoyed this lecture! ...AND your performance of the piece at the end! Even with all your uncomfortable moments, it was marvelous! Thank you! (from Wayne W in Rogers, Arkansas, USA)
I love just how things click into place with these explanations. A lot of earlier music semantics are forgotten nowadays, but the emotions and spirit is still there, waiting to uncovered.
A banger video as always, many thanks to you, Professor!
I love your interpretation on the fortepiano. The recording sounds like a harp, lute, and harpsichord all at once at times, giving it a sort of rawness. I also appreciated your rubato; the way you played with second subject's first idea almost like the dotted rhythm was Rameau, treating it like notes inégales… Expressive! Love the Neapolitan.
Dear Matthew, I just wanted to say how much I admire your talent. Watching you play such complex pieces with so much feeling, while also explaining them, is truly amazing. Your performances are not only beautiful but also really engaging and educational. Thank you for sharing your gift with us!
Your friend from Utah.
Update: comment made before the fortepiano performance...oh my Heavens! Makes me think of you two playing opposite of each other. Maybe some glorious time in the future! What an historic event that would be! Weird, I know. How would you like that?
Thank you for the kind comment! Lovely to know that you're watching in Utah!
Hello! I hope you'll still see this comment on an older video. I discovered your channel and I really love your passion for the music but also the great historical information you provide to create an understanding of both what was going on in music at the time and what was going on in the composer's mind. The performance on the Pianoforte was amazing - I don't think I've ever heard one before, and it's amazing how much it changes the piece! Particularly fascinating is how, when it was played more softly, it more closely resembled a modern piano, yet when played more loudly it sounded very similar to a harpsichord, which gave it a lot of clarity for those fast toccata-like passages. Well done, sir!
Thank you!
Aaah, my favorite video series returns! I love these videos so much. I'd want 4-hour lectures, twice a day if I was enrolled.
A magnificent and spirited performance! I always tell my pupils that any slight "rough edges" are akin to slightly damaged packaging in the post: The important thing is the Contents! We soon forget about the odd squashed corner or creased envelope! That was truly brilliant - And it was fascinating to hear all 3 movements on the forte piano.
when chopin copies you, you know whats up
I said it before and I shall say it again: I adore the way you present music. Thank you so very much.
Thank you!
I am far from an expert on music theory, but I especially appreciated the description of the strategy of the chromatic descent from tonic to dominant. I will be listening for that in the future in music of that era.
Thanks
Thank you!
Thank you for this! Another insightful analysis!
As an amateur I struggled to learn this piece and play it at speed - my hands inevitably begin to cramp playing those arpeggios. But it is worth the effort so dramatic!
I lived the fortepiano version. But modern piano is certainly more powerful
Much obliged for this lesson
Exciting performance! The pianoforte sound so atmospheric.
In my younger musical life, I was constantly irritated by what I saw as unjustified liberties with tempo. Later as my exposure broadened, I came to realize that I have very strong ideas as to such liberties. One thing I enjoy about what I have heard from you so far is that you sensibilities as to tempo seem very congenial to my own. Thanks for the wonderful presentations, especially this one, where your passion for the subject is most apparent.
Your videos have been the perfect blend of music theory and an eased approach for me and people alike. I always learn something new, while perfectly understanding all your points - which is not guaranteed, given my (lack of) music education. Hearing about pieces outside their own frame while learning about details that make them masterpieces does wonders for me. Thank you!
(Also, thanks for including rendition on the intended instrument. Many pepole just don't consider technical aspects of compositions' time.)
Thank you!
When i first heard it i was surprised this was part of the same Moonlight Sonata as the first one.
Really excellent content. I really enjoy your videos as you can explain the pillars of classical music , yet why it is revolutionary at the same time. Beethoven also used these Baroque style ritornellos in the 1st movement Pathetique piano sonata { I think it's Op 13}
It was a very unusual thing (in the 1790s) to refer back to Baroque style like that.
I liked the video early on whilst Loki was keeping you company. I noticed the change when he left, but kept watching to the end. I don't mean to compain, but you never let him play the piano.
The 3rd movement is a lot of fun to play, but it's really challenging to perform well.
Loki says "I think we're going to need a bigger bed"
Yes, he doesn't like this one much.
“For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.”
"That's the way, ah ha ah ha, I like it "! I could never attempt to play it, but there's no doubting the energy, the vitality and the humanity of this piece of music.
New word! Passus Duriusculus! Which is also the harmonic basis for: Hushabye Mountain, Hotel California and Life on Mars (among much else).
Does anyone else out there think that the 3rd movement is a (wild) variation of the 1st movement? Plus other bits, of course. The chord structures match exactly for a good long while, but we've moved from an oceanic world of rising 3-note arpeggios to a rattling, hectic factory world of quarter and eighth note arpeggios.
Really interesting comment. Yes, the Passus Duriusculus occurs in all sorts of music! There's a wonderful example (complete with harpsichord!) in the chorus of Destiny's Child's 'Bills, Bills, Bills': ruclips.net/video/NiF6-0UTqtc/видео.htmlsi=H0pvp3QpiFz_jgUl (perhaps I ought to do a video about this!)
Well done! I really enjoyed the original forte piano with this piece.
20:39 I never noticed that similarity. No wonder I could sight read it on the second piece. On the fortepiano I could hear the double grace notes of the half notes more distinctly, due to the nature of the instrument.
The fortepiano is definitely a different sound. Makes you wonder what Beethoven or Mozart would make of modern pianos. I liked your version. 👍
Great finales - maybe Bartok?
Certainly.
Thank you once again Professor, great stuff! Beethoven certainly set a very high bar for future generations in so many aspects of composition, especially as you mentioned where finales are concerned. I remember Andras Schiff making a similar comment in his survey of the Beethoven sonatas in regards to how romantic composers following Beethoven struggled to bring home the goods with their finales. However, I do think some of Brahms's finales were as good as Beethoven's, notably the finale to his Piano Quintet in F minor Op. 34.
Oh absolutely. Brahms wrote some amazing finales (the 4th symphony for example!) Yes the F minor quintet is amazing. I think the point I was making was that Beethoven is very consistent at writing knockout finales. The only failure I can think of is his final piece: the substitute finale to his quartet Op. 130.
@@themusicprofessor Agreed, Beethoven was definitely in a class of his own that way.
To this day Loki never returned 😅😢😮
Did you know that the chord sequence at the beginning of the Waldstein sonata mirrors the same in the 'Climb every mountain' number from The Sound of Music?
Amazing! Now I can’t unhear it!
I like the recording a lot😊
Many thanks! In terms of dramatic presto minor-key finales, the nearest thing that came to my mind from earlier times was the finale of Haydn's B-minor H.XVI No.32.
The Prestissimo finale of Beethoven's 1st sonata in F minor has a similar fiery drama as well.
Yes, the finale of Haydn's B minor sonata is terrific. Also his C minor sonata has a wonderful finale.
Loved both the detailed explanation and the instrument. You referred to it (the performance, I assume) as an "unprepared piano" -- is that a tongue-in-cheek opposite of a chunk of John Cage's work? 😉 I really like a bit of fortepiano now and then, but it's a bit of an acquired taste.
"Unprepared performance" - I think I just meant I didn't practice beforehand! No Cageism intended on this occasion.
Marvelous thanks.
Fantastic, Sir!
2:35 Was that a fortepiano for forty minutes or a forty piano for forte minutes???
It's interesting how much variation in speed you have at various parts of the movement, and not just inthe cadenza-like passages, or where it's marked "Adagio"
According to Czerny, Beethoven himself employed a variety of tempi when he played his sonatas.
Excellent. Thank you!
Great discussion and elaboration as always. I am thinking Beethoven (and many composers of his and previous era) would enjoy his compositions much more with today's pianos and ...
Ludwig held Mozart in high regard. Ferdinand Ries, who was Beethoven's friend and student wrote: "Of all composers, Beethoven valued Mozart and Handel.
Yes, and he was acutely aware, all his life, that he was 'destined' to inherit Mozart's mantle. When he left Bonn for Vienna, in 1792, Count Waldstein wrote to him, “You will receive the spirit of Mozart from the hands of Haydn.”
Good performance
Nice Video
I really wish these piece wasn't so overplayed, so I could enjoy it properly! I've been aware of it since I was a child, and now I hear it everywhere, it's super exhausting. I think this video helps me to appreciate it more thoroughly, it really is a shame I can't listen to it casually anymore.
Just yesterday I came across and watched the previous 2 parts and thought it was a pity that the third one hasn't come out yet :)
About six months ago I heard the third part of the sonata for the first time and it is still my favorite song on the piano. But I like listening to it with a slower bpm
Interesting interpretation - very different from that with which I am familiar - I heard parts accented which I had not noticed before (I like that- very funky - like James Brown) - I do prefer the richer sound of a modern piano - bass register sounded like a guitar on fuzz peddle. excellent performance - thanks Doc.
Yes - it's fascinating to hear (and play) on the fortepiano.
Was the tuning on the fortepiano a bit off? But it's interesting how the lighter, looser bass really rings in this movement. Thanks!
It wasn't too bad but it hadn't been tuned prior to the recording
Even an in tune forte piano sounds out of tune if you play along on a modern one. Not sure why that is.
Great to see you Professor, again. What is the meaning of the 3d movement? p.s. Wonder if Mozart lived into the 19th century, where would his music evolve? Would he go the way of Beethoven with his "revolutionary", power-emotion-driven music into the end of pre-industrial age? May be this is why Mozart died; he was to transcend the mind and our human "progress". Thank you for another great class!
Who knows how Mozart's style might have evolved! That is a fascinating question. I don't know if we can define the meaning exactly but the sonata broadly moves from the dark, brooding poem of the slow first movement, through the moderate tempo dance of the 2nd movement into the ferocious, fast sonata. So it has a marvellous dramatic arc.
8:30 - this figure is also very Mozartian, found e.g. in his 20th Piano concerto, the A minor piano sonata, this is, I would argue, a violin/tutti orchestral figure employed to evoke an orchestral tutti and a way to reach a local culmination. I think it has a broader function in the Classical period other than to evoke Baroque seriousness.
Yes, Mozart's music does do this: these kinds of passage are examples of what some musicologists would refer to as 'learned style'.
Nicely explained!
Love your channel, Matthew! I have a question which I'd love for you to answer (or someone else in the comments section.)
Obviously Beethoven knew what he was doing and didn't need me to say "hey, you know I think I have a better idea for an ending than you do!"
But that said.... Immediately after the big Chopin-nicked run before the recap, my gut told me that the opening theme from the first movement should have been recapitulated instead of the ending Ludwig chose. Obviously I'm an idiot, but if you could... why would this sort of "referring to previous movements" concept be forbidden? Was this something that would never have occurred to Beethoven or was the FORM always the dictator of how a composition should be organized? (ie. You just would NEVER DO THAT!)
I think ending with the first movement main theme would have been amazing!!
But again... how many amazing Classical works am I famous for having composed??? Opus zero!
Interesting idea! I'd not thought of that possibility. I suspect in 1802 it would not have been viewed as a sort of violation of good practice: I think the idea would have been that thought the movements belonged together, they each brought their own individual character and material, and mixing them would have been frowned on. But Beethoven does this later in his career: the wonderful Op. 101 sonata brings back a 'quotation' of the opening just before the finale (and he does this in the 9th symphony too). Even in those pieces, it's a reference to the past that has to be put aside before the finale comes in. It's only later in the 19th century that Romanticism permits such things!
You said you couldn't think of anything like it from the 18th century. ( 11:36 ) Maybe you know another composer who used this rhythmic technique? I would be grateful if you could tell me the title of this composition :)
You see similar syncopated patterns in Mozart's famous D minor piano concerto K466 but Beethoven's use of syncopation is unusually funky for the period.
Sorry for being out of topic.. where is the shirt from? I really like it
Sadly I can't remember! I think I found it online.
Interestingly, Rudolph Westphal, in the afterword to his General Theory of Musical Rhythm Since J. S. Bach (Allgemeine Theorie der musikalischen Rhythmik seit J. S. Bach) from 1880, advises us to audibly separate (with an actual caesura) the first note of bars 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 from the following notes and give it an accent as climax of the preceding crescendo.
(We'd obviously need a much slower tempo to even try that effect out.)
I would argue that Westphal’s somewhat eccentric views on rhythm in the 1880s (derived from his reading of rhythms in Ancient Greek literature) don’t have much bearing on interpreting Beethoven. The marking is Presto
Agitato and Beethoven would have been aware of Mozart’s criticism of Clementi: “He marks a piece presto but plays only allegro.”
It would be interesting to hear how old Mozart was when he wrote the exuberant pieces (died very young) as opposed to Beethoven who might have been almost fully deaf at that comparison point.
Mozart was in his 20s when he wrote the finales to his A minor sonata and the C minor fantasia and sonata. When Beethoven composed the Moonlight Sonata, he was slightly older (31) but still young! And he'd composed an astonishing set of sonatas already by this time.
Do you have any recording/performer that you like particularly for this sonata?
There are so many!
@@themusicprofessor yes it’s true
20:30 I actually noticed the Chopin influence as well early on
I really like your bookcases apothecary furniture. I wonder what you store in there.
Lots of things!
@@themusicprofessor hahaha. You should make an episode about it and explain what is its original use and what do you use it for.
The fortepiano is not as pretty as the modern version... but I liked it!
You have maybe heard this one allready, but it really whips up the mood in this movement. ruclips.net/video/84JSGMrrHpI/видео.html
And as always, thank you for the analysis. Beethoven has been in my life since I was 6 - 7 years. Now at 61, he's the classical composer I always come back to.
Scarlatti’s K 141 is ferocious but not a finale.
I think it’s cool of hearing it on its original intended instrument but I do not like the sound of it. The notes don’t ring or sound full and the low F# sounds very weak and dull. Spoiled by modern pianos I guess for a thunderous piece such as this.
I love a good Beethoven finale, but feel a bit shortchanged by the Rondo that ends the Pathetique. And though I love the last movement of the Archduke, it seems merely happy, and not a satisfying resolution of the earlier movements complexities and mysteries.
Interesting. The Pathetique Rondo is more of an 18th century conception of a finale: a lighter movement than its predecessors, but it has wonderful invention and highly ingenious elaboration of material from the previous movements (I will do a video about this at some point!) The finale of the Archduke is wonderful: lyrical and poetic as well as happy. I think Brahms may have had it in mind when he composed the finale of his 2nd piano concerto in the same key, but his finale is a bit too light.
Thanks for these points - and indeed, all your videos. Hugely illuminating. I was particularly fascinated by the connection with Chopin's Polonaise Fantasy!
U can play falling 5ths with that scale.
What is the name of this scale: whhhwhhhwhhhw... ? Whole and Half tones. Try start at D. It's nice repeating tension... Not a church mode
🙏
I wish I could see you playing the piano forte....not something commonly available.
The 3rd movement is a hysterical hodgepodge. Intolerable to listen to. I came for the insights shared by the professor, which are the best you'll find on YT.
Are you talking about the piece itself or his performance?
@@declandougan7243 The piece itself, but I think he does seem overly agitated himself in this episode. Even the dogs opted out!
@@tomsrensen9382How do you have any fun if not even beethoven meets your standards? Have you ever even composed any sonatas?
Hysterical, yes...but "intolerable to listen to"??? No way do I agree with that, nor the idea that it is in any way "hodgepodge"...I think Matthew explains that it is structured brilliantly and is in fact, a profound summation of the entire sonata...let alone the fact that it is revolutionary in terms of what it expresses...he invented Heavy Metal in 1801!!!
@@declandougan7243 Even giving it the Glenn Gould treatment doesn't work, imo. No amount of slamming the piano can compensate for Beethoven's inferior 3rd movement material; he simply had a bad day at the office. No, I haven't composed a sonata.
This sonata is based loosely on sonata form; taking liberties and calling it a semi-fantasy.
It seems like a fantasy because of its wild character. I would say the handling of sonata form is actually very disciplined.
Intellectual gibberish. You ought to pay me to listen to your madness.
Cheers
The fortepiano seems a bit dull, hollow, less depth and richness, and not finely tuned ... like what's supposed to be a fine wine that you're hoping will finish with lingering complexity but disappoints and fades prematurely.