The Taubman Approach to Beethoven Moonlight Sonata 'Presto agitato' | Robert Durso and Ben Laude
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Taubman Master Classes: app.tonebase.co/piano/home?tb...
0:00 Intro sequence
0:15 The case against practicing in rhythms
3:39 Shaping under or shaping over?
7:10 Elbow position and how to avoid twisting
10:01 Fingering and the high points of movement
13:35 Rotation in broken intervals
18:28 We’re not taught to analyze music technically
Pianists of all backgrounds and ability levels are drawn to the 'Moonlight Sonata,' but only a few venture past the slow first movement and brave the presto third movement.
In this master class, co-founder of the Golandsky Institute Robert Durso works with Ben Laude on choreographing the turbulent right-hand figurations, showing how Dorothy Taubman's concepts of shaping, in-and-out motions, and the walking hand and arm can facilitate the awkward arpeggios and broken interval passages that define the piece's technical landscape.
For more on the Taubman Approach, visit: www.golandskyinstitute.org/
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Ben is great in these: ego out of the way, just here like an enthusiastic beginner. Lots to learn from this little clip.
Exactly
As a beginner player, it's so reassuring to see Ben so open and with child like wonder to and to accept we are all still learning❤❤❤❤
This has to be one of the most valuable piano pedagogy channels on youtube along with Paul Barton, Shijun Wang, and Josh Wright's content.
Danae Dorken too
Also new is greg niemczuk (i probably spelled his last Name wrong but you will still find him)
He is the best on yt for chopin
And cedarvillemusic
@@nehath123 yeah love his chopin lectures
Denis Zhdanov is also great
When my teacher was injured, he discovered the Taubman approach, and I was lucky enough to learn it 23 years ago. When I was injured practicing cello with a terrible prognosis, I fell back on Taubman techniques - rotation, arm weight, minimizing finger power unless necessary.
Not only did they help bring me back to cello years later, but I can play this mov’t again, some Liszt and Brahms. I cannot thank Dorothy Taubman enough.
The Taubman work is brilliant. The concepts really need to be part of main stream piano teaching. And Robert Durso gave a heck of a class here.
Robert Durso shows the sensitivity of a great teacher.
I studied Exercise Science at university (Rehabilitation and Movement) and within the field it is so common to look at the biomechanics of sports movement, daily living, and even dance which is incredibly artistic as well as being athletic. But i have been quite surprised to learn that musicians and musicianship are almost completely separated from this field of study. Music playing is as much a sport as it is an artistic expression, like dance or even figure skating.
I grew up playing the flute and some piano, and have returned to these beautiful activities later in life. As my mind has been formed to look at movement often in relationship to biomechanics, injury prevention, and efficient movement, i've been frustrated to see that the standard principles of form and technique are usually a one-size-fits-all approach. This should not be the case, even when following the natural laws of body movement regarding piano playing, for example. This video is a wonderful demonstration of how you can maintain those universal laws of movement while still considering the particular build of the student. It also shows the direct relationship of good biomechanics (technique appropriate for the human body) to a beautiful, injury free performance. Well done and thank you for these videos!
piano is a sport fr lol, i remember seeing a comment about tristesse not being so hard to play the main requirement being athleticism for the hardest passage and i did a double take lol but its entirely true, hand athleticism
It is amazing what a sport Ben is here. He's obviously a very accomplished pianist and teacher in his own right, but he's playing the pupil so that we can learn about the Taubman method. How generous he is doing so. Thanks to both of you.
pleeease give us more videos of prof. Durso, the taubman technique has to become more widely known and Durso teaches it so well.
Ben, it is truly an excellent lesson and a line of improvement and knowledge of the piano by mr. Robert Durso, he knows very well how the piano works and the topography of the keyboard and the natural movements of the hand, fingers and body including de pedal that must be acquired. I am a concert pianist trained in Hungary (Franz Liszt Superior School of Music) with the so-called Russian technique, believe me, your worst enemy is yourself, you have super-accelerated thinking that does not give the brain or the body time to "learn" the gestures and your self-audition to improve your technique, I warmly recommend this pianist and pedagogue who is undoubtedly a great professional. I hope you do not misunderstand my words, there is no kind of being aggressive with you or disrespectful. Thanks for reading me.
I went to a Taubman/Golandsky teacher about 15 years ago and while I only took lessons for about a year, I have always wondered why their methods haven't caught on more quickly. It’s logical and focused on creating injury-free playing. Makes me happy to see it get some attention here.
Me too! The taubman approach saved my piano playing!
My thoughts exactly! I just commented thus above. How can they not catch on?! I suppose it's the old guard guarding tradition or something like that.
@@mypianotutorial2023 and mine as well...
what exactly is the taubman method
im intermediate im learning nocturne 55 right now i can play it with decent musicality
is it more for advanced players
Damn, I've been on forums that make fun of the Taubman videos on RUclips, but this really seems like logical and helpful advice. The problem is that not every Taubman teacher is Robert Durso. I'd love to take lessons with someone who could improve my hand coordination using this very logical, integrated system.
First off, I very much agree that this video is more elucidating than what I've seen from Taubman so far.
I've been teaching myself Taubman for 3 months now, with just their YT videos and Therese Milanovic's master thesis on it, and it's been both a HUGE struggle and at the same time improved my technique hunderfold. I was literally hard-stuck before I discovered it.
My review of Taubman after 3 months would be that the people criticizing it really just don't get it, but at the same time I understand very well why they don't get it - piano playing's just that complex and this video actually does a better job than most of what I've been using 😅
Agreed! This is why we made a whole course on the principles of the Taubman Approach with Bob (Durso) on the tonebase platform, to help clarify the way movements integrate into a unified playing mechanism.
I am a 45y old piano 'apprentice' , now in my fifth year playing and studying in our local music academy. For the first 2 year I suffered from extreme flying pinkie syndrome :p My teacher , who I really love as a teacher, always told me that I had to relax while playing. Well, thats easier said than done... just.. relax..... Later I discovered The taubman dvd series on the internet and for me it was a life changer!! After 3 weeks my pinkies staid down. It just was because of my fingers wernt properly alligned when stroking the key , and it caused lots of tension. I am still in the beginning of my playing journey but whenever I have difficulties with, stretchy parts , or leaps , or long passages,etc.. , i trie to applie what I learned. So I stopped holding on to notes , even if the score sais legato, to avoid tension. My long note passages are really getting better because of better grouping, my scales have improved lots by applying rotation and in and out, and so on.... what taubmann is 'preaching' is as logical as math. its all about fysics and trying to produce the best, with the least ammount of movement and effort. I am so glad I 'discoverded' this and I would recommend al beginner pianists to have a look at it! 😁
@@douwemusic I don't think this video makes much sense without understanding the Taubman fundamentals first. I watched this before fully understanding the technique and thus didn't fully understand everything in this video.
I think the real problem with learning the Taubman technique is that there's almost no organized step by step lesson of every aspect of the fundamental principles that one could find for free. BUT I finally was able to find this video: ruclips.net/video/ci0_pDMgtsk/видео.html which is Robert in a zoom stream and he actually goes through all the principles step by step, with both a side camera and an overhead camera. After digesting everything in that video, coming back to this video I now understand it fully
I am searching for Taubman videos and this is the first good one I've seen. But, question is, this just seems like common sense really. How can everyone else be doing something else? I mean why would they torture themselves? Also, is Cortot similar to this? I found some fingering of his and that's what started a lightbulb. It was a chromatic descending using 4-5-4-5 that required what I know see was perhaps an in-out-in-out, and though it seemed crazy, it felt great. Or am I way off track here?
Finally! Some sensible and useful instruction on linking musical demands to a physical gesture. More, please!
D'accord! Yes! More, please!!!!
It’s 10 years I’ve been using the Taubman approach after 30 years of finger lifting, stretching and complete absence of direction. I must say it’s a pity this technique doesn’t get the attention it deserves. After even 10 years, I still have to remind myself that there is a whole arm there to aid in my playing! If only this technique had been taught to me right from the beginning!
As a former towed student it’s so wonderful to see these concepts in this lesson
Taubman student sorry for the typo
More Taubman stuff please!!!
I am not a pianist, only an enthusiastic piano player. Thank you for sharing. Learned a lot. Eye opening. Only small changes in holding your hand can bring miracles.
Love Dorothy and Edna - thank God for all the other amazing pedagogues!
i love the word "notice" in this .....AND I love how the other guy challenges the idea of practicing in varied rhythms.... great video ....
That’s an very valuable video. The instructions Rob gives are high level piano playing. Simply great and extremely helpful.
Congratulations Mr Durso! I am a concert pianist, well, (I went because I was already retired) and this video posted by you seemed excellent to me, you know very well how the technique works, sorry, the techniques, which requires a good knowledge of the keyboard, of the body , fingers, wrist, arms etc, etc... and good practice for studying. I was based in the Franz Liszt Conservatory of Music in Budapest (Hungary) and I was lucky enough to work with my piano teachers who followed the so-called "Russian" technique, which is very much in line with what you recommend. Thank you very much for reading and congratulations once again.
That moment when Ben discovered that his fingers are a part of his hand. Bravo!
This lesson blew my mind as I discovered it after starting to learn this about a week ago, and struggling to do the opening without a ton of tension and fatigue. Thank you for this
It may be useful to check out the Taubman Approach itself also, that's a mind blower as well...
@@kovacsdaniel7356 I never followed up with it beyond this piece, but I think it's time to take more lessons, I havent had any in a few years and as I age, this type of approach seems more and more valuable
This is a wonderful video, both on how to teach and how to be a non-defensive student and be open to suggestion.
Find this randomly
I've ended music school and i wanna say: it's looks the same as teacher in music school teached me.
Never seen so good teaching video on YT, it's really very valuable.
So great to hear these thoughts expressed outloud!
Both teachers are exceptional! Thank you both. Very valuable
Great lessons from each participant. Wonderful, priceless (literally free), and vast information!
An excellent analysis and approach. I shall be experimenting with some of this advice tomorrow on this same piece.
Amazing video ...loved every minute of it. Thankyou very much for sharing.
Can't believe these guys are talking about playing the piano the way I think about it. Never knew that I was not alone in thinking this.
Awesome as usual !!
I found this enormously helpful. Thank you
Wow, what an excellent lesson and what an amazing teacher! I enjoyed every second and it inspired me to reconnect with both my body and my piano.
Fascinating!
Absolutely fascinating!!!
Such an intellectual lesson!
Throwing the thumb in during practice is what helps me to keep a faster transition in between. Having said that I’m still only about 70% speed but this is super valuable info! Thank you both.
What an amazing and helpful discussion! Mille et une remerciemments!
Wonderful . Just wonderful . Thank you so much
Amazing to watch.
Perfect lesson. Probably worth 3 times as much as would have been asked for (knowing this is a free lesson).
Thaaaaaanks!!! my fingers are back to my hands, after trying these excellent suggestions!
I don’t even play and this was a very interesting video. It makes me look so much different at those that do play.
This is such a valuable video on piano pedagogy! Would be interesting to have Taubman tutors here in my country.
MORE OF THIS!
Great stuff indeed!
Amazing! Thank you
Fascinating.
This is both fascinating and inspiring. I'm pulling out the keyboard and learning Presto Agitato! Been wanting to for a while... should be an interesting endeavor, as a highly novice, few finger, key picker! Lol. But i don't care if I don't play any other piece in my life, as long as i can play Presto Agitato like Valentina Lisitsa! Here we go!
THIS IS GREAT!!!
Great lesson
Great video
"Bob! My fingers are part of my hand!?" LOL @15:00 I choked on water!
Very informative!
Thank you for letting this be an in-depth conversation and view into more advanced applications of the taubman work. I often get sick of the cursory or surface-level treatment RUclips videos give. This video reveals the truth and meat of it.
I am not surprised Bernstein disagrees with the approach. Ha!
more of these!!! every week!
Wow mind blown!!!!!
Brilliant. Thx gents
Wonderful
Tonebase thank you for upploading this amazing lessons 🤩
Keep them coming 🤗
Thank you kindly🤍
Brilliant
The first time I have heard professionals get enthusiastic about the Moonlight Sonata
Thank you
Haha, 11 days ago I responded to a video of yours recommending a commenter to check out the Taubman approach because it has helped me tremendously in a very short time. Coincidence? Anyhow, I'm very glad it's finally getting some love and attention because it's misunderstood (and underrepresented) everywhere! And the way you approach piano technique and Taubman in this video is an especially clear one
Muito bom! 🎹👏🏽
I love this. So many things to learn.
I'm glad to hear Tonebase finally get a good piano sound in one of their videos. I'd recommend using this recording session as a template to improve your ongoing videos. I enjoyed the Mok class on Ravel's Pavane but the piano recording sound is terrible.
This was the best video of the Taubman technique I've seen so far. All the others have such a poor camera angle that I have no idea what the fingers etc. are doing. I wish all the videos were like this. The other thing is, these techniques seem so easy, why are they not the norm? Or are they and I missed something. Are all piano students being taught this way now and the these videos are only from older students who had poor habits ingrained?
I like this.
I don't play piano yet, but this video taught me that my fingers are part of my hand .
Very interesting.
Dear colleagues, my deepest admiration for the brilliance of your playing and the means you express that results in brilliance and speed. But as your admirers, the very opening does nothing to answer the question because neither of you considered what I believe is requisite number one for studying music, and that is what is it's feeling and are we following the compoer's requirements. You see the final movement is marked piano. Your approaches can never arrive at piano unless you discuss major changes in the muscular condition of the arms and body plus other choreographic adjustments. Remember, there are no muscles in the fingers of our hands. There are only tendons and ligaments.
Seymour Bernstein.
Even after so much telling the shirt guy still had a right crooked hand. He needs to make it parallel to the keyboard (as according to Taubman) but he doesn't. For 10 years, I played the piano and organ like everyone else then I played as taught by Taubman and also discovered the keyboard by myself more and more. Now, I am quite at the top at playing piano.
🤔And why I have never heard any great pianists ever mention things like this in the masterclass?
Do they assume that we all have the supreme techniques that can be adjusted fluently like the winking eyes. 😉
And wow!!! Your sound has changed!!! Congratulations!!🎉🎊
I think taubman is controversial idk
Excellent, excellent, excellent! I mean, if I’m going to be up all night from insomnia anyway, might as well become a better pianist while I’m at it. Subscribing.
Wow!
I really need to learn this….
#moretaubman
Would LOVE a tutorial on how to connect the last measures of the exposition back to the beginning. Two awkward jumps in a row that only a rubato seems to make possible
Many thanks for this great lesson 🙂
Is there any chance you might do a video about Peter Feuchtwanger?
Checkpoints! Yes
Golden calf classical music
Lifesaver,,,thank you.
Is their more video of the last movement on the website?
Not with Robert Durso. We looked at passages from other pieces, and this was all the work we did on the Moonlight. However, we have a lesson on the full piece taught by John O'Conor on our site: app.tonebase.co/piano/home?tbModal=courseModal&tbModalSlug=john-oconor-teaches-beethoven-moonlight-sonata
Great insights on technique, definitely need more of this in lessons. My only gripe is the opening, it’s too loud! Should be piano.. with the pedal only used on the sforzando hits!!
WOW, talk about almost instant improvement! No offense to Ben, but when he started it was something of a hot mess. He caught on very quickly and the result was striking. Such a valuable lesson, I think that I will go learn the piece myself…
I started to practice this masterpiece 🎉❤ so happy to watch the progress how can i improve the allegro version.
These videos are mostly watched by ADULTS-NON-BEGINNERS! It is NOT easy for someone who's been on a piano journey for over 10 years TO GO BACK TO SQUAR ONE and start correcting things. As I've been struggling with CHOPIN'S WATERFALL I can now easily see WHY this has been the case. But THAT AWARENESS in and of itself DOES NOT result in an OVERALL CORRECTION of all the wrongs in my approach to this monster challenge: OLD HABITS DIE HARD, they say. And so I will do my very best to try to incorporate some of your suggestions which indeed happen to be VERY REVEALING(concentrate on finger 3 instead of finger 5; go UP till finger 3 and then DOWN after finger 3). But boy o boy: it's gonna be real hard to correct other mistakes already GRAINED IN.......I'll leave it there.....Thanks Anyway!!
To BEN? The student... I get it. I understand how your break it down.. Mentally see it, slowly see it, shape of it. I get it because this is how I learn a new piece. Everyone learns differently .. it is the outcome after all. 🙂. In addition your teacher has added value & correction... But you have already figured out the mechanics so any further help .. adds polish.
Revisiting this piece this past week. Envy the speed and understand the emphasis here is on technique but, musically, all is lost if the dynamics are forte to fortissimo. It's actually a good deal more challenging technically to play this opening (and subsequent repetitions) piano, so that the chords crash in rather than being a continuation/crescendo. Even the repetitions begin with an fp. It works just about right when the total sound energy of the whole race up the keyboard is just equaled in the explosion of the two chords - great power that was submerged suddenly emerges. And there are other places where dynamic restraint is necessary or the essence is lost.
That's exactly the beauty of this method. When you start applying movements that make sense and actually facilitate the fingers to do their job more naturally, then your mind can be at ease and concentrate on things like expression and dynamics. It's a win-win!
Can you do a video when you show Tubman approach to the tempest sonata 1° mov?
Good videos..
I'd like the idea of Ben who I think studied in Juliard ? ...can still learn ...and we all can..
Pick up all the good things..
I had one very good teacher but it was difficult to change the way I played..
But surprisingly some classical aspects are seen in my non classical playing.
Absolutely great.
Interesting stuff. But I was hoping to get input on how to do the octave trill (the f+ in bar 32, b# in bar 127), ideally without pedal, and holding the thumb down. This is my big blindspot in this sonata.
Nevertheless, this was interesting and entertaining, and I hope to see more videos like this!
Even slowed down it's still difficult for us mortals. To replicate a genius is hard to say the least.
My ukrainian teacher taught me the same, but she definitely wasn't familiar with the Taubman approach. Seems like it's just a natural way of playing.
I grew up hearing Richters recording of this, which was fantastic. I actually feel both these approaches are missing the point, because they are over-thinking the detail: the gesture begins on the first semiquaver and ends on the first RH chord. Thats what you need to understand primarily. The most important lesson you can learn about the piano music of and pianist/composer is that they don't write using 'notes' they write using gestures, some of them are short some of them are very long, this is especially true of Beethoven.
Boy this durso guy is pretty good...
I am so greatful for the internet. We are all getting free lessons that would cost someone thousands of dollars before.
Please show to descend in Chopin first etude .Ascending is easy if arm and body move laterally .
Wow...I just learned a lifetime of technique in 15 mins....