BURSTING into flames seconds after takeoff - British Airways 268
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- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2023
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February 20th, 2005
Seconds after taking off from Los Angeles, a fire erupts in the engine of a British Airways Boeing 747 carrying over 350 passengers. But incredibly, the pilots don’t return to the airport. Instead, they decide to continue their journey to London - a decision which would soon lead to more problems. This is the controversial story of British Airways flight 268.
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Final report: assets.publishing.service.gov...
Music licensed through Epidemic Sound
Stock footage via Storyblocks
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hello
As a nervous flyer and nervous relative of those who are flying.
.
Forgetting something like a flameout or firey sputter and *going to sleep* would NEVER be possible for me.
Is this really what's become of my beloved Star Trek? It's being used to sell a fucking Raid: Shadow Legends rip-off now?
@@StevenOBrienyes
flawless ad transition there haha
It still kind of amazes me that machines as huge and heavy as modern commercial aircraft ever manage to get off the ground at all!
I know, right? Sometimes, when I fly, I look at people sitting around me, flight attendants passing through, everything being calm on board, and then remember that I'm sitting in a MASSIVE metal carcass that is being held in the air purely by air itself - and while I understand how that makes sense, my caveman self can't help but think that aint no fucking way this is happening. Yet it does.
You should research what it took to get the 747 airborne.
@@samuraiwarriorsunite can you be a little more specific? depending on who you ask, it took the entire history of aviation to get the 747 airborne...
@@Wziafzit takes more than 2 engines for a 747 to takeoff. It might be able to fly on 2 engines but it’s not able to take off with just 2 engines
What about the super guppys Or other guppys. Those aircraft look like they definitely would not fly.
The idea that you can safely just continue after an engine failure is kinda badass.
Yeah. Now that 4 engine planes have mostly gone away, that's not really a thing anymore.
@@HammondOfTexas0 there are still a bunch in service, they're just not being produced anymore.
Although during the plandemic we didn't see many airborne.
@@HammondOfTexas0 This case shows very well the superiority of a 4 engines airliner over a twin jet : REDUNDANCY.
@@julosx And I recently flew on a British Airways A350 from Las Vegas to Heathrow. Probably the smoothest aircraft I've flown on. And quiet. I flew out from Heathrow on a 777. In both cases, crossing the Atlantic, it never even crossed my mind that both of them are twin jet. Jet engines are incredibly reliable now.
I was on the British Airways flight 268. I was so scared when the captain informed us. I was heading back to Germany from holiday in Los Angeles.
Edit: I really was on this plane so please stop doubting my experience. Btw there is no problem with going on holiday to Los Angeles.
Wow, that's crazy. I bet that was a nerve-wracking flight across the pond.
True i was the captain
(Messing around)
My dog was a flight attendant
yeah and i was the first officer
@SteviPantyhose-mt5lm who hurt you 💀
Ive been following you for years, and I want to congratulate you on your progression over the years. You are without a doubt the best RUclips channel that is producing aviation accident related content.
GDA was the first channel I started watching about aviation incidents, accidents, etc over the past year and their videos are very topnotch. The pace of storytelling/narration (and/or highlighting a potentially specific scenario) is where this channel excels, whereas Mentour Pilot tends to lean more toward the very technical specifications of an event, seeing he is an airline pilot. Both are great channels overall in terms of aviation
I wonder if you have come across Juan Browne (channel name 'Blancolirio').
Since you mentioned that you have only just started watching such videos in the past three years.
You mentioned that Green Dot Aviation was the first such channel you saw , right?
That is why I assumes that on youtube.. you started recently.
.
Green Dot Aviation only started in October 2021.
extra L bozo points for being so grammatically correct and succient to just miss the mark entirely. who cares if they're new to the niche - as large as it is, air disaster still is quite branched away from the main vein of history.
U trying to shame them for some goofy reason for getting into their journey a little farther later than some others is just the entirely wrong plan there dawg
just being real with u@@sailaab
I like mentour pilot just as much, but it feels too unpersonal like you're reading the report, GDA also gives very detailed info and talks about psychological things and all the details from the reports as well. But here the difference is the atmosphere, the soundtrack, the serious tone and also that ''here's where things got fucked up'' moment is always great to watch. The thing is people like to learn, they just don't like being bored out. Also the visuals here are more interesting to me even though they use the same simulators idk why@@SolidAvenger1290
Him and mentour pilot are definitely tied for best.
The ironic thing is that the 300k fuel dump was dwarfed by the extensive engine damage suffered by a windmilling RB211-524G for over 11 hours with minimal oil pressure. All bearings needed replacement and there was deep scoring to both the IP and HP shafts. There’s a reason Qantas removed the fan blades and puts a nose cone on the RB211 when transporting on the 5th pylon.
Interesting. The moral of the story is that we should worry more about the money.
I worked for Qantas from 1995 to 2001 and spent 6 months in the V Pod (5th pod) section.
It wasn't just Qantas that removed fan blades for 5th Pod transport, it was standard maintenance manual procedure for all airlines. 🇦🇺
@@johno9507Google implies only Qantas ever used (or even had) the 5th pod? Is that not true?
Doesn't windmilling make much oil pressure ? surprised at that I would have thought it would have , you live n learn , can crew still monitor engine oil pressure / rpm on the shutdown engine ?
Did you get involved with the inspection of this engine , not questing your knowledge just interested
so what if I risk my own life and 300 other peolpe's? what matters is taht I save money for the company
Green Dot is on an absolute roll in 2023. You're killing it man.
I'm glad the youtube algorithm is boosting his channel. He got me into aviation.
The detail you go into week in week out. Your passion really shines through. Congrats on the success.
Thank you! Many more videos coming over the next year and beyond 🚀
I couldn´t agree more, this is the benchmark aviation channel!
@@GreenDotAviation Do MU5735 soon 🎉
Scheduling a stop over somewhere on the East Coast is what my gut feeling was telling me at the beginning of this video.
Making a stop in ~Boston would have allowed for a bunch of diversions in case of an acute emergency, minimized the amount of fuel needing to be dumped and would have allowed for the airline to make further plans while also bringing the passengers closer to their destination.
I mean the plane could have made it all the way to London if they wanted, diverting to Manchester out of safety concern seemed like the best call. Minimal risk and puts passengers very close to destination, close enough that a rail ticket could've covered the rest of the distance.
@@pax6833hell they could’ve diverted in my country (Scotland) to Glasgow as their airport is more than equipped for an emergency and you can also get a rail ticket from Glasgow to London, or if they felt they needed to land a little sooner maybe Ireland. Can’t really do the railway ticket from Ireland tho, I don’t think trains can float
@@ZombieSazzathey can levitate tho
Regardless of Scotland or Ireland, it still exposes the aircraft to flying across the Atlantic on three engines.
should have just bought tickets on Titanic back to Southampton
You and Mentour Pilot are HANDS DOWN the best aviation channels.
Mentour pilot = professional, educational
Green Dot Aviation = professional storytelling, thriller
Disaster Breakdown is just as good if not better.
@@tolufapohunda3420 I was just thinking the same thing definitely up there with these guys! All work hard to make the topic understandable to civilian non aeronautic folks.
@@tolufapohunda3420as a lay person and a someone with limited travel experience these three have me HOOKED
TFC was the BEST flight channel imo but it fell off hard fr
Ive been clean from drink and drugs now for just over 8 years. Like everyone i have good and bad days. And on bad days, i usually stick one of your videos on, even if its just in the background and it really makes me feel like i have a friend in the room. So, if you are every wondering if you make a difference, just remember that you, amongst others, really do save peoples lives. Thankyou and keep up the amazing work!! X
Nicely done, when you breakaway from an old habit, after a certain time the new way becomes easier and easier and eventually becomes part of you, keep it up though dont let even a spec of the old way come back
Any questions about aviation, just ask. There are plenty of guys in the comment section to help with the complex world of aviation.
Well done for being clean. It's not only your own life that you have improved. All those around you have a better life too.
can you explain how you feel after 8 years? i dont have any addictions, but it‘s unfathomable how one feels after years not touching anything. i can easily not consume anything for weeks or months and not feel bad about it. havent had a drink in 6 months because there was not worthy opportunity, so i am really curious. and what triggers bad days for you?
You’re an inspiration
@@jfoetidnwo56I wonder what it feels like to be able to not touch drugs or alcohol for weeks at a time and have no issue with it
production, editing, information and general style has improved soo much recently which is hard to believe because this channel was already top notch but wow the improvements have been insane
I live for these videos dude, incredibly comprehensive
Same here. I'm addicted.
Me too ✈️🛫
I’ve witnessed an engine surge on a 757 (29th April 2007 at MAN) as I was in the terminal when it happened and I cannot explain quite how LOUD it is! It sounded like the world was ending. Those passengers on the 747 in this video must’ve been utterly terrified
I work in an industrial gas turbine test bay, our engines are much smaller than those found on commercial airliners but when they surge, they sound like thunder and the whole building shakes!
Absolutely cannot wait for you to hit 1m. you more than deserve it. this is absolute quality content vid after vid with such a consistent upload schedule. Please take breaks and don't burn out trying to do too much. You are amazing
Youre amazing too
Why do your videos never disappoint me? The amount of effort u put into these videos is... INSANE! Not only do you tell us what happened in extreme detail but also recreate the crash in full detail! So much effort must be made to get every second right or nearly correct. I love these videos so much. Merry Xmas to you all!
-Edit for some reason Grammarly screwed up the part about me saying recreate crash in full detail and said pay or something sorry abt that!!!
Nothing better to make my Christmas even more perfect than a green dot aviation upload where everyone goes home to their families
You need to get out more ..
@@arturo468 that’s a really big assumption based off so little info
Since you know me so well, what’s my daily routine like
@@arturo468 your names arturo? Oh you’re a bean? Oh bro, you’re barely a person, I’m not gonna get into it with someone with refried bean iq, disregard the last comment taco bender
I remember this one. FYI, when they were trying to get the engine working again, it was still running. They had not yet shut it off. It was just at idle. Standard procedure for a compressor stall
And even now the lim/surge/stall checklist doesn’t tell the pilots to land at the nearest suitable airport following a compressor stall or surge when the engine is running at idle.
@@EdOeuna Leaving the engine at idle or just above, may have been an option. However, with any faulty engine their may be a fuel leak.
The irony of Boeing accusing anybody of "operating an aircraft in an unsafe manner"... The cheek!
Something crazy to think about is that a relatively modern 747 needs to lose 3 engines before it can't hold altitude.
Not really.
Heavy (pax + cargo + fuel) and in cruise flight at high altitude? Or in a landing configuration, even when well below maximum landing weight? Nope. Not gonna happen, even at max takeoff power setting.
You can reduce descent rate and hopefully make a safe landing, sure, but a cruise flight or a go-around are out of the question.
Not true. At the optimum cruising altitude (for a given weight), you will have to reduce altitude if a single engine fails.
Depends on the weight and conditions
Not correct I’m afraid. Any multi engine aircraft will not be able to maintain its optimal all engine cruise altitude after an engine failure. On the 78 that i currently fly, we will often have to come down to below 25,000ft after an engine failure - not surprising, as we’ve just lost half of our available power.
The 744 faired better, as we would only be losing 25% of our power with a single failure.
The 74 could fly on two engines, and we often practiced this - we could even go-around from an approach if the decision was made early enough, as we would have to accelerate down the approach and raise gear and some flap still on the way down to have the energy to go-around (quite a bizarre but entertaining procedure when in the sim - I don’t imagine it’d be quite as much fun doing it for real).
Down to one donk - it’s going to basically take you to the scene of the crash! You may be able to stay airborne for a while, if you’re very light - but if you’re very light you probably haven’t got much fuel left - so unless you’re very lucky to be pretty much overhead a suitable airfield all you’d be able to do is minimise the wreckage. (It is always possible, given enough altitude, to glide in somewhere, and a single engine would certainly extend your range - but it’s not going to keep you airborne indefinitely - the best thing about having at least one engine, is that you’d have hydraulics and electrics, so some semblance of control).
@phil_nicholls well it was tried in a simulator with one inside engine and yes it could maintain flight for as long as there was fuel. So you are wrong
What isn’t mentioned is the pilots had the option to divert to Keflavik in Iceland incase of further engine problems so this was pretty safely planned
Yes or... the elephant in the room (given our narrator): Ireland has a few airports. They could have landed at Shannon or Dublin, refuelled and gone on to LHR. What's that all about? Unexplained.
Look at the flight path, Keflavik is probably way north and would be about equidistant to Dublin or the UK.
not worth it, would rather crash than land in ireland@@MikeRodent
@@MikeRodentThe aircraft wouldn't have been allowed to take-off on only 3 engines. The passengers would need to change to a replacement aircraft to get them to LHR.
Yes, the first sensible comment that I have seen in the last hour. Why not make a crisis out of a drama for extra likes....
It was safe to continue.
The pilots had plenty of places to divert to on the US east coast.
Then Keflavik, Shannon, and several in the UK.
There’s so much content at the internet it’s overwhelming but the good thing about it is that you sometimes find gems like this channel. Great production! Bravo.
Thank you for making videos about aircraft incidents and not just fatal accidents. I've learned a lot from your channel.
This channel got me into aviation but no other channels I try come even close to these videos. Lovely voice, very informative, excellent music choice for dramatic moments, and I love the reassuring conclusions and explanations of the procedures that follow. I've watched and rewatched all your videos!
feel free to try mentour aviation since peter goes even more in depth than this
Mentour Pilot is an excellent channel also.
Hey Green Dot I'm an ex-military ATC and between you and VAS Aviation your content is phenomenal! Keep up the good work and keep that altimeter at 29.92.
Phew, it's relieving and a fresh change that the stricken plane landed safely and with relatively little drama for once.
Can I just say that your scripts are impeccably written. Very engaging and succinct. It’s a very rare ability to be able to write a script as clean and crisp as yours. Thank you!
Thank you! I work hard at them
I started getting into aviation earlier this year, and you've become one of my favourite aviation channels
I love how green dot covers all the lesser known incidents
Continue your excellent work 😊😊
Man, you kept me gripped for 20 minutes before we find out that nothing really happened to the plane. Still good though. Loved the video
This channel really hit the ground running, amazing content just one after another. Thank you to you and your team, I love this channel
I love your videos. As an aviation enthusiast, the incredible detail and commentary is unsurpassed. It makes other videos without narration look amateur.
Cuz they are ;)
I've gone over this event many times, I still think its the best decision on the day and quite impressed.
However I do see the hassle it caused and the effect on perception by those that may not understand.
In hindsight probably diverting to a airport like Boston or JFK would be the best bet with lots of opportunity to get the passengers on their way.
Well Done BAW.
It can’t have been the best decision because the airline got into trouble because of it, and policy for 4 engine aircraft suffering a similar fate is to not continue.
The Airline didnt get in trouble. They didnt break any rules.
The FAA felt they may have in the early days,
They just all agreed that its not a good look to have gone across the Atlantic, But the decision wasnt breaking rules.
Yes, Now the airlines Policy maybe not to continue across but at the time the policy allowed the decision.
I also said bess decsion on the day, Now after the incident and the weighing up of how it looked the policy may well now be dont do it.
But On the day they didn't anything wrong
Now they would probably go to NYC.
Had it been coming from the East over asia and europe I think it would still happen and continue as much as they could in this situation.
Looking at it the FAA still says it can happen.
So landing short of your destination airport in a Mayday Fuel situation and almost on 2 engines in poor weather does not theoretically break any rules.
Your airmanship, common sense and professionalism is different from mine@@AirspotterUK
@@AirspotterUK The FAA were mainly concerned about British Airways not using the Boeing fuel transfer procedure.
Their point about passenger anxiety was not a problem. I doubt that the passengers had been told that one engine had been shut down.
The flight across the Atlantic, also has a list or alternate airports to the north.
A new GDA and on Christmas! I cant think of a better way to wind down this hectic holiday.
Thank you for this!!
After watching your 370 video I've binged all the others, love it! Production value has increased so much keep it up
Just wanted to say the change in production value on your channel is apparent! Went back and watched some of your older videos and you can tell. Not that they were bad, but the new ones are a whole other level of polished
For April Fools, it would be fun if you covered the plane crash scene from the beginning of Madagascar 2
wow again, amazing storytelling, just gotta love it, thanks for doing this story 🙂
You are providing monumental aviation stories, day in, day out, like it´s a walk in the park 😎
In the end, this ended so happily that I would never consider it an incident but a casual routine flight with an engine surge and fuel imbalance issue
I really appreceate you telling all these stories for us and recreating them in Microsoft Flight Simulator so realisticly, very well done!
Everything on this channel feels like a labour of love I can't wait to soak up each and every video when it drops! Thanks guys keep up the juicy content
I really don't understand why airlines are allowed to create their own safe operating procedures rather than use those of the engine/aircraft manufacturers.
Because they’re made in accordance with, and the scrutinised by the overseeing governing body. Neither Boeing, nor the CAA or FAA (in this case) had an issue with the guidelines set in place as part of the BA SOP
@@SloppySaladAirline aircraft operating standards ARE based on Boeing standards normally...
But this is BA ....their fuel management procedures were not standard..
As we're their engine shut down procedures..
They both had to be modified !!
Excellent stuff. Had me on the edge of my seat, even though I knew that it would end OK
I know little to nothing about aviation, but have been bingeing your videos. Excellent production and storytelling.
Green Dot Aviation is back!
Merry Christmas!
Thank you for making another guest appearance on Disaster Breakdown.
It'd be cool to have you as a guest-star on Mentour Pilot or as a voice-actor on the next Disney film.
I could literally watch these videos all day, so entertaining!! Keep it up man!❤
Once again a masterpiece video. Please don’t change the soundtrack of your videos. These tunes are signatures to your videos. Simply the best!! They are iconic and go so well with the dialog.
Just want to give you a shout out. I found this channel this morning and have been watching all day. Your videos are amazing! Youve won a new subscriber!
Perfect last video of this year - really looking forward to what you will be creating in 2024 :)
Merry christmas everyone! Thanks greendotaviation! We love you❤
Thanks so much! Merry Christmas 🎄
2:07 Lad really faced da bloody camera after he swat some flies in da sponsored match and said quote:
:□
just finished watching your all videos, and you uploaded new one, thankyou very much
Great video as always Green Dot!!
I really like this one as it's not the typical cut and dry decision making you always see. Personally... I think the Pilots made the right call for all the factors that were touched on. Simple adherence to Boeing's operating procedures would have worked wonders here.
Your videos are so good!!!! You can tell you do your research and put so much effort into all your videos. I've been binge watching them all ❤
1:45 that a350 of Japan Airlines was the biggest foreshadowing of the Hanida Airport Collision that happened earlier this year involving that plane and a Dash 8
Wonderful video, love the channel. I was wondering if you might consider making a video on Air France flight 4590, the Concorde crash in Paris in 2000. Either way I thoroughly enjoy the channel, keep up the good work
I'll be making this at some point, yes
@@GreenDotAviation Wonderful, I’ll be thoroughly looking forward to it, but to be fair I’m thoroughly looking forward to every new video you post on the channel. Keep it up
@@GreenDotAviationhappy chritmas to you and yours
@@GreenDotAviation Do MU5735 soon 🎉
I love your videos and I think they're expertly done. It would be cool if you add a pop that says the day and date of this incident around after the advertisement as i (and probably others) tend to forget the date that you mention in the beginning
Thank you, appreciate the feedback 🙏🏼
I’ve recommended this channel to a bunch of my friends. Keep it up!
Another awesome video. A great Christmas gift. Thank you. Hope you have a great holiday season. I'm looking forward to see what you have in store in 2024.
You should start showing explanations of GA incidents. This year we've had 168 fatal crashes in the U.S. ... surprisingly thats a record low number.
The Air Safety Institute has a very very good series of videos on GA accidents, available on RUclips
ruclips.net/video/8PBUVMCbmFQ/видео.html An example
Fire is definitely an "oh sh!t, we need to get on the ground ASAP" grade occurence for me
Just surges. Not really a fire. It's chucking unburned fuel out the back and igniting it outside. Usually not damaging if you don't keep pushing it, unlike a real fire
As always, such a great job. I remember when this happened and thinking it seemed so strange they would continue so early into the flight.
The problem would have been the need to dump so much fuel for landing. Stopping near the east coast of America may have been a better option.
all of your videos are awsome
And your narrating is second to none. Keep it up!
Yas! An xmas pressie in GDA!
Remember kids, just because you can, doesn't make it a good idea.😳
Hey Emmet, wanted to say this was just crazy video, the production quality is blockbuster level.
Wanted to ask can you also make a vid on the Tenerife disaster i know there’s ton of vids on it but your storytelling is just next level
Your videos are fascinating. Undoubtedly, the best aviation videos avaliable.
And I love your voice, diction and pitch.
That was a bit reckless 😮
Why?
This is personally my favourite avaition channel! Keep it up!
This video was a nice Christmas gift, GDA. Thanks!
Great job on this video! Thank you for the videos
I’m not familiar with the BA policies for flight continuation or operating the 747, but this does take the appearance of Risky Shift. The initial continuation is a good idea. Plenty of options Head over the US, and plenty of time for BA to organise themselves. Crossing the Atlantic, however, seems to be a bit too much in regard to confidence in the aircraft and pilots abilities. I suppose this wouldn’t be much of a story had they reached Heathrow without a fuel emergency.
BA Policies were historically considered the blue riband of air travel safety across the world - such was it BA’s enhanced safety was to provide a solution to an unsolved problem Boeing 737.
. No they were not.....
They fuel management procedures were not Boeing recommended standards.
The 747 400 never required a flight engineer nor was it upgraded and always had a CRT display. It was designed for 2 pilot operation. Other relief pilots were required for long hauls. Maybe you were confused with the 747 200. That was a 3 pilot operation but was phased out with the 400. Also, the captain wasn't trying to restart the engine by pushing up the throttle cause the engine was already running. It was at idle. It was shut down afterwards. The 400 passenger era may be coming to an end but it is still used as a cargo carrier.
That’s exactly what he said. He never mentioned that the 747-400 required a flight engineer.
He didn't say the plane was upgraded. He said the 747-400 variant itself was an upgrade over the previous models. A pretty obvious statement by itself, but he went on to specify the improvements that were relevant for the flight.
OK my misunderstanding. Sure sounded like it. But he did say the captain was trying to start the engine by advancing the throttle which was not correct because the engine was still running at idle. His knowledge of aircraft jet engines is a bit lacking. But maybe he'll learn but I bet he never piloted any aircraft. Also I wouldn't consider it had burst into flames after takeoff. It was only a compressor stall. Leaving the engine at idle for the flight would have had less drag and saved fuel.
@@tommon6591Only a compressor stall..
Your obviously not an aviator...
@@Erasethetruth Yes I've had compressor stalls while flying for a major airline. How about you.
thank you for the Christmas release, your videos always slap
u know its a good day, and christmas, when green dot aviation uploads!
I was with the Capitain's decision making on flying across the US, not across the big blue to London.
There are a lot of large airports in the USA, Chicago, Boston, JFK, etc. that he could have diverted to, gotten the passengers on flights that would take them to London, and the plane probably would have easily been fixed and back in the air soon.
Based on what he said, in the video, the engine needed to be replaced. So that wouldn’t be a quick fix. Assuming the plane landed at an airport that has the correct repair facilities. The engine would’ve had them been flown in. Otherwise, the plane would’ve had to fly empty to a location that could replace the engine.
If it needed to be replaced....why did they try to re-start it...???@@neilkurzman4907
Definitely! It is better decision not to continue to put people’s lives at danger. Crazy fanatic pilot continued to fly over the ocean.
Can you please make a video and cover Ukrainian flight 752?
The 4 year anniversary of downing of that flight is coming up next month and it would be nice to have a video covering the events that led to the downing of that flight.
I like your videos before they even start playing bro. And you’ve yet to disappoint. Keep it up!
All I really wanted for Christmas was another GDA video.
I needed a FIX bro. KEEP EM COMING - THIS THAT GOOD STUFF
you will never believe me but my father was the FO on this flight and my mother was a passenger, ignore my account surname I made it when I was young, love the videos
So you may think about to get your father in contact with @GreenDotAviation to make a video interview and let him tell the story from his point of view,
Then please pass on my regards - he most likely knows me, or at least knows of me. The guys did a great job, and it was only the confusion surrounding the fuel available towards the end of the flight that has turned this into the event it is. The political shenanigans from the FAA were just that, political - all about levelling the playing field for their own airlines who weren’t operating 4 engined jets to the U.K. at that time.
Too many armchair wannabes critiquing away who have no idea how airline ops truly work.
@@phil_nicholls 👍
You say, “returning to LAX would cost the airline $300,000” and I hear “returning to LAX would cost the airline ONLY $300,000”, that’s cheap compared to the possibility of having to pay the families of the plane went down.
You weren’t the pilot. The airplane was in no danger.
Landing back in LAX would have grounded the plane and everyone would’ve been stuck there. So the question was really fly east until you burnt off the extra fuel or continue one to the destination. Have they gotten the flight level they wanted. They probably would’ve made it there without anybody even noticing there was an issue.
@@neilkurzman4907 No danger? None?
Maybe this would be a good time to watch all the other videos on this channel and see how quickly things can go bad on flights at any time let alone the issues this plane had right away. People being inconvenienced and some lost money is the least of what everyone would want as opposed to what the cost would have been if the plane did crash. Ask anyone who have lost someone in a plane crash what they would do if they could go back. Better safe than sorry, and way better safe than dead. This story ended well but far too many haven’t. And I don’t have to be the pilot of this plane; or any other plane to take that stance and know it’s the better choice.
@@gregmeyer9595
Gee, maybe my hobby of watching airplane crash videos should start today or maybe 10 years ago something like that.
A 747 can fly on three engines.
It can fly on two engines.
I’m not sure why you think your amateur opinion is better than my amateur opinion. Since neither of us has ever flown a 747. They probably would’ve had to fly to East Coast to lighten up the plane enough to land.
And the final issue was landing with the minimum required amount of fuel. That didn’t mean they were anywhere near out of fuel. They almost didn’t have enough fuel to divert anymore.
There are other issue with the fuel had to do with the BA operating manual. If they use the Boeing one they wouldn’t have had any fuel issues during landing and wouldn’t have had the declare the second pan pan
@@gregmeyer9595you must have watched this to the end by now so you know that this aircraft arrived safely, there’s no point in pretending that it crashed.
lol, obviously I’m glad none of the other people on here are CEO’s or president of an airline, and hopefully a plane. Yes, I know this specific plane did not go down, yes I know capabilities of many aircraft including how many engines it can fly with. I’ve been a QA manager and director for 24 years so safety first is my main concern and having seen so many videos about “problems on planes going ignored and the ensuing loss of life” I would rather be inconvenienced (as I have before for this reason), rather than just see if we can make it. It’s not the first problem I worry about. It’s other 2 or 3 or more we don’t know about yet. Have a great holiday season. No more reason to continue responding.
It's loud enough having a car backfire, I can't imagine being on a plane and an engine is continuously doing just about the same sort of thing 😬
That segue into the sponsorship ad was diabolical!!🤣🤣Well done!
Well, actually I sometimes wonder why a plane with a problem like that usually dumps or burns its fuel and then returns to the place of departure...
When you are going to fly from the west coast of the US to Europe, it seems quite obvious that you can first burn your fuel flying over the US and then land in Boston or New York, fix the problem there, and continue.
Better for the environment, probably less delay, and not risky at all as you have lots of landing spots along the way. Why would it be better to go in a holding pattern over the ocean and waste your fuel??
Of course then deciding to cross the ocean was not a good idea.
Yes that makes sense. Lots of emergency options over the US and if they get to NY they are much closer
I’m pretty sure that a two engine plane can fly with one engine as long as it stays near airports.
Hey green Dot Aviation, You are The Best Of these kinds of channels I binge Watch you And your videos Are amazing.
I remember when Simply Flying made a short video on this and I wanted to know more about this flight. Thanks for this vid mate
This video is one of the nicer Christmas presents I've received this year! Fantastic presentation and production as always.
One of the more impressive features of four-engine jets like the 747 is their ability to stay airborne for long periods of time with a failed engine. I'm sad that they're being phased out, especially the 747 which just ended production. I still hope to fly on one someday...
The only reason this incident became ‘a thing’ was the crews confusion on how to extract the fuel from the number 2 main wing tank - which resulted in the diversion to Manchester. Had the flight continued to Heathrow successfully, this would never have been blown up out of all proportion as it has….
We all (as a fleet) went through remedial training in the next sim cycle to make sure our understanding of the fuel system was robust, such that if this situation occurred again we could assure ourselves of being able to access all fuel on board. In fact, actioning the Fuel Low Quantity checklist would have succeeded in them being able to use all the fuel onboard - but that EICAS never reared its head, as the tanks all still had plenty of fuel in them to complete the flight…
The whole point of operating a 4 engined aircraft is to be able to continue the flight in the event of a single failure, such as this. It’s exactly what the 747 was designed and certificated to do, with very little drama. Totally different to operating under ETOPS as we tend to do today.
The crew’s decision to continue the flight, given that no further problems existed once the engine was secured was exactly the right one, and was exactly what we were trained to do. As I say, the only issue that made this become ‘a thing’ was the perception that they may not be able to access all of the fuel on board. Given that they were in doubt over this, again, they made the correct decision to divert into Manchester (albeit based on an incorrect assumption), i.e. they made a safe decision.
It was this diversion, towards the end of the flight, that had the American authorities wagging their fingers - effectively saying ‘we told you it wasn’t safe to carry on!’ Which we all found quite bizarre, as it’s an American designed and built aircraft, and it was operated exactly as it was designed to be….
Of course, the finger wagging had nothing to do with the vast majority of American airlines only operating twins, (where they would absolutely have to return after such an event), and so getting their political knickers in a twist, as their own airlines wouldn’t be able to operate in such a way! 🙄
Obviously, an engine surge/compressor stall, is quite a spectacular thing, particularly at night - so to the uneducated in such matters, it may well come as a surprise for an aircraft to continue after such an event (a twin engined aircraft never would obviously). Much as i love our ATC colleagues, it only takes one ill-informed chap in the tower to comment negatively about the way an aircraft is being operated for the telegraph wires to start humming - even when there’s nothing actually amiss in the operation.
TL;DR pretty much a non event story, blown up because of the diversion towards the end of the flight.
Appreciate your insight! The Final Report is quite clear on this point too, re the safety of the flight.
@@GreenDotAviation there was definitely a political angle to the American side of things. With almost all US carriers operating under ETOPS from the USA to LHR, there was significant pressure applied to try and ‘level the playing field’; the fact that we, and Virgin at the time, were operating 4 engined aircraft gave us a perceived advantage that many US parties wanted to erase. This incident gave them some leverage in that regard. This was before the OpenSkies agreement with the EU (2007 I think).
Couldn’t agree more @phil_nicholls. An absolute non event.
@@phil_nichollsAbsolute rubbish.United had around 40 B747....Delta about 15...at this time.
Appalling airmanship and professionalism.
Some flight with 2 Pan Pan and 1 Mayday .
Not just for low fuel but also almost being on 2 engines in poor weather well short of the final destination.
Anyway who tries to relight an engine with such a failure.....obviously a Fuel Management Computer failure or worse.
What a great passenger experience.....
@@DrJonathanWittAbsolute Rubbish...
What sort of crew asks for the wrong level on the NAT system across the Atlantic??
Cannot transfer fuel ??
BA did not comply with Boeing recommended fuel management procedures....
A great passenger experience landing with almost 2 engines at an alternate..
can I just say, I love the "Mayday Air Crash Investigation" Series on NatGeo, and your's is exactly like that, just way better. and free. Thanks dude, ur awesome, keep up the great work.
Interesting story, very nicely told - thank you.
They should NEVER have gone oceanic with just the three engines and simply diverted to Boston or New York. Its fair that they should've carried on up to that point because of the large number of alternates available on the US mainland but cutting it fine like that over the Atlantic was absolutely not on.
Why not? They had 3 engines, that’s 1 more than most aircraft crossing it today
*They should have tried diverting the fuel to the other engines before reaching the Atlantic to see if there would be any problems in doing so.*
Pointless. Fuel distribution abilities vary with fuel load and pump pressure. You would be able to do things on the eastern US coast that you couldn't do half way across the Atlantic.
For example, the Override (higher output) pumps in the inboard main (wing) tanks can only pump fuel out of these tanks down to 4.5~5.0 tonnes, then the regular boost pumps in the inboard and outboard tanks would have to be used. With the all the crossfeed valves open, the regular boost pumps in all 4 main tanks would fight each other. If one pump has a higher pressure than another, that pump will stop pumping fuel (or pump less fuel).
Pump output pressure varies due to a number of factors (fuel level, pump age, height of one pump compared to another, etc). To get fuel out of that problem tank, you might have to switch off all the pumps in the other tanks. The crew are not going to do that. They would just let the aircraft sort itself out.... When the other tanks ran out of fuel or low on fuel, the problem tank would automatically start feeding the engines.
Thank you!! Merry Christmas!!
Thanks for the Christmas post, made my evening.
Hero to zero in one flight. The Captain used his discretion, and it didn't quite work out.
I have a friend who flies 747s, I'll ask him what he thinks.
There was general consensus to continue from all involved, so it was deemed acceptable by all, especially those who would answer to a higher authority come the investigation. Even now, on Boeing aircraft, the checklist does not advise the pilots to land at nearest suitable, even for two engine aircraft.
@@EdOeunaMaybe not the "nearest" but in this case a suitable east coast tarmac before bringing it out over the Atlantic. These pilots should have lost their jobs. That was just idiotic...and exactly why the FAA found as it did.
@@aright2lucidity - absolutely. I’d also suggest a lot of “risky shift” going on here or at least a steep cockpit gradient whereby everyone agrees with the Captain.
@@EdOeunaBut the law does......
@@Erasethetruth - the law does what? My checklist for engine limit/surge/stall does not mention “land at the nearest suitable airport” for an engine that is still running but at reduced thrust. That’s a Boeing manual, agreed by FAA/ICAO etc, ie the law.
Excellent video which demonstrates how good British pilots are. I am applauding to them. Very professional.
So professional....
Landing short of their destination almost on 2 engines in poor weather in a Mayday Fuel situation.
class as always. keep it up mate!
Christmas present! Thank you